Thank you for the feedback! Reading your impressions was very interesting.
#Endless Blue
hasty linden
hasty linden
|| One the story's focuses is definitely what trying to save everyone does to someone, and how doing that is essentially sacrificing yourself for others at a certain point. So much stress if felt and energy expended nowadays by people having the desire to save people they've never met and have no real way of helping. As with Miracle, this desire is pure, but in the end you can't save everyone regardless of how nice that would be, and it becomes detrimental to your own health.
Also yes I wanted to try to go into why we call certain things drugs, when essentially anything that we are attracted to is a drug. Whether it's people, sex, food, or what we conventionally think of as drugs, we're all just trying to get another hit of something that makes us feel good.
In regards to the thematic question posed, the way I would phrase it is, "Things are only real if you believe they are, and what everyone else thinks is real commonly becomes real even if we ourselves don't believe it to be. It is the act of believing something is real that makes it so," as is mentioned in one of the classroom scenes.
Oh yes and also as far as what you said about misunderstandings and assumptions, individual perception and whatnot. A lot of the themes are also about "signs" and patterns, as they are the basis of astrology. It goes into what I said above about believing things to be real. If you start looking into the patterns of the universe or anything else for the matter, of course some things are going to match up. When you start paying attention to things and believing them to be true, they're more likely to become true. Manifestation, etc. ||
hasty linden
||If I show you a pen that is blue and ask you what color it is, you will obviously say it is blue. But, if I then tell you to take me wherever you want and say, "We are going to ask 100 random people what color this pen is," and every single person we ask says that the pen is red, how many people do you think it would take for you to believe that you are wrong? Sure, you may harbor the belief inside that it is actually blue, but you will never be sure again. As I said above, in a lot of instances, it doesn't really matter what you think is true if everyone else thinks something different. The pen thing is obviously a silly example, but this is how our perception of ourselves and the world are influenced by others on a grand scale.||
Could you expand at all on why you think the first thirty pages are hard to follow?
hasty linden
Definitely! It gives you something to attribute why things happen the way they do. Also, if multiple people willingly decide to believe something is real despite knowing it's not (or at least not knowing for sure that it is real), it's a way of knowing they can trust each other.
hasty linden
I mean whatever your genuine impression is would probably be the most helpful.
hasty linden
Yes this is exactly what I want. If you have more opinions on other things in the script I would love to hear them. As everyone always should, I will decide whether or not I agree that it is something that needs to be changed!
I have always tried to give the audience as much visual credit as possible while writing, but sometimes I go too far. I think it's easier to do that and work backwards instead of the opposite. For me, the less information you can give to the audience while they still understand, the better. It allows for more creativity. You're not dumb! I just really hate when I read a screenplay and keep thinking "Yea, I get it," multiple times. It makes me feel like the writer thinks I'm stupid.
Why do you think you're not the target audience for the characters, and who do you think would be?
hasty linden
||The utility I find in opinion based feedback is that I'm able to see a script through someone else's eyes and impressions. I can see where they misunderstood the story, and figure out why that happened. For instance, I posted this script on r/screenwriting (with very little hopes), and the only feedback I received (besides being told the logline is way too long) was this:
"The first few pages have me completely lost.
I don't even know if the main characters are supposed to be human, or cartoon animals. Really it's anybody's guess.
OP you need to explain more. You need to clarify what's happening... Who or what are the main characters? Give me more than just an age and a haircut.
Where are we?
What's even happening?
If someone is on drugs and out of it, it would be helpful if you would clarify that to me as the reader, and not make me decipher or guess that based on their completely random dialogue."
Now, this feedback is almost useless. This person clearly needs to have their hand held and is very unimaginative. BUT - the one thing this feedback does give me is metrics. Every person who's given me any type of feedback on this (4 people, it has been difficult) has mentioned something about the beginning being hard to grasp. So, because of this, I have made small edits that make it a little easier. I know that it's a lot to take in and any way that I can make it more appealing will help! It also assists me in thinking about why it's hard to understand. It's because it overloads people's brains! I thought that having the first scene be so simple/slow/easy to visualize would adequately ease the reader in, but clearly not. ||
||This is hit home by the script swap I did on reddit, where the person said (excerpts):
"On page 3 your description says “a hand spins a pen”. This gives me no idea where/when we
are and who we are with. This is vital to have an understanding of the story."
This isn't something I'm going to change, but I can work around it and solve the "problem" through other methods really easily (I think).
"The overall plot sometimes felt more like a compilation of scenes, especially in the beginning. Why
does Miracle give that man a blowjob and why does Ryan hit her (there also doesn’t seem to be any
resolution to their fight regarding his domestic violence), why does Miracle play bingo and why is it
so bad if she wins? What was the point of Ryan’s presentation? Did he apply for a job/a scholarship?
And what happened with his presentation? What crash was Ryan in and for many pages we don’t
know wo actually died at the crash. Which would be fine if it was a shocking revelation but now it
just seems like you forgot to mention it earlier. Also the drug, in the end we learn that it is supposed
to help her revive people/animals and ascend to the stars, but I was really confused why she would
take it again after her rehab. I’m not saying you have to reveal it, but give us a hint so that we can at
least partially understand where she comes from. Before, I did not see any benefit that I would have
attributed to the drug, so it seemed unrealistic that she would risk cutting of her arm again."
So, this paragraph tells me that this person didn't understand a lot of things that (in my opinion) are very obvious. Most of the plot beats here have very clear explanations. This tells me that the reader either struggles to make assumptions in a story and literally need to be told something happened, OR, their brain was overloaded at the beginning and that influenced the entire read (probably both).||
||"While your imagination and your visual ideas are clearly a strong suit and can be highly beneficial, I
do think you have to make your vision clearer. On page 107 you write “Ryan’s head is a planet
orbiting the sky” even though the scene is set in the corn fields. I really could not picture how that
was supposed to look like. Or was it maybe just a feeling?"
This also points to them not having a very visual imagination. I have a clear picture in my head for this. Also, they said corn fields and I make a point that it's flax like twenty times.||
hasty linden
||So yea, as I said above, the utility is seeing the story through other people's eyes. I have a very hard time interpreting my work usually, so it is really helpful to get other people's impressions. If someone thinks I should change a scene in some way, I probably won't do what they say but it might make me think of a different idea! If I had it my way, I would get feedback from 1000 people!
Your understanding of the story was very good. It told me that it conveys most of the message that I'm trying to administer. But, the problem for me right now is that I feel like I am so close to seeing the real version of this script. It's like I'm on top of a building and if I could just jump off, I'd be able to do the finishing polish that I know is on the ground. But there's a barrier that's too high for me to climb. Your original comment about the line that alludes to "experience" almost did it, but it's still blocked for me unfortunately... ||
hasty linden
I mean that my formula is missing a power. It's interesting that you would choose this analogy, I assume given the content of the script. That aspect is something that nobody has commented on yet, which makes it so I don't know if I've gotten away with it or if it doesn't matter.
Also, the pages are slightly off... They need to be fixed.
hasty linden
lol ok. Thanks!
hasty linden
What do the highlights mean!
hasty linden
lol the "PRE-LAP" and "not a PRE-LAP" had me dying
also close one there mr. nut
i'm still laughing
hasty linden
So, you wrote these notes from memory or upon first reading? I'm assuming from memory.
hasty linden
Thanks for the notes! I believe they will help me.
You have spent a lot of time giving me feedback. Do you have something I can read to return the favor?
hasty linden
Also, I have received enough feedback now that some things are clear:
||1. Nobody likes the first act (Which I don't understand, because I really like it! It's the part I've spent the most time on and I just don't get why people don't like it). Okay, I mean, I think I understand. It's because I like not knowing exactly what is happening in a story. It is interesting for me. But nobody else seems to agree... People are just plot addicts. Which is SO BORING. Plot can suck my balls.
- Jesus Christ I'm tired of people telling me that I shouldn't include specific songs because you can't guarantee getting the rights for a song so unless I'm planning on producing it myself I shouldn't include specific songs. Do people really think I don't know this? It is so antagonizing. Shut the fuck up! Why does everyone write notes like the person they're talking to has never encountered "the rules" of screenwriting, before? Like, what is more likely - that I am completely unaware that it's unadvised to include songs in your script, or that I know that and chose to anyway. Does anything in this script imply that I like to write conventionally? This is exactly why I included the Yeat lyrics.||
hasty linden
||Second also, I wanted to ask you, in reference to your notes about Ryan being a big dummy - it is clear to me that he is playing dumb. Right, like, in the scene where he asks about the human dog thing, he does it while also working on a complex design of some sort of device. He is being funny! Just like in the opening scene... This is part of the reason Miracle likes him, because he is able to snap her back into reality and ground her. In this part of the country, at least when I grew up, it was not a positive attribute to act intelligent, especially for a guy. So, what ends up happening is you have men whose personalities are very counter-intuitive. The kind of person who's clearly very smart but acts dumb, who loves whole-heartedly but is also emotionally weak and will do things like slap their girlfriend and booze cruise. Him acting dumb is a form of connection between them.||
hasty linden
Yea tbh I don't really know how to interpret that one, and since it's pointless to debate notes I'm not going to.
The reason I asked that question (and then forgot to actually ask the question) is because I was wondering if you had thoughts on how to make it more apparent. But, if you think that it doesn't fit with the script then it doesn't really matter.
hasty linden
Marigold!
hasty linden
I think a version of the third idea works best. After reading your comment, last night I edited the relevant scenes to make it more obvious about the "inside joke" between them. Also I changed the second page to a new sequence I'd been thinking about for a while which accomplishes more connection. Thanks for the help!
Oh also, something I forgot to mention before in regards to the utility of opinion-based feedback is that some of the most helpful feedback I've ever received was when people were wrong about stuff. They misinterpreted things that happened or thought things were happening that weren't. This is the best idea fuel, because if I like what they were thinking, the bones of it is already there, so it's easy to add to the story.
||A guy who gave me feedback said "...there's obviously this psychic link between the two of them, which is why she's nervous during bingo, and explains the deer scene. I wonder if that could include Ryan somehow being weirdly aware of something being wrong during Miracle's injections."||
hasty linden
I'm not going to explicity say this is happening, but i like playing into it.
hasty linden
No not really. Most of the notes were either by page or by concept.
||I think either would work for me. What matters most is that the person uses language or concepts that connect with me and the story. Like, as you may have seen on the page i posted, you mentioning couples therapy lead to me using it as dialogue for Miracle because it fits with the theme. Probably conversation is better by a little. But I as I said, whatever ends up triggering creative responses from me is what I'm after. Most notes don't make me think very much, you know? A note like "In terms of pacing, I feel the beginning of the story is slow. It’s a lot of similar scenes. Could have been cut down. I definitely think you need to start your story quicker. Apart from that, rest of the story flowed pretty well for me," doesn't help me because it doesn't make my mind wander. I'm not going to go about fixing the problem in the way they're thinking anyway, so it's not helpful. Also, it's borrrrrrring.||
So all in all, probably conversation.
hasty linden
Thanks!
I might as well tell you now... nobody has indicated to me that they caught on to what this script is actually about!
Which is my intention. Hehe!
Guess you'll just have to ponder!
hasty linden
mmm it's more to do with the language chosen
The goal of my writing has always been to help the world! In a perfect society, you'd be allowed to express any opinion through art, not feel like you need to hide it...
hasty linden
||I believe one needs to view life through an inverse lens
Cleanse your mind and body of the sickness that unrids
Synonyms of monumental sins and blenders of inverse micro tropes
You can only see the truth when you view it through a scope||
some poetry gobbledeegoop for you
hasty linden
I guess the mystery will live on!