just roll life mods and mobs, that's what I do at 83
#1┃mirage-league
twin rampart
subtle wagon
do those big mechanic heist lazer monsters count towards this?:
"Corpses of many Heist monsters can now be created with Desecrate."
subtle wagon
What's good about metamorph chests? Catalysts?
subtle wagon
fathom ridge
I find the blight, breach, and legion chests underwhelming
maybe I haven't opened enough of them
sour mountain
they are
open them if you're trying to squeeze out chayula or maraketh stones i guess
other than that... meh
fathom ridge
prophecy/unique chests aren't that bad either
What's the best way to get more grand hiests?
sour mountain
outside of trade? i think engaging in any league content is best
delve's raw drop rate gives you weirdly high amounts of contracts & blueprints
rigid stream
oh i saw vinderi work for the first time
it actually drops items twice
like, exactly twice
the items also have the exact same stats
valid mist
Heist is sadly just a pretty poor concept to begin with, at least the way it's been implemented. No matter how much you polish a turd, it's still a turd. And this aint even a polished turd yet, it's flaky at the edges and has blood mixed in.
verbal crest
wow the length of the heist feels SOOOOOO much better now
valid mist
Still, hopefully this patch makes it better.
rigid stream
like this
valid mist
Shorter heists will go a long way.
valid mist
Undocumented change: reveal costs up 70%
sour mountain
heists would probably be pretty easy to fix imo
neat rover
defeat the unbreakable without being affected by magnetic storm
sour mountain
instead of having you escape through the way you came in, you need to find an alternate route out
verbal crest
I dont know, I know people prefer to complain and meme, but this patch is a massive improvement I can already feel after a handfull of heists
neat rover
SECOND CONTRACT IS ALSO FUCKING BUGGED
verbal crest
whats bugged about it?
drowsy seal
did the reveal costs went up by a crazy amount or am I hallucinating?
I had 20k markers
and all of them are gone
from 1 triple reveal
verbal crest
meh, fix the content first, challanges have all league to be fixed
fathom ridge
so can we go in and out of grand hiests without losing access now?
verbal crest
you have been able to do that since the patch last week
fathom ridge
it's been random for me 🤷♂️
verbal crest
i hasnt been an issue since they made the harbor a private zone
warm lodge
did the countdown get removed? i opened a chest and instantly failed lol
verbal crest
there is a map mod that says that it goes into lockdown immediately
eager terrace
there is a map mod that causes that yeah
copper kernel
did the countdown get removed? i opened a chest and instantly failed lol
@warm lodge there was a contract mod that instantly failed if you maxed alert level
warm lodge
oof
winged vigil
is there any point of rolling contracts
willow marten
I just orb of binding them and go
swift rain
I just hate the "?" Boxes
verbal crest
why?
shell basin
the rewards feel much better now but the crashes aren't fixed 😦
fathom ridge
am I insane or did they ever so slightly rotate the rogue harbor map
swift rain
Must be when they shift the gondola
rigid stream
better rewards, faster doors, still rippy
cunning blade
how much better btw
like we seeing less generic chests and more currency/delirium/fragment etc?
rigid stream
More items in chests, vinderi actually Works, scarabs
verbal crest
its like when they made delirium loot drop at the end of it instead of along the way. its the same general concept and if you didnt like the mechanic before you still wont, but if you did like it, its a huge QOL buff
rigid stream
Havent done enough to give accurate data
fathom ridge
so talisman chests are worth opening now it seems
severe hamlet
I didn't crash before patch, just crashed two times in two heists
fathom ridge
talismans grant passives? did they always do that?
severe hamlet
no, they added random annointment this patch to talismans from heist
fathom ridge
just found one that grants blood siphon, pretty sweet
celest hound
Is it true that if you open more side rooms with the bigger rewards chests, you'll have more mobs on the way out?
severe hamlet
I just got enlighten lvl3 in chest in heist and then crashed 😢
fathom ridge
something tells me talismans are about to be crazy strong
verbal crest
eh
they have the potential to be
but they have to roll INSANELY well and very specifically
celest hound
and still cant be anointed
light adder
but drop anointed
celest hound
oh, did I miss that? is that new?
light adder
patch two hours ago or so
celest hound
I should read 😄
light adder
Always, Brandon sanderson is great .)
vague glen
wew just got a brothers stash from a stacked deck
verbal crest
I wish I had a bigger bankroll, I want to buy a bunch of lock picking in bulk because I think they are going to go up in price. It might be just a small sample size, but the increase in big chest drops seems to have pushed currency chests to another level. Multiple Exalts, divines, exalt shards, ect.
fathom ridge
What do the fragment chests drop?
verbal crest
fragments
fathom ridge
so not worth opening then
verbal crest
I mean, they have some valuable stuff in them
still mural
heist frag chests can have uber uber lab offerings, among other things
verbal crest
map fragments too I believe
neat rover
tbh
they just should move on
and work on new league
and forget about this disaster
let the game die for 3 months its fine
verbal crest
or, you know, people could just play the game and stop complaining about ever little thing...this patch was a huge improvement
still mural
I enjoyed heist before the patch, and still do
verbal crest
^
sonic glen
I'm not sure how people can be so adamant that nobody complain when it's the third week in and the content is just now fully released
still mural
I'm fine with folks complaining. Silly to say this league is a disaster that they should move on from asap though. 
white lodge
are there specific contracts to farm currency?
sonic glen
because nothing can possibly suck now that the patch is out?
neat rover
they cant keep up with 3 month release date anymore.. its time to change
brazen pulsar
It took 3 weeks to get the game playable. Theres room to complain. A lot.
neat rover
atleast 4 months
still mural
I mean, it was playable before this patch, except for the folks with crash issues
sonic glen
playable, as in not randomly bricked grand heists with no ladders to the actual content
that's inexcusable, and it's not wrong to complain about
neat rover
@verbal crest mate, did you even reach maps ?
still mural
think that was fixed last patch, wasn't it?
neat rover
you have no clue how bugged game is..
verbal crest
The patch doesnt need to fix literally everything in the game to be a successful patch. It was a huge improvement. What does further complaining do? They arent done. Just enjoy the improved content for now. No one is saying anything right now that hasnt been said 1000 times in the last 2 weeks. Its just an annoying circlejerk now
sonic glen
they said it was, yet it was still happening to some people
neat rover
stop typing nonsense nudepenguin game is broken
sonic glen
what does further complaining do? communicate to them that we're not satisfied with the quality of either the launch or their fixesw
verbal crest
@neat rover What? yes, i have delerium mod unlocked, what are you even talking about/ Are you trying to discredit me as a casual because i am not livid at GGG?
thats so sad
sonic glen
I'm not livid at them either, I'm just not going to give them the benefit of the doubt
violet nymph
Normal reddit hatejerking
simple beacon
heist content = sit and watch NPC open door, watch door slowly creak open, reopen same doors on way back, watch same doors creak open
its 10% less painful now
still boring af
verbal crest
I have played dozens of grand heists, havent had a bricked one since the first week. i am sorry that is happening to you but maybe its not the experience of everyone
still mural
it's a justified complaint, but it's not that the game as a whole is literally unplayable; it's one part of the league mechanic that's unplayable for some folks
sonic glen
that it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it's okay
you should be mad if it happens to ANYONE
I mean...it's broken
and you're defending its brokenness because it worked for you?
verbal crest
I mean, everyone has different PCs. Maybe try re-install, get a better computer, w/e. Its not just random that it happens to you and not others and part of that is not on GGG
sonic glen
seriously?
simple beacon
if I deck out my heisters in full job speed gear and level them up they should rickroll the doors open so i can trollolol my way in and out
sonic glen
lol, you whine when someone hinted that you were casual, now you're slamming people's rigs?
simple beacon
its so painfully slow
still mural
doors not opening is 100% on ggg
sonic glen
give me a break
still mural
crashes are more complicated, but the door issues are not because of folks setups
sonic glen
you're defending the premier league mechanic NOT WORKING
neat rover
^
sonic glen
please consider why
neat rover
that guy is insane...
verbal crest
lol
sonic glen
I don't care what your rig looks like, as long as you meet the requirements to run the game, heists should have ladders
verbal crest
Im not bitching 24/7 so I am an insane super casual that hasnt even reached maps
Im the insane one here
okay
sonic glen
no, you're insane for giving them a pass on NOT BEING ABLE TO PLAY
that, specifically
which does not require bitching 24/7, which I don't do either
wicked junco
verbal crest
no, what I am saying is that there are a number of possible solutions and a lot of people tend not to look into them and just blame GGG. For example, someone earlier though it was a bug that his heist went into auto lockdown when its a map mod. People would rather jump to conclusions than look for solutions
sonic glen
....yes, I blame GGG for there not being a ladder to the heist zone
who the hell else should I blame?
verbal crest
So consider why it happens for a minority of players and the majority dont have these issues?
still mural
there's a lot of possible reasons for that
sonic glen
literally gamebreaking bugs "only" happen to a minority of players and you think it's fine.
please never design anything, ever
"only a few cars fall through the hole in the bridge!"
"most of them make it to the other side, and faster than going around!"
violet nymph
So consider why it happens for a minority of players and the majority dont have these issues?
@verbal crest the majority may not play heist because the mechanics just suck?
still mural
significant difference when we're not talking about something that is life or death 😂
verbal crest
"Most people are having a pleasant experience" -> game is broken blow it up. You are doing the same thing bro
sonic glen
when you're GGG, your game is your livelihood
still mural
no video game is going to have the safety margins and redundancies of a bridge, lol
sonic glen
a gamebreaking bug like missing heist ladders should have prevented them from launching
in any reasonable development house
still mural
I can't think of the last game I played that didn't have a significant bug on release
sonic glen
the asenath gloves blowing up the player? yeah, whatever, ship it
but gamebreaking bugs? this GGG gets a pass for?
still mural
I would've liked them to fix this particular one sooner, for sure
neat rover
boss challenge achievements are bugged since day 1 i cannot complete them
so i can finally be done with this god awful bugged league
verbal crest
So instead of a massive content patch like this, you would prefer they spend more time fixing the very specific issues for a small portion of the player base rather than making it better for most players. They arent done. This isnt the last patch of the league. If it was you would have a point. And I am sorry you are having a poor experience, but thats not the experience of a lot of people and they arent going to feel bad about that.
sonic glen
Yes, I would rather they delay a massive content patch so that when it does arrive, I can actually play it
Seriously?
carmine fiber
how many dissatisfied people are from reddit
violet nymph
the point is these problems shouldnt be in the RELEASE we all know GGG dont do proper testing and all leagues are rushed BETA
carmine fiber
just polling
sonic glen
nor are you, so why should your happy experience negate not being able to play?
hoary kindle
Also why haven't they fucking added a glove-dropping div card named Lantador's Lost Glove? After all this time? literally unplayable smh
sonic glen
"it's okay if some people can't play, because I can"
how selfish can you possibly be?
do you really have such a lack of empathy?
verbal crest
It happens to a small portion of people, probably under a specific set of circumstances. If the testers dont meet those circumstances, no amount of testing will prevent these things. Every single game ever has bugs for a minority of people. You cant account for ever circumstance.
granite pagoda
why should i give a fuck about random people
carmine fiber
sure u can
still mural
I mean, look at the other end of that and you have an issue as well. "If I can't play it, no one should be able to."
sonic glen
You can't prevent bugs, but you can choose to NOT SHIP THE GAME if people can't play it
carmine fiber
just make a perfect game imo
sonic glen
sorator, that's what reasonable studios do
carmine fiber
simple 😎
still mural
doubt
cunning blade
at all
carmine fiber
that's not what studios do though
sonic glen
if gamebreaking bugs, that prevent people from playing the game, exist in the product, they don't launch it and they fix it
carmine fiber
plenty of games are released with some rare but gamebreaking bug
still mural
again, I can't think of the last game I played that didn't have significant bugs
copper kernel
cunning blade
^
fickle iris
just fix all the bugs at once without it affecting your profit margin 
still mural
see, I can't agree there, cause I am enjoying it, and I know others are too
it's been rough, sure, but I wouldn't call it a failure that everyone should abandon, lol
carmine fiber
if i were GGG, i would simply optimize my profits and also release a league without bugs. simple.
fickle iris
@still mural ye I'm also really enjoying this one, much more fun than harvest
sonic glen
I have enjoyed heists, when I can play them, but that doesn't mean it's okay to launch them in the state that they did
carmine fiber
current GGG is cringe imo, they didn't even release a perfect game and they probably underpriced some mtx that would have made more money
cunning blade
heists was dead on arrival as far as I know for half the playerbase
sonic glen
or the half-assed two weeks of "fixes" that didn't actually improve things
verbal crest
Game is tested by a small subset of people with specific set ups, then released to literally millions of players and some of them have bugs and you are mad that it gets released like that. How can you not see that its impossible to account for everything. Every game releases with bugs. Every game. No game is released 100% polished because thats impossible.
carmine fiber
i did one heist, then i did one more just to confirm it was the wrong decision
now i just sell them
still mural
if you look on reddit, player retention for heist is dead on average for leagues released the past two or so years
so... apparently not @cunning blade
sonic glen
would you please respond to the argument I'm actually making, penguin?
carmine fiber
i like poe, don't you like poe?
cunning blade
people aren't leaving cuz they hoping GGG fixes it
sonic glen
I don't expect the game to be bug-free
cunning blade
mechanic is good, bugs are whats ruining it
sonic glen
I do expect the game to not have bugs that make it nonfunctional
cunning blade
everyone wants to play a functioning heist
carmine fiber
to be fair, did you actually make an argument other than "if there's a bug no one should even play teh game!"
there's a conditional gamebreaking bug, quick, cancel release
cunning blade
@verbal crest dude GGG literally says that they don't even play test the game as a whole
sonic glen
....yes?
cunning blade
they basically just run small tests on individual components
sonic glen
yes, if the game is nonfunctional it shouldn't launch
cunning blade
but don't test for shit once its all put together
sonic glen
the #1 premier league mechanic wasn't functional
still mural
yet again, one part of the game being nonfunctional for some players does not mean the game as a whole is nonfunction or should not be released
sonic glen
you'd think that a designer might care
cunning blade
like literally 0 testing of the actual final game mechanic
violet nymph
@cunning blade dont forget they have said many times they barely have enough time to create new leauges in the time given
still mural
obviously they care, or they wouldn't fix it 😂
cunning blade
yea
sonic glen
"one part of the game" = THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE LEAGUE
carmine fiber
a ladder not working every now and then doesn't mean they need to cancel the entire league
cunning blade
no shit they gonna fix it
carmine fiber
that's some intense privilege
sonic glen
lmao
cunning blade
like its a fucking company
granite pagoda
so what kind of game breaking bugs he's talking about
sonic glen
privilege?
cunning blade
wat u expect? let it rot?
carmine fiber
i am sorry the virtual ladder did not work for you
granite pagoda
cuz i certainly haven't seen any
carmine fiber
and that the entire development team did not cease alll work
to fix your ladder
😔
fickle iris
F in the chat for Mand's ladder
carmine fiber
ladder-buggers, the true oppressed class 😔
ladder-buggers, rise up ✊
we out here
sonic glen
Fine, assholes. Enjoy your scuffed league.
carmine fiber
buggin out on them ladders
still mural
thanks; I am!
carmine fiber
people don't understand
how hard it is
it's day 13 and i still can't get up this ladder, my food supplies are depleting. tell Zana i had a crush on her and i often zoomed in to look at her
sonic glen
I'm just wondering how far up their digestive tract you have to get to think that launching the major league mechanic broken is okay
small intestine, or all the way to the trachea?
granite pagoda
carmine fiber
i'm wondering how far up the ladder you got before you truly broke on the inside
cunning blade
they care enough to not let the league be literally unplayable, the bare minimum to make sure that the company doesn't die lol
sonic glen
lol? that was a comeback rainbow?
verbal crest
broken for a small subset of players*
carmine fiber
i think 3 month dev cycle isn't enough
verbal crest
not broken in general
cunning blade
but having the league mechanic be crashing for a large population when ur this big of a company is still inexcusable
sonic glen
yes broken in general
verbal crest
its not
carmine fiber
harder than people realise
sonic glen
it is
verbal crest
I am playing it jsut fine
violet nymph
hey guys one thing always works perfectly THE MTX !!
cunning blade
@verbal crest yea, maybe a small amount are crashing
neat rover
this guy probably did less than 10 contracts
still mural
I do think 3 months is probably not enough & I'd like to see them move to 4 months instead
cunning blade
but much more are having other issues
sonic glen
and you said an individual doesn't matter
carmine fiber
so the fact that a few people just get a bugged ladder but the rest works is fine with me
cunning blade
like doors not opening
carmine fiber
🙂
verbal crest
running heists, watching football and people QQ about how the world doesnt revolve around them. Im having a fucking blast
still mural
I also think this league had a lot more obstacles than most re: outside events
cunning blade
but not in working condition
carmine fiber
i would like them to fix the ladders, and i'm sure they eventually will. until then i will enjoy my ladderless atlas and delve
delve has high-tech mine shafts
sonic glen
yes, people get to QQ when the game doesn't work
carmine fiber
no chance of bugging out on ladder
still mural
and yet we actually still got endgame content in it, unlike Blight/Metamorph/Harvest (I think? I didn't actually play harvest so idk)
albeit somewhat delayed
verbal crest
but they dont get to tell others they cant enjoy the game because they cant
sonic glen
I never said you shouldn't enjoy the game
cunning blade
or blight
sonic glen
I said it's GGG's responsibility to make sure the game works before they launch it
still mural
you didn't, but someone else in here did, which is who those bits were responding to I expect @sonic glen
neat rover
0 loott
granite pagoda
game works, what's your point
still mural
endgame meaning the bosses they just added this patch
neat rover
wtf ur talking about
sonic glen
they think that because I said they should delay the game so that bugs that make the game not playable can be fixed means that I'm selfishly denying them the ability to play the game
cunning blade
the twins or smth i dunno
sonic glen
that's some twisted logic
verbal crest
@still mural careful, if he finds out you dont have mirror tier gear and can one shot bosses, he might think you are a casual
sonic glen
to cover their own selfishness that has them telling others to stop complaining when they literally can't play
still mural
I mean, it's the same logic you've used, just turned around @sonic glen
verbal crest
how so?
still mural
you were saying we lack empathy for not wanting the league delayed because other folks encounter a bug in one part of the league content
carmine fiber
they can releaase game and fix bugs tho
sonic glen
and the reversal changes the context, because one involves GGG releasing a quality product and the other involves GGG releasing a broken product
cunning blade
by testing? 
sonic glen
you have people defending the broken product because they had it work fine
still mural
we can absolutely respond that you lack empathy for saying that because some folks encounter that bug, the rest of us shouldn't get to play until they fix it
that there is a two way street my friend
verbal crest
you cant account for every setup and computer players will have in in house testing
cunning blade
im not saying it would fix every bug but
verbal crest
what dont people understand about this?
cunning blade
surely having a beta test would solve a lot of issues
sonic glen
yes, gamebreaking bugs should be fixed
sonic glen
how you think they shouldn't is completely beyond me
carmine fiber
how do you suppose they do that without releasing it? 🤔
carmine fiber
just hire like 20,000 devs right?
cunning blade
u could do what other game companies do
verbal crest
how do you beta test on Mand's PC?
granite pagoda
you cant account for every setup and computer players will have in in house testing
@verbal crest then you should delay the realease until games works perferctly for everyone in the world
still mural
yes, they should be fixed, and Penguin is dumb af for saying this particular bug is a hardware issue that should be ignored, lol
carmine fiber
other companies release bugged as shit games too
still mural
but I'm fine with them fixing it post-release
carmine fiber
yeah, but that's different for PoE
sonic glen
other companies suck, too, doesn't mean they or GGG should get a pass
carmine fiber
i don't think you can do that without unfairly advantaging the players int he league
racing/leaguestart is a big thing
imo
still mural
a public beta server, or a closed beta, wouldn't work well for poe, aye
drowsy pulsar
What exactly are you gonna do about it?
carmine fiber
yeah it would be pretty bad imo
drowsy pulsar
Stop playing?
sonic glen
if racing/leaguestart is a big thing, isn't it even more important that the game not brick?
carmine fiber
i think all things considered they do a good job
drowsy pulsar
Cuz that's one persons prerogative
And has little impact on things until a LOT of people do the same thing
carmine fiber
plus, after some time playing PoE you start to realise that you just have to enjoy the game of PoE and sometimes lleagues will be bugged as shit for maybe an entire month
drowsy pulsar
which, so fare, hasn't happened.
granite pagoda
it's a big thing for like 200 people who care about racing lmao
carmine fiber
i do 🙂
still mural
I mean, I'd like it if they could tighten that down a fair bit @carmine fiber
sonic glen
Another prerogative is to complain when the product doesn't work, but you have the "GGG-can-do-no-wrong" types who shout legitimate complaints down
carmine fiber
leaguestat is big for more than 200
i think they need a longer dev cycle, it's that simple
still mural
complaining is fine. saying everyone should abandon the league is dumb.
carmine fiber
or they need to hire a lot more devs
sonic glen
didn't say that either
carmine fiber
the issue is they make their money on league starts
still mural
insulting folks who disagree with you is also dumb
you didn't, someone else did @sonic glen
cunning blade
they do need longer dev cycle
sonic glen
I said that they should have delayed the launch to fix the bugs
cunning blade
they are woking on poe 2, 3.13 and 3.12 at once
carmine fiber
it's pretty hard to get extras on the payroll that don't end up just increasing costs too much imo
yeah
verbal crest
like, at first its fine to be upset shit isnt working right. But they then released a dozen patches and hotfixes over the course of 3 weeks so far. The way people carry on you would think GGG were the fucking Wolcen devs. At some point you have to learn that sometimes in life things just suck for you and not for most other people and you just have to suck it up and find a way around it. It sucks but its life
sonic glen
and maybe make a few more design passes so they didn't have three completely different Heist Leagues in the first two weeks
carmine fiber
and poe2 is not a moneymaker rn
i would like them to keep a profitable and sustainable business model above all else
because if poe dies i willl be lle sad
😢
there is so much fkn content in poe that idc if 1 league mechanic sucks for a bit
sonic glen
if poe dies I'll just wait for d2 remaster
leaden crow
mate just go to reddit and make a thread over there, you won't get the reaction that you want over here
carmine fiber
they always iron it out anyway
cunning blade
@verbal crest the issue we got is that this whole buggy mess got out in the first place, like why did previous leagues go so smoothly bug wise but not this one
sonic glen
reddit is useless
still mural
that being said, I get why they wouldn't want to delay it (folks plan a lot around league launch, delaying this one also delays the next one which can be rough with the winter holidays)
sonic glen
of course they rushed it
cunning blade
what caused all these bugs, that didn't happen with harvest etc
harvest mechanic was a dead beat sure but
still mural
and I also think judging them on the whole based on just this league is unfair, given that their dev environment got fucked all to hell multiple times with covid
verbal crest
@cunning blade other leagues didnt go smoothly, literally every one has huge game breaking bugs. This just has more because its a larger amount of new content added to the game
sonic glen
you don't end up with three complete redesigns of core heist mechanics in two weeks if you didn't rush it
still mural
delirium was pretty buggy at launch
sonic glen
oh, well if every league has huge game breaking bugs, it's totally fine?
still mural
can't speak to harvest, didn't play it
sonic glen
more proof that they need more time between launches
cunning blade
@verbal crest i could run delirium fine on day 1, harvest too, i could run metamorpgs without crashing
every league had bugs
violet nymph
@sonic glen they always redesign the league because their designs are never exactly what the playerbase want
verbal crest
Delirium is considered a great mechanic people run for hours now but on release there was so much bitching about how shitty it ran that people couldnt even play it. Its almost as if patches down the line fixed those issues
cunning blade
no one ain't saying they dont
violet nymph
do you remember metamorph release
sonic glen
design by player whining is crap design
cunning blade
but why the fuck does heist have 10x the bugs any other league had on release
sonic glen
in every game, ever
sonic jacinth
can you leave a grand heist to stash in between each wing
cunning blade
i wouldn't trust it
violet nymph
were you okay with clicking every individual organ in metamorph? lol
sonic glen
your job as a designer is to know better, because you're getting paid for it
violet nymph
clearly ggg was
cunning blade
the instance thing isn't fixed entirely yet apparently@sonic jacinth
@violet nymph that isn't a bug
carmine fiber
synth is definitely the most scuffed release ive had
cunning blade
thats quality of life
still mural
been fine for me @sonic jacinth
verbal crest
@cunning blade you say YOU could run delirium on day 1, but a lot of people couldnt. its literally the same situation as now
cunning blade
a bug is when the doors don't open
sonic glen
lucien honestly I'm surprised that they let flasks and health refill in town, rather than having a flask charge orb dispenser in town with a 10 second cooldown
granite pagoda
you don't end up with three complete redesigns of core heist mechanics in two weeks if you didn't rush it
@sonic glen since when changing few numbers became a complete redesign lmao
sonic glen
removing the alert-on-kill mechanic is a complete redesign
still mural
ehhhhh, the heist patches have been pretty significant changes
cunning blade
@verbal crest except the amount of people who can't run heist is far more than those that can't run delirium, and that's an issue GGG has to address and aren't
sonic glen
you know all those gear mods that do nothing? yeah, that's a pretty core mechanic
it's not a numbers tweak when you remove a mechanic whole
verbal crest
Uh thats not true at all
still mural
delirium had a lot of crashes at launch
sonic glen
and awful performance
still mural
and awful performance outside of crashes, too, aye
cunning blade
delirium was a visual cluster fuck yes
verbal crest
the performance of delirium was awful on release. it caused crashes. Hardcore couldnt even use the mechanic. It was bad. but they fixed it and now its great
carmine fiber
what gear mods do nothing
still mural
entirely separate from the visuals being all grey on grey
carmine fiber
most gear mods have some use on some build tbh
sonic glen
yes, they deserve credit for fixes
still mural
there were mods related to less alert on kill, before that whole aspect got removed @carmine fiber
cunning blade
heist has several different bugs that stopped the mechanic from working entirely tho.
delirium? crashes and performance issues due to the graphics
still mural
that's what mand was referencing
you can't roll those anymore, btw; they're only on gear that was rolled before that patch
cunning blade
so anyway
hows the new rewards for heist chests
cuz ik small chests got gutted but are the big ones that much better now?
still mural
definitely prioritizing getting all big chests and then fitting in whatever small chests I can, now
granite pagoda
same?
sonic glen
some other examples of "...really?" moments: player collision in rogue harbor with the stash in a corner
granite pagoda
idk haven't touched heists since last patch
sonic glen
Oak
restive geode
how you start the new questline?
cunning blade
no idea
sonic glen
get a unique contract drop
still mural
I will say the player collision issue is one I would not expect them to catch in testing
granite pagoda
oak what
still mural
oak had massive life regen on heist release
like, difficult to kill him levels of regen
still mural
and I can see them easily missing the oak issue as well; why would they go back and test that encounter
granite pagoda
idk, mine oak died almost instantly
cunning blade
i was low key concerned about my build dps cuz i thought i was just zdps
violet nymph
oh my god it's so tiny i love it
cunning blade
??
still mural
so I don't really hold those two issues against them
cunning blade
wats the ?
violet nymph
misc items
still mural
generic chest
restive geode
Because "?"
sonic glen
ha, with karst, the reward chest alert is the same as a small chest alert
still mural
cause it contains random stuff and they wanted to change the icon to be a touch more clear or sommat
violet nymph
so i guess anointed talismans are only found in talisman chests or something
still mural
think so, yeah
violet nymph
i thought all talismans would be anointed
granite pagoda
they could've change it to something like 💩 then
sonic glen
yeah, 68+ only for anointed talismans
cunning blade
do karst and vinderi cancel out each others alert bar mods?
still mural
karst lowers more than vinderi raises, but vinderi raises from all sources, not just big chests
better comparison would be vinderi & nenet/tullina
I don't think I have mine at the same level to check, though
also I still don't know if perks scale solely on their first/primary job or on all jobs
sonic glen
I really wish they'd restrict the weapon type rogue items to ones who actually use those weapons
why can I equip projectile damage arrowheads on melee rogues?
still mural
the reason they don't is because each weapon type has different auras it can roll
so you have the option to instead focus on which auras benefit your build and ignore the dps boost to rogues
granite pagoda
rogues can't kill shit anyways
verbal crest
Im wondering it that stacks with duplication brooches
eternal eagle
Perception is broken
Can’t even make it half way thru map lol
Observer totems make it impossiblen
still mural
you just... run past them
tame badger
Vinderi duping loot like a mofo now
still mural
vinderi, or a relevant brooch?
eternal eagle
Can’t run if your a flame dash build
still mural
quicksilver flask?
sonic jacinth
ah vindery
eternal eagle
Flame dash procs the totems
sonic jacinth
ty that makes sense
tame badger
looks like Vinderi works on safes too
still mural
oh, nice
tame badger
heist I just ran, 2/2 big chests, 1/3 little chests, and 1/2 safes duped
verbal crest
My "chance not to generate alert when opening chests" seems to be procing more too. I also THINK I dropped multiple exalts with my regal -> exalt trinket so far. I think they really fixed a lot of the proccing issues
tame badger
that's a lot more than 14%
granite pagoda
lmao i'm dying
sonic glen
what trinket mods do you think are good?
granite pagoda
vinderi's passive wouldn't ever proc on any good chest
verbal crest
depends on what you are doing
granite pagoda
but i get the duplicate on 2 talisman chests in a row
verbal crest
in heists regal -> exalt is obv good
still mural
I got three incubators from a legion chest. 2x primal (talisman) ones. 😦
sonic glen
I haven't gotten many trinkets yet, there's one that has abyss, blight, and fully linked that I'm tempted to take
sonic glen
gems/uniques/quant is the other choice
still mural
use that one while mapping, aye
granite pagoda
rolls are pretty solid though
verbal crest
if there is not an exalt conversion, a marker duplication, or double synergistic mod (item rarity and quant, additional socket + fully linked, additional reward + chance to duplicate that reward type) trinket, I usually go for the currency
jesus
exalt conversion trinkets are 580 minimum
thats over 8ex
granite pagoda
now check the chaos to ex ones
verbal crest
maybe I need to start running all my trinket blueprints....
neat rover
yeah do it please
and later let us know
how many crashes you got
do atleast 30 runs
granite pagoda
is it a challenge?
verbal crest
that mod seems to be super rare
cunning blade
are chaos more common than regals tho
regals seem to drop more often from my chests than chaos
granite pagoda
way more common imo
verbal crest
but
you can only get 1% on that
regals you can get 4%
so I am not sure how the math works out on that
imagine one that had both though
mirror tier
granite pagoda
huh
apparently vinderi works on every single chest
like even the random buckets and such
vague glen
what stats should I look for on rogue gear?
granite pagoda
ok time for grands
sonic glen
why does "monsters have #% chance to duplicate dropped rogue's markers" exist on rogue gear?
still mural
+lockdown time and -alert on chest open @vague glen
yeah, it's a dead mod afaik; was hoping they'd remove it this patch but didn't see a note about it @sonic glen
granite pagoda
🤔
vague glen
thanks
cunning blade
how long yall take to level from 4 to 5
granite pagoda
it should work outside heist right?
cunning blade
feels like it takes forever
sonic glen
it's rogue gear
granite pagoda
~15 contracts i'd say
sonic glen
they don't exist outside of heist
still mural
it's on rogue gear, so probably not @granite pagoda
still mural
ah fudge. forgot to store alts for rolling gear.
granite pagoda
cool design i guess 
cunning blade
15~ lvl 4 contracts or
still mural
not afaik
sonic glen
is it just me or are harbinger rewards bad
neon solar
does this work for my minions?
copper kernel
this is specifically for the rogue that has it on
neon solar
yeah what i though, thx!
somber bison
What does Maximum Alive reinforcements mean?
copper kernel
i assume how many monsters can be alive during escaping
somber bison
Yeah, so the lower the better then right?
somber bison
Eh, I'm getting more fps drops this patch now
granite pagoda
ok heist still sucks
granite pagoda
idk rewards are pretty mediocre for such an unfun gameplay
twin fjord
Is there any resource that lists what each of the rogue's attack type is? I can't tell in the UI
sonic glen
what does a question mark mean for a heist reward chest?
neat rover
random rewards
sonic glen
oh joy
quartz wraith
so chance for a mirror/exalt than other chests
granite pagoda
well i'm up for a little bit of testing
got a few lockpicking contracts, let's see how much i'll get from running them
granite pagoda
bruh
sonic glen
anyone have an updated list of reward types for each job?
cunning blade
wdym updated
sonic glen
they patched it at some point right?
sonic glen
oh.
granite pagoda
i mean it's like the same but half of chests are gonna be garbage
sonic glen
lulz
cunning blade
yea remember when heists were actually rewarding? like the first 2 days
even if they were buggy
now there are both buggy and shit
cunning blade
sure u get the occational good chest but u open up like 10 demolition contracts and get 1 delirium room
mostly generics
granite pagoda
and then it drops one large cluster with 12 passives and shit base
granite pagoda
guess i can't even sell trash contracts now
cunning blade
blights? cheap oils mostly, and metamorph is just depressing
granite pagoda
because game shits them out like crazy and they're not even worth running
cunning blade
i tried running engineering to get at least some maps for map sustain but
got jewel and genrics too
4 engineering contracts later and no maps
valid mist
Contracts are awfully designed
As someone pointed out, they scale with map quantity and shit
And you can get multiple per map pretty easily
So each contract either has to waste a shitlpad of time or not be that rewarding (or both, as is the GGG way)
If there was just one contract per zone they could be a lot better
sour mountain
or if there was some way to make use of multiple contracts
perhaps if you could combine them to create a blueprint 🤔 🤔 🤔
halcyon crater
so is the heist boss released now?
valid mist
The other thing that makes them feel like shit is that the base contracts effectively have no major reward
You just get coins. Fuuun.
Coins which youvneed to soend to run it in the first place...
sour mountain
contracts should have a 0 coin cost
blueprints should be the only thing that needs coins
i think i know how to fix contracts actually, i have a gigantic brain
radiant latch
Yeah I don’t get it. Why break the display case in contracts for the target item and risk losing a full inventory of items when you can simply avoid lockdown and safely return to the beginning? The game is asking me if I want to risk my full inventory for a couple thousand marks. Or am I missing something? Maybe experience for your rogues, but eventually they’re level capped?
sour mountain
honestly i think that you just straight up shouldn't be able to leave the instance without grabbing the heist target
radiant latch
What if the contract target had a decent chance to drop a blueprint? Would that incentivize it enough? Or maybe like you said, can’t leave the instance without grabbing the target.
neat rover
anyone know how is called new contract?
sour mountain
okay so Me Big Fixes League:
- coins only drop from rogues caches and from selling off the relics, and coin drops from rogue caches are trivial - only there to enable portalling to the rogue's harbor
- contracts cost no coins to run
- you have to grab the heist objective to open up the escape route and leave
- lockdown just closes off the other loot chests, not the heist objective. if the timer bottoms out, mobs start piling to defend the objective
also the escape should not be the same as the entrance
uneven raven
is there a new cheat sheet?
sonic glen
"also the escape should not be the same as the entrance" - wow, that sounds so obvious now that you mention it
sour mountain
like it's pretty regular heist stuff
sonic glen
right, I'm thinking Monaco here
sour mountain
someone's a man on the inside, someone's going in the front door, someone's going in the back
classic heist movie things
sonic glen
is there a level limit for oils in rewards? all I'm seeing is metamorph with occasional delirium
radiant latch
Have you unlocked Cassia? Probably has nothing to do with that, but who knows. Otherwise it’s probably just bad luck. 🤷♂️ @sonic glen
sonic glen
yeah, have a few stacks of oils already, running heists in the low 70s
plenty of cassia on maps
can't remember seeing an oil reward in a contract
radiant latch
I ran some high 60 something contracts earlier and got oils
granite pagoda
also the escape should not be the same as the entrance
why though
sonic glen
because backtracking is boring
granite pagoda
like it doesn't make any real difference if you run same layout twice or two slightly different layouts once
backtracking is shit when you're in a map and it's absolutely empty so u can't even refill your flasks or whatever
in heists u get a ton of monsters to kill skip at least
the best idea i've seen so far is one where you start in the artifact room, grab it and go fight your way to escape
and you can still loot chests and reward rooms for increased difficulty
so basically delirium reskin
sour mountain
i mean "escape is different than entrance" is basically putting the thing in the middle
now that i think about it
- the objective room is 'safe'
- the objective room contains the bonus rewards
- the approach to the objective room has some kind of gameplay other than "open boxes"
okay guys i'm engaging my omnibrain right now
what if the way in... is a lab trial
(but with different, new and interesting shit rather than old lab shit)
the gameplay is learning patterns and avoiding traps
granite pagoda
1% league pog
idk, if they really have to stick to the current version at least make doors not that cancerous
sonic glen
that's what a heist league would be, but labs prove that poe players don't have the patience to run that as endgame content
I was expecting actual hazards that the rogues would bypass to speed us up
shortcuts, etc
instead it's just a simple line, with blockages
and nine skills that all do the same thing
radiant latch
Maybe off topic a bit, but I feel like a heist theme centered on grave robbing or tomb robbing would be pretty cool. As it is now all heists feel like bank or vault break-ins to me, but I think they could diversify with high profile tombs guarded by skeletons and ghosts, etc.
sour mountain
the problem with labs is that labs doesn't tie into anything
granite pagoda
like your community hates doors and asks you to make them auto open/breakable/remove them at all on daily basis
sour mountain
this is the first league in a while that will actually do anything in labs
restive geode
Is this the contract for the new questline|?
sour mountain
honestly i think contracts are part of the bung design
granite pagoda
and then you make a league where you have to open like 10 doors each time, it takes like 5 seconds at best and you have to rely on AI which bugs out like 30% of the time
sour mountain
instead of contracts
you just find an entrance in your map with a rogue next to it and they're like "HEY BRO ITS HEIST TIME" and you do a short heist
neat rover
@restive geode ye
restive geode
k thx
sour mountain
get the trinket, get some coins, get some loot
you spend coins to refine blueprints
sonic glen
they considered that wiz, but they didn't want it to feel like a zana mission that still isn't a map
neat rover
where did it drop?
sonic glen
what I don't understand is why blueprints aren't the result of contracts, directly, rather than random drops and unlocked with coins from blueprints
sour mountain
blueprints should just straight up be a reward type in side rooms in contracts
sonic glen
or buyable for coins...
sour mountain
or perhaps they are just in the final room
granite pagoda
idk it's so tedious to play league mechanic
the only one type of contract that isn't complete garbage is lockpicking
sonic glen
put safes in all the end rooms, not just one tileset, and have them have a chance for blueprint drops
and have them nowhere else
sour mountain
i think the tedium this league is just... going into the heist room is boring
sonic glen
well they made that a ton faster
you can ignore all the trash, and there's only a few stops on the side rooms now
granite pagoda
i don't see much difference tbh
restive geode
@neat rover dropped from the heist stash in maps in a t14 map
raw pumice
how can I spawn the heist boss?
granite pagoda
i had all almost all rogues at lvl 5 with as much job speed as i could get before the patch
sour mountain
if the infiltration phase was avoiding traps and managing patrols i think it'd be enjoyable
granite pagoda
but it's still so unfun
sour mountain
oh, also
raw pumice
anyone knows how to make the heist boss?
raw pumice
I really want to see the boss
cunning blade
maps are too narrow to avoid patrols
sour mountain
add vents
and the patrols run to press the emergency button if they see you!
among us league!
cunning blade
they shud have made several paths from the start to the end and back
but they just made a linear obstacle course
sour mountain
several paths from start to finish
your rogues help you manipulate those paths
cunning blade
yea
sour mountain
👍
cunning blade
that's for the so called sneaky heist style
granite pagoda
also jobs are so unbalanced
sour mountain
if you want to play "punch everyone in the dick"
cunning blade
either that or they should have double downed on the bank robbery style
sour mountain
you take vinderi, tibbs and huck
cunning blade
and have u start on the reward room and full alert already
sour mountain
if you want to sneak around in vents, you take lockpicking and agility dudes
granite pagoda
lockpicking is superior in every aspect
cunning blade
like that unique contract
sour mountain
gianna and niles are for stealing shit in plain sight by disguising you as one of the monsters & mind controlling all of the problems
granite pagoda
it has (chance for) currency rewards, karst never bugs out and his animation is the fastest of them all
sour mountain
i think regular contracts would be more interesting if ilvl 68+ contracts had 2 character slots
granite pagoda
also you can collect every single chest in the heist and not get alarm
granite pagoda
and then you have like what, armour and jewelry as main reward in other jobs
like wtf
sour mountain
also if the syndicate was also trying to steal shit that could make for an interesting encounter but idk
sonic glen
all these neat differences in the skills feel like casualties of schedule
sour mountain
yep
restive geode
In case someone is curios what dropped
sour mountain
tf is that
"projectiles cannot collide with enemies at close range" so you just cant hit them?
restive geode
Just don't be close 4head
granite pagoda
"projectiles cannot collide with enemies at close range" so you just cant hit them?
@sour mountain basically yes
sour mountain
anyway yeah heist thematically has a lot of potential that hasn't really been capitalized on
casualty of limited scope of league mechanic i guess
granite pagoda
also they spend twice amount of time working on it
granite pagoda
VA is just amazing
sour mountain
i laff at reskinned argus but lots of other models are new
if the next league was like
security league and these characters became the enemies? a+ plot twist
but yeah idk. feels like a casualty of the league system. heist is so much more complicated than conquerors of the atlas, but that's a core system.
or should i say, content dense
granite pagoda
betrayal 2.0
sour mountain
i like that the syndicate characters will show up in the rogue's harbor, and there are Maloney cross references
granite pagoda
well i wouldn't call it complicated tbh
toxic pine
the league mechanic has 0 depth
sour mountain
nah its not complicated you're right
toxic pine
i'm sure they made a bunch of assets, but the gameplay loop is garbage
granite pagoda
yeah you can do contracts for 3c worth of coins or grand heists for 1c replicas which are even worse than original item
sour mountain
actually idk what i'm thinking i was gonna say "if they turn around and say heist is poe2's ascendancy mechanic that might work" but it just wouldnt work
toxic pine
i'm sure they'll re-use almost all of the assets they made for this league
granite pagoda
imagine grinding to get ascendancy choices
toxic pine
and that's probably the only thing from this league going core
granite pagoda
that would be wild
sour mountain
if they want to make a league exciting
they should add new cluster jewels as rewards
that gets everyone's engine revving
toxic pine
they have to be actually interesting though
not this "900 gems" when maybe 30 of them are interesting in any way
and the other hundreds are the most boring, irrelevant change
sour mountain
alt quality gems are...
...yeah
i wonder how the game'd go if ggg moved enchants from helm to gem
and made alt quality effects enchants as well
maybe it's just me but the game is suffering from being overloaded with all these different bits
toxic pine
the game is suffering from 3 month dev cycles
it's real obvious that heist was supposed to be way more than what we got
sour mountain
yeah i'm feeling the misbalance between harvest and heist
harvest was... gently put, quite slim
heist definitely feels underfed
toxic pine
harvest had no real content
sour mountain
harvest had new monsters and the oshabi fight
toxic pine
heist has no real content, though it took longer for it to be obvious
sour mountain
heist has... a lot of content in the sense of tilesets, monsters, item interactions, voice acting, etc etc
but the gameplay loop yeah doesnt do the effort justice
its kind of a shame since the breakout phase of Heist is actually quite fun
toxic pine
yeah, the only contracts i liked were the unique ones, which are just the escape
but that's still like 30% waiting for doors to open, so...
sour mountain
infiltration used to have something going on when killing raised alert
which did feel bad
but having nothing also feels crap
waiting for doors to open kinda works when the situation is such that the door-opening builds tension
neon solar
+1 LVL Still does not work -.-
granite pagoda
ok i have this many chaos worth of trash in my dump tabs because i'm too lazy to fully clear them
time to jump into lockpicking and see what i get
valid mist
Are you guys misinterpreting what it does?
I'm pretty sure it just makes their level higher in the zone
copper kernel
yeah
valid mist
so instead of being level 83 in a level 83 contract they'd be level 84
copper kernel
theres a different mod for her skills
valid mist
in other words, totally fucking useless.
granite pagoda
i think this is the best one i have
and then it's completely worthless because i don't have markers on my filter lmao
valid mist
3% additional unique, 1% fully linked, 8% duplicate rogue chest markers
verbal crest
Vinderi OP
valid mist
you need Vinderi at 5 anyway
like they're pushing this guy so hard
Is he the only Rogue with 2 level 5 skills?
strong spire
yep, he's the only 1
pure hound
anyone found any info on the new unique contract?
sullen scroll
is there a minimum level for the maps to spawn the quest contracts for niles,gianna and vinderi?
valid mist
no idea. Maybe level 81?
I think one of the quests was a levvel 81 one, though I don't know if they scale with the zone you find them in or not.
torn isle
I got them all, and not in yellow maps yet.
separately, for those perception totem things, they can't be destroyed?
idle agate
Im convinced you cant destroy them
Last I tried with toxic rain
But watching rogues killing it worked
So i thought it was a bug
torn isle
also, are the perception totem things the ones which pulses a red ring thing, or something else?
cunning blade
apparently they are immune to toxic rain dot @torn isle @idle agate
not sure if its limited to toxic rain too
idle agate
Pretty fucking dumb for it to be immune to a single skill
Out of many
Even then, why limit killing it at all
idle agate
Cant relate moved back to standard.
cunning blade
u acting like people ain't playing heist league like standard already
vague glen
I just run past them now. Fairly easy to time it right with the uodate
granite pagoda
uuuh i might have fucked up
i was just blasting through lockpicking, picking up only currency rewards and skipping fragments because what can possibly drop from them right, like just sac frags and maybe pale court if you're lucky, whatever
but then i realized they drop scarabs
OOPSIE
neon solar
and propably shaper/elder/ uber elder frags
next epoch
I mean, you know how it is... every breakable you didn't open would have had a mirror in it
vague glen
Just gotta break all the things
next epoch
(greetings from the herald of lightning squad)
the point is, don't spend too much time worrying about what you could have had
torn isle
Question: does the "duplicate rewards from chest" thing duplicate ALL the items in the chest when triggered, or duplicate randomly each item?
valid mist
all as far as I can tell
torn isle
aww, duplicate uniques don't give chance orbs? :C
kinda reduces the value of the dupe unique drop gear...
question: do we get more trinket slots later, or only the one?
cunning blade
high pike
what's this? first time i see this lol
rapid shell
So, is heist worth doing now?
granite pagoda
depends
livid lake
they changed the image of the 'box' rewards
so show they are just a random box choice
river heath
Bring different rogues to different jobs, seemed to do it for me. They brought a friend along when I ran some heists and after that they were unlocked 🙂
quaint shadow
Do you get reveals from contracts?
deft girder
Yes.
short canopy
so how's the new update
swift rain
Cant level via heist
short canopy
didn't they increase exp or something ?
swift rain
Do you alch your contracts?
void wing
There are some brick mods too in the pool.
Like, mods that brick the contract and you have to roll over.
novel hamlet
I thought the size of heist contracts was reduced by quite a lot?
Is this normal?
swift rain
I thought the size of heist contracts was reduced by quite a lot?
@novel hamlet Nop
My "norm" has been a data of around 10~15 contract tho
I've only seen 2~ like that size
novel hamlet
That contract is a lvl 83 base. Didnt have any real mods on it. I expected it to be way smaller than how it is on that pic.
tulip pivot
what are the mods i should be looking for on rogue gear now?, and does the mods on each item slot differ or can you stack alert
rigid stream
you can stack alert and are locking for - alert gained
tulip pivot
nah not in slot like the actual slots
rigid stream
yes
tulip pivot
oh
rigid stream
Cloack Brooch Weapon Jobslot
tulip pivot
and can i have the alert mods on all of em
rigid stream
uh no, i think cloak can have it straight up and otheres only conditional
rigid stream
only cloacks can roll explicit - alert
but jobitem can gice chance to not generate alert on opening chests
tulip pivot
you wouldnt be able to just make me a trade filter with the right mods on it would you for one of the items
opal sparrow
sigh. agility is bugging out again
opal sparrow
if tullina isn't opening doors. is there a fix for it? or is it just keep trying until she opens the door?
opal sparrow
she's standing right next to the lever lol
i think the game is confused as to whether she is supposed to kill the guard or open the lever herself...
well okay... i just walked back and forth with her on the other side of the door and she killed the guard. then i tried to open the door again and it worked lol
rigid stream
stuck horizon
Guys~° which rogue use spell damage and which rogue use projectile damage ?
pulsar notch
Heist bad lmao
barren crescent
I'm digging these shorter heists
jolly radish
is it true you dont lose xp in heists
when you die?
surely from 95+ you can farm the 82/83 heists for decent xp if so?
livid lake
of course you do
leaden crow
lesser doors = gud
rigid idol
fierce torrent
good for leveling thats for sure