actually two reasons
#lounge
solid aurora
- They had anti truest law suits which they lost in the past
wet smelt
and egs
isnt the top store for games
its steam
so this doesnt really apply
oh wait
solid aurora
- Windows is already "open" it's hard to enforce that
you miss the point
by your logic
Microsoft have every fucking right
to ban every other store on windows
because they own windows
ionic timber
solid aurora
so
wet smelt
which isnt really good at all
solid aurora
so
solid aurora
double standards then ?
solid aurora
ok
wet smelt
but
solid aurora
yes
wet smelt
wut
zinc matrix
yes
carmine frigate
yea
carmine frigate
i have 3 π
wet smelt
oh what? apple charges 30%? oh pull all ur apps out of it
solid aurora
no money for marketing -;-
wet smelt
jesus christ
solid aurora
so
we don't change anything
for better
just play along
because somone have power over us ?
carmine frigate
4 times 30 is 120 π
wet smelt
well that means the company is gonna go under
which isnt really great come to think abt it
which means
no storefront to sell one
*on
wet smelt
apple doesnt charge for third party installed apps
solid aurora
or no stores
solid aurora
right
wet smelt
so this renders ur argument invalid
solid aurora
not really
wet smelt
because apple only takes a chunk when u sell on their marketplace
like any other store
solid aurora
you don't have to jailbreak windows to install anything
wet smelt
in any other place
in any other country
you don't have to jailbreak windows to install anything
@solid aurora we arent really talking bout jailbreaking do we
wet smelt
you can
you just have to
refresh it every 7 days
search cydia impactor
so yeaaa
they only charge thru marketplace
which is more than fari
wet smelt
you should train legs
so tldr; epic games is being dumb with their lawsuit
and suing a company for breaking TOS isnt really the way to go
fluid bloom
are you familiar with the microsoft antitrust saga in the early 2000's?
fluid bloom
what's your take on it, how does it compare to this situation?
wet smelt
microsoft handled the situation like shit
killing competition isnt really the way to go
its kind of an analogy to what tf is happening today
buy
*but
thing is
epic games breached the terms and conditions
and apple isnt really killing any competition
theyre just charging 30%
fluid bloom
terms and conditions mean jack shit
fluid bloom
no
TOS can't be used to agree on anything that is illegal
it doesn't give them immunity
wet smelt
fair
except those yes
but when technically legal
then yh
theyre immune
they could say
ancient hornet
wet smelt
they said yes to insert portion of tos here
ancient hornet
Epic broke the ToS, but Epic argues that Apple broke the higher ToS : the Law
wet smelt
how doe
ancient hornet
Sherman Act
wet smelt
they didnt break the law by taking action against a breach of agreement now did they
then maybe steam should be sued to
or wait for it
epic games themselves
ancient hornet
that's not what is argued
ancient hornet
they argue that they have been breaching the law already
before Epic did that Fortnite update
wet smelt
when epic also was breaching the law
ancient hornet
oh wait, I see the type
ancient hornet
you hate Epic because Tim stole some games from your dear Steam client
wet smelt
control
ancient hornet
ok
wet smelt
bruh
its monopolizing innit
same with ps4
windows
its a jackshit argument really
ancient hornet
you have no idea what you are talking about and have 0 clue about what is anti-trust and why it exists
fluid bloom
EGS isn't a monopoly
wet smelt
it is tho
fluid bloom
PC is an open platform
wet smelt
exclusivity contracts
fluid bloom
every single publisher is free to make their own store
wet smelt
how about playstation then
fluid bloom
that is not the same
ancient hornet
is the customer harmed by EGS? and by harm it has to mean like, because of EGS there's at least a 10% extra markup on the market, just because of them
wet smelt
is playstation
ancient hornet
else it's hardly harm
fluid bloom
stop hitting your enter all the time
mossy nexus
You can't argue with a brick wall, which is what this conversation looks like
wet smelt
goes both ways bud
fluid bloom
artists are free to choose whatever record label they want to use
ancient hornet
is Epic mandated by law to sue everyone?
fluid bloom
I have no idea about that
wet smelt
they sign exclusive contracts, thereby eliminating competition among consoles
because playstation games arent on xbox
fluid bloom
they also fund development
ancient hornet
they also help with marketing and spend a lot of money to build up their install base
mossy nexus
Epic are not wanting a special deal for themselves in this case. They are wanting Apple to lower costs to ALL developers.
ancient hornet
iPhone install base is already built up and is a net and huge cash flow for Apple as it is
ancient hornet
if PS5 is dominant and still present in 10 years because there's no more console generations
they they'll get in trouble
wet smelt
so the antitrust argument is jackshit
ancient hornet
you cannot argue that Epic cannot sue Apple for 30% because they didn't sue Sony first for 30% XD
that's not how it works
ancient hornet
I'm saying your making stupid analogies
wet smelt
that apple is breaching antitrust laws
mossy nexus
you're making shit up, that's what you're doing
wet smelt
sony signs exclusivity contracts, so that effectively kills the market
ancient hornet
even if Sony is guilty, it is NOT Epic's job to go after them
ancient hornet
Epic goes after what it can and what they feel harms them
wet smelt
when other companies are technically also breaching them
mossy nexus
I think that
maybe
just maybe
You don't have a clue about
Such laws
mossy nexus
apparently not
fluid bloom
I doubt you get the gist
I mean, your nickname has the words yeet and 420 in it
π
mossy nexus
all praise the random internet lawyer
ancient hornet
wet smelt
I mean, your nickname has the words yeet and 420 in it
@fluid bloom ad hominem tu quoque
fluid bloom
yea I know
wet smelt
cunt
fluid bloom
sorry
hasty cargo
but sir, everyone was doing it
ancient hornet
the fact Epic isn't suing Sony, doesn't mean they aren't in the right Β―_(γ)_/Β―
mossy nexus
it's amusing to see some muppet think they can argue law and law cases
fluid bloom
I think Epic would be more than happy to launch their own store on ios
but apple doesn't allow it
they have a monopoly on the ios market
ancient hornet
and I for one would be more than happy for some alternate portable stores to launch on smartphones π
wet smelt
no one ever makes their own store lmfao on any other os (excluding desktop ones
epic wouldve handled this better
fluid bloom
on android epic tried it
wet smelt
epic couldve not broken apples TOS
instead they shouldve tried to launch their own store on ios
fluid bloom
this convo reminds me of that one south park episode with the human centipad
wet smelt
then when apple bans them
fluid bloom
epic asked apple if they could launch one
wet smelt
then epic has a case
fluid bloom
didn't they?
wet smelt
concerning antitrust laws
epic asked apple if they could launch one
@fluid bloom no
what they did was just go under apples in app purchase system
which is a no-no on any storefront
except for supermarkets
so yeaaaaa
fluid bloom
On June 30, 2020, Epic emailed Apple requesting to offer a competing Epic Games Store app through the App Store that would allow iOS device users to install apps from Epic directly, rather than through the App Store and to offer payment processing options within Epicβs apps other than IAP. On July 10, Apple responded that βApple has never allowed this [...] we strongly believe these rules are vital to the health of the Apple platform and carry enormous benefits for both consumers and developers.β
wet smelt
oh wait wut fr
ne'er seen this yet
epic represents germany in 1944 lmao
losing the fight on both fronts
fluid bloom
...okay
zinc matrix
guys
if i remade my MMO now
it would be ssos much better code wise and performance
wet smelt
if epic just decided to not be childish
zinc matrix
but it took me 6 months :V
fluid bloom
I think it's clear apple doesn't want to do that
wet smelt
i think its clear epic games didnt even try negotiating in the first place
ancient hornet
Apple will only gerrymander their byzantine rules if you are a major player like Netflix or Amazon
wet smelt
apple jus said no and they went batshit
they couldve given other terms
like giving apple a 10% cut per se
mossy nexus
ancient hornet
the Epic plan wasn't conceived entirely since July 10, this asking and following reject was to add to the lawsuit I suppose
wet smelt
other mobile companies were literally fine with it
zinc matrix
its funny when people are objective https://i.imgur.com/KB5Fk5f.png
wet smelt
tell that to steam lol
zinc matrix
itss inhuman
gilded lichen
Steam is a garbage
wet smelt
yes
mossy nexus
Steam at least provide services for that 30%
zinc matrix
ssteam is anticc
wet smelt
steam has better services yo
gilded lichen
Steam proivides shit for 30%
zinc matrix
steam gonna get pushed out by Epic
wet smelt
they actually give a shit (defo not abt csgo but ye)
gilded lichen
Collection cards?
wet smelt
steam gonna get pushed out by Epic
@zinc matrix ahahahah funny joke. please give us another one
ancient hornet
btw you said that "before Epic complained nobody was against the 30%"
well that's plain wrong π
customers have been suing Apple since 2011 for that
gilded lichen
He is a steamboy
mossy nexus
Product pages, forums, reviews, etc etc.
zinc matrix
ahahahah funny joke. please give us another one
i alrdy hv more game on epic than steam
gilded lichen
@mossy nexus so what? That bullshit costs 30%? I bet it doesn't cost even a 1%
mossy nexus
So you're argument is based on a lack of knowledge @gilded lichen ?
wet smelt
its kinda dumb to argue that 30%
gilded lichen
And yes, I don't use steam enymore since gaben turned it into gipsy bullshit with playing cards and achievements
wet smelt
i like how everyone i was arguing with earlier is now fighting against a common enemy
thanks all
but yea piggulp
ur argument is dumb hot shit
mossy nexus
Steam is also a shitstorm, but that's entirely differnent
ancient hornet
i like how everyone i was arguing with earlier is now fighting against a common enemy
that seems like a gross exaggeration π
wet smelt
Steam is also a shitstorm, but that's entirely differnent
@mossy nexus i mean like yea it defo is indeed
gilded lichen
valve is way shittier than epic
wet smelt
valve is way shittier than epic
@gilded lichen they fr dont sign exclusivity contracts
tf u on
gilded lichen
I love their recent position not to mention other shops in the steam forums
zinc matrix
i wont ever put game on steam
ancient hornet
I like Epic's take a lot more than whatever Valve does for sure
zinc matrix
30% meme
ancient hornet
Valve doesn't need to sign exclusivity contracts because of their position of market leader
gilded lichen
@wet smelt I don't get why people so hateful about exclusives, I bet valve put money to anti market those
ancient hornet
Epic takes 12% which makes a massive difference for game devs
gilded lichen
Because I think that what valve's doing worse.
ancient hornet
it's easy to have the high ground and say "hey, no guns, do you see me shooting people with guns?" while kicking down those that try to climb in the face π
wet smelt
@wet smelt I don't get why people so hateful about exclusives, I bet valve put money to anti market those
@gilded lichen im not being hateful about em, just saying
ancient hornet
that's Valve
gilded lichen
It's like hey despite valve is total garbage, invented lootboxes, tried to sell mods and selling them, turn steam into a shit, add playing card, being sues for anti-consumer practices... BUTY EPIC IS WORSE BECAUSE OF EXCLUSIVES!~
wet smelt
gonna wait till it has those
gilded lichen
This is trash-talk
zinc matrix
but it doesnt have steam's features
what features
wet smelt
ingame chat
devout berry
At the end of the day Epic is a multi billion dollar corporation, but having exclusives is the ONLY, and I repeat the ONLY way to get your store at least somewhat competitive.
zinc matrix
add ur own?
ancient hornet
Discord overlay?
gilded lichen
I buy games to play them and support devs, I don't see a single feature why I should buy games in steam
ancient hornet
Valve situation is very similar to Apple and co
gilded lichen
Some steam buys talk about some FEATURES, but don't tell what exactly
wet smelt
talking to a bludy rock doesnt help
ancient hornet
a big player gets a foothold in a market and uses it's money to prevent competition from installing itself
zinc matrix
steam is better cause it has ingame chat (asuming gamedevs are not smart enough to add their own)" - Taggable 2020
wet smelt
but its still good
zinc matrix
did he just offend all of u gamedevs
mossy nexus
On a side note Jack Sherman is deid.
ancient hornet
when Valve bundles a lot of the Steam client features to purchasing a game on Steam, they are leveraging a semi monopoly for their benefit
gilded lichen
It's not, I'd rather pirate than buy game from steam,
ancient hornet
Epic is forced to give away EOS for free instead
Epic could be selling it but there's no point
devout berry
I have about 1k games on steam and I don't really use 90% of the features exclusive to steam
ancient hornet
this is the American dream I guess, people see a small company build up their own market, then they get to exploit it as they wish?
ancient hornet
problem is, this kind of massive vertical integration starts to break down when the company behind it gets abusive
which is why there should be enforced laws and checks against that
gilded lichen
Oh yes, I hate steam because they made workshop. Now I have to buy a game thtough their shop to have mods.
ancient hornet
Epic says that Apple went past the rules and is now abusive and should be punished by the law
gilded lichen
If bought the game on GOG or Epic - fuck you asshole, no mods from steam.
This is bullshit
mossy nexus
Nexus
wet smelt
at the end of the day
just
please pretty please
buy any game
from any storefront
and enjoy the game
and leave a review
mossy nexus
and type in entire sentences so it's easier to read ?
wet smelt
if u wanna throw hands name a time and place
ancient hornet
if you are making such short sentences spam, you could at least make the effort and have them rhyme!
gilded lichen
π€
wet smelt
still doesnt change the fact that epic games is kinda making dumb lawsuits
reciprocating what bluehole sued epic for 2 years ago
devout berry
they're really not dumb
wet smelt
its less dumber than blueholes
devout berry
it's really not even close to the same type of lawsuits
wet smelt
but the points are kinda not it
mossy nexus
They are playing a PR battle, making Apple look like that bad guy. It's a very clever move. It's not about what they say it's about π
wet smelt
like yea sure apple break antitrust, apple bad, but dont other companies do the same
devout berry
they're lawsuits that need to happen
wet smelt
They are playing a PR battle, making Apple look like that bad guy. It's a very clever move. It's not about what they say it's about π
@mossy nexus its kinda unfair cuz they didnt do google one too
mossy nexus
Irrelevant.
devout berry
and it's better not that apple is hit with anti trust investigations from other places as well
wet smelt
i like how epic is picturing themselves as the guy fighting against the big dog
devout berry
well comparatively they are
wet smelt
self righteous cunts
devout berry
apple is worth 100x or so?
foggy path
it's funny reading these theories which read as if this was some kind of schoolyard fight lol
ancient hornet
its kinda unfair cuz they didnt do google one too
I want to see Apple on the judge argue that XD they'd get laughed out of court
mossy nexus
2 tillion gross for Apple last year or something?
wet smelt
cant wait for these self righteous cunts to get their suit bounced out of the court
foggy path
you sound like an apple fanboy 
wet smelt
lmao
i dont even use apple
you sound like an apple fanboy :zomgmoFace:
@foggy path i like how youre still trying to beat my ass even if my points have been debunked
heres your fucking medal
π
ancient hornet
Epic is like Batman
devout berry
m8, you are on the unreal slackers and I assume you are a game developer and at least use unreal engine. Why would you like a suit that if they win it will have upsides on you personally, to lose?
talk about self loathing
foggy path
gr8 b8 m8
ancient hornet
the hero we need but not the hero we deserve
gilded lichen
He is valve fanboy, they are so aggressive and stupid.
ancient hornet
also, vigilante tactics aren't really "good" but as long as it gets the work done? π
that's Epic
wet smelt
He is valve fanboy, they are so aggressive and stupid.
@gilded lichen k
epic is throwing a fit cuz of not being allowed to make their own store
devout berry
nobody is arguing that epic is doing this for themselves. But them succeeding will have positives on game devs as well. Might not be their intention but it doesn't matter
they should be able to make their own store
ancient hornet
Epic is totally doing this for themselves but as long as they remain in the "rules" of good capitalism, it's a tradeoff well worth it
and it seems Tim is a sticker for that so
devout berry
once I buy an iphone I should be allow to install any app on it without breaking my warranty
not be constrained by apple
on what I can and can't install
wet smelt
i like how theyre painting apple as the bad capitalists and yet theyre also capitalizing on games
yike
once I buy an iphone I should be allow to install any app on it without breaking my warranty
@devout berry you can technically
ancient hornet
capitalizing on games? what the hell are you talking about
wet smelt
search cydia impactor
capitalizing on games? what the hell are you talking about
@ancient hornet ykno signing deals and whatnot. im not saying its bad, its still a capitalistic practice
and dont they also charge a fee
ancient hornet
I'm talking about having competition
wet smelt
if theyre gonna call themselves the ppl fighting capitalism then they should act the part ho right
ancient hornet
Apple is stifling competition and imposing their weight and power
Epic is spending so much money with giving free games and signing exclusivity deals just to get in the market
ancient hornet
and Epic is going after Google too
wet smelt
they kinda prioritised apple more than they did google
Epic is spending so much money with giving free games and signing exclusivity deals just to get in the market
@ancient hornet until they add something like workshop and steam community
im not moving
devout berry
google is allowing other stores
devout berry
please think before you say anything
devout berry
it does not
gilded lichen
Epic is totally doing this for themselves that is debateable
wet smelt
yes
devout berry
where does it?
wet smelt
jailbreak it
devout berry
ahaha
ancient hornet
that's dumb
wet smelt
not really
ancient hornet
jailbreaking voids warranty
devout berry
good argument
wet smelt
rooting also does it
wet smelt
and you could install .ipa files
search up cydia impactor
dumbfucks
without
without
devout berry
you don't need to root your android to install other store on android
wet smelt
voiding
you also could
there are stores on ios that you can install thru impactor
like tutu
or kuaiyong
zinc matrix
id rather epic Win but it kinda seems like they wont
zinc matrix
yeah but some rules are stupid
wet smelt
kinda ironic innit
ancient hornet
you do need to root your android to have the store work well though which is what Epic is arguing for in the lawsuit
ancient hornet
since Android is super hostile to apps that install other apps or the like and it gets more and more hostile with new versions
wet smelt
you do need to root your android to have the store work well though which is what Epic is arguing for in the lawsuit
@ancient hornet ye theres that; i tried installing mobogenie
but its kinda wacked
apple doesnt really care abt u jailbreaking lmao
so we could say
google is more of the bad guy here
zinc matrix
only normies have iphones anyway
ancient hornet
more than Apple? come on
wet smelt
being cunts with installing third party and whatnot
apple doesnt bat an eye if u install third party apps
but android?
lmao
gl
you gotta install patch files
ancient hornet
your view of the world is so weird and distorted
wet smelt
and whatnot
ancient hornet
Apple doesn't need to care about sideloading since it doesn't exist
it voids warranty
nobody does it much
they own the platform
wet smelt
fair enough
ancient hornet
and even then, I'm pretty sure they put more and more restrictions on sideloading tricks people use version after version
wet smelt
well ppl figure it out quicker than android
there are specific android versions
that to this day
still arent cracked
like android 5.1.1
or 6.0.1
its like
apple just lets it be
but u lose ur warranty privileges
so theres that
ancient hornet
at the minimum out of this, I'd like a ruling stating that it's illegal to prevent good customer information
ancient hornet
so vendors would be perfectly allowed to show users how much Apple takes
wet smelt
same with android lmao
ancient hornet
and should be allowed to tell them about alternatives
mossy nexus
why
do
you
type
like
this
?
It's
not
adding
anything
to
the
conversation
other
than
breaking
up
the
flow.
wet smelt
same with android lmao
gilded lichen
he is just trolling
wet smelt
why
do
you
type
like
this
?
It's
not
adding
anything
to
the
conversation
other
than
breaking
up
the
flow.
@mossy nexus if ur gonna keep going for ad hominem then sure
he is just trolling
@gilded lichen k
gilded lichen
it's kinda funny to observe your battle against his delirium
mossy nexus
battle assumes conflict, there isn't any. However it is amusing.
wet smelt
it's kinda funny to observe your battle against his delirium
@gilded lichen k
i let up cuz obviously pig gulp wont let up either
i HoPe EpIc wInS aPpLe bAd
sTeAm bAd
aight happy now
leave me the fuck alone
never even mocked you once
hasty cargo
haha that 1984 ad epic made though
its funny how far apple have come, you watch their product announcements and they are just like that
gilded lichen
Why some people dislike this short movie? I like it
hasty cargo
no I like it
gilded lichen
I saw some people complain about
ancient hornet
because team "Apple" and team "Fuck Epic" doesn't like it and it seems society is all about teams nowadays π’
myself I want them all to fight constantly to the death between themselves
that's the only way capitalism really works well
ancient hornet
I can root for an underdog for a time as long as he doesn't cause issues π the problem is always when they get too big and full of themselves
if we want to stop the Cyberpunk future where corporations took over government, we need to take a stand π
mossy nexus
Can I get a hat stand?
ancient hornet
and that stand is: getting them all to fight constantly together and expend resources against the other so that they cannot take over π
mossy nexus
but i wont say anything else
I bet that's not true π
hasty cargo
epic is trying to increase their own profit, while at the same time, reduce development costs for everyone, and costs for the consumer
they are really in the right tbh
ancient hornet
this is how capitalism works: exploiting people/companies greed in a way that benefits us the individuals in the end
Epic is perfectly in their own right to increase their own profit as long as they respect the rules that keep capitalism working in the way we want it to
which is, healthy competition for markets
Epic is fighting for a market to be restored to a "healthy competition" state, which benefits them (they are outside) and us the customers
so I'm with them (for now)
hasty cargo
yeah wish it worked like that
when a new challenger arrives we get π€ Huawei is bad guys ok they are evil don't buy them
from our governments
or tik-tok is bad ok we are going to ban them... unless they sell themselves to us
zinc matrix
guyds
i lived by the gun
but i will die
by the sword
slowly i gues https://i.imgur.com/Z93HoZ9.png
facing isssues from trying to rework a messy code
but it waas required
also dad threatening to turn off my internet
gilded lichen
I heard that Huaway stole mobile tech and also injected own spy chips in cellphones
zinc matrix
i someetimes think gamedev not worth the time
wet smelt
I bet that's not true π
@mossy nexus it is lmao
foggy path
results for me and a friend's UE4 based gamejam entry in Brackey's jam
this is out of about 1 800 entries... I'd say it went fairly well considering neither of us had ever done a gamejam :P
wet smelt
i mean my points earlier could be quite easily debunked
so yea
i kinda give up at this
im not taking sides
gilded lichen
EPIC is a great company. I would buy games there, if not GOG. Which is better in my opinion.
zinc matrix
dont you kno
wet smelt
wut
zinc matrix
dont you kno abt my game??
wet smelt
lmfao nah not yet
zinc matrix
i think i have to start over tho qq
ancient hornet
you never start over from scratch
you bring with you all the experience you accumulated
scenic glen
What are your thoughts 3d coat? It seems it is a all in one 3d software. I love seeing how they drew low poly and high poly meshes easily
gilded lichen
I heard that a some artists use it for hand paint and it's the best option for retopo.
But I didn't really use it, just for a dozen of hours testing.
ancient hornet
https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1296918541627793411
wow I didn't read the whole thing π
Apple is indeed rather misleading in what they say
alpine fern
of course they are
what's with all the idiots on twitter arguing that apple should continue imposing a 30% tax on everyone?
do they not like their money?
foggy path
it doesn't matter to them because they just use their free apps
or apps that cost 1-2 dollars
what's the difference between 10 or 30% of 2 dollars? next to nothing
:P
ancient hornet
Reddit laps up the Apple propaganda fine π
discussion seems not natural though
when in /r/apple you get a thread about Epic vs Apple it's like 100% Apple, but there are a lot of threads on the same reddit with different cases and they are a lot more anti Apple visibly
screams manipulation
alpine fern
apple has infinite money, you really think they won't hire internet trolls to fight the fortnite players?
proven thorn
People don't like change.
solid aurora
because as I said earlier
if it was Microsoft not apple
people would already be out with pitch forks
the only difference between MS and Apple here is
that Microsoft already lost anti trust law suits
and they just do not try to impose MS store and abn everything else
that would end up in court instantly
and they would lost before it would event start
proven thorn
Apple has lost antitrust cases before as well.
solid aurora
yeah, just not on the scale of Microsoft which tried to monopolize internet [;
ancient hornet
I wonder if we could settle with a ruling forcing vendors to detail the shares of everyone directly involved in app stores
proven thorn
All big companies try to monopolize their economies.
And it is especially easy if they own a platform.
solid aurora
i know, my point beign we should not allow them to do it
the people who arguie that apple has right to do whatever
alpine fern
a company should not be allowed to own a platform with billions of users to begin with
solid aurora
would lost their shit if windows did not allow to install third party applications
alpine fern
something like that must be converted into a public utility
proven thorn
I don't really agree with that.
ancient hornet
break them up!
proven thorn
Creating a platform is not exactly cheap to do.
ancient hornet
who cares?
alpine fern
it has too much influence over peoples lives to keep leaving it up to "just do whatever"
solid aurora
when something is becoming in factr utility
zinc matrix
would lost their shit if windows did not allow to install third party applications
TRU
solid aurora
windows is essentialy utility
proven thorn
I mean it's two sided coin right, the amount of resources required to create a platform is huge.
solid aurora
yes
ancient hornet
it's not that huge
they started small
and it worked fine
it's self reinforcing
solid aurora
but if you get to the point that this platform start to control public life
then
it become utility
otherwise
we endup in dystopian cyberpunk
ancient hornet
exactly
proven thorn
For Apple, it required them to make the device in the first place.
ancient hornet
and they make a TRUCKLOAD of money from device sales
proven thorn
For Steam, I think it was both timing and having a hot product
solid aurora
usually endup in few mega corporation controlling everything
proven thorn
Developing the iPhone / iPad was probably not that cheap.
I mean, Ouya tried and failed with a few million.
ancient hornet
they have $200B in raw cash reserves
ancient hornet
it might not be cheap but they sure gouge everyone in the market for it now
solid aurora
Apple has cult following
proven thorn
Absolutely, I don't disagree with you.
ancient hornet
the point is that, since they sidestep the requirements of competition
the price of the services aren't "correct"
they are inflated for their own benefits
proven thorn
Well, for that to happen, it takes two to tango right
They need the market to pick up the device
And that might change in the next few years
ancient hornet
And that might change in the next few years
companies do not have some god given right to "always earn more money"
solid aurora
it took years to codminate market
but once that happened you had absolute control over it
zinc matrix
years is nothing
proven thorn
iPhone might lost traction is a few places like China and India
ancient hornet
don't worry, Apply is working hard deleting any app that China doesn't like π
solid aurora
you know what I think
everybody assumes that Tim does it for money
which is normal assumption
but not ditruptive
if he does not do it for money
then Apple does not really have counter tactics ;p
proven thorn
Well it depends
solid aurora
becuase they have not idea what to expect
proven thorn
Looks like recently, Trump administration has said that the WeChat ban doesn't extend to iPhones in China
alpine fern
he doesn't want apple to take 30% of all revenue generated by the Metaverseβ’οΈ that epic is building
proven thorn
But if that didn't occur, you'd probably see that China would stop buying iPhones
ancient hornet
Epic has been rather careful in not binding together their services too much
proven thorn
But other things could happen to that are out of Apple's control
Maybe Tencent says, fuck you Apple and takes WeChat off the app store too
ancient hornet
they should probably end the "you don't pay UE4 on EGS" bonus though if they want to keep it clean
ancient hornet
well for now it's fine but that's the kind of "goodies" that brings the antitrust problems π
it's fine because the market share and control of such "offer" is rather tiny
proven thorn
No one should like monopolies but for some reason, people don't care if it doesn't really affect them that much
At least companies don't own armies any more π
It'll really depend on how much it will impact Apple's bottom line.
solid aurora
if they loose ?
Probabaly not that much
but they actually fear it will be precedent
rich quiver
@ancient hornet tim tweeting the emails is bad idea since it can be use in a counter claim
ancient hornet
I don't think he tweeted the emails before Apple made them public
alpine fern
he made them public after apple publicly misrepresented what was said
wet smelt
Tim is the dumbest executive lmao
He doesnt know he could get slammed for defamation or sumn idk
alpine fern
defamation doesn't apply if you are telling the truth
wet smelt
Epic has a p solid point with their case, but theyre handling it like shit
I like epic trying to sneak in stores thru other oses
But thing is
U cant just sue someone cuz they said no
ancient hornet
sure you can if they broke the law
wet smelt
I mean
foggy path
the idea that epic is "handling it like shit" is kind of silly
wet smelt
Theres that
foggy path
you do realize that these are billion dollar companies
ancient hornet
wrong
foggy path
and not a single tweet from anyone relating to this goes through unless lawyers approve it first
:P
ancient hornet
it's a trillion dollar company and a billion dollar company!
Apple is worth a 100 Epic π
wet smelt
sure you can if they broke the law
@ancient hornet shouldve done it to the other ones too then ye
foggy path
nobody gets to be a CEO of a billion dollar company by being stupid enough to tweet shit that would fuck you over in an instant
foggy path
especially if you planned the entire lawsuit campaign miles in advance :p
wet smelt
nobody gets to be a CEO of a billion dollar company by being stupid enough to tweet shit that would fuck you over in an instant
@foggy path indeed
rigid shoal
FUNDING SECURED
ancient hornet
that would be Apple arguing that "no they can't sue us, there are other criminals in the world!"
wet smelt
But thats wut tim is doing
foggy path
is he though? how do you know?
wet smelt
Tweeting shit he shouldnt
Causing more drama than needs be
that would be Apple arguing that "no they can't sue us, there are other criminals in the world!"
@ancient hornet fair
foggy path
on the level these companies play in everything is calculated well in advance
ancient hornet
the music that played when Tim pressed the button on the Fortnite update
foggy path
they aren't causing any more drama than they intend to
ancient hornet
mossy nexus
Making a counter argument to the public statement made by Apple isn't daft.
ancient hornet
this ^
wet smelt
Idk epic is being ballsy but its gonna be interesting to watch
ancient hornet
he doesn't even show new info? he's just pointing to text in the emails Apple quoted themselves
mossy nexus
Exactly, there was no confidential details in the tweet.
mossy nexus
Lawyers are the only ones that will win anything
ancient hornet
thing is, Apple fake news department works well because you have a lot of social media parroting their lies π
wet smelt
Apple is breaking the law yes, but on the other hand, epic is breaching a contract that they signed with apple when they started selling fortnite thru app store
ancient hornet
there should be some form of payment back/amend for when you are blatantly wrong on social media π
wet smelt
So unless if someone manages to uncover dirt on epic or apple
Then it might shift the tides
In anyones favor
thing is, Apple fake news department works well because you have a lot of social media parroting their lies π
@ancient hornet same could be said for most companies
Gotta keep the bullshit business up one way or another
ancient hornet
doesn't make it right in this case
proven thorn
@foggy path Well ... there is Trump π
foggy path
@proven thorn he's just the exception that confirms the rule lol
ancient hornet
Trump likely won't be in power at all when that case is concluded
proven thorn
I kind of want to bet that Trump is going to be re-elected.
wet smelt
Trump is delusional asf
ancient hornet
even if he is, I'm not sure that case will be done in 4 years π
if you tell me he'll STILL be there in more than 4 years though, it gets scarry
wet smelt
This
proven thorn
So Epic Games does have a legal standing, which is the somewhat related to the recent supreme justice court ruling surround whether customers can sue Apple for anti-competitive behaviour on the AppStore.
wet smelt
And google too
wet smelt
Same with ios lol
proven thorn
And you can side load legally.
proven thorn
You don't break any terms and conditions with Android phones.
ancient hornet
all I know when I search for cydia impactor is that a lot of people are looking for cydia impactor alternatives
proven thorn
And there are also Android phones that don't come with the PlayStore pre-installed.
ancient hornet
doesn't make me trust that much π
wet smelt
It just sideloads the app into ur ios device, no tomfuckery done with ur system
proven thorn
Pre-installation is the big one.
wet smelt
doesn't make me trust that much π
@ancient hornet it works doe lmao at least for me
proven thorn
As that is how Microsoft got done with anti trust laws with IE
wet smelt
And there are also Android phones that don't come with the PlayStore pre-installed.
@proven thorn fr?
Dang
proven thorn
Oh yeah, you can buy Samsung phones with no Play Store on them
ancient hornet
Unless you have a paid developer account you will have to reload every 7 days.
and it seems Apple is making it tougher and tougher
proven thorn
You can buy Huawei (and other Chinese phones) that have Android on them with no PlayStore
wet smelt
Same with android lol
ancient hornet
like limiting you to 3 apps installed that way? I heard
proven thorn
Also, Apple has banned side loading.
wet smelt
Even manually flashing my own rom
Which voids warranty
Also, Apple has banned side loading.
@proven thorn sauce
ancient hornet
I'm not even sure why it matters
proven thorn
They don't ban the customer, they ban the developer
proven thorn
As an App developer, you have to be registered with Apple
You can kind of develop iOS apps in a vacuum, but it's really hard
proven thorn
If you make an app that is side loadable, they revoke your developer permissions
proven thorn
And from memory, you have to do a bunch of things to get your device registered as a dev device
proven thorn
The PC platform itself is never going to have this problem really
thin storm
maybe the plan is, to get apple users to buy windows phone. no one knows.
proven thorn
Because you can do whatever you want with it
wet smelt
Aye
proven thorn
And same with Steam
wet smelt
Even more so with linux
proven thorn
Because there are other stores you can use
wet smelt
Yh
proven thorn
It is, because how can Spotify compete with Apple's iTunes if it has to add a 30% mark up to its subscriptions.
It can't compete on price
proven thorn
Spotify lowers its margins
foggy path
Spotify pays out like ass to artists though, somehow I doubt they would pay any better with this tbh
wet smelt
Spotify pays out like ass to artists though, somehow I doubt they would pay any better with this tbh
@foggy path indeed
proven thorn
I mean, that's another question; but that's the case
wet smelt
Spotify pays fucking pennies
ancient hornet
they would pay even less if Apple took their 30% share π
proven thorn
If Apple for example, enters into space; it immediately screws with people in that space
ancient hornet
a flat 30% is the dumbest thing alive
ancient hornet
if your company has such tiny thin margins to be profitable
wet smelt
Oh
proven thorn
Let's just assume for now it hasn't
ancient hornet
and Apple takes 30% gross
wet smelt
K
ancient hornet
it means Apple is profiting 100x more than you from your work
wet smelt
Spotify doesnt have tiny thin margins
It takes a lot
Lmfao
it means Apple is profiting 100x more than you from your work
@ancient hornet google too lmao
proven thorn
And then other providers are going to be like ... well, I have to give you 30% from my profit ... and Apple can either lower their price or keep it the same
ancient hornet
and so what?
proven thorn
Either way, Apple is making more money
ancient hornet
why are you constantly deflecting the conversation to google or others?
it matters as much as it doesn't matter
proven thorn
But if Apple decided to just make it 30% cheaper... well, now there's problems
wet smelt
Cuz feels like yall are just attacking specifically applr
ancient hornet
we KNOW others take the absurd 30% margin
but Apple specifically is even worse here because they have their own music subscription
proven thorn
Xbox and Playstation are the same
ancient hornet
imagine you have the choice of paying $1 to Apple or $1 to Spotify for basically the same service
wet smelt
but Apple specifically is even worse here because they have their own music subscription
@ancient hornet dont see wuts wrong
proven thorn
@ancient hornet Or rather, imagine having a choice of paying $0.7c to Apple or $1 to Spotify
wet smelt
Then maybe spotify should pull out
proven thorn
Most consumers usually go for the cheaper price
ancient hornet
if Apple and Spotify split the market 50/50 it's equivalent for Apple earn $1.3 per subscription and Spotify $0.7
the difference is INSANE
there's no way Spotify can compete in that environment, at all
proven thorn
Well, there's a question of whether you allow monopolies to exist
wet smelt
Its called competition innit; cant have only 1 streaming service
proven thorn
But it's not competition
ancient hornet
there is not competition with those rules
proven thorn
It's exactly the opposite.
wet smelt
Theres google music, which is hot shit that noone uses, but then theres yourube music
Well its one plat
wet smelt
So spotify still earns more rhan apple music can hope to
ancient hornet
and who cares right now? stop deflecting to Google
wet smelt
Do you buy sunglasses?
@proven thorn no
ancient hornet
Apple has 60% of the app store payment market
proven thorn
And if you do own a pair of sunglasses, there was at one point a SINGLE company that owned every sunglass brand and sunglass store in the world.
ancient hornet
I think that's worldwide? if so this is probably a LOT more just in the US market
proven thorn
And they owned everything, manufacturing, stores, brands, etc
So even if you want to buy a different brand, from hopefully someone different, you couldn't
Because they owned that vertical integration
wet smelt
Yea
proven thorn
Their stranglehold is less now, because now you have internet
wet smelt
Fair
wet smelt
Same for playstation and xbox yo
proven thorn
if you want to know more about the sunglasses monopoly
wet smelt
No choice but to use thwir store
ancient hornet
more deflecting the issue
proven thorn
Microsoft and Sony run the same potential anti trust legal issues.
wet smelt
Ye
wet smelt
I know that the fuck it means lmao
ancient hornet
we don't care that Epic doesn't attack the others
wet smelt
I speak latin professionaly
ancient hornet
TΕ« quoque (; Latin for "you also"), or the appeal to hypocrisy, is an informal fallacy that intends to discredit the opponent's argument by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with its conclusion(s)
ancient hornet
then stop deflecting with "but google" or "but sony"
wet smelt
But such is the battleground of debating
ancient hornet
throwing fallacies after fallacies?
wet smelt
Ppl are gonna use every hole they can use
If u cant handle it then maybe u arent built out for public debayes
*debates
ancient hornet
if you repeat a fallacy, you don't get to criticize me for calling you on it just because I already signaled that specific fallacy before π
wet smelt
Fair
proven thorn
At the moment, Apple does have a monopoly on their platform.
And so does Xbox and Playstation
wet smelt
if you repeat a fallacy, you don't get to criticize me for calling you on it just because I already signaled that specific fallacy before π
@ancient hornet but being cunty abt it is digression from the orig argument
So ur basically moving off the orig point
proven thorn
Google less so with Android
ancient hornet
I'm not the one that got offended to be called on their fallacious arguments
proven thorn
They still have incredible sway though
foggy path
you're lecturing him about how to debate while yourself ignoring the same things?
that makes sense
wet smelt
Im acknowledging me using everything to edge out this guy