A lot of people suffer from something. Even me. If you add this channel, it can help ease tension and things like that.
#I want a mental help channel
proper merlin
grave relic
who is going to offer help?
There are no doctors here, this is a community around guitars.
When you seek mental help, go to the official places and actually get proper help.
Some discord server can't provide that.
barren cobalt
id be wary about taking advice or trauming bonding with strangers online. this is a professional subject needing a professional for advice.
one thing i think is needed is a neurodivergent awareness support group
spark kelp
A lot of people suffer from something. Even me. If you add this channel, it can ...
yeah, no.
discord isnt a substitute for professional help. if you have mental issues, seek out a professional
spark kelp
one thing i think is needed is a neurodivergent awareness support group
there are plenty of discord groups for just that.
barren cobalt
there are plenty of discord groups for just that.
The issue is that in musician spaces the chance of you being on the spectrum is much much higher and it isn't talked about
barren cobalt
it doesnt belong here
It's part of music and always has been. And guitarists. I think it could save alot of people years of frustration and pain.
spark kelp
again, you should seek professional help if this is a huge issue for you
barren cobalt
again, you should seek professional help if this is a huge issue for you
It's a huge issue generally because it's not talked about enough in musician spaces.
spark kelp
why do we have to?
barren cobalt
why do we have to?
You don't have to. But it could be helpful for people.
spark kelp
then again, there are plenty of servers like that
barren cobalt
Your ignoring the point that it's way more prevalent if your a musician.
Like 90% of people who play an instrument are gaurenteed to be on the spectrum
spark kelp
ok, and thats an issue because?
grave relic
Like 90% of people who play an instrument are gaurenteed to be on the spectrum
where is that number from?
spark kelp
where is that number from?
his rear end, clearly.
barren cobalt
ok, and thats an issue because?
In my case it took me almost 30 years to know and I could have been way more ahead in my life had I had more awareness of it. And I don't wish that loss of time on anyone and I wish that there were more people who could have hinted at that way earlier and having a community that has high records of neurodivergence in terms of needing that to function to play instruments and have a deep obsession usually they go hand in hand with neurodivergence. But seeing that I'm getting hostile responses whilst being earnest with you that's where this conversation ends. And I could bring up tonnes of studies but because your are acting in bad faith Its not worth my time you can Google that yourself.
spark kelp
i dont think you would have found out any faster if musicians talked about it more
i got my diagnosis before i started with music
barren cobalt
i dont think you would have found out any faster if musicians talked about it mo...
If it's not talked about, then awareness is less.
spark kelp
there is plenty of awareness for it these days
just because you cant cram it into every nook and cranny you find doesnt mean its not there
a discord server is still no substitute for a medical professional
barren cobalt
Still not enough in the specific field of music. It's getting better but it's not quite there yet.
spark kelp
lol
barren cobalt
Why would you not want people to have that awareness? When you have it yourself?
That's a weird take
spark kelp
because that has nothing to do with anyone but me
i dont feel a need for everyone to know im a bit off
if they wanna know they can ask, no need to announce it to the whole world so i can feel special
barren cobalt
if they wanna know they can ask, no need to announce it to the whole world so i ...
That's not what it's about tho. And not what a community could do for those kinds of issues. It's not about feeling special. It's about helping people understand and helping others who maybe in ruts or frustrated but not knowing why and then having shame of failing over and over without explanation. I teach alot of people and it's so common to see the traits and then help through that and give them guitar practice that actually works with those conditions. You have the wrong attitude about it.
spark kelp
then you are talking about another server entirely
because this does not fit into the idea of this server
barren cobalt
then you are talking about another server entirely
Let's keep this server ignorant got it.
spark kelp
ofcourse you default to that 😛
everything and everyone who dont agree with you is "ignorant"
ive heard it before haha
barren cobalt
ofcourse you default to that 😛
That's what your responses amount to.
rancid cedar
there are much better servers for neurodivergent spaces than a guitar server, I won't lie
and discord for professional help is a good way to worsen your problems.
spark kelp
and even those dont replace a medical professional
rancid cedar
yup. Therapists aren't the way for everyone though
spark kelp
sure. discord is not a valid option either way lol
rancid cedar
Still better than a discord server regardless 
grave relic
Or promoting ignorance
I don't think it's about ignorance either.
It's about the question that comes after.
There are no doctors in this server, it's not a universal institute for mental health.
It's not a school for guitar either.
It's a loose community of people playing guitar and that are interested in talking about guitar.
Even though there are a lot of beginners and players in general coming to the server asking for advice and help, doesn't change that.
I find it highly questionable to advice them a mental condition based on some statistic you dragged out of a hat, just because you have a personal history with it.
What happens when you tell a 13 year old, who just got a squier strat and fender frontman for his birthday and wants to start out with playing green day songs,
he doesn't know yet how to fret a power chord and asks for advice because he mutes a string too much, that he's on a spectrum and needs to take special care and special ways of practice?
This is not constructive or ethical.
It's a thing that has to be checked on an individual basis by a professional. Not on a discord server.
But you can adress that topic ofc, when you speak to that person directly.
I wonder how they'd react and if they accept it and want to proceed with playing guitar when they're put on a spectrum.
barren cobalt
I don't think it's about ignorance either.
It's about the question that comes af...
its not about having doctors or anything its just recognition of patterns of behaviour that other neurodivergent people like myself can suggest to go seek help. thats it. so you mean to tell me all of the commonalities that we experience and can visually see is not worth talking about? its more unethical to be silent about it. im not claiming to give diagnoses. and this only occurs when a repeated pattern is showing that i recognise. and ive been right every time. nearly every student that has come to me either tells me that they are on spectrum. or they exhibit attypical signs. and then realise. this i not a coincidence. this is huge thing that doesnt get talked about in musician spaces enough. because theres this eltist mentality of pick yourself up by your bootstraps rather than actually help each other develop and grow. which gives the result of "you should suffer in silence and get gud". which often leads to burn out and resenting playing instrument. i say this from 20 years of guitar teaching experience. you are extrapolating a scenario where you believe im not careful and you believe that im irresponsible, this isnt the case and i do take my job very seriously because i dont want to let them down. and if someone is struggling not only with the material that i provide but they just cant process information in a neurtypical way then yes im going to accomodate that and talk about my experience and help them come to terms with working with it rather than struggling against it and ultimatley giving up. which happens all the time, not with me but the silent majority who dont understand why its difficult but could be doing so much better if they knew how to deal with things.
rancid cedar
brochacho.
How do we tell you this,
This is still not a reason to put a mental health space or anything of the like in a discord server. That is a huge recipe for disaster
barren cobalt
How do we tell you this,
This is still not a reason to put a mental health space...
if you read i intially put that i dont agree with an open mental health thing, but i do agree with neurodivergent awareness. as its easy as pattern recognition for certain behaviours. it can be deep but it doesnt have to be. at the very least id like a bit more open support for it and understanding.
rancid cedar
Hmm. Fairs, I mistook who did the initial suggestion
However, you have to understand that this is a guitar space.
If you want a neurodivergent space, go in a dedicated community for that.
I may be myself, there's no way in hell that I am normal but I'm not calling for a space in the guitar server because
- Guitarists are a bit dumb
- This isn't the place for this
spark kelp
i dont want a ADHD channel or autism channel just because i got it
barren cobalt
However, you have to understand that this is a guitar space.
If you want a neur...
i know kiss is the guitar motto lmao. but im saying it because it could affect people in profound ways and if you read the last post i made, i could have had 30 years of my life back had i known sooner. and as heavily involved in the guitar community as i am, if someone in those positions of respect an authority talked about it in relation to learning guitar i think i could have had a much better chance at success had i known that this was the issue.
being open about it in a big server such as this could have the same effect. i dont think there should be a channel per say but i think its good to talk about generally and to get people to think about it. me personally i cannot function or move without my adhd meds. its that bad. i have a ferrari in my brain but no fuel. is probably the best analogy. as corny as that sounds. but its true.
i would have loved to have been informed way earlier.
rancid cedar
Next time you throw a paragraph please split it up a little, makes it easier to read
barren cobalt
Next time you throw a paragraph please split it up a little, makes it easier to ...
sorry formatting isnt on my mind when typing. but note taken.
rancid cedar
Format like Ces.
barren cobalt
Format like Ces.
done
rancid cedar
That is awesome.
grave relic
its not about having doctors or anything its just recognition of patterns of beh...
Like said, individual case to case advice is where it's at and you're free to proceed that idea of implementing that.
The majority of help provided in the community also exceeds the "just get gud" statement as well.
Questions are specific and so is the help given in most cases. Especially in the individual help channels.
But I still don't get behind the idea the server pushing this onto the community. Force people to read into this on both sides, providing and receiving help.
That doesn't mean, you aren't allowed to offer advice in that direction.
But I can guarantee you it will be challenged.
This is not a school and people come and go for specific individual help with a certain issue in their playing technique or song learning.
grave relic
Format like Ces.
I just do it for my own readability
rancid cedar
Me too. But it helps others read as well
spark kelp
"Ces. Dyslexic friend"
rancid cedar
but yes, this server is very specialized with guitar. As much as there may be a correlation between neurodivergence and guitar playing, I still don't think that it's the place for that.
I doubt this server is hostile to neurodivergence. It's just not the main talking point
the main talking point is me reposting my Hughes & Kettner amp for the 100th time
barren cobalt
Like said, individual case to case advice is where it's at and you're free to pr...
its only offensive to you if you if you dont understand the messaging, i mean. if its applicable to anyone then it shouldnt be offensive. by that i mean it will be helpful to the people who it applies to and to those who it doesnt they dont need to listen or take part. thats how that works.
grave relic
Either way, I think as long as it's not a general server set up thing pushed onto people it's not a bad take.
For example, a thread that's well worked out and filled with information in https://discord.com/channels/178184607169118208/1151777373881118720 for example could work.
barren cobalt
but yes, this server is very specialized with guitar. As much as there may be a ...
its a real big correlation. once you see it you cant unsee it. its probably why van halen was an alchoholic. and many other cases.
spark kelp
HUH
grave relic
that's too much interpretation for my taste
rancid cedar
Correlations are not absolute causations.
In this case, He was probably an alcoholic because he was a huge rockstar more likely than not
spark kelp
how come im not an alcoholic then
rancid cedar
Because strong alcohol tastes like sharpies
spark kelp
exactly
barren cobalt
im not saying being on the spectrum prediacates that all people on the spectrum are alchoholics. thats rediculous. what absurd take from what i said.
rancid cedar
I just think that it's unlikely to be the dominant cause of VH's alcoholism.
barren cobalt
the alchoholism can stem from people needing that addiction loop to feed their brain thats lacking the dopamine production.
spark kelp
or maybe some people just have a drinking problem
barren cobalt
alot of people who become addicts are tied to this
barren cobalt
or maybe some people just have a drinking problem
yeh we get it you wanna stay ignorant. you can bow out.
barren cobalt
when you put stupid in, you get stupid out
thats the result of your input
and output
rancid cedar
the alchoholism can stem from people needing that addiction loop to feed their b...
I guess that applies to ADHD
but like.
Remember that the lifestyle of a rockstar is far from healthy
spark kelp
whatever helps you sleep at night dawg
barren cobalt
but like.
Remember that the lifestyle of a rockstar is **far** from healthy
thats also true but i think like all of the traits about wanting to tinker and obsession with technical specs and all these other traits its not just about van halen too. like you can see this in so many artists that in the past could have been considered to have these conditions. and could have been able to cope with life better. and we would have more music. its important.
rancid cedar
Oh right
the dude was really autistic with his gear
Where a detailed set of instructions had to be followed
barren cobalt
Oh right
the dude was really autistic with his gear
he built loads of new shit of technical specs. like the powersoak to get the "brownsound" or always exhcange with les paul about technical guitar specs and pickup poling ratings. dude was an autistic nerd man.
rancid cedar
Of course.
We get a lot of these in artist spaces.
Doesn't mean we need a neurodivergent space still.
I'll argue that the whole server already is one
grave relic
that's too much guessing.
The real problem is, when this is like this when helping people with their guitar playing, you just don't know for certain and are hiding behind a role of authority pushing people into this. That's not making people aware, it's offensive.
barren cobalt
like the need to perform stems from needing to get that dopmaine hit to feel normal
the crowd adores you, you feel validated dopamine loop engaged.
that has been one of the only sources to copy with the condition for centuries.
rancid cedar
that is the source of clout chasing syndrome. Literally everyone gets high off having a platform
barren cobalt
that is the source of clout chasing syndrome. Literally everyone gets high off h...
yeh but your more likely to be on the neuro spectrum because you have the neuro makup that needs it.
content creators big time are wired this way.
barren cobalt
that's too much guessing.
The real problem is, when this is like this when helpi...
offensive how? people get checked out if it isnt the case it isnt the case. and when it is the case ive just saved someone alot of time and pain aswell as confusion about themselves. and they can function way better.
i dont see the downside in that at all. other than maybe a wasted trip to the doctor.
if we are being practical about things.
like the biggest issue with this, is that the method of practice routines, dont accomodate for this.
so people give the advice in guitar communities where its really prevalent. and then they said "practice this for X hours per day" when people like myself on the spectrum. cant handle routines. and you need to work around that.
thats how it can be of practical use in a guitar community
grave relic
you are free to chime in and give individual help in the server by just chatting to the people asking for advice or opinions.
barren cobalt
i know this is challenging normal convention. but it has to be done. or people will suffer.
grave relic
what's challenging is the foundation of your motivation. You base it on statistics and your guesswork.
I am pretty sure that aspect will always be challenged by the community.
if it helps the person needing help, it's a well put in effort.
but I won't get behind putting people on the spot to get checked by a doctor if they're on the spectrum for special help
that't the conventional aspect about it.
barren cobalt
what's challenging is the foundation of your motivation. You base it on statisti...
my foundation of my motivation is to save people the experience ive gone through. and i can recognise the issues in others due to that experience. i dont ascribe this to everyone and i dont know your situation or your understanding on this topic. but its a common thing for us neurospicey people to recognise it very quickly in others.
barren cobalt
but I won't get behind putting people on the spot to get checked by a doctor if ...
noone is saying that. like there would be several steps before that.
and only if there was consent to talk with someone that candidly.
i think ive said all i can say on this topic. its just going to go in an autism spiral. and id like to prevent that.
one thing i wont tolerate is accusations of being irresponsible. as i do take my job seriously.
thats it
grave relic
my foundation of my motivation is to save people the experience ive gone through...
that's still not a 100% guarantee.
And based on the guessing, for whatever degree, there is room for doubt.
You're not a doc either, even though you have history with the matter yourself.
barren cobalt
that's still not a 100% guarantee.
And based on the guessing, for whatever degr...
never claimed to be, but lets be real theres commonalities between people on spectrum. it would be weird to ignore that for the sake of statistical or sceintific accuracy, which btw it doesnt work that way when you get test. or do anything related to finding out. its based on your own experience. and your experience reflects how you understand your brain working. that then correlates to other peoples experiences. and the similarities help define the condition. thats just how data collection works. it might not even be the answer youd like but the lived experiences of people who have the condition help diagnose others who are struggling and have no explanation.
grave relic
one thing i wont tolerate is accusations of being irresponsible. as i do take my...
that aspect is still open for interpretation.
Like said, you are right now able to provide help to people in the community.
I am just underlining the fact, that it's not in the responsibility of the server to push this topic on the community or advice individuals to go to a doctor just because some individual users have a history with the subject.
It's fine when it comes from the users themselves, that think they have seen something in another user and ask them if they are willing to take advice in that sense.
barren cobalt
obviously you get confirmation when you suspect things.
barren cobalt
that aspect is still open for interpretation.
Like said, you are right now able ...
im not asking to push anything, just saying more awarness is a good thing.
helping those with it and having more understanding is a good thing.
i dont understand the objection to this.
im not advocating for this wierd version your thinking about, where its enforced on people unwillingly and misdiagnosing people left and right. thats not what ive been saying.
im saying that there should be more understanding and helpfulness with people who have those conditions as long as there not being a dick.
ive said enough
any more will be going in circles
tender pasture
i wouldn't mind it, i've been diagnosed
and I don't see why not as long as it's moderated
not necessarily needed, i agree, but why r yall so against it? just a group of ppl who are diagnosed and like guitar
what I disagree with is calling it a mental help channel like that, just a group
rancid cedar
i wouldn't mind it, i've been diagnosed
and I don't see why not as long as it's ...
it shifted to some kind of forum for it
I just think that the guitar server isn't the place for that. That's all on my end
light vault
fuvk no
whole trellis