absolutely
#virtual-reality
fresh laurel
Some one was working on it that is what he said
pallid echo
lmao ^
winged shale
@clever sky looks really fun! Looking forward to it when it comes out
Also yeah it's basically ender's game
winged shale
Hehe. If you liked EG you should read Red Rising
clever sky
Isn't that a cold-war submarine story?
winged shale
No wrong story
clever sky
Hehe ๐ I know. I was trying to make a funny.
Talking about popular fiction... what did you guys think of Ready Player One?
big fans like Abrash, or thought it was a bad book full of rote nostalgic references ๐
winged shale
Haven't read it yet, got too sucked into fantasy again
One friend keeps nagging me to read it though. From what I've read about it I'd choose the latter
fresh laurel
dry fjord
that'd be quite neat
pearl tangle
oh yeah i backed them for 2 headsets on kickstarter but then they gave out refunds when they were launching without lighthouse tracking
and now they wont ship it to Singapore like everybody else...awesome
clever sky
Man, I just can't wrap my head around world and local translations.
full junco
well you can let UE4 handle those and let your head think about different stuff
clever sky
So I've decided to say F-U local translations. World translation all the way!
Nah... I just keep mixing them to unexpected results.
Why is my menu disappearing? Why is my climbing so wonky?? I don't understandddd!!! (few days later) Ooooh... this local rotation is screwing everything up! (normally works because I'm not testing turning AND those things at the same time).
On the other hand, solving bugs that have been plaguing you for days is a nice headrush.
full junco
yeah
I heard SteamVR now supports ATW and it's good?
but only on Nvidia, so I can't test it ๐
clever sky
I wouldn't know. It breaks the UE output log
just spams it on every tick even when not running the project
full junco
what?
clever sky
Installing the SteamVR beta and turning on ATW
will cause log-spam in the Unreal editor.
full junco
so its triggering some warning, since your ue4 version wasn't built with that new stuff in mind?
clever sky
Probably. I'm not running a custom version of UE4. Just the latest stable release 4.13.2
full junco
yeah thats really old
clever sky
D: it's the latest stable release!
full junco
well, it was branched end of July, so it's really old
full junco
what I don't get is, why do they basically have to work with nvidia and amd to make ATW work on SteamVR? amd and nvidia had to support ATW since a long time for oculus, so shouldn't the support be in there for a long time?
clever sky
I think Valve finally back tracked on their initial stance
which was - force developers to make games gud.
full junco
yeah but I asked about the graphics drivers ๐
clever sky
Maybe different implementations
Side note... after playing Obduction, I can clearly see ASW artifacts.
it's... an acceptable trade off!
full junco
sounds strange to me that nvidia and amd would each have two different paths for ATW, one for oculus and one for steamvr
clever sky
Appears mainly as artifacty shimmering around the borders of objects as you move your head around them.
full junco
ok, but its acceptable?
clever sky
For frame rate consistency, yes, yes it is.
Also, running the settings much higher than I'd be able to do otherwise.
full junco
ok, now valve just has to impelement that too...
clever sky
Yep
full junco
and then i'm also still waiting for steamvr vulkan support
clever sky
And then get some eye tracking and foveated rendering
and VR will enter its glorious graphical golden age
full junco
and if steamvr has ASW and vulkan support it will surely not work together at first, so another thing to wait for, make ASW work with vulkan...
and then I would be happy ๐
clever sky
Then realize after all that, it'll take millions to make a game graphically stand out on VR.
Doh.
full junco
doesn't need to stand out, just look awesome
it would be a lot easier for me if I would not have to care about draw calls (vulkan) or stable 90 fps (ASW)
hard light
hehe, which demo / game was that?
wicked oak
Vulkan VR is underway
nvidia has a article on that
to interface Vulkan from DX/Opengl
These extensions enable developers to create applications which import Vulkan memory from another processes, as well as import memory from Direct3D images into Vulkan.
basically, you would render the game with Vulkan, and then send the texture to DX and then to Oculus/Steam VR Api
clever sky
@hard light Stuff I'm working on now ๐
@wicked oak You think it'll take us much work to use with Unreal?
wicked oak
i doubt epic will implement that
like 99% they wont
its a platform exclusive extension
but there is nvidia VRWorks branch
maybe they implement it there
wicked oak
i could really use some improvement on drawcalls
clever sky
Can't have Nvidia been all competitionless.
wicked oak
on VR and laptops they have won
almost all the ue4 VR games are using the VRworks branch
dat multires
amd has also their sdk, but almost no one cares
very good move on nvidia part to do the VRWorks branch
clever sky
If AMD did a VRworks branch, you think the community would just integrate them together?
Or if that's even possible?
wicked oak
people see the 30-40% performance increase in raw data due to multires, and they remember that
when it also works on pool nation
i think that if AMD does it too
Epic will try to integrate them both
wicked oak
but im not sure how will they like to have Amd and Nvidia implementations of the same thing in the engine
branching code path depending on gpu
clever sky
If AMD/NVidia do VRWorks and Epic integrates them... Unreal becomes the go to VR engine.
That's worth the effort I'd say.
wicked oak
that, plus theforward renderer
clever sky
Yep
mighty carbon
Is Vulkan VR for PC only for now or is it for mobile too ?
cobalt relic
I don't think Epic ever want to have branching code in the en gine depending on the platform
They certainly have some already, but they've talked in the apst about how they hate that
If both AMD and nVidia have a competing tech, what will happen is that Epic will ignore both
What needs to happen is for those Vulkan projects to become portable extensions not tied to a maker
Just like SSE ended up being adopted by AMD after Intel introduced it
mighty carbon
Vulkan works on Android already, just not with VR
wintry escarp
anyone here tried a new 2016 gearvr yet?
mighty carbon
someone did.. plenty reviews online
mighty carbon
the verdict in short - it's better than 2015
wintry escarp
still not sure if the usb port lets you deploy to the phone while its in the new gearvr
winged shale
@cobalt relic exactly what I've been saying for months
winged shale
oh yeah @clever sky I started a blog: www.acebananz.com/blog
never done this kind of crap before so let me know if it's terrible
clever sky
Nice.
spring pond
wouldn't vulkan happen at the oculus/steamvr level at somepoint?
like you would just request some vulkan surface from the SDK and then they can draw to it how they please
clever sky
@winged shale Feels a bit text walley. Try shrinking the text width and split more paragraphs. Haven't read a single word yet.
mighty carbon
@wintry escarp I bet you can't.
winged shale
@clever sky good idea
clever sky
@winged shale Loving the ideas in there. Description is a bit dry though.
winged shale
I agree
Working on the template now, want to embrace the golden ratio for some of the sizes
clever sky
Gonna rewrite a paragraph as example...
winged shale
also I'm a bit dry ๐
clever sky
Although I wouldn't say my writing is particularly great! ๐
spring pond
you reminded me that I'm late on writing a blog post for work ๐ฆ
clever sky
"Iron Rain is essentially what Iโve always wanted from space games - taping into an imagined dream that many of us must have held from our own experiences playing and immersing ourselves in the multitude of space video games and media across the decades.
The game revolves around lovingly designing, constructing, managing space ships, then proving their mettle by taking them into the fray of battle, fighting for money, glory and salvage. The main point of difference in this game to others that have taken a similar bent is that you embody the captain of a small industrious ship. You work alongside your crew to build, repair, upgrade the ship. You fight by their side once the action kicks in, ordering them to engage the enemy, and if they make their way onboard as a landing party, you fight by their side to repel them with the shipboard weapons.
Even as you navigate through space in your ship, you navigate through your own ship by pulling yourself in a zero-g environment. This isn't a space station that can afford the luxuries of large spinning modules to generate artificial gravity. This is a space ship - your space ship - and you need to do what you can to make it the best damn one you can.
To that end, as you explore and fight your way through the galaxy, you'll gain salvage, materials and even rare modules with which to upgrade your vessel. None of this stuff is driven by a point and click interface - you need to make it happen by putting it all together!"
Something like that. Gotta sell it! ๐
winged shale
Nice, I'll take inspiration from that and try to find a happy medium between academic discord and sales team pitch
clever sky
Hehe ๐
winged shale
thanks for putting time into that, it's all great feedback.
mighty carbon
clever sky
No worries. Looking forward to seeing what you make
mighty carbon
bunch of bullshit
"no matter what we say, the grid and pixels which are apparent after some time, does not really give the feeling of reality." that person clearly haven't used VR
snow raft
just take a breath ๐
mighty carbon
I no longer notice SDE when using Gear VR
clever sky
That's a crap article. Click bait title and... basically not much of an argument as to why VR will fail - just stuff to point out that there are challenges ahead.
wicked oak
but everyone knows VR is just fancy 3d TV !!
wicked oak
last time i saw PSVR its selling quite well
snow raft
and the first reply came before I got past the first paragraph
wicked oak
my skim reading over multiple passes has been honed from years of internet reading
clever sky
It's called skimming! A useful technique for determining if one should spend more time on further perusing written material
wicked oak
yup, exactly that
mighty carbon
"We will look at how we can avoid VR Failure in the next post" no doubt (s)he is a renowned specialist in the field ๐
snow raft
dont complain about the lack of depth in the content if you have no depth as a reader ๐
clever sky
Ha. I consume many many many words every day.
wicked oak
its kind of clickbait
snow raft
Im just passing on information, up to you what you do with it
clever sky
So I have to know when to stop reading crap ๐
mighty carbon
just sad that people make articles like that
instead of putting positive spin on VR (while acknowledging challenges), they put negative spin
snow raft
its not that negative actually
you guys jumped to conclusions based on the headline ๐
clever sky
Nah. I just called the title clickbait and said that the content didn't appropriately argue for the title's thesis.
snow raft
dont cherry pick
Virtual Reality Will Failโฆ Once Again..!
that is the headline
not the content of the article
"Donโt start bashing me as yet for calling VR Failure."
first sentence
clever sky
Did you write this? ๐
snow raft
no but Im actually reading it
mighty carbon
sounds like he was dictating text
snow raft
so shut up and read triggered ones
clever sky
hahaha ๐ I don't think you know who's actually triggered here
snow raft
"VR and Problems it solve"
look at one of the paragraph headlines
thats positive
and bad grammar ๐
clever sky
And if we're to be real - VR won't fail. The worst that will happen is that it'll have a muted growth trajectory and take 15 years instead of 5 years to become the dominant computing paradigm.
By VR I mean MR.
Because VR will be part and parcel of MR
snow raft
Well one example I can give straight up is Apple not banking on VR and pointing towards AR which MS is also
so we need to keep an open mind obviously, Im not ready to commit to anything yet
snow raft
yes but the reality in VR isnt quite there is it
clever sky
AR is even further from been 'there'.
wicked oak
the problem is price
its the whole thing
its just WAY too damn expensive
people love it
but when they hear its 900euros + beefy pc they go like "probably not"
even the 400 dollas of PSVR can be a bunch of money for people
snow raft
photogrammetry will get better no doubt so will 3d printing etc but I think all of these systems will grow together and form some sort of new ecosystem
clever sky
I hate that people act like VR is 'sooo expensive'. That sort of dialogue shapes perceptions.
Considering the sort of functionality you're getting, it's pretty damn awesome.
Consider how many people happily pay for higher end GPUs and monitors that are similarly priced.
snow raft
I honestly cant use VR atm because of a back injury, moving my neck is good but putting pressure on my neck as in the weight of the headset is bad
clever sky
And historically how that compares to high end tech products, it's very reasonable!
wicked oak
it also needs a beefy PC
snow raft
mind you I was having trouble sitting at a PC too but phones are still most accessible
wicked oak
wich few people have
so its more or less 2000 euros
unless you really know what you are doing when buying the pc
mighty carbon
price is only relevant right now because there is no killer metaverse experience
snow raft
Sony tried that with PS3 didnt they ๐
wicked oak
a ultra TV is very logical for a lot of people
clever sky
Well, if you only use the PC for VR, then yeah, that might be an accurate cost. But most people will use the PC for everything that a beefy PC can do.
wicked oak
they last years, they are seen by the whole family at once, lots of hours
and, they are also bragging rights
VR is still seen as a very, veeeeery geeky thing
clever sky
The real problem of VR is that you can't really convey it properly without getting people to try it first hand.
mighty carbon
In US, a working person can pay for VR system, if there is a compelling reason to get it. Right now, there is none. Even with all new games coming for Rift.
wicked oak
yeah, but even when they try it, and they love it
clever sky
And also very simply, a relative lack of content.
wicked oak
they still think its way too expensive
mighty carbon
school kids, maybe
wicked oak
this kind of comes from Vive, too
clever sky
So it's not seen as a must-buy, even though it's super cool.
wicked oak
Im pretty sure that if Vive wouldnt have been released, we wouldnt have oculus CV1 yet
clever sky
With sufficient content, stuff that you can only do with VR... it forces peoples hands.
wicked oak
and oculus would be actually preparing a release of a cheap one with the hand controllers included
(pure speculation)
clever sky
Like mobile phones - even though plenty of cheaper phones available, premium phones still make up most of the revenue
wicked oak
vive-oculus rivalry made both work faster
mighty carbon
working adults, I doubt that they do - $1300 is not a huge investment, if returns are great. Hell, people buy $5000 bikes, ride it a few times and leave it to collect dust.
snow raft
yeah but you cant ride a bike in VR ๐ฎ
wicked oak
you says you cant?
mighty carbon
you can do better than ride a bike in VR ๐
clever sky
Pretty much motorsep. Like... it's cheap shit compared to the sort of experiences you're getting out of it!
snow raft
okay you make me a bicycle VR app and I'll buy a VR headset just for it
wicked oak
premium phones are bought due to how they come packaged
clever sky
I don't know how the bike app will make the headset weigh any less for you mons
wicked oak
people are paying it with their monthly telephone payments
so they dont realize as much
mighty carbon
let's face it - if a person doesn't see value of VR, they will find reasons not to buy it
looking at you, @snow raft
๐
wicked oak
right now VR can be compared to a extremelly fancy gaming machine
becouse its all it does at the moment
snow raft
it wont @clever sky but I'll wait till Im healed plus @wicked oak doesnt have the app in his back pocket
I have GearVR so shrugs
clever sky
Pretty much. But it's easier to see value in VR if it's got sufficient content, it's sufficiently light and everyone else is using it.
wicked oak
GearVR has sold lots
clever sky
And that time will come.
snow raft
go find another sucker to use that line on
wicked oak
and its quite nice
mighty carbon
if they manage to pair VR with existing things, like stationary bikes, etc. it would add even more value
snow raft
like exercise bikes
clever sky
Probably around the same time that we stop calling it VR and call it MR (because AR and VR have merged by that point)
wicked oak
ive heard of indie devs doing cardboard/gearvr apps who get more than 200.000 downloads
thats actually more than Vives sold (depending on where you ask)
snow raft
they actually already do that at gyms you can watch TV while you ride ๐
clever sky
VR pokemon would be pretty baller too.
snow raft
how about VR something that isnt just a copy of something else ๐ฎ
wicked oak
everything is a copy of something else
snow raft
so what did VR copy?
wicked oak
mobile telephone screen tech
clever sky
Everything humans create is a copy of something else that someone else has made plus a new twist.
wicked oak
older headsets with shitty screens
clever sky
And frequently even without the new twist!
wicked oak
some kind of hmd style stuff to see photograph back a hundred years ago
snow raft
which came first the internet or VR ๐
wicked oak
depends on what you call VR
clever sky
Sword of damocles came first.
snow raft
its been in popular cyberpunk for awhile now
what do you think of the morality of plugging people into machines to improve the VR experience?
snow raft
so you dont mind if people have computers in their brains with Google or MS OS' for eg?
clever sky
Their choice.
mighty carbon
I don't believe AR will be the thing any time soon
snow raft
yeah obviously their choice but who's going to put it in there
mighty carbon
(due to quality of the image, color gamut and FOV)
clever sky
Die-hard VR users.
snow raft
obviously there are prosthetics which already do similar
clever sky
Which by the time that sort of tech is around... will be a reasonable percentage of people.
mighty carbon
Give me VR Matrix and I will go get a loan to get Rift right now! ๐
clever sky
Gotta think about the future landscape - would you jack in, if it meant you had full sensory experience of the metaverse?
wicked oak
yes
snow raft
I honestly dont see being able to solve the issue of smell, touch etc without being plugged in, its just much simpler and the whole seated vs standing debate disappears
clever sky
I think it'd be a much more tempting proposition then the idea of 'jacking in' now.
wicked oak
"true" matrix style vr would end humanity as we know of it
clever sky
On the other hand, I'd still expect a lot of people to not jack in.
And continue using HMDs and similar devices.
mighty carbon
smell?! I don't want to smell anything if I am playing DOOM in VR ๐
snow raft
well the way we function as society jacking in now would probably get your brain spammed to death ๐
clever sky
Also, you can't rule out non-invasive brain interface technologies.
snow raft
Trump and Kim Kardashians arse flying by at immense rate as you drop into psychosis
clever sky
Even though they seem rather physically improbable to us now. I mean recently they developed magnets that could selectively target 3D points (multiple magnetic fields intersecting in a 3D volume.
snow raft
yeah thats true they could do it non-invasively but its still abit of a morale question of if we should subject our minds to untested tech
cuz there will always be the test set
clever sky
It's not a moral question! Unless your version of morality is all about preventing humans from augmenting themselves
snow raft
why arnt they doing it already then?
clever sky
Because the tech isn't there!
snow raft
if there is no issue why cant I go in and get a wifi implant
wicked oak
if they can access the brain enough for true vr, they can probably override the brain itslef
clever sky
We don't have the capability to do that sort of thing yet.
snow raft
why do I need to buy a phone instead
wicked oak
and thats super scary
clever sky
Well you obviously wouldn't use it, and as a result, that tech pathway would be a non-starter - if you didn't have sufficient safeguards against that sort of thing.
snow raft
the tech is there, there are eye implants and brain implants and have been for decades but they only do it on people who need it to bring them back from injuries etc
clever sky
@snow raft Those haven't been around for decades, and their functionality is very poor currently.
snow raft
if they can fix vision with electronics why do people wear non-invasive glasses or contacts instead. Well okay maybe those are cheaper ๐
but still why dont rich people get those instead of fake boobs
clever sky
Because you get a very limited resolution with bionics.
It's not an improvement for a functioning eye. It's an improvement for no eye.
snow raft
you used to get limited resolution with VR too ๐
clever sky
Yes. Over time the technology will improve. We're simply not there yet.
snow raft
in less than 5 yrs look how far its come because its had money put into it
if we put that money into bionics it could come just as far
wicked oak
next VR headsets will probably be 4kx4k res, and wireless
clever sky
Anyway, I'm done here. it's late and I'm going to let the other guys answer your assertions if they feel like it ๐
wicked oak
i wonder if cheaper or not
snow raft
and a bit of trivia from 2000 onwards more advancements have actually been made in biology than computers
wicked oak
but i need wireless headsets in my life
oh, we got really cool stuff on the genetics department
its very probable that we are going to be able to edit human dna, while the human is still alive
i wonder how much till china does space marines
or usa
snow raft
Im not going to deny computers aided in the biological advancements ๐
wicked oak
but we are nearing the end of moores law
only 2-3 more gens of processor till gates are literally a couple atoms thick
and that goes into quantum territory
snow raft
Ive just been in tech a long time and have seen interfaces and input options galore and none ever live up to the hype that cyberpunk built around being jacked in. Even a small bit of lag for your brain is nothing compared to the lag we experience now
for some reason we still cling to our primitive forms of communications and dont want to break away from the voice, the touch, etc
people keep telling me how amazing it is to watch a kid finger paint whether its on touch or VR but that kid may never be a picasso but if we jacked their mind in they could do like inception and build and entire world just through imagination
so I'll leave you with that thought ๐
mighty carbon
sci-fi territory ๐
snow raft
I think Stephen Hawking might disagree ๐
mighty carbon
we will clone human and cure many incurable diseases before we manage to plug into VR directly
correction - not only clone, but create from scratch
snow raft
mighty carbon
(they already can create reproductive material from scratch)
pretty primitive don't you think?
snow raft
yeah it is but thats because its got no money in it
this tech can be used with VR (clip is from 2008 too btw)
mighty carbon
(and costs a magnitude more than beefy PC + Rift + Touch + ffb vest + whatever else you can get nowadays for better VR)
snow raft
now if we want to talk about sci-fi Strange Days had a non-invasive version and I have seen plenty of prototypes but the money goes into projects like Siri or Cortana instead for whatever reason
cuz thoughts are quiet and can be used anywhere ๐
no screaming XBOX LISTEN TO ME
I think its genuine fear, that if we can invoke emotional response every time with a command say if I want to make something malicious you can do some real mental damage
some people cant handle PT let alone a fully immersive VR horror experience where you can smell the rotting corpses
mighty carbon
emotions is what makes us human
I would imagine a movie where people control things via thoughts would be quite boring
that's why when they do have that tech in movies, they still narrate character's thoughts
snow raft
yeah in Strange Days they record experiences and play them back
kinda like watching someones game stream I suppose
there are some pretty twisted narratives out there so I do consider I have some responsibility, that people shouldnt be dropping dead from playing my games
VR does break down a wall but I do think some viewers are trained to have that vice
hugs his VR game pillow
if youve seen my version of Half-life 2 my rendition of Gordon Freeman jumps around maniacally during the cutscenes trying to escape his prison
quite a different game from the TP ๐
Half-Vive 3
trust me, they got the gravity gun and portal gun in the next one using vive controls ๐
the Orange Box 3 is Valves propriatery console that runs Steam OS
Day Zero Patch 180GB
wintry escarp
has no-one replied in a long time or did you ask that before?
dry fjord
channel died a natural death
sturdy coral
@clever sky @dry fjord https://github.com/EpicGames/UnrealEngine/pull/2909
I think that will fix your issue with the chaperone bounds in packaged games
last trail
@wintry escarp I've got a GearVR 2016, u had questions about it?
dry fjord
there is a god
sturdy coral
you need to call GetBounds, check validity, then delay/retry until IsValid returns true
I noticed in a packaged build IsHMDEnabled started returning false for me as well until after a short period of time, so I bet it is related somehow while things are initializing
but basically before, if GetBounds got invalid bounds, it would forever cache them and always give you the invalid bounds from then on out
dry fjord
I think my attempt checks it every tick
because I am a bad developer
so is IsHMDEnabled fairly reliable now?
oh shit that makes sense
cool!
sturdy coral
no, I didn't touch that in my fix, but just started noticing it failing with 4.13
so I'm thinking it was related to the chaperone thing as well
when I first made the chaperone fix it was because if you start your game while your headset and controllers don't have tracking, it will get an invalid bounds
and then always return that the rest of the time the game runs
but this should hopefully fix the packaged problem as well
dry fjord
oh I seeee
neat!
I'm not much for building the engine but I'll try to find time to pull it and test it
sturdy coral
cool yeah, give it a shot and see if it does. If you have a checkout and your remote is updated you should be able to just do this to test it out: git cherry-pick -n d48b23ce1a0c7b104a8aa79264154b9c200b5fdd
I think it will merge cleanly with 4.12 and up, 4.11 had some other changes in the same area and did things a different way
(or 4.10, I can't remember)
dry fjord
I'll check out 4.13 and cherrypick it from there, thanks!
wintry escarp
Caulder: I was wondering if the usb port meant you could deploy to the phone without removing it from the 2016 gearvr
sly chasm
@mighty carbon I'm from San Antonio, if that counts
mighty carbon
@sly chasm ah, cool. Yeah, that counts more :)
sly chasm
what ya need?
mighty carbon
Just poking around for now
mighty carbon
No, I live in San Antonio
sly chasm
you guys know if the ouclus rift will support this motherboard's stuff? (mainly the usb slots/controllers)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157512
pallid echo
Will be fine.
I'm running the same chipset and socket, controllers shouldn't be an issue.
sly chasm
I mean
because I have an oculus
but it currently doesnt work with my motherboard
at least I think
dry fjord
that would be an odd situation
is it a USB limitation?
you could get a PCIe USB 3 controller
sly chasm
yeah, I think it has somehting to do with some motherboards having weird usb controllers
yeah
but might as well get a whole new one
dry fjord
fair enough
sly chasm
Ill link what I have in a second
pallid echo
Well if you really think its the motherboard, don't get ASRock
sly chasm
I dont want to break the bank though
sly chasm
is there one with 4 usb 3's?
pallid echo
There is plenty
sly chasm
and that socket?
pallid echo
Yes lol
pallid echo
For your price range (searching on only Newegg), this would be the next best: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA24G3RH4536
Willing to spend a bit more, I'd go with this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA6ZP3R88070
Anything else after that price range will just get you more USB and SATA ports.
sly chasm
alright
what makes the second one better?
why would you want 3 PCI express x1 slots?
pallid echo
Asus has better support.
pallid echo
Just in general. Customer, drivers, etc.
Better quality too
I've built a few ASRock based machines before. BIOS was horrible, drivers and utilities never maintained, just one issue after the next.
Asus and EVGA I've had zero issues with. MSI is about to join the list of "gives zero problems."
pallid echo
Just preference once there is a few good brands to choose from.
EVGA has cooler looking boards IMO compared to Asus and MSI hahaha
But Asus and MSI are usually a bit cheaper and give the same features.
sly chasm
There's one thing I dont understand about motherboards
does the "Intel H97" type of thing matter if the slot is the same (ex: LGA1150)
is the H97 backwards compatible?
because I'm pretty sure if there's a slot difference, than the cpu physically doesnt fit in the motherboard
because the ASRock has an "Intel H97" and the GIGABYTE has an "Intel H81"
sly chasm
nevermind
I got that figured out
do you guys think the i7-6700K is worth it?
or would an i7-4790K be good?
clever sky
What do you do?
sly chasm
thinking about getting into some vr gaming and development, not too hardcore tho
or
Does the 6700K do a whole lot more than the 4790K?
hard light
nope
sly chasm
alright then
the only reason I would get the 6700K is because there are better boards for it
or
more price efficient
hard light
the 4790k will actually outperform the 6700k on single threaded applications too, hehe
(6700k is better for multithreaded, however)
sly chasm
does UE utilize multithreaded tho?
hard light
yup
the 6700k also has the advantage of supporting faster memory
you can use DDR4-2133 with it
pallid echo
I have a 4770K and do VR gaming and development. Only time I have slow downs are when I'm compiling engine source.
hard light
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
wintry escarp
theres no consumer cpu yet worth upgrading my 4770k from
sly chasm
wait, what chipset is the 4790K?
pallid echo
1150 I do believe
sly chasm
er, I mean the socket
sly chasm
wait, wha
pallid echo
lol
sly chasm
o
pallid echo
So the chipset is Z87, Z97 or H97. The socket is 1150
wintry escarp
I'm z87
clever sky
MuchCharles is a pretty cool guy.
When he's not posting about Oculus stuff.
๐
@sturdy coral Thanks for the fix with the chaperone stuff!
mighty carbon
Z170 / 1151 is what you want to get to be future proof
sly chasm
would it be compatible with the 4770K?
mighty carbon
I am hoping to get 1151/Z170 mobo and Celeron (Skylake), then later upgrade to either i7 Skylake or i7 Kaby Lake
and if Oculus is still around by then, I'll get Rift/Touch ๐
sly chasm
I hope they make some more cpus for it first
clever sky
We were talking about neural interface VR last night.
Who'd jack in to visit the Westworld here?
mighty carbon
I
clever sky
Bunch of themed MMO worlds connected together by a metaverse style internet. That's a sweet future man.
mighty carbon
but I'd rather just use conventional VR and not wild west theme
clever sky
But that level of detail and AI reactivity (without the irksome 'they're kinda human' themes running throughout Westworld.
Where'd you spend most of your time? A mirrorworld (i.e. Google map style recreation of this world)?
clever sky
Cyberpunk future akin to Ghost in the Shell? ๐
mighty carbon
yeah, that's it
clever sky
Star Wars world. You know there's gonna be one.
clever sky
All the mainstream nerds there ๐
like a big crappy themepark!
I wanna see FFVII world. Still love that place ๐
mighty carbon
Some modified Star Wars, with gore and seriousness.. No JaJa Binks shit
M/R/AO rated world ๐
clever sky
I think that... FFVII probably still has one of the best game worlds ever.
I mean Midgar for starters.
mighty carbon
never played FF
clever sky
But then the rest of the world is super cool and varied too.
Ah. well. You missed out!
mighty carbon
not my thing ๐
clever sky
Yeah, that's fair enough.
mighty carbon
I mostly play FPS, non-modern combat (no CoD or Battlefield)
clever sky
So ARMA or DayZ?
mighty carbon
All idSoftware games (Raven up to Quake 4), Crysis series, new Wolfensteins
right
if there was a good single player zombie FPS, I'd play it
but not military shooters
clever sky
What about Day-Z?
mighty carbon
really wanted to play Killzone 3, but PS3 didn't have mouse + kb, so meh
clever sky
Oh Singleplayer
mighty carbon
Also played first Gears of War ๐
clever sky
Well. If they made Day-Z in single player VR, I'd play the shit out of that.
mighty carbon
there aren't any good singleplayer zombie FPS ๐ฆ Not even average singleplayer zombie FPS.
clever sky
Left 4 Dead not good enough for you?
mighty carbon
I guess since it's survival thing, people want to do it in MP, with real people as if it's Walking Dead ๐
it was okay'ish
it was more like wave shooter
clever sky
I'm not a fan of the zombie theme.
mighty carbon
(felt like that to me)
clever sky
They're ok. But the supersaturation of zombie stuff since that movie...
28 hours later
That's what kicked off this whole zombie thing.
Super tiresome now.
mighty carbon
Containment on Netflix is really good. Not zombies, but a virus. Intense. No one eats anyone either ๐
clever sky
But it's a survival horror most likely some zombies game
It depends on the game. Yes, it's gotten convoluted... but honestly the story is just excuse for the action.
mighty carbon
I don't really like games where you have pistol, 5 rounds, candle and that's it
clever sky
I think they're dialing it back for the VR experience
mighty carbon
no hatchets, no knives, no machetes around..
clever sky
Haha... Well, you're not supposed to be a super soldier!
mighty carbon
in the whole city you can't use anything as weapon...
well, I am not, but if that would happen in real life, you better believe it I'd find and make arms from whatever I could find
๐
those kind of games annoy me, because they artificially limit my abilities
I think in VR it's possible to make a scary game without artificially limiting player
clever sky
True that.
mighty carbon
just offer a few solutions involving physicality and wit, and let people get out of the situation
then it won't feel like devs artificially limited player and player can balance on the edge and escape "death"
oh, I remembered I also like Dishonored ๐
I don't think VR needs to be tried in order to be sold
when I saw Westworld previews, I was sold immediately on it. Imagine they would tell me I can actually wear VR and get that experience (of course all the visual lineup and experience would be shown as in VR to avoid misleading users) ?! Hell, I would be sold immediately.
(well, maybe because I already tried Cardboard and Gear VR)
I was actually sold on VR 50/50 before trying anything
then I wasted $20 on Cardboard and that got me to buy Gear VR ๐
and I think that at this point, they need to make so much software for Rift/Vive and milk it, until they move to second gen.
PC VR needs to become what consoles became - something a lot of people want because of the games on those systems
clever sky
PCVR needs to go beyond games
Although games will be a critical part of its success (like with mobile devices)
And thankfully, it is!
clever sky
Yeah, for the first gen or two, gamers will player a critical role
mighty carbon
I personally would keep playing same games I played if they added more quests, more depth, randomized old missions, etc.
that would cut dev costs down a lot
or had subscription like Netflix
clever sky
So you'd be one of the guys that stuck with Wow for a decade.
If you played WoW that is.
clever sky
Yeah, the point is, you're describing a game update model like WoW ๐ same game with new content for a decade.
mighty carbon
I am SP person as I don't have time to wait around for people to gather together for a raid
clever sky
Well... you could almost play it SP nowadays.
They've streamlined the shit out of everything
mighty carbon
plus none of my friends play games
clever sky
At the raid level, you just hit the find raid button and it matches you up with other people that press that button
mighty carbon
plus I hate grind
clever sky
As opposed to the old school days
mighty carbon
I abandoned Diablo 3 because of that
clever sky
Ho man. Stand in town and spam chat - the game.
mighty carbon
(and also killed my mouse playing it)
clever sky
Hahah
mighty carbon
that's why in VR I'd rather deal with AI and if I meet people along the way, that's cool
but I wouldn't want to be obligated to stick with them to accomplish something or to move ahead
pallid echo
@dry fjord That 108 error came back again for me ๐ข
dry fjord
@pallid echo aaaaahahahahah
sorry, this is the only way I can feel good about myself
the crab bucket
pallid echo
What's even more annoying is that SteamVR is deciding it wants to make me play games.
Keeps randomly starting a VR game.
clever sky
Hey BananaKing932.
Wanna play a game?
launches a game
Come ooonnnn~ play with meeee
pallid echo
Pretty much, lol.
clever sky
Tricky math thing
I'm getting a right vector from a component
Which if I understand gives me a world vector
But I want to rotate that right vector in local terms (rotate it by 35 degrees yaw).
But Rotatevector is applying it as a world rotation.
Any idea how to make it consistent?
wintry escarp
if youre looking for a good vr game idea, try a remake of amiga game sentinel
mighty carbon
lol, ok
grim condor
i cant beleive you linked to "sentinel", i have been looking at a VR version of this for months
takes me back to my amiga 1040st
also river raid, from the C64 days
AND raid over moscow....there are so many game sto remake
wintry escarp
you have a version of the sentinel? or thinking of making one?
grim condor
i have been building a random mesh genertor for the landscape based on the sentinel game, i am a bit of a UE4 noob, so it is a bit slow
mighty carbon
That positional tracking and motion controls system for Gear VR is coming in December and they are working on UE4 plugin
That's good news
mighty carbon
btw, I think one area where Oculus rules over Valve is their Audio SDK.
@wicked oak would that be a correct assumption ?
wicked oak
im not sure about that
i dont know about sound
but they do have the integrated headphones
wich are really great
no need to have other ones and put them on, its quite nice
i dont deal with any audio sdk, just the default unreal stuff, and badly done
my sound in my games is a disaster...
mighty carbon
well, you are missing out
audio is a huge part of VR
and all the goodness with HRTF, occlusions and early reflections adds soooo much to the experience
default UE4 audio doesn't have anything of what Oculus Audio SDK has
although I think you still need either Wwise or FMOD to take advantage of that (I am not sure about PC, but FMOD is a must at this time for Gear VR + Oculus Audio SDK)
wicked oak
the thing is that i dont have good audio to begin with
good sound samples for the FX
so adding fancy hrtf to badly recorded sounds taken from random places of the internet is not needed, as they are bad to begin with
im going to spend a chunk of money to hire a freelancer to do that stuff
mighty carbon
well, if you setup good system for audio now, then you'd only need to replace sounds and tweak settings a bit
with FMOD first commercial project is free
next is $500 per project
(flat fee)
void parrot
They should use AUD seeing as their Australian. Make at around $350 usd haha
clever sky
@wicked oak that's not true. HRTF plus bad audio is still better than bad audio and no HRTF. ๐
It's kinda like the difference between... having accurate positional sound of bad audio, and inaccurate distance based sounds of bad audio ๐
mighty carbon
I had mono sound on Gear VR until I figured out FMOD - that was big difference ๐
clever sky
Does it let you create sound from scratch?
mighty carbon
and then FMOD integration for UE4 loads them, and provides all that fancy functionality for VR and non-VR
I don't believe so
clever sky
So it's a snazzy mixer for games
mighty carbon
you need to have sound effects ready. Although you can alter them in FMOD Studio
clever sky
Dumb question... but how do people create sounds? Just record real world objects and then alter them digitally?
There's no like... midi/keyboard thing with preloaded sound bits where you kinda play it out like a small music piece?
mighty carbon
plus you can create various effect. Scatterer sound is my favorite (packs up a few sounds and allows randomly play them; useful for all kind of environmental sounds where you want want any repetitions)
well, you record some of the sounds naturally, then modify/mix them to make something else. Plus you can synthesize sounds using software and mix/mod with real life sounds.
clever sky
Fair enough. I can understand how that works conceptually now.
So when you contract with a sound guy to make sounds... are you all like... ok, I need to make this sound makes a poor facsimile sound with mouth
mighty carbon
no ๐
clever sky
That's kinda what I hoped the process would be like ๐
mighty carbon
I just get youtube vids or movies and tell them what kind of sounds I want
"like this one, but with these kind of accents"
clever sky
Haha. Fair enough.
I guess the direction of sound guys is as varied as the direction of concept artists.
wintry escarp
gearvr is getting touch controllers?
clever sky
Third party I think?
mighty carbon
yeah
but, it's based on Vive's Lighthouse tech ๐
and $100 for dev kits
and with UE4 support
so it's positional tracking + controllers
clever sky
Pretty cool... Wonder if it'll be a decent sized market to it
If so, will develop for it!
mighty carbon
that will depend on killer apps
market itself is big
business applications particularly (due to mobility factor)
clever sky
Well... gear VR has an install base of a few million casual users
But if you need lighthouses, how portable can it be?
mighty carbon
but as far as end-user market, it would need an app designed with motion controllers in mind
no one plays games outside their homes
portability is only important for people who watches movies
clever sky
But you just said
"market itself is big
business applications particularly (due to mobility factor)"
mighty carbon
for trade shows, business ventures and games, one can carry stations around
wintry escarp
is there a webpage?
clever sky
Yeah, that'll be handy for that market... I just don't know how big a market that is. It's not like everyone needs a VR headset to show off their stuff... and even if they did, how many users could that capture?
mighty carbon
clever sky
Ah so that's what that pic was. I skimmed past it and thought it was an old pic of a prototype vive
mighty carbon
I mean, if there is a good game that needs me to buy that setup, I'll go for it
clever sky
Do you have a Vive?
wintry escarp
ps4 touch style controllers?
mighty carbon
no one will ever be allowed to play games on public transportation or in public places where gaming involves swinging hands and walking around in HMD ๐ So people who say outside tracking is a bad idea have no clue what they are talking about.
no, I only have Gear VR
@wintry escarp no, Vive-style controllers
clever sky
AR HMD should be fine.
mighty carbon
AR is not coming for the next 5-10 years (good AR I mean, not gimmicky one like Hololens)
wintry escarp
you ordered one?
mighty carbon
plus, I still don't see people playing in public.. It's just plain dumb and intrusive to others.
(unless it's a theme park)
clever sky
Nah. People will get angry about all change. And then they'll get used to it.
I expect people using it will exercise some degree of sense.
mighty carbon
You aren't being serious, are you? ๐
clever sky
i.e. you can't be playing a full blown AR shooter while on the train
but you can do some browser/window based AR game
mighty carbon
If I am waiting for my plane and some fool swing around with controllers, you better believe it I will be pissed off and will do something about that ๐
or if you someone next to me swinging arms around on a train... hell no!
clever sky
I don't think controllers go too well with mobility.
It'd have to be hand tracked interface.
wintry escarp
the first I'm amaxed theres been no word of daydreamvr support for s7/edge phones
clever sky
I mean the biggest hurdle is where you gonna stuff those controllers?
wintry escarp
that was weird, it added 2 words at the start
clever sky
Unless they're small daydream sized ones
But day dream gets around the problem of having nerds swinging arms around...
by been only rotationally tracked
wintry escarp
so you cant actually stab someone with daydream controller? only swipe at them
clever sky
I assume the pointer will act like it's been held casually by your side in a bent arm
So... unless you're putting yourself in that 10-20cm area, you're not in much danger of been swiped! ๐
wintry escarp
hmmmm that wouldn't allow for the demos they showed
wintry escarp
some harry potter thing
clever sky
e.g. swiping a sword, you assume the user is holding their wrist straight
wintry escarp
has wand rotation and arm position
clever sky
meaning that rotation would occur from the distance of the elbow to the end of the hand
About 40cm
But if you're using a laser pointer menu, you'd treat it differently.
Because the headset itself doesn't have positional tracking.
So I can't imagine the tiny controller would either.
wintry escarp
Samsung bringing the s8 forward or will it be spring next year
mighty carbon
Feb 2017
hopefully they will announce it at that time
supposedly will be 3Ghz SoC, Snapdragon 830, 6-8Gb RAM, 4k screen (whole front surface will be screen), built-in AI
should be compatible form factor with 2016 Gear VR
wintry escarp
and they'll be skipping the blazing fireball option
mighty carbon
supposedly there was some even in China where Samsung execs got on their knees and asked China to trust them that Note 7 shit is not going to happen with S8/Note8
(it's somewhat normal in Asia to kneel)
I mean, if those will be the specs, and S8 won't be explosive, I am excited
affordable, powerful enough, untethered VR
(unless it will cost $900)
I guess simplicity of usage, better DRM and portability (as being able to carry it around the world without need to pay for luggage and worry something will break during transporting) is what attracts me to Gear VR
empty sundial
Been out of the game awhile. Is teleporting still the only fool proof world locomotion?
mighty carbon
I don't get why people dislike teleportation or quick swipe movement
btw, if you have one of those VR threadmils, then you can have normal linear locomotion ๐
mighty carbon
teleportation - you disappear from A and end up in B
swipe - you linearly move from A to B really fast
mighty carbon
dash, aye
clever sky
Yeah, definetly prefer dash over blink teleportation myself.
hard light
they're non-immersive and disorientating
clever sky
Teleportation is cool. But it needs the context of normal movement to make it cool.
mighty carbon
what for?
hard light
it's like Vanishing Realms, teleporty movement was okay, to a point
clever sky
Otherwise it just takes you out of the experience as you lose sense of scale
mighty carbon
don't you have enough normal movement in every day life?
hard light
but it rapidly became a problem once you got out of the castle
clever sky
@mighty carbon that question is as asinine as asking, don't you get enough normal head look everyday?
๐
hard light
(part of that problem was the big open spaces, and the archers)
mighty carbon
After trying various apps / games, I can tell you that I am 100% fine with teleportation when "on foot" and normal motion when inside a vehicle.
clever sky
That's cool for you. But most of the community doesn't feel that way.
mighty carbon
I don't look around much in every day life - I've seen my town too much ๐
no, most of people here don't feel that way
clever sky
People want a greater sense of immersion brought about by more realistic movement speeds.
hard light
"vocal minority", says my survey of anecdotal evidence
real needle
artificial locomotion makes me useless for up to 24 hours. and ive been using VR since the DK2
mighty carbon
as in - mass market doesn't care. They are fine with teleportation because it doesn't make them sick.
real needle
even thinking about some games (quake, doom, etc) is enough to make me dry heave
clever sky
Mass market does care - it will limit the functionality and experiences and it'll stop them from caring at all.
mighty carbon
when Samsung finalizes their Entrim 4D, then maybe normal FPS locomotion can be used widely
real needle
we need inner ear stuff, ASAP
clever sky
Anyway. I gotchu all covered.
hard light
there's no real way to manipulate the inner ear, I'm afraid
clever sky
Don't worry! Once I show it off, people will be like... well of course that was obvious.
And it's not the walking in place stuff I've been talking about. That's for more advanced users ๐
@real needle the nerves passing the vestibular signal are buried under too much flesh and bone
for us to be able to target them with any precision
mighty carbon
@hard light did you poll 100k of people? I found that surveys are junk unless large pool of people from various backgrounds is surveyd. hell, you can go on Reddit, poll 5k of people and they will tell you they want to not move their head and use standard FPS controls/motion (basically strapping monitors to their face). Is it representative of the mass VR market (or of VR in general) ? hell no
real needle
instead of going for the nerve, can't they do something with the small hairs?
hard light
I'm not the one claiming that they knew better than everyone else based on anecdotal evidence of the few people around me
clever sky
You mean the ones buried inside the vestibular organ?
mighty carbon
@hard light google "entrim 4d samsung" please ๐
clever sky
Well, if you can figure out a way to effect those independently of acceleration forces, you'll be a rich rich man.
Or at least do so in a practical way for VR.
mighty carbon
real needle
there must be some way, maybe with some low current AC
clever sky
Well, some groups are claiming that they've got something worth looking at.
But as far as we know (broad public understanding), vestibular stimulators are coarse and only really effect a few perceived axis of motion
Like roll and pitch... but not translational.
real needle
ahh
clever sky
... and if you don't have translational, you got bupkiss!
clever sky
Right... because the nerve fibers are small and clustered, stimulating them through a bunch of insulation isn't going to hit the right areas
mighty carbon
did you not look at Entrim 4D ?
hard light
I've seen it and tried it, it does not work (at all)
mighty carbon
so, videos are fake ?
real needle
what about really low frequency pulses deep in the inner ear
clever sky
The details are scant. It's doing something. It doesn't mean it's doing the right things.
real needle
audio i mean, air compression stuff
clever sky
You mean like... bass into your eardrums?
hard light
can't see that working either
mighty carbon
better not mess with you ears ๐
real needle
yeah but reallly low, gotta penetrate
hard light
you're basically trying to manipulate a fluid tilt switch without actually moving it
kind of hard to do
mighty carbon
just buy VR treadmill
clever sky
The vestibular organ doesn't detect those low frequency vibrations. That's what the ear does. And it has a lmited range.
real needle
treadmill doesnt do it at all
clever sky
You might as well show light to your finger tips.
mighty carbon
huh?!
real needle
treadmill i get at most a few inches of travel
for my head
and then i reset back, which sloshes everything the other way
real needle
that doesnt solve the inner ear, run forward for 30 minutes
that is not mimicking the actual forces in real life
hard light
it does absolutely nothing to combat VR sickness, because you're still not moving
it's a glorified input device
(and alternative to teleporting)
mighty carbon
have you tried it ?
real needle
i have run in place
clever sky
treadmill is ok for a lot of users, especially more experienced ones. It uses vestibular disruption to create noise that drowns out the expected motion signals
hard light
Do you understand how the vestibular system works?
mighty carbon
running in place and running on a treadmill aren't the same things
real needle
but it doesnt matter, unless you know of some force that isn't in textbooks
hard light
if your head does not accelerate, you do not feel like it is accelerating - it isn't rocket science
treadmills simply do not work
real needle
i agree the sloshing in your ear could be doing a thing though
hard light
(but yes, the noise would drown some of that out a bit)
clever sky
But your head does accelerate when you jog on the spot or on a treadmill.
hard light
not forwards
hard light
aye
clever sky
In fact, it accelerates to a much larger degree than the forward acceleration.
Vestibular noise.
Your vestibular system is fairly imprecise.
So for a pretty decent percentage of users, that vestibular noise is enough to prevent vection.
real needle
fair enough, i can see that
clever sky
Because... vection isn't caused by the mismatch between visual motion and vesitbular motion.
It's caused by... drum roll
real needle
people are tolerant of a lot of slop, input lag for example
clever sky
the mismatch between EXPECTED visual motion and vestibular motion.
Which is why we're discovering all sorts of weird tricks that seem to contradict the initial notion
of vection been visual motion and vestibular motion mismatch.
real needle
are you the one writing the paper?
clever sky
Uh. I wrote a paper.
real needle
oh can i see it? it wasnt done last time i asked
clever sky
That might not have been me that you were talking to.
Because I wrote that paper before I dsocvered discord.
real needle
it was in slack at the time
clever sky
I've never used slack?
real needle
either way, can i see your paper?
clever sky
Yes! In a month ๐
Gonna release my locomotion system and rerelease the paper.
Taken it down for some precaution ๐
I wrote it originally to get people interested in developing the ideas. But no one was interested in implementing my ideas as described, so I had to learn to program and learn to develop in Unreal
to implement them!
I mean... I get it. No one wants to read 30 pages, even if it is illustrated and clearly explained D:
They just want to try it.
wintry escarp
there are people who cant use a normal treadmill, theyre funny
clever sky
Yeah, there are a lot of individual differences in terms of vestibular function.
Because a lot of the expectation occurs in the cognitive system, rather than lower level sensory systems.
wintry escarp
see them now and then in the gym, running into the front of the treadmill or falling off the back
clever sky
Are you talking about people that get dizzy from using treadmills, or just uncoordinated?
Or just unfit? ๐
clever sky
Oh yeah. Well. That's just unco ๐
I don't think that's a vestibular thing. More like a muscle reflex thing.
mighty carbon
@clever sky so treadmill would work ?
empty sundial
So....yes? Teleport still the best we got? I'm still likely to use linear translation (a la Onward or Hover Junkers) but I was mostly curious if anyone has found anything promising for linear translation in the last three months.
The treadmill doesn't really do anything that a gamepad doesn't do.
clever sky
jwainwright, can't give away too many details, but I'll say that I've come up with a solution better than Onward/Hover Junkers.
mighty carbon
@empty sundial why on earth would you use something that makes people sick ?!
wintry escarp
treadmill would only let you got forward, no good
clever sky
I mean, obviously there's a bit of bias to that statement, but also a decent amount of research and understanding to it.
empty sundial
Because the people who play those games don't get sick and they are my target audience :-)
clever sky
@mighty carbon treadmill works for a fair amount of people. Sensitive users will still get sick. It's a vection reduction technique, rather than a vection elimination technique.
Also, we're not talking about standard treadmills (or at least I'm not) - we're talking about ODTs.
wintry escarp
I think making them walk in place would reduce sickness for a lot of people
and be more affordable
real needle
heh he makes a great point
clever sky
Yes. Walking in place essentially does what ODTs do.
real needle
FPS people seem to not be sensitive to it
clever sky
The main difference is you don't need to buy anything, and you don't get full hip swing.
But then ODTs have a bunch of undesirable cons as well, like loss of room scale (because you're strapped to an ODT), limiting freedom of movement (like squatting, crouching, lying down, etc)
hard light
the new PSVR arena shooter has linear translation
clever sky
space, cost, etc.
empty sundial
@real needle I think you have that backwards. There is a demographic who aren't affected by it, and I think it's a big enough segment of the VR pop to target.
hard light
they got around it by putting the player in a cockpit, however
mighty carbon
walking in place is not safe ๐
hard light
so it's the same old story as always, really, hehe
clever sky
Why do you say that motorsep?
mighty carbon
@empty sundial small target audience :/
empty sundial
VR is already small :-)
mighty carbon
@clever sky because I eventually wander into an obstacle ๐
hard light
(PSVR game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7qC8xdxrkg)
I do like the art style, it must be said
clever sky
@mighty carbon yeah ok. I gotta remember you're on the Gear VR, and I'm on the Vive ๐
Vive has chaperone bounds!
hard light
you can find a gameplay video if you want
clever sky
In fact, I've come up with a whole custom chaperone system that's used in part to prevent you from drifting.
clever sky
Standard vive chaperone is annoying due to the fact it ignores depth (it draws the lines over all game elements)
hard light
astute observation - it's almost like I mentioned that before posting it.
empty sundial
@clever sky would you say the arm swinging/rip motion ideas 'work' for some people due to increased vestibular noise? Or does it not work and it's a type of selection bias?
hard light
"ambershee - Today at 4:53 PM
they got around it by putting the player in a cockpit, however"
mighty carbon
I didn't see your post @hard light - working and chatting at the same time ๐
hard light
I don't think swinging your arms produces so much vestibular noise
clever sky
@empty sundial arm swinging is a different sort of mechanism.
hard light
it's not the same as running on the spot
clever sky
Essentially you're shifting your vestibular expectation due to self caused motion.
empty sundial
Still going to cause movement though admittedly not as much vs a gamepad.
clever sky
e.g. you could grab a big cardboard box and put it over your head and move it around with your arms
and not get motion sick.
empty sundial
Hm
clever sky
Even though you're getting visual motion that encompasses your full field of view
And if you try climbey, that's the effect that's happening there.
It feels not unlike moving a really huge cardboard world around you.
But unlike climbey, arm swinging isn't quite 1:1 arm to motion.
So can still trigger sensitive users.