Seems more fair when everybody is alone.
#game-jam-chat
tepid light
small fern
Lattasoft is still attending twice 😄
heh,, "low expectations (5)" sounds really motivated
rigid fog
Heh, they will probably rekt most of us
I'm worried about that TheVR Studio
saw them poking their heads around here 😉
tepid light
You know what I would like too see?
Some small studio staring in a jam, not as a competition, but as an example.
I mean, experienced devs that worked together before.
or maybe some people from epic 😃
small fern
heh, I'd love to see community manager team on game jam 😄
tepid light
yea. Thats what I meant by "people from Epic". Team Community
I don't think that possible however
somber hazel
ouch, more solos than I've expected, going for a team looks tempting
small fern
hmmm
maybe people think that they have better odds at winning the main prize on solo or something
like, less people to raffle it with
tepid light
Most people go solo and most game could probably fit under 100 MB, if everyone tries
somber hazel
where is the guide to get under 100mb though
somber hazel
is that all?`
small fern
yeah, but under 100mb catergory is only for epics t-shirt, fortnight alpha + shadow complex key
small fern
@somber hazel it's not all but it's all you need to know to get well below 100
somber hazel
what is "well below" ^^
small fern
just by following that guide and use common sense on packaging setup, you can get blank project to package around 55-65 MB depending on engine version and build type
somber hazel
kay kay
tepid light
I doesn't have to be "Well Below". 99.9MB is low enough
small fern
heh
small fern
@tepid light obviously winning on solo is really hard, just thinking about the reasoning why so many does solo this time around
tepid light
yea. assets are tiny compared to the engine itself in those small gamejam game
games.
small fern
yeah
tepid light
I'm pretty sure in my last game 9 min of music took more space then the rest of my assets
small fern
I got my previous jam entry, which was 353 MB btw unzipped into around 70 MB just by tweaking few things
it had 5 minutes long audio track too
somber hazel
I want a category, 3D 120 fps on laptop
small fern
I want category for under 50MB games 😄
small fern
ai challenge would be neat still
tepid light
a game that you can controll with only 2 buttons.
yea, AI challange would be nice
but AI is a hard thing to do in a normal jam
it takes a lot of time
rigid fog
A solo dev competing in the under 100mb category has a better chance of winning than someone on a team though
pale eagle
Depends on how good the dev is 😃
somber hazel
not sure if I wanna win a pc that doubles my energy bill :3
oh wait, I could sell it $$
💸 💸
rigid fog
@pale eagle Eh, yes and no. Just statistics alone, a solo dev has a better chance at winning. Even with the number of solo devs increasing as there are more categories that they are able to win in. (Good thing I suck at statistics, because you know, odds lessen as more compete 😉 ) More solo devs please.
@small fern Make the smallest game you can do, you will wow them with your skills
I have this feeling that a lot of the group teams are not registering until the last minute or might not register until submission
ashen meadow
should make a preregister category winner
i dont think ive ever preregistered for any of them
grizzled zenith
If the theme will be good and I can figure out an idea, I'll participate
First 4 days I'll have to use just macbook, but I can model with that
Then I have 3 days time to make the game itself
So it'll be very art heavy if I decide to join
lapis lichen
@small fern Myself, @ruby cradle and Chance always talk about taking part one month - between us we are a Programmer, Artist&Animator and Tech Artist so a pretty good split - but whenever it comes around there's always hundreds of other things we need to do 😛
small fern
would be cool though 😃
especially since there wouldn't be any audio guy in team, I could already imagine mouth sounds 😄
maiden loom
@lapis lichen - C'est la vie. Gotta dump your plans if you wanna jam :p
lapis lichen
That is true! Maybe one day 😄
stable kiln
well i can now kinda improve generated characters instead of completely breaking em 😛
ruby cradle
I'd just come up with the ideas
my ideas are the best and those are all that are important /s
civic dock
So I've been wondering... how the heck are people going to make games that are under 100mb for the Epic MegaJam?
maiden loom
L33T SKILL5
civic dock
Been playing with a test project and so far, the smallest I've gotten a packaged project is 143mb.
That's a project with only a very simple map, a game mode bp, a player bp and a flat material.
maiden loom
I reckon I can do it, but it'll be damned close to the mark
civic dock
Also excluded redist.
I guess it all comes down to knowing exactly where you can flip switches to reduce the package size.
There's probably several I don't know about.
For example, I don't know how much rendering settings affects the size of the packaged game, e.g. if I turn off a bunch of settings I don't need.
I'm going to keep looking into it, though. The 100mb challenge is difficult enough on its own, let alone making an entire game that fits in a package that size.
Oh shit. There's a pretty extensive doc for this! https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/Performance/ReducingPackageSize/index.html
glass fossil
@civic dock pretty sure 0lento can give some tips, he got his down below the threshold through some hackery.
civic dock
Even after following all of the tips in the docs, I can't get below 105mb.
And that's with little-to-no actual game included.
@glass fossil Thanks. I'll ask them about it at some point.
Somehow less than 1mb of content turns into a 23mb .pak file when packaging. 😕
I'm learning a bunch about packaging in the process, though, so yay.
tepid light
I think that pak includes engine content anyway.
grizzled zenith
Also one sad thing is that ue4 doesn't support mp3, 5mb .mp3 converted to .wav goes over 20mb
I've noticed
at least if you convert on audacity
lament oar
Not sure why anyone would use wav unless you were editing sounds.
civic dock
Well you want .wav in the editor because it's lossless. You can set up compression ratio/quality in sound cues assets.
Pretty sure .wav gets compressed into .ogg on packaging, anyways.
lament oar
yeah sure in the editor I can see that. Not sure what it gets compressed too but if it's ogg im fine with that 😃
civic dock
OK, there must be something wrong. My packaged game is now increasing in size.
lol
Fiddled with settings I thought would reduce file size and ended up doubling it. 😲
tepid light
I think you can/need to remove some files from folder after building.
I need to try all that
under 100 MB is not my priority, but I will probably hit it anyway
stable kiln
pff, still talkin about that 100 mb, that character and one man army award is much better 😛
tepid light
I thought about it, but the character one very heavily depend on the theme.
I can't model characters
so I would have to have a non character -character.
I don't know if that counts.
as in, Glados for example.
99% voice, 1% robot body that really doesn't matter.
small fern
@civic dock enable compression for pak
And blacklist all engine content you dont use
Put everything to shipping
I got almost blank 4.13 into 54mb just by tweaking packaging
civic dock
I did compression and set the project to shipping. Haven't gotten into blacklisting yet.
small fern
And not telling my final figures where I ended up :D
civic dock
With compression, shipping, no redist and no crash reporter, I got down to 67MB on a nearly-blank 4.12 project.
civic dock
I had worse luck with 4.13. Package kept increasing in size mysteriously. Still not sure why.
small fern
Well I suppose I can tell one undocumented trick
Even it's still a competition and all
There is a huge diff between 32 bit and 64 bit builds
small fern
I pretty much tested everything
civic dock
Do you think it's possible to get under 100MB and still have room for an actual game without removing redist and crash reporter?
small fern
I got my 353mb last month entry into 70mb zone just by tweaking few settings
Sure, just be smart with content
civic dock
Those seemed to be the two biggest wins for me.
small fern
Dont put huge textures in
civic dock
I can't get a nearly-blank project below 100MB without removing both of those.
civic dock
Same here. I got down to 105 without removing the crash reporter, for example.
Crash reporter made a huge difference for some reason. That alone dropped me from 105 to 67.
It also strangely seemed to remove Programs and Shaders folders from /Engine/, which I don't understand yet.
Will need to do more research.
small fern
Additional hint, check you saved folders cooked folder for blacklistable items
There is some crazy items included
Like, tutorials
civic dock
Oh wow hahah.
small fern
Or mobile stuff on desktop builds
civic dock
My project keeps including OpenVR and OpenSSL, even after disabling their respective plugins. Definitely blacklist candidates.
civic dock
Yeah. Gotta make sure it still runs as intended after blacklisting stuff.
small fern
I'd go as far as saying that most past jam winners could have fit under 100mb just with packaging tweaks
There hasnt been many texture heavy/ highpoly entries on those
Only huge downside on 32bit packaging is that seems to fail on me 50% of the time
If I repackage, it works
There are ton of answerhub people who had same issues with 32bit packaging even on 4.8
lament oar
do people still game on 32bit?
small fern
Its some virtual memory issue
Error tells to up the amount to 420 on me
But even default is 1000 I think
Probably not
Doesnt matter though
@civic dock make sure you set shipping on packaging settings too, not just for build conf on file menu
Oh right I missread
Without removing redist and crash reporter, it will be close
@civic dock oh right, do note that everything you manually blacklist still gets cooked
so if you want to make sure they don't get into final package, you can either opt to not put things into pak file or just monitor the pak file size between packaging changes
my biggest hurdle with blacklisting was that I had the blacklist txt on wrong folder
it needs to be in Build/Win64 or Win32 depending on what you are targeting at
rigid fog
@small fern helping out the enemy, nice guy 😉
small fern
I kinda regret telling the 32bit thing already 😄
should have kept that to myself
that's still like 12 MB advantage
tepid light
I think the more important question is, how big are the game assets. No point doing a 32 bit build to endup with 80 MB instead of 92. Below 100 is below 100.
and it's better to remove as little as you can.
small fern
I'll probably end up putting few different packages in final post, just for the sake of being able to do it (if I even finish the jam that is)
like under 100mb as my official entry, then "as low as you can go" version and then something that's not compromised at all
rigid fog
@ruby cradle Any chance of having some of the rules laid out in tomorrow's stream for the MegaJam, I am sure a lot of people are going to have questions and would like to double/triple make sure what's allowed, what's not, and other rules, like tool usage/listing. While I agree there are some gray areas, there really shouldn't be when it comes to a Game Jams that have prizes involved. Things like Substance/Quixel are pretty much industry standard, obviously Photoshop is also, Are we listing each of those? I suppose everyone on Windows gets Paint, so that shouldn't get listed. But yeah...anyway
Just my thoughts
tepid light
also.. Using content that someone else made is not ok.. but what about following a tutorial and doing the exact same content 😛
there are a lot of gray areas 😃
rigid fog
It's not really rocket science though
There can be a list of What is acceptable, what is not. What needs to be listed. What doesn't need to be listed. And anything NOT listed, needs to be listed.
Problem solved.
tepid light
and people who want to cheat will cheat anyway 😦
small fern
I personally find the toolset thing bit troubling, as all pro tools, be it Maya, Modo, some texturing app etc have ton of feats that help you get quick results, all pros use that because it would be silly not to
it shouldn't be cheating if you use tools properly
there was talk about listing things that save you large amounts of time
but where you'd even draw a line on that?
like there are some crazy efficient uv unwrappers around, you can use already preUV'd primitives on all DCC apps to save time on low poly
list would be endless if you listed every single thing that saved you from doing it fully manually
in my opinion, only thing that should matter if you actually modeled/sculpted and textured the assets yourself, regardless of what tools were used in the process
also, if we go into audio department, say, if you don't source existing music but do something yourself, would you need to disclose used instrument libraries? this list would go on forever too 😄
and look way worse than on person who just sourced "this music track here"
tepid light
Rule number 1 is "use common sense":P
rigid fog
Well, as you probably are more than aware of, common sense is not a common virtue.
tepid light
hehe. yeah.
but having strict rules for that sort of thing is kind of hard.
also.. tools that automate things are not assets in terms of games.
So I wouldn't require anyone to disclose that.
On the other hand listing tools used would be a good thing. Not from a competition standpoint, but from learning standpoint.
Writing about the whole process in general too.
small fern
agree on that
tepid light
Whats why I asked about making a video earlier, and I plan on writing a blog post about my progress.
With 2-3 days delay 😛
small fern
heh
that's one thing about disclosing too much
because if you submit the jam entry early
and you need to disclose how you got so well under 100mb
people submitting day later could use that
tepid light
you don't need to do that. Thats not a tool or asset, or anything
thats lack of those if anything 😃
what is the size of an empty game after following the tutorial on wiki anyway?
small fern
67 megs I think
tepid light
if its under 80 MB than it doesn't matter...
wow.
so it doesn't
33 is a lot of space for assets
tepid light
saving space on audio: "this game has no audio, but I suggest playing this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?......."
small fern
heh
tepid light
as a widget. with a clickable link 😃
small fern
"put nickelback on"
heh
or just make the game popup webbrowser page when you launch it
with hamster dance on it
man, that would have been clever, shouldn't have said that either 😄
tepid light
also, I think you could easily make a plugin that would automaticly download and play audi..
small fern
yeah, like I said on the first day
people could stream everything in
but it kinda ruins the whole idea
also I find streaming to be cheating, even the rules wouldn't forbid it
tepid light
I would say this: if you have to wait for the content to download than it's a problem. If you can download it on the run (like you could a soundtrack) than its ok
"no loading screens"
that would be nice additional challange.
small fern
I dunno how that would work though
people could just load everything on launch
without popping a loading screen
tepid light
also, streaming music from youtube and having a custom server to stream your data specific to your game are two different things.
100MB will have no loading time by itself.
so any loading, any waiting would be cheating.
small fern
if you procedurally create the world, it wouldn't be instant
so that's not as black and white as you suggest
small fern
there are ton of reason for loading screens rather than loading assets from disk
although, it usually is loading from disk 😄
tepid light
DRM, loading files and generating world. what else?
and loading takes 99% if you don't play terraria or minecraft.
rigid fog
Oh snap: https://itch.io/jam/gbjam-5
I doubt I have the time for it
Unless I just spend 24 hours or less on it, but that's cool
small fern
sounds fun though
small fern
is that like gameboy color?
small fern
wasn't the original black and white?
rigid fog
and has to be 160px x 144px
Well
It wasn't b&w
it was like grey
monochrome
whatever
small fern
yeah, but 2 color
small fern
marmoset hexels would be great for that jam
although, with that few pixels, it might not be huge advantage
rigid fog
I haven't played around with hexels yet, do you like it?
small fern
I don't do pixelart / 2D
but it looks really slick for that kinda use
almost bought it from last steam sale but couldn't justify buying something I'd probably never use 😄
rigid fog
I have to do pixel art this quarter
I've only done it like twice
It's pretty fun once you get into it
rigid fog
I don't mind either tbh
stable kiln
ahh cool, havent checked those in a while
small fern
going for under 100mb challenge? 😄
basically music is not a huge issue if you don't have over 10 minutes of it as it still compresses fairly well
wind aspen
How much time do you guys spend on coming up with your game idea once the theme is announced?
stable kiln
i usually make some concept art 😛
usually i just set up some basic stuff when i dont know what to make yet
any1 goin for this too ? http://www.reallusion.com/iclone/event/2016-3d-character-design-contest/intro.html
that work in progress thing is pretty cool
wind aspen
I won't be able to start working on the game jam until about day 2 sometime
stable kiln
really detailed posts on how they create their character cuz its rated for the score
wind aspen
Wow. There are 45 one-man teams that have preregistered.
small fern
poor Allar
small fern
better make them move
also have to join his stream late to request the playthrough so he gets to play them only when he's already dead tired
sharp berry
I think im going to participate in the October MegaJam, but if I see how many people already signed up, better make something spectacular
grizzled zenith
Also don't forget to forget to add checkpoints! 😛
small fern
hey, my last gamejam entry playtrough lasted one minute
and I had 3 checkpoints 😄
now afterwards, we could debate if I should have made more content instead
especially since I had issues with rootmotion driven chars respawning
austere glade
Allar spent a long time on some games
so you could argue its worth building a lot of content
small fern
well, we are not really building games for Allar here ;D
and he doesn't have to playthrough them if he feels it lasts too long (but he usually does finish them)
usually the scope is more limited due to having to actually put in all the content
there's been few games where you could do like really huge amount of levels with minimal content amount but that more rare
pine fulcrum
If you make a game that takes 30 minutes to beat
but has 1 minute of content and progression
I hate you
COLLECT 200 ITEMS IN 15 MINUTES
yawn
small fern
I'll make point and click adventure
where you only have fetch quests
but yeah, I wouldn't think the scope to be an issue if the game is otherwise done properly
and not just some repetitive levels
pine fulcrum
Your game should be playable start to finish within 5 minutes
Especially if you want a good playthough by the judges
:p
small fern
my last jam entry lasted 1 minute 😄
pine fulcrum
Especially espcially for the mega jam
pine fulcrum
If it takes 20 minutes for your game to be cool, then judges won't see it
No, there were just better games :p
small fern
I know ;D
small fern
yeah, I got stuck at other things, I barely got my intro stuff in
I just wanted to submit as I usually don't finish these
pine fulcrum
Anything with a round timer longer than 1:30 is most likely going to be shit
If you use round timers
Multiplayer is an exception
small fern
1:30 wouldn't be enough for racing games usually, unless you are supposed to drive around the track only for one lap etc
pine fulcrum
95% of game jam racing games so far have been boring as shit
small fern
I was going to point out that too ;p
pine fulcrum
the ones that aren't boring actually win though
the racing games that won are a) multiplayer b) polished c) don't drag on
IIRC only 2 racing games one, one was race to the top with grapling hooks, the other was the mall runner
Both those are clearly better crafted than the average entry
small fern
sure
I mean, if you just slap ue4 vehicles in level and put a splinetrack for it and say race, it'll not be very exicing on itself
small fern
nah, Im good
pine fulcrum
Unless you really, really nail it
small fern
I just want excuses to make something else every once and a while to get break from my real project
I don't even take game jams seriously usually
hence not caring much if I finish them even :p I usually just play around with new engine feats
but I'd really want to do at least one jam properly
so hoping the megajam theme will be nice for me
austere glade
good tips thank you
small fern
and lets be honest, under 100mb category pretty much yells at me to pack ton of content in there, just because I could
austere glade
that mall runner game was hilarious
where yo had the babies on your shoulders? was that how it went?
austere glade
i wonder what the dev-up people will do this year, that game was beautiful
proven badge
well that was our second game jam right after graduation
can expect higher quality visuals this time for sure
small fern
I was actually bit worried about the dev up thing
I dunno how things go in games like these
as they referred to real peple
you surely couldn't do that in commercial game
small fern
if I make a game where you play as Arnold Schwarzenegger, I'm pretty sure I'd be in trouble
even he's public figure
austere glade
yea, bro force had to tweak it a bit 😄
small fern
lol
austere glade
BRO-NAN, YEAARRRRGGH!
proven badge
in regular jams I would recommend to abstain from multiplayer games in general
we concluded that Judges rarely test those
Megajam is exception because of Allar
MP all the way!
pine fulcrum
Aye
Pretend your games are being judged by someone who opens them, looks at it and goes 'hmmm', then closes it
:p
small fern
@pine fulcrum you planning to stream these still?
proven badge
sweet
small fern
yeh, I read that, just checking
austere glade
does it look to be a bigger turn out than last year? it took you what, 3 sessions to get thru them all last year?
austere glade
it probably wont fit the theme, but im gonna make a business game - because ive always wanted to make a business game
small fern
I'm just sad I don't have urge to make a moving platform game
with random glitches on jumps
austere glade
lol
i guess my best advice would be - get a build machine, because if your machine is pinned while you are getting builds out, thats gonna waste your time
small fern
it doesn't take that long to package
and you can use a break, do other stuff while waiting
oh right, if you need to rebuild lighting it could 😄
austere glade
take breaks during a game jam?
austere glade
true, i actually got pretty fatigued out last time
small fern
I pretty much need to do that anyway because dog is not going to accept it otherwise
also
your packaging is not going to break on game jams just by adding same kind of content, if there will be issues it's more from doing something that you don't normally do / use new experimental features
I usually test initially packaging when taking new feats into use, regardless if it's a jam or not
austere glade
because my games were mp i always had to cook dedicated servers
small fern
oh right, mp 😄
austere glade
so i guess your right if it wasnt it probably wouldnt be that bad
small fern
I have another computer here though
but have planned on getting a dedicated CI server at some point
austere glade
i'd love full blown ci, pushing nightlys to google play
pine fulcrum
I got decent at setting up CIs for Unreal
And even built my own auto deployer
Now I get paid for it
#TurnTheThingsYouNeedForGameJamsIntoProfit
If it helps in production for a game jam, most likely it'll help everyone
proven badge
yeah I'm confused too
austere glade
@pine fulcrum auto deploy to steam? do you use jenkins?
pine fulcrum
If someone is paying for it, I usually use Jenkins as thats what they want
I use a combination of Jenkins and my own tools I wrote for my own stuff
rigid fog
What'
small fern
yeah, I basically need the CI thing for my real project
but could be handy on jams too
rigid fog
is a nanobags?
austere glade
im reading your blog now, your vids you did a while ago helped me get my build scripts together
dull basin
it's voxelbags !
rigid fog
what
austere glade
mmmm one day, one day jenkins
rigid fog
Wait, did I miss part of this convo
Anyway, @proven badge and @dull basin we all expect greatness out of you
small fern
@rigid fog jenkins = continuous integration server app
it's relatively simple to setup too
rigid fog
Wtf does that have to do with nanobags and voxelbags
pine fulcrum
CI automates game jam rule of 'build often'
keen plinth
@rigid fog VoxelBags is our team name 😃
pine fulcrum
If set up right, all your emails, phones, and pagers will alert when you fucked up
austere glade
hahah
great:D
google notified me today that my build got rejected while i was in lne at the grocery store - i just said AH FUCK and everyone looked at me
i need more of that in my life
rigid fog
@keen plinth ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
I was like wtf
I am hating, because I consider you my rivals for this MegaJam
"hating"
Yours words, not mine.
keen plinth
❤
austere glade
we all win, its so inspiring to see what everyone can do
keen plinth
JR
rigid fog
I might need to get anony to sabotage your pcs
small fern
heh
keen plinth
hes won game jam before
small fern
I read that "we always win, so it's inspiring what others can do
rigid fog
I don't know him though, full name?
keen plinth
c0rrupted
small fern
JR is my steam alt
rigid fog
@small fern read what?
small fern
not the JR he's talking about though
rigid fog
oh, oneman
small fern
yeah
rigid fog
@keen plinth so only 4 of you this time?
small fern
"only"
keen plinth
yeah should be fun!
keen plinth
we are new team so should be exciting
rigid fog
Yeah Slap and Jaki always be traveling
"traveling" = moving around from team to team
it's good for them though
and others 😉
Anyway, still need a damn team name for mine
keen plinth
JR4815 is JR's forum name
rigid fog
hmm....
rigid fog
is he the one who copied a game awhile back?
small fern
oh, Victor actually knows him
rigid fog
Ah, it was him
keen plinth
lol now i will call him JRAD
rigid fog
GL with that
small fern
what did he copy?
rigid fog
Well, it might not be him
keen plinth
JR made www.epicleaderboard.com
rigid fog
But anyway, someone either a) directly copied a game that was already out on mobile OR and just as likely b) created that mobile game and then turned it in as a gamejam project
small fern
neverheard of that either
rigid fog
Oh, I still haven't used that
I can't remember why
Maybe it was 4.13 ready
wasn't
It is now tho
Nice
keen plinth
I used it in 4.13 game for last jam
rigid fog
Good looking out
I was going to use it on preview for something
And it wasn't ready then
So excited though
Ah damn, I usually have a bad memory, especially other people's name. But yeah, I hit it right on the money.
This is of course due to me doing the stream that month in Allar's place.
frail palm
Was there like free music given for the last Mega Game Jam?
proven badge
yeah I remember something about that
they don't mention if you can use it outside of that Jam entry though
"Additionally, the band Magic Sword has provided awesome music to Epic MegaJam participants! These four songs are available to use on your non-commercial game jam entry"
stable kiln
it was for gamejam only i remember but there was something like contact them if u wunna use it for something ele
tepid light
If you want free music there is a ton of it on youtube. And I mean on attribution licence. not just "free"
small fern
I'd be careful with youtube content
people put all kinds of things there and claim it's free
tepid light
Yea, there are "Free music" videos that are just compilation of movi soundtracks -.-
but you can generally tell if a small artist has a personal youtube account.
stable kiln
a friend of mine asked an artist to send him some stuff he could use in stop motion vids and the guy send him a box of cassette tapes
keen plinth
for my last game jam I streamed music from youtube through the web browser
rigid fog
Nice nano
keen plinth
I don't think there are any violations/infridgments doing that
keen plinth
naw
small fern
it doesn't really matter that youtube hosts it
keen plinth
you just provide a link to someone elses service
small fern
you play it
but, you embed the player there, and youtube isn't in regular browser
I'll give an example
you make a game
where you drive a car
and you can turn the radio on
keen plinth
party in usa comes on
stable kiln
if u link it to an online radio..
keen plinth
I think its a bit of a grey area
keen plinth
websites often embed youtube videos on there own site whats the difference
small fern
those online sources have their own terms
how they can be used
I'd start by checking there
stable kiln
once again u need 10 lawyers to do a gamejam 😛
small fern
but would be crazy if you could just bypass all audio track royalties from streaming content from online services
it doesn't really work like that
well, I doubt nobody will get into trouble for doing that on game jam
but if you did that in commercial game, you would
rigid fog
You can do wahtever you want for a gamejam
stable kiln
a lawyer specialized in gamejams 😛
keen plinth
last game jam I made if you get the highest score you get to globally set a TV station that plays youtube video
but had compling issue and was late to submit
small fern
yeah, I saw the entry
stable kiln
totally do a copyright claim on allar for streaming my game 😛
small fern
you also didn't disclose the video and audio on your submission ;P
keen plinth
what would I disclose
small fern
fairly certain you didn't make them yourself
keen plinth
if the channel chosen is dynamic
small fern
so, if I put random music tracks, I don't need to disclose them?
I could apply that same logic for models and textures too 😄
"impossible to list, so I don't mention anything"
sorry, not trying to argue here, I just think you'd need to disclose using 3rd party streaming service
although I admit, it is obvious when you see the vid
tepid light
"this game stream random videos from the internet" - problem solved
rigid fog
@keen plinth you guys better disclose all assests not created by you, if you don't, that is definitely cheating.. But I know @Slapunas and jaki aren't going to cheat. So I trust them.
JR well, you already know my issues with him. Don't know you though.
Hope you guys don't get disqualified for a member's bad habits.
Hmmm
Wonder if mobile bug
Or intended feature
Cant mention 2
stable kiln
I dont know why it wouldnt be allowed to copy mechanics of an existing game
the art was just blocks so thats bound to be similar
if he allready put it on mobile store B4 and than enter it too thats kinda bad tho
mayB he picked a simple game he knew becouse he wanted to see if he could copy it
tepid axle
I figure if you need to look at legal issues too closely youre likely already heading in the wrong direction
Im sure we could set up a lawyer jam seperately
tepid light
Special jam that is all about who can bend the rules the most?
tepid axle
we should have a Jam Master who controls the rules and can change them through out
think youre doing good kid, think again... illegal move boom
austere glade
shadyjam
wind aspen
Where do you see the rules about disclosing your assets? I can't seem to find rules about this anywhere.
small fern
(detailed) rules are not up yet
you can find for past jams though
for september jam rules
megajam will probably have more specific rules
as prices are involved
but basically
this line Submission may include sourced (non-original) assets, but the sourced assets must be noted.
wind aspen
thanks Olento
small fern
np
I think Alexander mentioned he'll go rules through in more detailed manner on next thursdays stream when the jam theme gets announced
proven badge
last megajam you had to specifically mention if all your assets were original
grizzled zenith
I got my test project package down from 252mb to 134mb with those tricks
not bad
now got it to 112mb with my own trick, not sure if you know about it
basically just delete the Engine>Exstras folder
small fern
@grizzled zenith that is mentioned in official doc
grizzled zenith
oh, didn't see it
small fern
(Blacklisting)
Hmmm could be some other setting too, cant remember what was in that folder
Going for 100mb I see ;)
grizzled zenith
woah, got it to 68mb by making it shipping build
trying now with default third person without starter content
80mb, not bad at all
it has pretty high poly character and some animations
keen plinth
I like that 100mb challange very cool
grizzled zenith
disabled plugins -3mb
Can any of you get the 3rd person template package under 78mb?
slim light
did you turn off the crash reporter?
small fern
@grizzled zenith I can
(pack under that)
for the other question, I doubt you can remove physx / apex unless you do a custom engine build for it
stable kiln
that iclone competition is also rated on how well you explain how you made it, thats kinda genious 😛
tepid light
I tried reducing file size: "Fatal error!".. Great. This alert leaves no questions 😃
small fern
yeah, you get those if you blacklist things that are still being used
torpid nimbus
about megajam rules
i think everything has to be made in that time from scratch > no marketplace content etc
ive read that rule somewhere
glass fossil
you can use marketplace content, but you have to disclose it. at least that is my understanding
small fern
@torpid nimbus last year a game won that had mostly infinity blade assets
I'm mostly worried about audio
I guess most people still outsource it
I mean, you can do some sfx yourself, but music is kinda it's own thing
torpid nimbus
If i had some proper sound card , could record the guitar or anything but nope
20$ cost , hmm
newer ones 80 $
torpid nimbus
like external card ?
won't it lose a bit on quality ?
its tricky with the audio stuff
small fern
well, of course it's not proper ADC
cable has like cheapest sound card chip in it
but if you have a DAW, you can still do guitar amps there etc
grizzled zenith
I've actually played piano for 4 years, could record some music with that
no idea where my midi cable is
small fern
I have midi keyboard + guitar here
can't play really either one 😄
but I guess I could do some ambient stuff
but all this disclosing thing, I dunno if it's even worth the effort
small fern
because where we'd draw the line on some amazing VST
small fern
if I start disclosing instruments, my entry will look worse than just disclosing one music track
it's all about how things appear
basically sound and effects are ones that would need some special team member that does those well
torpid nimbus
takes time and effort
small fern
and usually special skills
I know the principles on these but I've tried to avoid doing too much of effect stuff myself
mainly just tweaked existing stuff to save time
small fern
there are ton of proper usb audio interfaces, but they don't cost like 20€ anymore 😄
main thing here is that cheap sound cards don't have proper instrument / mic input
they get the thing recorded though
small fern
yeh
torpid nimbus
ok ill get soundblaster propably once ill be able too 😛
too many things to spend on atm
and no jon
job
small fern
I should get myself audio interface as well
torpid nimbus
i dont need it to be honest , but its cool to record the guitar and have cool effects on pc
small fern
I have Apogee One but it doesn't work on windows
torpid nimbus
ill propably get soundblaster cause these are the only ones i know
small fern
heh
last SB I owned was SB X-FI or something
have SB AWE32 in past too
soundcard where you could add SDRAM memory to expand the onboard memory for midi soundbanks 😄
torpid nimbus
i never had any sound card
small fern
I've had ton of them
basically in the early pc gaming days, there weren't integrated soundcards
so you had to buy separate cards
and later on, I had HTPC setups so I needed better quality audio out
torpid nimbus
unity 3d game developer job offer
small fern
I'm atm using integrated sound, but it's wired to my external DAC via optical cable, so in theory sound should still be good
torpid nimbus
C# , animating , 3d art creation required
torpid nimbus
crappy company then
small fern
sounds like a company where is just 2 people
and the other one that tells what to do 😄
torpid nimbus
i so want to finish this environment but
there is no way to rush it
need like 2 sculptures more finished
and few more props
and that buddha sculpture takes most time , daays almost there though
i hope its gonna be decent since i dont do characters and its really small
small fern
hows the flying dolphin coming along?
torpid nimbus
moved to the buddha for now
working on dolphin when im at traineeship
something like this , hard out of cube
but almost there
stable kiln
blender?
torpid nimbus
zbrush so far only
from scratch and then UVs in blender once i get to it
but this one here is reference image hah
mine is somewhere in the middle of sculpting
need to get the cloth and fingers right , face is almost ok 😄
tepid light
From 200 MB to under 80. And it works. Great
stable kiln
if any team needs a character modeller ill give it my best shot 😃
i can do 2 and 3d, havent tried 1 and 4d but im willingto learn 😛
dawn basin
Strictly speaking, 8D is a thing too, so you have that to look forward to
stable kiln
i can model 1080d or 2p
stable kiln
or i can sing a song 😛
ill make a 3mb rap about 100 mb games
blow that competition away yo 😛
i wil rap hyperfast!
tepid light
Make a game about rapping
ashen meadow
parappa
sick smelt
Morning.
wind aspen
Good evening 😃
tepid light
good morning 😃
wind aspen
So ready for the epic jam. 😃
Going to see how many of my students I can get to enter this week.
stable kiln
still looking for a cool team 😃
wind aspen
I just discovered that renaming your project can prevent your game from packaging
It took me a while to work out why it would package at all
stable kiln
just migrate ur map or something 😛
wind aspen
Yeah so just in case you are having trouble packaging make sure you dont do it
Glad I test packaging now so i can work out the problems
somber hazel
So, I'm in the mood doing something with memes for the Jam, but I also don't want to go into jail. Can someone tell me what's in the gray area?
We had people putting John Cenas theme in a Jam which obviously he had no rights for
Will someone actually care if I put a fan art disclaimer and say nothing will be sold?
Obviously Epic can't play such games during their stream and worst case would be disqualification
If I'm not even allowed to talk in here about this topic, please delete my post and send me a pm ❤
small fern
well, last year the dev up game won, didn't it?
still kinda odd, considering it had real people in it
but they of course modeled them
somber hazel
oh, that's the one with todd howard and other big devs right?
somber hazel
Usually me 2, but I'm in the mood for internet points
Also Unreal needs a counter for that Shrek/MLG game
How did that guy even get away
glass fossil
It shouldn't be a problem, because game jam games are throw away for the most part. It might mean however that they won't show it on stream.
In that case it would mostly be due to audio.
pine fulcrum
Using public figures isn't a case of copyright
Its grounds for libel if you do something stupid though
Or if you commercialize their likeness without permission
lament oar
Can you not get away with it if your intended use is parody or satire though?
somber hazel
Well, someone can always say that I want to damage them with the parody
The MLG game had an info screen at start, where it states something about MLG, Dorritos, Mountain Dew are copyrighted and what not
Maybe that guy actually ask them for permission, should probably contact him
small fern
@pine fulcrum so I make an action game and put Arnold as players char and that would be fine?
I somehow doubt that would work like that
pine fulcrum
As long as you don't sell it, you could probably get away with it
See: All the shit on itch.io
small fern
well, they don't care, sure
lament oar
I actually had an idea for a game with the likeness of rambo and john matrix (commando) but im unsure if I can use their image even in parody, although Ikari Warriors did use the Rambo imagery and got away with it.
lament oar
cool. cuz this game idea is a total winner 😃
tepid light
Look at Broforce
small fern
just don't use real images
lament oar
yeah good point right there
tepid light
I think thats a perfect example of a good parody
and using a likeness without overdoing it
lament oar
when I get the prototype of this game done, I just know people will love it for at least the 5 minutes it takes to buy it and for me to run away with all the monies 😄
slim light
worst you're gonna get is a DMCA and have to take the game down.
but probably won't unless you put nintendo stuff in it
some stuff fis protected under parody, no marios sky for example could have fought the takedown but it's rarely worth it
so the meme run thing is somewhat amusing, as it was originally for Wii-U but got a takedown for using trollface wwithout permission...
rigid fog
MEGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAJAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM
somber hazel
HYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYPE!
glass fossil
small fern
super users can apparently!
glass fossil
❤
rigid fog
@cobalt arrow https://gyazo.com/27c884ba8f8e128c5892567cd03b6efd ???? Are you still trying to go over the 5-member limit?
small fern
he already said he will not count the project coordinator here
pretty sure epic will though
but well
technically he can look out for those and just accept 1 of them
but yeah, kinda odd to look out for them all
rigid fog
I don't get how hard it is to count to 5
If this were the case, I'd have my whole school doing the jam as a team.
Not really ofc
small fern
yeah, last time we discussed about this I said we could have lots of directors too, like art director, sound director and just not count them
but I dunno, maybe they just want to do things and not actually submit a game (because no way their entry with 7 team members would be accepted to the official jam)
rigid fog
TBH, my main problem will be keeping people from coming into the room
I didn't realize freaking SCAD day was this Saturday either
rigid fog
So there's literally going to be hundreds of kids touring that day
Savannah College of Art and Design
rigid fog
Pretty much, hardcore markeing to get new admissions
I got an inner room reserved the whole weekend though
small fern
can't you work that day on some other place?
rigid fog
Nah
I need the room for various reasons.
I might bring my nerfs guns
And just pew pew anyone who dares to enter
glass fossil
nice 😃
rigid fog
@coarse hedge You are not allowed to work on the gamejam project PRIOR to the game jam itself. That is definitely a rule. Currently you are in violation and can be subjected to disqualification. Regardless, if you wish to continue working on that project for the game jam, you must definitely admit having been working on it on your thread so that @ruby cradle and the other judges can take that into account.
tepid light
All this talk about not sticking to the team size limit reminds me of a story about a programmer who in secret hired a chinese company to do his work for him.
rigid fog
Nothing wrong with that
Unless the contract says he couldn't
Most ICAs (Independent Contractor Agreements) allow sub-contractors.
The contractor will have to pay out of pocket for them though.
I doubt that's true if it was a real employee/employer relationship though.
But I don't have that much experience in that department in the real world. So can't really comment on that.
glass fossil
to keep it a secret would end up being quite a bit of work managing them, you couldn't give them access to the repositories so any changes would end up going through the programmer himself. He'd also have to have a strong sense of what they were working on and how, so that he could convincingly talk about it in daily standups.
This is all assuming that they were using modern management techniques. If they were all silo'd in their own projects with no cross over and little day to day management then it would be easy to hide.
tepid light
UMG, animations, sequencer, particles... What else should I practice with before the jam.
wind aspen
Are any of you going to show your game jam dev on twitch?
small fern
3 days, 5 hours 43 minutes
topaz scroll
Hype!!!! xD
grizzled zenith
huh :/ the swag was supposed to arrive today
tepid light
When did you win?
grizzled zenith
bit over 2 months ago
maiden loom
it says clearance instructions are required, which suggests the package contains something that has customs handles differently to normal stuff
expect them to be dicks and send you a bill for the luxury of waiting longer
gray cedar
I'm new to game jams. Are we allowed to use Mixamo for the Mega game jam?
small fern
detailed rules will be out once the jam starts
in past that's been accepted, as long as you mention that in your jam entry
topaz scroll
normally you have to say what is yours, what is third party stuff, licensed etc
like: all art is made my the team apart from the UE manique
etc
small fern
rules only split it between noting sourced assets and what you've done yourself during the jam
I think on last megajam, you had to explicitly mention what you did youself
topaz scroll
yep
small fern
on regular jams you just need to list sourced stuff but people usually tell what they did still
it's just more clear
also, there have been winners without detailed asset listings too. for example the game that derzo won with had "lots of assets from site x" 😄
that was bit vague IMO
gray cedar
I see I see. thanks for the detailed answers
small fern
@grizzled zenith out of curiosity, were the all textures sourced from substance share?
I admit that just putting oneliner will look like there's been less sourced assets than listing 10-20 assets separately :p
grizzled zenith
What textures?
small fern
on highschool 101
grizzled zenith
idk, @proven badge textured them
small fern
Lots of substance materials from substance share```you guys listed all music still individually
grizzled zenith
oh, haven't even noticed that
proven badge
yea I used substance share materials for environment
small fern
yeah, it's not obvious as it's just oneliner
I might do that myself too if that's ok
because it looks less worse than listing each individually
proven badge
Rules allowed it, saw no harm in it.
tbh, substance share content does not require to be credited. You can treat it like your own commercial database and use it as you see fit.
grizzled zenith
if you think it's ok, it's probably fine
proven badge
I intented to clarify that so noone would have any suspicions about me making assets prior to jam
its not what I think. This was clarified by the Alexander and Chance during the previous megajam
though on that Jam they made a point that you must declare if all the assets were originally made during the jam and by yourself. From that day I declare it everywhere just to be on the safe side
small fern
@proven badge actually substance share content at least used to be CC-BY
it was originally CC-BY-SA until I questioned it and they actually changed it
because SA would be kinda disaster
proven badge
here you go
the moment you submit your content to substance share you agree that it can be used any way the user sees fit
small fern
@proven badge 1.2 In addition any Asset that you download from Substance Share that has been developed by Allegorithmic or that has been made available by third-parties ("Providers") that are not affiliated with Allegorithmic, will be subject to Allegorithmic’s standard Substance Share End User License Agreement ("Allegorithmic-EULA"), which is Creative Common's "Attribution 4.0 International" (please refer to http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/),
proven badge
Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0)
This is a human-readable summary of (and not a substitute for) the license.
Disclaimer
This license is acceptable for Free Cultural Works.
You are free to:
Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format
Adapt — remix, transform, and build upon the material
for any purpose, even commercially.
The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the license terms.
yeah, I know what CC-BY is
I think allegorithmic has said themselves that you don't need to credit assets you get from share but their license text tells otherwise
proven badge
fair point
fair use in this case would be to credit each material creator personally
small fern
basically attribute is the part that may cause some confusion
and I doubt anyone would attribute filters and generators from share
as they are more of a tools
proven badge
tbh this is what you would put into the credit section within the game,. A long wall of text scrolling up and down.
we just did not wanted to slam all that into a forum post
small fern
I'm usually the nitpicky guy on these things (hence questioning allegorithmic about CC-BY-SA)
proven badge
felt it was fair to mention where we got the assets from though
small fern
yeah, I'm ok with that if that's cool with Epic
because oneliner on post definitely doesn't look as bad as list of 20 assets 😄
proven badge
true that
small fern
btw CC-BY allows group crediting although it's preferred to credit each on individually
but you could just put the people in list and tell their work was licensed under CC-BY and it's technically still ok
proven badge
either way, noone is going to sue you over this. even if you don't properly credit them. Especially on a non commercial jam game
small fern
yeah, my point wasn't even about CC credits 😃
just if it's ok to mention "all assets in this category are sourced"
well it worked for your game clearly
small fern
yeah, but it's impossible to tell from the list you put 😄
I would happily source textures (I still prefer to do materials on unreal), audio and particles and just put message that I did that, in one sentence
proven badge
well if we ever pick up that game and develop it further for commercial release,. I give you my word that it will contain appropriate credits on each material ,its author and where it came from.
small fern
technically rules don't state how well you need to describe that, so I guess it is allowed
proven badge
Rules state that you can use 3rd party contnet as long as you have a right to use it
small fern
I mean the part about disclosing sourced assets
it doesn't tell how specificly you have to list them
proven badge
Yeah
small fern
for example, Alexander said that on last jam one entry almost won but then they saw most of the assets or was it art was sourced
when I looked at the list of submitted entries, I didn't really see anything that screamed "everything sourced" on their lists
proven badge
well
small fern
unless, they just didn't disclose them properly
proven badge
there are games that just use Infinity blade assets and and extension of Basic 3rd person blueprint
i can see where that is coming from
small fern
hmmm, now that I think about it, I did disclose engine content textures as one liner myself too
didn't really use any of them as is on any surface though
stable kiln
still kinda lookin for a team 😛
maiden loom
hehe, under 100MB is a challenge, even solo
tepid light
not rly. 20 min of work to figure out the settings and you can go under 80MB. that leaves you with 20MB for assets.
and gameplay logic doesn't use much space
maiden loom
so like, a mesh, a texture, and an audio cue, right xD?
tepid light
Well, for me it might be easier as my game would consists only of basic shapes in different basic colors anyway 😛
Does ue4 support midi files? That would solve a soundtrack problem 😛
maiden loom
it does not
tepid light
Soundtrack might be something hard to do in under 100MB if you want to have more than 5 minues of it.
maiden loom
I have my ways
small fern
me too
and 5 minutes of 16 bit music goes really easily on default off compression
I got my previous jam entry way below 100 MB and it had 5 minute sound track
glass fossil
The real challenge is submitting a game OVER 100GB and getting them to review it
small fern
I promised myself I don't tip off anymore to competition on 100MB thing
small fern
I've already practically told how to get under 60MB
@glass fossil you could go Quantum Break.. and stream live filmed cutscenes
that would be awesome
glass fossil
take advantage of a very flexible system and watching the stream, build the game AS they play it
small fern
I can already imagine programmers doing cosplay for gamejam
well, I guess it's not cosplay if it's for you game
but then you could use the same gear and do gamejam game cosplay
after jam
tepid light
lol. You complete a level... and a "loading" screen pops up, that shows a twitch stream of you, building that level.
glass fossil
Alexander: I really wish there were cats in this.
Dev: frantically starts adding cats to the next section
rigid fog
Win
small fern
oh right
good tip
gotta have cats
not sure if rocket packs count anymore
it didn't grant instawin last year either
glass fossil
double down, add cats with rocket packs
small fern
although.. I'd probably spend whole week to just get the cat animation done
rigid fog
and sell it for$200 on MP afterwards
feral halo
We are looking for a couple artists for our jam project
if anyone is up for it shoot me a message
small fern
I really wish Jan & co wouldn't have done the rabbit game 😄