more like a laptop
#virtual-reality
sturdy coral
yeah says 4 Cortex A57 and 4 Cortex A53
the a57 @ 1.9Ghz and a53 @ 1.3Ghz
yeah doom assets were modified, which might have included combining meshes for lower draw calls
I don't know how they clock them mobile vs. docked etc.
but still, that is pretty weak hardware
they only run at 30hz though
tired tree
waiting for final screens, because the "video" preview looked pretty bad
no idea if it was video compression killing it since it was already muddier, or if it really is that low res
oh..
there was a review two days ago....might actually be that muddy
"Unfortunately, while playing DOOM it seemed as if vaseline had been smeared across the Switch screen. The game looked muddy as hell, which prompted me to ask a rep if there was something wrong with the Switch I was using. She assured me there wasn’t, and after getting a look at the game running on other demo units, it looked that was indeed how the game looks and it’s not great (I also asked the same Bethesda rep about the resolution. She didn’t have an answer). The DOOM station was situated right by a giant window, with the light of day causing a nasty glare, which further exposed the lack of graphical fidelity. Enemies were hard to distinguish from the background, and button prompts that appeared on screen were impossible to make out due to the size of the text."
guess that answers that one
sturdy coral
yeah, that could just be because it a dark game
wicked oak
TAA intensifies
seems to be rendering at maybe 500p
and then upscaling to 720p with temporal
sturdy coral
yeah it could be TAA issues I guess
tired tree
not like anyone expected the golden god of shooters on the switch anyway
wicked oak
playing it on a controller is still a crime
you cant play it properly
from time to time i play arcade mode, where i go around like a speed demon hitting everything. You cant go that fast and that accurate on a controller
sturdy coral
non-vr makes a lot of sense for it, many more games should be 2D and VR IMO
mighty carbon
perhaps
tired tree
def anything in space with a ship it doesn't make sense to limit to VR
mighty carbon
I can probably release my new project as non-VR game.. But I am definitely going to make it for VR first.
uneven moon
Any PSVR dev?
tired tree
@mighty carbon pretty sure the point is to make it for both
sly elk
im planning both vr and non vr.. its maybe 20% more work and the potential audience for non VR is way bigger
depends on the game though
sly elk
yeah. Fortunately I don't have that issue. My big problem is parity in dexterity
which is an issue with VR as well. I would love to support something like the knuckles controllers
but if I make the game require that much finger level dexterity then I will have issues with vive wands or mixed reality
glossy agate
Just tested someone elses game from here that had 2D and VR support, also had mixed support. Was pretty cool. Actually ran smoother in VR than 2D for me for some reason. Pretty sure they were using the VR expansion plugin for the support.
Game was Water Planet coming out in a few weeks I think
mighty carbon
well, I don't really care much for non-VR gaming anymore.. It's no longer as immersive as it used to be. So I'd rather focus on what I enjoy and once it's all said and done, I can tweak balance and gameplay for non-VR (using same levels and same assets). Probably would have to make new view weapon models and anims for non-VR.
(would be the same package, just with non-VR functionality added)
uneven moon
Is there a way to set inputs based on HMD used? If the CV1 is being used, I want Button #1 to = X, but on Vive, Button #1 = left MC touch pad, left pressed
Or do I need to package 2 separate builds for the respective HMD?
sturdy coral
@uneven moon you can put a branch on HMD after each event
or in C++ there are better ways
I think it is called setupinputcomponent on the PlayerController, to swap to different bindings and stuff
uneven moon
The only issue I'm having is being able to set the console A and console B as I can't find anything regarding this in the Engine - Input settings
UE4 can't tell the difference between the Oculus and the HTC Vive with inputs, the inputs are generic for both consoles
But, I can tell the pawn which inputs to use based on which console is being used
If I can figure out how to tell the engine that SET A of inputs = Console A, and SET B = Console B
glossy agate
@uneven moon Look at the schematics for button layout numbers on both controllers. The buttons may already overlap how you need, or you may be able to rethink them in a way that will be less work.
sturdy coral
yeah that's what I meant by branching on name
uneven moon
Well, all the inputs are MotionController generic, only difference is the HMD controllers are mapped differently
tired tree
no you can't
tired tree
for steamVR unless you use ouclus only
sturdy coral
@tired tree well you need your plugin to get the name if using steamvr
uneven moon
I use both, also PSVR
tired tree
it will always report SteamVR
uneven moon
So 3 separate builds huh
tired tree
you then have to go get the actal hardware name
sturdy coral
and the controller model has a different transform
uneven moon
So SteamVR might register as Oculus is what you're saying
tired tree
no
steamVR will always return SteamVR
no matter what hmd is connected
its how they implemented that node
uneven moon
But SteamVR supports Oculus though
tired tree
thats my point
uneven moon
I need people on Steam to be able to buy the game and based on their actual HMD, have certain input mappings
So it has to support both
tired tree
you have to directly query the sdk to detect which hmd is being used
epic doesn't implement it
sturdy coral
if using steamvr, you need a different node than GetHMDDeviceName to discriminate between the two
uneven moon
Damn.. would it be easier to ONLY support HTC Vive on Steam?
sturdy coral
you will run into lots of other problems if you want to support both rift on steamvr and rift on native
tired tree
you would have to run two different launch options
uneven moon
Do you have any links to somewhere that explains the process? I've not done this before for release
tired tree
we just explained it....there is no doc for this
uneven moon
I don't know how to query the SDK for example
tired tree
do you know c++?
uneven moon
No, the proj is fully BP
uneven moon
Any realistic solutions, even with compromise if I stick to BP?
tired tree
option in menu
uneven moon
So I let them choose their device and set inputs based on that?
tired tree
but that will get more unweildy as more hmds are added to steamvr
sturdy coral
there is a console command that I think can query it
but I don't think you can read console command results in BP without C++
sturdy coral
that's the one I'm thinking of, but I'm not sure it gives enough info
uneven moon
I suppose something as basic as 'Rift' or 'Vive' would work?
glossy agate
Both controllers have like 1-8 button number. You can compare the 2 and work out your inputs so it works on both. Its pretty intuitive and it worked for my game.
tired tree
that would give enough information
uneven moon
So I can do this on beginplay
tired tree
it does MF, Model, Serial, and driver
glossy agate
Use your input settings
uneven moon
In my input settings, I have MC button 1 set to do a certain action but on beginplay, if HMD is Vive, I need to change it to something else, and if Rift, keep it the way it is
Can I alter my default inputs in BP?
in real-time
tired tree
they have notes about opening up those to blueprints, guess they just haven't gotten around to it yet
uneven moon
that would be really useful
hmm
trying to think of how I'd override those inputs in BP
granite jacinth
Input remapping is possible in BP
granite jacinth
Relatively simple
A bit cumbersome tho
Just look for the nodes
They are pretty self explanatory
uneven moon
Do you know if the HMD Detect will let me effectively remap to Vive / Rift?
granite jacinth
I am sure someone must have done a Tutorial by now also
You can do it however you want
A simple switchcase
What I did before though
Was simply have different inputs for rift and vive
sturdy coral
if you ship with both the oculus plugin and steamvr you need to patch some other stuff in C++ to support rift via steamvr
sturdy coral
granite jacinth
I did a switch case in bp
I have functions for my inputs so, it is a matter of allowing it to do what I want depending on platform
Hmm, I never had issues with both rift and vive
sturdy coral
the oculus plugin gets priority by default so it only affects things if you are trying to support both the rift plugin and the rift via steamvr
sturdy coral
main reason to support both is people complain if you don't have native Oculus sdk support
but people also want to be able to use the steamvr overlay and message friends and stuff
without taking of the HMD
glossy agate
Do you just need button mapping to work on both controller types? If its something simple you may just be doing more work than needed. https://forums.unrealengine.com/development-discussion/vr-ar-development/103602-unreal-button-mapping-names-for-oculus-touch?131000-Unreal-Button-Mapping-names-for-Oculus-Touch=&viewfull=1
granite jacinth
@wicked oak update for psvr?!
wicked oak
there are a couple highly stupid bugs
that im preparing a hotfix for
i watched a minor streamer (with liike 5 views) hit those
sturdy coral
how quickly will they let you get out a fix on PS4?
wicked oak
they have a hotfix specific short way
if you are only doing minor tweaks, you dont need to do full patch review
sturdy coral
oh, that's nice
@wicked oak do they have like a "new arrivals" area of the store where you get featured?
wicked oak
ive had around 6-10 concurrent players since release
uneven moon
How long ago did you release, @wicked oak ?
wicked oak
couple hours
wicked oak
steam page has the latest
uneven moon
I just got approved into the Sony program but I have no clue what to do from here on, did you have to wait a while after you filled out the banking/tax/etc. info out? When I log in, it just takes me to the Checklist page but there are no steps left
Also, what's the game called?
uneven moon
Yeah it took like a week for us
After the form with the IP
What's your game called?
wicked oak
DWVR
full junco
@wicked oak a streamer hit bugs that sony didn't find? I thought you said sony finds everything? 😛
mighty carbon
lol
wicked oak
they find them, but they do not report "game" bugs
they only report tech bugs or crashes
full junco
ah
glossy agate
Yeah with PSVR can you even put out beta keys to have a few testers look at it for you before release?
mighty carbon
I noticed that none of the AR solutions that involve HMD support UE4 😦
it's all about Unity
🙄
mighty carbon
what do you mean by "heavy" ?
tired tree
mmm, think i found the solution for the stereo portal late update issue
uneven moon
Does anyone know what the device names are in UE4 for Vive and Rift?
As in, how they're written out exactly
full junco
just print it out
full junco
well then just check if its != rift for the vive 😛
uneven moon
So if it's Not rift, set as Vive? haha
full junco
yeah
uneven moon
Sounds good, thanks
full junco
I dont think you'll be able to create a game that nicely plays on vive if you only have a rift
you need both for testing
uneven moon
Don't have a budget, unfortunately - we need to test on Vive, Rift and PSVR
It's our first project, it's a hit or miss
But I'll do some testing with others
granite jacinth
you guys are silly
SteamVR
OculusHMD
should be
one sec, opening up my project anyway
@uneven moon
sly elk
fwiw the name of the OculusHMD changed in 4.17
granite jacinth
Aye, that's what I wrote 😉
tired tree
"SimpleHMD"
"PSVR"
"OculusHMD"
// No Gear VR name, returns oculushmd
"SteamVR"
"FGoogleVRHMD"
"OSVR"
"AppleARKit"
"FGoogleARCoreHMD"
uneven moon
Strange..
I did this:
And got 'Oculus Rift' as the print
I then tested it in a branch and got a True if the name = Oculus Rift
This ^
4.16
tired tree
static FName DefaultName(TEXT("OculusRift"));
return DefaultName;
yeah they change them later
uneven moon
So for 4.16 I'm good?
tired tree
yes
uneven moon
Okay cool
sturdy coral
@mighty carbon I mean the weight of it. it looks large so I assume heavy
uneven moon
How did you find all the references without doing prints?
full junco
he looked at the source
uneven moon
Ah gotcha
tired tree
they changed the plugin name from OculusRift to OculusHMD in 4.17
and merged gearVR into it
it managed to break the template and a bunch of peoples projects that were relying on that very same string compare that you are using
full junco
I'm currently testing 4.18 preview 2 with vulkan to see how performance is
in 4.17 it wasn't that great
wicked oak
@full junco tell me the results plz
tired tree
i'll be curious as well
wicked oak
im currently having issues becouse epic had the ingenious idea
of making both the normal gamepad
and the AIM controller
use the same inputs
in fact, they arent like multiple players or anything
tired tree
I didn't check out the vulkan part of 4.18, were there significant changes?
wicked oak
they go through the same exact events
full junco
what was the command for setting the max fps?
wicked oak
this has the great part of "wait why the fuck some streamer has fucked up input"
becouse his gamepad had fucked up input, and was overriding the aim controller joystick
full junco
@tired tree there were a lot of improvements to vulkan, yeah
tired tree
t.maxfps
full junco
ah right, thanks
doesn't seem to work in vulkan, I'm capped at 60 fps
might still be impossible to disable vsync
but yay, profilegpu finally works!
they don't show the total time there, how annoying
it feels and runs very smooth though and this is the first time I don't see any visual artifacts
but this is only the third person example project
tired tree
do you have frame rate smoothing on?
full junco
maybe
I remember a few versions ago rolando said vsync can't be disabled in vulkan yet
I had smooth frame rate enabled
disabling that doesn't do anything though
this is dx11: https://puu.sh/xJvm0/1a6cab2f27.png
SSAO seems to be super slow in vulkan
ha, I reported the bug that running the editor doesn't work with vulkan in 4.18, and 4 minutes later rolando replied that he can't repro it 😛 that was quick
wicked oak
im editing the ue4 code to send the AIM joystick events to MotionControllerJoystick
instead of normal gamepad
that should let me differentiate
dammit epic
uneven moon
Is the Aim controller not recognized as a default PSVR controller?
wicked oak
nope
its recognized as a dualshock gamepad
same inputs
the issue is that the controller is overriding itself
ive just edited the code to turn the gamepad axis events into motion controller joystick events
it has code that is like this
As you see, the FGamepadKeyNames::Motioncontroller... stuff is there
becouse i changed it
it was GamepadLeftJoystick before
essentially its polling the gamepad and sending the inputs to the engine
mighty carbon
does UE4 do async compute for anything, especially in VR ?
sturdy coral
the main advantage of it is doing compute heavy stuff while doing separate memory bandwidth heavy stuff
wicked oak
the idea is to keep the gpu at 100%
so if the gpu is doing shadowing, wich is 100% rasterizer bound (it doesnt run pixel shaders)
then your async shader is using those unused compute units to do other stuff
and yes, unreal does use async shaders
in ps4
SSAO is done on async
mighty carbon
but not on PC ?
full junco
yeah, not on PC
sturdy coral
compute shaders are used for some stuff on PC, I don't know if they run async
mighty carbon
lol, bizarre
full junco
how can I see until which commit the 4.18 branch is in the 4.18 preview 2?
mighty carbon
imagine UE4 renderer was as awesome as id Tech 6 renderer...
full junco
ah, the tag I guess
sturdy coral
yeah git log [tag_name]
sturdy coral
too much clicking
full junco
disabling vsync is not yet supported on vulkan rolando said
@wicked oak @tired tree rolando said that they are now focusing on performance of vulkan: https://puu.sh/xJAeq/74eb24487f.png
wicked oak
getting a bigger amount of players, currently beetween 10 and 15 sustained.
If google analytics its to take seriously, it already sold a hundred copies
sturdy coral
that seems like a good start, it isn't even peak playing time yet
wicked oak
im still really sad there are a couple quite big bugs
one where trying to use the PSVR aim controller can fail if your dualshock 4 is whack
as the shitty joystick will override the aim controller imput
as my controller is on a 100% pristine state
sturdy coral
ah so is it like the ps4 controller is out of the deadzone and overrides it?
wicked oak
doesnt happen to me
yes
in fact, its weird, i have no deadzones
absolutely no deadzones at all
i just went and added my own deadzone to the movement code,
and also made sure to change the aim controller code
so instead of calling the axis events as Gamepad Joystick, it calls them as Motion Controller Joystick
like the vive/touch joysticks
now both devices have different inputs
and i can do logic properly
sturdy coral
I've noticed one of my touch controllers never returns 0 for the joystick axises
it always has a small value
slim raft
Haven't used Oculus stuff, but Vive controllers have similar issues with their touch pads.
slim raft
When I said similar I was thinking about the center position being offset in general
When you are using them as joysticks you don't really ever lift your thumb off them
tired tree
depends on the angle of your thumb as well though
sturdy coral
the steam controller has a good option where you can set it relative to your initial touch
not that that is hard to implement on your own
digital marlin
What are the steam controllers like compared to the PS4 ?
sturdy coral
yeah (the steam gamepad controller)
wicked oak
@slim raft man, the whole point of steam controllers is to leave the players to tweak the settings
they are highly customizable
just make sure your events are easily rebindeable in steam
sturdy coral
I like it compared to PS4's controller for everything I've tried it for, except flying planes in battlefield
tired tree
@slim raft replied to your forums post with a header for a derived SceneCaptureComponent that alters the location / rotation just prior to rendering
you'll have to do all of your custom logic in there instead, I just used basic relative offsets for a hackish test
tired tree
its not full on render thread late updates, pretty sure that would take engine edits
but its the latest possible game thread update
slim raft
I'll take a look
uneven moon
Hey, I'm trying to package my game but I keep getting errors saying that it can't find certain assets
I deleted them a while ago
How can I tell UE4 to not need them or look for them when packaging?
granite jacinth
@uneven moon Did you fix up redirectors?
slim raft
@tired tree So, I see the header file. Can you give me a run down of how exactly I use this class?
tired tree
just a replacement for the scene captures
add your movement logic into the function override
slim raft
So all my update logic needs to go into UpdateSceneCaptureContents?
When is UpdateSceneCaptureContents called?
tired tree
just prior to sending the scene capture information to the render thread
its the very last function before that
anything later would have to be done in the render thread
and there isn't an easy in like with the normal components
tired tree
yeah you likely want it on auto every frame
when you call capture is when it sends the data to the deferred list to render
and that function is called
but i gotta go, good luck, doubt it will totally clean it up but it may make it tolerable
quiet badger
I am so freaking stuck with a bug right now. On first launch of my game I can open my vr widget based menu and highlight items with my widget interaction, but I can't click anything. If I close and reopen my game, from that point on the menu will always work. Steam failed my game because of this bug and I even told them about it in advance. How do I test for this????
I'm using Weapon Master VR, redfoxx is stumped too
pearl tangle
well yeah it sounds like a pretty breaking bug why do you think warning them in advance of a bug would change things? Sounds like a focus issue of some sort or a timing issue with the widget input being enabled. Try a 0 second delay can sometimes fix those things @quiet badger
glad plank
@pearl tangle He figured it out. Something got disconnected that needed to be connected.
tired tree
@slim raft btw, forgot to mention, you need to remove the camera position code you were using and directly query the hmd location. No matter what tick group you use the camera isn't updated until after all ticks are done, so you will always be a frame behind, which would explain why I couldn't see the same extreme wobble in testing.
wicked oak
quite well
if google analytics is serious, around 150
americans are still in the morning, so we will see how it goes through the week
im going to publish a hotfix now
mighty carbon
I doubt too many will get the game in the next 8 hrs or so (target audience is probably at work/school)
wicked oak
yup
good time to upload the patch
if it sells today as much as yesterday, ill clearly reach the goal of being profitable
wich means devkit and freelancers got paid back
sturdy coral
@quiet badger I get the same issue in shootergame, opening and closing the console fixes it
but shooter game has a hook to restore focus after opening the console:
grr can't find it, but somewhere when you open and close the console it resets focus
just finding a bunch of stuff about console (PS4 etc.) when searching for it
here it is:
{
//Always tick the super
SCompoundWidget::Tick( AllottedGeometry, InCurrentTime, InDeltaTime );
//ugly code seeing if the console is open
UConsole* ViewportConsole = (GEngine !=NULL && GEngine->GameViewport != NULL) ? GEngine->GameViewport->ViewportConsole : NULL;
if (ViewportConsole != NULL && (ViewportConsole->ConsoleState == "Typing" || ViewportConsole->ConsoleState == "Open"))
{
if (!bConsoleVisible)
{
bConsoleVisible = true;
FSlateApplication::Get().SetAllUserFocusToGameViewport();
}
}
else
{
if (bConsoleVisible)
{
bConsoleVisible = false;
FSlateApplication::Get().SetKeyboardFocus(SharedThis(this));
}
}
for whatever reason toggling the console on and off will fix the focus issue for me, even if the viewport already had complete focus
slim raft
😆
tired tree
ouch
granite jacinth
The funny thing is
It's actually not the worst idea ever
But, there are bound to be people who are going to be butthurt about misuse of a wheelchair
wicked oak
its fucking retarded
there is little to no change beetween that and just be seated with traditional locomotion
glossy agate
Yeah they already have a foot pedal thing that is similar, but you get to keep your hands free on the controller
Need that arm to play echo arena the right way
sturdy coral
it gives really strong sensations of flight
the harry potter ride at universal uses them
one of starvr's demos was with a wheelchair: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Sxy5ykHH1Ss/maxresdefault.jpg
I don't know if you had any control over it
slim raft
It requires the app to be specifically developed for it. The user base will never be large enough to justify that.
glossy agate
Just need GPUs good enough to render some high quality skin shaders, and labia SSS
wicked oak
i cant art, so i cant do that myself
and ripping of 3d waifus from places over the internet and games is not really that much legal
spiral zephyr
photoscan yourself immediately
slim raft
If you can find a platform for distribution that doesn't ban such wonderful ideas
mighty carbon
it seems like if you sell it in USA, maybe worth thinking about alias. I don't think pr0n looked down upon as much in countries outside of US as in US
slim raft
I think most app stores disallow porn, so you might have to to some marketing on forums and such
spiral zephyr
but i also want to not hate my new sellout self
meh, porn? just skimpy bikinis
and physics
slim raft
🤑 🍆 👌
spiral zephyr
or a pretty robot like edie or something would work
glossy agate
Just have to be able to pose them so weebos can take selfies with them to put on Instagram and devient art
spiral zephyr
maybe 2 lines of voiceover
ye
ARkit is really fun in mirrors, all ar-things are vampires or exist just in mirror
i mean arcore, but same same
mighty carbon
AR should come with strong AI
then lonely single people could have companions (for pr0n and talk) and we can buy Ferraries 😄
glossy agate
OpenAI, if you can write python
mighty carbon
well, actually no AI is needed - just have a real person behind the avatar 😃
wicked oak
no, that ai wouldnt work
you would need game style AI
with a fuckton of possible states
glossy agate
Hey it beat the best dota players
wicked oak
in a narrow well defined problem
you dont want it to "win" against a human
in games you need to be interesting
mighty carbon
AI has to be conversational
wicked oak
and you cant really code an interesting metric
tired tree
granted evolutionary ai isn't required to use a win condition for state changes
you can tie "winning" to making a person happy
glossy agate
I thought the waifu thing was shallow. They just wanted to pretend they are interacting with a teen cartoon girl with bouncy boobs
tired tree
or less than solid concepts, if you work it right
mighty carbon
I am talking about AI AI.. The one you can talk to
tired tree
but its an emergent field still, even this far along
mighty carbon
doesn't have to be human-like, but something that isn't boring and evolves (conversation wise)
glossy agate
Or the AI is trying to get the player off. Have the player do thumbs up or thumbs down for learning reinforcement
mighty carbon
I wonder what kind of AI could recognize emotions and have conversation going.. Probably something that doesn't even exist yet
tired tree
it does to some extent
but its not far enough along to be worth it for something like that
too uncanny valley
glossy agate
But the new iphones have face recognition now, so someone will probably try it soon.
tired tree
they have emotion detecting face tracking already with fairly good results
but you have to account for a very large variability
and the conversation is the hard part
mighty carbon
true
but still it should be good enough for AI to kind see you are moving like a tired person and don't have a happy face to ask you : "Master, are you stoned?!" 😛
glossy agate
haha
wicked oak
ive said many times that cute pets and waifus are the killer apps of AR
waifus are too nerdy, but everyone would like to have some kind of neat virtual pet
tired tree
oh they are...they making a killing on patreon
but its not very fullfilling, so I guess its up to your priorities
glossy agate
Next laptop Ill probably get a mac just for ARKit. Have windows at home for real VR.
Ill try it maybe. Compile thousands of lines from JOI videos, then thumb up or thumb down to pick your own adventure down the tree. Ill make between dozens or millions of dollars.
wicked oak
@tired tree some people do have fun doing lewd stuff
you only need to see all the doujins for anime/manga. where amateur artists draw their own manga about other stuff (most of the time lewd)
mighty carbon
I don't really like all these waifus apps.. Graphics are horrible, anims are worse, no AI at all. Meh.. I also have a real pet, so dumb VR/AR pets aren't attractive either
well, anime/manga look 1000s better than any 3D stuff I've seen so far (in VR)
There are some cutesy looking anime games on Steam, but those are just games and not in VR
I still think until AR comes in the form of goggles it won't be a mass market everyone has/uses on daily basis
wicked oak
its becouse people suck at making them
i do know the tech to do proper 3d anime, but my artist skills are limited
i could probably get one of those models and improve it (tech side) to look quite good
mighty carbon
non-VR related: https://80.lv/articles/level-designer-lost-a-job-offer-over-a-post/ Internets suck and HR who goes by what's posted online sucks even more
wicked oak
that is fucking retarded
mighty carbon
you bet
they should have hired him, and if he didn't fit in, they could have fired him easily - that's what 3 month probation period in US is for
spiral zephyr
@glossy agate why not googles arcore? waiting a couple years? At some point it'll get 'unified' with gEarth, and ai will use existing sensors+knowledge of aprtmnt layout/habits to track good enough from pocket inside and, plus gps etc on the go.
AI problem is no problem as long as connected, bc cloud AI for heavy lifting/stuff that can take 3 secs to respond
mighty carbon
3 sec isn't bad at all
(if that's what it is really, for average house Internet connection)
glossy agate
I just have iphone which is why I was going that route. So I can test it
wicked oak
@glossy agate emulation
sly elk
Hey- For those who have done psvr games. What was your your drawcall target?
tacit quest
hey guys, has anyone bought any of the vr hands from the marketplace? or know where to get good high quality hand with basic open/grab/point/thumb poses included
?
wicked oak
yes, drawcalls use less performance on ps4 than on a big ass gaming pc with literally 4 times the power
blame multithread rendering optimizations, async shaders, and a low level graphics API
slim raft
I haven't seen any hands that looked worth buying.
Bought a set from Ironbelly and regret it
tacit quest
ya those have some bad reviews, i was looking at the other pack from benedikt, but they don't seem to have poses. he has a youtube video setting up an animation bp, but doesn't show where the animations or blendspace come from, and the grab looks pretty bad
oculus hands are awful, thought hands would have been a solved problem by now, it's weird
tacit quest
they are low poly with terrible topology that don't deform correctly with animations
mighty carbon
where did you get those ?
tacit quest
unless there is a high quality version i'm not finding
i got the unreal demo from oculus and the hand pack, both contained the same hands
mighty carbon
btw, get yourself Daz Studio with Genesis 3+ models and cut off their hands.
tacit quest
not in budget
mighty carbon
it's ... free
tacit quest
time isn't free
mighty carbon
the time you spend asking questions here would be better spent downloading Daz and cutting model's hands off 😛
tacit quest
not really, i don't have the time, would have to pass off to artist, editing, cut up, make poses, etc, was hoping there was out of the box solution. the vr template is perfect except robot mesh unfortunately
mighty carbon
okay...
wicked oak
vr template is not enough
if you want good hands
download the oculus sample
they are white untextured, but they have good animations
sturdy coral
Should be possible to animate the ue4 ones to just match their animations
Most of the animations are just blending between two poses
tacit quest
ya was hoping not to have to put too much time into hands. client work, limited time/budget, hoping to spend less time making hands n stuff. will have to make poses regardless i think, might just buy the benedikt hands and get some poses made
it's the mesh in the template that doesn't jive, need human hands
just wanted to ping you guys to see if there was a secret stash people were using since no one was filling the gap in the marketplace
wicked oak
well mate, VR needs good hands if you are going to use hands
thats why for the final vresion of my game i just turn off the hand meshes when picking up objects
that way i dont have to implement hand poses
sturdy coral
My current thought is to have the hands have the whole ue4 skeleton, so that the same animation can be used in first and layered in for third person
mighty carbon
do you guys still write des docs ? Is there some new modern format for GDD ?
sturdy coral
Then you could also have optional IK arms like raw data
wicked oak
@mighty carbon i do/dont at the same time
i dont have a proper GDD
but i do have google docs documents
where i write down feature ideas or plans
sturdy coral
I do all one note because it works on every platform [ actually, not Linux :( ] and has good pen support
tired tree
yeah well, Motorsep is always taking about plot and story driven gameplay
so likely he needs a GDD
sturdy coral
I think this new iphone face capture stuff is going to be reallg big for indie story driven games
mighty carbon
I am wrapping up key points for the story/lore (not going to write actual novel out of it, not yet anyway 😉 ) and since I've written a few des docs in the past, I really don't look forward to writing another one in the same format
(but I have to write something anyway to have a clear roadmap)
wicked oak
no one but you will read that GDD
do not bother on making it pretty
make something you understand for yourself
as a notebook for example
mighty carbon
http://www.gameproducersguide.com/2016_4CKYIV_Anatomy_of_a_Modern_Game_Design_Doc.pdf reading this thing...
my des docs are never pretty 😛
spiral zephyr
dont you mean a folder of new bitmap picture(098).bmp
mighty carbon
@wicked oak did you make a list of assets and such for your project ? (part of GDD or Production Document I am guessing)
wicked oak
my assets are pretty much all marketplace
except the characters
wich are only a few
so no
mighty carbon
aye
wicked oak
i will no doubt have an asset list once i know what i need
for the modular sets and similar
quiet badger
I ended you fixing the bug. The game creates a save if it didn't have one, but never loaded it after
uneven moon
Can I use google analytics on the Oculus store? If so, where in the game submission is this entry?
frosty robin
Does anyone know hwy i cant see my controllers in Editor when using VR, but when baking a project, they are visible?
makes testing pretty hard since no inputs work..
they pop up in the worldoutliner correctly in editor though, but no control over them.. they are just laying on the ground, like i didnt start the controllers.
willow trail
@tired tree Sorry for the ping, but any idea what this is? :/ https://puu.sh/xKXhU/3830c4bd42.png
willow trail
I don't know, I didn't change anything, it just broke suddenly
tired tree
so if you removed that you'd have to remove the module
don't know how their new module dependancy system warns, haven't intentionally disabled a dependancy yet
willow trail
Hmmmm, I don't know, but I can't start the editor anymore
Might be unrelated to your plugin, I don't know Assertion failed: GIsHotReload [File:D:\Build++UE4+Release-4.17+Compile\Sync\Engine\Source\Runtime\CoreUObject\Private\UObject\UObjectBase.cpp] [Line: 608] Trying to recreate class 'UAdvancedExternalUILibrary' outside of hot reload!
I've rebuilt my project, making sure to have everything closed, but it didn't help, should I just pull the trigger and recompile the engine or will that not do anything?
tired tree
engine doesn't have anything to do wit hit
willow trail
alright :/
tired tree
where did you re-compile? it looks like it is trying to build with editor running
willow trail
in VS
I don't know there might be some phantom unreal/vs process running, I'll reboot
glad plank
anyone else getting really erratic and often times bad performance since updating to 4.17.2 and the new steam VR update?
willow trail
The editor loads fine when I start debug through VS, but it fails with the message above when launching it by itself
willow trail
Ok, will do thanks
mighty carbon
@wicked oak do you use UE4's built-in AI stuff (BT/blackboard, Move To, etc.) or did you roll out your own solutions for DWVR ?
wicked oak
i do use it
all those
not really very happy with it. im going to remake the enemies completely and get rid of character movement component, default MoveTo logic, and behavior trees
at least for my basic enemies
tired tree
yeah for your game the CMC is fairly heavy, don't need that much
mighty carbon
what's wrong with using BTs and Move To ?
wicked oak
@tired tree and its a fucking headache to make it jump beetween places
too complicated for my needs @mighty carbon
just extra code i dont need and gets in the way
and for the Move To, i want better logic
than just run in a straight line
mighty carbon
I started watching AI tutorials last night and in the one from WTF/HTF series (where AI simply moves toward player and waits for 5 sec, then moves again) Move To was used. I hear Move To is bad (why? how?) and people replace it with own BP logic. However, I can't find any tutorials showing how to replace Move To in BT with own solution.
tired tree
I think most people running into not liking BT and default AI don't need everything it provides, its overkill
also who said moveto is bad?
mighty carbon
some folks in #gameplay-ai 😛
tired tree
as in?
wicked oak
Move To does what it says
tired tree
one guy?
wicked oak
runs straight to the target
tired tree
i only saw slayemin say that
wicked oak
the thing is that i want to code my characters to not even have charactermovementcomponent, but their own pathing
mighty carbon
I saw it a way back from other folks
wicked oak
so i wont use moveto
i will just grab a path, and follow that one
and do the pathfind async
mighty carbon
so, if there are obstacles, wouldn't Move To go around them to get to you ?
tired tree
yes, in straight lines
it performs its function well
if you wanted more nuanced movement, you'd have to alter it or do something else
mighty carbon
I assume altering has to be done in C++ ?
tired tree
altering yes, making your own, no
mighty carbon
how would I connect BT with my own Move To function ?
wicked oak
you create a BTTask "Custom Move To"
and call it
really not that hard to do in fact
mighty carbon
(I probably should learn AI as is, with all built-in stuff first and then go into more advanced topics)
wicked oak
even in blueprint
but, can you do a pathfind request from blueprint?
there is a C++ function that is NavSystem::FindPathSync/Async
wich essentally returns a path
wicked oak
A*
tired tree
been working on it a long time
tired tree
yeah not nav mesh
tired tree
we are talking about motorsep, he isn't going to be making things in c++
and nativization can get you half way there.....halfway
mighty carbon
I guess I can only find out whether I need custom Move To from making Ai using standard UE4 functionality first, and then iterate based upon what I'll build.
tired tree
granted that project is also turn based
so it doesn't have to worry too much about live results
wicked oak
but you can run into iteration limits in blueprint real fast
wicked oak
still a terrible idea
mighty carbon
what else is "bad" about UE4's AI stuff ?
wicked oak
nothing really is "bad"
its a toolset you can use or not
problem is that you have to use it properly
behavior tree for my AIs was not a good fit
and it caused issues
tired tree
think people run into situations where something will be a lot of work or highly custom and say "its bad"
when its just "not good for my use"
wicked oak
Move To works fine
as a default pathfinding
if you need to go from A to B in the shortest way possible
its all you need
but if you need to do custom stuff, then not really
ue4 lets you easily grab a path from a navmesh
so you can just grab a path, and use your own logic
alternatively
mighty carbon
what do you mean by "custom stuff" when we talk about Move To ?
wicked oak
you can create your own Path Following Component
becouse all Move To really does is find a path, and send it to the path following component
tired tree
things like pausing, speed ups and slow downs, spline based movement?
moveto doesn't do those
wicked oak
spline based movement, dodges, cancels, special movements
tired tree
but its AI
you aren't going to get away with complicated movements without work anyway
wicked oak
yup
mighty carbon
I see
Yeah, I'd have to make my own custom Move To that can do all of those things
tired tree
you can totally work those into BT btw
mighty carbon
using standard Move To ?
tired tree
for the most part
except spline
could move to point along a spline....but pretty much ignoring most of it anyway
mighty carbon
I see
I'll poke at it.. Still have a long way to go with AI 😃
is there any difference between making AI for non-VR FPS and VR FPS ?
(I assume there is no difference)
btw, @wicked oak , DWVR got high rating on PS4 store 😃
tired tree
have to take into account player position and likely want to go off of look direction of the player
nothing else is really going to be different
mighty carbon
aye, cool
wicked oak
oh, thats real nice
seems it was 1 5 star review, and a 4 star review
it seems it will be a success, definitely enough to be worth it
ive got 600 sessions on my analytics
keep in mind this includes PC version. Wich i also released, so also getting some sales
a good stimate would be 400 actual sales
mighty carbon
so far, do you think PSVR would be your most profitable platform ?
(and perhaps less poisonous community?)
@wicked oak ^^
wicked oak
communitity definitely better for now
sales i still dont have final numbers
but looks like its in line to surpass PC
for reference, DWVR has around 1000 sales in PC
beetween oculus and steam
700 in steam, 300 in oculus
more or less
so if i already have 400 sales on psvr in 2 days...
keep in mind its not like in Steam, where you drop off from the new releases list and you dissapear
ill be on the frontpage of "new vr games" for a month or two
mighty carbon
I see, cool
chilly thicket
I feel like I'm probably missing something very obvious.
I have an actor variable, and I want to cast to it.
But for some reason I can't figure out how to cast to an actor that isn't going to be the same every time.
I only see how to cast to certian blueprints.
wicked oak
@chilly thicket learn OOP logic
essentially its a tree
if you want to cast to "multiple" objects, you need to cast to a common parent of them
alternatively, you can use interfaces
chilly thicket
Oh, I see.
wicked oak
if you implement the same interface, declaring a couple events, in your different classes
then you can go and cast to that interface
and call those couple events
chilly thicket
For some reason I don't understand interfaces really yet.
Ohhhh, wait, I understand now.
Or not.
wicked oak
what exactly do you want to do
chilly thicket
Here:
I get the nearest overlapping actor, then attach it to my motion controller.
Then, I want to get a variable called GrabOffset from the nearest overlapping actor.
The nearest overlapping actor will always use the GrabInterface.
wicked oak
dont use an interface for grabbing
im doing the same thing myself, it ended up being bad
my new systems are more interesting
wicked oak
from a prototype in making right now
about advanced interactions and weapon systems
chilly thicket
Nice, I like the snapping and highlighting.
wicked oak
the way that works, is with components
i have a Grab Component
that holds grabbing events
then, in the gun blueprint
i respond to those events
as you can see, different zones do different stuff
the "full highlight" equips the weapon, and the magazine is detacheable
thats all on the blueprint itself
i have a Grab Component that has 3 blueprint events
OnGrab, on Drop, and OnInteract
they do not have physics, they are just scene components
the physics are on the child collision
in the hand, i do a sweep to find all the collision objects of type "Interaction"
and get their parent
if their parent is a GrabComponent, then i use its logic
it IS definitely complicated
but im aiming for very complex interactions
the GrabComponent also holds the hihglight logic
chilly thicket
Ah, interesting.
wicked oak
let me show you a pic of that rifle blueprint
so you see how exactly the whole "grab" components are
chilly thicket
Okay.
wicked oak
the actual code is C++
and unfinishd
this is the header
you can see how i declare delegates and have some properties
that you can then use from the actual weapon blueprint
see how i have 3 different grab components, and each of them has some kind of collision component as child?
chilly thicket
Ah, makes sense.
wicked oak
the actual attachment logic is all on the weaponC++ side
i will end up moving the "normal" parts of it into the component itself, as helper functions
but the idea is that if i want something to be interactuable, i just give it a GrabComponent and setup it
and it will all work
chilly thicket
Ah, okay.
tired tree
Yeah I run the same thing except I used an interface instead
due to having to have it really generic
chilly thicket
Interesting.
tired tree
interfaces make it easier to override functionality on specific objects since you can just change the functions directly
but if you already know what you will have for interactions, a component is fine
chilly thicket
Yeah, I'm still leaning towards using interfaces.
wicked oak
but interfaces dont allow multiple points in one object
and dont have a spatial location
or state
keep in mind im sending events @tired tree
tired tree
Mine do
and have events as well
I run off of socket locations that get passed in by type and closest to query location
tired tree
i'll admit my approach is different from literally everyone elses though
for most grip types the controllers move the object
the object doesn't move itself
except for one type that has the object move itself
wicked oak
i want to leave those configurable
but the exact architecture is still not set in stone
ill create more interactuable stuff with this to see what works/doesnt work
and settle on a system that works for everything and its easy to use for complex interactions
i think this is my 4th interaction system
first one is used in DWVR, directly as a VRItem class
second one was used for VRMultigames, a VRItem interface
3rd one was a component one, but not as good as this one, i used it for my Aquila prototype
4th one is this one
tired tree
should settle on a design soon 😉 could push out your projects faster
this would be a perfect time for you to get your system fleshed out, right after release during bugfix and idea period
wicked oak
yes
im still not completely sure on my next project, so im implementing tech
i dont want to have the mistake like in DWVR
of way too rigid interactions
i want interactions on the level of H3 and robo recall
tired tree
h3 is pretty easy to do / do better for the base system
its all physics, and there are some downsides to how they implement them that is fixable
chilly thicket
I don't know which way to do it anymore lol.
wicked oak
h3 is basically all physics and grabbing stuff
but i dont want to do all physics
becouse physics get unwieldy and i want snappy gameplay
thats why in the video its clear you can telekinesis stuff to your hand
you dont really need to pick stuff from the floor, you can pick stuff from a distance
i do that with 3 capsule sweeps
of different sizes
to "emulate" a cone trace
glossy agate
h3 went super in depth too. You don't really need to chamber actual mesh rounds in most games. But I watched some of his dev vlogs, lots a of cool stuff.
I just spawn shell if its been fired, and a full bullet mesh is its chambered but not fired. Bullet meshes in the mag are just to show you have ammo and dissapear when the mag is empty.
tired tree
well its a gun simulator, that is its core attraction
glossy agate
Yeah for his its perfect.
silk lodge
@wicked oak any reason you don't do a dot product / ray cast?
wicked oak
@silk lodge i AM doing raycasting
sphere sweeps
for the actual object to use, i get the first item (distance)
closest one
silk lodge
those sound way moire expensive
wicked oak
might add dot product for angle later
so what?
not really
it really isnt a problem at all.
silk lodge
I suppose if you're not using it that much
wicked oak
for the last or second sweeps, i might use angle, thats not a bad idea. But most likely i will end up with a formula balancing distance and angle
tired tree
puzzabug are you talking about multiple ray casts, or getting every object in range and raycasting to them. Because both are slower than his method
wicked oak
my method is just 3 sphere sweeps on the Interaction channel
and check the stuff that its hit
the ONLY objects on the interaction channel are the trigger collisions for interactuable objects
so i guess physX will do it well
tired tree
can't that pick up objects through walls then?
wicked oak
yes
it can
might do something about that if i find its needed
like a worldstatic trace back
tired tree
on bounds edges
glossy agate
if walls blocked that channel and did nothing with it wouldn't that work? Anything in front would pick up due to less distance
tired tree
and if it is half blocked?
glossy agate
yeah i guess you would be stuck there until players figured out how thick the trace was to avoid wall
chilly thicket
So, can someone explain which way is better for this?
I want to get a variable from an actor blueprint.
But the blueprint I'm getting it from will be different depending on what actor I'm choosing.
glossy agate
Cast to parent of that class and just get the var
chilly thicket
Okay.
tired tree
base parent actor for everything like Ryan said, or an interface to "getValue"
glossy agate
What is your actor specifically?
tired tree
interfaces don't need everything to have the same parent, so they are more useful for things that are drastically different but need the same variables.
chilly thicket
So, just a second, how do I do a parent class for all my grabbable objects? I'm confused about that.
@terse quartz It's a actor mesh.
glossy agate
BP_grippableobject. Then right click and create all your child actors from it
They will inherit all the common variables
chilly thicket
Oh, I think I see now.
tired tree
anything with that as the parent, you can cast to the parent class, and if the cast succeeds, use its variables
chilly thicket
I honestly need to re-write and clean up my code, because it's super messy now that I've been trying to add stuff on and get this to work.
So for the parent class I just need to make a blueprint thing with the variables/code I want?
tired tree
yeah well you are still learning and experimenting, you'll make a final system later
chilly thicket
Yeah.
tired tree
anything you made prior to parenting / interfacing is likely not something you would want to use in the end anyway
chilly thicket
Do childs of parents inherit the event graph code too?
tired tree
yes
chilly thicket
Oh okay, cool.
tired tree
and functions
chilly thicket
Nice.
That should work for me.
And then, just to confirm, I would cast to that parent class, targetting the actor that is a child of that class?
tired tree
yes
terse quartz
@chilly thicket tagged the wrong guy
chilly thicket
Huh?
terse quartz
Happened twice now in this discord.. wonder why people can't tag the right "Ryan"
chilly thicket
Oh, oops.
terse quartz
You tagged me
chilly thicket
I see what you mean now, sorry about that.
terse quartz
No problem. Just try to look at the pictures and name spelling :P
glossy agate
There can be only one! We have to fight to the death now
chilly thicket
Good idea.
sturdy coral
4.18 media framework livestream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql2zvhzm6s8&feature=em-lbcastemail
it might have some of that additional Vr stuff
(haven't watched yet)
granite jacinth
@sturdy coral I tuned into it for a bit. Looks promising, especially whenever they enable 360
Did he go over VR applications at all?
sturdy coral
I just watched the beginning to see if he gave a summary, he just kinda jumps in and says he'll be demoing everything
so I don't know if there is actually any VR content in it
sturdy coral
he breifly mentions 360 video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql2zvhzm6s8&t=25m
mighty carbon
alpine torrent
full junco
i3 is for office
mighty carbon
lol
full junco
i5 or i7 for gaming
full junco
well, you haven't played my game 😛
mighty carbon
that means your game needs more work 😉
full junco
no, it means an i3 is slow
mighty carbon
not when that i3 can run all AAA games on the market
full junco
it can't
full junco
min spec for star wars battlefront 2 is i5
recommended spec is i7
and thats the only game where I read about any specs recently
surely other AAA games are similar
mighty carbon
I haven't played SWBF1 so I can't say much about that.. Not my kind of game
full junco
min spec for battlefield 1 is i5 too
assassins creed origins is i5 min spec too
every game I google says i5 min spec
oh, and Dishonored 2 also has min spec i5
doesn't mean it won't run on a i3, but it means the devs think it will run so badly on a i3 that you shouldnt even buy the game then
mighty carbon
eeh, doesn't matter what min specs are.. I am telling you I've been playing on my PC smoothly
Deus Ex MD is very demanding game
More demanding than Dishonored 2
full junco
well, I know people that played games at 10 fps for hours and say it runs "smoothly"
mighty carbon
lol, no, I am not playing at 10 fps
those games are designed for 30 fps in mind (Doom is for 60 fps in mind)
mighty carbon
do you guys know if 4.18 will have any AI improvements / fixes / features ?
uneven moon
Animation during simulation ^
Animation during VR preview ^
In the sim mode, on PC, the character's height in the world is correct and his arm is against the ground
When played in VR, he is higher up and this causes his arm to not be on the ground + his head to peak when it shouldn't
Why is there a difference in his spawn height based on VR preview or standard in-editor sim?
Here is the only thing that happens differently when in VR:
The spawned actor's rotation faces the player...
Whereas in-editor sim, it always faces one direction that for some reason the engine thinks is the HMD when it isn't. He even walks to it if I let him, and stops when he gets there.
This is all fine, but why does rotating him to my camera manager cause him to spawn higher up?
lament bay
Hey everyone- I'm having a lot of trouble right now around double vision texture tearing stuff happening with 4.17 and the rift. I have one basic 3d umg element in the scene at this point, and nothing else, with just some text and a solid blue background, and when I move my head up and down in the hMD I'm seeing really severe texture tearing/double vision kind of stuff-- like the same exact copy of the umg widget flickers rapidly over and over as I move my head up and down... and it also happens when I move my head horizontally side to side as well
Does anyone have any idea what the issue might be? I have a 1060 laptop setup too
So now Im feeling like Im going crazy... The default VR motion controller map has no tearing at all, and when I migrated it into my project, to make sure it wasn't a project-specific settings issue, it ran just as smoothly. I then migrated the same asset that was giving me so much trouble in previous map into the VR default map, and the tearing no longer appeared! I also tested this just with a simple cube with an unlit material with solid emissive color, and saw same results...
Is it possible there's some kind of map specific graphics setting I screwed up somehow? Or some kind of corruption to a specific map ?
another interesting tidbit...I migrated the map with the basic cube which had the judder to a fresh project, and even though the only thing in that map is the one cube, the "Compiling Shaders" dialogue box popped up and compiled 1200 shaders...\
the judder seemed to be gone though
glossy agate
@uneven moon try breaking the rotator and ignore pitch?
digital marlin
@mighty carbon what was the name of your game again?
uneven moon
@glossy agate I'll test that now
It worked! Thanks a lot.
That was my last bug, game's done haha
mighty carbon
@digital marlin For Gear VR ?
willow trail
Dammit, anyone having problem compiling while the editor is open? I suddenly just can't do it anymore, linker can't open advancedsteamsession and vrexplansionplugin dlls
works fine if I close the editor, but I didn't have that problem before
uneven moon
When uploading a 'binary' to Oculus, do I just package my game in a zip and upload that??
uneven moon
I did, it just says 'upload binary'
uneven phoenix
alright, does anyone know how to determine which contoller is interacting with a given object?
uneven phoenix
i dont, i dont even have them yet. but im trying to find the controller that is holding an object, the thing that im doing im going to make it so that it always keeps one object still, and the other object moves.
i made a reddit post about it, but havnt gotten anything yet
granite jacinth
@uneven phoenix K, well, make it
And use the reference of the controller
Anytime you interact with something, use an interface
or if not, and you cast, just pass it
uneven phoenix
alright
quaint loom
@uneven phoenix further to @granite jacinth you can have the interface pass an output to tell you that a pickup was successful and to pass the object/actor reference of what it was. Can do on Blueprint Class or Blueprint Interface
and/or (if you prefer)
echo thorn
@tired tree Hey buddy , i was finally able to create a VR handicam in vr with 2d scene capture, a bit similar to yours but i was thinking of having one more feature on this , but i am not able to find a solution
This is what i want , i want to run this command when i pull the trigger on my vive "SP.PanoramicMovie" this is a plugin command
plugin - Stereo Panoramic Capture
it is all happening but BUt , it is capturing from the main VR camera
i want to capture shots from that scene 2d screen i created , Would it be possible @tired tree , @granite jacinth
Right now this is a viewport mode
PS- Can Stereo Panoramic Capture plugin work on 2d capture component!
Anybody can help thoug
pearl tangle
@echo thorn Why don't you try the monoscopic 360 capture plugin, would work way faster and easier too
echo thorn
Well that plugins sounds new to me
pearl tangle
the stereo 1 will only use the camera that you are currently focussed on im pretty sure
echo thorn
plugin*
