virtual-reality

[pearl tangle]

i had a look yesterday and there are over 700 VR games on steam at the moment

[full junco]

what I saw (months ago) is that most VR games are horribly overpriced

[pearl tangle]

yeah supply and demand issue there. be the first to market and you can set the price point

or to quote Randy "it's simple economics son, I don't understand it at all"

[full junco]

I just wanna make an awesome game that people enjoy and I think for that its better to start with a lower price, and later when the game improved and you see that people like it slowly increase the price

[pearl tangle]

oh yeah. 90% of the stuff up there is a quick cash grab since there wasn't much competition and you don't have to go through greenlight process

im going to put up some of the projects I have been working on for brands there for free just for the hell of it so that people have some different stuff to try out

[full junco]

ok

[pearl tangle]

would love to have time to work on a proper game to release up on there

[full junco]

yiu can never have enough time for working on a game

I think I have quite a bit of time, but progress still feels super slooow

originally I wanted to release the game shortly after the vive was released 😛

[pearl tangle]

well im working on VR 90% of the time in my full time job. I have another company on the side touching on VR for enterprise applications so then finding the free time to do a game is not so easy hah

[full junco]

I just don't know how perfectionist I should be before its so late that VR gets boring or there are enough other awesome games to play

[pearl tangle]

well if your mechanics are there can always go for early access and get it in front of a few people

it's always good to learn how people actually use your stuff

[full junco]

well yeah I wanna do early access of course, but I still wouldn't want to release something that doesn't feel awesome enough to me 😄

[pearl tangle]

I build analytics into all the stuff we do and it's really interesting to see how people actually use things compared to your perception. Especially since 95% of people using the stuff I build have never tried proper VR before so all our ways of doing things are different since we are so comfortable with VR now

there is that really nice polished looking RTS/FPS sort of game that has incredibly little you can actually do in it now but just because of the polish they put on it they got a lot of sales

cosmic trip

[full junco]

ok

I know a few months ago the problem with VR games was that there was nothing with long term motivation

[pearl tangle]

raw data is coming along steadily but still problematic with a lot of stuff.

[full junco]

I read that name a few times now (here) but no idea what that game is about

[pearl tangle]

i was playing some of that clubhouse game the other night its quite polished, free and good multiplayer on it

give it a look. made by the guys that were doing the holodeck stuff

[full junco]

I also don't know about "the holodeck stuff" 😄

[pearl tangle]

google! they were the guys doing the stuff with the head mounted hydras and the ps move controllers and backpack pc's back before backpack pc's were cool and motion control was half decent

[full junco]

ok

[pearl tangle]

was such a nightmare screwing around with motion controls back before vive. i wasted so much time hacking stuff together with leap motion and hydras only to throw it all in the bin

and oculus and valve wouldn't give out dev kits to people that weren't making consumer facing games annoyingly

[full junco]

yeah vive tracking is awesome

[pearl tangle]

im going to go do the training session and get the tracker kit in december

[full junco]

tracker kit?

[pearl tangle]

yeah you get the prototyping kit and 40 sensors

[full junco]

40? quite a lot

[pearl tangle]

well there is 22 on each controller

and i think 32 on the headset

[dry fjord]

it's 50 sensors isn't it?

in the standalone tracker kit

[pearl tangle]

http://www.synapse.com/steamvr

[dry fjord]

what a ripoff

throw it all away

go back to living in caves

ride some dinosaurs

oh wait we're in VR, I guess 40 sensors was enough

[hard light]

$3000 per head for two days of tuition?

those sensors they're providing better be some serious shit

[pearl tangle]

well im also based in singapore so i have to fly back over to the states and have a hotel for a few nights so works out a lot more expensive

but for events based stuff it will be really interesting to be putting those trackers all over things rather than going with a $50k optitrack setup

[dry fjord]

I think the price is designed to keep out the no-hopers

since there'll be a lot of demand

[clever sky]

OTOH, Singapore is generally a great place to live, so big bonus on that over the states.

The food especially.

[clever sky]

Man... a game that's a mix between Elite/Freespace and FTL would be one of my dream games 😛

FTL is an amazing space commander game.

[winged shale]

😃

[fresh laurel]

@clever sky - I hear you

I want to make that Really badly

[clever sky]

But Elite Dangerous has its head so far up its own ass that it's sad

[winged shale]

that's what my game is!

[clever sky]

I know. Make it good! I'm picky! 😛

[winged shale]

it's aiming to be the space game that everyone wanted but all the devs shit the bed on making

I very well intend to

[clever sky]

Protip:

[winged shale]

pitorp

[clever sky]

Travelling in space is boring.

[dry fjord]

I always wondered how they fucked up dev on a game where circles fly at you

[winged shale]

yes! I agree

I'm including in the standard 'everyone's ship gets this' a lot of optimizations on Elite

I intend for it to be fun above all

and beyond that, really fucking cool

[fresh laurel]

@winged shale - What game are you making?

[clever sky]

Well, everyone's 'really fucking cool' differs. But I trust ya!

[winged shale]

it's called Iron Rain, it's a game about building spaceships and space combat

[clever sky]

If it was me, my 'really fucking cool' includes big robots. Fuck yeah. Robots in spaaacceeeee~

[winged shale]

it will have that

[clever sky]

Nice!

[winged shale]

the name "Iron Rain" comes from one of my favorite book series

more on that later

[fresh laurel]

40k?

[dry fjord]

make the upgrades easy to acquire rather than free

[winged shale]

Red Rising

[fresh laurel]

Might be thinking of Steel rain

[dry fjord]

and make the ship exterior layout configurable

[fresh laurel]

^

[winged shale]

none of that hold on mates

anyway, spaceships are made out of modules, including a command module that you use as cockpit

all modules have attachment slots

[dry fjord]

excellent

[winged shale]

some modules are 'hull modules'

you can add hallways, corridors, landing bays, etc

[clever sky]

Hmm hmm. Sounds sexy.

[winged shale]

to large attachment slots

[clever sky]

Plus it's in space, draw calls not a problem!

[winged shale]

to small or large ones, you can add weapons, tech modules like radar etc.

blah blah

[clever sky]

Did you use any system as a starting point for your own?

[winged shale]

no, I built the whole thing on top of UE4

[clever sky]

I mean design/feature wise

[winged shale]

I've been developing this for years, and designing it for 6-7 years, waiting for the perfect moment

[clever sky]

Oh nice.

[winged shale]

I've got notebooks filled with pages on interesting ideas on it

[clever sky]

So from whole cloth.

[winged shale]

yeah it's pretty much a space game as I always wanted it

[dry fjord]

http://i.imgur.com/8pTSVjV.gifv

[clever sky]

Damn son. You a bit loony!

Well good luck. Sounds like a huge project.

[winged shale]

it's in VR, intended for use with motioncontrollers, so you grab drag yourself around your ship, and you can have tools on your belt, which you use to move large and small modules, weld them to your ship, and move yourself (more tools later)

hence my zero-g movement video

[clever sky]

What kinda timeframe you thinking of releasing?

[dry fjord]

how is the player going to turn upside down in real life where there's gravity?

oh snap

[clever sky]

Grabs and rotates

the world

like a big blanket

or cardboard

[winged shale]

not very soon, but probably closed alpha in mid-early 2017

I've already developed a non-vr half-implemented version

[clever sky]

Ah yeah. Nice. So just working on the VR stuff enough to merge them?

[winged shale]

then I got access to a VDK1

mostly just looking through all old code and using what makes sense

architecting code significantly better this time

because I know what I want

the non-VR was a modular ship building game, you'd click and drag modules onto your ship, there were enemies that tried to kill you, modules of different levels

no inside of modules though

no sense of scale

so now I'm building it for VR first, then I'll adapt VR controls to PC w/o VR

[clever sky]

So you got crew members right? Because it's a big ship game?

[winged shale]

so, porting to KB + Mouse

yes I will have AI that can join your ship

very simple idiots that will do things you want

or your friends in a MP server

[clever sky]

Ah yeah. So they look like 'robots'? Does that mean you get human avatars for human players?

[winged shale]

no I mean they're AI controlled characters

[clever sky]

ok 😃

[winged shale]

@dry fjord https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rul5eB5yP6g ignore shitty test art in this level, and unpolished features that I'm working on, you'll get an idea of how the movement works

but yeah so giant robots:

[clever sky]

Fuck yeah.

Launch out of your space ship drop bay.

Then they have time delay on your hand movement so they feel heavy

and powerful!

[winged shale]

Iron Rain in the Red Rising books was an event that happens where orbital dreadnought ships assaulted another fleet and then Mars by firing massive human-containing, controlled robots into other ships, as boarding vessels

the air would be sucked out where they entered, but then they'd just rip through blast doors and employ carnage

[sly chasm]

um

i just got my rift

[winged shale]

so I'll have a massive module that fires a player in a huge robot as a boarding vessel

and you can grab-drag yourself around inside another person's ship and wreck everything

[clever sky]

@sly chasm Cool. Did you preorder the touch?

[winged shale]

maybe have robot guns attached

[sly chasm]

and it's telling me that its not picking up the hdmi

@clever sky not yet, no

[clever sky]

Not picking up the HDMI? Plugged right into the HDMI port on the back of the computer?

Or through extension?

[sly chasm]

yeah

the gpu

[clever sky]

Well. That's fucked.

Made sure you have the latest updates on everything?

[sly chasm]

i think so

[clever sky]

Plug and unplug a few times. Also what GPU you running?

[sly chasm]

what kind of updates would i need ?

gtx 1060

?

[winged shale]

what GPU are you running

[sly chasm]

gtx 1060

[winged shale]

it should be fine, if you have another HDMI slot on your OEM card, try it, if not, try to find a DVI-D to HDMI converter and plug in, that might work if it's a faulty HDMI

[sly chasm]

i dont know, b/c ive used that hdmi port before

and it worked

[winged shale]

update NVidia drivers?

[sly chasm]

btw, im typing on the on-screen keyboard

[dry fjord]

I like it

can't wait to try it

[winged shale]

thanks! you'll be one of the first then

just gotta fix 3e99999 bugs

I'm also starting a dev blog, I'll link it when I get the server up, etc.

probably add more videos too, s'watch out

oh shit

calling Super::Tick() on an AActor invokes the blueprint tick

blueprint tick is apparently NOT a delegate for Tick()

implications are: if you're changing where the offsets of your motioncontrollers are in C++, then updating values in the Anim BP by copying them in your BP derived of that class, it's going to be +1 frame late if you're following conventions and calling Super::Tick(dS) at the top of your Tick override

[dry fjord]

avoidable latency is never good

[winged shale]

indeed

also it looks like UpdateAnimation is called as a direct result of

componentTick on the skeletal mesh

which happens BEFORE the actor ticks

so I've solved 1 of two frames of lag, and I think if this works I'll have solved both

[sly chasm]

yep, my rift still isnt detecting stuff :/

[clever sky]

@sly chasm That sucks. Best bet is to talk to support. Post up on forums as well to see if you can get help that way.

That's crushing 😦 get awesome new toy home... and it doesn't work.

It just works for me, so I haven't had to do this troubleshooting.

My main problem is that my Vive is totally fickle and demands that I occupy my only HDMI port with it (even though it can technically use a DP to MiniDP connection).

So if I want to use my Rift, I have to crawl to the back of my PC and unhook the Vive and hook up the Rift.

[pearl tangle]

hah yep vive is very picky. some machines it likes displayport, some only hdmi

[clever sky]

What's annoying is the Rift is HDMI only as well.

It's like these jerks think HDMI ports grow on trees.

While requiring 9XX cards that only have 1 HDMI port. 1! Who thought that was a good idea?

Cheap bastards, pay for more timing chips! Or at least use both of them on the one card!

Also, the more digital these connections get, the worst their basic functionality becomes. VGA was so robust. DP just hates me with the passion of a thousand burning suns.

[full junco]

never had any problem with DP

DP is awesome

[clever sky]

Maybe it's my monitor as well.

And I can't seem to get a solid signal over a decent distance (2.5m +)

Had problems running DP on my 3440x1440 monitor. Had problems running DP on my Vive.

Have exchanged vid-card as well... yeah, just haven't had good experiences with it.

[sly chasm]

whoops

didnt see the notifications

but anyway

[clever sky]

So it's working?

[sly chasm]

no

[clever sky]

You've done all the troubleshooting you can think of?

[sly chasm]

but the thing is I bought this off of ebay for $100 less, but it was brand new

[clever sky]

Blown into the cable? 😛

[sly chasm]

so I dont think I can do the support ticket

[clever sky]

Was it a legit seller?

[sly chasm]

I mean

I got it

[clever sky]

...

[sly chasm]

and it was never opened

all the wrapping and stuff was still there

[clever sky]

I don't see why you can't get support/warranty on things bought off Ebay.

it's not second hand.

As long as you have all the receipts/email trail

[sly chasm]

the thing is when I asked him why he was selling it brand new and $100 less, he said that it was a gift, but he didnt need it

so I dont know if he has the numbers

[clever sky]

Sounds dodge.

Sorry you had to go through this experience. But gotta know they're a lot of scammers around. Use the resources you have at your disposal to contact Oculus and ensure proof of purchase.

[sly chasm]

how is it a scam though?

[clever sky]

If it is.

Maybe it's not? It's not working though.

Either way, gotta contact their support - can't really help you at this point. Beyond the obvious troubleshooting steps; ensure connection works, ensure drivers updated, locate someone else that you can try the headset with, etc.

[sly chasm]

I mean, I looked up the problem, and other people have it, its just that they had to contact the help desk to get new cables

[clever sky]

Yeah.

[sly chasm]

but I think you need the order number to get the cables

[clever sky]

You contacted the seller?

Get them to get you the order number

[sly chasm]

Ill try

[clever sky]

Good luck! Hope you can join the rest of us in VR!

[clever sky]

@winged shale Dunno if you've thought about it... but time dilation would be an amazing travel mechanic.

i.e. externally you travel slow. But internally it's fast!

So if you have a galaxy map, it's say something like 2 weeks to get from this star to the next star. And it'd also give you a 'real time' counter that says 2 minutes.

Would give rise to a host of interesting strategic opportunities in space faring game and make it realistic.

'realistic'

[full junco]

is MSAA really much worse with foliage than TAA?

[hard light]

surely it's the other way around?

[full junco]

@hard light why?

[hard light]

MSAA is basically supersampling along triangle edges, whereas TAA uses multiple samples at different frames, potentially causing jittery artifacts when rendering certain things

(it plays hell with the depth buffer in some cases)

I'd imagine with TAA you'd be getting a blurrier image with a lot of foliage

[dry fjord]

epic have said TAA suits foliage more due to its "fuzzy" nature

[hard light]

so in other words, it's blurry

lol

[full junco]

well I read this: https://forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?126489-Test-the-Forward-Renderer-in-your-PC-VR-projects-with-the-4-14-Preview&p=613114&viewfull=1#post613114

[restive blade]

Anyone know why AO is disabled in the VR demo scene and how to enable it ?

[full junco]

@restive blade you mean SSAO? epic says SSAO doesnt work well in VR, so thats probably why they disabled it. also, the forward renderer doesn't support SSAO

and epic basically thinks that most VR projects will use the forward renderer

[dry fjord]

I just got around to trying 4.14

this MSAA implementation is an utter joke

what the fuck

it actually looks worse than "none"

http://i.imgur.com/TYA2Lo7.png

ENHANCE

that's with MSAA samples set to 4

[dusk vigil]

Me again : I'm having trouble getting UnrealEditor to run with Oculus - keeps going into the message "UEEditor.exe is taking a while to load", tried launching oculus / unreal in different order, checked that the plugins are enabled and so forth. Using the 4.13.1 VR template

[full junco]

@dry fjord you are probably testing it wrong

@dry fjord are you sure you have enabled the forward renderer and then restarted the project?

[dry fjord]

yup

[full junco]

I have myself tested MSAA and it looks awesome

[dry fjord]

clearly not in every case

[full junco]

look at the pinned messages, there you see my comparison

[dry fjord]

can you explain what your point is?

[full junco]

my point was that I tested it and that it looks great 😄

[dry fjord]

my point is that I tested it and it doesn't

we're both right

[full junco]

so you are doing something wrong

[gilded oyster]

Need a 3rd party

[dry fjord]

so you're telling me that there's no way pre-release software is broken?

why do I hang out here

[gilded oyster]

Otherwise it's going to be "Uh huh!" "NUH UH!"

[full junco]

@gilded oyster voters in the USA also say that

[gilded oyster]

Ayyyyyyyyy

[full junco]

😛

@dry fjord the forward renderer in 4.14 preview is basically final, there are no changes planned towards 4.14 release

[dry fjord]

even if there's bugs?

[full junco]

well small bugs would be fixed

[dry fjord]

you're talking with an authority you don't have

[full junco]

but you are not talking about something small I think

[dry fjord]

I already raised it with epic

I'm going out, bbl

[full junco]

epic never really adds more features after a preview is out

they only fix bugs

and 8 days ago Epic said "I strongly recommend everyone with PC VR projects to try out the forward renderer immediately with the 4.14 preview and post feedback! There's a small window where bug fixes (but not new features) may still make it into the final 4.14 release."

so I just say what they said 😛

and that "small window" is probably over already

[hard light]

tbh, from that screenshot it does not look like MSAA is enabled at all

[full junco]

yeah

open the profiler to see if its really enabled

[dry fjord]

it's probably not

still a bug they can fix

I'm not in a rush for it so it doesn't bother me too much

[clever sky]

Goddamn surface studio announcement ad is...

bloody amazing. Like old school while steve jobs still alive ads.

I'm like, I don't even want an underpowered PC monitor thing, but that stupid ad makes me want one.

[cobalt relic]

Hi @dry fjord

Just asked the same question you did

MSAA does look like shit

[dry fjord]

got a screenshot?

[cobalt relic]

Nope, not here, but it definitely leaves plenty of visible artifacts

So it's definitely not you 😃

[dry fjord]

it's never me 😉

[cobalt relic]

I tried changing the msaa sample count, I think setting it to zero reverts to temporal

So basically I'm waiting to see if it gets better

[dry fjord]

something's probably disabling it

I wouldn't listen to people who think preview numbers increase without any fixes

[winged shale]

@clever sky that's a cool idea, the time dilation thing, I'll definitely write that down!

[clever sky]

Noice

[cobalt relic]

@dry fjord I'm confident MSAA is really running, since changing the sample count changes the rendering. It's just that it looks as bad as no AA at all

Which is hopefully a bug

[dry fjord]

interesting

what video card do you have?

[cobalt relic]

970

[dry fjord]

980ti here

hmm

[clever sky]

I've found that the MSAA implementation isn't too different from FXAA...

[dry fjord]

dunno really

[cobalt relic]

What i'm afraid of is something like :

• Hey, the MSAA is slow. Can't run in VR at 90fps.
• Make it faster, quality will be okay for VR.
• What about people using MSAA outside VR ?
• Lol what ?

[dry fjord]

that's why settings exist

[cobalt relic]

I couldn't care less about VR or GPU perf, so I really hope I can get a decent MSAA later

[clever sky]

But TXAA is awesome on normal screens 😛

[dry fjord]

MSAA is meant to look good. it's a bug.

[cobalt relic]

TXAA is FUBAR if you have a cockpit / helmet / 3D HUD / 3D UI

Barely usable at all

[clever sky]

ok D:

[cobalt relic]

I have a compromise in my game where temporal is acceptable with some noticeable artifacts, I'd love to switch to MSAA to get rid of that ghosting

I hope it's not going to end up like this http://cdn.overclock.net/3/36/36809188_TXAA.png

Looking at this https://de45xmedrsdbp.cloudfront.net/Resources/files/TemporalAA_small-59732822.pdf I'm really doubting it's a bug, it looks like MSAA is really bad

[normal thorn]

I talked to epic guys who said MSAA in VR looks good in certain cases. Like their robots game it looked good b/c they had a lot of architecture. But if they had a lot of plants a nature it would not

forward rendering is not for all projects

I'm not using it

Looked at reasons why and there aren't any for my project

I'm working with the constraints of the original renderer

straight lines look better with MSAA

[dry fjord]

check out my examples above, there's a case where it doesn't work at all

[normal thorn]

hmm

yeah not sure whats going on there

doesn't look like I'd expect

at steam dev days the said forward rendering is definitly not a 1 button solution, otherwise they'd make it standard

but yeah not sure whats going on in your image

[dry fjord]

I'm not even making a game, I just want to see it work

[normal thorn]

do you have an image where you swap samping types?

[dry fjord]

nah

I can make one later

oh wait

I have it open now

it's not in forward rendering mode though

that's TXAA in deferred

[normal thorn]

nice, and you want more?

that looks great

hah

I know you're just testing it

[dry fjord]

I need to use MSAA and deferred for another project later so it'd be nice if it worked a bit

[normal thorn]

you mean and forward?

[dry fjord]

yeah

my bad

[normal thorn]

well your stuffs been looking great so, I'm sure you'll figure it out when you really need it

its hard to mess with it when you don't actually need it yet and its not working for you as expected

feels like a waste of time trying to get something working when you really just wanted to test it. Now you see it may come with a headache

hah

[cobalt relic]

I don't really need MSAA either, to be fair

I'd settle for a "Don't apply AA to this mesh / material" button

Or a "Don't apply AA under depth x" button

Or a "Apply MSAA to this mesh and TAA elsewhere"

Or just no ghosting, but that comes with the AA method 😃

[winged shale]

yeah, deferred shading is working well for my game so far, I don't really have much text and it takes place in space

just turning off AO and some other post stuff has driven it down to a 4ms window for render on my 1080 machine and 7ms on 970. I'm sure I can get it lower when I need. I'll wait for proper forward rendering optimizations

[nova wave]

those bugs look like shadows are still done in screenspace

so even with forward render, some things are still done in deferred way

[dry fjord]

really poor implementation if it is

I really hope it's just disabled

those black artifacts on the ground are the worst, they crawl in VR

[nova wave]

black? I thought you were complaining about the white outline between mesh and background shadow

[dry fjord]

both

it's picking up artifacts from somewhere else

see the edge of the ground plane?

the white line is more obvious but there's black artifacts all over the back of the foreground object that's casting the shadow too

to be honest I think it's worse than just not having AA.

I don't think it's disabled, you can see that it's trying to AA

but it's blending all wrong or something

http://i.imgur.com/TYA2Lo7.png

there's the larger image again. if you view original it looks more like it's blending from the surface colour to black or white rather than the actual colour behind it

so it's a multisampling problem

and it's happening everywhere

if AA was off completely those black artifacts on the ground plane wouldn't be showing

anyway, bedtime

[clever sky]

Side note...

I once saw an AA technique

that involved pixel clamping thin lines to a single pixel

and then fading it out from there.

[nova wave]

hmm, this all looks like a light pass, I had the same bugs with MSAA and my renderer

[clever sky]

Like electrical wires

Where you get far enough from them

instead of jittery mess of pixels, you just get alpha values a pixel wide.

... Anyone know what I'm talking about here?

[junior prism]

Remember you'll have to tweak settings to get forward to work correctly anyway @dry fjord

Still investigating what those settings are

[dry fjord]

I didn't know that. When you find out tell me too please

[junior prism]

I want to get @fair anchor on the case too

Because he's better at this shit than me

[cobalt relic]

So I just fixed my render-breaking TAA issue

... By using masked instead of transparent

I am the world's most stupid person

[clever sky]

I'd dispute that.

But I'm not sure how.

realizes his self deprecating joke could also be taken an insult

[cobalt relic]

😄

I can now have a 3D cockpit that has less ghosting than bad horror movies

[clever sky]

Nice.

So you use masked for the alpha cockpit glass material?

[cobalt relic]

I don't have a glass material, but I have a 3D HUD with text and markers that acts as a physical part of the scene

Any ghosting on that is a death sentence as far as readability goes

[clever sky]

ooh

This is probably useful for me to know

Because I'm doing exactly that.

So masked is a much better solution?

I've got a 50% transparency black window...

behind my widget

[cobalt relic]

Well, masked won't ghost when moving

That's really the important part for that kind of stuff

[winged shale]

nice, but you can't put partial translucency with masked, right?

[cobalt relic]

Nope

[clever sky]

Ah

[cobalt relic]

So it's a tradeoff

[winged shale]

forward rendering is still young in the UE4

[clever sky]

Ah well. I'll keep my partial transparency

[cobalt relic]

I, for one, welcome my new masked transparency overlord

[clever sky]

I haven't found it to make my text particularly unreadable.

[winged shale]

I'm sure with enough bitching and whining we can get Epic to properly implement forward translucency

[clever sky]

Even though I do notice a bit of ghosty smearing

It's nice having the transparency, makes the text readable, but also doesn't block out your world view.

Which is somewhat important when the menu covers up most of your FOV when it spawns.

Although you can still move away from it in roomscale.

... did I mention that I like my menu system? I cribbed it from the SteamVR menu. Works largely the same way.

[winged shale]

nice

show it to us?

[clever sky]

Uh. Lemme check shadowplay

Dammit, it caught my humming.

[winged shale]

hahaha

I didn't realize it does that, so when I youtubed my video I just added annotations to it

like "snifffff" and "ahhhhhh"

roll with it

[clever sky]

Yeah

I'm too lazy to rerecord

[cobalt relic]

I did 40min of modeling showoff once, only to realize it also came with 40min of Nightwish

[winged shale]

omg hahaha

[clever sky]

Gotta make a channel and stuff

[winged shale]

lol we're in this together

channeling our creativity

[clever sky]

Alright.

So that's starting.

And with my aussie net connection, I'll have it uploaded in...

20 mins?

[winged shale]

hehe

I dislike how shadowplay doesn't give you any indication of how long it's going to take

[clever sky]

Pretty smooth experience though

[winged shale]

yeah

super cool that it runs a UI on top of windows output

[clever sky]

Lol.

I've called my demo 'Unreal Engine Demo | Shot with Geforce GTX

thanks shadowplay.

Didn't save the name I typed in earlier.

[winged shale]

I think it's funny what tags it puts on the video

I left them there

#GTXEgoBoost

[clever sky]

Haha

Gonna build a climbing system

You've got a 'climbing system' right?

[winged shale]

yeah, it's "climbing"

what's your game?

[clever sky]

So you grab a world static... then the position moves relative to your hand?

I'm not building a game yet. I'm just working on fundamental VR interaction problems.

[winged shale]

yeah positional climbing is ez pz

[clever sky]

How's it feel?

Have you tried climbing a rock cliff?

[winged shale]

honestly great, like we talked about it's super natural

yeah it's very fun

[clever sky]

Niceee

[winged shale]

before I implemented the rotational part that's basically what I did

but in zero-g

[clever sky]

What's the rotational part?

I'm leveraging that grip button to the hilt.

It's a mode shift to me.

[winged shale]

so in Iron Rain you can grab and rotate a single hand for a very gradual rotation change, or grab and rotate two hands for a more discrete rotation

[clever sky]

Ah

[winged shale]

you rotate yourself as you would on the ISS

[clever sky]

No vection?

[winged shale]

none for me, and I puked when I first tried my DK1

[clever sky]

Hehe. I've never puked from VR 😛

[winged shale]

it's extra good when you have direct control, it feels more like moving the world than you moving through it

[clever sky]

But that first DK1 demo, going up the stairs in the tuscany demo...

hoo boy.

Yeah.

[winged shale]

my wife says the same thing, that now that I've got it implemented properly, it is like moving the world

[clever sky]

Like moving curtains.

Or a big cardboard box around your head

[winged shale]

except when you let go, it keeps moving

and you bounce off stuff

[clever sky]

Makes sense for a space game... but not great for VR

[winged shale]

that's the part that is most troubling for me, is physics collisions with your body can be... jarring

so I'm going to have to figure that one out

[clever sky]

Probably set that functionality into pro-mode

[winged shale]

yeah

[clever sky]

Gotta dial make simulation to accommodate for usability sometimes 😛

[winged shale]

I think I'm going to make it so when you hit something, you 'grab' it with your body collision, so you're glued to it until you move yourself with your hands

[clever sky]

Hmm. Could work for sure.

[winged shale]

and when you start moving with your hands, everything will be fine again

[clever sky]

Yeah.

So.

No idea if this clip has finished uploading.

How do you tell?

[winged shale]

it will show up on video manager

also Shadowplay will alert you

[clever sky]

Ah

[winged shale]

in the top right corner

[clever sky]

Well, that's probably gonna take a while.

But yeah, it works much like the steam menu if you can imagine that.

except it spawns with a rotation relative to your controller rather than your face.

Which I've found feels nicer.

Yeah, so I'm working on a demo to show case my locomotion solutions.

Because I think I've cracked it. But it has some caveats.

mainly that it takes about 5-15 minutes to get used to it. After that...

It's sunk its claws into you and you'll wish everything else was like it!

[winged shale]

hehe

looking forward to seeing/trying it

[clever sky]

Yeah... it's a walking in place solution.

But they've been received...

middlingly.

But the details of implementation matter, a lot.

Compared/contrasted it to the rest out there, and it's ... well, obviously I'm biased... but also I try to assess things fairly so I know how to better improve my own stuff.

it kicks the tar out of the rest of the walking in place demos out there.

Question for you

Do you end up spending a lot of time just messing around in the game when you're making it?

Instead of actually working on it.

Like a lot of that time is bug checking, but beyond explicit bug checking.

[winged shale]

I feel that that is a symptom of a great game, when you as the dev even would rather be playing it than being productive

and yes

[clever sky]

Yeah... nice. That's my feeling too.

I just wanted to double check

Like when the stuff works well, you just want to play with it.

Makes sense.

[winged shale]

especially the procedural elements of the non-vr version of my game, I could get lost for hours "bug-checking"

[clever sky]

I wish the tank game I made would port better to VR.

The tanks have the maneuvering quality of rocket arena. Except with guns.

I shrunk the field down to toy size... and that was super amusing.

And made them control like R/C vehicles (including a similar vantage point)

But aiming was super hard D:

Actually... now that I remember it, that was with Rift and gamepad only.

Maybe I should revisit it with motion controllers.

That's right. I stopped developing that to work on VR stuff so that I could gain the know how to make that game good in VR.

Ah... just tried climbey.

Fantastic climbing mechanics.

Pretty much what I was picturing in my head. Except with one small trick that's even more awesome

Climbey more awesome that is.

[winged shale]

what, the ring around the player?

that allows you to move by jumping

[clever sky]

Nah, not that.

The smooth lerping of Z position when you get up on a ledge

Back to the eye height.

[winged shale]

oh yeah that's important

[clever sky]

I was just going to port.

[winged shale]

that's what I was talking about with going up stairs yesterday

[clever sky]

But it feels better.

Ah yeah

[winged shale]

do expo-out up to head position and floor position matching

[clever sky]

Nah, I figured out that problem.

Uploading the vid manually.

Says it has 3 hours remaining.

Ahhhhhhh.... my internet sux

@winged shale Anyway. headed to bed. I'll message you a vid of it tomorrow.

[winged shale]

ah man that's rought

see you tomorrow

[vale matrix]

Is anyone familiar with the Epic supplied VR template from 4.13? I have a question on how the collision volume gets attached to BP_PickupCube

And by question I probably mean n00b question 😊

It seems to ignore the collision that's attached to the mesh and instead creates its own sphere collider.

Actually that's not right, I guess my question is what is this green thing around the BP Mesh? It seems to freak out when I put it into a tight space.

[pallid echo]

@vale matrix That's the center of mass for the object

You change Center of Mass under the physics options in that BP.

[vale matrix]

Ok cool, that solves that mystery

ahhh, I think the issue is with the collision set up on the mesh I'm trying to rest this on...as usual I have things backwards

[tawdry dragon]

One of my friends just started in his new shared office space where 2 guys are doing some VR dev. They live streamed their alpha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mwc5AbSEnM

[jagged vale]

don't have a headset yet but making a game with VR in mind, can field of view cause issues? is going up to 120 likely going to be a problem?

[granite jacinth]

Like/Retweet please: https://twitter.com/victorburgosG3/status/792132036098138112

[limber rose]

Hey @jagged vale I don't think you'll want to change the FOV, weird things will happen with the VR headset I think, although your VR and desktop experience can be different of course

hey everyone, I am pulling my hair out, my "teleport", from one area to another, stepping through a "portal" I guess, will not rotate, HMD yaw take over as you can imagine

I think I had this working before by using SetActorRotation on my character

but anyway, any recommendations? nothing seems to be working without breaking everything else 😄

[jagged vale]

@limber rose thanks for the insight, i'll leave at 90 😃

[limber rose]

yeah, 😃

I guess the intention is to replicate the "natural" FOV of vision, so switching the default value does strange things hehe

[dry fjord]

never change the FOV

let the game decide which HMD it's using and set it based on that

so, there's a Victor at Inversion Studios and a Victor at Invrse?

now it's a race to see who gets to be "the other victor"

[limber rose]

lol

@dry fjord any suggestion on how to SetControlRotation with HMD?

[dry fjord]

what are you trying to do?

[limber rose]

I am trying to rotate the HMD after relocating the character

setcontrolrotation works fine normally, but in VR it is superseded by the HMD orientation

https://issues.unrealengine.com/issue/UE-21676

it is a bug, I am trying to find a workaround

[dry fjord]

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/htc-vive-and-conde-nast-china-jointly-introduce-the-worlds-first-augmented-vr-reading-experience-powered-by-vivepaper-300351617.html

why didn't I think of this

@limber rose always rotate the pawn

and only ever rotate its yaw

and only ever teleport, don't animate

so rotate the Z exclusively during teleport

basicall the pawn is always your chair or the center of your roomscale bounds

but on the ground

when you teleport, you move the pawn

and your HMD location is offset to that

when you rotate, you rotate the pawn in the world

[limber rose]

Yes, I also tried SetActorRotation, etc for the pawn

that doesn't work

as the HMD orientation overrides again

it works for one frame I think, and then the HMD takes over again

I do not know how to change the "base" HMD orientation for the Vive

the function/node from the Oculus library works only on the Rift it seems

how could I add yaw input? I haven't had luck with that either, I'm thinking perhaps I could calculate the movement required, and just input it?

[dry fjord]

the HMD doesn't re-orient

by rotating the pawn you rotate the world

I just told you how to change the base rotation

go away and do it until it works 😛

you never add input btw

you always just let the camera track to the HMD with that checkbox

are you using the proper pawn from the VR template? go get that

MotionControllerPawn

even if you're doing seated with no motion controllers

[limber rose]

lol

ok, I will give it a shot again with a fresh mind after a redbull ❤

thanks for your input, will definitely attempt it in a moment

[dry fjord]

haha good luck

fuck yeah stimulants

[limber rose]

hehe

[limber rose]

Well, I seem to of figured it out

[dry fjord]

good work!

even though it's completely the wrong way to do it 😉

whatever works I guess

[limber rose]

lol

it works 😛

but yes, I agree with you that rotating the character should work

but it didn't 😛

it might have to do with my adding the VRExpansionPlugin

once I add it to the VR Template even, it stops working

but hey, it's working, I am soooo happy, haha

oh wow, reading the vive/condenast press release now, pretty rad

[dry fjord]

seen the latest update to Hot Dogs, Horseshoes and Hand Grenades?

[clever sky]

That took all night to upload.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2LD9KPCPik

[fresh laurel]

Video is private

[clever sky]

Lol

Yay

Ok, try again? It's a vid of my menu that @winged shale requested a look at. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2LD9KPCPik

[dry fjord]

good menu

also raw data has the worst menus in any game I've ever played

[clever sky]

Cheers

Haha... why's that?

[dry fjord]

hard to use

[clever sky]

Ah, the hand flashy shit

[dry fjord]

you have to fucking BE AT THE MENU, it doesn't go to where you are

quite often you end up in a multiplayer queue without ever wanting to be that you have to reload the game to get out of

it's very very unintuitive

you can't tell what's a button and what's not

[clever sky]

Yeah.

Fair enough.

[dry fjord]

you can't exit out of a lot of menu states

it's just shit

needs an overhaul

[clever sky]

I'm just sticking with the basics of menu design. tried and tested.

[dry fjord]

when you do menus in VR, think "what would apple do?" and then do it simpler again

[clever sky]

Like... I like the idea of playing with physical buttons and sliders.

But as menu, it's inferior to... laser pointer

Fuck, I'm lazy! But don't make me move my arm 30 cm per menu item when I could just move it 4 cm

Keep those buttons and sliders in the world itself!

That's what I think anyway.

[dry fjord]

the menu should be on one of the controllers

ez

guys how do I make VR over-render?

[clever sky]

over-render?

[dry fjord]

so that it's rendering at say 130% and scaling down?

[clever sky]

console command

[dry fjord]

go on

[clever sky]

setresolution

lemme check

100 default

[dry fjord]

any idea what it's called?

[clever sky]

Just have to open up my project

I'm using it

default to 150

r.ScreenPercentage XXX

So use command console node and something like game mode blueprint to set it

[abstract gale]

nice hot dog update lol

anyone play Solus? worth getting?

[clever sky]

@abstract gale If you like getting lost in fairly immersive alien worlds for a few hours

Yes.

It does have a find X number of items section in the game though... and the game world is huge.

... and leaves few clues as to where those items are

[abstract gale]

hmm, not really an alien fan yet

@clever sky menu looks nice, button sliders look small?

[clever sky]

Thx for feedback. Will increase them

I was just thinking when I set them - make them look big enough to look like sliders

Because the default is barely visible.

[abstract gale]

hah, yea

[clever sky]

So comparatively my slider buttons are huge!

Just... now in retrospect, they're actually normal sized. hahaha

[abstract gale]

VR is go big or go home and as accessible as possible I think

everything else can get away with other inputs

like if you couldnt physically grab it or place your entire finger on it.. no go

[clever sky]

Yeah. It's fairly usable that menu - I just have to shrink the laser... but I'm just using the default VRwidgetinteraction debug pointer.

[abstract gale]

ahh

[clever sky]

Which I can't customize except for color.

[abstract gale]

cant customize in BP?

havent tried

prob c++

[clever sky]

Only the color

As far as I can tell

Yeah in C++

just inherit and override

Hmmm. I'll just crib size cues from Steam menu

[abstract gale]

@dry fjord u have hhh game?

[clever sky]

They've spent time and effort making that usable.

[abstract gale]

true

[clever sky]

And people are using it now with no complaints 😄

[abstract gale]

if a baby cues.. u got a winner

[clever sky]

is that a pun?

[abstract gale]

if a baby can use it

[clever sky]

Ah

I'll stick my niece in there

[abstract gale]

good call

[clever sky]

But she's too small to grab the controller properly.

[abstract gale]

lol

[clever sky]

😛

[abstract gale]

my daughter is 11, perfect tester

[clever sky]

I tried man. I tried. Because she always wants to look.

[abstract gale]

just need to figure out kid testing, try this VR experience and get free ticket to disney

after survey

[clever sky]

Haha. *Disney

*offer may be limited to VR disney on steam store.

[abstract gale]

hah good one

[clever sky]

Not many people talking about Climbey...

bloody awesome game tho

[abstract gale]

never heard of it..

[clever sky]

Well you have now 😄

http://store.steampowered.com/app/520010/

Also has a demo to download free

When you're confident your mechanics are good, you put up a demo.

Because people want it more. Otherwise demos actually do sales more harm than good 😛

[winged shale]

@clever sky nice menu, can you even read all that text though?

[clever sky]

Yeah easily.

Once you get close enough

The small text is just explanation text that you generally won't need to read again

After you figure out what the thing does.

[winged shale]

nice interaction flow

[clever sky]

Cheers

It's a fairly large menu. About 1.5m wide by 1m tall

So the text isn't small.

It just spawns 1m away from you by default.

Hmmm... Looks like someone's made a space ship management game on Steam

looks pretty good. downloading the demo...

http://store.steampowered.com/app/531050/

[winged shale]

cute

slightly more micro and on-rails than what I'd want out of my game, but it looks excellent

[clever sky]

Yeah. Surprsingly solid looking for something that's flown under the radar.

I guess they just didn't know how to do pre-release marketing well 😛

[winged shale]

by the way, I've filed a bug report for the 1-frame latency on animBP, check it out here and if this is bugging you too, please vote it up so it can get resolved for all of us: https://answers.unrealengine.com/questions/515893/animation-blueprint-with-ik-has-latency-of-1-frame.html

[clever sky]

Upvoting because I know it'll annoy me at some point

even if it doesn't effect me now 😛

[winged shale]

😉 thanks

[sly chasm]

Ok, so now I know completely that my rift is genuine

and is brand new

I have the order number

and it's still doing this:

everything's plugged in

[fresh laurel]

Did you get it second hand?

If so support wont help you.

[sly chasm]

I have the number though

[fresh laurel]

I am just saying. Not trying to pass judgement

Allthough this was a year ago

maybe more

DK2 days

[limber rose]

hm

have you tired connecting to different ports, etc etc?

[sly chasm]

yeah

Ive tried reinstalling drivers and everything

[limber rose]

:/ I don't own a Rift so not too familiar with the setup, I have a Vive

hm

yeah, I can imagine how frustrating it must be

but I trust you will get it working

[sly chasm]

very

hmm

[limber rose]

Oculus should have a rep in here 😉

[sly chasm]

really?

[limber rose]

lol, they should yes

would be amazing 😛

[sly chasm]

oh

ha

[limber rose]

hehe

have you tried Reddit?

a lot of traffic on there, might be a thread with some steps to try

[sly chasm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pVT_mvvZLo

[limber rose]

lol, I'm a Conchords fan

[sly chasm]

eyy

I allready sent in a ticket though and they automatically responded with "we'll get to you shortly"

[limber rose]

hm

any simple way to check the headset is booting up right?

[sly chasm]

I dont know

[limber rose]

is it powered properly etc?

[sly chasm]

I think so

there's a glowing orange dot on

[limber rose]

on the Vive there is a little light, lets you know if anything is wrong (red LED)

ah

maybe look that up

[sly chasm]

and whenever my face gets close it turns off

[limber rose]

not sure what that might mean? perhaps "standby"?

[clever sky]

@sly chasm Able to try your rift on another computer?

[sly chasm]

Im going to a friend's house tomorow

[clever sky]

Yeah. Important to figure out what thing is at fault. For some reasons HMDs are kinda fickle

Works on one machine but not another

[sly chasm]

yeah

originally, yesterday, everything was on exept for the hdmi

now the usb's off

[clever sky]

D:

[winged shale]

ugh stupid SteamVR Beta crashing all the time, anyone else suffering this?

[clever sky]

Me

even when not running steamvr beta

actually its steam crashing

and making steamVR unusable

[winged shale]

for me it's ever since this latest update

[sly chasm]

okay

so after replugging everything again

it now looks like this:

and tweaking power settings

but replugging the hdmi does litterally nothing

[clever sky]

How are you running your monitor?

through HDMI?

[sly chasm]

;LAJSDFLK;JASDFL;KJ

EXUSE ME!!!!

MY OCULUS RIFT IS PLAYING MY COMPUTER'S SOUND

ALK;SDJFEWR

[clever sky]

??

It kinda works but it doesn't?

Anyway, if you have another HDMI port, try plugging it in that.

[sly chasm]

I dont

my monitor is running through dvi right now

my main usually uses display port

[clever sky]

Ah

[sly chasm]

usually*

I dont have it plugged in just in case

[clever sky]

Try disconnecting the DVI and use the DP? HDMI shares a timing chip with the DVI

Don't think that'll do anything though.

But... if it does, yay?

[sly chasm]

I pray

nope

[clever sky]

😦

[limber rose]

😦

feel for you, total bummer

keep trying :/

[sly chasm]

I think I might just get an adapter

that seems to work for other people

[limber rose]

hm interesting

super lame I know, and I am sure you've seen it, but just incase: https://product-guides.oculus.com/en-us/documentation/rift/latest/concepts/rgsg-3-ts-setup-troubleshooting/

did you make sure your GPU drivers are up to date?

[sly chasm]

yeah

[limber rose]

hmmm

sometimes USB chipsets or video cards can be weird

can be very frustrating

I have a music studio with a mac pro for instance, and the USB buss doesn't like having certain devices plugged into it, it can be like wack-a-mole when trying to get certain things working together

and my Vive acted funny with my old pc when I had a certain combo of HDMI/displayport/etc going on

on a 960

I wish all this gear was more mature :p but I guess this is why they call it "early adoption"

[restive blade]

are you on a laptop by any chance ?

if you are.. turn on screen extend...

[mortal current]

how do I prevent the editor from starting up SteamVR when I open it?

I'm on 4.14

[sullen stirrup]

https://answers.unrealengine.com/questions/441149/how-to-disable-auto-steamvr-launch-on-ue4-launch.html this?

[mortal current]

ah, yep. thanks

[dry fjord]

does anyone have a fix for or a way to supress "SteamVR Compositor had an error on present (108)"? it's making my log unusable

[wintry escarp]

they realy need to change that, they have a ton of plugin enabled by default

[pallid echo]

@dry fjord I'm having the same issue. I posted it as a bug on AnswerHub.

[dry fjord]

cool

[real needle]

I'm not the only one that has to restart steam and steamvr if I put my comp to sleep am I?

[sullen stirrup]

it works fine after sleep here

but it randomly hangs when working normally

so I guess that's expected behavior

👀

[real needle]

Hmmm I'm seeing it on two computers

It'll say steamVR is running and all OK, but it won't actually work in editor

Yeah hangs, losing track of controllers in editor etc happens all the time

But it's stable when playing binaries so atleast there's that 😃

[dry fjord]

oh dude got something

I never noticed but they've added filtering to the developer console

turn off warnings

@pallid echo

[pallid echo]

Oh sweet 😄

Getting debug info in VR is already hard enough. Don't need to make it harder damn it

lol

[dry fjord]

actually fuck that did nothing

I guess just use the filter text to find what you want 😉

[pallid echo]

Aw

[dry fjord]

if I have a single-shot message I make it last for 100 seconds. you can see it in the editor when you stop play

so that at least works

well none of this filtering shit works what the fuck

I don't get what's wrong at epic

hire another three developers to fix stuff that regresses

don't allow regression to become acceptable

write some goddamn unit tests

because there are none

suddenly every release will be near perfect

[real needle]

On the topic of debugging... would anyone know how I can figure out why SteamVR Bounds isn't working in a packaged build? I'm not getting any values for "get bounds". SteamVRchaperone component is part of my BP_PlayerPawn, and that's also where I get bounds on begin play

[dry fjord]

it doesn't work

that's it

[real needle]

Really? 😦

[dry fjord]

yup

zap has been hassling epic about it

[real needle]

But that's god awful!

[dry fjord]

yes it is

[real needle]

I made an extra chaperone system called safetyspikes

[dry fjord]

right up there with swamping the log with shit and not suppressing duplicate messages

[real needle]

For our melee game

[dry fjord]

yeah I wanted to do a themed chaperone

only works in PIE though

[real needle]

Ffs... we're about to ship this demo

[dry fjord]

there's a number of things that don't work in shipping. always test in shipping 😉

[real needle]

"Always play, always package" is our motto

But the safetyspikes was the last thing I did

Doesn't even work in devbuild

[dry fjord]

yeah

as soon as you're out of PIE it's gone

[mortal current]

anyone have experience importing the HTC vive controller model?

I just imported it from the OpenVR resources, but the model is very tiny

[dry fjord]

yeah you probably have to fix the scale

where'd you find the model?

[mortal current]

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\OpenVR\resources\rendermodels

[dry fjord]

aah cool

oh boy

[mortal current]

I'm using the model in the vr_controller_vive_1_5 folder

[dry fjord]

which of my 8 drives is openVR in

thanks, I'll search for that

[real needle]

@versed patrol You need to scale it 100 on import

[dry fjord]

I'd just measure the controller then get the model up to the same number of units

ah, there you go

[real needle]

Or enable engine content in the content browser and you can find the mesh that unreal uses for the VR Editor

[dry fjord]

it's in meters and needs to be CM

oh really?

what's it called?

[real needle]

Yeah!

just search for vive

[dry fjord]

ok

[versed patrol]

@real needle wrong samgreeeeeen?

[real needle]

oh sorry haha

@mortal current There we go

[mortal current]

thanks, that seems right

now I just have to figure out why they're shaky in my game and orient them correctly

[sullen stirrup]

it's named previve or smth

[mortal current]

mannn... the 4.14 renderer keeps crashing or something

[2016.10.30-00.50.56:910][388]LogD3D11RHI: Timed out while waiting for GPU to catch up. (0.5 s)

[dry fjord]

that's unusual

I see that but it's only ever a warning and only if I'm slamming the GPU with CUDA

is there something you're doing that's really GPU intensive?

[mortal current]

shouldn't be

it's a very simple scene

[real needle]

@mortal current Make sure it's not running at 45 and reprojects

That's usually when you see the "shakyness"

I tend to leave stat fps on at all times

It can be an early notification that something is wrong

The first time I ran 4.14 I had some perf issues, and it went away

Make sure you don't have any movable light sources

[mortal current]

how do I see that stat in VR? 😛

the mirrored display the editor opens is black

[junior prism]

What kind of hand gestures are like good for VR

like what poses are good to have?

Grab / Idle / .etc

Point obviously

Touch pad

Any more?

[mortal current]

depends on the game I'd say

Bigscreen has point, fist, and thumbs up

in that game you just sit in a room with another person and you can see their screen

so the pointing makes sense

with thumbs up you can indicate yes or no non-verbally

[real needle]

@mortal current Are you using a vive or the rift?

[mortal current]

vive

[real needle]

It shouldn't be black

Have you messed with console command hmd mirror?

[mortal current]

no

[real needle]

hmd mirror 0-4 will set different previews