not fancy as hell like ASW
#virtual-reality
wicked oak
sturdy coral
60->120 with ASW might end up being the sweet spot, with layers to run media at native 120/60/30/24
asw definitely has some noticable artifacts sometimes though
wicked oak
its what everyone does in ps4
the mayority of games run at 60 to 120
it looks quite good
the weakness of psvr is the tracking
and the hand controllers
its better than the DK2
much better
DK2 style games (seated with controller) work far better on psvr than they did on DK2
sturdy coral
tracked controller is nice.. less disembodied feeling
sturdy coral
DK2 gave people some eerie feelings of isolation and stuff
yeah and CV1 pre-touch
now they added xbox emulation to touch finally, I wonder if it overlays your hands even in games that weren't built to
I guess they may not be sending the depth buffer
lapis glen
According to my research the isolation issue still happens with the HTC Vive and presumably with the Oculus Rift as well.
sturdy coral
@lapis glen yeah, but it was much worse with no hands or anything
I have kinect stuff hooked up now and that helps a ton to see your full body
hopefully MS uses that with their VR stuff on scorpio
lapis glen
The testers had problems communication across the VR to non-vr barrier.
sturdy coral
just always give you a body if you want
lapis glen
Nobody reported a problem with a lack of body when we used the DK1+2. They had their hands and that was enough, they said.
lapis glen
The leap
And they didnt report any issues with not having a body, but not being able to show the other people what they were holding, doing etc
sturdy coral
ah yeah that adds a ton, more detail than kinect in a lot of cases
lapis glen
They even asked stuff like "Where are you? Are you there?"
lapis glen
True. Too bad it cant be used for education and research due to the added hazzle.
My research focused only on HMDs and how it can be used to further scientific visualisation.
sturdy coral
kinect v2 is a real pain in the ass, very limited usb controller support
and every usb controller I've found for rift is incompatible with kinect so you end up with two
oh yeah gamestop had them on sale the other day for $30, I picked up two extras but don't have the PC adapters for them yet
full junco
I think the SteamVR splash screen actually can't play any movies
it needs to be ticked by the engine every frame to play a video
tired tree
lol hip tracking is actually stupid fun
glossy agate
@tired tree you have some vids of what you did? We want to check it out
tired tree
the waist?
glossy agate
I mean, unless its perveted shit haha
pearl tangle
in which case definitely share it hah
tired tree
lol no, just in the middle of a rambling video talking about other new things too...i'm not the best speaker, get distracted :p
glossy agate
^
tired tree
its after the OpenVR keyboard info
not showing off IK, just the generic calibration method
pearl tangle
maanged any decent IK with 3 of them?
tired tree
thats fairly easy
i'm more interested in the waist tracking for player capsule driving
pearl tangle
my next experiment is going to be building out a bunch of different tools on a workbench and throwing the leap motion back on for hand tracking. but keen to try out a decent IK rig with a few of them
glossy agate
That's pretty cool!
tired tree
I wanted a method that didn't care if the tracker was positioned differently / someones waist was large or small
think I got it
sturdy coral
@tired tree looks good, your method should work with an extra controller too right? I still have a couple VDK1 controllers I don't use
tired tree
yeah, its set to any component
since I have the steam trackers in their own module
wanted it platform agnostic
pearl tangle
anybody figured out a way to apply a mesh to the tracker in steam vr actually?
tired tree
besides the default one it uses?
pearl tangle
yeah it doesn't have a proper mesh or material on there, still just the default grid with the bit sticking out of the usb port
dusky moon
Yo! any news on 4.16 guys ?!
flint pasture
Not really, other than the official 4.16 branch is up on GitHub now. Still has bugs and missing features from the geometry branch. Hopefully real news soon.
pearl tangle
the geometry stuff is not making it into 4.16, maybe 4.17
dusky moon
I just want that new sound engine to mess with...
pearl tangle
just grab the master branch?
dusky moon
Yeah should go for that!
dusky moon
I'm trying to find out how/where in Roborecall's main menu when you press each button of Touch controller they turn into Yellow , or it's analoge tracking ?! any clues ?
pearl tangle
you can get the touch event on them in the same way you do with the vive wand and the same way you have the default hand model on there have its animated open and close stuff
dusky moon
right! needs some extra effort to map all those stuff... was wondering that it could be super handy if we had a template like that
pearl tangle
yeah its already pretty much in there in the default template with the hands already. You are just modifying the material, like 3 blueprint nodes
dusky moon
@pearl tangle you mean VR_Template which is built in ?! or content examples ?
pearl tangle
in the vr template
dusky moon
I actually found it in Engine Contents , there's an Oculus touch mesh with sockets and a material
pearl tangle
yep which they use in the vr template same as the vive wand
mighty carbon
This is wicked - why people who tried VR don't really see use for VR personally. I talk to people I know in rl and online and they can't seem to come up with a good reason for having VR in their lives (Even if it was more affordable)
pearl tangle
a lot of people don't play games
mighty carbon
That's the thing - those people do play games on PC and consoles
pearl tangle
then i guess everybody just has preferences. im sure once there are some amazing games available and resolution, ergonomics and everything else improves then plenty more people will be into it
mighty carbon
Even when it comes to non-games, they still can't imagine VR being used.
Well, if people don't buy into VR now, it won't get to the next level.
pearl tangle
people didn't used to buy Mac's either
first gen hardware doesn't need to go mainstream for things to develop. early adopter stuff is still bad quality for a fair while
lapis glen
@mighty carbon I am currently just about to finish a thesis attempting to address exactly the problem of low adoption rates.
full junco
people are still not buying many Macs since Apple doesn't care about those any more
lapis glen
I would love it if people stopped buying Macs, macbooks and other apple products because they are shit, but hey. 😛
pearl tangle
people buy apple products for a range of reasons. the quality of them is usually not top of their list
full junco
I have no issue with adaption rates being low for now. it's good for us as indie devs
pearl tangle
yeah plasma TV's were slow to adopt as well, the next level with LCD/LED things started to pick up big time
lapis glen
Personally I think that adoption rates in non-gamer spheres like education, research and industry is very important to get the VR ball going.
full junco
if vr would be a bigger market, there would be way too much competition from AAA companies
pearl tangle
education and research are already getting into it big time
full junco
@lapis glen I disagree very much. I think only gamers matter for VR
what was the driving factor behind GPU adoption back when regular people didn't have a GPU? was it gaming or was is something different?
VR is basically the same like GPUs
lapis glen
@pearl tangle They have looked into VR since the 90s, but the common problem with the research into VR as a medium to further scientific visualisation is the simple fact that the focus has been on making existing algorithms work in VR to some extent. No research has been made into creating a baseline for how to make good VR visualisers, what VR is good at doing over monocular systems and what are the new rules for designing algorithms for VR. It is completely new and needs a foundation that is custum fit for it. IMO
mighty carbon
Lol, what realm do you guys live in? It seems that VR understanding and presence is slim to none outside of tech metro areas.
lapis glen
@mighty carbon It would be more widely known if encountered through education for example.
Spreading the word is important. Marketing
pearl tangle
there is about $100mill in investments into that sort of stuff over here in Singapore alone. Government is getting behind it bigtime to update a lot of their visualization tools to VR and plenty going on with data viz
full junco
enough people know about VR
I read so many articles about VR in the mainstream media
over many years now
usually they wrote about the rift
but I think knowing about that VR exists is not an issue
lapis glen
This is how VR porn is - Article from 03.04.2016. Over a year ago. That is the latest article on any of the big 3 newspapers here.
mighty carbon
@pearl tangle not in Texas :(
full junco
@lapis glen seems German media is a bit more interested in VR
lapis glen
Well, I will work to spread the gospel of VR and provide free marketing because more marketing can not hurt.
If current understanding and knowledge amongst the general populace is adequate, then I ain't doing harm. Otherwise I am helping.
full junco
we don't need marketing for VR as a whole, but marketing for our games would be nice 😁
good games will make VR popular
pearl tangle
needs to be some good games to market first. not much out there yet
full junco
tiltbrush is a good game, many people that aren't gamers like that a lot
well maybe it isn't a game, but it's a VR software
mainstream compatible vr software
pearl tangle
its not going to make somebody buy an expensive system to play that though like zelda is for the switch
full junco
yeah, right
pearl tangle
whatever valve is working on might be that, but seems like they are waiting for next gen of hardware before they get stuff out there so they will be the system sellers for that id say. do a left 4 dead vr, half life vr and counter strike vr and that will sell you plenty of hardware
full junco
those are shooters, I don't think shooters and VR is a good combination
I know some people will disagree
pearl tangle
whats the better combination? Id say most of the successful VR games so far have been shooters
full junco
I think thats mostly because people are used to shooters by non-vr games
not yet sure about whats the better combination
mighty carbon
First person games is the best match for VR
Got my Rift today. So when I get acquainted with system, I'll test it on my wife and see if she gets into desktop VR (Gear VR didn't do good job in keeping her engaged and coming back), and which of the apps/games will retain her interest.
full junco
of course first person games is best in VR, anything else doesn't make much sense
I only said shooters +VR are not a good combination in my opinion
mighty carbon
Robo Recall seems to be extremely popular
full junco
its one of the only games that was produced with some money
mighty carbon
Arizona Sunshine devs keep making new content
full junco
have never looked at that game, don't even know what genre it is
mighty carbon
FPS with zombies
full junco
a zombie shooter? sounds boring
mighty carbon
Raw Data seems to do extremely well and it's still in Early Access
full junco
aren't most VR games still in early access?
mighty carbon
Not sure
full junco
there isnt really any alternative to early access for most indie devs
mighty carbon
I didn't keep track of desktop since I didn't have hardware :)
If everyone is for themselves, sure.. and even then early access might not help.
That's why I am looking to join forces with someone (preferably programmer) for desktop VR project
I am still a bit iffy about viability of desktop VR when anyone I ask don't really care for VR, even though they admit it's interesting
Maybe a new generation will fully embrace it, but current generation seems to be weird about VR
full junco
well there are at least 1 million people with desktop vr headsets I think. you don't need to know those people personally
and a million is enough for making money from a game
full junco
for now. there are still people who start buying vr headsets now and in the future
mighty carbon
Say it's $19 game and you spend years making it. Not too shabby.
full junco
so if 1% of the existing people buy your game and 1% of the next million people and so on...
10000*19 per year is enough for 1 person even after you remove all royalties and taxes
mighty carbon
(Not too shabby for USA that is)
$190k - Steam or/and Oculus share - Epic share - taxes
full junco
like I said, for 1 person it's definitely enough
mighty carbon
If it would be made as part-time project with someone else and released withing a year, yeah, it would be a decent side income
It's not. I've been a full time indie dev and I can tell you it's not enough.
full junco
hm? even if 75% goes to steam and epic and taxes, you still have 50k
mighty carbon
$98,800 is what would be left (and I went optimistic on taxes)
full junco
and that's not enough for 1 person for a year?
mighty carbon
That's only around 2 years of my current salary
If you live with parents, have no debt and solid health, perhaps that's enough money
full junco
so you say making twice your current salary wouldn't be enough?
mighty carbon
Not to quit my day job
I have family, debt, need health insurance
So no, that's not enough
Not as primary income
wicked oak
you have higher costs there
on my country with 100.000 a year you are really high class
keep in mind that money is pretty much it. Housing is cheaper, education is free, healthcare is free
pearl tangle
you aren't going to keep making that annually. if you release a game probably 50% of your sales will happen in the first week for a little indie game
full junco
@pearl tangle well I dislike that and hope its not true
wicked oak
yup, 50% or more is the launch week
there are some special cases, like a big youtuber covering your game or just having a viral game that has a serious tail
full junco
I dont want many people to play my game shortly after release. there isnt much content yet etc. I want a small amount of people to play it to help me know how to improve it best. then improve it for 1-2 years and then I want many people to play it
wicked oak
dont worry mate, releasing as early access will be hugely limited
it goes absoultely nowhere.
at least in steam
pearl tangle
then you will be too late by then. in 2 years time hardware and everything will be completely different
pearl tangle
people find a game when it pops up as a new release. nobody cares about it 6 months later
wicked oak
in exchange for lower sales
just look at any survival early access game, like Ark or Rust or Dayz
they labeled early access and released it years earlier than it should
full junco
@pearl tangle well I dislike that
mighty carbon
Ark is made by 4 dev companies and published by actual publisher
pearl tangle
hah dislike reality all you want
wicked oak
you need your own external marketing
a kickstarter is a good choice even if you fail, as cool kickstarters get covered everywhere
pearl tangle
i think working with a proper indie publisher if you have something good and a proper production plan and revenue projections would definitely get you much further. I will be setting up a company like that shortly as part of a consortium im putting together between agencies, PR, development and VC's
eternal inlet
anyone by chance stumbled over some word about rendering to layers in some release notes for ue4.16?
wicked oak
indie publishers lol
if you get covered by one of the actually good ones, like Devolver or Paradox, then ok
think about it, the publisher job is to be known
how many indie publishers you hear about?
pearl tangle
not many. thats why there is a gap in the market. it's not necessarily about being known as a publisher. it's about having the capabilities and connections to get the content known and out there. when you have a group with ties into all the media publishers, discounted media buys and business managers that definitely comes in handy. thats where most indie developers fall over
wicked oak
thats why its a "lol"
if Devolver wants 60% of my game profit, i will accept that deal
becouse its fucking devolver
and they get their games everywhere
and support the devs
but if one indie publisher tells 60% while they do barely anything, its not worth it
full junco
minecraft didn't need a publisher
mighty carbon
Well, 60% to Devolver, 30% to the platform (Steam for example)
wicked oak
not like that, but 60% after the platform cut
i know its less, but Devolver games sell quite a lot most of the time.
also, Devolver only deals with some kind of games
clever sky
So Vblanco, you think Devolver's rep is solid gold for indy devs?
mighty carbon
10% from 1M sales, sure. There is no guarantee it happens.
clever sky
Fair call. And that's what they're asking for? 60% of 70%?
mighty carbon
Minecraft was one of those miracles
clever sky
42% take 😛
wicked oak
just an invented number
wicked oak
but some of the indie publishers i got communication did say 60% or similar
i obviously rejected
i mean wtf you smoking 60% as an indie publisher with low reach and without investing in the game
and like those, you have a LOT
what im in talks is with a PR/marketing company
clever sky
I mean, I get the value they bring to the table. But that's basically a good reaming, because they get to pick their partners after sifting through for the best.
wicked oak
to help me get the game store and trailers and marketing materials to professional level
clever sky
Ah yeah.
wicked oak
yeah, Devolver gets massive amounts of requests from indie devs
but they only take the ones that catch their attention
just go look at Devolver list of games
clever sky
Yeah. I know. I've enjoyed a good number of them 😛
They're good at curating that 'devolver style'.
pearl tangle
@wicked oak thats essentially what im setting up here.
the pr marketing and content creation side of it for advertising
helps when you own a media company and work in a creative agency and sit on a VC board. but anything as a risky investment the people are going to want a decent cut because it involves actually investing money to do the media buys and the content and everything for it, thats what they are putting into it
wicked oak
ill just end up paying directly for the materials and localization i need. For my second release with ps4
pearl tangle
yeah depends what you are doing really. If i was creating marketing material for a game it would need a range of different content
Trailer video
gameplay videos
teaser videos
animated gifs
photos
social content creation
Press releases for different platforms
html5 banners
digital media buys
interviews
etc etc. pretty long list of stuff that has to happen to do decent marketing
clever sky
If you can generate the digital media side... what's the other value that's been added? networking connections mainly?
wicked oak
do not understimate the networking
clever sky
i.e. knowing who to speak to to get the stuff done?
wicked oak
many press wont give a shit about you unless you are already popular, a sob story, or have contacts
clever sky
Oh, I'm not 😛 they're valuable for sure.
wicked oak
basically, if i send an article to a press website, it gets ignored
clever sky
Yeah
wicked oak
if someone from playstation does, it wont
pearl tangle
having the right contacts in the media side definitely makes a huge difference. we do exclusives and all that other crap too. being able to jump on the phone with the editors gets the content out there
wicked oak
blah @madtriangles.com talking about a game, meh
instant delete
or just ignoring it
mighty carbon
So, can I count on getting PR with your help for my Matrix'esque VR game, @pearl tangle ? :)
wicked oak
im going to need a lot of help for the ps4 release. Im trying to speak with the local playstation branch
mighty carbon
@pearl tangle what % would you be after (approximately?
vagrant mantle
Any plug in available for ik for HTC vive?
clever sky
To be fair, the lion's share of funds raised for VR this time last year came from an $800 million burst of financing for VR developer Magic Leap. That round of investment carried four times the weight of any other funding for VR.
wicked oak
i wonder if magic leap will ever live up to the hype
but its got Google behind
google are masters of tech
clever sky
I'm sure it'll offer something compelling over the current status quo.
Not sure if that'll hold true when they release, as they're not the only player in town.
Could be their tech vector just can't be minituraized like they led investors to believe initially.
Certainly, that seems to be the case from the reports we've received about it.
i.e. they showed off their big ass 12 layer depth rig with a big ass helmet... and then a year or two later, still hadn't managed to shrink it down to a consumer acceptable size and had already made more progress on contigency solutions...
And as much as I respect Google for tech, you should also note that Google has had plenty of failures... indeed their Google X team emphasizes failing fast as their creed for coming up with innovative tech 😛
mighty carbon
Google shut down so many projects already
Just because Google is behind Magic Leap it doesn't mean it will be what they say it is in the nearest future
glossy agate
Just finished the last boss on my game! Now just some optimizations, and a few small changes before releasing next month.
1 man game is more tedious than I thought. The fun kind of wears off after the prototype stage haha.
glossy agate
Yeah next month release. I think I have the 24th as release date on steam
All levels are done (need to optimize streaming still)
Tutorial is done, left in the demo content. Level select done, bosses done ( thanks to you for that).
And it drops you back into the menu after the boss battles. Still a few things I want to fiddle with, and I'm waiting on my buddy to send me a few more music tracks.
I would say 95% done, minus any broken shit I'll have to patch when other users find it.
eternal inlet
sound exciting @glossy agate lemme know if u need a beta-tester, i'll be happy to lend a hand
glossy agate
Awesome, thanks man! I'll send it over once I have a clean build.
wicked oak
send me a steam key and ill test the game
glossy agate
Will do.
full junco
@glossy agate do you have to set a fixed release date on steam?
glossy agate
No I don't think so. I set it by accident to a specific date, but it works.
You can choose a coming soon, or set it to a yearly quarter if you want.
full junco
well I just want to say "now" at some point once I think its ready
glossy agate
With a specific date live though it forces me to stick with it and hit the deadline. Hard cause it's busy season at work right now
full junco
well I dont see that having a deadline would help, if there are bugs or whatever, it has to be fixed before release, no matter if theres a deadline or not
glossy agate
Yeah, that's why I was working to finish the core a month ahead, so I can fix and test.
And go on vacation to disneyland
full junco
😄
I hope I'll release soon too
less than a month I hope
I don't plan to go on vacation to disneyland
glossy agate
Right on man! I want to check it out. You have been super secret with your project
wicked oak
im not that sure if a "NOW" is that good. Generating some pre-buzz means that when you actually DO release, then it gets a small "spike"
and that spike makes steam know its a cool game and bumps it up to the "popular new releases", then to "popular games" and the frontpage
if you manage to make it so your games "spike" at launch, then you will game Steam
and multiply your sales HARD
by orders of magnitude
unless you can give review copies around and just go with the "releasing now" part
the biggest traffic to DWVR came from the time it spent on "popular new releases"
by FAR
when it droped from there sales went to almost 0
full junco
do you mean "spike" as in "in the first hour after release many people buy the game"?
glossy agate
Yeah it works like edge rank or any seo. Traffic carries weight.
For my demo I got lots of traffic off Reddit but demos don't really get any steam traffic
full junco
what was your demo?
glossy agate
I have a little over 1000 demo downloads, but I have no idea if that's a lot.
Trance vr
It's playable on steam right now
full junco
your trailer is very abruptly ending
not even fading out the music, just stop and black
glossy agate
Yeah, working on the new trailer this weekend to show the real levels.
Was hoping nobody would watch more than 15 sec of the one currently up haha
full junco
haha
wicked oak
still a better trailer than mine XD
dont understimate the extremelly rabid crowd that CAN play that kind of game
they feel they are forgotten by devs becouse devs make games with stuff so more people can play it
so a game that is specifically for that crowd might go fine
make sure to start posting gameplay videos leading to release, and most importantly, try to find youtubers that like smooth movement vr games
ill make sure to leave you a positive review when you launch
the trailer is the absolute most important part
i messed up HARD by having a bad trailer
easily my biggest mistake with DWVR
full junco
do you see how long people are usually watching the trailer?
wicked oak
no
but its the first any possible buyer says
the order is more or less:
icon image (to click on it while brower, includes name)
trailer
and then reviews/text
but on my findings, no one EVER reads
VRMultigames had info on how to play straight on the store text
in BOLD
and people still couldnt read it
full junco
did they complain about not knowing how to play it?
full junco
many?
wicked oak
enough for a few negative reviews and anoyed posts
people go for the bad review or complain post before reading the fucking text
i then moved that text ingame
like in front of the goddamn face
still couldnt read it
wicked oak
no, it has to have a forced tutorial (with a skip button for the second time its played) and put the text basically in your face
wicked oak
not if the forced tutorial can be "speedruned" or skipped
but the skip option shouldnt be the default
and it shoudl check again like "do you want to skip the tutorial yes/no"
with the no selected
i havent coded a proper tutorial yet for DWVR but that is exactly what im going to do
wicked oak
never understimate player stupidity. There is a lot of people that just dont read anything at all
full junco
especially since a tutorial would explain stuff that might completely change in an update, and then I would have to redo the tutorial. wasted time
wicked oak
thats kind of what happened to my DWVR tutorial
the older one
it got broken over time
i know it sounds super asshole-ish, but damn the average player has no brain
and then you wonder why AAA gamedevs just simplify the shit out of stuff
and "streamline"
full junco
and if I do a tutorial I would want it to be good, so not walls of text but someone explaining you (audio) what to do.
wicked oak
we, the vocal people that read about games and watches reviews and tries to investigate, are a niche
too bad i cant really do that audio thing. But i want to keep the tutorial simple-ish
and being a VR game, with labels to the controllers
i still havent designed that new tutorial
full junco
some voice from nowhere is boring though, so you need some character that's explaining it for it to feel good I think
why can't you do the audio thing?
wicked oak
and im not english
becouse ill need many lenguages
im going to release for ps4 europe, thats at least 5 lenguages
trying to get all the spoken clips fine is super hard
at least with text is much cheaper and simpler
full junco
ah well my English isn't perfect, but when I can prepare for what to say it's quite fine I think
wicked oak
but i really cant
its bad, but ill have to create a simplified "tron" style level that explains the stuff in several "rooms" or similar
another thing i was planning is to only unlock weapons after you defeat their "challenge"
like a fireball is unlocked after you do a magic duel challenge with some AI
basically a survival against some enemies with only the fireball equipped
full junco
well the issue with audio is also that while you can reread text if you didn't understand something, that's way harder with audio
wicked oak
thats what im doing right now. I want a graph style progression that unlocks weapons and perks
current progress is all missions are data driven with data tables, and i store their completion state and scores
still need the graph and its UI
and unlocks
full junco
ok
wicked oak
i currently have a list
with a checkbox if the mission is won XD
my second biggest fail with DWVR was to not have progression
once the player played once , they had seen everything
see Sairento Vr with many many times more sales while they have worse core gameplay
and waaaaaay worse AI with less enemy types
full junco
hm
wicked oak
i thought the core gameplay and scores are enough, but turns out it isnt (save very special cases)
players want to feel they are getting better, unlocks help that. And with unlocks, people will try to get everything the game has
full junco
that gives you more playtime, but why should it give you more sales?
full junco
before they buy it they don't know if they can unlock stuff
and as long as the reviews don't mention it negatively...
wicked oak
yeah, but my stats say average playtime is 1 hour
its a spectacular disaster in that regard
no one that pays 10 dollas for a game they play 1 hour is going to talk good about it to others
full junco
does that average time include those that never even launched the game?
wicked oak
if you look at the clear direct competition that is Sairento, you see a much much higher average time
full junco
I agree you should make it so that people want to spend more time in it
an hour isn't much
I don't think you have any reviews that mention that in a bad way though?
wicked oak
i do have reviews that complain that the "content" is low
yet, check raw data at release, it had 2 maps. You can see sairento amount of maps as well
mighty carbon
I wonder if I should release my experience for free and then if people like it and there numbers behind it, add more content and release as paid version.
wicked oak
its not a bad idea. Specially for a mobile game
mobile games have huuuuge instal bases
i know a company that does cardboard games
getting good profit
and they do that
they allways do their games as a demo version, and then paid to unlock the rest
and the app shows as "free" o the lists
it just has a 5 dollar microtransaction that unlocks all the game
full junco
I also think demos can be quite good, especially for vr games
full junco
people can buy a game and refund it they don't like it, that is essentially the same like a demo, right?
full junco
just that many don't make use of that option I think
wicked oak
its allways useful to read the feedback people say on the refunds
for example i got a good bunch of refunds due to bad performance on their pcs (wich is logical)
full junco
it's not as easy for someone to decide to actually buy a game and pay even though he can refund it, compared to download a free demo
wicked oak
but a demo is super hard to get right
really, really, really hard
do a bad demo, its a bad game, lowers sales
do a good demo, people is fine with just the demo, lowers sales
you need to do a demo that is good enough to be interesting, but be very limited in content
its really hard to do that right
full junco
I think full game with play time limited to an hour or so is the best
wicked oak
thats why devs dont bother doing demos
no, thats not the best, really
you got the refund system for that
full junco
but people don't see the refund system that way
they still aren't really used to that it exists I think
glossy agate
wicked oak
yeah
Steam did the refund system becouse it gets more sales
and i can confirm that
if im not 100% sure about a game, i can just buy it
if i really dislike it, ill refund it
but a lot of the time, people just keep the game
glossy agate
Local GameStop sells vive now. Girl says they aren't selling very well though haha
wicked oak
if the person isnt sure, then he wont buy the game
but if you have a generous refund
that unsure person can "try" the game
and most of the time, he will keep it
full junco
yes
full junco
but for many people buying and paying if they aren't sure is still a hurdle
glossy agate
My demo was only a portion of the mechanics and really basic. The users ended up messaging me some good ideas I put in the final game. Like the grappling hook.
wicked oak
people say what is the issue
full junco
it's just not natural to buy something if you aren't even sure you want to keep it
wicked oak
on the refunds
so you get the stats
around 70% of the refunds are technical/error
30% are that people just say they didnt like the game
full junco
free testing is much lower hurdle than paying with the option to get money back
wicked oak
yup
full junco
so that's why I think a demo with limited playtime might be quite good
wicked oak
the thing is that my game is not a story game
its a game based on repeating its core mechanics
of the gunplay
full junco
only issue I see is that players lose their progress of the demo after they decide to buy it
wicked oak
so a demo user just wont need to buy the game
at all
unless i do a highly gimped version
glossy agate
Or use a teaser mechanic, then upswell with additional mechanics
full junco
if he can only play a few minutes in the demo he has to buy it if he likes it
he saw everything, but he can't continue having fun with it unless he buys it
glossy agate
One user put in over 9 hours on my demo haha.
wicked oak
can steam do timed demos?
full junco
interesting question
I thought more about hosting it on some other place, independent from steam
wicked oak
why not? more places more views more sales
ill end up putting DWVR on itch.io
probably
once i check a few things about itch.io
full junco
and implementing a timed demo might not be completely trivial
have to make sure player can't just delete a file to reset time
not sure how to do that in a good way
wicked oak
and its horrible for players
to be fair its one hella easy server
call to server, get game time for user X
returns gametime
but has too many issues if you want it right
easily hackeable
you are better just putting the game on skydrow.com yourself...
full junco
I don't think that's an issue
wicked oak
but it might make people highly annoyed
full junco
yes, that's an issue
not sure how to do it in a not annoying way
minecraft has a timed demo
90 minutes I think
wicked oak
but minecraft is a huge timewaster of a game...
full junco
I used that when I tested vivecraft
wicked oak
how do you set vivecraft?
i might play it soon
it works with the normal minecraft, no?
oculus version is for win10 version
wich has no mod
full junco
download and install all the vivecraft stuff, it adds a profile to the minecraft launcher
doesn't work with cracked minecraft, only with regular one
full junco
I didn't want to play vivecraft for more than 10 minutes, so the minecraft demo was completely enough
and it's a nice way to make a demo
if steam would have a timed demo option included where steam would make sure with their drm that the time is limited that would be great
maybe they have, I don't know
wicked oak
i might do a demo of the dungeon crawler
if i end up taking it as my next serious project
but more about marketing
like a free early access version with only 1 dungeon type
full junco
well such demos are harder to do since you have to decide what to include
wicked oak
but only for a couple days or similar
i cant handle the server cost for a bunch of free players
full junco
well then put the demo on steam
wicked oak
the game is online, needs cloud servers
wicked oak
even if the dungeon runs themselves are played hosted, the lobbies would be dedicated servers on public lobbies
the game is already in steam lol
you know steam just sends keys to vr devs like candy
i got 3 of them
my pillars for the game are Social, Dungeoning, and Loot
full junco
what do you mean?
full junco
and you got 3 of what?
full junco
well an appid is something different than the key for a game? lol
glossy agate
Social is really good. Everyone really likes mp in vr
Coop games like serious Sam are crazy fun when you get like 6 people playing together.
And az sunshine horde mode
wicked oak
thats the thing
im on the way to have the best combat gameplay of vr rpgs/dungeoncrawlers
wich also works fine cooperative
the hard part is getting the levels feeling good, and some enemy variety
glossy agate
Yeah, if you manage to figure out how to do drop in coop, that would be awesome too
wicked oak
not sure, i want to keep the dungeoning to not be too long
glossy agate
cuts down on wait time. Like AZ sunshine, if you don't invote people you wait for like 30 min.
wicked oak
like 10-15 mins per floor
beetween flors maybe people can join
i do want to have a lobby where players hang out
glossy agate
Seriouse sam though, you can start a game, and people will jump in and out throughout it
glossy agate
Nice, thats gonna be really cool
wicked oak
an issue is how the hell do i make it work for psvr
if i dont find a way ill have to do a different type of game, or core gameplay
glossy agate
Have to have snap turns haha, and maybe seated compatable somehow
wicked oak
yes
but its about the movement
i could do like dwvr and have teleporitng
but i want the smoother movement, with option to do steps
makes melee combat far more intersting
glossy agate
You can take my movement that takes pitch of controller to set speed. Hold trigger to activate or something
wicked oak
keep in mind psvr has no joysticks
it only has them if you use the dualshock or the coming AIM controller
but then the game would need guns, be scifi
same tech of a coop dungeon crawler with a socal lobby, but scifi themed instead of fantasy
like what rec room is doing with the 2 different Quests
it would go from Diablo vr to Destiny/warframe VR XD
glossy agate
Yeah the rec room one is pretty fun. Can PSVR pick up on controller pitch? Mine just takes the controller and basically makes it "the" joystick. Could work to make up for lack of buttons
glossy agate
Move through time as you play like civilization?
glossy agate
When you said diable to destiny to warframe.
Thought you meant start out with primitive tech, then as you move along the tech gets upgraded to sci fi
wicked oak
nope, not feasible
glossy agate
Would be cool, but a whole shit ton of work
wicked oak
how do you sync players?
this is a social coop game
a stone age player with a decked up space marine?
glossy agate
Haha, true. Skyrim guy fighting next to master chief
wicked oak
fantasy gives me magic and kickass melee combat
scifi gives me enemies that all go ranged, and would be much more cover based
as players and enemies have guns
glossy agate
You could go primitive, but give people muskets they have to load manually with the push stick haha. Would be hilarious in stressful spots
wicked oak
uhmmm, steampunk
glossy agate
Dump in powder ect
little nacelle
Hi guys, just a little poll :
Who feel motion sickness with thumbstick movements in VR?
glossy agate
yeah, art style is still open for VR right now. Everyone goes super future or medieval
full junco
@little nacelle I can do it for 3 seconds and then I notice I'm not feeling well
wicked oak
Onward is different from serious sam VR and from @glossy agate game
glossy agate
thumbstick hasn't bothered me much.
the thing I see people complain about is unpredictability, ie trying to go straight, but running diagonally. It can cause sickness
full junco
even thinking about it makes me feel motion sickness @glossy agate
wicked oak
half life vr on the DK2
glossy agate
you can fix that but doing just 4 way or 2 way moves, and having it all relative to forward vector of controller
little nacelle
@full junco Even with a car game?
@glossy agate Me neither, I really like the sensation to move in VR somehow.
full junco
@little nacelle I have not played any car game in VR
glossy agate
Try it man! Got the double jumps in there. I used the grids ect to keep contextualization and hopefully reduce sickness
little nacelle
@full junco You should try, it feels cool to be on a car in VR. Euro truck is a cool experience for example.
@glossy agate I didn't really get the unpredictability thing?
glossy agate
havnt tried car either. I tried flying games and those were fine for me
full junco
@little nacelle I have in general not played any seated VR game
any velocity in Z makes me feel motion sickness immediately
glossy agate
@little nacelle its when people expect to go one way, but it moves a different way. With car sickness, if people cant expect which way to go ie sitting in the back it can cause sickness. If you can use a lot of visual cues to establish movement though sickness should be reduced
full junco
theres nothing worse than free fall in VR
glossy agate
and good mechanics help establish the predictability
little nacelle
@glossy agate Okay I see. With a car game, the trigger is to accelerate, that way people won't find it undpredictable if they go forward right? And the left and right axis for the wheel turning direction as well.
glossy agate
Yeah, it's super linear so it's usually fine
glossy agate
Exactly
little nacelle
@full junco I love to fall in VR, I love every extreme sensation in VR but not in real life, that could sound weird
full junco
a bit strange, yeah 😄
little nacelle
Yeah that's true I was thinking about it also, It's like it's normal to have a controller making something move that you are actually inside of
@full junco In real life I feel like I could really die! In VR in the worst case I'll throw up 😄
full junco
hm
its annoying that the steamvr splashscreen doesnt work with videos, but I got it working pretty much I think, manually
with updating it manually from a seperate thread, so not very safe 😄
do most games use steamvrs splash screen for loading screens in VR?
well I guess many VR games dont have much loading going on
little nacelle
hmm no I don't think, they use their own splash screen.
full junco
@little nacelle what you mean with their own?
when I say "steamvr splash screen" I mean putting your own image/video into steamvrs splashscreen functionality
opal bobcat
@full junco i have loading but i havent quite figured out how to darken the screen for it
full junco
ok, but just having a dark screen is a bit boring
opal bobcat
what would you rather see?
full junco
a loading screen, most ideal a 360 video thats played
opal bobcat
so what would the 360 video be?
i have my loading during gameplay
so its not really like a start of level loading screen
full junco
well I talk about start of a new level loading screen
opal bobcat
i dont think i'd want to break a user out of the immersion, and that playing a 360 video would
full junco
just the loading screen thats displayed when the player has to wait for 20 seconds where no game exists
opal bobcat
yeah but im talking about content wise, what would you put there
cuz i could think a lot of people want to put ads there
and that would be worse than just dark
opal bobcat
yeah, im not making a game
opal bobcat
i guess thats one of the main differences
full junco
I asked about games, why do you even say anything if at the end you just say it doesn't matter since you dont make a game 😛
full junco
ah
opal bobcat
i have an interest in the topic though
because i have not implimented the feature yet
and there can be some significant waittime if the user selects a lot of packets to create
maybe people expect a 360 video
maybe some people have a fear of the dark
maybe i should make it grey
full junco
maybe maybe
vocal maple
Imagine having a google adsense plugin for unreal engine that will allow you to put 360 degrees google ads into your loading screen. With sounds and interactivity like shit from the advertisement coming at your face. Now that would be terrible...
opal bobcat
you called it
even a flat 2d surface in vr playing an ad with sound would be terribled
vocal maple
I wonder why nobody got the idea to make ad banners in game actual ad banners. Like if in Gta or Need For Speed the banners on the streets were pulled from an ad server
tired tree
people have had that idea already
full junco
you dont need extra ad servers, but isn't EA paid for the ads that appear in games like FIFA?
vocal maple
FIFA ads made sense though and were related to football/soccer. They were like the ads you would see watching an actual match. I'm talking ads being pulled from google adsense or something and dynamically updating in game
mighty carbon
Ads in VR games?
vocal maple
Yeah. Would be terrible, won't it lol?
I think that it is a possibilty though because VR is somewhere between mobile and desktop right now. If it swings more to the mobile side then ads will become accepted
mighty carbon
Depends on the game
It might work in some games
Won't work in fantasy settings though :p
wicked oak
they do have paid ads in need for speed
since forever
macdonalnds banners around and stuff
those are paid
mighty carbon
Yeah
Well, a game needs to be popular and have a fitting theme in order for agencies to place ads.
VR games don't reach that kind of audience size yet
wicked oak
no they dont
mobile vr can
but pc vr has too few players for adverts to be useful
there are like 300.000 Vive users around
similar or less numbers for oculus
lets say half a million
a normal number is 1 dollar per 1000 impressions
if EVERYONE WITH A HEADSET looks at the ads
you get
500 dollas
full junco
in january tim sweeney said vive sold twice as much as rift, so with 300k vives there would only be 150k rifts
I think its more
0.24% of active steam users that participate in their survey have a rift or vive
in 2015 there were 125 million active Steam users
so not its probably more than 200 million
200 million * 0.0024 = 480,000
well that would fit 300k vives and 150k rifts....
ah no, its 0.24% vive and 0.13% rift
so 480k vives and 260k rifts
that sounds better 😄
full junco
well some people do have a vive and a rift, so those are counted twice in my calculation
so there are not 480k + 260k individual users that might buy a game
maybe 30k have both rift and vive
mighty carbon
So what's the pool of Vive/Rift owners to the date?
full junco
@mighty carbon hm? what are you asking?
mighty carbon
30k people who would potentially purchase VR app is a very low number
full junco
I said 480k vive + 260k rift
mighty carbon
I thought you said "not"
full junco
I said those 480k + 260k are not individual users, some people might have bought both vive and rift
so you can't say there are 740k people who might buy your game
I would guess more like 710k
mighty carbon
Or more like 500k
mighty carbon
Just to be on the conservative side
Not both
I am talking about people who has VR system (they can have all 3). I guess it would be better to count VR households
full junco
but if you say 500k that would mean 240k people are owning both vive and rift
and thats too much
its mostly devs who own both
mighty carbon
There are 61k of people who bought Raw Data (conservative number)
full junco
yeah, I didn't buy it. I haven't bought any VR game.
I dont think raw data is a "mainstream" game that has a huge target audience
61k makes sense
especially since its really expensive for a VR game
full junco
not everyone likes every game, even if its a good one
its hard for any game to reach more than 15% of all people that have the hardware to run it
even if its a really good game
people have different taste
mighty carbon
InMind VR has ~230k owners, but that's a free game
full junco
free games are easy to download even if you already know you likely wont like it, yeah
mighty carbon
So it's safe to say that 70k is your target number for a paid VR game
full junco
well, no, not if you think your game has a bigger target audience than a game like raw data or Vanishing Realms
if its a similar game, then yes
mighty carbon
If you can match quality of Vanishing Realms and Raw Data and make it more interesting, you might even get all 70k units sold.
Well, those are the top sellers
So if your game isn't in line with top sellers, I expect it will sell less copies
That's only Steam data. There is no way to see Oculus Store data.
Either way, realistically, I'd say if you are lucky, 10k and below is what you can expect to sell in VR field nowadays.
So $10 x 5k = $50k gross at best (going optimistic here)
If your project is 6 month in dev and you are alone developing it, it's a good side income. Can pay off your car or get going with a house.
(That's if game dev is a side gig and you have a day job)
full junco
you also can do things like patreon
mighty carbon
That's not a sustainable business model
mighty carbon
Well, the idea is to generate residual income. You make game, release it, it sells, you work on next one, etc.
With Patreon it doesn't work that way
full junco
if a game would generate enough income so that you can work on it forever, that would be nice
and if it doesnt, you can move to the next
mighty carbon
So you end up doing more work that isn't even game dev to get paid. As soon as you stop - money stop coming.
full junco
what do you mean with "doing more work that isn't even game dev"?
mighty carbon
With Patreon
full junco
but what "work that isn't even game dev"?
mighty carbon
Exactly what I said
full junco
you didnt say what work you talk about
full junco
they pay for you being able to make the game better
you dont need to do any extra "community work"
mighty carbon
That's not what Patreon is about
full junco
many people use it that way
a youtuber that makes money through patreon also doesnt need extra community work, people pay for him to do youtube videos
extra community work might help, but it isnt needed
silver brook
Hey guys in VR with the vive when I go to grab something like a faucet handle the handle is like rubber banding, I pull it back and then it just flings back into place on release, how can I fix this?
opal bobcat
umm well change the position of it when you grab it?
opal bobcat
or the rotation maybe
scenic slate
Hey! Any idea how to mirror the Oculus Rift screen to monitor, show it only shows one picture? Not two pictures side by side?
scenic slate
Yes.. i only want one.. For creating a video
scenic slate
yeah.. But they look like they are like opal or something
opal bobcat
i beleive the reason that there're two is that that is what is being sent to the rift
opal?
scenic slate
yeah.. round.. So if i cut it, it still doesn't seem quite right. Some parts are kinda cut out :S
opal bobcat
yes
thats the distortion required for the optix
optics
its been applied to the picture because that is the image being sent to the rift/vive
scenic slate
So.. My best bet is just to video edit it out
opal bobcat
yes, you cant have it render a non-distorted output if you want it to work with the rift
if the software has a non vr version
you can do that
scenic slate
Yeah.. i recall that every SteamVR games are showing "normally" on screen
opal bobcat
yeah i havent seen any ue4 titles that do that, but they could certainly be out there
glossy agate
Its possible, I have seen lots of people make it work. Im not sure how exactly because Im on Vive, but for me I adjusted settings in Editor preferences > Play
To get full screen
full junco
can't you just do "hmd mirror 1" on rift too?
or 0 or 2
dont know which one shows one eye
I think rift also has 3
glossy agate
What I still need to figure out is how to get rid of the black bars on vive. Only solutions I can find require modifying code, and Im worried Ill just end up breaking something while trying that
full junco
well you can always undo it
glossy agate
Yeah I may have to give it shot to make a decent trailer.
full junco
just read a nice quote from tim tweeney:
"It's fairly interesting to see that there are 5 million GearVR on the market and only half a million PC VR headsets, but on PC-VR 10 times more games were sold."
@mighty carbon a quote for you
glossy agate
Wondering if anyone here has found stats for regional game sales on vr i.e. Us vs Chinese sales numbers?
I want to make a Chinese localized version, but I have no idea on pricing methods ect for the Asian market.
wicked oak
to be fairpc games are much better
and if you spend 800 dollars on a headset, you buy games
rustic nest
I encountered a problem with the template VR project. The Pickupcube has the static mesh as the root component but i want to move the cube so i made new BP put a scene component as the root and copied the pickup cube BP but the pickup doesnt work unless physics is disabled or if i put the mesh as the root.
how can i fix this?
pearl tangle
it only works with that method if the static mesh is the root, it wont pick up a scene object
is anybody else at the unreal open day today?\
rustic nest
but the problem with having it as the root is that i cant move the component. I want to attach it to the hands in a certain way but it always attaches the from the center. is there any other method of attaching but from a different point?
pearl tangle
change the attachment to be a socket point on there rather than 0,0,0?
inner nest
Any ideas as to why Roborecall crashes on startup with a FilenameToLongPackageName error?
mighty carbon
so, I finally tried Rift (without Touch for now)
was not blown away unfortunately
I don't know if that because I've spent a lot of time in Gear VR and the concept of VR isn't new to me or because I haven't tried good stuff yet
positional tracking is cool, but not something you can't live without (depends on how you design app for VR)
screen is kinda dull compare to Gear VR
godrays and SDE didn't bother me at all. In fact I didn't even pay attention to it until I started looking for both.
Resolution feels on par with Gear VR, especially in UE4 based projects
while FOV is larger, I can still easily see the black borders.
sweet spot is massive compare to Gear VR and that's what makes Rift feels like it has much larger FOV
lack on content is clearly noticeable
I wanted to just try some passive experiences - there are only a few that caught my eye
Gotta see what's on Steam next
full junco
well VR without motion controllers is just missing a lot
I get that its probably not that different to gearvr then
mighty carbon
yeah, but I just got home.. Wanted to do a quick setup. I need to move furniture around to get more space to swing my arms with controllers 😛
It's undeniably better than Gear VR, but not that better
I guess when I try stuff with more complex visuals and interactions, I can tell more.
full junco
what have you tried?
mighty carbon
faint colors just suck
blacks aren't blacks and everything so less vivid than on Gear VR
full junco
hm, why are blacks not black?
mighty carbon
I don't know if there are some settings I need to mess with, but it's just unimpressive
because they aren't deep blacks
they are gray'ish
full junco
I dont have a rift, only a vive, and there black is as black as it gets, can't get blacker
mighty carbon
like brightness was cranked up and contrast was lowered
full junco
have never read that theres a difference between vive and rift there
mighty carbon
btw, cable didn't bother me a bit
full junco
both use OLED panels where you can have perfect blacks as far as I know
mighty carbon
sound was really awesome
full junco
what games have you played?
mighty carbon
I tried Ghost on the Shell (same crap as in Gear VR just rendered real-time), Lost and Showdown
no other free stuff felt worth trying (stuff that didn't require Touch)
Wanted to try Farlands - didn't see it in the store
also notices that Gear VR store is a bit better than Rift one
(and has voice search which is awesome)
I need to google what's cool free stuff is available on Rift, I might just overlooked small gems
full junco
can you play the lab on the rift?
mighty carbon
lab?
Anything that is on Steam should be theoretically playable on Rift
I haven't had a chance to dig into Steam library yet
and I want something that doesn't need Touch controllers.
I know motion controllers add a lot to immersion, but I want to experience VR without it for now
mighty carbon
because like I said, I need to make room for it
you always come up with dumb comparisons
full junco
I get that, but you said you "want" to experience it without motion controllers for now, so I thought you meant something else here
mighty carbon
lack of motion controllers doesn't take away from VR experience for passive experiences
in fact, controllers add nothing to it
it's more critical for games
active, interactive experiences
full junco
even if you dont do anything with them, just seeing your hands alone helps
mighty carbon
help with what ?
full junco
immersion
mighty carbon
I feel pretty immersed as is
full junco
you feel more "part of the world" if you see that your hands are in the world
glossy agate
When you get the motion controllers going hit me up if want to coop az sunshine, serious Sam, or onward.
Have a few other people I play with a lot, it's pretty fun
pearl tangle
@mighty carbon bit off proof that vive is doing way better in sales, just caught some inside knowledge that oculus has only sold 50k touch controllers so far. So if you are developing for that then don't expect many sales at all really
full junco
@pearl tangle wow, you're confident that number is correct?
maybe its a few months old? now that touch is so cheap I would have thought it sold quite well
pearl tangle
Yep very confident
Its good that it's now bundled so everybody that buys the rift has to get the touch at least but for now seems like about 50% of rift owners got the touch
full junco
there should be much more than 100k rifts
more like 200k
steam stats show roughly 260k rifts
glossy agate
Yeah, that's super low! Crazy. With the touch I guess people have to setup the extra sensor too for a full experience. Maybe people just don't want to go through the trouble after already spending a lot
full junco
well the numbers definitely show me that I'm quite fine with ignoring the rift as a platform for now and only focus on the vive
mighty carbon
well, as you might expect early adopters already got what they wanted
I don't see how they want to sell anything without PR and ads
and clever PR
they want VR to be in masses, then we need Walmart presence, Target presence, big ass billboards all over the place
but
since there is no content, there is no point in advertising VR
I wouldn't buy Vive.. Too expensive.
full junco
until recently price was same like rift
mighty carbon
$500 is what Rift + Touch (360 deg setup) should cost. And there should hardware bundles offered by major PC builders.
pearl tangle
Price difference isn't that much. Like $150 or less by the time you buy the third sensor
sturdy coral
If I had bought my rift even at the new price it would have been more expensive than a vive after buying all the usb shit I've needed since I have an old motherboard
mighty carbon
for an average consumer $150 makes a lot of difference
pearl tangle
Isn't it $500 for rift and touch and then another $50 for the third sensor
mighty carbon
$595
pearl tangle
So $105 difference then?
mighty carbon
I am saying whole enchilada should be $499 in order to be sellable
Vive + Audio strap
not just Vive, since it has no headphones
full junco
you sure have headphones
pearl tangle
Well vive is more expensive but still selling a lot more so people that are early adopters obviously don't care much about that price difference. It comes with earbuds
full junco
you dont know if vive is selling more since rift became cheaper
I think rift is selling more recently after it became cheaper
steam says last month rift grew by 0.02% and vive grew by 0.01%
mighty carbon
Vive is not selling more
it sold more
past tense
and it sold more most likely due to controllers bundled with HMD
full junco
now those percentages could also mean that vive grew by 0.0149% and rift grew by 0.0151%
mighty carbon
nowadays it make zero sense to buy Vive
mighty carbon
Rift is cheaper and requires less powerful PC
sturdy coral
we do have one official number on touch
mighty carbon
better how? I have 1 sensor right now and I don't have any issues whatsoever
butter-smooth tracking
full junco
@mighty carbon you didnt even use the motion controllers yet lol
so you cant judge the tracking
sturdy coral
nate said in an interview with tested that it has a higher attachment rate than mario 64
mighty carbon
I mean, head tracking
full junco
head tracking is so simple, that doesnt matter
mighty carbon
it does
people who want to get into VR for passive experiences and not gaming controllers don't matter
and I can assure you that casual folks are not going to play Robo Recall
nor people have enough room for room scale experience
sturdy coral
mario 64 had about a 30% attach rate
mighty carbon
especially outside of US
mighty carbon
(in EU / Asia people live in small apartments)
full junco
try that stuff in the gif with a rift 😛
mighty carbon
believe it or not, when people grow up and have kids/day job, they don't have enough time to play games. So short relaxing otherwordly experiences work much better than games.
sturdy coral
rift still doesn't have a way for youtubers to film tracked mixed reality
without buying a second headset
mighty carbon
how come ?
sturdy coral
there is no way to play the game and track the camera
glossy agate
Does he have a chin strap, how did it stay on his head? Haha. I've punched my walls too many times throwing grenades.
Can't do that fancy parkor shit
full junco
@glossy agate what are you talking about?
glossy agate
The gif of the guy doing a backflip
full junco
ah
why should it not stay on his head?
he also has the tpcast on his head, I guess that adds extra stability
glossy agate
For me just bending over for stuff on the ground slides the headset a little bit
Ah, tru, just noticed no wires
Watching it again I think he does have a chinstrap actually.
sturdy coral
hah yeah looks like he does, never noticed that
mighty carbon
is there a way to build same project for Windows and Android and have appropriate project settings for each platform?
sturdy coral
I think you may have to do a little scripting
or there may be a way in the ini override syntax, I'm not sure how all that stuff works
where it has like - lines and + lines
mighty carbon
I use BP and I am sure there is a selector node for HMD
sturdy coral
yeah there is
mighty carbon
I am talking about project rendering settings and stuff like that
sturdy coral
thought you were asking about project settings though
mighty carbon
I am not aware of any scripting for project settings :/
sturdy coral
you'd have to write it; you can manually run the packaging stuff outside of the editor
and swap out the inis
but there may be a way with the override syntax you see sometimes
to leave it all in one ini
mighty carbon
sounds like a royal pita 😦
pearl tangle
You just export the settings then import them
And also vive is still outselling rift by a lot. 0.02% of 100k and 0.01% of 200k seem like pretty similar numbers to me. And also a huge proportion of vives sold don't use steam, they use viveport
I'd say a lot of rift owners also don't use steam
mighty carbon
who buys Vive? Businesses? That's not going to last long.
pearl tangle
Consumers are buying it. At 2-3x the rate of them buying the rift