Also don't count on that note 8 information being accurate btw. Just a hint
#virtual-reality
pearl tangle
mighty carbon
ouch
I wonder when we will hear the verdict
good thing Samsung has been working on Gear VR and not Fb/Oculus
mighty carbon
why so much hate?
I pro-Oculus, but I don't want for Fb to destroy Zeni if Zeni loses the case
(I want to play idSoftware games 😃 )
full junco
@mighty carbon it's not hate, zenimax is just right
and Facebook has enough money
redistributing money Facebook has is always a good idea 😃
mighty carbon
read the article
none of the code for Rift/GearVR was from Zenimax
(e.g. from D3BFG or Rage VR)
and, Zenimax is not right
they sue every single dev if it smells like money
full junco
why do you like Facebook so much?
mighty carbon
they shut down Doom RTS project, sued Notch for using "scrolls" in the title, etc. etc.
I like Oculus
I don't like Fb per se, but I don't hate it either
full junco
oculus basically equals Facebook now
mighty carbon
lol, in your book maybe
If there is Devil in game industry, it's Zenimax
(they have always been, even before VR)
pearl tangle
zenimax is a bit like apple with the sueing but yeah pretty sure they have a decently solid case against Oculus. It's quite likely that anything Carmack worked on while employed by them they own it. Hard to prove he did anything but if he provided consulting advise to Oculus then that was essentially Zenimax giving the consulting advise and not getting re-imbursed for it
snow raft
I think Zenimaxs argument is that Facebook wouldnt have paid that if Oculus didnt steal their shit
I dont see much of a case on either side from this article tbh but I guess the Jurys out
Lets hope they dont seal the court documents when theyre done
wicked oak
this can be a huge blow to VR if zenimax wins
and zenimax just wants to cash in
Carmack wanted to make VR with zenimax
zenimax didnt want to
carmack left
now they are jelly and want some of the pie
and carmack part is not THAT big on the early oculus
palmer did the hardware, carmack only a bit of software, wich in fact was from his rocket company
the rest was oculus/valve cooperation
dusky moon
I have both Oculus and Vive connected to my pc and I want to set my default VR preview headset for UE4 to Vive but it always stick to Oculus ... any thoughts ?
clever sky
Wonder what will happen to Carmack if Zenimax wins.
Is he going to be 'quietly let go'? 😛
Be a bit short sighted from Facebook if they do. They've just paid a 4 billion sunk cost on hiring Carmack, whether or not they keep him 😛
wicked oak
i havent tried to plug the 2 headsets at once
i dont think its a good idea
what i do use is the vive extender box with oculus
and i allways keep the cameras connected
so switching oculus/vive is basically just swapping them at the extender box
dusk vigil
I've tried the HMDI switch thing but seem to have problems with it, usually have to sign out and sign back in for stuff to work
wicked oak
no he didnt
look at the lag when he moves the sword
that is a simple velocity attachment
wicked oak
in fact, probably not a velocity attachment, but a simple "add offset" that puts it on place
ah, but his sword has a massive collision
wich is why the enemy bounces
check how when blocking, the enemy bounces back
and every little touch kills him
check how the enemy doesnt block the player
i have that same stuff in my own DWVR
its still not on the public version becouse it wasnt ready
mighty carbon
I watched it again and I don't see any lag you are talking about
mighty carbon
it took 2 touches to kill AI 😉
wicked oak
the hard mode is to make the ENEMY block it
doing what he does is easy
making the enemy able to block your sword, now that is hard
he also didnt try to clip the sword into the ground
wich is another problem case
mighty carbon
well, clipping is not solvable unless you have tracked prop in your hand
mighty carbon
it's just likein any non-VR games - limitations that has to be accepted
wicked oak
so if you point it directly against a wall, it rotates to one side
let me draw you in paint what i mean
mighty carbon
if you do that, there is disconnect between what you see and what you feel
our hand doesn't rotate, but sword does - why? So, it's not a solution in VR
wicked oak
but thats WAY harder to solve
wich is why i still didnt get it to work
the idea is to make that to work against enemy shields
so your sword wont clip the enemy shield
mighty carbon
I know exactly what you mean - we did that in ToM, which worked very well. It's just not acceptable in VR.
wicked oak
and letting the sword pass everything is?
mighty carbon
yeah, it is
wicked oak
the video above is essentially the easiest way to make a sword
mighty carbon
because it doesn't create disconnect between physicality and visuals
wicked oak
blocking the enemies is SUPER easy
and he keeps the enemy so he is out of reach
but in my game you can teleport front and just slash him
if the enemy bounces back like that it can fall out of a ledge
(it has happened to me)
in his game it would hit the wall, or fall and die, but my case is much more complex
damn, PS4 build time is horrendous
instead of compiling code, it has to compile the whole engine
every time
im going to spend a while creating a psvr debug menu on a few debug maps for testing, so i can do more at once
mighty carbon
how is your game more complicated when it comes to sword fight ?
I think AI falling off the ledge when bounced back when blocked is cool
😃
dusk vigil
Storngly recommend people look at how Wii Sports swordfighting worked. Basically a blocked sword would be sent back a bit, and despite the disconnect between reality it worked really really well
wicked oak
my game is more complicated becouse its not 1 on 1
dusk vigil
Feels so much better than the free 'real' movement
wicked oak
and not just sworfight enemies in a corridor
also you have a shotgun on the other hand and things like that
mighty carbon
dusk vigil
I think the same concept would still apply. All the close combat games I've tried so far felt like shit, you can just wave sword about, or keep it stuck in an enemy
wicked oak
if i had no shiedls, i would have the same thing as the one in the video
ive tried to make velocity based damage
no good
it feels super bad
it also feels bad to hit an enemy twice to kill him
dusk vigil
Why wouldn't the same effect work? Hit a shield, sword gets knocked back
dusk vigil
Yeah, but it worked in Wii swordplay
mighty carbon
yeah, player's sword shouldn't get knocked back
wicked oak
thats why i have tried to rotate the sword
mighty carbon
AI should
mighty carbon
Wii isn't VR
wicked oak
ive tried to use a ghost hand/sword
when you disconect, a ghost hand/sword appears, wich is your real tracked one
the other one follows it
it also doesnt feel very good
mighty carbon
I'd just transition material into ghostly material when sword goes through solid
wicked oak
doesnt feel that good
im doing some things to the DWVR sword, one of the stuff im testing is to lower its damge, but make it knockback enemies
thats why i say that they can fall from the map XD
also, i made it fully deflect bullets like a lightsaber
and stop enemy attacks
like that video
still goes through everything tho
dusk vigil
I stand by my word : ) I guess I just have to make it myself to convince others
mighty carbon
it can not not go through everything, it's not Matrix after all 😉
dusk vigil
wicked oak
its a lot of fun, but backing the player like that is not an opition
and wii remote was absolute TRASH
its just a gyro and an accelerometer
this game uses the gyro for the sword angle, and the accelerometer to detect blows
you cant do a piercing attack for example
dusk vigil
As long as we don't have rooms with super robotic fully physical dummies simulating the environment for real... well, compromises will have to be made. It's one reason Superhot felt good to me, you have to slice through things, and they die with one hit, as do you
wicked oak
that one is like the one i have in my game, if swords didnt instakill
clever sky
Dash teleport with swords extended into enemy heads is my standard operating procedure 😛
wicked oak
but the htrowing is great
and the enemies have some small physical reaction
wich is great
clever sky
Like I'm doing a dashing charge 😄
clever sky
Makes me feel like a real cyber ninja.
Yeah. But I guess it's a ludo narrative dissonance thing.
They crafted this character in which that sort of play makes sense 😃
Wouldn't work for everyone (or even most sword play in general)
The other one where it works well with is Sairento
Because it's basically the same deal; you're a cyberninja with phenomenal dashing speed.
And the enemies are expendable hordes.
But it's not particularly suitable for where the enemies need some resistance.
I say that... but it's kinda fun to fight the big mechs in Raw Data too. Even if it does amount to repetitive slashing and poking at the head 😛
At least it requires some speed to your slicing to register as a hit, not just waggle waggle
wicked oak
it has a time limiter
i found that
it only hits once every X time, if the velocity is more than Y
clever sky
Ah. Well that's a simple but effective solution.
wicked oak
yes
clever sky
Essentially forces you to move your arm a certain distance
wicked oak
raw data does it great due to the local damage and hit reactions of the enemies
clever sky
If you try to cheat it, you'll find the issues.
But if you swing it like a sword, it doesn't occur.
Like, I get that some players are going to do what they can to exploit the game, because those are the rules by which they play 😛
But in VR, it really does help a little to pretend just a little! As long as the rule set helps to reinforce that pretending
After playing some enter the gungeon today. I wanna build this in VR with my locomotion system.
barren rose
But... wheres the navigation buttons :0
wicked oak
wow
60k people is massive
Sony was smart to pay for that morpheus integration
very smart
it makes PSVR get headlines everywhere
and spooky games on VR have been there since the DK1 days
wicked oak
less
in comparable timeframe
its also opt-in
so the real number is bigger
10% of players is insane for something like RE7
Elite dangerous also had a lot of people playing in VR, but more in the hundreds
mighty carbon
wicked oak
oh, also the "data not reliable cuz free weekend"
mighty carbon
not to mention 60k of PSVR headsets is ... very low number
mighty carbon
we'll see
wicked oak
its kind of the first truly AAA game for vr
mighty carbon
exactly
wicked oak
the ones that seem to adore PSVR its the japanese
mighty carbon
so numbers should be through the roof, considering how well PSVR sold (unless those were inflated numbers)
wicked oak
all around i see articles of "its sold out" and "queues to buy one"
wicked oak
but they only talk about japan, on the west we have good sales too
in america it sells really well
on spain is very meh
but its easily 10-20 times more than oculus/vive
NOBODY buys oculus/vive here
we are a bunch of casuals
cheap casuals also
mighty carbon
@wicked oak what about Gear VR in EU ?
wicked oak
i have no idea, but i know a lot of people that got a gearVR for free and dont even use it
mighty carbon
in Spain ?
wicked oak
yes
mighty carbon
well, teach them how 😃
mighty carbon
sounds like he is working on inside out tracking
don't tell me new Gear VR will do inside out tracking 🙀
dusk vigil
inside out is the key to happiness it seems
full junco
I consider it stupid to put place cameras somewhere that are directly controlled by facebook...
fresh laurel
Same @full junco
digital marlin
heh
Here's a question
Do you think Zuckerberg just went, "Man VR Is cool. I'll buy that." or did he actually think it was a good business move?
Because if I was Zucks, I'd be buying all sorts of insane shit.
raven halo
he knows facebook will die eventually, so he wants to get in on the next "platform"
whatsapp, instagram, oculus
I think he knows what he is doing
clever sky
Zuck's a smart guy, irrespective of whatever else you want to think of him.
He's a forward looking technologist that looks towards synergistic acquisitions
wicked oak
im with @raven halo
he knows facebook wont be here forever
so he tries to think forward
he bought oculus becouse its hella cool, and becouse he wants to make the metaverse
pearl tangle
hopefully facebook starts to dissapear by the end of this decade. im giving twitter till end of 2018 before they shut down
mighty carbon
why so much hate toward social media ?
zinc violet
curious about the oculus vs zenimax outcome
I think they said the verdict would be out 30th so in 2 days
mighty carbon
on Monday, yeah
mighty carbon
😦
granite jacinth
@wicked oak well, there's always DWBY2
still frost
So I was messing around with Unity VR and it seemed pretty nice and neat to use. Started to understand a few things quicker. So Im like ok I wan to look at shader stuff. cost 90 dollars.. I could buy nice beautiful assets in unreal market place.. or youtube and make my own
thats expensive man..
Id rather take the learning curve of VR in unreal
barren rose
If someones gonna spoof your rift driver
For b/w image...
There are sooooo many better ways to get your face <_<
noble crater
@still frost free version lets you write custom shaders no?
full junco
4 messages here in a whole day? wow, you were active! 😛
subtle island
Just managed to get the htc vive working with a uni project today by following guides, it's pretty cool seeing your work in proper full 3d dudes
real needle
@subtle island Welcome to the club!
full junco
I got runtime distance field generation and injection working, so I can now use DF stuff 😄
real needle
@full junco Isn't that pretty heavy? The process takes a while in editor
full junco
@real needle I'm not using ue4s generator, I wrote my own for my stuff
real needle
cool
full junco
I have not yet profiled, but I don't feel any difference to before, so its fast
real needle
Any new games one should check out? I'm not playing nearly enough
Includes EA updates that came w some good stuff
real needle
Yay! I got mixed reality in ue4 finished!
clever sky
Cool.
real needle
just already had a kinect and adapter
clever sky
Green screen needed?
real needle
yeah
clever sky
Ah. But you have some depth going on in there?
Or do you designate background/foreground?
real needle
yup casting a plane based on location and rotation of headset
anything in front is foreground
real needle
yeah i mean you can even walk through the table and it looks like you're walking through it
clever sky
Nice nice. Bloody great stuff.
real needle
it fails if you try to reach forward and put your hand through something, though
clever sky
So are you going to put this on the marketplace or something?
Would be a great way of showing off my stuff too 😃
Said everyone working on VR ever 😛
real needle
probs release the code and do a tutorial
i feel like it'll help the community more if its free
real needle
only to output rendertargets as the viewport
everything else is bp and material based
granite jacinth
@real needle Tutorials OP
real needle
haha will do
real needle
@real needle Awesome, how are you calibrating the location of the camera?
pearl tangle
definitely keen to have a play with your version of mixed reality @real needle looks like a pretty good solution to it, also curious on @real needle 's question
also as an FYI to everybody here, had a good chat with HTC on Friday about a few bits and pieces. Seems like the wireless solution does not like playing will with others. So can't use it for shared space multiplayer VR annoyingly
not yet anyway and not for the foreseeable future
full junco
I think mixed reality videos without moving camera are kinda lame
but of course moving camera setups are expensive to do right
real needle
@pearl tangle That makes it hard to use while developing in an area with several devs
@royal anchor if @real needle is using a steamvr tracker of some sort then all you need is a longer usb cable
you also need a second person to record :b
clever sky
@pearl tangle Dang @ solo wireless. I suspected something like that might happen, given that the other issue with the none 60GHz version of the wireless tech shown by other companies is that it was interferring with the standard wireless networks. So even though the 60GHz tech that TPCast are using has much less deflection... it's still LOS and would quickly saturate the usable bandwidth in the area.
But... does that mean it doesn't play well with just more wireless HMDs, or anything else in general, including the pucks and phones running VR apps?
pearl tangle
oh @real needle I also got some code off the UDN for adding on the steam trackers or extra controllers. apparently with a steam controller wireless connector you can use that to connect a third vive controller wirelessly
seems like that haven't figured out a modularisation method to be able to have them not interfere with each other. they are very different frequencies to wifi and whatnot so i don't see that causing any problems
interested to see what the intel version and stuff are like because the shared space multiplayer is my main reason for wanting wireless
real needle
@pearl tangle YES I've known that since dev days, can you share that?
@clever sky VRCade here in Seattle is running up to 4 in one space, but they're running at 60hz, and possibly lower res panels
clever sky
@real needle Is that 4 wireless TPCast units?
real needle
No, they have a proprietary solution
clever sky
Ah ok. Tried it out yet?
real needle
Yes, I've tried it over the past years actually
clever sky
Does it work well? Like flawless tracking/latency?
real needle
I can't get around the 60hz myself, but it's a good experience for people who haven't tried vive/rift
clever sky
Fair enough. Wonder how they're dealing with bandwidth saturation. Maybe a direct LOS aiming thing?
Or a multiplexing solution a bit like Artemis PCell...
real needle
I am also one out of many where their distortion shader makes me see cross eyed if I play for more than 15mins
clever sky
Dang :p sounds bad.
granite jacinth
Someone give me trackers
real needle
@granite jacinth We signed up already
granite jacinth
Yeah, us and a million other devs
clever sky
Wait. When did the signups open?
granite jacinth
days ago
good luck
They only have 1000 for devs
And max is 4
so... if devs have been asking for 4
that's only 250 devs
GGWP
clever sky
Is there a link around?
granite jacinth
clever sky
cool
clever sky
I got an ANZ link
australia new zealand. Wonder if they have preallocated to regions.
pearl tangle
you just put in the country when you pick. just goes to whichever team handles that country and they pick
granite jacinth
probably
pearl tangle
i got on the phone to HTC instead to get some extra help to push for them 😉
@real needle I will dig it up when im in the office tomorrow for you, new years public holiday here today
granite jacinth
Oh yeah
Chinese New Year
I want to see some dragons
What year is it anyway?
Boar?
real needle
@pearl tangle Thanks, I'll put it to use immediately, have a couple of controllers at the office
granite jacinth
Rooster
clever sky
Crap. You gotta upload more information.
That's gonna eat a bit of time preparing a doc or something 😛
full junco
distance field shadows are great
regular shadows 1.2 ms, DF shadows 0.34 ms
and this is still 4.15, recently there was a commit to master that made DF shadows twice as fast as before
real needle
India isn't an option in the list of countries! 😑
digital marlin
I wonder if there's many Aus / NZ devs getting about
clever sky
@digital marlin Aussie dev here. Where you from?
digital marlin
Brissy
Working out of a dev shop here - trying our best to get clients to fund our other bullshit.
digital marlin
Both actually
But really trying to justify doing some client stuff to help justify the game stuff
and then all the usual web dev / app dev bs.
clever sky
Fair call. Chasing the dream while paying the bills!
digital marlin
heh. More like trying to not strangle clients and doing something fun.
clever sky
Hehe
digital marlin
What about you, where you based?
clever sky
Perth
Solo dev.
Not sure where to go find other unreal devs 😛
Probably have to move to pursue this line of work.
digital marlin
Yeah Perth must be isolating.
Though there's very few actual 'devs' a lot of people who like to talk about VR but very little delivery.
clever sky
Well, not sure if I'm a dev dev yet, or just a talker 😛
digital marlin
Ah I mean more like marketers and shit.
clever sky
Yeah. You heard about it right? 😛
digital marlin
No, what'd you do?
clever sky
Hahah 😛
clever sky
Yay! So many VR devs here that our tiny meetup group shut down after a couple meetings D:
fresh laurel
awww
clever sky
I was like "Hey guys, I made an amazing VR locomotion thing!" and they were like "Awesome! Tell us all about it next time we meet!"
and we never met again.
clever sky
Nice. Well... I'll be updating it soon.
Just making a calibration function.
A lot of people complaining about walking not working as well as they'd like it to.
Because I have a floaty sort of walk that exaggerates HMD movement, and used it as the default.
But I've fixed that now, so that you can use a fairly stock standard walk on the spot and still get good motion out of it.
I just gotta finish up the menus.
Also fixed up a number of other things like climbing and some falling bugs.
digital marlin
So how does it work with a typical player VR pawn?
clever sky
It replaces it.
It's just a proof of concept right now though. Gonna work on refactoring the whole thing so it's easy to use for developers
digital marlin
C++ or BP?
clever sky
and offer it up via the marketplace.
It currently relies on a C++ plugin.
But I'm planning on moving it all to BP
the plugin for the collision handling.
digital marlin
Well let me know if you want a hand or a tester or something
clever sky
Yeah, that'd be great. 😃
Of course you're welcome to try it now, but I'll also let you know when I've updated it. Should be a couple days.
digital marlin
That's great. We're doing everything in BP at the moment but I'm keen to start shifting to C++
clever sky
Yeah, C++ can be useful. But I think BPs are probably more desired on the marketplace?
I could be wrong there.
digital marlin
oh yeah
clever sky
But if you're not doing marketplace stuff, C++ is useful, especially if you got a real programmer on the team 😃
digital marlin
I mean, I'd have to think so. BP equates to accessibility for not great devs (such as myself)
clever sky
Yeah. Plus the performance is good once the packaging is done converting it
Maybe not 100% native C++, but certainly not the 1000% native C++ that BP in their editor forms take 😛
clever sky
In what sense? When doing the walking in place stuff?
clever sky
Feels good. But if you're running longer distances, it's definetly exercise.
And you can try that for yourself running the mountain trail 😛
clever sky
Yeah absolutely.
Intended feature 😄
One of my big missions is to make gaming a free exercise thing.
clever sky
"he works out" -> "He must play a lot of VR games"
Not sure yet. I'm going to buy some of assets and compare the amount of work in those to the amount of work I've done.
digital marlin
I really want to see this really huge, fit guys who are actually massive nerds
clever sky
I'm figuring there's a pretty fair amount of value in what I'm offering though.
clever sky
Some people have mentioned they'd pay 100-150 for it, so that'll be my starting anchor for figuiring out pricing.
Although that'll mean I'll end up buying like a couple $100 assets to see what's in there 😛
clever sky
Eventually. Long term plan is to make it like... really full featured.
clever sky
So it becomes an awesome base to start building VR anything off.
digital marlin
Yeah. Then Steam just buys it 8D
clever sky
And then... then, I'll see who wants to partner up with me! muhaha.
Want to build a couple games that showcases the whole gaming as exercise ethos.
As opposed to gaming tech used for thinly disguised exercise.
digital marlin
I'd love to do a VR Double Dragon rip off
clever sky
Like Wii Sports 😛
digital marlin
heh
clever sky
I mean to be fair, the kinda stuff I'm talking about already exists, even in the VR space. Like Thrill of the Fight
and Sword Master, Audio Shield, Space Pirate, etc.
clever sky
But the common point among all those is that they're room scale high intensity games
That don't have variety or variation to what you can do.
digital marlin
Yeah.
Well my big bugbear is that most VR experiences are just these arcade games
clever sky
Yeah.
digital marlin
Nothing against them, but I'm looking to build something that requires a save file
clever sky
Short repetitive without much of the modern gaming hooks.
Yeah, exactly.
Actually, I've been playing a shit load of Enter the Gungeon in the last few days.
Dream would be to build a game like that in VR.
Bullet hell rogue like with lots and lots of running around 😄
digital marlin
I'll have to make sure my ceiling fan is off
clever sky
Jump 20cm in reality, jump 1.5m in VR. 😄
clever sky
And I could dunk!
digital marlin
clever sky
But won't include that in the update - difficult to get it working robustly.
So will have to put more work into it when I can.
Also, my calves were on full pump after that night! hahaha.
digital marlin
It'll be interesting to see if there's any physical rehab traction
clever sky
Yeah, with the range of options I'm putting into it... it'll probably be useful for that too!
Like you can play seated if you want.
digital marlin
Get that medical money
clever sky
Oh yeah. I should talk to researchers too.
The stuff I'm working on is actually a huge boon for them. Just all the options.
digital marlin
Well developing a very specific step-by-step instruction.
not to mention the data points too
clever sky
Yeah. Get some data integration going so it'll be more useful for them. Charge that government contractor money 😛
digital marlin
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
clever sky
Haha... I think the most difficult part of it all will be relocating myself to a more pro VR city...
I've lived in Perth pretty much my whole life D:
digital marlin
Maybe Perth is the VR city
clever sky
That'd be a hellavu surprise to me 😃
digital marlin
heh
There's a festival in Brisbane called the IRL festival
I reckon it's worth the trip to showcase your stuff there
digital marlin
Honestly not sure how big it is.
Especially with regards to VR
But I think it'll be the big drawcard.
Big fish. Little pond.
I think it's in August
clever sky
Fair enough 😃 might be worth it if the people are right - people looking to invest in VR space, or VR companies scouting around.
I'll have a bit of a research 😃 tcheers
digital marlin
Yeah check it out. I think it's early days for VR in general but it's not a bad place to start
clever sky
That's depressing. A quick google search reveals that most of the people working on VR in perth are doing 360 photo and stereo tour kinda stuff.
clever sky
Yeah... there's a VR 'arcade' here. Wonder how they're doing :p
digital marlin
It moved left and right.
But it rumbled and would spin a little. It was pretty good
That with VR would be epic.
clever sky
Ah yeah 😃
There's like an industrial scale motion simulator out there.
Trying to find a vid of it.
digital marlin
Actually you're a smart guy. Is there any way to take in-game screenshots with VR that doesn't have the Stereo look?
Was thinking of adapting the Automation Screen Shot
clever sky
Er... stereo as in distorted
Or stereo as in both eyes?
You can easily mirror one eye 😛
Not the one I was thinking of, but pretty damn badass 😄
digital marlin
lol holy hell
Fuck that lopl
If I freak out at a cardboard zombie this thing would destroy me.
clever sky
Haha 😄 would be a hellavu ride tho.
clever sky
Well... for my vids, I somehow got a fullscreen view happening for the mirror on launch.
And to be honest, I'm not even sure what I did. One of my console commands maybe? Set screenpercentage
Because otherwise it starts letterboxed.
And for my screenshots, I've been faking them.
I hear that's what a lot of devs are doing.
digital marlin
Yeah I wanted to integrate it into it at runtime
clever sky
But I'm sure you could set up a screen capture component. Render to screen on command.
clever sky
I'd investigate that direction - like how they do fake mirrors.
Ah ok.
And then there's a render to canvas function
But I haven't explored how to save that data as a .jpg/.png or something else useful.
Although I'm sure there's something out there!
Actually, I'm pretty sure there's a marketplace plugin that can handle that sort of stuff for you, if you're interested in shelling out about 20-30 for it.
clever sky
Nice. I wonder if that'll take a canvas render as the input.
The goal is to render like... a large screenshot not in native VR res right?
digital marlin
yeah exactly.
clever sky
Yeah, that'd be handy.
digital marlin
The end end goal is so people can take SS of their VR experience and share it on social media etc.
clever sky
A big shot would probably tank performance for a second or two though.
But use some sort of shutter blackout effect? 😛
clever sky
But higher than 1080 x 1200.
clever sky
Yeah fair enough. 😃
digital marlin
Alright, git erased the last 24 hours of change so I gotta redo what I did last night
clever sky
D:
digital marlin
ugh
Should've gone Perforce or Plastic
Er.. are the default UEVR settings the best for AA?
dusk vigil
I'm having some weird problem: MotionController(R)Trigger not getting called with Touch controllers.
I've been sanity checking pretty heavily:
) Tried to remake the input action
) Checked that no other code is calling it so it is not blocking
) L trigger works, R grip works...
hmmm
) checked that it works in other software like Medium
digital marlin
So the MC R trigger isn't firing at all?
dusk vigil
Yeah, I made some basic checks, tried both the TeleportR Event and the raw MC(R)Trigger events
clever sky
And dumb question, but you've confirmed the trigger works?
digital marlin
dumb q but have you tried quitting UE, and rebooting the vive?
dusk vigil
Yeah, just tested it with Medium and I guess it's just time to reboot everything : )=
fingers crossed
digital marlin
Yeah that's the hail mary
dusk vigil
re antialiasing, I think somebody mentioned that a good safe way might be just to pump up the basic AA higher
not my area of expertise tho
digital marlin
yeah I see that in a few places but where is the actual setting?
dusk vigil
no idea : ) rebooted, still same. hmmm, more sanity checking time
digital marlin
dang
dusk vigil
guess I download the starter vr template again and check against that to verify it is project dependent
real needle
@Fantasifall#5059 the camera is tracked with another controller and I'm setting the fov on a scene capture component
@full junco camera is fully movable! Just had it on a tripod to record the video 😉
clever sky
What kinda optimizing? And what happened? 😛
digital marlin
heh
Ah, to be honest, I'm not sure.
Trying to wrap my head around how lighting works
clever sky
Ah ok.
Static baked = most efficient. Dynamic lights 1 for forward shader, more for deferred.
And stationary is close to dynamic in cost?
Those are the rules of thumb I've learnt here 😛
digital marlin
I'm reading up on how static meshes themselves need to have their lighting turned off?
or changed or someting of that nature?
clever sky
Hmm. Not sure. Do they mean emissive materials on the mesh? Or prebaked lighting?
dusk vigil
Hmph. Made a clean test project with VR Template, problem persists, right trigger is out of commision in UE PIE
oh dear
clever sky
@dusk vigil But it works on packaged?
dusk vigil
mighty carbon
mighty carbon
mighty carbon
Lunch time already and still no news on verdict 😦
brittle crystal
Does anyone else have problems starting projects with forward shading? The launcher always gets stuck at 39%, even with empty projects.
Ok nevermind. It was the shader compiler
green fractal
Anybody got their hands on the htc trackers yet?
dusk vigil
Mid-March is the schedule for situation update
on the trackers for people who are not already hands on
pearl tangle
@green fractal applications close up end of feb I think
real needle
@full junco Your DF works on moveable objects? How's the shadow res?
pearl tangle
@mighty carbon you are never going to give up on mobile vr are you? hah
I just don't see any of those kickstarter things taking off. The STEM tracker was another promising 1, that still hasn't shipped at all but now with the vive trackers coming along it's pretty much lost it's opportunity to break into the market. especially since OSVR will just start working with the lighthouse and whatnot soon id say
mighty carbon
@pearl tangle Mobile VR will lead VR field until desktop VR becomes affordable. That will take years. It already has larger market. Plus at this moment it's easier to develop for mobile VR, content wise at least. So, yeah, don't plan on giving it up yet 😃
pearl tangle
it might have the larger "market share" but the actual metrics that matter are "daily/weekly usage"
mighty carbon
no data on that subject
pearl tangle
well you think that 😉
oh also don't hold your breath on getting an S8 any time too soon btw
clever sky
It'll be funny when motorsep finally gets hold of a Vive or a Rift with Touch.
"Oh my god. I've wasted all this time on mobile."
pearl tangle
haha. some mobile VR stuff can still be good. but yeah after you work with motion controllers and positional tracking there is no way you can go back :p
full junco
@real needle I think distance field stuff always works with movable objects, in my case the objects don't move though
the shadow resolution is way higher than with CSM, I think theres actually not any limit for that with DF shadows, it looks like infinite res the shadow has
mighty carbon
@pearl tangle why not ?
@clever sky oh, I don't doubt desktop VR with motion controls and positional tracking is much cooler and more immersive. It just much harder to develop for and the market is small (and too picky).
pearl tangle
expect something more like May rather than March
It's actually easier to develop for I think since you make natural interactions with things. Want to shoot something, then just pick up a gun and point it
mighty carbon
complexity of code and level of details for assets is what I mean
I see how many people struggle with those controllers and such :/
full junco
you cant struggle with the controllers, ue4 is doing it all for you
pearl tangle
mobile is tougher still with that since you need to focus a lot more on optimization. was much more of a headache doing the stuff to release on gear vr and cardboard/daydream than desktop
limber rose
sure, but VR on the Vive is much more impressive, hard to go back after you experience it 😄 we have a rift and two vive HMDs here, and I have to say I'm pretty spoiled on this, hard for me to look at mobile, but we just got approached by a museum to maybe do their VR program and they will need some sort of 'mobile' solution, I am just starting to do research
I see that mobile fills a huge gaping hole in the "road to VR"
mighty carbon
And I get that.. From business perspective mobile VR right now is what Steam used to be - money making machine for small devs without PR budget
(1-2 people teams)
limber rose
yeah, totally true
mighty carbon
Desktop can be a pinnacle of current VR. Yet, how many people own it vs how many people own Gear VR ? Vblaco reported his sales numbers on Steam and Oculus Home here.. It's nothing from business perspective. It's basically selling as badly as any average indie PC game in 2016/17, e.g. outright badly.
also desktop people are picky, myself including 😛
on Gear VR anything with coherent art style and some essence goes
limber rose
hehe, will find out soon myself as well, we're releasing on Steam in June
I need to look into Gear VR
mighty carbon
good luck 😃 I have non-VR PC project in works and I have no clue how it will be selling on Steam :/
limber rose
cool, got a link? would like to bookmark and track
mighty carbon
it's still in works, no links available yet 😐
I don't even make any posts about it until I am 100% sure programmers finishes his part of the deal
(had already a few projects tanked because of programmers dropping out)
limber rose
no worries, I still look forward to it 😃
we're cautious about any announcements as well, have to be
mighty carbon
I think I managed to get my inventory working, finally. Now can collect unique items, stackable items, gold/currency, ammo, etc. 😊
pearl tangle
have you got store stats on the gear vr stuff @mighty carbon ?
nobody else on here really seems to have released anything on there to provide any other insight
mighty carbon
nah, I just go by conventional assumption that 1% of the total number of target users might buy your product
I need to finish my "experience" and release it to get stats 😃
pearl tangle
i think its a major major overestimation to have 1% sale if you are assuming that on the 5 million number they released
mighty carbon
well, that's if all 5M are my target audience 😉
(which isn't)
anyhow, off for today o/
pearl tangle
yeah id say depending on the application of it then maybe 10% of the full audience is your target then 1% of that or more conservative would be 0.1%
pearl tangle
anybody good with 3D and effects and wants a job in singapore working on VR stuff? I have to make a new hire. bunch of new projects coming in
granite jacinth
$$$$$$
pearl tangle
hah yes, but maybe remove some of those dollar signs since we are an agency not a huge game company :p
not that game companies pay people much either i guess
raven halo
I'm not sure where to ask, is anyone here from europe or australia and has had to go through the process of becoming a Sony partner?
the form claims that if you live in Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Middle East, Russia or India, you don't need to submit any forms to take advantage of the tax treaties. Which is strange to me, as I've had to fill out W8BEN form for Valve in the past for this very same reason, now all of a sudden it's not necessary?
wicked oak
"Significant" is one way to put it -- less than 10% is an even more accurate way. This for one of the most well-known hardcore gamer franchises with a VR option. But if only 1 in 10 hardcore gamers are opting into VR, how much less will the rest of population opt in?
oh god that website @motorsep#8292
10% of playrs playing with a 500 dollar peripheral sounds low?
90k players playing in PSVR is fucking huge
as i linked here, raw data was 65k, and arizona sunshine 55k or so
(arizona sunshine not counting oculus, add a bit more sales there)
Elite Dangerous also has a lot of VR players, but i think they dont reach 10%
that was written by a VR hater, of the (vr is nothing but 3d tv again) kind
raven halo
I read a few days ago an article by one of these analysis firms that claimed that one of the main reasons VR wasn't blowing up was the fact that there are not enough OLED screens being produced.
Heck, even Apple has trouble getting them!
wicked oak
no, its price
wicked oak
even the subpar(compared to pcvr) PSVR is 400 dollars + camera sold separate
and psvr is normal led, not oled
raven halo
is it really?
wicked oak
yes
raven halo
wow, I had no idea
wicked oak
PC vr has no future, at least that i see
becouse its way too hard and way too expensive for average joe
and half the population is even worse at tech than average joe
PCVR will be the premium option, for enthusiasts
Oculus is smart going for all-in-one headsets
PSVR is a halfway option, as a much more approchable thing
wich is why its selling more than oculus and vive together
pearl tangle
yeah don't think the screens are the main cost factor in there. needing the expensive ass gaming pc is never going to be something everybody does thats for sure
I would be curious to see how many people actually went and bought a PS4 purely for VR vs those that already had the PS4 and got the PSVR to go with it
wicked oak
50 million ps4s already around
i think people just got the PSVR
at least a huge percentage
pearl tangle
still be curious to see what percentage that is just for shits and giggles
wicked oak
becouse if you are building from new, you can spend more and getan Oculus + pc pack
pearl tangle
vive is actually doing very well in China and they have no competition from Oculus there and they also control the app market for it too
wicked oak
there are ones aroun for 1200$
becouse htc is chinese
oculus is american
they have no plans for china that i know of, while vive has viveport
pearl tangle
Tiwanese but yeah close enough
wicked oak
steam isnt allowed in china i think
pearl tangle
bigger market of gamers in china than the rest of the world combined pretty much and it's ignored by Oculus.
yep steam is not used much in china so Vive really took advantage of it there
pearl tangle
they have the benefits that Oculus gets with their store for taking % cut (they even have a mobile store too) and they get the hardware sales where they actually make a decent profit
wicked oak
my game got pirated in tons of chinese sites riht after publishing it
i also have more reviews on asian sites, than on western sites
a cuarter of my players are asian, half are american, and the other quarter is european
pearl tangle
yeah and then people bitch about DRM. I have been playing Tales of Berseria over the weekend. so many posts on the forum bitching about denuvo. doesn't make any difference to playing the game really
You running Google Analytics in your stuff or another tracker?
wicked oak
i have it disabled due to ps4 stuff
but im going to re-enable it with enhanced stats
and ill add stats if it cant do steam subsystem or oculus subsystem
pearl tangle
ah yeah you need to do the opt in for data collection stuff with ps4
GA is the way to go, then create yourself some fancy looking dashboards with data studio. Looks nice up in the office
wicked oak
any tips for higher quality stats?
i have them on VRMultigames
so i can get things like average score
pearl tangle
I throw event tracking on everything. Just post out an event whenever some kind of interaction happens and setup your sessions properly and you can easily track things like
games played per session
kills per session
average play time
total shots fired
etc etc
wicked oak
i think i was using custom events for that
pearl tangle
yeah grab the google analytics plugin on the marketplace. just adds a few extra nodes to the analytics stuff already in unreal
wicked oak
thats what i use
pearl tangle
Analytics Dashboard
for this 1 I did for Fiji Airways. That 1 is just a GA dashboard not a data studio 1 but you can do fancy looking things with data studio
i was firing events on the spawn of every different thing in the level. tracking for collision to see if people were standing up or sitting down, if they walked to the windows etc. Checking the different species of birds, fish, butterflies spawned
wicked oak
how do you do that?
so just events with some values in the game, and then some fancy graphs?
pearl tangle
Ski Game Analytics
yeah that stuff is all just built in with Google analytics.
on that 1 I have 1 which is also showing how many for different hours of the day and stuff. better ways to demonstrate that in data studio
wicked oak
i knpw, but i didnt know how to get good graphs in one place
mine are all around and that
pearl tangle
create a custom dashboard in GA
pull in all the different metrics you want. But you can only show 12 different things on the page at once
I think it's still currently free to use but might be going into the enterprise 1 only but Google Data Studio you can customize much better
super simple dodgy 1 i put together for the above data but you can get the idea
pearl tangle
yeah can pull data from a lot of different places into there. but yeah I have a feeling it might be becoming only available in GA 360 which you wont be able to access
worth checking out. just don't become reliant on a software which you might not be able to use for long hah
wicked oak
ima try it on VRMultigames,where i stopped using GA as i updated to 4.14
and the plugin wasnt updated
then check how it goes with fancy graphs and stats
both oculus and steam at the same time
pearl tangle
yeah you should be able to split out the data between the headsets easily too. Just make sure you post across the HMD type at some point
give me a shout if you need any help with it. I should point out that I own an Analytics/ Data company and resell GA Enterprise so I have access to all the tools
raven halo
I've been told china has a lot of standalone VR devices as opposed to gearVR type devices
I know of some friends who are trying to get their hands on SDKs but they are stuck in customs for a month lol
mighty carbon
for lone devs like myself (or even a small team), PSVR is out of reach (unless you have a lot of disposable income to get dev kits and pay for ESRB rating and such)
wicked oak
not that expensive
you can actually get loaned devkits
esrb is 800 dollars
still better that launching into the black void that its steam
mighty carbon
what's "loaned devkits"? free?
wicked oak
yes
they lend you a free devkit
it has a waiting queue and can take a lot of time so...
mighty carbon
interesting
mighty carbon
oh, f@cking USA.. No static IP for residential Internet and business account costs a way more than residential.
So, no PS4 development for me until who knows when
wicked oak
you need a registered company too
mighty carbon
yeah, that's not of a big deal since it's a one time registration fee
Situation with Internet is bizarre here
cobalt relic
@mighty carbon To be fair you'd have the same issue (dynamic IP) in many countries, though US do appear to have insanely high Internet prices
mighty carbon
can't upgrade upstream for residential, can't get static IP with residential
apparently Spain doesn't have such issue
I know Russia doesn't either
cobalt relic
I'm positive all french operators have had dynamic IPs like forever
But yeah, maybe that's not universal
At least we have dirt cheap connectivity
mighty carbon
yeah, but can't you just pay extra for static IP in France ?
(without having to pay for business account)
cobalt relic
Well some providers might offer that, yeah
But I just checked for the biggest one and it's a pro feature
wicked oak
i pay 20 euros extra to get the ip
wicked oak
lets me put a content server and access ps4 stuff
mighty carbon
Funny thing is we have only like 2 Internet providers for entire country. Bizarre situation. We had 3 (major ones; to my knowledge), but then one got swallowed by another :/
cobalt relic
Yeah
Also you don't even, really
Like if you're in a city you have only one of them, right ?
mighty carbon
yep
and if you are not in the city/metro area, you might be shit out of luck and have to use 4G on your smartphone (and a lot of times connection is so crappy that you can't really do much)
mighty carbon
so, Gear VR is the least expensive VR platform with higher ROI
well, that doesn't sound safe already http://www.gsmarena.com/report_suggests_the_galaxy_s8_and_s8_plus_will_have_bigger_batteries_than_the_s7_duo-news-23083.php
Fb wanted to fly drones to provide Internets, but if they get slammed in court today, it's unlikely to happen any time soon
clever sky
I'd get depressed developing for Gear VR.
mighty carbon
why?
it's like modding Quake, except you have awesome tools now.
Yeah, optimization sucks, but if you plan ahead, it's not that bad
(if you ever modded old games, it should come natural 😃 )
clever sky
@mighty carbon Because I'd have to design for the little touchpad interface.
Would basically end up making something basic like an adventure game.
Myst style adventure game.
I'm not doing VR to make slide shows! Even though it'd probably do alright in sales.
mighty carbon
that's a common misconception
you can make FPS with just using touchpad
(with gamepad support for normal folks)
I already brainstormed how touchpad controls would work with action oriented FPS gameplay and in theory it should work really well.
although I'd still prefer playing it with gamepad. Note that if the game is good, people will purchase gamepad.
(Minecraft and Dreadhalls require gamepad)
as a matter of fact, actual gamers already have gamepads
clever sky
Limit your vaunted 5 million users significantly though.
Also touchpad is just a bad fit for FPS, even if you can 'make a FPS work with it'.
It's worse than touch screen for FPS.
Nonetheless. The main point to my initial comment was that - going from full VR to half VR would be depressing.
wicked oak
touchsceen is not bad for frps
you played NDS shooters like the metroid one?
they work at PC accuracy(with stylus)
mighty carbon
well, it's nothing like touchscreen FPS - you aim with you head and shoot/swap weapons with touchpad. Much more comfortable than aiming with your finger dragged over the small screen (or worse - using virtual d-pad)
and sure, it's not the same as literally aiming weapons with your hands.
however, unless you are making your project for you and a small audience, you should think of mobile VR as full VR for 5M users as that's all they have experienced
ember comet
Heya guys,I'm giving away 3 GDC passes via a contest, Right here if you're interested: https://www.facebook.com/SprintRVR/photos/a.1059747734103338.1073741829.1023077881103657/1165894160155361/?type=3&theater
Not trying to be spammy btw, I think it's relevant, and hopefully somebody here wins a pass.
ember comet
oh crap, I didn't notice. Easter egg!
lol
I have them sitting right here on my desk too, damn that's ridiculous 😛
granite jacinth
Has anyone done any HRTF audio work?
mighty carbon
I use FMOD with Oculus spatializer on Gear VR, if that counts 😃
granite jacinth
I think the audio guys are using WWise
but, I am talking about actual implementing in engine
Is it pretty straight forward?
mighty carbon
FMOD is the only system that works on Android
I haven't done much. Just basic point sounds with attenuation. Haven't done reverb yet.
Simple enough to work with. Setting it up is a bit cumbersome.
I also like licensing model of FMOD
ember comet
So, anyone going to gdc?
wicked oak
not me
2 expensive
and i mean FAAAAAAAAR too expensive
could easily run into the 3k dollars expenses
and im going to go there when it will take more than 3 times the budget of the game i would show XD
mighty carbon
price you have to pay for PR 😃
mighty carbon
me or vblanco or every single active person in this chat? 😛
wicked oak
on the other goddamn side of the world in Europe
ember comet
ah, I see
mighty carbon
on the bright side you only need 20 EUR to get static IP, @wicked oak 😉
ember comet
well, I'm speaking generally, but that question was for Vblanco
You guys developing VR projects?
wicked oak
i am
ember comet
Nice, got a site?
mighty carbon
I am in TX, but still, going to GDC makes no sense to me (and is pricey regardless)
wicked oak
ember comet
Oh nice, so FPS
it's like, perfect for my controller 😃 you should consider grabbing a devkit when we get them up.
wicked oak
if you send me one for free, then maybe
ember comet
Ah, no
I don't have any reason to do that.
Anyone have the touch controllers, or do you all use the Vive instead?
wicked oak
i use both + PSVR
real needle
@ember comet What's your controller?
ember comet
Fantis, it's called SprintR, lets you walk/run/jump around in VR hands free www.sprintRVR.com
real needle
@ember comet I've tried such devices, like 3drudder and a bunch of others. I don't really see why we need such a device. It doesn't solve motion sickness, requires games to be wasd, and can't really be used for roomscale. It's too niched of a product to develop a complete "hands free" input solution, each dev would need to support regular wasd on any handheld controller as well
For archviz walkabouts and such maybe
I developed the same thing w o any hardware necessary, just using the positional tracking of your HMD
I'll come try it at GDC if you were planning to demo there. Are you demoing sitting or standing?
ember comet
actually, it's nothing like 3d rudder
real needle
it's the same fundamental idea
ember comet
really, it's not. I've tried the 3d rudder
real needle
your execution might be better, but it still requires wasd movement
ember comet
yea, booth PL4935
games require wasd movement mate
it's not like it's something I invented.
and while roomscale is fine and all, it's limited to....roomscale and teleportation
real needle
but you're limiting the user to one spot
ember comet
And I think you're thinking about it the wrong way... for example
real needle
essentially making roomscale games incompatible
ember comet
this loads as a standard gamepad, so you don't really have to do any work to include it. What it DOES do for developers is allow them to divorce movement from the hands
which means you don't need to use a gamepad or controller to move the player, you can have it holding an item and be used as hands alone
real needle
we don't really dev for standard gamepads, unless you do mobile
ember comet
it works on mobile as well
You can try for yourself, so far the crytek and HTC reps have loved it
It also has the added benefit of letting them port existing games to VR, games which are wasd
and given the massive lack of content for VR, I think that's a big win for the consumer.
real needle
I think porting regular games to VR is a big fail for most consumers, but I haven't seen the fallout port yet so we'll see
using existing content to speed up development however, that's fair
real needle
well it also seems like you want to use a mouse and gamepad for vr so... we disagree on a couple of things ^^
ember comet
these "VR experiences" are the big fail.
real needle
and "these" are?
ember comet
yea like all of them
and consumers generally agree with that sentiment, considering the constant noise about lack of quality content.
not to mention the survey my company ran showing 76% of respondents wanted their existing games in VR
real needle
ofc they do
ember comet
so, gamepad + gun stuck to head for them then? No thanks.
Fantis: DId you watch the videos on our site?
real needle
so financially, you think I would be able to develop an input solution for a FPS WITHOUT adding support for movement on touchpad/thumbstick on the motioncontroller?
ember comet
real needle
and I think you're in a bit of a bubble
yaw turning
is a no
you turn using your body
real needle
how much roomscale VR have you done?
ember comet
I've been working in VR for a long time. Done some projects for Google and others so far.
Roomscale is limited
mighty carbon
eeh, this is sooo wrong. Why turn with this controller when you can turn entire body?!
real needle
Roomscale is wide of a term. It can mean standing
@mighty carbon that's what I'm saying
I've tried similar solutions
They work for sitting
ember comet
I think you're very confused.
real needle
But I would never consider it for standing
ember comet
turn your body and then what? Go where?
you're limited to the size of you're little box
mighty carbon
You can turn in swivel chair (that's what I do with gear VR)
ember comet
you're so focused on turning, what about locomotion ?
mighty carbon
it's been shown times and times again that linear motion in VR as in conventional FPS games causes motion sickness.
real needle
@ember comet lol, I'm really wondering how much recent stuff you've played. turn your body and maybe say, push touchpad down to move forward in direction of controller?
ala Onward style
if we're talking any type of "standard" movement in VR
ember comet
Yea, this is where we differ
real needle
I'm trying to design around all of it, so that no1 becomes sick from playing
ember comet
walking with hands = not cool for me
mighty carbon
you turn around and you dash or teleport. you don't physically walk anywhere. "Room scale" doesn't mean you have to literally move in a physical room 😉
ember comet
thing is, just like VR has to be actually experienced for someone to "get it", I think our controller is the same way.
real needle
so you're actually expecting people to stand up, and use your controller to yaw turn?
ember comet
if you're going to GDC, come try it out, then we can talk more earnestly about it.
mighty carbon
Play Serious Sam in VR.. It has good set of locomotion mechanics.
real needle
you didn't answer my question
mighty carbon
market will prove you wrong
ember comet
Motorsep: You should concentrate really hard and pray it does, that way you can feel good about yourself that another developer spent a ton of time , money, and effort trying to solve a big problem and failed. that will make you a big man.
real needle
we're all for innovation here, but we also like to help