imo, they could've done a lot better, then people wouldn't have to pay .. what, 200$ shipping to aus
#virtual-reality
drifting verge
clever sky
But it doesn't have controllers or link boxes
winged shale
oh AUS, how are you even communicating with us on your internet?
clever sky
The DK1 is the equivalent of the left half.
Well, we have these things called copper cables
and they bury them underground
And let the rats chew on it to age it all.
After a 50 year fermentation period, we hook up routers to the cables
clever sky
And that sends small electrical pulses that encodes enough information for a few KB of text.
Like on discord.
clever sky
YOU SHUT YOUR HOLE YOU NBN ELITIST
drifting verge
;D
winged shale
I'm paying fucking 80 dollars a month for 30mbps down and 5mbps up in USA
clever sky
Fuckin voting in the liberals and pulling the ladder up after you've climbed it!
winged shale
fucking Time warner cable
clever sky
Fuck you murdoch you fucking face sucking crone
winged shale
ahahaha
clever sky
It's been a bad year.
drifting verge
this one's business interwebs.
winged shale
I see
2016 can go fuck itself with a cactus
Harambe didn't die for it to be this way
clever sky
- The year we saw our timeline split.
I mean it happened before in 2000.
But I think it happened before the presidential elections this year TBH ๐
Maybe around the brexit vote time.
winged shale
mhm
it all started with an innocent gorilla
and ended with an isolationist UK and the White House moving to the Trump Tower
it's the reason I know VR is not fucked, this was the best year to give people an escape
clever sky
Hey. At least when the climate gets totally fucked by regressive governments
We'll have VR
This is like a Shamalamadingdog style twist.
Turns out... the machines didn't matrix us. We did it ourselves!
And then they took the heat when we got angsty about it.
Because they were always looking out for us.
clever sky
Yeah, I want my perrier air through my breathing tubes while I'm in the metaverse thank you very much.
drifting verge
such a weird/pretty pattern.
clever sky
Yeah, those lighthouses are total trypophobia material
drifting verge
does it only use the top left hand side or something ?
clever sky
winged shale
the new base stations are going to need only one rotor
@drifting verge it has two rotors in the 'dead space' to the right and lower parts
they spew out laser lines at 60Hz each
@clever sky you could really utilize Voronoi to make some creepy shit
winged shale
huuuurrrrrrourph
clever sky
Is that the sound of you gagging? ๐
winged shale
yes
drifting verge
@winged shale sounds good to me
felt them vibrating away when I plugged them in, glad it's quiet though
and super happy they don't have to plug into anything else.
clever sky
Man... I hate that web names have essentially been dictionary attacked
And every reasonable combo has already been registered by squatters ๐
drifting verge
does anyone know about the seperate from the dial thing focus knobs ?
(that you have to take the straps off for.)
clever sky
@drifting verge No... sounds intriguing
clever sky
Oh the focus knobs
drifting verge
then you pull the gray ring up
clever sky
Not the IPD dial
drifting verge
^
clever sky
Unless they've changed the design from the original
clever sky
Nope. That's how they're meant to work.
But what about it? It's an eye-relief adjustment thing.
I've left mine on closest, even though I wear glasses
drifting verge
just it offered more of a change than the IPD
just saw it on reddit, etc.
I couldn't find any manuals or anything for the vive, so I just best guessed it.
clever sky
More change than the IPD?
drifting verge
focal length wise, yeah
clever sky
It changes something different... and it has more depth change than the IPD has width change...
But it has less steps than the IPD...
Although those steps are a bit redundant it feels
Because you can't tell the difference between 0.1mm difference in IPD.
drifting verge
I couldn't tell the difference between 60-68
clever sky
Haha...
I know what you meant. But if you take off the headset and twiddle the knob
then put it back on, you'll probably be able to tell.
Like I demo it to people and tell them to adjust the IPD
then when I put it back on, I'm like... uhh, why's everything look weird.
Oh yeah, IPD.
clever sky
What's it do?
I assume you're importing it from some program or file?
Like you have a work flow external of UE and then just hit a button and it updates in UE?
drifting verge
uhh. multiple objects all imported at once from the same file, retaining material information
and as a bonus retain their local origins.
clever sky
That sounds useful
drifting verge
pretty much @workflow
clever sky
What program/plugin are you using?
clever sky
Ah
clever sky
Yeah, I guess that's what that button in Maya does.
It also has a similar UE4 export button
clever sky
Don't use it much?
drifting verge
well. I didn't purchase the service thing along with it.
which contains that button
drifting verge
yeah same.
clever sky
Annoyingly.
It doesn't support the one thing I need from it right now.
Which is good UV mapping.
drifting verge
python?
clever sky
Like... fuckin shit, why's the default Maya UV tools so crappy
everything is a struggle.
It feels.
clever sky
Trouble doing things like selecting the edges of UVs independently.
drifting verge
I'd just do that in the viewport
clever sky
Like come on. How basic a need is that? I want to move things around in Maya. I don't want to move the connected edges at the same time!
Why are you doing that? ARRGHHH!
You can kinda do it if you pin the other side.
drifting verge
in Max there's smoothing groups. you can't smooth lines.
clever sky
Fuck D:
digital marlin
What's LT?
clever sky
I swear... Autodesk has the worst UI designers of all time.
digital marlin
Revit?
digital marlin
What's a good 3D modelling program for morons?
clever sky
Sketchup.
drifting verge
aha, new mspaint, yeah
clever sky
I love/hate sketchup so much. Love it for how easy/fast doing things in it is.
hate it because it's so underpowered and feature lacking.
digital marlin
I like Blender and I did a few tuts but good god it's a very steep curve
clever sky
But generally, if you're white boxing and creating stand ins, Sketchup is the best tool bar none.
drifting verge
all the bloody shortcuts are an issue
edit mode shits me
the default mouse shits me
camera never used to have roll lock either..
clever sky
the 3D content generation application industry
Is basically the result of the mismatch between 2D display and 2D input and 3D content creation.
Can't wait for VR to come in and kick that shit in and help make a lot of the core functions more homogenous.
drifting verge
what is it? vive paint ?
digital marlin
You guys tried doing VR Editing with U4?
digital marlin
I haven't bothered yet, but if it helps making things easier
clever sky
No... I mean people like autodesk and adobe actually making 3D content creation tools that can be used in VR.
Unfortunately, the early VR content stuff while promising is basically the VR equivalent of MS Paint.
drifting verge
I can see that being fun, something like mudbox.
digital marlin
heh
clever sky
Mudbox. animations. Having your palettes open all around you'
digital marlin
After playing with Tilt Brush I was like, 'Great.. wish I could actually do something with this."
winged shale
what's this python plugin for Maya for UV editing, I just thought UV was destined to be a fucking pain in the ass forever
clever sky
@digital marlin You can make splines with it. And export them as FBX
drifting verge
you can export your shit from til-- ^
clever sky
drifting verge
well shit, there you go
winged shale
WHAT THE FUUUUUCK
drifting verge
why would they bother making it for fucking mayascript.
clever sky
I don't know. The gods hate us.
The guy's just sitting there and using all these functions I struggled for days with in Maya
winged shale
my life is so sad
I wish LT was not garbage
and I wish I had $$$$
that I could reasonably and realistically spend
clever sky
Damn stuff is getting harder to pirate as well D:
clever sky
This used to work Autodesk. You'd let us pirate your shit when we were small, you look the other way, then when we're big, we pay you the exorbitant fees!
winged shale
+1
what I'm doing is just using the 'educational' version
and I'll shell out when I get the hell out
if you still have access to a .edu email address then you can probably get it too
but seriously, they would increase their market and user installs, use-base, knowledge base, etc. by just offering Maya for free until you make money, and focusing some more effort into ensuring payout
I mean I would register with my real info damn
clever sky
Haha ๐
Yeah... I mean, I get that LT is their attempt at that
making it accessible.
But look Maya, your shit stinks bad. Maya only works because tens to hundreds of thousands of users have added working shit on top
winged shale
I've considered going back to Bender for these reasons
clever sky
And if you cut that out and give us the straight Maya shit.
winged shale
just like, stop the gatekeeper nonsense with no Python in LT
it's not like you Autodesk fucks made any of the content that makes your things good
clever sky
D:
Ah well. I'm just going to go pony up for Headus UV tools
Refund my LT sub for now because I'm not using it, because their UV tools stink.
clever sky
Yeah, it's getting there.
Not a game right now, just my locomotion demo been wrapped up and polished
Main thing is that... it takes about 5-20 minutes to get used to it.
To go from - 'hmm.... this feels a bit weird to... ok ok... yeah, I see... you know what? This is probably as good as it gets.'
So I needed to add enough polish and content to get people playing around with it a bit.
Just need to add in a calibration screen, a save system, put together my company paper work
Sort out some other quibbles... and I should be ready to show the world!
winged shale
awesome
I'm registering Ace Bananz as a company when I get back from traveling, so excited
clever sky
Haha... I don't know why I hate paper work so much. But I do ๐
winged shale
I understand. What do you have to do to get it to work?
I only have to fill out a single piece of paper that says I'm doing business under the name of Ace Bananz, then make a company bank account
clever sky
Oh... yeah, that, plus website, plus pay some squatter for my domain name
winged shale
eugh
clever sky
Fun stuff! Money flying out so I can release a free demo! ๐
clever sky
Haven't quite figured it out yet... Probably limited beta release to you guys/forums then on steam
It's a bit big because of all the content
That I cribbed from unreal.
I mean Epic.
But that's what it's there for!
People are going to try it and think... jesus, this is what Everest VR should've been!
winged shale
cooool.
clever sky
And it's going to be Vive exclusive for now!
Because that's what you get Oculus for not sending free touch controllers to some shady dude off the internet!
winged shale
hehehe
clever sky
Who at the time didn't even know how to program!
BTW.... what do you know about profilling?
Trying to figure out what's causing a 15ms hitch
when I rotate my HMD past a certain point
Like... it's 5-6ms everywhere... then bam.
winged shale
I usually do profilegpu, but that's only for one frame
if you get it consistently when it's facing whatever
then you can do it
just type it in console when it's hitching, and then press esc on the VR preview window
clever sky
Well, it's not consistent... like it'll go back down pretty quickly.
winged shale
what's your SteamVR perf monitor graph saying
clever sky
I'll have a look
winged shale
you can pause it too, and turn on the advanced view if you're interested
clever sky
Is that 'display frame timing'
digital marlin
from Tilt brush
clever sky
The the uncertainty Yay ๐
clever sky
Yargh. Fuckin moveable/static switches
So the problem went away on one map. But was still there on another.
And after a bit, turns out it's because I have a big ass spot light that hits everything
that I accidentally left on moveable D:
winged shale
ehehehe
clever sky
I need more ram
How much you guys got?
Unreal just completely chokes when it runs out of ram for lightmapping.
Chokes your entire computer that is.
mighty carbon
@Zaptruder#9096 thanks. Is there a guide for the plugin online? I won't get Rift until few months from now. So your instructions will be lost and forgotten
mighty carbon
Aye, will ask again :)
winged shale
I've got 16GB and I'm wanting to switch to 64GB already
winged shale
Yeah. But with 16GB DIMMs why not
winged shale
Maya plus zbrush plus ue4 plus vs 2015 plus substance painter and designer plus steamVR
once I actually start up the art pipeline
And if I've got a 2x8GB kit, I don't just want to get another one because then I'll have twice the memory to throw out when I upgrade to 64
winged shale
Hence the situation you're in now lol
clever sky
Well, I do have 8 slots on my mobo ๐
digital marlin
4x 64
winged shale
X99 Mobo then?
digital marlin
Never require ram again.
clever sky
Yeah
digital marlin
Go full retard.
clever sky
I think I'll go 4 x 8 + 4 x4
That should be ok? ๐
Then chuck the 4+4 for the next upgrade
winged shale
Hmmmm even binary multiples are always better but I'm sure it will be fine
winged shale
I like to use the same memory to have the same timings, etc so that I don't get thrashing from access dissonances
clever sky
That's a thing?
winged shale
It could be, in bad scenarios
clever sky
And what's it mean?
where stuff is scattered across different ram types
and trying to pull both into CPU and causing hiccups
due to timing differences
I guess.
winged shale
You've got like 9-9-9-25 ram and 8-7-7-20 ram, sharded stuff across pages and thus across memory controllers
One memory controller is going to have to wait for the other to sync back with its cycle for a big cache get
It's a huge bus between memory and CPU
clever sky
So that'll mean it's just limited to the slowest one?
winged shale
Again, depends on the architecture
And what your Northbridge is like
That's best case, worst case is you lose a full set of cycles for a memory access
clever sky
Funnily enough there's a suburb in our city called Northbridge ๐
it's full of restaurants and clubs.
winged shale
That's what I'd expect Northbridge to be like lol
But this could all be a thing of the past, and may just be irrelevant with the new Intel memory controllers
Maybe they've embedded another hardware neural net to figure it out
General consensus is that you want the same module in every slot
clever sky
Fair enough!
winged shale
I remember when I put a single channel 512 MB DIMM in alongside another vendor's 256 MB DIMM preexisting on my old pentium III dingbox as an "upgrade"
More RAM? โ๏ธ
But suddenly everything got...crunchy
clever sky
Haha.... Ah man
I guess it's not that easy!
I've always been like.... meh, rams ram! it doesn't contribute much towards performance as long as you have enough!
And of course a decade plus of testing guides showed that.
to be a pretty good rule of thumb.
winged shale
Turns out the BIOS couldn't figure out how to run the two channels at different timings and voltages, so it averaged the voltages and left the timings out of phase
Yeah more or less, I'm surprised my crap box managed to run at all, pretty much Intel's P3 caching scheme saved the day
Computer architecture is absurd
Oh yeah
Ahem
VR is pretty cool guys...
winged shale
Reining in the tangent
clever sky
Ah ๐
winged shale
Sometimes I ramble when I'm on mobile
So easy to get into a rhythm with tapping on the phone screen, lulling by every character with another slight haptic feedback
winged shale
My graptop is out of battery so I pulled out the sidearm
Otherwise I'd be at home in front of my PC
But, the whole family thing
clever sky
Heh ๐
4.14 removed Anti aliasing from post process.
... which admittedly wasn't a very sensible place to put it.
But now I'm like... how do you change AA on the fly?
winged shale
AA parameters or AA method?
clever sky
Method
winged shale
That's tough
clever sky
Yeah... 4.13 was just set the post process check box.
winged shale
Ad I don't know. But I'm sure users would appreciate that
clever sky
I have a level that's terribad with FXAA
and need TXAA
But TXAA generally sucks the monkey scrotum for text.
winged shale
Why did you choose fx?
winged shale
Ah.
clever sky
I shit all over the cardinal rule of tutorials by making you read my manifesto.
Because dammit man. Making multi media tutorials is hard work and I want to be paid for it.
๐
winged shale
Oh man MSAA is going to be so good with HBM2
clever sky
How MSAA helped by HBM2?
winged shale
it's limited by memory bandwidth mostly
mighty carbon
I have 8Gb of RAM and used to run UE 4.11, Blender and GIMP simultaneously
winged shale
Going back and forth between samples and surface. Fill rate isn't hurt too much
clever sky
Yo check this AA out: http://www.geeks3d.com/20120626/phone-wire-anti-aliasing-dx10-demo/
winged shale
Cute
clever sky
It's goddamn revolutionary! (on thin lines)
winged shale
You know, we could probably solve this whole issue with text rendering by implementing text as post-render job
clever sky
That'd be nice.
How do you do that without digging into the guts of unreal?
Set it to a post process material?
winged shale
Nobody gives a hoot about TXAA until there's text there
Gonna have to dig into unreal probably
To make it easy to interface it with the slate stuff
But it would basically be slate for VR
winged shale
Since the point of it was to be super fucking cheap and render directly to the 2d render plane
I use them interchangeably as terms, probably wrong on that account
clever sky
Ah...
winged shale
I think slate is a sub component of UMG
winged shale
I'm not even sure how to go about making those calls in C++, the whole thing needs a refactor
But if you could draw text arbitrarily in 3d with really good fidelity, you could just hijack the render pipeline
Actually you could write a shader for it
It would do internal multisampling
Hey that's a pretty nifty idea
clever sky
This all beyond me now D: my designer background doesn't lend itself well to the technical depths of engine code!
smiles and nods
winged shale
Someone go do this I am too lazy and/or am not including text too much
clever sky
Pretty much.
And while they're at it, make the UMG interface less like UMG and more like... illustrator
winged shale
Uhhhhpvdtv yes
Can't emphasize that enough
It's nasty
Oh, quick tip to the listeners. If you want your game to be taken seriously by UE4 Devs, REPLACE ROBOTO
clever sky
Hahaha D:
winged shale
ffs it's not that hard to use a different font
clever sky
OK fine! I'll do it now...
winged shale
Yesssss
I see actual non-early access games coming out. With Roboto. All over it. And I'm just like, I've seen enough of this stupid font
clever sky
But it's like the calibri of Unreal!
winged shale
Definitely namesake
clever sky
I actually don't find roboto to be too bad in UMG when you vary up the sizes/widths
But the text render roboto
man that thing is...
winged shale
It's probably the biggest thing that screams "UE4 DEFAULTS" at me
clever sky
Depressing.
clever sky
So...
how do you do this font thing for text renders?
Because they seem to use a different thing to UI
sly chasm
should I get the oculus touch controllers, or get bunch of coolio-games on sale?
sly chasm
8?
clever sky
Well 8 things
clever sky
- Oculus Medium/sculpint program 2. Quill; tiltbrush rip off
sly chasm
ah
clever sky
VR Sports, Western Shooting game, horror game, Robo Recall
Toybox
and the neat toy demo with the robot
clever sky
Honestly, that's probably the most solid launch freebie list I've ever seen.
Even if each of them are not huge. Collectively, it's definetly a great showcase.
And yes
Unless specifically blocked like Google has done with Google Earth
clever sky
Cool. With touch controllers?
clever sky
Well yeah, I think they blocked it mainly to wait for the touch controller launch. Then they'll update it.
Because they didn't want to do gamepad controls
Understandable as it's pretty compromised with just gamepad.
sly chasm
yeah
but some people that already have the controllers cant crack it, I dont think
what should I do about all these games on sale ๐ฐ
sly chasm
do I really need to pre-order the controllers?
clever sky
@winged shale damn, getting text in is easy. Getting in text for text render is struggle town.
sly chasm
is it that much more worth it to pre-order them?
clever sky
Well, you don't have to. You can play through ample game pad content
until you get bored then decide to upgrade to touch controllers
It's just...
VR with gamepad is like real life in hand cuffs.
sly chasm
I mean, I can wait a little bit
I just need to know if the preorder bonuses are to die for or not
clever sky
What preorder bonuses?
Maybe a few of those games I listed are part of them. I don't know? I preordered right away
clever sky
Without expectation of bonus content ๐
sly chasm
"VR Sports Challenge" and "The Unspoken" for free
sly chasm
like I could probably get the touch for Xmas, but these Black-Friday deals are lookin so good
eh
yeah, I'm probably just going to do that
I don't think unspoken is too big-a reason to abstain from all these other games on sale ๐
real needle
Anyone done mixed reality or spectator camera with unreal engine?
dusk vigil
I'm interested to hear also. I would buy an external camera plugin immediately if one were to appear on the store...
Second screen ( rendering a second camera to monitor ) and MR capture seem to be areas where Unity is better off than UE
real needle
I would pay well for that too. I need this soon. The only option I see right now is doing multiple players but then I'd have to replicate and my game isn't set up for that
dusk vigil
So essentially multiplayer? Interesting idea, will have to think about that myself
tawdry dragon
so one from the sales team brought me this and asked if we can develop for it. ive searched around and cant find any info on what SDK it uses and it seems like cardboard doesnt fit it... do any of you have any idea if I can get unreal to support it?
real needle
@dusk vigil seen this before? https://github.com/adynathos/AugmentedUnreality/blob/master/README.md
dusk vigil
Interesting
@tawdry dragon What do you mean cardboard doesn't fit? Looks like a generic cardboard knockoff to me, so any default stereo mobile rendering should work?
tawdry dragon
Tried using a coardboard app inside it, but the distortion didnt match
might just be doing something wrong though
dusk vigil
Not sure, haven't messed with mobile VR beyond a couple of brief tests
But am sure a friend has some similar cheapo plastic headset, and it worked ok
sly chasm
Real quick, which is better for VR: Project CARS or Dirt Rally?
dusk vigil
Played both, both are pretty good
Hard to say which one I would pick if I had to choose. Maybe Dirt cos it has tracks set in Finland : )
Project CARS maybe looks a tad prettier
sly chasm
are all the drivers' seats on the right side in Dirt? lol
real needle
@dusk vigil some digging found me this https://github.com/haowang1013/UE4-MixeReality/blob/develop/README.md
I'll continue my hunt tomorrow
I know that Everest vr did mixed reality in ue
So it's gotta be possible
dusk vigil
Most interested to hear more, please do add my name to an information update if you do more later. If I may, I add you as friend also since we have similar needs it seems
real needle
Sure!
dusk vigil
That last link looks like a winner
real needle
If you have a chance to test it out before ~18 hours from now let me know how it goes
dusk vigil
But I haven't done engine code tweaking yet, so it will be a bit of a hurdle. Nothing I am afraid of though, but right now down with the flu and maintaining low-stress mode
real needle
Ah kk. Yeah I haven't messed with engine stuff myself but if that's what it takes then that's what I'll do
We want to announce our title within the next 1-2 months but no way we are doing it without mr
dusk vigil
Yeah, it is absolutely the best way to make impressive video. Our title is just reaching playable prototype, but it sort of hinges on having mediasexy mr capture potential
real needle
Well I'll get some sleep and (hopefully) report back in 24 hours ish on how it goes
pearl tangle
hey @tawdry dragon the cardboard plugin should let you store the details about the headset in a QR code so you can define the IPD, lens type, distance etc etc. Those shitty knock off 1s don't let you do any of that and they don't work with distortion. You will have to use the simple HMD plugin to get it to look half way decent on there
hard light
ooh, I did not know that, I knew you could do some stuff manually, but is there documentation on setting that kind of thing up anywhere?
pearl tangle
not necessary
you just use that
thats why the proper cardboard compatible 1s look much better. I have a pretty decent manufacturer I use to get ours printed. Potentially doing 250 000 pieces for 1 client!
anybody tested out ansel on 4.14 yet?
wicked oak
nope
it just got on the news. In Spain
the psvr has roflstomped both oculus and vive
and i mean completely roflstomped them
im not surprised
people in spain with pcs brutal enough to run vr are a minority
but tons of people have ps4s
when i was showing the game on the rift, i think i sold a ton of psvr units, but not a single rift
after telling the people "its actually 800 euros, plus a beefy pc"
instant no
pearl tangle
hah yeah its a tough 1
i just ordered an oculus and touch off amazon since they will ship them to singapore finally but oculus wont
hopefully I can convince epic to give me an early access copy of robo recall to demo in singapore for a while ๐
I was tempted to get 1 of the PS4 pro + vr packs on there too but its $1500 USD, don't really see it being too worthwhile except to setup in the office for friday drinks
wicked oak
ohh, i wasnt selected as finalist on Playstation Awards
time to put Steam AND Oculus early access pages up, alongside with VRDB
to release for PC
i was holding on, becouse winning that contest was 10k dollars but thne you have to be playstation exclusive
i still used it for what i wanted, that is getting into playstation development. So im alright anyway
pearl tangle
10k for exclusivity is a bit of a rip
wicked oak
i didnt plan to win
pearl tangle
did they give you a dev kit and things for it at least?
wicked oak
from the start
but i was expecting the "best in technology" at 1k dollars
i had to buy the devkit myself
but being part of Awards let me do the whole sony partnership much easier
pearl tangle
what are they pricing at these days? yeah the partnership stuff is a bitch. probably a bit better over here compared to asia at least
wicked oak
its not too expensive
pearl tangle
i assume around the $10k mark compared to the $50k it was for ps3?
wicked oak
hell nah
it was never 50k for ps3
i cant give you the exact number, nda stuff
but there are articles on the net that get close
search google, and see the ones that put the lowest price
pearl tangle
yeah i looked through all the stuff previously when i was looking if i could publish my stuff up there
in australia it was sitting around that back when they first came out. this was back before indie stuff kicked off
playstation is still too stuck on being a games only not experiences 1 so unlikely I will be pushing any of my things out there
hard light
my problem with Sony and PSVR, is that they're pushing multiplayer really, really hard
but IMHO, VR is usually best suited for singleplayer experiences
(though there's nothing wrong with some good multiplayer!)
pearl tangle
i think the group experiences are great, having a few people around watching and whatnot
hard light
they want multiplayer, multiplayer
I guess they want to use that to push as many headsets as possible
pearl tangle
yeah but bloody useless at the moment unless you have busy servers for stuff.
like cloudlands mini golf was good fun multiplayer on the vive but now nobody plays it so its dead
hard light
console games are often peer-to-peer though, so it's not exactly that much of an issue on Ps4
but you do need a player base to be able to do effective matchmaking
I gather the arena shooter they released is doing quite well
pearl tangle
yeah i still think the player bases are too small to get effective useful multiplayer out of the things. thats why indie multiplayer only games die 99% of the time
hard light
aye
clever sky
Well that sucks. PSVR, we have the largest VR market!
But, you have to make the genre of games worst suited to VR at the moment for it!
We want the next insert big multiplayer game here and we'll throw dozens of indy developers at the wall until we get it!
I'd personally never make a multiplayer game myself.
Because I'm australian.
pearl tangle
yeah its rather tough for us to get decent multiplayer communities there and then its expensive setting up server networks around the world to handle it
ok just got Ansel running on a build, pretty bloody awesome
clever sky
What's Ansel?
pearl tangle
lets you take screenshots, 360 photos etc from in game and move the camera around etc etc\
pearl tangle
you fire it up and it pauses the game and lets you do way way better screenshot stuff
clever sky
Probably because the name ansel is pretty much meaningless to me.
Might as well have called it; "Timothy'
So you got ansel running in VR?
Or for some other app?
pearl tangle
nah you cant run it in VR unless you customize a lot of stuff but that is my intention. its all accesible by blueprints so im going to make a controller panel for it which just embeds the controls there and lets you take 360 screenshots and stuff while playing
or use it to take the regular screenshots and stuff with the overlay settings and things
clever sky
Fair call.
So have a button in the menu that lets you use it?
Make the screen shot on button press?
wicked oak
@hard light plenty of the psvr games are singleplayer
its mostly that making a MP game is easier than making a singleplayer game
you need a campaign for a SP shooter
for a MP shooter you just need a few maps
and a whole lot of testing
if it was like old multiplayer shooters
like UT
wich came with a absolute shit ton of maps and modes
then yeah
but this days?
titanfall 1 released with 6 maps
and a few modes only
wicked oak
yeah, thats the problem with multiplayer games
if you are AAA, you are fine
for indies
its stupidly hard
wicked oak
yup
clever sky
Something like that.
wicked oak
as an indie, your biggest issue is market share
the fact that NO ONE knows you exist
what happens is that people see your indie MP game
clever sky
Your way is about as safe as it gets with multiplayer. Coop. Don't need balanced teams
wicked oak
and see "no one plays this"
clever sky
If you have crap lag, you don't get real complaints.
wicked oak
yeah, im more about the coop
the PvP mode is more of a extra thing, not serious and without matchmaking
but the indie MP cycle is:
launch
clever sky
$150 for Allegorithmic's indy pack right now.
clever sky
That's a pretty good price.
wicked oak
fuck this shit refund
clever sky
Yep.
wicked oak
and after launch, impossible to get seen
specially this days with steam barrier being so low
clever sky
Both good and bad.
wicked oak
unless it almost goes viral, like Onward, good luck
Onward went so good becouse its motherfucking ARMA inVR
and the ArmA crowd is very, VERY dedicated
so one of them sees it, and shows it to every vr friend he has
clever sky
Haha... well, there's quite a bit of merit to developing for a captive crowd.
clever sky
I wouldn't know. My connection was not working well with it.
wicked oak
you can build it in 2 weeks, at least the basics. But getting it right is harder
clever sky
I only got to try the locomotion
Which was IMO, overrated.
Better than most implementations mind you.
But... great to see that there's a player base out there that will put up with vection
to have free movement.
I guess!
wicked oak
i like the movement system i put in my game
clever sky
Yeah it's good.
wicked oak
onward works becouse you cant jump
add jumping to it, or high speed, and its a disaster
clever sky
I'd rate yours highly as far as teleportation mechanics go.
clever sky
Have you tried The Torus Syndicate?
Great shooter. Has a similar dash teleport. Except it's an 'on rails' experience.
Surprisingly fun, and surprisingly 'freeing'.
wicked oak
i did on rails before
its super simple becouse i made it in 6 days alone
but the point is clear
clever sky
Yeah, it's an easy mechanic.
wicked oak
i didnt add dash to this one becouse you can go through walls or objects
clever sky
But the trick is to build a good game around it.
clever sky
Not saying that your game wasn't good (haven't tried it).
Haven't tried the one you linked ๐
Tried the one you sent.
hahaha...
wicked oak
i can send you a link, if you want
but its what it is
the video shows all the game has
clever sky
Yeah, it's all good. Your latest efforts are substantially improved ๐
from what I can see!
wicked oak
this one IS oculus rift
it doesnt have a sticky grab system
so grabbing the guns in vive is super hard
clever sky
Yeah... the grip buttons on the Vive are kinda meh.
Ironically they work terribly as actual grip buttons.
I use them as a shift button.
wicked oak
i use them for teleporting, becouse that way you have to very seriously press them
and most of the time you are going to hold it for low time
clever sky
True.
wicked oak
but for something like those guns, wich are held all the time?
clever sky
Exactly.
wicked oak
hell nah
clever sky
I use them as a shift button though; because you can still press them inadvertantly in the heat of the moment.
At least if you're making a melee game or something like that.
And shift is a great way of saying; it does soemthing, but not anything important unless you press something else!
wicked oak
good idea
fallen wind
For guns n stuff you could use grip as a toggle for hold/drop, if you really wanna use grip for holding stuff, but otherwise the grip aren't too good for gripping stuff
clever sky
I've set my scheme up as trigger for grab, release for drop...
and the trick is
stuff that should stay in hand
stays in the hand. And to drop them, you use grip then trigger.
So you can grab a gun with trigger. Then pull the trigger to shoot.
Then grip+trigger to drop.
fallen wind
Seems like a good solution indeed
clever sky
Yeah. Works well; no errant drops
I designed it so I could grab swords and shields.
But I noticed when swinging your controllers hard, you still mis-press the grip
Because they're just there.
Wouldn't work for me to throw my sword or shield mid-swing.
wicked oak
on my VRMultigames, wich was done for vive, you grab things by clicking the grab button, but they stay there
clever sky
Yeah, you could go for time release.
wicked oak
how are you doing the swords and stuff?
ive been able to get a physical sword working more or less
but still kind of buggy
clever sky
Yeah, my sword was a bit buggy last I tested in 4.13
wicked oak
using both a constraint and a physics handle
and the actual sword being a rigid body
enemies DO block the hit
with their shield
clever sky
But it's basically just the BPPickupCube with additional interface and bools
wicked oak
but if you force it, it goes through....
clever sky
Continuous collision detection
Hmmm.
I'll have to test. But yeah, in 4.13 my swords would occasionally clip through without detection
Especially when swinging against a single block.
I haven't done any game logic with the sword/shield tho. I just have them more for interaction testing.
One thing I do like is that I've transferred the rumble from picked up objects.
So when you hit stuff with sword or the block or whatever else
you feel it
clever sky
Especially if you're gentle... the haptics are convincing enough to make it feel 'real'.
Facerig is completely useless for us isn't it? Like it doesn't export animation data....?
pearl tangle
pretty sure its just for people that want to do youtube shit but not show their face on it
its just using speech recognition stuff to animate the faces of pre made characters. can already do that in unreal through a few techniques if need be
clever sky
It's not doing a face capture?
Because you need a web cam for it.
I know Apple's got similar but better tech.
Because they bought out a company that was doing that.
pearl tangle
ah its probably doing some of that too then i thought that was just the audio 1
there are a bunch around, using a kinect or realsense you can get much better accuracy with that stuff
clever sky
Yeah. Fair call.
Just wondering if the good stuff has trickled down to us indies yet ๐
Although to be fair.
Actors are just expensive.
No getting around that.
Unless you want to try it yourself!
hahahah.... ah.
hard light
Facerig uses your webcam and does facial scanning to animate it's characters
it doesn't actually save anything though, it's not a mocap solution by any means
it just looks for points of interest and does it's best to interpolate the character mesh based on those
good results for what it wants to do, but by no means particularly accurate or useful
clever sky
Thanks for the summary
upbeat holly
thanks also
wintry escarp
anyone here?
I just got my gearvr, and the s7 doesn't fir in it
the phone fits in but the gear vr doesn't grip it
dusk vigil
sure you're doing it right? place the phone with the jack in one side, then kinda snapping it into place with the other clip?
wintry escarp
ok thanks, theres a little A/B thing to shrink the grip
dusk vigil
ah never noticed that
wintry escarp
movement is so much better than cardboard, rift must be great since its 50% faster again
dusk vigil
I like it. Plus sides, it's lighter and easier to have on your forehead if developing. Touches are great
Minus sides, no roomscale unless have extra sensors, and the view inside is a tad boxier feel than the vive
I recommend contacting oculus developer relations if you have a prototype ready, they will likely send you toys
wintry escarp
only annoyance is I will need to leave the hard case of my tough armour case off, just use the rubber bit
its hard to get on/off with the hard part clipped on
and phone wont go in gearvr without whole thing being removed
whats the best demos to try?
hard light
I prefer the Vive over the Rift, personally
unless you're talking about GearVR, which isn't strictly Oculus
dusk vigil
Smash Hit, Night Cafe, Ocean Rift, Vanguard V
( this is Gear Stuff ) i think the question above was about Oculus vs Vive yeah
wintry escarp
grrrr, I need to expand the A/B to get the cover back on
dusk vigil
They are both great toys, Oculus just shot themselves in the foot releasing without Touch and being so strict on NDA stuff, hobbled them a bit. But I reckon they will still dig in and find their place
That's odd, I don't remember having to fiddle with A/B stuff, except ah you seem to have some case thing on the phone
wintry escarp
i have S7, not S7 edge
gearvr was clearly designed for bigger note7/stedge
gearvr 2016
dusk vigil
ah the black model, I havent tried that one
Vanguard V is interesting to compare how much they had to cut to make it run on mobile
Here's a ( cardboard ) game by a friend of mine made with ShiVa engine : https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.silicondroid.galaxyvr
Note you probably want to get the switcher app that lets you switch between cardboard and oculus mode, unless they've managed to sort that out
Needs a gamepad though I think
dusk vigil
lolz murican disclaimers
clever sky
@upbeat holly Rift vs Vive at this point is much of a muchness really. Some pros and cons to both sides.
Main pros for Rift are access to Rift exclusives
Some of which are timed, and others permanent (mainly the ones that Oculus made themselves).
Rift can access the SteamVR and use all the titles fine.
But you'll get controller graphic mismatch.
Unless devs update the apps to detect the Rift and add the controllers themselves.
Vive can use Revive (third party workaround for store access of Oculus stuff from the Vive).
But it's not perfect, and more importantly, the Vive controllers are lacking some functionality
Although given the Revive work, most of the functionality is available (mainly missing the capacitative touch on the grip and trigger buttons).
Rift is... more comfortable as long as you have the right face and technique for putting it on.
Vive has better room scale.
Vive is more tempramental (stuff more likely to go wrong with it)
Rift requires more USB3 ports
Rift has a shorter cable, but it's a better cable (less likely to tangle, doesn't pull on you as much, less likely to snag, etc)
Basically... either way you go, you'll get a similar experience.
upbeat holly
thanks guys
upbeat holly
much appreciated
mighty carbon
@smilertoo#8988 try Jurassic World on Gear VR
clever sky
Display size (diagonal) ใ3.42 inches
Resolution format ใ1440 x RGB x 1700
Pixels per inch ใ651ppi
Refresh rate ใ90Hz
Response time ใ3 msec (black-to-white)
ใ6 msec (worst case)
Brightness ใ150cd/m2 (with 10% duty rate blinking backlight)
Contrast ratio ใ700:1 (Typ.)
upbeat holly
then why is the rift like 2 times the price?
clever sky
Then get the Vive ๐
upbeat holly
oculus is ยฃ529
clever sky
easy peasy!
upbeat holly
lulz
pearl tangle
you need to get the third camera for it as well
wicked oak
but i would 100% get an oculus right now
pearl tangle
and extension cables
clever sky
@upbeat holly Also the price you've listed probably doesn't include the controllers.
wicked oak
third camera is if you are going with a big roomscale
pearl tangle
yeah definitely needs the third camera. too easy to occlude with the 2
i was playing robo recall the other day with just 2 and kept occluding all the time
clever sky
Is that an opposite corner setup?
pearl tangle
nah they had them both on the front since oculus only came up with the opposing corner design recently so epic hasn't been building for that
clever sky
Anyway, you guys kinda missed the VR display panel news ๐ next gen res potentially 1700 x 1440 per eye.
Decent upgrade compared to the current 1280 x 1080
pearl tangle
yeah that seems pretty likely. I would still prefer they bump it up further and just dont render the games that high but should help the screen door a bit
pearl tangle
but definitely I will be grabbing an extra 2 cameras for the touch to stop the occlusion problem
just annoying with cables all over the shop
clever sky
How bigs your space?
pearl tangle
4*4m
clever sky
Yeah, definetly need 3
wicked oak
yup
thas quite big
a problem the vive has is that it only allows 2 sensors
and its finnicky as hell
clever sky
Yeah, Vive is pretty finnicky
wicked oak
they need to be facing each other, and any kind of reflective surface can murder your tracking
pearl tangle
yeah but even with the 2 i was using the other day the play area they had for it was like 1.5m*1.5m on the rift with the touch and i kept getting the chaperone thing coming on constantly and occluding
wicked oak
also the headset doesnt have sensors on its back
clever sky
@pearl tangle How high were those cameras mounted?
Apparently the height makes a big diff.
pearl tangle
i haven't had any issues with reflective surfaces with the lighthouses before. next year they will be releasing the pro version which will let you plug in 4+ lighthouses
they had them on a table about 2m apart
pearl tangle
hah well you would assume epic would have figured out the right way to do it hah
clever sky
Or on the same desk? ๐
pearl tangle
same desk, so both at the front so definitely would occlude when you turn around but thats not oculus plan
wicked oak
ah, the 2 frontal camera thing
clever sky
I think they're trying to mimic typical setup
rather than ideal setup
Where as I'm not that considerate.
"Hey Rift user, I don't give a shit, you play in room scale or not at all!"
pearl tangle
yeah because thats how oculus said it should work
so thats the way its configured at the moment. im sure before release they will work on some different options to handle the camera arrangements better
clever sky
๐ just kidding. My stuff works independently of all that BS. It'll just better if you have proper room tracking.
pearl tangle
the rift cameras have no abilty to remove the stand and put onto a mount or anything do they?\
clever sky
Yeah they do.
They unscrew from the stand and get screwed into the standard whatever tripod screw
5/8" or something like that?
don't quote me.
pearl tangle
oh thats handy then. so can use the vive mounts for it potentially
clever sky
I've actually just wedged the base in between a crack between two badly mounted shelves.
Works swimmingly! ๐
hard light
I find the Vive's sensors work great
we have it set up in a 6m by 6m space here and no issues at all
yes, there are no sensors in the back of the headset, but it isn't an issue if you have your sensors at opposite sides of the playing space
hard light
well, if you cover the headset with both hands, what do you expect :p?
clever sky
A design that more robust against common occlusion causing motions!
hard light
I can't say I've ever noticed any real issues like that, and I use it almost every day
clever sky
It's not that bad though. I'm just saying, it's not perfect! ๐
Much worse for me is that when the controllers switch on, they have mad drift for the first 5 seconds.
And if I'm to be honest, that's not that bad.
mighty carbon
So, when is second generation of desktop VR is coming ?
clever sky
I just swing my arms back and forth between the two lighthouses
like a warm up routine.
pearl tangle
yeah ive noticed the rift can handle the tracking a bit better when people have their hands on both sides of it
seems to be a common issue i run into when putting people into the vive they want to hold the headset but was just demoing the rift a minute ago and people were all doing that and didn't have an issue
id say its likely we start to see modifications for wireless headsets getting outside of china end of next year
clever sky
@mighty carbon Wouldn't expect anything before 2018. Possibly even as long as 2019.
pearl tangle
oculus will probably start to push out their standalone headset early 2018 or something
clever sky
Latest by 2020...
mighty carbon
Aye
pearl tangle
hololens and magic leap will majorly be in the market by 2020 and microsoft VR headsets will probably making up a large portion of the market
clever sky
We'll see. I think people will quickly come to realize the limitations that hand tracked control schemes impose on good experiences.
So... Microsoft had better start supporting good controller designs in addition to hand tracking.
Magic Leap is... ehhhh....uhh... hmmmm... great display (apparently), but not powered by PC, development ecosystem is like ???, cost is ??? and the CEO is ??!??!
And the CEO's main claim to fame is starting another company in another field getting hype investment money... then bailing.
mighty carbon
Magic Leap is a vaporware imo
pearl tangle
magic leap works the same as hololens. embedded computer
clever sky
Honestly, I'd like it to be something. The display sounds amazing. Like a couple gen leap ahead in HMDs. But so much else about it sounds suss.
hard light
Hololens needs to demonstrate a serious leap in it's hardware capabilities before I could take it seriously
pearl tangle
pretty much every industry and financial analyst would disagree with you motorsep
hololens is incredible at what it does. I tried out a $20000 Daqri headset last week and its FOV is about double the hololens
hard light
it has some limited use cases in industrial work, but as a general purpose AR device? It's just not that capable
pearl tangle
costs a lot of money to get the FOV higher but at the moment its enough for developers to understand the capability and start figuring stuff out the same way we did with the DK2
dk1 was pretty rubbish but got people thinking about how it works. hololens is at that stage
pearl tangle
magic leap has better optics in it but aside from that its the same as hololens
FOV is similar though
clever sky
Honestly though... hololens uses are kinda obvious. Gimme those floating screens son.
upbeat holly
also magic leap werent they using some lightfield tech?
hard light
yeah, but Microsoft's statement has been that Hololens isn't going to improve dramatically in terms of hardware, which has me somewhat concerned
clever sky
Everything else is like... eh, that's nice gravy.
hard light
I know what Microsoft are like to just dump hardware overnight before developing it properly
upbeat holly
yup lol
pearl tangle
thats because they want people to buy the current 1s and not wait for the next generation to come along before getting into it
upbeat holly
what about novel uses for hololens?
pearl tangle
hopefully I will get Unreal up and running with the hololens in another week or 2
upbeat holly
sick ๐
pearl tangle
hololens is still fun for games. but needs a better control input
clever sky
We're just not going to get the super amazing holographic scifi AR until we have sufficient processing power, sufficient image recognition capabilities and battery life.
pearl tangle
current method is just mouse click
upbeat holly
sure but still for designers can be useful
clever sky
Like Dennou Coil; kids running around seeing AR ghosts. That's 10-15 years out ๐
pearl tangle
for industrial and interior designers its great
for artists vr is going to be better for a fair while
hard light
I'd rather see an AR headset tethered to a PC
pearl tangle
there is 1
hard light
where the processing power exists to do shit properly
pearl tangle
meta
it uses peppers ghost for the images too so FOV is about 4x the hololens
but that means the quality of them is not as good
upbeat holly
meta is cool as f
clever sky
As a guy with interior design background...
I'm honestly not sure how AR is supposed to help me that much.
hard light
meta isn't bad, but I'm not sure they'll take off
upbeat holly
what bout something like Nview@hard light
pearl tangle
you can walk around in the space and place the holograms straight in there and demonstrate it to the clients on the fly
hard light
I'm unfamiliar with nview?
pearl tangle
nah meta will disappear. they cant beat the tracking and spatialization capabilities of hololens and cant touch the visual fidelity of magic leap
clever sky
I guess, if they have a shell of a building and haven't got anything inside it yet.
hard light
I also wish meta wasn't tied to Unity, that's also annoying
upbeat holly
its like a nvidia os, that allows you to connect from a mobile, tablet etc to pc
but apparently has optimization to make it fast
they are still working on it
hard light
let people build directly for the hardware, or use other engines :/
pearl tangle
well thats what interior designers are doing quite often. I studied architecture and i used to 3d print things a lot to get ideas across to people. as soon as vr got better i stopped using my 3d printers
clever sky
But easier to do that kind of concept visualization in VR IMO.
Bring them to office, and done.
pearl tangle
well hololens has only done plugins for unity too because Tim Sweeny had a massive bitch about the UWP
but unreal does work on hololens
yeah but much better to let them walk around the actual consutrction site and see where the wall is and then change it on the fly
upbeat holly
yea!