virtual-reality

[mighty carbon]

in FPS game that is, not in VR

[hard light]

except you don't

there mght be a character in the middle of the screen

but the player could be looking at a butterfly in the bottom left

or their health bar in the top right

you just don't know

[mighty carbon]

that dumb

player looks with his mouse

[hard light]

no, he looks with his eyes

the mouse just orientates the camera

i.e the viewport

he could be looking at any part of the screen

at anything in the viewport

[mighty carbon]

if I am looking at the button, then press action key, who gives a damn where physical person is looking at - button pressing cinematic kicks in

[hard light]

this stuff is important :/

[mighty carbon]

if player is next to a corner and presses "lean" button - who gives where person is looking at - leaning animation will kick in

[hard light]

yeah, I give up, you clearly don't want to understand what I'm trying to put forwards

[mighty carbon]

I do, when you talk about VR

otherwise it's not applicable to conventional non-VR games

[hard light]

it really fucking is

it forms the basis of a lot of principles of human-computer interaction

it's why user interfaces (good ones) work and why bad ones do not

why some games have good HUDs, others not, and why some gameplay mechanics work and some don't

[clever sky]

Funnily enough, this little conversation is directly applicable to my work, and has caused me to find an issue and fix it!

[hard light]

haha

[mighty carbon]

"you have no way of knowing what a player's body is doing, so don't design things assuming you can" << how is this applicable to conventional FPS game ?

[clever sky]

Well, maybe not fix it yet, but I will in the morning!

[hard light]

the point is, is that trying to assume whether a player is leaning or not, is the same as trying to assume you know what a player is looking at on a flat screen

the information is not there, so you don't try to design an application as if it is

[clever sky]

As far as leaning goes... here's what you can know - the player height (if calibrated).

The HMD pitch.

[hard light]

player height isn't calibrated in the Vive 😉

[clever sky]

From that, you can infer quite reasonably a few things.

[mighty carbon]

VR: only position is tracked in 3D space, no way of knowing whether player is leaning or walking

[hard light]

it's actually better that way, to be fair

[clever sky]

Not by default. But the functionality can certainly be added.

[mighty carbon]

non-VR: if player pressed "lean" button - player is leaning; if player uses "WASD" player is walking; if player uses lean button and WASD, player walks while leaning.

see the difference ?

[clever sky]

Not 100% accurate, but 95% there!

[hard light]

but you still couldn't necessarily infer anything from it - what's the different between leaning fowards, or crouching a little, and just looking down ;)?

HMD's height and orientation is the same

[clever sky]

The difference would be...

[mighty carbon]

by design, there might be only "lean left" and "lean right". you as a designer create possibilities for player. In VR, you can't.

[clever sky]

that they'd fall off the ledge before they could crouch and look down! 😛

[hard light]

I've already given up on you motorsep; you're arguing with yourself :p

[mighty carbon]

that's because you are wrong

[clever sky]

Hahaha. Yeah. We're dealing with imperfect systems here.

[hard light]

and as far as the HMD is concerned, the motion is more or less the same

you just can't tell what the player is doing

[mighty carbon]

like 100% wrong

about non-VR

[clever sky]

But my philosophy runs contrary to yours - approximate intention where uncertainty exists.

[hard light]

I'm not wrong, you're just arguing about somehting completely different and refusing to understand, which is why I've given up

[mighty carbon]

and I 100% agree about VR

[clever sky]

Rather than eschewing intention without certainty.

Basically... sure, people can 'game' your system, but if they don't, and they act normally in most instances, it'll work most of the time!

And for the times it doesn't, provide some graceful failure/affordance to let them know what's going on.

[hard light]

the problem is you're making assumptions - in the example, nobody is gaming the system, they're just doing two different completely rational things that the tracking system can't tell the difference between

[mighty carbon]

and I get that

(now)

[clever sky]

shrug my whole movement system is built off assumptions!

And it works pretty damn well 😛

[hard light]

has it been exposed to people who've never used VR?

people do weird things, that can be hard to account for

[mighty carbon]

so invisible ledge to hold player is what I'll do (if they ever finish their positional tracking for Gear Vr and release UE4 plugin)

[hard light]

learnt that quite quickly doing user testing back in the pre-launch Kinect days

[clever sky]

Not yet! I've kinda shown most people around me VR...

[hard light]

hehe, I suspect you may be in for some surprises, depending on what assumptions you've made

some people will behave in ways that seem completely irrational

with Kinect it wasn't so bad, because you teach people the gestures required to play the game

but VR kind of encourages more natura movement in a lot of respects

[clever sky]

I'm not too worried in that regard. The only thing I really require from users is pretty intuitive.

And good clear initial instructions go a long way towards reducing confusion.

But... there is probably a couple minutes worth of learning curve. A bit steeper than teleportation.

But not hugely so!

[hard light]

well, best of luck - remember, the best laid plans come to nought the moment they encounter the enemy xD

[clever sky]

Cheers! I'll certainly consider the things you've said.

But that doesn't mean the solution is necessarily to eschew this approach!

Tweaking, refining can yield useful results too.

[mighty carbon]

what about jumping in VR?

or no one jumps in VR ? 😃

[sharp swan]

my missus will when she plays some horror games.

[clever sky]

Just tested my ledge leaning system.

You can crouch an gain some extra 'lean' distance.

But you want to be cautious, because falling when you're not expecting it is kinda scary!

[mighty carbon]

so how do you do your leaning/movement system ?

[clever sky]

I draw a sphere at user's feet, under the HMD.

if the sphere isn't colliding, assume it's in the air and drop the player.

If they lean, their height will dip

so increase the size of the sphere.

up to a certain threshold

So basically the lean distance varies from 25 to 50 cm

Which isn't huge... and will cause you to quickly fall off the edge if you keep moving forwards.

But on the other hand, is enough to allow you to lean forwards a little without you falling off immediately!

[mighty carbon]

how do you deal with going off sync @hard light was talking about ?

[clever sky]

Uh... I don't find that to be a problem?

I mean... I don't know how it'd 'go off sync' given that it's tracking the HMD

and you are the HMD. and all the functions are based off HMD positioning...

[hard light]

he doesn't have synch problems because he isn't making assumptions and moving the player

[clever sky]

like it'll never cause the player to be 1 meter away from where they actually are?

Also I'm building on top of an open VR plugin that has solved a lot of those 'sync' issues.

Such as matching the player location with the actor collider.

[mighty carbon]

what if player walks ?

in real-life

[clever sky]

They fall

😄

[mighty carbon]

so there is no scenario in the game where they can move more than 50 cm and not fall ?

[clever sky]

50cm away from ledge with nothing beneath, yes.

Unless I place an invisible collider under their feet

and make them walk across it like Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade

[shrewd gust]

Oculus Keynote starts soon

https://www.twitch.tv/oculus

in abou t20 minutes

Just a reminder

live stream started

but still has about 12 minutes

[mighty carbon]

@clever sky so really you don't do lean/walk thing. It's always walk, right ?

[clever sky]

I'm not sure what you mean lean/walk?

[mighty carbon]

I mean you only change location of the actor in the horizontal plane, not messing with camera in relation to actor itself

[clever sky]

So the way it works with roomscale VR is that the actor is located in the center of the room.

And the camera moves around relative to that.

The actor can move around the world - just the local 0,0,0 is the center of the room.

[mighty carbon]

what I was thinking is to move only camera if HMD moves slightly, and move whole character actor if HMD moves a lot. Since there is no way of knowing whether real person leaned or moved, we can't really mess with camera/actor because it will go off sync with real world.

[clever sky]

so... the camera moves in relation to the actor. But I don't move the HMD around.

That's verboten!

Or rather I don't move the camera around directly, only indirectly through the actor.

[mighty carbon]

so the only proper way is to move whole actor in the scene

right

[clever sky]

But. You can turn off actor collision and create a new collision capsule where the camera is.

So that the collider moves with the player.

And can thus 'detect' if the player is walking into walls, off cliffs/ledges, etc.

And how you choose to deal with the mismatch between actor motion and user motion...

is a matter of how well you understand the causes of motion sickness.

Anyway, I'm out. Peeaceee

[mighty carbon]

is someone watching OC3 stream ?

looks like tracking of Touch is horrible :/

[spiral zephyr]

first psvr now oculus?

[mighty carbon]

wtf?! Wireless Rift!!!

[spiral zephyr]

link§§

pls

[mighty carbon]

https://www.facebook.com/oculusvr/

[spiral zephyr]

found a yt link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41wCozkD4l0

to the stream

i didnt wanna be on facebook 😉

wireless headset is pretty big if use/charge cycle is good

[clever sky]

Well fuck.

Oculus you tempting motherfuckers.

[mighty carbon]

so, does it need PC or is it a self-contained unit ?

(missed that part)

[spiral zephyr]

...it's already just 5% of revenue to epic...they sell it like its facebook being cool

[clever sky]

True.

I was thinking like... ooh, I don't have to pay SteamVR cut.

But no, I still have to pay oculus their 30% cut!

[mighty carbon]

greedy much ?

[spiral zephyr]

30?

jeez

[mighty carbon]

you have to pay Steam 30%

[clever sky]

Isn't it? I thought it was the same as Steam

[bitter wolf]

Steam takes 30%, so does Apple.

[spiral zephyr]

probably

[mighty carbon]

so, 35% (Epic + Oculus) is a very good deal

[spiral zephyr]

it makes sense, i dont know other easy channels for shoppers

[mighty carbon]

publisher will take 60 - 80%

[bitter wolf]

Epic's 5% is only after you make $5k/year

On the project, otherwise it is free.

[spiral zephyr]

ya but publisher can force your thing on millions

[mighty carbon]

nope

[spiral zephyr]

good or not

[mighty carbon]

they sure have a better chance with their PR power, but it's still not guaranteed

so whether it make millions and you get only 20% or makes less and you get 65% (and keep your IP / freedom )

[spiral zephyr]

if i had a mediocre product I'd happily give 80% because its versus no sales

[mighty carbon]

don't make mediocre products

[spiral zephyr]

myt philosophy is make something great and the pr does itself

[mighty carbon]

market is full of that shit

not true

[spiral zephyr]

i wanna do cool stuff that doesnt exist

[mighty carbon]

it used to be that way

[spiral zephyr]

i'm not up to date

[mighty carbon]

nowadays you can make a diamond and it will get lost due to market saturation

VR is a good market right now

and you have to be lean to make money

so going with publisher will get you nothing (also not sure there are any publishers on VR right now)

[spiral zephyr]

it's getting manageable for 1 person to make something too with all the tools maturing

i'm gonna do a vive entry to epic mega jam if its allowed

[clever sky]

Hmmm... Liking the stuff that Oculus is building...

Good way of differentiating themselves from Steam

Because right now Oculus Home is total shit 😛

[mighty carbon]

as long as Epic don't drag their feet and integrate all that new stuff timely

[clever sky]

Hopefully Valve counters with a similar 'avatar passport' system

Kinda poop if I can only use that stuff for Oculus.

[spiral zephyr]

is that a mii?

[mighty carbon]

why so much hate for Oculus ?

too bad Gear VR got nothing new 😦

[clever sky]

Oh shit...

ASW is pretty boss sounding.

[mighty carbon]

yeh

[clever sky]

Comeon Valve, do this too!

[mighty carbon]

looks like they lowered min specs too

[clever sky]

Yeah, because ASW basically allows the game to run at 45fps natively.

Then interpolate up to 90fps. Kinda like how Sony is doing it

60 to 120

[mighty carbon]

wow, $500 Rift-ready PCs o.O

[clever sky]

Did palmer show up at the start?

I wonder if he'll be turning up after his kerfuffle 😛

What... why do you need 3 sensors for roomscale? D:

[mighty carbon]

for better coverage ? (since it's a difference tech)

Arktika looks cool

Lone Echo looks bad ass too

[clever sky]

Nice.

Yeah agreed.

Gravity the movie in VR!

[mighty carbon]

that's it, I want Rift 😃

[clever sky]

Haha... Gotta admit, that Oculus money buying some pretty decent exclusives.

[mighty carbon]

it seems to be a better platform in general

[clever sky]

It's not right now.

It's woefully lacking right now.

[mighty carbon]

how ?

[clever sky]

Well for starters, you have a friends list right?

You can't do anything with them other than see them online!

[mighty carbon]

yeah, but I don't care for it

I have one on Steam and I rarely use it

[clever sky]

Whether or not you use it isn't really the point. Point is the functionality is lacking.

Also SteamVR has more customization to it, which is nice.

Point is... I don't expect either company to stand still with their platforms.

Which is great for VR in the end really. Oculus showing some sweet stuff in this conference.

Expecting a strong counter from Valve!

[mighty carbon]

I wonder what Oculus Launch Pad is

[clever sky]

Sounds like an incubator for VR content

developer incubator program

[mighty carbon]

interesting

man, pretty upsetting that Gear VR got nothing going for it 😦

[zinc violet]

https://www.epicgames.com/roborecall/

[clever sky]

There you go. Gear VR stuff.

[zinc violet]

also, seems to be oculus touch exclusive

kinda odd call when Sweeney seems to be pretty vocal about locking down into platforms

[mighty carbon]

Tencent owns almost half of Epic

[wintry escarp]

theres an oculus vr stream on

[mighty carbon]

so I am guessing XBS controller support is all Gear VR gets :/

[clever sky]

That and a bunch of money to throw at devs

Go apply for some of that cash man.

[mighty carbon]

I'll try, but somehow I doubt I'll get any

judging by who gets Epic's fund money gotta be out there, active in the Jams and stuff

so I am sure Oculus isn't gonna just give money to some random indie dev

but it's good to know there are millions of devices out there

[clever sky]

Kinda liking that sing space.

Anyway. I'm whacked. Tired as shit because I watched OC3 instead of going to sleep when I said I would.

ciao

[mighty carbon]

cya

[wintry escarp]

oculus missed a trick

they should make gearvr/rift games sellable anywhere, but if its not on their store it adds a splash advertising oculus

[mighty carbon]

lol

did you miss the part where if you sell UE4 based games on Oculus, Oculus will pay royalties to Epic ?

[sharp swan]

Providing they let your game on the store

[mighty carbon]

yeah

better get on Oculus Store than on Steam from PR perspective

really disappointed with Gear VR not getting anything 😦

[sharp swan]

I guess for VR visibility the Oculus store has the edge there for now. However the Store misses one key component which is those without VR who have had no reason to download Oculus Store. There are more of them on steam than own Rifts so enticing them to buy the hardware can be the deciding factor eventually.

[mighty carbon]

https://www.oculus.com/experiences/rift/

no need to download anything

[sharp swan]

people load steam when windows starts up tho. They would have to go out of their way for that page 😃

[mighty carbon]

why would you even bother checking what they sell if you have no VR ?

[sharp swan]

thats my point

with steam its in your face even with no VR

[mighty carbon]

I don't have Rift/Vive, so I don't bother checking Steam or O-Store

and when I use Gear VR, I browse there

no it's not

Steam is polluted

nothing any longer in my face

[wintry escarp]

sooculus will pay epic their 5% from the 30% they take?

[mighty carbon]

eeh, no

you'd pay 30% to Oculus, 5% to Epic

with that deal you would only pay 30% to Oculus

or I guess 25% to Oculus and 5% to Epic

either way, same crap

you get more profit either way

[wintry escarp]

yes, so you pay oculus 30% and they pay epic their 5%

still leaves the main problem, if they don't like your game youre screwed on distribution

all that's left is that 3rd party vr store no-ones ever heard of

[wicked oak]

day 1 of Barcelona Games World

huge success with DWVR

[mighty carbon]

make games they like

congrats @wicked oak

did you see OC3 keynote ?

[wicked oak]

nope

but im reading the news

wireless all in one oculus

touch in december (wich is fucking GREAT for me)

the 5% thing

im not kidding, my game can be a launch title

perfectly

that would give me 2months to dev the game

wich is possible

after all, i got 2 maps done at the highest quality, and other 3 are meh, but they are going to be improved

so its basically making all maps work, and extra NPC enemies

also, holy shiet async POSITional timewarp

i smell Carmack magic

[wintry escarp]

wireless coming, or wireless within 5 years?

[wicked oak]

seems more of an "all in one" oculus

with integrated processing on it

and inside out camera tracking

more carmackmagic

this time confirmed

[mighty carbon]

yeah, would be sweet

too bad Gear VR evolution has ended

[wintry escarp]

where you see that?

[wicked oak]

reddit

also, i was talking to some higher up tech guy from Sony

[wintry escarp]

I only caught last 30-40 mins

[wicked oak]

good thing that i have good english

(im spanish)

reading more newss..

whoa, VR optimizations means gtx960 as minimum?

[mighty carbon]

$499 Rift-ready PCs

[wicked oak]

yup

damn, oculus has been busy

they have been dropping bombs one after another

[wintry escarp]

does that mean my gtx780 is now considered enough for VR?

[wicked oak]

now steamVr is so bad compared to oculus, so behind

yes

ah

no

you need that 9xx architecture

[wintry escarp]

bah, screw them

[wicked oak]

well, its now confirmed all oculus games do run far better than the same game on SteamVr api

ive been saying it for a while, that oculus software is miles ahead of steamvr software

now its even more

[wintry escarp]

my 780 is a lot faster than a 960

[wicked oak]

we are talking about hardware optimization here

so it might, but probably not

it doesnt run vr already?

it should, i think

but seriously, async positional timewarp

while vive has no timewarp at all

[wintry escarp]

no idea, only vr I have is cardboard

[wicked oak]

just the reprojection thing

wich isnt as good as it halves fps

[mighty carbon]

wants Rift + new PC

[wintry escarp]

my pc is fine except for the gpu

and my gpu is fine

[wicked oak]

Iribe says "spacewarp" allows games to run at an internal 45 frames per second, while still providing a smooth 90 frames per second to the headset.

from arstechnica

[wintry escarp]

so you can now target 45fps and it will still play smooth now?

[wicked oak]

yes

in vive you also could

with reprojection

but its shit

this one is like a WAY beefed up vrseion of this

[wintry escarp]

does rift still work right if you use cable extenders?

[mighty carbon]

in a few years you won't need cables

They are working on standalone Rift

[wintry escarp]

I don't know he mentioned wifi, lifi is supposed to be much faster

+why

[mighty carbon]

it's a self-contained unit

no wifi needed, unless just to download games/apps

[wintry escarp]

nah he said they want to cut the wires but still use the power of the pc

obvious solution there is wifi for talking to pc, and lifi to send picture to HMD

[mighty carbon]

https://twitter.com/oculus/status/784083037940133888

It says there "We're working on a standalone #VR experience."

usually "standalone" stands for just one unit, nothing else is required

but even if it's wireless, it's still amazing

[wintry escarp]

that's mobile

standalone would be pc powering all the grunt work, but not attached

[sharp swan]

New pictures of the Oculus Standalone released !

http://images.pocketgamer.co.uk/FCKEditorFiles//View-Master-classic-01.jpg

[wintry escarp]

standalone....with a pc in a backpack..."what? you can stand"

is that epic deal rift only, or gearvr as well

oculus store, should be both

[mighty carbon]

hopefully it's both

but I don't think sales for Gear VR apps are great

so I don't even think an average game hits limits where 5% needs to be paid

[fleet veldt]

When is Carmack keynote?

[wintry escarp]

I didn't know there was one, I thought it was ll done

[fleet veldt]

Oh its tomorrow at 1:30pm PT

[granite jacinth]

Standalone should have always been the direction imho

Then you can call VR a platform

[fresh laurel]

^

[distant nest]

Can't wait for the standalone experience tech to trickle down to my home theater so I can get rid of all these stupid HDMIs

[still marsh]

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/JesseSchell/20150626/247113/Making_Great_VR_Six_Lessons_Learned_From_I_Expect_You_To_Die.php?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Good article.

[dry fjord]

damn that IS a good article

I didn't know about the acceleration thing

[silk lodge]

I knew all about the acceleration thing!

[dry fjord]

just one more reason why you're the better version of me

[silk lodge]

also, I have a sail boat.

@dry fjord what game or stuff are you making?

[dry fjord]

man I don't make games

I never get around to it

I just make effects and plugins

[silk lodge]

neat!

[dry fjord]

one day I'll quit my jerb and make a game

and it will be the happiest time of my life

until then

[silk lodge]

I tried

[dry fjord]

how did it go?

[silk lodge]

but then uh

people like it and wanted me to make vr stuff for them

[dry fjord]

that seems like a nice career

[silk lodge]

but I JUST WANNA MAKE MY GAME

[dry fjord]

haha

pay the bills first!

[silk lodge]

I was banking on an undersaturated vr market for the first year or two

but there are a lot of decent games out there

[dry fjord]

42 pages of steam vr games

maybe half a page of good ones

go for quality, word of a good VR game gets around fast

[silk lodge]

yeah

it's better to be the best than just to be in the few

[dry fjord]

yeah

[silk lodge]

I've shown about 500 people vr

and it's been a blast

[dry fjord]

it is!

I would love to just evangelise VR and make good experiences and new tech and get paid for it somehow

with no specific goal, just "go make cool shit that benefits everyone"

[silk lodge]

well, demo vr to every business you can 😃

it'll click at some point

[dry fjord]

haha

will do!

this is how my demos usually go:

http://i.imgur.com/2XGX7FI.mp4

[silk lodge]

that's so realistic!

[wintry escarp]

see that little remote that comes with the rift, is it visible and usable inside the vr as a sword etc?

[silk lodge]

I think it's only a button

not a motion controller

perhaps you were thinking of a razer hydra

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOHRsTWupNk

[dry fjord]

someone on reddit just gave me a great idea on how to use the kinect skeleton properly

hide it, set up another skeleton and use the vive and the kinect as IK targets

rather than post-fixing everything like I am now

then I can do constraints and delta limits and stuff and it'll look flawless

woo

I need to go home and try it

[clever sky]

@silk lodge @dry fjord What acceleration thing?

The vestibular system?

[silk lodge]

accelleration is perceptable in the human motion sensory system

[clever sky]

Yeah, that's right. And velocity isn't!

It's actually why our vestibular system is both a secondary source of balance and orientation

and why techniques like redirection work!

[silk lodge]

velocity doesn't do anything

[clever sky]

Because it's imprecise!

[silk lodge]

we're moving at 10.4 bajillion units per second

you cannot tell

accelleration is change

turning is accelleration

[clever sky]

Yes. It's a 'force detector'

And forces only apply to change the velocity... or acceleration as we call it.

Dammit.

The best thing that Oculus showed last night was space warp

need that shit for all VR D:

Dammit Carmack! Why couldn't you have been a VR agnostic god?? 😛

[silk lodge]

lol

space warp doesn't solve all problems

but then again, neither does titan xp sli

😄

[clever sky]

45fps as the new target frame rate is an amazing thing

[dry fjord]

yeah I'd like that

[clever sky]

Totally running Unreal editor VR preview through Oculus once I get those touch controllers.

[dry fjord]

just presume valve will eventually implement the same thing

bit sad that they haven't on an otherwise good track record

[clever sky]

Hope so antidamage. Need parity between the big players.

[dry fjord]

carmack has always been brand agnostic in the past

it's annoying that he's just hanging out at oculus these days

but maybe valve are to blame there

[clever sky]

Why's that?

[dry fjord]

which part?

[clever sky]

'Maybe valve are to blame'

[dry fjord]

just wondering and not immediately assuming carmack decided to exclude a platform from his efforts

he never leant particularly towards nvidia or AMD in the past

[clever sky]

Well... to be fair, he hasn't worked at one of the major hardware vendors in the past either 😛

[dry fjord]

yeah

[clever sky]

Carmack and Oculus are intimately tied together. Even before he went over to them.

I'd say the VR revolution was really kickstarted by him!

[dry fjord]

we're one of the companies that carmack likes to drop little "go do this" hints to

[clever sky]

Although Palmer luckey gets the 'founder' credit

[dry fjord]

tends to be part of a bigger picture

don't talk to me about luckey

[clever sky]

All Palmer did was stick some lens onto a cell phone screen.

[dry fjord]

😉

[mighty carbon]

Carmack was agnostic? When? His engines always ran on Nvidia better than on AMD.

Plus he admitted that making them GPL was a bad thing.

[dry fjord]

because nvidia did what he wanted

[clever sky]

I'd like to paid 700 mil for putting lens on a cell phone screen and into a box 😛

[dry fjord]

he would do these detailed posts describing the pros and cons of each generation and how they'd diverged from what he thought they should do. AMD was always the worst offender.

[clever sky]

Because Carmack did the rest... wrote the lens warp functionality, integrated the motion trackers

[mighty carbon]

I guess Oculus provides him with what he wants and he now sees a value in walled garden platform 😉

[dry fjord]

exactly

and valve possibly aren't listening to him on the timewarp thing

[clever sky]

Yeah. Unfortunately Valve and Oculus are no friends.

[dry fjord]

either that or maybe they think it's just a temporary solution to a problem that will go away, although I can't see how that'd be the case

[clever sky]

Frame rate will always be an issue.

[mighty carbon]

Valve lost a lot of scientist to Oculus and I bet money is only part of the issue

[dry fjord]

well they are, valve gave oculus a good hard look at how to build a headset 😉

[clever sky]

So tech that can provide high quality interpolation will always be applicable.

[dry fjord]

yeah, I agree

what about zenimax? trying to sue carmack and oculus

has that been sorted out yet?

[clever sky]

Nope!

[mighty carbon]

well, those guys want the money 😛

[dry fjord]

wankers

[clever sky]

Zenimax has super beef with Oculus too

[dry fjord]

zenimax think palmer stole valve's technology from zenimax to use on oculus

[mighty carbon]

while I love new Doom, Wolf and Dishonored, I hope they get nowhere with that lawsuit

[clever sky]

I mean... from their perspective, the work that John did in the 2012 quakecon presentation (the event that kicked off this whole thing) was theirs.

[dry fjord]

they'll probably happily settle now facebook is involved

[clever sky]

But then they fucked up by not giving John room to scratch his VR itch.

[dry fjord]

yeah

[mighty carbon]

If Zenimax had brains they would have given Carmack what he wanted

[dry fjord]

well just before vr carmack became obsessed with mobile gaming

he was effectively saying that he was never going to develop another desktop game or engine

[mighty carbon]

but they are so hardheaded :/

[dry fjord]

I think it was basically time for him to move on

we're lucky he chose VR

[clever sky]

Haha... John on mobile only... A great loss for the world only the geeky would care about 😛

[dry fjord]

they'd be some fine mobile tech demos just waiting for a game to be made around them

[mighty carbon]

no one likes AAA dev cycles 😉

[clever sky]

Fuck AAA dev.

cycles.

[mighty carbon]

so mobile was naturally a breath of fresh air

[dry fjord]

haha yes

[clever sky]

Never experienced it myself. But I've never heard anything good about that shit!

[dry fjord]

I like to think fallout shelter came from some of his efforts

[mighty carbon]

but he did make idTech 5 😉

and was going for id Tech 6

good thing he didn't

[dry fjord]

he had public plans all the way up to id tech 7

[mighty carbon]

I like new idTech 6

[dry fjord]

no voxels though

[mighty carbon]

meh

[clever sky]

Yeah... was going to say.

[dry fjord]

tech 6 was meant to be partially voxelised and tech 7 fully voxelised

[clever sky]

The voxel stuff looked intriguing.

[mighty carbon]

it runs on my old PC!

[dry fjord]

I think everyone realised that voxels are not the best solution to the problem

[mighty carbon]

lean and mean engine, and beautiful too.. I wish UE4 was that performant

[clever sky]

The best solution is some sort of hybridized system that takes the best of both worlds.

[dry fjord]

not everything-as-voxels anyway

yeah, and that's always the answer

the best solution takes what it needs

[clever sky]

😛 easier said than done though. hahaha

[dry fjord]

now we have voxellised lighting and GI

[mighty carbon]

which aren't in the stock engine and are slow

[clever sky]

Also voxellized deformation and destruction

[dry fjord]

voxellised GI is coming and it's relatively quick. runs on PS4.

[mighty carbon]

in 4.14 ?

[silk lodge]

vxgi is totally in unreal in some branches

[dry fjord]

not sure when

[silk lodge]

has anybody used it with vr?

[dry fjord]

vxgi, that's the one

not I

[mighty carbon]

that's only in Nvidia branch afaik

[clever sky]

Ooh. Anyone got capsule shadows working in VR?

[dry fjord]

that's fine fuck AMD

[clever sky]

Capsule shadow the everything.

[dry fjord]

oh good idea

I need to try that too

my bunny casts weird minecraft block looking shadows

[mighty carbon]

@silk lodge I don't think real-time GI is fast enough for VR

[silk lodge]

@mighty carbon challenge accepted!

[mighty carbon]

any real-time GI for that matter

[silk lodge]

does it run on alternate gpus?

[dry fjord]

I wonder if realtime GI is even perceptible in VR

as opposed to baked

stuff doesn't move around in VR a lot

[clever sky]

Sure it would be. You can see shadows in shadows in GI

[dry fjord]

lenticular glare would almost disguise it

oh true

[mighty carbon]

I think real-time GI for VR is a way off.. I don't think people are gonna cry about it just yet - VR can be very enjoyable with baked GI 😃

[silk lodge]

I'll hafta give it at ry

I have a game htat would benefit from explosion illumination

[mighty carbon]

I think animations, physics and AI in VR is the thing

not fancy lighting

[dry fjord]

it's all about the jumpscare

[silk lodge]

fancy lighting does look nice though!

but let's be honest, it's mostly easier to bake

EVERYTHING

[clever sky]

So. Who wants to make a full motion first person diablo/roguelike for VR?

Coz that's where I wanna get my stuff to! 😛

[dry fjord]

mememememem me ME

I want to use gestures and screaming to cast balls of flaming death at my enemies and maybe unsuspecting party members

[clever sky]

Yes! We should team up tentatively

after I get this locomotion stuff sorted anyway 😛

[dry fjord]

I have a lot on my plate but I'll contribute however I can

haha cool

[clever sky]

Because that locomotion will form the basis of any experience I create.

Let's you move around VE space in a relatively presence enhancing manner.

As opposed to blink teleport.

Love you Vanishing Realms, but it feels so v1.0!

[silk lodge]

@clever sky me!

@clever sky but I also want um pvp e-sports!

and teleporting

10 different ways fo teleport

or more

[dry fjord]

and flying without acceleration

[clever sky]

I'll tell you what...

teleportation feels more special when it's limited.

And has other movement systems to provide context!

Then it's actually like - ooh, I can teleport!

[silk lodge]

I like teleporting a ton

[dry fjord]

roguelikes are good because mages teleport a limited distance all the time

[silk lodge]

working on it in irl

[dry fjord]

haha

[clever sky]

haha 😛

[silk lodge]

there are a few people who can do it

but they're hard to reach 😄

[clever sky]

Those aren't people! They're just floaters in your eye!

[silk lodge]

most people keep really quiet about things they'd be ridiculed about -- like being able to sometimes teleport

[clever sky]

What you said just made me think of a neat idea for a fictional universe.

Sometimes heroes!

their powers switch on randomly and they don't know when!

[dry fjord]

I don't think anyone sometimes teleports or they'd rule the world

or

maybe they already do

[silk lodge]

hmm

or maybe they're nice

[dry fjord]

they haven't solved poverty

I'd say they're cunts

[silk lodge]

how would you solve poverty with teleporting?

[dry fjord]

kill the rich

[silk lodge]

then all the people would be poor

and batman is rich. that'd put you at odds with the batguy himself

[dry fjord]

could the batman kill a teleporter?

[clever sky]

@dry fjord looking at the hands on the Vive/kinect rig...

makes me realize why those touch controllers will be cool!

They've got 'gesture' sensors

[dry fjord]

oh nice

you can do gesture sensing in software too though

[clever sky]

So the hands can look more natural when idle.

Yeah. Right now, the hand is just open when not grasping.

Looks huge and monkey like!

[dry fjord]

I'm actually interested in trying a setup where you only use one motion controller and the other is free to do gestures

since the kinect can sense an open/closed hand

I think that would be more natural for casting firey balls of teamkilling death like what I want to do

controller sword, other hand magic

[clever sky]

Ah yeah.

[dry fjord]

summon a shield, etc

[clever sky]

What kinda hand magic?

[dry fjord]

not that kind

[clever sky]

Like Naruto style? 😛

hahaha

[dry fjord]

oh I dunno

[silk lodge]

now I Want to make a shield frame for a vive controller

[dry fjord]

noo the sheild is magical

controllers really need a belt mount though

for sheathing

[silk lodge]

that'd be rad

when I was doing leap / vive tests, I would like a holster

[clever sky]

But I play in the nude! How will I sheathe my controllers?!

doesn't actually play in the nude

[dry fjord]

the kinect says you have an extra leg

[clever sky]

Tell you what... I'm glad Oculus gave us kickstarters a free rift 😛

Difficult to justify buying one otherwise.

But damn they money hatted themselves some nice looking games.

Question:

What's an easy way to snap to verts in unreal editor

[silk lodge]

lol

[clever sky]

I want to lego a map pack together

but the way the editor works makes it crap

[silk lodge]

figure out what grid it snaps with?

[clever sky]

What's that mean? 😛

You mean position the modules onto the grid lines and just keep snap lock on?

That seems less efficient than snapping to vert D:

[silk lodge]

well, they should have been designed to snap to a grid

and in that case, it's better than vert snapping

but I don't think vert snapping is in unreal

you can do face snapping

[clever sky]

No. It's there.

It just sucks.

What is it... hit P for pivot, then hold V with mouse over the vert to change pivot point

or something like that. Anyway its imprecise and you have to do it every single time.

[dry fjord]

there's surface snap

it pays attention to vertices

its designed to be used for snapping actors INSTEAD of the grid

it's the icon that looks nothing like surface snap

[clever sky]

That sounds really helpful.

Except for that last line.

[dry fjord]

it's to the right of the world icon

additional vertex snap settings are available under some menus too I think

[clever sky]

Hmmm

Well it snaps to surface

But doesn't quite let me lay like a road plate side by side easily

[dry fjord]

hmm

google the vertex snap settings

I dunno where they are

it's meant to be used with modular actors with matching vertices at the corners

[clever sky]

Ah ha!

I kinda figured it out

You hold V

while moving

and the origin of the actor you've selected

will snap to a vertex in the world that you're pointing at.

Which is... less versatile then I need it to be D:

Ok yeah.

So middle mouse on the white pivot point lets you move the pivot around.

The fun part (not actually fun part) is that you'd think it'd be easy to middle mouse and hold V to snap the pivot to a vertex on the mesh.

Nope. It's only snapping to a few of verticies in the mesh (towards the middle). Wwwwhhhyyyyyyy

[dry fjord]

aaah

nice!

oh you can move the origin? is it permanent?

[clever sky]

Nope.

It's per move.

[dry fjord]

cool

have to try it

[clever sky]

What I'd really like is for it to stick... and a button to return to default.

Honestly... would probably have to write a construction script for that kinda thing.

Oh ok. You can change it permanently.

Right click on the shape and choose pivot - set as pivot offset.

Not exactly what I wanted though... still useful.

[dry fjord]

yeah it used to

I guess some users found that annoying

needs to be a HUD setting in the viewport

give it an icon of a fruit or an abstract concept like "feeling cold", something in line with the other icons

[clever sky]

Haha

[clever sky]

No palm palm @ OC3 keynote

You dun goofed palmer!

[silk lodge]

sounds like facebook didn't like how dank the memes were

[clever sky]

Hahah

[dry fjord]

haha

[clever sky]

My new cable arrived.

It's the old cable. D:

Hmmm... ASW applies to steam titles too if you force the setting in registry 😮

Not sure if it's Rift only or not.

[dry fjord]

ASW?

[clever sky]

space warp

atemporal space warp

[dry fjord]

ah right

probably is rift only, it'll be in the driver

[clever sky]

That's a fair call.

[mighty carbon]

ASW is Rift only, Nvidia only

[wintry escarp]

is there a technical reason for being NVidia only?

[clever sky]

No. AMD is releasing ASW support too. They just haven't quite done it yet.

[snow raft]

so this royalty free Oculus dealy, does that count for GearVR since its Oculus Store too?

[clever sky]

No clue, but my guess is yes.

I mean, they're still pushing GearVR as a platform in terms of funding developers.

[snow raft]

yeah thats what I was thinkin, its just my starting point atm, I figure theres abit more market there too atm

shame bout the Note 7 fiasco tho

[clever sky]

But to be sure, it's not royalty free from Oculus.

It's oculus pays for your unreal licensing royalty.

The difference is about 25%

[snow raft]

ahh so I still pay Oculus publishing fee?

[clever sky]

i.e. Oculus store front like Steam VR charges 30%. Unreal engine charges 5%. Oculus will take 5% from their 30 to pay Unreal.

[snow raft]

yup gotcha, nice little gotya on that one but still, its not that bad. Id prefer on Google cuz its free but I suppose you take what you can get

[clever sky]

Yeah, I had a "wwoooo fuck" reaction when I first heard it during the live stream

[snow raft]

google is filled full of shite atleast oculus does have that exclusivity atm

[clever sky]

Then I realized... oh wait... ok.

Google's VR play store will fill up with shit as quickly as their mobile play store 😛

[snow raft]

Im guessing that brings it in cheaper than the Vive though

[clever sky]

Gonna be a tough market to crack into in a couple years.

Yeah... it's basically an incentive for VR devs to continue making stuff available on the Oculus storefront.

unreal VR devs

Dunno why they're snubbing Unity, but I don't particularly care too much about that right now 😛

[snow raft]

knowing Apple they'll just release VR googles that look like glasses frames with no lenses to appeal to the hipsters

[clever sky]

Haha. The new Apple 'Virtual-VirtualReality' Glasses.

[snow raft]

look guys we removed the screen "woo innovation, throws wallet"

you have to believe it to see it 😛

[clever sky]

Nah. I'm expecting some tight shit from Apple once they finally get to announcing their HMD.

Need them in the game to help push VR along.

[snow raft]

well both Nvidia and Apple seem uninterested

[clever sky]

Nvidia seem uinterested?

[snow raft]

yeah they are in a position where they dont need a HMD

[clever sky]

That's not true at all. Nvidia are very interested in VR.

And have invested significantly in VR stuff. They're just not in the business of making HMDs 😛

[snow raft]

http://www.geek.com/tech/nvidia-virtual-reality-will-take-another-20-years-to-fix-1656827/

well this doesnt seem optimistic is all 😃

all very solid points tbh

[clever sky]

Interesting stuff. But that kinda runs contrary to the stuff they've done already!

To be sure, VR as computing paradigm would work well with Nvidia

given that VR would drive GPU adoption even faster.

[snow raft]

well if it sells their graphics cards its a small marketing cost really, Im not expecting em to enter the headset market but it would be awesome if they did

I want a gsync HMD

[clever sky]

Nah... their home consumer devices are pretty middling stuff. e.g. Nvidia shield.

[snow raft]

nvidia shield for ya face

[clever sky]

Technically decent. But application and design is meh

They're better with the under the hood tech.

[snow raft]

nvidia shield, nvidia sword, nvidia gauntlets, nvidia helm 😛

[clever sky]

Haha.

Nvidia cod piece.

[snow raft]

lol comes with liquid cooling

bwahaha Im so bad

[clever sky]

😛

hahaha

[snow raft]

truth be told I wasnt expecting it to sound that bad before I hit enter

[clever sky]

it's cool. I enjoy bawdry humor

[snow raft]

I think if they keep going with tegra and stuff they should be able to really push the VR market but its probably just not cost effective for em

someones already forking out $1000 on graphics cards (atleast hear they are) its a hard sell to get em to buy maybe 2 and an expensive headset and controllers

[clever sky]

Nah. $1000 graphics cards are the highest end stuff. People that buy that kind of stuff are exactly the kind that would also be interested in buying $1000 HMDs to give them the best experience.

Unless you mean you're from a place where low to mid end stuff is marked up really badly

like brazil or something.

[snow raft]

if they can bundle it for an upsell itd work, especially if you can try to displace those expensive monitors abit

people fork out $2000+ easy for a 144hz monitor of decent size

[clever sky]

Yeah... I think by the time we hit 4k VR displays, they'll start becoming useful monitor replacements.

Like text will be quite legible at that size.

[snow raft]

they might be willing to get a cheaper monitor and VR instead of just the expensive monitor

[clever sky]

Depending on how comfortable it is to wear the HMD

If they're still as big as they are now, they're going to be used for VR only experiences.

[snow raft]

I just think in terms of fidelity no one is gonna beat Nvidia, you might get a good combo like Samsung/Nvidia but they'll be at that top spot for awhile. I mean Scorpio is being hyped but I really dont see AMD coming from no where since their gear runs hot and chews watts

[clever sky]

But if they're like... a pair of snow goggles in weight... I think more people would be happy to wear that for a bit.

top spot for what? GPUs?

They don't make monitors you know?

[snow raft]

GPUs and displays, gsync tech is nvidias

[clever sky]

yeah, but that's a chip that monitor makers buy from Nvidia.

[snow raft]

AMD dont make displays either 😃

[clever sky]

Yes, that's correct!

[snow raft]

if Nvidia make something proprietary I think they can 1 up AMD but they got the whole MS relationship

no one really talks fidelity anymore only FPS

VR it makes a hell of a difference though when your face is right next to the display

oh well Im just gonna sit back with my wireless GearVR and watch the wires unravel 😛

[clever sky]

Well, we've basically hit a wall with resolution.

That wall been human perception.

The sort of distances we sit at and use displays and devices from...

you can't actually get them to look much sharper then they already are! So you have to make the screens larger.

Which comes with a host of its own problems. Like me on my 21:9 3440x1440 screen.

With a bunch of content that's unsupported!

But VR... is a good way to drive forward the continue thirst for resolution.

[snow raft]

thats what res I run at but I only game on 1 screen, you must have ultrawide

[clever sky]

Thinking about it... I think Nvidia means not that VR will only be ready in 20 years... but that there'll be 20 years more advancement with VR.

[snow raft]

one thing about VR that kinda gets my back up is none of the interfaces work with it, you have to go into this special VR mode, its like why cant I use my normal android phone in VR space or somethin

[clever sky]

i.e. we can still get sharper screens for VR, still higher frame rates, etc.

More fidelity, prettier pictures, before we start hitting a plateau in how effective visuals will make VR look.

[snow raft]

yeah 20yrs is when it'll reach the same point of the GPU probably

[clever sky]

I thought that Google Daydream will let you use android apps in VR?

like a web browser in a big window?

[snow raft]

Daydream should be a step in the right direction I hope, I can use the web in Oculus store

but its not the same thing as native OS support

[clever sky]

I mean you can do that with Rift and Vive now through 3rd party software

Big Screen and VR Desktop thingy

[snow raft]

believe it or not Steam OS is best positioned for a VR OS 😛

[clever sky]

It's a really basic VR OS.

I think... in the future, what you'd really want is something halfway between a VR OS and the metaverse.

Like people make 'apps', and they just work in VR space. Like a calculator app... that's just a calculator on your virtual desktop.

[snow raft]

I just find it odd they cant display the OS as like a render target on a billboard similar to what UE is doing with the VR editor

[clever sky]

A music player... that's just like a radio deck in your virtual space.

Photoshop? A bunch of tools and equipment that lets you do photoshop stuff.

[snow raft]

lol trip over the palette and spill photoshop all over your other apps

[clever sky]

Haha. Maybe with less real world inconvenience. And more VR magic.

[snow raft]

ideally the tools would become a layer over the top as different ways to interact

[clever sky]

But you know what I mean? instead of going into a bunch of different environments

[snow raft]

similar to those old windows toys thing with the minigun

[clever sky]

They're all just apps that coexist in the same space.

Like our desktop.

[snow raft]

get upset at your painting in photoshop, no worries, pull out the minigun and blast it to bits

then take out some of the desktop icons too

[clever sky]

But then if we want to go into a seperate virtual space, we can - like running a game or full window 3D appliafction

Haha.

[snow raft]

I just think its kinda silly to be constrained so much inside applications, I get thats how windows used to work but in VR why do we need windows 😮

[clever sky]

We don't!

That's why I'm saying, instead of application windows, photoshop is just tools that exist in your virtual environment

along with your 'calculator app', 'music app', etc.

[snow raft]

see with screens we are on the outside looking in but VR youre in there so you got the right idea it needs to become a space you can use

you can still have abstractions though, searching for a file? pull out a filing cabinet and tell it to find something for ya 😛

[clever sky]

But to evolve computing to that kind of paradigm would take a huge amount of work.

Nah man. You just yell at cortana (who looks like Halo cortana, skinnable of course)

Get my **** files cortana!

and then she produces them from 'thin air'.

[snow raft]

https://youtu.be/0AGHr57qpPk?t=68

just dont ask cortana to smite you 😛

master chief will materialize and draft you into Haloverse

[clever sky]

That's a skeumorphism 😛

the extending file cabinet. Using familiar concepts in the world and replicating them in digital space to reduce the learning required to use it.

[snow raft]

but its still an abstraction isnt it cuz files arnt really paper

[clever sky]

But then Apple went all... we don't need skeumorphisms anymore!

And now my dad is all sad and confused when using his new iphone

[snow raft]

bwahahhaha

lets call everything nodes, its more PC

but how do I know which node is the node I need to node 😮

[clever sky]

This talk is getting me node where!

[snow raft]

you should node better 😃

[clever sky]

😛

[snow raft]

http://www.toonarific.com/pics_root//00003927/widget3.jpg

[wintry escarp]

when is the carmack talk?

[mighty carbon]

1:30 pm PST

[mighty carbon]

Btw, people report that games run so smooth with ASW

so I guess now it's possible to put more details in the world

[wintry escarp]

2 hours from now

[mighty carbon]

are you in CST ?

[wintry escarp]

GMT

19:42 now here

[wintry escarp]

1 hour to go?

[mighty carbon]

yeah

[wintry escarp]

stream is jumpy for me 😦

stream just go down?

[mighty carbon]

Watch on Facebook

I couldn't watch yesterday anywhere except Facebook

I'll watch Carmack's keynote when available offline

[wintry escarp]

I don't see any facebook stream

just links to blogs

[mighty carbon]

Facebook.com/oculusvr

[lucid pecan]

nextvr always stopping after 30sec 😦

same as yesterday. at least twich works now

[mighty carbon]

Hopefully JC spills the beans about GearVR and its future :)

[zinc violet]

http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2016/10/7/13197252/sharp-vr-4k-display-1000-ppi

[mighty carbon]

It's sad that Samsung/Oculus tandem fails to innovate

That's probably why Oculus decided to make a standalone product

[sharp swan]

Watching Carmack do a talk makes me want to find a massive bag of cocaine, snort a line like Tony Montana and try to keep up. I have to google half of what he says.

[wicked oak]

https://i.imgur.com/xA8LLRu.png

that image comes from another talk other year where they pretty much told him to stop and leave

[sharp swan]

yep that

[wicked oak]

the choking thing its from when he choked a journalist to blackout

that video is damn hilarious

[sharp swan]

hah just checked that out. Feels wierd now though because I trained judo and bjj. Feel like a right carmack fanboy now.

extra marks for getting Cung Le in the vid. That guy is brutal.

[wicked oak]

he is talking VR optimization

[bitter wolf]

Nope, he is talking about AR. (Augmented Reality) Basically phones/mobile devices do not have enough power in their CPU/GPU to maintain solid performance.

[granite jacinth]

That is a lie

He is just trying to downplay AR so VR gets more attention

[wicked oak]

if Magic Leap ends up being half as good at it seems, its gonna murder the smartphone market

[silk lodge]

it's hard to match without sliding, moreso if you have laggy rendering

[granite jacinth]

AR can and will rekt VR

[silk lodge]

VR is still good for seeing far

AR won't let you see a blue whale in your apartment

[granite jacinth]

VR will stay niche forever

[wicked oak]

AR is for adding stuff to real world

[silk lodge]

I doubt it

[granite jacinth]

Too much hardware

[wicked oak]

VR is for going into a virtual world

[granite jacinth]

Too much costs

[silk lodge]

forever?

it's cheaper than AR

[wicked oak]

im waiting for SAO style VR

[granite jacinth]

Exacrly

We need SAO

In real life

[sharp swan]

hmmm I get the feeling Starfighter didn't get on the store because we do something Carmack says is a big no-no.

[wicked oak]

haha good luck

we dont know enough about the brain

[granite jacinth]

Otherwise, thoae vr headsets are heavy and cumbersome

And dependent on other tech

[wicked oak]

and if you can edit that, then you can literally rewrite people memories and stuff

they will become slimmer

[silk lodge]

the hololens could be VR

[granite jacinth]

Hololens...

Another out of touch piece of tech

A lot of money has been invested into VR

[wicked oak]

but AR has one HELL of a market

[granite jacinth]

But eventually people will start seeing it for what it really is

[wicked oak]

good AR can wipe out casual laptops, tvs, phones...

[granite jacinth]

AR will be unstopable

[wicked oak]

so we Accel World now?

XD

[silk lodge]

you'll probably eventually just get AR/VR headsets

[granite jacinth]

MR

But sure

[silk lodge]

but there will always be huge amounts of power from dedicated PCs

and wireless links to VR / AR hmds

and you'll always have better experiences driven by powerful computers

[granite jacinth]

MR AR headsets are now better than VR headsets

And will only get better

Just like VR we hope

[wicked oak]

wait, wich ones

[silk lodge]

if phones make it to current vive levels, then pcs will be so far beyond phones, it'll be laughable to go back

[granite jacinth]

Meta

Even Holo

[wicked oak]

hololens FOV is crap

[granite jacinth]

Aye

[wicked oak]

and image quality is also meh

it does havevery interesting tracking and stuff

[granite jacinth]

It isnt the greatest, but for what it can do, it is pretty dope

MetaAR is sexy

Better and cheaper than holo

Hopefully that gets some traction

[wicked oak]

carmack says Opaque backgrounds on VR panels

for text and stuff

[dry fjord]

Nvidia are dead wrong

VR will not take 20 years to fix

[sharp swan]

Hope the boss was watching that. Might have to get him to take a look. We have some things to change :p

[dry fjord]

that's like saying the PS1 isn't good enough for making games

[wintry escarp]

ffs, when will they learn you just give carmack a start time and let him go

[dry fjord]

haha

carmack is a portal into a more creative dimension

just open it and sit back

[wintry escarp]

so the gearvr got this timewarp thing as well?

[dry fjord]

"He could have gone further, pointing out we have no obvious way to get the rest of your body into the experience, or that realistic movement in VR requires other, even more cumbersome devices that cost a small fortune."

Lies, I did full body VR just yesterday

how are nvidia staff so out of touch

[wintry escarp]

NVidia have always been delusional

did anyone notice any speed increase on gearvr with the new updates?

[granite jacinth]

@sharp swan you find something good?

[sharp swan]

umm huh? where and what?

@granite jacinth what did you mean by find something good? Confused ^_^

[granite jacinth]

Carmack talks

[wintry escarp]

awe, no pink gold s7 in stock

[sharp swan]

ahh yeah. TOo much. Feel like a proper noob listening to that. I don't do the art and it was mostly art pipeline stuff but I do listen . The multi-view + Vulkan combo is more my side so that's super interesting. Will have to get into that somewhere down the line.

[granite jacinth]

I see

[wintry escarp]

I had no idea what he was talking about, other than things make it faster

but is multiview and timewarp coming or in gearvr

[sharp swan]

timewarp already is I believe. multi-view is down to unity and unreal support

[wintry escarp]

but gearvr will do it, none of his talk was for rift?

does that mean on gearvr you can now do 30fps but it will try to stay smooth and fast?

[sharp swan]

mostly gearVR orientated but you can apply the same to PC in most cases. You just have more actual wattage to work with processing wise

he said gearVR stuff supports 4k @ 60fps but its context based. You can probably get that for some 360 video and streaming, but would be detrimental in most gaming cases.

he did talk about bumping up their usual 1500 res to 2k textures through various techniques though

[wintry escarp]

I'm surprised he recommended 4x anti aliasing

I don't even use that on desktop

2x should be enough for anyone

[granite jacinth]

Screendoor effect

Glass so close

Text so ew

More AA can't hurt

[wintry escarp]

Samsung should have some sort of diffusion filter to remove screen door

[granite jacinth]

But, everyone's eyes are different

So...m

Ipd thing alone is silly

[sharp swan]

he pretty much said use trilinear filtering and have mipmaps for everything