which will move the collision capsule
#virtual-reality
hard light
hmm, plugin is also worth looking at
hard light
cheers for that, I'll look at the plugin - does it have it's own demo setup, or is it built on the tamplate do you know?
hard light
cheers ^^
clever sky
GL!
hard light
thanks ๐
mighty carbon
safe herald
short locust
It's great, I think Big Screen has other features though. Depends on what you use it for.
mighty carbon
can I play DOOM 2016 on a massive virtual screen with that app ?
spring pond
you can do that in steam anyway
steam has a big picture VR mode, its not great tho, res of the screen is too low
mighty carbon
so I figured it should be better in Virtual Desktop, right ?
spring pond
I'm not sure what the difference would be, the res of the HMD display is the same?
Look what just arrived
heady parrot
preorder or dev?
mighty carbon
๐
spring pond
All the triggers feel much nicer (and are way more quiet) than the engineering samples we had
no, a freebie from Oculus
heady parrot
sweet ๐ yeah they are quite a bit nicer and haptics are solid now
spring pond
nice, our engineering samples had really loud haptics
heady parrot
yeah the actuators are one of the biggest recent changes
winged shale
๐ฆ
mighty carbon
how many they already gave you ?
wicked oak
one thing, @spring pond . Have you put a game on oculus for store review?
2
tthe thing is that they went wrong, and sent me 4 headsets
but only 2 touch sets
so i have this 2 extra headsets that i have little use for
mighty carbon
send 1 Rift back, get another set of Touch ๐
wicked oak
have any of you here sent games for oculus store review?
mighty carbon
not yet
wicked oak
im thinking if i should send DWVR for review now, given that it takes a good while
but its only at alpha state
spring pond
We have put something up for review
wicked oak
i sent VRMultigames as basically final state a couple days ago
spring pond
We only got one headset and 2 touches (we asked for the second touch) and we bought 3-4 Oculus headsets
wicked oak
but im thinking if i should send DWVR for review already, or wait
spring pond
I think we got like 6-7 vives from valve/HTC tho
wicked oak
really??
holy shit last time i asked them they told me to fuck off
and thats with VRMultigames getting 40k downloads
spring pond
we haven't got a vive for free since it launched, these were all Pre's
wicked oak
i also asked for a vive pre, and for oculus touch
much sooner
before summer
but of course i got ignored
to be fair, i didnt even have a game released
spring pond
so, if you put your thing up for review its not going to come out for a while. There was a cutoff date for touch launch (we missed it) and so everything is in "lockdown" right now
spring pond
also their process is much longer than Valve, they actually send it to a 3rd party company to test, i think they say 2 week turnaround
wicked oak
i would have sent VRMultigames
spring pond
yea, the cutoff date for Dec 6 was like Oct 28 or something
spring pond
we are coming out a week or two after launch
wicked oak
damn, i could have sent vrmultigames for release easily
spring pond
so, if you push it to steam steamvr works well with the touch.
spring pond
so the thing is, we are kinda fine with missing the 6th, your are going to get drowned out by 1st party titles and vive ports. We are a tiny little app and so we'd just loose all the eyeyballs to medium and the other cool apps. We'll launch a couple weeks later when everyone is burnt out on the bundled/free experiences
wicked oak
i was aware of that with DWVR
spring pond
Touch support has been in steam VR for months
wicked oak
for VRmultigames i just wanted to release in both stores at once
for the touch support
but what i said, should i add DWVR for review sooner. or wait till is basically finished?
mighty carbon
heady parrot
If you arent ready for feedback and criticism and game isnt finished then no reason to submit
spring pond
@wicked oak So, we're a bit special, but we often push something up to get the first "your app is OK, content is fine, we don't see any blockers" then we patch it with final content and release
we have a special thing about our app tho, that we expect to hear feedback about
wicked oak
@heady parrot thats pretty much what i mean. The game is stable and has OK performance, but its still thin in content
i need to implement the 3rd map, fix a fuckton of bugs, add 1 weapon and 2 spells, more enemies, and a bunch of challenges/minigames
heady parrot
well what do you expect to get out of it? if performance isnt great then you will get feedback on that right away
wicked oak
so its fine to send for review a version that is not content complete?
i mean, i could fix current bugs, and send the build with the 2 maps
thats more or less what i mean
spring pond
you may want to wait until its more complete than it sounds
If the patch changes enough they may want to QA it again. To be honest I handled a lot of our steam stuff, but a coworker is doing most of Oculus and Viveport
heady parrot
vblance I recommend you reach out to your devrel person and simply see what he thinks
wicked oak
very well, then i send it when its a lot more finished
i probably should have sent VRMultigames as a gallery app
i uploaded it as a free game
mighty carbon
@wicked oak Oculus Store has release channels (alpha, beta, rc, release, etc.). So you submit to one of those, you get to have people accessing your build privately (whoever you give access to).
(basically like beta branch on Steam)
wicked oak
but you need to add that people
i almost have the VRMultigames 4.14/oculus/vive build ready. For the launch the 6th
this for the steam store version
mighty carbon
you can give keys to people who you want to participate in closed alpha/beta
the point is that you have to submit for review before it makes into any channel
create your account with Oculus, contact Cybereality on Oculus forums, show him video, ask to set up release channels for you and go from there.
wicked oak
i can give keys already for the Steam version
and both versions will be similar
only difference is that steam uses steam achievements and leaderboards and mp, and oculus their own
mighty carbon
sure, but what if people want to play on Oculus platform?
wicked oak
they get the game there
mighty carbon
It's like saying "it works on Windows, why test it on Linux/maxOS ?!"
wicked oak
i would like to make it compatible beetween both versions, but i cant
Lots of games have Steam/Oculus version
and they arent compatible
like a serious amount of them
DWVR already passed "preliminary" review on Ps4
but that one doesnt need build, just send a video and a game design document
just validation to give the greenlight to the game concept
just in case you want a game where you play mechahitler and murder robojews or something like that
mighty carbon
aye, but it just common sense to build and test on the release platform (not to mention Oculus has their own achievements and whatnot)
plus it takes time to get reviewed on Oculus
mighty carbon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aNjpWSMztg << I would not want to experience that opening scene
are those number anywhere close to reality ?
especially this "Gear VR headsets are looking to surpass 2.3 million in sales in 2016"
hard light
lol, kosmonaut opening scene - with real vomit and nausea!
mighty carbon
2M Gear VR users... It's a damn sizable market
hard light
it is if they're spending money
mighty carbon
well, if 1% spends $1.49 on your product, your profit will be ~$20k
normal thorn
if 100% spent $100 you'd have $200,000,000!
mighty carbon
and I am sure it's pretty realistic scenario, assuming 2M+ users is realistic number
hard light
haha^
the point is, don't look to the ownership numbers as an indication of the size of the market
for all we know, 1/4 of those people own the device because it was bundled with their phone but have never really used it, and the remaining 75% have no intention of ever spending a penny
if 1% of all the users on Steam bought a game for ยฃ20, I'd be filthy fucking rich
the reality is, only a tiny percentage of the 125 million active users actually spend any real money
mighty carbon
I talked to at least 2 Gear VR devs before Oculus said 1M people had Gear VR. Those devs said you can make solid complimentary income on Gear VR and make living if you release 2 project within 1 year
I wouldn'
hard light
congrats on your anecdotal evidence
mighty carbon
I wouldn't be concerned as much with numbers as with how pain in the ass it is to develop for Gear VR and limitation it imposes on content
hard light
this is also true to be fair
but if people are buying content, it's worth looking at
if they're not, then that 2 million install base is pretty worthless
mighty carbon
it's a young and unsaturated market. I can see making some money with decent projects.
they are buying content on gear vr
hell, I bough a few things there
hard light
how do you know people are buying things?
mighty carbon
Gunjack, that I didn't play and some relaxation app that was a turd
so, I spent $12 total
hard light
thing is, I see a huge amount of press about how many GearVR devices are out there
but nobody ever seems to publish sales statistics, which does make me very wary
actually, I can think of a classic example of hardware sales versus software sales
Kinect on the 360 had the highest attachment rate of any peripheral in history - it sold millions of units, very quickly
something like 1 in 3 consoles had a Kinect
but the majority of the games tanked - turns out people bought bundles or the hardware, decided they didn't actually like it much, and left the platform to rot
tbh, I don't even know why they included Kinect with Xbox One, there aren't even any games for it, including first party.
cobalt relic
Don't forget that 99% of mobile users don't ever give a cent to anyone
So the GearVR market is that much smaller
mighty carbon
Mobile != mobile VR
I can't stand mobile games
but I love Gear VR
so, when a worthy title pops up at desktop price, I will have no questions about it
as a matter of fact, I saw a lot of whining on Reddit about pricing initially. Now no one says a peep.
mighty carbon
So perhaps those whiny cheap Android gamers dropped off the market
hard light
(or maybe you are the entire market, tbh I don't know many people who buy GearVR software) #anecdotal
cobalt relic
We're all guessing, anyway
My 2cts is that GearVR is tied to an ecosystem that is overwhelmingly non-paying
vs people who spent $900 on a headset
But that's just me guessing ๐
hard light
given that Gunjack is supposed to be a flagship experience, that is pretty poor
mighty carbon
it's pretty, but poor gameplay
hard light
if these are the top selling products, this suggests to me that there isn't much of an audience for GearVR
mighty carbon
you mean, paid audience
wicked oak
ive heard cardboard guys getting 100k+ downloads
winged shale
some paid daydream games have 5k+ install base
hard light
really?
wicked oak
already?
mighty carbon
which ones?
hard light
I find that kind of surprising
wicked oak
isnt daydream on ONLY the Pixel phone?
hard light
although I guess the number of products available is tiny
so more or less everyone that owns Daydream may well have bought it xD
winged shale
I was just in the daydream store thing and it mentioned it on one of the stats for some game where you're a bullet
but no it's not only Pixel
hard light
there are two phones that support it
wicked oak
wich others?
winged shale
more phones are meeting the standard every day
hard light
Pixel and Moto Z
cobalt relic
So Gunjack did $100k of sales minus 30%, which is basically one man's year salary. If that's a flagship game, it's dreadful
winged shale
Moto Z, S7 will probably get support when it's on 7.1
hard light
@cobalt relic - yeah, we couldn't afford to do a GearVR product for such a low return
winged shale
also Daydream is super improved compared to cardboard and even GearVR
mighty carbon
let's face it - piracy on Android is rampant. So most of those installed "paid" numbers could be pirates. Gear VR is much stronger DRM system.
hard light
once you take all the taxes and other fees out of it, you don't have an awful lot left
mighty carbon
@winged shale how is it "super improved" compare to gear VR ?
winged shale
@mighty carbon no, no, NO. not true. Install base comes from people downloading it from the play store
it has a frigging motion controller
mighty carbon
meh
winged shale
says the guy who hasn't even tried out motion controls
cobalt relic
Btw, 11k Gunjack on 2M means 0.5% attach rate
At this point, developing for Wii U is a better investment
hard light
developing for Windows Mobile may be a better investment....
winged shale
I'm banking on the market expanding + more free Daydream Views flooding the market
wicked oak
hey, if you develop for WiiU you can convince nintendo to just get you Switch stuffs
heady parrot
VR devs for the past 3 years havent been making games for the market available, but for the market they are hoping will be there
hard light
battery life was about 6 hours with smartphone features enabled, and you couldn't install a damned thing on it
heady parrot
same is true even today
cobalt relic
2M is already a big market
hard light
true to a limited extent
cobalt relic
The attach rate is crucial
winged shale
also I and a lot of others got a $50 Google Play credit for something that Google messed up during Pixel pre-order
hard light
well, as we've demonstrate 2 million isn't the market
it's just the number of people who own it and have tried it
if they ain't buying, they ain't the market
cobalt relic
Yeah, well you could call that a market but sure
What i'm saying is, if you already sold 2M of them, that's a lot
heady parrot
a lot of gear owners try it then dont actively use it
cobalt relic
But it's pointless if people don't use it
I sort of confirms my guess that GearVR users will be as cheap as Android users
heady parrot
for most people its still a novelty, there are no games that pull them to want to use it every day
winged shale
I suspect that the more open Daydream platform will fix some of this. It's a very simple thing: it's easy to wash, it's not made of goofy hard plastic, you don't have to plug anything in, it works with phones cross-manufacturer, and it looks pretty good. Also I already use mine every day for youtube, etc.
hard light
you've got to remember that a very significant number of GearVR owners got it bundled with their phones
they didn't buy into the ecosystem, they just got given it as a freebie
mighty carbon
lol, I don't know how you guys look at it, but hypothetically speaking, if I sell my experience for Gear VR at $1.49 to 11k users, after Oculus takes their share I will have $11k in my pocket. That's a very good amount of cash I wouldn't have gotten otherwise.
hard light
you won't have $11k, because royalties, taxes, and other fees
mighty carbon
taxes come after write offs ๐
cobalt relic
11k buys you what, 2 months of work ? 3 ?
hard light
also, for three months work for two people, you're looking at a pittance in return
heady parrot
yeah I dont find that to be a lot of money ๐
mighty carbon
so say I get PS4 dev kits, Rift + Touch and hire someone to code prototype.. I only pay taxes on what's left of $11k
hard light
you'd make more money working 16 hours a week flipping burgers
that's not how it works
hard light
our studio costs nearly 11k to run a month, lol
heady parrot
you could hardly sustain one dev for a month in the US for that
mighty carbon
yes @hard light , that's how it works for sole proprietors in USA
wicked oak
with me, one professional artist, and 4-5 interns
and i say that becouse ive done the math
hard light
actually, II'm thinking in GBP versus USD, it's more than 11k
wicked oak
i can get an office for 600 or something, add a buffer for electricity and similar and thats 1000 at month. 3 months being 3k euros on the office
cobalt relic
To push my point, I think any VR platform can be a successful with only a few millions users (compared to consoles with 10 to 100M). A 5M market can be very big if say, 10% of users by your 10$ game. That's the power of attach rate, you've got $3M in bank after taxes and fees. You can pay people for a year or two.
wicked oak
we still have 7k
hard light
if we spent just three weeks making a GearVR product that returned that little, we'd still make a loss
wicked oak
Vive attach rate is HUUGe
cobalt relic
Of course 10% attach rate is Nintendo-esque. Not everyone does that. But a platform like VR, with enthusiasts ? It's possible
wicked oak
they buy EVERYTHING
hard light
yeah, Vive attach rate is pretty good from what I can tell
mighty carbon
@wicked oak why have office overhead?! o.O
heady parrot
and now you know why there are very few big budget games in VR still ๐
wicked oak
basically the extra costs of electricity and the like
hard light
the reason for that of course, is that people actually bought into the ecosystem as enthusiasts
niche audiences spend the most money
just look at things like train simulator games
wicked oak
you can just see all the small scale VR games for 3-5 dollars
they actually sell a few hundreds
hard light
people will pay $70 for a single DLC featuring one type of train
wicked oak
but they are done by 1 dev or 2 in a couple weeks
i should be doing that, i dont know wtf am i doing trying to do a higher profile game
cobalt relic
I think Vive has the most potential because good sales + great attach rate. PSVR will have better sales, good attach rate. Those are platforms you could make millions on
YOu can't make a million on GearVR
hard light
those are platforms people are already making millions on
cobalt relic
Like ever
wicked oak
good that im on both ๐
hard light
not many people, but it is happening
heady parrot
psvr is the biggest market already
cobalt relic
Shit I meant Gear
wicked oak
with PSVR launch my game would be the only one of its kind
even the "bad " numbers
its already 2-3 times the PC Vr market
nearing 1 million in sales
hard light
PSVR hasn't been out long enough to make that assessment
it could just be another Kinect
an expensive peripheral that everyone rushes out to buy and never uses
hard light
so did Kinect
cobalt relic
PSVR already has the market, so they just need a chunk of really good games
heady parrot
I like the comfort of the PSVR, but I like it the last of the major 3
hard light
I mean, there are something like 35 million of the damned things out there, and hardly any games actually broke even
hard light
I worked on Fable for the kinect - probably one of the most polished games on the platform, and it made a HORRENDOUS loss
heady parrot
yeah I feel sorry for anyone that shipped a product for the Kinect
mighty carbon
Kinect was a crappy input device ๐
hard light
a crappy input device that sold 35 million units ๐
mighty carbon
you just said earlier it sold that much due to bundles
hard light
a large number were sold due to bundles, yeah
mighty carbon
and if it was a great input device, at least a great niche input device like HOTAS, it would still be around, people would still be making software for it
heady parrot
my team here did very cool research with the Kinect and Kinect 2, but it simply wasnt good enough ๐ a lot of limitations in both hardware and software, but the potential was enormous
mighty carbon
also, Gear VR was bundled for a short period of time. It's not like Samsung always bundled it.
hard light
GearVR is still being bundled over here
mighty carbon
2016 version (all black or navy blue, whatever color they call it) ?
I know that 2015 version was bundled, but not IE1 or IE2
hard light
blue one I think, haven't really looked into it
mighty carbon
so maybe working on something for Gear VR full time isn't worth it, as a supplemental income generator it might be valuable (especially for lone devs)
I wonder if a killer software would turn things around and entice people into buying Gear VR (along with that software)
cobalt relic
Buying Gear isn't the issue
With decent attach rates, Gear developers would make millions
The issue is the fact that apparently no Gear user has ever bought anything
mighty carbon
lies
cobalt relic
:/
mighty carbon
look at the paid apps
cobalt relic
You said 11K sales on top of what, 3M ?
cobalt relic
We're talking 0.3% here
mighty carbon
still money
cobalt relic
That qualifies as no one
mighty carbon
0.0% is no one
or 0.001% is no one
I think simply because there is no compelling game/experience on Gear VR people don't spend money on what's on the Store.
or 3M of users don't give a damn about VR and no matter what you offer them, they won't buy it, even for $1
cobalt relic
We're talking about a revenue of around $8k after the fees, not counting the cost of the hardware you work on. I mean, in France that doesn't even buy you two months of development time for one person. I'm sorry but that's a product no one is buying.
mighty carbon
read what I said above please
if you do it full time, maybe so
if not, $8k isn't something you find easily in US.. Maybe France has greener grass
cobalt relic
It doesn't : it just requires you to pay taxes for social security etc
Like most European countries
My point is, current GearVR sales make the device a no go for any commercial entity
mighty carbon
also, what kind of math you did for 11k of users and Gunjack's price? 11k x $7.99 = $87,890.00
cobalt relic
Yeah, that's 80k
mighty carbon
still not worth making stuff ?
heady parrot
where did you get that 11k in the first place? ๐
Im pretty sure we've sold more than that
mighty carbon
well, 11k is now many people rated it
I don't see why someone who didn't buy the game would rate it
heady parrot
a lot of people never rate apps/games they buy
mighty carbon
so, I think it's safe to say at least 11k of people bought Gunjack
right
but, 11k number is all I have available
if 50k people bought Gunjack, even better
just saying, Gear VR isn't a horrible platform as several folks here make it out to be
normal thorn
mighty carbon
Also, Oculus has several funds for Gear VR developers (apps/games; movies)
Steam Spy gets Gear VR stats now? I highly doubt that
clever sky
I like this market talk.
heady parrot
Gunjack is also sold for SteamVR, those are the numbers from there prob.. not Gear
normal thorn
oh no thats not gear
clever sky
But as far as making money goes. My solution is simple. Don't make trash, make it gud ๐
mighty carbon
http://store.steampowered.com/app/410570/ < yeah.. I didn't know it was on PC too
clever sky
VR still very nascent, and huge room to innovate and establish new ground
mighty carbon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYGqfv0IO_Q << when is this coming to UE4 ? o.O
clever sky
Solo/small dev teams can still push the boundaries sufficiently to pique the interests of the VR enthusaists
Change of topic; do you prefer to have your shadows show in VR or not? Specifically HMD and controller/hand shadows
mighty carbon
@heady parrot any chance to spill the beans about sales numbers of Gunjack, using 11k as a reference point ? ๐
heady parrot
sorry I cant ๐ I dont even know up to date numbers
mighty carbon
well, like several times more? slightly more?
mighty carbon
ah, ok
thanks
so, let's speculate !
"are way higher" could mean 20k units sold
btw, 7.99 wasn't always the price. It was more than $10 at the beginning
but I'll use 7.99
cobalt relic
You can probably count 50k units, 10$ and have 500k
Which is around 300 after fees and taxes
mighty carbon
so, $159,800.00 - 30% to Oculus - $7,990.00 to Epic
cobalt relic
So it's great
mighty carbon
$103,870.00 into your pocket
so, if that's not worth to develop for, get the hell out of here ๐ I don't know what you did for living before game dev, but you shouldn't have given up that job
/s
mighty carbon
do it part time
heady parrot
- if you make something great, you can probably get the hardware vendors to chip in
mighty carbon
and when you add 1 more 0 to that number, go full time
cobalt relic
But like I said earlier, if that's the best the plaform has to offer, it's not enough
mighty carbon
Is Steam a good platform, @cobalt relic ?
cobalt relic
It is
mighty carbon
so badly saturated that a lot of games, high quality games, don't even break even
cobalt relic
Sure ๐
mighty carbon
and I am not talking about folks with name and money for PR
I am talking about garage indies
cobalt relic
But 20 or 50K sales on Steam is extremely common
mighty carbon
said who?!
cobalt relic
SteamSpy would be a start
mighty carbon
maybe it was common in 2008 - 2010, but not now
cobalt relic
Man, I'm shipping a Steam game in a few months, so I've only studied my own market (space sims)
But I found a dozen space sims that sold around 100k or more
heady parrot
oohh space sim guy ๐ /wave
mighty carbon
so, you look at FTL and say "hmm... that game made good sales, I am in", right ?
cobalt relic
No
I look at a dozen space sims that make 100k sales and I think, maybe I can grab 5k or 10k
cobalt relic
How much can you realistically earn on GearVR if the best of the best, highly rated 9/10 game, brings in half those 100k ?
mighty carbon
out of that number, maybe fraction gets direct sales at full price.
3M users, unsaturated market, wild west. make some killer app and see
and since we are talking mobile VR, you could just deploy to Google and Gear and double your numbers
cobalt relic
I'm not trying to change your mind, I'm just trying to give a sense of the orders of magnitude
mighty carbon
I have publishing account on Steam
and been doing this since 2011
so, I know how the system works first hand and I have no illusions about Steam and indie game dev
also, 100k is a damn good supplementary income for me
cobalt relic
I'm not even talking about indies here
cobalt relic
Indies don't make a platform ๐
They never have
Only indies means the platform is doomed
mighty carbon
indie devs
cobalt relic
See the Ouya for reference
mighty carbon
not indie players
cobalt relic
Indie devs, yeah
mighty carbon
so, if you are an indie, and you want to know stats, would you look at similarly ranked indies or AAA devs and AAA-indies?
cobalt relic
That's not the point
mighty carbon
it is
cobalt relic
That's not my point
My point is : platforms where AAA don't exist end up dying quick
mighty carbon
otherwise you can rake up Minecraft, Terraria, FTL, etc. and say "hmm.. maybe I can capture a fraction if that market"... And it doesn't work like that.
cobalt relic
No shit
mighty carbon
Gear VR isn't dying
if it was dying, Oculus wouldn't have dedicated 10's of millions of dollars to support content creators
cobalt relic
I'm not saying it is dying. I'm saying it will if those numbers don't get a few more zeroes ๐
mighty carbon
less than what they dedicated to Rift, but a lot of money nonetheless
how many commercial games have you released, @cobalt relic ? (being indie, working indie full time)
cobalt relic
None as an indie. Can't speak about my employer, but that part is the reason I'm skeptical
mighty carbon
I'd understand someone running business for years, with sizable team and several projects under the belt needing more zeros in the paycheck.. But if you are starting out, what makes you think (except that yes, miracles happen and you could be very well next Notch) you jump into market and make more zeros ?
cobalt relic
That's so disconnected to anything I've said, i won't even answer
What I'm saying is no money, no AAA, no players
You can indiedev as much as you want
mighty carbon
lol, ok.. time will tell
sullen stirrup
gdi
any idea on why a motion controller component ain't getting its overlap events triggered?
the other actor does receive a signal from the motion controller overlapping
but not the other way around
heady parrot
is the collider/primitive on that actor set to generate overlap events? also could be on a different collision channel
or are you expecting both controller and the actor to generate overlap events?
sullen stirrup
both are meant to overlap and are set to
that's the motion controller component, it has a child mesh comp with same settings
and that is the actor overlapping
heady parrot
try asking in #legacy-physics, those guys are usually quite helpful on this stuff ๐
mighty carbon
I think when you do it that way, anything overlaping will fire that print string
sullen stirrup
yea but it ain't for some reason
it is firing on the other actor but not on the controller component
sullen stirrup
will do after testing a bit more
mighty carbon
๐
sullen stirrup
(โฏยฐโกยฐ๏ผโฏ๏ธต โปโโป
heady parrot
is the collider you expect the root component on your hand actor?
try taking the event straight from the collider instead of the actor (ie Left)
sullen stirrup
let me try that, and yea both root and child have same collision settings
so it does fire when using the child mesh component instead of the root controller
heady parrot
only the root component is swept and checked for
sullen stirrup
so how does this make sense
they use a sphere on their vr template
anyway, guess using children actors is the way to go
heady parrot
I think its simply an optimization, but its well documented
mighty carbon
I guess you don't want controller itself to collide, but rather whatever is attached to it
wraith atlas
hey guys n gals, I'm looking for a technical artist who owns a rift/vive headset to help with build relaxing VR experiences. Please DM me with your interest, rates and availability. thanks!! Here's a polycount freelancer post with more details: http://polycount.com/discussion/180252/paid-meditation-environments-for-vr-unreal-engine
Or let me know if there is someone you would recommend I reach out to -thanks!
heady parrot
try #career-chat too
mighty carbon
I am hyped for the three games that aren't on that list :/
what puzzles me is that with so much content out created for AAA games for the past few years, no AAA is trying to recycle it for VR
makes no sense to me :/
(ok, fine, overhead and lower than AAA profits is why they don't do it; but why not to license it to indies?!)
heady parrot
which games?
mighty carbon
Lone Echo, Robo Recall and Arktika 1
Those aren't coming until 2017
or are you asking about AAA games to be recycled for VR ?
heady parrot
no ๐ thats what I expected, Im waiting on those myself
played Lone Echo at OC3, it was the big surprise for me there
Robo Recall is awesome, Im looking forward to playing the rest of it
mighty carbon
aye
wintry escarp
does paid ocean rift just add more sharks etc. or more scenery?
heady parrot
yes
mighty carbon
do you guys have any plans for Gunjack for the future ?
heady parrot
I worked on Valkyrie for 3 years (one of the founders), but moved to another project in July
mighty carbon
and do you guys work with indies ? (in a sense of letting them use assets and work with your IP)
wicked oak
great game
heady parrot
CCP is working on Gunjack 2 yeah
not sure about the asset question, really outside my expertise ๐
wintry escarp
only on daydream? gearvr fell out of favour?
heady parrot
Im not on that team or marketing, so dont know any reasons for that ๐
upbeat holly
eve valkyre was a hell of a good looking game, was that the VR one?
like space combat sim?
desperately needed
cant wait till starcitizen comes out
heady parrot
yeah
short locust
2.6 should be here very soon
I've spent way more on SC than I should have
Although, not as much as some people.
heady parrot
I haven't played SC in a long time, been saving it until its good ๐ Im a super early backer myself and a "Golden ticket" holder
short locust
I log in now and again to see what's up, but don't really play at all.
I'll think I'll spend a while in 2.6 or 3.0 though
heady parrot
Im a bit vary of "early access" kinda games.. I tend to burn out on them until they're actually done
before*
short locust
Yeah, I do that too. Or I do the opposite and get really excited about backing Elite Dangerous and then never play.
Oh, you worked on Valkyrie? I can't remember if that was all made in the same studio or not.
Are you in the UK?
mighty carbon
folks, does it make any difference whether domain ends with .com or with one of those non standard extensions, like .biz or .xyz ?
(from business and PR perspective)
heady parrot
I was in the UK for 3 years, moved to the US n ow
short locust
I think .com is preferred, but it would also depend on a few other things
heady parrot
Valkyrie started in Iceland in our spare time, then we moved and joined the UK studio
short locust
Yeah, I'm near the UK studio. I usually see the CCP peeps at VRTGO
heady parrot
ah cool ๐ yeah I attended the first two VRTGO events
was on the panel on the first one
short locust
Nice. This year's was amazing, mostly because of the guy from NASA
heady parrot
yeah I heard it was fun ๐
jagged vale
eve valkyrie really doesn't seem worth it on vive
maybe i'll get it if it's ever 70% off or something
or a massive update
wintry escarp
how much is it
jagged vale
$60 USD
with mtx
for a generic arcade shooter with lacking content ๐
based on the reviews the gist of it is:
- expensive / over-priced
- microtransactions on the top of ^
- very generic
- movement is too basic
- some technical issues and design flaws all over
- can't even accept eula without a xbox controller & lack of input methods
- poor graphics / blocky cockpit models / aliasing issues at distance & no custom settings
- not much of a single player campaign, game has ~0.5-1 hours of worthwhile play
- lack of content overall, after single player there is only deathmatch multiplayer where every map looks the same and play the same
- vr restriction makes no sense and should be playable without vr
i'm just super disappointed since i was looking forward to it, glad i didn't buy it
wintry escarp
a $60 game should never have micro transactions
jagged vale
'works' being a relative term
a $60 game should have content ๐
the verdict seems to be if you want a space game buy elite dangerous
i'll be looking at star citizen if it releases
upbeat holly
you need all of them
Elite for that real world space pilot feeling
Star Citizen for just awesomeness
eve valkyre for the flashy combat
What about COD: Infinite war?
Is that in VR?
jagged vale
don't know, i don't blink twice at cod games
upbeat holly
yea i dont play them either, but this one is in space
Also titanfall the mechwarrior for a new generation
needs to be in VR
jagged vale
imagine titanfall would have a lot of simulation sickness issues
upbeat holly
The weak need to be culled from the herd
jagged vale
no need to make titanfall vr for that, just send them on a trip to aussie for a week
upbeat holly
Yea but with mecha & Esports its more entertaining
pearl tangle
there was already a mech warrior type game that had vr support like 1.5 years ago
Hawk something
clever sky
Hawk-bros
pearl tangle
well its a multiplayer shooter so yeah
real needle
Is it somehow possible to render WidgetComponents set to be in ScreenSpace instead of world, but for stereo?
I essentially want the widget component to be rendered after everything else
winged shale
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm switching back to Unity for mobile
real needle
hmmm i'm having issues getting this kinect plugin to compile with 4.14
winged shale
but also maybe for everything, depending on how much better this is... I've really had it up to here with all of UE4's idiosyncrasies
clever sky
How much work are you going to redo?
real needle
I solved it! I'll write a short tut on how to
it doesn't hurt to know the whole ecosystem and be flexible
winged shale
I'm trying to do destructible meshes, not implemented in Android, and haven't worked on implementation for 2 years.
Trying to get spatialized/attenuated audio working for Daydream, not possible in UE4 on Android at all.
@real needle I agree, I haven't touched Unity since 5.3 when I messed around with the Pre
clever sky
@real needle Great to hear. But... why are you rendering it in front of everything? ๐ Is it close to your face? Or is it located further in the world?
winged shale
And then there's performance, and proper MSAA...
pearl tangle
@real needle howd you manage that without it sticking right onto your face?
winged shale
and mixed reality, and... blah blah blah
pearl tangle
@winged shale what do you mean the spatialized audio doesn't work? It works fine in there, you just need to setup the attenuation settings
clever sky
How they both stack up and which one is better suited to myneeds.
real needle
I wanted it for a few reasons but the main one being the players HUD (Icons for other team players, objectives etc)
winged shale
@pearl tangle I did set it up for each sound, and I've currently tried everything I know how to do, it works fine on desktop but for mobile it just plays the sound
and it doesn't allow me to change the pitch for some odd reason...
real needle
It works well on menus as well
pearl tangle
im pretty sure i had it working fine in my daydream app but dont really remember anymore though to be honest
winged shale
but I'll miss C++ so much ๐ซ
clever sky
You'd miss BP more if you were reliant on that ๐
pearl tangle
@real needle is it just the object layering that you are trying to solve?
real needle
@pearl tangle Yeah checking "Disable Depth Test" on the material for the component did it
pearl tangle
I got into the UDN last night so will be pushing a few questions on the mixed reality stuff too @winged shale I saw a few decent responses in there for other setups
but then you are still having it in screen space not world space?
real needle
Was that question for spy or me?
@pearl tangle do you know if its supposed to be coming anytime soon?
pearl tangle
the world space 1 was for you @real needle
real needle
Yeah it's still in world space
pearl tangle
@real needle there are a bunch of ways you can integrate it in there at the moment. Epic's viewpoint is that for performance sake its not a good idea to run the video camera stuff on the same machine
real needle
I got mixed reality working, but I cant figure out depth right
pearl tangle
what components have you got going on yours?
real needle
@real needle Three MC-components?
got opencv taking a webcam in
to rendertarget
material basically chromakeying it
writing material to rendertarget
pearl tangle
ah so depth camera to put the person in then?
real needle
overlaying it onto a scene capture's rendertarget
displaying that as the screen
yeah but the issue is
not too sure how to get kinect into ue
and the plugins are crappy
migt just use more opencv
pearl tangle
the 1 i linked you the other week from Lion didn't get you most of what you needed?
real needle
trying to compile it atm, was having some issues so i cleaned the project and did a full rebuild
pearl tangle
the part im more interested in is the different camera view and camera control stuff. I am less concerned with the proper mixed reality stuff but it would be handy for making case studies and stuff
real needle
im trying to take a different approach to depth
place a physical plane in the world, and tesselate it to offset kinects depth input
wanna see how that works out
pearl tangle
im very impressed with the stuff that job simulator has been able to do with theirs
real needle
yeah, theyre probably using a point cloud
pearl tangle
do you need the proper 3d 1 for the person though since you aren't exporting stereo footage you can most likely get away wit ha flat plane?
clever sky
Any idea what kind camera Job simulator guys are using?
pearl tangle
yeah they are using a depth camera and creating a mesh on the person to do the lighting. looks fine on large body parts but the face looked very dodgy
stereo camera
real needle
the depth is for a scenario where a player reaches over a object in front of them
their arm would still be behind the object
clever sky
Stereo RGB?
pearl tangle
probably an xtion
clever sky
You can get depth that quickly out of it, or is it done in post?
real needle
they are using https://www.stereolabs.com/
pearl tangle
yeah guess thats an issue. if you just have background, player,foreground its easy with the flat 1
oh yeah i was going to grab 1 of those. its pretty much the same as the occipital structure sensor 1 i have had lying around for ages though
clever sky
That's a sexy camera
pearl tangle
i have some of the intel realsense 1s too that can do the same sort of job but their camera range is made for much closer things like hand tracking and facial recognition
winged shale
oh wow, turns out you can quite easily interface C++ with Unity through self-authored .dlls
pearl tangle
if you have the pro version
pearl tangle
that was always the case I thought. Couldn't inject your own DLL's in unless you had pro version
maybe newer licensing has changed that in the last 12 months or something
real needle
@pearl tangle compiling the kinect plugin gives me an error
winged shale
they have the more affordable plus option, for 35 a month which seems to do the same stuff
except for a 200k revenue cap
pearl tangle
yeah seems like their licensing has changed drastically after ue4 came out. was $1500 for pro for ages then $1500 for android and $1500 for ios
@real needle i know he stopped doing stuff with it back on like 4.8 or something so will probably require a few tweaks to get going
there was somebody else on here that had been doing a locomotion system and using the kinect point cloud to show his full body in the game and on stream. can't remember who was doing it but should probably still be around on the forums
real needle
Not sure what "module rules for should not be dependent on modules which are also dynamically loaded" means
pearl tangle
looping dependency issue by the sounds of it
make those modules not dynamically loaded and might fix it
real needle
looking it up seems to be from 4.8->4.9
yeah that fixed that error
going through others seeing if i can get it to work
pearl tangle
cool hopefully not too tough
pearl tangle
he should have an example map there somewhere i think might get you in the right direction
pearl tangle
nice good start!
so thats the depth channel in there?
also looks like a good up skirt shot there, may want to be careful once you switch on the rgb haha
pearl tangle
low resolution on that 1 i think, doesn't quite match the rgb from memory
your on kinect v2 right?
pearl tangle
did they fix that with the 2nd? i remember it being very annoying on the first 1
real needle
resolution is fine but
for some reason every ~6 inches is a restart of the depth field color
like 1 inch away is black, 6 inch away is white, 7 inch away is black, 12 inch away is white
pearl tangle
oh right that sounds like the output image is in 8 bit or something rather than 16bit
check your texture
real needle
hmm not sure how to do that
storm vortex
@real needle are you using the kinect to do motion capture?
real needle
trying to use it for mixed reality
for some reason infrared grey comes in fine, but the depth comes in with like layers'' every 6 inches
real needle
@silk lodge normalized just gives me a foreground and background, i want variable epth
pearl tangle
@clever sky looks like that backpack is pretty much the same as the little zotak box 1 i got but with a better CPU and battery
@real needle what version did you compile the plugin for? Could shoot me over the plugin and project you have I can play around. I remember doing some stuff with it before and solving that problem with the realsense
real needle
compiled for the 4.14.1 i pulled from github a while ago
sure i can send it to you in a bit
pearl tangle
yeah i should be able to run that
real needle
I think the issue is that the depth is being fed in 256rgb in this code
pearl tangle
ah that sounds like a configuration problem then on his side
pearl tangle
hah yep config issue is what i meant. there should be 1024 layers for the depth i think
clever sky
Turns out, I'd been handicapping my VR development for a long time now.
Chrome decided yesterday to lag me out. Quit it out, lost a shit load of tabs
Running my VR stuff in editor... can turn up to 200% render scale
without frame drops.
Wheee
real needle
@pearl tangle would doing %1024 solve the issue?
pearl tangle
haha yeah having 400 chrome tabs open does tend to kill my system a tad too
i think that should probably do the trick @real needle
clever sky
The upside to running with a handicap is you work to improve performance ๐
pearl tangle
thats why i have my other developer running a 1070 in his machine so that he can build the stuff right up to breaking point and then it should run smooth on our 1080 machines ๐
real needle
nope no change
clever sky
"And as our most qualified developer... you shall get our weakest machine."
'makes sense.... I guess' grumbles
pearl tangle
@real needle then it may just be on a texture stream side of things in unreal. shoot me through your build and il have a quick go through if you like. Im in the office for another hour or so
it does the trick zaptruder
real needle
figured it out ๐
pearl tangle
because you always try and push things as far as you possibly can
real needle
Replaced: BYTE intensity = static_cast<BYTE>((depth >= nMinDepth) && (depth <= nMaxDepth) ? (depth % 256) : 0);
with
BYTE intensity = depth == 0 || depth > 4095 ? 0 : 255 - (BYTE)(((float)depth / 4095.0f) * 255.0f);
clever sky
@pearl tangle yeah totally. It's just a funny thing to think about ๐
pearl tangle
hmm yeah i don't quite get what his 1 was trying to do
ooh actually I grabbed the particle effect plugin 1 that can work off a mesh or texture the other day. should pretty much be able to plug that texture output into there and get yourself a basic point cloud
silk lodge
that looks cool
pearl tangle
thats looking much clearer
the heightmap texture module
1 minute into that video
real needle
try to use a texture color module with the heightmap module
pearl tangle
will see if they can be combined together
real needle
ok thanks ๐
real needle
I think youd need to filter out the back first
silk lodge
is it pulling out enough layers?
real needle
here let me send another
pearl tangle
pushed them further but yeah its like the same problem you were having
and thats like 50k particles hah
silk lodge
there' s aghost in the door!!
real needle
ooooo spoooky
honestly i have no idea what that is the doors wide open
and try this too
clever sky
You did it?!
real needle
did what?
clever sky
Got a depth tracked cutout of yourself through kinect
real needle
yup
clever sky
Nice nice. So we'll get proper green screening?
real needle
yeah gonna do greenscreen, only using depth for rendering depth in game
kinects resolution isnt high enough to make good mixed reality from just depth
clever sky
Ah
real needle
but i may be able to tap into the color camera on kinect for that, and make it do some greenscreening in engine
clever sky
So depth mainly useful for depth based occlusion
real needle
ya
real needle
ill see how in depth i take it
clever sky
Good luck! The hero that UEVR needs!
pearl tangle
1 sided material?
cobalt relic
Well, just do normal dot camera vector ?
pearl tangle
real needle
my biggest issue with the particles is the fact that it is particles
itd be better if it was more solid-looking
real needle
the plane might work
pearl tangle
hows that 1 happening? Just tesselation?
real needle
yup
pearl tangle
not bad
but then you are stuck with the same problem of an object cant be both in front and behind it right?
real needle
no
it works fine for that
you stick your arm to the camera, kinect depth increases displacement on the plane, your in game hand passes the cube
any way to get scenedepth into a rendertarget?
tried using a scenecapture but its not outputting anything
pearl tangle
oh yeah i guess as long as you chop out the background from the plane it should go ok
you just want to do an alpha mask based on the distance i guess
cant do the particle colouring from the output with this thing since the colour 1 doesn't work on gpu particles
oh you should try shells!
real needle
alright so i need to get this going for a scenecapture
and then use that with some math to overlap the player
and render that rendertarget
and it should be done ๐
if anyone knows how to do that with a render target and wants to save me research lemme know
but I'll continue this tomorrow I gotta get some sleep
pearl tangle
dont you just want to drop your plane in the scene there and that rendertarget is already doing it?
or you mean for the mixed reality to display that camera on the other screen?
real needle
yeah
id use the scene capture depth and the kinects depth, do a mask and use it to overlap eachother, then render that to the monitor
pearl tangle
ah yeah that 1 needs a modification to the engine code and you can change whats showing up on the mirror view
it should be stickied on here i think
ah it is not annoyingly
real needle
Already got that part finished ๐
pearl tangle
ah so not sure which part you are missing then? just take your plane and drop it on there and it should work?
pearl tangle
ah then try and merge the render targets? sounds messy
the render target things are also stupidly heavy too so be careful with them
real needle
It should be manageable if I can figure out how to get scenedepth from a scenecaptjre
pearl tangle
i dont think you can. its literally just acting as a 2d camera
real needle
yeah but I need the depth mask
There are some people who have done it with post process blendables
pearl tangle
running a post process on the scene capture camera?
real needle
Mhmm
pearl tangle
ah didn't even know you could do that
real needle
Yup on any camera
pearl tangle
cool never attempted that. makes sense though then should do the trick
id still say its a lot cleaner and less processor intensive to just have your kinect warped mesh right in the scene where you need it
real needle
Nah the resolution of a tessellated mesh can never reach high quality
pearl tangle
yeah but the resolution of your scene capture cameras is rubbish and 1 camera going to another camera i would assume has to be pretty rough
actually should try out the infinite mirror thing with them and see what it does to the system
real needle
It's not that bad. Just two render targets in a material and then I draw that material to a 3rd to display
pearl tangle
keen to see how it goes!
real needle
Yeah me too. Tired of waiting on epic haha
pearl tangle
yeah im about to smash the UDN with a bunch of questions about their status on it and whatnot :p
clever sky
What's the process for releasing content onto Steam?
Should I just contact steamvrbiz@valvesoftware.com directly and get setup through them?
Or do I register on a website?
I have zero-experience with this, so I need all the info
hard light
you need to summon Gabe by sacrificing three goats
hard light
but yes, try SteamVRBiz@valvesoftware.com
clever sky
Just contact them directly? Don't need to set anything else up before hand?
hard light
I did not find them particularly helpful through that address, but that's the way to do it
if they want / need anything from you they'll ask for it
clever sky
Cool cool
hard light
otherwise they'll just ignore you because Valve are incredibly shit at customer / client support
clever sky
Ok, I guess I better get my business paperwork done first.
hard light
just be persistent if and when you don't get a reply
wicked oak
they give steamworks keys like nobodys business
clever sky
How long's the process?
wicked oak
i didnt even ask for one and tey gave me one
clever sky
Like from contacting them to getting something up on their page?
hard light
it took us something like 8 weeks -_-
wicked oak
couple days to validate store, couple days to validate game
now you can hit the big green RELEASE button when you wish
8 weeks?
u wot mate
how?
hard light
they ask questions, you'd reply, and then you'd hear nothing back for two weeks at a time
it took forever to get anywhere
clever sky
BTW vblanco, where was that list of artwork requirements needed for the steam page?
hard light
I had to be persistent to get anywhere with 'em
clever sky
Trying to design my icon right now
wicked oak
a whole bunch
its on staemworks documentation
you need 4 capsule images plus a header
then your usual game icons
and then 5 screenshots and a trailer
clever sky
I guess that's why I see pages
wicked oak
TFW your 1 week prototype has better gameplay
clever sky
where they use youtuber clips featuring their game ๐
clever sky
Yeah man. I bought it.
wicked oak
did you try my shootout prototype?
clever sky
No. Just DWVR
Also Torus Syndicate which I thoroughly enjoyed.
but that's got nothing to do with you. I just thought I'd mention it
because that one is much more like Time Crisis ๐
clever sky
Ah
clever sky
Probably a good idea
if you're not planning on investing much more time in it
I noted that bullet time does level streaming load screen
Now that I've experienced it... it's kinda bad
Given that it totally locks up the comp while loading.
Just about the only use case it'd work for is mine; total white!
wicked oak
you can tell it not to
clever sky
Really?
clever sky
Ah...
Ok. Good to know. Will ask more about it later
Can't find the documentation on media requirements in steamworks
wicked oak
its on the store page settings
under Assets
it tells you exactly what you need to add
clever sky
store page settings?
You have to set up a store page before you can view those requirements?
clever sky
Ok. So how do I go about getting stuff setup before I finish developing
so I'm not waiting a couple more weeks for all this stuff to get done ๐
clever sky
Cheers
wicked oak
its what its on the steam page
mighty carbon
@clever sky did you already submit your project to Greenlight ?
clever sky
No
I haven't done anything yet.
But I know you can get it fast tracked
if it's VR.
So that's what I'll be doing
I just need to get my head around the requirements
of releasing stuff on Steam
mighty carbon
Well, once you get access (which you can, without submitting anything), you can read the docs
clever sky
Yeah, I registered. I'm going through the docs
But it seems the artwork requirements weren't in the docs, but locked behind the store page menu
which you don't get access to until you upload/figure out the SDK...
mighty carbon
well, it is what it is
you get access to it when you get AppID
and you get AppID when you game gets greenlit first time. I believe any game after that can get AppID upon request.
Damn FMOD ๐ฆ New version still doesn't support UE 4.14
wicked oak
vr gets free AppIDs
mighty carbon
they all free
dusk vigil
Anybody working with Touch? I am trying to orient the hand correctly, but the pivot gets monged up. Trying AddLocalRotation -70 to the hand, and it points in a more natural direction, but the wrist pivot is off. Trying to AddLocalOffset to it but so far no luck getting it nice, really hard to iterate on it
mighty carbon
it's just you have to go through Greenlight is you want your publishing account
mighty carbon
Hmm
clever sky
@dusk vigil how are you adding the hand?
wicked oak
btw, how do you see this
for the store text
looking for reviews
it looks a bit dry for me
clever sky
Just add it as a child to the motion controller component right?
dusk vigil
@clever sky took a copy of the example BP_MotionController, replaced the model
works fine for Vive
wicked oak
it doesnt for oculus, the oculus touch example hands are in a world position
you need to remove the location of the first bone
and then align it well
took a while to do that for me
dusk vigil
Hmm, I think it is using the same hand blueprint for both in 4.13
Let's have a look though
clever sky
Hmmm... first thing I'd do is find the touch controller meshes
and ensure that those are functioning correctly
in terms of rotation and translation
at 0,0,0
if not, then figure out a fix...
after that, it's piss easy to child the hand mesh to the controller
and then child it to the motion controller component without moving its position.
dusk vigil
Will investigate. Thanks
sullen stirrup
you mention enemies twice @wicked oak
clever sky
@wicked oak Mention movement. It's a point of differentiation from turret shooters
sullen stirrup
also wouldn't say 'gun' and 'fireball' if there are other spells and weapons
dunno
clever sky
Also say something about feeling like a super-powered hero
wicked oak
any ideaS?
clever sky
by switching seamlessly between an arsenal of guns, swords, spells as you blast your way through murderous hordes
wicked oak
i really like that line