I don't think forward is likely to look great with that scene because it doesn't have alpha-to-coverage yet
#virtual-reality
pearl tangle
more just out of curiosity to see what its like really
pearl tangle
but yeah the DOF stuff doesn't seem to make any change on here in the post process since it's the camera thats introducing that
yeah its moving around a bit
sturdy coral
turning on accurate velocities from vertex deformation may help with the blurring
pearl tangle
that definitely doesn't help. but the static tree has the same issue
where would i find that?
sturdy coral
I think it is project wide and per material
pearl tangle
ah found it
sturdy coral
try tweaking r.temporalaasamples lower and see how it responds
the lower you go the more you will see some of that noise creep in
pearl tangle
will give that 1 a shot too
going to take a while to get back through the shaders now after changing that on 2 projects
pretty much if i just rendered out screenshots from each scene instead of it trying to do moving stuff I would be fine. It only introduces that problem by trying to optimize performance which I dont actually want
full junco
will less TAA samples improve performance?
pearl tangle
yeah it will
i upped it from 8 - 32 but didn't notice any change in anything so will see if dropping it to 2 or 4 makes a difference
full junco
I think I played around with the sample count but I didnt see a difference in how long TAA takes
it was always ~0.5 ms per eye
pearl tangle
i want the worst performance possible and best quality. All I am trying to do is render out a video hah
doesn't seem to have made any change yet
First frame
not really sure if it improved the grass yet
yeah doesn't look like it has solved anything
lets see what MSAA does to the scene
full junco
can't you just use a super high screen percentage and no AA at all?
full junco
well your problem is just the quality of the blur, right?
pearl tangle
thats all from a static camera, no movement or anything and everything thats not in focus with FXAA or no AA is insanely blurry
like dancing around dots on the screen pretty much
full junco
yeah the blur is just designed for good performance
the blur relies on TAA for looking good, and that means the blur uses data from the last few frames, which will create ghosting if stuff moves
and without TAA the blur will look noisy
pearl tangle
yeah 4.15 has a cinematic quality mode, maybe that will give me some kind of benefit to it?
it's odd that the noise is moving around on a static frame though isn't it?
full junco
no, it isn't
its same for SSAO
it always takes random positions so that on average it uses every pixel
try that cinemativ mode, that will probably look better
pearl tangle
migrating the map over now to a 4.15 to see what that does for me
will test out what MSAA looks like with it too
im surprised more people haven't been running into this problem with the blurring. a couple of things on answerhub but nothing much really
i guess not too many people have been using the cinema camera for stuff yet
full junco
I have no idea what the cinema camera even is
pearl tangle
it's the grey fancier looking camera they added in back in 4.13 along with all the sequencer updates
gives you a proper realistic camera to control the lenses and everything plus you can also track objects with it. they added in the dolly track and boom crane at the same time to do proper camera stuff
full junco
ok, I don't really see how that camera is used in VR though?
pearl tangle
it's not. im rendering out flat videos from scenes that were built for VR
ah looks like there is actually a bunch of people on the UDN with the problem, I hadn't searched in there yet hah
full junco
ah
pearl tangle
damn doesn't look like it's going to be an easily fixable thing
ah somebody has done an SMAA branch though too
full junco
I tried that branch a while ago, I didnt like it
also, it wouldnt help you, your problem is that you need TAA
full junco
official or your guess?
sturdy coral
full junco
well lets hope Vega will be 10% better and 30% cheaper 😄
sturdy coral
thinking about getting one, wonder what I would get for my 980ti now..
would like a whole new build with ryzen too..
pearl tangle
I dont need TAA I just need something that does blur without messing everything up
full junco
that blur will only work well with TAA
many features in UE4 are designed to only be used with TAA unfortunately
pearl tangle
seems like they have actually modified the cinema camera for 4.15 so that its using lens specific features instead of post process 1s to handle the blue and whatnot so AA settings are completely removed from there now
full junco
I only know that in 4.15 the AA settings were removed from the post process settings
full junco
so now AA can only be set in project settings
pearl tangle
yeah nothing seems to have improved my renders so far unfortunately
il try killing the grass movement and see if that gets me anything better
zinc violet
@full junco they were removed in 4.14 already
full junco
ah, ok
zinc violet
because MSAA is not PP effect
and I can see it being confusing keeping different AA settings on different places
full junco
yes I get the reasoning for it
pearl tangle
yeah and then especially when you have blend effects between the post process things it doesn't quite blend between the AA
sturdy coral
Another option is render your scene at 480fps or so and then combine frames in post
Then you get something similar to TAA without any ghosting
You would need to slightly jitter the camera for static shots to get AA on the edges
pearl tangle
i might give that a go at this stage
I still need to run TXAA regardless though because the blur just gets destroyed without it
tried throwing a flat object behind it to see if it was the grass doing it all. seems to have been a slight benefit but not a whole lot
pearl tangle
TXAA - 120fps, 4k render with 2* upsampling
I even tried moving the scene elements around to give it a solid background for as much as possible
real needle
Hi. I again have a question about VR Replication. I managed to replicate the current position from the client to the server, both are HMDLocomotionPawns. So when the client moves, then the HMD model and the controllers can be seen by the server, which is fine. But the client is not able to see the server's movement. The client only sees the HMD model pinned to the ground at the location the server recently teleported to. Can you give me any advice on how to fix that?
https://gyazo.com/e7c6a8be9ddac64b65f885bc6eb0290b This is how I set it up
pearl tangle
@sturdy coral and @full junco I rendered out at 480 fps at 8k and it's mostly gone. But bringing that back down to 30fps has introduced it's own issues now hah
digital marlin
good god @pearl tangle
pearl tangle
yeah its a lot of screwing around thats for sure
im spitting out 1 at the 480fps to then speed up afterwards to see if that gets rid of those artefacts and then I can actually start on fixing the things up in the different scenes hah
all this for a 30 second trailer...
wicked oak
why dont you just go and render at 4k resolution?
pearl tangle
i rendered at 8k
8k 480fps
and seems those odd weird spots are actually coming straight out of unreal
found 1 of the problem frames
cobalt relic
@pearl tangle For what it's worth, I reverted the AA quality to <= 3 in UE4
Since 4.15, r.PostProcessAAQuality == 4 means every few frames, there is a huge artifact
Some kind of big sharpening filter
Not sure what you're doing, just leaving that out since it bugged me a bit
pearl tangle
yeah that could be it. Its only happening at the start of it though with that weird jumpy bit where that frame was totally destroyed but its about 10 randomy frames out of 1000
pearl tangle
I am running this on 4.13 though btw
pearl tangle
odd. hopefully they fix that up then
it is interesting watching things at 480fps since its like 16* slow mo hah
mighty carbon
:)
I am sure those top end GPUs are not for an average consumer
I can see @pearl tangle getting one or two for his business
cobalt relic
I started building computers when the most highest of the high end was like, 200/300$
I have no idea how nVidia can sell $700 GPUs
Nor who buys them
pearl tangle
I was just looking at Titan X the other day and those are just 1gb less memory and $1200 cheaper
It was $1250 SGD when I was getting the current 1080s
$3000 SGD for titan
It was $1250 SGD when I was getting the current 1080s
mighty carbon
"AMD also added support for a forward rendering path with Unreal Engine 4" with "forward rendering" linked to Oculus dev blog about Ouclus creating forward rendering for UE4 back in the days
So, did AMD just add support into drivers or what ?
also, does anyone know if MS will make any announcements for Project Scorpio and their VR HMDs ?
pearl tangle
microsoft opened up their vr stuff to everybody. will likely be some cross platform stuff going on with them
real needle
Is here someone who can teach me how to replicate vr pawns?
tired tree
I mean, are you trying to replicate movement, or just the HMD / controllers at this time?
real needle
location and rotation
mighty carbon
hype train - Oculus is going to announce something today
mighty carbon
that's a killer news!!!!
lol, that tweet was deleted o.O
oh well, it's still true https://www.oculus.com/rift/
tired tree
Yeah that is good news
mighty carbon
the reason they removed tweet was due to stupid comments
"I spent a lot of money on Rift, I want the different back" and so on
stupid people
wicked oak
robo recall is now live
mighty carbon
Ohh.. well, can you play it and tell us if it's awesome or not so much ?
wicked oak
robo recall open source
wicked oak
no
tired tree
ouch
raven halo
@wicked oak same here
neon egret
Is there any way to play that without having to buy the controllers
neon egret
I want my ReVive to work with it
wicked oak
im downloading the mod sdk
tired tree
yeah install the modding tools
wicked oak
they say its open source
i want to see how they do several things
probably steal the fuck out of some small details for my game XD
depends
tired tree
time to add multiplayer and free movement >.<
wicked oak
i want to see how they do some things
tired tree
I mean, the weapon system isn't interactive though
raven halo
where are you getting it from exactly?
tired tree
launcher
tired tree
like all other modding tools
tired tree
their UI has aliasing still, but it looks decently clean
might help people with UMG problems
neon egret
So you assume the ModTools give us the whole game?
neon egret
But only test
tired tree
don't know how they are releasing full source
wicked oak
i also want to see the configuration they use
tired tree
yeah their config settings will be interesting
they have a decent amount of geometry on display
raven halo
they have very cool LODs
saw a talk somewhere, probably a twitch stream, where they were baking highres buildings to lower res mesh
all within the editor
wicked oak
HLOD
raven halo
how do I get my hands on a microsoft vr dev kit? D:
tired tree
I wonder how microsoft plans to sell that headset to anyone not doing industrial uses if it is inside out tracking without motion controllers.
raven halo
wait, it has inside out tracking?
i thought it would just have rotational tracking
it will probably be gearvr-type experiences
tidal crater
If you want to try the latest Unreal VR mode with mesh editor. You can get the latest code here: https://github.com/EpicGames/UnrealEngine/tree/dev-geometry
Message me if you have issues getting it running.
raven halo
agreed
wintry escarp
rift/touch got a $100 price cut I see
raven halo
vive controllers are so 2016
mighty carbon
yeh
wintry escarp
that will be back to 1070 cards needed?
mighty carbon
I assume higher res requires more powerful GPU
Oculus pushes my buttons.. I didn't plan of spending money on Rift any time soon 😛
feral swan
please vive drop prices and save me from fb
raven halo
@wicked oak so those of us with engineering samples of touch controllers dont count as "touch users" to Oculus Home? Is that why I'm not seeing Robo Recall as free?
mighty carbon
I don't even want to play regular PC game any longer 😦
curse you virtual reality 🙀
wicked oak
robo recall just unlocked for me, a dev
mighty carbon
see, and you were worried
I wish there was a way to hook up 1060 to my wife's laptop (it's i5 with 8Gb of RAM, SSD and crappy Intel GPU)
tawdry dragon
motorsep, there is external GPUs for the Mac, maybe you can buy one for a PC? 😛
wicked oak
robo recall is awesome
mighty carbon
well, Mac has Thunderbolt port, doesn't it ? I don't think USB-C is enough for external GPU
@wicked oak that good eh?
neon egret
So anyone checked the mod tools yet?
wicked oak
really fucking good
zinc violet
@wintry escarp did the rift/touch really get 100 price cut? like, can you buy them separately cheaper? 😛
I got impression they just bundled them with the same price and sold without xbox controller
it's probably even cheaper for oculus to do it that way + people want the motion controllers anyway
mighty carbon
well, we have roughly 2 years before new Rift rolls out
it's like $25 per month for current Rift + Touch (assuming you already have VR PC). I think it worth it
wicked oak
not really. Price might be within 100 dollars
but people dont have gaming pcs
but they do have PS4s
mighty carbon
he stated "assuming you don't have either"
like you have crappy old laptop and PS3 or XB1 and you want to get into VR. Instead of PS4 + PSVR you can get PC + Rift + Touch as it's comparable price wise now.
cobalt relic
Sure
wicked oak
people is retarded
finding a VR ready pc is HARD
and PS4 is 300 dollars
a VR ready pc starts at 600 for the worst tier ones
people like simplicity
cobalt relic
Millions of people already have a PS4
And hate playing on PC
That's not retarded
I mean, i'm a developer, I have a high end gaming PC, but I definitely buy cross-platforms titles on PS4
The only exceptions are simulations, or modding-oriented games, etc
wicked oak
if oculus can lower the price of the rift like that, shows that sony is getting mad amount of profit per psvr sold
its a way cheaper piece of tech
mighty carbon
PS4 is shit. PS4Pro is ~$500
mighty carbon
playing in VR with PS Move is masochism
mighty carbon
PC gaming crowd is much larger than PS4 gaming crowd
(the difference is PC gaming crowd needs to upgrade for VR, PS4 - doesn't )
the only way to get PS4 users going PC is to provide super bad ass titles exclusive to Oculus platform (or to PC in general)
wicked oak
50 million ps4s on the wild
nowhere near there the amount of pcs high enough to play VR
cobalt relic
PS4 is 60M, Steam is 125M, most of them free users playing DotA
And there is no way PS4 gamers go to PC for VR
Some of them, sure
But people play on PC or on PS4 for a reason
wicked oak
mostly money and simplicity for the console sides
getting a proper PC is just hard for the average consumer
you cant just go into a store and pick the blue box with PS4 labeled on it
cobalt relic
I know I hate playing on PC and that's got nothing to do with money or performance
wicked oak
why,lol?
cobalt relic
Shitty overall experience
wicked oak
at higher fps and resolution than consoles?
wicked oak
but why
you can use a controller on PC
you can use steam big picture if you want a big hud
plus all games are 25% cheaper, minimum
cobalt relic
Because every PC game needs half an hour of setup before it works at the best quality & performance and uses all the buttons on your mouse. Because you're always going to have some bug or glitch. Because controller support works on one game out of three. Because... etc.
I'm not hating on PC, I've played for years on that
cobalt relic
But the last games I bought (Witcher 3, Dishonored2) that were also on PC ? No way in hell I buy those on PC.
mighty carbon
(and now I am certain that Touch or wands beat hell out of PS Move )
wicked oak
xbox gamepad runs without a issue on pc
setup takes LESS than on console
witcher 3 runs at 20 fps on some places, i run it at 60 fps all the time
cobalt relic
What setup ?
wicked oak
allways installs a huge ass day one patch or similar
and installs itself into the console
pc just downlods the last version directly
and doesnt install
what was the last time you did pc gaming, 2007?
mighty carbon
If PSVR gets Touch-like contollers (ergonomic and responsive) and 360 deg. setup, then maybe I say consoles are as good as PC
cobalt relic
Lol, wtf
wicked oak
you click the buy button in steam, click download, and it does everything, not even a install setup window
cobalt relic
Setup = poking through those 14 menus to get the right settings
wicked oak
most games set up automatic for hardware
cobalt relic
Resolution, quality, mouse, key bindings
wicked oak
and Nvidia software does it automatically in the case the game doesnt
cobalt relic
Most games definitely don't
wicked oak
key bindings are default, why would you change them?
cobalt relic
Oh, the nvidia software that requires a login / password on top of Steam and WIndows ?
wicked oak
dont you prefer playing with a gamepad, wich is automatic in 99% of games?
cobalt relic
That piece of shit ?
Gamepad is nothing near automatic in 99% of PC games
Listen i'm not going to argue, especially on a developer channel
wicked oak
i dont remember the last time i had to setup anything gamepad related
cobalt relic
Just understand that people happen to enjoy the console experience
If you can't bring yourself to understand, look at the market
mighty carbon
just like people love PCs
cobalt relic
Yeah, that too
I mean I run a watercooled high end PC rig so I understand that
Just saying, be open to both perspectives
mighty carbon
narrow minded people stick with consoles, they always have stuck by them
mighty carbon
people who want better experience switch back and forth
cobalt relic
Name calling ? Really ?
mighty carbon
did I point finger at you? No
mighty carbon
but someone who saw Crysis back in the days and sai d"meh, I am good with my PS2" (or whatever was in back then) I consider that
cobalt relic
Basically you have different platforms that have different business models and technology models, so obviously different people use them
mighty carbon
same goes for VR - once there are VR games / experiences on PC that are that awesome, and console folks shrug it off just because it's PC (if money isn't an issue), that's plain narrow minded attitude
wicked oak
but getting witcher 3 on consle when your pc is strong looks so spectacularly stupid to me
i mean, just plug the xbox gamepad
and it everything just works
mighty carbon
+1
wicked oak
but at 1080p wich consoles cant do
thats why i really dont get it, those "but i prefer consoles" tend to come from people who have a trash pc and cant game on it anyway
eternal inlet
i read RoboRecall was available for download now, anyone know where?
cobalt relic
Why is it stupid if I just want to play in my couch, on a 100" home cinema, with a nice controller, without having to login into Windows, Steam, nVidia and so on, before spending half an hour setting up my resolution ?
Why do you resort to name calling ?
I mean I really don't get that hate
Which also happens from console players
wicked oak
@eternal inlet on oculus launcher
cobalt relic
But wtf would you be so aggressive
eternal inlet
ah
mighty carbon
VR on a couch? WTH?!
eternal inlet
ty
wicked oak
only need to login on Steam, nothing more. Resolution set to 1080 by default
everything on High
done
neon egret
Did we skip an engine version
wicked oak
if it runs bad, click on the "middle" settings button
mighty carbon
yah, you can play PC games on a couch
wicked oak
i use a Steam link when i want to do that
my ps4 only exists for psvr games and exclusives like bloodborne
and holy shit, bloodborne framerates make me insane
other games like Destiny are 30 fps but are ok, becouse its solid
bloodborne is a stutter fest
cobalt relic
I'm done here, but the sheer disdain is astonishing
I mean I wish we were past that kind of bullshit
The PS4 is a PC with a nice interface and decent power/price point and that's it, I can't understand why you'd criticize someone for enjoy that more than a PC
Do your own choice and leave people alone
wicked oak
at least becouse i think you are missing out hard
mighty carbon
why would you backup inferior VR platform ? (I mean, I know, for money, but it's equally important to move PC VR forward somehow. Otherwise it will die and PSVR will die with PS4Pro too and we won't have VR at all)
cobalt relic
@wicked oak I've got like 1000$ worth of games in Steam so I'm hardly missing out
mighty carbon
I am talking from VR developer / gamer perspective... PC is superior to PS4, that's not even an argument, when it comes to VR
cobalt relic
Well I'd rather play on PSVR if you don't mind
I don't really care if PC is "superior"
mighty carbon
PSVR with what? PS Move and crappy tracking and front facing experience only ?
cobalt relic
sigh
mighty carbon
Somehow I am not surprised
cobalt relic
At the end of the day the market will decide
And we'll keep seing whiny PC gamers crying about why Destiny isn't coming to PC etc
mighty carbon
I am just trying to understand why people choose lazy VR over true immersive VR (if the cost isn't an issue)
cobalt relic
For the same reason I have no interest in buying a sports car : I don't need it, I'd rather use a cheaper, easier, simpler and way shittier car that's got good support
Same reason i'd rather have a PS4 that boots to my last game session in one button press
Etc
Not everyone is after the shiniest latest version of the best thing
mighty carbon
odd, but ok
cobalt relic
Take a look at Apple buyers to see the same reasoning
mighty carbon
I don't buy sports car because it's expensive and impractical, but I'd rather get normal mid range vehicle than cheap ass Chevy that will fall apart in a few years
Apple buyers are from another world 😛
but even they switch to Galaxy for Gear VR
cobalt relic
Apple buyers are from another world, but they kind of have a point too
mighty carbon
(not really switch, they use their iPhone as phone and use Galaxy for VR)
actually Apple buyers have opposite point of view that yours - they buy it because it's a status thing. Not because it's an awesome product.
cobalt relic
Well, I thought that too
before
Some probably do, but lots of them just enjoy it more
I work with plenty of people who're very very good at tech & business, like really good engineers
And you'll see some with all Apple hardware, and they know exactly why they're buying it
Anyway
Back to VR
mighty carbon
That game alone made me want to get Rift 😃
btw, Robo Recall doesn't list hardware requirements
nm, it does
odd, it's $29.99, but free with Touch and Touch is required. Why would anyone buy it without having Touch ?!
glossy agate
I guess due to the price drop oculus is sending touch buyers $50 store credit via email. May only be people who registered in the last 30 days though.
mighty carbon
heh, so you can't play with Vive after all ?
I'd hate to spend $30 and then discover I can't play 😛
glossy agate
Looks like he was trying to just play in the modding toolkit. Don't know if anyone has tried ReVive with success yet
neon egret
Revive would work I guess
At least might work
But I can't use it without having the Game :P
glossy agate
Yeah, not worth buying just to test, unless they would let you refund if it doesn't work
feral swan
"I would project that in six years or so, almost all of our designers will spend almost all of their time immersed in the VR editing environment,"- Sweeney http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/292573/For_Tim_Sweeney_advancing_Epic_means_racing_into_AR_and_VR.php
wicked oak
well, in 6 years we will have 4k high fov confortable wireless VR
at the very least
and polished vr editor
feral swan
ya he says that in the article that the hardware needs about 2 generation of changes to realize his vision
wicked oak
we need the high res + wireless
with that one, it will be much more usable
and this one is actually a case that is good for VR gloves
as you could do gestures to do tools
neon egret
6 Years hm
Prices in 6 years for 4k, wireless will pr obably still be around 1k
Still too high for a lot of people
But maybe the current generation is at a way lower price by then
neon egret
The rift + touch comes with how many sensors?
sturdy coral
I wonder if wireless is going to be doable acceptably on the LG one
wicked oak
2
prime iris
roborecall "we’re proud to make all the assets and source code for Robo Recall available to everyone"
wicked oak
it actually is
neon egret
You need 3 for roomscale rgiht?
prime iris
So we can port it to he vive?
neon egret
No
wicked oak
rip
neon egret
You can't use the Vive with it
wicked oak
they have revive anyway
neon egret
And it's not the source, it's just a way to add mods
wicked oak
you can just patch new controls if its unconfortable for vive users
neon egret
You can't build the game with it
wicked oak
ah
prime iris
ah :/
neon egret
Either there is other Source or they mean this with source
What does an additional sensor for rift cost?
sturdy coral
@neon egret game source and not engine source, or what?
$59 now
so it isn't like UnrealTournament, with full source?
neon egret
Doesn't seem so
I can't use Vive in the Mod editor
And it's an editor only for building mods
You can't package the game
So even if you create a mod that would feature vive control
You still can't play it as you don't have touch controllers
ergo you can't download the game from the oculus shop
Someone would need to download it and share it but then we are stepping into pirating if we are unlucky
sturdy coral
why couldn't you download it without touch controllers?
neon egret
Cause it costs 30$
sturdy coral
you can download medium and all that stuff without them
oh yeah
but nothing wrong with that
neon egret
Buying it for 30$ to !hope! that it works with ReVive?
sturdy coral
sucks it doesn't have full source like UT, would be nice to put the steamvr plugin back in
neon egret
Yeah, but that would also kinda speak against the rift exclusive
Cause open source would allow it to be used on any device
sturdy coral
yeah, I thought it might be a backdoor way against it
wicked oak
it does show c++ code
prime iris
Anybody know where that quote is from? It's the first comment in a r/vive discussion so I'm not 100% sure of it's authenticity
migth be a misinterpretation of mod support
sturdy coral
if it was full source like UT I would think it would be on the github
neon egret
Yop
prime iris
yeah. mods work by making a public interface for your game module right? could just be that being lost in translation by a non-technie
sturdy coral
how do you distribute mods?
eternal inlet
For those interrested, Revive plays RoboRecall just fine. I know that's not what the previous conversation was about. Just info
neon egret
I would assume it does
It's build up on Bullet Train
And that works fine too
If you want a Mod Editor you will need to talk to Epic
eternal inlet
pretty good fun
neon egret
They probably tell you how to package one
eternal inlet
but honestly weren't that impressed
neon egret
The ModEditor has buttons to create mods and publish them
Well it's a waveshooter or?
eternal inlet
i'd rather prefer they fixed the viewport lock to hmd so we can start making asymetric games using splitscreen
waveshooter with teleport sort of
neon egret
Yeah, the part i was interested in was adding some cool mods to it
eternal inlet
most of the time i was just standing still... didn't have time to teleport around much
neon egret
But guess that died
eternal inlet
but very satisfying to smash them to pieces 😃
sturdy coral
how does it feel compared to bullet train?
eternal inlet
didn't play bullet train
but from the videos, it looked quite similar to what i was playing in RoboRecall
gameplay wise
on my gtx970 it was occasionally lagging some though
sturdy coral
how is the teleport? lot of people complaining about the rotation of it
eternal inlet
it was quite annoying yes
sturdy coral
I think Epic's VR template had the same issue
eternal inlet
Epic's VR template works better than RoboRecall imo
rotations seemed to be locked to certain angles
sturdy coral
ah VRWorks is going to get DX12 support, last time I tried it with their branch it was missing a feature and wouldn't run:
unfortunately no DX12 on windows 8 still so you couldn't count on it for meeting oculus min-spec
full junco
well it's great that oculus lowered the price of the rift, now valve/HTC has to do the same for the vive
@eternal inlet epic always uses master/promoted for their games, not some old stable releases
full junco
master
eternal inlet
with the coming 4.16 stuff?
full junco
master
eternal inlet
aha
full junco
if I would release my game now I would also release it on 4.16
eternal inlet
oh... wait it was release i was pulling ofc
full junco
that's 4.15
full junco
currently 4.15 isn't super old yet so it's still acceptable to use it I think
I'm still on 4.15
eternal inlet
John, are you good with rotations and negative scales?
full junco
never tried to give anything a negative scale
eternal inlet
meh ok
the VR left hand in the VR template has a negative scale
and i noticed that if you put a child with negative scale for a mesh/collision under the something, add a rotation and add another child under that, it screws up
its not that important, but still anoying
full junco
no idea, rotation stuff can be really annoying
eternal inlet
indeed... looks like a gimbal lock issue tho
sturdy coral
anyone else notice this new branch?
I think it is going to be geometry editing inside VR
full junco
hm, interesting
epic also said they would like to make all dev branches available on github in the beginning of this year, so maybe it's also just part of that
sturdy coral
that would be nice
eternal inlet
looks interresting for sure
sturdy coral
I bet they have had a hard time just because they have to screen things for playstation etc. to make sure they don't break NDAs
full junco
well they wouldn't need to make the ps4 branch public
sturdy coral
I know, but they merge and stuff
I'm just saying they probably had more of a process just so they could make sure nothing inadvertantly slipped in
sturdy coral
I don't know since they did that payment plan thing
feral swan
i hope soon 😃
sturdy coral
they probably won't want to do it right away because of people that just bought into that, but maybe they could retroactively do it for them
I think Oculus is giving a $50 store credit to anyone who bought at the old price in the last 30 days or something
prime iris
not sure. they are priced more expensively now even after buying the extra cameras for perfect tracking
sturdy coral
but yeah, back on the private repository thing, UE4.14 had some details of nintendo switch's multiplayer and stuff leak a bit long before the press was speculating on it (inside the shootergame 4.14 update)
ebon musk
does the oculus even have room scale?
sturdy coral
@eternal inlet I bet they will see the need; on black friday it hit $600 with store-credit incentives so I think they can stomach a drop, especially if this LG thing is going to be priced competitively
eternal inlet
Yeah im also sure they will eventually.
sturdy coral
@ebon musk it doesn't at that price, but they dropped the price of extra cameras a bit too
ebon musk
Ah.
Personally I didn't find the vive too expensive
It's just a piece of high end gear
tired tree
hmmm, robo recalls character is 100% blueprint, I guess they really did want to have it as an example / modding tool
sturdy coral
interesting, you can't take it to other projects though right? (license wise)
did they use a character or a pawn?
tired tree
its root class is Odin char
but all of the logic is blueprint
i'm sure a bunch of the 100% BP VR devs will enjoy it, includes physics handle gripping and multiple interactions
sturdy coral
if it is licensed similar to UT it isn't the same as the marketplace examples and you can't use it in your own projects though but I guess you can learn from it
tired tree
its a full example of how to do things that a lot of them have been struggling with
digital marlin
Any info out yet about this LG thing?
tired tree
even without ripping its useful
sturdy coral
yeah
tired tree
find it kind of funny that the name of the physics gripp toggle is "Laggy hands toggle"
they didn't fix their late update implementation for that
tired tree
its easy to fix in code, they should just fix it already....
would have been easier to make some small changes to the controllers and push them engine wide than a bunch of the backwards logic on this char :p
sturdy coral
this was the change he said broke his:
"BugFix: Fixed an issue where simulated bodies could have their transforms changed during simulations.
This is an invalid operation as it means the physics simulation and the user's input will conflict. The old behavior was that we would pick one in an undefined way. This resulted in subtle timing bugs. To prevent this, we now ignore the transform of simulating bodies in this small window during simulation and will ignore the user's input."
tired tree
yeah he was directly setting transform to do it
in c++ you can just add the scene reference to the late update pipeline
sturdy coral
do you have code for that anywhere? I guess you can't have engine branches on bitbucket
tired tree
yeah, only have my plugin source on bitbucket
in the GatherLateUpdate function
just iterate over a list of non attached componentas
adding / removing from that iteration / setting flags for when it is allowed lets you directly control when something is late updated
and add non attached components
sturdy coral
and then moves them relative to the controller?
does it know like the difference between the controller's location at tick time vs during the late update and then apply that delta to the unattached component?
tired tree
yeah, late update gets the transform change from when the controller was updated, and where it is during the late update, makes a matrix out of it and transforms the scene representations on the render thread
tired tree
yup
only thing you have to modify is injecting additional components into the gathering step
and there are many ways to do that
all gripped objects I directly add to it, but also have an optional array of extra objects that will be late updated for the controller.
sturdy coral
that's cool, I had figured a lot of that was using hardcoded scene hierarchy methods to transform the attached components that you couldn't get access to easily
tired tree
nope
its easy
well
maybe
lemme check something
mmm
all of the functions are private to the FViewExtension that it creates
aight, you would have to make your own ViewExtension and skip the default tick for the parent controller.
then could do it as a subclass
sturdy coral
yeah, I don't mind just modifying it in engine but that could be good for your plugin
tired tree
i meant for a project level fix
I re-defined everything for my plugin, due to overhauling most of the motion controller
but project level it would be pretty easy to just do that small fix
sturdy coral
so if an object is penetrating like a table or something I guess you get a little jitter as it takes the delta and then snaps back on the next frame
tired tree
yeah I turn off late update for objects in collision
sturdy coral
ok yeah that's what I was thinking
tired tree
so you don't get the extra penetration
sturdy coral
if you had a hit over two frames or something
and if you are balancing objects on top of each other and stuff
you probably aren't moving fast anyway
and are ok without the late update
tired tree
i also turn it off for two handed interactions
otherwise its too jerky
and I don't want to re-calculate the correct rotations in the late update itself
because of all the extra data i would have to send to the render thread
mm, its interesting that they are actually using a character with a character movement component for Robo Recall
sturdy coral
I'm glad they are though, you can mod in good locomotion with that
are they doing any kind of replication for replays or anything (haven't played it yet)?
huh just got the mod pack downloaded
you can actually play it in VR without buying it just from the mod pack.. I guess it isn't the full thing
tired tree
mmmm, its just not using the movement components loco
they are just using the base class
the c++ is shipped too
ooooo, speech recog
sturdy coral
it is cool you can do most of the stuff in 2d with it
grab items and stuff
I've been working on adding that in the project I'm working on just for testing stuff quickly
sturdy coral
no the grabbing in 2d stuff
tired tree
oh
fps testing
yeah I derived from my VR pawn and locked the hands to locations and just use that :p
made a node that detects if the editor is running VR mode or not, and turns off HMD if it isn't
sturdy coral
I wonder if you can't just drop in the steamvr plugin directory
they have the simple HMD one
sturdy coral
in the project folder they have a Plugins folder with some plugins
tired tree
oh to their game
sturdy coral
yeah and some of the other plugins are source plugins
sturdy coral
just depends on what is different in 4.16 and if it is git master
if they changed the interface at all
and then if any of the code is checking the HMD name, etc.
tired tree
they haven't changed steamVR in any meaningful way for 3 versions
I have to check every time...
and the header change is already in
willing to bet it would compile right in
pearl tangle
didn't they do 1 recently that adjusted the loading environment stuff?
tired tree
it was a minor change
sturdy coral
When I tried to launch standalone it doesn't load, so you may have to buy the game for that.. looking into it a bit
neon egret
You would think that if they signed a contract that this game is only able to run under rift, they would make sure that you can't add vive support
So yeah, they probably filter the vive
tired tree
its got all fo the engine binaries
i'm trying with it in the project directory
they just rmeoved the steamvr plugin from the engine
sturdy coral
it lets you put in source plugins
so you can probably drop in steamvr, we are experimenting now
neon egret
Hm, try it, but I assume the button itself is locked
sturdy coral
what button?
neon egret
PreviewVR
tired tree
no....
sturdy coral
nope
neon egret
What no?
tired tree
you can test the mods in VR
sturdy coral
the preview vr button isn't locked
neon egret
So you were able to get the Vive running on the mod build?
sturdy coral
no we are experimenting still
neon egret
What detected what in which way
sturdy coral
if you load the 'Start' map you can seeming play the full game without buying from the oculus store
but I'm not sure it is fully working, it froze for me on load
n/m there it goes
everything is really slow to load and stuff I guess because it isn't a shipping and packaged build
clever sky
Epic leaving in the ability to run Steam VR with Robo Recall would be such a great fuck you to Oculus 😛
And would also make Tim Sweeney's position more consistent.
Well, it's not even that inconsistent - 10 mil to build out Epic's VR tech is a good deal - those benefits spready to VR developers like ourselves, who then bring those benefits to whatever platform we choose.
pearl tangle
you can't publish on oculus store with the steam VR plugin enabled...
what do you think of sprint vector @clever sky
sturdy coral
@pearl tangle you can't publish robo recall to the oculus store anyway, or you mean mods?
do they have a workflow for publishing mods to the store?
pearl tangle
no i mean if you try and release something on the oculus store it checks if the steam vr plugin is enabled and blocks you from uploading if its in your build
clever sky
@pearl tangle Looking forward to playing it - but disappointed they went with arm swinging only. Kinda makes sense tho... actual sprinting, even on the spot is tiring as hell.
sturdy coral
@pearl tangle but what is news about that? what does that have to do with robo recall?
pearl tangle
Zaptruder - Today at 9:12 AM
Epic leaving in the ability to run Steam VR with Robo Recall would be such a great fuck you to Oculus 😛
sturdy coral
oh
sturdy coral
yeah it seems to be just a drag and drop plugin
but not 100% sure yet
testing it out now and updating some stuff from git
the full game seems to be on the epic launcher without getting it from home
clever sky
My comment was in relation to much charles and mordentral getting it working through the editor :P
Maybe not a huge fuck you. But the point is, it'd be fun to get it running on both platforms.
sturdy coral
if you just get the mod kit
pearl tangle
yeah it shouldn't be too tough. when i tried it out a few months back I just found that it was way too restrictive with the forward facing only and having to use the joystick to control my teleport rotation
i found the same issue with arizona sunshine too though which is why my rift is sitting in a box on the floor
tired tree
lol got it to generate the engine files
clever sky
Well, things seem to be looking up for Oculus now... tracking issues largely resolved, more room scale friendly, price drop, library building up...
sturdy coral
@tired tree the engine source? or you mean got the plugin to compile?
clever sky
I still only plug it in to try oculus exclusives or work on Rift implementation 😛
tired tree
engine source
zinc violet
there is no SteamVR plugin in Robo Recall Mod kit
tired tree
altered some of the setup scripts
zinc violet
and you can't compile it without having Robo Recall version of the engine source code
you can't just drop in 4.15 or master builds steam vr plugin
sturdy coral
0lento there are source plugins you can compile already in there in the kit
zinc violet
really?
sturdy coral
yeah
neon egret
Question is, can he recompile the 4.15 steamvr plugin with 4.16RR
neon egret
And then, if that actually allows us to use the vive
pearl tangle
but can you pull in your own plugins then?
zinc violet
hmm, they do ship engine sources
sturdy coral
also mordentral just said he figured out a way for it to pull in all the engine source somehow
tired tree
i mean, i'm probably not going to compile the entire source
I have other things to do tonight
just playing around
that shit takes my comp forever
sturdy coral
yeah
neon egret
Well I'm heading to bed. Happily waiting for the result of this
twin sedge
anyone get it to work on the vive yet?
i see you can export assets.. hypothetically you could export the entire game to a new project...
twin sedge
yea i figured that might be the block 😄
you can play with keyboard and mouse tho.. first level only it seems
zinc violet
does the mod kit even come with more than bunch of levels?
pearl tangle
handy to learn from though
twin sedge
yea.. so much good stuff to pull apart
sturdy coral
@zinc violet not sure how much it comes with, it has the intro screen and intro sequence
it is loading really slow on some stuff for me so haven't gotten too far into it
twin sedge
it uses a ton of ram
sturdy coral
yeah I remember kite demo required like 24gigs for editor play but only 8gigs for packaged play or something
twin sedge
lol! robo recall was using 10-11 for me in editor
twin sedge
i think each level has day/night mode too
mighty carbon
lol, so much hate toward oculus
sturdy coral
@mighty carbon not really, if Oculus let them put out the full mod kit that easily allows steamvr to be dropped in then it is a great thing they did
sturdy coral
for the plugin?
twin sedge
you can play it in the editor with mouse and keyboard
WSAD + QE + spacebax
x seems to auto win the map
sturdy coral
I wonder if it depends on all that VR refactoring stuff that is mentioned in the trello
twin sedge
look down to see your guns
to start the actual game play you have to teleport into the portal in the office
sturdy coral
yeah you can also load the "Start" map to get the full experience
twin sedge
if you WSAD to move around, it doesnt trigger the events, you have to hold space to move
sturdy coral
that's what loads if you do standalone too I think
mighty carbon
@sturdy coral and if they made sure you can't run it on Vive ?
tired tree
then whatever
sturdy coral
wait full engine source:
tired tree
not a big deal
mighty carbon
do you Vive folks have Revive or something like that ?
twin sedge
exi posted a gif of it not allowing you to run
i plugged my vive in too and it doesnt seem to let me
twin sedge
interesting
sturdy coral
we are working on adding the steamvr plugin in
sturdy coral
@tired tree I see the full engine source without doing anything special with the setup scripts
tired tree
yeah revive works obv
mighty carbon
sturdy coral
Program Files\Epic Games\RoboRecallModKit\Engine\Source
tired tree
i meant generation project files charles
sturdy coral
ah I see
pearl tangle
would want to kill the teleport rotation side of things in there too
tired tree
oculus specifically stated they wanted revive to work from here on out
zinc violet
where?
mighty carbon
now I just want to know about Zeni injunction status
sturdy coral
they said they fixed a mic bug because Rift users were having to hear it as an example of working with revive
but I don't think they made a strong commitment
tired tree
they stated they were working on it being more stable going forward
i don't have the interview link
pearl tangle
yeah but they still block steam vr from being enabled in apps submitted to the store..
tired tree
yes
sturdy coral
sturdy coral
from the oculus plugin headers we should be able to see if it is superficial or not..
hopefully it isn't the full refactor thing
mighty carbon
hmm.. launched UE4 launcher and got updated EULA in my face
tired tree
they do that every time they add a mod kit
mighty carbon
probably added Robo Recall stuff
tired tree
conan had a pop up too
mighty carbon
yeah, I see it now.
sturdy coral
I wonder if it has a no-vives clause 😃
mighty carbon
as if you have other option 😛
sturdy coral
@tired tree I just diffed the Oculus plugin public header and saw no changes between 4.15 and roborecall
haven't tried building yet
mighty carbon
did anyone see Carmack talking ? They announced it, but not sure if they recorded it
zinc violet
btw
addition on UE4 eula is this
Epic grants you a non-exclusive, non-transferable, non-sublicensable license, during the period in which Epic makes access to the Robo Recall Content available to you, for a single User to use, reproduce, and modify the Robo Recall Content for the sole purpose of creating Robo Recall Mods for use with the Robo Recall video game (the “Robo Recall Mod Support License”). You may not Distribute or sublicense to any person, or include in any product, any Robo Recall Content. However, you may Distribute Robo Recall Mods, but only in the form of .robo files and only if you do not charge a fee. The Robo Recall Mod Support License does not grant you any title, ownership rights, or other intellectual property rights in any Robo Recall Content. You agree to retain and reproduce in all copies of the Robo Recall Content the copyright, trademark, and other proprietary notices and disclaimers of Epic as they appear in the Robo Recall Content. Upon Epic ceasing to make access to the Robo Recall Content available or termination of the Epic Licenses under Section 17, or upon earlier written notice from Epic if you materially breach the terms of the Robo Recall Mod Support License, you must destroy all copies of the Robo Recall Content. All references in this paragraph to the Robo Recall Content include modified versions thereof made by you under the Robo Recall Mod Support License.```hmm, so what are the limitations of a .robo file?
zinc violet
technically that just says you can't distribute robo recalls content to anyone unless it's both free and clearly a mod for the game
sturdy coral
yeah but what exactly is a .robo file? can it have source changes?
zinc violet
no idea
they do pack all the sources for mod support
so you'd think so
actual game code seems to be there too
tired tree
everything is there
sturdy coral
yeah, I'm hoping we can put out a .robo file that basically just adds vive support
clever sky
So once LG releases their Steam VR compatible gear...
do we just call it Steam VR support? 😛
zinc violet
^
clever sky
Colloquially the community uses Vive and Steam VR interchangeably.
tired tree
better if they didn't
clever sky
Sticking VR onto the back of everything makes it confusing as well.
zinc violet
engine itself doesn't say htc vive anymore though
tired tree
Steam VR is beyond just the vive
clever sky
Steam VR, Open VR... not sure what the diff is.
zinc violet
I can use even riftcat with SteamVR
and that works in unreal
(app that turns cardboard mobile VR into steam vr)
clever sky
What's Steam VR to open VR? open VR is the standards that run the Steam VR gear?
sturdy coral
OpenVR is the API, SteamVR is the implementation
clever sky
Ah ok
sturdy coral
there is separate app API and a driver API too
the driver API lets other headsets use the steamvr implementation
zinc violet
hmmmm
sturdy coral
gotta see how this .robo stuff works
with that license you couldn't distribute with a different engine build
zinc violet
sure, but you could still try it out yourself
sturdy coral
yeah
zinc violet
it's bit in the gray area but EULA doesn't directly tell you can't do that
or well
they kinda do
Epic grants you a non-exclusive, non-transferable, non-sublicensable license, during the period in which Epic makes access to the Robo Recall Content available to you, for a single User to use, reproduce, and modify the Robo Recall Content for the sole purpose of creating Robo Recall Mods for use with the Robo Recall video game (the “Robo Recall Mod Support License”).
sole purpose of creating mods for the game
so, there's that
but yeah, modding is still technically allowed
wonder if one could move steamvr into project plugin
and get it included that way around
prime iris
i heard that oculus home will give you cooties
zinc violet
well, this doesn't have anything to do with oculus home, we never downloaded the mod kit from oculus 😃
mighty carbon
oh but so much hate for Oculus
zinc violet
and as long as eula is not breached, there's nothing they can do about it (but change the eula)
sturdy coral
just moving the plugin alone doesn't work so far, it doesn't get built
zinc violet
I know
prime iris
oh? You don't have to install roborecall to mod the game?
zinc violet
nope
prime iris
um, install oculus home
sturdy coral
you can download and play without buying it
zinc violet
that's how they've designed the system
sturdy coral
you need revive to do it with Vive so far
mighty carbon
lol, just buy it and play via Revive..
prime iris
i don't want to steal it, that's not cool. but i also don't want to use revive because it's against my religion
zinc violet
like said, it's not stealing if you go by the eula
sturdy coral
I'm not sure yet if it has the entire game but it seems to
zinc violet
but of course, it's not what they want you to do
sturdy coral
I doubt they care at all
prime iris
it's not about what other people want
it's about what i want the world to be like!
i'm not going to compromise my values because a game looks cool
zinc violet
I'd prefer world without facebook 😃
clever sky
Don't blame me! I'm not the one using Facebook here.
prime iris
i got bored of people telling me how their day sucked and that they were opening a bottle of wine
mighty carbon
(I have account, but I don't really post there or read it on daily basis)
prime iris
and haven't used facebook in a decade
sturdy coral
ok yeah there is definitely missing stuff
if you load the level view it will show the missing sublevels
so you still have to buy to get everything
prime iris
too bad. i guess i'll just have to wait for other games to steal it's design choices :<
storm vortex
Hey all it's been a while. I'm still on 4.14.1. How's 4.15 for VR? Is it stable?
clever sky
Hey @storm vortex how's the game coming along?
storm vortex
After I made my video I took a long break. I got burned out working on it during those two months. In the meantime dealt with some legal stuff and now have my Steam account and game uploaded. Store page is still private. I need to refine the demo a bit more before I release it.
I saw a screenshot in the chat earlier of 4.16. I thought 4.15 just came out. @clever sky
clever sky
Nice stuff.
Also I think those guys are talking about a testing build of 4.16, not the live build.
zinc violet
oh wait
Robo Recall costs 30€
but is free with touch
but it can only be played with touch 😄
so the 30€ is only for revive users?
sturdy coral
@zinc violet also costs if you buy a second hand touch, same thing they have done with medium and quill etc. which seems fine
zinc violet
ah
now I get the comments about buying it
I thought it was free for all on oculus store
sturdy coral
yeah they did that with lucky's tale and stuff but not with the touch titles
it is a step in the right direction compared to the hardware DRM stuff they tried to add
but yeah it seems you can't make source code mods for Robo Recall for distribution unless I am missing something, so I'm losing interest if it can't have drop in steamvr support without revive
mighty carbon
@zinc violet it's free for Touch owners
(which is probably most of Oculus users)
so I am guessing Vive users can buy it and play it via Revive.. Pretty thoughtful of Oculus
pearl tangle
More new toys. MSI Backpack PC
mighty carbon
nice
mighty carbon
5k USD probably
pearl tangle
nah was $2500 USD
mighty carbon
still pricey 😃
prime iris
it come with a full system or just a case/mobo for 2.5k?
pearl tangle
its a decent i7 and a 1070 card in it with 512gb nvme. I think it only has 16gb ram though but i can upgrade that
mighty carbon
good write off at the end of the year though 😃
pearl tangle
it's the full setup
prime iris
that's not bad for the price
sturdy coral
I wanted one of those up until wireless was demoed working well
pearl tangle
well since none of the wireless solutions will allow for more than 1 person in a space at a time this is the only option for a while
prime iris
i'm skipping wireless until it's an integrated feature
sturdy coral
@pearl tangle what kind of stuff are you working on with multiple people in the space? corporate stuff like architecture?
prime iris
the current setups seem like a lot of extra weight that could be better distributed if it was designed that way
pearl tangle
a range of different things. I have 1 company that we are focussing purely on enterprise applications like data vizualisation, city planning and whatnot. then with my other business we are doing more on the marketing side so events for brands and whatnot
prime iris
the non-gaming aspects are pretty interesting