you can't just assume that the player is in the center of the room, so I would consider it a bug if the world moves when the player just wants to rotate
#virtual-reality
full junco
candid viper
@full junco It doesn't look to be moving, but as I'm near the centre of the roomscale space the offset would be small - just in terms of whether I can see it or not. So I can't be sure the code is correct. If it is, then it will show up in thwe world position of the camera changing after the turn - I don't have time to test right now, but will do later on. If it is wrong, then it is a case of finding where the camera is relative to the roomscale origin and using that to correct during the teleport.
full junco
@candid viper ok, but that would be more like an ugly workaround and not a nice solution for only turning the camera I think
graceful junco
You can't just simply rotate the camera, because then the person irl and the camera would look in two different directions, since you can't rotate the person :). You need to rotate the room as well, which means the actor location changes. I don't see a way around that. You just need to calculate the new actor location whenever you rotate the view/room.
candid viper
@full junco Just had chance to test my setup. I first stood in the centre of the roomscale space, fixed a target, then step rotated 360 degrees. Ended up facing the target. Then I moved to the corner of the roomscale area and repeated the test. Same result - rotating on the spot without moving, ending up facing the target spot after rotating 360 degrees. That was on SteamVR (just in case there was any difference, I have the functionality really for Oculus use).
full junco
@candid viper even if the world would move, after 360 degrees you would always face the same target again I think
tired tree
You need to rotate the player controller using default setup
also when trying to get correct offset, rotate around a custom pivot of the player
I have sample code somewhere in BP from helping a guy do it for himself
full junco
@tired tree if you have that code somewhere and you can find it without searching long then it would be nice to see that 😃
tired tree
its in my plugin thread posted as pictures from the guy
i'll look
this is what he posted
not sure that is exactly how I would go about it
but it worked for him
so might help be a reference
full junco
@tired tree interesting, thanks!
tired tree
tfw accidental ninja: https://youtu.be/Lu5tgOrTgak?t=3m9s
mighty carbon
sweet, except UE4 won't get it 😦
heh, interesting https://twitter.com/gameism/status/828727261662699521
native cedar
I dream of a day when multires and forward rendering walk on the same path.
mighty carbon
in Gear VR ?
wicked oak
- instanced stereo too
instanced stereo + lens matched shading(multires 2.0) + forward
instanced stereo + LMS is on the nvidia vrworks branch
tired tree
single pass stereo
lens matched shading is great though
huge difference, takes a quality hit on the edges but the perf is huge
wicked oak
its a better version of multires
truly great
but it has the issue of being GTX10X0 only
tired tree
yeah well, amd has their own solution now right?
wicked oak
that is implemented nowhere
Epic isnt going to implement 2 branchs, one for nvidia and other for AMD
nvidia implemented their own into ue4
amd doesnt
tired tree
the open VR standard will hopefully handle it eventually
i will say that nvidias implementation is terrible
tired tree
they missed multiple AMD card checks that I had to manually patch
wicked oak
ive tested Multires and its awesome
tired tree
fixed two of them since then but not all
causes crashing and artifacts on amd hardware
even with the features set to off btw...
still frost
Is there tutorial that shows you how to implement the VR template from scratch to learn the ins and outs ? Setting up teleport etc
mighty carbon
nope
still frost
Guess I'll just sit down and really go over all the BP tutorials and advanced ones
mighty carbon
yep
wintry escarp
don't phones use tile rendering that doesn't work for these vr tricks?
mighty carbon
native cedar
did anybody attempt to merge the multires branch by himself?
would you think it possible for an extraordinary human?
tired tree
to the forward renderer?
its easy for deferred
well, kind of
some shaders need updates
native cedar
ye
I'll be spending tomorrow investigating on how easy would it be to put 4.13's multires (nvidia's branch) in 4.15
mighty carbon
👍
native cedar
doing some profiling on 4.13 with multires and forward and hookers but there is this hbz setupmips taking like 5ms
mighty carbon
Nvidia released a guide about how to port it to UE4 master
native cedar
would you know where that guide would be??
native cedar
there is sooooooo much love for you right now, you saved me time
mighty carbon
🖖
native cedar
I suggest you guys try 4.13 with multires, forward and baked lights
sp at 250 and msaa count 2
it's orgasmic
mighty carbon
what GPU do you have ?
native cedar
1080
8ms frame time
8 freaking ms
on the blueprints demo environment
that one with the tree in the middle and the cameras
mighty carbon
heh, 1080
I am thinking of getting 1060 to make sure weakest VR PCs can run my projects
I wonder how much performance gain happens on lower end hardware when using all these fancy features for VR
wintry escarp
got yourself a rift?
native cedar
tuning out, g'night lads, or good work!
wintry escarp
o/
mighty carbon
@wintry escarp no, still need to get new GPU
1060 costs like $260 or so
thinking about it
I need to upgrade GPU anyway, for offline rendering
raven halo
does anyone know what is the worst phone in terms of specs that is compatible with google daydream?
mighty carbon
Axon
wintry escarp
I thought only pixel had the nougat update needed for daydream
mighty carbon
(it's not the worst, but cheapest, so I expect that's what a lot of people who look into mobile VR will use)
ah, true
Axon comes with 6.0.1
wintry escarp
axon was pretty good, dual sim and fingerprint reader was much better than my crappy S7
wintry escarp
its a phone, once its in a rubber case theyre both chunky
mighty carbon
well, that's why I got sexy case too 😛
wintry escarp
I use a spigen with the plastic shell removed
mighty carbon
same here, but I use thinnest one of them all
didn't have any extra plastic shell
^^^ can I disable laser beam, or at least change color of it (no C++) ?
raven halo
hmmmm
I've googled the Axon
noticed it has a Snapdragon 820 instead of Google Pixel's 821
and found this:
"One of the main reason why Google used the Snapdragon 821 in the Pixel phones is the Snapdragon VR SDK (Software Development Kit). This is entirely unavailable with the Snapdragon 820. The new SDK comes with advanced VR toolset to give the developers broad access to the internal architecture of the Snapdragon 821 chipset. This is extremely useful and fully compatible with Google Daydream platform. The VR SDK helps in the rendering of cutting-edge visual and audio which helps in state of the art Virtual Reality experience."
what does that mean?
will my VR game work on it?
full junco
if daydream is junk then gearvr is also junk
@mighty carbon there is no laser beam by default, the widget interaction component is invisible. every laser beam you see you have to add manually
mighty carbon
oh, I see, thanks. I thought it's default. Alrighty then. How would you draw that laser beam ? (least performance taxing method)
full junco
a cylinder mesh
wicked oak
im doing a cylinder mesh
in fact, there IS a laser pointer mesh in the engine meshes
its used for the VR editor laser pointers
mighty carbon
wouldn't stretched quad with solid color material be more performant ?
(remember, on mobile every triangle counts and cylinder has too many for laser beam)
just saying...
full junco
you are thinking way too much about performance
those 30 triangles of a cylinder are completely irrelevant
wicked oak
the shader of the cylinder is going to be more expensive
cylinder looks better in VR motorsep
doing a billboard or particle, while less triangles, it has to do extra calculation
the cylinder is just a very basic mesh on it
wicked oak
give it a few more polys
so its rounder
just use the default laser pointer already in the engine
that one is cool enough
raven halo
@mighty carbon I don't think GearVR is junk at all! Daydream looks even better to me! but admittedly I haven't worked with it yet. But having a controller is very cool! Why do you say it's junk?
mobile VR is junk, relatively speaking to... Vive for example. And even so, I think it's very, very promising.
wicked oak
biggest playerbase by far
and its the most approchable
Daydream is like a generic GearVR
but its slightly worse becouse GearVR is optimized by carmack himself
mighty carbon
Software behind Daydream is crap. You have to always recenter/reset HMD and controller. HMD leaks light like crazy. No focus wheel there too. No HRFT sound. UE4 integration is abysmal (check VR section on the forum).
phone heats up insanely. Galaxy heats up to, but not as badly as Daydream phones (Pixel is one that I read about)
not to mention your game/app will get lost in Play store instantly
@raven halo ^^
raven halo
oh shit
I noticed the focus wheel missing
that is insane imo
I've been showing around my gearvr demo to some friends, and they all had to use to get a sharp picture
the thermal issues are the ones that worry me the most
mighty carbon
Gear VR went through intense engineering and UX testing. Daydream seems like "let's get Cardboard and re-brand it" without any second thought
raven halo
but but.... the control seems cool D:
also, I would have thought there were not that many games on the store
are there already that many that your game can easily get lost?
mighty carbon
meh, it's not the same as real motion controllers. It's only useful for things like point and click, but for the rest of the stuff you would rather use gamepad
I think it's just Play store and not walled section like Oculus Home. I might be mistaken though.
nice.. that's a big step for more immersive VR worlds - talking to NPCs using voice
mighty carbon
I wish there was voice recognition functionality in UE4 for Android
(there is a plugin for Windows though)
mighty carbon
are there any stats on how many people got Touch ?
real needle
I also asked in the multiplayer section, but does someone has experience with multiple VR player in VR? I could use some help.
granite jacinth
@real needle PMd you
pearl tangle
@mighty carbon the daydream controller is surprisingly usable. Works much better than holding your hand up to your head to press some buttons and lets you easily point at things and provide some basic interaction methods. It is pretty much a wii mote. You can do dev with it by taking a secondary android phone and emulating the controller on there so it has all the same gyro and accelerometer capabilities which means you can do your dev prototyping with just a cardboard and 2 phones which is helpful. Expect Samsung to have something similarish perhaps on their next 1
mighty carbon
well, when Samsung adds it, I'll deal with it 😉
Apparently UE4 has some issues with Daydream controller because of the way Google provided software
pearl tangle
haven't played with it much but seemed to work fine. It's just a bit restrictive compared to proper motion controllers
I have a 67 page brief from Samsung open on my screen at the moment about the next device 😉
pearl tangle
for some reason there is a graph in there that seems super super incorrect
with regards to sales of VR headsets
done by piper jaffray and says copyright 2017 but it's talking about projected for 2016 so seems like they put it together like early last year
wintry escarp
Samsung gave away most of those gearvr headsets
I wonder how the court case will affect oculus
sony sold a lot fast
glossy agate
@pearl tangle And they called PSVR by the old name. And I think PSVR sold the most units behind Gear VR.
pearl tangle
yep. the actual order would be
Google Cardboard
Gear VR
Daydream
PSVR
Vive
Rift
that must have been a prediction from first thing last year
wintry escarp
daydream cant be that high yet, only 2 or 3 phones do it so far
glossy agate
Yeah, I think I saw a talk from GDC yt channel that was talking about it. Apparently there are already about 25 VR roller coasters at the amusement parks of the world too. I want to try that
pearl tangle
daydream can be that high when they have sold millions of the phones already
glossy agate
I thought the sales were really dismal though so they dropped the price by a bunch already
pearl tangle
thats usually how things go with it. sales were pretty impressive, like twice the pace of the nexus 6
mighty carbon
there was an article about how Daydream having hard time taking off
pearl tangle
content wise yeah. but when you are talking just on pure numbers they are never looking at actual usage rates, otherwise gear vr would be sitting closer to the bottom
mighty carbon
also there are not whole a lot of announcement for new apps/games for it.. My guess it people tried it, say it's not as good as Gear VR and all buzz faded away
pearl tangle
I think 99% of people that try it think it's better than gear vr because developers and hardcore gamers are not the market for mobile vr headsets. daydream view has nailed the comfort and design and ease of use that gear vr hasn't
mighty carbon
eeh, I am not sure we read the same Internets
so far from what I've read it was not good
light leaks (major), no focus wheel, no camera pass through, drifting every now and then (especially controller), pushes on your nose a lot because there is no upper strap, etc. etc.
glossy agate
I saw a cool kickstarter earlier that had a base station, 2 controllers and a head tracker you can use with carboard. You attach it to the computer and you can play all the good steam games with it.
If it works good, I think it will bring on a bunch of new consumers because it was like $150 I think
mighty carbon
Nolo VR
glossy agate
Yep, thats the one
mighty carbon
It uses Vive's Lighthouse tech
So it offers positional tracking and Vive-like wands
probably not as low latency as Vive, but from the looks of it it's low enough
(most likely better than Daydream)
pearl tangle
yep it can have a lot of problems but when your main customer base is not vr professionals then regular people don't even notice light leaks or other issues
mighty carbon
well, maybe for YouTube consumption it works 😃
But then hardcore games will never sell on Daydream
pearl tangle
thats the majority of the uses of mobile vr
hardcore gamers will never sell on mobile vr in general
mighty carbon
how so?
pearl tangle
something crazy like 80%+ usage time of mobile vr is in passive 360 experiences
mighty carbon
I guess because there is nothing else to do 😉
I haven't used my Gear VR for anything except development because there are no games or really cool experiences
I am not interested in 360 deg blurry vids :/
(although I never got to see Lost, which I was hoping would be good)
I wish Rift had larger userbase.. I could see myself investing in Rift instead of S8
As a matter of fact, Rift is cheaper than Vive if someone wants to get into high end VR in stages.. Get Rift, then Touch, then more sensors. Rift has a bunch of awesome full games coming soon. Yet somehow Vive is ahead in numbers. I bet it's due to devs/enterprise and not really non-devving end-users.
glossy agate
With the touch and 3rd sensor isnt it the same price as vive though?
mighty carbon
yeah
but you can't just buy Vive HMD and 1 Lighthouse
you have to fork over $800 upfront
zinc rose
I have both Rift/Touch and Vive. Vive is much much better in terms of tracking and stability than Vive at least on my rig. This could be very USB specific because its all USB (which sucks due to room scales). Vive light houses don't require USB connectivity which is much nicer. Also the cable length on the rift is a joke. Not meant for standing experiences. Extenders for USB and HDMI are finicky with it though there has been some success i hear. Both cost the same shipped.. at least in CAD. Touch controllers feel a lot nicer for games where you aren't holding projectile style items like guns or bows etc.... Vive controllers work amazing for guns and stuff.. but when it comes to just using your hands for interaction or boxing, melee... touch controllers FEEL much nicer. Also I prefer joysticks to touch pads. The rift side button is pretty awfully placed as well. Most people tend to constnatly squeeze it because its hard to avoid and extremely sensitive. If you use it to "reload" your guns or do anything important in the VR app expect it to be held 90% of the time. very annoying. Rift/touch combo also comes with a "tv" style remote I guess thats standard with rift and also an xbox one controller
touch side button*
mighty carbon
yeah, but I was making a point about cost
you can invest into Rift slowly (and has has more advantages over Vive except tracking), whether with VIve you have to pay upfront everything
zinc rose
Makes sense. they will cost the same in the end though. But I'm not sure about buying a single replacement part actually for vive. I'm assuming you could if you reach out to them but I havent tried yet.
mighty carbon
you can, but they are expensive
also, while it will cost the same at the end, I don't have $800 to throw at complete VR system
sturdy coral
Rift is $960 with three sensors and the right usb PCI-e card 😛 I've spent almost $300 even with a free rift and touch trying toget four sensors working (two extra sensors and a now two pci-e cards)
but some motherboards have good compatibility and that isn't an issue, mine was pretty old
mighty carbon
again, you didn't have to throw all that at once
you could have scaled up slowly
IMO going with Rift is wiser, because you get to play all Rift and VIve games. Going Vive limits you to crappy library of mediocre (mostly games).
sturdy coral
revive works better for me than the Rift in a lot of cases (like in medium), but Rift is enough lighter weight that I like keeping it around
zinc rose
yep. I was pretty unhappy with the amount of USB needed. I tried it on two pcs... I had more luck with an older Intel board than my main AMD one. I have three sensors... and while the third one works behind the player.. theres a noticeable difference.. you can tell in game when you're not facing the two primary
sturdy coral
if I can ever get all four cameras working with rift without glitchiness I probably will use it over vive at least until wireless is out
mighty carbon
I wonder if this mobo will work well with Constellation https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132566
zinc rose
i found the third sensor was tough to get recognized all the time until i moved it to a usb2 port. then it was good. but the tracking still suffers when you're facing just the third and not the two front ones
but then the cable is so short once you're facing that way its tough to do anything anyway. i bought extenders... the usb ones worked but the hdmi one didnt.. havent been bothered to buy a different one yet
mighty carbon
did you get what Oculus recommended ?
zinc rose
No. I ordered without thinking it would matter. Afterward I read around but i only saw threads that say they dont officially support any extenders.
maybe thats changed.. but i saw a thread of people testing and posting links so im sure i can get one now that is confirmed to work.. just didnt wana spend more money on the set up when i have the vive working well along side
(I dont play games on oculus at the moment, so its not a priority. Got it first more for dev testing.)
zinc rose
posted end of last month? yeah that wasnt out when i was setting up
sturdy coral
$960 all in with a third camera and a PCI-e controller and still only ends up with an 8x8ft playspace =/
zinc rose
but at first glance it looks a little depressing. Having to add usb cards to support the USB plugs as well as get extenders. Maybe they were never planning on competing with the vive in the VR space. maybe they just want to try and own the sitting/static VR space.
otherwise this isn't a great approach
sturdy coral
that's why I'm trying for four cameras, cause my desk is outside of my main playspace and I really need tracking there while developing
mighty carbon
lol, I don't even have that much space
but I don't want to walk around with wires
I plan on standing and turning 360 deg.
zinc rose
My Oculus set up is hooked up to my media streaming pc... its not fantastic but its got my old 960 when i upgraded my main to a 1070... so it runs Vive well. its runs the oculus better than my main rig. and luckily since its a media streamer its in the projector room so i have about 30 feet by 15 ft.. unfortuantely the box is hidden nicely so i lose about half the cable under the couch before its even usable
once youre used to the wire, its like second nature to avoid it in game in all honesty
generally i do a full build and copy it over to that pc to test on oculus
which is a pain
sturdy coral
yeah I basically compromise with rift and keep one sensor on my desk, so with three I only have standing 360 plus seated, but I have some drop outs when turning around with hands low. I'm not sure even with 4 cameras I'll get the same area as vive. I have about 12x12' plus my desk outside of the area and my couch outside of the area all covered
zinc rose
I actually dont think a 4th would help that much. from what it looks like the sensor covers.. its not a visibility issue. at least it shoudlnt be.
maybe a distance or USB bandwidth thing. I donno. But I have the exact same problem with three.
i might just be spoiled by the vive too. I had it first and when i set the light houses up. The tracking was just phenomenal and so real-time. I was genuinely impressed.
mighty carbon
I bet most non-developers will go for sitting with controller or standing in spot with Touch experiences
I highly doubt there will be a lot of people with a lot of free space to use it with actual roomscale
sturdy coral
sure, but I want to use it for development that will be used by vive users too; I'd like to use it over vive just because it is lighter weight
end up having to switch back and forth
mighty carbon
I would most definitely prefer controller (gamepad, flight stick, steering wheel, etc.) for vehicular games
sturdy coral
with how many problems there are I don't think there are going to be a high percentage of ordinary consumers even with 360 support; click turning, etc. is pretty much mandatory because of it
sturdy coral
and the desk is going to block the floor for a lot of users; if you wanted a shot of your gaming getting on PSVR you were already going to have to work around lots of limitations anyway
that looks cool
zinc rose
the amount of space is a nice feature. but in reality i dont use that much space even though I have it. It's just as good being able to move in game. Its the rotation thats important. 360 tracking and a good foot or two to move in all directions is pretty good
sturdy coral
agreed, would probably agree less if I couldn't tolerate artificial motion and could only do teleport though
zinc rose
thats a good point lol. not every game is for everyone. Though its simple enough to add support for both
i felt pretty woozy when i first got the vive... even in games like office sim
just played a few mins a day for a week ish... and now i can play for like hours without issue if i want.
sturdy coral
as long as there is no artificial rotation
I made this video of fps movement without rotation about a year ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo2u38WmF-o
audio got messed up though, this one described it a little more
pearl tangle
I remember that 1. Did you end up releasing your kinect integration stuff with that @sturdy coral ?
zinc rose
Yea I can move in FPS forever without feeling woozy now at all. Even upstairs or falling off ledges is good. As mentioned if the rotation is off though it causes bad times.
sturdy coral
@pearl tangle no, I haven't released it, it has gone through a lot of changes
pearl tangle
id be keen to play around with your kinect way of the mixed reality stuff actually for an upcoming project
@sturdy coral is that part fairly decoupled from the rest of your stuff?
digital marlin
Would love to see Kinect stuff
The way people shift their weight when they walk and stand makes it seem so much more real,
native cedar
I don't get it, if msaa are a geometry thing and txaa are applied on the frame, why is it not possible to use both?
full junco
@native cedar it would be possible to use both in theory I think, it would be ideal, but you would have both the cost so no one bothered to implement it yet
MSAA for edges of geometry and TAA for aliasing inside geometry would be very nice
but in VR no one would want to pay that cost, so people would still only use one even if you could combine them
native cedar
I am studying the best rendering system for unreal, will touch source so anything is an option here.
Would the single pass stereo thing (halves the cost of geometry) from Nvidia improve msaa since they are a geometry thing?
wicked oak
nvidia VRWorks 4.14 just popped up
too bad i dont have an AMD to test the games
wich is quite dangerous
but if it works, i can use it on my 1070 laptop for when i show the game this weekend 😃
tawdry dragon
@wicked oak I know this is not the right place, but did you still need an editor? I can forward you to a friend of mine, who works as an editor 80% of the time
tawdry dragon
cool, I will PM you some contact details
wicked oak
today and tomorrow i have some exams, so i cant focus much on other stuff. Friday ill be improving the game for the "demo" version that ill be showing
native cedar
I have read lms is actually much better than multires both quality and performance wise
also I almost finished unpacking dat 4.14 vrworks branch, will compile before noon hopefully
(it's 10.10 here)
wicked oak
damn, if it is clearly better than multires....
it has an issue tho
10X0 only
multires works on the 970
wich is the most common gpu
native cedar
yeah I always talk on my scope: vr experiences made for events that will run on high end hardware
which makes lms a good option
wait 4.14 setup.bat is asking to overwrite file changes
is it that nvidia trick again
what do
wicked oak
for the anime convention where im going to show the game in my laptop, this build will be really nice
with LMS ill be able to bump up the resolution by a lot
and be the best VR game in the whole indie games section of that
like i use to be
native cedar
yesterday I have seen the power of ridicolous supersampling with msaa
in unreal
it's incredible
tawdry dragon
Will using the VRWorks banch give better performance right off the bat?
wicked oak
yes
but you need to have a nvidia card
just enabling LMS will get you +30/50% pixel performance
wich basically means you can bump up the resolution of your game while keeping the same performance as before
wicked oak
LMS is a improved version of multires
like multires 2.0
multires on VRMultigames allowed me to put screen percentage to 200
without performance issues
thats how strong that thing is
wicked oak
no
tawdry dragon
I have never done anything like that
restive blade
LMS ?
restive blade
ooh
so.. no longer just rendering rectangles.. but the aprox outline of the lens ?
deft badge
What libs are available for vive projects? I'm trying out a few tonight, but I thought I'd ask here too.
restive blade
what u mean?
deft badge
Interactions, buttons, sliders, locomotion stuff
real needle
@wicked oak is LMS enabled by default in the LMS UE4 repo? I just build from source and switch an existing projects engine version and Im good to go with LMS?
Any downsides to using this repo?
wicked oak
there is a console command and config
im leaving, so dont expect to comunicate with me
real needle
Alright, thanks!
deft badge
I mean something like this https://vrtoolkit.readme.io/ b ut for UE4
pearl tangle
yep do a search in the learn tab. there are several. 1 of them even sitting on the marketplace for free
deft badge
@pearl tangle Ta bloke, checking it out
pearl tangle
aussiest thing I have heard all year mate hah
mighty carbon
Well, you could just grab 4.14 from Nvidia and use that
full junco
@mighty carbon 4.14 is quite old now
mighty carbon
When 4.16 is out, Nvidia will release 4.15 :)
wicked oak
as expected, but the 4.13 to 4.14 merge was probably very hard
due to all the new stuff for the forward renderer and instanced stereo stuff getting in the way
tired tree
There IS no vrworks code for forward rendering in 4.13
so it would be a total re-write of forward rendering specific code
deferred is easy, you DIFF it to base engine, apply changes to new, fix up inconsistancies
a few shaders break and have to be manually edited but its mostly good
clever sky
Could be fun!
tired tree
the forward renderer in 4.13 was just the deferred renderer with stuff stripped out
clever sky
Could also be terrible. Depends on how well they've designed the VR interaction stuff.
mighty carbon
The original game had decent settings, but execution was terrible :(
clever sky
Yeah. So wouldn't hold up too much hope for this.
On the flipside, VR has a way of making mediocre games a lot more fun.
tired tree
meh, I wouldn't only say that for initially
once the charm breaks a bit its just the same shit game
mighty carbon
I wish AAA companies let indies use their assets and experiment with IP
clever sky
@tired tree Well, I'm thinking about well received VR games like Onward and Vanishing Realms. They're well done for VR.
But they would sink like stones on the broader desktop market.
tired tree
Onward is still clunky, and vanishing, while done well for its time isn't up to par.
I love onward
clever sky
Exactly.
clever sky
Like Serious Sam FE is a lot more fun for me in VR than it was ever on the desktop.
mighty carbon
Blasphemy!
clever sky
Heh 😛
clever sky
Well, I thought it was overrated pap 😛
Not unlike Max payne
Although very different games.
Game I kinda wish I got into back in its prime though was Deus Ex.
mighty carbon
That one was good too, but only the first part
clever sky
Can't get into now with those '97 graphics (or even subsequent mods that improve it to... 2002 level)
tired tree
shadow of the colossus / thief in VR, where these at. gimmie
mighty carbon
Dishonored in VR... too bad it's under Zenimax
clever sky
Shadow of the colossus... oh man... that'd be next level with Freedom locomotion 😛
Hahaha. Or whatever better than sliding locomotion with good climbing functionality.
clever sky
Well, that's just a big opportunity for smaller players really.
tired tree
whats funny is that it would be EASIER to adapt a AAA to VR with non teleport movement
clever sky
Yeah. So ironically smaller games will feature expected AAA mechanics faster than AAA games due to greater willingness to experiment.
Of course, it also ends up that a lot of smaller devs contribute to shit shows.
As a result of that experimentation.
But then... this is the environment Valve has created with their VR release leniency.
mighty carbon
So ultimately Rift will be the king of mass market :)
mighty carbon
Because Vive will be plagued with dorky indie experiments and Rift will have AAA VR titles
clever sky
Haha... Well, the Rift does have a more curated store. But the hardware is simply inferior sadly.
Mainly the tracking. It sucks - I wanted parity.
zinc rose
as a player and a dev and an owner of both rift and vive.. id choose the vive. simply for its tracking. its far better and smoother. ive said it before it could be tied to usb reliability which calls the mobo into question of the rig its used on. But vives lighthouses dont care what USB card you have. so it wins for now. touch controllers are smaller and lighter but the overall setup isnt better at all. if the game requires turning around... the oculus setup sufffers a lot
clever sky
But at this point, it really does seem like larger (or even moderate) room scale tracking is not reliable for many users.
Also, while the Vive has a higher noise ratio for competent VR experiences... it also has a much larger content base period. You can find more high quality polished titles on the Vive - even if most of the most funded titles are been made on the Rift right now.
Because most funded title and high quality title aren't one and the same thing.
mighty carbon
High quality on Vive? What titles are those?
zinc rose
oculus is also putting funding into a lot of titles.. and specifically avoiding indies unless its a "breakthrough" (in their eyes) idea. Vive seems to not care so much about funding titles but is more focused on getting their store up and running with whatever...
tired tree
oculus isn't taking mass market by the way, PSVR will remain above it
and they need to clear up their current bad blood soon
zinc rose
consoles will always remain above it due to ease of access
have any of you tried PSVR yet?
tired tree
its better than gearVR from what friends say, thats about it
zinc rose
i know it uses the old PSEye stuff.. i have 6 of those ps move controllers and liek 3 eye cameras kicking around
tired tree
the tracking tech is oldddd
zinc rose
the PS move system was COOOL at the time but soooooo not good
theres a game called FIGHT! lights out
such a GREAT concept. got horrible reviews..
clever sky
Damn PS Move holding PSVR back big time 😛
zinc rose
suffered from being ahead of its time
tired tree
Do the move controllers even use an IMU?
zinc rose
the tracking was so goddamn awful.. but the game itself was fun as hell and i lost a lottta calories playing it
half of those calories were me doubling up on punches cuz it didnt track right
mighty carbon
I know for a fact PSVR won't be popular in Russia :)
zinc rose
the camera tracking on move was horrible
mighty carbon
(It's a traditionally PC country that cares for high fidelity visuals)
zinc rose
you could grab the sun from the sky on a bright summers day and the damn thing still said there wasnt enuff light to track you properly
tired tree
ah it does have an IMU, so it is just correcting drift with the camera
honestly suprised then that it isn't better
zinc rose
it worked well enough for arcade shooters like res evil rail games. but not well enogh for real time
im curious how the psvr stuff holds up
tired tree
it didn't work off of IR like wiitmotes, so yeah there would be a lot of overexposure issues
zinc rose
PS in general is not indie friendly at all either. its a nightmare to put something through their process and its expensive af
tired tree
interested in the next gen lighthouse stations, single barrel low vibration, should be less drift and jitter and be less prone to damage.
zinc rose
have you damaged your lighthouses at all?
tired tree
no, but you can't really touch them while on
zinc rose
mine have been good. the vibration is real though
tired tree
i am so scared for the day some kid throws the controllers into a lighthouse
clever sky
You guys bring your VR gear around?
zinc rose
mine are up and out of reach. so .. i had one on a tripod ontop of my Bass for the surround system.. that didnt last long lol
zinc rose
ah
clever sky
Can you touch the roof with the controller without jumping? 😛
zinc rose
mine are like 10 feet up on the ceiling
tired tree
yes
zinc rose
basemetn as well but ... only half the basement is underground here the back half is level withoutside so the ceilings are high
clever sky
That sucks. Need the ceiling chaperone!
tired tree
making climbing was...rough, until I learned to not get too into it
clever sky
Haha... yeah, I've been lucky here. 3.3m ceiling height.
zinc rose
one of my friends punched my TV in the previous location.. put a dent in the tv frame.. but otherwise all still works. heh
clever sky
Old house. Bad everything else, but great ceiling height.
tired tree
i took apart my controllers awhile back due to the touchpad getting unresponsive
but they have been solid
clever sky
Oh man... that touchpad is the worst design from a reliability standpoint.
zinc rose
mine have worked great except my vibration has weakend significantly in one.. and im not sure but i think the touchpad buttons... are dying
tired tree
the touchpad buttons "die" because its a stupid little buffer pad underneath
zinc rose
the touchpad movement has been good. but the buttons
tired tree
and it can shift
clever sky
I'm pretty sure that at some point that little rubber dome is just going to slip out from under every touchpad.
Especially if you have to hold the touchpad down and move your thumb around at the same time.
tired tree
but in my case it was that the case was a little popped due to impact, putting it back together pfixed it
zinc rose
the oculus touch controllers joysticks are good. better than touchpad..
clever sky
Yeah. For sure. Sticks over pad for movement any day of the week.
tired tree
i prefere pad, but not these pads
zinc rose
i also have issues since day 1.. with the buttons
clever sky
Shame, because the touchpads are kinda nice and versatile in their own right.
zinc rose
like pressing them near the edges outside
does nithing
pressing them near the centre
works 100%
tired tree
its worse if your finger tips are "sanded" or cut, they don't register location at all
zinc rose
i thought my coding was messed.. but its not.. i went thru the "newer" vive tutorial and now they have a press button blow up balloon thing
and the buttons they show are like on a diagonal
not up down left right.. but top left.. top right. etc.
which is confusing.. but either case edges never work.
which is frustrating.. esp if you release a game and try to explain to customers that the buttons do stuff.. but.. the hardware needs to be pressed "this way"
tired tree
you can map to a diag as well if you want
map the buttons in general to an event, and pull the touch location for where / what button it was
zinc rose
i do have it mapped to events but well a face button is a face button right
like i said. it works 100% of the time if you pressit near the centre of the pad and not the edges.. up down left and right. im conditioned though
tired tree
nah, i meant use all buttons to fire the same event, then remap the face with the touch coordinates
clever sky
The touch events are more reliable right?
They don't have the edge detection issue that the pressing has?
clever sky
Yeah. I've started shifting my functionality from press and hold to press and keep thumb touching.
zinc rose
even detects centre to edge quite well in terms of speeidng up and slowing movement
clever sky
Because I really super hate touch to move
But press and hold to move is problematic because of the design of the touchpad.
zinc rose
teh oculus joy sticks are great for that too... you lose the buttons the touchpad offers.. but ive adapted my project to both oculus and vive .. theres enough buttons on both to do the same things
clever sky
Yeah.
Touch to move is just the devil's piss. :P
Best way to cause inadvertant vection for novice users, or users not use to touch to move.
Because the touchpad is just a big nice resting spot for the thumb.
And activating locomotion when you're just resting your thumb is as good as moving the camera randomly.
mighty carbon
When I get Rift I'll be the judge of tracking ;)
zinc rose
its true... my current project is one of the first to offer fre range movement in VR commercially and ive had feedback like that. i actually added full teleport support like 4 months ago to allow those uncomfortable with it to play.
zinc rose
but once you adapt to the controls.. its pretty much like playing on a PS4 or Xbox control. even witht he touchpad
ZombVR
zinc rose
the "head" fucntions as the "right joystick" and the left stick functions as the movement... so its basically like any fps style movement
zinc rose
i think mine is still the only zombie shooter that lets you move around freely
tired tree
think onward got that part right, even though the hover is wrong imo
clever sky
Not a fan of head vector movement either.
Actually, I hate it. I like to look around while moving around.
And head vector as forward makes it really hard.
wicked oak
@zinc rose Arizona Sunshine
has dash, teleport, smooth movement, and zombies, and zombie survival, and campaign
clever sky
True.
zinc rose
wehn i looked at that when i released. im pretty sure it only had teleport.. i could be wrong tho
wicked oak
not many players end up using the smoth movement
zinc rose
i never actually palyed it to be honest
tired tree
dunno about that blanco
clever sky
Yeah. Smooth movement players will fuck your shit up if you don't cater to them.
tired tree
considering how well smooth movement games like onward do
clever sky
They even came into my locomotion thread and started demanding smooth locomotion.
wicked oak
they are incredibly rabid
clever sky
I'm like motherfuckers, you know I'm trying to push VR locomotion beyond smooth locomotion right?
zinc rose
i got thick skin.. i stand true tot he movement in my game. personally i LOVE it. i couldnt imagine VR any other way
tired tree
I don't agree that swing / run in place is better
zinc rose
i added teleport... as an option. but i could never play a game like that with teleport
clever sky
Yeah. I don't actually mind smooth locomotion. But I'm with Chet - using smooth locomotion as some sort of default will just lead to a smaller VR industry.
mighty carbon
I can't stand smooth locomotion
clever sky
Sure you cater to people that prefer more immersion that teleportation.
But you also drive away people that are motion sick prone.
tired tree
i thought you only had gear motor
clever sky
You can get smooth locomotion in Gear
tired tree
yeah smooth has sickness issues with some
mighty carbon
There is no more immersion to smooth locomotion
tired tree
gear smooth would be head based
clever sky
Not with some. With a lot of people.
tired tree
I feel less immersed with arm swing and run though
as I expect to move as I am
dunno
like I said its preference, and more options is better
clever sky
I think it's a matter of learning TBH.
zinc rose
i aimed for recreateing the console controller based set up.. or the WASD movement set up...
clever sky
You have to unlearn some of the natural movement expectations, and then learn in-place movement. Takes a bit of time. Not a huge amount.
tired tree
I miss back when I had motion sickness honestly, I don't get that stomach drop when falling anymore
zinc rose
i added teleport as a secondary option but its not default. if that limits the customer base. then ok. lol
mighty carbon
Nah, I've been trying smooth locomotion for a long time and still get sick
clever sky
Problem with the current teleportation/smooth motion dichotomy is that they're just too dissimilar.
Difficult to balance a game seriously when catering to both ends of the spectrum.
zinc rose
Oculus is EXTREMELY reluctant to fund anything NOT using teleport at the moment
fyi. if anyone is heading in that direction
tired tree
yeah smooth / run / bob are easy to balance around each other compared to teleport
problem is smooth will tend to have upper hand in gunplay situations
clever sky
Yeah. Well, I'm trying to get dash/blink step thrown in that mix too.
Yeah... you have to futz around with recoil to get balance happening.
But that's ok.
tired tree
i'm surprised more smooth games haven't implemented run / bob, once you have the smooth movement those are easy to create
clever sky
It just hasn't been done well previously.
zinc rose
what do you mean by run/bob?
tired tree
run = armswing shorter, bob = running in place
clever sky
I've updated it recently. Walking portion much more sensitive now.
There's a calibration system that better caters to individual movement styles.
clever sky
Because it turns out... there's a lot of different ways for people to walk
And the amount of head motiion they exhibit has a wide degree of variability.
tired tree
ah, makes sense there
clever sky
I slow down the movement when you're 'crouching'.
zinc rose
what game is yours?
tired tree
the run / bob is simple velocity mapping to motion, i understand calibrating multitude to their preferences though
clever sky
But the initial release also had a bug that wasn't retrieving the calibrated height properly. I think that was contributing to complaints about walking speed.
Mine? I'm working on the 'Freedom Locomotion System'
zinc rose
i donno about you .. but its a bit of a gamble as to how far ill be off the ground every time i put the headset on. heh..
clever sky
Well, if there's a 10cm variance you might be in trouble, but otherwise you should be ok 😃
zinc rose
lol.. im already happy about this since the huge robot has a huge robot sign on his chest
tired tree
the ground calibration can be "fixed" by putting controllers near headset and covering both for a second and then uncove3ring them
the new light house stations should help with the over time drift too
tired tree
yes
clever sky
That's a good trick to know.
tired tree
so you don't have to remap the room
clever sky
Happens most often when I launch Unreal before SteamVR
tired tree
because my controllers are never on the ground when i start up steamvr
clever sky
Ah ok.
zinc rose
are you referring to drift as when teh controllers start floating away from u in the game?
zinc rose
yea ok. cuz i only get that when i move out of the space which makes sense
what is "drift" then as you're referring to?
clever sky
Where the ground plane in VR doesn't match up with the physical ground plane.
At least in this context.
zinc rose
so when you touch your feet. your hand goes through the "ground" ?
clever sky
Or sometimes you can't touch the VR ground because you're floating above it 😛
@tired tree Planning on building any games with your stuff?
zinc rose
ah.. yeah. thats what i meant when i said its a gamble when i put the headset on if im gonna be the same height as before
clever sky
Ah yeah 😃 happens to me too.
tired tree
i just like to keep hobbies
clever sky
Good stuff 😃
tired tree
lol, gamedev jobs suck more unless you are self employed
zinc rose
id say its more like two full time jobs rolled into one title
clever sky
Yeah. Not a fan of what I've read about from industry insiders.
Don't have direct experience myself though.
tired tree
the amount of self serving egotistic studio CEO's i've met.....
clever sky
Actually not super interested in making games for a living - more interested in building out VR tech.
zinc rose
i have heard some horror stories at EA around "slave labor" hours .. and yet they still make crap like NHL ... :/
tired tree
you don't get good results from upset employees
and firms that treat employees like that tend to be in it for the money, not the creation
zinc rose
i prefer making games to the tech "overall". Though i spend a great deal of time finding the "cheapest" way to do normally heavy things in games.
not even just making games.. more or less just the creativity side of things. writing etc.
tired tree
dunno, i spent 9 months making a voxel plugin for the engine, got it about perfect, and then sat on it because the challenge was what I was after. Pretty sure tech is the only thing I enjoy
but i come from the old school game mod/hack scene
clever sky
Fair enough 😃 I respect that.
I'm just trying to build something I believe in! A bit idealistic, but if VR is a vehicle for massive change in the future.
Because it's the 'next and last computing paradigm'...
Then the way we do fundamental interactions in VR is kinda important! And an important problem to solve well earlier.
tired tree
I have to implement armswing / running in place now zap, just to finish out the plugin. Its so simple to add to it but most couldn't even figure out climbing which is why I had to add that :*(...
clever sky
Haha... ah well 😃 go for it. I wanna play more running in place games as well.
clever sky
Hehe 😃
tired tree
You know, I take that back, climbing is easy to implement in single player. I'm glad I ended up doing it myself to make it work correctly in multiplayer
I probably should have done it earlier
clever sky
It's a nice feature.
Actually the best use of it IMO is very simply that it allows you to navigate past objects that are above the step height easily.
zinc rose
most things in MP are not straightforward esp in VR.
clever sky
I've always hated the idea that waist or even chest high boxes were some sort of impassable barrier of doom!
tired tree
yeah
still have a bit of a "step" pulling yourself onto it
but climbing is easy way around the too tall issue
I'd like to see more VR game play with player scale, like Alice In Wonderland
could be trippy and fun
clever sky
Ah yeah. Definetly works well with the Simple assets.
mighty carbon
making games is hard, especially alone and in spare time 😦
clever sky
and lego like models that retain visual clarity at all size/distance ranges.
@mighty carbon Oh well. Someone's gotta give up their lives for the amusement of others. Apparently us game devs are the modern day gladiators.
zinc rose
except gladiators were cheered back then.. nowadays its mostly hate if your game isnt "triple A" and 10 times better than major studios 😛
clever sky
Haha... nah man, we're like the small town provincial gladiators where 10 guys turn up to watch and they're all hecklers.
zinc rose
oh. well then ya of course. that fits
clever sky
Hehehe 😄
zinc rose
far from russle crowe gladiator
clever sky
Wonder what killing Commodus would be equivalent to.
mighty carbon
entitled gamers
clever sky
God, I hope VR goes way beyond the gaming industry. It'd be depressing if VR was just seen as a 'toy' in the years to come.
zinc rose
its all about perception really..... if peopel see "3d graphics. and something that looks decent in terms of assets, store bought or self made is irrelevant. they expect an 80 hour campaign, open workd and "rpg" elements. regardless of what the genre is.. if the game is preseneted as pixel art.. they are a little more lenient.. probably because the "entitleds" dont even look at it.
tired tree
VR is already kind of bigger outside of games
archi, medical, industry, they are all using it already
clever sky
@tired tree Well, they're certainly excited about it. But the lions share of development effort is still focused on gaming.
as is the general awareness of the tech in relation to.
tired tree
don't know about that, been contacted by a lot of devs outside of gaming
its just not advertised
its industry
clever sky
True.
zinc rose
it would be adapted widely if not for the cost of the hardware
tired tree
thats better for industry though, the cost is nothing to them
zinc rose
its the reason consoels will dominate in VR if they keep at it.. because you can get the setup for relatively sheap and not have to have a PC to support it
well it depends
tired tree
there is a chinese firm working with body mappings in VR that sent me a message, a $900 headset is nothing to a medical firm
zinc rose
as arestauranteur or a real estate if i want ot ofer VR tours of property or establishments anyone wiht a vr set could check it out
tired tree
thats why HTC is doubling down on an industry version of the headset with dedicated support
clever sky
@tired tree Mainly I'm thinking that it's really the gaming side that's helping to push forward VR at this point though. Industry is great - but they're not really going to be responsible for pushing forward VR development as a whole for a while. At least that's what it feels like.
Maybe it's like an iceberg tho - and there's just a lot of action happening that's not visible to most people.
tired tree
they wouldn't push movement no, but they would push imaging and interaction
zinc rose
the quicker money might be in larger industries like medical and stuff. or even nasa. but the masses are regular people and they can explore things like never before if they have access
clever sky
So going out and showing off VR to various businesses is a good way to establish business at this point you think?
zinc rose
i initially thought of a first project as more of a "police simulator". to help train officers to react in situations. simulating different races etc in pull overs and stuff.
tired tree
its hard to get into medical or construction or space tech, but the Archi firms looking for vr help are many
like tooooon
s
clever sky
Cool cool.
Well that'll be my first port of call.
And will pimp my movement system with it too 😄
clever sky
Yeah exactly.
tired tree
though point and click to "sweep" to a location would probably be used more
clever sky
in place locomotion much better for sense of scale than teleportation.
tired tree
so your dash or trans world during movement
clever sky
Yeah. Any one of those.
tired tree
for archi, a blueprint overlay of the area while moving that is slightly transparent would probably be best imo'
clever sky
Just so easy to lose a sense of scale when teleporting around.
tired tree
don't think swing / jog is soemthing that they would want
but dash / sweep
with waypoints for hallways, free form movement for rooms
clever sky
It'd be a useful option.
mighty carbon
where do you look for gigs for ArchViz ?
tired tree
dunno, they all contacted me and I told them to ask other people
but while not looking I got a few dozen offers
clever sky
Haha... 😛 I'm just going to go knock on doors myself.
mighty carbon
It just sounds like everything is in CA, as I have not heard about VR being in demand in Southwest TX
tired tree
so you should be fine if you put yourself out there
mighty carbon
I guess I'd literally need to go door to door with architectural firms
tired tree
there are a lot of tricks that can be done in small areas to up perf in vr too
anything that is a hot buzz for an industry will be looked into, for archi VR, IS the hot new thing
door to door demos are great
but you'd want your name out thereas well
clever sky
Yeah. Gotta work it from both ends.
mighty carbon
meaning ?
I am sure none of those older guys know what VR is or play games/experiences
clever sky
Establish a bit of cred for yourself - so you're not just a random kook?
tired tree
lol
archi hires a lot of young salesmen
and the "older" generation grew up with VR in movies unless they are geriatrics
clever sky
Yeah. Surprisingly VR is quite well received by general public.
At least compared to gamers. Who can be overly skeptical about it.
Gamers man. Some of them are the most stuck in the mud types you'll ever find!
zinc rose
some left my game a bad review and said .... "when I ran out of bullets... I had to reload!!" like it was a bad thing... people are people
someone*
clever sky
Like... the idea of putting on a headset... and been transported to a different world... that's something most people just 'get'. I talked to my 75 year old uncle about it, and he was like... "yeah, that's probably the only way I'll ever see a lot of those touristy destinations! It'll be nearly as good as going in person."
mighty carbon
lol.. I wonder if someone would reload for him in real-life
zinc rose
.... i added an "auto reload" function that you can turn on in options rolley eyes
clever sky
MUM! WHERE'S MY AUTORELOAD?!!
tired tree
To be fair, it depends on how quick / easy the reloading is implemented since you made a zombie game
clever sky
/typicalgamer
mighty carbon
I'd love to re-create destinations in VR or/and do some edu apps/experiences... The only question is who is going to fund all that ?
tired tree
if reloading takes 10 seconds of fumbling in a zombie game I would be upset
wintry escarp
hmmmm rift got a £50 price cut
zinc rose
its really simple (ONCE YOU GET USED TO IT) its VR. i didnt want a shake the controller an dreload.. or press a button and reload.. thats not using the tech right
it takes less than 2 sec lol
clever sky
MordenTral is right though. H3VR reload mechanics are not useful for anything but gun porn.
tired tree
dunno, H3VR would be a good VR arma, if he made the clips not stuck constantly
zinc rose
when you press the side button.. the clip falls out and hangs in air.. use your other hand to press push it back in... simple as that
tired tree
its harder to reload in that than IRL
clever sky
the reload mechanic I most enjoy is found in Raw Data. Slamming motion down to reload.
So so satisfying.
mighty carbon
@wintry escarp still $599 on their store
clever sky
@zinc rose yeah sounds pretty easy to use.
zinc rose
i made mine as close to real life as possible while staying simple... eject clip > push clip in
tired tree
oculus trying to keep good will after bad patches...
clever sky
Probably similar to how I'd do it myself TBH.
mighty carbon
I wonder if it's better to buy directly or from amazon
tired tree
amazon would likely arrive faster and be cheaper shipping, the support would be through oculus still
don't really see a downside
zinc rose
thats the reload portion. its an OLD video tho.. from beta. but ya. simple to relaod. but ppl still complained it wasn't auto
clever sky
@tired tree You'd have to tweak H3VR gun mechanics a lot for Arma3 style gameplay. Just make everything a lot more lenient to account for the lacking tactile feedback.
tired tree
yeah you don't get the push back on the held clip, so you can't adjust it
it should auto orient a bit when within a buffer zone
would be that hard to fix up
n'ty
clever sky
Yeah.
@zinc rose Ah ok. Yeah, it's easy when you know what's going on. But the floating in the air thing is a little unintuitive (because people aren't expecting the old clip to be the new clip as well).
zinc rose
yes i know. so i explained it in the forums and put up a text version and made a video .. lol .. but ppl with less than 10 mins of gameplay time.. > bad review shrugs
tired tree
what was with the inventory
did they guns fly around to your back
its hard to make that out in a video
zinc rose
there are holsters
on the left and right arm
you can put whatever items you have in hands on your holsters for storage
two on your "back" as well.. more like holstering a sowrd above your shoulder for the back ones
mighty carbon
@tired tree are you in US ?
tired tree
yes
mighty carbon
sturdy coral
Anyone try out VRWorks 4.14 yet with the forward renderer?
tired tree
ah nice, its out
sturdy coral
I'm going to build it sometime later today
raven halo
I'm having issues recently with gearvr
where the left eye is sort of lagging
or it has some sort of strange delay
I have 2 samsung s7 here
my build works totally fine in one of them that has not been connected to wifi in a week
the other one was updated like maybe 2 days ago? the oculus software I mean. And since then the issue has popped up
has anyone else noticed this?
mighty carbon
finally ... I wish Netflix did this already :/
Oculus popped several updates in the past few days.. Could have very well borked something
Since you are developer, there is bug submission form on the website
report it to them
@raven halo
^^
tawdry dragon
Had an Oculus driver crash on me today when doing a VR preview. Unreal bugged out and corrupted the project for some shitty reason
thank god for Git
raven halo
@mighty carbon do you mean the forums? or is there a proper place to submit bugs I have missed? o_O
tawdry dragon
whats up with Crytek doing so much VR atm
Wasn't there a huge scandal about them not paying wages etc?
tawdry dragon
Still. they're not really doing anything but VR right now?
raven halo
thanks motorstep!
mighty carbon
np
mighty carbon
interesting
although a nasty article
"The Oculus Rift is a particularly niche product: the $599 headset requires $199 Touch controllers to unlock its full potential, and it only runs on high-end PCs."
as if Vive any different
tawdry dragon
Gonna try and do a build soon 😃 Very excited to see if I can get it working
so slow though 😦
wintry escarp
vr wont take off until its half the price it currently is
tawdry dragon
for consumers? probably not, but the industries are starting to notice it
We just send specs to one of our client today for 5 computers they need. They didn't care if the PCs are each $2.000
mighty carbon
arch viz ?
wintry escarp
its the sort of shit Samsung should aim for
mighty carbon
@wintry escarp even if VR goes down in price, PC is still prices.. It's just what it is. I remember when RivaTNT just came out, it was out of reach for me and only kids with rich parents were playing Quake 2 with colored lights (and Quake 3).
wintry escarp
create s8+ , 90hz and hdmi in so it can be used on desktop vr
mighty carbon
Intel will have Project Alloy by the end of 2017
and if it costs as much as Hololens, then it's no different from desktop VR (less powerful too)
wintry escarp
i'd pay $50 more for an s8 that could be run from desktop
mighty carbon
@tawdry dragon how do you find those? Or is it company's clients ?
tawdry dragon
company clients
mighty carbon
@wintry escarp find a time machine, fast forward...
tawdry dragon
2½ years ago I did an DK2 experience for MHI Vestas, one of the biggest windmill manufacturers in the world. They still use that for their trade fares and it's still "The talk of the Show"
Then I switched job and we're just starting now to steer our clients towards VR 😃
One of my old colleagues are actually still supporting that UE4 experience. He's going to Tokyo next week to help them set it up again 😃
mighty carbon
got a video of those windmills?
tawdry dragon
The Case Story they did afterwards
it was pretty cool. They got a custom build platform for the 8 DK2's with a railing that mimics the one on an offshore windmill. Then they have crew members put people into a safety harness before they got the HMD on
mighty carbon
cool
wintry escarp
nice rain on screen effect
mighty carbon
So basically people are just there, next to windmill? No breaking it apart and showing insides?
tawdry dragon
On top of the windmill
and then from a service ship
so people could experience the worlds largest offshore windmill
wintry escarp
then lightning hits the crane and it collapses?
mighty carbon
(I am just thinking what kind of demo I could do for Gear VR to be able to point people to it when claiming I can do non-gaming VR stuff )
tawdry dragon
The rain effect they added in post @wintry escarp 😦
It was made after I switched jobs, so I had no say in it 😃
Well, it would be cool, but industrial clients dont like to see their stuff getting ruined. So no explosions, no nothing 😦
mighty carbon
hah
so, how did you get to do that stuff? I mean, besides gaming I am looking for stuff to do in VR and earn decent buck from it.
not sure where to start though
tawdry dragon
Well, it wasnt just me, but a team effort. I did nearly all the UE4 work. But the project started because we were pushing our sales team to try and see if VR was something our clients was interested in, and luckily that client needed something spectacular for their next trade conference
mighty carbon
got it
tawdry dragon
that and they had a very large budget
😃
@mighty carbon word of advice, if you're gone that route, ally yourself with a 3d artist that knows how to optimize for real time art. Production step files easily run in 10's of million triangles without a problem 😃
mighty carbon
I am actually a 3D artist / animator 😃
but since finding programmer is a royal pita, I just decided to learn BP to be able to do everything myself (I am not a programmer per se, but I can design and implement game systems, given enough time and docs) 😉
tawdry dragon
Seems like you are on the same path as me then 😃
mighty carbon
do you do 3D art too ?
tawdry dragon
3d artist by trade 😃
mighty carbon
ah, cool
Reading reddit, I still don't get why people expect to see VR in the mainstream while shitting on Oculus when given opportunity
the only reason Vive is ahead in numbers is due to enterprise users
anyone I talk to (non-VR devs, average Joes) heard of Gear VR and Oculus, PSVR, but never heard of Vive
what's your take on this situation ?
restive blade
Dev's or Pro-sumers prefer the Vive over the Oculus
The general public knows Oculus
tawdry dragon
I like the Oculus more than the Vive 😦
restive blade
I understand why you might.. each has pluses and negatives
tawdry dragon
I really like the lighter HMD and the controllers. I really do hate that you need 3 cameras for a proper setup and a ton of USB 3 ports to drive it all
The Vive is a bit more hassle free when setting it up
restive blade
base setup for Rift is easer... but for full tracking it's less then Vive.. kinda funny
harder*
not less
tawdry dragon
But the build quality of the Oculus also seems nicer. Cant wait for hardware gen 2.0
restive blade
it's less durable however
and the quality of the screens and lens... hmmm
but I digress
I've been using both for 6 months fulltime now... both suck
tawdry dragon
Hmm, I cant really see a difference when using the Vive and Oculus - might be because the stuff I do don't have enough detail 😉
Hmm, what do you dislike about them?
restive blade
almost everything haha
tawdry dragon
Damn... thats a lot of things you dont like then 😄
tawdry dragon
Trippy 😄
restive blade
rather
mighty carbon
well, the point here is that failed/dead Oculus is bad for VR industry
these people on Reddit (and journalists) don't see it, and keep pouring dirt on Oculus with every given opportunity
restive blade
the problem with VR AT the moment... is that the overall quality is far behind what people get in a 200 doller phone... and that bugs them no end
mighty carbon
at some point the achieved effect will be irreversible and at the end of the day if VR fails for mass market, everyone will just shrug and say "oh well, we told you VR was the same as 3D TV" without acknowledging their contribution to demise of mass market VR
restive blade
havem ?
mighty carbon
@restive blade I take it you haven't tried Cardboard and Gear VR ?
mighty carbon
then you are full of shit
tawdry dragon
😄
restive blade
how am I full of shit motorsep ?
mighty carbon
Cardboard is such a crappy experience.. That's what $200 phone gives - vomit inducing junk
restive blade
you are totally missing the point
like.. holy crap
I AM not comparing different VR experiances here
mighty carbon
Gear VR is x1000 better, but without positional tracking and motion contollers. That's what $800 phone gives you. $200 phone can not, physically, provide that experience
restive blade
perhaps using a phone was a bad exhample
tawdry dragon
I will indulge Altermind in what he is saying. Many of our clients dont like the Vive/Oculus because its a very expensive rig to get running. Compared to a phone displaying pre-rendered images displayed in a gearVR 😃
restive blade
THE fact you can use a phone for VR is besides the point
mighty carbon
and then there is desktop VR, with positional tracking, motion controllers and mighty power of PC and desktop GPU
mighty carbon
how the f#ck can you say that desktop VR == $200 Cardboard VR beats me.. That's why I say you are full of shit!
mighty carbon
I can't forget the phone example.. You etched it in my memory !!! 🙀 😛
mighty carbon
ok, just did
mighty carbon
heh, I know
restive blade
the problem is now everyone is walking around with insanely high quality displays on just about everything.. and have forgotten what OLD CRT tv's were like
This is like going back to the days of first gen sony trinatrons
mighty carbon
@restive blade slaps @mighty carbon around with a large trout
or something like that
mighty carbon
gotta leave work and go grocery shopping... there go my VR money 🙄
hold that thought, I will be back
deft badge
3D Text(editable) looks amazeballs in VR
sturdy coral
@pearl tangle it has become more and more coupled with some stuff for position replication
wintry escarp
slaps jjjams with a blue whale....'amazeballs' indeed
deft badge
thanks man
sturdy coral
@deft badge is that a marketplace thing?
deft badge
Not yet. Are you interested?
sturdy coral
@deft badge possibly, it looks cool but I don't have a full use in mind for it yet other than title stuff, which wouldn't need to be dynamic I guess
wintry escarp
motorsep is there a screenshot anywhere showing recommended HUD positions in gearvr?
real needle
@deft badge Looks nice, I did something similar: https://gyazo.com/f2380bbd0b952ea17ea27d46e867d711
wintry escarp
or do you just keep moving and testing
real needle
Mine is a 3d dynamic menu system
wintry escarp
I thought my text was onscreen but it was way off in vr
deft badge
@real needle Sweet. 😃 Looks great in the headset hey?