on your PC
#virtual-reality
abstract gale
quartz pewter
yes
i can hear sound in the vive
in steam menu or in other games
when i play in selected viewport, i can hear sound through the vive headphones
if i play in vr mode the sounds dont work
abstract gale
hard to believe no sound at all is coming from either PC or VIVE, have not seen this.
if u look at your sound device manager
quartz pewter
there is sound coming from the pc
quartz pewter
just no sounds ive placed in my game in vr mode
abstract gale
so when u run game in VR mode, no sound from PC or VIVE?
in windows, make sure u right click, on volume, or however u want to check playback devices.. and see if sound is being output...in the volume display on right hand side.. it will light up green at various levels. you should still see something being output, even if u cant hear it
the only issues ive really seen with either 3d spatialized or VR sounds is the device issues in plyback, or the sound is not a mono sound and doesnt play properly for spatialized 3d
quartz pewter
yeah ive tried both normal speakers and vive
no sound comes out if i play in vr
if its selected viewport theres sound
abstract gale
do you look at playback devices.. and see any green play when sound should be going?
quartz pewter
i can see the sound visualised if its in selectyed viewport, not in vr tho
abstract gale
did you try a constant music repeat file, without sound triggers
somthn that just keeps playing
and check device playback for green indicators to see if something is in fact playing?
quartz pewter
yeah, no sound triggers
i can only see green playback in selected viewport
when i can also hear the sound
in vr, no sound or green playback
abstract gale
wtf weird. i have a few builds and it does work in 4.13.
abstract gale
not sure whats diff about your setup or system
quartz pewter
also has happened on 2 diff pcs
abstract gale
so it was working?
quartz pewter
was working fine on second pc
abstract gale
hmm, i almost wonder if its a sound device issue
the same pc has no issue with playing a vive game for example tho
and hearing sound
thats what u described it seems like
thats a tough one, havent heard of a similar issue from anyone, have you?
quartz pewter
ive googled everything i can think of and nothing
tested on the 2nd pc earlier with an outdated project and sound worked
when we updated the project (new level, sound files added and placed in scene) the sound problem then occured
silk lodge
try a different project
silk lodge
is steamVR changing the audio settings?
quartz pewter
tried 2 diff projects, rift and vive, and 2 different engine versions
what do you mean?
silk lodge
steamVR can change audio device settings when it goes live
quartz pewter
had the same issue with the rift through oculus home though
abstract gale
did u try previous sound files instead of updated ones?
somthn aint addn up
if you create a new project based on 4.13 vr template, a new blank mono sound file that plays fine, and loop that in you project, in VR mode, it should play hands down, at least on a valid playback device, show green
wintry escarp
hmmm discord says someone mentioned my name but I scrolled back and cant see it
wintry escarp
anyone recommend a good sdacrd for Samsung s7 that's fast/affordable? 64gb
mighty carbon
I mentioned your name @wintry escarp
posted a link to official requirements for Daydream phone by Google
did you get S7 after all ?
wintry escarp
yes, it probably wont do daydream
there seemed to be doubt over the axon7 even though it seems to meet all requirements, the sd821 is only a tiny bit faster than the sd820
sly chasm
Ok, I finnally got my motherboard
let's hope I install it right and the rift will work
wintry escarp
got a new mobo just for new usb ports?
sly chasm
yeah
but I needed the upgrade anyway
I can only have 16 gb ram max, and 4 usb ports
and it only had 2 sata 3 cables
wintry escarp
hardware wise the Samsung s7 should meet daydream requirements, but google seem to be moving the goalposts to make their phone top of the shortlist.
s7 has gearvr as fallback, axon7 was great hardware but no fallback if they block daydreamvr on it
mighty carbon
wintry escarp
I see nothing there that plenty if high end android phones don't have
of
current top cpus and amoled screen should do it
charred trellis
Anyone around that could possibly help with a quick question about foliage LOD's?
wintry escarp
good chance your windows might go screwey
wintry escarp
nn
charred trellis
Has anyone used the SLI feature in Nvidia VRWORKS?
pearl tangle
havent tested it out in quite a while
their multi res 1 is the interesting 1. Raw Data has it integrated in theirs
charred trellis
Yeah I actually just got it working in 4.13
Multres that is
it's actually really pretty awesome.
Mutlires with forward renderer and MSAA is going to be insane
Working on trying SLI next here
pearl tangle
yeah keen to see how much of a performance boost that gives. I have a spare 1080 i can drop into my current machine if it works well
charred trellis
Yeah i've got two 980ti hybrids i'm going to try it with tomorrow
pearl tangle
ive got an msi seahawk 1080 on this other machine and pretty impressed with it. Seems like the EVGA hybrid 1 is the best for overclocking at the moment but think im going to wait for the ti to upgrade my 980 at home
charred trellis
Yeah I would imagine a 1080 is pretty fantastic. Ideally I'd like that but I'm trying to save $800 to see if I can get the 980ti's going in sli. This build im working on now is for a very specific purpose (a vr exhibit).
pearl tangle
yeah thats the same stuff i do
i did a little mini itx build with hybrid 1080 and water cooled cpu but annoying to lug around overseas with me all the time still so i also just got a zotak zbox 1070. runs really well actually
beats my water cooled 980 machine i have at home
charred trellis
heh right. for traveling not the greatest. once this one is setup it will stay there for a little while 😃
Hey i just started using this discord group, is there a way to tell how many people are in each channel? I only see the list of everyone on the server on the left
i mean right
pearl tangle
yeah the mini itx 1 was the smallest possible water cooled build i could do. I had a flight case made up to hold 2 machines and 2 vive setups but its too damn big and heavy to take overseas. so for this trip im doing this week im taking the mini pc for 1 and a gx700 laptop without the water cooler for the other
charred trellis
Nice. You in the states?
pearl tangle
im not sure how you can see how many are in each channel because people jump between all of them and you dont have to join an individual channel or anything
nah im in singapore
charred trellis
Right on
pearl tangle
did an event in chicago a few weeks ago and doing the same 1 in barcelona next week and demoing a prototype enterprise tool using vr at Utility Week there at the same time
charred trellis
Nice. I'm heading to Kansas next week, flying with the PC and all that
last time TSA searched the computer
dry fjord
@charred trellis of Quake fame?
charred trellis
That'd be awesome because I LOVE quake but probably somebody esle
pearl tangle
hah yeah they broke the damn lock on my good bag to get at all my shit
even though its a proper TSA lock. the combination on it now no longer does anything so i cant lock the bag
charred trellis
Ha yeah, im a little concerned but im sure it will be fine
pearl tangle
@clever sky
nothing of mine broke with the computers, just the damn lock
so now i have to go get an extra strap thing to put around it or something
pearl tangle
hah yeah
had to split up the 3d model to then make it that i could ignore decals on it
dry fjord
I think the quake level dev at ID was named Xian
charred trellis
Hey Antidamage, I've adjusted all the SG. settings
i have console commands that execute
but for some reason when I package the game, these settings get changed
It only started don this in 4.13
in 4.12 with basically the same project its fine
clever sky
The dirt one
clever sky
Yeah that's slick
pearl tangle
and i now figured out a method to make it way more like the avatar map now. after this demo going to completely rebuild everything from scratch, hopefully with some funding
granite jacinth
I need a challenger for the next Game Dev Battle! #3 !!!
Would love to get some "experts" in VR to have some fun
clever sky
Is there a theme to the battle?
pearl tangle
also what is game dev battle?
and what martial arts styles do you know if its a battle to the death?
granite jacinth
The theme would be announced at the start of the Battle
It's just to see who can complete the task assigned to them
So far it's been "Recreate the first 10 secs of Super Mario Bros" and last night's was "Recreate the first level of Mega Man X"
I would like the 3rd one to be VR oriented
Probably something a bit more original
clever sky
Fair enough. Well good luck with it. Don't have time for game dev battles myself!
pearl tangle
oh nice so you are doing it every night?
this just for your youtube/twitch or something?
pearl tangle
what time and timezone are you doing that in?
granite jacinth
@pearl tangle I mean, I am American, but I will work with the participants
I am available almost at anytime/day
So, if I am hosting, I can cater to a wide range of devs
Which, I am going to be hosting the next one, so that's why I asking
pearl tangle
ah gotcha. im going to be travelling for work the next couple weeks but my other developer @astral thistle could be interested? We are GMT +8
granite jacinth
That's fine, If @astral thistle Wants to play, please PM me ASAP! I have someone else wanting to do a VR battle next week.
astral thistle
@granite jacinth What day next week are you thinking?
clever sky
Why is it a biased review?
mighty carbon
it's been said by many light bleed is awful, and even on some pics in the article you can see that Daydream View has gaps all over it. Yet, no word about that.
Just read another article and the person said phone gets extremely hot.
Galaxy S6 in Gear VR doesn't get hot unless you play some hardware demanding games
whole article is "it's some much better than Gear VR" without actual facts or analysis
that's the impression I got
oh, and apparently when using it in compatibility mode (a la Cardboard), controller wouldn't work.
and people still gushing over that it can be used with many phones, yet Pixel is literally the only phone and I haven't seen any official announcements from any manufacturer about Daydream phone coming in 2017
clever sky
Hmmm. Fair points.
So basically you're saying that it's biased through omissions
On the flipside, I do think motion controllers (even a limited one like the daydream controller) are essential for a decent interactive VR experience.
So, if I did develop for mobile VR, it'd need a motion controller... of which there's only one player in town currently!
Discounting peripherals for the GearVR (not interested in developing for peripherals unless they've sold very very well)
But all this is basically pushing me towards - wait for next gen.
But the headset design can't be the only version in town right? Like some third party manufacturer will release their own design that improves on the failings of the Daydream view
mighty carbon
well, yeah, motion controls are the thing in VR
however, Gear VR is positioned as media consumption device (I am guessing based on data at hand of Samsung), which doesn't require controllers. Maybe S8, being all that powerful, will come with motion controller and won't be positioned as media consumption device only.
clever sky
But Daydream has a silver bullet that Gear VR lacks.
Native Youtube support.
Hard to ignore easy access to the biggest content portal out there.
mighty carbon
I haven't seen any mind blowing youTube VR videos
clever sky
That Google purposefully blocked from access on GearVR
mighty carbon
Gear VR has Twitch and Vimeo and former-Milk VR
clever sky
It's the biggest repository of 360 videos in the world.
AND of just normal video content
mighty carbon
and Facebook streaming (at 6k resolution I believe, but I don't know if it's already available or not)
clever sky
Twitch and Vimeo are relative side notes. Like having yahoo access and not Google access
mighty carbon
you mean biggest dump of videos ?
clever sky
Dump and original user content
mighty carbon
sure, youTube is huge, but as far as VR goes, there isn't anything great there
pixelated monoscopic videos with moving camera
clever sky
What are you talking about? Been able to watch normal video content on a huge virtual screen is a good use of mobile VR
mighty carbon
there is no reason for VR video makers not to upload to Vimeo and youTube simultaneously
clever sky
While high quality stereoscopic 360 (or even 180) is fairly rare and takes up huge amounts of bandwidth
No there's not. And yet many don't.
mighty carbon
and only Facebook allows 6k streaming without requiring extra bandwidth, thanks to Carmack's new technique for 360 deg. video streaming, where piece you are focused on is 6k, but outward from that spot resolution drops. Kinda like mipmaps.
YouTube has nothing like that
clever sky
Anyway. The point is - it's hard to position the Gear VR as the media VR device, when it's lacking access to the media portal.
mighty carbon
who said youTube is the only media portal ?!
clever sky
Who said Gear VR is the only media VR device?
mighty carbon
it reminds me of Vive vs Rift debate
clever sky
No one. Stop misinterpreting my arguments
Which one is the Rift and which one is the Vive?
It'd be a more similar argument if Valve explicitly blocked the Rift from working on its store.
mighty carbon
and more decent review of Daydream : http://www.roadtovr.com/google-daydream-review-view-casual-vr-closes-the-gap/
wintry escarp
theres a LOT of google reviews around now that read like paid adverts
pixelxl camera has serious issues but almost every review ignores it
mighty carbon
yep
that's why I don't trust Google
hopefully Gear VR will get some form of motion controllers
maybe as an accessory (official) as I don't think they are going to release a new Gear VR in 2017
wintry escarp
I don't get why it doesn't already have a daydream like controller
mighty carbon
based on stats, I guess, Samsung doesn't think there is a huge demand
most of people who own Gear VR use it to watch movies / pics
wintry escarp
i do prefer the way the daydream just slides the phone in, no need to clip it into usb
mighty carbon
small percentage of users play games with standard gamepad. Only a tiny group of geeks like us want to have true motion controllers.
also, there might be a conflict of interest with Oculus and maybe that's part of the deal
wintry escarp
apparently i will need a bt xb1 controller with gearvr since the usb port is used
mighty carbon
and with Oculus going standalone untethered route, they have no interest in supporting competing project
wintry escarp
that means gearvr is dead
mighty carbon
no, it's not
wintry escarp
it is if they cant add nice features because oculus don't want competition
mighty carbon
if you have S6+ phone and don't plan on investing into PC + Rift or even untethered Rift, you are going to use Gear VR
there will be market for it for a long time
wintry escarp
for this year yes
mighty carbon
I bet Gear VR is here to stay for a few years for sure
wintry escarp
next year when 20+ phones do daydream and gearvr is falling behind to keep oculus happy?
mighty carbon
so, strike iron while it's hot 😃
wintry escarp
what % would you think have some sort of gamepad for their gearvr?
mighty carbon
no idea
not a lot
better support touch pad and gamepad
also, if your game / app is extremely good, I bet you people will go out of their way to buy gamepad
for example, if someone makes a solid racing game for Gear VR, I'll buy myself XB1S controller 😃
wintry escarp
pretty much guaranteed galaxys8 will do daydream as well
mighty carbon
well, after reading some reviews I am not eager to go with Daydream. Just don't have compelling reason yet.
wintry escarp
people will see the issues with the google view and fix them
if apple wrent such assholes and allowed dev on windows i would have an iphone7+ by now
mighty carbon
but iPhone 7 doesn't support Daydream
or rather other way around
so, going with iPhone would leave you without any VR
wintry escarp
i'd suffer ios vr for huge jump in speed
it's a shame the Axon7 screwed up with their daydreamvr compatability and software, the phone hardware is much nicer than Samsung s7
seems to google moving the goalposts for dayfreamvr though that's the problem
i'd probably got for an Axon8 before an s8
-t
gearvr should be here in 2 weeks
mighty carbon
did you order 2016 model ?
wintry escarp
phone comes with one, 2016 yes
probably trying to clear stock since the note7 is gone
mighty carbon
wintry escarp
hmmmm
10ms means it should register only 1 frame behind, that flying demo looks more than that
hard to tell with flying
could be good if its really 10ms
hard light
guess it depends if it's 10ms device-to-device and not including additional latency like processing costs and refresh rates
wicked oak
that is kind of stupid, IOS cant do VR
there are apps that kind of do it, but works even worse than cardboard most of the time
a gearVR style thing for Iphone 8 would be a great idea
instead of removing the headdphone jack
and their demo has like half a second latency
hard light
Apple are a lost cause, forget about them, lol
wicked oak
lets add 4 usbc to the laptop
and nothing else
oh wait, now you cant connect it with your ihpone
and iphone headphones dont work on it
...
goddamit apple
hard light
there's something like 47 different adapters for current Apple devices
also, I love that the new macbooks have worse hardware than the 4 year old ones
wicked oak
while costing 500 extra
wintry escarp
apple are working on something, they hired a load of vr people a couple of years ago
wicked oak
i doubt apple has any chance against google magic leap and microsoft hololens
wintry escarp
yeah theyre a lost cause as far as actual work hardware goes
only apple would release new high end phone and laptop, with ports that don't match
gearvr can sense head tilt separate from gaze cant it?
mighty carbon
yeah
wintry escarp
righty, need to think of a game idea that's fun instead of just using vr
mighty carbon
I find myself less and less wanting to play "games" in VR
I'd rather enjoy experiences (which isn't 360 deg. videos)
wintry escarp
experience?
wintry escarp
people pay for that?
mighty carbon
yeah
there aren't those 2 examples on Gear VR yet 😃
obviously needs to be a bit interactive.
otherwise it will feel like 360 deg. image
wintry escarp
a fishtank where you grow your things lime tamagochi, but you can swim around it?
like
mighty carbon
whatever you think will grab people's interest 😃
think of VR as time machine, or portal to another worlds / dimensions
wintry escarp
any guess at how crippling the resolution is on gearvr? would forcing it to 1920x1080 get you a speed boost
winged shale
Talking to Jeremy of valve, he mentioned that he thinks VR is a place, not just a thing you do
I agree with that philosophy, there really is a strong memory correlation that you form when you "go there"
At least in my experience
mighty carbon
you can't force resolution in Gear VR. It always runs full res.
wintry escarp
hmmm, nougat 7.1 has a screen force system
you can tell it to run games at HD,FHD,2560
mighty carbon
sure, but Gear VR runs in its own layer disabling most of the OS functionality
it's like super barebones Android
wintry escarp
hopefully they'll add it
its an easy way of boosting performance to see how something will run on better hardware
on my nexus7 at least, gives a massive speed jump
mighty carbon
I recall even UE4's resolution scalability doesn't work
there gotta be a good reason they want you to run at full res
wintry escarp
text etc is a lot more readable at higher res
but some games would get away with lower res/more going on
wintry escarp
bah i got my phone too late to join the nougat beta
jagged vale
in case anyone missed it, epic have run out of HTC vives
mighty carbon
😦
wintry escarp
i though they stopped making gen1 vives, they have a gen2 ready to go
real needle
oh seriously? no more vive dev grants?
wintry escarp
how would you show epic a gearvr game if theyre locked to your headset until you publish?
mighty carbon
record video
wintry escarp
did they finally add a beta tester whitelist system?
mighty carbon
you need to implement Back button support, then use long press to get into Universal menu and there you can choose recording option (although without sound)
yeah, but your game/app still has to go through submission process
if accepted, you can have alpha/beta/rc/release branches and you can generate keys or give access to other people
kinda like what Steam has
mighty carbon
there is side load
you need to get people, who you want to share you development build with, to generate OSIG file and give it to you. You build your app with multiple OSIG files included (up to 10 I recall), give those people .apk, they install it and run it.
normal thorn
I thought there was an optimisation where you make a very simple shape for casting shadows, make it invisible and parent it to the main shape.
but I can't seem to make a shape invisible and cast shadows
am I taking crazy pills and that is not an optimization? Should I make a decal that always points down? is that the trick?
to fake dynamic shadows
mighty carbon
you are using shadow maps, complexity of the casting mesh doesn't matter
(or doesn't matter as much as with old school shadow volumes as in Doom 3)
normal thorn
dynamic, for my airplane
mighty carbon
why not to use proper dynamic shadow cast from stationary light ?
modulated shadow would be even cheaper
normal thorn
was going to with a simpler object
but I can't figure out how to make it invisible
and cast shadows
mighty carbon
but why?!
normal thorn
dynamic shadows are cheaper on lower rez geo
mighty carbon
no, they aren't
whether you have a cube or 10k poly character, shadow will cost you about the same
that's the whole benefit of shadowmaps as they don't depend on polycount of casting object
normal thorn
shadow maps, are you talking about baked lighting?
mighty carbon
no, I am talking about stationary/movable lighting
if your scene is lit with static lights only (lightmaps) then of course you can't have dynamic shadows (shadowmaps)
but since you are on PC, why not to have your directional light to be stationary ?
that would allow you do cast dynamic shadows
mighty carbon
so, what's the problem ?
if your plane is 10k tris and you think you can improve performance by much using some substitute shadow casting object, you will not get any improvement in performance
normal thorn
I was doing a quick test to see
dry fjord
dynamic objects cast dynamic shadows from static lights
as long as they have it selected
it's up to the shadow-caster, not the light source
I believe, that is
clever sky
Congratulations!
sly chasm
The Rift CV1
dry fjord
I guess you'll be hanging out for oculus touch then
sly chasm
yep
pearl tangle
its a hell of a lot more fun
I actually have some pretty juicy insider info about the next Samsung 1 though but under NDA for all of it hah
pearl tangle
well there was always going to be a next gear vr but with all the competitor tech out there at the moment there is a lot better things around they need to compete with such as microsofts setup which combines all the hololens tech, daydream with motion controller and a bunch of the chinese 1s doing inside out tracking etc etc
wintry escarp
next gearvr should drop the usb port use and copy daydream
so I can use a wired controller
pearl tangle
you can/could use a wired controller with the current gear vr but why would you want to?
mighty carbon
just plug it and use it
pearl tangle
there is a usb port on the bottom of the gear vr
wintry escarp
didn't I also ask about the gamepad?
mighty carbon
but using USB-C port for gamepad is
don't recall
didn't see you asking that
so, only works with 2016 Gear VR
but why?!
XBS gamepad works via bluetooth
mighty carbon
you need USB-C dongle
if steering wheels were supported on Android, then I can see playing racing games in Gear VR with steering wheel 😃
@pearl tangle any hint when this super awesome VR thing from Samsung is coming ?
pearl tangle
I am going to be running the launch event for it most likely. A bit of googling should be able to give you a hint as to when that may happen
pearl tangle
yep Samsung loves having their NDA's breached
mighty carbon
ok, how about this - is Oculus going to be behind software ?
pearl tangle
yeah thats a bit of an odd 1. Gotta be some dodgy metals coming from somewhere
wintry escarp
china
pearl tangle
they just did a recall on a bunch of them
wintry escarp
china steel is crap, when they want good steel they buy from Germany
pearl tangle
germany doesn't produce much steel at all
7th or 8th in the world so not too many guys using it from there because its overpriced unless they are manufacturing in germany
dry fjord
China recycles so much steel now that a lot of steel producers are seeing a big decline
pearl tangle
yep something like 30% on a lot of stuff which is actually a big driver to use it for companies that have an eco policy in place
wintry escarp
nah there is another daydreamvr phone, from moto I htink
wintry escarp
i don't think iPhone has any official vr system yet
pearl tangle
its for daydream devices only
its just a headset so you could use it with whatever phone you want
you just wont be able to use the controller with it
you can run google cardboard on the iphone
wintry escarp
you can?
mighty carbon
yeah, but it will be horrible experience
pearl tangle
daydream view doesn't have anything in it like gear vr does. its purely a headset
wintry escarp
7+ is FHD, that's ok
pearl tangle
https://itunes.apple.com/sg/app/johnnie-walker-blue-label-vr/id1140707795?mt=8 i built this using the daydream API. runs quite well on iphone actually although there are some bugs still but haven't officially launched it yet
wintry escarp
but daydream spec requires the phone to have the fast sensors doesn't it
pearl tangle
yeah but daydream api you can configure to fallback to google cardboard if the phone doesn't support daydream
mighty carbon
that app runs sooo badly on Galaxy S6 😦
pearl tangle
yep because i enforced higher anti aliasing for the text which works fine on s7 but s6 cant handle it and there is no way for me to define 1 step below s7 to have different quality levels
wintry escarp
yeah i saw that, runs smooth on my ipod....runs like shit on an s7
mighty carbon
I see
pearl tangle
runs perfectly smooth on all the s7's we have used
wintry escarp
tried an exynos one?
pearl tangle
yep we have the 8890 processors in the singapore 1s apparently
wintry escarp
i tried it on an edge and movement had that 10fps look
pearl tangle
weird haven't had that issue with s7 at all. definitely with the s6 yeah
still haven't officially launched it yet though, have to push out the other updates which will be the vulkan build and better optimizations so should fix that
wintry escarp
that's why i hope nougat lets you force a screen res
ipod was lovely and smooth, but low res
pearl tangle
yeah i had to enforce screen res because its a bug with the android build stuff for cardboard
i built using the 4.13 preview just as it was put in there so it might be fixed in proper 4.13
we had been focussing on the 360 video version at the moment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EqtlEFl31o
mighty carbon
why not on Vimeo ?!
Can't watch YouTube in Gear VR
although 4k will be overkill for Gear VR
pearl tangle
because vimeo doesn't play 360 video or have google cardboard mode?
nah 4k is bare minimum
mighty carbon
it does
pearl tangle
youtube compression turns everything to shit below 4k
wintry escarp
when apple get their heads out of their asses and do their vr i will probably go back to ios
mighty carbon
at least it should as it's in Gear VR
pearl tangle
apple most likely will go AR not VR
doesn't the vimeo app just play in a virtual cinema, not 360?
mighty carbon
hmm.. maybe
what about Oculus Video ?
You can even make 360 deg. stereo video and upload it somewhere
pearl tangle
yeah if you upload it to their store
still really annoying to get the stuff on to gear vr. would be great if the new youtube vr app launched on there as well but dont see that happening any time soon
mighty carbon
pearl tangle
we would have to provide a download link for the video to get it to people on Gear VR so they can play it
and the video is 3.5gb for the lower quality or 8gb for the max quality
not something anybody would ever download
mighty carbon
what about Facebook ?
pearl tangle
but we are giving it to client in different locations in that format so they can play on gear VR using Samsung VR player
then it just goes onto constant loop and we can sync multiple devices together
mighty carbon
I recall it has 360 videos and those can be viewed on Gear VR
pearl tangle
yeah it will get shared on facebook but don't think you can watch them in gear vr unless facebook has updated their stuff in gear vr
full junco
how can I fix the problem that when rotating the camera (not moving it) the screen size of meshes changes and LODs are switching? https://i.gyazo.com/833b1c7572940540bf3dbbbf86342699.gif
either the screen size needs to stay constant when rotating the camera (rotating the head), or the LODs need to be based on distance in world units and not on screen size
it looks very ugly in VR to constantly have LODs switching on the edge of the view, there has to be a simple solution to this
balmy creek
Quick question: If someone has a VR project using UE 4.7.6 and Oculus Rift SDK 0.5, can I open/edit the project if I don't have a Rift myself?
They just need some quick Blueprint work done.
balmy creek
Oh snap.
Ah. I see why people are cautious.
Third-party accessory, and pretty pricey.
Sounds amazing if it's stable, though.
dry fjord
@balmy creek you can just edit it and get them to test it
if you hit play UE will just go "no HMD, you can just sit there"
or you can make code to go into an FPS pawn or something if there's no HMD
balmy creek
OK. I was curious because it's going to be a job involving HMD input.
dry fjord
I usually test VR only projects in simulation mode
easier on the neck
oh
you have a vive now don't you?
balmy creek
Yes.
balmy creek
Did 4.7 even support the Vive, though?
balmy creek
No idea, but I'm in no position to ask.
dry fjord
needs to be upgraded as upgrades come out, at least limited to one version behind
balmy creek
Just a potential small job.
dry fjord
I would be quietly offering to help them upgrade a copy to see if it works
they want VR stuff, they gotta be up to date
balmy creek
I would think so, but... who knows?
Sounds like it's a research project.
They're using an old Oculus SDK, too, I think.
0.5
balmy creek
Nice and mysterious. 😄
spark stag
after 6 hours of driving, those eyes are pretty close to looking like mine
pallid echo
Sorry everyone, but @spark stag did not wake up and crashed while he was driving. Unfortuntety he died.
I blame @dry fjord for jinxing him.
spark stag
I want to die like my grandfather, in my sleep. Not like the passengers in his car
tawdry dragon
Anyone here with any experience running multiple Vives/Rifts in the same location?
tawdry dragon
the Vive or the Rift?
spark stag
vive
tawdry dragon
So as far as I can see is the pro/cons with the Vive is that you only need two base stations
spark stag
what's the con?
tawdry dragon
but it lacks expandabillity because you cant just throw more stations into the mix because of IR contamination
You need physical seperation between areas
spark stag
currently, only two are supported, but they are working on it being unlimited
I haven't tried the rift solution, and I know they claim you can have a many as you want, but I believe it isn't a simple as just adding more
I was told there were issues, but don't recall what they are
tawdry dragon
Yeah that was my worry too, also because having to setup the cameras and running the USB wires could be a huge issue
We're doing some early RND into a VR setup that is portable for conventions
for our client
Is there any time frame for the "Unlimited Base Stations" update?
dry fjord
two or more vives can share two base stations can't they?
tawdry dragon
yeah
dry fjord
and HTC are adding roomscale zone transition so you can go from one zone to another
you might want the wireless vive adaptor up above zpanzer
dry fjord
latency is a bit high on it. it would be amazing if the vive did ASW locally but that might be too much to hope for
ah
tawdry dragon
so we dont really have much time to hope for planned features and untested hardware 😃
We have to work with what hardware/features we got right now
dry fjord
you could always just teleport people back to the center of the play area if they reach the edge
then they THINK they're walking forever
tawdry dragon
Going outside the playable area is not much of a concern right now, its more that we have to pack 3-4 people into 5x5m(or whatever the max is for the Vive)
But the VR experience we are gonna do could be designed around not walking that much around
its more of "stay where you are and play with stuff" kinda thing. Like Job Simulator
dry fjord
neat
the game could be that someone gets a tablet with a button that makes the world swivel and you watch five people simultaneously fall over
call it mixed reality
tawdry dragon
haha
Or just randomly remove the floor to reveal you're standing 250m above the ground in manhattan 😄
dry fjord
being able to watch and terrorise VR players with monsters WOULD be quite good
hahaha
yes
tawdry dragon
Aka. Vomit Sim 2016
dry fjord
panic attacks for errbody!
tawdry dragon
I like the way you think 😄
dry fjord
if only the name Digital Homicide wasn't already taken
tawdry dragon
But in reality our VR app is gonna be a bit more dull 😛 It's an industrial client, so it will be more focused on e-learning
dry fjord
fair enough
tawdry dragon
One day I may get to do all the fun game stuff 😄
@spark stag thanks for the input btw, is it okay I save your username if I have any questions later on? 😃
dry fjord
@tawdry dragon on behalf of @spark stag I say yes!
zinc violet
dry fjord
15ms latency though
I think it'll suit slow-paced games much more
there's a tiny, tiny chance it could do onboard reprojection. I can't read the chinese product page though
wicked oak
really doubt it does
dry fjord
it's definitely not aimed at portable rigs, because they tend to not be able to fit within a 5ms budget
yeah me too
it's a shame because that IS what we need
and if mobile phones can do it, a dedicated piece of hardware could do it too
clever sky
20ms isn't actually a hard cap.
DK1 was 50ms or something
But you wouldn't want to go much over 20ms...
Wonder what the current Vive motion to photon is...
clever sky
Ok... so about 5-10ms of extra work on top of rendering.
So you're looking at around 25-30ms for this wireless stuff.
... Which puts it into the area of doesn't feel good for motion sickness sensitive users.
I think honestly that's probably ok for me.... the cable does suck badly.
hard light
I've tried a kit like this, and the latency was very noticeable
clever sky
Well, we're basing it off their claims. Which I assume they're dressing up.
hard light
the game would have to be particularly slow, otherwise you get a kind of 'swimming' effect when you move your head around
clever sky
Probably worthwhile been skeptical of their claims though.
Known tough challenge, unknown company from country with little advertising regulation.
hard light
I would be skeptical, wireless HDMI tends to have around 15ms of latency
also, they're Taiwanese, not Chinese
clever sky
Ah
hard light
so it's more second party than third party
clever sky
Is that battery pack removable?
hard light
yes
wicked oak
oculus needs to answer it
hard light
whether you can actually buy more batteries is another question, lol
clever sky
Ok. So not bad. Definetly worth keeping an eye out for.
hard light
I'm probably going to pick one up
clever sky
As far as reviews and what not goes.
hard light
for $220 or so, it's not bad
clever sky
Yeah, if it works it's a good deal.
hard light
I don't expect it will necessarily work very well, but it's still a neat toy to have
clever sky
Fair call.
hard light
(and buying into it will hopefully help fund further development, heh)
clever sky
Seems like its limited in quantity, so it'll sell out one way or another.
... at least it's not like the FOVE.
some crazy company going at it alone with another HMD
I want your tech FOVE. But I don't want your HMD.
hard light
yeah, I want to order one today, but I need to find someone who speaks Chinese to navigate the website for me xD
clever sky
Google translate no good?
hard light
not good enough, no
clever sky
Ah
hard light
also, to my knowledge, there is an eye-tracking version of the Vive on the way at some point
probably about a year out, I think
clever sky
Really? That'd be quite the game changer.
I wonder if ASW will make its way onto normal desktop applications.
hard light
ASW?
clever sky
Async Space Warp
hard light
ah gotcha
clever sky
It's basically a really good frame doubling algorithm.
hard light
probably not, it's not strictly necessary since there's less latency between update and display
but you never know
clever sky
and from what I understand of it, it doesn't need the motion component to work.
Otherwise, with all the tech VR is going to get for improving frame rate... we might end up with the odd situation where VR gets better graphics than desktop and runs faster.
ASW & foveated rendering specifically
hard light
VR will never overtake desktop because it is entirely reliant on desktop rendering hardware and techniques
it's the same deal with people who keep claiming that consoles and mobile devices are going to catch up and overtake xD
dry fjord
whatever you do in VR, you do half as much of it in desktop
ASW is quite rubbish btw
it feels nice until you really start moving around
then it's a bit worse than not having ASW
we just need to get to a point where the hardware can do the level of detail we want quickly enough
or at the least only use ASW on distant objects and have two parallel rendering processes
one for near, highly available, one for distant, using ASW
clever sky
@hard light Well, foveated rendering is a big deal if we can get it working as intended. I guess the better division would be foveated HMDs and everything else.
@dry fjord have you used ASW? It doesn't feel particularly bad to me. And certainly much better than not having ASW on.
dry fjord
of course
hard light
you can do foveated rendering on PC with an eye tracker too
dry fjord
maybe I was having a bad day with it but it was rotten
clever sky
The main thing I can tell is you see a bit of fringing around objects as you move your head around
Because its synthesizing data that doesn't really exist
dry fjord
I had much worse than that
it was like having double vision
every time I moved my head
clever sky
Hmmm. I'll have to do a more extensive test.
dry fjord
yeah I'll try it again too
clever sky
But I cranked the shit out of obduction
and put on ASW.
So I'll try cranking it down and having raw 90
vs forced ASW
I didn't realize you had a Rift?
@hard light True; but not many commercially available eye trackers for consumer desktop use.
And not much reason to have one right now given the complete lack of support from consumer/gaming applications.
Maybe that'll change with eye tracking HMDs
dry fjord
nah I mean the experimental ASW in the latest steamvr beta
I'm sure ASW on the rift is more polished
clever sky
That's not ASW
wicked oak
not the sme
wicked oak
ATW is rotational only
dry fjord
is it just doing rotation or something?
clever sky
time warpjust does yeah
wicked oak
its what the vive guys just added
hard light
@clever sky - they're more and more common now
dry fjord
useless
wicked oak
ASW does position too
dry fjord
yeah I know
wicked oak
and EVEN tries to guess the movement
dry fjord
why would they leave out positional?
hard light
some laptops have them built in, and soon displays are going to start having them built in too ^^
wicked oak
so even if you have a animating thing
clever sky
Because it's hard
clever sky
And the implementation is new 😛
clever sky
It's more intelligent than the interpolation though.
But basically next level interpolation
dry fjord
yeah, with normals and depth and motion vectors for hinting
dry fjord
it's just a slightly different kind of motion blur to fill in occluded pixels
clever sky
Well... without the loss of image resolution you get from motion blurring 😛
wicked oak
just so you see how good ASW can be
one of my 2 maps on the demo build
its absolutely ridiculous
and doesnt run at 90 fps
clever sky
Probably the worst things about ASW is when you teleport
wicked oak
so it drops to 45 by looking to one side of the map
nope
my game is teleporting around
dry fjord
the only difference between those two is on the left one motion blur is more pronounced due to the lower framerate
wicked oak
antidamage, both are at the same framerate
clever sky
or blink teleport
wicked oak
Obduction has that
dry fjord
not in the HMD they're not
clever sky
Yeah. I can see the teleportation and turning artifacts in obduction.
dry fjord
I imagine the first thing you do with ASW is get rid of motion blur
wicked oak
im playing obduction at 45 fps
dry fjord
it'll never be right
wicked oak
becouse being a slow game, i can just do ASW and its fine
clever sky
Beacuse it's combining two different frames.
wicked oak
thtas what you see in the gif
wich is exactly how it looks on the vive
and how it looked on the oculus
dry fjord
which is why I'm not using it
wicked oak
but now spacewarp black magic comes
wicked oak
its due to the not-roomscale
dry fjord
it's still not black magic though
clever sky
Ah yeah
dry fjord
your occluded pixels just reach out along the motion vector and sample from there
clever sky
Because you're mostly rotating in DK2
dry fjord
yeah good point
clever sky
Also because Vive has motion controllers which also don't work well with ATW
dry fjord
I wonder how that'll be with the touch?
clever sky
ATW? Not great.
clever sky
Fair enough
wicked oak
Vive implementation locked you to 45 fps
dry fjord
yep, like I said, vive need to step it up
wicked oak
Oculus was from 90 to around 30
dry fjord
even if it's just a stopgap for this generation
clever sky
The old ATW videos I saw basically made it look like you were getting low frame rate animation in the world, even though tracking (rotationally) was ok!
wicked oak
andd Vive with a oculus style ATW
yup, thats exactly what they do
on my game, you could drop to 70 without realizing
it was only when you started going below 60 where it starts to get juddery
so vive just dropping to 45....
at least they changed that
now oculus drops to 45
no more smooth scaling
but that 45 is really high quality 45
clever sky
It's not 45. It's 45(90)
Like I said... basically frame doubling.
Probably as good as this sort of technique can get.
clever sky
Ah true.
wicked oak
so it works pretty much the same as Vive reprojection
clever sky
Well, just gotta make sure you do frame rate independent code.
It's not that hard is it? Just divide by delta time...
wicked oak
not doing that on ue4 is a absolute crime
when you get your smoothed delta time andd physics substeps
clever sky
Japanese devs will have to get used to it 😛
They love to do frame rate based coding for some reason.
dry fjord
consoles
clever sky
Is there a pro to doing things that way that I'm unaware of?
dry fjord
kind of
start with street fighter II
there was specific logic per frame of animation relating directly to combat
clever sky
Slow downs look more dramatic?
dry fjord
its how you occasionally have bugs where a single frame makes you invincible, or super weak
wicked oak
well, in a fighter
clever sky
Ah.... ok?
wicked oak
makes sense to lock the frame
dry fjord
so nobody thinks that's a good idea now, but it's how fighting games are built and it's how pro players play
wicked oak
becouse you need very tight timings for attacks and that
dry fjord
with this absolutely certainty and reliability that if they tune their moves enough they will always do the right thing
down to the frame
dry fjord
if there was delta time between frame ticks it'd all be over
dry fjord
that's why in SFIV and SFV you can switch to a fixed frame mode
clever sky
Because delta time is sloppy?
dry fjord
that's exactly right
clever sky
Fair enough.
wicked oak
its not nearly as repeteable
dry fjord
the best players learn when an attack becomes active or a defence becomes inactive
humans are amazing
wicked oak
on locked framerate(even if you use delta time, but 100% locked framerate)
wicked oak
the same imputs get the same outputsw
allways
for combos and the like
but if you have delta time
dry fjord
so that persisted until even now
wicked oak
and your hit does a particle explosion wich ddrops at 45 fps
you just messed up the whole combo chain
dry fjord
yup
clever sky
Because instead of 3 frames to link this combo you get ???
wicked oak
and they come from the arcade mahchines
clever sky
Fair enough.
wicked oak
where they were 2d
and frame locked
so on 3d,the same thing
you also have racing games
clever sky
Game development has been down a crazy road.
wicked oak
where perfect physics simulation has to be at a framerate
becouse deltatime on complex physics can go wrong really fast
clever sky
Fuckin' amazing what the early guys did.
wicked oak
yes, they could decouple physics from rendering
but nah
for amazing, check Elite
the super incredible old Elite
it ran ina damn cassete
less memory than a email
clever sky
Yeah, that was before my time, so couldn't fully appreciate its technical marvel.
wicked oak
not even 1 page of text
clever sky
But I did get into Frontier big time.
wicked oak
and it had a full game with 256 planets and stuff
dry fjord
clever sky
mother fucker stuck a galaxy in 100kb of code.
dry fjord
this guy is a god amongst mortals
clever sky
Yeah. That's a very famous clip 😃
wicked oak
i aint even mad
wicked oak
in newer street fighter
there is a challenge
that is repeating that
against an AI
pearl tangle
so how is everybodies mandarin?
wicked oak
and its really fucking hard
pearl tangle
wicked oak
discussion a bit above
what people need to do with AI, its to actually have variable framerates for stuff
calculate gameplay at 60 fps, graphics as much as possible, and physics at 60
for example
clever sky
@pearl tangle Not good. D:
wicked oak
ue4 can already do physics substepping if your delta time is big
dry fjord
AI and physics just needs to move to the GPU
wicked oak
to allow all the physics inm the game to explode
game AI cant work on gpu
at all
unless yo talking about pathfinding and traces
dry fjord
you can run massively parallel simple AI on it
wicked oak
pathfinding and traces go good on gpu
dry fjord
yeah pathfinding and traces
dry fjord
obv not general AI 😉
wicked oak
normal AI is precisely a shit ton of if this then that
dry fjord
mind you
wicked oak
or state machines
clever sky
'general AI' as in if then code?
dry fjord
we do a lot on the GPU at work and AI is one of those things
wicked oak
those are so bad on gpu
dry fjord
we haven't had cause to do much with it though
clever sky
Because 'real AI' loves massive parallelism.
dry fjord
I'm fairly certain the UE crowd stuff runs on the GPU
wicked oak
your run of the mill game ai
dry fjord
the limitation with GPU stuff is the amount of data you need to do proper AI
wicked oak
kind of yes
clever sky
If these states, then you do this.
dry fjord
plus it's a complete redesign
wicked oak
yeah, most game ais are state machines
the behavior tree?
a fancy state machine
goal oriented tree
yet another state machine
dry fjord
you can definitely offload certain tasks though
wicked oak
and even state machines end up being if this then that
sure
traces and pathfinding
best if sent in bulk
sending stuff to gpu has a cost
you better give it work to do
for small stuff its best to do it on the cpu and you end faster
than having to deal with the gpgpu overhead
dry fjord
I'd segregate out more complex things, like you could run a bit of neural net stuff on it
wicked oak
this is a perfect case for integrated gpu
clever sky
Interesting stuff. If we used APUs instead of CPUs...
dry fjord
throw it at the GPU in packages
wicked oak
after all, it uses the same memory and cache as the normal cpu
dry fjord
use the result if it's there
clever sky
Yeah, looks like we're thinking along the same lines.
wicked oak
but nah
dry fjord
they share memory but that memory is still bus limited isn't it?
wicked oak
i think that is probably the future of CPUs
dry fjord
and integrated GPUs are not known for fast fill rates
wicked oak
more integration beetween the gpu and the cpu cores
dry fjord
it'd be nice
clever sky
But you'd still have DGPUs on top of your APUs?
wicked oak
thats more or less what the ps3 is
clever sky
APU is the name of integrated CPU/GPU right?
wicked oak
the ps3 Cell code is a normal powerPC processor
dry fjord
yeah
clever sky
Or is that an AMD thing?
wicked oak
with a bunch of extra offload cores
dry fjord
it was a cunt to develop for too
dry fjord
no idea zap
clever sky
Ok 😃
wicked oak
the SPUs were kind of like more cpu like gpu
they were like small cpu cores
but with a huge vector width
dry fjord
yup
wicked oak
so if you had vector math
those can offer a serious improvement
you are doing stuff with lots of vectors? to the SPU
and there were 7 of them if im not mistaken
dry fjord
just like FPUs were eventually integrated into all CPUs, so will CPUs move towards more parallelism using GPU techniques
wicked oak
so LOTS of vector processing power
yeah
im waiting for that
better integration beetween the CPU cores and the integrated GPU
dry fjord
it's inevitable because we're about to hit the micron process limit
clever sky
Hmmmmm. So then we can start to get reliable physics integration in game engines?
dry fjord
other technologies are 20 years off
wicked oak
so launching a GPU kernel has as much overhead as launching a CPU thread
that way if you are just doing ~20 traces
to the integrated it goes
or pathfinding on 10 units
clever sky
20 years of slow CPU growth.
clever sky
We're stuffed D:
wicked oak
wich are system on chip
dry fjord
I think smart game design will play as big a part as hardware advances in the next ten years
dry fjord
who was talking about neural nets with me today? was it you vblanco?
dry fjord
indexed computer-backfilled behaviours are just the smart way to go
clever sky
indexed computer backill? That sounds awesome...
wicked oak
massive improvement and profit
clever sky
but I don't understand what that means!
wicked oak
they are rolling in the $$$$
dry fjord
you could do such a better job of pathfinding in believable ways in maps if the computer had a chance to pre-train a NN or it could be done in the cloud