unreal compiles slow on 64 thread because of uht being slow and it all waiting on uht one at a time
#lounge
signal citrus
north torrent
Highest LOD as in the lowest poly version. I know that sounds backwards... but that's just how it is.
signal citrus
do they come with lods?
north torrent
Megascans models usually have about 5.
signal citrus
hm nice
north torrent
None of which are particularly low.
rich quiver
to many people trying to download 4.25
north torrent
But like I said, I am just blocking things out and brainstorming.
signal citrus
yeah v4, imma wait for .1
that'll probably be next week or something lol
that 7th preview seemed to run forever
north torrent
Megascans has a 'Definitive Bread Collection' now.
You should check it out.
What's a dining area without some hot, tasty accessories? Get that bread!
Not sure if 20 assets is 'definitive' or not though...
signal citrus
they're good at rocks, breads could be rocky i guess
dawn nest
high resolution caraway seeds
viral vector
@bold fulcrum Sorry if you mind the tag - and if you don't want to answer this, I'm not surprised - but I mean to recall that you said at some point that you don't actually work in gamedev by trade, have I remembered that correctly?
bold fulcrum
That's correct.
rich quiver
there more unreal dev then epic thinks there are 
viral vector
If you don't mind the prodding, what do you do by trade? (obviously be as vague as you want to be)
bold fulcrum
I convert liquids into distance.
viral vector
Oil.
bold fulcrum
Oil. Coffee. Soft drinks.
viral vector
Non-newtonians?
bold fulcrum
Naaah
viral vector
That's a step too far?
bold fulcrum
Yeah. I guess one can add bitter tears of my enemies to a list of liquids I can convert to distance.
plucky pagoda
Somethings are simply infinite.
mild root
I don't get it, there is notification, but I can't see where it is
marked as read everything
oh
I muted news channel
bronze axle
Did you mark the entire server as read?
mild root
yes, news were muted, there is everyone mention
bronze axle
Right-click server icon → Mark as Read
bronze axle
OK.
plucky pagoda
Why does this button need to be in a prominent place on a mouse? Shouldn't it be indisde the battery compartment or something and definiely not adjacent to a button you're likely to use often?
mild root
ideally it should be on the mouse bottom, and pushed into the mouse body
zinc matrix
i need a webcam motion detection software.
zinc matrix
@plucky pagoda does it show you if someone has disconnected the usb webcam?
plucky pagoda
It would record up until that time, if that's what you're asking
carmine frigate
imma clean my desk, its a bloody mess 😛
zinc matrix
does it show the time?
plucky pagoda
I think you can set it up so that it will save a certain amount of time before the motion was detected.
I think I have mine set to like 1 minute before motion and 1 minute after.
plucky pagoda
They all do that.
zinc matrix
hm
i have one webcam for head tracking and then id have one for security if i would buy another one
omg
ispy doesnt see my ps eye toy camera
plucky pagoda
try connecting to 127.0.0.1
nevermind. I'm not thinking.
I've never used a camera that wasn't networked with it.
plucky pagoda
Did you try advanced?
zinc matrix
where is there tot try?
plucky pagoda
rich quiver
zinc matrix
ya and what should i try t here?
plucky pagoda
I have no idea.
zinc matrix
lol
plucky pagoda
anybody use a trackball instead of a normal mouse?
north torrent
Not in a decade.
plucky pagoda
I need a new mouse thinking of getting the mx trackball
zinc matrix
hm
median wraith
no perma free this month ?
bronze axle
Nope.
tulip orbit
need moar!
tulip orbit
make anythign with it?
plucky pagoda
wow source setup is running fast today. really surprised it's maxing my connection.
"New: Added a BlueprintFileUtils plugin to expose file system operations to blueprint. "
signal citrus
rotund tundra
^^ i just launched 4.25 to check out what the bp file system ops are
plucky pagoda
Anybody using vs2019 16.5.0 to build from source?
signal citrus
Suppose every language deserves to be able to accidentally delete important things anywhere
plucky pagoda
There were commits in 4.25 that are supposed to fix all the errors but I'm not sure I really want to try switching back yet. 2017 seems to have less issues with most plugins too.
rotund tundra
i get an error on editor launch 😦
signal citrus
2019 all the way
quiet narwhal
File utils is great but... not able to read or write files isnt that useful lol
plucky pagoda
what?
signal citrus
the stuff 2017 didn't complain about is nightmare material
plucky pagoda
that's most of the point. I didn't know it didn't have that
quiet narwhal
signal citrus
Get User Directory -> Delete Directory
plucky pagoda
still useful, but slightly less excited
signal citrus
I'd be impressed if they had a file stream too
plucky pagoda
The questions on here and elsewhere would be a nightmare though
quiet narwhal
yep I was hoping for file stream as well, honestly no idea why its not there
signal citrus
option to just read all lines or entire thing as string would be nice
and write
in absence of a stream i mean
but working with strings in blueprints is not fun
quiet narwhal
just being able to write string data out to a file and read it back in would be huge. Right now its a pain to make like in editor editor stuffs without that in pure BP
signal citrus
yar
i have no idea if theres anything like object notation already, but that would make string handling a lot easier
quiet narwhal
I dunno just weird its still not built in
plucky pagoda
I guess I should install 2019 before building then? I've always had issues with VS using the wrong libraries for one thing or another whenever I have both 2019 and 2017 installed.
quiet narwhal
there is json support built in sorta
signal citrus
sorta?
quiet narwhal
the pixel streaming plugin uses a json parser node for receiving data from the server
signal citrus
besides datasmith, this is the only plugin i couldn't get to compile at cpp17, and it has a secret json implementation in it?
quiet narwhal
yeah and you can also use another node to make a json string as well but its meh
they call it a descriptor string but its json
signal citrus
ah, sounds like valve key value pairs
quiet narwhal
it is
signal citrus
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/KeyValues"ParentKey1" { "ValueKey1" "1" "ParentKey2" { ... } }
quiet narwhal
ah nah it uses normal json, : for separators
quiet narwhal
the sucky part is you cant just use it in normal code since it uses a pixel streamer input component in order to target to run but all it does it process strings
signal citrus
how many json plugins are there?
quiet narwhal
but I guess that is what plugins are for!
carmine frigate
varest is pretty good
quiet narwhal
I dunno but you could probably just steam the code from the PS plugin and make your own lol
carmine frigate
and free
quiet narwhal
yep I used varest for a few projects, works well
and I mean this exists in engine https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/API/Runtime/Json/Dom/FJsonObject/index.html
plucky pagoda
VaRest has a json parser in it?
signal citrus
yeah, i've used that matheww, honestly not a huge fan of it
plucky pagoda
Ah, yeah I see it in the description.
signal citrus
i prefer json streamed. parsing it jsut to throw it into a dictionary to be searched is too much for me
quiet narwhal
I do wonder why the existing json stuff is not exposed
signal citrus
would guess the tsharedptr use
but i mean FKey is just a hidden tsharedptr
so these should be safe to hide in structs marked like fkey is
does imply a lot of overhead with copying values
loud orbit
anyone wanna vc?
rotund tundra
is there any way to get data out of unreal with bps?
carmine frigate
yea varest 😛
rotund tundra
all this editor scripting and i can't find a way to get stuff in/out
carmine frigate
voip
rotund tundra
i've exposed file read/write to bp in the past but I have one project where i'm looking for bp only solution (without 3rd party plugins)
carmine frigate
a plugin with bp nodes is also a bp only solution?
rotund tundra
plugin means more support
quiet narwhal
about all you could do is use data assets and use those as holders for your data in your BP only situation
rotund tundra
i just want to make it and forget it, and the client can just upgrade versions witout much issue
quiet narwhal
but yeah its annoying you cant just write files arbitrarily with stuff
rotund tundra
there's also fill data table from json string i could use if only i could automate export data table from bp somehow
quiet narwhal
you can call that from inside your BP and just make your own json string by hand if needed
fathom wadi
https://twitter.com/HoussineMehnik/status/1257762472196476929?s=20 It's a New World Order now folks.
fathom wadi
One step ahead of the game. Unlike me who is always one step behind 😄
proud pier
Don't I know it
fathom wadi
I did all that stuff in C++ and never really thought to expose any of it. I think I would still go for a C++ option myself but that's because I've grinded it out in code now so may as well. But for anyone getting into DPCs, this is gold.
it was a freaking nightmare I can tell you
When I did it, the lack of information was overwhelming. I had 1 site for info, the UE4 site info was outdated and I spent all my time in the source looking at examples that made literally no sense.
http://kantandev.com/articles/details-panel-customization this was my saviour
gleaming hill
Got accepted as a switch dev. Not sure if thats hard or not but took quite a while!
fathom wadi
First job, develop thumbsticks that don't drift. GG
gleaming hill
Oh I mean that I can make switch games with UE4
fathom wadi
Aye I was just riffing 🙂
gleaming hill
Hehe
I've had no prob with their thumbsticks though 🤔
Did I just not notice an issue?
bold fulcrum
nop
lucid walrus
Also... light layers... GET WITH IT ALREADY UNREAL! 😛
bold fulcrum
But tis bout artizts, not thy engine!
lucid walrus
4.25 is 70gb now??? wasn't 4.24 around 40 or did I dream that?
quiet narwhal
if you upgraded in place, use the repair option or go into the options and remove something like starter content and it will clean up the extra files. You can add starter content back after it cleans up
lucid walrus
repair... you mean verify? also... where are the options?
quiet narwhal
yes verify, sorry I thought it used to be called repair lol. and the options are right above that
all I did was uncheck starter content, hit apply so it would clean up, then went back in and added them back
lucid walrus
thanks for the tip... trying now!
fathom wadi
remember when installing UE4 only took a 4gb dependency download? Pepperidge Farm remembers
fathom wadi
I think I just lost 10 IQ points reading that.
alpine fern
the reasoning is pretty 
but I agree that main branch just sounds nicer lol
fathom wadi
Im gonna call mine "Alpha branch" and then "beta" and then "cuck"
ancient hornet
please no, it'll break a lot of my scripts and habits XD
fathom wadi
Do they presume because we call them master branches that we are all enslavers? I ask because these twats use Apple phones a lot of the time and they use child labour.
anyway... ducking out before this gets my comedy brain working overtime.
(note I never said funny comedy)
ancient hornet
no they are called master because they are masterpieces!
my code at least is 😮
(the little I write 😄 )
alpine fern
no we can't use that terminology anymore, you should call them mainpieces
rotund tundra
.. and what does 'main' imply, that other branches are lesser, subs, .. ?
bronze axle
More small UI design updates in 4.25. Variable type icons finally look good on high DPI displays! 😍
That's switching between 4.24 (pixelated) and 4.25 (clean, crisp, vibrant).
rich quiver
proud pier
Wonder if that's paid promo spot or not
signal citrus
I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't
signal citrus
Don't think there are other engines out there that have such usage by the big studios
proud pier
Ummm, hmm
I wonder if that's true
Depends on your definition of big
I mean, one game will break that... Star Citizen
But yeah, most use in-house engines and for good reasons
signal citrus
That is a bold statement 😄
Idk if they are still in battle with crytek legally or not
But them being accused of lying of switching to lumberyard don't look good
on other thing I wouldn't even say most use in-house engines anymore necessarily
proud pier
Oh?
Defend that statement please
I mean, I could pull up any AAA game out there and I would say 99% aren't using commercial game engines
signal citrus
Trying to think of games that use in-house engines
I think idtech qualifies as in house right?
proud pier
Aye
signal citrus
yeah so theres bethesda
proud pier
They use their own?
proud pier
on other thing I wouldn't even say most use in-house engines anymore necessarily
Are you saying that most do?
Or that they don't?
Because I thought you meant that most don't use in-house.
signal citrus
I'm saying its difficult to think of ones that do
signal citrus
Hmmmm I guess idk, i'm not thinking of F2P really but yeah
signal citrus
Frostbite yeah
signal citrus
but does in-publisher count as in-house?
proud pier
Bungie... most of it is in-house
But they started to use UE4 for random weird UI things
proud pier
Capcom in-house AFAIK
signal citrus
ye they are
proud pier
CCP in house
I dont know man... so many AAA studios out there
It's easier to find the ones that aren't 100%
Like Namco now
signal citrus
namco has been ue4 for awhile though
proud pier
But, you never know if this is an experiment.
signal citrus
then theres square
signal citrus
believe they said something along the lines of not wanting to make another engine again
signal citrus
what big game uses unity?
proud pier
AFAIK Super Mario Run was on Unity
all the GO games like Hitman GO
Hearthstone used Unity
So that's Blizzard
And a pretty big deal
But that's just one game for them
signal citrus
its a good point but i mean big like, cinematic / not on the phone
signal citrus
i don't think there are any big publishers pushing unity outside of mobile right?
proud pier
But yeah, we've been seeing some AAA using random big commercial engines to see if they can cut dev costs.
I don't know about that honestly.
But to say that they chose Unity over UE4 for Mobile is telling in and of itself, if you think about it
signal citrus
not really when you consider the developer market for mobile being so lopsided
unity makes their money from developers not game sales, its in their interest to really focus on the mobile end.
i don't doubt that they make it very easy to work on these platforms
think your right though, in-house is still pretty active but would say its not like the 2000s anymore
north torrent
I don't think you can call Frostbite as 'in house' for every single company under the EA umbrella. That's just way too broad of usage for the term.
signal citrus
well, you could though
bronze axle
If those studios under EA get free access to the engine because of their relationship, I think it's still fair to call that in-house.
north torrent
But a company like Dice is a different entity than say Bioware.
signal citrus
I was more thinking of games that make their own engine for their game tbh, but i think its fair to qualify frostbite as in-house to ea.
there are differences between companies owned by a parent company i guess though yeah
north torrent
A company like Bioware gets 'stuck' using Frostbite for a game that isn't really fitting for Frostbite 'Anthem' because EA has monetary benefits from said deal.
Seems against the spirit of 'own custom engine' if you ask me.
No real different than when my boss made us move from Unreal 3 to Unity.
If anything, using Frostbite sounds more like a leash, or a noose, than anything else.
If you received a stimulus check and you are dead, you are not supposed to keep it. You should return the payment.
soft night
Frostbite engine is get work on and have improved so bioware is making anthem better
north torrent
Too little too late though.
north torrent
Somehow the Substance Launcher got deleted from my computer...
I just used it 2 days ago...
fathom wadi
All style, no substance then.
north torrent
Quixel has more YouTube subscribers than Substance... Surprising.
fathom wadi
more people using UE4 for free assets I guess
I dont even use Substance. Being that I code mostly, it's never been in my list of software to buy. But I love seeing the results
north torrent
I decided to make a YouTube account for just game design subscriptions.
Substance is such a standard across industries it surprises me that it doesn't have more subscribers in comparison.
Any good Unreal channels I should subscribe to?
fathom wadi
no
north torrent
Didn't think so.
fathom wadi
The only one is Mathew's that I would even trust. Most of the time I see lots of mistakes, bad form or really bad presentation
A couple of my old haunts have done dead now. TeslaDev and Tefel are probably employed now. Tom Looman's good stuff is all paid stuff on Udemy. You find nuggets of info everywhere but there is no consistent channel I goto other than Mathew's
north torrent
I am adding a lot of this stuff just for news from the software companies and such.
fathom wadi
I might start doing stuff for Youtube when my internet gets upgraded. I dunno though, if it doesn't make money, what is the point?
I wouldn't mind streaming low stakes slots tbh. The affiliation makes silly money and I get to play slots all day
north torrent
Or I add marketplace people that I like so I will see if that person adds new things to the marketplace or whatever.
fathom wadi
Have you ever done live development with people over your shoulder?
fathom wadi
I used to do webdev with people over my shoulder all the time. Especially nosey clients who wanted to be there when design choices were being made. But with Unreal Engine I spend so much time between google and waiting for compiles or downloads, I'm not sure I could do it.
north torrent
I teach small childs.
north torrent
abstract haven
nice hax
north torrent
I don't know what I am looking at.
plucky pagoda
Whatever game it is I bet you're not even in the que
plucky pagoda
it probably failed and is jsut ticking the timer.
signal citrus
Check for an update
signal citrus
Is it not steam?
rugged storm
okay
signal citrus
Microsoft store is dumb, no auto updates
signal citrus
Seeee
rugged storm
it does auto update
plucky pagoda
I prefer that with games myself. I hate how you have to disable it on each game individually with steam
signal citrus
When it’s open yeah lol
Well I’ve had other games just put me into endless matchmaking like that
rugged storm
i don't know why i have a better time with microsoft store
signal citrus
Due to update needed
rugged storm
my ping is 8-14
but on steam it's around 40-80
and a lot more spikes in ping
@signal citrus thanks for telling me
i'd probably still be waiting another hour
or something
signal citrus
Messed up there’s no in game message to tell you huh
rugged storm
yeah
pop up in the top left corner
just saying an update is available
now it loads
north torrent
I gave a cat a bratwurst.
When I woke up this morning I looked out the window and saw an orange dog sitting next to a toilet.
gleaming hill
Doesn't seem to matter how fast my PC is, after effects crawls along when rendering
Wonder what kind of machines people actually build when they use this each day
ebon onyx
Probably worse than yours, they just let it render on the farm
signal citrus
Threadrippers are like computer labs. Really good with video, quad channel ram. Definitely need to arm them with ram of many computers to get expected performance
ancient ingot
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
elfin zinc
isn't it everything perfect in this video? models, animations, scene, light, textures, everything....
physics, scripts, AI, ...
fathom wadi
https://twitter.com/f00n/status/1258000008667901952?s=20 promoting this because it impressed me.
Twitter
fluid bloom
those long delegate binding lines bother me
median wraith
Well 10k lines of code are managed there
@fathom wadi why this days don't make these in pure 3D ?
alpine fern
ye like obduction or quern, those are much cooler than the old stuff
zinc matrix
are memes allowed
https://i.imgur.com/rGU3D1q.gifv
fathom wadi
@median wraith its nostalgia gaming. The pre-rendered effects were always made in 3d, just pre-rendered. This is made with UE4 I believe (Im not sure on that because I saw it a while ago when he started development and I wasn't in any Unity/Blender groups back then). So chances are it's not pre-rendered out. Which leads to a better fidelity and gives options for dynamic cutscenes
alpine fern
but unreal is able to render this stuff in real time now..
and you can have dynamic real time cut scenes with sequencer
fathom wadi
Sure, like I say this might not be pre-rendered. I don't know enough about it yet, but either way, its the gameplay that matters.
it looks like a lot of it is pre-rendered but then he is trying to replicate Riven/Myst games so he would kind of be inspired to
signal citrus
@lost bison how much memory? 🐏
fathom wadi
Ok... if you haven't seen this game. You should have. https://store.steampowered.com/app/1265820/Fights_in_Tight_Spaces/
stiff crystal
all I see is dark fog (didn't expand to full screen)
what was the point in that nonsense? 😄
bronze axle
I usually make coffee or tea when I read the notes. So much to go through!
pearl elk
Thats a good run down of the features though, the engine is so huge now
Looking forward to these speed improvements though, with Chaos too should be a nice bump over the next few versions 🙂
north torrent
Sound!
pearl elk
all the reverbs
north torrent
I need more reverbs.
I cut my gameplay ideas about sound from my current game, but I will be picking it back up after I finish my current project.
More reverbs will help make a game that you can navigate 100% with sound.
rich quiver
https://twitter.com/LotteMakesStuff/status/1258057607077597184 techland is having internal problems
north torrent
What studio?
rich quiver
techland
rich quiver
Twitter
north torrent
I played Call of Juarez back in 2010. Didn't know they still made those.
north torrent
QixMix
signal citrus
They always use full fat java
north torrent
I'll pass.
signal citrus
https://youtu.be/JS6ys-qnryo even this
rich quiver
there on chrome engine 5
rich quiver
yes
raw rose
I wonder if there's a way to make UE4 so light weight that it could run on a PC from 2005
Like get direct x 8 or 9 working
signal citrus
Always a way
raw rose
Probably too much work, but I like the thought
signal citrus
Windows xp is a weird thing to return to
signal citrus
I bet windows xp x64 is safer
pearl elk
I think they said 32bit support is ending
signal citrus
No one used that but to play Farcry 64bit patch
raw rose
I don't think I will because I already played Crysis
signal citrus
Someone took farcry license and decided it’d be about survival then removed monsters
raw rose
Which I heard was similar enough
rich quiver
ubisoft buy farcry from crytek years ago
signal citrus
Yeah, yeah I just thought it was weird what they did with the franchise
north torrent
They both have Cry...
raw rose
I wonder if the new flowgraph system is released for cryengine
raw rose
It's similar to blueprints
signal citrus
They’ve had something similar for awhile I think but honestly don’t know what it was used for
signal citrus
raw rose
I also heard that Unity bought a visual scripting system too
signal citrus
Likely
north torrent
Lots of node based editors and procedural based editing out there now compared to when I was learning this stuff.
raw rose
Yeah it's great imo
rich quiver
ue4 have so many users everyone some part of the pie
north torrent
It opens a lot of middle ground in between the technical and the artistic.
signal citrus
I think even that weird tech demo engine had visual scripting now
rain steppe
UE4 is still great game engine? I hear a lot from cryengine, unigine, unity and others. What about UE? I kinda felt like it's the best market can offer, but now I am confused.
raw rose
There is no "best" engine
signal citrus
Ah yeah unigine was the one I was thinking of with previous comment
raw rose
They're all good in their own ways
north torrent
Unity is great for people who want to start a game but don't want to finish it.
pearl elk
Ive never played Unity, should I before Valhalla?
north torrent
Lets them keep telling their buddies they are game designers, but without having to actually finish anything.
signal citrus
Assassins creed time of sands first mons
north torrent
If you spend the whole weekend smoking pot and watching bad anime, and then your mom asks you how your weekend went, Unity is a great thing to tell her you were working on.
"I was building my game in Unity".
"Oh, it's great you are working hard".
It certainly has its uses.
pearl elk
It was a time, of sands, the sands were great, the great sands flowed, sands that through time became the Asassins Creed
novel latch
4.25: Did anyone find some hidden gems in Content Examples? 🙂
signal citrus
There’s hidden gems in the content examples?
novel latch
yeah, sometimes they update them and don't tell anybody
was hoping to see some new Niagara particles, but no luck 😭
would have been great if they had an audio sample or particle can read other particle data - example
rain steppe
What is wrong with Unity? I did work in it for 6 month
raw rose
Nothing, they're just haters
north torrent
-
They seem to care more about making money off people who use the engine than making money off people who sell completed games.
-
Unity isn't very artist friendly compared to other options available.
-
No free Megascans.
solid aurora
- Unity does not make games using their engine
it's actually not battletested on anything
north torrent
And as someone who works 95% on the artist side of things, I get tired of how most of the Unity Evangelists forget that artists exist and only really care about what is easy for beginner level programmers to learn.
And I guess there is also the fact that Unity games with simple graphics usually still don't have great performance.
signal citrus
@raw rose nah it’s actually a trap for developers imo, 8 years of my life
Not a hater
signal citrus
Would say it fails to scale to project size unless project has no scale
real palm
well tbf that works out for solo artists or artists who are new and working with their skill level
Unity Evangelists only really care about what is easy for beginner level programmers to learn.
north torrent
I don't think Unity cares about artists, while I think Epic does.
signal citrus
The engine wrote after its documentation seeks to be easy for people to use and rely on
fringe sundial
every single unity project, at its end stages, is a clusterfuck
no exceptions
being unable to fix the engine means your game has workarounds for days
and like iniside says, unity scales like shite
and its very unpolished on true productions
signal citrus
Gee vblanco what made you see the light? Lol
mossy nexus
fringe sundial
ive allways commented unity is a clusterfuck when "finishing" a project
but freelancing around, ive seen the Truth
signal citrus
Aye
fringe sundial
and oh god is it ugly
you will have bugs
no matter what
its just the nature of software
but on ue4, you can attach a debugger
and see wtf happens
9-10 times its not actually a bug, just something wrongly configured, so you fix it quickly
that 1-10 times, you can often just do some horrid hack in the codebase and call it a day
DWVR has 5 of those horrible hacks, on published product
signal citrus
I used it for a long time, when I speak out against it, it’s for developers considering something that is completely avoidable.
fringe sundial
on unity, you have strictly 2 options when you have a bug
scour google and the interwebs for that specific arcane answer on stack overflow or forums that fixes your bug
or cry to support
ive done both
but mostly google
signal citrus
Then with getting a game out to market you’ve got one option: lower expectations while caring less about initial vision
fringe sundial
very often, the support answer is " yeah its fixed on next release"
but if you upgrade
your entire project explodes
on ue4 at least you can often upgrade safely-ish the versions
signal citrus
I’ve heard that particularly got worse
fringe sundial
on unity, they cant even keep THEIR OWN SAMPLES working beetween versions
you go look at the unity ECS samples
it says
unity 2019.3.5f
you try it on 2019.3.6b, and it explodes
signal citrus
Lol
fringe sundial
you can try it right now
grab latest unity
grab ecs samples
see them not work
unless its the exact specific version
signal citrus
I’m good, I believe you
fringe sundial
its so unbelievably busted its not even funny
fringe sundial
meanwhile all unreal engine samples actually work
kite demo might be iffy due to its experimental features and crazy size
but man. If unity themselves cant keep projects updates, no one can
signal citrus
Yeah
fringe sundial
unity samples are such an insane graveyard
north torrent
That's what happens when you have engine developers who have never made a videogame.
signal citrus
I mean that decals demo from years ago wasn’t too different
fringe sundial
unity is great for prototypes tho
north torrent
How do you understand the struggles of spending 2 - 3 years on a project if you have never actually made a game?
fringe sundial
and general proof of concept and stuff
but for actual projects that need publishing, on different platforms? total insanity
north torrent
Like I said, it is great for people who want to start a game, not finish.
fringe sundial
specially if its a multiplat project
unity projects basically have to fork their project to make it work on each platform
having 1 project that deploys to multiple platforms is near impossible
signal citrus
I dunno, unreal is better for proof of concept but it definitely has more long of a learning process in terms of coding
I’d not use unity for anything really
north torrent
I just blueprint things together in ways that would probably make you guys cry if I shared them.
signal citrus
Bring on godot or unigine or other things I don’t know much of beyond not being unity
fringe sundial
godot at the very least is not only open source
but easily hackable
as in very easily hackable
hell i was able to make a fork that was 2 times faster in rendering within a week of looking at the source code XD
its not optimized at all, but its very easy to navigate code and change things
signal citrus
Very nice
mossy nexus
an actual fork, or a fork of the engine? 😄
that would be some detailed fork it it was one..
north torrent
Chopsticks.
tulip orbit
@north torrent porkchop sandwiches
raw rose
@fringe sundial Did you submit the fixes to them?
fringe sundial
@raw rose there was drama for days
signal citrus
🍿 (i like this story)
fringe sundial
because they were using modern cpp and devs hate it
and well, it made them look crazy bad that some random went and casually improved perf by a significant amount in a couple days
raw rose
That's the point of open source game engines though isn't it?
fringe sundial
yes, but in this case, the lead dev is very territorial
signal citrus
you'd think so right? some person drastically improves your engine, you don't say: eh its nice but its not what we like to look at
fringe sundial
its HIS engine
https://github.com/godotengine/godot/issues/23998 enjoy the drama
so basically
turn their crappy octree into a bruteforce
and it was much faster
raw rose
lol
raw rose
Well if I was them I'd be happy someone was helping
solid aurora
when you pack it into memory and let it run
i just wrote Influence map using sparse grid
two parts contributing most to performance
are hash calculation
and TMap::Find
but then it is called like 5k times per iteration
raw rose
Like I made this retro fps system a few months ago and if someone improved it, that'd be awesome https://github.com/deathclonic/RetroWeaponSystemFPS
solid aurora
and in packaged build it still less than ms
i mean
wirting performance code is not that hard even for noob like me ;s
bold fulcrum
Again, I really appreciate that you have good intentions, but you don't understand any of the inner workings of the engine, or the philosophy behind it. Most of your comments are towards things you don't really understand how they are used, how critical they are to performance, or what their priorities are in general. God, that was disgusting.
fringe sundial
godot does usability great
solid aurora
and those goals do not contradict each other
fringe sundial
but the dev doesnt give a single fk about perf
like, on this experimental fork, a good chunk of it is "easy improvement"
for example, using lambda instead of writing to output array for the culling
huge win, something like 20 lines of code total
but he hates lambdas
he still does
they are 100% banned no matter what
the dude is trying to find C libraries for multithreading, because all Cpp libraries for multithreading use lambdas and he doesnt want them
btw,not about banning std function
but lambdas, the entire language construct
solid aurora
like the best feature C++ invented before modules ?
raw rose
Can you just fork it and make a better version? Or does the license prevent that
Ig it'd be a lot of work to keep updating though
fringe sundial
@solid aurora yup
like, he hates them with a passion i dont know why
even when they would improve things
they are 100% banned no matter what, and he cant be reasoned with
he also fullbans auto
solid aurora
btw last time
fringe sundial
but that one at least has some sense to it
fringe sundial
godot still has the entire RHI api on virtuals
and forcing you to use Vector and others in the api
want to use that RHI api from a rust plugin? get fuckd mate
when it would not be very hard to have that api just be more C-ish so it can be bound directly from plugins
reduz: i make an easy to use render api so people can write render stuff in plugins!
also reduz: oh and i made sure its impossible to use outside of Cpp without wrapping stuff
winter zealot
maybe an agreement could be found where some parts of godot would be harder to read but more efficient, so that would allow for lambdas and whatnot
whereas other parts would have to be " easier to use " so without lambdas and simple algos
fringe sundial
its not about that. Most of my improvements were literally LESS lines than what was there in godot
winter zealot
unity has a scriptable rendering pipeline or something... ultimately it'd be great that godot would have this
spring parcel
i need help with this
fringe sundial
while being 3x faster
@winter zealot oh he actually doesnt want a scriptable pipeline
winter zealot
so your linear sorting algo could be implemented
fringe sundial
i talked with him about if he wanted to add a render-graph
which allows very easy pluginization of render stuff (ue4 is moving towards that), and it was a hard no
winter zealot
@spring parcel heh ? can you show the code corresponding to the errors tho ?
bold fulcrum
when performance is not priority, small allocations are always preferred Really? For renderer? Pff...
winter zealot
@fringe sundial thats bad tho yeah 😦
he's right when saying stuff has to be reliable tho
winter zealot
if a game crashes on a player's machine... the developer is blamed for that
so the engine has to be robust
fringe sundial
@solid aurora you should have read when i offered him to make a godot-style Slotmap
solid aurora
btw
fringe sundial
to use instead of this linked list business
bold fulcrum
nothing to do with reliability
fringe sundial
and he was like "hell no i dont want more containers"
solid aurora
best Rider function - you can use multiple VCS within single project
winter zealot
having said that I'm unable to tell what's more reliable... more tests would need to be made with custom players projects
fringe sundial
how the fuck can you be an engine dev
and refuse to add more containers
and just frankenstein everything into either linked list or shittily made vector
5x slower than std::vector
benchmarked
how can you fuck up a vector type holy shit
winter zealot
I think it's also an issue where he has to maintain his position as lead godot dev and maybe he wants to avoid agreeing to different directions because of that
spring parcel
@winter zealot i sent you the code can you pls help me
fringe sundial
and its his rules
bold fulcrum
It is pretty apparent that he struggles to keep up and that is the driving the path of development.
spring parcel
ok
fringe sundial
@bold fulcrum nah he is making tons of fun fancy stuff
for example he has added very nice soft shadows and nice decals
except renderer is still crazy slow
and has no LODs
nor occlusion culling
solid aurora
lol
this remainds me of
infinity battlescape
excpet here the guys is really wizard
guy*
he just can't really handle team
not sharing code with anybody
winter zealot
i can only hope that it improves
also i've tried to help @spring parcel a little but I don't have much time right now
spring parcel
anyone else can help me
mossy nexus
Hmm. Amazon AWS have a zombie clause in their T&Cs... That's very forward thinking of them.
solid aurora
well everybody can laugh about zombie
but with CRISP easily accessible
it is really not far fetched
fathom wadi
I swear Playstation Now uses peer to peer to share files. Whenever we download with it, I lose all my upload speed.
between that and Disney+, it's wrecking my internet. Might be time to get some bandwidth management on the network
plucky pagoda
I had to do it for a while. Limited the download and upload to the xboxes on the network for a long time they were hitting the network hard.
fathom wadi
Disney+ is terrible for it. One of the kids starts watching it, everyone else's internet stops until its fully buffered.
plucky pagoda
Their app is embarrasingly bad.
fathom wadi
Nope I tested it. Plus when the wife paused it, it instantly uploaded
Im due to be upgraded in a few days though so I'm thinking about using that operating system for bandwidth shaping on a nuc
gleaming hill
Who is best looking Paragon character
signal citrus
i use openwrt myself
fathom wadi
yeah? Ill check it out.
@gleaming hill I think https://paragon.fandom.com/wiki/Countess
I mained on Murdock myself. I loved the feel of his setup once he got beefed up
gleaming hill
Hmm in terms of visuals I quite like Drongo actually
Basically trying to determine which characters to use to showcase my locomotion system 😄 it needs a new trailer
fathom wadi
I always thought Gideon's special was the best looking move in the game.
oh man I miss that game
broken sigil
^^
dense storm
some of those abilities were awesome and would have been nice to see how they worked internally
broken sigil
it was a good game... I liked it at least 🤷♀️
dense storm
also they promised a lot of the animation nodes (like Speed warping, distance matching) etc
that never materialized
only thing we got out of it was GAS
and that was only cause Fortnite and Paragon needed the same kinda system
what ya reckon to this for a work/mild gaming laptop
gleaming hill
@dense storm my plugin has those nodes essentially, probably doesn't help you much since its not free tho
dense storm
i have speed warping
gleaming hill
I use the same concepts for procedural strafing and gait
gleaming hill
Yep, has a huge update coming too with new trailer, new animations, new turn in place (Fortnite's)
dense storm
ah i made my own turn in place
rotating root bone and using curves to adjust the rotation rate
counter rotating the root bone
gleaming hill
Is this what you meant by distance matching, or is this the speed warping? https://youtu.be/r7oAPQPYN9g?t=37
dense storm
wheres the turn in place
gleaming hill
dense storm
ah you have animation jumps
dense storm
how do you do the TIP?
gleaming hill
Its driven by curves
My plugin has a bunch of tools for extracting root motion, etc
dense storm
yeah but are you counter rotating the root bone?
gleaming hill
Yep
gleaming hill
Works fine for me, what conditions do they not work under
If by "root motion" you mean "Rotate Root Bone" node in anim graph, that is...
gleaming hill
Because my animations aren't using root motion, they use curves
dense storm
oh right
dense storm
ah ok
gleaming hill
Just makes it easier for people since many packs include root motion but not curves
And when I hand animate animations I animate root motion
Simple this way
Since its an MP asset other ppl need to be able to utilize it
dense storm
i did all my curve importing using Animation Modifier
same as sync nodes and anim notifies lol
gleaming hill
My plugin doesn't use any anim notifies
I find them rather archaic
Even the footstep system is fully procedural
I do have an optional notify you can use to force it to trigger a footstep, that's all
gleaming hill
They have their place in some cases
dense storm
BP ones are expensive
gleaming hill
But I don't think they're terribly needed
signal citrus
I find them really inconsistent
gleaming hill
^
dense storm
only in montages and its normally due to blends
signal citrus
They either fire too much or not enough or mistakenly are constantly firing and i don't realize it etc
dense storm
never found them inconsistent in normal animation sequences
signal citrus
ah yeah, for that sort of thing they're okay
they don't belong in walk cycles and such
It depends on complexity of stuff i suppose but yeah I couldn't manage to have them be invoked cleanly when i started diagnosing what they were actually doing
dense storm
how do you handle footsteps then?
signal citrus
given that was probably 4.18 or something
one foot hits at 0.0 other at 0.5
use time to determine if a sound should be played etc
dense storm
o_0
gleaming hill
Procedural > notifies 😎
signal citrus
how expensive is a notify?
gleaming hill
Check the timestamp here https://youtu.be/r7oAPQPYN9g?t=137
dense storm
a c++ one is not really expensive
a BP one is cause of the calls to and from the VM
same as using event graph in animbp
is expensive
our player animbp post c++ move, was around .3ms
after c++ move, .08ms
signal citrus
If i can avoid infrastructural stuff that needs to run on the gamethread like that I'll usually avoid it. but i avoid notifies because of their inconsistencies more than for performance reasons tbh
dense storm
we just use it for the animgraph side
signal citrus
you could compare though yeah, 100 of players is a lot
dense storm
nothing in the event side
signal citrus
it'd still be running on gamethread though
gleaming hill
My anim graph was about 45% more performant than ALS with 100 players... but I don't think ALS is a great example here
signal citrus
i couldn't imagine it uses some built in threadsafe api for playing sounds, unless there is one i've not ran into i mean
dense storm
ALS is all BP
gleaming hill
And not fast path
signal citrus
they don't execute on the gt?
signal citrus
I've not looked into the system myself but i imagine the animation thread queues the calls to happen in the GT when the GT handles what the animation graph did right?
I'm mostly oblivious to notifies but i've worked alot within the animgraph/instance/nodes and there are multiple gt chokepoints it could tap into
gleaming hill
I didn't look into it much either but IIRC notifies are passed through the proxy
So in theory they could run on GT
signal citrus
oof yeah
dense storm
so what they do is, the skeletal mesh ticks
signal citrus
getting the proxy on the game thread ensures the gamethread is locked
signal citrus
yeah 
either way if it works its fine probably. but would keep an eye on it with insights or something to see how much overhead there is if you can get a capture with many many players
at least it queues up on animation thread
frozen shuttle
me and a buddy are trying to get source control up and running with git-lfs with unreal.... we have everything going and have ran tests but need some help...
anyone available ?
gleaming hill
@dense storm @signal citrus I plugged a dinosaur into my locomotion system lmao 😛 https://streamable.com/tdenk9
signal citrus
its a sneakysaur
gleaming hill
The crouch is pretty hilarious
deep glen
call it "confused dino" and submit to steam
gleaming hill
@deep glen Confused dino simulator
Kickstarter, minimum 100k
Then submit to steam
deep glen
500% funded
bronze axle
Add destructible objects and call it Tyrannosaurus Wrecks.
gleaming hill
The terrible physics will be a feature
bronze axle
Yeah. Goat Simulator with a dino, essentially.
deep glen
add a railway aspect, Tyrannosaurus tracks
bronze axle
Can't wait for the sequel where they add guns and you face off against flying enemies. They'll call it T-Wrecks 2: Rip & Pterodactyl
There's a game right there: Doom but with dinosaurs.
deep glen
and the lego-spinoff Tyrannosaurus and the Legosaurus
signal citrus
yall be designing games damn
legosaurus v tyrannosaurus would be very marketable i think
north torrent
Live Services.
deep glen
Legosaurus vs duplodon
gleaming hill
The endless question of whether it would be more painful to step on a legosaurus or have a tyrannosaurus step on you
north torrent
I think it would be more painful when your kid gets your credit card and starts ordering Legosaurus upgrade lootboxes.
gleaming hill
Join professorsaurus Rex as we explore the real questions
deep glen
"Legosaurus, now in fortnite"
north torrent
Legosaurus Launcher App and Legosaurus Games Store.
plucky pagoda
@deep glen I have more of an issue with the responses to that which seem like they don't understand the way IPs get licensed. He's saying he'd like someone to basically take the IP and give him a tiny piece of the pie. It'd be different if he wanted a huge percentage or something but what he's offering doesn't seem too different from buying rights or an option on something. I mean it might be a total trash concept or it could be something really good but the inital profer doesn't seem too crazy to me.
deep glen
personal opinion aside, idea's come cheap.
basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGar7KC6Wiw :p
plucky pagoda
True, but a complete outline or story line with a world concept and a complete set of rules, characters etc... and a following if he has it can be worth something.
deep glen
perhaps, but until he finished the book and its somewhat successful, its all quite moot
plucky pagoda
I mean no idea if the guy's full of BS like most are,
AH, I read that he already had a book written.
soft night
tomorrow is the day in Inside Xbox when we see first time Gameplay trailer from Assassins Creed Valhalla
north torrent
Ideas are cheap, being able to complete ideas is worth something.
gleaming hill
Ideas are less than cheap, they're worthless
You can make a profitable game by making a BR with no real idea at all
And it would make more than that super fleshed out platformer you were thinking about
real palm
they can actually even have negative worth, if they're in the right hands
gleaming hill
Indeed
north torrent
They aren't worthless when they guide you to make something you care about.
gleaming hill
Thats sentimental or internal worth, its different to financial worth
At that point we might as well not even have the discussion
real palm
It's really more about ideas you can execute than ideas you like
north torrent
If you are making games for money then you chose the wrong career, because there is no money for us developers.
Maybe get into the business side of games, they make money.
Or become an investment banker.
gleaming hill
No one said that
Game studios are a business 🤷♂️
If you want a job, its going to involve being worth something in the sense of money
I actively choose not to work for someone
north torrent
I think you are mistaking the setting in which we are having this conversation.
This is the Unreal Discord which is not exclusive to professional game studios, but a Discord for a game engine that is open for everybody.
gleaming hill
Thats literally what you're doing, did you not watch the video
That luos posted
Even outside of that context, ideas that aren't your own having worth is a bit silly
north torrent
The point is, that if you have an idea and you can put the work in to make it, then it has value.
How much value that is can be debated, but it is a sum greater than 0.
signal citrus
depends on if your the only person that can pull it off yeah?
gleaming hill
The majority of ideas are probably well below 0
north torrent
Even if you pull off something anyone else can do, it is still worth something.
gleaming hill
Lots of people attempt projects that never come to fruition
Not everything is purely a learning experience
And there is a point where you can make a game without learning a whole lot
fathom wadi
Someone on Twitter put out this blanket bully statement last week that said you shouldn't make a narrative about a guy who loses a loved one then goes out and does something with a gun. He berated people for that. But its a classic story for a reason. We can all relate. If you find an idea that resonates and binds with people, it's worth the legacy it leaves, which can be everything if that is what you are striving for. No matter if one dickhead on the internet doesn't like it.
gleaming hill
A good idea for me conforms entirely to my own ability in UE4 or as a game dev, within my idea of reasonable scope and time invested, and within my area of interest and skillset, and appeals to me as a game - you could throw a million ideas at me I wouldn't touch, and many ideas I would touch, you'll find a million other devs who wont touch it
The entire worth of an idea always boils down to the execution
And they absolutely do not have a sum greater than 0
fathom wadi
I dont deal in absolutes when you have a world of variance.
gleaming hill
Semantics
fathom wadi
and the moment you refuse to make a game because you don't like the idea, is the moment you limited your own ability
gleaming hill
What... no
Making a game is an investment of time and energy
You should definitely refuse to make a game if you don't like the idea
fathom wadi
my point is just because you don't like the idea, doesn't make the idea bad or not worth doing
gleaming hill
How is that relevant?
fathom wadi
I've learned more from stepping out of my box and working on other people's stuff than my own
gleaming hill
People only have limited time - in their days and on this earth
This isn't about learning though
fathom wadi
isnt it? I thought we were game devs here
fathom wadi
no but I've seen it before. I just dont remember it much
gleaming hill
And even on that point
You shouldn't just try something because someone presented the idea to you
You should focus your learning
fathom wadi
depends if I get paid
gleaming hill
My life doesn't revolve around money, I pay my bills and get the few things I actually desire
fathom wadi
neither does mine
gleaming hill
I'm not going to work on painstaking projects destined to fail for more of it
fathom wadi
but time is precious as you put it
gleaming hill
So you're agreeing with me
fathom wadi
I worked for 3 years on projects I disliked, because it benefitted my skillset
north torrent
The thing about classic story tropes is that they are a comfortable foundation for a group of people. People actually like repeating elements in art, and there is nothing inherently wrong with using clichés.
There are certainly wrong ways to use a cliché, but that's a whole different discussion.
That being said, I think John Wick was one of the worst movies I ever saw.
gleaming hill
Me too? That isn't relevant
fathom wadi
really? I thought we were talking about the worth of ideas
gleaming hill
Yes?
fathom wadi
so I thought the idea stank, but I still benefitted from it. So the idea was worth something. To me at least
fathom wadi
I believe I did. It was 3 years of free work
gleaming hill
Wait you actually worked for free for 3 years on an idea you didn't even like?
fathom wadi
yes
north torrent
If you take a bad idea and decide to make it, that's on you, not the guy who had the idea.
gleaming hill
I learned while getting paid on ideas I DID like
You should have kept yourself available lol
fathom wadi
good. I had options to get paid in other places but I wanted to complete the task
gleaming hill
Sure Mao, doesn't change the worth of the idea
north torrent
But it does.
gleaming hill
@fathom wadi Kind of my point, why not complete those tasks
fathom wadi
Well it was a learning experience that was invaluable
gleaming hill
I can't imagine why you can't find a job that pays and you learn from it
stiff crystal
talking of things one wouldn't do even when paid for it (while still being on game dev industry)..
a system for predatory microtransactions...
fathom wadi
I could now, but back then, I had no degree, only one title to my name and I needed something to push me into UE4 territory
stiff crystal
or whatever lootcrate nonsense there is
north torrent
Live service monetization systems are life.
stiff crystal
they can literally ruin peoples lives
fathom wadi
@stiff crystal You are right. I have a moral obligation against child gambling systems like EA produce. Mostly because I am an addicted gambler and know what they are doing
north torrent
My business card literally has 'Game Designer' scratched out and replaced with 'Live Service Developer'
north torrent
And 'Environment Artist' scratched out and replaced with 'Monitization Manager'.
fathom wadi
yaeh its that 3+ rating that PEGI gave it that causes me to label it as such
north torrent
That's how you get jobs.
fathom wadi
damn. Just looked at my clock and realised its my father's birthday. He died a few years ago. He was born May 7th 1945. We used to say that he single handedly won WW2 because Hitler heard he was born and ran away.
officially VE tomorrow.
gleaming hill
Yeah perpetuating addictive instincts to make money is scummy af