Apple doesn't care if UE and Epic are separate companies under one entity
#lounge
rich quiver
foggy widget
the application was not the problem sir; Epic made a software change on their own accord; they did NOT provide this to the public to use; they did NOT put this in UE
light spruce
That's not relevant.
What's relevant is the action the company took.
It doesn't matter how many software products they have or what percentage of them they used to violate the agreement. They, as a company did so.
wintry cliff
Lol I don't think it's worth the effort @foggy widget . The nuance of how and who this effects is lost when a rigid stance is taken and there's going to be no way you're going to convince Justin to accept that.
foggy widget
you can call it what you want. retaliation against UE users is what the community as a whole feels this is what this is - it is holding every single user of UE responsible. UE didn't do this, UE does not have the capability out of the box to do this. Epic did this of their own accord, and may have done it without UE, who knows.
light spruce
My stance is that Epic chose to do something stupid.
foggy widget
but again, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. The public opinion is what determines a lot of what happens behind closed doors
IMO, there is no way apple is going to hold UE hostage
no, that is a fact
rich quiver
and its nothing new to apple
light spruce
Epic put everyone in this position.
foggy widget
Tim Sweeney is very intelligent human being. I am sure he and his team know exactly what they are doing.
wintry cliff
Tim's def been planning it for a bit.
foggy widget
Notice how this happened instantly. They definitely read up on law before they did this
light spruce
Apple responded with the provisions that were part of their developer agreement. Nothing about that is surprising.
rich quiver
but the effect of holding UE hostage will be long term for apple
wintry cliff
As for knowing exactly what they're doing. I'm sure they did not expect Apple to go after UE in retaliation for Fortnite.
foggy widget
and if apple does lower the apple tax as a result of this, you can thank Mr. Sweeney
Look sir, aggrements do not equate to lawful terms
there is nothing that makes an agreement lawful or not challengeable in a court of law
light spruce
They didn't just challenge it in court. They deliberately broke it in addition to a lawsuit
foggy widget
lots of ToS's are challenged and many times a complaint has gone all the way up to the supreme court and won
light spruce
that's the part that was stupid
You don't have to deliberately violate the terms of an agreement to bring a challenge to it in court
rich quiver
but this lawsuit is a from of a regulation on the video game market on fees
light spruce
All they needed to do was file that particular suit and play things from there
foggy widget
if you break a ToS, that doesn't mean the ToS is lawful; anything can be challenged and found to be unlawful or unconstitutional. One recent example are ink cartridges where the big printer companies lost a big supreme court battle betting their ToS would hold up, but it didn't. they suffered a pretty big blow considering a vast majority of their income with printers is ink sales
light spruce
Instead, they threw up their middle fingers while saying, "We disagree with the agreement that we made" and when Apple predictably said "No, that's not okay." it turns everything into a stupid circus for everyone who doesn't understand that very basic thing
Right now it doesn't fucking matter if it's lawful
foggy widget
I will say it again: Mr. Sweeney knows what he is doing. He isn't going to put developers, like himself, out to hang dry.
light spruce
It was a binding agreement that they broke
foggy widget
yea, and the injunction will likely stand, and UE will be fine for a while
wintry cliff
Did any news come from the injunction?
foggy widget
i haven't heard or seen anything yet
light spruce
Everyone just says, "Apple's percentage is too much, therefore everything they do is wrong"
foggy widget
next year; the epic phone will be a thing lol, and sweeney will get his own mobile appstore up and running.
rich quiver
tim sweeney have been ignore before on fees on other stores and some argument with others companies
light spruce
And that is not correct.
foggy widget
apple is a monopoly
at least google allows sideloading, despite how questionable it is
light spruce
Again, that assertion isn't relevant.
foggy widget
they are only forcing the hand of congress to break them up, this action is promoting that agenda
you're irrelevant Justin lol
light spruce
So are you.
foggy widget
thank you ๐
wintry cliff
I mean if it's correct or not is not for you to determine. It falls under that "Opinion of the public"
foggy widget
that's right
light spruce
No, it doesn't.
wintry cliff
Unless of course.. you're the arbiter of justice.
๐ฎ !
Shoulda just said that from the beginning man.
foggy widget
I don't even know why this guy is in here. He is in no way a supporter of UE
light spruce
That issue is specifically related to the terms of a developer agreement until such time as a court makes any determination regarding its legality
wintry cliff
would've avoided the whole mess.
Well I mean in reply to "Everyone just says, "Apple's percentage is too much, therefore everything they do is wrong""
and how that's 'incorrect'
in your eyes.
Seems pretty correct in my eyes. They gotta quit with that 30% business.
foggy widget
again, the existence of a ToS or a company for that matter means nothing in the eyes of the law. ToS's are NOT reviewed by any court until challenged. They are put there as a means to protect a company until challenged.
rich quiver
Well consoles is 30%
foggy widget
the argument for consoles is the loss the manufacturer takes for each console sale
light spruce
People are routinely ignoring the part of Epic choosing to violate the terms of an agreement. These are two separate issues. There's the allegation of Apple being a monopoly, anticompetitive, their 30% is too much... all of that. And there's the part where they are terminating Epic's developer account for explicitly violating the terms of that developer agreement.
foggy widget
that is sweeney's stance, and yes, if you look at it that way, 30% isn't necessarily a standard
wintry cliff
Unlike Consoles. You typically have a choice in how you go about getting your games. Console 30% price tag are typically there to offset the sales of their hardware which are sold at a huge loss (2k machines sold for 500 bucks, for example.)
rich quiver
foggy widget
woudl you take your voice somewhere to make it known?
would you break a ToS if you were big enough to try to make a change?
light spruce
They didn't have to.
foggy widget
Do you even know why Sweeney chose to do this?
you didn't answre the question sir
you chose to ignore it
rich quiver
to lower fees
light spruce
The first thing is absolutely something that should be pursued. Breaking that agreement and having an account revoked is absolutely on Epic
foggy widget
again, you ignored the question entirely
why? because you can't answer the question using your stance
there are companies who fight every day for the little guy and break rules
that is how change is done
it is really the only way sometimes change happens, is by breaking rules
light spruce
Would I have broken that agreement deliberately knowing that my access would be terminated and that a lot of developers count on me having that access? No. I wouldn't have. I would have filed my suit making my claims about their market control and left it in the realm of courts.
foggy widget
"knowing that my access would be terminated and that a lot of developers count on me having that access?" i don't think they knew that was gonna happen my friend
unless you have inside knowledge, you don't know that
light spruce
Because breaking that agreement and having my access revoked would do more harm, both to people relying on me, as well as my standing in the argument.
foggy widget
guess what, on top of that, apple didn't move on UE until Epic sued Apple
that is factual
light spruce
So, you're saying that they were unaware of the potential ramifications of their actions in violating an agreement when those ramifications are explicitly laid out in that agreement?
foggy widget
guy
again
apple didn't retaliate against UE UNTIL AFTER Epic sued apple
the order of operation is as follows; Epic gave users an option to pay through Epic or Apple. Apple kicked fortnite off the appstore but left it installed on all existing devices, epic sues apple, apple retaliates against UE
that IS the order
so no, i do not believe they thought this was gonna happen, in all fairness
it is apple being the behemoth it is trying to bully Epic from giving a voice to all devs who feel this is a monopoly and who are subject to the ridiculous terms apple puts forth
period
light spruce
I guess that they could be that incompetent then.
wintry cliff
Lmao
foggy widget
right?
rich quiver
foggy widget
because man, they must've known that when they went to sue apple, that apple would harm developers
just after they said, 'no, we don't retaliate or bully'
that was the point!
light spruce
I really do hope you never find yourself embroiled in a legal argument
foggy widget
unless you're a lawyer, and a damn good one, i don't see the point in you making that statement
i never claimed to know law
and i prefaced many statements already saying this is MY OPINION
wintry cliff
Another situation could be that legal departments also tend to operate autonomous to the company at large. Lots of claims are made every day against large companies. Maybe if Tim Apple gets wind of this, he'll be like "nah stop that."
The battle of the Tim's
foggy widget
everyone is in the dark of wha tis gonna happen: that much is true
wintry cliff
Tim Apple versus Tim Epic
rich quiver
will epic sue namco bandai for creating the planform tax in the 80s
foggy widget
my opinion is this: apple does not want to tarnish its brand with many users who have already been pissed off using fortnite, relationships with devs who see apple as an unfair monopolistic company with unfair terms. they will not cut off access to developer tools for Epic, and they will lower store prices for digital purchases to 20%
rich quiver
since is the roots cause of all of this
wintry cliff
Did Namco Bandai finally let the mini games while loading copyright lapse?
rich quiver
in 2015
wintry cliff
Nice
rich quiver
it ended
foggy widget
have a good day guys! hopefully we get some news soon.
rich quiver
only epic have made a mini game in loading screen
wintry cliff
You too dude
I wanna do it too. Gonna have to figure it out.
Now we're getting into the era of no need for loading anymore.
with all the data streaming.
rich quiver
nobody did nothing after the mini game patent got remove
there still the arrow lock patent by nintendo
lunar barn
Yeah everyone was pissed at bandai namco but then fuck all got done on it
wintry cliff
what is the arrow lock patent?
thin storm
yeah what is a arrow lock patent?
carmine frigate
but damn if u had to write a patent like that for every 50 lines of codes ๐
dafuq ๐
north locust
I have a quick question (hopefully I'm not interupting something). Would anyone happen to know of any other platforms where you can chat with a team, and talk about game development and such? I'm currently in the process of gathering a team for something, and I really don't think that a Discord server will hold up for long. Because sooner or later, things might get pretty disorganized. And I don't want that to happen.
So are there any other alternative platforms out there?
carmine frigate
google sheet ๐
quiet narwhal
website with an internal wiki
light spruce
there are also things like asana and trello
carmine frigate
smoke signals
tulip orbit
whale calls
carmine frigate
man i should make a mobile phone that turns text msgs into smoke signals
pheromones seem to work pretty good aswell
light spruce
yo
tulip orbit
backups are for chumps
light spruce
yeah, that's why version control is helpful. submit and keep checked out before you fuck it up
zinc matrix
bois
im scared ! of Epic ! games..
i hope they will be fine..
btw she looks badas son that gif
though a bit too round head/face
carmine frigate
get guuud ๐
zinc matrix
no you dont you cheeky unity user ๐
NGL... tbh 3 major reasons why am with unity is c#, amount of free tutorials and code online, and export to webgl
light spruce
Man, that's always the red flag right there
If you ever think "I don't see how I could mess this up that bad" you need to stop
yet, somehow...still always winds up being harder than it should be
because you always forget to do something or how you did it
proud pier
Man
I really hope Nvidia isn't that silly with RTX 3000 series pricing
Anywhere from $1500 to $2000
light spruce
it's not like they have any competition
carmine frigate
well 3090 is like 2080ti right?
so its about the same?
high end cards be expensive is nothing new:P
light spruce
controversial statement: Fuck math
tame dawn
xx90 is likely the replacement for the titan series so that's not surprising
All leaks are irrelevant until they release the prices for xx70, xx80
And until AMD play their hand with big navi
quiet narwhal
I plan on getting one if it's true and I just need to come to terms with how much it's going to cost lol
tame dawn
People will just throw their hands up and moan that it's too expensive but miss the point that titan cards aren't really for just playing games unless you're wealthy enough to spend that much on your hobbies
quiet narwhal
they say its faster than the 2080ti and I am ok with that
tame dawn
And the main reason the 20 series was a bit steep was due to as above, no competition really, and bitcoin miners buying out the supply
zinc matrix
Trututuru
light spruce
Well, that's its own question... is it a "Titan replacement" or is it the equivalent of an xx80Ti?
tame dawn
Aren't the Ti cards usually just the best bins, or bins that didn't make the cut for Titan?
light spruce
Because they did some kind of weird shit with the Titan naming at one point so I kinda lost where the hell any of it went
quiet narwhal
generally TI have less memory than Titans right?
titans being for dev work and less gaming
tame dawn
Can't remember if they did for 20 series
tame dawn
Actually yea Titan is higher vram, so not bins
If you want to raytrace I imagine you'll be locked into Nvidia
light spruce
Oh, they did do a Titan RTX
tame dawn
But for a lot of gamers, particularly competitive players who value high framerate, if AMD releases a solid mid level set of cards that'll dip Nvidia's share a lot
light spruce
Okay, the Titan V was a weird one
tame dawn
e.g. I'd have no real interest in raytracing in games I play because I tend to play competitive games like shooters, and raytracing just nukes my framerate, and I value stable 144fps over it looking perfect
but as a dev I'd need to support it in things i made
carmine frigate
AMD consoles wil do raytrace
light spruce
Honestly, unless you're contracting for someone who absolutely, specifically (stupidly) requires RTX support... I wouldn't really worry about it for another ... I don't know. Several years. (assuming we aren't all dead by then)
carmine frigate
still not hyped up for raytrace tho
like mayB if u render movies in unreal for a livin or something
quiet narwhal
DLSS is nice and getting better, its a positive to the new cards
DLSS is nice and getting better, its a positive to the new cards
the tensor cores are a pretty neato feature to be honest
light spruce
I think you have to be at least under a 15% performance hit with noticeable visual fidelity improvements before you're going to see anyone wanting to use it at all... and that's not considering the market penetration you'd need for that
tame dawn
It depends on the game. If I'm playing Tomb Raider, having greater than like 90FPS doesn't really benefit me a tonne, it looks smooth
But if it's CSGO, all the way up to 240hz because of how twitchy it is as a shooter, makes it worthwhile
carmine frigate
havin more than 90 does benefit, even on 60 hrz screen
tame dawn
90fps on a 60hz monitor offers you almost nothing other than problems
light spruce
"it depends on the game"
carmine frigate
it just look smoother
tame dawn
90 on 60hz doesn't make any visual difference, in fact it could be worse due to screen tearing
carmine frigate
i disagree on that
tame dawn
you should lock fps to the refresh rate of your monitor, except for at higher rates e.g. 144 where it's better to lock to about 141 to prevent tearing
as you'll typically have v sync off
carmine frigate
altho the screenshot wouldnt be better
tame dawn
and be using g sync or freesync
it's not a fact of agree/disagree lol, the monitor cannot display about 60 frames per second
light spruce
that's why you'd still at least do fast sync to drop the extra frames... the only major benefit to pushing higher framerates winds up being a reduction in input latency that's going to hit some pretty hard diminishing returns
tame dawn
the only gain you're getting is possibly less visual artifacting between frames but that's likely to be worse if you let it go above 60
light spruce
and directx12 doesn't handle fast sync... so... that's kind of shit on that front anyway
tame dawn
And the importance of framerate does depend on the game lol. I care about 144fps way more on a competitive game than I do on a single player campaign
light spruce
Yeah, that's what I was saying
tame dawn
input lag is lower at high refresh rates even capped at 60hz yes, but it's diminishing returns and it's more likely to result in tearing
light spruce
but you don't have to try and display all of those frames.. because you obviously can't display more frames than the refresh rate
tame dawn
which is why you shouldn't unlock fps to like 200 on a 60hz
carmine frigate
i disagree
light spruce
You physically can't render more frames to the display than its refresh rate
tame dawn
It's not about whether you agree or disagree lol, it's laws of physics????
light spruce
If you don't limit it, you start drawing partially drawn frame buffers which is what gets you tearing
tame dawn
If you're getting the placebo of it feeling smoother at 180fps than at say 75fps on a 60hz monitor then great, but it's a placebo
tame dawn
And as above whilst yes your input latency might be slightly better running high framerates capped at 60hz, a good quality monitor's input latency isn't going to be determined by framerate, it's by how quickly it can process the signal it's receiving
And you have the drawback of being likely to be hit with screen tearing, Fast sync isn't a perfect fix it's a bandaid to reduce how noticeable a problem is
light spruce
input latency isn't just dictated by monitor processing time
carmine frigate
i know the tech behind it, and i dunno what makes me like 200 fps better but it is as it is
light spruce
Evidently, you're trying to argue with the laws of physics
tame dawn
input latency is how quickly the signal travels from the cable to the monitor, and the monitor processing it
light spruce
and that generally doesn't work out well
tame dawn
higher fps doesn't improve that, but what it does do is potentially makes you see the update slightly faster
light spruce
no no no... you still have to consider the software
tame dawn
so it gives the impression of input lag being reduced, but it isn't actually reduced in that way
light spruce
Because you still have a game running in there between all of that
foggy widget
Not to offend, but you guys do know that fps and refresh rate are two independent things that are completely unrelated, correct?
carmine frigate
yea we do
foggy widget
ok cool, cool, cool-cool-cool
carmine frigate
๐
light spruce
they're independent not unrelated
tame dawn
^ What I've been trying to say lol
carmine frigate
a 144 hrz monitor can display 1 fps
foggy widget
that is right, even 0
light spruce
my takeaway is that you really just don't understand any nuance whatsoever
foggy widget
it can display 1000000000000 fps
carmine frigate
no it wil output a frame if its on
foggy widget
but it will ONLY output to the screen, a subset of that number
carmine frigate
i can see the diffrence of 200 fps and 90 fps on a 60 hrz monitor, thats what im sayin
tame dawn
i guess all the professional competitive players were wrong then ๐คท
@zinc matrix
Competitive players don't buy 144hz monitors for 'input lag'...
Input lag is measured in milliseconds, it's how quickly the monitor responds to input. I.E., When you move your mouse cursor, how quickly does the monitor process the signal it receives from the cable
Framerate is FPS. It's how many frames per second the GPU is drawing.
Refresh rate is how many times the monitor can refresh (re-draw the image) every second, measured in Hz
If your GPU is drawing 1000 frames per second but your monitor only refreshes 60 times per second, your GPU is massively overworking
light spruce
Well that's some kind of obsessive weird shit you've got going on
tame dawn
The reason competitive players buy 144hz, 240hz monitors is because being able to see more frames per second means you see the enemy sooner, can react sooner, etc.
If they cared about input lag so much they'd use CRT monitors lmao, which had practically zero input lag
And some obsessive folk still do use them
foggy widget
if you scale down the numbers; your game is outputting 1000fps, but your monitor only refreshes 1 time per second, you will see, at most, 1 fps
carmine frigate
nah 144 is not for seeing others sooner its for general smoothness
tame dawn
๐คฆโโ๏ธ
light spruce
If only CRTs weren't some big heavy bastards
foggy widget
use the scaledown method
tame dawn
owninator, if you run from one side of the room to the other, and I see you at 1FPS, I'm not going to be able to track your movement am I?
But if I see at 140fps I'll be able to see every step you take
foggy widget
if you refresh 2 times per second, you can see an enemy's current movement/placement 100% faster than you would (at most) than a monitor refreshing at 1 time per second
tame dawn
Which means I can point my gun and track aim on you easier
That's why high refresh ("smoothness") matters for competitive players
carmine frigate
yea its not the 1/60th sec u see em faster
foggy widget
you have a better chance of reacting using a higher refresh rate
any moron should see that
carmine frigate
altho on 1 fps a second is too much
tame dawn
no, it is that. Ask any competitive player and they will tell you the same thing - that their aim and reaction times are far less gimped on a 144hz monitor
because their reaction time isn't being limited by how quickly the image is updating on a screen
that's because the frame is drawing slower
foggy widget
input is dependent on how the game is developed
tame dawn
that's not 'input lag' that's the frame refreshing* slower so it looks like it's reacting slower
foggy widget
the time that input is refreshed in the game is dependent on the game. It used to be that UE polled input far faster than the internal Tick loop, now, as i understand it, it runs with Tick
light spruce
Your raw input lag would be the time it takes you to press something and have it be drawn on the screen, assuming zero processing time...meaning you only have to consider the speed of the input device and the speed of the output device
foggy widget
yea, except you're forgetting that little thing called a monitor's refresh rate
carmine frigate
a 4ms delay 144 hrz screen wil usually be the pick for a comp player than a 1ms 60 hrz screen
light spruce
However, your software still has to do something with that input... which means that there's going to be an added duration of time that it spends processing that input before it draws anything to the screen
tame dawn
a 4ms 144hz monitor would be dogshit which is why most of them grey to grey measure 1ms
light spruce
some games are more or less affected by it depending on how exactly they handle input
foggy widget
so that is the part i do not understand Sub; 1/144 is greater than .004, could you explain that part to me?
tame dawn
like I keep saying, the input lag is mostly determined by the response of the monitor, extra frames might make a tiny difference but almost certainly not perceivable when you're operating at fps=hz
alpine fern
what makes you think gsync would be dead
it's absolutely required for a good experience when playing one of those graphics heavy games that could never run at 144hz locked
tame dawn
grey to grey response time is not the same as measured input lag
when monitors state they are '1ms' that's the grey to grey response time
foggy widget
i thought i read a while back GSync was dead b/c Freesync was introduced
tame dawn
not the measured input lag which accounts for everything
alpine fern
gsync hardware is much better than freesync
there's a reason most freesync monitors failed the gsync compatible certification
tame dawn
Input lag is ResponseTime + time it takes to show it with a refresh
foggy widget
is that because Nvidia runs the show there? what was it?
tame dawn
So as above, whilst you're on a 60hz monitor, yes if you play at 90fps you might get a tiny perceivable improvement to input lag
but not enough of one to warranty the nightmare of screen tearing that could start occuring
alpine fern
it's because freesync is just an open standard with no quality requirements
you can claim your monitor supports freesync even if it sucks
tame dawn
G Sync is superior to FreeSync on NVidia cards, but it makes more financial sense to buy G Sync compatible so you're not forced into nvidia
G Sync compatible = FreeSync that Nvidia have released certified drivers for
foggy widget
Anyway, back to my question sub
i still don't understand; when a monitor says it is 144hz, that is frame, correct?
correct?
tame dawn
144hz is how many times it refreshes per second yes
tame dawn
in layman's terms the max framerate you can 'see' on it
foggy widget
i got that, fully. the part i didn't understand was where you explained the 4ms
how can the monitor operate on 4ms, if 1/144 is greater than .004?
tame dawn
Response time in milliseconds is how quickly the monitor processes the draw signal
quiet narwhal
I think the issue here is just because it refreshes at say 144 times per second it doesnt mean the monitor is completely wiped between frames
tame dawn
it's measured using greyscale when manufacturer's advertise
quiet narwhal
which is the actual gray to gray and such refresh time
foggy widget
i see
tame dawn
Input lag is ResponseTime + time it took to draw the next frame and display that change
foggy widget
Wadstein in the HOUSE!!!!!
tame dawn
Which is why websites like Rtings have Response time, and then Measured Response time
foggy widget
BIG SHOUTOUT TO @quiet narwhal and @hollow zephyr
tame dawn
so my monitor for example is 1ms grey to grey response time
quiet narwhal
yeah monitor refresh rate is not always the same as its response time which is super weird
tame dawn
but when you measure it with a calibrator
it takes 4.3ms to respond to me moving the mouse
foggy widget
right, you wouldn't want your response time to be slower than refresh rate
quiet narwhal
wouldnt and oh boy, cheap monitors....
light spruce
Well that's why people have said for a very long time that manufacturer response claims were bullshit
quiet narwhal
120hz , 40ms grey to grey ftw
tame dawn
CRT monitors IIRC had extremely low latency which is why hardcore/oldschool players of Quake, etc. still play them on CRT
light spruce
because it's a "based on what, exactly?" kind of thing
carmine frigate
cheap is relative tho ๐
tame dawn
It's not bullshit lol, they state that it's grey to grey in the full specs
quiet narwhal
laptops are notoriously bad for high G2G times on "gaming" panels
tame dawn
It's the optimal measurement
Which is why third party reviewers list the measured time, because measured time can differ slightly per unit
as every piece of silicon is different
foggy widget
sub, let me ask you this
tame dawn
not by much, but by tiny amounts
foggy widget
i am no monitor expert; how would you rate my monitors: HP VH240a?
tame dawn
and every panel is slightly different, which is why even though you can have two of the same monitors, the colours can be slightly off on one
quiet narwhal
Response time
5 ms GtG 250 nits
tame dawn
it's just a 1080p office monitor lol
quiet narwhal
so not bad, but daaaark
light spruce
it wasn't always specified as "grey to grey" and the question I would ask is "which grey levels are we measuring?"
tame dawn
IPS doesn't mean good
foggy widget
yes, it is about image quality
quiet narwhal
178 degrees horizontal so yeah it is probably IPS
foggy widget
which, it seemed at the time i purchased, this monitor was a fairly great value
tame dawn
IPS is certainly preferable to TN and VA for colour work
quiet narwhal
there is nothing bad about that monitor its just 250 nits is not very bright
foggy widget
I couldn't afford something over 200 bucks ๐ฆ
tame dawn
IPS is the type of panel being used
light spruce
I'd definitely rather set myself on fire than be stuck with a bunch of TN panels
quiet narwhal
its far from horrible
foggy widget
right, prevalent in apple hardwaqre
broken sigil
Professional players play on framerate way higher than their monitor's refresh rate because of input lag, the higher the framerate = smaller frame time = less time between game cycles = less time between input updates
Saw someone mentioning something about professional players and framerate
tame dawn
IPS panels tend to display nicer colours
TN panels tend to look ugly and are awful from an angle, but they are cheap to build, and have very high response times and refresh rates for their price point
VA tends to have poor response times, but excellent contrast ratio
quiet narwhal
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-Zephyrus-G14-Ryzen-9-GeForce-RTX-2060-Max-Q-Laptop-Review-Kicking-Core-i9-to-the-Curb.457817.0.html this is an example of a 120hz panel with HORRIBLE refresh times (check out that section)
tame dawn
So hardcore gamers, as in, the people who want to play at 240hz 1080p csgo, sometimes buy TN because it's cheap
Most gamers buy IPS because they look pretty
People who just wanna watch films/consume media will enjoy VA because of the excellent contrast (super deep black values)
quiet narwhal
the end result is 120hz refresh rate for smoother feel but you get some "smearing" on edges during fast motion as the monitor doesnt keep up
foggy widget
very informative, thank you @quiet narwhal and @tame dawn
tame dawn
yes, that panel on that laptop is a bit shit
a lot of gaming laptops aren't exactly being marketed to people who want value for money remember
quiet narwhal
yep its a shame, the machine is fantastic and for productivity its fine but ugh... for gaming... ๐ฆ
light spruce
"overdrive"
tame dawn
and a lot of users can't notice the difference anyway, people forget that gamers develop their eyesight/vision skills to be able to perceive these differences
if you ask an 80yr old grandparent to tell you the difference, theres a good chance they wont be able to
quiet narwhal
ugh overdrive... yay for more smearing
tame dawn
but if you ask a 25yr old who has played counter strike, quake, etc. then they'll tell the difference
light spruce
It's not just that; some people inherently have faster visual processing
quiet narwhal
its why proper gaming monitors are so freaking expensive
carmine frigate
if a TL light bar is not functioning proper it will drive me crazy B4 any1 else notices
tame dawn
A rule of the thumb is that if you spend around the same amount on your monitor as you do your GPU, you're probably buying something appropriate
quiet narwhal
its why PWM flickering is a thing as well, most people dont notice it but man it's annoying
light spruce
it was not fun being able to definitely see flicker below 100Hz CRTs.
tame dawn
e.g. my LG 27GL850 cost ยฃ450, and my GTX 1080 at launch was about ยฃ500
quiet narwhal
its why you have $10 chairs and $1500 chairs. If you spend a billion hours using something it's worth it to spend the money. applies to all parts
carmine frigate
yea take good care of ur ass and eyes
quiet narwhal
I hate spending real money on PC parts but it's always worth it in the end
tame dawn
You can use a similar analogy for buying a pair of shoes. You can pay ยฃ20 every 3 months and buy a new pair, or you can spend ยฃ80 for a pair that will last two years
(It's an example of how people in bad/difficult financial circumstances struggle to escape those circumstances with spending)
light spruce
Or you can be me and I'd spend 30 quid and glue and tape the fuckers together for six
quiet narwhal
yep its a crappy circle but if you can get out of it or realize a bit more upfront is worth more in the end it's a good thing to try and do
light spruce
the diminishing returns thing is a real issue
carmine frigate
yea im not gunna drop 1600 on nvidia launch day
light spruce
And it's hard to know where that .... value line is... for lack of a better term
quiet narwhal
its why i have had my desk for the last 9 years and hope to never replace it. the keyboard tray and side arms where the mouse go are at the same resting height as my natural sitting posture. Nothing is out of place and it's soooo comfy even after hours
carmine frigate
see what amd got to offer first
lol my desk is cast iron, it wil survive a nuke attack
quiet narwhal
also if you look at chairs, look at ones with butt hammocks lol. The mesh netting below the rear without anything below it (padding or base)
light spruce
Because expensive things get made that absolutely aren't worth the money in terms of longevity, just like there are cheaper things that punch above their weight class
I at least solve the desk problem by building my own
zinc matrix
money rules
tfw you have infinite dollars and you have nothing to worry about
but yea price-performance is what we gotta care bout
quiet narwhal
even with infinite money I can't get an AMD laptop with a 4800h and a 2070 or 2080 gpu lol
light spruce
Infinite dollars would be how to properly write Superman. Unlimited ability but limited time
zinc matrix
oh yeah that too
carmine frigate
if u make a game and wunna sell it , u also have to worry about what others can afford :p
zinc matrix
unless you can buy more life
carmine frigate
prolly not a 2000$ vid card
light spruce
If I had unlimited money... I'd be looking at the problem of "Who do I get to and how do I do it?"
carmine frigate
u super optimized game can still require a 3090ti
zinc matrix
true that
carmine frigate
small target audience tho
zinc matrix
just like how Crysis wasn't so suitable for the boomer tech existed way back then
carmine frigate
yea i cant really say how high crysis stands in the optimized scale tho
better than a lot of console ports thats for sure
light spruce
My dad has one of them. To me, the things are just an exercise in "exactly how saturated with sweat would you like your shirt?"
zinc matrix
yeah
console ports be like
moving from 2013~2014 tech to modern PC tech for glitches and lags
light spruce
I have to have a mesh back on my chair to not be totally miserable
carmine frigate
i was able to play it on mid lvl hardware on release, just not full settings
it had a lot of tesselation
that u could put on x12 or something
zinc matrix
i never had big probs with tessellation
light spruce
I played it on a MacBook Pro under Windows
zinc matrix
ngl MacBooks are kinda "not so high end"
some ppl say MacBooks are good for workstation purpose but not really
light spruce
there's a story behind how I wound up with it. It wasn't because I went out and bought one
But that was like...2008?
zinc matrix
is it still working
light spruce
No idea; I eventually gave it away
carmine frigate
the newer the hardware the more likely it is to die on you ๐
computer parts used to be made to last
light spruce
did just remind me that I needed to tighten up the trackpad screw on my shitty notebook
carmine frigate
bet my 8mb ram sticks would still work if i didnt toss em ๐
light spruce
they also used to be less complicated
zinc matrix
i'm pretty sure most workstations can last long and some really high end gaming pcs
light spruce
god, I can't wait until nothing uses phillips screws anymore
foggy widget
why
there's absolutely nothing wrong with phillips head screws
actually there's nothing wrong with any type of screw head, its about using the right screwdriver for the job, and the right technique
if you're stripping screw heads, it has nothing to do with anything but the user with the screwdriver in their hand
broken sigil
or with the shitty materials used for the screw
foggy widget
not to argue, but i would argue that
foggy widget
again, there are different sized phillips head screwdrivers for the right sized philips head screw
you don't just take any driver to any screw
though, i will agree that quality materials provide the slack needed when yea, there isn't a good fit with any hardware you have
light spruce
they're designed specifically to cam out instead of letting you overtorque them, which means that if it ever binds and is a small, lightweight screw, it's going to strip. There's a reason torque is used.
carmine frigate
i use a taccer a lot i know my drillheads ๐
light spruce
Oh, is he being a dick? Because I put him on ignore and moved on with my life instead of doing weird shit like tallying up his entire post history.
carmine frigate
ahh but on a weird angle u cant put ur weight on it
50m above ground drillin something above ur head ur shit better be good
median wraith
light spruce
someone remind me later that I need to update my router and reboot queenbreaker
re: 2020, I had a feeling that something was coming ...but I wasn't expecting this
well, that's only a mildly terrifying video
though I'll be really impressed if they manage to do something more meaningful with it than just a game where you shoot people as a high-speed, low-drag operator
rigid shoal
Anyone else hate EVERYTHING related to routers/modems/home-networks?
light spruce
ProTip: consumer-grade stuff is fucking garbage
I use OPNsense in a VM for my routing, a standalone switch, and my wireless access points are Ubiquity UniFis
rigid shoal
Why can't I just plug it in without having to do weird, complex shit?
Apple pls? (i was not thinking about the epic vs apple thing, oops)
light spruce
The only answer I have for you is "buttholes"
I do all that crazy shit because I can and I was tired of dealing with the dumb garbage
Like... "oh.. we have terrible socket timeouts, so I guess you should reboot your router/switch combo so traffic works again because we just left all the shit open and you ran out of available ports for connections"
it's kinda one of those things like car infotainment systems... where they're just terrible
light spruce
hashtag grats
hashtag grits?
So, it's approximately 2047 right now. I woke up sometime before 0800. I feel like it's been a good 20-something hours. Am I the only one having this problem as of late?
broken sigil
eventually
dim ruin
better yet, buy Adobe, and just shelf it for a few years. Let 'em taste their own medicine lol
thats far fetched, I know, but it'd be funny
light spruce
I will never not hate John Nack
thorny dock
when your not quick enough ๐ฆ
light spruce
what the fuck
thorny dock
I'm doing a test import on a CAD file in a different engine version and forgot to disable it, still waiting..
my first plugin on the marketplace will auto disable auto save on every new engine version so you don't ever forget lol
light spruce
as I've mentioned before... I thoroughly enjoy the autosave shitting up my naming of files... functions ... variables
and no one reminded me, but I remembered.... update router, reboot vm host
rigid shoal
You didn't say when to remind you. ๐
Also, Adobe is a $220B company. That's quite a lot bigger than I'd thought.
light spruce
opnsense is so goddamned slow to update
! A critical upgrade is in progress. !
! Please do not turn off the system. !
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GOODBYE FOREVER
plucky pagoda
Thinking about trading 3 * 24" monitors for a single 43" to 50". anyone else done that?
mossy nexus
I have 2 40+ inch TVs Does that count?
foggy path
seems like it could work assuming you get a similar amount of pixel space, or at least enough
although you might want to have some kind of a program to have to deal with placing windows a bit less since you couldn't just fullscreen something like you could with separate monitors
lucid walrus
windows is pretty good at splitting the screen these days... try dragging an application window to the screen edges and you'll see
plucky pagoda
There's an app that lets you divide it up. 43" is just over what 3 24" have in space
ancient hornet
already?
zinc matrix
==D
winter zealot
we will see how it turns out
ancient hornet
well now they have proof they got deprived of lower prices ๐
since Fortnites is out ๐
winter zealot
what do you mean they got deprived of lower prices ?
ancient hornet
ruled that consumers can't sue for antitrust violations over passed-on charges.
then the Supreme Court overtuned that rulling last year
well it was a judge that ruled against iPhone users saying they couldn't prove they got deprived of lower prices
winter zealot
overtuned you mean amplified ?
ancient hornet
nah basically the judge said "you cannot sue for that" then the Supreme Court said "yes they can"
so the case went back on I guess
winter zealot
ok so you think things can turn out in favor of Epic in this case ?
ancient hornet
The plaintiffs asked for a new judge to be assigned to the case last year, arguing that Rogers was "too hostile" to their position. Their request was rejected.
I don't know, this doesn't look like it makes things easier
winter zealot
yes I know, but you said " ruled that consumers can't sue for antitrust violations over passed-on charges.
then the Supreme Court overtuned that rulling last year "
that's why I was asking, but yeah lets wait and see
ancient hornet
this could very well end up in the Supreme Court again
winter zealot
also, saying that the 30% fee is passed to the consumers is ridiculous because publishers have to set affordable prices for the game
30% isn't added to the price of the product and paid for by the consumer
30% is removed to the price of a product charged the same everywhere else, and publishers have to account for that
zinc matrix
guys
so a judge having previously been in favor of apple has been assigned to the case
is that objective
or did someone pull the stringz
oh no
ancient hornet
who knows?
could be
it's also a judge that doesn't grant injunctions much if at all it seems
zinc matrix
I dont know what is injuction!
ancient hornet
they were asking the judge to force Apple to return them to the store/dev accounts while the lawsuit is in progress
that's an injunction
ancient hornet
Epic itself is kicked making it theoricaly impossible for them to update the Unreal Engine or Fortnite
tulip orbit
just for ios
zinc matrix
i never had apple product
tulip orbit
only one that I ever really used was the ipod, just for listening to tunes.
i've got a handmedown ipad from my parents, but its just used for the apple messaging with the family
winter zealot
honestly, IOS has a lot of problems, the 30% and all that
but EGS is much worse than IOS, it's a walled garden for the privileged 1% of developers allowed on it
I wish that people would talk about this issue more
no one has been talking about apple using child labor to make their computers as well...
if Epic loosing the lawsuit means no epic game store walled garden on mobile then I'm fine with Epic loosing
tulip orbit
I have no plans to ever develop for ios, so I'm fine either way so long as it doesnt impact the rest of ue4, which it undoubtedly will.
winter zealot
no one would use UE4 to develop on mobile unless blizzard wanting to make diablo on mobile ๐
I mean, I would gladly use it but Epic did everything they can to prevent that
tulip orbit
blizzard would use their own engine tho
winter zealot
yeah, some korean companies are using UE4 for their mobile games but blizzard always use prop tools
ancient hornet
it also makes it impossible for Epic to update the Mac version of the EGS ๐
mostly
would Rocket League on iOS be blocked too?
Epic bought them no?
winter zealot
you mean they will not be able to have EGS be embedded in the latest version of electron ? for the additional 10 seconds latency everytime you click on an image in the EGS app ? ๐ฎ
ancient hornet
I mean they won't be able to notarize any new EGS client patch
not to mention you kinda need the OSX dev tools to compile apps for OSX which Epic supposedly will be cut off from too
winter zealot
yup, good job Epic
fluid bloom
zinc matrix
does unconnected BP show in c++ code?
like couple of functions without pins connected
Thanks
Really appreciate your knowledge
cold umbra
Hearthstone (Blizzard) uses Unity
I think even big companies use open tools when they do not have any specific needs
gilded lichen
What do you think about the future of UE? Will it sink?
lucid walrus
I'm only two years into UE and Unity made Bolt free now, so I guess I can switch back if the worst case scenario plays out...
My question however, is why do this now under the current disfunctional government, instead of possibly waiting until after the election?
(Unless Epic thinks that Biden will actually lose so it won't make a difference...)
foggy path
What difference would that even make for the lawsuit?
quiet narwhal
Unreal Engine has been around for quite a while so unless the aliens destroy us anytime soon I wouldn't see a reason for it to stop being around
foggy path
Yeah
In terms of skills, it's pretty much irrelevant as well imo
If you know how to make games in UE, you'll know how to make games using some other platform too. It's the same thing under a different paint job pretty much :D
(obviously there's differences in features etc. but those are generally still going to be built around similar general principles)
gilded lichen
What if Epic loses and UE will be removed from Apple and Google stores? Will this destroy Epic?
ancient hornet
I doubt Google would go that far as Apple did
and if things start lasting, I have no doubt some "3rd party" will take over the job of porting UE4 games to iOS for you
gilded lichen
I don't think that it was s bad move, everything was planned.
quiet narwhal
UNREAL ENGINE IS NOT ON THE APPLE AND GOOGLE STORES
why does everyone keep thinking this
the gorram news headlines keep saying that and it is just flat out wrong
carmine frigate
i never tried to run unreal on a mac or phone so i dunno ๐
gilded lichen
I thought that Apple and Google banned all that connected to UE
quiet narwhal
?'
do you have something that shows they actually did that?
I mean just going to the app store and looking for epic products show they did not https://apps.apple.com/us/developer/epic-games/id387428403
broken sigil
Apple announced they will be blocking Epic's dev accounts
quiet narwhal
cool, how does that stop Unreal Engine from working on the app store again?
broken sigil
well UE4 will have to drop IOS and Mac support most likely, how are you gonna maintain support for it if you don't have access to it?
quiet narwhal
you dont need a dev account to do ios/macos work
you need it to publish to the stores and to sign your apps
technically if they want to ban a company account from downloading the free software I guess they could be like "hey we said no one at epic could use our free software and they are going around what we said"
and as for now Unreal Engine works with ios/macos, even if the epic dev accounts get "banned" it doesnt stop the engine from working or publishing. Yes at some point there might be stuff that stops it on apples side (usually xcode updates) but for now there is no problem
gilded lichen
Is it even legal to ban a company for contrived reasons?
quiet narwhal
doesnt have to be legal to do it, that is what lawsuits are for
lucid walrus
@quiet narwhal are you suggesting that Epic will find a way to circumvent their revoking of dev licenses on the Apple platforms?
(if they lose, that is)
quiet narwhal
I doubt it but I dont know if they would need to
foggy path
you don't need a license to make your program compile on MacOS
lucid walrus
that "some point" is next year when Apple switches to Arm!
quiet narwhal
like for example say they have i dunno 20 devs working on ios/macos stuff in the engine, are they all signed into one dev account for their xcode?
lucid walrus
no, but I bet all their dev accounts have @mellow marlingames.com or @unrealengine.com in them
quiet narwhal
meh maybe
I know I do contract work and use my personal accounts for the actual work and use company accounts when publishing
none of us really know but from a realistic perspective it all seems like hand waving and posturing
lucid walrus
then again, if Unreal Engine 5 comes out fully arm mac compatible and the lawsuit still haven't been resolved, would that be evidence enough for Apple to retaliate further against Epic?
quiet narwhal
like if apple tells me "fuck off, we are banning your dev account" nothing legally stops me from making a new one and continuing on
lucid walrus
that's a 2 trillion dollar hand that waves... that's quite a slap in anyone's face ๐
foggy path
isn't UE already arm compatible, there's a Linux ARM package option in the menu iirc
quiet narwhal
yep losing the actual Epic Games account is a big thing for sure, same with the Unreal Engine account that the live link stuff is on
but actually going "ha ha we banned you, you can't do anything now" is expecting way too much
lucid walrus
@foggy path yeah, but arm mac devkits went out roughly a month ago, I think... and you have to give them back even if you don't get a suspended dev license
quiet narwhal
Epic started this, It's not a random thought they know what they are doing lol
gilded lichen
I think that apple will lose in the end. I mean not the law suit - this is not obvious, but the company.
quiet narwhal
now if the idea is good or bad is up for debate but it's happening and we just have to watch. Epic is a company, I doubt they would be riding their future on this one thing.
lucid walrus
maybe it's Tim's plan to drive Epic valuation into the ground, so he can buy the company back from Tencent? ๐
quiet narwhal
they have stakeholders, they have clients they are liable to so someone somewhere definitely weighed the risks
Tencent doesnt own it tho, they have a stake for sure but it's not ran by them. I know people want to think its some chinese overlord company but it's not
Tencent invests in a ton of shit
lucid walrus
yeah, like 40% of epic ๐
rich quiver
lucid walrus
and Sony got like 5% for the same amount, or if it was more than Tencent paid before fortnite
quiet narwhal
yep I mentioned that
foggy path
@lucid walrus I'm not sure why an arm mac would be much different as a compilation target vs arm linux tbh
MacOS is basically a BSD variant
lucid walrus
@foggy path because of apple's proprietary integrated gpu?
quiet narwhal
its just going to be a chip like in an iphone/ipad
foggy path
which supports commonly used graphics APIs I'd imagine
quiet narwhal
run metal, have an sdk and api
foggy path
yeah
ancient hornet
Epic isn't publicly traded so valuation doesn't change like that
lucid walrus
@foggy path no, it only supports metal, and who knows if there's a new version of it for arm macs
ancient hornet
also UE4 exists on Switch and Switch is an ARM right? so an ARM port already exists
foggy path
it would be the dumbest decision ever for them to make a new GPU completely incompatible with what they had in the past :P
ancient hornet
on top of the iOS/Android ports
quiet narwhal
the new stuff will also have a fallback mode for macos apps, its not just pure arm
the same thing happened when they went from powerpc to x86, its nothing new
its just some big ol apple reinventing the wheel thing
lucid walrus
yeah, well I can't run my universal binary of ut2k4 anymore ๐
quiet narwhal
stuff will happen, no one knows what or when, but stuff will happen. If someone is super concerned about this then going to an in house engine would be an option but I dunno seems far fetched to think we need to move away from UE4 for any reason but UE5 lol
ancient hornet
let's be honest
nobody needs UE5 for iOS apps for a moment ๐
any UE5 users are mostly looking at PC/Console apps I bet
broken sigil
Epic should drop mobile support entirely
fluid bloom
eh I don't know
wintry cliff
nah man. my first game released was on android.
fluid bloom
mobile game dev is a gateway drug to "real" game dev
wintry cliff
I think it's a good way to get accustomed to releasing something. I had to learn alot about optimization, hardware targeting/support, and how to support different OS versions.
lucid walrus
hmm... didn't think about that... is fortnite mobile revenue so low that it perhaps doesn't matter to them?
wintry cliff
google play dashboard was also fun to learn/awesome to witness in action.
wintry cliff
lmao
ancient hornet
they certainly got the raw cash to do it
fluid bloom
I bet tencent swoops in and buys it
rich quiver
and release a game
wintry cliff
Tencent for sure.
ancient hornet
unlikely they flat out buy it
rich quiver
since is apple they have to release something
ancient hornet
probably too expensive for anyone except Apple
fluid bloom
unity?
quiet narwhal
@lucid walrus I doubt it but it shows that Epic is willing to put their money on the line to get this done
rich quiver
is the second most use engine ever
ancient hornet
if Unity isn't valued close to Epic I'd be surprised
wintry cliff
I wouldn't be surprised if it's the first most used engine in a lot of places.
wintry cliff
Unity was here before UE was free.
lucid walrus
@ancient hornet are you kidding? epic's value comes 90% from fortnite
ancient hornet
I said "close" ๐
fluid bloom
Unity Technologies raised about $400 million in investor funding from Silver Lake Partners in 2017. At the time, Bloomberg estimated it was worth about $2.6 billion.
ancient hornet
and I don't think Epic's value is 90% from Fortnite
fluid bloom
not that expensive
rich quiver
@lucid walrus technically from other
ancient hornet
$2.6B is close to Epic
lucid walrus
@ancient hornet look at how much tencent bought 40% of epic for before fortnite, and then look at how much sony bought 5% of epic for after fortnite
ancient hornet
buying 51% of Unity would be putting $1.3B on the table
not many companies have the cash to spare for that I guess
rich quiver
Unreal Engine is still there main source of income
ancient hornet
well you cannot say for sure that the valuation is only for Fortnite
lucid walrus
right but ipo valuations can be all sorts of blue sky, pie in the sky, happy rainbow dreams
ancient hornet
when Tencent entered Epic, it basically "unlocked" potential in China for them
they also started the "UE4 for 5%" plan
etc...
UE4 usage itself is on the rise at the same time
lucid walrus
it's fortniite ๐
fluid bloom
@lucid walrus the valuations have to be somewhat correct
rich quiver
Unreal Engine was 40 dollars a month before going free
rich quiver
and UE3 high engine fee
fluid bloom
wasn't it 20 USD or so?
rich quiver
@fluid bloom yup 20
quiet narwhal
$19 if you want to be exact but only programmers would be that anal
lol I still have 9.01 in credit on my original epic account for when they gave us all $30 when they went free
I only have one purchase on it as well, Allar's generic shooter pack
rich quiver
UDK 25% engine fee to UE4 5% engine fee
carmine frigate
only looked at ALS a bit, it does some cool stuff but its setup kinda odd
foggy path
ugh why are all markov text generator C++ implementations broken..
you would think if someone chose to write that in C++ out of all available options they would know what they are doing
:D
hardy yacht
looks fine to me
broken sigil
nah it's a feature
fathom wadi
Satan's shoemaker approves
deep moat
Ship it. (hehe. Would have honestly preferred those busted bones to the leg breaks in orginal Dayz.)
light spruce
I can definitely see some use cases for that broken implementation
because it's horrifying
slender sentinel
Call it Monstrous Horror Locomotion and you have yourself a product. ยซย Great for games like Dead Space!ย ยป
north torrent
So apparently almost none of the characters in this TV show have names...
carmine frigate
just call em all Mฤo
when u name ur characters stuff just gets serious real fast
than they need a personality also
north torrent
That's what I do with all the stray cats I find.
carmine frigate
are you sure you aint just renaming other peoples cats?
north torrent
Cats never really belong to anyone.
zinc matrix
so all i want to do is play battlefield 4 but i suck at it. i struggle to stay alive regardless of how well my team does. I probably only do well in tdm but even that i suck at sometimes.
i should go back to cod but i'm feeling bored of it, suck at warzone and ground war on it and the game install is too fucking big
plus i'm slightly reminded of personal issues with it
light spruce
assault, SCAR-H, don't just lay into the full auto, and don't run around in the open
zinc matrix
i wish to avoid assault.
and big maps with vehicles are the bane of my existence since i struggle to know what to do
and i just get bored since i die a lot and idk what the fuck i should do. i should work as a team but i'd rather play by myself
playing online just to feel a bit less lonely even though i don't want to communicate with them
light spruce
playing by yourself means getting really good at sniping with an ACOG
zinc matrix
dmr, bolt action or both?
light spruce
bolt, because if you're on your own, you need to hit hard
north torrent
Have you tried Stardew Valley?
zinc matrix
idk if the game is my taste, i'm sorry. i am heavily gravitating towards shooters (except battle royale shooters)
plus even then i won't pick any old shooter
since i'm a lone wolf with personal issues who doesn't want to play with bots
carmine frigate
yea need to humiliate those pesky humans
i live off the tears of my enemies
the blood of my victims
bots dont give that
north torrent
That sounds violent.
zinc matrix
no i just want to feel like i'm good at something
north torrent
It isn't nice to hurt people.
carmine frigate
i might have sociopatic tendencies
zinc matrix
idk but i just prefer shooting games now
light spruce
sociopathy and psychopathy aren't the same thing, but .. whatever
carmine frigate
well whatever as long as they submerge in their own salt
yes mr FBI officer, that guy right there, yea the crab with the udders
zinc matrix
i seem to do better with automatic rifles i guess
although hanging back would save me
north torrent
In my opinion if the effective strategy for a game is the boring strategy, then the design isn't great...
That's also why I suck at Total War... I do what is fun, not what works best.
zinc matrix
boring strategy?
i wish to play by myself since i prefer it, and i prefer to avoid communicating with anyone, because:
- they can be assholes
- I can be more annoying than them and I personally shouldn't be in a close relationship with anyone
flawed but without mental health support i could end up fucking people up without me realizing it
light spruce
I stopped having people to play multiplayer with; I stopped playing multiplayer games
Lately, I stare at my desktop wallpaper a lot
zinc matrix
i just need something to do to stop me ranting
problem is all i'm in the mood for is to play games
light spruce
increase ethanol intake
zinc matrix
played rust, refunded it, not for me
carmine frigate
i usually just play with some irl friends of mine
i rarely boot something up myself
got half life alyx since release but only played 10 min so far
opens mixer, yay another way to rotate a camera in a 3d viewport ๐
zinc matrix
idk if i should go create a game. not feeling inspired and as much as i love ue4 i may also prefer another engine for licencing reasons, even if i'm never going to release a game commercially
i should likely get a new laptop and sell this one so i'm not so damn hooked on games (most of which run on windows)
can't uninstall windows on this gaming laptop or else how the fuck would i be able to configure shit like the fan speeds and everything else?
light spruce
time to update my vm template so I can spin up another instance for fucking perforce. That part should be fun too
carmine frigate
bein artistic in some form makes you feel better when u shut down the pc, just keep that in mind
zinc matrix
what do you mean?
carmine frigate
creation takes the same effort as gamin but makes you feel better in the end
zinc matrix
it's way too high risk and high reward especially if you're someone used to first person shooters. opposite could be true if you're someone used to like minecraft though
idk if i should go and reinstall ue4. got so many ideas, idk how i feel about actually creating a game. i kind of want to use c++ too but i'm just pissed about not knowing enough about good practices - it'll only be slightly better than blueprints.
i've just grown to like ue4 after developing with it in uni
desert copper
@zinc matrix ๐
@zinc matrix I'm learning the entire thing from scratch with no prior programming knowledge but it's just something I've always wanted to do, it could take me 10 years, I don't care.
light spruce
personally, I'd probably shoot for a goal a bit shorter than ten years
north torrent
I don't like programming.
I used to think I was incapable of feeling hate.
I just don't understand why everyone is always talking about programming like it is some sort of big deal.
Not in 2020.
broken sigil
well without programmers you wouldn't have 3d modelling apps or game engines
everything you use today is thanks to programmers
light spruce
sorcery, obviously
at least half the blueprint problems people drag in are because they don't know anything about programming
It looks like there aren't any great matches for your search
Tip: Try using words that might appear on the page youโre looking for. For example, "cake recipes" instead of "how to make a cake."
Apparently, if you want to know what record size you should be using in ZFS for Perforce, the answer is search for "cake recipes"
rich quiver
foggy widget
new battletoads is a huge letdown IMO, coming from someone who played the originals back in the day
desert copper
why would you want 50 meters of velcro? ๐ค
tulip orbit
time to develop a new kink
north torrent
I wanted half a meter of velcro to hold computer cables...
I just misread the Chinese and ended up with 50 meters instead of 50 centimeters...
Surprising how cheap this stuff is...
desert copper
with enough velcro...
north torrent
They just sell this stuff in bulk for crazy cheap I guess, that's China for you.
desert copper
can you hang from a tree branch?
north torrent
Well, now I know what my students next art project is going to use.
desert copper
because i wanna know
north torrent
I might hurt myself if I climbed a tree... I'm old...
desert copper
how much did you say the velcro was?
north torrent
I will have one of my students try.
See how long it takes me to get fired for hanging my students from trees with velcro...
About $6 when converted to usd.
desert copper
thats a lot of velcro indeed
well
I guess I will just have to see for myself
for $6 dollars
why wouldnt i
north torrent
Are you in China?
I can send you the Tao Bao link.
If not, it might cost more to get Chinese velcro shipped to you.
light spruce
sir, that is "hook and loop"
oak bay
If I want to post a link to a article about my new game, what section would it go in?
north torrent
I understand the legal difference between hook/loop and velcro. But if I were to say that in conversation nobody would know what I am talking about.
Vocabulary has failed us again.
errant plover
random generic Discord question. I've found some 3rd party apps that can pull discord chat history, I'd like to do something similar and pull history for much of what I see discussed here. Anyone have any recommendations/preferences/tips? Has anyone done something similar? I'd love to be able to text search through these dialogs in the future
light spruce
HOOK AND LOOP. VACUUM BOTTLE. PTFE
north torrent
You want to text search through my Communist propaganda?
light spruce
FACIAL TISSUE
north torrent
Generally we just use the term 'tissue'.
zinc matrix
hey guys
light spruce
not without a bot
zinc matrix
i just want to say that fuck CASTING in general in unreal 4
or is it c++ fault i dont care
have a nice day
north torrent
Hook and loop however will never catch on in English vocabulary because it doesn't make sense... It doesn't look like a hook or a loop... If I wanted to use a hook to attach my fabric I would use a hook... But I want to use fabric to attack my fabric...
light spruce
there might be something out there like better discord (does that even still exist?) that can inject stuff because this is just an electron app
that said, it's technically against the TOS to do
Have you not ever looked at it relatively close?
north torrent
Have you ever looked at Velcro relatively close?
light spruce
that's what I'm asking you
north torrent
After 5 shots of vodka?
light spruce
the loop part is can be less loopy and more of a mess of shit sometimes... but the hook side is pretty clearly a hook
and I don't drink vodka
bad times
north torrent
I get that velcro has super small hooks and loops, but that doesn't make it a practical vocabulary word to use when there are already fasteners called hooks.
Don't put velcro on my cat...
Capitalism.
light spruce
Yes
That might have been a recent change
that means that if I actually used reactions, I'd know who has me blocked. CRAZY TIMES (I don't care)
rugged oriole
This is one... interesting community..?
rugged oriole
Fair
light spruce
Commander Shepard's favorite balls on the citadel
light spruce
C:\DICKFART\
thorny dock
So what you do is make a PR request on the git UE4, try to get an asset into the main engine build of any kind, and then your directory will forever be cemented into the engine for generations to come. Please, for the greater good... do this for us all....
thorny dock
Q: is actually a really common drive letter for absolutely nothing
The only people I know who uses a Q: drive is Q:\Anon
rich quiver
light spruce
I'm going to make the Q drive great again by renaming my zfs pools
rich quiver
and tournament that have basically giveaways for entering alone
tulip orbit
I knew it was quiet around here!
dim ruin
anyone else currently balls deep in creating new substance materials?
The substance discord for Alchemist blows. Its a ghost town.
light spruce
basically acted like an asshole, lost his shit, and left
light spruce
You got bamboozled
wet smelt
i think epic games absolutely lost their marbles
you fr cant sue a storefront for breaking said storefront's rules, and you also cant sue said storefront for taking action
*sigh
calling apple a monopolistic when epic games themselves fr forces ppl to play on EGS because of exclusive rights
honest sapphire
awww yeah
The game is slowly putting itself together
got me a robot mode system now
light spruce
nothing but splatcats
thin storm
I think they stopped the lawsuit because people ask the same question everyday.
light spruce
ContigencyPlan VM is up. Network storage on ZFS for Perforce files. Perforce is actually fucking working. Depots. Streams. ZFS snapshots.
and it started raining, so now I can go find out what doggo is hiding under and go the fuck to bed
zinc matrix
Kekeke Justino
wild sail
What's a good laptop for developing in windows as of 2020?
agile egret
Man is it just me or is this discord slowly getting quieter as the months fly by?
You'd think with this work from home, more people would be on here...
foggy path
I've been here for a while and I haven't noticed
agile egret
I've been here three or so years
foggy path
Most people have better things to do than talk on random discord servers so working from home has nothing to do with it lol
agile egret
This might be #lounge, but this isn't random. Talking about unreal
Maybe the users are starting to figure out to actually ask their questions in the appropriate channel xD
foggy path
Maybe people are just not as bored as we are 
agile egret
Oh im not bored. Frustrated to shit with some weird changes epic made to scalability stuff
foggy path
bored or procrastinating then lol
agile egret
generated from their config file:
its the ultimate tool xD
So here is what is pissing me off:
You have a master preset for each category
If you manually modify any of the sub values, then that value will ignore updates from the master preset
For example I modified LightFunctionQuality
Changed the master preset to HIGH
ancient hornet
Man is it just me or is this discord slowly getting quieter as the months fly by?
Summer, Vacations
I seem to remember the same remarks every summer with "<mmo> is dead, there's no more players left!"
agile egret
@ancient hornet that sounds reasonable, thanks
proven thorn
Every game, community is dying.
ancient hornet
the world is dying! people disappear left and right!
https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/08/20/android-developer-class-action-suit-targets-play-store-and-its-30-transaction-fee/
open the floodgates Epic did
thin storm
man this heat is not going away.
ancient hornet
because 30% eats massively into the revenue of software vendors while Apple enjoys a massive profit margin out of doing little (for the scale of the thing)
supposedly Apple gross margin on services is 60% or so, that's incredibly insane profit
Apple Q3 2020: 38% gross margin company-wide.
that's insane profit margin too
one doesn't get such insane profit margins without gouging some customers/clients ๐
zinc matrix
ok, i hope epic targets steam too for discouraging developers from ever publishing their games on drm-free platforms like itch.io and gog. but otherwise this isn't my immediate concern
ancient hornet
what do you think EGS is?
I don't really see Valve discouraging devs from drm-free platforms though?
dim ruin
aww shit. Class action suit time already? Damn that didn't take long lol
tbh that's awesome. fuck their 30%
ancient hornet
I found out there has been a lawsuit against AppStore monopoly going on since 2011
by Apple customers even
dim ruin
heh
ancient hornet
that even got the Supreme Court involved last year
dim ruin
I'm happy to see it though. 30% has been a magic number across platforms with no reason other than "thats just the way it is everywhere". I'm glad to see them possibly being accountable for it
man, these Unity starter projects are fun as hell on their own lol
zinc matrix
what do you think EGS is?
@ancient hornet I've heard people give it shit mainly because the games are not on Steam, but I'm not sure if I can have an opinion on it as someone who's at most used Epic Games' stuff for Unreal Engine only
ancient hornet
well Epic went after Steam by making a competing store and buying exclusivities or other user goodies to build their user base because they could
oh and giving away EOS too
but for iOS this doesn't work so they need a judge rulling to attack their platform
zinc matrix
EOS?
tulip orbit
what could possibly be more important than talking to ponkkis??
north torrent
The part of my cat that goes meow isn't working right...
foggy path
Spent ages figuring out how to make a markov chain..
I still don't understand why all the examples are either massively overengineered, or just... really, really bad, buggy and nonfunctional
:P
the markov chain is used to generate the tagline
the title, images, etc. are just chosen purely at random
this will probably also be used in the tape covers yeah
foggy path
I wonder how brilliant of an idea is it to increase global time dilation by like 20x for "sleeping"
this feels like it'll just break stuff lol
so far it seems to work actually ๐ค
zinc matrix
Not sure where this should go. Are there any resources on project consistency? Sometimes stuff breaks, warnings about missing assets that have been long since deleted, or some assets crash on load and I gotta delete them. I presume at some points I compromise project's consistency somehow, and some assumptions the editor makes aren't true anymore, so I get strange stuff all over.
foggy path
it affects my AI logic a little bit because it doesn't speed up audio so the npc's spend a relatively long time speaking now
but other than that even physics isn't spazzing out
for me the day night cycle thing would work just fine I think, it's mostly that it would be funny if you sleep and there's still customers lol
@zinc matrix not sure tbh since haven't really ran into that, but maybe run fix up redirectors every so often
yeah maybe, I mean the actors are affected by it just fine it's just the audio that plays at exactly the same rate
which kinda makes sense, I'll just have to set up a system that also speeds up the audio the npc's make :D
yeah but they have some behavior like they'll say something, then perform a task
they could probably skip the speech if speeding up audio doesn't work :D
zinc matrix
fix up redirectors every so often
I do so. Not a single redirector in the whole project.
Just been wondering if there are tools for fixing consistency issues that go past what editor can do.
foggy path
well, as long as you're using version control you should always be able to go back or get older versions of files and merge into the current version if needed
I've definitely noticed a couple of cases where I modified something, the game worked, but then the other dev said he's getting a BP compilation error
zinc matrix
Blueprint-only project. Merges usually break more stuff.
foggy path
on something that should definitely have given me a BP compilation error but didn't :P
zinc matrix
And going back isn't always feasable, since I can't just roll one file back. UE4 assets are interconnected somehow.
Editor crashed on load when I changed a struct on one branch, and merged it into the other.
But I think issues like this could've been fixed with some low-level editor that doesn't care about consistency.
foggy path
@zinc matrix actually I'm noticing some of my animation BP's are getting messed up... I suspect it's not detecting the timing of the animation correctly ๐ค
I'm just using a check like "time remaining < 0.1" so maybe there's some other method which is more reliable..
also it seems the pitch modulation that can be used to speed up audio has an undocumented max limitation
so skipping speech seems like the way to go if it works otherwise