@mighty carbon very interesting to see the Microsoft headsets already be at 199
#virtual-reality
glossy agate
^Just looked on the microsoft store and some are even getting sold out with the discount. Should bring in a bigger player base for next year hopefully.
full junco
@pale burrow if you count all the individual things together, do you get to anything like 20?
base pass 4 ms, PP 4 ms, and some smaller stuff
well, you definitely can disable the light shaft bloom, you have to
and screen space reflections
and some other PP stuff
pale burrow
i cleaned up the ssr from the last time we profiled
looks like this
so ssr is no big worry anymore
somethign is very wron with my sscene... im not using any specific pp settings.... why is usage so high?
heres it opened up
full junco
don't always open that base pass up, it doesnt say anything interesting
just eats space and makes it hard to read
youre just on a way too high res
2000x2384 per eye is too much for that scene on your GPU
full junco
you are on some quite high screen percentage
don't know the console commands for that in newer versions
@glossy agate I wish they would ship to germany 😄
but they don't, and in the german microsoft store its still $530
pale burrow
that was it @full junco thanks for the fix!!!
full junco
ha, great 😄
pale burrow
not sure what is happening tbh... alot of my setting keep getting overriden
sturdy coral
@full junco yeah $199 on those already is pretty awesome (or bad if they are clearing stock and canceling production lol)
already out of stock =/, the lenovo one is still $199 though
it's tempting to grab one
sturdy coral
yeah I'm going to grab it.. trying to decide between it and the HP
I've heard the HP is really comfortable
but all I want is the lightest weight one possible
both flip up which is nice for dev
full junco
@sturdy coral wanna buy two and send me one? haha 😄
sturdy coral
@full junco Picked up the lenovo. Forgot to get yours 😖
full junco
@sturdy coral too bad! well, they will likely soon be discounted in germany too
sturdy coral
yeah, since they just launched I didn't think we would see any discount for christmas, it is pretty awesome that they did it
full junco
just like the german journalist predicted 😄 I mentioned what he said on launch of the headsets
sturdy coral
$200 with the controllers is pretty insane.. PCs just need to get cheaper now
glossy agate
So I think the build is failing due to namespace failure. "error CS0101" in my full body plugin. Anyone know of an easy way to fix it? Log is attached.
tired tree
still surprising that it dropped that fast
and that they didn't choose to do it for cyber monday
glossy agate
Now its like the same price as that star wars AR thing, but way better
sturdy coral
@glossy agate it's saying 'FullBodyIKPluginEditor' was defined twice in the same namespace, can you post that build.cs?
@tired tree I'm not sure Valve is getting the price down fast enough to be competitive with this stuff, lighthouse 2.0 is $60 per base station in bulk to implementors which with two is over half the retail price of these on sale
though of course you'll get much better hand tracking with lighthouse
tired tree
60 bulk to manufacturers? that seems way too much
glossy agate
@sturdy coral here it is
sturdy coral
@tired tree hmm yeah that's in quantities of 45: http://steamcommunity.com/games/steamvrtracking/announcements/detail/1462966590052827478
maybe thats more the price targeted at people that are doing testing
tired tree
yeah i would assume
@glossy agate you didn't install BIK at the engine level did you?
glossy agate
No. Project level
full junco
@sturdy coral yeah, at $120 for 2 lighthouses it's pretty impossible for valve to compete
sturdy coral
MS just needs to release a standalone camera that you plug into the PC or that communcates wirelessly that tracks your hands when they are behind your head
sturdy coral
yeah but it seems like it would just need to communicate features in the environment to get a shared lock with the HMD
then only transmit the location/orientation data
one camera on the controller might not be enough
it would possibly get blacked by the other hand
sly elk
i really like the idea of an easy to set up $200 headset. that doesnt include motion controllers, does it?
sturdy coral
but if you could also mix in the same LEDs and HMD's camera maybe not
@sly elk it does
that's what is crazy about it
sly elk
thats awesome
that opens up the audience for all of us. Its much easier pitch telling someone they need 400+ in hardware and they need to mount stuff on their walls
sturdy coral
definitely worth picking one up, especially after we saw that mention of it working with xbox in the future in one of the git commits
sly elk
*than telling someone
full junco
@sly elk they still need a $1000+ PC
sly elk
I thought MS decided not to do xbox support?
sturdy coral
my guess is it will only work with the one x
full junco
yeah that would be good
sly elk
i haven't worked on any xbox game with this iteration. Whats the compute power like compared to PS4?
full junco
the xbox one x has a significantly better gpu than the ps4 pro
the xbox one without x is worse than the ps4 without pro
so xbox one without x really couldn't do good VR
sturdy coral
yeah unless they maybe let it run at 75hz or something
full junco
@sturdy coral just testing discord stuff, could you please tag me once? 😄
sturdy coral
@full junco
granite jacinth
oh
No wonder Rifts w/ Touch are $400
They don't include xbox controller or that other controller
or that rockband thingie
btw, PSVR for $200 on dell
fresh laurel
oh nice
pale burrow
haptic help! haptics only working on xbox controller, not vr controllers... and reason?
wicked oak
Scorpio would be a great VR machine, with the GPU it has
base xbox would not be able to do anything
it cant even do 1080p at 30 fps
look at all games being 700p or similar
sturdy coral
@full junco lol no, but that's the same area of code I was just working on to fix this thing
I'll test his PR out
I think they fixed it in master too, building that to test
@full junco you should definitely look at master, the temporal super sampling thing looks really cool
and their dynamic resolution algorithm has a lot of interesting stuff for rejecting outlier frames and stuff
sturdy coral
I need to browse pull requests more.. I ran into this exact issue the other day: https://github.com/EpicGames/UnrealEngine/pull/4283
(playercontroller ticks when you open it in blueprint editor and crashes if you are doing anything with the game instance, world, etc.)
full junco
@sturdy coral oh, I had such an issue like 2.5 years ago 😄
and damn, I don't want to have a reason to update my engine
wicked oak
@full junco you could have a look at the new resolution scaling TAA code
but is such a shame commits are superhuge so you cant just follow the specific features...
full junco
@wicked oak the amount of renderer changes between 4.15 and 4.19 are way too huge by now
wicked oak
i still have DWVR on 4.16
i wont update it unless i can port it to xbox and i need the latest version XD
full junco
well your game also is quite fine as it is
I plan to work on my game for a long time, so I will definitely update it at some point
in 4.15 not even BP nativization worked in a good way
and stuff like DF shadows were made twice as fast in 4.16
would be stupid if I would never get all the improvements
but I'll have to take a clean engine and cherry pick every single one of my >100 changes
and then fix all the conflicts that gives
sturdy coral
@full junco with the superresolution stuff you can run at like half screen percentage in 2D but get some ghosting
// Conclusions:
// Good antighosting at sp=50%.
// Excellent antighosting at sp=83%.
// Excellent anti aliasing at sp=50% and 83%.
// Pixel shader animation are OK
//
// Room for improvement.
#define AA_UPSAMPLE_CLAMPING_METHOD 3```I tried it out it looks really good in the viewport, slight win in VR
full junco
so way more usable in 2d than in VR?
sturdy coral
I think just because the view stays still a lot more
I haven't tested it much moving around in 2d
it says it has ghosting issues until around 83% screen percentage
full junco
and it depends on TAA, right? so with forward+MSAA you can't use it?
sturdy coral
right
full junco
can you configure it on some way?
sturdy coral
all I've figured out is
full junco
like with the TAA current frame weight? do those TAA settings affect it?
sturdy coral
you set vr.pixeldensity 1.2 or so so the main buffer is bigger than the "ideal" buffer for VR
then set r.temporalaaupsampling to 1 to turn it on
then r.screenpercentage to lower the resolution you render at and it gets upsampled to the higher thing you set with pixeldensity
when you get too extreme with it it flickers even on static stuff, the old temporal filter was all at the subpixel and only had to searched neighboring pixels for change in a little cross hatch pattern
this one has to test against more surrounding pixels beyond the immediate neighbors and that seems to be the main thing they are tuning
would probably benefit from that ps4 pro id buffer stuff we were discussing
full junco
@sturdy coral interesting
and how expensive is it?
so much much time is spent on the TAA upsampling?
sturdy coral
sturdy coral
that was upscaling to 1.3PD
PD is a multiplier on recommended screen size
which is already 1.33X the native screen res on rift
total it would be like running at r.screenpercentage 176
in the old terms
what I had it was vr.pixeldensity 1.3, r.screenpercentage 70
full junco
well, but an additional 1.7 ms is not that much faster than adding 30% more real pixels?
sturdy coral
@full junco well it is in both axises
it puts the resolution it is going from and to in the profiler text
Out[3]: 0.49027777777777776```so about 2x the pixels for a 1.7ms cost
I'm going to have to test it on a real scene with smooth locomotion and stuff to see how low you can take the screen percentage comfortably
I don't think it adds more cost to the TAA shader to go lower, but it might if it widens its neighborhood search or something
full junco
ok
does it actually make sense to make it do 2x the pixels?
in VR?
how does it scale regarding performance, so if you only go for 1.3x the pixels is it significantly less than 0.8 ms per eye?
sturdy coral
it is a good improvement in what I was looking at, but it was just the vr template startup map
just looking at the text in it
wicked oak
so you testing Master branch @sturdy coral ?
sturdy coral
@wicked oak yeah, I built it to see if it fixed this rift via steamvr issue
wicked oak
sweet
sturdy coral
it seems to
sturdy coral
@wicked oak auto res is different
full junco
@wicked oak and where do they say that?
sturdy coral
I haven't tested that
sturdy coral
so far I think so
wicked oak
becouse im going to use it for the Aquila project in ps4
full junco
its not about TAA, its about upsampling I think?
sturdy coral
I need to test it on some real scenes
full junco
the AA is same like always?
wicked oak
PS4 doesnt support msaa well (actualling there is msaa stuff in Master), but i use Forwrad +TAA
sturdy coral
it is "TAA upsampling"
instead of jittering the camera a half pixel
it is jittering it all over the place
wicked oak
and it looks ok in vr?
full junco
@sturdy coral hm wait, does it "replace" the regular TAA? I thought its an additional thing?
sturdy coral
at 50% it is jittering a whole pixel, and then somehow it is sparsely sampling the results I guess
so that it doesn't blur over everything
it is just an option on normal TAA
I think the dynamic res stuff is related
full junco
so you don't have any other TAA time in the profiler apart from the 0.8 ms per eye? no normal TAA time?
sturdy coral
in that in 2d they are basically going to have the final output buffer always screen res
wicked oak
seems to definitely be for Switch
sturdy coral
and dynamically scale the intermediate one
sturdy coral
it will probably work really well with that type of scaling in VR once they implement it
should make the brief resolution changes less noticable
wicked oak
very interesting
sturdy coral
I need to put out a demo on reddit to capitalize on all the backlash about Fallout's Temporal AA 😛
wicked oak
on ps4 i use Forward + TAA
it actually works super well
becouse the ps4 runs hella fast in forward
on my current prototype forward gives me 4 ms back
normally the ps4 has some bandwith limitations, so the GBuffer uses far too many resources
full junco
@sturdy coral once they implement what?
sturdy coral
@full junco the dynamic res part
they have it implemented in 2d but one commit message said it wasn't implemented in vr
full junco
ah
sturdy coral
but there are a lot of commits afterwards
wicked oak
dynamic res is pretty much needed for VR. @full junco you definitely know about that XD
sturdy coral
yeah but the combination of the two with this thing is going to be a lot better I think
full junco
yeah, I just thought it would already work in VR @wicked oak
sturdy coral
text won't get blurry if it briefly drops and picks back up
wicked oak
seems i wont be using phyre engine or unity lol
this stuff is hella sexy for my needs
sturdy coral
as long as your head is pretty stable and the scene isn't moving it basically jut builds a much higher resolution view
full junco
yeah thats very good
sturdy coral
as you move and stuff I'm sure there will be limitations
foliage and stuff who knows
wicked oak
current TAA has some serious ghosting on my enemies
sturdy coral
but basically lots of new stuff to tune
wicked oak
i need to tweak it a bit to not have them ghost that much
full junco
@sturdy coral can you show me a screenshot of the full PP stuff in the gpu profiler with the upsampling enabled?
sturdy coral
@full junco nope, I'm back building 4.18 now to test that pull request
sturdy coral
just that one I think
full junco
hm, then the 0.8 ms is actually really not bad
normal TAA is also like 0.5 ms per eye at least
wicked oak
normal TAA is 0.5 per eye
bit more on ps4 cus its trash gpu
so this high end taa being 0.8 seems good
is it per-eye, or in general @sturdy coral ?
full junco
its 0.8 per eye
wicked oak
becouse if its 1 ms per-eye, 2 ms total for the TAA is kind of ridiculous
welp
thats one fifth of my budget
sturdy coral
@wicked oak yeah that was upsampling to something really high though
full junco
2 ms is just twice of 1 ms
and 2 ms is 1 ms more than 1 ms
I got to that conclusion without a calculator
wicked oak
im targetting 120 fps on ps4pro, at full res on the psvr
sturdy coral
equiv to what would have in the past been r.screenpercentage 176
wicked oak
ill definitely need the automatic resolution stuff
sturdy coral
I'm on a 980ti
wicked oak
so res drops when there are tons of FX and explosions around
full junco
@sturdy coral ah, so then it might be even quicker on a 1080
sturdy coral
ah I had it overclocked though
full junco
ah
sturdy coral
had it overclocked from oculus medium
full junco
no, thats normal
I also always have a billion of them opened
I still have tabs from 4 months ago opened
sturdy coral
yeah just don't leave them open on shadertoy
sturdy coral
same guy as other PR, windows guys know their windows: https://github.com/EpicGames/UnrealEngine/pull/4282
full junco
ha, well, that guy is doing PRs about a lot of stuff
I see his name all the time
reminds me of this: https://twitter.com/mrdougal/status/442929113733410816
dusky moon
Any1 knows about Viveport's revenue stream compared to other platforms like steam and oculus ?!
wish there was steamspy for that as well
dusky moon
@wicked oak oops! I thought maybe the chinese market could be as equal as at least oculus store
granite jacinth
If you want the chinese market, contact Tencent
glossy agate
Last I looked it was 30% on Viveport, but they had a winter promotion where devs got 100% for a bit. For me though 100% of 0 doesn't help
Its bloatware, and I deleted it off my computer. Don't personally know of anyone using it as their main sales platform
full junco
100% of 0? wow 😄
glossy agate
Yeah I only promoted the steam link haha
And I can’t write Chinese to reach the other market. Vive port did a free translation of the description though.
pearl tangle
they have 0% cut for the remainder of the year I think. Which started a few months back. Other than that I think they sit at 30% same as steam
raven halo
seems like someone at Oculus has been testing the multires feature with Daedalus! I'm happy! 😄
wicked oak
doesnt seem to have the improvements the pc version of multires has
but i guess thats becouse its less agressive
still, free perf!
mental chasm
Hmm
Has anyone here experimented a lot with asymmetrical setups?
like desktop/VR in local play I mean
like Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes
Is there any way to make UE run both a desktop viewport and a VR set at the same time? Looking around in the engine it doesn't really seem like an option
the preferred way to do it seems to be by launching multiple clients and a network game
but has anyone here had any success using an alternate path?
wicked oak
@mental chasm you can use render to texture with a camera, and put that texture as the screen
it IS possible to do asimetrical stuff in unreal, perfectly possible
its just a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE performance drop
mental chasm
hehe, at that point it might be easier just to do the network solution, although it is an intreaguing solution for sure
tired tree
nah its pretty easy now to mirror to the screen
its just the perf drop and difficulty of menus that are the problems
mental chasm
hmm, well it's not about the hardware mirror
but coop using desktop as a different player viewport 😃
but the points are still valid I suppose
tired tree
you can do it with a camera and by seperating keyboard / mouse input to player 2
but like I said, it doesn't use a seperate viewport, so you can't just add widgets
they have it on their todo list to make mirroring be able to be an entirely seperate viewport
sturdy coral
@raven halo nice. I wonder why it doesn't help much with bandwidth limited stuff? Maybe it still reading textures at the mip level they would be at without it?
wicked oak
@muchcharles#2724 most likely, becouse it if it tried to sample one lower mipmap, it could cause extra artifacts
given they are doing this at the driver level, so it works backwards compat, its probably the absolute safest implementation you can do
sly elk
I'
i'm curious if the way im doing multi turn rotations is the best way: https://i.imgur.com/6NprQwS.png
wicked oak
some lightbake shanengigans
outside of ue4
im baking the procedural geometry in houdini and importing the textures, then building a mat
i blame ue4 for not letting me lightmap from the editor into a random object
those are light bake, cavity, AO
all generated on any object with 1 click 😃
sly elk
what are you baking in?
oh
houdini
I co-own handplane. You can bake from command line, might be useful for you
wicked oak
i can bake from comandline with houdini too
eventually ill have a "BAKE ALL" button
right now my bake button is a single button in the editor, that bakes the current object
ok now floor is also lightmap-d
wicked oak
and now i know how the fuck to use the renderer
seems to be kind of noise. but given the way the islands are done, i might be able to run a blur filter on it
glossy agate
May just be the map sizes if its pixelated AO. There is no actual lightmass bake right?
wicked oak
no
its pixellated becouse this is fully raytraced
its not like lightmass wich uses photon mapping
its an actuall full movie style raytracing
that just bakes the colors into the pixels
then i modulate it to be browner with the material
and well, not be brown on the floor
this is how my bake looks right nwo
the black zones are becouse they are on the other side (the wall has outside side)
glossy agate
Ah got it. Similar to V-ray and Keyshot then where it has a little static look to it
eager pine
i guess this is the vr place? xD
glossy agate
Nah its all Hentai here man
chilly thicket
Just wondering, could anyone direct me to a good place for learning about how to make a bow for VR?
The only real thing I can seem to find is the Live Training on making it, which isn't very helpful.
real needle
@chilly thicket Is it not? I think they provided a project as well
chilly thicket
Yeah, I found that project, I'm sitll having a bit of trouble grasping how it works though.
sturdy coral
@chilly thicket you can download the VR funhouse source too
eager pine
Okay, tried making my own character for the vr, when I start it's like 1/3 to high or low for the height, and i can't make the motion controllers track
sly elk
I have been dealing with system hangs about 1-2 times a day and im going to reinstall windows today to deal with it. Since im already doing a thorough back up, how many people here are on win10 for VR dev? I'm thinking now is a good time to switch to win10
eager pine
@sly elk i am
but having problem with ue4 and vr really
cant seem to get the template right
and the motion controllers dont update location
so weird
why is this happening
this is the htc vive on the floor but its aboce the floor
raven halo
eager pine
Yes that works, but i want to setup my own character, now i get the head to work, but the restriction area and head is over the ground when the headset is on ground, and the character vr spawns the controllers but they arent tracked to current position, they are stuck to the ground
eager pine
Im using the vr expansion plugin character vr
granite jacinth
Top Co-op VR games?
tired tree
@eager pine did you offset a scene component like in the Epic tutorial? you don't want to do that with my character
sturdy coral
got that mixed reality headset in, I like it so far, it is definitely lighter weight
it is clearer in the center than vive or rift, but blurrier on the edges
real needle
@sturdy coral didn't you discover the same issue w steamVR and windows Mr, as with Oculus and steamVR?
Other users reported the same problem
sturdy coral
@real needle I haven't tested it yet, it will be interesting to see if it has the same aspect ratio mismatch thing as rift
or if I was wrong about that being the reason
4.19/master seems to fix things partly by storing the coordinates from steam for the ideal buffer size in a rect though which is similar to the fix I implemented and it seems to work fine with Rift
uneven moon
I'm trying to get my flashlight to reach further
I can really only see things that are somewhat close to me with it
It's a movable light, no shadows, attenuation radius is set to high (50k)
Intensity of 20,000
Am I missing something?
p.s. I have exp fog in my level
real needle
@uneven moon There's a max distance to attenuation. Just place a spotlight in the scene and see if its reaching it's max attenuation limit
eager pine
@tired tree no, i only made a vr character, changed no default values really
spiral zephyr
arcore on 4.18.2 if someone missed it: https://blog.google/products/google-vr/arcore-developer-preview-2/
eager pine
really weird @tired tree i just downloaded 18.2, started a whole new project, migrated your plugin, placed the vr character, and still above ground even tough the headset is on the ground and the standing height is like 1/2 to high
it seems as it crashes with the vapsule component?
tired tree
@eager pine bad room calibration can cause a vertical offset, but also characters float a couple of millimeters above the ground anyway]
1/2 inch is more likely to be stale room calibration though
print strings will also always appear far left, that is how their print strings show in VR, they don't account for the HMD eyes with them
eager pine
But the room calibration is good, its perfect anywhere else and! With the standard template from ue4 vr, works perfectly on the ground, but with the vr expansion its above ground
Yes thr print strings i agree, just had them in the middle before like in 4.16
Its just weird as i see other youtubers have their character on the ground with the vr expansion
sturdy coral
@eager pine adjust const float UCharacterMovementComponent::MIN_FLOOR_DIST = 1.9f; const float UCharacterMovementComponent::MAX_FLOOR_DIST = 2.4f; in Engine/Source/Runtime/Engine/Private/Components/CharacterMovementComponent.cpp
but they are probably there for a reason, depenetration efficiency, etc.
eager pine
But will this affect the vr expansion character vr?
sturdy coral
@eager pine it should, test and see
eager pine
But why is the vr expansion character above ground, but not the normal template vr from epic?
tired tree
because the normal template character doesn't use a movement component
and yes, its for depenetration, it can be adjusted but by how much before you start getting things like falling through the floor on peaks I don't know for sure
you can move the NetSmoother component down a little bit on the character to adjust
that min floor distance of 1.9 down on Z would bring it to 0-0.5 units from the floor
come to think fo it, i should probably do that by default
eager pine
wait, so the offset is now default on the download plugin?
😃
@tired tree
Forgot to tag sorry
tired tree
the repository yes
eager pine
Thanks morden! Ill check it out!
but im still long off the floor
do i have to replace the character? make a new one?
thats the offsett right
accordingly its off by -95 @tired tree
tired tree
1.9
if yours is off by 96, then you are adding an offset
you aren't using the BASEcharacter are you? had someone do that once
need to flag that as not blueprintable
need to use the VRCharacter
you can check out how it is set up in the template project
to save some time
off by 96 is caused by using epics pawn method
my plugin char doesn't require the -96 offset on the root
so you have something setup wrong
eager pine
Im using the vrcharacter, blank template, using vr expansion plugin
O hold on
Not the base character?
Not that one?
tired tree
PM me further so we don't spam here, but yeah, not VRBaseCharacter, you want VRCharacter as the parent
wicked oak
@eager pine
this small application lets you do easy screenshots to post on places
its called snipping tool
iron talon
ive started following that climbing tutorial, are there any major pros and cons to using that vs somehow migrating the openvr plugin to a new project?
eager pine
Use lightshot @wicked oak much better
wicked birch
@tired tree Which build would you recommend if I'm on 4.18.2?
abstract panther
Any recommendation what VR to buy if you gonna get into VR game dev in unreal ?
glossy agate
@abstract panther Either of the main 2 will work fine
eager pine
@iron talon what do you mean?
is there a way to check if the player in vr is already in climbing mode?
abstract panther
@glossy agate Thanks!
tired tree
@wicked birch 4.18.2 is what i would recommend
wicked birch
Just to be certain, is that the one you posted on the forum thread?
tired tree
the plugin itself is from 4.12 - 4.18 different builds, the template is always on latest so 4.18.2 currently
wicked birch
Alright, yeah I figured the template was on the latest UE4 build
Just wasn't sure if I could download the latest build version and compile it myself
But I think you had some 4.19 stuff going on
tired tree
nah, i don't start porting to a new version (usually) until the first preview is out, they tend to revert commits sometimes
its best to not use the pre-compiled binaries, they are there for people that need them for w/e reason
wicked birch
Ah yes I recall you saying that to me before.
I'll just grab your master branch and build that
glossy flame
Anyone know of a good way to rotate VR player character yaw standard r-analog style, like how it's done in Alien Isolation? It works pretty good there. I've spent a bit of time trying to see how it's done, but I get strange results trying to rotate the Actor, or using Rotate VR character. most of the threads I could find on the topic were using the first version of the Epic VR template and they don't seem to apply to contemporary VR player character setups.
tired tree
You have to offset by the HMD location as a pivot
or, since you are using my plugin, you can use the new AddRotationOffsetVR node and rotate by the delatime * speed
glossy flame
Thanks a lot, MordenTral!
full junco
last dev-rendering merge was surprisingly boring
novel tree
@eager pine @wicked oak for screenshots there is only one good app and that is ShareX, try it, powerful stuff :3
balmy surge
Has anyone done anything with movement with Leapmotion in VR
tired tree
@full junco well considering how much they have been packing into 4.19 so far....might be good to slow down and stabalize?
wicked oak
if the dynamic res and new TAA make it for the next update it will be great
becouse i need it lol
im going to target 90 fps on base ps4 and 120 on pro. So im going to need as much performance as i can get
a high speed shooter like what im going to do will double-image a lot with the 60 fps to 120 thing
went to have a look at the commits
WTF is the Ocean project?
the next Epic game?
granite jacinth
Could be
BossKey dude left for secret project
Or could just be a codename for an existing project
tired tree
mmm, they are updating the launcher today
chilly thicket
Random simple question.
I have a VR Pawn blueprint, and I'm trying to get the forward vector of a mesh that's part of it, from another actor blueprint.
I'm trying to cast, but I can't figure out why it isn't working.
granite jacinth
Doesnt' seem like a VR question
Seems like a #blueprint newb question
But, you should read what I've been telling the other guy in there
Basically watch that video about Blueprint Communcation
wicked oak
tfw you are debugging shit on materials and do some wrong shit yet you create art
lol
tired tree
What is this? VBlanco games don't have colors!
spiral zephyr
these are def my colors
granite jacinth
@wicked oak You definitely want to make peopel sick
wicked oak
plug this into emmisive
granite jacinth
My brain is already saying, no
But I am on the extreme end of mot/sim-sickness folk
So yeah, if anyone wants me to playtest their game, I am definitely the best subject around
wicked oak
the actual material is this
im trying to get a look i like while bypassing unreal shaders completely
this is just plugged into emmisive, its on an "unlit" material
(the floor isnt,yet)
the blue light is lightmap
tired tree
why are you doing fauceted normals
tired tree
ddx, ddy isn't the fastest thing ever
granite jacinth
what is ddx,y anyway
tired tree
derivatives
granite jacinth
They give the approximate screenspace derivative of the value you request. The most common use is to compute your own mipmap level, which can be passed into the texture sample node.
shader nonsense
tired tree
they are very useful
wicked oak
arent they calculated by dedicated hardware, and on a primitive basis?
granite jacinth
what's a screenspace derivative?
tired tree
crossing them gets a worldspace normal
granite jacinth
Screen-space partial derivatives are awesome. They let you compute the approximate partial derivative along x and y for any value, which comes in handy in many different situations. ... In GLSL, the partial derivative is dFdx(value) for x and dFdy(value) for y.
wicked oak
i was going to use them on everything i wanted to be faceted
granite jacinth
More freaking nonsense
wicked oak
before actually doing the faceting myself
as normal faceting will duplicate the vertices
and increase the vertex shader cost due to that
granite jacinth
I guess I should read into that one day (never)
tired tree
depends on how much you are outlining
that would be cheaper if you are outlining a lot
but you can turn off custom depth generally if you aren't
and use a mesh mirror or material outline like RR uses
wicked oak
material outline is the best pretty much allways
but of course, double triangles
so it only really works for specific objects
postprocess outline is kind of absolute garbage, doesnt work very well (and its expensive). but it doesnt double triangles/drawcalls
granite jacinth
meh, only using it every once in awhile and I do turn it off
real needle
I have a huge problem with pp outlines and my scope. Anything that doesn't do depth test is a problem with the second perspective from the scope
I tried disabling the "no depth test" objects in the scope, but seeing it outside of scope and not inside is very confusing
nimble junco
hey guys, is there a way to register the motion controllers from vive? i need a way to ask them if they are being turned on/off or if they are being tracked/static
i just found this node
but that doesnt really work, or i dontcorrectly understand how it works
mighty carbon
wicked oak
i have the lower res version of that one
it has been useful for prototypes
that one looks good
jesus christ is a fucking huge pack
with varied biomes
mighty carbon
yeah
granite jacinth
https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/significant-changes-coming-to-vr-resolution-settings-in-4-19
Interesting
With all the spam that comes into this channel
I am super surprised no one's linked this here yet
tired tree
finally
wicked oak
finally indeed
they already had it for oculus
vr.oculus.pd
much better to be like that, makes it easy
now i can have like base ps4 on pd 1, and ps4pro on 1.2
or some other stuff like that
sturdy coral
@real needle ^
Also fixes the Oculus and windows MR via steam vr issues we are seeing on 4.18
For example, if you wanted to reduce the number of pixels to render of your VR project by about 20% you would set vr.PixelDensity=1-0.2. If you wanted to increase the number of pixels to render of your VR project by about 20%, you would input vr.PixelDensity=1+0.2. that's ... wrong, total needs to be sqrted...
sturdy coral
@real needle I put up a pull request here for the Oculus/WindowsMR SteamVR issues: https://github.com/EpicGames/UnrealEngine/pull/4356
real needle
So when is the adaptive resolution implemented? I'm assuming the pixel density work is one of the things they wanted to do before to generalize it
wicked oak
most likely for 4.20
becouse its on the blazing new "master" branch, they probably already locked the 4.19 branch?
if its included for 4.19 ill be super happy
this is so next level man
too bad its exclusive to ps4
its like oculus medium but on steroids
sturdy coral
@real needle It is already in master for non-vr, the initial commit of it didn't have vr support but later ones might have
Yeah Dreams looks really great
It is a shame it is stuck as a PS4 exclusive, they could have had a shot at creating the metaverse
I will definitely pick up psvr for it, it isn't launching with vr support though but it is supposed to be coming in 2018
wicked oak
Dreams on PC for VR PC controllers could be a killer app for any artist
oculus medium is neat but this is on a whole other level
it lets you do actual "concept" art and kitbash pieces randomly in 3d really well
raven halo
I think usually that's been the case yeah
sturdy coral
medium has one big advantage that probably won't be possible with Dreams' approach
the move tool
but dreams doesn't suffer from the same kind of voxel resolution limitations as medium
it definitely seems better for kit bashing, which is where VR seems to have the biggest advantage over traditional sculpting
just positioning and orienting things is really intuitive and fast
and then dreams has a whole bunch of other stuff, a whole game engine and audio, and just way better look overall
Dreams keeps things as an edit list of signed distance field primitives and can blend them together nices, and then it continuously generates splats for it. medium keeps everything all in one signed distance field grid per layer and continuously turns it into a mesh, so it can't soft-blend primitives together in the same way and it runs into performance problems pretty quick
but it uses a geometry shader on its mesh representation to implement the move tool, and then reconverts the result to the SDF grid, which is really really nice
tired tree
oh, so 4.19 should be due out any time now then
sage gulch
yeah that seemed to work nicely without a headset.. cute interface
If I make a test level and run it for a while, eventually I start getting duplicated hand meshes that are just barely offset from the initial hand meshes, as well as a copy that is stuck at the player spawn but still responds to translation and rotation of the motion controller
anyone else seen this? known issue or fix? is this possibly related to my level being 'persistant' and if so how can I resolve this?
thanks
I don't really see how persistant would be the problem because it doesn't crop up until I've been using the level for a while and adding things into it.. making a new map and the problem is gone, doesn't seem like it's in the character necessarily,.. when the player dies it's still a bit messy, but if persistant was the issue, it seems like it should have a duplicated mesh after the first time I test the map
tired tree
you are spawning extra pawns
sage gulch
yeah, like crazy
the character has a whole bunch nested, and the MotionControllerPawn BP is one of them
it's placed as a child actor in the component tree
then there are a bunch of other, relatively unrelated child actors, as well
that's not a bad practice, is it?
sturdy coral
@tired tree there's a 4.19 branch now
weary flame
Hi guys....I want to try the Nvidia VRWorks branch to use all the very promising features (like the VR SLI) but all I find of it is this page
https://developer.nvidia.com/vrworks
I can't find any deeper info, do u know if there is a guide that explains better the usage?
I already compiled the branch and opened my project with it. The only thing I find about to enable my features are some checkboxes in the project settings.
I enabled them but it doesn't seem to do big changes in performances.
Anybody who already used that branch knows something more?
Thanks
wicked oak
there are some console commands
there are no documentation, gotta find them in the source XD
quartz acorn
Hello guys
We are working on a UE4 Vive project and want to use Depth of Image to render Target, but facing issues for same
Here is some more details of what we working, if anyone can take a look and help us finding the issue, that will be nice
tired tree
@sage gulch well its why you are seeing multiple controllers, you have multiple pawns not getting destroyed on your map....
sage gulch
shouldn't I see it after the first time I run a map then?
tired tree
also...why are you nesting multiple pawns (I could see 1 inside a character)
and child actors are still bug ridden
sage gulch
is it a bad practice? I have independant pawn sensing on some, for example
so they can each acquire targets.. and well this is third person and first person simultaneously
it all works reasonalby well until I try and do something with the motion controllers but I'm a bit of a n00b
tired tree
should be able to run both third and first with a single pawn is the thing....
sounds like one big ball of yarn and overly complicated
sage gulch
yeah I saw an example that made the hands inside the pawn, but the pack that comes with the engine chooses to spawn them and attach them , so.. I dunno
yeah it is getting there 😉
you can attach 16-Bits.. to your head
point and shoot with extreme vengence :p
I think I could possibly lower the number of sensors in a few places
there's like... at least 3 dozen pawns
heh
tired tree
what......
sage gulch
fake it till ya make it, make it till ya break it, roll on kickstarter
suffice it to say I've rolled back from 4.18
it's mostly a bunch of attached turrets basically, plus a couple characters that can swap a few interaction modes
trail shale
If I see the steam VR splash screen when I am using level streaming, am I doing something wrong? I've tried not blocking on load but it still throws you the steam VR and breaks immersion..every tutorial I've seen is non vr
mighty carbon
something tells me it will be on par with ARkit and not Lightfields
tired tree
a six second "meet" with a photoshopped goggle
wow impressive
the actual page doesn't go much over that either...
spiral zephyr
The sigur ros-demo doesnt seem to show anything that ARcore/kit can't do, except hand tracking i guess. Hand tracking is very possible incorporating existing ML stuff or similar, too.
im 87% confident googles efforts will evolve faster, and "win" sometime late 2018
wicked oak
@tired tree they have been beyond secretive
@spiral zephyr not the same thing, this has lightfields and lazors and shit
i honestly did not expect magic leap to do anything this soon
they truly looked like vapoware at least for 2-3 more years
guess its time to start building my own 3d engine 😛
unreal or others are not a good fit at all for AR
spiral zephyr
how so? Integration with stuff?
Or iteration speed? (im noob, but having a real good time making arcore stuff with unreal(except when I wanted bloom and had to sacrifice almost everything to run mobile hdr..))
wicked oak
iteration speed + control of shaders + more than anything, performance
for ar you arent rendering a world, mostly just a few 3d objects lit by a cubemap
so you really do not need ue4 fancy shit at all, and that only does overhead
tired tree
don't overlook PBR for AR....
wicked oak
PBR is just a few math formulas, you can use that shader on your stuff without trouble
making a 3d pbr viewer is not that hard, you can even follow a basic tutorial that does it
what is hard is use it for full levels
for a single object you just use image based lighting and light it from a cubemap
spiral zephyr
Well if your future lightweight (AR)engine has blueprints i'll come!
wicked oak
i wouldnt add blueprints
just my own scripting system or just in C++
i wonder how Godot would do
given that is very, very lightweight engine
and while it doesnt have culling or things like that, that stuff is not needed for AR
spiral zephyr
as long as its highly visual, i can deal with any script interface.. text code always was a struggle, patterns don't stand out.
stupid brain, no imagination.
spiral zephyr
haha they have "soundfield audio" too, which I assume is the regular spatialization/attenuation/effects/HRTF combo of stuff. Taking pages from Apples book of twisting terms for hype, if its the case.
mighty carbon
I wonder if 4.19Pre1 drops this week.. I doubt that, but I hope it will land before Christmas
tired tree
it should
branch is out and master is locked to 4.20
i'm already starting diffs to port
spiral zephyr
Nice! The mechanics are impressive and interesting, but I cant get over how good that wrench looks...
(unrelated: 4.20 calls for special celebration 👌 )
Torque feedback seems intuitiive
mighty carbon
@tired tree ohh.. are there any cool features / updates coming in 4.20 ?
tired tree
depends on what you consider cool
dynamic res, VR pixel density, VR model loading natively built in, the networking efficiency changes, those are all pretty cool to me.
but I assume you were hoping for dynamic lighting changes :p
sly elk
4.2, are we getting any kind of foviated rendering?
glossy agate
Isn't that only useful when we have good eye tracking?
Or is there another use for it?
sly elk
Just more pxiel density at the center where the lenses resolve better
we had it on our unreal build for starblood arena and I have wondered why it never made it to PC platform use
glossy agate
Nice! What was the center set at compared to the edges? Like SS at 3 in the center, 0.8 at the edges or something?
Also is Starblood on Steam? If you have it working I would like to check it out
mighty carbon
@tired tree I wouldn't mind faster dynamic shadows in VR for sure 😃 I don't hold my breath for VR friendly dynamic GI as it's just not feasible any time soon.
glossy agate
Starblood arena looks really cool! Also good progress on Wrench. If you auto spawn the correct socket size how will you account for how the 9/16 is usually always missing?
wicked oak
also GLTF starting to happen
wich, for blender users, is a fucking godsend
like, the best thing to ever happen to blender->ue4 interoperation
if it works as it should
fuck autodesk fbx shanenigans
wicked oak
@sly elk we do. but for gearvr/oculus go
granite jacinth
But wonder how much that bitch is going to cost
wicked oak
gearvr/go will have multires native in the opengl driver
they have already reported 20% perf improvement in nearly all GPU bound games
i dont care how much it costs im getting one
granite jacinth
http://www.metavision.com/ is about $1k
wicked oak
unless its completely fucking retarded like 5k dollars
granite jacinth
But they have a crapton more money than Meta
All those investors will want their money back
But they need to sell in bulk if they want this to be as consumer-friendly as they are making it out to be
I have a feeling it'll run around $1k at first, alongside Meta2
if not lower to cut out any real competition
But yeah @wicked oak
There definitely needs a dedicated VR/AR game engine
sly elk
I really don't get the AR thing right now. All the cool ideas I have for AR fall apart without really good machine vision that can recognize real objects
granite jacinth
How don't you?
Imagine if Pokemon Go were with Magic Leap
Instead of your phone
wicked oak
literally pokemon world lmao
sly elk
yeah that doesn't appeal to me. Seems like a VR game that happens to have a real world background
granite jacinth
then you are just silly
wicked oak
@sly elk but we do have that stuff. Remember magic leap is under googlle
granite jacinth
And have no sense of adventure
wicked oak
and see all the fancy shit google has
granite jacinth
of gamedev
wicked oak
at the very least, this thing actually 3d maps your environment
it creates a low res 3d mesh of the environment
granite jacinth
Yeah, I mean, the potential for AR once it becomes mainstream is going to destroy VR
wicked oak
you can then use for collisions/pathfinding/whatever
granite jacinth
Unless VR somehows steps up to the plate
But, AR is wirless
which is already a win
sly elk
So to me, what makes the idea of AR compelling is that the real world can interact with the virtual
granite jacinth
Well most anyway
sly elk
but right now that interaction is limited to being a gameboard
granite jacinth
?
Not with any real AR google
goggle
The issue has been price with AR
Until Meta2
But Meta2 never really got any attention
Magic Leap's secretive shit
has always kept them in the spotlight
It was great marketing
As soon as they released this tease today, the whole world went to shit
It affects every industry
wicked oak
@sly elk but you could do your game on AR
and be the exact same thing
just on your room
instead of in a VR garage
sly elk
yeah
wicked oak
you could give your 3d helpers to an actual mechanic
sly elk
so to me, the idea of what would make AR cool is if it could recognize the parts on your actual car
and help you
wicked oak
but it could
sly elk
but right now, it has no idea what it is seeing. It can't tell you "hey that fastener needs to come out"
wicked oak
and even if it cant, you can just show a 3d image of the part, and tell the user to try to locate it
once you find that part, you can then use computer vision to "attach" your 3d virtual version to the real version, and be able to add overlays
or just tell the user to "calibrate it"
spiral zephyr
ARkit doesnt do this, but arcore does remember the whole playsessions registered surfaces. This means, if you tell player to "scan" whole apartment first, then you can set up virtual walls on outside edges of planes, and have a custom fit virtual world. Not a nice autosolution, but there is cool stuff we can do.
wicked oak
you can tell the user to identify some very specific bolts, for example. And then use it to align the virtual car with the real car
mighty carbon
@wicked oak I thought you were anti-mobile VR 😛
wicked oak
but im not
im doing stuff with mobile VR at this exact momoent
preparing the launch of a game, making sure it runs at 60 fps perfect performance so oculus doesnt whine
game has GREAT graphics for a mobile vr game
mighty carbon
sure, but back in the days you were not so cheery 😉
granite jacinth
Rahahah
granite jacinth
Oh
wicked oak
make sure it works perfect and launches on Gear (wich has stupid high requirements)
granite jacinth
Does it?
wicked oak
yes
granite jacinth
Nice
wicked oak
this runs at the quality shown in the pics, at full res with MSAA x4, at 60 fps
on gearvr
mighty carbon
shooting dinos is bizarre 😦 Better have them as pets.
waxen musk
What was the hardest part of maintaining a stable 60fps?
wicked oak
dealing with fucking unity
granite jacinth
Art
granite jacinth
Unity is better at VR/AR though
spiral zephyr
unreal lite, coming 20?? pls
wicked oak
this is a HUGE FUCKING PAIN
making a project that runs on every single vr headset in unreal is trivial
on unity, its a mayor level cluterfuck
granite jacinth
Meh, I would love to stick with Unreal for the rest of my life
wicked oak
becouse the "native" vr, its just the camera movement
literally just that
no way of doing settings, tracking zones, controllers, input, anything
just a camera that rotates
granite jacinth
But, I have a feeling, Epic might get sent packing in the next 5 years if they don't unfuck themselves
wicked oak
the rest is with each specific VR plugin
granite jacinth
They need to refocus
wicked oak
and each of them has their own components and prefabs you gotta use
spiral zephyr
vblanco you are describing my nightmares
granite jacinth
Other open-sourced / AAA engines are outpacing it in the last year
wicked oak
it makes multiplat VR in unity a fucking nightmare
and im not exagerating
it is a fucking nightmare
to port from old cardboard to new cardboard i had to change ALL the player cameras in the game
and write a wrapper
and to add gear vr, i then had to do it AGAIN
and it CONFLICTED
if you wanted to add psvr and vive to the mix...
literally impossible
spiral zephyr
so how many strands of hair you have left now?
spiral zephyr
worth it for 3k
waxen musk
I see. Guess I’m glad we picked UE4 for our current situation. I need to maintain a stable 50fps to sync with broadcasting systems (1080i 25fps) for augmented reality with UE4, so I’ve been scratching the surface of performance optimization and especially mipmapping.
wicked oak
mipmapping doesnt affect performance
it affects a bit of bandwith, but not that much. Its mostly about graphics quality
not using mipmaps will alias horribly
mighty carbon
UE4 is fine for Gear VR if you stick with ES2 renderer.
waxen musk
Especially on interlaced screens 😵😵
wicked oak
for VR, you need to setup your mipmap settings properly
if you do them right, you get great antialiasing on the textures
granite jacinth
After 4.20, we'll see the direction that Epic is going to take UE4
But I don't see VR being in the spotlight again for awhile
It's a shame they still haven't fixed motion controller replication
wicked oak
until apple hires them to do AR stuff
mighty carbon
what's there to focus on?
wicked oak
i dont think motion controllers should be replicated automatically
you do lots of random stuff with them, it would be problematic
its not like implementing your own motrion controller replication isnt trivial
just sending the transform and lerp-ing to it has worked flawless for me
mighty carbon
dynamic GI, docs, AI, performance optimizations, support for non-game related stuff..
wicked oak
lul dynamic GI
there is absolutely nothing about it on the master branch, they arent even looking at dynamic gi
AI is already top tier, anything more is game specific
docs need to get stuff done
mighty carbon
well, since VR isn't going to be a thing according to @granite jacinth , why not ?
wicked oak
performance on what? personally i think they should open the graphics pipeline a bit more
so you can easily disable passes and other things
granite jacinth
@mighty carbon ?
wicked oak
but VR is still a focus on the latest comits. Personally i want FULL VULKAN
granite jacinth
@wicked oak ?
What focus?
one or two commits
is not a focus
If you think about how big it was focused on earlier thisyear
It
s been on a steady decline
spiral zephyr
Audio revolution has been going on this year, new audio engine soon the default. Its existense is mostly essential bc VR/AR.
granite jacinth
Aye
I think Audio is definitely going to be a refocus finally
Finishing up that Audio Engine
And getting VOIP reworked
and a few other audio oddities
Niagara
maybe one day
They jsut have a a lot of unfinished crap in there
tired tree
?
they did MASSIVE VR changes in 4.19
they have been abstracting more and more of the back end
granite jacinth
Meh, not that big
tired tree
just because it isn't "front end featured" doesn't mean they aren't working on it
granite jacinth
They did changes because they had to
spiral zephyr
All the reworking of media-framework, audio-engine is because VR/AR
tired tree
every single plugin and platform got touched heavily in .18 and .19
granite jacinth
It's nothing that the end consumer (us) is going to see
tired tree
....
granite jacinth
Only a few things
tired tree
having an abstract platform
granite jacinth
Just saying it wasn't for us
spiral zephyr
unification of arkit/core going well too
tired tree
wanting them to throw features on top of a system where every HMD is implented differently is terrible
they are working towards correcting the baseline, its the proper approach
granite jacinth
Oh, I don't disagree at all
tired tree
also these release are significantly faster than other engines, not sure what you expect them to achieve in a couple of months between versions
spiral zephyr
i barely have time to read the changelist between versions, its so fast :p
wicked oak
they are preparing for openXR
granite jacinth
Aye, I stated that earlier
wicked oak
making sure the VR subsystems are completely plug and play with every platform
unlike unity, wich cant multiplatform vr for shit
granite jacinth
Which is good
wicked oak
unreal vr is getting more and more unified
granite jacinth
Yeah, because it had to
wicked oak
UE4 not even a contest
tired tree
godot maybe but they are half done on everything
wicked oak
well, true, godot has blazing fast in dev time
but thats becouse its faster to do code on a small engine
granite jacinth
Well, it's getting bigger and biger
tired tree
unity was already set up for the renderer
granite jacinth
Tons of UE4 devs going over to it lately too
wicked oak
its definitely looking very serious for a vr engine, given its very flexible render pipeline and forward focused renderer
tired tree
90% of what unity was doing was community supported
wicked oak
unity didnt do shit
spiral zephyr
i thought tons of unity devs were coming to UE4 lately
granite jacinth
I doubt I'll jump onto the godot bandwagon
wicked oak
and thats actually real. Unity Oculus support was due to oculus making plugins
granite jacinth
But I can see why people are
wicked oak
same thing with steamvr
tired tree
valve directly makes the plugin for unity...
hell, ue4 is going to beat them to the dynamic res too
granite jacinth
@spiral zephyr TBH, that's a myth
tired tree
because the steam branch is out of date for it
wicked oak
meanwhile unreal was a pure deferred engine
granite jacinth
Most Unity devs, stick with Unity
wicked oak
wich is a bit overkill for vr and no antialias
wicked oak
they stick with unity coust its what they know
all i know is one thing
ive seen local game schools changing engine
from unity into unreal
and the results
granite jacinth
Right
tired tree
early into VR unity was the obvious choice, jsut due to the renderer
tired tree
thats been upended
granite jacinth
So I was able to do handson with both luckily
spiral zephyr
yea, companies with devs AND artists are tempted by UE, seeing how much better artist/progrtammer cooperation is with BPs
tired tree
no its not
granite jacinth
Eveyone thinks it's super "artist-friendly" and easy and you don't need to know programming
But..that's not the reality
It is a trap
tired tree
set it up correctly for artists and they don't
granite jacinth
I am stating if they don't have an actual programmer
To build the game systems pipeline
tired tree
thats obvious, you can't make a game without logic
but, go do archvise
or scene layouts
granite jacinth
ArchVis is surprisingly a fuckton of money though
I've gotten a few ArchViz contracts and I am amazed at what they paid me
which means they are making 5x as much as me at least
tired tree
BP is totally artist friendly, you don't expect your artist to make an AI system, and even if you do for some reason, its far easier in blueprints for them to learn
sly elk
Unity is easier to get an artist who has no game engine experience up and running (just bringing in assets). My experience with unity is that when you start pushing towards building something complicated you find features that aren't implemented correctly or just aren't implemented, then you need to go to third party tools and it becomes a maintenance nightmare.
tired tree
unity def has plug and play advantage
spiral zephyr
Im a visual learner/worker, and I can do complete wonders in BPs. I've also learned a lot about algorithm complexity and data structures, and I can read articles on almost any language, and use the lessons in blueprints. I doubt i'd get this far without BPs. I can even read cpp now. And text code reallly scared me before! Thanks blueprints.
tired tree
but thats a result of its core logic running c#
and its a lot harder to modify for artists than a BP package
sly elk
Also thank to you guys pointing out that its crazy I wasn't running version control. I now have a perforce server
tired tree
really free's you up being able to screw up totally and just revert eh?
sly elk
Yeah. i have had VC set up on every other game I have ever worked on but its nice peace of mind. Also VC is way easier to deal with when nobody else is checking shit out