multiplayer

[bitter oriole]

TActorRange

[lilac bear]

proper in case there are more ways than one (which I don't know)

[meager spade]

fine if you use C++, but it might be BP only

hence the generic answers 😄

[bitter oriole]

Yeah, good point 🙂

[meager spade]

i prefer manager class (like SpawnManager) that holds all spawn points

then i just go SpawnManager->GetSpawnPoints etc

wrong channel

[lilac bear]

gotcha, so I'd need to make a spawnManager(SM) actor and have GameMode (on beginplay?) find all spawn points and pass to SM, then pass a reference to SM for all PCs on beginplay?

[bitter oriole]

I mean you don't need to

Any class with a world pointer (any actor, component or an object that was passed it from them) can query actors

Just do whatever works best for you

[meager spade]

100 ways to do it, each with there own benefit/disadvantage

[kindred widget]

How much overhead is there for structs and arrays generally? For example, two Bytes(uint8) in a struct and an array full of them. I assume that a hundred of these structs in an array would be more data than just 2Bytes*100?

[meager spade]

if there is no padding being put on and extra stuff sure

do sizeof to find out

[peak sentinel]

Kaos, SpawnManager is a custom actor in the end, right?

not engine class

[bitter oriole]

It would be a custom class

Maybe an actor, maybe a random UObject, maybe a component on the GameMode...

[peak sentinel]

understand

[bitter oriole]

Or it could not even exist at all and any world object could do it

[peak sentinel]

i am looking forward to make it a component

[kindred widget]

@meager spade The size of the array would be relatively correct if I did
sizeof(ArrayName[0]) * ArrayName.Num() ?

[meager spade]

that wouldn't account for TArray overhead

[kindred widget]

Doing sizeof(ArrayName) returns 16. the previous one returns like 32,000 which sounds insane for an array of 2 bytes.

Apparently structs that inherit from FFastArraySerializerItem are huge. Took that away and that 32,000 went to the expected 4,000

So. Is there some sort of bandwidth that does checks after an array replication or something?

Because on default settings where the limit is supposed to be 10,000b/s... This Array lags out the client for about five seconds or so. This array is just a little over 4,000 bytes I'm assuming. This Array shouldn't even take half a second to send to the client at that rate. So I don't understand the five seconds of lag afterwards?

[bitter oriole]

It's 10kbits/s

So 4Kbytes is 3.2 seconds

Assuming no other traffic and no overhead

[meager spade]

btw 10kbits is low

most games bump that up to like 20-30

[bitter oriole]

10kbps is extremely low and I found a remarkably simple game to have a large client startup time with that value

Replicating 100 int32 sized properties is already 300ms worth of optimal no overhead traffic

And I think a random Character isn't far off that

[kindred widget]

Ohh. I don't know why I processed that as bytes instead of bits in my head. That makes much more sense now... And that is a hell of a lot lower than I imagined. That explains why it sends instantly though and then lags out, if it's staggering time based on how much it already sent.

[bitter oriole]

Yeah

[harsh lintel]

I'm trying to possess AI with a player controller at runtime, anything I should know? because some InputComponent actions and axis bindings aren't working

[echo snow]

I have a problem with my player,

I switched from Game Mode Base to Game Mode, now when a new player joins the game he can't move

its like the game is paused for the new player

[plucky sigil]

Is anyone familiar with replication ?

[proven grove]

Mono make sure you didnt oberwrite any event and left empty?

Or vhange game state type?

[winged badger]

@echo snow i assume you also have a warning that GameMode is not entirely compatible with GameStateBase

[echo snow]

@winged badger yes that was the problem, I realized I didnt switch

Thank you tho

[winged badger]

as to why GameState propagates the MatchState from GameMode to clients

and OnRep_MatchState dispatches BeginPlay on the client World

so your clients could never call BeginPlay

from this you can infer a very convenient guarantee with GameMode/GameState

on clients, by the time first Actor calls BeginPlay, GameState is guaranteed to have replicated

@echo snow

[timber harbor]

Does anyone know how I should assign player controllers to specific instances of the pawns from the editor? I have a pawn in the editor I want to be my player one and another I want to be my player two. Maybe this isnt even the right way to do it in the first place?

I'm sure this seems really basic but I've been trying to figure it out for a while. Should I instead be trying to do this all programmatically?

[winged badger]

have GameMode find those Pawns when it starts up @timber harbor

[timber harbor]

I've set some stuff up in the scene so that the first player's pawn is attached to the second players pawn in a certain way, but it always just generates new instances of the pawns when I load them up

[winged badger]

once you have the references to them you can easily possess them

[timber harbor]

ok thanks

I've been having a lot of trouble finding documentation for C++

[winged badger]

GameMode is spawned in when the game starts

[timber harbor]

Are there some things I just have to do in blueprints?

[winged badger]

no Actor is spawned in before all pre-placed Actors are loaded

so you don't have a timing problem here

[timber harbor]

ok thank you @winged badger

[winged badger]

HandleStartingNewPlayer

is a good place to override

(do not call Parent, just override it)

[timber harbor]

great thanks

cool

[plucky sigil]

Does anyone know why changes arent replicated to other clients ?
All replications are visible to the server, but not all clients

[winged badger]

wdym by "all replications are visible to the server" ?

[neon mango]

If I use HandleStarting New player and just override it so it shows in BP without doing anything with it, it seems to break some logic I have.

[winged badger]

if you override it and don't call Parent

[neon mango]

Ah

[winged badger]

the game won't spawn default pawns

[plucky sigil]

Im creating a dynamic material and changing the bodycolor to yellow for each character that joins,
Server sees all characters that join become yellow
Individual clients see themselves as yellow but not other client characters

[winged badger]

default implementation just calls RestartPlayer

that would then depend on how are you trying to replicate it

what sets the parameter on the DMI and how is it replicated

[plucky sigil]

https://pastebin.pl/view/e24352e9
Can you please tell me if i did anything wrong

https://pastebin.pl/view/419899e0
Sorry its this one

[winged badger]

there is no instance of your Client1's PlayerController anywhere except on Server and Client1

Client2, 3, 4... etc

don't have that Actor

[plucky sigil]

What do you mean by that

[winged badger]

and can't receive a Multicast over its ActorChannel

[plucky sigil]

Sorry i dont quite understand

[winged badger]

PlayerControllers replicate to owning client only

so if a server multicasts from inside the PC

that multicast only reaches the server and the owning client

[plucky sigil]

Ahh

So it should be outside ? Like in GameMode ?

[winged badger]

GameMode is worse

[plucky sigil]

Rip

[winged badger]

it doesn't exist on any clients

[plucky sigil]

What should i do ?

[winged badger]

you should put a replicated variable for the DMI parameter

and just set the parameter value on the DMI from OnRep

(in the Pawn)

[plucky sigil]

How can i do that ?

[winged badger]

add a replicated variable?

[plucky sigil]

Attaching it to the DMI

[winged badger]

OnRep, if you don't have a DMI, create one

[plucky sigil]

I have a DMI in the script

[winged badger]

then assign it a param for color that you just replicated

[plucky sigil]

InitializeDynamicMaterial()

Did i do that correctly ?

[winged badger]

that looks fine

[plucky sigil]

By the way should i remove the netmulticast stuff ?

[winged badger]

yes

{
    if (!DynamicMaterial) InitializeDynamicMaterial();
    if (DynamicMaterial) DynamicMaterial->SetVectorParameterValue(TEXT("BodyColor"), InCharacterTypeColor);
}```

this is almost what your OnRep_CharacterTypeColor should look like

you just need to rename it, and add CharacterTypeColor replicated variable with ReplicatedUsing

add it to GetLifetimeReplicatedProps

and set the variable on server

[plucky sigil]

void APlayerController::SetCharacterType(ECharacterType InCharacterType)
{
    SetCharacterType_Server(InCharacterType);
    SetCharacterTypeColor_Server(GetCharacterTypeColor(InCharacterType));
}

SetCharacterType Should be like this ?

Removing the HasAuthority check ?

[winged badger]

you can manage from here 😄

you don't learn much if i just give you the code

[plucky sigil]

Im still having the same issue

[lucid vault]

When my player dies and a spectator pawn is spawned in AGameMode, where is a good place to set that pawn's location to the same place that player's previous pawn was at?

I'm not sure which function is good to override for something like that

Some function that runs after the pawn has been spawned

I see FindPlayerStart

I'l have to see if I can access the previous pawn

[winged badger]

@plucky sigil did you put the variable in the Pawn? with PC you have same problem as with Multicast

[plucky sigil]

@winged badger The pawn is null

Thats why i put it in the controller

[winged badger]

Pawn is null because PC calls BeginPlay as soon as its instantiated

then the Pawn is spawned and Possessed

[plucky sigil]

What should i do ?

I need the CharacterType assigned at the very beginning

[winged badger]

if server can deretmine the color without client input

just do it OnPossessed

or OnPossess depending if its Pawn or PC

[plucky sigil]

Whats the difference between the two

[peak sentinel]

OnPossessed happen when client/player/controller possesed the pawn

Beginplay is the last stage before tick as far as i know

could be too late for some initializations

[plucky sigil]

@winged badger OOF i think it worked

[severe nymph]

@fringe dove

I’ll continue the updates here

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/519291948608126980/759528200467906600/unknown.png

It appears once you solve the overlay and in game purchases you might still encounter this

When ppl try to checkout using the steam desktop app or website

From your games item store link

[neon mango]

Is there a way to server travel such that Post Login is called again?

[severe nymph]

@neon mango no you don’t use post login

[neon mango]

I create the Server Start Game Menu and do some setup there but when the match restarts none of that gets called

[severe nymph]

You use another event

[neon mango]

Which is better? I should never use that?

[severe nymph]

Because they aren’t technically logging in

You can use posession

[winged badger]

use HandleStartingNewPlayer

its called from both PostLogin and PostSeamlessTravelPlayer

[severe nymph]

And startingnewplayer

[neon mango]

Hmm starting new player happens to quickly

[severe nymph]

Yeah

You’ll need a callback

[neon mango]

Players begin play hasn't happened

[severe nymph]

Or a delay

[neon mango]

hmmm

[severe nymph]

I bind an event to a delegate

For posession.

Then use it knowing my player is ready

But you can do this however you need for the order of operations

Starting new player is called for controllers and the gamemode logic really

You’ll likely need a timer to say fire after so many seconds after travel complete

That way you know all character refs are valid to pass on additional logic

[winged badger]

you never need a timer

for those things

and sooner or later timers get out of hand

[severe nymph]

Yeah but I understand what he is saying

If you fire logic to check for character references on starting new player your level may be loaded but your character may not be possessed

It’s just reality based on order of object init

[winged badger]

HandleStartingNewPlayer is where your Pawn is usually first spawned on server

its a GameMode function, so it does happen before client's BeginPlay

if you do a lobby setup, then travel to game map

the idea is to travel seamlessly

so the PlayerStates and PlayerControllers persist during the travel

so the PlayerStates shoujld have the correct information in lobby on server

before travel even starts

and then there is no need for clients to RPC their setups to the server on game map at all

[severe nymph]

Yeah it’s because pawns are destroyed

Not really anything else

[winged badger]

you can get around that too

just override APlayerController::GetSeamlessTravelActorList

and add its Pawn to it

then Pawn survives the level transition

(not available in BP)

[lucid vault]

Is there a function that gets called right before pawn possession, so I can store the pawn in a LastControlledPawn variable?

(That way I can get the last controlled pawn's transform for spawning the spectator pawn)

[winged badger]

c++ available?

@lucid vault

[lucid vault]

Yeah

I'm using c++

[winged badger]

you can override SetPawn for that

[severe nymph]

Store just the transform on death in playerstate then ref it

[winged badger]

cache the old one before you set a new one (before Super)

[severe nymph]

Or gamemode on server

Gamestate etc

[lucid vault]

I don't think other players really need that last death location value. I could store in the controller I guess

[severe nymph]

That too

[winged badger]

SetPawn runs on both Server and Client

so you don't need to replicate the cached LastPawn

[severe nymph]

Just easier if server spawning to keep server relevant stuff in gamemode

[winged badger]

if you need it client side

[lucid vault]

If you stored it in game mode, how would you associate each transform with each player?

[severe nymph]

You already have access to playerstates there too if needed and you have a pawn array

Built in gamemode function

[winged badger]

just keep it in the PC, its where it belongs

[severe nymph]

The server can literally get pawn loc of all clients

But yeah player controller would work good as well

The gamemode keeps each client index and netguid

The association is made that way

Your death event is likely server side anyway

Tied to “some gamemode logic”

I just use this event for most things and handle additional logic in gamemode/gamestate anyways

My gamemode actually updates the player start location as progress is made and clients spawning is handled there via get the player start location

[oblique inlet]

When I change the collider on my character's mesh to "Query Only" all the non-server users fall through the world, the collider on my character's capsule is still fully enabled... how can I fix this?

and they spawn below the ground regardless of where the networkplayerspawn is

I just needed to disable the "Pawn" collision channel

[carmine citrus]

Is there an event for the PlayerController to know when I've joined? I feel like setting things like health, mana , etc in SetPawn with if (!init) is kinda hacky

[pallid ember]

hey guys is there a way to work with ReplicationGraphs with blueprint? or possibly a marketplace item or plugin that can help?

[meager spade]

not really

there might be a plugin

but i haven't seen one

best to learn some C++

[pallid ember]

yes I think its time lolz

[severe nymph]

@carmine citrus are you using server travel?

Handlenewplayerstart

You also have on posession

I thing there is a callback on player controller as well for pawn possessed

[carmine citrus]

On posession? I'll have to check it out, I saw there was PawnLeaving

[severe nymph]

Tons of ways to do this

Begin play

On the pawn itself

[carmine citrus]

well BeginPlay the pawn is null

and controller

[severe nymph]

Huh?

[carmine citrus]

yea

[severe nymph]

Begin play always fires on asset loading

[carmine citrus]

I stopped using BeginPlay cause the controller and pawn is null

[severe nymph]

It’s a uobject level event

The pawn itself has a begin play

[carmine citrus]

this is my first project, but its kinda annoying that everyone says that Begin play works.

[severe nymph]

But yes it doesn’t mean it’s possessed yet

[carmine citrus]

ok

[severe nymph]

On possession would be used there

If you don’t spawn then posess immediately

[carmine citrus]

ok

[severe nymph]

Usually in my character class I have an event setup to init vars

I spawn from gamemode and posess

Then pull from the spawned class return

Init vars

That way you control the logic flow

[carmine citrus]

I want to do that, spawn from game mode, but I haven't gotten that far yet

[severe nymph]

It’s easy

[carmine citrus]

I want to have N spawn locations, and setup the characters from there. but

baby steps lol

[severe nymph]

On gamemode handle new player

[carmine citrus]

ah

ok, and do i query the world for the spawn locations?

[severe nymph]

Call get all actors of class playerstart on begin play of gamemode

Store a ref

Array

[carmine citrus]

kk, thanks uno

[severe nymph]

On handle player start reference it

Then spawn character class at get random int of reference

Then init var from the class output ref

[carmine citrus]

yep, thanks

[severe nymph]

If you want health and things to be character specific keep in the actor

[carmine citrus]

yea

[severe nymph]

If you want it player specific keep in controller or playerstate

[carmine citrus]

thats how i have it now

[severe nymph]

But remember it doesn’t reinit

Controller is almost persistent

But that’s good for some things

Just not handling death

Or character specific vars

Health etc

[carmine citrus]

https://giphy.com/gifs/the-more-you-know-83QtfwKWdmSEo

[severe nymph]

Use playerstate to feed the characters health only if you need other clients to know it

I usually only feed kills

http://cedric-neukirchen.net/Downloads/Compendium/UE4_Network_Compendium_by_Cedric_eXi_Neukirchen.pdf

One of the best docs

[carmine citrus]

Oh nice! thanks

[lucid vault]

Why on earth does ChoosePlayerStart run BEFORE BeginPlay in GameMode???

That's really annoying as my spawn points aren't initialized

I guess I'l need to initialize them once in ChoosePlayerStart if they haven't been initialized. Kinda crap design, but I see no other choice 😐

[wicked brook]

@lucid vault you need to get reference before

[peak sentinel]

check if "!=" ?

[lucid vault]

What do you mean by get reference before?

[peak sentinel]

@lucid vault cant you just check for if spawn points are nullptr or not?

[lucid vault]

Yeah, that's basically what I did. It just felt gross to check that in ChoosePlayerStart

[peak sentinel]

well its not a shame 😄

[lucid vault]

Does ChoosePlayerStart only get called on the initial spawn?

What function would you override for getting respawn points after RestartPlayer is called

According to the documentation, ChoosePlayerStart should get called on RestartPlayer, but it only gets called on initial spawn for me

[peak sentinel]

as far as i know it should be called after new players initialized

so again as far as i know its normal to get called before beginplay

[lucid vault]

Hmm. I guess I should just use RestartPlayerAtPlayerStart for respawns

[wicked brook]

you using bp? show a screenshot of what you have

[lucid vault]

c++

[wicked brook]

ah ok. what i normally dont use chooseplayerstart

i normally save an array of all the player starts then use what i want from there on spawn

[lucid vault]

I just extracted my choose spawn point logic into a function to be used in ChoosePlayerStart for initial spawns and RestartPlayerAtPlayerStart for respawns

[vale ermine]

so if I need to copy data from one session to the next session, I would need to write the data to the database destroy session. Then, I would read database to apply changes to the session being joined to?

The problem I see with that would be the amount of objects created during those queries.

That is if the session being joined to was a dedicated session that only goes down one time per week.

do clients need to be packaged with all maps/game content? Each session only has one map? When a session loads its map the client will load it because its included in the client build package?

[tranquil yoke]

Hi guys, How would i replicate a skeletal mesh, skeletal mesh is generating in real time on server, but client does not have this.

Will it be possible, if generate skeletal meshes in server, then save all the generated meshes to a Array, and then replicate that array, and get all the meshes from that ???

[winged badger]

generating in real time, how?

replicating skeletal mesh component is generally unadvisable, because it can cause jittering combined with CMC

[tranquil yoke]

its a glb file, which i get from server, then using a plugin called gilf runtime, i converts to skeletal mesh

[winged badger]

you should teach the clients to do it

skeletal mesh asset is a lot of data to replicate

not to mention, its next to useless without animations

[tranquil yoke]

Can you please describe the model of replication.

I can generate them on client, it is working fine.
i can generate them on server, it is working fine.

But somehow clients cannot see each other Meshes.

I am not sure why

@winged badger Most of them are procedural animation, IK and stuff.

[winged badger]

you'll need to generate them with the same seed

[tranquil yoke]

you'll need to generate them with the same seed
@winged badger what do you mean by seed ?

[winged badger]

you need a FRandomStream generated with a replicated seed

then use that stream to generate all random in your procedural generation

or they will never match on clients and server

and since the seed is just int32, that is easy to replicate

[tranquil yoke]

Is there any example of this,

[winged badger]

scroll a few hours up on #cpp , i did explain it once today in detail

if your plugin can't handle random stream though, you're in for a rewrite or just plain out of luck

[tranquil yoke]

okay thanks

actually it is solved, if i dont try to load the mesh very early, and do it after some times, then everything works out fine

@winged badger I did teach all the clients to do the runtime generation, that helped, thanks for your help

[vale ermine]

so I am looking at a dedicated server for login. Login server has shard selection map. If player is new load shard selections map. If player has a shard, change player to shard dedicated server. Each shard needs to spin up instances for dungeons and maps that players play on. When session is over it sets database with rewards exp ect, players return to shard map and shard map updates rewards to shards player database. Does this sound correct?

[twin juniper]

Hey, is it any place when I can put breakpoint or check why client is disconnected from local dedicated server? I saw only this in console:
[2020.09.27-09.47.34:614][176]LogNet: UChannel::ReceivedSequencedBunch: Bunch.bClose == true. ChIndex == 0. Calling ConditionalCleanUp.

[keen warren]

ROOKIE!

[plucky sigil]

@winged badger Can components in unreal used in the same way as components in Unity ?

[kindred widget]

@plucky sigil If I read the description of a Unity Component correctly, then yes. Simple UActorComponents are non physical components, like the CharacterMovementComponent, anything that requires a world transform like a StaticMeshComponent needs to be a USceneComponent.

[plucky sigil]

@kindred widget So it would be best to modularify codes into components ?

Such that each component is a modular mechanic/feature, if that object needs it, attach that component ?

[kindred widget]

Depends on your case and preference of style, but in general, sure. Some classes even use Components so as to not over complicate the class itself. Character being a good example. Instead of doing all of the movement in Character, they moved it to a component which cleans up a lot of space in a character class.

I think it's more of an OOP thing though. If you can make a component that can be attached to different objects to achieve the same goal, that's better than copy pasting the code into each class individually when you can just add that component and set some defaults. Or on much larger classes you can also compartmentalize large blocks of codebase into other objects(components) to simplify the class.

[keen warren]

NOPE!

[plucky sigil]

OOF

Nope to what

[keen warren]

components being used the same way in unity as unreal.

[plucky sigil]

How should they be used ?

[kindred widget]

If Unity's GameObject is the same thing as an Unreal Actor, then it's more or less the same thing.

[keen warren]

unfortunately they are far apart.

[plucky sigil]

So i should not modularify mechanics into components ?

[kindred widget]

Not sure if this guy is trolling or not.

[keen warren]

8 years . but i appreciate the compliment

[plucky sigil]

So what do you suggest ?

[keen warren]

continue component development , it just has nothing to do with how unity does anything.

[plucky sigil]

But the paradigm is the same/similar right ?

[keen warren]

NOPE!
@keen warren

[kindred widget]

Unity GameObject description "Base class for all entities in Unity Scenes"
Unreal AActor description "Actor is the base class for an Object that can be placed or spawned in a level."
Unity Component Description "Base class for everything attached to GameObjects"
Unreal UActorComponent Description "ActorComponent is the base class for components that define reusable behavior that can be added to different types of Actors."

[plucky sigil]

So how are they different

[kindred widget]

I'd be interested to know that as well, since they're explained as the exact same thing.

[keen warren]

Are you coming from a unity background ?

[plucky sigil]

Yes

[keen warren]

ok. let me help you out. delete everything

if your build is not from source

which is roughly this big

[gleaming niche]

oh they're similar. but nto the same.

close, but not 1:1

[keen warren]

i know what your thinking. wtf

whelp this is really the only way to produce a game for multiplayer production.

[plucky sigil]

But you havent answered my question

[keen warren]

which is the difference. i dont have time. but i will say the hierarchy doesn't work the same among many others.

[gleaming niche]

the concept of adding a bunch of monobehaviors onto the single game object, that part is nearly the same.

that's like a bunch of actorcomponents

but then a scene component, is like adding a child game object

has it's own transform, etc

at the lowest level, they are the same

but it starts to diverge in certain areas, like with collision

there is a forum post somewhere like 3 or 4 years ago, when I was bitching about this

cuz i wanted to do something in unreal, that i could do in 30 seconds in unity

and never did find a solution for it

and it was because of teh components.

now, i don't work on that project anymore, so i forgot about it, until this discussion

[keen warren]

oh dam

NOPE!
@keen warren

[gleaming niche]

i think scooby has smoked too many scoobie snacks.

[keen warren]

lol

check this: (last 24 hours.) i developed a method to increase your odds of winning the lottery by 25%.

i know what your thinking wtf

[meager spade]

...

[echo temple]

Hello guys! Please help me out, I've been completely stuck with this problem for a few days. I'm doing replicated targeting (soulslike) and the thing is, I need to replicate setControlRotation. It works fine on the client, but other players cant see each others updated rotation. If I pass the same target, that I pass to clients setControlRotation call, it gets lots somewhere, if I pass player controller 0 index to server call, it changes everyones rotation. I've also tried getting all player controllers and looping through them and also setting init variable, still no luck. Thanks a lot!

https://blueprintue.com/blueprint/oxu3vaam/
https://blueprintue.com/blueprint/pjjvzeh2/ (the first event is Run on Server and reliable, and the second one is multicast)

[keen warren]

help3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDRoglljXjo

[echo temple]

Thanks, but I can google myself! I've read docs/watched a bunch of videos and replicated some of existing functionality, but I'm new to this and I can't get my head around on how to handle controllers and setControlRotation in this example, so maybe you can point me out in the right direction instead?

[keen warren]

wait let me re-read your post

ok so , one of the fundamental problems your facing is inside the video i posted.. so while you might be a google search master. The video gives you the answers. its only 11 minutes long take it slow. pay attention. try to understand what hes doing.

[keen warren]

ok so based on that its been like a half hour. either you don't care. or Scooby is winning. its ok if you want Scooby to be winning. because Scooby has a nasty habit of winning lately .

[meager spade]

someone's got a big ego.. or is trying to make up for something.. 🙂

[echo temple]

big ego + schizophrenia I guess

[keen warren]

Just checked , no complaints

I mean who doesn't want an upgrade though

[plucky sigil]

Can someone explain to me what the difference between Client Server NetMulticast

[neon mango]

@plucky sigil http://cedric-neukirchen.net/Downloads/Compendium/UE4_Network_Compendium_by_Cedric_eXi_Neukirchen.pdf Page 60-62

[echo temple]

@keen warren it didn't work btw

[plucky sigil]

@neon mango Do you know if OnRep function, you need to call manually ?

[meager spade]

no

unless its server, server does not call it

[plucky sigil]

Why are there people saying that you do ?

[meager spade]

(in BP it is called on server)

but OnRep is always called on clients when a property changes

BP RepNotify is slightly different to OnRep in C++. Server will never call OnRep function in C++, but it will in Blueprint with RepNotify.

soo in C++ you only call it if you need to when you are the server.

[plucky sigil]

I would like to know, if i want to set something, would i need to do it like this ?

void AMM_Character::SetCharacterType(ECharacterType InCharacterType)
{
    if (HasAuthority())
    {
        SetCharacterType_NetMulticast(InCharacterType);
    }
    else
    {
        SetCharacterType_Server(InCharacterType);
    }
}

UFUNCTION(Server, Reliable, WithValidation)
void SetCharacterType_Server(ECharacterType InCharacterType)
bool SetCharacterType_Server_Validate(ECharacterType InCharacterType)
{
    return true;
}
void SetCharacterType_Server_Implementation(ECharacterType InCharacterType)
{
    SetCharacterType_NetMulticast(InCharacterType);
}

UFUNCTION(NetMulticast, Reliable)
void SetCharacterType_NetMulticast(ECharacterType InCharacterType)
void SetCharacterType_NetMulticast_Implementation(ECharacterType InCharacterType)
{
    // Do the stuff here
}

[meager spade]

why not just make it a ReplicatedProp ?

[plucky sigil]

Is that the right way to do things ?

[meager spade]

ECharacterType CharacterType;

UFUNCTION()
void OnRep_CharacterType();

void SetCharacterType(ECharacterType InCharacterType);

void AMyChar::SetCharacterType(ECharacterType InCharacterType)
{
    if (HasAuthority())
    {
        CharacterType = InCharacterType;
    }

    //Do your char setup here
}

void AMyChar::OnRep_CharacterType()
{
  SetCharacterType(CharacterType);
}

void AMyChar::GetLifetimeReplicatedProps(TArray<FLifetimeProperty>& OutLifetimeProps) const
{
    Super::GetLifetimeReplicatedProps(OutLifetimeProps);
    
    DOREPLIFETIME(AMyChar, CharacterType);
}

then you only ever have to call SetCharacterType on the server

no multicast needed

[plucky sigil]

Why not

[meager spade]

this is the proper way.

[plucky sigil]

I want to know why this is the proper way

[meager spade]

Multicast is for one off things, like explosion effects, etc

[plucky sigil]

Why have there been people saying

To use multicast

[meager spade]

where?

[plucky sigil]

Like Youtube tutorials

Forums

[meager spade]

cause mostly all of them suck

[plucky sigil]

And then people say

[meager spade]

or are from newbs.

[plucky sigil]

Call OnRep manually

[meager spade]

you should never multicast critical things like this

[echo temple]

Hello guys! Please help me out, I've been completely stuck with this problem for a few days. I'm doing replicated targeting (soulslike) and the thing is, I need to replicate setControlRotation. It works fine on the client, but other players cant see each others updated rotation. If I pass the same target, that I pass to clients setControlRotation call, it gets lots somewhere, if I pass player controller 0 index to server call, it changes everyones rotation. I've also tried getting all player controllers and looping through them and also setting init variable, still no luck. Thanks a lot!
https://blueprintue.com/blueprint/oxu3vaam/
https://blueprintue.com/blueprint/pjjvzeh2/ (the first event is Run on Server and reliable, and the second one is multicast)
@echo temple anyone?

[meager spade]

how about if someone joins the game late?

they would not see the correct character type of that player/pawn

[keen warren]

Lol

[meager spade]

with a OnRep property, they will always see the correct type

[neon mango]

is it possible to force a player to reconnect?

[meager spade]

that would be down to your implementation

ofc its possible, but how depends on your OSS

[neon mango]

GameSession has a kick player

I'm wanting to try DCing them and telling them to join again

[meager spade]

you need to keep details about the previous session they were in

[neon mango]

But automatically

[meager spade]

then just connect like normal

[plucky sigil]

Why isnt there a Server function

Or its in the HasAuthority check

[meager spade]

Server function is only required if client needs to tell the server

so if client picks a character type, then you would need a Server RPC to call SetCharacterType

[plucky sigil]

But in this case, Server is telling client what type ?

[meager spade]

server is just setting the property

(the CharacterType to whatever InCharacterType was)

if client needs to tell server to set character type, then you need a server rpc

void ServerSetCharacterType(ECharacterType InCharacterType) { SetCharacterType(InCharacterType); }```

[plucky sigil]

What if client does some action, and from their actions, it changes the character type of a client's character, then we need a server rpc ?

[meager spade]

only if client decides he should change character type

if server does, then no need.

please read the compendium in the pinned

it explains all of this

[plucky sigil]

👌

[meager spade]

i will answer specific questions

but you need to understand the fundamental basics 🙂

[keen warren]

someone's got a big ego.. or is trying to make up for something.. 🙂
@meager spade

[meager spade]

?

[keen warren]

Oh i just giggled when your logic was legit but mine made me a big ego skitzo

[meager spade]

i never said anything about skitzo though

[plucky sigil]

@meager spade I dont understand how i can change another character's character type

Its owned by different client

[gleaming niche]

server has authority of everyone.

[meager spade]

what you mean, owned by different client?

[plucky sigil]

Im looking at the table

[meager spade]

right?

[plucky sigil]

Im confused

[meager spade]

i can tell

let's break this down a bit

[kindred widget]

@plucky sigil Ownership simply allows a client to use that actor to talk to the server. Setting something on that client owned actor on the server will still change it on the client as well.

[plucky sigil]

By the way, what i want to do is. line trace to a player and change its character type

Which will change the color of the character

[meager spade]

/* Header File */

//The current players Character Type.
UPROPERTY(ReplicatedUsing = OnRep_CharacterType)
ECharacterType CharacterType;

//Called on clients when the above Character Type changes.
UFUNCTION()
void OnRep_CharacterType();

//This is the function that sets the character type, the meshes, etc. Runs on both client and server.
//Server calls this directly, client calls this via the OnRep.
void SetCharacterType(ECharacterType InCharacterType);

//Allows the client to ask server to change their character type.
UFUNCTION(Server, Reliable)
void ServerSetCharacterType(ECharacterType InCharacterType) { SetCharacterType(InCharacterType); }

/* CPP File */
void AMyChar::SetCharacterType(ECharacterType InCharacterType)
{ 
    //if this was called on server, we set the CharacterType so clients can run this function via the OnRep.
    if (HasAuthority())
    {
        CharacterType = InCharacterType;
    }

    //Do your char setup here, change meshes, colours etc.
}

//Called on clients.
void AMyChar::OnRep_CharacterType()
{
//Just run the above function, to setup meshes, etc.
  SetCharacterType(CharacterType);
}

void AMyChar::GetLifetimeReplicatedProps(TArray<FLifetimeProperty>& OutLifetimeProps) const
{
    Super::GetLifetimeReplicatedProps(OutLifetimeProps);
    
//Allows the character type to replicate.
    DOREPLIFETIME(AMyChar, CharacterType);
}```

so what don't you understand ?

[plucky sigil]

The code isnt doing what its supposed to do

And i dont understand why

[meager spade]

does you code look like mine above?

[plucky sigil]

Only the server is able to change character type

The client isnt

[meager spade]

show me your code

all of it, dont miss things cause you think its not relevant

[plucky sigil]

FLinearColor AMM_Character::GetCharacterTypeColor(ECharacterType InCharacterType) const
{
    FLinearColor Result;

    switch (InCharacterType)
    {
    case ECharacterType::ECT_NULL:
        Result = FLinearColor::Black;
        break;
    case ECharacterType::ECT_INNOCENT:
        Result = FLinearColor::Green;
        break;
    case ECharacterType::ECT_IMPOSTER:
        Result = FLinearColor::Yellow;
        break;
    case ECharacterType::ECT_DEAD:
        Result = FLinearColor::Red;
        break;
    }

    return Result;
}

void AMM_Character::ChangeCharacterType()
{
    USkeletalMeshComponent* MeshComponent = FindComponentByClass<USkeletalMeshComponent>();
    UMaterialInterface* Material = MeshComponent->GetMaterial(0);

    const FName CharacterTypeMaterialName = "CharacterType";

    if (Material->GetName() != CharacterTypeMaterialName.ToString())
    {
        DynamicMaterial = UMaterialInstanceDynamic::Create(Material, this, CharacterTypeMaterialName);
        MeshComponent->SetMaterial(0, DynamicMaterial);
    }

    if (DynamicMaterial) DynamicMaterial->SetVectorParameterValue(TEXT("BodyColor"), GetCharacterTypeColor(CharacterType));
}

void AMM_Character::GetLifetimeReplicatedProps(TArray<FLifetimeProperty>& OutLifetimeProps) const
{
    Super::GetLifetimeReplicatedProps(OutLifetimeProps);

    DOREPLIFETIME(AMM_Character, CharacterType);
}

void AMM_Character::OnRep_CharacterType()
{
    SetCharacterType(CharacterType);
}

bool AMM_Character::ServerSetCharacterType_Validate(ECharacterType InCharacterType)
{
    return true;
}

void AMM_Character::ServerSetCharacterType_Implementation(ECharacterType InCharacterType)
{
    SetCharacterType(InCharacterType);
}

void AMM_Character::OnInteract(AMM_Character* FromCharacter)
{
    if (FromCharacter->GetCharacterType() == ECharacterType::ECT_IMPOSTER)
    {
        ServerSetCharacterType(ECharacterType::ECT_DEAD);
    }
}

[meager spade]

and your header

[plucky sigil]

void AMM_Character::SetCharacterType(ECharacterType InCharacterType)
{
    if (HasAuthority())
    {
        CharacterType = InCharacterType;
    }

    ChangeCharacterType();
}

[meager spade]

remove that destruct for a start

always UPROPERTY UObjects

https://www.thegames.dev/snaps/opera_obTVAt4RnT.png

this should have UPROPERTY() above it

[plucky sigil]

.

[meager spade]

no

[plucky sigil]

Or not ?

[meager spade]

just put UPROPERTY()

like that

if it doesn't need to be exposed to bp, etc

[plucky sigil]

done

[meager spade]

so i can't see anything obvious so maybe its time to start using breakpoints or logging.

[plucky sigil]

I changed the multicast to server

[meager spade]

oh right

that would cause it

i swear in my code above, i had Server..

[plucky sigil]

You did

You do

[meager spade]

so does it work now

[plucky sigil]

Just that i was testing out Client, Sever, Netmulticast

Ill test again

[meager spade]

btw

[plucky sigil]

void AMM_Character::OnInteract(AMM_Character* FromCharacter)
{
    if (FromCharacter->GetCharacterType() == ECharacterType::ECT_MURDERER)
    {
        ServerSetCharacterType(ECharacterType::ECT_DEAD);
    }
}

[meager spade]

you don't need _Validate nor _Implemtation in the header

https://www.thegames.dev/snaps/opera_4DxA6ZVKgU.png those can be removed from headr

and Validate is not needed anymore, unless you specify WithValidation

[plucky sigil]

Is OnInteract correct

[meager spade]

if that is called locally, yes

[plucky sigil]

So it doesnt work

I tried adding breakpoints

It breaks inside the if

if (FromCharacter->GetCharacterType() == ECharacterType::ECT_MURDERER)
{
    ServerSetCharacterType(ECharacterType::ECT_DEAD);
}

And thats it

[meager spade]

did you put a breakpoint in the Server RPC?

[plucky sigil]

Yep

[meager spade]

and it never hit?

[plucky sigil]

Ill rebuild solution

[meager spade]

what is the role of the actor

when its called

[plucky sigil]

Murderer

[meager spade]

no

ActorRole

[plucky sigil]

Should be no authority

Ill check again

When i finish rebuilding

[meager spade]

ok

[plucky sigil]

SimulatedProxy

[meager spade]

why is simulated proxy calling it

[plucky sigil]

Dont know

[meager spade]

simulated proxy should never call it

you understand what Simulated, Autonomous, etc are right?

[plucky sigil]

Auto is a client

[meager spade]

to me it seems like you are calling that function

from another client

instead of the other client, asking the server to do it

but why its from simulated, i have no idea

without looking at how your OnInteract works

[plucky sigil]

What do you mean by from another client

@meager spade Do you know how i can fix this

[silent frost]

Hey, so im making a multiplayer game, and we want to different world you acess with an elevator, Is Level streaming okay for multiplayer? Otherwise, can world composition work vertically?

[kindred widget]

@plucky sigil Doesn't the CharacterType UPROPERTY need to be replicated?

Oh, it is, missed that at the bottom of the header. But in short, you should just need the client to line trace, get the character pointer, then use a locally owned actor like their own character or player controller to call a Server RPC to set that pointer's CharacterType on the server. Then when it replicates, your ReplicatedUsing function can change the material parameter or whatever.

[plucky sigil]

@kindred widget @meager spade Dont worry about it i fixed it

[jagged flax]

Is there any solution for vehicle physics replication lag?

[stuck pilot]

hi

[broken warren]

Hi I want to save in my multiplayer how many wins the player has, how does that work? (if he leaves the game it should remain )

[foggy idol]

save the info in a save game object

[broken warren]

Does it work in multiplayer to?

[plucky sigil]

How anyone know how to line trace on multiplayer so it doesnt return simulated proxy

[foggy idol]

as long as all you want to do is store their wins locally it should be fine

[shrewd tinsel]

hi, why my branch always fails? https://i.imgur.com/CioWah9.png

if i dont use the branch it all works, but i want to exclude the gunshot sound causer

[foggy idol]

are you trying to play mono and stereo audio

like audio only the player can hear

or audio only others can hear ?

[shrewd tinsel]

audio only others can hear

[foggy idol]

because if you are id suggest using an is locally controlled node instead

thats how i handle footsteps

[shrewd tinsel]

can you elaborate a little?

whats a locally controlled node?

[foggy idol]

lemme open up ue4

what i mean is like instead of that owner == self check try replacing it with an is locally controlled node

[shrewd tinsel]

oh

right

[foggy idol]

@broken warren saving and loading is done locally so even if you do it during a multiplayer match it would only happen locally

it all depends on where you do it

id suggest that at the end of each game the player controller adds the win if the player won

tho there may be a better approach

@shrewd tinsel if you still dont understand i mean like this

true is for the local player

and false is for everyone else

i use this so i play foosteps as 2d for the player and 3d for everyone else

the is Player Controlled is because i have bots so they always play 3d audio

[shrewd tinsel]

thank you

im trying it right now

[foggy idol]

tho theres a much more efficient approach if your using C++

[shrewd tinsel]

whats that?

[foggy idol]

the sound node used in shooter game

i havent integrated it yet but i plan to

that way you can setup different audio in the sound cue for the local player and the others

[stuck pilot]

hey i have a problem can you solve it with me money will be given.

[thin stratus]

@stuck pilot #looking-for-talent and you should state the actual problem.

[stuck pilot]

Thank you

But you don 't permission problem?

[foggy idol]

@shrewd tinsel after trying it out i managed to integrate it without any issues

[thin stratus]

Checked the pinned messages in that channel

[foggy idol]

question - What should i make un realiable in a first person shooter

and are particles automatically pooled ?

[plucky sigil]

Do you know why line trace returns simulated proxy ?

[echo snow]

I'm trying to get everyones camera to shift upwards as more people connect, it works but no one actually gets affected by it. Can somebody tell me why it's not working?

[plucky sigil]

Does anyone know how to line trace in multiplayer ?>

[peak sentinel]

same as cpp/bp? just replicate the variable to server?

[plucky sigil]

Who you talking to ?

[peak sentinel]

you

[plucky sigil]

Im having the issue where

The line trace returns a simulated proxy

And i need to do something with it

But i cant

Maybe im doing it wrong ?

[bitter swift]

I have a question.
So I've already made a game where you can host a server (as a client) and have other clients join you.
I know that the other alternative is to use a dedicated server. So I had a thought...
If the host-client is not participating in the game, then he technically works as a "server". Is there any way that I can minimize the game or have it run on a console window and then simply have the host-client open up a new game and join himself as a mere client?

Don't know if this is strange thinking when I could just get into making a dedicated server instead. It just seems convenient to be able to actually initiate a dedicated server from the in-game menu that I already have.

[lilac bear]

@bitter swift absolutely, I've done similar things myself from a gamer perspective, I'd be shocked if UE4 did not permit that scenario.

[keen warren]

@bitter swift your going to want to make a dedicated server. Which runs headless/console.

Make about 200 gigs room. And clone source files from github

[bitter swift]

Alright @keen warren thank you :)
I was gonna look into it either way.

[keen warren]

Its going to seem complicated at first but once you really try to work with it. Its simple. And unreal supply documentation

[icy locust]

I'm having some issues with network checksums and the player controller, is anyone around for help?

[plucky sigil]

Anyone know how to fix
No owning connection for actor

[meager spade]

yes, you are calling a Server/Client RPC on an actor which does not have a owner

[plucky sigil]

Is it because of the line trace ?

[meager spade]

no..

[plucky sigil]

What do i do

[meager spade]

find out what RPC you are sending in an actor that is not owned by a player

[chilly orchid]

since i dont know how to use the unrealbot im gonna ask here i have a game that i want to add multiplayer support on via steam only thing is i know nothing about networking so i am willing to pay someone to add steam multiplayer support on blueprint to my project DM me with what you think is a fair price if intrested

[plucky sigil]

What do i do after that

[meager spade]

@chilly orchid check the pinned message in #looking-for-talent

it explains what to do

[chilly orchid]

ok

[tidal venture]

Hey someone know why "Set ignore move input" doesn't work directly when the game start?

I want my pawn to be "stuck" until every user get connected and somehow I have to delay the function to make it work under dedicated server

[bitter swift]

I'm trying to create a dedicated server following Unreal Engine's own documentation. I have run into a problem when building my project's ServerTarget class with Development Server as my Solution Configuration.
The error I get says "Server targets are not currently supported from this engine distribution".
Does anyone know how to fix this error?
UE4 Dedicated Server link: https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/Gameplay/Networking/HowTo/DedicatedServers/index.html

PS: I previously changed my project version to source and Build the whole project in visual studio. That created the server files I needed but I wasn't able to package that project as a server after that. I got an error saying something similar about the targets.

[peak sentinel]

Does calling Client RPC on tick sucks as calling a Server function on tick too?

[lost inlet]

you have to use a source build of the engine @bitter swift

and if this is showing incorrectly the engine association might be still using the launcher version

you can change the engine association by right clicking your uproject file and selecting the source build

you could also try building it from unrealfrontend

[verbal gust]

how do you properly use "Owner no see"? I am trying to spawn an actor on the server but only visible to clients. Setting "Owner no see" doesn't work

[peak sentinel]

Clients do not own other clients

[lost inlet]

@peak sentinel i don't understand your question

if you call an RPC on the client or server, it'll be called on the other end the same number of times

[bitter swift]

you can change the engine association by right clicking your uproject file and selecting the source build
@lost inlet
You mean like this, yeah?

[lost inlet]

yes

[peak sentinel]

Sorry sswires, I tried to ask if I use Client RPC on the Tick(); would it affect the performance of server?

So many people told me calling a RPC in tick not a good idea

[lost inlet]

well yes unless your throttle it in some way

a high framerate client will be more of a strain on the server than a low framerate client

and the people who told you that were right

[peak sentinel]

So if its a function just about graphics/visuals its fine i guess

Just gonna highlight some objects

[lost inlet]

why is that an RPC at all?

and why does that need to be every frame

[peak sentinel]

Not sure, just following Tom Looman's tutorials

[lost inlet]

networking in BP, rip

[peak sentinel]

totally

but its just a simple interaction

[lost inlet]

why does the above involve networking at all

the only thing you need to send to the server is when the interaction actually happens

[peak sentinel]

thats what i do, but the previous screenshot is from interactibleactor Bp

[lost inlet]

i don't follow

either you've missed a big part of the tutorial or the tutorial is asking you to do weird things

[peak sentinel]

i am kinda dizzy today, maybe i might not expressed myself in proper way, sorry

but i got the answer, thanks

not gonna use RPC on tick

[prisma crescent]

Doesn't seem to strange to me? Server is handling picking of any actor, sending results to client.

[lost inlet]

well i'd hate to see your netcode then

highlighting an interactive object could happen on the client almost exclusively with nothing over the network

[peak sentinel]

why should i even use a RPC for graphics events tho?

it is necessariy?

[lost inlet]

when you press the interaction key, the client tells the server "i'm using this" and that's the only thing that really needs client->server

[peak sentinel]

i was just copying the tutorial

[prisma crescent]

@lost inlet That's what I assumed it did. Looked closer and realized what it was actually doing.

[peak sentinel]

That was what Tom Looman wrote about that;

"Note: I’m replicating this to the client because we are only doing local visual updates that must run on client-side, if you are handling gameplay logic in the tick you should consider changing the blueprint to run on the server instead (or run parts on server, others on client). For now leave it as is below."

[lost inlet]

so it's actually intentionally like that? weird

[prisma crescent]

It does seem like it can be handled on the client

[lost inlet]

remember, take everything you learn from a single tutorial with a pinch of salt, not everything will be a best practise

[peak sentinel]

When it comes to replication its hard to find a proper "replication tutorial" in the end lol

I will learn it from the hard way anyway

[prisma crescent]

Have you dug through this? http://cedric-neukirchen.net/Downloads/Compendium/UE4_Network_Compendium_by_Cedric_eXi_Neukirchen.pdf

[peak sentinel]

Yeah, without that I would already give up

[lost inlet]

well networking can be difficult, but i tend to stay on the side of network if you need to

ie. networking as little as possible, keeping RPCs as light and infrequently called as possible

[bitter swift]

@lost inlet building the project as Development Editor and Development Server seems to take a while after I changed the version. There's a lot to build now. Is this normal?

[lost inlet]

well depending on your system, it is normal for it to take a while if you're building a target for the first time

development editor and development server are different targets

[peak sentinel]

I almost got the basics, there are just few topics seems harder than others to me; getting access to unique players (or their controllers) and movement events

[bitter swift]

development editor and development server are different targets
@lost inlet I'm fully aware. I have to do both according to the guide 😉

[lost inlet]

also you can cut it down a bit if you disable plugins you don't use and that kind of thing

never "build solution"

[bitter swift]

oh... Build Solution is exactly what I did :S

[peak sentinel]

never "build solution"
i always "build solution" when my engine crashed unexpectedly

whats wrong with it?

[lost inlet]

if you use binary build, nothing. if you use source build, everything

because it will build EVERYTHING

even stuff you don't use

[bitter swift]

How should I build it then? Only the Server.Target file?

[lost inlet]

build the game project only

[bitter swift]

I just canceled the build. Will they cancel everything it had already build? Or do I have to make a new project?

[lost inlet]

ie. have a source file from your project open and in visual studio select "Build <ProjectName>"

[peak sentinel]

so if i have a badass(?) CPU and i dont care about wasting my time would that affect me or is it about something corruption of project files?

[lost inlet]

well do you use a source build or not

if you do you're wasting a lot of time

and cancelling the build won't do any harm most of the time

a development editor build from scratch on the project level with a ryzen threadripper 3960x, 64GB of RAM and on a SATA SSD takes about 10-12 minutes

[prisma crescent]

lol rebuilding from engine takes a couple of hours on a regular low-end gaming pc

such a pain

[lost inlet]

my old i7 didn't take that long unless you were also building solution

my old i7 was like 25-30 mins

[peak sentinel]

i had a i3 before, i feel your suffering

[prisma crescent]

It may have hit some OS bottleneck, but I remember seeing 340 minutes for a build time once.

[lost inlet]

i've never had a build that long

[prisma crescent]

Also found that downgrading to regular VS without VA can kill find-references/search times.

[peak sentinel]

Use Rider 😄

[prisma crescent]

It was a rare occurrence, but 20-30 minute range was average.

[peak sentinel]

Rider even handles the "_Implementation" on your functions if they are replicated

Also warns if they are not Validated + gives info about blueprint usage of that function

[bitter swift]

my Server build seems to take around 20 minutes. I hope this is normal.

After changing the project back to 4.25 I got this error message 😭

[peak sentinel]

Well that was expected actually 😄

[bitter swift]

I'm opening it with source now. But it's taking a while

[bitter swift]

I finished packaging the dedicated server. How do I package the original game for the clients? I packaged the same project using the regular Build Target instead of targeting the server.
But it's taknig a loooong time. I feel like I'm doing something very wrong

EDIT: Nevermind. It works! I just tested it 😄

Thank you @lost inlet for the aid!

[hybrid wren]

HI there, I want to do a multiplayer mode where 2 team are playing against each others. Each team play on a map (map is the same, just different "instances"). I want players be able to go the enemy map when it's possible to. I have no idea how to have two map for a single game. Can anyone point me in the right direction ? I looked at level streaming but I'm not sure it is what I need. Thanks 😉

[near bison]

@hybrid wren why won't level streaming/load level instance work?

[hybrid wren]

I'm not sure if it what I need because I don't know all the possibilities. I'm new to the engine and even more to multiplayer stuff so it's hard to tell if it the right solution the first time you look at it.

[near bison]

Also look into using gameInstance properly. You'll need your player/game state to be the same when jumping from level to level I'm guessing

I think level streaming will fit your bill. Not sure what your exact use case is but it's the right direction, probably

[hybrid wren]

ok, I'll dig deeper into the documentation of level streaming. thanks 😉

[near bison]

Anyone have any idea how Fortnite is often able to handle 70-100 players in one area?
Have they significantly modified their engine's netcode to the point where their packet sizes (for movement, line traces etc) are significantly smaller?

Or is it just massive vertical scaling?

Or is each game actually handled by a distributed system also talking to a central server?

I've watched their replication graph video, is the only thing they're doing preserving bandwidth on their actor replication wherever possible?

[bitter oriole]

The engine is definitely custom - UE4 releases are based on Fortnite's engine and yes, they preserve bandwidth as much as possible, but most of that work is on the game side, not engine side

No distributed servers, just a regular dedicated

[near bison]

That's insane.
Initially I thought they were rolling with the assumption that their spatial grids will take care of everything since 100 players won't drop in the same place.

But then I saw that Travis Scott event where there were so many people in 1 area

[bitter oriole]

Bandwidth isn't even that much of an issue tbh, CPU is

[peak sentinel]

I assume this is %95 about relevancy

[near bison]

I was just thinking in the context of MMOs. If I were to build an MMO server, would I have to take apart rhe server and rewrite parts of it or could I go with how the existing dedicated server is built

Assume I take care of sharding by spatial locality of players

Each shard is its own dedicated server

[bitter oriole]

Most MMO style developers today go with fully instanced games anyway

Getting enough sales to populate a traditional MMO is a losing bet for all but AAA production budgets

[near bison]

The fact that most MMO games today are instanced is sad to hear, and also true

I thought of building just an MMO server as a hobby project without tinkering around too much with what the client actually does, but I don't wanna have to break into UE4's netcode and figure out packet compression and the like

[bitter oriole]

UE4 is not a great deal for even a MMO client, you'll have to throw away all the good stuff in it

All of the networking, and thus all of the gameplay framework

It's a nice renderer I guess

[near bison]

Wonder what games like Ashes of Creation are doingb

They're using UE4 btw

Reckon they're using something like spatialOS?

[rose egret]

I think if you write your own dedicated server it can easily handle 300 player in one instance 🤔

[bitter oriole]

SpatialOS killed at least one game already so I wouldn't look that way tbh

And "your own dedicated server" can have 10k players

It's all about what it has to do

[near bison]

Let's assume it has to do nothing but handle a few Characters running around

Are there any guides on building dedicated servers?

[rose egret]

@bitter oriole wouldn't be any bandwidth packet send/receive rate limit ?

[bitter oriole]

Character is going to break down after 50 or so players

@rose egret These can be changed

The problem with UE4 isn't the engine networking stack, it's specifically stuff like Character that is way way too expensive for an MMO (almost to oepxensive for a BR already)

[rose egret]

🤔

[bitter oriole]

Anyway MMO is a recurring joke in game dev because no one can afford the players for one

The tech isn't even the issue

[twin juniper]

Go on stranger.

[near bison]

Is UE4 useless then if I'm not using the netcode on Character. I guess it's easier to write a rendering engine for something like that without all the bloat rightb

[bitter oriole]

If you're doing an MMO, your team of 50 network engineers should use a custom engine most of the time

[twin juniper]

I mean.. youre assuming scale.

[bitter oriole]

The M in MMO is for "massive"

[karmic briar]

Ashes of creation is using stormancer as their networking backend

https://www.stormancer.com/

[near bison]

Oooo what's stormancer

@karmic briar are they using ACharacter?

[peak sentinel]

Hero Engine made for MMOs

[twin juniper]

I think you can recreate wow more less with ue4.

[peak sentinel]

Some companies edit its source code and use it

[karmic briar]

I believe so...I think the networking part is what they replacing with stormancer

Everything else probably all built in ue4 code

[near bison]

What, so they're ditching the entirety of CharacterMovementComponent?

[karmic briar]

I can't confirm that

[near bison]

I guess the problem is with CMC because of the granularity of the packets it sends

[karmic briar]

I only know they're using stormancer for their networking solution and if you look at the company that using stormancer,the game have a decent large scale player count for pvpve

Well ue4 networking is built for something like fps and moba

[peak sentinel]

but there is something wrong, whole UE4 architecture is about shooter games not only networking

when you dig down to custom functions and components you need bigger support of that plugin...

[bitter oriole]

I guess the problem is with CMC because of the granularity of the packets it sends
@near bison CMC simply is too advanced for MMO stuff

[near bison]

Yup

[hybrid wren]

Squad is using UE4 and have 100 player map too.

[bitter oriole]

100 with CMC is known possible with a lot of careful work. See PUBG Fortnite and others. More than that stretches CPU power, bandwidth and even gameplay

There is a reason BR games stretch out the players until half of them are dead

[karmic briar]

hi anyone here have CodeSpartan character customization system fromthe marketplace?im researching methids i can use for multiplayer character customization using FSkeletalMeshMerge

how's his method of character customization system?anyone tried it and what could be improve

if i read the code of FSkeletalMeshMerge,it doesnt support merging the material like the meshes

in CS CC,he manually set the materials based on the chosen meshes

i wanna know,how does fortnite use the fskeletalmeshmerge?

[chrome bay]

Are they not using the master pose component system?

We're using that, works pretty well. You don't get collision on the slave components but the master should cover that with it's own physics asset anyway

Also, it's fast

I actually thought the SkeletalMeshMerge thing was for editor-time, could be very wrong though.

[tidal venture]

What would be the best way to use "Convert Screen Location To World Space" on a server?

[gleaming niche]

by doing it on the client, and telling the server.

[tidal venture]

And I guess my best way to prevent cheating is to look the different direction of both at a given time?

[gleaming niche]

server doesn't have a screen.

[tidal venture]

Of course

I'm using this node to fire a linetrace

it's a bit shameful, but I don't know if I have a better way than this 🙂

[kindred widget]

Preventing cheating really depends on what you're doing? What are you trying to let the user click on, or select the world vector from the line trace for?

[tidal venture]

It's for a bullet from a third person and the mesh doesn't exactly line up. So my best guess right now is to verify the direction of the player shooting (client value) with the server character control rotation

Let me know if you have any better idea 🙂

[chrome bay]

There's a lot more you can do than that, but it gets complicated quickly

[tidal venture]

No reason to be afraid of something complicated

[chrome bay]

You should at the very least run the same line-trace server side to prevent players shooting through walls

[tidal venture]

The line trace is only happening on the server at the moment

[chrome bay]

And then if you want to get really advanced, start looking at lag compensation to rewind the players to their respective positions

Maybe avoid all this for now

Screen-To-World positions won't really work that well on the Server anyway

[tidal venture]

Didn't told, but my player is stationary and can only rotate

I figured, can you tell me what is your reasoning why I should "avoid all this for now"?

Cause I see no reason to not be exploring some solution

[chrome bay]

Anti-cheat stuff is difficult at the best of times, and believe me no matter what you do some players will still find a way around it.

[tidal venture]

Of course they will

[chrome bay]

So my advice would be don't worry about it too much until you need to

[tidal venture]

the goal is to put the basic

[chrome bay]

The general gist is to make sure you run any traces on the server too, to prevent shooting through walls, then also make sure that players are where they say the shooter thinks they are

How you go about that really depends on the game

[tidal venture]

I usually never rely on the screen, that why I'm curious now, don't be afraid to share some concept

So like I said, I can pretty much just look at the direction for the given time (again, my pawn is stationary)

To even put more spice right here, I don't even have to care about wall 😄

[chrome bay]

In which case I wouldn't even worry about it

Generally the gist is you say to the Server "I fired a shot from position X, in direction Y, and it hit Z"

[tidal venture]

Following your logic, someone could straight up kill everyone in the level, but hey, not complaining if you don't have any other idea. I really think I can only look the direction in my case

[chrome bay]

And the server finds a way to verify all three things

Position is easy, since it's stationary - so so long as the position matches you can trust it

Direction, server also knows roughly what direction your in

[tidal venture]

very roughly by experience

[chrome bay]

The hard part is when it comes to verifying where the victim is at the time the shooter thinks they shot it

But by the sounds of it, all your tracing is server-side anyway, so it doesn't really matter

[bitter oriole]

There is a decision to make between "complete safety" and "good user experience"

[tidal venture]

Had my answer, thank you 🙂

[chrome bay]

Yeah that too, server-side hit reg doesn't usually feel good

[bitter oriole]

"complete safety" is 100% auth server that ignores the client state

"good user experience" leaves some trust to the shooting client, to a (hopefully) small extent

You can't simulate precisely on the server the state of the scene the shooter client had on their screen when shooting

[tidal venture]

Thank you, I know where I'm going with this now 😉

[vale ermine]

need some hand holding please 🙂

why would the syntax on the Epic Online System tutorials be incorrect?

I have had this issue with game spark and now that I am testing the Epic Online System I am running into the same issue were tutorials have code that does not work or api that has been reworked or changed.

I loaded my project into android studio. I then added the EOS SDK module to the project. When following the tutorial, I hit errors in my syntax for declaring dependencies.

implementation android.appcompat.appcompat:1.1.0
implementation androidx.constraintlayout:constraintlayout:1.1.3
implementation 'androidx.security:security-crypto.."
implementation project(":EOSSDK")

implementation seems to be the function that is missing from the ndk version i am using.

there does however appear to be a function with a capital I instead. The point here is that I am new to this just as any other person using EOS for the first time. I just can not get around why we would have to follow something so outdated but a necessity for game developers. EOS talks a good one on their website about bringing all this together to help the community but right now they are wasting peoples time.

at this point I am going back to gamespark. it atleast works.

[kindred widget]

You're one channel too high for questions or concerns involving EOS

[jagged flax]

can't we use floating movement component for multiplayer games?

[vale ermine]

yea if its replicated

[jagged flax]

is it replicated?

[vale ermine]

depends on if the actor you have it attached to is set to replicate

[jagged flax]

but I tried, server side it works, but clients movement does not replicate to others

[bitter oriole]

Floating movement does not have built-in replication

Like, well, any movement except character movement

[jagged flax]

is there any way to make replicated vehicle, unreal default vehicle physics replication is not work smoothly?

[bitter oriole]

Not easily in current engine versions, no

As I said - any movement except character movement, does not replicate

Replicating movement is about a few weeks of work, so it's not like it's a checkbox

Replicating physics vehicles in particular is particularly difficult

[jagged flax]

using smooth sync plugin of marketplace can do that perfectly but not worked when possession changed. have any clue about it?

[bitter oriole]

You probably didn't set ownership correctly when possessing

[jagged flax]

how to do that?

[bitter oriole]

Basically check that you called Possess on the server

Not the client

[vale ermine]

looks like this would be your best option or you can look at the vehicle movement code and write your physics from that

https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/BlueprintAPI/Game/Components/ProjectileMovement/index.html

[hybrid wren]

Hi again guys, I asked questions earlier about level streaming for my needs. Long story short, I want my multiplayer game to have a gamemode where 2 team are against each others and are playing in team specific levels. There is a possibility to travel to the enemy level. Currently I'm stuck, I want to spawn enemies on each levels, but to do this I have to set the Owner of the spawned actor as let's say a playerstart from a specific level. Problem is, the server can't do that because it doesn't have the level loaded. If I do load the level on the server, then every player will see each other levels. Am I missing something ? I can't find a working solution.

[jagged flax]

thank you for help

[vale ermine]

lol thank you. I learned something new. I am working on a multi player game for the first time and I was having problems with my floating pawn movement. plugged in projectile movement and now everything replicating perfectly 🙂

[clear sand]

hey folks, is there any limitations on how many players can join single dedicated server?

[meager spade]

nope, but good luck getting more than 20-30 without optimizing 🙂

[peak sentinel]

same for AIs?

[vale ermine]

one thing I found today was the multi thread plugin. @clear sand @peak sentinel

https://marketplace-website-node-launcher-prod.ol.epicgames.com/ue/marketplace/en-US/product/multitask-pro/reviews

[peak sentinel]

looks very helpful, but can we do this in cpp without plugin?

[strong vapor]

[Help] Im using the network profile and im not sure exactly what the stat "game socket size send bytes" is... is that like.. all the data for all the sockets on all the meshes? or is this some kind of under the hood socket sorta thing that i shouldnt worry about

[vale ermine]

the nodes are writen in cpp

[strong vapor]

there's tutorials on youtube on how to set up a multithreaded task in C++

its not somethign that's already in blueprints .. so the plugin is nice for us scrubs

[vale ermine]

yea wish i knew about it for my first game

we were able to have 60 ai and decent frame rate. anything above that would bottle neck the main thread.

[peak sentinel]

Thanks a lot mattxor

[boreal merlin]

Having a hard time understanding this "not directly replicated" concept for the player array. #1 On the local client the APlayerState:PostInitalizeComponents should get null when it tries to add the PlayerState to the Player array on the gamestate since the gamestate it not created yet on the client. But when the server runs this function it should add it to the player array. Then when the gamestate is created on the local client Inside AGameState::PostInitalizeComponents it will add itself to the PlayerArray which it didnt do before. Then when the server runs the same function it won't add again since the call is AddUnique. Does that flow seem right?

Most of my confusion comes from if the GameState is created so early on the server. At what point is it replicating to clients, and when do they not get null when trying to get it.

[strong vapor]

@boreal merlin if you wanna find out when it first replicates.. maybe make a variable bool thats replicated.. and use a repnotify.. fire your logic off that on the client?

[peak sentinel]

any ideas to optimize this for networking? when client has higher ping sometimes gun not firing projectiles

[prisma crescent]

Is the server function set to reliable?

[peak sentinel]

yes

I set PktLag to 500 maybe its too much? 😅

[timber harbor]

Hey everyone I'm trying to attach a client pawn to a PhysicsConstraintActor but I'm having issues. The client's pawn isn't able to move once I attach the physics constraint to it. It doesn't have the authority to move the constraint, even if I detach the other actor.

Should I be using "Add Force" to move the constraint? Or is there some simpler and more comprehensive way to allow my client's pawn to move the physics constraint and other attached object?

Also Im using C++

[carmine citrus]

I am trying to manually spawn the characters at player starts place in the level. But the client's camera is inside the character. ```void AWhyMeGameMode::PostLogin(APlayerController* NewPlayer)
{
Super::PostLogin(NewPlayer);

if (_currentPlayerStart < _playerStarts.Num()) {
    APlayerStart* playerStart = Cast<APlayerStart>(_playerStarts[_currentPlayerStart]);
    AWhyMePlayerController* player = Cast<AWhyMePlayerController>(NewPlayer);

    check(playerStart);
    check(player);

    APawn* pawn = player->GetPawn();
    check(pawn);

    FVector location = playerStart->GetActorLocation();
    pawn->SetActorLocation(location);

    player->Init();

    _currentPlayerStart++;
}

}```

[fossil spoke]

@carmine citrus Your better off overriding one of the PlayerStart methods.

    // Spawning the player's pawn

    /**
     * Return the 'best' player start for this player to spawn from
     * Default implementation looks for a random unoccupied spot
     * 
     * @param Player is the controller for whom we are choosing a playerstart
     * @returns AActor chosen as player start (usually a PlayerStart)
     */
    UFUNCTION(BlueprintNativeEvent, Category=Game)
    AActor* ChoosePlayerStart(AController* Player);

    /**
     * Return the specific player start actor that should be used for the next spawn
     * This will either use a previously saved startactor, or calls ChoosePlayerStart
     * 
     * @param Player The AController for whom we are choosing a Player Start
     * @param IncomingName Specifies the tag of a Player Start to use
     * @returns Actor chosen as player start (usually a PlayerStart)
     */
    UFUNCTION(BlueprintNativeEvent, Category=Game)
    AActor* FindPlayerStart(AController* Player, const FString& IncomingName = TEXT(""));```

Override their Implementation

[carmine citrus]

Ah, I didn't know that was possible, thanks!

[timber harbor]

In case anyone is curious I was able to solve my problem (for now) by turning my movement commands in my playerController into server RPCs. That way my character is basically always being moved by the server.

Still kind of feeling my way through all this lol

[carmine citrus]

@fossil spoke Thanks, that worked. But my character's camera is still 'stuck' inside the pawn

[fossil spoke]

Is it on a SpringArm?

[carmine citrus]

yea, the default setup

[fossil spoke]

Check that its not colliding with something it shouldnt be.

[carmine citrus]

both clients are in the middle of the map

well above the world, I did check that

[fossil spoke]

Are they being blocked by eachother?

If they are spawned at the same location

[carmine citrus]

no

[carmine citrus]

Yea, IDK. I just reverted everything and reimplemented ChoosePlayerStart_Implementation and everything is fine. Gotta love source control

[slim matrix]

I've enable multiplayer world origin rebasing but it seems that if the server players origin is to far away the client origin rebasing docent work is there a way to fix this

[strong vapor]

[Help] I've been working with the Network Profiler a bit lately.. and i'm tryin to figure what "game socket send bytes/s" represents.. my first intuition is that its all the sockets on all the meshes? am i wrong? is it something else?

[soft girder]

Its referring to networking sockets @strong vapor

I am about to bring our homing projectile into multiplayer testing. Is there anything I should watch out for? So far we have client side bullets which dont do anything. Hits are 100 percent server but the projectiles on the client are moving so fast it looks close enough to pass off

[brazen ember]

Hey! I'm after a bit of advice please 🙂 I'd like to learn about how an MMO is created (mainly the backend part like how's the data stored, what data is stored where and things like that) Before you say anything this isn't another "I'M GOING TO MAKE AN MMO!!!!" I want to gain and understanding so I can create my own personal project and gain more knowledge in that area.

[twin juniper]

Use the search function and type mmo im pretty sure people talked about this a few days ago.

[brazen ember]

ok thanks do you know of an documentation on it at all please? I have googled obviously but theres no clear answers its generally pieces

[bitter oriole]

There is no documentation on MMOs because the backend of a MMO is like, dozens of engineer working on it for a decade

There isn't one way to do it, there isn't one particular trick, it's just a huge pile of work

[brazen ember]

yeh i understand that. I have worked in Databases in the past and can imagine the sheer amount of work for something like WOW etc

[bitter oriole]

The reason the answers are "pieces" is because, well, no one knows how to create an entire MMO server. People know the one piece they worked on.

[brazen ember]

i'm not after a hand held "put this code here and that there" more an understanding of it if that makes sense

[torn yacht]

I think you can only find separated websites of info for this... just search understanding mmo games or mmo games back-end etc...

Other forms of understanding is to go find open source mmo games

[bitter oriole]

Open source MMOs that actually have players are probably not easy to find

What you're looking for in that scenario is more like unofficial community servers for commercial MMOs

Those actually have people playing

[torn yacht]

It does not matter about players... he just wants to get an understanding

[brazen ember]

Yeh im'm happy to also pull a project apart aswell to see whats what 🙂

I'll see what i can find thought i would ask here first to see what everyone thought 🙂

[bitter oriole]

Players are the only reason a MMO is called a MMO

Anyone can make a multiplayer game

We're talking about MMOs - games with thousands online at a time

If we're talking about regular multiplayer games, just look at Shootergame in UE4

[brazen ember]

i think TheKiwi meant that it doesn't matter if the Opensource MMO has 10 players of a million its just for me to learn about it 🙂

or a*

[bitter oriole]

But it does matter

If your game never has more than 10 players, you don't need MMO tech

And you probably don't have MMO tech

You don't decide you're an MMO because you feel like being one, you earn it by actually sustaining a massive amount of players

[torn yacht]

I meant that it does not need active players currently.... it can have some history that would be nice so you know you can trust it but it is also good to learn from various mmo projects... weather it failed or if it succeeded

[bitter oriole]

The current player count doesn't matter, but if your open-source MMO peaked at 1000 online players, there is nothing MMO-related to learn about it

Though 1000 is probably harsh, at least 1000 is beyond what UE4 can do

But I doubt most open-source games ever peaked at 100

And this is why people tell you not to do an MMO - you're not getting 100 online players for your indie game, so you don't have MMO scale, and you don't need MMO tech, you can emulate the feel of an MMO but keep everything instanced, and you'll be fine

[brazen ember]

yeh like i said above i'm after an understanding of it, Its easy for people to say don't do it but everythings' possible to learn 🙂 I would understand if i came in saying "I'm going to make a huge MMO" i know the reality of saying something like that...It will most likely never happen without huge funding an experienced team

[bitter oriole]

But how do you plan on getting an understanding of 50 people's work over a decade ?

It's like saying you want to know how to build the Space Shuttle

[brazen ember]

i mean this in the nicest possible way I'm here to do and learn not to be told I can't do it

[bitter oriole]

No one is telling you that you can't do it, just that you need to pick a topic

You can't learn how to build a Space Shuttle

You can learn how to build a model plane, or a model rocket, etc

My suggestion would be to pick a game engine and start building stuff

Some things just can't be explained, unless you have a lifetime before you

[torn yacht]

Erm...what are you talking about???

An advice i can give is I suggest learning about mmo... but it will be nice if you have experience in programming and game development and server architecture

[bitter oriole]

Basically a MMO is the sum of single player game development + multiplayer game development + shared servers + massive scale

I'm just suggesting starting at game development

[twin juniper]

start building your game, when you get more than 1 player start thinking about networking. when you get more than 100 concurrent start thinking about scaling

[river estuary]

@bitter oriole No offense, but I remember getting that attitude from you as well. That is, trying to learn something and you just telling me "don't do it. you can't do it. you're not big/rich/etc enough".

[torn yacht]

From what I get his goal of this is to understand an mmo... not to make one yet

If you are building one..then start small and just build up experience to make one...

idk @brazen ember history or experiences

[bitter oriole]

The point there is no way to explain how to scale your game server from 100 to 10,000, when you don't have a game server.

And that there is multiple lives worth of experience needed

So you can't teach that stuff

[river estuary]

first of all, that sentence is a lot better than saying "you can't do it".

[brazen ember]

i have experience in game development, server coding and architecture so I'm not asking to be taught from knowing nothing 🙂

[bitter oriole]

Alright, so what are your actual technical questions ?

What's your current problem ?

This is how you can learn

You have something, you want more, you don't know how

[river estuary]

although personally I disagree. When I say learn something, I don't mean "learn to completion" / "learn until I can do it". It means understand some parts of it, hopefully most of it. And that can be done for big projects as well

[brazen ember]

Hey! I'm after a bit of advice please 🙂 I'd like to learn about how an MMO is created (mainly the backend part like how's the data stored, what data is stored where and things like that) Before you say anything this isn't another "I'M GOING TO MAKE AN MMO!!!!" I want to gain and understanding so I can create my own personal project and gain more knowledge in that area.
@brazen ember

[bitter oriole]

This is way too vague to answer

Other than "a database", and "player data"

[torn yacht]

It's not that vague.. those are keywords including back end

[bitter oriole]

So answer the question if you think you know how

[river estuary]

@brazen ember I'd say it game dependent. But like Stranger said it's mostly with a database (it's a huge subject, so read about it if you're unfamiliar with it).

[brazen ember]

@river estuary I'd agree with you, no matter what you will always learn something new ever if you think you've learnt everything there is to know

[river estuary]

@brazen ember I'd say start designing one. That is, imagine you are making an MMO and write in a document what you think you'll need (just for the backend for now, to focus). You can include rough structures of it's built. And even if you're not sure or you're wrong - write it anyway.
Then link it here. People can take a look and recommend different approaches/fixes about it.

[torn yacht]

I agree with what msh says... experience is another way of learning it... just choose whatever methods we have said so far helps you

[bitter oriole]

Experience is the only way you will learn about it

"How do you scale this very particular game to a million players ?"

[river estuary]

@brazen ember btw, my first introduction with MMO code was wow: https://github.com/mangoszero/server
It's used by private servers (actual MMO), and it's AMAZING.

Experience is the only way you will learn about it
@bitter oriole I disagree. Experience is the best way to learn about it. the fastest and most accurate.

[bitter oriole]

Alright, how do you learn how to make an MMO without working on one ?

Ask the Blizzard team for a 10-years course ?

[river estuary]

by reading about it. Again though, remember "learn" doesn't mean you can do it. It just means you know more than you did before.

[bitter oriole]

Reading about it will teach you about 0.0% of the stuff

So yeah, good

[brazen ember]

lmao

[river estuary]

by reading I mean code and not articles. But again, I disagree with you.

[brazen ember]

thanks for the WOW link. Even being able to look at the database structure will help alot

[river estuary]

@brazen ember Keep in mind the game is old. Design choices for old games usually never gets updated since many times it means changing the entire codebase.
So learn from it, but beware there might be better alternatives in some areas.
Overall from what I remember it though it has a great design and still relevant these days.

[brazen ember]

thanks alot!