virtual-reality

[simple cypress]

@mighty carbon an exaggeration of me, I should've said " 100000$ and a twinkie " to make that more obvious

It was a bit random indeed

[trim flower]

Hey ALl,

so I was wondering if anyone knows how to make a VR character run around a plantet-like sphere with gravity

I'm trying to make something like Mario Galaxy, but can't figure out the gravity to make the VR orientation change and stick to the planet

[sturdy coral]

@mighty carbon ah, that sucks. and I guess the oculus branch doesn't have the monoscopic stuff you are having a problem with yet?

[sturdy coral]

oh n/m I didn't realize monoscopic was in 4.15

[full junco]

@trim flower you'll probably have to rotate the character for that

or the sphere

[fleet veldt]

@trim flower check this out https://forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?57376-Dynamic-gravity-for-characters

[real needle]

so what exactly

does "VR ready" mean

lmfao

how does it differ

isnt vr basically the same as pc, but with two screens monuted to your face

and a different controller?

is there really any difference?

[wise thunder]

Do you mean as in the rating Steam gives you?

It's not a hard "ready" or anything, I guess it's just an indicator of how well you'll run it

[real needle]

no im just talking about how some people say "this asset is vr ready"

i feel like

its just a scam tactic

[wise thunder]

Ohhh

[real needle]

lmao

[wise thunder]

I have no idea

[real needle]

how is something vr ready

[wise thunder]

😛

[real needle]

like is there even a difference?

its probably like the polycount

or something

[wise thunder]

Possibly, I really have no idea though hahah

[real needle]

do you have a vr headset/

[wise thunder]

I have a Vive and some random $20 android one, I use one a little more than the other 😛

[real needle]

oh

lol

[zinc violet]

@real needle technically, asset could be designed VR in mind, and it could have a big difference then

but I wouldn't trust that people who sell "VR-ready" assets have gone actually that far

but in practise that would mean, less complex materials, less drawcalls, polygons optimized where player would see them in VR, no shader tricks that break in VR where you can actually see the depth etc

so, there really is a difference if asset has been designed specifically for VR use

[real needle]

hmm

ok

thats what i thoughtr

lol

[trim flower]

@fleet veldt Thanks Tmek! but this seems only to be in C++. Do you know if there is a blueprint solution for dynamic gravity with a VR character?

[sharp swan]

VR REady assets? Oh I didn't know they finalised the asset requirements for VR yet 😄

[real needle]

@trim flower For a simple solution (in BPs) you can just do a look at the center of the "planet" (sphere) and add force in that direction

I believe you'd want to turn off gravity on the pawn though

[wicked oak]

there is a video around there of how mario gravity works

on the planets

it basically works by a downwards raycast, plus a few other things like distance

[sharp swan]

I know there was a custom gravity plugin made for UE4 about 6 months or so after it released. Not sure if it was updated but it had a good setup

[trim flower]

Thanks everyone!

I'll check those out

[real needle]

@trim flower What size of a planet are you planning to do? I'd be interested to see if it would cause motion sickness since the player will be "sliding" in a constant downwards curve

[trim flower]

Not too big almost like the size of Mario Galaxy.

[glossy agate]

Tried using some cube renders for my level select area. Similar to how "the lab" has it setup. Just single static renders so its still pretty performant. https://youtu.be/ikjGZn4p_WU

[wicked oak]

@glossy agate that is really cool

[glossy agate]

Thanks man!

[mighty carbon]

nice stuff @glossy agate

Meanwhile I am making some progress too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5roBMncLHc

I also added a subtle camera shake and it works really well - no discomfort at all

[glossy agate]

Nice man! And that giant ship looks really cool

[wicked oak]

pretty cool @mighty carbon

[mighty carbon]

thx 😊

although it feels much better in VR with sound

[mighty carbon]

http://www.roadtovr.com/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1050-ti-oculus-minimum-specification-virtual-reality/

bam! Oculus VR just got a way more accessible than HTC's

[fresh laurel]

😮

[full junco]

@mighty carbon you are wrong, its same accessible like before

[pearl tangle]

minimum spec doesn't matter much with the hardware. it's the software that people make for it thats the important thing and most people aren't targetting that low level hardware

[full junco]

its like saying "UE4 just go way more accessible" just because they updated a value in the docs 😛

[mighty carbon]

@full junco no, it's cheaper now

[full junco]

@mighty carbon no, its same cheap like before

you could use a 1050 ti with it before and you can now, no difference

[mighty carbon]

now you can build PC with 1050Ti and get Rift for less money

before 1050Ti wasn't in the min specs, or was it? (I don't remember by now)

[full junco]

thats just a value, no one cares about that

[mighty carbon]

@pearl tangle well, now people can build VR apps / games with 1050Ti in mind

I know you don't @full junco

[pearl tangle]

they could have been doing that for ages. nothing was stopping them from doing that

[full junco]

yeah

[mighty carbon]

but they don't

it seems like everyone makes stuff for 1070/1080

[full junco]

and it will stay like that

[mighty carbon]

that's dumb

[full junco]

no, someone who can't afford a good GPU likely also can't afford a rift or vive, so doesn't matter

if rift or vive would be $200 then it would matter

[mighty carbon]

eeh, a lot of people have 1050Ti in their existing system. All they need is Rift

so, $600 vs 1070 + Rift

[full junco]

and I think ASW doesn't work that well for roomscale stuff, right?

[mighty carbon]

I don't know what planet you are from, for the former is more affordable for many people

you don't need room scale for VR

it's an extra

a bonus

[full junco]

yeah, just like motion controllers are a "bonus"

or like GPUs are a bonus, you can also render on the CPU 😛

[mighty carbon]

motion controls is like mouse for non-VR

room scale is like flight stick or steering wheel - certain games are better with it, but it's not necessary

[full junco]

I've never played any non roomscale VR game and I also don't want to

[mighty carbon]

GPU been around for a loooong time. Intel has GPUs built into CPU. So, no, your analogies are retarded

[full junco]

there was a time when GPUs were new

[mighty carbon]

you are not representing masses, you are niche

[full junco]

yeah, thats what VR is

[mighty carbon]

exactly, and at that time Quake and Unreal has software renderers. So people with access and money to GPUs could enjoy GPU rendered Quake and Unreal, and the rest of us still used software renderers.

and it will remain niche if devs don't get their heads out of their asses and begin making their stuff for 1050Ti

[full junco]

then then just do it 😛

dont say other devs should do it

[mighty carbon]

I intend to

I don't know if you don't understand business side of it, or just being an ass, but you contribute to slow growth and potential demise of VR with that mentality of yours

[pearl tangle]

it's hard enough to get decent quality VR stuff going with a 1080, and the 1080 is already last generation hardware. I would not expect much stuff out at the moment would manage to run on a 1050 at something playable. I don't know how good their different space warp stuff is with running things at 45fps constantly but I think next generation hardware for the headsets and software updates will make it that we can do better quality in VR than we can on a regular screen. But it's not going to happen this year

[full junco]

yeah

I already spent months just with optimizing everything as much as possible, so now it runs pretty good on my r9 390 which equals a gtx 970

I always have the missed frames counter from steamvr enabled, and there are none

resolution often isn't too high though, probably goes down to something like 90% depending on what you're looking at, and together with TAA that looks quite low res

but someone with a 1080 ti will probably always see a resolution of at least 150%, so everything will look great

and I will keep it vive only in the near future, so I don't even have to think about supporting any low tech stuff that oculus supports

[pearl tangle]

just gotta put the advise on your minimum specs. If the oculus store tries to enforce that it will run on a 1050 then that would be very annoying. but at least on steam you can just put your minimum and recommended specs

[full junco]

yeah

my GPU is min spec so I'm 100% sure that it runs completely fine on min spec

I would love to actually play my game on a 1080 ti though

especially when showing it to other people locally it's a bit annoying to only be able to show how it looks like on min spec

[drifting verge]

https://gfycat.com/ThreadbareShamelessAmericancicada anyone else doing bungee type setup w/ vive ?

(discord plays that really fuckin' fast)

[full junco]

@Litruv its played too fast everywhere

[opal bobcat]

anyone know a good app to make like a youtube video

of project output when your project is on the oculus

i need to make a video

[full junco]

@opal bobcat you mean a video editing software?

[opal bobcat]

no

i mean like something capable of capturing some sort of usable output

from my project

like what do most people use when they make tutorial videos

[full junco]

obs

[opal bobcat]

thanks

ok NOW i need some video editing software 😛

[drifting verge]

@full junco seems to play it slowly in firefox shrugs

[scenic mason]

<.< that Bungie setup is awesome. Wish I would have thought of that. LOLZ

Need more cord for that to work.

[pearl tangle]

you can buy those things off amazon

you do it with 2 points on there works a bit better, it's getting the tension right thats the tricky part so it's not lifting off when you bend down

[scenic mason]

hmm Nods

[pearl tangle]

You can try it with a retractable dog leash actually

[jaunty shell]

Good morning gents and ladies

[jaunty shell]

Found why there was such a cpu overhead on my current project, way too much dynamic entities affected by dynamic lighting. Unchecking "cast shadows" reduced cpu ms by half.

[pearl tangle]

should pretty much avoid dynamic lights with VR

[raven halo]

You can use plenty of dynamic lights. Dynamic shadows on the other hand...

[jaunty shell]

draming of the day we can use plenty of dynamic shadowed lights without much performance loss

[wicked oak]

even dynamic lights utterly destroy performance on my endd

i had to remove the shadowless light from some particles, becouse when the fireball was trown, its light "only one" could take like 2 ms

[sturdy coral]

@wicked oak I don't know what is up with unshadowed particle light performance, a regular unshadowed dynamic point light doesn't kill performance nearly as bad

[wicked oak]

might be related, i should make more tests.

but damn, it utterly murdered performance to have a orange light on my fireball

that its in my hand

becouse it was almost completely fullscreen

[sturdy coral]

yeah I guess small radius ones are a lot cheaper and that is hard to do in first person without covering a ton of the screen

like muzzle flashes and stuff

[wicked oak]

and then you can do 2 fireballs, one per hand

so its now 2 fullscreen lights

still shouldnt be as goddamn expensive

[wicked oak]

creating a reflex sight by raytracing a sphere in the material

cool shit

and its a really simple material

its VR so i need an actual reflex sight that is view independent

this is the material

with a blue background instead of being fully transparent

[sturdy coral]

cool I've wanted to do that but didn't know there was a node for it. right now I have just used tom looman's thing which uses parallax http://www.tomlooman.com/holographic-weaponsight-using-bumpoffset/

I ended up using masked because of problems with other refractive transparency in the scene

[wicked oak]

damn thats really cool

that seems a better way to do it, more custom

than just drawing a raycraced sphere XD

[sturdy coral]

yeah, big advantage over the sphere is you can do lots of different crosshairs

and do hit reactions in the crosshair and stuff

[wicked oak]

the sphere is just that

a sphere

i think ill leave it as that for simplcity

but ill bookmark that

in case i need more complex sights

isnt bump offset much more complicated and can have artifacts?

[lunar jolt]

you can do everyshape with raytrace anyway ^^

but this method is very nice ^^

[little nacelle]

Hi guys, I'm ecoutering difficulties to build for htc vive, I've started from a blank project, created a little pawn with a camera, a little map, and when I play in VR in the editor everything works well.
But when I create a package .exe and run it, it doesn't lauch in VR mode. Do I have something to do before the build? Or is there a hotkey to pass into VR mode once the game is running?

[jaunty shell]

add "stereo on" in an "execute console command" node on your level blueprint 😃

[lunar jolt]

+1

[jaunty shell]

Anyone got some directions for a tilt brush like 3D painting tool in UE4 ? Doesn't have to be as complex, I just need to draw stuff in 3D easily

[lunar jolt]

I think that you have to create your mesh generation

[jaunty shell]

Damn

[lunar jolt]

With this node : https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/BlueprintAPI/Components/ProceduralMesh/CreateMeshSection/index.html

Hope that you know blueprint little bit ?

[jaunty shell]

Yeah I do, but I tried a few times to do some ProcMesh things without really good results

[lunar jolt]

humm :/

honneslty it's not that hard when you understand the system

[jaunty shell]

ohwell I've found what to work on this afternoon then !

[lunar jolt]

but if you want to prototype it

maybe use the particle systeme ribbon

You create the Particle when you press the trigger and when you release it, deattach it

And GG ^^

[jaunty shell]

Would have to record the points to save it though

[lunar jolt]

for the Procedural mesh ?

[jaunty shell]

for both solutions I guess ?

[lunar jolt]

For the proc indeed, but for the particle system, you don't need it because it do it for you 😃

[jaunty shell]

even at runtime ?

[lunar jolt]

of course

you never use it before ?

The Ribbon system ?

[jaunty shell]

don't think so

I used the ray particle emitter once

but yeah the procmesh tool should be better

https://forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?132434-Google-s-Tiltbrush-Inspired-Assets-for-UE4

this would be the solution but they only got the materials ready to use so far

spline mesh sounds like a good solution too

[lunar jolt]

Ohh yes you're right :!

Soo many solutions :p

[jaunty shell]

yeah !

[spiral zephyr]

For a physical drawing thing you could spawn small zero-gravity spheres(that resist movement but can be pushed). Don't spawn when overlapping. AFAIK this will bring pcs to their knees quickly, so might want to cap the max number of spheres and delete old or something. Fun to play with!

spawnpoint attached to hand or tool

[glad temple]

How do multiplayer VR games handle replicated physics?

Like if i wanted to make a bowling game. The ball and the pins would simulate differently on each client. Of course the server would send position updates but because actors don't interpolate that would cause jitter.

Does UE interpolate VR headset and controller motion for that matter?

[wicked oak]

it doesnt

[tired tree]

it doesn't even currently replicate the hmd / controllers

have to manually handle that

[glossy agate]

@little nacelle there is a checkbox in project settings to launch in VR mode. You have to check that, or you will have to start steamvr before launching the exe

[spring junco]

are there any examples of adding VR preview to templets like first person shooter ?

[full junco]

@spring junco what do you mean? vr preview is just a button you can always use

[opal bobcat]

https://youtu.be/3YF8zjWYFG8

short video of my project

[jaunty geyser]

Hey all, first post. Are any of you experiencing frame drops like I am describing in my forum post: https://forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?142001-Is-this-a-bug-Epic-VR-Template-teleporting-and-substantial-framerate-drop

Seems when teleporting on a vive or rift using the epic template I'm getting big fps drops if I 'hold' the teleport for a few seconds and bring it close to me so a high arc has been created, should that be expected?

[little nacelle]

@ryan#9503 Hey thanks! I just saw your answer, that works fine

[wicked oak]

@jaunty geyser the template is highly stupid

its recreating all the spline meshes on tick

instead of just saving the meshes and resync them with the spline

it just deletes all meshes and spawns them again

this stupid thing was costing me 4 ms a frame in ps4

[jaunty geyser]

@wicked oak Arrghh. I've been going nuts the last few weeks trying to solve why I was getting low fps. Could you share with me how you solved it please?

[wicked oak]

i didnt delete the meshes and create them again

just reatach them to the spline

if i need extra meshes i just create them, but i dont destroy them and create them again every frame

thats really stupid and its there by default

[jaunty geyser]

Do all the community templates do the same thing?

[tired tree]

pretty much all templates leave epics teleport in place

since its the "base" that everyone starts from

[jaunty geyser]

@tired tree Thanks for the reply too. Haven't played about much with spline stuff 😦 . Are the code changes necessary to implement the changes vblanco suggested just in BP_Motioncontroller under the Handle Teleportation Arc commented section?

[tired tree]

yeah, its just remaking it in there

where it passes the point list in

but having a frame drop when it is held up to your face shouldn't be that, at least not more than angling it upwards away from you to get a longer arc

that may be due to the transparency and filling your entire view with it.......

[wicked oak]

angling it upwards checks out

as it has to create more spline meshes

[jaunty geyser]

I thought it was down to transparency only, but the tick stuff makes sense too now, more splines being created with larger arc

[tired tree]

yeah, I was saying if it is slowing down only in front of the face then it isn't, but same thing with high angle away from the face its obviously the spline recreation

[jaunty geyser]

@tired tree @wicked oak Thank you both for the help, i'll try to give this a go

[tired tree]

@jaunty geyser it calls "Clear arc" every frame before "updating" the spline and creating all of the meshes, just use the current meshes and drop / add as needed like Blanco said.

[spring junco]

@full junco I created a new project from the first person templete but vr preview is grayed out.

does this maybe mean that vr isn't setup correctly in my settings or something ?

[full junco]

@spring junco it means your vr software isn't running

it's grayed out when ue4 didn't find any vr stuff running when it launched

[opal bobcat]

anyone have the issue where they have to launch vr preview twice every single time for it to actualy show up on the hmd?

like the other half of the time it will render the PIE window but not in stero

and it wont go to the HMD

[full junco]

I think I had something like that a few times, but 99.5% of the time it shows up in the HMD correctly

[opal bobcat]

well its super consistant for me

50% exactly

its not a gamestopper, but its fairly annoying

[jaunty geyser]

@tired tree @wicked oak Thanks again, was 100% the tick on the spline meshes, got it sorted, hacked something together and now getting solid 90fps no matter how long holding the teleport

[spring junco]

@full junco ok so once I figure that out should any project be launchable in VR preview. then I'm guessing I'm responsible for implementing any VR spesific features such as telaport or grabing objects and so forth.

[full junco]

yes

[spring junco]

excellent. thanks for the help.

[sturdy coral]

@jaunty geyser also check out the teleport on mitch's vr content examples on the forums; his teleport parabola uses instanced meshes so it is all one draw call

[full junco]

or just use a linear teleport thing, no idea why people do those parabolic things, in my opinion it's annoying to use

[opal bobcat]

i do parabolic

easier to get onto higher surfaces

imho

if you dont have parabolic and you cant see the floor of the surface above you you're trying to teleport to

then having a straight ray doesnt work

unless your ray goes through solids or something weird

[tired tree]

Minecraft VR teleport totally requires parabolic

some cases it is needed

You know I had never really looked into epics teleport controller except just enough to get it working with my template for people....this shit is pretty terribly implemented for performance

[full junco]

@tired tree why does it "totally require" parabolic?

I haven't yet played it

[tired tree]

square blocks

no curves

and many of the teleport locations are above you on top of blocks

[full junco]

@opal bobcat its easier to get onto higher surfaces, but thats not something good, its something bad I think

[tired tree]

you could like, highlight blocks to teleport on top of them automatically, but the curve feels good and lets you target anywhere, even out of direct LOS

[full junco]

but thats not good

I imagine it makes it way too easy for the player to move around

[tired tree]

?

its minecraft

it would be hell to teleport without an arc

regardless, you should try it, not only is the game great in VR, but you'll see what I mean

[full junco]

in regular minecraft, if you want to get up somewhere, you have to jump. and you can't jump very high. so you have to build stuff to be able to get there. you can do the same in VR

[tired tree]

they limit by distance

there isn't locomotion

[full junco]

I get that

[opal bobcat]

why is it bad?

re: john

[tired tree]

its not that easy to "build" where you are in VR in it

[full junco]

but my point is, why do you not want to force the player to build something so that any place you want to teleport to is lower on Z than you are?

[tired tree]

not like in PC where you look down and spam jump and build

its also not a competative game, the mod tries to keep usability over balance

its a valid choice

[full junco]

@opal bobcat its bad because it makes to game easier

[opal bobcat]

oh im not making a game

has no problem with someone teleporting anywhere

[full junco]

yeah then its fine

@tired tree minecraft can be a very competitive game I think

[tired tree]

MC Vr is pretty survival based

[full junco]

well, I should play it

[tired tree]

you should

its fun

and changes how you play

[full junco]

I'm not reading much about it anywhere though

[tired tree]

http://www.vivecraft.org/

[full junco]

I'm lately reading though /r/vive and I think I didnt see it mentioned a single time there

so something has to be bad about it

[tired tree]

its still popular

they even have an r/vive server for it

its just not "new"

been around since prior vives release

gets a ton of updates but there are other things to talk about

[full junco]

what I mean is that in a thread like this, no one even mentions it: https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/64dr34/must_have_titles_for_people_new_to_the_vive/

[tired tree]

I see a thread about it at least once a week

dunno

its got some good interactions built in too, their climbing system is pretty robust and it supports multiplayer

[full junco]

what kind of AA does it have? 😛

[tired tree]

use optifine

bet it has some PP ones available

regardless, its simplistic textures, and simple shapes

you don't need gods gift to MSAA to get it looking ok

[full junco]

"simplistic textures, and simple shapes" dont make AA less important

[tired tree]

just go try it

before pickin it apart part

jeez, keyboard lag there

[full junco]

well I never really played much minecraft and I'm too lazy to learn how to install all the mods I would need, like you mentioned optifine

[tired tree]

you don't need it

unless you want higher res textures, and full shaders

[full junco]

it runs with stable 90 fps?

[tired tree]

last I tried yes

haven't used it in awhile

[full junco]

ok

[uneven moon]

https://www.gofundme.com/idreamofvr

[real needle]

@uneven moon I wish you all the luck! But I'm a little sad that you spoiled a great twist in your future game by already letting me know that I'll be on a space station. I would have loved to discover that while playing the game

I would also have liked to see what the 3,5k for "computer hardware" is actually for. I've bought what I consider a top notch dev machine and it only cost half of what your projections are for that

I'm assuming the 1500 for "Virtual Reality Hardware" is a Vive and a Rift, but it'd be good to know what platforms you're aiming for

[pearl tangle]

@uneven moon your website doesn't appear to actually demonstrate any of the work you have created?

@real needle you get yourself some more trackers yet? My box of 9 should hopefully be turning up this week, they got into my UK office on Thursday 😄

[full junco]

@tired tree I've played it, for a while and nope. the arc works, but only because the distance is way too low, does not make fun to move bigger distances with it. and the whole game is very mediocre

[tired tree]

thats up to you

the majority of devs and users like the arc teleport

nothing wrong with differing opinions

[full junco]

well they probably like it because they havent tried anything that they liked more 😛

[tired tree]

everyone used non parabolic teleport at first...

and then switched over to it...

[full junco]

why did everyone?

first thing many people played was probably the lab, and that has parabolic

[tired tree]

and a lot of games got complaints that the lab teleport was better

I don't know man, opinion is subjective

[full junco]

yeah its subjective

but maybe you'll play my game and like it more

or I get shitstormed by people who want to have parabolic teleport, who knows 😛

[tired tree]

doubt it, not because I don't think your teleport could be better than thiers, but because I just don't use teleport at all anymore

so if you have any alternative options I likely wouldn't see it :p

[full junco]

I dont have alternative options, I dont know of anything better

what option do you prefer?

[tired tree]

even dash teleport is nicer to me

[full junco]

well my teleport is dash teleport I think

[tired tree]

but any locomotion period I prefer

actual locomotion

[full junco]

so the stuff where normal people get sick?

[tired tree]

yup

i wouldn't call it normal people though

[full junco]

what would you call it?

its a minority that can play with regular locomotion without issues

[tired tree]

there are a lot of numbers out there regarding that

its a large enough subset that can handle it that I am willing to play with it

after all, onward doesn't offer alternative and its sold really well

[full junco]

interesting, haven't played that

[tired tree]

and onwards is one of the less friendly methods, being straight sliding

though they implement it pretty well

[full junco]

dont get how that can work for many people

[pearl tangle]

I quite like the having to throw something to teleport concept since it gives some form of skill requirement in there rather than just instant jumping

[full junco]

well, or maybe its "the one who drops out last because of motion sickness wins"

[tired tree]

john, they have sold hundreds of thousands of copies of that game...and many players are over the 200 hour mark.

maybe you should try some of these things out

[glossy agate]

But they got like 40k + sales and the most thriving vr mp community with tournaments.

[tired tree]

sorry. meant tens of thousands

over 50k now

[glossy agate]

I'm about to break 90hours on it haha

Nice. Dante knocked that one out of the park

[full junco]

well, 50k out of 500k vive users or something like that? thats still a minority then 😛

I get that it works for some people

[tired tree]

sigh...

[glossy agate]

Not really. 5%+ market saturation in anything is amazing

[tired tree]

its not just onward though

the majority of VR games are offering alternatives to teleport

even if they leave teleport in as an option

[full junco]

the majority of VR games are offering smooth locomotion?

[tired tree]

alternatives

[full junco]

well alternatives dont have to be bad

[tired tree]

there is armswing, smooth, RIP, climbing

[full junco]

I only say that smooth locomotion only works for a minority

[tired tree]

and more

[glossy agate]

Onward is closer to the top of the top 10 vr too

[tired tree]

onwards competators are also some of the highest selling games

and they also are non teleport focused

[glossy agate]

Yep. Creators of raw data have a new game in dev that has fast free locomotion now too.

Arm swing in hyper speed at least

[tired tree]

cloudgate too

they made that zombie shooter that was a launch title

[glossy agate]

Yeah Arizona sunshine put it in because of user backlash. I bought it once free locomotion was available.

[tired tree]

not who I meant, but yeah Arizona did that as well

[glossy agate]

I'm hoping to convince the dude behind killing floor to put it in. He was super against it last time I asked.

[real needle]

@tired tree You're right that people do want free locomotion, and it makes for more immersive gameplay

It's hard to know what the actual % of people investing in VR atm gets sick and how many doesn't

Onward has allowed people who used to get sick to combat it and eventyally learn

I personally think it has alot to do with real world balance

I wonder if people who do board/snow sports are less susceptible to vr sickness...

[glossy agate]

Yeah, it seems like most people acclimate, at least owners and not demo users anyway. That's the market I'm going for because they own sets and they are the buyers.

[tired tree]

VR legs is also kind of a thing, many can get over it. some can't though

[glossy agate]

Not really targeting first timers

[real needle]

First timers makes for bad playtesters imo, because it's either "WOW THIS IS AMAZING" or "wtf am I supposed to do"

Yes VR legs is a thing even though Chet from Valve denies it

I've been working on a locomotion system on and off for a while and I've been able to have my partner who used to get sick from everything liking it when he can customize it

[glossy agate]

Yeah, some people just take a little longer before the "wet mouth" goes away haha

[tired tree]

I think he denies it as an absolute

because there really are people that literally cannot get over it

[real needle]

That is true

Whatever you do, don't play the custom "ice levels" in climbey

[tired tree]

but I myself am proof of it being an effect, I am entirely immune to all vection sickness in VR now, even though I wasn't at the beginning

[real needle]

I had to lay down for over an hour and I usually don't get sick from anything

[pearl tangle]

i couldn't even play past the tutorial on climbey

[tired tree]

i guess 6 months of throwing my self around making locomotions will do that :p

[real needle]

I played climbey for 3+ hours straight the first time, one of the better sessions I've had in VR

Haha

I implemented your climbing for an experimental class in the nest, and combined it with my system

I really like your implementation, but the "step up" is a little tricky

[glossy agate]

Climbed demo made me sick because it was buggy and it made me nervous because I couldn't prepare for a fall haha

[quartz bay]

I still think my arm swinging locomotion system is the best solution so far 😃 I'm biased though

[real needle]

@quartz bay Yours is nice but if we're bragging... with mine you can run and shoot at the same time 😉

[quartz bay]

With mine, you can turn your head and look over your shoulder and still walk in the direction your torso is facing 😃

[real needle]

@quartz bay Did you try @clever sky

[tired tree]

yeah thats pretty typical now though slaye

[real needle]

's Freedom Locomotion?

[quartz bay]

oh is it? dang, I thought I had a head start on the competition...

[tired tree]

Fantis the step up is configurable

naw, VRTK does it by default now

[full junco]

I just tried @clever sky thing for the first time. its not working well for me I think

[real needle]

@tired tree Yeah I tried changing the value but when having people test they still had a hard time doing it

[clever sky]

I recently implemented hybrid armswinger.

Also I've got sliding in now because of all the sliding whingers 😛

[full junco]

I think its only running at 45 fps though @clever sky , so that will probably make it quite a lot worse than it should be

[clever sky]

Haven't updated the public builds though.

@full junco Yeah. I know D:

[quartz bay]

I haven't tried @clever sky 's locomotion stuff (or heard of it).

[clever sky]

Or at least it's getting a bunch of frame drops from somewhere.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/584170/

[full junco]

@clever sky I didnt have missed frames in the game

have the steamvr missed frame counter enabled always, and that didnt show up

[glossy agate]

What's your slide like zap? Pretty standard or did you try out something new to add? Your first system was really good.

[full junco]

but the controllers looked laggy, so it was reprojecting all the time I think

[clever sky]

It's an onward style slide I think.

[tired tree]

@real needle you might have to set it to half capsule height + increase the helper value. But it can be turned off for a custom solution too

[clever sky]

In that, I haven't tried onward much, but I've seen video descriptions of it.

So it's got things like - move arm further from body to move faster

[tired tree]

no

onward does finger on pad

[clever sky]

and hold down touchpad to sprint.

[glossy agate]

Cool. Yeah it's just forward vector of the controller

[tired tree]

for speed

with controller forward vector

[full junco]

@clever sky I also dont really move my head at all when walking on the place, so I think your system doesnt like that. I dont like moving my head though, thats wasted energy I think 😛

[quartz bay]

I went with swinging arms at hip level for walking, and if you bring your arms up into a jogging position, your character sprints

[glossy agate]

Onward does arm lower for more speed though so you don't have aiming sprinters

[clever sky]

@full junco Yeah, my hybrid armswinger should be right up your alley.

Or the sliding locomotion 😛

Something will fit!

[full junco]

I hope so, can't imagine sliding will work 😛

[clever sky]

@ryan#9503 Ah that's what it is. I've got my stuff going the opposite way.

[glossy agate]

Some of it has to be in game context though, so it just needs to be adjusted for balance

[clever sky]

Yeah.

[glossy agate]

People were still getting pissed on onward because you can aim 1 handed and sprint with the off hand down to go really fast for surprise kills.

[clever sky]

Yeah. You'd have to do something like a big spray for one handed kills and or while moving.

Artificial spray.

Which is in Pavlov. People seem to like it.

[tired tree]

Pavlov is less tactical

[glossy agate]

Yeah that ones fun. They feel a bit floaty to my but attachments would probably fix it.

[tired tree]

lots of players can't handle onwards skill level

sims aren't for everyone

[clever sky]

But you get much reduced spray when using two hands for weapons in Pavlov.

And yeah, you're right. I'm not a fan of tact shooters, much less sim shooters 😃

I think it's in large part also due to my crappy aussie internet.

[glossy agate]

You do in onward too, but if you have ap rounds loaded you can kill before the gun floats haha. It's a hack pretty much

[clever sky]

@glossy agate Ah ok.

[full junco]

well theres no game I've played more than arma 3 in the last ~5 years, so in theory I should like onward I think

[tired tree]

I really found it funny when they asked Chet why people were able to play onward without getting sick and he basically replied "Because onward doesn't make you sick"

[real needle]

Hahah yuuuup

[full junco]

and why doesnt onward make you sick?

[clever sky]

Because he does it gud. Git gud.

[glossy agate]

If you get it hit me up on steam fatmoth1.

[real needle]

The biggest reason is the "cockpit effect" from the rifles

From my experience

[clever sky]

You think so?

[real needle]

And slow paced sliding

[clever sky]

What's the rifles doing? Filling up your FOV?

[real needle]

Yeah, the rifles "ground" you just like all the cockpit games

There was alot of talk about that back in the DK2 days

[clever sky]

Grounding and FOV restriction are interesting.

Not sure if it's two different effects or the same effect expressed in two different ways.

[tired tree]

there is a ton of movement when the rifles aren't up to you though

[clever sky]

I feel like it's two different things but highly interrelated.

Not unlike visual motion and vestibular motion!

[tired tree]

I think he just was too heavy handed on sliding movement originally

[glossy agate]

It's all contextualization. Lots of cues letting you know where you are going

[tired tree]

it also has a chest

so you aren't "free floating"

[glossy agate]

I tried my own with an empty map and got sick. Just a grid floor reduces sickness

[full junco]

any kind of Z velocity gives me motion sickness in a second or less

[glossy agate]

Personally I would do only 4 way or front and back locomotion and use the controller vector for angular movement so people have more precise control.

[quartz bay]

I found that stairs can make myself and other people queezy. The trick is to get people to look in the direction they're moving.

[tired tree]

stairs shouldn't be "stairs" though

they should be ramps for collision

and even then, yea, ramp / height changes are one of the harder parts

[quartz bay]

my stairs are a smooth ramp, you don't step down the stairs. Still, even the smooth ramp going downwards causes motion sickness

[glossy agate]

Yeah I put flat collision on stairs so the movement is smooth not jerking.

[tired tree]

ever demo to kids?

they literally don't have any trouble with anything

[glossy agate]

Nah

[quartz bay]

I haven't done it yet, but you have to guide the players vision to look down the stairs in the direction they're traveling.

[glossy agate]

Pavlov used them but it's pretty smooth. Dropping off the glass hallways takes a little getting used too though

[quartz bay]

I had this idea as well: What if you don't use a smooth ramp on stairs, and instead of using an instant up and down movement with the stair collision, you simulate the smooth movements of a foot landing on a stair, and then the knee straightening as the body center of mass moves forward? You'd get a smoother upward motion and it would feel closer to walking up or down real stairs.

[glossy agate]

Build it, I'll try for you. Good idea like AS with ladders but a lerp instead?

[clever sky]

that reminds me...

gotta add more fov restriction on z axis motion

[glossy agate]

For climbing, or the jumps? I thought the climbing worked really good as is

[clever sky]

For going up/down stairs

[quartz bay]

I would build it, but I can't focus on tech building at the moment. I need to focus on sales and marketing to bring in the money and also build more content. Once I get more money and time, I'll build more tech 😛

[glossy agate]

Priorities haha.

[quartz bay]

yeah, I find getting money helps buy burritos and pay rent 😛

[glossy agate]

What are you making? I want to check it out

[quartz bay]

one sec... I'll get steam store page

[clever sky]

Cut down from burritos to ramen!

[quartz bay]

http://store.steampowered.com/app/463400/

[glossy agate]

Zaptruder you could use the fov restriction for falls too. Nobody has figured that out yet

[clever sky]

I am 😃

My fov changes size depending on movement modality

But I'm going to make it a bit more dynamic

[quartz bay]

The game play trailer on my store page is over a year old and uses the DK2 with leap motion, it has since been updated for room scale with motion controllers.

[glossy agate]

Sweet @quartz bay I'll try it out later this week. I have seen it around

[quartz bay]

thanks 😃 that's like buying me two and a half burittos

[real needle]

@clever sky Did you use camera post process for fov reduction? I don't remember... when I implemented it I get a disparity between left/right eye that is a little bit disorienting

Vignette that is

[clever sky]

Nah. I use a different technique.

And it still causes a disparity.

But not for the reason you think it does.

It's because....

Of your brain preferring the image of one eye over the other.

[real needle]

I was working on a masked inverted normal sphere but never finished it. Comfort options can come later...

[clever sky]

So ironically... when you center it

so that it appears to the right from the left eye and left from the right eye

whichever eye is stronger ends up dominating the image

[real needle]

Interesting, that seems about right

[clever sky]

And if you make them equal for both eyes, you get a goggle effect as the FOV shrinks.

[real needle]

Because I couldn't put my finger on what could cause the "issue"

[clever sky]

like looking through two tubes.

[real needle]

Yeah I tried that

[clever sky]

Centered FOV restriction is preferable to that.

Oh well. Them's the breaks!

[quartz bay]

have you guys tried placing a sphere over the camera and using a material shader to darken regions of it?

[clever sky]

Something similar yes

[quartz bay]

I have this really weird issue. When I start my level in VR on the Oculus Rift with a packaged build, everything is completely black. I have isolated it down to being specific to my level and some asset within it.

All of this started happening after I upgraded from 4.13 to 4.15

What's especially odd is that it doesn't happen with the HTC Vive.

[real needle]

@quartz bay It could be related to the "hmd mirror mode" bug

Are you executing that console command?

[quartz bay]

I'm not executing any console commands

I have isolated it down to a single level which contains a bunch of sub levels. I've deleted all of my sublevels and then removed everything from my persistent level except for my character, a point light, and a box to stand on. That worked, so it's a matter of figuring out what level is causing the black out and if its an asset or something else...

[real needle]

In which level do you have the main light source? In the default setup

[jagged vale]

know if there's any sort of warranty on the dev grant vives? possibly faulty lighthouse

[full junco]

@jagged vale unfortunately there isn't

[jagged vale]

What if I go to HTC directly?

No way to replace a lighthouse?

[full junco]

they can repair it, for money

[jagged vale]

Any idea how much?

[pearl tangle]

they are available to buy on the vive store page already

$130 from memory

if you were given free kit you cant really expect any kind of warranty on the stuff

[jagged vale]

Didn't expect them to cost that much, what a shame

[pearl tangle]

not really that bad is it, since you already got a free vive?

[jagged vale]

They're $275 here for the record

I also really wish you'd stop accusing me of complaining, your wording is antagonistic, nothing wrong with me inquiring about this

[pearl tangle]

$275, where is that? and i didn't say you were complaining. i said $130 is not too bad when you get the $800 piece of kit for free

[jagged vale]

Oh, maybe my interpretation was wrong then 😛

NZ

And I can only find one store with 1 in stock

[pearl tangle]

ah they haven't opened up the accessories store in aus and nz yet you will need to import through the US or UK store most likely

[fleet veldt]

@full junco Hey I'm running into issues I think I saw you had on answerhub where the hierarchical instanced static mesh component isn't using the correct LOD if you scale an instance. Did you have any luck with that later?

working on an asteroid scene and keep getting very obvious LOD pops and the LODs all change around the same area really close to the camera rather than being spread out over distance http://i.imgur.com/Rx7vfBd.jpg

[jaunty shell]

quite the nice vista you have here @fleet veldt !

[fleet veldt]

@jaunty shell thanks 😃 it's pretty neat in VR

[jaunty shell]

I bet its an horror to optimize too :p

[fleet veldt]

it .. was. but it runs fast now on 970gtx. just have this LOD popping issue 😦

[fresh laurel]

@fleet veldt Looks really nice

[pearl tangle]

tried giving the LOD distance a really long range at all @fleet veldt ?

[real needle]

@pearl tangle There's a problem between left/right camera. I'm not sure if john solved it though...

Here's a bit of (probably) unnecessary info: The alpha on WidgetInteractionComponents DebugTrace actually adjusts the thickness of the trace

The hit "blob" stays large though

When 4.16 hits I'm changing to source build

[pearl tangle]

im still having problems on this damn machine with compiling at the moment. cant even get my android builds to go so im sitting here with a laptop next to me to grab the git updates and run the builds on there each time hah

[real needle]

Errors?

I hope you aren't using win 8 😄

[pearl tangle]

10

major minor mismatch crap

[real needle]

Ah

Yeah I had that happen once

[pearl tangle]

ran out of time to try and fix it since it takes forever to reinstall the android and visual studio stuff so this is the faster way

[real needle]

We've since then decided to always update all machines at the same time to not accidently break anything

[pearl tangle]

yeah i got an error when i was trying to compile source, saw on udn that vs 2017 should fix that error. then i got another error. fixed that, got another 1

ended up breaking my build capabilities entirely on this machine but gotta get this project out the door so don't have the time to fuck around

oh also we got the rugby game thing done with the vive tracker too. had the other project fall through so did that 1 in house

[real needle]

nice

[pearl tangle]

https://goo.gl/photos/oU7jZUXfV1m6YoJ3A

look to the bottom in that

[mighty carbon]

Sliding locomotion sucks, especially when diagonal movement and side stepping are in the mix.

I don't see it working for mass adoption.

Why on earth would I want to get sick many times before I grow VR legs (that is if I grow them at all)? Maybe developers or folks without jobs can afford to lay it out for a few days, but regular people have day/night jobs and going to work being sick isn't an option.

[native cedar]

so I have these nice textures with infographics and I'd like to use them in game and they look shit

the txaa is destroying everything and disabling it makes my level awful

the only thing that seems to work is brutal supersampling but does anyone have a better solution?

[tawdry dragon]

tried MSAA?

[native cedar]

the scene has many polys so I was thinking of going deferred for this one work, but I guess I'll just have to go forward (lol)

[tawdry dragon]

how many polys?

We used forward for rendering some industrial machines(2.5 mil triangles) and a 500-600k triangle env

running smootly 90 fps on GTX970

[native cedar]

wow

I think we are on a 5m poly scene, but it really depends on how many polys the least efficient view has

the artist is still working on it and the time is so that we can't do too much retopology

[tired tree]

How many draw calls though

[native cedar]

as I said the scene is not yet complete, but we'll be having less than 500 per eye for sure, we are going heavy with instanced meshes and we have little to no dynamic shadows

[tired tree]

then you'll be fine in either renderer

[native cedar]

also we'll be running on very high end

thanks for the advice guys

[wicked oak]

i run forward with a absolute fuckton of drawcalls

its annoying, but it does run ok, msaa is just glorious for my game

[jaunty shell]

screenpercentage 300 master race !

[tired tree]

overkill SS is good?

[jaunty shell]

nah 200 is enough most of the time honestly

200 + MSAA would look pretty sharp already

[tired tree]

you don't need 200 with msaa

msaa already is a SS technique

[wicked oak]

temporal does look really good at high SS

[jaunty shell]

we use Def + FXAA, but I'm starting to wonder if Forward would not be better

[wicked oak]

temporal + 150% looks really good

but depending on your project temporal could be problematic

ghosting and all that crap

i use TAA + 120% on the ps4 pro at 90 fps

[tired tree]

i had to adjust a lot of settings to get TAA to stop ghosting and look "ok", then Forward + MSAA on half the SS looked 10x better....

[wicked oak]

well, forward msaa just looks incredible

[tired tree]

Legendre do you have much foliage / thin edges in your scenes?

or masked transparency?

[jaunty shell]

mostly solid meshes, but some projects have a lot of transparent glass

[tired tree]

thats glass isn't really an issue

try forward + msaa dude

sounds like your game is suited to it

[jaunty shell]

ain't no game :p

[tired tree]

then project

w/e

[jaunty shell]

But sharper is better for sure

[tired tree]

you also don't have the transparency perf hit on forward that you do on deferred

[jaunty shell]

Gonna try it on VRWorks and see if the difference is noticeable

Oh that's good to know

I had to go back to simplistic glass materials to not crush frametime on deferred

[tired tree]

oh, vr works, thats how you are claiming 300 SS, thats not a true 300 if you are using lens matchede

[jaunty shell]

Yeah I'm cheating a bit :p

[tired tree]

the multires part of lens matched shading at high values undersamples the edges

300 SP with 3 lensmatched is like 200 or less SP without it

it also scales differently

the SP is scaled by the lensmatched, forget the variable name, been awhile

[jaunty shell]

Yeah there's a lot to tweak

Gonna try forward on a simple project and see if it improves a lot

[tired tree]

I honestly prefer forward + msaa over VRworks, and I put a lot of time into VRworks

[jaunty shell]

why not both ?

[tired tree]

its just....brand locked, and has had multiple instances where it wasn't fully tested on AMD hardware

I had to edit shaders a few times after engine updates where they didn't test implementations on AMD

[jaunty shell]

Ah yes, I guess that's where we have a bit more leeway for internal tool developement

[tired tree]

if you can enforce nvidia then yeah go for it

[jaunty shell]

Since the target hardware is controlled

[tired tree]

because the 4.13 port of VRworks had a hard crash on AMD, and I stopped trusting them to check fully

[jaunty shell]

Wasn't there a news on Nvidia opening their game libraries to other platforms recently ?

ie AMD

[tired tree]

VRworks is hardware enabled

[wicked oak]

to be exact, it uses special DX/GL extensions

[jaunty shell]

http://www.game-debate.com/news/22477/nvidia-makes-geforce-gameworks-effects-open-source-can-now-be-optimised-for-amd-radeon

[wicked oak]

that only nvidia supports

but might become general extensions

[tired tree]

gameworks isn;t the same

[jaunty shell]

well vrworks is part of gameworks

kinda ?

[wicked oak]

no

gameworks is a library of fancy FX

vrworks is PERFORMAAAAAANCEEEEEEE for VR

[jaunty shell]

ah right

Volumetric Lighting
VXAO
Flex
HBAO+
TXAA
Soft Shadows
Depth of Field
FaceWorks
WaveWorks
HairWorks
Flow
PhysX
Destruction

Yea IC now

[wicked oak]

VR works is a library that uses some special GL/DX extensions to allow for things like multires

or direct front buffer rendering, or driver stuff

[tired tree]

blanco, don't their 900+ series cards also have dedicated hardware around the multi window rendering too?

[wicked oak]

yes

thats why it can do multires fast

[tired tree]

yeah

[wicked oak]

and the 10xx series has special "multicast" viewport stuff

its used for highly performant multi monitor gaming

[tired tree]

amd has an equivalent, but really need a union

[wicked oak]

and VR stereo render and LMS

nah, amd just gives the extensions

and nothing else XD

[jaunty shell]

ah I remember their talk about that tech

[tired tree]

oh lol

[wicked oak]

thats the whole thing. Nvidia has libraries, samples, and a ue4 implementation

amd just gives you the library with the GL/DX extensions

"do it yourself lmao"

only serious sam VR has AMD "vrworks" equivalent

becouse they use their own engine

[tired tree]

well its actually good enough, and ties into foveated rendering well enough, that we should expect to see it become standardized at some point

[wicked oak]

meanwhile, lots of ue4 vr games end up using VRWorks branch

[jaunty shell]

vulkan/kronos ?

[wicked oak]

or features

for example Raw Data

they have multires

[tired tree]

yeah raw data had to add it, they were hitting FPS walls like mad early on

and people wanted more and more SS from it

[jaunty shell]

and nvidia delivered the 10xx

and people still want more

Good old Rift DK1 days where we could count pixels sounds like ages ago

[tired tree]

more doesn't really matter when you get to 1080's and the like, you are hitting res limits at this point

need a new HMD more

[jaunty shell]

yeah

right project switched to Forward, let's check out MSAA

no doubt msaa is better

[tired tree]

doesn't feel like your lenses are smeared with Vaseline anymore does it?

[jaunty shell]

haha that's more or less what FXAA SS and TXAA SS gave us yeah :p

[zinc violet]

MSAA still has some issues due to shadows being handled on deferred

their reasoning to that was that they didn't want to scrap or reinvent all deferred tech implemented for shadows

[tired tree]

also has the specular glitters

[jaunty shell]

the one that was reported on the forums ? (on the FPS map)

[raven halo]

oh wow! Game works is open source now! 😮

[mighty carbon]

Carmack doesn't seem to like Vulkan

[wicked oak]

why? @mighty carbon

can you point to that?

[zinc violet]

@raven halo ?

we've had nvidias forks for gameworks stuff for 2 years now I think

or you mean stuff you get from nvidias own repo when you are a registered developer?

[raven halo]

I mean this:

http://www.game-debate.com/news/22477/nvidia-makes-geforce-gameworks-effects-open-source-can-now-be-optimised-for-amd-radeon

it was posted here a few minutes ago

I didn't expect such a move at all

[zinc violet]

well, it's not open for all atm in https://github.com/NVIDIAGameWorks

if you register as nvidia developer, you get sources for all mentioned things

or in unreals case, you get access to their ue4 fork just if you have ue4 account linked to github

also, while that article lists all kinds of nvidia tech there, TXAA is not amongs the freely available repos on github

[raven halo]

how well does gameworks perform on AMD cards out of the box, do you know?

[zinc violet]

I don't, but should be easy enough to test, just build ue4 branch from their fork for specific tech

I haven't owned AMD GPU, ever

my last non-nvidia GPU was ATI Radeon 4890

[tired tree]

@mighty carbon he isn't saying that he dislikes Vulkan, he is saying there is still room for a middle man so that you don't have to go pure barebones on small projects

[mighty carbon]

@wicked oak check his Twitter

[tired tree]

"When I write a simple tool or experiment, I don't want to use either Vulkan or a game engine."

its not disliking vulkan

its saying that a middling API wrapper still has its place

[mighty carbon]

something like that @tired tree

[tired tree]

but it would be a wrapper around Vulkan...

[mighty carbon]

"For everyone saying "Vulkan!", the conclusion is that there is an opportunity for an API between Vulkan and the game engines. I agree."

I've heard people say Metal is more dev friendly than Vulkan (a lot more)

[tired tree]

I don't think he has to worry about ti though, such things tend to surface

[mighty carbon]

I just wonder why they would make Vulkan not as friendly as Metal :/

btw, https://uploadvr.com/free-gear-vr-s8/ << valid point

basically Gear VR needs a killer app for people to dust off their devices and start using them 😉

[raven halo]

I'm so excited for gearvr! 😄

btw, @mighty carbon about the vertical tearing issue I'm getting in S7 with Android 7. Oculus now has my project files and is debugging the issue, as it is only happening on Android 7. I have my fingers crossed, hopefully they will find what is wrong

[wicked oak]

metal isnt as ridiculously low level as vulkan

its like halfway beetween opengl and vulkan

[full junco]

yeah, you can get better performance with vulkan when used right

for engine developers you really want to have an API as low level as possible

@fleet veldt the lod bug was fixed back then

I'm not seeing any issues with HISMC LODs apart from that left and right eye can use different LODs in vr

that's a huge issue, but has nothing to do with what you described

[slender sonnet]

For those who may want to attend or exhibit here's a link to the first ever gaming convention that takes place entirely in VR | http://queue.vip/B14CVId

[clever sky]

Interesting! Should be fun.

http://queue.vip/HZZB3Eh

[tired tree]

where are they getting those numbers from?

100+ speakers / 150+ exibitors

they only list like 15 speakers so far

and the 20,000 attendees?

[tawdry dragon]

We got the LEAP today

Its pretty cool

has some kinks, but all in all a pretty cool way to interface with the world

[wicked oak]

today im an animator

[tawdry dragon]

oh noes!

[wicked oak]

creating the new spellcaster enemy for DWVR

they will run around and annoy the shit out of you

mostly by throwing homing magic balls

and teleporting if you get close

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-wJ-DQntmQ

video of the newest stuff

[tired tree]

@tawdry dragon the new Leap? Or the old one?

[tawdry dragon]

just the one they have for sale

so I guess, its the old one?

[tired tree]

yea

the software on that got better over time, but its still limited

[tawdry dragon]

yep

its pretty cool and I think our clients will think its pretty cool

[tired tree]

when it first came out it was entirely useless

took about a year to get decent results out of the software

the new one coming out is supposed to be really good though, think at least one headset is planning on having it built in

[glossy agate]

@wicked oak you make the anims in engine, or over in Maya?

[wicked oak]

in Blender

im not going to buy maya

@ryan#9503 Maya cost is bigger than my game budget, i cant use it, or 3dsmax

Blender works for me

[tawdry dragon]

@tired tree does that mean there is a new one comming or?

[tired tree]

yeah, one with better resolution and accuracy

[tawdry dragon]

sweet

[tired tree]

the headsets using leap are using the new hardware

[tawdry dragon]

any news on a standalone release?

[tired tree]

dunno

they seem to be focusing on mobile integration a lot

haven't heard much about 2.0 releasing lately

[tawdry dragon]

Alrighty 😃

guess we will just buy the new one when it comes out

until then, its very interesting

every external person we have tried VR on really struggle with the controllers for the first 3-4 minutes

so the leap, even with it kinks, offers a much more usuable interface right off the bat

[uneven moon]

how much does Oculus keep from any sale you make on their platform?

[full junco]

I would guess 30%

[uneven moon]

that's

insane

[full junco]

why?

every store takes that

if you think you will lose less than 30% by only selling on your own website, you can do that

[uneven moon]

I mean all they're doing is providing the platform

VR games don't have the same out-reach as standard games

taking 30% away from developers

especially if it's a team working on it

seems a bit much

for doing nothing but hosting the product

[full junco]

that's how oculus makes most of the money

[glossy agate]

Hosting and market reach for being on "THE" pc app platform is worth the 30% to me. Its the same as the apple app store takes. The amount of money it would take to get the same reach and transaction management on your own would cost much more.

[full junco]

I dont think its a good strategy from oculus though to try to quickly make money with the rift

[glossy agate]

I meant Steam, not occulus or viveport, my bad.

[full junco]

they have infinite facebook money, they could build a platform where devs for all headsets could sell without any cost so no one would sell VR games on steam any more, and then after a few years they can make it more expensive

[glossy agate]

I guess viveport does expose you to the Chinese market though which is worth something, although I don't have a Chinese language version.

I think my dad can speak Chinese, Ill see if he will set it up for me maybe.

[full junco]

you need to have chinese localization for viveport

heres the bug about eyes seeing different LODs with HISMCs in VR, please give it a vote 😄 https://issues.unrealengine.com/issue/UE-43763

if they dont fix it soon I would have to fix it myself since I definitely wouldnt want to release a game with that bug

[sturdy coral]

@full junco they don't mention HISMCs in that ticket, hopefully they don't close it out if regular instanced static meshes work

[full junco]

@sturdy coral hm, interesting thought

it was entered by jack though, he is the HISMC guy, as long as he's the one who will fix it it will be fine

[sturdy coral]

ah that's good

[full junco]

the fact that he entered it as a bug might mean he won't be the one to fix it though

@sturdy coral I mentioned that its HISMCs and not ISMCs now, just to be sure

[glad temple]

Is there an easy way to have players fall with gravity?

[fossil stratus]

what size do you typically keep your textures at for the vive?

[full junco]

@fossil stratus whatever looks best

[fossil stratus]

I am trying to increase my frame rate .. i thought converting the textures from 2048 to 1024 would help.. it made no difference

[full junco]

yeah it doesn't really make any difference

[fossil stratus]

but i also noticed textures at 1024 still look good.

[full junco]

just depends on the screen size

res in vr isn't too high, so anything that isn't huge or directly in front of your face doesn't need huge textures

but they also don't hurt performance, so just use whatever is easiest

maybe just don't throw 8k textures at small things in the distance 😃

[vocal maple]

Is China a big market for htc vive?

[pearl tangle]

the biggest market for it

but having said that, China is the biggest market for nearly everything

[vocal maple]

Can Chinese people use Steam?

[full junco]

no, I think they can't

[pearl tangle]

thats why they have viveport

[vocal maple]

Are numbers such as Vive devices sold by country available anywhere?

[pearl tangle]

they are not publicly available no

[vocal maple]

I wonder if the Chinese viveport games are different from the ones on Steam. Like maybe certain types of games are more popular in China and so the markets may look very different

[glossy agate]

Arcades are big in china and they have a bunch of vive arcades

My dad goes there a lot for work so I asked him to help me translate my game earlier. You have to just localize it on viveport.

I lived in Thailand for 13 years and they pretty much play the same games as here in the US so hopefully the Chinese market is similar. I know they have a rip off COD there.

[vocal maple]

Yeah, I would expect that market to be flooded with zero effort games and ripoffs. Which can be good because real games will stand out more

[glossy agate]

Yeah that's what I'm hoping for haha. I will try and see if I can find the Chinese section on viveport to see what's available.

[pearl tangle]

steam is flooded with that more than viveport

[glossy agate]

True. I haven't seen anything I would buy yet. 2017 was the most decent one I saw probably.

[vocal maple]

I hope that persists for a while. "Super VR MMO Zombie Kill Simulator RPG VR" is easier to compete with than an AAA game. I think that AAA companies will start doing VR very soon and it will change VR significantly.

[full junco]

its still too small for them

[pearl tangle]

its going to take a long time for big companies to get into vr. just isn't enough of a market for it yet. maybe 2 years before we start seeing the big fellas put a proper title out unless somebody else funds it like Oculus does

probably once we have the next generation of headsets with better audio, ergonomics and wireless in them we should be good

[full junco]

better audio?

my headphones are good and no built in solution will be better

[vocal maple]

But if Activision just tasked a number of developers to create for example a VR version of COD Zombies they wouldn't have to spend a lot of money on development, but the popularity of COD would ensure their presence on the market for the future

[full junco]

because what VR needs now are more shooters, right? 😛

[pearl tangle]

the actual audio implementation stuff for VR is not great. Steam VR is trying to do it's audio thing, unreal trying to do theirs, oculus trying to do theirs. it's still a bit of a mess for content creators really. but also the vive with the inbuilt headphones will at least give ease of use for it. definitely much better quality to have good noise cancelling headphones but ease of use and pick up and play is a big deal. I hardly ever actually sit around and play games on my vive lately just because of the effort to get it up. and i haven't even unboxed my rift at home because of all the fucking around

[vocal maple]

Yes, more shooters where you stand in a circle with no objectives or progression

😋

[pearl tangle]

its much easier for me to just grab the switch and it automatically switches on the tv and starts working

[full junco]

@pearl tangle UE4 isn't doing its own thing, UE4 is using the new steam audio stuff

[pearl tangle]

big developers need to make sure that people can do that constantly with their game, since income generation in games now is based much more on microtransactions rather than just a purchase and walk away model of 20 years ago

[full junco]

well I wouldnt buy a game where microtransactions exist

[pearl tangle]

you wouldn't. but you don't represent the majority of the poplation who obviously do since it's a gigantic money generator for most game businesses these days

[full junco]

you mentioned the switch, are there any microtransactions in the new zelda?

[pearl tangle]

yep they have DLC

[full junco]

DLCs are different

[pearl tangle]

why? it's an ongoing purchase that you make with the game rather than a once off thing. or you buy the season pass in advance essentially giving them more money and pre ordering new content

[full junco]

DLCs are usually few and with a lot of content, microtransactions are, well, "micro", so things like individual weapons or skins

I have no issue with a DLC that adds a few hours of gameplay

[vocal maple]

An example of a game with microtransactions that really stands out to me is Paper.io for mobile devices. In the game, you can buy skins for coins and you can buy coins with real money. The game lets you choose your nickname and acts like all muliplayer .io games. However, its all a ruse and you are always playing against AI that just has random skins and nicknames. So nobody will ever see your skin that you bought lol

[pearl tangle]

still plenty of "DLC" that is nothing useful or just tiny pieces. the tales games on steam lately are terrible with that. $20 and you get some DLC that lets you play through the game easier, on a single player game

[full junco]

well thats bad then

[pearl tangle]

yeah a lot of that going around. my point is though that more and more games are making money after the initial release, whether its microtransactions or DLC doesn't matter too much, the point is that they get the income from that only if people keep playing the game

[merry lichen]

Can someone explain what this function does

IsInLowPersistenceMode 

[pearl tangle]

should return a boolean value to let you know if the device is in low persistence mode or not?

[mighty carbon]

some more progress: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7MFOFItDD8

[merry lichen]

@pearl tangle But what is low persistance

[full junco]

@merry lichen that the display is basically black for most of the time

its nothing you can control

[merry lichen]

Ahh

[pearl tangle]

http://bfy.tw/BB8W pretty good explanation on there

[full junco]

@mighty carbon why do you have videos with tens or hundreds of thousands views but only 299 subscribers on your channel?

[mighty carbon]

because I don't post anything cool I guess 😃

[full junco]

well you have a video with almost 450k views

[mighty carbon]

I mostly post dev videos

and people don't care for dev videos apparently

if I could talk a lot of shit as many of youtubers do, I could have more subscribers (or if I made tutorials and could make it fun to watch by talking shit 😛 )

[full junco]

you have the views though, so some people were interested in what you posted

[mighty carbon]

yeah

[full junco]

and I just wonder why almost none of those are subscribers now

[mighty carbon]

I don't subscribe to many channels myself

just visit them every now and then

maybe that's what people do with my channel

I personally don't really care

I link my videos on Twitter and Facebook

[full junco]

I did a single video where I got 600k views, and still >2k people for some reason subscribed to my channel, I didnt ask for it and never uploaded anything again since then

[mighty carbon]

well, maybe I am under some curse spell 😛

[full junco]

and probably wont ever do

[mighty carbon]

I literally haven't had any luck with PR for my projects

[full junco]

you have a video with 450k views

I think thats enough for an indie game trailer lol

[mighty carbon]

yeah, that's because the game I made was reviewed by TotalBiscuit and free Episode 1 was downloaded crap load of times. At the time of release Linux didn't have too many games and a lot of Linux/FOSS oriented web outlets covered it

but without coverage from big shots, no one really cares

at least in my case

[full junco]

well yeah, thats how it works

[mighty carbon]

I am not really sure how I am going to PR this project

[full junco]

well I dont do dev videos because I want to surprise people, showing everything at once, not all the small things while they develop

[mighty carbon]

at this point it's all about who you know or if you have enough cash to pay for PR.. I don't have either, so my only chance really is for my stuff to get word of mouth PR

[pearl tangle]

once you get it to a certain point you could try and get a publisher involved

[mighty carbon]

well, if you don't show anything and then don't do massive PR, you will go under the radar

so it's better show small pieces

[full junco]

I dont think so

[mighty carbon]

surprise in VR comes from being there, hearing HRTF sounds, etc.

[full junco]

well yeah you can't really show that

[mighty carbon]

as 2D video it's not really that impressive, especially if one haven't tried VR

right, so you just show people what kind of stuff you are working on, the main theme, etc.

[full junco]

if the graphics are impressive, it can be impressive in a 2D video

[mighty carbon]

not for Gear VR.. People will judge it from non-VR perspective. However, if you compare it to common Gear VR titles, it's pretty good. So if a random person sees it, they might just shrug it off. So I need somehow to target Gear VR crowd, and people who are looking for VR devs.

@pearl tangle not for Gear VR though.. There isn't enough money to share with publisher

[full junco]

is there a popular gearvr subreddit?

[mighty carbon]

I wouldn't say it's popular, but there is one

[pearl tangle]

@mighty carbon there are several companies getting into gear vr stuff, oculus for 1. If you content is good enough you could get a publisher on board, just be prepared to hand over the rights and majority stake in your product but you can always just make another product after that

[full junco]

I wouldnt want to do anything with a publisher. I want to be able to do what I want

I think publisher doesn't work for things that are very unfinished on release

I want to keep working on it after release for one or two or threee or four years and maybe still completely change the game, I dont think thats something that works with a publisher 😛

[mighty carbon]

@pearl tangle If Oculus would come out and say they'd pay me flat fee for it to be released for free, I'd probably accept it 😃

[pearl tangle]

that seems highly unlikely. if you have a good sales pitch and content ready and go to them and ask for a regular publishing sort of deal where they would own the rights to it and pay you to do the development then thats a possibility

[full junco]

who wants to give away the rights for a game? I can only imagine people do that if they don't believe themselve that the game will be good

or if they think its completely impossible to make it good without publisher money

[mighty carbon]

@pearl tangle Oculus doesn't do publishing, nor keeping rights.. They already mentioned that several times. They fund devs, but I don't know the whole deal. I know that they have a dev fund (grant).

[pearl tangle]

plenty of people and companies do that. in fact a very large percentage of AAA games do that

[mighty carbon]

@full junco making a good game is one thing, selling it successfully is entirely different matter. You can find very decent games overlooked and some shitty games sold crazy well.

[full junco]

well the good games probably did something wrong then though

[mighty carbon]

just because you put a good game on the market doesn't mean it will sell well

[full junco]

maybe they are good, but not something that many people think is worth playing

[pearl tangle]

99% of indie games wont be sucessfull

[full junco]

or maybe there is better

good doesn't mean anything when there is anything better

[pearl tangle]

getting people to know about your stuff is a much bigger deal than creating the stuff

[mighty carbon]

yep

@full junco for me, all AAA games are better than indie games 😛

[full junco]

for VR, people are waiting enough for good games since there just aren't too many, so people are interested in new games if they look good

[pearl tangle]

and majority of them dont, and most of them will disappear down the steam list within 2 days at the moment from all the shit

[full junco]

well 2 days is a lot

[mighty carbon]

o.O

[pearl tangle]

not really. how many copies has your games sold so far?

[mighty carbon]

2 days is nothing

[full junco]

@pearl tangle none 😛

[mighty carbon]

ask @wicked oak

[full junco]

if you have to compete with other similar games, yeah

that was @wicked oak primary problem

[mighty carbon]

you always have games to compete wiht

[pearl tangle]

doesn't matter if its different ornot if people cant find it

[full junco]

and theres always reddit

[pearl tangle]

not like you can just search on steam for "cool totally different, amazing looking vr game"

not many people go on there to find a new game, they just look on steam or oculus store

[full junco]

r/vive has 71k subscribers