#virtual-reality
mighty carbon
lol, I know people who are big fans of something and they pitch what they like in a quite exaggerated spectrum ๐
well, if it's $1k and untethered and can render nicer quality than Galaxy S7, then I'd say it's somewhat accessible
fresh laurel
^
fleet veldt
i mean just look where we are today though.. and where we were just 2 years ago
fresh laurel
Totally @fleet veldt
mighty carbon
personally I like to escape into virtual worlds, so AR isn't my thing, unless it's about a virtual anime assistant AI ๐
fresh laurel
@mighty carbon - I am about the social AR. So Board games etc
dry fjord
AR for board games would be amazing
fresh laurel
^
dry fjord
anything multiplayer really
fresh laurel
^
mighty carbon
true
fresh laurel
Top down shooter
dry fjord
eventually VR and AR will merge anyway
fleet veldt
@dry fjord yeah that's the market CastAR is trying to capture i think
dry fjord
hardware-wise that is
neat
given the choice between AR and VR right now i'd go VR because it's more interesting to develop for
fresh laurel
@fleet veldt - The recently got the Disney infinty devs to work on CastAR
dry fjord
AR is getting cool but it's a couple of years behind VR
due to increased technical challenges
fleet veldt
fucking table top board games man. so hot on kickstarter right now. while videogames can't raise squat on kicktarter
fresh laurel
fleet veldt
well *ex disney infinity devs.. there's no tie to disney
fresh laurel
^
mighty carbon
well, that's physical board games. You'd be surprised to find out people would prefer physical to virtual at this point
mentality is not there yet
especially outside of geek circles
fleet veldt
videogames had it's gravytrain era on kickstarter in 2010/11 but there were so many failed promises that people wont touch video game kickstarters today.
fresh laurel
Agreed @fleet veldt
dry fjord
there's a cafe in my town that does board games
as in it's a board games place with a cafe attached
the guy comes and explains the game to you or recommends one
half the time you need an AR tutorial and rules reminder
fresh laurel
ok
Personally speaking - I think AR is the next major platform
Not VR
But ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
dry fjord
they'll merge
fresh laurel
More than likely
dry fjord
once VR becomes wireless and AR becomes a bit cheaper
fresh laurel
Yeah
dry fjord
you'll start getting devices that you won't mind wearing most of the time
fresh laurel
Yep
mighty carbon
from personal experience, 90% people I've met don't play games and while some were blown away by Gear VR (and had money to buy it) didn't care to buy it
dry fjord
that's because, as we've been telling you, not having room scale or motion control is not a very good experience
mighty carbon
that's life outside of geek circle ๐
dry fjord
there's a threshold where it becomes great and engaging and room scale + motion controllers is it
mighty carbon
no, it has nothing to do with room scale
dry fjord
the vive is for ordinary people, but it's not priced that way just yet
and it needs more good content
mighty carbon
it has to do with mentality
mighty carbon
not really.. I am an indie who had a chance in the golden days and didn't manage to capitalize on it :/
dry fjord
well pay attention to what people tell you here. a lot of it isn't just opinion.
dry fjord
I think you're cutting yourself short by focusing only on the gearvr
I couldn't think of a single thing I'd do with the gearvr when that was the only thing I'd tried. it was a bit underwhelming, like you said, the mentality didn't engage
mighty carbon
but again, from experience, folks who are in the industry and surrounded by like-minded people, forget that there is a world of people out there who don't care for VR/AR/video games and there are a lot of those
dry fjord
after using more HMDs and trying more individual setups I started to realise the gearvr is an excellent companion device for mini-experiences that extend from IP on the main devices
well we live in the real world too
we're constantly testing our ideas on non-industry people
mighty carbon
Gear VR has 1M+ install base.. I don't think I am cutting myself short. Plus making multiplatform game requires time, hardware and more that one dev preferably. Don't have any of that at this point.
dry fjord
I can tell you what kind of reaction you'll get from different age and gender demographics and how to target them
the killer user base for VR is kids
they engage instantly with it, they're much more patient, much more involved
and yet a lot of the hardware won't fit their heads properly
mighty carbon
I wonder if it's bad for kids
dry fjord
when you think about all of the opportunities there that kids have time for, you realise that they're the dominant potential users of VR
mighty carbon
younger than 13 yo
worn magnet
It can mess up there vision
dry fjord
if you've never seen an 8 year old using VR then you haven't lived
fresh laurel
TV is garbage
clever sky
Roomscale VR and motion controllers is the future of VR.
dry fjord
it made me want to make a game for kids right there and then
mighty carbon
I am opposed to kids playing video games until in their mid teens
clever sky
But risky market to develop for right now.
dry fjord
@worn magnet do you have a reputable source for that?
nah it's perfect. dad buys a vive because he wants to play with it, has no time for it, gets some games for the kids to get his money's worth
suddenly realises it's amazing with them
mighty carbon
better play outside and read books ๐
worn magnet
Ask any doctor if staring at screens are bad for you. And now we are putting them inches from our face. Of course it's bad
dry fjord
VR could replace dora as a fantastic educational and behavioural learning tool
@worn magnet still sounds like you're making things up
I mean, WHAT ARE BOOKS
fresh laurel
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
dry fjord
surfaces close to your face, that's what.
mighty carbon
TV is in the room. Hard to mix up with reality for young minds (and yet sometimes it happens). VR is definitely not something young minds need.
dry fjord
nah kids learn things fast and adapt fast
there won't be confusion, just engagement
give them some credit
they're like us with more time and energy for new things
mighty carbon
let's say kids range from 3 to 15 yo. What age are you referring to ?
dry fjord
VR has the potential to overcome all of the pitfalls that kids face socially with the internet too
clever sky
If anything, I'd say it's worse if you don't engage them with obvious seperations between different modalities of reality. Then they grow up without a clear understanding of where fantasy stops and reality starts.
dry fjord
I was thinking ages 6 and up
clever sky
i.e. "Oh no, D&D will warp our children's minds!"
worn magnet
I agree with @clever sky
dry fjord
I'm not saying VR is a babysitter
mighty carbon
lol, what?! Kids need to live real life to become sociable. To be able to stand up for themselves and learn how to communicate effectively. VR won't give them that.
dry fjord
it's a fantastic tool though
you do realise you can socialise in VR right...
in fact, you could help with a lot of social disorders
mighty carbon
nothing will replace real life experience
dry fjord
it's not like they won't realise what's a character and who is a person with an avatar
mighty carbon
no one will punch you in the face in VR if you are being stupid. In real life - sure thing. So you learn when to open you smart mouth ๐
clever sky
Dammit. This is why I wanted to write a book about the future of VR ๐
Too much misinformation out there!
mighty carbon
that's why I personally think that maybe 14 - 15 yo is okay age for VR
dry fjord
so kids need to be assaulted to learn?
fresh laurel
huh?
worn magnet
I don't think anyone's saying that
dry fjord
"no one will punch you in the face in VR if you are being stupid."
mighty carbon
I don't know when and where you grew up, but fighting is a part of growing up.
dry fjord
this is his argument why VR is bad for kids
jesus christ dude
I'm going to do some work
back later
worn magnet
You ok? You seem angry
dry fjord
just mortified
clever sky
@dry fjord it's best to realize that history will be shaped regardless of regressive opinions ๐
mighty carbon
sometimes I wonder what Wonderland people grew up in.. I didn't grow up in any ghetto or bad side of town, and we still had fights (one on one).
worn magnet
I did in middle school. But never after that.
mighty carbon
still had to argue with other kids, still had some short tempered fools who couldn't just walk away and had to use their fists to prove they are right, etc. etc.
none of that is in VR
no consequences for your actions
clever sky
@mighty carbon The world the next generation of children grow up in won't be the same as the world you grew up in. New generation, new set of skills required.
fleet veldt
and a new set of regulations on what you can and can't do online
clever sky
This one.
mighty carbon
maybe in some parts of USA... Everywhere else it will be the same
clever sky
Unless you believe that things haven't already changed significantly from when you were in school (unless you're particularly young and just finished).
fleet veldt
yeah.. like the UK? o.O
mighty carbon
oh, things are worse when I was growing up
bullying has been taken on a whole new level
fleet veldt
it's like you say.. in different places and different times it has always been worse.
mighty carbon
in small towns no one gives a damn about regulations. Even in some metro areas they don't.
worn magnet
Take my grandfather for instance. When he grew up in the 1930s all they had was radio. And for a refrigerator to work an ice man delivered a giant block of ice every week. Things are always going to be vastly different between generations.
fleet veldt
but with digital becoming part of everyones lives thats not something they can ignore or hide from
mighty carbon
so for a kid to grow up between VR and harsh reality it will be a disaster
most kids will choose safer VR world
clever sky
Also worth remembering that progress isn't a uniform thing. We live our lives with high end VR, while other people on this planet live doing sustenance agriculture.
mighty carbon
so in VR, no one can bully you, no one can beat you up. Yet in school, it's quite the opposite.
fleet veldt
they can't physcally bully you.. but they sure can emotionally bully you
mighty carbon
I am saying if those regulation kick in, VR will be safer than real life with instabans and premod.
clever sky
@fleet veldt absolutely. Different set of challenges. How to deal with mouthy jerks when you can't sock them in the face.
dry fjord
the main problem with the internet and kids now is people set them loose or they find ways to talk to anyone and everyone. parents who are totally in control over who their kids socialise with in real life have no such control on facebook
by its nature VR will likely be a different story. VR is a direct extension of real life, and only coincidentally the internet.
clever sky
Hmmm... having experienced social VR, I'd have to say it's more like a weird unique combo of both.
dry fjord
and the answer is never to hit someone. that's just stupid. if that's the dynamic controlling our progress forward that's why we're fucked.
clever sky
The convenience of meeting people on the internet, with a lot of social interaction information of real life.
dry fjord
social VR at the moment is things like alt-space
which is not a typical social experience
clever sky
It's kinda like... been able to teleport to a social space, with all that might entail - access to a lot more social spaces, reduced consequence because people don't know you, etc.
dry fjord
exactly. so it's a pretty normal thing to control who can interact with your kids.
mighty carbon
do you have kids?
fleet veldt
i dunno.. if you still have the anonymity there's going to be the same problems we have with social media today and bullying / griefing.
dry fjord
adult social spaces on the internet tend to either be people they know, communities they're a part of or groups like this server
mighty carbon
there is no control over who they interact with in school or after
dry fjord
then you';ve got the second-lifers who are simply looking for an "alternative" experience
which is how alt-space struck me a bit. it was that crowd there.
dry fjord
yes, much like that
clever sky
It's going to be an interesting future with VR. Not all of it will be better. Not all of it will be worse.
dry fjord
the problem isn't that the internet is bad for kids, the problem is that facebook doesn't do a damn thing towards putting in the kind of social boundaries kids have in real life.
clever sky
Like... to create adult spaces, you need to have Id verification.
To have id verification, you need some sort of 'passport' like a facebook account.
... so you get tracked through out VR to a higher and more detailed degree than is currently possible.
Which is simply an extension of the trend that already exists on the internet now.
fleet veldt
i'm going to miss the wild west days of the internet though
as it gets more and more regulated
clever sky
Haha... there'll always be an underground.
fleet veldt
yeah but they'll be called "terrorists"
clever sky
But I think the 'overground' is just getting more legitimate, more regulated, and out resourcing the underground in terms of features and draw.
fleet veldt
one of my favorite memories of the internet is when "Doom" was released.
clever sky
Kinda like Spotify vs Napster and other music piracy services.
fleet veldt
i twas like 3am I downloaded it on a 486.. played it and my jaw just like stuck on the floor for hours
clever sky
Man... you had the internet with a 486. That's pretty much internet ground zero...
fleet veldt
yep i'm 44
dry fjord
I was a kid when doom came out. I went to someone's office and paid $5 to play multiplayer for half a day. it was amazing.
clever sky
I only got it a couple years later with a Pentium.
fleet veldt
been around the block
dry fjord
the next time I had that level of an experience was with the vive
clever sky
Fair call!
clever sky
Ah WoW.
dry fjord
WoW was quite a thing
fleet veldt
and just happened to be taking my second shot at college when the internet stated becoming available so i had access through school.
dry fjord
WoW may be still around but that thing is gone
clever sky
Fond memories of running around Teldrassil during beta.
fleet veldt
for me it was a few years earlier with Everquest... fucking 20 hours a day. sleep 4. then repeat
dry fjord
haha
fleet veldt
me and my roomate
clever sky
Ah, I meant the actual game location, not the server ๐
fleet veldt
yeah. super immersive
dry fjord
vanilla wow was good but BC blew my mind
fleet veldt
my roomate married a girl he met in everquest too
clever sky
Oh man... want that experience for VR again.
dry fjord
me too
clever sky
Crack in my veins.
dry fjord
that's what I'm hoping is coming
fleet veldt
still married after like what 20 years?
dry fjord
good old MMO marriages
clever sky
Nice.
fleet veldt
no i guess more like 15 years
fleet veldt
my parents made me go to "gamblers anonymous" because of my everquest addiction
as it was the closest thing they coudl find.
dry fjord
hahaha
fleet veldt
related to gaming addiciton
dry fjord
little did they know you just have to wait it out
fleet veldt
i seriously was too much into it.. i'm glad i dont' do that anymore heh.. came close to having that same type of problem again with Dota2 but with that t least it's borken up into 30min- 1 hour sessions
dry fjord
I did the WoW addiction thing
clever sky
Actually it was FFXI that did me in.
dry fjord
then I realised I could be putting all that time into game dev
and stopped
wasn't too bad. still miss the old times though.
clever sky
That game was more vicious than WoW from an addiction stand point.
dry fjord
nice
clever sky
Hard as nails at launch.
dry fjord
I didn't know anything could be worse than WoW
clever sky
And no instanced bosses.
fleet veldt
yeah.. any of you play Command and Conquer: Renegade? that was another i spent.. so much time in
clever sky
So you fucking waited around with other people around the world to try flag down world bosses
dry fjord
I'd never really been addicted to a game until WoW
and never will again probably. if I play something I like I can't shake the "I could make this" feeling
clever sky
And killing anything past level 15 (of 75) meant getting into a party.
dry fjord
sounds more like everquest
clever sky
Where you had to wait anywhere between 10 mins to 3 hours to get into one.
dry fjord
damn
clever sky
depending on your class.
Because you stand in the zone shouting - LOOKING FOR PARTY 15 WAR!
fleet veldt
the first everquest versions were seriously brutal. like you'd die and have to spend hours to retrieve your corpse and items, often requireing the help of others.
but those high stakes made the game intense as well.
clever sky
Haha... yeah, FFXI wasn't quite that bad in that regard. But you lost a good chunk of XP. That takes hours to days to grind per level.
fleet veldt
lol fuck i can feel my brain recalling those memories like some kind of heroin user
clever sky
Same man.
dry fjord
level 2 rogue hanging out at the entrance to MC
clever sky
Acid flash backs.
dry fjord
using the hover bug to float above the lava, selling health pots
fleet veldt
one good thing that came of me getting addicted to some games.. is it made me realize never to allow myself to touch drugs or alcohol (apart from the occasional beer or two)
clever sky
Ah yeah. Exploits in early MMOs were fun as shit.
dry fjord
actually good point
clever sky
I was never around for the blood plague bug though D:
fleet veldt
i read your paper by the way Zap, ๐ good stuff.. seemd a little lengthy though.. maybe it could be condensed a little?
clever sky
Cheers tmek. It probably could stand to have an abridged version.
Where I cut out most of the definition stuff and explaining basics to people.
fleet veldt
maybe really what it needs is like an part that just gives a quick review of how an implmeentation might work.
clever sky
As it's written kind as a primer to VR locomotion, the ins and outs... and also why CAOTS rocks!
dry fjord
the blood plague was fun
now it's part of almost every world event
the latest one was demonic whispers
level 100s sitting the city could accumulate stacks of it, then dispel them to turn into a dreadlord with world boss abilities
so some guy threw up a custom LFG for a rare spawn and got 80 people in it
when they were all there he dispelled and killed half of them in the first hit
clever sky
@dry fjord I got boundaries to show up after darkening the screen btw.
clever sky
Lol ๐ it'll be great once Epic fixes that issue.
fleet veldt
I'm currently building latest master branch source.. i'm a donkey livin' on tha edge!
clever sky
Nope. The issue is related to the SteamVRChaperone component.
clever sky
In the C++ class, it checks for Steam VR headset && Stereo. Not sure which one is failing.
dry fjord
put in a breakpoint
I had Stereo On set in my game too
maybe it just has a bad reference outside of the editor
clever sky
Yeah... wasn't checking for stereo on, but if SteamVRHMD.StereoOn()
dry fjord
aah
maybe it's a race condition
is it called once or on construction or on every frame?
fleet veldt
(freakin vive owners.. grumblecakes)
clever sky
Which I guess would fail if it's not picking up on the SteamVR identifier.
Roomscale VR for life Tmek.
dry fjord
haha
clever sky
You'll feel the same way once you get the touch controllers too ๐
dry fjord
tmek get you a vive
fleet veldt
i'm getting touch this week though bitches :p
dry fjord
it will change your view of VR
have you tried roomscale at a conference or something yet?
silk lodge
is quietly sitting in a corner with 3 vives
fleet veldt
nope ๐ฆ
dry fjord
@silk lodge you monster
fleet veldt
attacks pizza bug
dry fjord
aww bro if you were here I'd let you borrow it for the weekend
silk lodge
@dry fjord I could have some touch setups but why?!??!
clever sky
You'll be like... the gulf between the Rift without touch and the Rift with touch is the same gulf as monitor and seated/standing VR!
dry fjord
you'll eventually want a vive for the better tracking
btw I got a kinect 2 today. going to map my body to an avatar.
silk lodge
nice!
fleet veldt
yeah, and to be able to have proper vive support for my project
clever sky
@dry fjord Second camera does a pretty good job of keeping tracking.
dry fjord
also I'm going to use it to tell me when the cat is risking his ass walking in front of me
silk lodge
I'm just gonna tape 7 vive controllers everywhere
dry fjord
@clever sky oh there's a second camera? I stand corrected then
silk lodge
dude! that could solve cats!
clever sky
@dry fjord let me know how the latency is like with the kinect 2 tracking.
silk lodge
but could it solve couches?
dry fjord
if they don't totally occlude it yes
clever sky
Because I remember reading early people like Carmack poo-pooing the Kinect 2 for its latency.
clever sky
But I maintain that for mere body tracking (i.e. not head/hand) it's more than ok.
dry fjord
most of my avatar's visible bits will be from IK from the controllers
fleet veldt
so.. is there a vive dev relations guy any of you talk to?
dry fjord
controllers win in any disagreement
silk lodge
couches!
clever sky
That's right.
dry fjord
nah no vive relations to speak of
fleet veldt
i've had good luck with Oculus and OSVR but can't seem to get in touch with anyone at HTC/Vive
clever sky
That's what I was saying. And people were all - nooo, latency.
dry fjord
I'll let you all know how I do. if it's good I'll release a plugin for UE to make it easy
silk lodge
don't worry about htc, talk to valve @fleet veldt
clever sky
Nice. I'll have to buy a kinect 2 if it works well.
dry fjord
yeah, HTC just make the hardware. valve make the SDK and API
kinect 2s are cheap too. also want to do some mocap
I also figured at the with body occlusion, the motion controllers make up for one arm being hidden briefly
silk lodge
i've been considering a neuron but I hear they're a beast to set up
dry fjord
I can't justify the cost
clever sky
Kind of a shame that all the technology for fantastic VR already exists now... just it's all owned by seperate companies and scattered to the four winds.
clever sky
Only for out of home entertainment
dry fjord
I dunno, people who spend money on VR rigs won't mind dropping $150 on another device to say add their body into the sim
I spent $99 on the fucking leap motion which I will now never use
clever sky
True that. I spent $50 on it just so I could see my hands in Waifu Simulator.
hahahahaha
dry fjord
hahaha
dry fjord
yeah sadly, not really very good. I never tried the updated drivers but by then I'd moved on from the DKII
dry fjord
and I don't think a combination of kinect 2 and LM is all that good a solution either
a lot of vive actions are out of view
clever sky
Like the difference between broken and next generation.
dry fjord
yeah
clever sky
Just I personally think that hand tracking can only ever be a supplementary paradigm.
Because not having buttons/tactile feedback... that's like... having hands that only exist in front of your eyes.
Anyone got a new slim Vive cable?
dry fjord
yeah, it needs haptics
but it'd be nice to have gloves that could lock to give the sensation of holding something
that implies easy tracking too
clever sky
Will be interesting to see how those dexmo gloves pan out.
dry fjord
I think that's probably this or the next gen, depending on who wants to do it
clever sky
But again, chicken/egg problem with all peripherals.
dry fjord
I did not get the new slim vive cable btw, despite my vive being new
I might prefer this one because I can see if its twisted
with the open-source vive sensors I think someone will do hand tracking sooner rather than later
clever sky
Yeah. I think they're only sending those new ones once their warehouse in the shipping region has run out of old stock.
dry fjord
mine came from taiwan
clever sky
And I imagine that the headsets are manufactured in advance.
dry fjord
yeah def
clever sky
So they sop up all the old cable stock.
dry fjord
I did what everyone does and freaked out a bit when I thought they hadn't sent everything
lots of stuff hidden under the big foam
clever sky
Ah yeah. You got a new box I imagine.
Everything super neatly laid out in the old box.
Which was super massive.
dry fjord
haha yeah
the new one was like.. where is everything
I need to get a hook for the HMD
or a mannequin head or something
docks for the controllers
hooks for the future haptic gloves
dry fjord
I've been seeing VC funding applications a bit too. a few chinese places are doing automated scent systems for VR. so that will finally see the light of day.
what kind of gameplay are you going to have in that motorsep?
mighty carbon
just exploration with some interactivity
nothing fancy.. It's a small experience app, not a game
mostly trying to squeeze max visuals/performance out of Gear VR, get some core gameplay mechanics implemented and hopefully get some cash out of it for PC upgrade ๐ Plus to see actual purchasing power of the market.
dry fjord
quality of release is a distant secondary concern on the mobile app market. good marketing can make millions out of a polished turd
or even an unpolished one
time to release being by far the biggest factor
mighty carbon
UE4 is not really optimized well enough for Gear VR ๐ฆ
dry fjord
not surprised
mighty carbon
so I might have to chop that crypt and make some sort of gazebo with teleport in the middle
on the other hand it should work fine on S7 (I am testing on S6 and performance is still okay'ish in that area)
clever sky
Yes! I figured out how to 'mirror' an object without flipping its normals in run time! #small victories
dry fjord
what'd you do?
clever sky
I was picking up things like swords and shields.
The attachment system in unreal doesn't like arbitrary attachment... it just attaches child actor's origin to the parent socket.
dry fjord
yeah
clever sky
So although I had positioned the shield to look good when holding it in my right hand
it didn't flip around when I held it in my left hand.
So I was just all... let's do a -1 on world scale like the BPMotionController hand mesh does.
And it flipped all the normals on my instanced mesh!
dry fjord
I suppose on movable objects it's A-OK
just don't do it with meshes you want to run through lightmass
clever sky
Well, whatever the case, it wasn't working for me, and answerhub said it was solved, but I was having the same issue that some guy from 2015 described and showed.
So I was like... let's just do a hacky work around and rotate the sucker. Only problem is when you rotate, the sword doesn't like that - it flips around and stabs you in the gut!
or at least it's positioned the wrong way.
dry fjord
heh
clever sky
So I had to make a bool in the actor that let me specify if it needs to be rotated on left hand pickup.
So that worked.
But the result is a more generalizable item pick up solution.
The other work around was making all the materials double sided.
Which... feels unpalatable to me.
clever sky
I've only been programming/developing for the last few months... and most of the time I'm thinking - 'I have no idea if I'm doing it right, but it works, so who gives a ****!'
clever sky
Scaling it by -1 (Z in this case) causes the normals to flip.
I think it happens to instanced static meshes only... but that's how my actor works. It's a general pick up class that I use drop downs to choose the meshes.
clever sky
No. I didn't scale it - I rotated it.
I rotated it around, then moved it up a little.
dry fjord
you can just mirror the rotation from the other socket
clever sky
Oh yeah.
I totally understand why game development is painstaking and fun now.
#smallvictories
clever sky
Yeah. Seriously, UE4 does a lot to make the experience of making games quite enjoyable.
The whole blue print system is... amazing.
@dry fjord you said you were looking around for VC funding? How's the process?
There's a company here that's interested in doing VR/AR incubation.
What are the terms like normally? Share of your company?
dry fjord
I'm not looking personally. That's a lot of it out there though
Like billions worth of funding
clever sky
Yeah but I want funding to make VR games ๐
silk lodge
vr "TEAM BUILDING EXERCISES"
fleet veldt
Oculus had a panel today on VC funding for VR
it should be up on their youtube a few days after the conference
clever sky
@silk lodge Haha... I want to build a team building VR program.
The team has to work together to overcome significant challenges in coordination and problem solving.
By killing this 3 phase onyxia raid in VR.
silk lodge
Yes, tell me more
perhaps you can be the future of team buildintg for big companies
maybe you need $$$$$$$$$$$ to make this happen
clever sky
Man... I'd love to make an awesome VR MMO. Beat the pants off Sword art online ๐
except with less entrapment and dying.
silk lodge
I'd love to make an awesome vr mmo
but with actual swordplay and dyamicly destroyable enemies and massive world destroying spells
silk lodge
like [removed] in vr
real needle
@silk lodge Is there a secret to that webpage?
silk lodge
@real needle yeah. Everything was designed very carefully
@real needle and the page itself is secret!
clever sky
Nice.
dry fjord
doesn't interfere with the vive too much, just a tiny amount occasionally
now to get a UE plugin set up for it, unless one already exists
dry fjord
shit yeah exists
it will
I just did it in VR
but nothing I know of supports it
see, matching up is easy
you can calibrate it using where the kinect thinks your head is and where the vive thinks your head is
then the controllers
three points of accuracy
should be a piece of cake if this plugin allows for calibration
clever sky
Cool cool. Main thing you'd want is for it to accurately track the rest of your body
That isn't been tracked by HMD/motion controllers.
Someone.... someone make a VR set with kinect style cameras as tracking stations!
dry fjord
nice
no problem tracking the body, it's appropriately accurate, didn't notice any latency
it's there but you don't notice it
clever sky
Nice.
dry fjord
basically the kinect is sitting flat so all it needs is to know what direction it's pointing in. the HMD tracking is good enough for that
so that's done
fuck yeah
no work needed
dry fjord
ew UE 4.10
clever sky
Haha
dry fjord
make an avatar in a VR game
this better update to 4.13
it was free so presumably I can get source somewhere
it's updated on their site, excellent
clever sky
Seems like you'd be able to do well integrating this kind of tech into out of home entertainment setups
dry fjord
yeah big time
I don't understand why the vive didn't come with something like this in the lighthouses
clever sky
In fact, I think that's really the go for VR peripherals - where location hardware and software can be matched up better.
dry fjord
there's always money to be made combining things in a good way
clever sky
Probably because the magic is in the software that spits out the animation data.
dry fjord
yeah likely
clever sky
And Microsoft has that shit on lock.
dry fjord
the kinect does a TON of onboard processing. it's why it costs a lot more than a webcame
clever sky
Keep me posted. Or upload a video? Would be bad ass, if only just as a "hey, look at this potential slice of future VR!"
Actually I had that moment in my own demo.
I used Epic's kite demo sample level
which is a super high detail forest scene contained to a little floating island.
And use my locomotion system to walk around it.
dry fjord
yeah, will do. need to figure out how to do VR video
nice man
I haven't run the kite demo yet
I'm too impatient
time spent doing that is time that could be spent making one of the huge list of things I gotta do
clever sky
Yeah... it's a lot of downloading for a very small sample map!
dry fjord
it's all downloaded
clever sky
Ah yeah
dry fjord
I cant' be fucked waiting for the materials
clever sky
Ah ok
Some useful assets in there if you're looking to make a high detailed VR experience.
But yeah. Was just walking around thinking... damn, if this is The Witcher or Elder Scrolls in VR, we're totally fuckin' set.
dry fjord
yeah I see a lot of people using it as a nice screenshot setting for characters or for testing foliage out
haha awesome
clever sky
Man... I hope I'm not deluding myself with this locomotion system I'm making.
Like some crazy bias that I can't get past. But goddamn. It's so good.
dry fjord
how does it work?
clever sky
It's a walking in place solution called 'CAOTS'
or 'controller assisted on the spot'
I wrote a paper about it... 30 pages long. Actually more like a VR locomotion primer + caots explanation
But the basic gist of it is you point the controller in a direction and press a button (like onward), and then you walk on the spot (unlike onward) to cause the velocity
It has a pretty huge range of motion though, and very intuitive. Can go from 1km/h to 40km/h.
But to hit 40km/h requires significant effort and exertion... so you won't be mistakenly sprinting at those speeds.
dry fjord
it woooorks
didn't do any IK replacement yet but it works good
holy fuck
video coming
so I just set the yaw of the pawn to my HMD camera and set the location to the camera
next I need to find an avatar with a separate head so I can hide it in the player camera
and remove the hands and map them to the motion controller hands
also need to set the body rotation to be independent from the head, map to the kinect instead
still haven't thought it all the way through there but the thing I'm using takes your pose and ignores your orientation I think
so I need orientation of the body too
or the head relative to the body, whatever
body is a bit jittery
some basic IK should fix that
like set reasonable limits on it
a speed limit too
make sure feet are on the ground if they are both at the same height, use that for calibration
clever sky
Nice. sounds ace.
dry fjord
clever sky
Fuckin' awesome.
How's it feel... to be a man-machine?
with the occasionally janky leg.
dry fjord
more than man, more than machine, possibly like michael J fox on a bad day
I uploaded your motion control settings in the video apparently, sorry D:
want me to pull it down?
clever sky
My motion control settings?
Oh that stuff
hahaha... ah, yeah, bit inconvenient to have it leak
sideways like that. Although to be fair, I have written and released a paper already.
clever sky
Sorry! but cheers!
clever sky
Cool first proof of concept though. Love it.
dry fjord
ah, it can operate in world or component space
in world space I don't need to do any tricky head shit
but it still centers you on zero, so you center the model on your camera. perfect.
still gotta do hand IK. it's been a while since I did that.
I am not sure I remember how
time to relearn
last trail
newcomer here, hey
clever sky
Nice nice. Gotta reposition that BPMotionController hand mesh though... because by default it's not really in the right place!
Question is... how you gonna interpolate between the vive controller position driving the IK and the kinect elbows?
If you can get that right, it'll be amazing!
dry fjord
yeah it needs some IK to solve it
clever sky
I brought the hand mesh down around 15 cm and rotated it a bit to better match up with my hand position. Presence enhancing.
dry fjord
not everyone's arms are the same length, for example
clever sky
Probably needs a calibration function for best tracking?
dry fjord
yeah
stand there with your arms at your sides and push the calibrate button at the start
that'll set the relative scale of the mesh and lengthen the arms or something if needed
clever sky
Yeah. Stand with arms out, then touch the controllers to the shoulders.
dry fjord
but IK is higher on the list, since that's also a good way to solve it
clever sky
or something like that.
clever sky
Yep
dry fjord
oh
ohohoh
I know what it is
the hands center on the top of the controller
not where you grip it
I just have to adjust that
it might solve it a bit more
but IK will help with failure to track too
so perhaps both
clever sky
That makes sense. I just kept repositioning the hand mesh until it looked right.
Took like... 30 tweaks ๐
dry fjord
gotcha
seems right to me
hehe
it won't track roll of the HMD though
that's annoying
I wonder if I need to get a forward vector and not just break the axes
clever sky
What won't? The helmet?
dry fjord
yeah
clever sky
Hmmm
dry fjord
I convert the camera position into local bone space then copy the rotation
so maybe the camera itself doesn't roll
clever sky
Can't you just stick the helmet onto the camera?
clever sky
Haha D:
dry fjord
๐
clever sky
Will probably have to move the mesh back a bit though
because it'll spawn on the camera which is centered on the lens
dry fjord
yeah
the helmet is set to owner no see
hmm the vive application just closed for an update
cool
clever sky
So... what kinda game are you making anyway if you don't mind me asking.
dry fjord
nothing specific
I have a bunch of projects that could use this but right now I'm familiarizing myself with the vive
and now the kinect
need to catch up on it, I basically got a DKII and barely used it, piece of shit
clever sky
Haha. Fair enough.
dry fjord
the stormtrooper helmet was just for fun ๐
I've seen videos of people doing vive and kinect stuff together but I haven't seen anyone build a decent avatar with both yet
clever sky
Yeah, the gulf between Vive and DKII is huge.
clever sky
Definetly getting there with decent avatar.
Main thing is to figure out a way of moderating out pops
like when you go for a squat and kinect loses tracking and spazs out your foot.
... but thinking about it... that's... tricky stuff.
Some sort of velocity comparison between last and previous frames.
But for everyone bone that the kinect tracks for...
clever sky
Yeah. Problem is when you limit organically fast speeds. Although there should be a pretty reasonable threshold.
dry fjord
one problem I'm having is that in order to move the body around I set it to the HMD location
so it drifts when your head moves a bit
I know, I'll cast out from the helmet to the neck and use that
that'll remove the drift
clever sky
Nice.
I was thinking more that there's drift between body and head because of Kinect lag.
dry fjord
not so much
when I tilt my head to the left the body slides to the left a tiny bit
it just needs a different point to home in on, such as the base of the neck
and done
clever sky
Nothing weird from a third person perspective though I imagine.
clever sky
Ah.
dry fjord
the kinect component treats the chest as the center of everything
root component
so if you bend over, the hips slide back
this should fix that
sorry
hips slide forward
so you end up behidn your avatar
even though it copied your movement
clever sky
Ah. Your kinect body is moving your actor around?
Hmmm. It's almost like you need to move the root around based on center of gravity.
Unrelated question. What's the deal with Americans and mac and cheese?
See that shit all over youtube cooking vids ๐
dry fjord
no, my camera component is moving the kinect poseable around
you get all the join deformation in world space
but no actual root bone movement
which is good, I want to line it up with the camera
solves a lot of problems
ugh, I edited the FBX though and when I reimported it the axis had flipped and rotated and shit
now it's a nightmare to get everything lined up
looks fine in the component
breaks badly in the game
clever sky
Ouch.
last trail
Anyone here developing for GearVR?
dry fjord
I've worked it out. there's a about 20cm of built in offset on the root bone
you don't see it until you start asking the component for its location
and you don't really ask for it directly, so it's difficult to measure. it just reposes the skeleton
but inadvertently moves the root
there's a guy named @mighty carbon doing some gearvr
last trail
thnx
clever sky
Ah yeah.
dry fjord
ah had an idea
get the neck bone and transform it into worldspace, line it up that way
fuck yeah
clever sky
Sounds like it should work. TBH though, I get confused as hell with all these transforms, and it often just ends up been a guessing game as I iterate and tweak ๐
clever sky
Most of the time I have to do print strings to figure out what the hell is going on.
It's like... oh, ok. That's what that thing does. ... 2 minutes later. I think?
clever sky
Sweet
dry fjord
print is amazing
although with BPs I find out most of the time my flow of logic is wrong
code? easy
BPs? not so much
need a tool for recording BP flow and laying it out in a flowchart
even loops
clever sky
Fair enough. I find myself enjoying BPs more.
clever sky
Because I come from a design/graphic background
And been able to organize the relationships lets me know what stuff is at a glance.
Not in the - I can figure out what it is by glancing at it. But in a - I remember what that does by the layout.
Whereas code is easier to figure out. But tends to blend together.
dry fjord
yeah that's how we all work I think
clever sky
I think what'd be best would be if we could create C++ nodes in BP
dry fjord
BPs don't lend themselves to understanding complicated iterative stuff when you look at it
clever sky
and just edit C++ code directly.
clever sky
inside UE4.
clever sky
Yeah.
dry fjord
not MUCH of a speed gain but for people who need it it's pretty good
there's nothing wrong with the bytecode BPs compile to by default
clever sky
I meant more like a visual interface in blue prints where you can type in visual studio code, while seeing the spatial relationships to the rest of the BP.
instead of going back and forth.
dry fjord
with the way the reflection system works every blueprint node is a copy of a C++ framework class
gotcha
VS has that already
it's called code visualisation
try it out
you can generate a graph
clever sky
Is it in the free version?
clever sky
I was googling for something like that and it seemed to be enterprise version only
Unless we're not talking about the same thing.
clever sky
Code dependency that's the one
dry fjord
meh maybe it's gone
clever sky
Ah well.
dry fjord
if you do any php dev, blackfire does what you want
but that's basically the call stack in VS
just with pictures and boxes and lines
clever sky
Yeah. Nah, I'm super novice at programming.
Haven't done any real C++ work - just followed along with an Unreal C++ course which was pretty great.
But not exactly years of experience! ๐
sharp swan
https://forums.oculus.com/developer/discussion/33429/sdk-1-3-messes-with-the-foreground-window
Anyone had this issue? It's causing terrible issues with UMG focus in our menus
the UMG keeps the focus but the window isn't active so it takes a mouse click to make it the active window, which then removes the focus from the UMG. It's been a pain to try debug
dry fjord
@clever sky how did you adjust the hand meshes? I can't find out where their location I set.
I want to both move them a bit and offset their rotation
clever sky
I think you can do them through the BP motion controller view port
Don't have unreal open to confirm right now though
dry fjord
gotcha
oh I get it
the hand mesh doesn't move, the motion controller BP itself does
thanks ๐
clever sky
no worries!
dry fjord
apparently IK happens in the animation blueprint, this one doesn't have any. may have to do it manually
but I did get the forearm to look at the hand mesh
and got the hand mesh palced mostly right
they;'re tracking unevenly
thanks for your help zap
mighty carbon
A rumor has it that Touch will be compatible with Gear VR
clever sky
Nice work antidamage! Looks honestly like the best tracking I've seen outside of more professional grade solutions like perception neuron.
And a shit load cheaper to boot.
Could legitimately use that to capture animations for meshes.
last trail
Touch, as in what sense?
clever sky
Also head and hand shadows hidden ๐ can turn on hidden shadow options in the static mesh component.
dry fjord
yeah, I was thinking once the pop is eliminated and good constraints are in it'd be excellent for mocap as well as VR
yeah it looks weird with bad shadows ๐
clever sky
Fo sho. Excited man. VR gonna revolutionize content creation.
dry fjord
VR is just magical
clever sky
Some Pixar dude making a VR animation system as well.
Doing stuff in a few minutes that he says took him hours on workstations
Becasuse you know... it turns out posing and moving things in 3D space with 3D controllers is a lot more efficient than doing the same in 2D space with 2d controllers.
dry fjord
that's awesome
haha yeah
keyframing animation is hard even if you're rotoscoping
might as well just record it
clever sky
For sure. All the expense of mo-cap makes sense.
Even when it's a bit janky and needs to be massaged.
But now we're moving into an era where we can retarget all that shit on the fly
with consumer grade tech.
dry fjord
yeah good quality is worth it and you get what you pay for
clever sky
Fuckin' amaaazzzing
dry fjord
then again another kinect might solve all my remaining problems
it's having trouble if I point my arms right at the screen
which is a common gesture in VR
I might try moving the kinect to the side a bit
come in at an angle
but ultimately two kinects would sort it right out
if there's any support for that
only one problem with HMDs: you can't capture facial expressions
time to sleep, night fellas!
uncut galleon
@mighty carbon sounds interesting, where did you hear about it? ๐
clever sky
@dry fjord Maybe have IK override kinect (for the occluded areas) when it detects the user is facing forwards to the camera.
And yeah... facial expressions are tricky dice without face/eye capture.
Best idea I have right now is simply to provde the player with an easy and highly accessible menu (left and right menu buttons don't have to do the same thing...)
mighty carbon
@uncut galleon on Reddit ๐
http://cdn.uploadvr.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Amazon.png << note platform listed as Android
clever sky
Would never trust Amazon as a primary source of information.
mighty carbon
(which very well might be a typo or maybe they figured out how to connect Touch and Android)
rumor is what I said
clever sky
Wouldn't even entertain a rumor with an amazon source ๐
last trail
interesting idea though
clever sky
But impossible.
Because the touch controllers rely on the constellation cameras for tracking.
Hence the rings around them with IR-LEDs embedded all around them.
mighty carbon
so?
camera can be connected to a gateway (Raspberry Pi for example) and communicate to smartphone via WiFi
no PC needed
clever sky
If you're going to go that far, you can also use external means to pass motion controller data to the phone.
mighty carbon
that is external means ๐
clever sky
That's right.
mighty carbon
so that's really the only way to get motion controls to Gear VR
until they figure out Rink
clever sky
Rink?
clever sky
Until they figure out a robust inside out tracking solution for mobile use.
mighty carbon
5-10 years from now, maybe
clever sky
Not really? I mean hololens does it. And so does the Magicleap
mighty carbon
but, who on Earth would use motion controllers in public ?!
you know how idiotic it looks and disrupting to other people ๐
inside-out positional tracking - maybe fine in public. Motion controls - please leave it at home.
uncut galleon
who on earth would use a HMD in public to begin with ^^
clever sky
Social acceptability changes.
mighty carbon
well, people use Gear VR on public transportation to watch movies
clever sky
So does tech.
mighty carbon
for movies you don't need positional tracking though
clever sky
Often it does so at different rates among different generations.
Like how some people are all chill about using mobile phones in public
mighty carbon
and for a social event one can setup outside-in tracking for both HMD and controllers
clever sky
and others are decrying the fall of civilization because of that.
last trail
Well, Google Daydream will be using a handcontroller, so it can't be tah far off?
that far off*
mighty carbon
Google Daydream controller is nothing like Vive/Touch
uncut galleon
so i would assume controllers would be fine sooner or later as well. somebody wildly waving around their hands is weird enough, having controllers as well wouldn't be too much worse i guess
last trail
nope, agreed, but u'll have twist, rotation, position tracking
mighty carbon
@clever sky wearing/using HMD / motion controls in public is already fine. I bet if I outrig myself with VR and walk the streets in a big city, no one will even look at me. It's not about "it's acceptable, I shall wear it". It's about practicality, not about proving a point.
@last trail No positional tracking for Daydream controller.
clever sky
@mighty carbon ... you're sending very mixed messages! On one hand you say: "but, who on Earth would use motion controllers in public ?!
you know how idiotic it looks and disrupting to other people"
Then you say " I bet if I outrig myself with VR and walk the streets in a big city, no one will even look at me."
These are not congruent statements!
last trail
In all their video previews, they show hand movement/'position' as the wield their wands etc.?
clever sky
As far as practicality goes - that's highly dependent on the tech. As it improves, it becomes more practical.
lucid pecan
Yeah, I'm woundering too about the controllers abilities as far as tracking goes. a live demo during the event would have been nice.
clever sky
I mean at this point, it's not even possible to do walk abouts with advanced VR tech.
because of the tracking station requirements.
Wearing a gear VR on your face and walking around has already been done though. But no one would do it 'seriously', because it's inconvenient and doesn't really enhance anything.
lucid pecan
they did mention the controllers were precise enough so you could draw with them. but drift surelly is still a problem
clever sky
Once VR/AR tech slims down to a form factor that's easy enough to wear for prolonged periods and provides useful functionality that's worth having on you constantly, you'd expect to see more people using it in public.
@lucid pecan Yeah, their presentation didn't really clarify much. I mean you can draw kinda with a non-positional tracked controller. Just like you can kinda draw with a laser pointer on a fixed pivot.
mighty carbon
@clever sky No mixed message there. I am saying if I'd do that, no one will care. That doesn't mean I will and doesn't mean I am ok with people using motion controllers in public. People might not look, but they see. If a person is in the public, swinging hands and being weird, I'd definitely notice that and think "what a moron".
last trail
That will be me, acting like a 'moron' :p
clever sky
... ok mate.
snow raft
So what's this Oculus announce thing?
mighty carbon
heh, good luck shopping and having people bumping in you and accidentally swinging at you. I am sure first time you'd be like WTF?! but the more you get disturbed, the more pissed off you will be
AR will be practical in public, but motion controls will never be
last trail
:p
snow raft
Lol people getting robbed playin pokemon go imagine how bad it'd be if you can't see your attacker coming
last trail
then they won't need any RFID methods no more :p
snow raft
AR won't be practical people hate big brother watchin em, google glass got banned heaps of places and I'm sure snapchat glasses will too
Only reason people tolerate phones is cuz its not so subtle
hard light
AR will be fine as soon as they market it towards women
because welcome to society - give it to nerdy guys, and it's a creepy personal privacy / security security risk
snow raft
I think it could have some good use on job sites but in general public you might see a growing stigma towards it
hard light
market it towards women on the other hand, and it'll be fine ๐
snow raft
Yeah and probably best not to call it AR-15 just incase :p
last trail
and aim towards an avatar of your self (said woman/women) on which you can instantly check/measure/... clothes. Does it fit, is the color right etc...
hard light
it doesn't matter what it is, so long as it's marketed correctly, it'll get through
snow raft
Yeah but that has more use on job sites, will this bolt fit etc. You can get children building exoskeletons :)
last trail
I can already see myself building robot suits!
snow raft
Imagine as a tradie not having to use a tape measure cuz the AR does it for you
But as usual people want to use brilliant things for cat pics and pink tutus
Might as well sell it with rainbow mohawks addon
clever sky
cat pics - yes, an accurate jab at the modern state of affairs.
pink tutus - what?
๐
snow raft
My jab at fashion or lack there of :)
last trail
:p
snow raft
Last biggest invention for mens fasion since the 3 piece suit.... the cargo pant woooo awe noises
snow raft
Honestly for what you pay for pro sunglasses these day you'd think they'd already be AR capable
But nope they haven't even figured out a decent way to integrate earphones
clever sky
The price of glasses is entirely on Luxotica
owns 80% of global marketshare for glasses and sunglasses.
With many many different brand names.
snow raft
That's the market they'll have to tap, no one wants to look like a borg from star trek they want sleek graphite and carbon fibre shit with custom lenses
I still don't see it being widely accepted though, I think you'd start seeing remove glasses signs
But if you can make me an app that would take peoples clothes off I'm sure you could make yourself rich :p
Hell make any chick I date look like emma watson... sure totally worth it bwahaha
Reminds me of that Black Mirror episode where when they bonk they replay old memories
last trail
Demolition Man with Stalone aswell
clever sky
I'm all about that Demolition man future sex.
snow raft
Ahh yes Sandra Bullock, would still bone her too lol
clever sky
She's like the keanu reeves of leading ladies.
snow raft
I liked that movie The Heat think it was, hilarious
clever sky
My guess is... she got some keanu in her while filming Speed. Got some of his powers.
snow raft
Lol does that make her a neopet? :p
last trail
Back to UE4 for then, laters
snow raft
I'm just killin time bingin walkin dead till theme announce
mighty carbon
VRTracker is making progress: https://twitter.com/VRTracker
btw, how does walking / leaning work with Vive ? If HMD moves only so much it's "leaning" and if it moves more than that it's "walking" (and moving whole character actor in UE4) ?
if so, what if I lean and walk ?
it would be nice if someone with experience give VRTracker guys some tips about that for their UE4 plugin.
dusky light
Hi all. I've been trying to get teleportation working using the BP_Motioncontroller from the VR template in UE4.13. I didn't want to use a NavMesh as I found it difficult to accurately create one for my architectural scenes. omebody (from here I think) helped suggest which bits of the BP to delete to have anywhere a valid teleport target. This works, but now you can teleport half-way up walls etc.
Anyone have time to help me change the BP to have specific physical materials that are possible targets?
This is what I had to delete to get 'anywhere' a valid target.
dusky light
...I've managed to assign a physical material to particular objects by creating a new PhysicalSurface type in Project Settings/Engine/Physics called 'Teleport'
hard light
Vive isn't something like GearVR, it's fully tracked
it's using lasers to determine where the headset is
it doesn't detect movement, it just updates the location every frame
mighty carbon
@hard light These guys making positional tracking for Gear VR and it's already working. What I wonder about is how "leaning" separated from "walking", since on hardware level position in 3D space is tracked.
mighty carbon
right
but in a game, what if I am on a ledge of a skyscraper. I want to be able to lean forward to look down.
hard light
then just lean forwards and look down?
mighty carbon
and not fall (character shouldn't move)
yet at the same time I want to be able to move around (get off the ledge and walk away)
how do you do that in UE4 ?
hard light
you'd fall if the ledge was thin enough
mighty carbon
hmm
hard light
but realistically human center of balance isn't going to shift that much
if you lean forwards, you head only moves forwards by about 20cm
mighty carbon
well, the way I see it, if offset is relatively small, only camera should move in the scene. If offset is larger, then whole player actor should be moved
hard light
maybe 40 if you bend all the way over, but who does that?
mighty carbon
is what how it's done?
hard light
you have no way of knowing what a player's body is doing, so don't design things assuming you can
mighty carbon
but you have a way of knowing how much HMD moved, right ?
hard light
sure, but you have no way of knowing why
mighty carbon
that's irrelevant
hard light
it's entirely relevant
mighty carbon
if it moves +/-20 cm - consider it "leaning". If it moves more than that - "walking"
hard light
that doesn't work
mighty carbon
why wouldn't it ?
hard light
you're going to get out of synch with the player
if I move forwards a little, then a lot, then a little, you eventually get a wide margin of error
you could be meters out
mighty carbon
hmm
hard light
you should design applications based around what you absolutely know for sure, and not make assumptions based on what you cannot know
mighty carbon
that sucks
hard light
not really, it's just common sense. It's like trying to design a normal FPS and guessing what the player is looking at on the screen
you just don't know
information not available
it's why things like depth of field are so shitty in a lot of games
mighty carbon
so I guess for my skyscraper example I should have invisible ledge so that when player "leans" forward, actor wouldn't wall off too early
hard light
I'd imagine the collision capsule would just be large enough to compensate
mighty carbon
normal FPS has no need to sync with real worlds
and you can snap cam to the body without causing any sickness
hard light
sure it does, it needs inputs to match up with expectations the same, or it doesn't work
mighty carbon
oh but it does
hard light
no, it doesn't - if mouse input doesn't match expectation, the game is broken
mighty carbon
look at any game that mixes cinematic cam with player controlled cam
hard light
cinematics usually use black bars to tel the player 'input isn't accepted now'
mighty carbon
and since you know exactly what player is doing (using WASD, or leaning keys, or mouse) and where player is, you can do whatever you want in conventional FPS
hard light
but you can't assume you know what the player is actually looking at
which goes back to my point
you just don't know, you do not have that information
(unless you have something like a tobi eye tracker)
mighty carbon
eeh, you know exactly where player is looking at for moments like that, "by design"