#virtual-reality | Unreal Source | Page 46

empty sundial Nov 13, 2016, 2:01 AM

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Hips thing is annoying.

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Maybe I'll just do over the back. Easier that way

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 2:37 AM

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Figure out the forward vector of the HMD in a robust manner. Then use it to drive shoulder then hip movement.

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let the HMD move independently within a range

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but then have the shoulders follow along after

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Repeat for hips. If the player moves forward significantly (30cm+)

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match shoulders hips to HMD forward.

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Or maybe you can use physics constraints

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 3:33 AM

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yeah. My code for doing this is super annoying

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but it works for all orientations with histeresis

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you just have to feel it out

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also whooooaaaaa

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I just extended my Vive cables by 50 feet

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works like a charm, active HDMI cable and USB-over-Cat6 bypass

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 4:26 AM

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Both nice and dayum that's a lot of cable to reel up

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Unless your play area and workstation are in very different areas

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 4:27 AM

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workstation is in the office, and the play area is in another room

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office is too small to fit a vive setup, and my wife likes to work there too

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 4:28 AM

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Fair enough. So basically you increased your Vive play area a lot!

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 4:28 AM

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ohhhh yeah

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so previously I had it so that my computer was next to the vive

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 4:28 AM

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What size space?

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 4:28 AM

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and I just piped out through HDMI and active USB into the office

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so I could have a terminal there

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 4:28 AM

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Ah yeah

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 4:29 AM

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that didn't fly when I got a 4k monitor, because displayport won't come longer than 1.5m and HDMI won't do the trick over that distance

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 4:29 AM

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Yeah... the short cable lengths of displayport are quite bothersome.

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 4:29 AM

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so now I pipe in the terminal into the vive room, and rearranged stuff around there to get approximately 2.5x3m

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 4:30 AM

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Had a hell of a time getting a cable to extend my DP range. In the end, I only ended going from 1.5m to 2m

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Enough so I could awkwardly route the cabling from monitor to floor PC

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 4:30 AM

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now you're thinking with portals

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 4:30 AM

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That's a pretty good sized play space.

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I've got 2x3 (or actually a slightly more ego bruising 1.9 x 2.9m)

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 4:31 AM

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ehehe

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it used to be 2.5x2.6

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squeezed the desk into the corner, and ignored the chair for the desk

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so I've got to remember to put the chair next to the desk before I play

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 4:32 AM

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Friend of mine has a 4 x 4.5 setup and complains when he's here 😛

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 4:32 AM

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hahaha

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wow what a wank

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 4:33 AM

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haha 😛

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 4:33 AM

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at the lab we have a crazy 4x4 space, it's a little isolating

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feels so empty when I play there

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 4:35 AM

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It's great if you're playing a room scale only game

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But I've found that the benefit goes down when you've got a good locomotion setup

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 4:36 AM

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mhm

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 4:36 AM

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Then instead of been the space in which you can move, it's just an 'envelope of active play space'

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 4:36 AM

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yeah, just some more void to get confused in and trip yourself

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 5:45 AM

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After all this time....

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I still think the controllers I designed for VR (visual concept, not mechanical engineering) would still be great

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http://i.imgur.com/cZpUwLC.jpg

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http://i.imgur.com/caSjf4I.png

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I mean, look at that sum-bitch. Way ahead of its time. It's fully compatible with Vive, Touch and Gamepads!

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You could even map Elite Dangerous to it well

dry fjord Nov 13, 2016, 6:13 AM

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that looks neat. is it a virtual iron?

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for lady VR games?

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 6:21 AM

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... That's actually not the first time I've heard that joke

pallid echo Nov 13, 2016, 6:22 AM

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It does look like an iron though. lol

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 6:22 AM

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Doesn't matter what it looks like on the outside!

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It should feel a bit like a skinny gun handle with the HMD over your head! 😛

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Or a joystick

dry fjord Nov 13, 2016, 7:08 AM

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I think the vives being smooth helps a lot

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plus the obvious reason for the redesign from the pre is that you could hit yourself in the teeth with it

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not so much anymore

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 7:19 AM

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Hit yourself in the teeth with the pre??

dry fjord Nov 13, 2016, 8:10 AM

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yeah it has an edge on the back that angles up

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http://i1.wp.com/www.roadtovr.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/steamvr-htc-vive-developer-edition-unboxing-8.jpg

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sorry that's not the pre

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it's the old dev kit

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I guess the pre has the new shaped controllers and camera but is still slightly older than the current version

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we had the ones in the picture at work for ages

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if you put like an apple in the player's hand and it was set forward enough those games that make you push shit towards your face to eat it would cause you to lose a tooth

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good times

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bbl shopping

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 9:35 AM

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Hehehe.

lapis glen Nov 13, 2016, 11:30 AM

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@dry fjord That is what I am doing, but I want it to look as if it was played on a normal 1080p screen.

neon egret Nov 13, 2016, 11:37 AM

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Isn't it wonderful how SteamVR starts when you start a VR Project?

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Only to still not enable VR play, cause SteamVR started probably after UE4 checks if SteamVR is on

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Such a useful feature

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Imma cry as much a want!

sullen stirrup Nov 13, 2016, 11:39 AM

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😄

lapis glen Nov 13, 2016, 11:46 AM

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@neon egret I feel ya, man. Lets cry together like grown men.

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 12:01 PM

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@neon egret /waaa (crying with you)

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 5:59 PM

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@neon egret you can turn off auto-launch in the SteamVR settings in the beta

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📎 unknown.png

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 6:12 PM

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Auto-launch isn't the problem.

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It's that it launches and Unreal still doesn't pick it up.

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 6:13 PM

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ohhhh right

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yeah I just don't auto-launch, because it doesn't work

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 6:13 PM

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Like it's a tease. Ok, that was convenient.

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doh.

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 6:13 PM

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I think they're fixing it in 14

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 6:13 PM

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closes off everything and starts up steamVR first.

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Oh that'll be good.

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Do you know when 4.14 is dropping?

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 6:14 PM

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technical director mentioned in a recent stream that he was lagging on implementing it, he's sorry, but it will be out soon. Probably 1-2 weeks

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 6:14 PM

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Couple weeks eh...

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Hmmm, will probably be able to integrate it before I drop my own thing.

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Hopefully it doesn't break too much stuff.

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And hopefully forward rendering works well for me.

real needle Nov 13, 2016, 6:15 PM

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why not test it beforehand on the preview?

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 6:16 PM

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I'm using a plugin that...

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last I looked hadn't been updated to 4.14

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The plugin is fundamental to my stuff. Can't not use it 😛

real needle Nov 13, 2016, 6:17 PM

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which plugin?

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 6:17 PM

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VRExpansionPlugin

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Oh ok. Looks like it's updated.

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Maybe I'll give it a shot 😄

real needle Nov 13, 2016, 6:20 PM

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haha thats awesome!

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definately worth it, msaa + fwd looks so much better

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 6:21 PM

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Some people seem to think it doesn't look great.

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Mainly @dry fjord

real needle Nov 13, 2016, 6:22 PM

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well its not 'great' but it is way better than TAA's blurry mess imo

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 6:23 PM

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I've been using screen res 150 and FXAA.

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Substantially better on text

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Than TXAA

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Haven't compared to MSAA yet

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 6:24 PM

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yeah, I just am not going to use text as much as I can, and switch to forward when it's all ironed out

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I'm really impressed at the gains of fwd though

real needle Nov 13, 2016, 6:24 PM

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i'm not @winged shale

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still pretty bad on lighting performance

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 6:24 PM

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lol

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I agree, I just like that it compartmentalizes all of the features that I don't need

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but honestly deferred is better and is going to be for a while

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if I wanted my game to look like that I'd just use Unity

clever sky Nov 13, 2016, 6:26 PM

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I hope they release Robo Recall as a learning template

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Then I can stick my own stuff in there and run around! muhaha 😛

wicked oak Nov 13, 2016, 7:31 PM

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TAA works best on extra screen percentage

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put 150+TAA and it looks real good

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but remember, TAA is a post fx, so it scales with the resolution quite a bit

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and its already expensive

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so if you budget for 1 ms TAA time, then go ahead

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 7:34 PM

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it also doesn't look too nice when you shake your head, because of the 'temporal' part

wicked oak Nov 13, 2016, 7:34 PM

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but fxaa isnt enough really

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MSAA is really good

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 7:34 PM

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indeed

wicked oak Nov 13, 2016, 7:34 PM

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TAA best for deferred

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but its expensive

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the cool thing is that it works well on sparkly things

limber rose Nov 13, 2016, 8:40 PM

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hey guys, anyone had any luck creating VR trailers on the Vive? haven't found a good workflow for generating 1920x1080 HMD footage :/

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 8:40 PM

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Shadowplay is quick and easy, so is OBS

limber rose Nov 13, 2016, 8:40 PM

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well, I mean generating the mirror

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without cropping

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 8:40 PM

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ah

limber rose Nov 13, 2016, 8:40 PM

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or distortion

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and yeah, Shadowplay is awesome, had made life easy for sure

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 8:41 PM

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you need to alter in the render parts of the steamVR plugin

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change U and V for the render rect to something else within

limber rose Nov 13, 2016, 8:41 PM

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I attempted that but wasn't sure it was working for the Vive?

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could you confirm that isn't Oculus only for some reason?

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 8:42 PM

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otherwise there is no good and easy way to make arbitrary cameras for this kind of thing

limber rose Nov 13, 2016, 8:42 PM

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thanks for helping BTW

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 8:42 PM

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I can confirm people have gotten it working for 16:9 output to render window

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for Vive

limber rose Nov 13, 2016, 8:42 PM

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cool

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I did swap out the code for the HMD Mirror

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 8:43 PM

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it's not good, it's a crap resolution but it'll output properly

limber rose Nov 13, 2016, 8:43 PM

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still wasn't working though, I don't normally build the engine from source

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I wonder if I actually rebuilt now 😛

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 8:43 PM

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hehe

limber rose Nov 13, 2016, 8:44 PM

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how can I be sure my changes are running in engine? pardon the noobish question ❤

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 8:44 PM

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once you've compiled the engine for the first time, and you recompile, if it mentions the files you've touched in the compilation output from Build you're good

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other option is to record gameplay in a replicated sort of way, then replay and edit together in matinee or whatever they're calling it these days

limber rose Nov 13, 2016, 8:45 PM

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ah, yes, so it had not mentioned the SteamVRRenderer file

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right, I thought of that but really don't like that workflow idea, sounds hellish hehe

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 8:45 PM

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yes

limber rose Nov 13, 2016, 8:45 PM

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will go back and make sure it is compiling now

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 8:45 PM

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I am not certain you must recompile the entire engine, I believe the plugins should be hermetic

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unless the part is in the engine, then...

limber rose Nov 13, 2016, 8:46 PM

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yeah, I when I compile other plugins they are discrete

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pretty sure you're right

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I did try recompiling the whole engine too though out of confusion

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 8:47 PM

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I haven't done this so I'm not experienced, but I think I get the idea of the plugins

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because they'll each live in their own DLL

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easy to swap in and out

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pain in the ass for debugging because you'll have to generate symbols for them blah blah

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good luck

limber rose Nov 13, 2016, 8:49 PM

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taking another stab now, thanks 👌

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 8:50 PM

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I'm not yet in the trailer phase, just in the vlogging scene now, so I'm glad for any work done to further these types of things. Hopefully Epic will patch this up soon before I do anything formal. So thanks to you for experimenting

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keep your commits tight just in case you figure something great out, we can piece together a pull request

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in other news, Hans Zimmer's Interstellar soundtrack still gives me chills, keeps me going 😃

limber rose Nov 13, 2016, 8:54 PM

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yes, the commits are aplenty 😃 hehe, and huge Hans Zimmer fan over here

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he always does a fantastic job

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 8:55 PM

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👍

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what are you working on, if you don't mind my asking?

limber rose Nov 13, 2016, 8:55 PM

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sure,

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Water Planet

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http://waterplanet.tv

VIRGO - Water Planet EP and Game

Aboard a space ship launching into hyperspace, on a trip to Water Planet.

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lol, did not intend to take over the channel with an image

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that is the music release cover

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it also has the game counterpart

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https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=708248933

Steam Workshop: Greenlight. Water Planet is an audio/visual game that involves immersive first person exploration on land, underwater, and guided flying in an orb transport while listening to the music from Water Planet EP by VI

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there is the Steam Greenlight link

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 8:57 PM

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0:57 in your video 👍 ace use of phsyically based shading

limber rose Nov 13, 2016, 8:58 PM

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thank you 🙏

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we're really happy with that level and how it looks 😄

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the others have come a long way too

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that whole video has no additional post processing outside of UE, we've made some things look better since then too

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 9:00 PM

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cool. I'm assuming you added some type of wash around where the geometry meets the water?

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because that would be my one and only critique

limber rose Nov 13, 2016, 9:00 PM

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yeah, we experimented with a few things actually

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but a lot of them were not VR friendly 😦

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 9:01 PM

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d'oh

limber rose Nov 13, 2016, 9:01 PM

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kind of just "smoothed" things over there with fog 😄

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 9:01 PM

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yeah the fog looks great, definitely alleviates the transition

limber rose Nov 13, 2016, 9:01 PM

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but yeah, it has been interested seeing what we can squeeze out while still trying to keep VR rendering a reality 😛

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interesting*

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we only have a 960 and a 1080 here, runs perfect on the 1080, and a little choppy on the 960, still have some optimizing to do

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but cool, I hope you like the world and concept, I feel like if you like Interstellar, Hans Zimmer, scifi, etc, you will hopefully enjoy the game 😃 I will try and remember to ping you when it is ready 🌝

winged shale Nov 13, 2016, 9:05 PM

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great, let me know!

pallid echo Nov 13, 2016, 10:45 PM

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Weirdest crap ever right here.

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The behavior tree I made for an enemy character works fine in VR mode when the headset is off my face and put on the ground. Everything works meaning the enemy NPC moves around properly, performs the required tasks with no issues, etc. As soon as I pick the headset off the the ground and stand up with it the behavior tree goes nuts. Starts looping tasks when they are only supposed to be used once and movement ends up being random rather than being scripted (just walks where ever)

FIXED: Usually according to UE4 logic the player is technically in the center of the play area which is always a pain for developers. AI Perception does not follow this logic and will keep updating based on the location of the player anywhere in the play area.

empty sundial Nov 13, 2016, 10:51 PM

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If anyone would like to try out my jam Vive game, here's a link: https://crackpotgumption.itch.io/flowstar

itch.io

Flowstar by crackpotgumption

Audio visualization meets fast paced gameplay.

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big thanks to @neon egret for his plugin, which enabled the game. 😃

limber rose Nov 13, 2016, 10:59 PM

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cool! will check it out

pallid echo Nov 13, 2016, 11:08 PM

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@empty sundial I can't get any song to play?

empty sundial Nov 13, 2016, 11:14 PM

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No?

pallid echo Nov 13, 2016, 11:14 PM

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Nope

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So the touchpad thing isn't working

empty sundial Nov 13, 2016, 11:14 PM

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Hm

pallid echo Nov 13, 2016, 11:15 PM

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I grabbed both guns as well but dropping them made them fall through the floor. After dropping them I could grab a gun from my left side but not my right which kind of ruined it from there.

empty sundial Nov 13, 2016, 11:16 PM

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The song list is populating, correct?

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(Should be three titles there)

pallid echo Nov 13, 2016, 11:16 PM

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Nope, no songs populating.

empty sundial Nov 13, 2016, 11:18 PM

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That would be the reason. Hm. I'll see if I can recreate. Can you send me the path that the game is located in?

pallid echo Nov 13, 2016, 11:19 PM

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C:\Users\Chris\Desktop\CrackpotGumption_Flowstar

empty sundial Nov 13, 2016, 11:20 PM

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K, thank you. That's not it, then 😃

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Thanks for letting me know

pallid echo Nov 13, 2016, 11:20 PM

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No Problem 😄

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@empty sundial It just started working out of no where.

empty sundial Nov 13, 2016, 11:24 PM

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yay!

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lol

pallid echo Nov 13, 2016, 11:24 PM

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Though the touch controls are weird

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Do the orbs speed up at all?

empty sundial Nov 13, 2016, 11:24 PM

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the orbs?

pallid echo Nov 13, 2016, 11:24 PM

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The things you shoot

empty sundial Nov 13, 2016, 11:25 PM

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They accelerate, but have a max speed

pallid echo Nov 13, 2016, 11:26 PM

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I only played one song (some Funk sounding one) but they didn't speed up at all, that's why I was wondering.

empty sundial Nov 13, 2016, 11:26 PM

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The funk one is pretty laid back

pallid echo Nov 13, 2016, 11:26 PM

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Ah

empty sundial Nov 13, 2016, 11:38 PM

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although speeding them up isn't a bad idea

pallid echo Nov 13, 2016, 11:47 PM

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Also, you need a quit button

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lol

empty sundial Nov 13, 2016, 11:48 PM

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Noted.

real needle Nov 13, 2016, 11:56 PM

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honestly 150% sp + TAA costs about the same on my scene as 100sp + MSAA with the new renderer

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and the first option looks way better

dry fjord Nov 14, 2016, 12:05 AM

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I haven't looked at the latest preview but MSAA has a way to go

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I think you may have to disable a lot of engine lighting features for it to look good

real needle Nov 14, 2016, 12:08 AM

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yeah and my scene is reliant on heavy lighting and shadowing

empty sundial Nov 14, 2016, 12:47 AM

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I was having issues with SP

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breaking my vive display

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Not sure why

real needle Nov 14, 2016, 12:48 AM

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you're using r.screepercentage right?

raven halo Nov 14, 2016, 12:49 AM

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hold on, is 100sp + MSAA supposed to be as expensive as 150sp +TAA?

real needle Nov 14, 2016, 12:50 AM

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it is in my scene

raven halo Nov 14, 2016, 12:50 AM

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I'm currently at 130 + TAA... and I was expecting to get a performance boost with MSAA, should I adjust my expectations? :S

real needle Nov 14, 2016, 12:50 AM

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no

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you will get a perf boost from forward rendering

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but msaa is really costly

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use TAA + Fwd

raven halo Nov 14, 2016, 12:50 AM

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I'm currently using forward already in 4.13, but I'm using TAA

real needle Nov 14, 2016, 12:50 AM

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oh

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yeah no msaa is more intensive than taa

raven halo Nov 14, 2016, 12:51 AM

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already noticed a performance boost of course

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I guess I'll try 100sp with MSAA and see how that holds up against 130sp TAA

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in terms of performance and quality

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how does lighting affect MSAA performance, though?

real needle Nov 14, 2016, 12:52 AM

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havent done tons of testing but my scene is heavily dependent on stationary lights w/ dynamic shadows

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whole scene probably has 70-100

raven halo Nov 14, 2016, 12:52 AM

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holy crap

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how have you been able to get proper performance with stationary lights w/ dynamic lights?

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the only dynamic lights I've been able to use are cascade shadow maps

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but as soon as I turn on dynamic lights on a small point light... performance dies on me

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even though I'm maybe only casting 10 shadows

real needle Nov 14, 2016, 12:53 AM

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tons of small tweaks and optimizations

raven halo Nov 14, 2016, 12:53 AM

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tell me your secrets 😛

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I've had a hard time, and I've also been unsuccessful in finding any information

real needle Nov 14, 2016, 12:54 AM

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i dont even know them off the top of my head but one really important thing is to set that max draw distance in lights

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i have mine at 3000

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but my environment is very dungeon-ey

raven halo Nov 14, 2016, 12:55 AM

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ahh I see

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I'll play around some more

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I've had surprisingly good performance with capsule shadows

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I'm waiting for this:

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https://forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?121542-Distance-Field-Indirect-Shadows-prototype&p=620120#post620120

Hi, I'm Luoshuang. Just now I have finished DFIS for UE4. This idea is derived from Capsule Shadows directly, it extracts light direction information from indirect lighting cache, and generate indirect shadows by cone-tracing against distance fields.

GitHub: https://github.com/AlanIWBFT/UnrealEngine/tree/DFIS-4.14

Note:

Currently tiled-culling is not implemented, so performance may be an issue.
This technique shares the same drawback with RTDF: the umbra will always larger than

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it's coming in 4.15 apparently

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should be as cheap as capsule shadows

real needle Nov 14, 2016, 12:58 AM

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huh i'll keep an eye out

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seems interesting

jagged vale Nov 14, 2016, 1:54 AM

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http://www.gameplanet.co.nz/news/g5828db5d55389/Vive-gets-wireless-more-expensive-with-new-add-on/

@dry fjord

Gameplanet

Vive gets wireless, more expensive with new add-on

The price of progress.

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imagine you've seen this but in case others haven't

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but damn that's a hefty cost just for no cables, might be worth it still

empty sundial Nov 14, 2016, 1:55 AM

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Would be 100% worth, but I don't think it's legit

jagged vale Nov 14, 2016, 1:55 AM

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i know gp is legit, i imagine they investigate their sources

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unless you're implying it will be frought with issues, in which case - probably!

empty sundial Nov 14, 2016, 1:55 AM

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I'm sure it works, but I'm also pretty sure it'd add 20ms+ of latency

jagged vale Nov 14, 2016, 1:56 AM

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yeah, no "noticeable" latency - for who, casual gamers?

empty sundial Nov 14, 2016, 1:56 AM

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Unless they did something revolutionary

jagged vale Nov 14, 2016, 1:56 AM

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well lets think about it

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how much data is being sent vs how much can be sent

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in other words, bandwidth

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i imagine that would be the deciding factor, and without doing any research whatsoever, there is probably too much data being sent to that wireless attachment than you can send at a low rate

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"HTC has quoted the Vive needs at least 15Gbps bandwidth"

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"the company will sell a bigger battery for the add-on in the future. At the moment, it will only come with a standard battery that lasts for an hour-and-a-half. The bigger power source will last longer, but you'll have to carry it around in your pocket or in a bag."

tldr the battery lasts 1.5 hrs

wintry escarp Nov 14, 2016, 2:14 AM

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if they have any sense vive2 will have that as standard

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with the new bits on your belt of course, not on your head

empty sundial Nov 14, 2016, 2:24 AM

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Ehhhh, maybe

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The problem is to solve a lot of the current gen issues, you need more data (better screens, better resolution per eye, still pushing 90FPS)

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And there is nothing in wireless tech that can meet current demand for throughput and latency

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Let alone even more data being pushed

real needle Nov 14, 2016, 2:53 AM

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I guess we will se

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e

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I'm hopeful for this wireless device

zinc violet Nov 14, 2016, 3:59 AM

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@jagged vale yeah, I linked that here few days ago 😃

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heh, so did HeadClot

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also it looks like a real deal, HTC is handling the sales at the moment it appears?

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but yeah, VR needs to go wireless, badly

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wires are ok on seated experience

jagged vale Nov 14, 2016, 4:04 AM

#

i look forward to it if it works 100% and when they have a better battery

zinc violet Nov 14, 2016, 4:04 AM

#

but since room scale is what people are now focusing on, wireless has to happen

#

even if it comes at expense of other features

granite jacinth Nov 14, 2016, 4:27 AM

#

Don't miss out on @empty sundial VR game playthrough, maybe you'll learn something?! https://www.twitch.tv/victorburgos_

Twitch

VictorBurgos_ - Twitch

#letsplay #ue4jam #indiegame ! #UE4 #indie #gaming

winged shale Nov 14, 2016, 6:10 AM

#

Anyone implemented in UE4 some kind of dynamically scaled render settings like that Steam Dev Days talk about perf in VR mentioned?

#

I would like to do this, but I need to know how fast I can change the settings, and if there's lag involved as well

clever sky Nov 14, 2016, 7:02 AM

#

Well you certainly can't use setresolution per tick

#

I've tried that. Doesn't work well 😄

real needle Nov 14, 2016, 7:07 AM

#

yeah I did

#

@winged shale

#

I didnt go the normal route of putting a delay in or anything

#

I found what worked best was to keep a variable at 0 and every missed frame --, and every 5-10(whatever works best for your scene) frames over 85fps ++ the int. and do a check if its <-45 lower settings, if its >45 raise settings

clever sky Nov 14, 2016, 7:11 AM

#

@real needle Nice work. I like that!

real needle Nov 14, 2016, 7:50 AM

#

thanks @clever sky

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 9:06 AM

#

the oculus branch of the engine has a command for that

neon egret Nov 14, 2016, 10:28 AM

#

@empty sundial (: Will try it out later!

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 12:02 PM

#

Does anyone know if there is a simple way to get replication to work on pawns and it's components? (hands and Head) because the way im doing now is really laggy :/
https://gyazo.com/e7a418d44185c4e257288964b064dcc3

Gyazo

hard light Nov 14, 2016, 12:07 PM

#

for starters, don't replicate transforms, it's unecessary

#

I'd imagine their scale isn't going to change, and the network code has optimisation for replicating vectors / rotators

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:07 PM

#

he is doing VR

#

transforms is the fast way

#

im doing it that way for now

#

but the better way its to do it location+rotation

#

also becouse rotators can be done in less precision

hard light Nov 14, 2016, 12:08 PM

#

vectors are also done with less precision when networked

#

(being in VR is irrelevant)

#

I might also not use reliable server functions to do it, and just use repnotify

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:09 PM

#

also important to replicate the "local" position and rotation

hard light Nov 14, 2016, 12:09 PM

#

I don't think you want things on tick to be reliable

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:09 PM

#

he needs to send stuff from client to server

#

gotta have to use RPC for that

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 12:09 PM

#

no reliable doens't work at all

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:09 PM

#

you can put it at 10 per second

#

and interpolate

#

but that is very easy to fix

#

just do it later if you need it

hard light Nov 14, 2016, 12:10 PM

#

no, reliable is not what he wants

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:10 PM

#

what im doing right now myself, is to replicate 3 transforms with a RPC, then on Tick of everyone, i interpolate them

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 12:10 PM

#

whats RPC short for?

hard light Nov 14, 2016, 12:10 PM

#

reliable RPCs can cause considerable latency, because they have to arrive in the correct order

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:10 PM

#

to set the final transform of the components

hard light Nov 14, 2016, 12:10 PM

#

but here you do not care if they do or not

#

since only the latest transform is relevant

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:11 PM

#

yeah, but then you have to allways get the latest

#

a simple way its to send a unique number with the rpc call

hard light Nov 14, 2016, 12:11 PM

#

no

#

seriously

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:11 PM

#

they can arrive out of order, thatz why i tell that

hard light Nov 14, 2016, 12:11 PM

#

@frosty robin - RPC = Remote Procedure Call

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 12:11 PM

#

Okey, so the way im doing now is completly wrong?

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:12 PM

#

its fine for a prototype phase

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 12:12 PM

#

yeah, but im getting only 10 updates a second.

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:12 PM

#

its easy to do interpolation, you can just use a lerp and you are done

#

works fine enough for prototype purposes

hard light Nov 14, 2016, 12:12 PM

#

@frosty robin - I would look at using just local translation / rotation and handling it on repnotify

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 12:13 PM

#

okey.. this is my first networking project though.. so im kinda off xD

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:13 PM

#

not sure repnotify is good for something like this, that is sent on tick or nearly tick

#

im interpolating to the current replicated transform on tick

hard light Nov 14, 2016, 12:13 PM

#

you can do it initially with just setting the loc / rot, then later you can optimised by having a desired loc / rot, sending it at whatever interval, and lerping as necessary

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 12:14 PM

#

Okey, so i can't send the raw data at let's say 64 tick?

#

and skip interpolation

hard light Nov 14, 2016, 12:14 PM

#

interpolation is going to be the best way to reduce network traffic overheads

#

but you may find you don't need to do it

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:15 PM

#

vr its at more than 64 fps

#

you gonna need interpolation anyway

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 12:15 PM

#

I tried increasing the event tick to 64t/s but im still lagging alot.

hard light Nov 14, 2016, 12:15 PM

#

rendering framerate != gameplay tick rate

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:16 PM

#

well, in the same pc pretty much is

#

server tick rate is not client framerate

#

unless you are in ArmA XD

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 12:16 PM

#

But how do i change the server tick rate then? because im using listen servers now.

#

I guessed that an increased event tick would lead to a faster update aswell

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:17 PM

#

listen servers use game framerate as tick rate i think

hard light Nov 14, 2016, 12:17 PM

#

@frosty robin - read through this if you haven't already:
http://cedric.bnslv.de/unreal-engine-4-network-compendium-released/

Cedric 'eXi' Neukirchen

Cedric Neukirchen

Unreal Engine 4 Network Compendium Released

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 12:17 PM

#

yeah.. im not getting that update.

#

im getting about 10 updates a second.

#

or maybe less.

hard light Nov 14, 2016, 12:17 PM

#

listen servers will use game tick, yeah

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:17 PM

#

at least i can see a massive slowdown in networking if the listen server doesnt have the headset on

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 12:17 PM

#

thanks amber, ill read it.

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:17 PM

#

its a real good boook

#

@neon egret wrote it

#

you can ask him

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 12:18 PM

#

Both client and server is using VR

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:18 PM

#

make sure you have the second headset "on"

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 12:18 PM

#

yeah both are on.

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:18 PM

#

the headsets have a proximity detector and go into deactivated mode

#

if that proximity detector is off

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 12:18 PM

#

yeah but we tried with both on.

#

like physically on our heads 😉

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:19 PM

#

alright

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 12:19 PM

#

but the way i've setup the blueprints now.. it "should" give me a higher updaterate then 10/s

#

?

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:19 PM

#

dont use repnotifty to do this stuff btw

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 12:19 PM

#

im not

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:19 PM

#

not sure, but repnotify its been buggy quite alot for me

#

and i mean REALLY buggy

#

to the point half of the stuff isnt called

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 12:21 PM

#

it's strange though.. because if i use the 3rd person template as a third client + 2 VR.. nothing is lagging for that client... so the replication seems to be smooth to server

#

but if a VR pawn looks at another VR pawn, the client will see everything lagging

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:21 PM

#

what ive done myself is not too different that what you have, and it runs fine

#

over real network

#

with a tester on the other side of europe and an american one too

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 12:22 PM

#

Hmm okey

#

and you're using interpolation ?

#

or not?

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:23 PM

#

yes

#

just a lerp

#

nothing strange

#

lerp locked at 0.7

#

i know its not optimal at all, but for now it does its job

#

allways find the easiest way to get it working

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 12:24 PM

#

hmm you're just using the old value and lerping to the new? you're not driving the lerp alpha with anything?

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:24 PM

#

yup

#

just that

#

i repeat that is not optimal at all, but it smooths it

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 12:25 PM

#

hmm okey so i should set that when im setting the new values.. or when im changing the world transform?

#

and i should change to local transform instead?

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:25 PM

#

when you change the transform

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 12:25 PM

#

Okay

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:25 PM

#

use the RPC to replicate the new transforms to the server

#

that function sets the Replicated transforms in the server

#

some time later those replicated transforms return to client

#

so then you interpolate the current transform of your components to that replicated variable

#

in fact, you interpolate the transforms of your components to the replicated variables on tick, allways

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 12:26 PM

#

Hmm i can't seem to find any function called "RPC" or is it just a part of custom events?

#

It feels like i should read that book haha

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:27 PM

#

the rpc is just replicated functions

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 12:28 PM

#

okay, so basicly i should make my setting variables into a function instead.

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 12:28 PM

#

also read the book

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 12:29 PM

#

yeah im reading now 😉 thanks for the help

mighty carbon Nov 14, 2016, 4:41 PM

#

http://uploadvr.com/superdata-headset-sales-analysis/

UploadVR

VR Sales Analysis: Rift and Vive to Sell Under 500,000 in 2016, ...

A new industry report from SuperData Research is now shining some light on the mysterious state of the increasingly competitive VR industry.

neon egret Nov 14, 2016, 4:46 PM

#

Hm

#

Tested PSVR.
You feel the lower price. Even if sold more (due to obvious reasons) it's (for me!) the one that gives the worst result

#

Rift and Vive are kinda equal. So idk. Let's see what the next year brings us.
Vive gets the 220$ wireless addon, which is a huge deal

hard light Nov 14, 2016, 4:47 PM

#

IMHO, I prefer the Vive's roomscale features and the motion controllers just feel a bit better as they aren't so peculiarly lightweight

mighty carbon Nov 14, 2016, 5:00 PM

#

I don't have room for room scale experiences

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 5:10 PM

#

i have all 3 side by side

spring pond Nov 14, 2016, 5:10 PM

#

Anyone have trouble with the touchcap events on the Left touch controller?

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 5:10 PM

#

i think oculus is better, due to Touch and software such as ASW

#

tracking on both oculus and vive is similar

#

i run both on the exact same space just fine

spring pond Nov 14, 2016, 5:10 PM

#

Everything works fine on my right controller, but my left ones don't seem to have values != 0

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 5:10 PM

#

what touch version?

#

try the demo

hard light Nov 14, 2016, 5:11 PM

#

Vive will have ASW soon enough

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 5:11 PM

#

the one with the little robot and stuff

spring pond Nov 14, 2016, 5:11 PM

#

good point

#

yah i saw that in my library, haven't tried it yet

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 5:11 PM

#

that one has fully implemented capacitative

#

so you can compare it and see if it works

#

turns out there are 3 capacitative

spring pond Nov 14, 2016, 5:11 PM

#

good call, brb

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 5:11 PM

#

sorry, 4

#

joystick, buton a, button b, and "rest place"

spring pond Nov 14, 2016, 5:11 PM

#

and the trigger

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 5:11 PM

#

true

#

and the grab button

spring pond Nov 14, 2016, 5:11 PM

#

its pretty rad actually, i like it

#

you can do neat hand animations with it all

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 5:12 PM

#

yeah

#

i actually do them

spring pond Nov 14, 2016, 5:12 PM

#

we do some right now

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 5:12 PM

#

made my own animation blueprint

spring pond Nov 14, 2016, 5:12 PM

#

but for future stuff will be more robust

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 5:12 PM

#

did you receive some newer Touch assets?

#

mine was the one a while ago

spring pond Nov 14, 2016, 5:12 PM

#

I pulled some last weekish, so maybe those were it?

#

i saw it had a demo level and stuff now

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 5:12 PM

#

what do your 3d touch assets have?

#

mine were just fbx

#

and were off-center

spring pond Nov 14, 2016, 5:12 PM

#

I don't know, the artists took care of that 😉

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 5:12 PM

#

i had to align them with the motion controller

spring pond Nov 14, 2016, 5:13 PM

#

i just grabbed the zip and handed it off to them

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 5:13 PM

#

can you resend me that zip

#

or where did you got it?

spring pond Nov 14, 2016, 5:13 PM

#

ya, we have to translate our hands up a bunch compared to the motion controller root

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 5:13 PM

#

i got it from a callum underwood email

spring pond Nov 14, 2016, 5:13 PM

#

I cannot send it to you (NDA)

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 5:13 PM

#

but ive signed that nda too

spring pond Nov 14, 2016, 5:13 PM

#

it was on an AWS share

#

i don't know that 😛

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 5:13 PM

#

where is that?

#

well, i have touch

#

all touch people have signed it

spring pond Nov 14, 2016, 5:14 PM

#

look in the VIP forum

#

its posted there

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 5:14 PM

#

ah

#

gonna check

#

got a link to the thread?

#

you mean the OculusHandDemoAsset.zip?

spring pond Nov 14, 2016, 5:19 PM

#

Let me check

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 5:20 PM

#

not sure if they have updated it since i downloaded it

#

but if you say its just .fbx and its offcenter

#

then its those

#

were you able to setup the material well?

spring pond Nov 14, 2016, 5:20 PM

#

I think its in the PDF

#

Its a 145MB file

#

"HandSamples_Confidential.zip"

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 5:22 PM

#

yours is newer then

#

mine is OculusHandDemoAssets.zip

#

do you have the DL link?

#

i have access to everything

#

or link to forum thread

#

as i cant find it

#

my dl link to oculus handd demo asset.zip was sent on a "TouchCareAndFeeding.pdf" that they sent me when they sent me the things

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 5:28 PM

#

@wicked oak hi! If you have time, could you check out the #multiplayer channel? I went with rep notify after conversation with eXi. But I'm getting a ever slower update from client to server now (like 1 every 10 seconds, very sporadic) I put up a picture there and didn't wanna spam the vr channel, since it's multiplayer related.

#

Neither him or me could make sense of the results :/

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 5:29 PM

#

thats too odd

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 5:29 PM

#

Everything looks smooth from the clients perspective.. but not from server

#

I'm using a listen server if that makes any difference

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 5:30 PM

#

and im doing that too

frosty robin Nov 14, 2016, 5:31 PM

#

Yeah feels very strange.

spring pond Nov 14, 2016, 6:33 PM

#

@wicked oak I got it from somewhere on that Oculus VIP forum. I'm 99% sure you've signed that NDA, but I can't go giving out other people's assets

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 7:04 PM

#

did they change the vip forum adress or something?

#

it gives nothing on me

#

this using the same account that has the game creation credentials and that kind of thing

spring pond Nov 14, 2016, 8:13 PM

#

If you are logged it it should be one of the forums on the right hand drop down

#

VIP IN DA CLUB

📎 VIP.png

#

but I'm pretty sure I just clicked a link in a PDF somewhere...

#

it was an AWS S3 link

leaden jackal Nov 14, 2016, 8:15 PM

#

Is there any way to use CPU and GPU profiling tools with GearVR?

mighty carbon Nov 14, 2016, 8:29 PM

#

turn on developer mode, run your app before inserting phone into Gear VR, open console, type in: stat startfile

#

put it into Gear VR, test your app/game, once done, take phone out, open console, type in: stat stopfile

#

close your app, copy stat file into your PC, open it with profiler and there you have it

#

you can also use stat cmds in the same manner (to get basic stats)

leaden jackal Nov 14, 2016, 8:34 PM

#

Awesome, thanks!

#

@spring pond Thanks for that screenshot. I just got my golden ticket to the VIP Room last week but didn't even notice it on the forums, lol

mighty carbon Nov 14, 2016, 8:38 PM

#

what's in VIP Room ?

spring pond Nov 14, 2016, 8:40 PM

#

It's just another forum where people can talk about Early Access SDK/Firmware/Touch

#

(ie. anything under NDA)

wicked oak Nov 14, 2016, 9:14 PM

#

i had a link to an AWS download

#

but that was for the older one

#

august version

pallid echo Nov 14, 2016, 10:18 PM

#

Has anyone figured out how to get the Vive camera to be activated/deactived with UE4 yet?

velvet cave Nov 14, 2016, 10:22 PM

#

You mean the actual camera on it?

wintry escarp Nov 14, 2016, 10:36 PM

#

spigen armor case looks like it would protect the s7

#

gearvr seems a very poorly thought out system

#

why not allow an option to deploy over wifi so it can be left in the headset

pallid echo Nov 14, 2016, 10:55 PM

#

@velvet cave Yup. The actual camera on the Vive.

neon egret Nov 14, 2016, 10:57 PM

#

I doubt that's easily possible @pallid echo

#

The Camera might just be a second device that UE4 doesn't even have registered

pallid echo Nov 14, 2016, 10:59 PM

#

Its no where close to easy, I tried but only got so far before I was like, "Welp, this is beyond my knowledge ATM" lol

neon egret Nov 14, 2016, 11:00 PM

#

Search for something else

#

Check if there is docs about getting a simple webcam into ue4

#

cause that's what the vive cam is

#

@pallid echo

pallid echo Nov 14, 2016, 11:02 PM

#

Well look at that:

#

https://forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?98931-Web-camera-plugin

Hello!

I had to access the web camera in-engine for one of my projects, so I though I would share it with the community!

https://github.com/Temaran/UE4Webcamera

I implemented it using directshow, so only windows support for now.

Hopefully it's useful to someone :)
And if you would like to contribute, please do! It still needs multiplatform support, Easy BP support etc.

#

And this 😄

#

https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/API/Runtime/GameLiveStreaming/IGameLiveStreaming/GetWebCamTexture/index.html

Exposes access to the web cam video feed as a 2D texture

dry fjord Nov 14, 2016, 11:04 PM

#

leave the vive cam turned off, strap another webcam to your face instead

neon egret Nov 14, 2016, 11:05 PM

#

Na seriouly

dry fjord Nov 14, 2016, 11:05 PM

#

I am serious

#

don't do it

neon egret Nov 14, 2016, 11:05 PM

#

Why

dry fjord Nov 14, 2016, 11:05 PM

#

the camera should never have been added, it can't handle the bandwidth of the feed AND do tracking

#

the number one way to fix vive problems is to turn the camera off

neon egret Nov 14, 2016, 11:05 PM

#

I used it to record gameplay and it worked fine

#

but ok

dry fjord Nov 14, 2016, 11:05 PM

#

maybe you got lucky 😄

neon egret Nov 14, 2016, 11:06 PM

#

Na i just deactivated it in SteamVR and used it as a webcam

#

And that worked

dry fjord Nov 14, 2016, 11:06 PM

#

ah I see

#

the problem must be in steamvr then

#

that's cool because all i wanted to do with it was see what was going on around me

neon egret Nov 14, 2016, 11:07 PM

#

Yeah you can add it to your fav braod caster software

#

and add it as a webcam

#

and show both

pallid echo Nov 14, 2016, 11:08 PM

#

^

#

This as well:

https://wiki.unrealengine.com/Integrating_OpenCV_Into_Unreal_Engine_4

Integrating OpenCV Into Unreal Engine 4

dry fjord Nov 14, 2016, 11:09 PM

#

awesome

real needle Nov 15, 2016, 4:26 AM

#

I'm testing out my new MSI 1060 laptop, and playing games on both Vive/Rift works great, I'm pretty impressed. HOWEVER, in editor, the rift drops to 25 fps where the vive works flawlessly, and I'm having a hard time troubleshooting it...

#

I have both SteamVR and OVR plugins enabled, and I've never had an issue with them interfering with eachother before

#

Instanced Stereo on, config files set to low like I always have them

#

It's very apparent that it's not lack of hardware performance but something else. Could be the forward renderer...

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 4:28 AM

#

you may have to disable the SteamVR plugin in UE4, or just disable the OVR plugin and use the SteamVR handles for abstracted headset/motioncontrollers

real needle Nov 15, 2016, 4:29 AM

#

I could do that, but there's one issue: The fucking menu buttons on touch

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 4:29 AM

#

fffffff

real needle Nov 15, 2016, 4:29 AM

#

They have their own handles

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 4:29 AM

#

yeah

#

le shrug

real needle Nov 15, 2016, 4:30 AM

#

I don't need the capacitive events, but without the menu buttons it gets hard

#

Imma try anyway and see if it fixes it

#

I'll report to Oculus if it does

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 4:30 AM

#

see if you can find a way to thunk in the menu button stuff externally for now, and bug Valve about it as well as Oculus, and Epic

#

AutoHotKey might work, but it is a specific OVR SDK delegate

#

does this issue persist on a desktop?

real needle Nov 15, 2016, 4:32 AM

#

I'll test it

#

In a bit, packaging a project built on source...

#

Gotta love those rocket builds

#

Rocket packaging speed!

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 4:33 AM

#

🚀 🚀 🚀

real needle Nov 15, 2016, 4:33 AM

#

you actually knew that one

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 4:33 AM

#

😉

real needle Nov 15, 2016, 4:34 AM

#

The new touch demo is awesome

#

Comes with the oculus runtime now

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 4:34 AM

#

what is it?

real needle Nov 15, 2016, 4:34 AM

#

First Contact!

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 4:34 AM

#

ohhhhh

real needle Nov 15, 2016, 4:34 AM

#

Same team that did Toybox

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 4:34 AM

#

right, that

real needle Nov 15, 2016, 4:34 AM

#

Made in Unreal

#

Prettyyyyy

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 4:35 AM

#

do they have a tech whitepaper or anything, they included OFR with it right?

real needle Nov 15, 2016, 4:35 AM

#

Tech whitepaper? It looks like they did

#

Same as Farlands

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 4:36 AM

#

something that talks about how they slammed things together to make UE4 ideal for oculus forward pipeline, etc.

real needle Nov 15, 2016, 4:36 AM

#

Ah

#

Well there's an old one

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 4:36 AM

#

ideally a github repo

real needle Nov 15, 2016, 4:36 AM

#

From when they released it in 4.11

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 4:36 AM

#

yeah....

real needle Nov 15, 2016, 4:37 AM

#

I haven't seen anything else

#

Runs great without OVR

#

But it doesn't seem to respond to "Set Tracking Origin"

#

The guardian system seems to override Chaperone

#

Which I don't mind because it's actually pretty good

#

It highlights around your hands when they get close to the boundaries

#

Worth to point out that the Oculus Library can be used without the OVR-plugin, but Oculus Input plugin doesn't work without OVR

dry fjord Nov 15, 2016, 4:59 AM

#

when they fix that bug with chaperone in packaged games you'll be able to do a custom cage in UE

#

I have a multi step cage that hilights near the offending part, but goes from weak, to mid, to STAY THE FUCK AWAY RED

#

it has diagonal "warning" signs on it

real needle Nov 15, 2016, 5:00 AM

#

yeah I did a hacky one where I just set the max boundaries to 2x2

#

for The Wake

dry fjord Nov 15, 2016, 5:00 AM

#

sweet

real needle Nov 15, 2016, 5:00 AM

#

#safetyspikes

#

The Oculus Guardian is really nice though

#

It's more smooth than chaperones hard edges

dry fjord Nov 15, 2016, 5:02 AM

#

guys can we do a quick public announcement

#

this is not what VR is for

📎 3500.png

#

thank you, please continue

real needle Nov 15, 2016, 5:02 AM

#

wow

#

Tragic if the first released product from the SteamVR tracking licencees is a doll

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 5:03 AM

#

nooo0o0o0o0oOOOO

#

(yes?)

dry fjord Nov 15, 2016, 5:04 AM

#

it'll almost certainly be a gun controller

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 5:04 AM

#

no

#

might be a ping-pong paddle... time will tell

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 5:04 AM

#

@dry fjord Highly disagree! That's the main thing that VR is about! fondling mannequin boobs!

dry fjord Nov 15, 2016, 5:05 AM

#

ok but only if you invest equal time into fondling MANequin crotch

#

please represent all demographics

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 5:05 AM

#

much more cost effective to just surgically implant neural waystations in motor and somatosensory neurons

#

who wants to buy a bunch of lifelike, eerily warm squish mannequins anyway

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 5:06 AM

#

Tens of thousands of people!

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 5:06 AM

#

yeah...

#

yeah.

dry fjord Nov 15, 2016, 5:08 AM

#

https://giphy.com/gifs/ten-J0rIGyBu4cgTe

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 5:14 AM

#

I'd love to squeeze Mr. Incredible's foam thighs.

dry fjord Nov 15, 2016, 5:30 AM

#

I would snuggle up to one like a pillow

#

which is what it may be

#

actually those legs are way off

#

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/disney-infinity/images/c/cb/Bob2.png/revision/latest?cb=20140818210426

dry fjord Nov 15, 2016, 7:54 AM

#

http://uploadvr.com/tpcast-now-claims-vive-wireless-kit-offers/

UploadVR

TPCAST Now Claims Vive Wireless Kit Offers <2ms Latency

An update to TPCAST's website now claims that its wireless upgrade kit for the Vive offers less than 2ms of latency at 90fps.

#

I might jack it to that later on

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 8:16 AM

#

Shit yeah

#

If it's as good as they claim, once verified, I'm all over that shibs

dry fjord Nov 15, 2016, 9:04 AM

#

yeah NOW I'm keen

hard light Nov 15, 2016, 10:57 AM

#

I don't believe that claim is even possible.

wicked oak Nov 15, 2016, 11:20 AM

#

i dunno, but its a shit ton of data to send in 2 ms

#

unless the bandwith of the channel is absolutely huge, im not sure they can do the 2 ms claim

#

the 10 ms claim was already hard enough

real needle Nov 15, 2016, 11:28 AM

#

It's not 2ms "motion to photon", 2ms is the transfer delay. There's other stuff like compression delay etc. Their 15ms statement is closer to the total delay of the system, but probably 15-20. It might be totally fine but I haven't heard anyone I'd trust to make a judgement try one

#

I think they're trying to be market first, I'm sure there's better stuff in the pipeline from unannounced products

wicked oak Nov 15, 2016, 11:33 AM

#

that second gen its going to be really cool

#

4k displays, wireless, inside out tracking?

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 11:57 AM

#

@wicked oak That sounds like a second gen that's 5 years away... according to Michael Abrash 😛

#

Personally, I think we'll prbably see second gen HMDs in a couple more years. A lot of competition in the space, even if the tech is hard.

#

So manufacturers like HTC will want to press their advantage in building a market while they can

#

Mainly I'd expect to see in second gen, improved HMD design, better res, slightly better FOV, improved controller design, possibly an interesting 'big' feature like camera based motion tracking (hands/body) or eye tracking, or wireless, but not all of them at once.

hard light Nov 15, 2016, 12:01 PM

#

15ms total delay is just about doable

#

20ms is the point where things start becoming unplayable

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 12:01 PM

#

Better all around and would make most of us want to upgrade. But not the Abrash 5 year prediction spec (4k/eye tracking/inside out/wireless)

wicked oak Nov 15, 2016, 12:53 PM

#

i think the controllers like the Touch are real good

#

the step over those is basically just going with full gloves

#

and gloves WITH feedback

real needle Nov 15, 2016, 12:58 PM

#

@wicked oak Touch is trying to be what knuckles is

#

Getting rid of that grip button makes it so much easier to design for everyone

#

Believe it or not but people actually have issues with the grip, even on touch

#

It's not entirely natural

#

Where knuckles are, since you're actually doing the same motion you've done a million times to grip

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 2:35 PM

#

What are knuckles?

#

The grip button is fantastic! I use it as a shift button.

frosty robin Nov 15, 2016, 2:42 PM

#

The grip button is extremely intuitive if you use is, especially from what I've noticed with our user tests.

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 2:42 PM

#

Like... I hate that some devs think that any amount of learning is too much for users.

#

There's a difference between taking 5-10 minutes to get acclimatized to something

#

and a few hours to come to grips with something.

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 2:45 PM

#

what do we gain from 4k displays in the HMDs if no one has GPUs to handle that at smooth fps

#

I think the display tech is really not the problem, displays get better extremely fast, but GPUs only improve really slow

#

it will take like forever before GPUs can handle 4k 90 fps with a game that doesn't look like some mobile game, so has stuff like dynamic shadows at an acceptable view distance etc

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 2:49 PM

#

With 4k display, we assume decent foveated rendering is available

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 2:50 PM

#

and in VR it would be really nice to have something like GI too, but even without VR dynamic GI already really slow

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 2:50 PM

#

Also ASW is widespread

#

At worse, it'll be an option for developers to consider

#

Do I take advantage of frame rate or resolution?

#

And for gamers to decide if they want to build beast machines

#

with SLI or something crazy

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 2:51 PM

#

ASW is nice but the better the resolution of the display the more you see smaller artifacts caused by something like ASW I guess

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 2:51 PM

#

Well, you'll see more of all artifacts in more clarity

#

But the overall visual is still much better and nicer than the current displays

#

At least that's what I'd wager would be preferable for most people.

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 2:52 PM

#

and even if 45 fps would be acceptable for the majority, GPUs would still be too slow

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 2:52 PM

#

How far out are you thinking?

#

I'm using Abrash's 5 year timeline

#

4k in 5 years is pretty conservative.

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 2:53 PM

#

well I think in 1 year you can easily get a 90 fps OLED 4k display. but there will be no GPU that could power that in VR

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 2:54 PM

#

Eh. Worst that'd happen is you'd have better fill rate and some people building beast machines to power it.

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 2:54 PM

#

I'm just talking about that the displays won't really need to evolve any more because GPUs are so slow

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 2:54 PM

#

the screens exist, I think the cables/transfer protocols are more of an issue 😃 but 4k HMDs will happen within 2 years

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 2:54 PM

#

I mean I don't disagree with you; that GPUs are lagging displays

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 2:54 PM

#

I want to see more innovation in optics and FOV though, and HDR! Resolution isnt the all important thing here

#

GPU can be solved with new rendering methods 😃 esp. when we can do foveated rendering

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 2:55 PM

#

But I think someone might make it happen anyway just because some people will have use for it and for the hype marketing factor

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 2:56 PM

#

and even with 4k displays you will still see the individual pixels

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 2:56 PM

#

Especially if decent eye-tracking happens within that time span.

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 2:56 PM

#

if my research goes according to plan, by May I'll have made a prototype HMD that is capable of rendering 4k by 4k per eye on conventional hardware (including cable)

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 2:56 PM

#

@winged shale really?

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 2:56 PM

#

Dont forget all the VR rendering improvements we've had over the past 2 years! instanced stereo, hidden mesh removal etc

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 2:57 PM

#

instanced stereo makes stuff just slower for some games

#

I never saw improvements

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 2:57 PM

#

yep, the only issue right now is sourcing an appropriately dense display

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 2:57 PM

#

@winged shale You work on VR hardware for your day job?

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 2:57 PM

#

😃

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 2:57 PM

#

at what refresh spychiatrist? DP 1.3 or HDMI 2?

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 2:57 PM

#

90Hz

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 2:57 PM

#

Is that on board upscaling?

#

That could work. And provide image quality improvements?

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 2:58 PM

#

it's a few things, a compression algorithm that is my thesis + eye tracking + neurobiological insights

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 2:58 PM

#

4k per eye would be nice

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 2:58 PM

#

Dayum. You got access to some pretty bad ass hardware to pull that shit off.

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 2:58 PM

#

to not see pixels you probably need 16k per eye

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 2:59 PM

#

Also you can probably say good bye to your game. You'll be too busy working on next gen VR HMDs!

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 2:59 PM

#

@royal anchor it has much more to do with the subpixel arrangement

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 2:59 PM

#

most people say between 8k and 16k yeah

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 2:59 PM

#

now for the acuity of the fovea, that's a different story

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 2:59 PM

#

16k would be 20/20

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:00 PM

#

@clever sky I worry about that

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:00 PM

#

@winged shale arrangement? lets just say amount of subpixels, isn't that more accurate?

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:00 PM

#

I mostly meant area

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:00 PM

#

space in between pixels

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:00 PM

#

@winged shale don't you hate when the money diverges from the fun 😛

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:00 PM

#

black gaps cause screen door

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:00 PM

#

pixel fill

#

factor of sub pixel arrangement. Yeah that makes sense.

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:01 PM

#

just moving to hexagonal arrangement will have extreme effects on the visibility of the screen door

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:01 PM

#

Has there ever been a hex arrangement?

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:02 PM

#

not that I'm aware of, no

#

it would be hard to render and then transform appropriately for it

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:02 PM

#

I see. So... it's gonna be quite the feat to pull off

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:02 PM

#

do you think the chromatic aberration stuff will ever be improved much, so can the lenses still get much improvement? I think thats what annoys me most when looking at the vive

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:02 PM

#

but breaking up the longitudinal and lateral lines that make typical displays look like screen doors would aid your perception in forgetting

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:03 PM

#

So how come people hate the pentile display so much?

#

Doesn't that operate on a similar principle?

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:03 PM

#

yeah, that will be improved with better optics, we need better manufacturing tech to make them non-cylindrical

#

it's hard to optimize for all points on the flat screen

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:04 PM

#

pentile is using 2 subpixel per pixel, so that means you have 1/3 less subpixels than with a same resolution RGB panel

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:04 PM

#

ah

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:04 PM

#

having the ability to curve the screen + having the ability to manufacture arbitrary diffractional masses will make things a lot easier

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:04 PM

#

its cheating, just like AMD with their bulldozer cores basically, they aren't real cores and pentile pixel aren't real pixel

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:04 PM

#

hahaha

#

actually the Vive skips every other blue pixel I believe

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:05 PM

#

skips?

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:05 PM

#

which is part of why if you see straight blue on screen it looks... offset. The other part is perceptual and to do with chromatic aberration

#

hold on let me see if I can find the image

#

no I'm pretty sure that was a seeeecret image, but basically the overlay pattern of blue pixels is sized up to like 1.4 times, so per square area one blue is skipped, but the blues are much larger as well

#

has to do with visual acuity and shortwave cone distribution

mighty carbon Nov 15, 2016, 3:08 PM

#

Galaxy S8 will have 4k screen, so whoever has Gear VR can see if 4k is enough for VR or not 😃

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:09 PM

#

Valve has been tweaking the chroma abb correction in the past few udpates

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:09 PM

#

^^this, I barely notice it anymore

#

but that might also be because I'm getting dev legs

#

and/or becoming more complacent

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:10 PM

#

VR legs are BS 😃 lame excuse for bad design 😄 I still get ill right away in the old Tuscany demo and its been uh.. almost 4 years since I saw that first

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:10 PM

#

I puked the first time I tried the DK1

#

fucking rollercoasters

#

also 60FPS

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:11 PM

#

I didnt have any demos when I got my alpha DK1 😃 it wasnt great, but still blew my mind at the time

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:11 PM

#

also poor drift correction, IMU sensor fusion algorithms, etc.

#

blah blah, but yeah DK1 changed the track of my career

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:11 PM

#

yeah tuscany stairs fucked me hard

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:12 PM

#

I did positional tracking with DK1+Hydra like many 😃 it was WAY better than IMUs but not exactly accurate (damn warping)

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:12 PM

#

@heady parrot I saw the steamvr beta changelog with those chroma abb improvements, did it really help?

#

for some reason valve has only released beta versions for like over a month I think, thats unusual for them

#

I never used the beta stuff

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:12 PM

#

I actually haven't tested it yet 😃 do most of my dev on the Rift

#

yeah I swapped from beta at home after having some issues that cost me a few hours. In the end I think it was actually an USB issue though

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:13 PM

#

for some reason, the Rift's ergonomics are shit for me

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:13 PM

#

really? thats rare. What specifically?

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:13 PM

#

I only have a vive so I can't choose 😄

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:13 PM

#

I can't get the device tight enough on my face to get it to focus properly

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:13 PM

#

I find the Vive so uncomfortable compared to Rift

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:14 PM

#

and I can't put it on with my glasses on at all

#

it just all won't fit

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:14 PM

#

yeah they messed up with the glasses

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:14 PM

#

I'm 6' 5" and have a large head

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:14 PM

#

@winged shale You gotta pull them on from the front

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:14 PM

#

so I guess I'm at the > 95% ergo distrubtion

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:14 PM

#

Then slip the back over your head

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:14 PM

#

I got a large head too, so confused why you cant get the straps tight enough? I'd have though that would be the last problem

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:14 PM

#

I've got a big head too

#

And glasses

#

If you don't slip them on from the front, they suck shit.

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:15 PM

#

did you consider getting those lens inserts or a separate pair of "VR friendly" (Harry Potter lookalike) glasses?

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:15 PM

#

it's either the straps aren't tight enough, or the optics are focusing the collimation plane too far for my naked eyes

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:15 PM

#

what I find super annoying about the vive is that damn sound the lighthouses make... thats so annoying. I know its not loud, but very noticable.

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:15 PM

#

and when I have my glasses on it distorts it so I can see the flat edges of the display

hard light Nov 15, 2016, 3:16 PM

#

the lighthouse itself does not make noise

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:16 PM

#

John you got the Pre or retail? I hardly notice it on the retail ones, but I got them on tripods not walls

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:16 PM

#

Pre

hard light Nov 15, 2016, 3:16 PM

#

if you're getting noise, it's vibrating on something

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:16 PM

#

they have motors inside

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:16 PM

#

oh god the Pre lighthouses

#

they're loud

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:16 PM

#

lol

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:16 PM

#

the retail ones can shut off when not in use via Bluetooth

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:16 PM

#

not much louder than the VDK1

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:16 PM

#

oh they are louder than retail? I thought hardware didn't change

hard light Nov 15, 2016, 3:17 PM

#

I have the pre, and mine are mounted firmly on tripods; no noise at all

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:17 PM

#

@hard light quite sure its your ears

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:17 PM

#

I can hear noise from mine when it starts up

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:17 PM

#

they tweaked it slightly. It implements the same thing but I've noticed my CV lighthouses are much quieter

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:17 PM

#

But otherwise pretty much unnoticeable.

#

CV here

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:17 PM

#

I recently moved my computer to a different room and piped in Vive stuff to the Vive room, KB, Mouse, display, etc.

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:17 PM

#

the Pre does not have the bluetooth control, that was added in retail

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:17 PM

#

and without my computer noise I can hear them loud and clear

hard light Nov 15, 2016, 3:17 PM

#

I doubt I'd hear anything from mine unless I were stood with it right next to my ear

spring pond Nov 15, 2016, 3:18 PM

#

Only in a totally silent room do i barely notice the vive lighthouses. They are pretty quite

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:18 PM

#

also the pre houses might have had more use on them too

#

probably about twice as much as the consumer versions by now

#

and if you went from the VDK1 mounting solution plates with the god-awful 3m strips to just screwing on the Pre lighthouses, there will be sway

#

therefore there will be torsional stress on the high-RPM motors

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:20 PM

#

I just measured the noise with my phone, its a nice 4400 Hz

#

@winged shale what?

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:22 PM

#

with VDK1 they included these weird plates for mounting with 3m tape on the wall, that they also included

#

the squish allows for an ever-so-slightly noticeable amount of sway from building movements, etc.

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:22 PM

#

VDK1 is the one before the pre?

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:22 PM

#

yeah

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:22 PM

#

well I never saw that

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:23 PM

#

the sway probably causes some bearing wearing in the motors, it's not good to move your lighthouses when they're in full swing

#

I can take a picture today of them, they're still up on one of our setups

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:23 PM

#

well I just hope valve somehow will be able to remove such high frequency motors from the lighthouses

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:24 PM

#

they're moving to one-motor!

#

super exciting

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:24 PM

#

are there more than 1 motor in a lighthouse atm?

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:24 PM

#

ah that reminds me, didnt finish watching all the Steam Days talks 😃

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:24 PM

#

there's 2, orthogonal

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:24 PM

#

two

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:24 PM

#

well is 1 less loud?

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:24 PM

#

veeeeery likely

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:25 PM

#

my solution atm is just to have music playing, then I don't hear the lighthouses

#

I just usually find it annoying to have music playing when programming

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:25 PM

#

with the old VK1 lighthouses, sometimes the vibration was caused by bad sync so turning them off and on again fixed it

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:25 PM

#

but less annoying than a constant 4400 hz tone

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:25 PM

#

my solution was to keep my computer in the same room, and keep the 1080 running at full-tweak with 100% fans all the time

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:26 PM

#

haha

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:26 PM

#

now it's silent in there >_>

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:26 PM

#

yeah that works too

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:26 PM

#

Headphones? 😃

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:26 PM

#

but the GPU fans are also quite high frequency noise

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:26 PM

#

already a PITA to put the headset on and off to try out a tiny feature you just did

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:26 PM

#

yeah

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:27 PM

#

I can slip the Rift on in like a second, but I dont wear glasses in the headset

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:27 PM

#

and then you're just sitting devving around in a silent room with squeals

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:27 PM

#

yeah

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:27 PM

#

maybe speakers and music would work well for you

#

until 2017 base

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:28 PM

#

any of you got the new Vive cable yet? I was pretty bummed when I bought a Vive like a month ago I didnt get the new one

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:28 PM

#

theres a new one?

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:28 PM

#

ordering a few to replace fraying pre cables

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:28 PM

#

yeah thinner, not a ribbon

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:28 PM

#

I'll let you know about it (hopefully) soon

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:29 PM

#

ok

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:29 PM

#

In tech headlines today: Apple's $300 book contains 450 photos of Apple products

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:29 PM

#

sounds like the Onion

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:30 PM

#

To be fair, it looks pretty swish. I'd buy it for like...

#

$25

#

http://www.wired.co.uk/gallery/apple-book-photos-cost

WIRED UK

Apple's $300 book contains 450 photos of Apple products

The book contains 450 photographs 'chronicling' the company's design from the last 20 years

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:31 PM

#

I dislike Apple so I'm a pretty bad sales target

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:31 PM

#

so basically a catalog you pay for? well done Apple

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:31 PM

#

and I don't really want to turn my living room into an Apple store

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:31 PM

#

Yeah, I get that. I'm just a design fan

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:31 PM

#

totally fair, that's a thing to admire

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:31 PM

#

I dislike apple too but it would be nice if they would build a VR headset

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:31 PM

#

So setting aside everything else I don't like about Apple, I do admire their designs.

#

From an aesthetic viewpoint.

#

Functionality is shittttt

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:32 PM

#

IDK how they would lock the apple VR down to Apple hardware, their computers can't push those frames

#

unless they're going to go the route of mobile VR, which is increasingly flooding the market

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:32 PM

#

If Apple does VR, it'll be mobile.

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:32 PM

#

++

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:32 PM

#

Just like Google

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:33 PM

#

I don't wanna see more mobile VR

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:33 PM

#

++++

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:33 PM

#

agreed

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:33 PM

#

Well, if someone manages to do good positionally tracked mobile VR

#

probably Oculus given that's what john's been working on the entire time.

#

It'll be more interesting.

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:33 PM

#

VR needs extreme GPUs and on mobile you don't have those

#

so that leads to VR being a 360 video thing

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:33 PM

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Only if you want good visual fidelity

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:34 PM

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the damn things are overheating trying to push framerate at 60fps, they sure as hell aren't going to be able to add SLAM on top of that

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:34 PM

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You can do stylistic graphics on mobile for VR decently.

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Like... PS2 era stuff.

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:34 PM

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and after 30 minutes your battery is empty

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:34 PM

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And you know... a lot of experiences are ok like that.

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:34 PM

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untethered VR is super interesting and so is "standalone" devices.. but using a phone for it? not exactly optimal

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:35 PM

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@full junco not if you've got a Pixel

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👻

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:35 PM

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mobile VR would basically need a fan to work good and having a fan on your face would be strange

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:36 PM

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yeah advancements in mobile are gonna happen in the headset

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:36 PM

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good "mobile" VR you only get with somehow having the hardware on your back or as a belt or whatver

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that makes sense

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:36 PM

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including localized tracking, processing, etc.

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eye tracking

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and at that point why not just make it a standalone device that doesn't have to compete for compute resources

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:37 PM

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computing devices are getting smaller, but battery tech and power utilization needs a giant leap in the next few years. Things just heat up too much!

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:37 PM

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thats something nintendo should do, build a nice standalone VR device with awesome games

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:37 PM

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Im hoping that nano battery tech will take off in my lifetime 😃

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:37 PM

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I'd buy the shit out of that

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call it... the Virtual Boy

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:37 PM

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lol

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comes with a tripod!

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:38 PM

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thing about batteries: the tech is THERE but manufacturing is the issue

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:38 PM

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Quick question: Can you rebake lighing for selected meshes in Unreal?

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rather than the whole scene

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:39 PM

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well the problem is now that progress with CPUs/GPUs slowed down so crazy much, now would be the time we actually need something like a 10x increase in performance because of VR

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:39 PM

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there's this one company that is able to hit 2x energy density, and is going to be successful ONLY because they're producing parts to make their batteries with existing Li-Ion manufacturing techniques, just drop-in-drop-out materials

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there was a good MIT Tech Review article about them

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and yes Moore's law is dead, RIP

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:40 PM

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Well... li-ion battery tech has been improving energy density steadily over the last few decades.

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:40 PM

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unfortunately there's only so small that we can shrink the anode and cathode

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:40 PM

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It's doubling every 7 or so years.

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:41 PM

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the tech is about the surface area that the lithium electrode contacts with the polymer substrate

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and the size of Li atoms is not decreasing

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:41 PM

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well battery tech is "just fine" for most stuff now, I worry much more about CPU/GPUs

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:41 PM

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Volta is promising, as NV always is, but after that... IDK

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:41 PM

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Yup. I'd rather have proper VR "at home" than worrying about mobile

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:42 PM

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Eh. We're just going to have to accept transistor stagnation for a while.

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:42 PM

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they need to make graphen CPUs work

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:42 PM

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We're going to get sidegrades for the next decade

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until we move onto graphene.

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Whenever you decide to get your butt here graphene!

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Starting to sound like the fusion of materials.

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:42 PM

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yeah, like the phone industry lol, "die size is better as it gets bigger!"

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already seeing that trend

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:43 PM

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I'd be happy enough if they can do multi GPU properly 😃 but that is as much a software problem, but needs better buses too

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:43 PM

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multi gpu isn't the solution

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:43 PM

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On the flipside graphene research is getting super funded

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while fusion research is... really not.

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:43 PM

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the industry motivating force is computer architecture, not nanomaterials

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:43 PM

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Confusingly and terrifyingly.

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:43 PM

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a single high end GPU will basically always stay at ~300W I think

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:44 PM

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how can we optimize all of this spaghetti VLSI

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it's coming down to layout now too

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maybe we'll see 'EZ' 3-d ASIC and silicon fab

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:45 PM

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what about 3D designs? HBM is quite promising

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imagine a CPU that is a cube, not a thin wafer

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:45 PM

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it still eats more watts

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:45 PM

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that's pretty much what I just said, so yeah

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:45 PM

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the watts are the problem, not the size

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:46 PM

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Some CPU dude that I talked to a while ago seemed to think that the possibility of 3D CPUs was been overstated.

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:46 PM

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at 3d-manufacturing, density of transistors can decrease, which will decrease power usage

clever sky Nov 15, 2016, 3:46 PM

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Science/tech journalism and all that

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:47 PM

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why would reduction of density mean decrease of power usage?

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:47 PM

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how do you transfer heat from within though? heat pipe mesh lattice?

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:47 PM

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less ambient temperature enclosure, less electron-tunneling etc. but then the whole thing is insulated so it's gonna get really hot

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reduction of density in 3-d

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:47 PM

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So John what you are saying is we need to drastically reduce watt usage to be able to scale futher?

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:47 PM

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not 2d

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reduction in 2d means that wires get even longer, which is bad

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:48 PM

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but wouldn't it be strange if silicon would really be the best material to use for semiconductors? they use it for such a long time now and usuall the thing thats used 40 years ago should long be replaced by something better

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:48 PM

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more resistance nearly correlates with more power, etc.

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:48 PM

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@heady parrot yes

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:48 PM

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often the reason to use something is cost more than anything 😃

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:48 PM

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NV realizes this, AMD apparently does not

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about power usage

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:49 PM

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increasing die size is easy, but you can't cool a GPU with 2000W even if it would be cheap to manufacture

heady parrot Nov 15, 2016, 3:49 PM

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hasnt AMD been doing a lot of work lately to reduce wattage?

winged shale Nov 15, 2016, 3:49 PM

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they're crazy behind though

full junco Nov 15, 2016, 3:49 PM

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AMD and nvidia both have the main goal of reducing power usage

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every chip manufacturer has