it's nothing important to fix
#virtual-reality
full junco
pearl tangle
well when people like McLarren and BMW want to have multiple people on their team collaborate together it can become important
granite jacinth
?
It's a bug
They need to fix the bug
Not really hard logic there
The fact that people have to manually replicate or change source or use plugins, definitely means that the issue warrants the attention it deserves.
full junco
I mean you can just send a function call to the clients every tick and let them update the position
granite jacinth
Yeah, there are plenty of workarounds
pearl tangle
yeah seems like something thats an easy fix
granite jacinth
But, what I am saying is, there shouldn't be.
full junco
I don't even think the engine should support it out of the box
granite jacinth
Especially after trying to make VR super important...
pearl tangle
thats the problem with big organizations. their "Triage" system is a little bit flawed
granite jacinth
I mean, the bug has been around for over a year and plenty of workaround and PRs about and they can't accept a PR? Or fix it themselves?
full junco
simple stuff should be implemented in the game, not in the engine
full junco
no need to "fix" anything
full junco
yeah I agree about pr
pearl tangle
yeah tough 1 to figure out which PR's to use and not use when you are aiming for specific feature releases. There is no proper automated testing in place when you do a PR though right?
granite jacinth
Nope, they put it under review, test it out themselves
Usually people upvote PRs
make a big stink about it however they can
The current process is obviously showing its age
pearl tangle
yeah thats the thing that slows them down a lot. with web stuff we always have to run it through unit tests and automated tests so you know the stuff compiles and works properly. makes it much easier to approve a PR
granite jacinth
Right, and people are actually testing this though
The other community members
And will state usually if it's good or bad
pearl tangle
yeah but there is no robot sitting there with a big red or green sign going yep its good to go.
granite jacinth
Well, from the PRs that I've been paying attention to anyway
pearl tangle
people only test that their specific feature is working. regression testing is something thats a lot more complex to do as a human
granite jacinth
Right
I don't know, I think I am just annoyed that they make a big deal about stuff, but then abandon it
pearl tangle
when i was doing enterprise grade stuff we would have to ensure 90% code coverage with tests. meaning 9/10 lines of code needed to be touched with a unit test. then you have integration tests and user acceptance tests. because you never know that maybe 1 line you change could break somehting completely unrelated a mile away
pearl tangle
yeah thats why I joined up on the UDN. get much better answers and assistance much faster. plus helpful intro's. they just got me in touch with the HTC guys to try and get some of the vive trackers last night ๐
granite jacinth
I just rather they fix stuff before moving onto other bigger features and leaving a trail of bugs and half ass implementations
Nice
full junco
@pearl tangle and how did you get access to udn?
pearl tangle
yeah. pay them some money per seat essentially
full junco
is it possible for a single developer?
granite jacinth
Yea
pearl tangle
i went through the enterprise side of things since thats more the area im playing in with the events and other software projects but they will have different stuff for regular game development type stuff
you can buy as many seats as you want
full junco
is it fixed price?
pearl tangle
doubt im allowed to talk about the pricing of it. you would have to get in touch with epic directly and they will let you know what suits your need
s
full junco
ok
I just wonder how much money you have to make with a game for it to be worth paying that money to epic for better support
I just think that if you have a game on steam and player ask about some bug that you can't fix because its some deep engine bug, then I think it would look reall unprofessional from the perspective of the players if they could follow the whole conversation you have with epic about that bug on the answerhub...
its kinda lame that epic wants 5% of your money and then not even gives you a private way of reporting bugs once you have a game released. doesn't really sound like a good system.
restive blade
Considering you are getting acsess to a system that cost many many millions to develop.. I'd say it's pretty decent ๐
I don't think a player is going to care about how you fix a bug also
and anything that is that broken will normally get fixed pretty fast
pearl tangle
yeah 5 odd years ago it was a 7 figure licensing fee
full junco
doesn't really matter how it was 5 years ago
for anyone having a game released there should be some private way to report bugs to epic
for "free"
full junco
I don't have a game released yet
its just that when I would have one released, I definitely wouldnt want players of the game to follow me on the answerhub and see all stuff I report to epic about what ue4 bugs I see in the game
restive blade
well here's the thing.. there are tens of thousands of ue4 devs... all working with the system... if a massive bug comes up.. it'll most likely get reported... you should also spend most of your time testing as best you can. Also.. I really don't think players care that much.. they also DO not understand the game bugs are not the same as engine bugs...
full junco
massive bugs are fixed fast, yeah, but there are often bugs that no one else reported before
I see those all the time
especially when you do a game that isn't some sort of FPS
restive blade
yeah man.. I get ya.. but I think your making a fuss of things that are not really an issue... you could also use a different name on the forums lol
full junco
well its not related to #vr anyways ๐
odd garnet
we have a bug right now that is minor and probably will never get fixed
it just happens
restive blade
one persons bug is a feature to another (j/k sorta)
Some many extra optimizations for VR ๐ฆ
pearl tangle
@full junco most bugs are better off being in public space for people to see and maybe somebody will give you an answer about it. when you are using the engine for free I don't think you should expect to have a customer support rep
full junco
@pearl tangle its not free, its 5% of revenue
pearl tangle
you are developing with it for free, probably 90% of the stuff made with it doesn't pay epic anything actually
full junco
yeah, but I talk about when someone released a game somewhere and gives epic the 5%
pearl tangle
yeah even when you release a game, majority of them released don't make over $50k so don't pay anything to Epic. if you are making enough money from it then you pay for dedicated support
full junco
why $50k? you pay epic 5% once you are over $3k
pearl tangle
oh they changed it. used to be $50k. I guess they realised they weren't making anything on most stuff
full junco
it was never $50k for UE4
pearl tangle
ah maybe i was thinking of udk
either way you aren't paying them enough for dedicated support like UDN if your game makes $50k a year thats going to be less than UDN access
full junco
if they need so much money just for giving you a way to privately report bugs then thats way too expensive, having something like the answerhub just in private shouldnt cause them any relevant amount of cost, so they should also offer it for free to anyone who gives them money through the 5%
thats my opinion, you can disagree
pearl tangle
its also paying to have dedicated support which is monitoring your questions with a proper response time and assignment to specific staff responsible for those fields, assistance with publishing and pr stuff and other things which you get for paying for a service.
full junco
they dont need to offer that stuff for free, I only talk about a way to privately report bugs
pearl tangle
i don't know that anybody has ever tried to bring that up to them before. since the answerhub is for the community to provide you support, not really epic staff since they don't monitor that or the forums so they would need some other kind of thing in place purely for bug reports i suppose
restive blade
also.. free for VR if I remember right
full junco
the answerhub bug report sections is managed by epic
@restive blade whats free for VR?
restive blade
ue4
pearl tangle
nah epic doesn't have anything different for VR. it's steam that you can bypass greenlight if you are doing vr
full junco
@restive blade maybe you mean that oculus stuff
pearl tangle
it's not supported by them. they dont monitor the regular answerhub. as in nobody is specifically assigned to monitor it or keep track of it. its meant to be more community managed than epic staff managed
full junco
the bug report section is
pearl tangle
oh they look at it but there is no accounts guy monitoring it or anything to assign to a particular staff member like they have with UDN
full junco
yes there is
if you report a bug on the AH then it gets assigned to someone at epic
then they trie to reproduce it etc until its entered as a bug in their JIRA
pearl tangle
yeah but they dont have any guaranteed response time or anything to it or a specific engine dev etc assigned to give you a response on it
pearl tangle
yep but usual response is "yep we can reproduce it, it's added to the backlog" with the UDN it will be like yep we reproduced it, here's a way to get around it
full junco
if theres a way around it, they also mention it on the AH
pearl tangle
if it's a known thing they that can fix quickly sure. the benefit with the UDN is they will assign somebody to the task to give you a fix straight away. even if it takes them a few days to do it. definitely worthwhile if you are doing some weird complex stuff with tight timeframes but as an indie dev 90% of the stuff is probably things other people have already ran into i suppose. just bring it up with them if you feel it's a big problem to have things public and maybe they will introduce something. they only started the enterprise stuff less than a year ago off the back of user requests
full junco
what "enterprise stuff"?
pearl tangle
so they have an entire team setup for enterprise use now. so non gaming stuff. like the project they did with McLaren.
full junco
ok
pearl tangle
since I do events based stuff and whatnot thats more what I needed since it's very weird problems you might come up against that nobody else does so they started that entire department off the back of a few requests
clever sky
Service level agreements are expensive. And that's what you're paying for with UDN.
Answerhub is great. But that's for epic's convenience, not yours ๐
Your convenience is access to answerhub and forums and a multi-million dollar engine to build stuff off.
full junco
forward renderer doesnt support ambient cubemap, skylight I find too expensive and its annoyingly ugly too, so I found a better solution for getting a minimal brightness in shadowed areas
just directly adding it there in the shader
pearl tangle
any comparison images you got there @full junco
full junco
@pearl tangle it looks 100% same like an ambient cubemap
but its probably 100 times faster
ambient cubemap actually was something like 0.2 ms per eye I think, this should be almost not measurable
pearl tangle
could be pretty interesting fix then
full junco
its not a "fix"
its more like a new feature
UE4s .usf shader have to be very general-purpose
this is a solution for a very specific purpose
so they would never add something like this in there, but adding it manually is great when it makes sense for the game
I've never really looked through the .usf files before, so it actually took me a few hours to figure out how to get the result I want
but now I think theres actually a lot of stuff that can be removed there in the shaders to make it fit a very specific purpose (my game)
restive blade
something like this was sugested for photogrammetry captures.. to help intergrate shadows into them properly
pearl tangle
good to know. going to be doing some full scene photogrammetry stuff soon for a project
restive blade
Well if u have any questions @pearl tangle just ask.. I've done quite a lot of it ๐
pearl tangle
full scene photogrammetry or you have done it for objects to place in a scene?
full junco
my min light thing was buggy, since it was used for point lights too
eternal inlet
@uti@zenith charm @graceful junco If any of you guys downloaded my demo project when i posted it, pls redownload. I made an update because i found that sometimes you would spawn in the calibration room without a body. Looking forward to hear if you find additional bugs
restive blade
sent you pm @pearl tangle
eternal inlet
was it here or another section where someone was mentioning a source control system that allowed you to do blueprint comparison between versions?
pearl tangle
it was here. plastic or something i believe it was
pearl tangle
nah haven't tried it before
pearl tangle
git with git lfs is what I use but its far from perfect. If you are working on a project alone then it's not so bad but once you have a large team it's tricky
svn somewhere is another alternative but neither are really made for large assets, just code really
eternal inlet
tried git shortly, didn't like it
tried Perforce, liked it but was frigging buggy and kept timing out
tried svn, cant recall why i didn't continue with that
that Plastic stuff sure looks promising
especially with the blueprint compare plugin thingie
pearl tangle
git works fine if you know how to use it. just use sourcetree or something and bitbucket or gitlab and you are fine. there is already a diff engine inside unreal directly for most stuff but yeah the plastic plugin looks like it does a better job. i have just never used plastic before so can't really comment on it as a vcs in general
eternal inlet
i'll play around with them all again a bit i think
in the end, i suppose it's worth finding a good solution for
pearl tangle
yeah unreal still struggles to have a highly efficient version control system integration. perforce is probably the best but licensing is expensive for indies
eternal inlet
thought perforce was free for up to 5 members?
atleast i know i didn't pay a dime for using it
eternal inlet
aha
but again, for me atleast it kept timing out during updates
could be because i was hosting it on my labtop next to me
pearl tangle
quite possibly
pearl tangle
i mostly do events based stuff. but have a few augmented reality games potentially for a client and some enterprise stuff with photogrammetry scenes coming up
working through showreel at the moment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HJfLT-41Vc 360 showreel
pearl tangle
I do bits and pieces but I have a 3D guy in my team who does all the complex modelling and I have 1 other programming guy
pearl tangle
Well yeah they come in handy if you are building games..Who would have thought
graceful junco
@eternal inlet got the link again?
eternal inlet
graceful junco
thx, checking it out soon.
eternal inlet
cool thx
eternal inlet
btw is there any obvious reasons not to use ie. a plane with a translucent material on top with "disable depth test" instead of stereo layers? as far as i can tell, they pretty allow you to do the same
mighty carbon
any news about Zeni vs Oculus ?
graceful junco
@eternal inlet. Just played your demo. Here are my thoughts. The full body tracking is interesting. First time I've been in a game which does that. The downwards view of the chest is fine. The legs obviously don't follow. Not sure, but not animating the legs might be better than animating them. I couldn't see my right leg move, just seeing the left leg a little bit. I kinda felt like it's ok to never see the legs at all when walking. Maybe try hiding the legs and just use them for shadow casting. That might not be an option though with a mirror or multiplayer though.
Not sure what the mirror was about. Didn't work properly. Scale and position of the mirrored mesh were completely off.
The hands of the mesh are following the controllers, but they need to be rotated and shifted a bit. I made a fist and it felt like the position of the hands in game is where my controllers are, not my real hands. The real hands are a bit further down on the controller, not on local 0,0,0 of the controller component.
mighty carbon
@wintry escarp http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2017/01/23/samsung-galaxy-s8-release-date/#5297429620bc
graceful junco
And the hands need a little bit of rotation too. Maybe everyone grabs the controllers differently, don't know. Felt just a tiny bit off.
But in general I like the tracking of the hands/arms.
When walking into a mesh, the screen turn black, which is fine. But when moving the head out again it seems like the player is teleported a bit, moved outside the mesh. That feels a bit weird cause if you want to move your head into the mesh again you need to move further than before. I wouldn't move the player.
The climbing grips are hard to grab at first. Maybe need a better indicator. At first I thought I'd just have to overlap my hand with the yellow meshes, but moving the hand too far into the mesh doesn't work. It seems like the finger tips need to be close to the edge on top.
Climbing is fine.
I'm not sure if anything can be done to make it feel more like climbing. Sometimes I had the feeling I'm pulling down the tower/wall, instead of pulling me up. That might be a level design issue though. Maybe seeing things move in the background helps. I'm not sure.
I couldn't climb the overhang unfortunately. I just couldn't find a spot for my hands to grab. I managed to grab one overhanging yellow mesh with one had, just couldn't grab a second one.
Falling feels good.
Not sure about flashing the screen black on impact. Might need to experiment with the impact effect to see what feels best.
eternal inlet
Cool observations ๐๐ผ
I will add a sound or something to convey the fact that you actually get teleported out of a wall if you stay more than 1 sec in it
graceful junco
One more thing about the climbing that was bugging me. When you grab with one hand, then grab with the other, the first hand lets go although you're still holding the trigger button. It would be nice, if you let go of the second hand, the first hand attaches again, so you don't fall down, while physically still holding your hand and trigger button where you grabbed with that hand.
eternal inlet
Yah, another issue with two hand climbing.. i actually had an implementation at first where both hands kept holding. And if you moved hands apart in real life, one of the hands got pulled off (would let go)
Didnt re implement that after i refactored it all the last weekend
Your suggestion is however definetely worth a try tho.. i like the idea
graceful junco
Have you played The Climb?
eternal inlet
About grab locations. Good points on the difficuly to find the correct spot to hold. Will revisit it
Nope i should buy it hehe
But i saw videos of it
graceful junco
I played it at my borther's. I don't remember exactly anymore how they did the climbing but both hands were definitely holding. You didn't fall, when letting go with one hand and still holding with the other.
graceful junco
So does the overhang climbing actually work? Was I just too stupid to figure it where to grab? Or is that indeed impossible atm?
eternal inlet
As far as i could tell atleast
It is possible, but can just hold the ledge
The holds are leftover holds from when i had collision volume implementation
I changed it last week to look at angles of what your hand hovers over
And only on meshes tagged with "climbable" to administer what i want to allow the player to actually climb
Will however try.. with my feeble 3d modelling skills to mold a few actual climbing holds ๐
graceful junco
๐
eternal inlet
Wish me luck! Im gonna need it
graceful junco
You could use the handles of some marketplace furniture ๐
eternal inlet
Thats too easy ๐
graceful junco
I'm sure there are some meshes you could use from the free epic example projects too.
eternal inlet
But i'll keep it in mind when i tear my hair out once i get to the uv unwrapping lol
How did the flying feel btw?
graceful junco
flying?
graceful junco
Oh, didn't know. I'll test that right away
eternal inlet
Also remember u have a nice little menu behind ur left shoulder
graceful junco
Oh, also didn't notice that ๐
mighty carbon
I am looking for either broken beyond repair and RMA Touch controller. Alternatively, can someone with Touch controller do photogrammetry ? I need to 3D print Touch so I could use it to test my accessory design
wicked oak
there are 3d models of a touch, real life sized, in ue4
mighty carbon
with buttons and all ? I need to make exact replica to be able to fit accessory.
graceful junco
@eternal inlet K, more feedback. Didn't know there was walking and running in there too. The walking/running animation is nice. Seeing your feet move in that case is cool. I guess it looks a bit odd when physically moving through the room because the speed is so low?
A few issues though with the hand movement. When you move your hands back and forth to run, you speed up and slow down all the time, which makes the movement not very smooth.
eternal inlet
Excellent point. Noted! ๐๐ผ
graceful junco
Also, moving your hands sideways changes speed, which is weird
wintry escarp
I only just got the S7, I wouldn't be buying an S8 right away anyway, if at all.
i like to get a few years out of a phone
graceful junco
That also means, when you move your hand in a circle, like from your side to front, then the other side, you move forward and at a strange speed.
mighty carbon
@wintry escarp well, if you want to develop, you probably should get it - whole new level of power in S8
graceful junco
I think I also wouldn't rumble the controllers when running. Keep that for the jetpack, makes it feel like you're actually using an engine.
graceful junco
yes
eternal inlet
Thats a bug
graceful junco
Hang on, how are you supposed to run?
eternal inlet
Did u have jet sound playing too?
graceful junco
I held down grip and moved my arms
eternal inlet
The rumbling is a bug
The swinging is supposed tocallow u to run/walk yes
Zaptruder had that jet bug too when running/walking when he tested it for me
I cant reproduce it myself for some reason
graceful junco
Ah, didn't notice the sound the first two times. Indeed, the sound is nice.
Ah, I see.
At first, just hold grips and moving arms = running. No sound, no rumbling. If you use the jepack once though, then just holding grip triggers the sound and rumbling
Also, when using the jetpack and touching the ground, the walking animation is played. It shouldn't in that case imo.
eternal inlet
I'll check in later. Otw to some social rl stuff. But thx for taking the time to test it out @graceful junco
graceful junco
Np, You're welcome.
Also, specifically in this situation your logic fails to correctly check if the character is falling or not.
Your menu is pretty btw. Really cool that the hand blends to pointing a finger when getting closer. I like that a lot. The pressing of buttons is really nice the way you did the menu.
mighty carbon
normal thorn
@mighty carbon no matter what you do you won't be able to ensure exact 1:1 with a touch controller w/o having one.
even the 3d models could be exact only to the mm
and you may need more
mighty carbon
@normal thorn a model made using photogrammetry and dimensions taken from actual Touch controller will be precise enough to make an accessory that attached well to the actual Touch controller (I'd 3D print controller shell first, making sure it's the right size, then deal with accessory)
I can't justify spending $200 on Touch without having Rift and VR-ready GPU
(and Oculus isn't willing to provide broken and gutted Touch; or at least my contact at Oculus was not willing to ask on my behalf or get me in touch with someone who could answer my question)
quality content makes money
wicked oak
and it got frontpaged on both oculus and steam vr
plus zombies still sell
and its quite cool
south dove
has anyone gotten the pc mirror to be non stereo?
graceful junco
@south dove Non-stereo? Do you mean widescreen?
south dove
just not the double eye mirror
graceful junco
You're talking about the vive, right?
mighty carbon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrQOi6r3cbs << what kind of PC does one need to run this kind of visuals o.O
south dove
and that gives me single cam, but its still tunnel vision
graceful junco
Oh, no idea about rift, sorry.
south dove
well i mean its the same stuff
theres no difference in what im doing between vive and rift
graceful junco
I know steamvr has a setting for one eye, two eye or flat crop mirror. That's independent of UE4.
mighty carbon
@wicked oak ^^
do you think it's a teaser to get people's attention and it won't look like that in VR ?
wicked oak
mode 3 is not warpsed
mode 2 is for a monoscopic eye , but it is a bit warped
mode 3 has NO distortion, but its quite low fov, be VERY careful
this is mode 2
this is mode 1
this is all on mode 3
south dove
mode 3 didnt work for me
graceful junco
@mighty carbon I'm working on a cave scene with a bunch of foliage in it. I can tell you, that it looks better on the PC screen than in VR. Foliage, done with meshes, looks really aliased unless you turn screen percentage and AA up a lot (which is hard). And foliage done with textures looks like textured planes, even if quite far away. But that video looks really nice, if performance works for them.
wicked oak
this are all on oculus
south dove
hmm i guess if the fov is small on the 3 Ill just stick with the distorted 2
thaks
thanks @wicked oak
mighty carbon
@graceful junco I see.. I don't expect for foliage to look realistic in VR, but as long as it's "believable", I am cool with that ๐ I am just pointing out that video has sooo many actors, geometry and materials in it that I can't see it performing well in VR
graceful junco
Nah, seems possible. With FXAA.
Maybe with a 1080 or Titan X even with high screen resolution.
full junco
I'll try to imlement those bloom changes now to reduce it to 1 low res blur
graceful junco
This runs at barely 90 fps on my GTX 970. At 100 % screen resolution and FXAA. I'm not finished optimizing yet. A big part of the rendering cost is due to the water. They don't seem to have water in that video.
mighty carbon
nice, but imagine you add AI and effects and 3D HRTF sound... Probably all that will eat at performance too
graceful junco
Yeah, but AI and sound doesn't run on GPU ๐
full junco
@raven halo did you already implement those bloom changes?
raven halo
I don't think I will get to test it
full junco
why?
raven halo
I have turned off mobileHDR
full junco
ah
I did the stuff now and it appears to work in 2D at least: http://puu.sh/tywjp/f4534aa51b.png
raven halo
that looks very good!
full junco
and wow, my game just looks so much better with bloom enabled again!
already forgot how awesome bloom is
had it disabled for so many months now
raven halo
bloom is very awesome indeed
full junco
bloom is always a post process
with the change bloom now takes 0.24 ms (both eyes together)
wicked oak
protip for VR
disaable all postprocess you can
also it hates translucency
i had a lot of issues with the particle fx in my game
due to overdraw
and i mean stuff lik 5ms to render a fireball
mighty carbon
this kind of bloom doesn't require HDR
I know this for a fact, because that's what we implemented in Storm Engine 2 (Doom 3 BFG) a way before we added HDR
also, this kind of flares would perform really well in VR https://simonschreibt.de/gat/doom-3-volumetric-glow/
mighty carbon
have you played Doom 3 BFG in VR ?
btw, is there a way to make actor render only in one eye ?
granite jacinth
Newb question, 4.14.3, max fps seems to be 50 FPS, on a 1070, that's pretty much a blank map, I used the optimizations from the BP Template Project, are there any other recommendations?
wicked oak
something is wrong there
reinstall engine, create new project
check yoyu arent on a laptop with power saving on
graceful junco
Reboot first, before starting to reinstall software :). Several times I've had performance issues go away by rebooting.
granite jacinth
wintry escarp
doesn't it switch to a mobile optimised bloom for mobile platforms?
granite jacinth
Nah
No idea what it was tbh
I was getting sub 1FPS readings soemtimes lol
Like .75 FPS
POINT 75
I had enabled Forward Rendering(shading), so not sure if there was something in memory
causing conflicts
it's at 90FPS now, so whatever ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
If it happens again, I'll try to properly replicate and submit bug
granite jacinth
@full junco bloom is awesome in 4.15?
full junco
@granite jacinth nothing changed to 4.14 regarding bloom
granite jacinth
You were saying bloom was more efficient
Was wondering what version you were talking about
@full junco
clever sky
Deus Ex VR and Arizona Sunshine with slidey locomotion. Today is a good day in VR land.
digital marlin
DeuxEx VR?
clever sky
Yeah. It's a 'VR experience' i.e. a look around environments affair.
pearl tangle
do the characters even animate or is it just a static render?
clever sky
Got no idea.
But I love Deux Ex environments.
So happy to have a perv on deus ex environments simulator.
pearl tangle
sounds like its just static scenes and you walk around with the joystick, no teleport or other movement. all the negative reviews are people being sick
digital marlin
lolol
Tell you what - the Golf VR Simulator is pretty darn good.
Still needs work obviously, but it's actually pretty solid.
pearl tangle
which 1 is that?
clever sky
Dayum.
Deus Ex VR super rough around the edges.
Scenes were pretty. But well, not exactly optimized for VR.
Real problem is that they implemented a 2014 gamepad style control scheme for VR.
No capsule movement while moving around in roomscale.
Motion relative to head not hands.
No motion controllers visually available (although you can use them).
Both simultaneously immersive and unimmersive.
Pretty environments, but ultimately, couldn't get over the super-meh interactions.
i.e. movement, collision, no hands
Also shiny shaders need a lot more detail for VR. That shit just looks like cling wrap around things.
More detail or more polygons.
pearl tangle
yep sounds like they just threw in the most basic possible implementation of VR without even spending a day to add controller schemes
clever sky
Yeah. Pretty disappointing. Like thanks, it's fun to be able to see awesome environments in 3D. But maybe think about spending a bit of extra time to make it a worthwhile experience, instead of something that'll detract from your own promotion?
'Thanks for viewing! NOW BUY OUR GAME! WE PROMISE IT WON'T BE AS JANKY AS THIS VR EXPERIENCE. Maybe.'
pearl tangle
seems like a lot of guys will jump on that for VR just to show stuff off. Would not take them too much time to implement a few extra pieces to it that make it a really interesting thing for VR.
clever sky
Yeah really. I mean, there's already some work put in to get it to that point.
It doesn't take a shit load more to remove unnecessary collision (if they don't want to move the capsule around)
Or make things more friendly for the intended control scheme (i.e. motion controller + roomscale)
Or take out effects like sun shafts that don't play well in VR.
It's like it was made by a dude sitting at his desk, and his testing amounted to - ok, it runs in display mirror. Excellent.
restive blade
Part of the problem with developing for VR currently is the fact that all the heavy development tools are still bassed in a 2D realm.... and graphics look very different untill you get them into VR systems. The itteration time is far longer
clever sky
Kinda true. Once you get a sense of what works and what doesn't work in VR, you're quicker to pick up on them while in 2D creation too.
i.e. you know that players are more willing and able to stick their heads up close to things
and can scrutinize from more angles.
pearl tangle
but even anybody that has spent any amount of time with a vive or a rift knows that you should have some different control schemes to that
clever sky
But yeah, that.
Oh Arizona Sunshine.
Setting aside the nice graphics and that it's kinda the first big campaign shooter of decent quality.
There are a lot of things wanting. Like the menu. It's abominable.
Guess how you open the menu in that game. And what happens when you do.
Well, if you haven't played it, you couldn't possibly guess at the extent of how wretched it is.
When you're in game... you get a watch on your wrist.
That lets you know your health and stuff. Cool. Put your gun away and press the menu with a short range widget interaction coming from your finger. Also not bad.
Click on the menu - game asks if you're sure you want to go to the menu. Uh, sure.
Click on the menu... and you're booted out of the game and loaded back into the lobby trailer.
Where you have to go and put a virtual game cartridge named 'settings' into their little loader.
How do you exit the menu? You eject the settings cartridge and put the campaign cartridge back in. And then it loads the game from the last checkpoint.
Like... I get that you're proud of your cool gimmicky menu. But maybe that's not the best way to change basic game settings.
Locomotion mode that they implemented today. Copies Onward locomotion. Sensible right? Well, I guess so. But despite how frequently people talk about it, it's kinda poop. Touch to walk, press to run. Easy, what could go wrong?
Well for one thing your forward movement vector is all over the place.
Ideally, I should be able to hold my hand in a relaxed position and locomote easily like that. Nope. If you hold your hand down by your side, the forward vector is now pointing backwards.
Also, the touchpad is a big surface to rest your thumb on.
pearl tangle
i haven't tried it on my vive yet, was just playing with touch and felt too restricted with the forward facing and teleport needing to focus on direction constantly.
keen to play on my vive, was enjoying the game itself in single player
restive blade
actually one of the biggest problems with VR is teliporting... its far to reliant on it
pearl tangle
yeah not a great solution thats for sure, but at least with vive you don't care about the direction change with teleporting so much. like il teleport and then manually turn around. whereas with the touch I can't do that, you have to rotate the teleporter very precisely each time and make sure you are facing the right way
clever sky
@restive blade Definetly trying to change that
Just tried to put my mother through some VR climbing. Didn't go well ๐
But at least she didn't get motion sick despite constant falling.
She didn't quite understand the analogy of using hands to pull yourself around in VR. "mum, grab that corner" "But it's moving towards me now!" "Because you're pulling it towards you!"
"Why am I dropping when I let go?"
To be fair, a good system would train users up to do what I was trying to get her to do.
I kinda just threw her at the climbing wall and said: Goooo!
mighty carbon
@clever sky p00p or not, Arizona Sunshine made $1.4M
clever sky
@mighty carbon It was a great game. It just has a lot of sub-optimal quirks relating to its design choices.
mighty carbon
I see
clever sky
A lot of things that could've been done better. Still good fun.
digital marlin
can interfaces not have more than one function attached to them?
For some reason only one of my functions is showing up when I'm calling the event
pearl tangle
yeah seems like those gimmicky things are good fun to develop, but maybe not so practical
in the new shitty yahoo episodes of community the dean gets a VR system and has to like run around and climb a filing cabinet to get the serial number. then he wants to delete it so he grabs it and goes down to a water fountain and drowns the file to delete it
clever sky
@pearl tangle Climbing is super useful, ironically not for climbing, but for navigating past waist and chest high obstacles.
pearl tangle
hah its not useful if you needed to climb a wall to choose a level then run across the level to press the start button
clever sky
Are you talking about Run VR? ๐
odd garnet
Just probably had 40+ people try our game
And like hundred saw it
If you are a dev and have a local@meet up group.
GO
It was awesome
Also they will find bugs.
pearl tangle
whats your game @odd garnet
@clever sky i was ttalking about gimmicky interactions for the sake of the cool gimmick but it not actually being efficient
there is a reason that we don't put all our stuff on floppy disks anymore, it's easier to just click a folder hah
clever sky
@pearl tangle But I like my open and enter doors to enter a new level metaphor ๐
Seriously though, there's room for well designed physical interactions to perform game functions. But I think they should be used sparsely with good reason.
Like... you don't want to reduce everything to efficiency for efficiency's sake, because the great thing about VR is interaction immersiveness.
So something like Solus project which reduces interactions to hold in hand and point and click to interact with world kinda falls short of that duality (although to be fair that was less of a design choice and more of a practical system limtation).
e.g. in Solus, you get a torch in your hand and you can light things on fire with it... but you don't do so by putting the flame close to the object to light on fire, but by pointing the widget interaction pointer at it and clicking with the trigger.
@odd garnet Did you have to bring all your gear? Sounds great though... wish I was in a bigger city for this kinda thing. @pearl tangle Does Singapore have this sort of VR meetup thing going on?
odd garnet
Yeah Zap... this other guy came in late and fucking took the main stage and we had to change our lighthouse setup for him too
He was a decent guy tho. Is making a game called Molecular where you put elements together to for molecules
Education deal
clever sky
Ah sounds cool.
How many hours of playtesting did you guys get?
Difficult to be in my position. My stuff needs a lot of testing, and basically I've only been able to infer from text based feedback and a couple of uploaded videos.
As well as testing from 10 or so in person.
Still... worked pretty well for a good portion of people!
odd garnet
Like 4?
clever sky
Pretty solid!
odd garnet
We gave out 3D printed gems if people got to the end
odd garnet
Overall great!
I had one guy thank me for having only trackpad movement, one complain about it.
Rest were smiling faces when they took of the headset.
It was cool cause this one girl straight up understood how to play the game and wrecked.
First person to beat our boss
clever sky
Nice.
Yeah, VR is a funny thing. Some people get it without having to learn.
And others are like... this is strange and unusual. But it's like a computer right, so lets apply that computer learning to this ๐
odd garnet
"It's all ones and zeros maaaannnnn"
It was at a bar.
If anyone wants to make some easy money, offer to bring your computer to bars for a cut.
@clever sky taking a break but when I get back; onto climbing mechanics
pearl tangle
@clever sky yeah there is a VR meetup im going to be demoing some stuff at next week actually, seems pretty popular but I have never had time to go before
@odd garnet do you know if that molecular guy has a demo up? I have built something relatively similar to that actually
clever sky
Nice. Let me know how many turn up? ๐
pearl tangle
there are 1000 odd people in the meetup group, i think about 70 have registered for this event
im just going to be showing our showcase stuff in gear vr's and maybe give away a couple dozen cardboard headsets or something. don't really feel like manning a proper Vive setup in a small crowded space
with the skiing game i built that was at a 2 events we had around 100 people a day for 6 days in it. I have go pro footage of nearly all of it, some funny stuff in there hah
clever sky
Nice ๐ Must be fun. Also exhausting ๐
pearl tangle
ah i don't stay there and do it. Just hand over to the clients and sit back in the hotel room watching the analytics to make sure its running ok ๐
clever sky
@pearl tangle Fair call. Sounds better ๐
pearl tangle
yeah you don't want ot be stuck maning a booth for a week straight thats for sure. watch the videos in timelapse and use the captured audio from the staff for blackmail later ๐
native cedar
so in VR it's a good practice to use stationary lights over dynamic
I mean static
I wonder if stationary are actually better than dynamic performance-wise
pearl tangle
stationary lights give better performance than static in some instances.
native cedar
what WHAT
stationary in my imagination is like static+movable performance-wise
now I hear they might be EVEN better than static given the right situations
my mind is officially screwed
pearl tangle
yeah i cant remember the situations off the top of my head but i recall thinking that was weird too
and stationary you can't move but you can change their colour
and stationary can have dynamic shadows which static cant. so you should be using a mixture of those pretty much and never have overlapping movable lights or it kills performance
wicked oak
static all the times you can
VR hates stationary lights with a passion
becouse they are "dynamic"
they calculate all the specular and stuff at runtime, they only have their shadows baked
static lights have zero runtime cost
one thng you can do is use static lights liberally
for fill lighting and that kind of things
and use stationary lights when you need some light to be dynamic and lit dynamic objects well
given the massive resolutions in vr, dynamic lights absolutely murder it
DWVR is 100% static lights
raven halo
dynamic lights should be fine with forward renderer
problem is dynamic lights with shadows
or shadows in general
mighty carbon
Epic said that stationary lights aren't that taxing
I used it in Gear VR
(1 light)
simple vortex
hi people! Do you have any idea how to define collision for VR character? I see that character collision area is roomscale's center
And VR pawn doesnt allow child objects collision
mighty carbon
btw, I don't know if reddit is full of trolls, but there are a lot of people claiming conventional FPS locomotion doesn't make them sick.. Vocal minority ?
void parrot
Ali, I'd personally say a sphere collider on the camera for head collision, The way I have it setup in Unity is basically a sphere collider as a trigger, when it overlaps with anything that has the tag "Environment" it fades your view to black to stop you looking through walls. For body collision, not sure yet. Maybe the average location of the character? So it doesnt freak out and lock to players heads forcing them to have to learn gymnastics to play your game
wicked oak
vocal minority
fps locomition makes 95% of the community barf or something like that
the 5% gets super annoyed becouse they prefer FPS movement and games dont implement it
so yup, vocal minority and a massive annoyance
void parrot
Your talking Onward styled thumbpad motion?
wicked oak
the different kinds
it fits in some games, and doesnt fit in others. The goddamn fps movement squad wants fps movement in EVERYTHING
and complain if its not there
pearl tangle
yeah i spend hours a day in VR and back in DK1 days had no issues with that kind of locomotion. but now with proper positional tracking can't really do it
im not into teleporting around everywhere so much but its a better solution than using a joystick for most people
void parrot
I dont mind it as long as I can move with it
like in H3VR, Ill walk with it and I wont projectile vomit
mighty carbon
Preview #2
Btw, just read in a new leak that new Gear VR is coming with S8
I wonder what new features it will bring
clever sky
I think I fixed the biggest issue a lot of people had with my locomotion system ๐
Walking sensitivity is high!
Doesn't take a lot of movement to 'walk' around now.
clever sky
๐ fair enough!
mighty carbon
@pearl tangle surprisingly enough Galaxy S8 related leaks are abundant, but there is literally no leaks about new Gear VR ๐ฆ
clever sky
Not sure if good thing
pearl tangle
oh yeah but figured everybody knew it was coming
there are some interesting new pieces coming along for gear vr
pearl tangle
hah could be a few bits and pieces
mighty carbon
positional tracking too?! ๐
(outside-in I assume)
if that's indeed a thing, I sure hope we don't have to wait for UE 4.99 to get support for all of that
clever sky
Probably best to dial back your expectations lest they be dashed ๐
Surely positional controllers and positional tracking is the goal of mobile VR... but it doesn't seem like an early mobile VR cycle thing.
mighty carbon
I just would rather not spend $100 on Nolo VR and put it toward S8 and new Gear VR
As if any VR nowadays is convenient
none is, so why mobile VR should be different :/
clever sky
Yeah. For some reason I just never thought to use it on the comment bubbles themselves.
I've been using it on the smaller comment nodes, which has been useful.
raven halo
so how long does it usually take for GearVR to display the overheat warning?
is this to be expected after 10 minutes?
or should it not happen at all?
mighty carbon
depends
S6 overheats quickly on complex scenes
S7 - not so much (and sometimes doesn't overheat)
waiting for funny videos of people crashing stuff around when using these trackers ๐
raven halo
motorstep, is there anything that can be done to avoid it?
mighty carbon
yeah - use minecraft style art
raven halo
lol
mighty carbon
seriously..
there is only so much you can do for S6
supposedly you have to be able to run for 45 min before overheat warning
that's Oculus standard
I am sure that if you don't meed that you still can release in Gallery
raven halo
holy crap
my game is overheating after 10 minutes
and there is nothing...
it's an S6
mighty carbon
well, it's UE4 :/
I haven't tested my game for over 5 min yet, so I can't say much
Does anyone know payout schedule for Oculus? Is it monthly as on Steam or something else ?
odd garnet
@pearl tangle not that I know of. Sorry
full junco
running VR on a passively cooled device is, well, just stupid design ๐
full junco
I don't need one, I don't have a gear vr and my vive is not overheating
mighty carbon
your Vive has no CPU/GPU/RAM/batter inside
full junco
yeah
odd garnet
Make your own cooler using a arduino of raspberry pi zero
Doesn't the vive have an additional USB port for that kinda stuff?
full junco
this thing is still not in 4.15: https://github.com/EpicGames/UnrealEngine/commit/af9d6262473492e4e9850133a128c95663ebb5be
full junco
but theres a new interesting cvar in 4.15 for vive: https://github.com/EpicGames/UnrealEngine/commit/508b231845c94268e71a2506d709f6c2c2103e23
I wonder why all these performance optimizations always are for vive and not for rift
raven halo
has anyone been in touch with microsoft about VR?
they sent an email around a few days ago for those in xbox ID
asking to fill out a form
full junco
vr.SteamVR.UsePostPresentHandoff seems to be very interesting, it reduces render thread time by more than 1 ms I think! http://puu.sh/tzVs8/6780dc9142.png
there I switched from 0 to 1
and you see render thread time got significantly less
wicked oak
on the microsoft thing
it has LOADS of GPU power
but just its shitty CPU but overclocked
good luck to do 90 fps VR (oculus/vive) on a 2 ghz Jaguar cpu
raven halo
I don't see how CPU can be a bottleneck, I mean, it can, but most games will be surely GPU bound.
it's the main difference between a non-VR game and a VR game
it's render thread (due to the 2x draw calls) and gpu
full junco
render thread is CPU, and only runs on 1 core
raven halo
doesn't instance rendering help in this case?
adds 1ms to the GPU
seems doable if you know the limitation from the beginning
full junco
in my game stuff like occlusion culling takes way longer than draw calls I think
and instanced stereo is absolutely not worth the cost here
but some cvar like vr.SteamVR.UsePostPresentHandoff is great of course, 1 ms less RT time for no additional cost
in the commit they write "this call is NOT safe for scenes that have frame-behind GPU work, like SceneCapture components and Widget Components"
but I tested it in a scene with a widget component and it all works fine
wicked oak
ue4 game code is all on 1 thread
so good luck if you have some AI or some complex-y gameplay code with stuff happenning
my 10 npcs with character movement are bottlenecking the game in my ps4 devkit
mighty carbon
that's why Gear VR rules - larger market
wicked oak
yup, the largest
full junco
still a boring market
mighty carbon
how so ?
full junco
you are too limited by hardware and you dont really get much feedback from players
mighty carbon
limited hardware means easier to develop for (unless you are trying to make it look like DOOM or Dishonored 2)
full junco
no, it means harder to develop for
mighty carbon
no
wicked oak
gameplay ideas on look + 1 button are hard
full junco
optimization is what takes most time
mighty carbon
well, if you worked with Quake, then developing for Gear VR shouldn't be an issue
full junco
never played quake or doom
full junco
I'm not playing many games
mighty carbon
@wicked oak not really. You can play FPS with 1 button. Just slow down pace.
full junco
any non-roomscale vr is kinda boring
mighty carbon
(well, mechanics are going to have to change slightly too)
I think if a game worth it, people will purchase gamepads
I wish there were stats for MineCraft on Gear VR. It requires gamepad.
anyhow, I don't have good gamepad for my phone simply because there are no games i consider worth investing my time.
but if there was a game, I'd buy gamepad in a heartbeat
Dreadhalls made decent amount of money on Gear VR and it requires gamepad (I talked to the dev, that's how I know)
lol, look at the GPU requirements for that VR game
GF 600 series
how is that possible ?!
(aside from devs potentially just putting shit into specs section)
golden snow
Hey! Anyone know where the documetation is for the Rift Audio Plugin? My google-fu seems to be failing me.
mighty carbon
go to oculus.com, Developers, Learn, Documentation
golden snow
thanks
mighty carbon
np
wintry escarp
anyone tried gearvr minecraft?
pearl tangle
The "5 millions headsets shipped" number is not really very helpful.
Daily active users is the more useful number. Or total daily hours of use
The most profilfic VR tech is still cardboard. There are at least 100million headsets out there.
granite jacinth
@full junco I know you've been obsessed with CPU/GPU profiling, have you thought about doing a wiki/tutorial on your findings, especially in regards to VR?
full junco
I've been obsessed with CPU/GPU profiling?
full junco
can't remember that, @wicked oak talked a lot more about it recently I think ๐
granite jacinth
Here or forums
Yeah, probably so but, the problem is, there's crap for docs on it
A few videos, but they weren't VR related
full junco
what docs do you need about it? you only need to know how to open the profiler
granite jacinth
Right, but what everything actually means
What those crazy sounding, sometimes abbreviated, names mean
etc etc
How to fix. etc etc
full junco
its usually clear what something means
tell me an example where it isnt clear?
and where google doesnt tell you what it means
I only thought about the GPU profiler, the CPU one isn't as clear, yeah
but you can't write docs or tutorials about that because everyone uses different stuff of the engine, so everyone sees different stuff there thats expensive
and if you dont know what something means, just ask in a fitting channel here and someone surely knows it
pearl tangle
I guess more figuring out what exact things are causing the problems is the thing that the profiler doesn't really explain so much
It's not like it yells out that your mesh is too dense or you have overlapping lights etc
clever sky
It'd be nice if it gave an itemized breakdown of cost based on object in the world.
This BP costs this much. The landscape costs this much. Your skysphere costs that much.
digital marlin
Ahh newbie question
Triggering an event to update a variable doesn't seem to impact the event tick checking for said variable.
So something is "untrue" then I trigger my controller to set it to true (via an interface call, if that matters) it triggers the bool and sets it to true. However that doesn't seem to matter unless I "release" my trigger.
This is odd.
pearl tangle
put some breakpoints on your blueprint nodes and see where its falling apart
granite jacinth
@clever sky @pearl tangle actually...
There's the Blueprint Profiler for BPs ๐
I've only used it a few times, but it tells you what functions are costing you
clever sky
@granite jacinth Really? Cool stuff...
clever sky
Is there documentation on its use?
pearl tangle
@granite jacinth I have never had any problems with blueprints slowing things down at all I don't think, but handy to know for the future
pearl tangle
the only blueprints I do that are crazily slow to do stuff are blutility stuff that I run in the editor
granite jacinth
Yeah, it's very niche for usecase
But it works fine if you're trying to track down something that's slowing your game down
There's a lot of stuff that's barely ever mentioned
Like Network Profiler
that's another good one
Other than those four, I don't know of any other "Profilers"
But I'm sure there's tons, other than the Optimization Viewports
pearl tangle
the gpu profiler was just recently expanded in 4.14 right?
granite jacinth
no...
It's been around since forever
Oh expanded, my bad
Yeah, the live GPU profiler
I actually was trying that out yesterday when I was getting SUB 1FPS
I was like, wtf is causing me to get .75 FPS
pearl tangle
hah. wtf was causing you to get that
granite jacinth
NO IDEA
I just took someone's advice and restarted my PC
I had turned on Forward Shading (rendering)
Not sure if there was something bad in a cache somewhere
But yeah, it was bad
pearl tangle
ah yeah the forward renderer can do some screwy stuff
noble cradle
Gnomon : Epic session on UE4 VR experiences , December 14th ( 214 mins ) โ
[ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5qBd2ulBXw ]
--
GCAP '16 : Epic UE4 VR quick start session , December 20th ( 60 mins ) โ
[ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWIQVTB6km0 ]
granite jacinth
Nice stuff @noble cradle
noble cradle
Hey no worries nice to be here ..!
Haven't watched that last video but saw Chris Murphy here last week ..
They did a breakdown of "Showdown" and VR optimisation that was pretty good !
granite jacinth
Ah nice
noble cradle
Also got into parallax occlusion mapping , and tessellation โ
Which was nice given it was meant to be a introduction to VR type talk ..
granite jacinth
They came to SCAD this week
noble cradle
Need to read back on previous posts here โ
Though regards blueprint performance , "cooking" ( compiling ) them down to C++ is now out of experimental phase ..
Meaning Epic considers that feature shippable and complete. Chris mentioned that it's working well and you should get pretty close to native code performance from cooked blueprints ..
granite jacinth
Yup
I have pretty much everything turned on now
Everything builds just fine, which is always good
Until I forget to check out my binaries
noble cradle
Ha -ha had a nightmare project recently โ
Where I built the project off an old UE4.13 prototype with some custom widget stuff ;
That wouldn't compile properly and basically remade it all in 4.14 to get it all packaged ok ..
full junco
there are still bugs with BP nativization, I see fixes all the time on github
noble cradle
Hmm ok
full junco
and c++ is cooler anyways ๐
noble cradle
Yeah , got to find some time to learn that !
What are you guys working on re: UE and VR ?
granite jacinth
Me personally, I am working on two separate UE4 projects for school, One TechArt with Material Transitions and Particles
The other one is a 1v1 Vive Multiplayer Action-Arcade Platformer
Then I have my personal projects and one work project
One day, probably when I am dead, I will get a good night's sleep.
pearl tangle
plus yyou have to actually play games and whatnot inbetween too right @granite jacinth thats where I tend to lose a lot of time hah
granite jacinth
@pearl tangle sigh..
I wish, I try to, especially for research. The most games I play are during my game jam streams.
Oh, I forgot gamejams participation for other stuff I do in UE4
pearl tangle
i haven't had time to participate in 1 for like 18 months, and i never actually had time to finish 1
granite jacinth
There's just not enough time in the day
You should try to get back at it
I personally feel that each jam I grow more as a dev
Probably has to do with my crap long term memory ๐
My short term somehow packs it all in there, condenses it, and retains for future use in long term slots
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
pearl tangle
oh yeah i learnt heaps back when i did try them. I also have another developer and 3D modellers that can do stuff now in my team too. just whenever they come up seems to be right at the wrong time
granite jacinth
It would be nice to see more VR games @pearl tangle
Sadly, I am usually doing jams with remote devs and they don't have VR setups
Which is what's going on with my 1v1 multiplayer thing at school anyway
the other 3 don't have a vive, one has a rift though
The school has a vive we can use to test MP parts so that's always nice
pearl tangle
hah we have 5 vives here and 2 rifts so no worries there
snow raft
Wheres the VR gloves already
pearl tangle
there are a few different 1s around. Too annoying to use compared to a controller for a lot of things
anybody else do their vive tracker applications yet?
wicked oak
exept all gloves are going to fail
at least short-term
becouse they arent official, and due to that, no dev is going to bother implementing quality glove controls
something like tracked guns or a bat is much simpler to make in a game engine, but the implementation of gloves needs a few things
like gesture recognition and physics and all that fluff
pearl tangle
and i can't use them at events and stuff because of hygeine and they take too long to take on and off
wicked oak
yup
they are cool, but until they are "official" maybe in gen 2-3, nobody is going to grab them
only arcades or things like investigation
where they make tailored aplications for a specific thing
think an app against parkinson, or an app to lean sign lenguage
but not general gaming
even the simple tracked guns or similar are going to have a hard time, and they are super cheap and super simple
if i made a vr gun tracker, i would pay the Onward guy to implement it
pearl tangle
yeah for enterprise stuff I am looking into them, but they are also going to be used in combination with the vive trackers and custom arduino controllers and whatnot
wicked oak
a game like Onward would be incredible with a omni treadmill + gloves + tracked gun
pretty sure the US military would love that shit
pearl tangle
VR gloves would be awesome for playing something like elite dangerous with a full custom cockpit that matches the vr
wicked oak
not quite
pearl tangle
they have been doing that for 10 years or so now
wicked oak
well, if you combine them with a hotas, maybe
pearl tangle
costs like $100k per kit though
wicked oak
using a air joystick feels SUUUUUPER bad
pearl tangle
yeah im saying you make a full 100% replica of the VR cockpit
wicked oak
then its awesome
pearl tangle
physical replica of it like a flight sim
wicked oak
but fairly infeasible
pearl tangle
so you have to use the proper buttons and levers and whatnot
wicked oak
a possibility would be that the hotas manufacturers add a tracking puck
so you slap one of those and it appears in the exact same place while on the cockpit
pearl tangle
it's doable. $100k and I could build it. maybe for an arcade over here i might convince somebody
wicked oak
but its still too much hardware
it would be pretty much perfect inmersion
for a thing like Elite Dangerous
there is no gravity in space anyway
pearl tangle
well you should still have g forces
wicked oak
but its pretty much the dream setup for a space game
a moving cockpit, + tracked gloves + hotas on the same place as the ship controls + high quality VR
pearl tangle
yeah thats where I am lucky in that I can build fully custom stuff for my things. working on a launch 1 for the S8 for huge event ๐
snow raft
I just wanted gloves for a snowball fight game ๐
Its abit dangerous to get people to throw things when they are holding something they cant see, thats why those safety straps for motion controls exist
It doesnt really need to be a full articulated glove, a motion tracker in the palm could be enough for the basics
The world seems hung up on holding things with buttons, always with the buttons ๐
๐๐ป this is the international sign of the enter key ๐
I'll be truly happy when I (can spell) get a Blueprint wand so I can be a real wizard
clever sky
Buttons allow for tactile feedback and motor control mastery.
They're very familiar to us. Easy to use.
And provide useful functionality.
You'd only get better with gloves once gloves provide robust haptics.
and even then, it's not entirely clear that people would prefer to slip on gloves than grab controllers.
snow raft
I think we have a place where robust haptics is at its best, its called reality ๐
clever sky
Yes, that doesn't really help in this situation though.
snow raft
well if I had to put motor control mastery of button presses against say shooting a basket ball I know which one I would consider in higher regard ๐
clever sky
Ok.
snow raft
It still amazes me how Pool games are popular, its a reasonably simple game to copy but the haptics have never been anywhere near close, there are some games which do well but its far easier in the game to have a steady hand that in actually playing pool.
clever sky
Why should it amaze? Pool is fun, computer game pool is fun. VR pool is as close a facsimile to the real thing as we can get currently. And of course, it's still fun.
Comparing VR to reality will leave you wanting for a long long time. But accepting that VR is immersive and compelling in its own right allows you to engage in the fun now.
snow raft
I dunno, simulations of something I can do in reality dont really interest me
clever sky
Well, that's fair enough. But the flipside is, even if you can play pool in real life, it's more convenient in many circumstances to play VR pool. A more obvious example would be racing cars.
snow raft
I like car racing games because I can drink beer driving down the wrong side of the road singing my favourite tune at the top of my lungs while being chased by cops
I mean, I suppose I could do that in reality ๐
clever sky
You can go race a car on a track in the real world, but it's expensive and time prohibitive.
And like you point out, you can do things in VR that don't have the same consequences in reality. For something as mundane as pool - don't need to have access to a pool table, or have it take up space in your home. Don't have to set up, or chase balls. Have access to AI opponents.
snow raft
Yeah I understand it for that, or like say simulation of a space shuttle launch, that comes with a set of risks someone even with sufficient cash reserves may not be willing to take
clever sky
Anyway, this conversation was tangential to the controller vs hand tracking discussion that spurred it.
snow raft
Its amazing how complex the simplest games can be, like pong, in reality there are so many little things than can affect that ball, input is only the tip of the ice berg
clever sky
Hand tracking is great, but at this point can only serve as supplementary, due to the lack of haptics
Due to the lack of muscle memory activated functionality. The lack of directional input for movement, etc.
snow raft
Yeah its unfortunate that we will still end up with peripheral madness with VR
clever sky
Maybe. We'll see how it goes.
Regarding pong/table tennis - it's pretty compelling in VR!
snow raft
Well I dont think the touch controllers will be suited to everything, a racing game as an example is probably still best played with a wheel, stick and pedals even in VR
clever sky
Of course.
But if it's a comparison between hand tracking and controllers, controllers win in that situation too.
snow raft
those are still very expensive on their own too for good ones
clever sky
Yeah. Niche market.
Will stay expensive.
But at least they're widely supported by driving games.
So they're worthwhile if you enjoy the genre.
wicked oak
in Spain you can findd PSVR in any store
they have more stock than what they need
after all, spanish salaries arent that high, and we are a bunch of casuals
clever sky
Need to get me on that PSVR money train.
wicked oak
DWVR not for sure. but im looking to release VRMultigames ultimate edition in asia too
but gotta have to localize it of course
clever sky
I think Sony will be quite interested if I can get this freedom locomotion stuff working well for PSMove ๐
wicked oak
it wont
snow raft
I suppose I could get a PSVR since I got a PS4 now, not sure if there will be enough games
clever sky
And it does!
snow raft
Its gotta be better than the barren Oculus store ๐
clever sky
@wicked oak why do you say that?
clever sky
I can get it working with forward.
wicked oak
but with such an small tracking space?
clever sky
forward facing only. Hell, I can use it seated.
wicked oak
im designing PSVR expecting people to be seated
uhm, if it works well seated, might do the trick
clever sky
Yeah it does ๐ Most people were only interested in CAOTS
wicked oak
?
clever sky
dash step = dashing teleportation steps.
Oh yeah.
That is a thing
Meanwhile PCVR has honeyselect.
And others.
dusk vigil
Q: VR + Particles + Physics : Is it possible to make particles ( currently using a vector field system to make some nice effects thanks to @upbeat kestrel 's python script ) react to physics objects more than just collision, like being able to swipe them with VR tracked controllers to really get them to fly about from the hand waving at them?
upbeat kestrel
hey simrak
the only way to affect particles with something other than collision that could work for that is to use vector fields attached to limbs
and enable global vector field influence in the particle system
we do that a lot on this project http://www.magicdancemirror.com/ to have your movement affect existing particles
use vector field components with a fitting vector field, attach them to your motion controllers
dusk vigil
Thank you! I will investigate
upbeat kestrel
@dusk vigil one important note: only GPU particles can be affected by vector fields
dusk vigil
All righty
Some sneak peeks of what I'm up to : )
Very early prototype still, hoping to hit the stage where I can start showing it to potential investors in about a month
We are using Perception Neuron mocap suit and Hunter's Gesture VR plugin as the essential core of the game
upbeat kestrel
cool ๐
dusk vigil
So far I have been warming up to Unreal quite nicely, just started learning it about 3 months ago
mighty carbon
lol, did you read comments to that Kotaku article ?
so many VR naysayers
still comparing it to 3D TV and 3D glasses
snow raft
you mean VR isnt 3D glasses ๐
mighty carbon
snow raft
VR suit, I wonder when you'll be able to get full wirework rigs for VR
https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/AAEAAQAAAAAAAAOZAAAAJDc0NjI1MTgyLTZlZDctNDA2Mi05YmY3LWU5ODI0ZmU0NzgxNg.jpg lol wow they wernt far off with this one
Thats Lawnmower man 1992
mighty carbon
does anyone know payout schedule for Oculus ?
(monthly like Steam or quarterly as consoles)
mighty carbon
lol, this chat is getting more dead every day :/
mighty carbon
it would be nice if racing wheels and flight sticks work on Android. Gear VR racing/flight game with proper controls would be awesome.
something like this https://community.infinite-flight.com/t/joystick-support-in-infinite-flight/13715
zenith charm
Yeah, why is this so dead, where are the devs! hah
mighty carbon
missed opportunity btw
just imagine how cool it would be to make racing or flying game for Gear VR and use actual steering wheel or flight stick ?!?!
@wicked oak ^^^^
wicked oak
sweet
some documentation at last
so it is compatible with instanced stereo too
neat
too bad its 10X0 gpus only
wicked oak
becouse its nvidia only
ue4 really dislikes platform specific stuff
if its like Ps4 only, or Xbox only, its ok
but on PC, it has to be consistent no matter if you are AMD or Nvidia
mighty carbon
that's not possible
why not to have a render path that kicks in on Nvidia, but not working on AMD. When AMD steps up the game and releases something similar, Epic would just add render path for AMD.
There will never be a unified solution until there are several vendors on the market
mighty carbon
sooo, apparently NOte 8 will have 4k screen and some enhancements for VR
I hope it doesn't mean yet another Gear VR model :/
odd garnet
I think we found a really hacky way of doing Mixed Reality
it's untested but in principle it should work
Get your green screen and everything set up, get your camera in a fixed position.
Then using networking spawn a Spectator pawn that is locked in place relative to your player
match the spectators view to your camera view
green screen in the spectator pawn's view
boom
mixed reality
mighty carbon
mighty carbon
wow, Epic isn't going to update Oculus Mobile SDK in UE 4.15 to ver. 1.0.4 ๐ฆ
WTF?!?!?!?!
fresh laurel
๐ฆ
odd garnet
Wow its almost like Vive > Oculus??
mighty carbon
@odd garnet why?
digital marlin
I don't think this place is 'dead' just not as busy as it was when it first started
FYI I have 79 messages in here in the last 24 hours.
pearl tangle
@odd garnet thats how most people and how epic have actually recommended to do mixed reality. they don't think it's a good idea to run a single machine for it and networked is the best way
Epic has a better relationship with HTC. They put me in touch with the head of tracking at HTC and within a few hours the guy had setup a meeting with me. Takes months to get anything out of Oculus support
snow raft
Just PM Zuck on FB ๐
full junco
@mighty carbon that note 8 thing sounds interesting. not for gear vr, mobile 4k rendering won't work for a long time, but it means there are 4k screens available for desktop VR!
odd garnet
@pearl tangle is there anyone else who does it?
I'd love to be able to follow footsteps rather then re invent the wheel
That said; when I do it I'll show everyone and help if I can
pearl tangle
@odd garnet there is a bunch of stuff up on the udn on that and there are a couple a PRs on GitHub that you can grab and merge in your build that will help