push black frame overriding everythingh
#virtual-reality
heady parrot
yes its broken in that SDK version
short locust
I mean, I copied the Robo way of doing things
But it's the SDK thing that's killing it, so it doesn't matter how we do it
short locust
I can pause on the loading screens and wait until 4.16 and hope they update
heady parrot
this is the SDK update that fixed the issue
https://github.com/Oculus-VR/UnrealEngine/commit/14a14913a3004dc1b58a27716519cc2c70944559
in 4.14 that is
I dont know why Epic didnt update the Oculus SDK in 4.15
1.12 integration for 4.15 is out btw
stable shadow
Hello guys I need a little help to find equal to this code from OuclusRiftRender to SteamVRRender :
FIntRect SrcViewRect(FrameSettings->EyeRenderViewport[0]); i need equal to this in SteamVRRender ...
heady parrot
oooh 1.12 has GPU multi-view support ๐
short locust
Nice
heady parrot
Hey @full junco OVR 1.12 for UE 4.15 has this fix which might be causing your flickering?
"Fixed Adaptive Pixel Density flickering when ASW is enabled"
full junco
@heady parrot ASW is oculus stuff
heady parrot
oh I thought you were doing your dev on Oculus first ๐ sorry my bad
full junco
I don't use oculus, so it very likely won't have to do anything with it
wicked oak
at the moment im PSVR first
i tried the robo recall method, it worked half the time
the other half reprojection would kick in and i would get that artifact ๐ฆ
so i just go to a black void with a massive LOADING banner
full junco
@heady parrot I only have a vive
heady parrot
@wicked oak Do you have access to Epic's Perforce server? I sometimes cherrypick fixes from there ahead of major releases
short locust
Fingers crossed for 4.16 then, I hope you get it working
heady parrot
meh, 4.16 still has OVR 1.10 SDK :/
full junco
updating a sdk manually usually isn't hard
heady parrot
its not, but they are both using the launcher build
wicked oak
@heady parrot nope
thats for UDN
i once did have access to that
but not anymore ๐ฆ
full junco
@heady parrot well switching from launcher to source also isn't hard and has many advantages
wicked oak
i use both
rip HDD
but my team members use base 4.15
or whatever
so my perforce server version is on the launcher build
but i develop on my own 4.15 sourcecode build
heady parrot
well this CL might interest you, whats coming soon :)
"Implement common stereo layer management base class and use it in SteamVR and PS4. Fixes an outstanding bug in SteamVR where texures are updated every frame regardles of whether the continous update flag is set or not."
heady parrot
this is from.. last week
wicked oak
@heady parrot i sent the game to VR consultation
heady parrot
@wicked oak How are you getting the PSVR sources if you aren't on UDN or Perforce?
wicked oak
they give you an FTP
heady parrot
ah yeah, I just heard about that new step yesterday.. curious to see what it is
wicked oak
its simple
short locust
I'm pulling the Oculus branch now. Busy day as I'm also building the UWP build to play with
full junco
I also want to have access to all branches... especially dev-vr and dev-rendering
wicked oak
they give you access to a ftp server
that has a "ue4-ps4" folder
that folder has a bunch of .zip
each of them corresponds to a specific engine version
its not just "ue4.15"
heady parrot
yeah none of this is in main yet, I just checked
wicked oak
but the full changelist number
heady parrot
ah gotcha
wicked oak
so its more like UE4.15.0-CL1234321234
i go to github, get the engine
and then grab the nearest .zip
that .zip contains the extra code you need
full junco
and how to you add that zip?
wicked oak
you unzip it on top of the github engine version
full junco
how annoying. they should really make that stuff available in github for those who should receive it
heady parrot
licensing issues :S
full junco
why?
heady parrot
Sony
full junco
I mean, what's the difference between github and ftp server regarding licensing?
wicked oak
becouse that ftp is manually checked by epic games
heady parrot
and not in the hands of a third party
wicked oak
they will only give you access to it once you verify with epic + sony
and they can check that in fact, you do have access to ps4 developer sites
full junco
they could also give you access to a specific github repo, that's not an issue
wicked oak
did you know that in 4.7, there was a bug in the launcher that downloaded the console sources too?
i reported that to Epic silently, got a Nvidia shield as "bug bounty"
full junco
lol
wicked oak
it would have been a HUGE SHITSTORM if it went public
they hotpatched it like 30 minutes after i reported it
full junco
too bad it didn't went public
wicked oak
it did
for a while, everyone that had the 4.7 source code version installed from the launcher had the ps4/xbox engine code
wicked oak
when i saw it i thought it was super fishy, so i PMd Chance
turns out Xbox is DX11 LOL
with some extensions
ps4 uses its own API
its slightly similar to DX12 or Vulkan
with the whole command list recording and the like
heady parrot
the Xbox can do DX12, but its in progress last I knew
wicked oak
they have DX11 + extensions, so not much of a difference anyway
heady parrot
DX12 in general hasnt been doing too well
wicked oak
ps4 uses a api called GNM, and GNMX
the GNMX is a bit more high level, somewhat like Opengl
heady parrot
sounds like AMD stuff ๐
wicked oak
it actually comes from Ps3
heady parrot
oh ok
full junco
since they use amd gpus, why did they create their own api for them?
they could have used mantle or whatever
full junco
ah
wicked oak
they made their own high performance low level api
it does look like Vulkan
with the multithread command list creation
thats the reason my game runs faster on ps4
my game has a whole lot of drawcalls, but no overdraw and not that much shader complexity either, so the biggest bottleneck is drawcalls
full junco
I just want vr vulkan support on PC
wicked oak
and turns out, multithread lightweight drawcall creation runs fast
heady parrot
any reason you prefer Vulkan over say DX12? I havent been following it much lately so curious ๐
full junco
I don't want to use Windows 10
heady parrot
hah ok ๐
wicked oak
but then you have apple
Vulkan runs on windows, linux, Android, and the Switch
and the ps4 api is similar
if apple actually supported vulkan, it would be damn near to be the ultimate graphics api
full junco
for Apple there's that vulkan to metal stuff
wicked oak
bullshit
that doesnt work well
its basically emulation
they want to make devs use Metal
so they are locked into the platform
like with the Swift lenguage
thats the whole reason they did Metal and refuse to support new opengl
or vulkan
full junco
metal was created before vulkan
heady parrot
ugh.. why does no one understand that developers dont want to support platform-specific APIs? it sucks up a ton of time ๐
full junco
they had to do their own
heady parrot
sunset it and go with Vulkan then? ๐
wicked oak
but then they refuse to support vulkan, and they refuse to upgrade opengl
in desktop
Macs are at opengl 3.3
heady parrot
well Im glad I dont make games that support Mac ๐
wicked oak
opengl is at 4.5 version right now
full junco
can't you make a graphics driver for Mac that just supports vulkan?
full junco
thought for a second the triangle count would be the draw call count...
wicked oak
this is on Forward btw
full junco
then it would have made sense that it's slow lll
wicked oak
also the most stressful part view
but its still 2k drawcalls
the ps4 crunches thgrough it like nothing
heady parrot
but yeah its amazing how much modern hardware can actually do
heady parrot
really? we use them a ton, even on the PS4
full junco
instanced stereo is slooooow
full junco
yeah because you have many draw calls
wicked oak
again, bounded by drawcalls, instanced stereo halves it
full junco
I'm completely gpu bound
full junco
lol? In vr you are usually gpu bound
wicked oak
at least with gpu bound you can just lower the resolution
full junco
almost always
wicked oak
CPU bound is not so easy
heady parrot
on the PS4 it is ๐
full junco
and I made my code super threaded, so I spread cpu stuff enough for never having an issue with the cpu
heady parrot
if you got threaded code then the PS4 CPU crunches it yes ๐
but a lot of people who dev PC first then port to PS4 run into CPU issues
heady parrot
I had left the team at that point, but it was a ton of effort ๐ I took part in some of it but wasnt there for the real crunch
I will be doing that process for my current game soon-ish ๐
short locust
I'm only loading in one very small map at a time for my work projects. So I treat them like Tech Demos and throw everything I can at them.
They'll never be viewed on anything less than a 1070, I've got 4k textures on everything, it's hilarious.
wicked oak
just tested 4.15 Forward + Msaa plus more than 10 hours of Production lightbakes
on a Release build, for Oculus
heady parrot
hehehe ๐ we did a lot of 4k textures on the original Valkyrie prototype too
heady parrot
forward+msaa is great yeah
wicked oak
the Ps4 optimizations also allows me to have higher frames, and 4.15 is more optimized for the forward renderer
heady parrot
plenty more forward path goodies coming in future releases ๐
4.15 seems to have fixed the masked materials not being AA
short locust
I'm going to have to start concentrating on optimisations now. I've just finished my wife's PhD software and I'm going to start on my game. Should be fun.
heady parrot
they seem to have an idea for how to support dynamic shadows, but not sure if we are getting that in .16 or not
Keep us updated on progress MrCheese and when you got something to show ๐
short locust
Will do. I literally started today.
short locust
I have some updates from feedback my wife got today to do at the weekend and then it's going to Unreal Dev Grants to see if they can help me work on it more.
heady parrot
nah some of their optimizations relied on some G buffers iirc
glossy agate
Is PSVR made to run at 70 or 90 FPS?
heady parrot
it can do 60, 90 and 120
zinc violet
heady parrot
wait a minute.. someone is saying .15 has dynamic shadow support
wicked oak
PSVR has 60 fps "timewarped" to 120, 90 fps native, 120 fps native
full junco
@heady parrot dynamic shadows work fine on forward
heady parrot
on moving lights?
full junco
yes
heady parrot
not in 4.14 they didnt
full junco
yeah, support was added in 4.15
heady parrot
nice!
full junco
just SSAO doesnt work ๐ฆ
heady parrot
yeah that doesnt surprise me
full junco
HBAO+ does work, but it super slow in VR
short locust
Yeah, I have a torch in my 4.15 work stuff. It works great.
heady parrot
neat! great news ๐ this was one of our concerns for a while, but we didnt have a major need for movable shadows in our current game.. it was a "nice to have" but not a necessity
short locust
I have AA off completely, I need people to be able to carry an image around with them that they can actually read.
and scroll around.
heady parrot
you should try MSAA in forward ๐ its great
short locust
I might, but as I said, I get the rare opportunity of having a 1070 as minimum spec, so I just set screen percentage to 200 instead ๐
tired tree
MSAA is better than SP 200
short locust
Even for jamming an 8k texture in front of your face and reading it?
heady parrot
yes
short locust
I'm loading construvction plans on to an object and they have to be able to read them
full junco
MSAA looks bad on certain stuff
short locust
construction*
full junco
it doesnt fix aliasing in textures
tired tree
MSAA looks terrible on planer geometry
full junco
I have set many of my textures to unfiltered because I want a pixelated look on the texture, and MSAA absolutely hates that
heady parrot
and yeah some geo can trigger it too
full junco
and oculus adaptive quality seems to set the ResolutionOverrideRect of the scene view, that looks very nice
looks like that could easily be done for vive too
short locust
This is what I mean
heady parrot
Does anyone here use Child Actor Components? Its a feature I love the idea behind but multiple times I've wanted to throw my desk out the window because of issues with them ๐
tl;dr They are fine if you use them on a single actor and never ever inherit that actor
.. mostly
short locust
Yeah. I used one for attaching a wrist connected menu system
I didn't work properly, so I killed it off
heady parrot
just hope that is all you'll do with it ๐ its weird it takes and serializes the spawned actor into the archive for the owning parent
haha figures
Im going back to spawning and managing sub actors on my own
short locust
That's what I did
That part of the image you can see is about 1/12 of the full image
You need to be ablle to see the shape when zoomed out and read the text when zoomed in
heady parrot
try MSAA ๐ MSAA is literally about rendering the whole scene in a higher resolution and then downscaling with sampling
short locust
There is much smaller text on the other parts too
tired tree
does it HAVE to be a 3d object?
short locust
I'll give it a go
tired tree
that is pretty much made for stereo layers
heady parrot
they are broken in both 4.14 and .15 for Oculus, but like I point out above you can fix that by integrating a newer Oculus SDK yourself
short locust
The object needs to follow you around while you look at the stuff in the background
It's the plans for the stuff in the background and people have to be able to check the build against the plans and spot the mistakes
So, having it a 3D object people can postion themselves works great
No HUD, because they're going to be getting thier face right in that thing. Hence the stupid levels of texturing
I just pulled the Oculus branch down, I'm gonna try that out tomorrow
heady parrot
still sounds like something that can be handled with good AA and filtering
short locust
kool.
heady parrot
also for VR thin black lines on white background look better than white on black, so you already got that helping you
tired tree
would work way better as an actual vector implementation rather than an image
short locust
I haven't really tested AA since I moved on the Forward REndering
tired tree
but obviously that takes a lot more work
heady parrot
it easy, just set it to MSAA in the options and then you set the MSAA samplex (like 8x) in .ini file or a console command
full junco
can I somehow emulate running a rift? just want to be able to step through the oculus code in UE4 ๐
heady parrot
dont believe so? some parts of the runtime live in the Oculus runtime
there is the UE4 integration, then the OVR SDK and that communicates with the runtime
wicked oak
@short locust use stereo layers
that way its outside of the world
yes, you can do that
sturdy coral
@short locust do you have mip levels for that texture? looks like undersampling
wicked oak
i use that for the HUD, they are perfect resolution
full junco
@wicked oak did you get them to work with UMG?
sturdy coral
@full junco mitch put up a tutorial for them with UMG: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxFqUDW5-fE
full junco
ah, interesting
full junco
I only know that when I tried world position and rotation always wanted to be wrong
short locust
There are no mips on it
wicked oak
even if the layer is world locked?
short locust
Gimme a mo, I'll a stereo layer and see how it looks
full junco
sturdy coral
without mips TAA will usually make it look fairly ok, but any other AA method is going to have lots of undersampling
unless you get it close to where texel density drops below pixel density
mighty carbon
has anyone gotten cubemap world aligned Stereo Layer working ?
mighty carbon
@raven halo ^^ ?
short locust
Ok, so the Stereo layer looked sweet. Thanks @wicked oak et al
Now I need to figure out how to zoom and scroll on it
mighty carbon
aye
alpine torrent
heady parrot
I fear MS is doing its own thing in the corner and its going to be bad ๐ฆ at least judging by people who have tried the upcoming Windows VR headsets
sturdy coral
they still haven't shown any motion controllers have they? just that air pinch gesture from Hololens?
mighty carbon
I had a feeling MS will pull that kind of trick on VR
heady parrot
most of these are from 3rd party vendors they work with, I dont think I've seen one made by them
mighty carbon
I don't see how they can beat PSVR with such horrible VR on Project Scorpio
heady parrot
agreed, they better pull out a decent headset for Scorpio
wicked oak
or add Oculus support
wich is not that strange
given that they gave Oculus some windows 10 improvements and the 360 controllers
heady parrot
thats what I thought at first, but given their effort to push their own "Windows AR/VR" hardware I'm starting to think not
mighty carbon
I started to think not when Zeni vs Ocu went public and about at the same time MS removed any mention of "VR" from project scorpio.
I bet they got spooked that Zeni can shut down Oculus or stop Rift sales and whatnot and decided to not deal with it until it's 100% clear and safe
and then they figured they can make quick buck with their own VR HMD ๐
alpine torrent
some research things to make from low end to high end
vagrant mantle
While teleporting the camera sets to the actor's origin in GearVR any suggestions?
sturdy coral
@vagrant mantle we'll need a lot more details than that, are you using a spring arm?
vagrant mantle
I'm using the default motion controller pawn blueprint from vr template
It's working perfectly in the editor but this happens in the buikd
sturdy coral
@vagrant mantle look into the teleport code, maybe it is checking the HMD name to do something different between rift and Vive and isn't checking for gear
vagrant mantle
I have deleted everything thing in the event graph
I have tried with a first person character also same thing happens
sturdy coral
@vagrant mantle are you using the Teleport blueprint function?
short moat
I'm trying to set/change the 'Virtual User Index' on an existing WidgetInteractionComponent in a blueprint but even when I call set, it doesnt change in the instance. Can anyone tell me why?
mighty carbon
maybe you should have started with basic FPS template (non-VR) and build it up slowly to where you wanted it to be?
short moat
Well we have started from a base template and built it up. We're a trying to get networked umg stuff working - we're 95% of the way there but just cant get round this issue
we're using the MordenTral template, have networked players spawning but have an issue where one persons pointer controls all players selection location on umg widgets
we're fairly sure its this but although when debugging the blueprints the widget interaction components VUI seems to change, however the value in the world outliner doesn't update
full junco
for those here that saw GC problems this might be nice ๐ http://puu.sh/uJ2OW/35bbc118a2.png
heady parrot
ok cool, Ive had to work around GC-related issues in the past
full junco
I never had GC problems
mighty carbon
what are clusters?
heady parrot
the times I've had problems, usually its a hard pointer or adding a MarkPendingKill() call as well as destroy has fixed it
short moat
when using vr preview, do the values against components in the world outliner get updated in realtime?
rustic cargo
Hey guys, I'll be driving up from LA to Silicon Valley in 2 weeks for SVVR. Might be cool to organize a UE VR lunch or dinner?
I dont have to be back in LA for a while after ... so there might be some potential for Spring Jam collaboration that weekend
granite jacinth
@rustic cargo Come to East Coast
rustic cargo
west coast best coast
granite jacinth
๐ญ
rustic cargo
i grew up in Charlotte - not much of a VR scene there :-p
digital marlin
Hey Victor, does your game use a locomotion system or something?
heady parrot
Any of you played around with the Vive trackers yet? I got some locomotion ideas to prototype, but they do require leg tracking ๐
digital marlin
I think @clever sky is playing with em.
clever sky
No, that's Zoltanjr
digital marlin
Oh, soz. Got my Z's wrong.
clever sky
I'd like to do some leg tracking locomotion if I had tehm ๐
digital marlin
heh
heady parrot
Im wondering about signing up, especially since we are already doing full body IK. Just not sure I got enough spare time atm ๐
right now they want devs signing up to have an immediate use for em
I think theyre available to purchase for anyone soon anyways
clever sky
I think they had enough people applying with the same leg locomotion idea as I did ๐
granite jacinth
@digital marlin The school project I am working on uses the trackpad on the vive sadly. I was trying to do RIP but, failed pretty hard and was on a time crunch. So sacrifices were made.
TBH, once you are comfortable with it, the trackpad isn't a terrible way to move. But yeah, would prefer a RIP solution.
I have a week or so, until the next quarter starts up to experiment and see if I can get RIP working properly
clever sky
Good luck! Like to see various RIP implementations.
digital marlin
RIP?
granite jacinth
Run-In-Place
granite jacinth
Ah yeah, the jump is trigger
I had to add an FOV reducer to help with VR sickness
But, once people get comfortable, they don't need it anymore
digital marlin
Is the FOV reduction only during movement?
I came across that with another game and I was surprised with how well it worked.
granite jacinth
Yeah only on movement
digital marlin
cool
granite jacinth
Yeah, I am trying to make it dynamic
clever sky
In my game? ๐
granite jacinth
@clever sky is yours dynamic or just static?
digital marlin
What's your game, Zap?
granite jacinth
(as in, does it close tighter as you move faster)
digital marlin
Is that downloadable?
clever sky
Not dynamic based on speed. dynamic based on type of motion.
granite jacinth
Hmm, how did you get it scaling properly?
digital marlin
This was like a wave shooter, the name escapes me.
granite jacinth
oh
clever sky
I found changing it based on speed a little distracting.
granite jacinth
yeah, I was trying to do it based on speed, so it would lerp/scale down from the edges slowly, instead of just popping in
clever sky
@digital marlin yeah, you can grab it on Steam now
granite jacinth
Yeah, I don't think anyone has complained about it just being there
clever sky
Yeah you can do that. Just have it update on a tick
and have the tick read the speed value
granite jacinth
Your eyes tunnel anyway naturally
clever sky
digital marlin
oh snap.
I was play testing another game and the bloke wouldn't accept that I was getting motion sickness from his control scheme.
clever sky
Haha... what kinda scheme was it?
clever sky
Yeah. ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
I figure that anything that attracts reasonable attention will also attract the attention of dipshits ๐
digital marlin
The scheme was just.. addActorOffset
I was whinging hard about it. It ruined my day
I was like "No, you gotta change this. "
unique notch
@clever sky nice work!
digital marlin
"People will just get use to it. Like back in the day, how people would get headaches from video games."
@clever sky Yep.
clever sky
Ah the sliding camp.
digital marlin
His was attached to the HMD though
digital marlin
Yeah
clever sky
Gotta cater to sliders even if I have no love for them ๐
Otherwise they'll come in with their BS and ruin your day!
And I'm not someone doing just teleporting!
digital marlin
teleporting is okay for certain things.
But we need to think outside of that, I guess.
full junco
now that I look through UE4s HMD implementations, its really noticeable how theres just a lot more oculus code than steamvr code
glossy agate
Saw only one thumb down on Steam for it. About to try in a minute.
Freedom locomotion is pretty cool man! Does arm swinging help you move faster?
climbing was pretty cool
full junco
as an example, a function that oculus library implemented is 192 lines. same function implemented in steamvr is 65 lines.
full junco
no ๐
digital marlin
heh
clever sky
@glossy agate Cheers. Yeah, arm movement helps to move you faster when jogging and running.
But you should swing your arms naturally like when jogging/running IRL.
Not VR arm swinger style ๐
digital marlin
pearl tangle
@clever sky big changes since the original prototype i tested out im guessing?
clever sky
@pearl tangle The one I sent you a few months back - yes.
pearl tangle
maange to get it going on the rift as well or just vive still?
clever sky
They work perfectly on both now ๐
pearl tangle
oh nice. I could see it being more useful to me on the rift with the damn front facing only setup hah
clever sky
Actually probably a little bit better on the Rift because of stick and more buttons.
I have a dedicated turn button on the Rift.
Yeah, it works really well with front facing as well. I even have a back facing indicator to prompt you to turn around
(optional, can turn off in the menu)
pearl tangle
did you manage to integrate into robo recall already?
clever sky
Not yet. Planning to, but have been busy on other work.
pearl tangle
I wonder how the new game from the survios guys handles theirs compared to your setup
clever sky
They're doing arm-swinger.
It's just a take on arm-swinger - where you accelerate if you keep a steady swinging rhythm
They also have climbing acceleration and jump -> short flight
pearl tangle
they haven't got any actual head bounce calculation stuff going on?
clever sky
Didn't look like it. I was watching the Tested guys preview it.
No mention of head track from any one.
pearl tangle
looks like a decent bit of fun still
clever sky
Yeah. I'll be lining up to try it.
pearl tangle
I have a Fove headset here I haven't done anything with yet too, wonder how well eye tracking could come in to assist in the direction for 1 like that where it's essentially a straight infinite runner type thing
clever sky
Not sure if I'd incorporate eye tracking into locomotion.
pearl tangle
not for a full 3D type 1 sure. But since that is just straight on you could potentially do some interesting stuff with it. Even if its just targetting some stuff a bit better
pearl tangle
yeah something. I am keen to play around with it, just don't have the time
I just bought 5 Pixels n Daydream Views yesterday too to replace our Gear VR collection ๐
Also epic needs to get on this
clever sky
Sweet
pearl tangle
we just need to turn the engine into a multiplayer game and we are set
I still prefer the VR editor idea in unity rather than unreal. Get rid of the laser pointers and just pick up objects with physics would be a great option to have in 4.16
clever sky
Yeah. Seems like Unity/UE are really closest to making the metaverse ๐
They just need to tweak it to be more 'fun'
rather than utilitarian.
rustic cargo
and social
clever sky
Yes
pearl tangle
yeah the VR editor can really take off and be an actual go to tool for level design within the next 12 months or so I think.
The idea of multiple people on a computer and multiple in VR creating a level at the same time is very interesting
clever sky
They've also got mesh editing going on.
Next they need texture painter. They've got a rigging tool
then they need an animation tool.
And it'll be set!
pearl tangle
they have the texture painter in there already and you can use sequencer in there too
its more that for me I want to just be able to grab an object and move and scale it around more in the way you do in a game with 2 hands rather than using the laser pointers and dials
they are thinking too much like developers and not enough like the users
digital marlin
I couldn't read a single thing in the VR editor.
pearl tangle
The new VR editor looks like a much better idea
mighty carbon
finally solved anim montage playback and notifies ๐
clever sky
I gotta say... Ironwolf VR is a super meh experience for me :P
I mean, it's a great simulation...
But it turns out been stuck in a WW2 sub isn't exactly exciting.
mighty carbon
๐
pearl tangle
you are rigging up all of your components with hand built animation for everything they do @mighty carbon ?
mighty carbon
what do you mean, @pearl tangle ?
anims are where needed.. Stuff like basic movement and moving along splines is done via code (BP)
also, anims can be running on working threads, and BP code runs on only one thread. So having anims vs BP-coded is beneficial for performance
pearl tangle
any other reason that you didn't just go for animating them using sequencer along the splines and whatnot?
mighty carbon
that's overkill imo
it's so much easier to animate simple things like that in Blender, build montage, play it and then at some point send actor along the spline
I already made common class for that, so it's just a matter of a few clicks in order to send an actor along spline
Perhaps it's easier doing it using Sequencer, I don't know
mighty carbon
how would it be easier to animate movement along spline in Sequencer ? (I assume I wouldn't need any triggers and I could just use anim notifies to kick off events when needed on the spline)
hate is just a word, @digital marlin ๐
why don't you like Blender ?
I mean, I hated it for the first month or so, but once I got familiar with workflow and UI, I kept using it
@pearl tangle quick google search yields nothing about moving actors on splines using Sequencer. Are you sure it's achievable ?
pearl tangle
yep done it dozens of times
actually a really simple way of doing it is using the "camera rig rail" and then to move the element along the spline its just moving updating its value from 0-1. Zero being the start, 1 being the end. Can do that directly in sequencer super easily
A skiing game 1 that I built did exactly that, saves doing your own spline position transform stuff too. Then you can trigger off specific events in sequencer. 4.15 gave some nice updates in that side of things for passing across values and whatnot in there too. sequencer is quite amazing
mighty carbon
any tutorials available ?
digital marlin
nah nothing against blender I guess
It's free. It works. I shouldn't be a tool.
I just found the GUI to be really frustrating - particularly if I resize viewports.
reef vigil
Blender takes some getting used to, but once you're comfortable with it you can really fly. It's got the best flow of any modeling software I've used
digital marlin
What do you guys think of Modo (if you've ever tried it) ?
reef vigil
I played around with it a bit, I liked it. The UI is really clean and nice. I would like to play with it more someday. The retopo and UV tools seem pretty sharp maybe could replace Maya for that. The price tag is quite steep though
mighty carbon
Modo? It's not free ๐
There is no way I am switching from Blender any time soon
vagrant mantle
@sturdy coral no everything custom made functions only
@mighty carbon hi motorsep
alpine torrent
think AR, VR. MR people edit the same project at the same time
pearl tangle
@mighty carbon Epic did a couple of tutorials on sequencer. But just try dropping the camera rig into your scene, draw out the spline path and then just create a sequence with it on there and you will instantly be able to animate it along the path
stable shadow
Hello guys i need some help to replace this line of code from OculusRiftRender.cpp to SteamVRRender.cpp ,
FIntRect SrcViewRect(FrameSettings->EyeRenderViewport[0]);
This is from OculusRiftRender & i need similar code in SteamVRRender ... Thanks
pearl tangle
replace it with what?
stable shadow
Yes i need that exactly what i must use for that
pearl tangle
still dont understand the question. You want to replace a line of code, what do you want to replace it with?
stable shadow
I edit SteamVRRender, to add some line of codes from OculusRiftRender.cpp, There's a line in OculusRiftRender FIntRect SrcViewRect(FrameSettings->EyeRenderViewport[0]); that i can't find how to rewrite this in SteamVRRender.cpp
I need SrcViewRect in SteamVRRender.cpp
pearl tangle
so whats the functionality that you actually need to achieve?
pearl tangle
anybody done much with the mobile tilt/gravity side of things outside of VR?Essentially replicating the functionality without using the stereo warp for people not in a headset?
stable shadow
It will uses on render size window
pearl tangle
there are a bunch of forks of the engine showing how to do that already adding in alternative mirror modes that will get you what you want
a lot of forum posts too that show what you need
trail shale
Is there a way to use an Oculus DK2 to the current Unreal Version? Even if I disabled some VR features could it work?
pearl tangle
you would have to update the old oculus stuff to work with the new version but it's pretty unlikely
pearl tangle
dont think so. The oculus sdk was all updated and it doesn't support dk2 anymore and unreal is running the new oculus stuff. no idea if steam vr would handle it still though
you can just use 4.7 or 8 and it should work
tired tree
mmmm
they say its "unsupported" but "may work"
and DK2 users are still playing games from Oculus home
they just flipped the switch and responsibility if something breaks with it
brittle crystal
How would one implement finger movement like this? Create a grab animation for each finger and then somehow stop the animation as soon as it collides with something? https://youtu.be/xkCt17JHEzY?t=105
tired tree
lol, thier implementation is so much worse than that space games implementation.
brittle crystal
What space game?
tired tree
I can't remember the name of it right now, but it lerps each finger into position over time until contact
they have it working really smoothly
brittle crystal
Yeah, their animation is pretty bad (there isn't really one, lol). But still better than what UE usually has, like at 1:25
tired tree
that isn't UE's fault though, its not that hard to implement per finger contact
Jonas was playing around with it too
mighty carbon
~8k for cheapest setup ๐ฆ
just hardware
for the first year software is free, then 50% off
(which is like $2.5k annually)
dusk vigil
@tired tree re : DK2, recently tested it on Unreal, worked fine in editor, works in Oculus Home, steamVR have not tried but see no reason why it should not work
mighty carbon
http://vuze.camera/product/he_camera/ << not cheap, but stereo 360 deg. VR
stable shadow
@pearl tangle Really, I couldn't find anything for mirror window editing, can you send some of them for me please
pearl tangle
look up vive fullscreen mirror
@mighty carbon the perception neuron is your best bet for doing decentish motion capture. otherwise go with a kinect
mighty carbon
have you tried iPi Soft with several PS Eye cams, @pearl tangle ?
pearl tangle
nah did with kinects
mighty carbon
but what software did you use to record and process data ?
pearl tangle
motion builder previously
mighty carbon
what do you use nowadays ?
pearl tangle
havent been doing any for a fair while but I have a perception neuron and access to an optitrack setup
mighty carbon
I see
Perception Neuron isn't cheap and too fiddly ๐ฆ
I think iPiSoft is the most affordable option currently
pearl tangle
2 kinects does a decent job but not as accurate as the perception neuron still. easier to occlude things. perception neuron sits at mid level in price and quality.
spiral zephyr
dramamine is more controversial than weed for me :p
i know weed works great though
full junco
@stable shadow there is no equivalent to that variable in steamvr
I spent many hours with that code today to implement adaptive pixel density in steamvr
thanks to @candid viper for suggesting to look at the oculus code
stable shadow
@full junco I'm trying to make something like the Leaderboard window in desktop like RoboRecall, but i couldn't yet, For example i tried to include SteamVRFunctionLibrary or ISteamVRPlugin in my project but not working and i got errors, did you try to include those files ?
full junco
you have to add the steamvr module to your build.cs for being able to include those files
stable shadow
already added
full junco
then what errors do you get?
stable shadow
for ISteamVRPlugin i've openvr.h not found, and for the SteamVRFunctionLibrary an error about my custom function, but engine compiled without any error
full junco
you also have to add the openvr module
stable shadow
thanks the module name is same openvr in lowercase?
full junco
I think it's OpenVR
stable shadow
ok i'll try it
mighty carbon
eternal inlet
@tired tree I was gonna go more into depth with it, but my solution currently only uses one single animation. I was hoping to add 2-3 more depending on what angle, size possibly other parameters, and then choose an appropriate animation to use as animation and then just do what i do today, trace along animationpaths til i hit something
Lonestar may do it in a more sophisticated way (i hope), and if someone at GDC saw their talk, i hope they can tell more about the approach
tired tree
Wish IK was a little less cpu intensive
its the obvious choice
IK target the hit location on the finger bone chain
eternal inlet
yes
i actually asked IKinema about it... for some reason they didn't wanna comment much on it
tired tree
I had finger IK going for my controller arm tests in my original template
tired tree
just do the simple way, use a FABRIK node
eternal inlet
FABRIK doesnt allow setting up constraint limits does it?
full junco
and the ikinema plug in only works with launcher builds, so it's kinda useless anyways
eternal inlet
fingers would end up flipping back
tired tree
problem is also held items need to not be late updated
eternal inlet
@full junco yes for those advanced enough to modify the engine themselves... unless u buy their shitless expensive one which includes sourcecode if im not mistaken...
tired tree
unless you are just hand mesh
eternal inlet
soon as im done with a project here for a customer, im gonna return to experiment with it
or rather experiment with the trace-version
i still think we can get pretty good results from that
3-4 animations, a bit of python to export baked keys, and some traces
aand some logic to decide which animation is best to use
tired tree
ik is best quality result, animation is cheapest
mighty carbon
let's make Quake for Gear VR !
tired tree
ok, go and aim with vision, have fun
eternal inlet
hehe
tired tree
Still think I should release a challenge game that just throws all of the worst VR sickness things at you
eternal inlet
hehe, like the barf station is not enough?
tired tree
pfft, my son doesn't even notice that thing
spiral zephyr
it would have to include constant randomized visual puzzles so we know people arent closing their eyes
tired tree
I am immune to all sickness EXCEPT for that platform, but like 6 12 year olds don't even notice it
island 359 wanting that feature...sure hope their platforms are large enough to avoid the invection
tired tree
its not, he could have built incoming changes from Github or has a typo
or that was preview 1
mighty carbon
I see
mighty carbon
any idea when 4.15.1 is out officially ?
glossy agate
@tired tree make your game put a bunch of invisible "fire impulse" BP's around the map so the player just gets thrown around with no control haha
And randomly take away camera control for a couple seconds
alpine torrent
guys https://youtu.be/VipgmnfrBMc FCAT VR from Nvidia
@full junco you asked the runtime
full junco
@alpine torrent ?
full junco
@alpine torrent but I never asked about anything like that
its surely a nice tool for measuring performance
stat unitgraph in UE4 isnt that different though
eternal inlet
cool stuff with the cloth and dangly bits stuff ๐
would love to see that in vr
mighty carbon
what would it take to make Robo Recall multiplayer mod ?
candid viper
The FABRIK node included in UE doesn't have constraint support. It's not too difficult to add, but it tends to reduce the ability of fabrik to solve well for more involved chains. One thing that helps is starting from a known good pose rather than a base pose - if you have a pose you know is near the desired result using that as a starting point tends to give nicer results. UE does have the LegIK node - that is a Fabrik chain with constraints, but it is limited to solving a line of joints sharing a plane - so hinge joints. Epic added it for Paragon to handle multi jointed legs, but for solving fingers... despite the name it may well do the job.
eternal inlet
interresting @candid viper ... i can imagine the LegIK as you describe it, would fit well for finger IK. Although fingers has an extra joint to get solved. I don't know anything really about IK solving, so don't know what implications that will have for solving logic.
mighty carbon
@wicked oak any idea what would it take to make Robo Recall multiplayer mod ?
candid viper
@eternal inlet Ik solving varies a lot depending on what you're solving and the method. Fastest is geometric - the 2 bone solver. That is just basic trig. Next comes fabrik. Usually 4 iterations will give a good result, with around 8 being the max. So solving the same leg chain as you could use 2-bone with is slower with fabrik, but not massively so. That's generalising. Last stage is speed is usually those that actually try to solve "correctly". That can still be quite quick, but is slower. It can come into it's own when solving multiple chains at once. My multiple chains I don't mean multiple fingers - they are likely to be independant chains for what you want. Rather, I mean solving two arms trying to reach goals pulling on a common body - that kind of branching problem is where costs tend to escalate. For ik on fingers, a LegIk chain per finger is something I doubt you'd notice cpu wise. What tends to be ingored with IK is the cost of finding the goal - for example with normal leg IK the trace to find the ground is often a more expensive than the IK solve itself.
wicked oak
@mighty carbon somewhere around a complete total rewrite of the game
the game has no replication at all
and its not made for it
its all based on physics, and physics dont replicate
mighty carbon
I see
eternal inlet
@candid viper i see... you know of some solid articles that talk about the theory behind IK solving besides what you mentioned? Would be interresting to look into. I mean litterature that aren't totally science-gibberish ๐
mighty carbon
Not everything needs to be replicated. A lot of stuff should run client-side only.
glossy agate
I want to try that immediate mode physics in VR. Anyone know of a performant way to have like 200 characters in game? I have done about 20 zombies using physics anims before it gets really costly. Maybe some kind of character instancing or something?
odd garnet
I want to do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQy7C1RowB0
But in VR, I see how things are managed through the camera and screen size.
What problems would I face and how to fix them?
candid viper
@eternal inlet Best link for Frabik I've seen is probably this: http://wiki.roblox.com/index.php?title=Inverse_kinematics
It isn't soo heavy on the maths, but shows how fabrik works, including with constraints.
real needle
@odd garnet I did that over a year ago, biggest issue is that you don't have any parallax through the doors, it's just flat
odd garnet
Aww @real needle
deft badge
Howdy all. Here's a hypothetical for you all....
If you found a locomotion method, that worked better than any other, that was adjustable to different levels of VR sickness sensitivity, allowed free walking and running, handled hills, ramps and stairs....
How would you capitalize on it?
clever sky
Does it already exist in some form?
granite jacinth
@deft badge I would make a game in secret
deft badge
@clever sky, yes
granite jacinth
And when 85%-95% complete, start marketing the hell out of it
granite jacinth
Not saying someone else may not beat you to it before then
clever sky
Really depends on your objective.
granite jacinth
๐
clever sky
But, reality is, people's preference for locomotion varies widely.
deft badge
๐
deft badge
@clever sky Yeah, I agree. It is adjustable like I said.
clever sky
Wide testing is best for ascertaining that your system works as well as you think/hope it does.
granite jacinth
You build the game yourself, and maybe make a hit, or it could suck balls gameplay wise and no one will talk about your game or locomotion system
clever sky
But at the same time, kinda reveals the cards.
mighty carbon
oh @granite jacinth is back!
granite jacinth
OR You can let me buy your locomotion system and you are guaranteed some money
deft badge
It has some other major advantages.
deft badge
Works on all Vive, Rift and Gear VR
granite jacinth
๐ค
deft badge
It solves the multiplayer teleport cheating problem
granite jacinth
@mighty carbon Yeah, I had to take a break for finals...I was dying
clever sky
Well, I'm curious! Hit me up if you wanna share notes.
deft badge
As in, it's time correct
clever sky
But if it involves teleportation and avatars, that's already a thing ๐
deft badge
Are you the CAOTs dude?
clever sky
Yeah.
deft badge
Sweet, love your work.
clever sky
Cheers.
deft badge
... it's better than your methods so far.
clever sky
If it is, that's great.
deft badge
not so humble brag
deft badge
lolz
clever sky
shrug People have a wide range of preference.
granite jacinth
That's some confidence you have
clever sky
I've had people love my stuff and some hate it.
deft badge
I work in VR and UE4. I know what's available. Don't mean to sound so cocky, but I really think this is a thing.
granite jacinth
@deft badge Telling you. I got some ๐ฐ for you if it's legit
deft badge
I realize they're big claims.
deft badge
Well, I am, but it's slow ass going.
This was a dicovery during the dev process
Would be nice to capitalize on it, to fund full time dev on
game
Don't know if that's reaching too far
I'm busting to share it, but it's pretty easily copied.... once the cat is out of the bag.
odd garnet
make a game but make it open source
like if i buy it and have ue4 I should be able to look at it
or make a market place thing for it
frosty geode
Hey guys, I checked out the recent ISS app Oculus put out. There's a seriously awesome system built in for dealing with players pushing their VR heads into walls. Instead of blurring out the screen, or fading to black, this game actually pushes the character back in a way that creates a more realistic sense of collision, and keeps the player's head completely out of walls. When the player pushes their head against a surface, it seems like the pawn is sent in the opposite direction backward, which has the visual effect of zero movement, but in reality the player is moving their head forwards. When the player pulls back their head, they're further away from the wall than when they started. This ends up being very comfortable, and in my initial testing even works for an FPS style game with Earth-like gravity. The problem in Unreal is coming up with an efficient way to have the pawn deal with this collision of the rest of a static or perhaps dynamic environment. I think you need to have each static mesh have "generate overlap events" turned on in order to get the pawn to respond correctly. Is there a better way to implement this kind of system?
granite jacinth
@frosty geode Wall of text op. Paragraphs are your friend
Also, check out VR Expansion plugin
You will get your answers in there
mighty carbon
maybe you can move the world away from player when it hits walls ?
while it's cool, I think stereo 360 videos is where VR potential is.. Mono 360 is dated already ๐
real needle
@frosty geode The VRExpansionPlugin has that feature
full junco
@deft badge can't you... patent it or something like that? ๐
deft badge
๐
Go capitalism!
Its seems like an unsolved problem in a growing field. I would like to make some coin on it if possible.
full junco
well patents are something good. it means that some new awesome stuff is public and everyone can use it, just that people have to pay fees to the one who invented it. if you work for years on some game now and your locomotion is a million time better than any existing stuff that would mean every game thats released now woudl have an unessassary bad system. better if everyone can use your great stuff right away and just pay fees to you ๐
deft badge
People have written books about what I don't know about patents
full junco
well if you think your stuff is so much better than any existing stuff then you will surely pay some lawyers or whatever to tell you everything about it
full junco
anyone knows of a good way to capture every single frame that's sent to the HMD?
I only want to have this for debugging
hard light
it's probably doable, but I'm not sure you want to do that
full junco
just screen capturing the steamvr display mirror does not work because I only have 60 hz monitors, but I need to capture the 90 fps
hard light
for what purpose?
full junco
for debugging why sometimes one frame flickers
its hard to see what exactly is wrong with that one frame while only seeing it for 11 ms
deft badge
We had that here. Are you using streaming levels?
full junco
I am not using streaming levels
deft badge
Are you opening levels? Or is it all on one map
hard light
you need to be aware that raw capture of SteamVR footage is going to come in at nearly a gigabyte of data per second
full junco
it flickers because of my code, its not UE4 stuff
I just need to know what my code is doing wrong
hard light
you need to be able to write to disk fast enough, and have enough free space to store it
full junco
it can be low res
deft badge
What about a matinee video output
full junco
that would capture UE4, not whats sent to the HMD
hard light
if it's lower resolution then you're not capturing what's sent to the HMD
deft badge
SteamVR plugin?
full junco
@deft badge yes
@hard light well that steamvr display mirror is also lower res than whats sent to the HMD
hard light
yes, because it is a mirror, and you've already said that capturing the mirror does not work
(it's not the same rendered output, it's rendered twice)
deft badge
Sounds like you'll have to hack away at the steamvr plugin. There must be examples in engine of where they save a texture to disk every frame.
full junco
I mean, I would be fine with only getting what the mirror sees, just at full 90 fps
it doesnt need to be exactly whats sent to the HMD. just needs to be whats sent to steamvr
hard light
in which case that would likely be possible with some quick tampering in the source code
also, there's no difference between 'what is sent to the HMD' and 'what is sent to SteamVR'
full junco
there is
distortion is applied by steamvr
UE4 sents an undistorted frame to steamvr
hard light
I see what you mean, I guess
full junco
@deft badge I wish there would be examples for that, but I'm not sure if UE4 ever has to save a RT to disk every frame
deft badge
Is that not what matinee does with its video output?
full junco
I dont know, have never used that
deft badge
You may even be able to get 90 fps output
Not sure
The slider says you can get 200 fps if you so desire
full junco
hm well thanks, I guess I have to search in UE4s code then to see how its done
deft badge
I'm saying that you may not need to
Just add a matinee cinematic, and click the movie button
full junco
that would capture UE4 stuff, not the final thing thats sent to SteamVR
deft badge
You could find out in about 300 seconds or so
fresh laurel
full junco
@deft badge there is no regular reason why matinee should ever capture steamvr stuff, so it won't do it
it captures what a camera sees as far as I know
deft badge
Are you seeing the flicker only in the headset?
full junco
yes
I dont see it in the windows UE4 shows I mean
I also see it in the steamvr display mirror
deft badge
Yeah strange John. Looks like it time to hack away at the plugin
full junco
it has to do with my own code, I have ported the oculus adaptive pixel density stuff to steamvr so I'm modifying whats rendered and how its sent to the HMD
and somewhere there I did something wrong that causes it to send one wrong frame
the part of the RT thats displayed on the headset is too big or too small the frame after the pixel density was modified, but printing out all the values of RT sizes and UVs shows me that everything is correct
alpine torrent
would you guys do this? with UE? https://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/Taste-of-Premier/ToP1715
digital marlin
Nothing says credible like a star trek costume.
alpine torrent
@digital marlin just a example as you have mixed reality setup
eternal inlet
@John_Alcatraz#2916 do u use stereo layers in your game? I noticed they dont get output to the preview, only the hmd and thus also the mirror
tawdry dragon
Anyone here that have any idea how the made the scoreboard UI that only shows on the Oculus Mirror inside Robo Recall?
its refered to as SpectatorUI inside the RoboRecall project it self
wicked oak
i could really use that too
wicked oak
it sure is clunky
but twice the sales as pc vr
and no competition for DWVR ๐
the ps4 is not that underpowered
im running DWVR at same quality and fps as PC on a Pro
its the tracking
wich is terrible
mighty carbon
I didn't mean that hardware being clunky was a well said thing. I meant about shovelware and throwing cans in VR sort of thing.
or rollercoasters
sharp swan
I saw the "worlds first 4k HMD" the other day. Has no positional tracking. It may as well be a 0.4k HMd for all it's worth :p
sharp swan
no its not. vertical filming is a crime
mighty carbon
lol, like 5 fps ?!
raven halo
@sharp swan lol!!
clever sky
@mighty carbon Chicken and egg problem for the industry writ large. Gamers want great games. Great games on VR needs people to buy them.
If you're a developer, how much can you afford to sell based on uncertainty?
How much investors afford to invest based on uncertainty?
Some bigger companies are taking big bets.
And for the rest... it's just going to take time to ratchet up.
Especially when the drawbacks of VR are so easy to see in photos and videos, while the strengths of VR can really only be enjoyed using it in person.
mighty carbon
Oculus funds development of interesting games and projects
Can also make a games with IAP or smaller chunks of games that are designed to be extended with DLCs or mission packs and whatnot.
There is a potential for small teams to make money making decent games. Just everyone is after quick buck or self-promo for other purposes
obviously that doesn't work well as we can see
tawdry dragon
well, its also about brand build up. If you go for a quick project like a small experience instead of a large game, then you can get your name out there and start building a fan base
mighty carbon
except that if it's a gimmick and you aren't the first, you won't be remembered
tawdry dragon
which also makes your marketing strategy cheaper because you already have a communications channel
True - you need to innovate no doubt. Its two very different strategies
mighty carbon
well, you don't need to innovate
you can make conventional game executed well and succeed
tawdry dragon
but games do have large expenses and long development times
mighty carbon
it's all about story, settings and how well you apply existing mechanics to it
yes, they do.. But, VR folks are dedicated and hungry for good content
If someone releases early access game for Gear VR I'd like to play and keep playing in a long run, I will buy it.
(Gear VR is a bad example because there is no core/hardcore gamers on it; but it would work better for Rift)
it's obvious that Robo Recall like quality and variety isn't achievable by 1-man team.
But there are a ton of examples on PC where stylized consistent art style in indie games was as strong as AAA quality assets
tawdry dragon
But will games like Robo Recall actually inflate the expectations of how future VR games should be done - so in the end, smaller more focused indie games/experiences would be seen as "bad" because they cannot compete with the polish/release timeframes of larger studios
mighty carbon
why can't they? They do on PC and consoles
it's about atmosphere, immersion.. If you just throw assets from all over the place into your game and call it a day - yeah, that won't work
tawdry dragon
yeah, but VR is not a market that is divided between casual and hardcore. Most of the market is hardcore because they are the only people who are willing to invest into the ecosystems
sharp swan
with more gameplay elements arising, one day Robo Recall will be seen as the basic gameplay it is (as it really only has 3 points of gameplay with shoot, melee and teleport)
mighty carbon
On PC, I only play AAA games. Not because of the looks, but because indies don't make games I like to play. If it was looking like one of those low-poly packs, but had great atmosphere, story, etc. - I'd buy it and play it. Same goes for me for VR. Yes, AAA visuals will always be more attractive than indie art. But it's the story/characters and how it's hooked up to the gameplay that will make me buy any indie game, where it's VR or PC.
cobalt relic
Indies will always have strengths of their own. Mostly the basic one is that they can try new stuff
You're never going to have anything really groundbreaking in AAA because that'd be a risk, and you don't gamble $500M on risky things
AAA have the strength of giant projects with high polish
mighty carbon
I don't care for groundbreaking. As a matter of fact, as a gamer, I don't like all that weird shit indies make.
"experimental gameplay".. pffff... I don't have time for this (nor it doesn't do anything for me). I want to play what I enjoy.
Give me an FPS, with decent story and environments and you can take my money
cobalt relic
Sure, that's what everyone likes
mighty carbon
even if it looks like Minecraft
cobalt relic
The point is, indies can do stuff that isn't a military shooter in space
mighty carbon
well, they can, and that's why on VR we'll have this situation
like, I work in the office all day, every day. WTF would I want to play Office sim in VR?!
tired tree
HAVE you played office sim?
tawdry dragon
Or EuroTruck Simulator ๐ Appearently that is big in germany
cobalt relic
Pretty sure no one is going to argue that you actually do like Office Sim, @mighty carbon
mighty carbon
I don't even want to play it - I want to land on some unknown planet after work and blast aliens (or just explore that planet if it has no aliens with guns)
I want to do in games (VR or not) what I can't do in real life
cobalt relic
The indie games i've played the most were Minecraft, Kerbal Space program and Besiege. i'm pretty sure none of those would ever exist as AAA
Doesn't stop me from playing BOTW, Destiny and Doom too
mighty carbon
sounds like you have a lot of free time on your hands ๐
cobalt relic
Well that's 6 games in like 3 years, too, so there's that ๐
mighty carbon
I stopped playing Diablo 3 because of grind. Grind is what I absolutely dislike in games.
I think I only played 2 games last year.
cobalt relic
Anyway, what I'm saying is, indies will always have a chance, whether it's in VR or not. Indies that try to do AAA stuff will always fail, obviously
But there is value to new stuff
mighty carbon
we are talking about profitability and mass market
right now people don't care for VR because there is nothing to play
price point is more or less affordable now
cobalt relic
Maybe people just don't care about VR
mighty carbon
they don't until they try it ๐
and for some reason some people refuse to try it :/
(like, as if they are afraid they are gonna like it)
cobalt relic
I know I only follow VR stuff because it might be the only market one day, but i'm definitely not interested as a gamer
So :/
tired tree
are you afraid you would like office sim?
or do you just assume its a boring gimmick game?
cobalt relic
I think the core VR audience is going to be enthusiastic for it, but most VR devs overestimate the reach the tech will have. Think Luckey saying it will replace regular screens.
Also VR has everything to prove yet in terms of gameplay, imho. People are not going to buy VR headsets to play the same shooter games.
cobalt relic
Just like no one bought PC games on early mobile marketplaces
mighty carbon
Office sim IS a boring gimmick game
real needle
might as well buy 8 screens
mighty carbon
my gaming time would be better spent playing Dead and Buried or Robo Recall
tired tree
ok Motorsep, well to a bunch of people VR IS a boring gimmick
I think you actually udnerstand where they are coming from if you think about it
mighty carbon
I actually tried VR and there are only few things on Gear VR that I found worth my time. So, no, VR is not a gimmick but stuff like Office Sim is.
cobalt relic
Pretty sure we all tried VR here
mighty carbon
For me personally Minecraft is boring crap. Sure it made billions and a ton of people got hooked to it, but for me it's booooring junk.
(as most of survival open world games on the market)
cobalt relic
Your point being ?
tired tree
mmmmm, the RoboRecall spectator UI is directly drawing to the oculus mirror window render target
they added a new oculus function library entry that returns the render target for the mirror window in their engine build
mighty carbon
the point is that hardware and what it can offer is not a gimmick. So saying "Office Sim is gimmick thus VR is too" is the same as saying "Minecraft is gimmick so PC gaming is too", which is nonsense. One can love the tech and platform and absolutely hate some games,.
tired tree
of course hardware can be a gimmick
cobalt relic
Sating that VR is a gimmick because of one game is nonsense, sure
tired tree
more so to people that tried previous iterations of it
cobalt relic
We can definitely say that both are a gimmick though
mighty carbon
don't get all butthurt @tired tree because I say Office Sim is a boring gimmick, unless you were one of the devs ๐
tired tree
i'm saying that you are acting just like the people you "can't understand"
i haven't tried office sim myself
cobalt relic
Different people want different stuff. I have no idea how one can find minecraft boring, @mighty carbon has no idea how one can find VR to be a gimmick. That's life
People said the Wii was a gimmick, too, it still sold 100M
Maybe VR will do the same
mighty carbon
you are missing the point. People who have not tried VR at all think it's a gimmick because they have not experienced the tech. It applies to any tech. I haven't played consoles and I thought it was junk. Then I tried Killzone 3 on PS3 and I was blown away (although hated gamepad aiming).
cobalt relic
There are also people who have tried VR and think it's a gimmick, like me ๐
Well not a gimmick, but definitely not something i'd pay for
mighty carbon
When people try it, they "get" it. However, in order to convince them to buy into it, they need to see stuff they would definitely play. I thought VR was meh. I tried it, I got Gear VR for development, because I absolutely don't like what the market has to offer in terms of games on it. Same goes for Rift / Vive - I didn't want to buy into it until I saw Arktika.1, Lone Echo and Robo Recall.
Same goes for other people - they don't find stuff like Office Sim worth their time and thus until VR offers more substance (real games), they will not invest into it
Going back in time, until I played Wolf 3D I thought PC gaming was junk
cobalt relic
And people thought mobile gaming was junk before Angry Birds, too
mighty carbon
but PC, as a tech, never seemed junk / gimmick
I still think mobile gaming is junk ๐
cobalt relic
PC started out as a professional tool for wealthy engineers
And accountants etc
VR started out as a new way to experience games
There is a reason it's often compared to 3D movies
mighty carbon
I see VR as gaming, entertainment and educational platform
speaking of movies, I wonder how it would feel to watch a movie in VR on a big screen, but with ambisonic sound
cobalt relic
Some people see VR as an industrial tool, too
mighty carbon
they sure do
cobalt relic
And imho it's probably going to be its most successful field in the long run
spiral zephyr
when it all converges into easily wearable AR, it'll take over the world like smartphones did
5-10 yrs ๐
mighty carbon
like I said many times before, I don't want to play non-VR games any longer. They don't feel immersive.
sharp swan
as soon as they make the AR app that removes women's clothes on the fly, it will take off :p
mighty carbon
do you own any VR (cardboard doesn't count), @cobalt relic ?
cobalt relic
I don't own any, like I said I'm not interested at all as a gamer. I'm interested in the tech aspects of it, and as a game dev that might have to follow up if it ends up being big
mighty carbon
ha, so what are we talking about here ?!
tired tree
oh man, when did they make the OpenVR system struct publicly accessible....I can throw out hundreds of lines of code
mighty carbon
Most people play games to escape reality. The same people will enjoy VR, where it's gaming or simply getting out of this world.
cobalt relic
We're talking about how people have different needs and ways of playing @mighty carbon
sharp swan
happens all the time to me. I fix a missing feature or issue, then after hours of work, it gets fixed/added
mighty carbon
There are a ton of people who don't play games at all. Those people will not use VR for gaming for sure.
But there are even more people who will use VR for entertainment
sharp swan
I've had VR for two years now and all i use it for is to look cool in conversations. It's like my gamepad. Even though I am at my pc all the time, it only comes into play in certain scenarios
mighty carbon
It's human nature to explore and fantasize - VR is a perfect outlet to fulfill that. Just needs content and not gimmicky stuff like Office Sim. I want to escape my real office and I definitely don't want to go into another, virtual, office.
cobalt relic
I know I play videogames the same way I watch movies, using a videoprojector on a giant empty wall. I like immersion. I definitely don't want full immersion though, because my gf could be drawing something besides me, or because i'm cooking in the meantime, or because... etc.
What i'm saying @mighty carbon is that by dismissing games like Office Sim, you might be dismissing the entire platform
sharp swan
@mighty carbon I spent almost 10 years locked in a room learning my trade. Then I played Silent Hill 4. Amazing game but I couldn't complete it as it's about you being stuck in a room.
cobalt relic
Just look at what happened on mobile - AAA tried to push the same shit they were doing, only with mobile controls
You know any traditional console AAA dev that does mobile too today ?
mighty carbon
I still enjoy AAA games, a lot. Hate mobile as much as I always hated it.
cobalt relic
They were wiped out by people who actually understood the platform
The same thing will probably happen to VR
sharp swan
@cobalt relic : Epic :p
mighty carbon
If AAA makes Doom every few years, with new demons and new maps and deeper story, I will be playing it and not going to complain
cobalt relic
What i'm saying is don't dismiss what you dislike as something that drags the platform down because it might be what saves it
mighty carbon
I see people who complain a lot about AAA games play a way too many games every damn day.
cobalt relic
Just like Angry Birds made mobile gaming relevant
mighty carbon
I don't think into like you do - I play because I just want to fulfill my desires.
I don't think "oh, I need to diversify" or "this game could save gaming as whole"... Nonsense in my book. I just play a bit, and go back to my real life.
and apparently the world is full of people like me and that's why AAA will remain the same
cobalt relic
Yeah, but watch out when saying VR "needs content and not gimmicky stuff like Office Sim", because VR could actually be just Office Sim clones 10 years down the road
mighty carbon
(which is a good thing)
cobalt relic
AAA on mobile is wildly different than AAA on PC or console
It will be different in VR too
mighty carbon
it could be, and it will die if it has clones of Office Sim
cobalt relic
No one knows that
mighty carbon
mobile is different
mobile is casual
VR is definitely not
VR is more like PC gaming
cobalt relic
VR PC gaming is a super small market that will stay a small market because it's a subset of PC
mighty carbon
maybe one day VR will be in a pair of light shades and then it will be casual and then I will still only play AAA games or indie games that can scratch my itch.
cobalt relic
Well let's not argue all day there
mighty carbon
then that's where I belong, if they make games that satisfy my needs ๐
the argument that is every gaming platform, except mobile, was driven by AAA games
cobalt relic
All gaming platforms were driven by indies first