lounge

[proven thorn]

With money

[fallow finch]

no i mean how can i get 10k copies

[proven thorn]

... with money spent towards advertising / marketing / influencing

Either you pay people to do that or you spend your time doing it.

However, some things just require you to spend money

[fallow finch]

Yes but i was thinking if its hard or not to get ppl buy the game

i have good plan for merketing

I know 2 youtubers they have 4.8M and 7.5M sub they will make a review for the game xD

i hope can reach 10k 😦 my dream

[gilded lichen]

10k a year?

[fallow finch]

or less

[proven thorn]

Depends on who those YouTubers are.

And what their audience is.

If their audience mostly just watch them play games ... not really.

But if they are actively reviewing games and their audience makes purchasing decisions based on their reviews then it can work

But in general, we see YouTubers maybe have like a 0.001% conversion rate

[fallow finch]

yes its games channels

[proven thorn]

Links?

[fallow finch]

they are arabs

i will show you

https://www.youtube.com/c/oPiiLz

https://www.youtube.com/c/BanderitaX

[unkempt kindle]

I really love the step from epic games against apple/android.
It might be a selfish reason, but if they win it will also mean that indie devs will make more money out of they games

[proven thorn]

Both appear to be variety streamers

BanderitaX definitely has a more engaged audience

[fallow finch]

Yes he got his audience from Mario

[proven thorn]

You'll have to talk to them about their audience, but usually most variety YouTubers I have worked with in the past don't tend to sell games as their audience tends to watch for their personality and content

[fallow finch]

he was funny in that part

i will send them and just review normal

for me i bought like 3-4 games because of them because they show the good part of the game

[proven thorn]

Sure, but you might be that 0.001% conversion I'm talking about

[fallow finch]

yes maybe iam the only one 😄

[proven thorn]

The thing is, they don't normally do reviews.

Where as other YouTubers that focus specifically on reviews, tend to have a smaller audience but are more likely to buy games based on said reviews

[fallow finch]

hmm

then promotions and discounts

[proven thorn]

Steam is very much a rich get rich scenrio

If your game doesn't sell well at the beginning, it is likely to drop in views

[fallow finch]

yes true

[proven thorn]

It's like all app stores really, if you're not in the top X you very quickly fall off visibility

[fallow finch]

if you have active engagements with the page on steam the game will be more popular in categories

[proven thorn]

Only thing that matters for Steam really is sales

If you're not getting sales, it doesn't matter for the most part what else happens

[fallow finch]

yes

i will try my best to get 5k-10k Sales in first few months 😄

thats all what i need 10k and i will start next level

[zinc matrix]

@fallow finch might want to implement in app purchases too. they work well on steam

i made my games free to play a while ago, IAP only. never looked back

[fallow finch]

you mean in game purchase ?

[zinc matrix]

yes, they are interchangeable for the most part

[light spruce]

I'd be far more concerned with building something that you care about building. Because if you're focused on trying to hit a number of sales, you're just going to be disappointed if you don't get it, which is statistically likely.

[zinc matrix]

check Steamworks Documentation > Features > Microtransactions (In-Game Purchases)

[fallow finch]

i will check it thanks

[zinc matrix]

well it's important he has an infrastructure for it

i build for enjoyment too

[fallow finch]

@light spruce well for me if the game released that big success

[zinc matrix]

but i am very glad i actually took the time to implement the microtransaction stuff and google play IAP stuff to my games

[fallow finch]

but you know some sales will be good

[proven thorn]

Well, the easiest thing to ask, is ... what is your game?

[zinc matrix]

against tos to post specifics in chat but it's a sci fi

i have like 5 games total

non stop coder haha

[fallow finch]

its Restoration Simulator

im doing Multiplayer Co-op

[zinc matrix]

neat. you're using a dedicated server?

[fallow finch]

im using self host now

the player will be session host

[zinc matrix]

digital ocean has some good deals. $5 / vm

i used sessions before but listen servers lag if the host is high latency

switched to dedicated. i just use open x.x.x.x for a connection from the client

works great

[fallow finch]

Yes but its first project so we still have to learn everything while we going xD

[proven thorn]

F2P is pretty tricky, usually good conversion rates are like 1% - 3%

[zinc matrix]

basically the idea is to make it cosmetic only James

so players buy if they wish

it's entirely handled through banner ads / in game purchases or IAP on mobile

[proven thorn]

I'm reasonable well versed with F2P

I don't make them, I'm still in the realm of premium games

[zinc matrix]

🌐

network symbol

[proven thorn]

@fallow finch Getting $10K on Steam these days is pretty hard it seems

Don't know if you've seen that document published by Valve, but the %'s are pretty low

And $10K on Steam ain't that large either

[fallow finch]

they take 30% of Total Revenue also

But with 20M player active daily

i thought the 10k Copies is easy xD

[proven thorn]

Noooo .. absolutely do not think like that.

There are games on Steam that have sold 0 copies

[fallow finch]

yes i know but the games unplayable

[proven thorn]

No, sometimes it appears on the store for like 30 mins and then gets buried by new released

and then it's done

[fallow finch]

im trying to make a very interactive game with my team's skill

but why they can advertise everywhere for the game with trailers and photos designs

[proven thorn]

It doesn't matter what you make, it only matters what the market thinks

[fallow finch]

Yes but i tried to get an idea that alot of people will like to do

Simulation Games with multiplayer Co-op cleaning painting fixing reparing houses hospitals factories its little bit funny

and alot of ppl like this style specially when you have a team playing with you

[proven thorn]

Isn't there already a game that is that idea?

[fallow finch]

Yes there is but not Multiplayer and just houses

[proven thorn]

Mmm, well, maybe it'll work out.

It's hard to judge

[fallow finch]

Yes

[proven thorn]

Most people told me that Depth would never sell on Steam

But hey, we proved them wrong

[fallow finch]

its hard to decide before you start

for me after the steam verified my account and store page was a big success 😄

[light spruce]

shark murder simulator Depth?

[fallow finch]

its have 20,576 Review

[proven thorn]

Depth has sold around 1.5m copies

[fallow finch]

😮

but its released at 2014

[proven thorn]

I sent it into IDGA and was told by judges that it wouldn't be popular or sell very well

[fallow finch]

4$ Price

Depth your game ?

[proven thorn]

Should be around $20USD

Could depend on your region tho

[fallow finch]

Yes in Turkish Lira 31TRY

so 4$

[light spruce]

am I crazy or did the little treasure sub have a name?

[fallow finch]

who xD

[proven thorn]

Wow, that's a crazy price in Turkey

[fallow finch]

Yes but if 1.5M copies for 4$ its mean 6M$ 😄

[light spruce]

I remember us yelling at it.. so I don't remember if it had a name or we just gave it one

that was a long time ago

[proven thorn]

@fallow finch That's just regional pricing

In the US, where the majority of sales are, it is around $20

[fallow finch]

wow

so we are talking about 20M$ xD

[thin storm]

what was the first thing you did when you got that ton of money on your bank account?

[fallow finch]

for me 200k$ will be enough to bring my team here and open my studio and buy a villa with a Vogue xD

[proven thorn]

Well, it was a game studio

[light spruce]

"Too bad I don't have an offshore tax haven"

[proven thorn]

And so, I have a largish team

~30 people

[fallow finch]

oh

we are 4 working unpaid and 2 new guys will be paid for service they do

Can i borrow 2 ppl from your team 😄

Can i borrow 2 ppl from your team 😄

Can i borrow 2 ppl from your team 😄

[proven thorn]

Ah yeah, got to hustle at the beginning

Ah we've never worked for free

Even when we started the company

Nor for royalties

[fallow finch]

ah you know we are from 3rd countries so its hard so we have to work for royalty

when i say im developing a game they start laugh xP

https://www.digitalconfectioners.com/about/

Handsome 😄

[proven thorn]

Most said the same to us too, definitely best of luck!

[fallow finch]

thanks im trying to push my team and my self and ignoring those ppl

Im doing that as a hobby before everything so at the end if i sold 0 or 100M its success for us

[light spruce]

That's the right approach.

You do the best job you can do and if you do that, it's a win.

[fallow finch]

at least we learn from this and get some experience xD

thank you all guys ❤️

[plucky pagoda]

Any recommendations for a good GUI Git client for windows?

I want to start putting some of my personal UE libraries up.

[light spruce]

Does git handle binary files now?

or do you only work in c++?

[plucky pagoda]

These are c++ libraries and modules

I avoid it tbh. But some stuff has to be done in it.

I've just never liked working with c++

[light spruce]

That's why I was wondering... because the binary file formats are what results in being in Perforce hell

[plucky pagoda]

I need to give Plastic another go. only used it a bit but seemed easier to use

[light spruce]

I managed to avoid learning C++, but I've dealt with enough syntax stuff that I can kinda muddle my way through reading it

Plastic?

[plucky pagoda]

I'll be thrilled if UE gets something like what Unity is doing where it's automatically handled by the editor and you pay a few bucks for so many gigs storage.

https://www.plasticscm.com/

[light spruce]

My stuff is all local because I don't work with anyone and I know how to Linux

Man, are people even still using subversion?

"Try to reach Linus 😛" Yeah, maybe you too can be told by him that you should have been aborted

[fathom wadi]

@plucky pagoda I don't like that idea at all. I prefer to keep my code repos offline and in my own possession. I dont trust corporations with my data and obviously being the best game developer in the world, I don't want my ideas stolen :p

[plucky pagoda]

I'm going to make a few of them public.

Just some of the more generic ones

[light spruce]

I was starting to think that was going to wind up reading "I'm having a stroke"

[plucky pagoda]

It probably should.

enter key on this keyboard is a smidge lower than my last one.

hit it instead of shift a lot still.

[light spruce]

the fuck kind of weird keyboard are you using where enter is in a different place?

[pearl elk]

Im gonna launch a remaster of my game every other month

[light spruce]

Get out, Todd

[pearl elk]

That should keep it relevant in peoples minds

Its not about the game you launch but what the game becomes 😉

[light spruce]

It's not about Skyrim; it's about how many times you release Skyrim.

I never finished the main story in it or Oblivion

I hate the combat

[plucky pagoda]

The angle of the keys is different

[pearl elk]

Skyrim for smartwatches

[light spruce]

Yeah, I hate the combat in it too

For different reasons

Well... different aspects of the same reason, I guess

Basically "It's not Dark Souls"

Do you mean the key cap profile is different or are you using some kind of ergonomic and/or ortho-linear job?

[pearl elk]

Im gonna make a game called Bark Souls

[light spruce]

You were also correct prior to the edit

[pearl elk]

youre a tree and you have to stand very still

if you move, even just alittle... you die

[light spruce]

I thought it was going to be like the DOG cheat in Rise of the Triad.

https://tenor.com/baEGd.gif

[pearl elk]

maybe dogs come to pee on you

and you have to stand very still

or you die

[light spruce]

There are two things that are commonly said about Dark Souls and neither of them are completely true. One, that it's a really hard game (it is, but a lot of times that difficulty is overblown and there are certainly harder and easier ways to play it). And that it's tough but fair (there absolutely still is cheap-ass bullshit in it)

Reminds me of when I was a kid and we were being told about what to do if a strange dog wandered to us.... and it was "stand very still like a tree". And someone asked, "what if it pees on you?"

@plucky pagoda Plastic doesn't look too bad except the personal edition would be local machine only... makes it a no-go for me.

[plucky pagoda]

I think you can still setup a server for it

I thought you couldn't at first which is why I didn't really use it, but I saw something later that made me think you could. I think it might have pfist that pointed it out.

[light spruce]

according to their matrix, the community edition one is the free one that has support for an on premises team server... and that's just for non-profit/open source software use

[plucky pagoda]

ah

I could swear there was a way to use a local server on the cheap

[thorny dock]

That would be awesome if you could use the personal version of Plastic on a server, on the last inside unreal where AndiDev makes the sailing project, he mentioned that he has the cloud version to work across multiple devices

[bronze axle]

For those anticipating the RTX 3000 series: the countdown has started. https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/special-event/

[plucky pagoda]

I'll gladly accept donations in the form of GPU

[bronze axle]

https://tenor.com/view/hum-intensifies-simon-cowell-rage-gif-17205102

[light spruce]

sign me up for more performance destroying ray-tracing

[thorny dock]

I'm dying to know what the price of the 24g card is going to be

[light spruce]

as AvE would say, "an arm and a dick"

[pearl elk]

My rayness is ready

[bronze axle]

Rumors suggest the performance will be a significant leap over RTX 2000 cards. We'll see.

[plucky pagoda]

Probably only one or two organs.

[fathom wadi]

I found out this week that my CPU is dying. I had it on overclock from 4ghz to 4.6ghz and a build of UE4 killed it somehow. So a couple of bluescreens and several recompiles later I fix it only by turning off Turbo mode on my CPU 😦 Feelsbadman. Not the best time to try find money for a replacement.

[light spruce]

for a given definition of "significant"

[pearl elk]

STX 6000

[plucky pagoda]

what was it?

I think Ryzens have gone up

ah, 2700x for around 200 usd

3700x under 300

[light spruce]

I doubt you actually "killed" it unless you had actually turned off all the thermal protection and/or seriously overvolted the shit out of it

[plucky pagoda]

It can happen fast

I've fried motherboards more often though.

not in the last 15 years though

[light spruce]

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Lot easier to fuck up the voltage reg on the board

[plucky pagoda]

back when you had to change things with jumpers and toggles

[bronze axle]

@light spruce By significant, I mean the RTX 3080 is rumored to be up to 20% faster than RTX 2080 Ti overalll, 50% faster in 4K.

[plucky pagoda]

fried a lot of stuff

[pearl elk]

woohoo finally 4K raytracing @25fps 😛

[plucky pagoda]

Can't wait to see what people do with it

[bronze axle]

Raytracing is still a novel thing. It's not going to be mainstream for at least another generation, I think.

[plucky pagoda]

Yeah, 2 to 4 years to give people time to really play with it

[light spruce]

Though they do have a lifespan on them... so if it's been running at that for quite a while now... it just may not be able to handle running at 4.6 anymore and might only hold 4.4 or 4.5

[bronze axle]

I'm just interested because I'm building a new workstation when Black Friday rolls around this year.

[plucky pagoda]

Nice.

[bronze axle]

Great timing with UE5 around the corner.

[light spruce]

20% would actually be significant

[bronze axle]

Yes, very. Especially considering that number is comparing a 3080 over a 2080 Ti.

[light spruce]

But, you know marketing wank

[plucky pagoda]

I'm hoping I have a threadripper budget next year

[bronze axle]

Indeed. We'll have to wait and see the real benchmarks.

[light spruce]

Significant performance increase! (4% under certain workloads)

[pearl elk]

hopefully Nvidia buys ARM then I dont need to buy AMD or Intel

[bronze axle]

Threadripper would be awesome, but I'm aiming for a Ryzen 3950X. Sixteen cores + all the modern features I could ask for in a sub-$700 CPU is too good to pass up.

[light spruce]

Yeah, I'd love to watch nvidia shit up ARM

[bronze axle]

Been pricing out my build on PC Part Picker. So far I'm looking at about $3,200 not including peripherals.

[light spruce]

I don't even know what you'd do with threadripper on a workstation

[plucky pagoda]

YEah, that'd be nice. I'd end up with that if I upgraded now. 2700x isn't a pain to work on though.

[pearl elk]

Id use a TR for about 5 mins a day

Id spend the rest of the day trying to work out how to use it longer

[bronze axle]

I'm still rocking a 6700K and a GTX 1070.

[light spruce]

1700x and a 1060

ballin' on a budget

[bronze axle]

They've served me well, but they're becoming a bottleneck in 2020; especially for client projects.

[pearl elk]

7700HQ, GTX 1070 here

[plucky pagoda]

I'm so far out of the loop on intel , it's all gibberish

[light spruce]

so... you're saying you understand what's going on with intel then

[bronze axle]

Intel certainly appears to be struggling.

The naming scheme for their current lineup is awful.

[plucky pagoda]

I just have no idea how to equate an intel anything to an AMD

[light spruce]

This is what happens when you sit around and go, "ha ha ha, we have no competition and everyone will gobble up our shit"

[plucky pagoda]

2700x though has been fine to work on. A little slow sometimes with full engine builds but nothing else

[bronze axle]

Intel's current strategy does wreak of complacency.

[pearl elk]

Well they lost Apple, so they'll feel it

[plucky pagoda]

They've relied on large business adoption too much and taken it for granted.

[light spruce]

You would also think that at least one of their dickhead MBAs would understand saturation too

[plucky pagoda]

AMDs made a hell of a comeback.

I don't even look at anything else anymore.

[light spruce]

but god they need to do that on the GPU side really bad

[pearl elk]

they call em 10th gen intel like anyone gives a shit what gen it is

[plucky pagoda]

I still cringe at the idea of buying a Radeon even though it's been like 17 years since I used one.

[bronze axle]

Have you seen the meaning of Intel's current naming scheme? It's bonkers that they think anyone would care to keep track of it.

[pearl elk]

Id say Intel are lucky MS are still using them for the surface lineup

[bronze axle]

https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/vxA5UzVJRoGQaFZXFHYzNW-970-80.png

[proud pier]

Raytracing... bahah

Intel... bahaha more

But yeah, @bronze axle $3200, do you have a link?

Curious to see the parts

[plucky pagoda]

That's bad marketing. If I was AMD I'd run ads about dumping them in a lake too.

[proud pier]

As for 3000 series

[tame dawn]

RTX 30 series is rumoured to have something like 5x the raytracing performance of RTX 20

[light spruce]

Jesus. How up your own ass do you have to be for that description graphic?

[proud pier]

Nvidia will always be the king of graphics in my book

in my eyes

Even though I think they have been really anti-consumer lately

Since RTX series debut

[tame dawn]

Personally I think raytracing is still in it's gimmick phase, and probably will be for a while until the industry decides what it's priority is

[bronze axle]

But yeah, @bronze axle $3200, do you have a link?
@proud pier Yeah one sec.

[proud pier]

AMD still hasn't quite caught up to Nvidia on GPU side other than APUs

[light spruce]

The concept of the Founders Edition was some bullshit

[pearl elk]

Do you guys remember VR, that was awesome

[tame dawn]

Some people keep saying 60FPS @ 1440p with raytracing, others say 4k at 60fps, then people like me prefer 1440p with no raytracing at 144fps

[proud pier]

But AMD has pretty much destroyed Intel in my eyes on Desktop CPUs

[tame dawn]

No way am I sacrificing 144FPS at 1440p in my shooter games just for raytracing lol

[light spruce]

The benefit you can get for games from raytracing just isn't in any way worth the performance hit

[proud pier]

I am not one for "efficiency/thermals", so that's why I have a 3900X in my current RIG versus the latest Intel

[plucky pagoda]

Once enough people have the hardware there's going to be some crazy games using it.

[proud pier]

I am definitely more of a core count value/performance now

[pearl elk]

No way Im sacrificing 400FPS @ 4K for raytracing

[tame dawn]

Intel processors are ded except for if your rig is literally just for gaming

[light spruce]

As a graphics workstation feature? Yeah, realtime raytracing is pretty amazing

[proud pier]

@plucky pagoda problem is...it takes years... sometimes a decade for new things to get mainstream if they ever do

[plucky pagoda]

Waiting for the full four wall 10 foot 80000k screens

[proud pier]

Look at TV/HD resolution

Monitors

How many people are STILL FREAKING STUCK AT 1080p !?!?!?!?!!

[plucky pagoda]

floor,walls, holodeck territiory

[proud pier]

Like omg

[pearl elk]

Im waiting for the day when the minimum requirements of a game says a specific speed of SSD 😛

[proud pier]

I've had 1440p (i don't particular think I need 4K yet), for years now

[tame dawn]

People play at 1080p if they're on a tight budget, or if they're a competitive player

[light spruce]

Unless you have gameplay features that for some reason rely on raytracing... what difference does it really make?

[proud pier]

Anytime I go down to 1080p (laptop or something) I cry so hard

[tame dawn]

1080p at 240hz is based god for CSGO

[pearl elk]

Xbox Series S is apparently for 1080p lovers

[proud pier]

But that's my point

[bronze axle]

Here's my preliminary build list. Subject to change with AMD and NVIDIA slated to release new hardware this fall. https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nkpfstr/saved/xdC2Vn

[tame dawn]

I do 1440p on 27" at 144hz

[proud pier]

1080p still...

How many years have we had 1080p for?

[pearl elk]

MS cant launch it though without saying resolution doesnt matter so much 😛

[tame dawn]

@bronze axle that RAM be slow

[proud pier]

And still stuck at this resolution for mainstream 😦

[pearl elk]

its cuz we need more refresh mane

[bronze axle]

@tame dawn I have no practical need to go above 3.2 GHz.

[thorny dock]

Have you ever owned an Aorus board before? I'm going to RMA once my anti static bags arrive, nothing but a horrible experience

[plucky pagoda]

Nice.

[pearl elk]

resolution is an illusion, refresh is forever

[tame dawn]

Boost clock

[proud pier]

@bronze axle IMHO, I debated between 3950X and 3900X, and because of availability at the time, I got 3900X, but honestly I doubt I would notice a difference between them, and most people that have both or had both, say the same. So you might save yourself some money with 3900X

[bronze axle]

Have you ever owned an Aorus board before? I'm going to RMA once my anti static bags arrive, nothing but a horrible experience
@thorny dock I haven't, but I've heard good things about the line and I like the feature/price ratio on that board. I can always RMA and try a different one if it doesn't work out.

I don't plan on overclocking anything.

[proud pier]

If you are going to spend some serious money on a cooler... you might as well go AIO water cooler also

[tame dawn]

Processor overclocks itself automatic under load, boost clock

overclocking is taking it beyond the boost clock

[plucky pagoda]

I like that board. The one thing I wish mine had was a second m2 slot

[pearl elk]

only thing Id change on your build is the fans and the case, otherwise its all good 🙂

[bronze axle]

My current workstation uses an AIO. It's been fine but I want to go back to air cooling for the next build.

[tame dawn]

X570 is good, but double check the board has a USB E header

otherwise the front panel usb c on your case wont work

[plucky pagoda]

Oh damn, saw 2 but it has 3

[bronze axle]

Yep. 3 slots. ❤️

[plucky pagoda]

Yeah. I like that.

[tame dawn]

B550 line for AMD does have USB type E for usb c on them but some X570s were missing it

[bronze axle]

I have high storage demands.

[proud pier]

This thing is a beast, highly recommend

[bronze axle]

OS drive, games/projects drive, and a dedicated drive for audio libraries. They take up a lot of space.

[tame dawn]

Have you looked at pcie 4.0 drives too?

I got a 2TB Sabrent rocket 4, for £370

[proud pier]

^ i got one as well

Well, I think it's the 1Tb one

[tame dawn]

Fast as hell for opening stuff like photogrammetry scenes which are huge

[proud pier]

But yeah, that is a great drive

yup, 1TB one

[tame dawn]

Jesus that's a lot of drives aha

[proud pier]

I would have more...but

[thorny dock]

Yes the feature/price ratio is great, I don't OC either, but Aorus is a gigabyte rebrand, the current state of their software is absolutely unacceptable, I would really recommend looking around the internet and aorus discord about the current state of the app center and easytune, there are endless issues including a history of issues with gskill ram. They have had so many problems with their software that at one point they came out and said "sorry we are a hardware company not a software company". My board in particular reports the CPU at -10c from what the chip reports, and lately one of my fans fail when ramping up the system, like during packaging, this is not an uncommon issue

[proud pier]

I ran outta sata slots

[tame dawn]

I dialed my system back to being more minimalist to discourage me from bad practice, like having ridiculous file sizes and not zipping when done

[bronze axle]

I've looked at more affordable PCIe drives like the Sabrent Rockets, yes. They didn't seem to offer any advantage over Samsung, and I trust Samsung's drives. Years of experience with multiple drives and I like the Samsung Magician software for tracking their health.

[proud pier]

oops, flash

can't see through that glass 😭

[light spruce]

Oh, shit, yeah... I had a Gigabyte board once... man.. fuck all of that forever

[proud pier]

anyway, mine's pretty minimalistic...to my needs 😉

[plucky pagoda]

I've had good luck with Gigabyte

[tame dawn]

• NZXT H1 white
• Ryzen 7 3700x
• G Skill Trident Z Neo 2x16GB
• Gigabyte Windforce OC GTX 1080 (fuck gigabyte windforce runs like a toaster)
• Sabrent rocket 4 2TB
• ASUS Rog Strix b550 mini itx

Das me

[proud pier]

MSI is probably my least favorite mobo

[tame dawn]

Nzxt h1 is bae 😍

[proud pier]

I've never had any issues with ASUS ROG stuff

So, I went a bit all out for this dev rig

[tame dawn]

Gigabyte's boards have been ok for me, but every gigabyte card I've had has always run hot

hotter than the reference 1070 I had too

[plucky pagoda]

I'm copying that build list.

I love that board

[light spruce]

Welcome to the reality of "all of them are shit but sometimes you get lucky"

[tame dawn]

the rog strix b550i?

[bronze axle]

That list is the result of hours of research for my specific needs. Happy to share it if others have similar.

[tame dawn]

Have you checked the front port Usb c is compatible?

[proud pier]

Yeah, that's also a thing. You have to build it around your own needs.

[tame dawn]

That caught me off guard with the x570, I had to switch to b550

[bronze axle]

Yeah it seems to check out.

[tame dawn]

but it might just be mini itx x570s that are missing it

and PCPartPicker won't warn you

[plucky pagoda]

The card might be too rich for me. But the MB and processor are right inline with what I'd go for.

[proud pier]

Yeah, I wouldn't get an RTX series card yet

[bronze axle]

Yeah, I go to video reviews for stuff like that. Hardware Canucks and Gamers Nexus are my favorites.

[proud pier]

I mean, maybe we'll see with 3000 series

I am still stuck on my GTX 1070TI

[bronze axle]

They always point out the little things.

[proud pier]

But honestly... I have NEVER had issues with my GPU

[tame dawn]

I'd deffo recommend going 3600 CL16 or 3200 Cl14 if the budget allows it too, if it's like $20 on the day I'd say it's worth the little bit extra just for long term support 🙂

[proud pier]

So, it always seems stupid to upgrade the GPU until there's a need for it

Especially RTX...as I have no plans on incorporating Raytracing yet in any game

[tame dawn]

love my G Skill rgb ram too even though you can hardly see it in an NZXT H1 lmao

[proud pier]

And that's the only reason you should get it as a dev

Since games aren't really there yet for it

(or maybe one or two are)

[tame dawn]

I'm gonna go for an RTX3080 -- I own a 1080 atm

[proud pier]

I'll wait it out

[tame dawn]

Wanting to push competitive games to stable 144fps at 1440p

[proud pier]

I can

[tame dawn]

things like Apex range between 70-144

[proud pier]

I want to see how good/value the 1080TI will be

[tame dawn]

even with G Sync it can be jarring

[proud pier]

Or the 1070TI

I have gsync on all my monitors

what a crap tech

[tame dawn]

your poor PSU 😂

[proud pier]

I always run into issues with it

So it's just off

I feel like I wasted a crapton of money on these Rogswifts

[tame dawn]

Turn off for windowed mode, only fullscreen, is what I do

I've found it gets fucky with 3d windowed apps like 3ds max and unreal

but on anything fullscreen it's alright

tho I don't use actual g sync, I use g sync compatible, on the LG 27GL850

[bronze axle]

I have no current plans to support raytracing in my own games, but it's come up with multiple clients this year.

So I'm mostly upgrading that for work.

[tame dawn]

didn't wanna lock myself into nVidia with Amd's big navi threat

[pearl elk]

invisible navi

it'll be carved from remnants of the tree of souls

[light spruce]

I just hope that by the time I need a new case I can still get one with a 90 degree rotated layout

[pearl elk]

By the time i get a new case those will be RTX too 😛

[light spruce]

I've had my Silverstone RV-03 for quite a while now

an FT05 would be a lot cleaner looking these days... luckily... the case is over there where I can't see it

[pearl elk]

I kinda want a Corsair Crystal 680X but I dunno

[light spruce]

I kinda want 100% less mustache itch

[pearl elk]

try beard oil

[proud pier]

beard oil is addictive

Especially combing

[pearl elk]

Also question, can you get coronavirus from RBG lighting? Asking for a friend

[light spruce]

only 5G

[bronze axle]

What a funny coincidence. Here I am talking about building a new PC, and mine blue screens. lol

[pearl elk]

I blame windows update

[light spruce]

I can't decide if I'm going to shave it all back down or not. Normally I keep the beard parts trimmed to a 4 and a 3 on the mustache. No oil required. But I think it's like twice that long now.

[plucky pagoda]

wax

[fathom wadi]

I like it when people shave their beard off after 10 years and someone asks "why did you shave it off?" and they say "it was itchy".
In my mind im like "wtf it was itchy for 10 years and you shave it now?"

[plucky pagoda]

The few times I've shaved it feels too weird to stay that way.

[light spruce]

"I just wanted to feel something"

[plucky pagoda]

I've trimmed mine though, not sporting the full Santa Claus anymore.

[fathom wadi]

If you see me with a beard, there has been some crunch on the go.

[light spruce]

I actually shaved with a razor in April

it was weird 😦

[plucky pagoda]

use cold water with a razor at first

[pearl elk]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/WTGZhg

here we go, intel build. That might be AUD too

[light spruce]

I just meant having shaved it off

[plucky pagoda]

ah

straight razors take getting use to

[tame dawn]

hissssss intel hissssss

[light spruce]

straight razors scare the shit out of me

[pearl elk]

This intel still faster than your car bro

oh sick burn... out 😛

[light spruce]

I would never use one

[plucky pagoda]

I don't have much use for razors either

[tame dawn]

Uhhhh

[bronze axle]

I love my razor because I despise that I'm such a hairy person.

[tame dawn]

Intel 10900k is maybe 10% better at single core tasks, at most

But costs £150-200 more >_>

Ryzen 9 3900x murders it at multi core

[pearl elk]

On my list the AMD costs more

[plucky pagoda]

My beard was always hard on razors, had to change blades too often

[tame dawn]

p.s. I don't have a car

[bronze axle]

I think the more interesting comparison to Intel will be when Apple launches their ARM Macs this year. Really curious to see how that goes.

[tame dawn]

3900x is $100usd cheaper

[fathom wadi]

I used to have a genuine phobia of razor blades after being bullied with one. Eventually I decided to face it head on, and let a party full of people razor my hair off (it was down to my arse after growing it for 5 years). I downed a half pint of vodka, next thing I know I wake up barfing into the toilet, with 5 people shaving my head. I blacked out again. Came around and they had all left me, with half a head of hair. I walked into the party and everyone stopped to stare at me. Then someone said "awww someone finish the wee man's head off will yee".

[pearl elk]

just the cpu, mobo too

AMD still make chipsets right 😛

[light spruce]

If you're talking about cartridge razors rather than say, a safety razor, you can actually hone them by running them backward on some jeans and get some more life out of them

[tame dawn]

Motherboards aren't rly something that's point blank comparable because typically you buy the cheapest you can that fits your requirements

Unless you're just splashing cash for nice RGBs

[plucky pagoda]

I'll give any razor a run for its money

[light spruce]

Carefully cropped: the X in his forehead

[tame dawn]

it's rare that people really care about the 'middle ground', most ppl either go for the cheapest most reliable thing that fits their needs, or they go big bucks gimme rgbs

for the Mobo*

Do you have more storage than 1TB already?

[light spruce]

You don't exactly want to go dirt cheap if you're planning on overclocking

[pearl elk]

In my experience all new AMD chipsets cost more than their intel counterparts, so the cost saving from having an AMD is negligible, they win on multicore performance though yes no doubt

[light spruce]

Since you kinda want to not have your VRMs eat shit

[tame dawn]

The Zen3 series may well cost a fortune

But was looking at 10900k/kf vs 3900x

[light spruce]

also, don't drink vodka. or let people shave your head

[tame dawn]

Unless it's a solid gaming only rig, you're almost certainly gonna get better performance with the latter, and likely slightly cheaper

[pearl elk]

I have to buy a mobo if I want to put a CPU in it

I suppose it might look nice on my desk

[bronze axle]

I wonder if the current Ryzen chips will go down in price again when Zen 3 launches.

They did when the XT variants launched.

[tame dawn]

They have dropped a bit in the UK

Also there's a huge influx on Amazon warehouse lmfao

From people 'returning a faulty one' ready for Zen3

[plucky pagoda]

I hope they do.

[tame dawn]

since in the UK our warranty laws are really consumer strong

[bronze axle]

The 3950X is down to $690 now. What a price for that monster chip.

[plucky pagoda]

Hoping they come down end of year or early next at least.

[tame dawn]

in the UK for example if something breaks in the first 6 months you can return it by law no questions asked

but Amazon UK will pretty much take anything back from you for up to a year

[pearl elk]

I wish I could just buy the GPU and call it done, with the amount they cost everything else is like penny pinching

[tame dawn]

It depends if AMD cease production too

[plucky pagoda]

I had two fire kids tablets break and had new ones exchanged 2 days before the 2 year mark.

[tame dawn]

nVidia have halted 20 series production so the price won't drop massively, a lot of people scalp them on eBay for repairs etc

IT departments in companies tend to go for like for like parts rather than new, even if it may be better value

So a lot of old parts hold value on eBay after production halts

[plucky pagoda]

Is the marketplace team comprised of non developers?

[north torrent]

Do game developers exist?

[plucky pagoda]

Anything this painful must be real.

[light spruce]

but pain is just weakness leaving the body

[bronze axle]

So is sweat.

[tame dawn]

@plucky pagoda for Amazon products yeah they'll generally replace anything, because they're the manufacturer prob?

[bronze axle]

At least according to Nicky Holender's HIIT workouts.

[tame dawn]

I meant like in the UK if you buy a processor from Amazon and you tell them it's broken after a year and a half, they'll probably just send you a new one

Whereas in the US I've heard warranty laws are much weaker

Like a shop can basically tell you to F off after 30 days?

[light spruce]

I don't know who Nicky Holender is.

[plucky pagoda]

They might as well be non-existent in the US

[light spruce]

it's highly variable

[tame dawn]

But UK law is written like... You have the legal write to a 'reasonable' warranty, as what a typical person would expect, no less than one year

So if you buy a cheap ass mouse, and took it to court, they'd probably say one year is reasonable

[plucky pagoda]

consumer protection in the US is a misnomer.

[tame dawn]

but if it was a £100 gaming mouse, they might argue that 3 years is reasonable

[pearl elk]

Consumer protection in Australia rocks

[tame dawn]

Aus and Canada have v similar laws to the UK across the board

[light spruce]

I want some protection from YouTube continuing to play shitty dance music at me

[pearl elk]

ACCC will get ya if you screw up, just ask Valve and Sony 😛

[light spruce]

they just send in the giant spiders

[pearl elk]

https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/15/21369607/apple-ios-fortnite-ban-epic-lawsuit-cloud-gaming-xcloud-microsoft-antitrust-war

lol this headline

I think the worst that will happen to iOS, like absolute worst is that Apple will get split into hardware and software companies

[north torrent]

It isn't like Fortnite needs to be on mobile to make money... It has already been proven to be a money making machine...

[light spruce]

What will likely happen is nothing

[fathom wadi]

I bet 1 of 2 things occurs. either 1. Apple relent and make a new deal where the offset is shared as a "secondary service charge". or 2. They will do nothing because they don't have to. I think the law will cover them on this one as they can use the law surrounding a store owner being able to choose who they serve.

[plucky pagoda]

There's ramifications that would effect consoles as well. It would likely greatly change things there if it succeeded. A lot of the same arguments could be applied to MS, Sony, and the Mario people.

[north torrent]

And in the long run Apple slowly dies and withers away.

[pearl elk]

Not sure that holds cuz Ive seen chefs forced to make wedding cakes for diverse couples

Depends which country youre in I suppose but store policy is typically for the consumers not the seller

[light spruce]

Yeah, but that's actually a bullshit application of "public accommodation law."

[bronze axle]

If Epic wins their suit against Apple, it will set a remarkable precedent for the "walled garden" business model.

[north torrent]

But I am a pasta chef... I only know how to make pasta sauce and various noodles...

No! You will make these people a wedding cake or you will pay them $1 million dollars!

Googles how to make a cake

[plucky pagoda]

It's complicated for sure but I think the fact that Apple makes the hardware and the OS for it is relevant.

[light spruce]

Not that I'm in favor of discrimination, but a private business doing custom work isn't what I would call a "public accommodation"

[plucky pagoda]

I'm not sure where I'm at on some of it. Either way the 30% is ridiculous.

[pearl elk]

I think making the hardware and the OS might be what gets Apple and not Google into trouble tbh

Google also have the other stores out

[bronze axle]

@plucky pagoda It's going to be hard to prove that 30% is ridiculous in court, though.

[pearl elk]

Apple need the 30% to pay for their lawyers, case closed 😛

[plucky pagoda]

Yeah, the argument they lay out is pretty compelling but I can't really see them winning on all of it.

[north torrent]

I'll give you 30% if you offer me some sort of service like marketing or something.

30% just because 'Well, I own the whole market, so pay me 30% for my greatness'... no...

[plucky pagoda]

They argue it's 10x the rate of something else

[bronze axle]

Epic claims in their filing that 30% is "extortionate", but the court will likely look around at Microsoft, Sony, Valve et al, and say "It doesn't look that way to me."

[pearl elk]

Imagine if your CC company charged you 30% on every transaction

[bronze axle]

That is not comparable.

[pearl elk]

instead its like a 0.00038435% surcharge lol

it is actually cuz the software Apple makes should be covered in the cost of the phone

[light spruce]

Yeah, them bringing payment processing costs into it is a bullshit argument

[pearl elk]

the only thing you are buying from them with vbucks is the transaction

[bronze axle]

Apple, Valve, Microsoft, Sony, etc. all provide a hell of a lot more than payment processing for their 30%.

[plucky pagoda]

it's not software Apple makes that is at issue

[pearl elk]

Valve isnt comparable its not a walled garden

[bronze axle]

That's why it's not comparable to merchant fees from credit card issuers.

[pearl elk]

Nintendo would be a better case

[plucky pagoda]

As a consumer I like the walled garden of IOS.

[north torrent]

Valve should not be mentioned in the same sentence as consoles.

[bronze axle]

Valve is included here because they, too, charge 30%, and Epic speaks at length in their filing about the PC market.

[pearl elk]

I cant believe you like being charged 30% on everything you buy after spending thousands to enter that walled garden

[north torrent]

Valve charging the same as Nintendo is like buying a house in the Outback of Australia for the same price as a house in Tokyo...

[plucky pagoda]

As a consumer that 30% is invisible.

[bronze axle]

@pearl elk Who are you talking to?

[pearl elk]

You have a choice not to be on Steam, its not comparable

[light spruce]

As if lower distribution costs would actually result in lower prices

We all know that isn't true

[bronze axle]

It is as long as we're arguing about a 30% revenue share.

[pearl elk]

If you are on console or mobile you have very little choice, except in the case of Google

[bronze axle]

Re: spending thousands to enter the walled garden: I can buy an iPhone with industry-leading performance for $400.

[pearl elk]

Australian dollars

US isnt the center of the universe

[bronze axle]

Unless the "you" in your argument was developers, not consumers.

[plucky pagoda]

As a dev a mac mini for a few hundred works

[pearl elk]

developers buy the hardware too so it doesnt matter

[north torrent]

I would give Nintendo 30% of my earnings in an instant if they were going to release my game on the Nintendo Switch, because that would be instant marketing for me and an almost sure bet my game would be seen at least enough to break even.

Steam... ha... you are likely going to die in the bottom of a pit full of other unseen indie games never having been seen by anyone.

[pearl elk]

all consumers

[bronze axle]

@pearl elk This suit is happening in California, so US law and economics are relevant.

[pearl elk]

yes and my comment wasnt in a California court

it was in slackers lounge

when I say dollars, it means AUD every time

I will say USD if I mean USD

[north torrent]

HKD?

[pearl elk]

petty crap

[bronze axle]

OK. How much would it cost you to buy an iPhone SE?

[pearl elk]

which iPhone? 1?

[light spruce]

I'm glad we could clear that up in an unnecessarily adversarial fashion.

[north torrent]

It would cost your soul...

[bronze axle]

As I said, the iPhone SE.

The 2020 model.

Is it available there?

[pearl elk]

$1 under $1000

[bronze axle]

I don't understand what that means.

[pearl elk]

and who here has owned only 1 Apple phone?

or do you buy a new one when they come out 🙂

[zinc matrix]

$565.30 for 64GB version, that's with VAT included

[plucky pagoda]

I'm going to go make some pot stickers and orange beef before the kids start sharpening their knives.

[pearl elk]

so yes people regularly spend thousands on phones from a manufacturer

[bronze axle]

You're making a lot of assumptions here, Mons.

[pearl elk]

and youre being petty

[bronze axle]

How am I being petty?

[fathom wadi]

@pearl elk never owned one. The wife did until the screen broke and they wanted £250 to replace it.

[plucky pagoda]

I spent under $300 to dev on mac and ios.

[pearl elk]

Ive spent atleast $3000 on Samsung phones over 5yrs

so yes people do it

[plucky pagoda]

$200 used macbook on Amazon

[pearl elk]

and Im proof

[fathom wadi]

I can repair phone screens. The iPhone screen is glued down so when you try remove it, it just breaks. You can soften it with a hairdryer but it still causes breakage.

[pearl elk]

my parents before they swapped to Samsung would buy ipads and iphones each every 1-2yrs

[plucky pagoda]

use a heat pad or they sell things just for screens with heat plates

[pearl elk]

so yes thousands

[fathom wadi]

yeah I guess there is a professional way to remove it properly but I dont have the gear

[north torrent]

I've had two new 'flagship' smart phones in my life.

The first was the Galaxy S1 because my employer at the time royally screwed up on some paperwork and I ended up with the phone for $60 with none of the contract BS.

The second time was a few months ago when I spent my US stimulus check buying the most expensive Huawei phone I could find just out of spite for the US government.

[fathom wadi]

lol

[bronze axle]

@pearl elk Who was the "you" in your original claim? I'm confused as to who you're claiming is OK with 30% after "spending thousands to enter the walled garden".

[plucky pagoda]

I pay cash for my phones, not usually more than $300 each and for the kids not more than $100. Then use them until they fall apart.

[pearl elk]

We arnt even rich, Im sure Kayne and Kim buy more than thousands worth of Apple, they probably got one of each colour

It wasnt you @bronze axle

[fathom wadi]

to be fair though. Apple do sell the best cheese graters.

[bronze axle]

OK.

[light spruce]

And I'm completely sure that none of that was remotely relevant

[bronze axle]

Thanks for clarifying.

[pearl elk]

It was the person who said they are a consumer who likes the walled garden

[fathom wadi]

I've noticed a few ppl say that recently

[bronze axle]

Well, I buy iPhones and I like the walled garden, too (for the most part).

[pearl elk]

Im sure you really like Epic too

[fathom wadi]

there is something to be said about a contained ecosystem, but its not for me.

[plucky pagoda]

That was me, and as I said as a consumer you don't see the 30%

[pearl elk]

but aye cant have everything so Walled Garden or Epic

[bronze axle]

🤔

[pearl elk]

Apple made you choose not me 🙂

[north torrent]

Living in China almost everything relies on your cellphone... Can't get anything really without a cellphone. That goes double when you are a foreigner.

So I finally just got tired of my old phones being slow at all the most inconvenient times and bought the most expensive phone they had... Now I can order pizza without problems...

[plucky pagoda]

time to make some tasty stir fry and pot stickers. Have a good day everyone.

[fathom wadi]

The Marketplace, back when it was vigorously tested and fairly exhaustive to get something on there. That was a nice walled garden approach, unlike now with the precarious nature of what you buy :p

[zinc matrix]

@north torrent sounds like a nightmare as someone who wants to go to a more basic phone

[plucky pagoda]

I'm leaving before I go on a rant about the market place.

[fathom wadi]

😄 I knew that would trigger you Mike :p

[zinc matrix]

Mostly to more easily avoid more mature content

[north torrent]

China is a nightmare in a lot of ways. But it is pretty awesome in a lot of ways too.

[zinc matrix]

And for simplicity

[north torrent]

But if your phone isn't working here you can't even buy a bottle of water at the 7/11 or take a taxi or anything.

Can't order food off you PC.

[fathom wadi]

@north torrent The whole world can be a nightmare no matter where you live really. Question really is what are you willing to put up with? I'd be organ harvested in minutes in China with my big mouth :p

[north torrent]

Can't use a bank card.

Not as a foreigner you wouldn't.

[fathom wadi]

true I'd have some diplomatic value

[north torrent]

They would just kick you out and make an example of you.

[pearl elk]

Honestly my parents left Apple cuz they were too forceful with the music library, it got too much so now they have Samsung and Spotify instead

[north torrent]

They are quick to kick people out.

[fathom wadi]

Honestly if I were in China, I'd stfu a lot more. The entire might of the US military doesn't scare me, but China does.

[bronze axle]

@pearl elk Are you referring to the U2 free album incident?

[north torrent]

There is maybe a 50/50 chance someplace will accept cash. They usually aren't happy about it.

[zinc matrix]

They may apparently hate me there since I'm born from the Philippines, and even though I don't have very good privacy practices I still wouldn't trust the system

[pearl elk]

no it was the whole Apple Music thing

they were quite happy with iTunes just how it was

[fathom wadi]

Apple have been taking 30% royalties on a song I wrote and never earned a penny from. Sucks. 😄

[bronze axle]

But you said they left for Spotify, which is another streaming service.

[pearl elk]

yes but Apple screwed up their library

[bronze axle]

Oh that sucks. What happened?

[north torrent]

I don't think anyone here is relevant enough for China to notice you... Just saying...

[pearl elk]

it all went streaming and became unmanagable, my mum actually went back to CDs for the most part now

[zinc matrix]

cds 👌👌👌

Downloads without drm 👌👌👌

[bronze axle]

Oh, so Spotify didn't really take then. CDs to the rescue, I guess. 😅

[north torrent]

You can't buy food if you can't charge your phone, Mr. Ponkkis.

[pearl elk]

the iPhones at the time had crappy cameras too, the Samsung screens and camera on the S7 really appealed to em

[north torrent]

But as long as your battery still has a charge society can keep on ticking.

[zinc matrix]

China is just really insistent on surveillance in general, to impose a will upon its people

[pearl elk]

but yeah if you are gonna swap to a streaming service dont delete crap off peoples HDDs without their permission

[north torrent]

So with my phone that means I have about 48 hours of no electricity before I can no longer function in society.

[pearl elk]

but thats how these big tech companies operate, its not your hardware even if you own it 100%

[zinc matrix]

People find it too convenient to stream rather than keep

And fuck around with file managers

[pearl elk]

its true, I dont use my MP3 collection anymore but not everyone is tech savvy and some songs arnt easy to find on streaming services. Like the ones older people like

[north torrent]

I have about 3tb of movies and tv shows and documentaries filed away in my library. I avoid streaming, requires you to always have a good internet signal.

[pearl elk]

I have alot of songs in my MP3 collection I cant find online even I tried, so I make that sacrifice but some people arnt willing

Apple had no consideration for them

[zinc matrix]

Most songs I download I don't want wiped off by irate rightsholders

[north torrent]

I have a large number of movies and shows that aren't available on any major streaming platform.

And if I go live somewhere with bad internet, I have at least 4 years of entertainment before I get bored.

[pearl elk]

rightsholders is correct, many of the artists dont even see those royalties

[north torrent]

I used to not have internet at my apartment.

[bronze axle]

If artists don't see royalties from streaming services, it's because their label or distributor is screwing them.

Which does happen.

[pearl elk]

my mum had converted alot of CDs but Apple was having none of it

[fathom wadi]

@pearl elk spotify isn't much better. I have to connect to the internet if I haven't listened to my music for a while otherwise it won't play. Even if I still have an active sub. I mean, who came up with that idea? Seems like a pointless copy protection system.

[zinc matrix]

@fathom wadi yup, that also sucks

[pearl elk]

Spotify wont screw with your music collection how Apple Music screwed with my Mums though

It doesnt need to run your entire catalog, its happy to be an optional extra

Apple HAS to be the ONE AND ONLY

[tame dawn]

You don't need activate internet connection for Amazon Prime

It caches music to your hard disk

[fathom wadi]

My original beef with iphones and ipods was they make it difficult to manage your music. I couldn't just plug in a USB and drop the files in, I had to go through their app. Which would conveniently delete all your music if you tried to do anything with your file system.

[tame dawn]

Same on your phone

[pearl elk]

Spotify caches too if you tell it to, it'll cache your liked songs

[tame dawn]

P sure Spotify does the same thing, but only on mobile, not on PC

[bronze axle]

Spotify caches whether you tell it to or not.

[pearl elk]

nope PC and Mobile it does it

[tame dawn]

It will need to phone home once a week or so I imagine though to check your subscription status

[fathom wadi]

@pearl elk even the cached ones require an internet update to reactiveate after some time 😦

[bronze axle]

Yeah there's like a 30-day check or something like that.

[fathom wadi]

its less than that now. Happens to me at least once a week

[pearl elk]

yeah DRM sucks, could be why my mum just uses CDs so she doesnt have to screw around

[bronze axle]

I don't see that as a problem. I'm never going to go 30 days without connecting to the internet.

[fathom wadi]

I only have a phone for incoming calls. So I dont have any credit or internet on it. But I use it as my mp3 player so I have to make sure I connect before I leave the house.

[zinc matrix]

Fuck DRM, fuck neoliberalism, fuck this whole system.

[tame dawn]

Lol, internet access in first world countries is practically a citizen's right

[pearl elk]

Apple could have been more permissive though especially if they wanted to appeal to audio lovers, thats kinda what the iPod was all about

[bronze axle]

But it does feel wrong when it happens to you, I get that. You downloaded something for offline listening, so it's like... even if it doesn't actually cause a problem, it feels a little gross.

[tame dawn]

And most of these services are way better value as a consumer than buying individual CDs, or buying tracks from iTunes

[north torrent]

I guess I still live in the early 2000s and have a computer full of .mp3 files...

[fathom wadi]

the funny thing is I have one of my songs thats on spotify on my list, but I have to activate it if I want to listen to it. Thank god I don't own my music. 😄

[bronze axle]

I have a love/hate relationship with the world of cloud-based entertainment. In some cases - like Spotify - I enjoy the convenience greatly. On the other hand, if I like a book or a movie, I buy a physical copy.

[pearl elk]

I like streaming but rural Australia isnt first world 🙂

[zinc matrix]

So do I except it's not the early 2000s, but all of the 2000s.

[north torrent]

I plug my phone into my computer with a usb cable and load .mp3 files onto the phone and then play them with the phones media player...

[zinc matrix]

I like more obscure stuff. I don't want them gone, ever.

[fathom wadi]

same usually but the wife bought a family spotify so I thought why not

[bronze axle]

The family and couples plans are a good deal.

[fathom wadi]

aye

[pearl elk]

Apple doesnt care though, they'll just do their thing. See Spotify is an additional app, something you choose and thats what it all comes down to

[north torrent]

Even with YouTube videos I generally download them to my computer...

[bronze axle]

I have no problem choosing not to use Apple Music.

[pearl elk]

Consumer choice is very important

[zinc matrix]

I fear only streaming services will be available or even legal

[pearl elk]

Part of the reason MS gone done is they were forcing people to use their browser

[north torrent]

Being legal has never been much of a concern of mine...

[pearl elk]

Now Windows lets you choose most of your apps, you can choose not to use defender but something else

[zinc matrix]

I can't defend for myself legally

[pearl elk]

but thats on PC, on console its abit different, mobile is closer to the console market so it'll be interesting to see if being a hardware vendor actually gives you any rights being simply a software vendor doesnt

[bronze axle]

@zinc matrix I hear ya. We're not that far off from a future where very, very few people own any of their entertainment products. And if that continues to be normalized, eventually we may reach the state you fear: where it's not just uncommon, but misunderstood and even frowned upon.

Thankfully, it will probably take decades to evolve to the point where people are actively punished for it, but it's not outside the realm of possibility. Not in the slightest.

[pearl elk]

For your own security let us own you... Yup totally not 1984 🙂

[zinc matrix]

Fucking capitalism and big companies are to blame. They're too powerful

[bronze axle]

Capitalism is not the problem.

[pearl elk]

Greed is

If Apple claim not charging 30% will hurt them financially I'll literally piss myself laughing

[north torrent]

Well, I will have my pirate library that I keep safely tucked away for when I need it.

[zinc matrix]

I still think capitalism is a problem - make a profit or you don't deserve to exist

[bronze axle]

Capitalism, like any other good thing, can be abused. I think it's important not to conflate all of capitalism with bad actors who take advantage of the system for nefarious gains.

[pearl elk]

If Apple has rights to control what you can access on your phone, do they also have the right to unlock it for authorities?

I mean why not, it could be their policy right

Its their phone 🙂

[zinc matrix]

I'll discuss later, not sure I'm in the mood to argue for now.

[fathom wadi]

hey.... the customer's right to privacy is of utmost importance to Apple. That data is worth a lot to them on the data market :p

[pearl elk]

its okay its an argument of adhesion

you just have to walk past it and youre part of it 😉

[fathom wadi]

Best real name I've seen on Facebook in years.

[pearl elk]

Honestly the Apple owners seem fine with not playing Epic games so maybe I should just shut it, Im on Google so thats the only case relevant to me

[fathom wadi]

I really have no vested interest beyond the fate of other devs. I ain't ever going on Apple store out of my own morality

[pearl elk]

I just wanted to see everyone get cheaper games, call me selfish

[north torrent]

Someone needs to break this ridiculous 30% idea that everyone seems to think they have a right to.

[fathom wadi]

its only ridiculous if you haven't had a publisher pre-steam

[pearl elk]

its only ridiculous if youre on the receiving end

up your game, join the golden boys club

[fathom wadi]

The level of network integration and steam utilities alongside the size of the potential market makes it acceptible to me. But like everyone else, I'd obviously bump the price to compensate. I think of that as cost of business tho.

[pearl elk]

We should remove 30% of the posts in lounge to show much it actually is 😛

[fathom wadi]

@zinc matrix works fine for me. what card you got?

[north torrent]

Back in the day when your game would actually be seen on Steam it was worth it. Now you are paying 30% of basically nothing.

[fathom wadi]

it meant more back then for sure. These days you need to boost it externally.

[pearl elk]

but you get the $100 back

[north torrent]

Why should I pay them 30% when I have to boost it externally myself?

[fathom wadi]

@zinc matrix Blender supports the latest opengl and some nvidia cards don't have it. Hence why I asked. Presumably you have better than a 1050 right?

[pearl elk]

Id rather give 30% to blender

[north torrent]

If I am going to market my game myself then I will keep my money and not give it to you for not doing a job.

[tame dawn]

@pearl elk Apple can't unlock the phone, even if they wanted to -- That's a large point of contention

[fathom wadi]

@zinc matrix oh I dunno about that

[tame dawn]

If a device is properly encrypted it cannot be decrypted without the original key. Even the manufacturer can't do it

[pearl elk]

I dunno about that, I seen sculpts which get past the faceID quick smart 🙂

[tame dawn]

FaceID is not claimed to be secure

[fathom wadi]

Yes they could if they wanted to.

[tame dawn]

Unlock != Decrypt

[pearl elk]

Tales from Decrypt

[fathom wadi]

decryption is nothing these days tho. Just rent a quantum computer and crack it no time.

[tame dawn]

No

lol

[mossy nexus]

we already have

[tame dawn]

The entire reason that encryption works is because it would take years upon years to crack with brute force

[mossy nexus]

it took one look at humanity and switched itself off

[fathom wadi]

@tame dawn its not a one-time pad. Its crackable.

[pearl elk]

I usually just beat my phone over the head with a 12" GPU and it tells me everything I want to know

[tame dawn]

If you encrypt something with 256 bits then you are not cracking that, it would take thousands of years to brute force it

[mossy nexus]

^

[tame dawn]

2 to the power of 256 is a colossally huge number

[pearl elk]

this is why we have the function kapow

[fathom wadi]

I read different when using quantum encryption but maybe what I read was wrong, you can't tell these days.

[tame dawn]

And we already know that's the case as well, because the point being made above is whether or not Apple would descrypt if the government told them to

When Apple said we can't the government said ok give us a backdoor

because the old folks don't seem to understand that giving them a backdoor = giving everyone one

they freely admit that it is, at this moment in time, impossible to break something like true 256bit encryption

if it was feasible why would they be trying to backhand them into giving them backdoor access >_>

if you use something like FaceID then yea your device isn't secure

[fathom wadi]

https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/05/30/65724/how-a-quantum-computer-could-break-2048-bit-rsa-encryption-in-8-hours/

[foggy path]

to make it look like they don't have alien tech from Area 51 that could crack it

duh.

[tame dawn]

because the key itself isn't being held securely

[pearl elk]

So what youre telling me is Apple phones are secure and it has nothing to do with what software is installed

Wow Epic might have a case 😛

[tame dawn]

if you put malware on your phone (difficult on Apple phones) then it is no longer secure

[fathom wadi]

Apple are malware to children who work in cobalt mines.

[tame dawn]

There's a reason in the UK for example we have things like the RIPA law

which allows police to basically clone the entire phone

because they can't break through the passcodes before battery fails, and fully encrypts

so they just clone the entire thing to perpetually leave it turned on

to buy time whilst they try and legally compel the owner to hand over codes

it's also Law in the UK that once police seize your device, you must turn over the passcodes

we don't have a 5th amendment that you could plead and say nope

[foggy path]

What's the punishment for not doing it?

[pearl elk]

or you could just trick someone into giving you their thumbprint

[tame dawn]

same sentence as the crime you're accused of

typically

[foggy path]

lol nice

don't want the coppers to see your dick pics

[tame dawn]

i.e. police know they can't break encryption

[foggy path]

better go to jail

[tame dawn]

so your choices are to give them the encryption key or go to prison

[pearl elk]

I use my knob to unlock my phone, totes secure

[tame dawn]

Apple and Google also basically told the UK government 'lol no' when they tried to stupidly ask them for a backdoor

which is why the RIPA law was brought in

[light spruce]

Yeah, I really love the idea of doing law enforcement's job for them

[tame dawn]

You can argue that it's pretty invasive for people to be able to force you to incriminate yourself but usually a court has to grant the warrant for RIPA first

[foggy path]

@pearl elk if you drew a little face on it, could you use it for FaceID 🤔

[tame dawn]

and it can only be used for things like suspected terrorism

not for lesser crimes like drug dealing

[fathom wadi]

@pearl elk I tried to use my knob to unlock my phone, but I accidentally activated my camera and now im on the sex offenders register. Only joking. I got away with it.

[pearl elk]

@foggy path I made a little hat with a beard 😉

[tame dawn]

just use a 5 digit passcode lol

that's 99,000 combinations and the phones will wipe themselves after 30 incorrect

99,999*

[pearl elk]

Apple is like yup phones secure, FB is just like trololol Cambridge Analytica

[tame dawn]

actually I guess 100,000 with 0000

[fathom wadi]

lol

https://twitter.com/Sketchfab/status/1294740766896656386?s=20 this needs to be my new gaming rig.

Sketchfab (@Sketchfab)

New staff pick: Sci-fi Wayfinder Unit by Glennosaurus. Check it out in #3D, #AR or #VR: https://t.co/4A7V8W5FYt

#planet #hologram #seat #electronic #machine #star #navigation #wires #holograms #sci_fi #futuristic https://t.co/9yr0ZC6VK4

▶ Play video

Twitter

[pearl elk]

US tech companies are actually quite bad at security, I dunno why, just bigger targets I guess

kinda glad I didnt put my pics on icloud otherwise my sexy dadbod would be all over the web

[fathom wadi]

I just dont take pics of myself really. I have the one where I met Dweezil Zappa and half a face in my profile, but I don't like photos of myself.

I had to take a picture once when I was at an Expo in London, like some kind of work photo, and I looked stupid in a shirt and tie.

[light spruce]

Maybe you should learn how to dress.

[pearl elk]

I had to get a macro lense hehehe

its like enhance damnnit

[fathom wadi]

I dress in Pink Floyd and Frank Zappa tshirts + jeans or camo shorts. I dress like rock n roll baby.

[pearl elk]

what no Dr Martins?

[fathom wadi]

naah dropped them when I was 20 for german para boots

[pearl elk]

ahh the good shit, no blisters

[fathom wadi]

yeah and some dead krauts name in them 😄

[pearl elk]

I had to get my skinhead tattoos removed so I could find work

[fathom wadi]

oof

im lucky I got out of that scene early or I might have ended up tatted

[pearl elk]

Im kidding ofcoarse 🙂

[fathom wadi]

im not. I literally hung with racists at one point.

[pearl elk]

they tried recruiting me back in the 90s

I was listenin to rap by that stage so I was like wtf you on man

[fathom wadi]

I was talking to the leader of the local National Front once. He tried to give me this spiel about immigrants and everything he said was utter fucking trashtalk. So I tried to question him and he got shitty with me. Thats when I realised, these people are too stupid to be right 😄

[pearl elk]

Australia is pretty bad for the anti-immigrant stuff lately, its not even skinheads its just regular folk

[fathom wadi]

back in the day, Romper Stomper was classic viewing for us. It feels so dirty now. Like I can't believe I was duped that hard.

[pearl elk]

Its a great movie though like American History X

[fathom wadi]

yeah in its way

yeah stereotypical stuff really. Not very well thought out either.

[pearl elk]

Junglist kinda small?

[fathom wadi]

a lot of it stemmed from the music, beer and influence from previous generations. I mean, the NF at the time I had that argument was nothing. Combat 18 and the rest were on the way out and new ones coming up.

[light spruce]

they're going to shit in your toilets

you can't let them do that

[fathom wadi]

one the best memes for anti-racist stuff has to be Schroedinger's Immigrant.

[pearl elk]

you would think Covid woulda made people realise how much of the population travels for work, not just to the nearest city but all over the world

They'll complain about farmers using backpackers all the while miners are shipping out to africa even under lockdowns

[fathom wadi]

I travel all the way from my bed to my front room via the coffee.

[pearl elk]

Nationalism seems so silly to me tbh, I mean I love my country but at the same time all these little differences are kinda pathetic. Like cant we just get past it and be one planet

No more walled gardens, the world is an open platform 🙂

[fathom wadi]

I have no nationalism in me at all. It's too dangerous and let's face it.... the government doesn't deserve the credit.

[pearl elk]

Well these days its more private business based nationalism not state based

Its in businesses best interest to stop competition by using lobbying power to change the rules to suit them

cant compete in the global market, no worries, nationalism 🙂

[pearl compass]

sounds great! which capitalist corp do I throw in with so I can fund their private 10+ million man army that will protect me?

[fathom wadi]

McDonalds. They have a fleet of submarines.

[pearl elk]

Remington, they have the ammo 🙂

[light spruce]

no one will protect you

[fathom wadi]

as the saying goes.... "All for one, and each one for himself !"

[pearl elk]

Im just glad Im not a TikTok user

boy these kiddos getting screwed this month

[fathom wadi]

yeah I hear that. All those people building up social media careers from utterly pointless and crap videos now have to go get a job. This life man... it's too hard.

[pearl elk]

How dare they make money, only old men are allowed to have money

burn it to the ground, all of it

[fathom wadi]

money is racist. Bitcoin is the new whiphand.

You ever say something silly then read it back and think "it's not actually"

[pearl elk]

bitcoin... banned

youngsters arnt allowed to have money, I told you

30% young persons tax

only silver beards are allowed to collect

Actually the topic of young people

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/aug/15/sydneys-star-casino-fined-90000-after-12-year-old-girl-caught-gambling

Who needs lootcrates when you have mum and dad 🙂

[light spruce]

I'm just going to keep taking drugs until this is tolerable

[pearl elk]

You mean you didnt try that already?

Its never enough, you either end up dead or drugging yourself straight

[fathom wadi]

not all of em :p

[pearl elk]

this is basically a platform for cheerleaders is it

[fathom wadi]

yeah my levothyroxine tends to keep me alive and all.

[pearl elk]

I thought nerds were cool but obviously not anymore

https://tenor.com/view/nope-mark-zuckerberg-sips-water-drinking-water-gif-11840753

[fathom wadi]

nerds were never cool. Geeks were cool. But as I always said, I worked hard to be a geek. Nerds are born, geeks work to be one.

[light spruce]

I would not save that man's life.

Rolling Rock and Red Bull seems like it would be an awful combination.

[fathom wadi]

I'd save his life. Can you imagine the present he would give you after? Like a paedo island or something.

[pearl elk]

Im gonna make a platform for old men

it'll be a refuge away from all these horrible attractive young people

[fathom wadi]

thats the worst thing about the modern era. All this cosplay and shit. Makes an old man cry.

[light spruce]

old men only, you say

[pearl elk]

we need stamps which say jailbait

just walk around blindfolded

[light spruce]

this is one of the ads I have saved in my "Questionable Interballs" screenshot folder

[pearl elk]

lol Us Old men, perfect

[fathom wadi]

How racist

[light spruce]

I'm really just taken with this future "credit" currency they seem to be using.

[fathom wadi]

thats a removal of 5 social credits for questioning the immortal ruler of our lands

[light spruce]

If I try really hard, I wonder if I could make Not Free Charge! a catchphrase

[fathom wadi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rVQGT01Kzg

[pearl elk]

I still dont know how the sea shells work

is it like tide pods?

[fathom wadi]

you don't need to know. Cocteau's plan did not include explanations. You have been fined 1 credit

[light spruce]

It's spelled Seychelles

[fathom wadi]

thats a long way to go to wipe your arse.

[pearl elk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5g_t6FAYLY

[fathom wadi]

if you are in need of something funny to watch, I rewatched Adam Sandler's netflix special "100% fresh". Genuinely funny

[pearl elk]

Ive been meaning to watch more standup on Netflix tbh

I watch the shorts of Netflix is a joke but some of em get cut short

[fathom wadi]

they are pretty good for keeping up with it. Im always looking for good standup

[pearl elk]

There was a tv show I was watching on Boxsets about standup that was pretty funny

[light spruce]

so, I understand you're The Machine

[pearl elk]

The Ghost in the machine

Crashing, thats what the show was called. Kinda odd but funny

has heaps of cameos from other comedians too

[light spruce]

I can't argue with those facts.

[pearl elk]

arguing is all about mental stamina 😛

[fathom wadi]

https://twitter.com/_JamesSharpe_/status/1294740568640086016?s=20

James Sharpe (@_JamesSharpe_)

Here is a technique we used on Gears 5 to store 3D information in a single sample of a 3D texture. I'm keen to push this further as there are potentially a lot of good wins in regards to memory and performance. https://t.co/V7FHpMChQ4

▶ Play video

Twitter

this is cool. I mean, it's like a volumetric texture but a bit more specific.

the processing would be a lot less I guess being it's kept in a 2d plane.

[pearl elk]

Very cool, this is what I like to see when this stuff is actually used in a game

shame about Twitter video res though bleeeh

[light spruce]

shame about twitter being something that exists,really

[pearl elk]

How else am I gonna get Tim to like my posts 😛

[fathom wadi]

yeah I've spoken to lots of celebrities on Twitter where I couldn't any other place really. I like that

[pearl elk]

some just ignore you other times youre some how stuck in a short exchange with big peeps and its like woooooah dude

[fathom wadi]

Yeah I read a lot of Ice-T's stuff and he chats to everyone. it's like he has no job and chats all day shouting at trolls 😄

[light spruce]

whatever that desire is is one of those things that I don't have. Kind of like sentimentality for physical objects.

What I know about Ice-T: He ran a Telesto in Destiny 2.

[pearl elk]

I will admit, Twitter has given me a much better perspective on who some celebrities actually are. With traditional media its all setup questions and you dont get a feel for them on a personal level like you can with social media

He's a bear in BL3

Lance Hendrickson on Facebook is awesome, he manages his own account and always posts scifi shit

even obscure b-grade shit, its awesome! Sometimes its things he's in but alot of the time he's very humble and shouting out others

[fathom wadi]

Lance Reddick is another Lance who does his own twitter. I like to reply to him in Zavala's voice and make up some stupid shit.

[light spruce]

Zavala's not black enough

nor does he play a saxophone

[pearl elk]

Ahh that dude, he's in Horizon too

I liked him in Fringe

[light spruce]

More importantly, he was in 50 Cent: Blood on the Sand

[fathom wadi]

In Zavala voice - "Greetings Guardian, it seems Suraya Hawethorne has a case of the squits. It's time we found the Traveller's TP loot cave. And hurry Guardian, there may be leakage ¬_¬ "

not the best daily quest I did

[light spruce]

if not for that Let's Play, I would never have known about Tony Yayo

[pearl elk]

https://twitter.com/TonyYayo/status/1294274230838874113

Tony Yayo (@TonyYayo)

Thank god for a new day.🙏🏿

Likes

205

Twitter

[fathom wadi]

If not for the Paragon trailer, I might not have known about M83. See, video games are the best shit ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mly3hBQvHtI&t=4s they should make this game. It looks fucking ace

[pearl elk]

What you talkin bout, why make games they dont make money

[light spruce]

The galaxy?

[fathom wadi]

@pearl elk I mean like those rip off games EA makes. Add a mortgage option and a casino for gambling children.

[pearl elk]

Not sure this music really fits tbh

[plucky pagoda]

Sterling thrashed the Avengers game.

[fathom wadi]

Oh man 2 years since they axed Paragon and now I have to play Smite instead. You bastards !

[light spruce]

somewhere, someone probably is gambling using children as the currency

[fathom wadi]

yeah Epstein Island

[pearl elk]

what you talkin about, we bet on baby fights

[fathom wadi]

"I've got two pair"
"You have two sets of twins that cheating"
"ShhhhhH"

[light spruce]

pretty much everyone has said the Avenger's game is a boring bunch of shit

[pearl elk]

bit sad when someone brings a baby to a dog fight though

dogs can choke on such small bones

[plucky pagoda]

Sucks. I was hoping it might be good but haven't seen anything that makes me want to play it.

[fathom wadi]

Never been an Avengers fan myself. I find the writing awful (except some of the last two movies where Thanos did some decent scenes.

[pearl elk]

most people are saying the same, good game ruined by MTX styled bullshite

I actually loved Ultron, the ending wasnt brilliant but just the way the whole thing came about

[light spruce]

No, it sounds like it'd be boring garbage regardless

[pearl elk]

I used to play Avengers arcade back in the day

[plucky pagoda]

I'm tired of procedural generation and mmo fetch hell

I mean I love procedural generation, just not as a replacement for decent game design.

[light spruce]

They were really on point with all of their casting

[pearl elk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-4hzuYulW0

[fathom wadi]

we never had that here, but we did have the 4 player X-Men game. Same thing 😄

[light spruce]

I think I played the port of that and it sucked

[pearl elk]

Its all basically the same game with a different skin lol