well the quadros......
#virtual-reality
upbeat holly
clever sky
@wicked oak Cool...
Instead of splitting it into 5 sections, 4 on the outside... 1 full res in the middle... it splits it into 4 predistorted quadrants
Clever.
upbeat holly
i wonder how that works with Foveated rendering
clever sky
@upbeat holly Works in place of it
This is foveated rendering pre eye tracking tech 😛
upbeat holly
sure
wicked oak
the cool thing is that this only uses 4 sections
clever sky
Except it's not, because it's not tracking the eye and taking advantage of that fact 😛
wicked oak
multires is 9 sections
upbeat holly
yea thats what i mean like will Foveated rendering replace it etc
but its an approximation right? @clever sky
clever sky
Nvidia already have foveated rendering working properly. Even fancier!
winged shale
Quadro is BS. Not actually that optimized for much anything, just rebranding at a much higher price
mighty carbon
I am not sure what you are going to use your GPU for @upbeat holly , but I am certain 1070 will be plenty for rendering in Blender Cycles, sculpting multimillion tris models, working with UE4 and enjoying VR, not to mention all conventional game should run smooth on 1070.
clever sky
And uses a different technique again (although uses the multi-res base)
upbeat holly
@mighty carbon Thanks man
@mighty carbon I dont use blender, I use heavy scan data (100M+ polys)
clever sky
@winged shale Surely there's some sort of specialist use for an additional XXGB of vram?
winged shale
Yeah but that's about it, not worth 600 to 5000 dollar price increase
clever sky
When you could be running in quad SLI
upbeat holly
yea it depends on the job tho right, if you need it you need it
clever sky
for the same price 😛
upbeat holly
yea but SLI is like blehhhhhh
winged shale
It is better on Pascal
upbeat holly
lal
clever sky
Hey, if your specialist application needs dozens of gigs of ram, then it might be able to take advantage of SLI too 😛
upbeat holly
nah its cant
clever sky
What about neural net stuff?
upbeat holly
😛
winged shale
But there is no reason to use a 5000 dollar Quadro instead of using a bunch of GP100 In NVLINK in a server style computer
clever sky
I'm pretty sure Nvidia advertised a big CUDA box with multi-SLI titans a few years ago
upbeat holly
ye
clever sky
Yeah... the quadro is a really dumb buy nowadays.
upbeat holly
but you need the space for the server farm
winged shale
No you don't
clever sky
But that's more a result of Nvidia stepping over its own toes with its enthusaist consumer cards.
upbeat holly
if its at a premium then maybe quadro do better?
upbeat holly
ye but how many do you need for the same as 24gb tesla?
winged shale
One box.
clever sky
What kind of application would need that much ram but not the commensurate processing power to go with it?
upbeat holly
o rly?
winged shale
You can stack the cards with NVLINK
winged shale
On mobile look up gp100 nvlink
mighty carbon
that's what's new in Pascal
upbeat holly
sweet
neon egret
Yo, idk if that's an already existing, needed, non-needed, non-wanted, etc PR, but I added one to add a new WindowMirrorMode for the Vive, so
you can have a horizontal mirror, instead of the vertical one:
upbeat holly
lol
wicked oak
@neon egret do you know how can i do that with Oculus?
there is a bug monoscopic window (3), but it has corners
wicked oak
i would like to zoom it
neon egret
I read that MirrowMode 4 works for the rift :x
wicked oak
i couldnt fix some problems with navigation on my AI (they can jump and fall from the map) so i added a killswitch
the things you do to upload a playable alpha....
just checking every second if there is a navmesh below
no navmesh 3 times, receive 99999 damage
neon egret
Shouldn't kill Z take care of falling actors?
wicked oak
they get stuck in level geometry
and i can just do a killz in such vertical levels
i can addd killz volumes, but i would need to add a good bunch of them
you were right, oculus does have mirrormode 4
is basically the vertical one but more zoom
clever sky
@wicked oak is it better to add a kill switch to the actor, or a trigger volume that does the same thing as actors overlap it?
wicked oak
i need it to work asap, so....
it has a TODO fixme
for later
the killswitch is so i dont add to add a shit ton of trigger volumes
and they get stuck on places like ledges
clever sky
Fair call!
wicked oak
uhm,. gonna try launching them forward
when that happens
as a "intermediate" stuck check
if they still cant return to a navmesh, kill them
pearl tangle
for the guys that have the Oculus Touch already, whats been your experiences with non gamers using them? I just tried them out today and definitely much more complex to get used to than the vive controllers, feels a lot more like learning a new game controller
hard light
I've not used it much, but that was also my general impression; I found it a fair bit less intuitive
they're also kind of lightweight?
I don't think they had enough heft to them, but that's subjective, I guess
pearl tangle
yeah they weren't uncomfortable to use but did feel more complicated. it's odd that the capacative sensor for the thumb is not on the thumbstick itself actually
hard light
cables and moving parts
pearl tangle
robo recall was good fun to play around with but definitely noticed the small play area becoming a big problem with it when i would try and move slightly and it would go be out of range
hard light
I've only done standing with it, but yeah, we had problems with the Oculus cameras doing 'room scale' here before
they're just not built for that, and as such they don't have a wide enough field of view
pearl tangle
i know they are now saying they can do room scale with it but the cable is incredibly short on the headset so you end up buying a bunch more cables, a third or fourth camera and the controllers and suddenly you are now $250 more expensive than the rift
yeah i would be interested to see how it goes with having the cameras on opposing corners of the room rather than both in front
hard light
I feel like they're trying to play catch-up with the Vive and implemented it in the easiest / quickest way they could
as a result it's a little half baked
clever sky
Gotta remember that lag time.... they'd been working on this stuff for yonks
And then Vive dropped with its room scale
and Oculus were all... fuck
But then, this is what happens when you put Palmer in charge of the controllers!
upbeat holly
😄
Thanks for the info guys
i knew something was up with the way it was being marketed
but still Oculus touch and Zbrush style VR is a critical part of the future
CANT WAIT
Looks so damn sweet
need to sculpt in VR
fallen wind
Hello, I just got a Vive, set it up, and it's working fine in the steamvr demo and games, but when I try to run the UE4 vr starter bp setup, and go to the motion controller scene, the hands are just stuck in the floor while the head tracking works fine, any idea what might fix this?
clever sky
Surprised to here that you guys think the 'touch' is more complicated though... all the impressions I've gotten so far is that it's... 'more transparent in your hands'.
Maybe that refers more to the way it feels than user friendliness.
upbeat holly
@clever sky I mean just look at it, the whole button setup thing is kinda outdated
clever sky
How so?
upbeat holly
its not a natural way to think about controlling something right?
its like
a trigger button type thing i could understand a lot more
I think it takes more cognitive computation and therefore longer to use a button type control setup
you want to keep those type of things to a minimum
upbeat holly
ye
clever sky
That doesn't really ring true with my own understanding of HCI
buttons are useful
tactile is useful.
Much easier to feel out.
upbeat holly
I trust you more than myself 😄
clever sky
😛
clever sky
I mean, both the touch pad and the touch style stick/button setup
have their pros and cons.
clever sky
But what I am seeing are novice VR devs trying to mimic stick/button functionality with the touchpad.
upbeat holly
Its really more to do with the cognitive process, there are more factors involved with understanding and using a touchpad than a stick trigger type thing
clever sky
Well... depends on the design...
clever sky
Problem with the vive touchpad is that it's a big smooth dish.
And to be honest, the haptic isn't detailed enough to render it as multiple smaller buttons
without you looking.
upbeat holly
yea that sounds crazy
clever sky
So it works best as a big button.
But then that limits functionality.
They really should've added some notches to the cardinal directions
so that you could feel out the directions.
upbeat holly
hmmm good idea
clever sky
I mean, it's a pretty neat input device, a lot of flexibility to it. But it's also sitting on prime real estate.
I think at this point in time... touch is probably as intuitive as VR controllers are going to get. And that's considering hand tracking alternatives like leap motion.
Which is to say that VR controls are going to have a learning curve, no ifs and buts 😛
Problem with hand tracking is that they need to be in view.
And lack haptics totally.
upbeat holly
leap motion is cool i have it, doesnt work with multi screens tho
really really fun tho
clever sky
Yeah. I've got the leap motion too 😛
upbeat holly
there is an add on for haptics i think like finger buzzers type things
clever sky
Haven't used it much. Not enough support, and I'm not particularly interested in supporting it myself 😛
upbeat holly
ye ikr
upbeat holly
Its necessary for full immersion in the new metaverse
clever sky
is where you gonna put your controllers when you're trying to use just your hand?
upbeat holly
you know where
clever sky
I don't want to know where.
upbeat holly
I think you do
clever sky
Anyway... it's problematic using just hands, as soon as you want to use 'tools'.
upbeat holly
yea i dont know those but probably
Like imagine a sword controller....
shaped like an actual sword
clever sky
Haha...
That reminds me that I velcroed my Vive controllers
on to my wooden training katana
upbeat holly
hwahawhaha
clever sky
for use with ZenBlade
That was good fun.
Super dangerous and not exactly stable though
clever sky
Check out this motion controller I designed before Vive announced...
upbeat holly
link pls
upbeat holly
nice!
clever sky
It has all the buttons!
Also called the grip button!
And the best part is not clearly visible unfortunately...
upbeat holly
its gun shaped also which also helps
clever sky
But it has a clip-in attachment system on the bottom.
The red button on the bottom back side is the release button.
The attachment system is for batteries and accessories... accessories like a bloody huge haptic feedback thing.
upbeat holly
or a silencer
clever sky
These guys... they make a haptic feedback motor that gives a realistic recoil to guns.
upbeat holly
i need it
clever sky
Imagine that thing attached to the controller. Fuck yeah.
upbeat holly
o sweet god thats awesome
clever sky
But no, we don't have controllers like that. D:
upbeat holly
have you seen the immersive warehouse thing?
clever sky
You mean Zero Latency?
upbeat holly
yup
clever sky
Been there
upbeat holly
lol
clever sky
back in October last year.
Uhmmmm.... I had a great time.
But in the retrospection of a full year of VR, it was a pretty shit experience 😛
I imagine that they've improved a lot of it.
Like at the time the gun was tracked with a single bulb
upbeat holly
So its for basic bitches?
clever sky
Looks like the PSVR move controllers, but apparently it's a custom bulb
And that shit.
Lost tracking sooooo sooo much.
Not lost tracking, it's tracking drifted.
It was 45 degrees (not a typo) off target.
Also, although it had nice heft to the controller... it didn't actually feature haptics!
So disappoint! 😛
Also the game itself was trash. Simplistic stuff, basic scoring.
That was reported after the game was over 😛
upbeat holly
yea sure its sad but necessary to appeal to a wide audience right?
clever sky
Probably. Was too easy. Apparently we kicked its ass in the group I went with.
I guess it needs to be playable by normal people!
To be fair, I imagine that they've improved the game a lot. They probably only had a few months of dev time on the game at that point.
upbeat holly
i dunno it still looks like doom from the 90s
clever sky
And they have added a second bulb to the gun.
upbeat holly
Starcitizen VR thats wat i need
mighty carbon
doesn't Touch or Vive sticks have haptic feedback ?
clever sky
As for the most important part... the locomotion. Felt great, as long as you had enough space...
It's... it's a lot more like giant room scale.... than it is unlimited locomotion.
I mean, because that's precisely what it is.
So the game had to fit the movement within the warehouse... for indoor sections that was fine. But for out door sections, the limitation was very obvious.
clever sky
@mighty carbon Yeah they do.
But the quality of the haptic is to be expected for the size of the motors.
The strikerVR thing I linked to has a kick that is equivalent to an M-16 or similar AR.
Like... you could use that for more than just guns. Like a sword swing and hitting something - that'd be a convincing whack.
upbeat holly
hwahahahaha
still need a sword controller
katana for sure
need to fulfil my inner samurai fantasy
mighty carbon
true, but the problem is A. Striker VR isn't even ready B. even if it was ready, it would be cumbersome to use since you already have hands full with motion controllers.
upbeat holly
Wouldnt it replace? @mighty carbon
clever sky
Well the point I was making is... if you had a controller like the one I designed and stuck that striker VR haptic on it, it'd be a pretty decent sword controller.
Because of the haptic and because you can't see the controller when you're in VR!
But it'd have enough heft!
clever sky
It's a straight handle!
upbeat holly
needs to have authentic turtleskin grip
mighty carbon
@upbeat holly if supporting app/game is all about shooting and never letting go of the rifle, yeah. But it's VR, so I personally want to experience it with and without rifle during the same session
upbeat holly
OOOO
clever sky
Just orient the hilt to the handle and it'll feel decent!
mighty carbon
This is why I don't like buying plugins for UE4 https://forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?88541-Plugin-Auto-Save-Game&p=627842&viewfull=1#post627842
upbeat holly
@clever sky yea but can it be done?
clever sky
Yes and no? Yes, it's technically possible. No, the devices don't exist right now, nor will they without significant funding...
upbeat holly
😛
mighty carbon
I don't know, but UE4 lags a way behind
wicked oak
you can do that on ue4
its just stupidly hard
becouse you would need to open a second window, in a multiplayer setting
so the VR headset is the "server" and the secondary window is a client
then you move the client wich is set as spectator where you cant
of course, doing that would completely murder your vr performance
but you could do it on LAN
no issues there
but then you have to have your game fully work MP...
clever sky
Is that how Unity does it?
hard light
Unity has mirror modes implemented properly; it basically has a mirror mode where the 'flat' view is a completely different camera with different controls (a bit like split screen)
mighty carbon
o/
upbeat holly
see ya
pearl tangle
mixed reality is my first question in the UDN hah
been trying to get a better setup for that without running multiplayer for ages
you can also modify the engine source to pull in a different render to texture target relatively easily too if you wanted
definitely the owlchemy guys have pushed it a long way
the dynamic lighting stuff looks a little bit odd though
winged shale
Guys! Rock the vote! Go vote on the UE4 VR board on Trello to get VR mixed reality to be a thing!!
https://trello.com/b/gHooNW9I/ue4-roadmap
silk lodge
wait, they're actualy considering it!??!
winged shale
FW Renderer makes it easier to instance another lower res camera
That's a link to the card, let's upvote it like we're deplorables
winged shale
It's getting better all the time
winged shale
MSAA isn't great, FWR for only having worked on it for a few months is pretty darn good
silk lodge
and don't tell anybody 😃
winged shale
FWR +TXAA looks pretty damn nice, despite missing dynamic light shadows
Also with it the way it is I got my frame times down to 3.5ms from 9ms
winged shale
It's like the early days of game dev, we work with the tech to make things look awesome, let's be the original VR hackers and come up with non-brute force ways to make games better looking within the constraints!
spring pond
I love the fwd renderer. Huge win for us, so crisp
ripe vault
Hello guys! Question: Do any guides/tutorials exist for implementing swiping action using google's daydream controller? I'm looking for something a little more detailed than this: https://developers.google.com/vr/unreal/daydream-in-unreal . Thank you for your time.
winged shale
Dope as shit. I had a dream last last night about a DOOM VR multiplayer thing, and this reminds me of that awesome dream
Maybe if the enemies were more reactive, like shooting at the shield guys maybe they flinch more each shot, until they're vulnerable
The flying death Valkyrie thing also should flinch, you should feel some kind of agency by harming these undead
wicked oak
im on it, in fact
for a different game, i did physical animations when hitting them
check this out
the enemies
but those enemies are unreal whiteguy with a different texture
so i could reuse its physics asset
the skeletons and stuff have their own, so physical animation goes wrong real fast
winged shale
Hmmm
wicked oak
trailer doesnt show, but sword blows to enemies actually make them flinch and stuns them
winged shale
Also the sounds are a little cheesy, maybe do some randomization and attenuation
wicked oak
ill have to add random ones if you do enough damage
oh hell yes
they are a goddamn disaster
winged shale
Hahaha
wicked oak
they are already random
and already have their attenuation
they are just fucking trash
ive done them myself after all, by editing some from other stuff
or marketplace packs
ill have to hire a sound engineer to properly do them
winged shale
Hehe. Also don't forget the power of ambient sound in your game, I can't tell if it's there but it's super important
Helps you spatialize yourself a lot, like the air should be ringing with very low volume pink noise, and any huge walls should have a slight windy when you get close to them
Otherwise it looks badass. I would play the shit out of it if it had multiplayer co-op and an infinite mode that I could play without it getting too repetitive
winged shale
Yeah. Lol for flooritorium I added a fridge loop and it made the game go from unsettling to comfortable in 1.6 seconds
Also lol unreal white guy
wicked oak
well, he is white
and he is a guy
guess where i grabbed the animations on the blue guys in the gameplay vide
ok the video is now on youtube
it even gave it a cool preview image
winged shale
Nice.
Does Unreal give out those awesome headers?
Like the first few seconds of the video
Makes it seem very legit
wintry escarp
still waiting for my free gearvr
lusty tiger
question , getting my vive this BlackFriday . I want to start now developing. Am I able to load up the FPS shooter template build some stuff then later on implement the VR pawn?
like if i want to test out collision detection and stuff like that shooting a gun should i just use a FPS template then add the VR pawn later?
wintry escarp
far as I know switching ue4 to vr is just a matter of enabling the relevant plugin
you can easily start now
lusty tiger
so what was i reading about keeping the scale a certain way or something
i just wanna start making some stuff while i wait but dont want it to be out of scale too small too big etc
so i was gonna base it off the
FPS template
unless thats not the same size of VR templatwe
winged shale
You don't want to have anything set in stone.
You need to play with stuff and learn what works and what doesnt
lusty tiger
mk
clever sky
@lusty tiger What do you mean keeping the scale a certain way? You mean like keeping it scaled to real world dimensions?
You should (and actually all VR devs should) pick up an ergonomics handbook.
That lets you know the sizes and proportions of things
That are reasonable to most of the population.
My interior design background helps out a lot here 😛
digital marlin
Yeah we got one in the office.
The headset and the individual lens is awesome
Vive - pls..
Not a bad effort - would like to see Leap integrated properly, but I suppose the next version will build off that.
mighty carbon
does Valve still send out Vive to devs free of charge?
jagged vale
epic ran dry, not sure if valve themselves do
mighty carbon
yeah, I know about Epic 😦
well, maybe Oculus will still be friendly to VR devs next year 😃
mighty carbon
I don't have VR GPU
jagged vale
but you'll need to have a registered organization/company or something
mighty carbon
planning on getting it Q1 or Q2 of 2017
jagged vale
i haven't tried a rift, but i'm getting the impression that the vive is the better headset, and even though it's price is higher you get a lot more (motion controllers, room-scale equipment)
so.. might be cheaper all things considered
mighty carbon
eeh, Rift is better
jagged vale
it'd have to have room-scale for me to consider it, they're by far the best games
mighty carbon
and eventually SteamVR will have all important Oculus SDK features
I don't have room to have room experience
nor care for it with wired VR
standing on the spot works equally well with Vive and Rift
and right now best games are on Rift (especially with Touch and titles like Robo Recall and Lone Echo)
aesthetically Rift/Touch is better than Vive IMO
Once games from Rift migrate to Vive, it will be more of a personal preference than technical differences
(right now Rift has ASW, but Vive just got ATW-like stuff, so who knows how it measures up against ATW and if Valve will get ASW-like feature out soon)
jagged vale
with the way people talked about the wired experience i really expected it to be a big deal, but i don't mind it at all, it's a non-issue, and i don't have any out of the ordinary setup
i figured i'd be buying that wireless addon if it actually worked well, but nope
i also don't really want to support oculus when they're promoting a closed environment, valve/vive are actively supporting VR and it's future
mighty carbon
lol, politics 🙄
you support Microsoft, don't you?!
Oculus supports high quality VR and its future even more than Valve does
that "freedom" and openness comes at a price, and we, indies, are paying it
btw, Oculus works on Steam just fine
so, no one stops you from using Rift exclusively with Steam and not with Oculus Store
mighty carbon
I have nothing against Oculus
I've been using / devving for Gear VR.. Just want to get into desktop development as mobile VR is just pain in the ass to work with.
jagged vale
i thought since you said rift is better you had used both 😛
mighty carbon
I don't need to use them to see what I like
plus I trust vblanco's feedback on VR HMDs, since he has all of them
winged shale
That's... Bullshit?
Just try them at the stores, there's Vives at the Microsoft stores in malls, and there's Rifts at the Best Buy stores
And there's lots of people out there that want to show you the magic of VR, just find one of them
clever sky
Motorsep, You'll change your tune so quickly once you get used to roomscale.
It's like the difference between black and white and color, or SD and HD.
Ain't no going back!
winged shale
Nobody with a Vive wants to play seated experiences with it
digital marlin
Let me put it this way.
I have two (2!) rifts in my office.
In boxes. The Vive is setup.
I think Vive won the first round, but it's almost pointless to argue.
Rift will come out with something soon and we'll be like, 'Whoa!' then Vive will do it and etc etc.
granite jacinth
PSVR is the best VR anyway
mighty carbon
I don't want to try them in store - thanks to that eye herpes
digital marlin
lol
granite jacinth
Don't know wtf you newbs are talking about
Have you seen the amazing VR Experience in the PSVR?!
winged shale
Yeah. At my lab we had a Rift just sitting in its shipping box for months. They sent it to us. For free. And we didn't care because we set up the Vives. Then we opened the box, tried it out, and it's gathering dust still.
granite jacinth
You have to UPGRADE your brand new PS4 to a PRO version
That's how awesome and unique it is
digital marlin
lol
mighty carbon
@winged shale I want to play seated when a game calls for it, and I'd play standing if, again, a game calls for it. But I am don't have a room to walk around.
granite jacinth
VR is fucked anyway
AR/MR is where the real money will be
AR more than MR imho
Everyone has a PC in their pockets
Just add some AR cameras to a phone and viola
AR in everyone's pockets
mighty carbon
@digital marlin if you are not planning opening Rift boxes, do you mind sending me one ? 😉
digital marlin
@mighty carbon haha they're not mine. The business. We do tend to use them from time to time, but we're not deving with them at the moment. We'll dev for both.
mighty carbon
I don't see how AR/MR will be any better, for gaming, than VR
winged shale
@digital marlin Indeed. I'm developing for both, because the ecosystem needs it. And because my game works for both play types.
digital marlin
Nah I see it as a marketing thing TBH
er.. content creation, I mean, not marketing per say
mighty carbon
I have no desire to go out in public and "play". I'd rather play games at home, where no one bothers me and I don't interfere with other people
winged shale
I would argue that VR will turn into AR. You can add light, but it is very hard to take it away.
mighty carbon
btw, maybe VR is fucked .... 20 years from now 😃 Meanwhile there is a lot of time to make money with VR 😃
winged shale
With proper sensing, HMDs can just reconstruct the world to whatever you want
jagged vale
i think it's too early for anyone to have a firm handle on whether VR is fucked or not
winged shale
And I don't think VR is fucked yet.
digital marlin
yeah absolutely
What I'd like to see - wireless, no-blur peripheral vision, & lighter
winged shale
It's so coming soon
winged shale
VR wave 1 was only for devs and early adopters. VR wave 2 is consumer wave.
jagged vale
if VR becomes a lot cheaper and more mainstream, i think it's cinematic/story-telling potential would go through the roof
games aside
winged shale
Wave 2 is either the consumer wave or it's going to stagnate. I'm worried about this Christmas season and all the moms buying their kids Oculus Veevs
And all the asses who have only tried out Cardboard and say that they think VR is bust.
Or the kinds of people who frequently say "Killer app"
winged shale
Daydream I hope will be that gateway
Getting my headsets Monday so let's hope it's cool
I'm going to spend some fuck off time and make a couple of Daydream apps, I want to contribute the best I can do quickly to the ecosystem
digital marlin
Any ideas yet?
jagged vale
getting new computer chair tomorrow or monday, then i can get to work on my VR ideas 😄
digital marlin
Tell you what - the IKEA VR experience was a hugely missed opportunity IMO
How do you not replicate the sims with Ikea furniture?
winged shale
Yeah, one is "Santa the Snowman," it's this trippy as fuck thing where you use the Daydream remote to pelt kids with snowballs as they try to steal your presents
digital marlin
lol
winged shale
And another is "Dusk" and "Dawn", both of which are cinematic relaxation tools in the same app that basically respectively trash you or bring you up, with environmental effects to complement the mood
Dusk will say stuff like, "where did you go wrong" and "why does everyone seem to ignore you"
"you're not as smart as you think you are" all this stuff just floating in space with you, voice acted and everything
And the stars will all wink out slowly
clever sky
People he shitting the bed about VR's future? Who's the shit stirrer?
reads through comments of course, our good friends Vic and Motorsep! 😛
winged shale
And everyone's gonna be all "why the fuck did anyone make this what the hell man this is horrible and I feel bad" and others will praise it as a modern VR art, and none of them will know that it's just for the lulz
Muahahahahaa
clever sky
Yeah. Wonder what they were doing
winged shale
Richie's Plank Experience
He tried to grab a thing in the background by jumping for it
lavish tiger
digital marlin
lol
native cedar
does VRworks have multires aswell? Any difference between getting ue4.13 multires branch or ue4.13 vrworks branch?
pearl tangle
pretty sure it should have it in there yeah. You can do a diff on the files and see if its in there or not
native cedar
it is there
weird
they made a branch with all the features and another with just multires
is lens matched shading and single pass stereo actually any useful? According to what they say everything is a #massiveperformanceimprovement but the only difference I really saw was when I enabled multires
pearl tangle
well they did the multires branch before they did the vrworks 1
have they got the VR SLI in the vrworks 1 yet?
i haven't played around with the single pass stereo and things but probably dependent on the content and stuff that you have as to how beneficial it is or not
fallen talon
yeah, SLI is in the vrworks graphics branch
I wonder if it is possible to work via repo with cross engine version (regular non-source ue4.13 and vrworks 4.13) or if everyone has to have the exact same engine installation
that'd be a pain in the arse
wicked oak
the problem with the vrworks branch
nothing is explained
at all
so there are all this extra commands
but you arent sure what do they do
or how to use them correctly
ive tried to do it at random, but got problems when mixing some of them
native cedar
is there anywhere where one can at least read the list of console commands?
or do we have to figure out by typing randomly
clever sky
Does anyone else read VR-SLI as 'Ver-sly'? 😛
native cedar
Sorry to disappoint you, nay
hard light
I read it as 'very silly'
pearl tangle
i will have to have a play with it once i get home and see how much of a benefit the sli gives with 2 1080s
native cedar
meh, nvidia vrworks 4.13 branch failed to build with vs2015
pearl tangle
hmm 4.13 should go fine on 2015. Might have to change around some of the build options
native cedar
setup.bat asked me to overwrite some files and I said yes, I'll try saying no
build configuration is the standard x64 development editor
clever sky
You guys with a Vive should try The Torus Syndicate. Great shooter. A bit short right now, but fun as hell.
winged shale
Anyone tried Calcflow? Looks like just the thing I need to visualize my vector maths
clever sky
I was going to mock it... but honestly looks like it could be useful
for grasping at tougher 3D maths concepts.
Save me hours sitting down at a desk sketching vectors badly 😛
But also it looks kinda basic at this point. Almost more like a few maths toys
I wonder if you can export those vector fields though.
Could use it to create interesting particle effects in Unreal
hard light
Torus Syndicate, you say
clever sky
Yes 😛 tried it?
hard light
nope
had to google it
google came up with some insurance company called starstone instead !?
it looks alright
clever sky
Hahaha D:
hard light
the assets look familiar
clever sky
It's not getting much hype.
But the mechanics are solid.
Yeah, they're synty studios simple assets.
hard light
aha
clever sky
All over the damn place. But they're fairly solid and better yet, easy as hell to make new assets that fit that style.
hard light
yeah
it does put me off a bit when I recognise the assets in games though
especially when similar games use the same assets xD
seems VR is rife with that
clever sky
Yeah. I've used those assets in my own stuff!
But setting aside the simplicity of the assets, it's pretty consistent, and most importantly, the core mechanics work well.
I designed the reload mechanic they're using now! 😛
By which I mean, I bitched at the devs and they cribbed my notes.
hard light
lol
pearl tangle
hah yeah i think a lot of the vr games at the moment are using purchased assets for the bulk of things because everybody is just trying to get something out while the market doesn't have much in it
pearl tangle
will be plenty of things which only get a few thousand sales or so. will be interesting once the touch stuff comes along and there are some high quality, funded stuff coming out for the platforms
wicked oak
pretty much all the static mesh assets on my new game are taken from marketplace, and most of them from infinity blade asset pack
the weapons are marketplace too
only thing not marketplace is the characters
but their animations are still marketplace or ue4 examples
except a few ones that i made myself
no other chance when there arent artist in the team
or enough budget to hire ones
pearl tangle
yeah they definitely come in handy for that
the infinity blade 1s are quite helpful for a lot of stuff
wicked oak
i posted a video of the game yesterday night, you can clearly see that the assets of the maps are taken from it
good thing, as they are lowpoly, they work fine for VR
until you place 3 thousands of them
wicked oak
see the cathedral thing at the end of the video
that thing has 6000 static mesh actors
of many types
and no, instancing doesnt help much
im trying to HLOD it
native cedar
6k meshes is a lot
wicked oak
its a fuckton of them
native cedar
how did you even get the video
my suggestion would be clustering the meshes
in our project we have a mesh for all the windows, a mesh for all the chimneys and so on
wicked oak
it runs at 90 fps
and it runs on psvr
im using HLOD on it
but its still not optimal
6k meshes for the whole map, but around 4k of them are on the big building at the side
native cedar
other than going heavy on lod, using instancings, or clustering I have no idea of what could be done
maybe you could have them all get culled as bigger, less detailed cluster meshes appear
wicked oak
thats exactly what HLOD does
native cedar
isn't hlod just a system to have lods and culling on instanced static meshes?
pearl tangle
yeah HLOD is the way to go
native cedar
the solution I suggest would be to have a whole different mesh appear, that would represent a group of instanced meshes
pearl tangle
yep thats the difference between LOD and HLOD
well yeah you can do the mesh combine which also helps
pearl tangle
but it doesn't simplify the mesh at all
pearl tangle
nah it doesn't merge them in the same way as the mesh merge does
wicked oak
so it first does groups of meshes, and then when you get far enough from a group, it merges them together
it does it in a more aggresive way
pearl tangle
HISM is what i mean not HLOD
pearl tangle
if you have hism on and instanced stereo off hows that go?
wicked oak
only one eye renders
i think normal instanced mehes also give problems with vr
i think it was HISM the buggy ones
but i think normal ism did bug too
thats why im doing HLODinstead of instances
native cedar
my idea would be using a whole different mesh to substitute the HLOD meshes when they are far
pearl tangle
oh yeah i remember seeing something about that. don't think instanced meshes had the issue actually
well thats what an LOD does
pearl tangle
you just use a billboard instead of combining them all into a mesh
wicked oak
you get far from them, and a combined mesh appears
native cedar
wow really
wicked oak
get even MORE far, and another combined mesh holding smaller combined meshes appear
its automated
but hella slow
native cedar
I thought HLOD was just having lods on static meshes
like when they are far they load a lower detail model
they don't combine
I feel so silly right meow
wicked oak
nono, thats just your usual LODs
pearl tangle
which unreal can now do automatically too
wicked oak
the problem is that get far, and you have a bunch of ~100 polygon meshes
but each of those is a drawcall
pearl tangle
kinda kills the instaLOD plugin that I had been using before
wicked oak
becouse ue4 doesnt batch
wicked oak
so then with hlod, instead of having 20 meshes at 100 polygons, you have one that its all of them
and THEN that one is also optimized to a lower LOD
and all textures combind
pearl tangle
that
wicked oak
already do that
pearl tangle
or just use HLOD :p
native cedar
I don't get it. You want to keep the building not culled, the meshes are being combined properly, so that view would be n meshes combined instead of 6k, but that is still not enough?
wicked oak
just merging it doesnt work
i need culling and LODs
merging it into one mesh would net me a 10 million drawcall
10 million triangles!!!!
clever sky
Still a goddamn mess, but at least I have 3 big roof top buildings a space ship and a cityscape in view
at kinda playable frame rates.
clever sky
Fair call!
As long as it works!
It doesn't matter what's going on behind the scenes
wicked oak
i still want to improve it
my other map, the reddish one
its at 6.5 ms rendering itme
on its worst corner
but yeah, FX can make it drop frames
the other map is near 9 ms time
with no enemies
wicked oak
yup
the red map is fine
but the other one is on the absolute edge
seems to run ok on ps4, i guess becouse im rendering at 60 fps instead of 90
and the overhead is on CPU drawcalls
wich the ps4 does in parallel i think
clever sky
Getting a weird spike in render time
happens when I rotate my camera past a certain point
Any idea how you'd go about diagnosing?
Jumping 12-15ms then falling back down...
pearl tangle
You tried combining the meshes, exporting over to 3ds and cutting out all the back side of them since you are only seeing it from 1 perspective?
pearl tangle
nah not yours. ambers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWfbiAdfyhQ this would be fun to fuck around in and make a "lawnmower man" game hah
been waiting for nvidia to release their Turf Works 1 for ages to do just that
wicked oak
so fuzzy
lapis glen
That looks so nice!
pearl tangle
yeah the grass itself is not amazing but hes done a good job with the fire propogation and cutting etc. not sure if his fire propogation goes across other actors though or if its just foliage
wintry escarp
anyone here tried TrinusVR ?
clever sky
Hmmm. Wonder how well it'll work with VR.
I want to run around in grassy fields and set fire to things.
pearl tangle
yeah hence why i want to build a lawnmower game for it. then you set fire to the lawn mower blades and spray fire everywhere haha
never heard of it. got a link @wintry escarp
wintry escarp
pearl tangle
oh right i remember somebody mentioning that before
never tried it out. interesting idea but can't imagine the performance is very good
pallid echo
Not sure how it is now but Trinus used to not be all that good.
Performance was horrible but it worked.
mighty carbon
Pretty cool move by MS and Oculus
Btw, happy Thanksgiving to US folks
We need VR app for that 😜
dusk vigil
Dude 'playing' the old sdk demo with gamepad + DK1 == WTF
Image doesnt seem to have anything to do with the article
and running 2d games in a headset... well, I sincerely hope they just wouldn't even talk about stuff like this and focus on the real deal
mighty carbon
Huh?
You can play PS4 non-VR games in PSVR on a large virtual screen
So, why is the same deal bad for XB1 and Oculus?
wicked oak
you need 2 devices
you CANT plug the rift into a xbox
you have to stream the game from the xbox to a pc, and then do that thing
and that, you can already do that
you can already stream xbox games to pc
just go and use steam VR
to do exactly that
pearl tangle
yeah i dont see any benefit to the xbox rift streaming thing at all
it was a cool gimmick to do the things like that before but you can already do it with steam vr anyways
i think what would actually be helpful is to be able to play xbox games on a pc instead of being able to stream xbox games running on an xbox to a pc
zenith charm
Whats the best way to go about different heights? have a int/float set and then set the Z height to that of the device if you teleport or anything around?
digital marlin
If you can plug the occulus into the Xbox that'd be big.
pearl tangle
different heights? shouldn't that just happen when a shorter person puts on the headset?
zenith charm
Ah probably, I'm adjusting the main vive template but its all the defaults in terms of teleporting and whatnot, it has the set origin to "floor" for the vive and when I teleport it puts the headset to the floor and not the height of me for example. if I add a Z value close to my height it looks right so thought that might be needed
unless something was broken on that and I wasn't aware
winged shale
The Xbox doesn't have enough USB ports, let alone 3.0
mighty carbon
Project Scorpio might have all of what Rift needs
deft badge
need one of these bad boys -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk-3kZ7ytZs
wintry escarp
I cant see them anywhere
mighty carbon
Why not?
wintry escarp
guaranteed someone who weighs 30stone would want a go and make a lot of noise about being to f. off
mighty carbon
Well, put weight limit labels
wintry escarp
you under estimate how dumb people are
"what do you mean I cant ride the roller coaster cos the safetly bar wont fit down, I want to see your boss"
arcades are dead here, just gambling machines in them now
zenith charm
Lots of arcade places have weight limits set and that's been fine. wouldn't think this would be any different than those
wintry escarp
I think last new machine I ever saw was dance dance revolution
zinc violet
@wintry escarp trinus kinda works but it's hit and miss
for example if you can stream it with nvidia gamestream, the lag isn't horrible
it's own compression is really bad
but if you use gamestream, you don't get lens correction
wintry escarp
5ghz wifi help?
zinc violet
so then you have to have the lens correction done on pc side separately
you'll need good wifi too
unless you want to run a cable from the phone
but that may or may not work for your phone
but the way you compress things makes the biggest difference for the lag
if it's a sw compressor on trinus, it'll not be great experience
well, it's a hacked together VR thing, it'll never be great
but you'll get some results still, and 3 DOF tracking with phones cheap sensors 😄
mighty carbon
If there was a resort with VR stations like in the video above, good food and amenities (outside of VR), I'd book a ticket :)
zenith charm
/vent Hate wasting whole days on the most simple of things/bugs I tell ya lol
If I set my vive on the floor then start my game it sets the floor correctly I guess and its ok, but thats not how the template VR project is and works fine if you have the headset on before you start it, really odd cause I didn't change anything there
clever sky
That exo thing looks kinda cool, but also kinda stupid.
Stupid mostly because of loss of 360.
Whatever other value it's adding, you're losing in kind by been stuck on the spot like that.
mighty carbon
Perhaps
Just saying that if there was a resort with VR that allows 360 and what that exo does, I'd be visiting that place :)
clever sky
With the right exo design it'd be cool.
But essentially, it'd have to allow for room scale unimpeded
for it to be only beneficial compared to current VR.
And I honestly don't know how that's physically possible.
You're always compromising on something.
Maybe some sort of steel wire to hoist you and the suit in the air
But I don't know how you turn in that case.
mighty carbon
I am sure someone will come up with something :)
clever sky
I think maybe the best theoretical exosuit setup would be something like the one described in Ready Player One.
Gyroscopic ring
But even then... how do they twist you around
without the support struts getting in the way of your hand.
mighty carbon
What I'd like to have is Rift/Vive FPS template with proper networking, motion controllers and Chaperone already set up, so I could focus on making my experience and not fight core setup.
mighty carbon
No plugins
clever sky
Well, you're going to have to wait on Epic then.
clever sky
Well, the chaperone stuff should be setup for Rift when the touch controllers come out
So that'll do too.
What's wrong with using plugins btw?
Because honestly, I think you'll be waiting a while on Epic
to get the standard FPS character functionality back into VR.
Even though it's all already been done with the VRExpansionPlugin.
spring pond
The chaperone is independent of Unreal
Guardian works fine with 4.13 / 4.14 on the release touch software
clever sky
@spring pond You want a chaperone you can control from within Unreal?
spring pond
what do you mean by control? all you can change about guardian is the color and get the dimensions
clever sky
Control, as in you can turn it on and off at will, change its colors, change occlusion, etc
spring pond
you can't turn the guardian off
clever sky
Oh ok. I thought 'The chaperone is independent of Unreal' was a complaint rather than a statement of fact 😛
spring pond
nah, it just works for what most peole want to do, unless you want to dynamically size elements of your game to match the playspace there isn't much you need to do
is the person that wrote that VRexpansion plugin here on discord? I've been looking at it for the last few days. Almost wanted to use it but decided to stick with our own architecture
clever sky
He's not. He's most contactable via the Unreal forums
also responds to reddit messages.
clever sky
Anyway. I made my own custom chaperone bounds
that I could control. Which is why I asked the question 😛
And it's surprisingly very useful
Not least of which is that you can occlude the bounds
spring pond
sure i didn't mean to come across dismissive, everyone has different requirements
clever sky
The real chaperone bounds are rendered independently on top, and they obscure depth information. Actually not that useful when trying to gauge if you're in or out the box.
mighty carbon
The reason I don't want to use plugins is that sometimes they are poorly written and break with new releases of UE4. Plus what happens if main programmer of the plug-in gets hit by a bus?!
clever sky
Not sure how it is for the guardian system, but I imagine it's similar.
spring pond
@mighty carbon The plugin is open source, so you can fix it / learn it yourself
clever sky
@mighty carbon Learn to code and replicate the functionality you need?
spring pond
that VR plugin is a couple thousand of lines at most. It's not hard to learn if you concentrate
mighty carbon
I am designer/artist, not so much C++ programmer
clever sky
Like... it's either use the plugin, make the functionality yourself, or don't do VR FPS, or make an extremely compromised VR FPS.
I'm a designer too.
Get your hands into it.
into the muck.
Best way to learn as a designer IMO.
mighty carbon
Jack of all trades .... no thank you
Life is short, better focus on what I do better than programming
clever sky
I mean, you can be a pri-madonna about it all, but if you're not in a team, or you can't afford a team
Then you're basically just complaining because you can't get someone else to do the work you need to do to make the stuff you want.
mighty carbon
I'll figure something out
clever sky
You'll use your mental energies to will Epic into doing it for you 😄
mighty carbon
I am just puzzled why there is no way to do setup with BP only
I did it for GearVR
(No motion controls of course)
clever sky
Mainly because moving the root motion capsule indpendently of the actor location requires rearchitecting low level components
and Epic are too busy/lazy for that
spring pond
yes
clever sky
The core of it for sure.
spring pond
I have been using a rift 95% of the time for the last few weeks to get ready for touch launch
clever sky
Well there you go. 😃
mighty carbon
Aye, I guess I have no choice but to try it :)
spring pond
the button binding in the example project is not what you want for the touch, but you can rebind easy enough
worst case you throw it out in a few days
and throwing out a few days work is something you need to be comfortable with doing 😉
clever sky
Do you need starter tips on getting plugins to work? 😛
Because I sure as hell did.
And you're probably going to hate it... but first thing you need to do is...
download visual studio
spring pond
ya, you need visual studio
clever sky
You need it to compile the plugin.
Once you've downloaded and installed visual studio; you download the repository file off the VRExpansionPlugin page on github
Unzip it. Place the contents into a directory called: /Plugins/VRExpansionPlugin
Then copy that directory over to your project.
mighty carbon
Oh
clever sky
Make a new C++ class (right click editor new C++ class actor).
Compile it.
Which will launch visual studio.
In the right, you should have a directory structure of your project.
Find the one that says (projectname).Build.cs
And then in the line
PublicDependencyModuleNames.AddRange(new string[] { "Core", "CoreUObject", "Engine", "InputCore", "VRExpansionPlugin"});
add that last bit
exactly like that.
Now you build the solution
Which is under build > Build Solution
Wait... and done. You have a working plugin!
Sounds like effort... but much easier then actually building all the features yourself in BP
drifting verge
how do you kill this message to never return .. ?
winged shale
seems a little dramatic
drifting verge
it pops up every 5 seconds on mine >.>
winged shale
yeah I don't really have that issue, but I keep my Vive on the floor of the vive space when not in use
drifting verge
I don't specifically want a message when I'm modeling in 3ds xD, problem is I'm developing at my desk.
winged shale
is your workflow pipeline loop that tight that quitting SteamVR is not the answer?
also does it pop up when it's minimized
drifting verge
yea, that's from the minimized one
workflow consists of model change -> programming -> vr
then blueprints in the desktop mode of the vive
when it's just small changes.
just becomes inconvineint quiting steamvr.
winged shale
yeah I understand
drifting verge
also do you know if you can scale the desktop window in steamvr ?
(only just got a vive today)
winged shale
have you tried settings->general->SteamVR windows always on top
and turning that off
what do you mean by scale the desktop window
like, the device mirror?
drifting verge
nah, you can control the desktop from inside the vive
winged shale
or the thing that shows when you run a UE4 instance in editor
ohhh
right
no
I don't think you can scale it
drifting verge
xD good enough
winged shale
I usually just walk up to it
drifting verge
I'll just keep it to one screen then
winged shale
back into a corner, then enable it, then walk to it 😛
winged shale
yeah.. I've switched to a 4k monitor instead of multi-monitor because of the performance hit. I can just pretend like it's a 2x2 1080p monitor setup
windows has those nice options for putting windows in the corners
drifting verge
yeah, I use that often with 1050p screens
winged shale
well, congrats on becoming one of the hopefully-not-so-few
drifting verge
of the vive ?
winged shale
yes
winged shale
cool. working on anything interesting?
winged shale
that's a good place to be. a lot of firms switching to showing clients drafts in VR are going to have the upper hand for a little while
looking good too, you can barely tell those are cardboard figures
drifting verge
they aren't 😉
winged shale
whoa, you made the shaders for those? or are those photogrammetric
drifting verge
wait, the trees you mean ?
winged shale
no the people
winged shale
yeah
clever sky
More to the point, they've baked the lighting information into the photo textures
drifting verge
yep
clever sky
So they won't be integrated properly into the scene D:
Also need those contact shadows!
Luckily we're getting a contact shadow patch soonish
drifting verge
got 'em
clever sky
Oh yeah
winged shale
I'm just learning to adapt to it
no dynamic shadows yet? That's fine I'm not releasing it soon anyway
I'll try to pre-bake in some stuff if I can on the interiors of ships
I'm having to spend this week working on art because I'm traveling, and my wife won't let me uproot the Vive 😦
drifting verge
once the travel vive comes out 😉
clever sky
Yeah, get a good looking tool in there. Will help motivate you with the rest of the work 😛
The current banana slug ain't cutting it!
drifting verge
need to design a case for a mate to cut for this thing.. this vive's going to multiple court cases..
winged shale
hehe. Hopefully I'll get something going for the kickstarter in spring, so I can buy a fancy pascal notebook and a wireless kit
drifting verge
actually, the original box is nice enough, just a bit on the 'I'm a waste of space' side of things.
clever sky
@drifting verge Is that the original original box, or the original second revision box?
Because the second version is much smaller than the original
drifting verge
uhh
clever sky
Which was nuts
drifting verge
clever sky
I think that's the second one
It's definetly the second one.
Oh wait
No, that's the second one.
clever sky
Yeah
drifting verge
cbf opening it again
clever sky
You can see it's substantially smaller
drifting verge
there is so much space under the foam though
clever sky
That's where you pot and snacks go.
drifting verge
that's just ..empty
clever sky
For best demonstration.... use this... and this, then these after.