#1┃mirage-league
1 messages · Page 264 of 1
i really ought to craft some boots
it's so god damn easy
you could just annul every mod on some rare hunter boots and just do life, speed, crit, and cold/lightning
and remove/add until perfect
well, don't do life until you've filled the suffixes of course
If I remove/add a crafted resist, can the new one wind up t1?
yes, i think
yes
Thanks
but also t6
anyone here experienced in blisterfruit farming?
I need to know whether or not I should use fortune blossom if i wanna maximize the number of "remove & add new influence mod" crafts... it seems that using the fortune flower will give me more remove-only and augment-only crafts, but doesn't seem to affect the spawn rate of the remove&add... which exactly is rarer? Am I actually reducing my number of "remove&add" by using a fortune blossom?
Remove+add is, afaik, the common one. Think of it as a targetted chaos, whilst the others are targetted anulls/exalts seperatly so should be more rare (?)
coz I got this shield and I need to change the Energy Shield block to Reduced Mana Reservation.
Using a remove-only and then using an augment-only would be 2 seeds' worth of crafting, while using a "remove&add" would only be 1 seed. Would it be wise to maximize my "remove&add" by not using a fortune blossom?
coz if it's an augment-only/remove-only, i'd be better off using it somewhere else... right?
does anyone have any experience in this department? lol
I'd use a blossom. Remove and add is rarer than chaos or alc.
And it's no huge loss if you get a bunch of adds
hmm... yeah. i'm worried that i'll only get "reforge" options if i don't use blossoms
i'm trying to optimize so that I can get the mana reservation mod with fewer seeds, and reserve my "augment" and "remove" on other crafting projects :x
i'm also considering deleting one of the resistances, slapping on "prefixes can't be changed" and then use a "remove a random defence mod" so that i don't have to splurge on a "remove influence mod"
i just had a add random influence to normal/magic/rare weapon, what weapon should i roll influence too?
i'd roll it on an ilvl86 fleshripper or maybe an imbued wand/thicket bow
i feel that weapon influence is the least valuable of the 3 blisterlord crafts
has anyone tried to abuse the fracture craft by making items with 2 essence mods?
lol
@frigid venture people have been doing that since release lol
what overpowered essence mod combinations are there anyway
Is it possible to buy horticulture crafts? I really don't like the farming mechanic
Hmmm. That seems a bit sketch.
it is
Why are the stations not tradable?
because theyre not intended to be
@vivid notch
dont ping ggg
haha
If the crafts were easily tradable, itd make an already busted mechanic absolute insanity.
Yeah, I understand. I am just trying to craft some tailwind boots and its so much easier with harvest.
The mechanic isnt difficult or even time consuming once you set up your gardens
Yeah I may just take the time. Thanks for answering my questions guys.
I'm trying to get some alva missions with the atlas mission seed, has anyone done these seeds before and know how common alva is compared to other masters?
if i remove a mod with a harvest craft I can add a new mod with another craft even if it is enchanted with a chrafting bench echant right?
yes @haughty jay
is there a good garden layout for casual player? and how could i get more lifeforce. its empty all time.
Plant more seeds to get more lifeforce
T2+ seeds yield much higher lifeforce
There are prolly 2 million garden layouts floating around. Check reddit/google for which one fits you
Hey anyone knows approximately when harvest is gonna end?
does anyone know which attack is the one that t4 yellow boss (cat thing) does when it makes a vine circle, after which closing spikes errupt? It does a shitton damage to me and I die sometimes to that (mostly I notice it too late because of visual clusterfuck) https://poedb.tw/us/Namharim%2C_Born_of_Night
@jaunty wadi about one month and some days
there's last rip clip from that yellow t4 seed boss, I'm not sure what I failed there, I don't know what damage numbers and types that attack does with spikes and whether it was a visual bug with first ring being much smaller than other ring that appears shortly later (I thought it was 2nd t4 boss, but checked later and there was none) https://gfycat.com/magnificentthickgalago
so far I know I failed with preemptive heal flask spamming, forgot it eats charges even with full hp
You got hit 2 times and poison dotted you dead
idk what exactly hit you, but there are 2 chunks
This is the last frame on your gif that you were alive with
I see a lightning attack
There are also those explosions on the ground
you mean zaps? That's my tempest shield skill, it zaps enemies when blocks
I see one spike
or rather, cluster?
well, I'm not sure what I could do in this situation
how do you time running away?
I personally think the grounding where you can't use movement skills is the deadliest attack of the bosses
makes you too vulnerable
that movement skill block is fully covered by circle the boss does, isn't it?
yep
I wonder if kaom root would prevent that slowdown?
idk was that the reason for your death necessarily, but certainly would help to be able to use a dodge skill
it should down to 0%
I also noticed there are 2 circles, which threw me off
normally there's one circle left by boss
2nd circle, bigger, appears like 1-2s after boss circles around
Yeah idk does the boss create circle of death
its certainly tied somehow to that circle and unable to use movement skills
you can see multiple green pops in the circle
hm, yeah, I wonder if it's doable to walk around them while trying to leave this circle of death
a lot of time when I'm near the edge of circle, I'm hoping I'll be out in time, only to get blasted 😛
I'm thinking that biggest part of that boss dmg is phys, if it was chaos, my 90% res probably would mitigate it a lot, but I have 24% phys red, that would be probably weakness in case phys is major part of yellow boss attacks
in any case, thanks, I need to pay attention to healing flask timing, not sure how to start running away earlier, I usually react when I see a circle forming or I'm moving very slow
Does this boss really drain your flask charges?
I'm playing PF so I always have Quicksilver available to zoom out
No, it was just my preemptive flask spamming to outheal burst dmg those spikes do
but I wasn't aware it eats charges even while being full hp (probably bleeding flask mod does that)
so next time I gotta to start spamming flask when spikes are about to pop
I can't tell if the boss is doing anything to your flasks or not
all but life flask are empty at start of gif
then it seems you spam it down in 1-2s
yeah, fight was taking time before clip, so ran out of charges myself
yeah, panic spamming 😄
what life flask you got?
basically less instant heal + some regen?
I've found Catalyzed (50% inc recovery rate) to be really potent with chars that have flask effectiveness
yeah
at least I don't find myself in situations where spamming the insta flask would change the outcome
vs panic reaction + run the fuck out while having slightly higher total healing from single flask press
i just checked map mods and one mod caught my attention
turbo?
31% less aoe for both players and monsters
I wonder if less aoe = faster circle closing
whole list, but I don't see anything affecting seed boss that much really, it doesn't do fire dmg
yeah, just poe stuff, but I try to understand from clips as much as possible and improve
no golem/summon with me, so shouldn't be problem?
at least some monsters feel extra scary with chain mod even without any summones
idk
interesting
when do you start running away from that circle? Does it give you sound clue, or?
I could be spewing total bs right there, but just how I've perceived. Love if someone can debunk it
I usually notice the vines first
first time I noticed on clip that this boss spawns some sort of giant flower bulb in middle?
the "flicker" has sound cue
That kind of spawn + making a clearly indicated zone certainly sounds like arena wipe™
Like what would it otherwise do? Just unable to use movement skills
lemme just stand here
This is with my PF
5.5k life bar goes 📈
wups missed a config 😓
i like bubbling over cataclysed on PF as you get both buffed instant as panic button and buffed over time recovery
dang yo
but I bet poe is sometimes to you "nice, but dead from oneshots won't heal hahaha brrr"
Yeah happens, but I build my chars fairly tanky. I'm too slow to pull of mathil survival
77% allres, 90% chaos res, 75/74% glancing blows block, still dying sometimes, rip
28k ehp on phys dmg, still that boss two taps me or so
can't be helped I guess, that game is very spiky
You got heal on block?
Yeah that should put your char to be tanky
it's, first time I reached 98lvl
but sometimes I just get dumpstered haha
mostly to my misplays though, these can be improved easier than those weird rips from odd game numbers/mechanics that are sometimes hard to figure out from clips
i have lightning leech too
I can't tell were you too slow or was the boss just oddly fast, but standing in Death circle™ certainly doesn't sound like a play you should make on any char
well yeah, there's some lag before I react to seeing boss circle
I really wish grove had treatment on t4 bosses like oshabi
remove all that visual junk for fight
anybody else getting just an obscene amount of time limited zana missions after the patch? or was that always the case and i just didnt notice. like, im getting 1 non time limited mission per batch, and there is usually at least 7 maps to choose from
yeah, I have the same, my guildmates too. Seems only unique and guardian maps aren't timed events @hard totem
the major problem i could see from this is that since guardian maps cant roll time limited, all the other options are pushing them out, making them more rare(havent seen a guardian mission since the patch). collecting video evidence right now by running a bunch of mission to report it later
I have had bazillions of guardian maps since patch, no changes for me
like every 1-2 zanas, I get option to select guardian
but I have 150+150 map completions thuogh
side note, i cant wait for tab affinities. sorting inventory every 1-2 maps gets tedious, and i dont really like dump tabs
it's not confirmed this idea will be implemented @hard totem. Sorry for bursting your bubble 🙂
I just resoluted to quad dump tab and doing general sort outs every 10-20 maps
oh yea, i am fully aware they might never do it, it says so right there in the announcement post, but a man can dream
hey can the add influence to an item craft add shaper and elder?
or just the four conqueror inf
@barren wadi all of them, 6 influences total
Yea my zana yesterday all had time limits is possible.
There are some missions which can't be timed like trial.
Seems they bricked it the opposite way with the 'fix'.
It was bugged to never have timed missions.
is there a reason to pop t4 gardens on high quant t5 map vs high quant t16 map?
I'm wondering if loot from seed is determined by what kind of seeds are planted (ilvl, etc.), so area zone for popping wouldn't matter
at what level exactly do the 'OP leveling harvest crafts' like exalts etc. start tapering off to their endgame rarities? i'm starting HC atm and I think I should probably farm them for a while before reaching mapping because of how easy it is to do certain really good crafts at early level
Higher is better. They are fairly common at high lvl as well
hey guys i need nice garden plan can some1 send some tips
check the pins
guys, how does fortune flower works? it says it gives me 3 of the rarest chosen craft from the seed in his radius
buy like, if i plant speed seeds, it grants me his 3 rarest crafts? or what?
any1 op player could help me ?
Don't ask to ask! Post your question here so that people actually know if they can help. It's also better to discuss your question publicly so more people can chime in or learn! That's why these channels are here!
Idk if someone has done this before, but I reckon someone has. I don't play the game this league but I enjoy watching Empyrian gambling so I made this graph
<@&174997701513969665> Can someone please allow me to post a picture here?
@weary raptor you can now
ty
This is the odds graph of gambling div cards, 1 at a time (4 times in a row) vs 4 at a time
the outcomes are at the bottom
I found it interesting to analyze really. If you don't get hurt from losing the 4 cards or even 3, putting in 4 at a time is better, but if it hurts then 1 at a time is wiser
moar graphs
set new implicit to cluster jewel will erase my current cluster jewel or add a new mod?
if im thinking of the same thing, the seedcraft that adds an implicit to any jewel, its going to add an implicit that isn't relevant to the cluster jewel's mod. So like, 1% movement speed as an example
the cluster jewels are considered enchants
if its specifically talking about an implicit on a cluster jewel in the text though, it might be referring to changing the jewel altogether, but i havent seen anytthing like that
it just adds or rerolls a new implicit. enchants are not touched
Just got my first few t4 seeds...what's the strategy to using them? I should probably grow one asap at least right? to get the boss ticker going? after that do a full patch of t4 like i did the other tiers?
You should not do a full patch of T4s. You would have to fight 24 bosses at once.
Did the one, wasnt bad
Can probably handle a few at once. A full patch is probably risky though and so much work down the drain lol
I almost didnt make it on a full T3 with 3 flowers .. i used the whole map just to recharge my life flask 😉 was around 280k lifeforce in the end .. but man .. i had to get each boss separated .. and the esp. the blue once are so fast ...
3 flowers?
3 different buff ... not sure which
They dont stack no?
not the same one ..
I know
but a fortune flower a lifeforce flower and a horticrafting flower ....
which i guess also increase the difficulty of the bosses!?
Weird i could have sworn i seen them not stacking
a fortune bud and a fortune flower dont stack .. but fortune flower and lifeforce flower does imho
coz its a different buff
Why does it seem like my seeds quit growing is there a set limit you can have ?
is this for t1 or t2+ seeds
they have a range, its like +/-5 levels of seeds that the map have to be
or you run out of lifeforce for your t2+ seeds
Oh might be a level range thing
Yup got them running a red map and am doing whites for atlas now thanks m8
Is there a reason why a level 68 T1 seed won't advance a growth cycle when entering the grove from a level 67 zone?
Weirdly, it only seems to be level 68 T1 seeds I'm having a problem with not advancing in growth cycles.
Seems weird. I've had it work with a zone 5 levels lower usually.
Or maybe the +5 lvl range only occurs in maps?
Am I blind or is there not a stash in the grove
there is not. since you can access the grove in maps, having a stash in it would allow unlimited access in maps. there's a button to click to use items from your stash while crafting
hello. Is here anybody?
So I'm in act 8 and am doing fine with just 2 collectors of each type, harvesting tier 1 seeds and some tier 2s. When did other people start getting more complex setups with more collectors and dabbling in tier 3 and tier 4 seeds?
anytime, and u dont even need those complex minmax farm setup unless u plan on buying seeds, u can modify the t2 farm to be able to grow t2-4 seeds there
Well my farm for each type right now is just two collectors kept just far enough apart so that their areas don't overlap and then a dispenser in the middle between them. I suppose I could put two dispensers in the middle instead of one so that two different life force types can be dispensed.
You will need to set up some more dispensers as you start growing more T2+ seeds at once, or any T3+ seeds
T3 seeds need dispensers of both other colors, T4 seeds need all three dispensers (including their own color)
I suppose I'll do that once I get a decent amount of t2 seeds
@sand pulsar you can store three crafts in a horticrafting station. There is a blue seed that doubles lifeforce, plus the lifeforce flower so using those with a field of t2+ will gove you plenty of lifeforce to make extra horticrafting stations
do blossoms that grant the same effect stack?
No
Thank you
does the "Add a random influence" harvest craft add the influence + an influence mod or just the influence?
just the influence
Is it possible to change the behavior about whom seed caches belong to when playing in party? It is realy weird that who found it first - takes it.
no, and no its not by who found it first
Hm, I pretty sure it is
it belongs to the instance owner - the person who created the instance
Ok, thanks for that clarification. But I still think it's weird
It's actually the only reason why we started to play separately with my friend
it's sad, yes :x
What's the name of that unique amulet that has effects depending on how much is remaining of a curse's duration?
Nevermind
for the fortune bud, blossom, and flower how do i know what are the rarest options for each seed
you can somewhat guess but its supposed to be obfuscated
hey, if I want to optimize harvesting, all that matters is map quantity? Tier doesn't matter? I'm thinking if I should just get 100% quant t10 map and harvest
also, does pack size from map affect how many mobs spawn from seeds?
Pack size doesnt matter as each seed is one monster.
Map quant does affect T2 drops, but map also map tier ( it think, or is map tier only for the seed cache T1 drops ? ) so maybe do it a higher then t10.
I guess it affects t2 drops indirectly through map quantity?
When people sell a harvest craft
How are they doing that? Can you trade a hortaculture station?
Damn aight
do people tend to sell specific seeds or do they just mixed bag them
is there a way to price em?
i need attack seeds something fierce
but not quarry lvl ones, at least lvl 72
i swear when i go into trade chat people just type random numbers for their seed prices 😄
2 for a chaos is the common rate for most t1s
Use the trade site, ig trade chat is 95% scammers
right on
Q about harvesting,.
Will the dispersers disperse if both requirements aren't met?
Wasting life force?
no
Oh excellent thank you
Is it possible to remove chaos res and add there lightning?
you already have lightning
Fire*
the harvest option where i can change a unique into a random unique weapon, can they change into every unique weapon, or just the same itemlevel as the first item ? or is my level the factor ?
@violet nymph Yes, but I think only by doing it in two steps (first targeted annul the chaos then target exalt the fire)
good morning. Is there anybody?
No
Can anyone name the seed that gives beachead map for harbringer uniques?
i got a fortunate flower....should i wait using them until im late game ?
you could sell it for good c if you dont craft things yourself
Crafts are usable on items +/- 10ilvl of the craft ilvl up to i75crafts. i76 works on items upto i100
is there a list of possible Synthesise Implicits from T4 vivid?
search for synthesis implicits on poedb
I definitely think that Harvest should be pretty heavily nerfed before it goes core. It goes beyond just making so many currency items useless, it straight up trivialized the game. I beat Kitava in only around 2 minutes with no deaths and no real grinding throughout the game because I could just Harvest craft a 5-link chest and amazing wand with little effort.
nice meme
the campaign is basically a tutorial anyway
I also believe they should nerf heavily the starting wand because i beat hillock within 2 minutes with fireball on that 2L
I have played through PoE several times before and seen footage of streamers who were masters at the game. It was never anywhere near this easy.
I honestly did consider if it was just the fact that I knew more about the game, had a better computer, or the class was just plain better to explain why I was having such an easy time. But after completely overwhelming Kitava, I can definitely say it's too easy.
on a more serious note
i can 1 minute kitava with spellslinger on pretty much any class
with awfull gear
so I don't think using a campain boss for balance is any usefull
@sharp iron i will be ok with harvest being nerfed when there are other forms of crafting put in that arent just gambling
also, kitava is uh
not the best bar to measure this
Is kitava the boss in the acts?
why the hell here is no seed sell buy channel? where is that thing?
"wild spikeback grain" has 4 outcomes (reroll keeping prefixes, reroll keeping suffixes, reroll more likely to get same modifier types, reroll less likely to get same modifier types)
which ones are the 'rare' ones, i'm not sure whether to use a fortune blossom or not
oh ok i found a website that claims keeping prefix/suffix are the rarer ones, hope its right
"I beat kitava in less than 2 minutes and without dying"

That's like
Twice as long as normal people
Honestly the difference between t3 mods and t1 mods is marginal
You can already do most of the content in the game half asleep in t3 gear.
With the right build
I think the only change to harvest should be harder to get influence mods
Tailwind taking almost 0 effort shouldnt go core for example
But being able to reliably craft t1 resists on a belt or something wouldnt be game breaking and might make room for more build diversity
reliably crafting T1 resists is hella gamebreaking
it frees up so much room for other suffixes
Did they nerf Kitava at some point? I've heard people saying that Kitava was extremely difficult at launch and joking around that Cast on Death support was how you beat him when he was released.
they lied
Does "Increased Quantity Of Drops" increases the chance to get higher tier of seed from harvesting (more drops - more tries of dropping a higher tier seed in my understanding)? As I understood, "Increased Rarity" should not affect the chance of them.
kitava was never difficult
he has very damaging attacks especially if you go there yolo in softcore with very little life
so people didn't know the pattern
and got bopped
just like the first time i fought dominus a long time ago with a friend we got killed like 10 times by the acid rain and stuff because we didn't know what did damage and what didn't
same thing happens with every new story boss tbh
when Malachai came out he wrecked people and everyone was so scared of fighting him in HC
kitava wasnt really meaningfully nerfed, people just learned his attacks
people would make public parties "Selling Malachai Cruel Kill service: 3c" and they'd have lots of buyers in league hardcore
lots of deaths to the nearly full arena fire before people realized there was a thin pizza slice of safe
New to harvest: Do i just toss my lower level t2 seeds out for the most part? Dont want to accidentally plant them.
i really wonder why ggg didnt want to let elder/shaper frag converting seedcraft work for uber frags as well 😦
hi, how does the seed level correlate to the item level i can craft on. i saw some posts saying you can craft on items higher than the seed level?
you can craft on items up to 10 levels higher than the seed
any item above ilvl 86 being considered 86 for that purpose making ilvl 76 seed the minimum level to craft on everything endgame
how do you buy the crafts? is is a trust trade? and can they be searched somewhere?
can you trade the horti stations? 🤔
No
hi, how do i store a harvest craft? i've just put a crafting bench down but can't see how i store something?
nm didn't realise i needed to pylon it up
What flowers or whatever are the best to have to get many rem/add of the seeds u plant?
To store a craft
You need a horticulture
It's 1800 life force you can craft it at any harvest thing
Is the auto disperse functionality still bugged? When I tried entering my garden from the map, I needed to disperse manually; all the plants were red for the lifeforce requirements. This went away after I clicked on the dispersion icons.
It wont disperse until you click yhethe cache in a map, so when you're in garden they'll always be red. Yes, they do work
I did click the cache in the map
That's how I entered my garden from the map, after opening the cache, there was a portal to take me to the garden
Ok, nv. Purely visual bug
Can someone explain me why I can't feed T2 seeds which need Vivid Lifeforce? I've Vivid Liferoce in Storage.
Is it all connected properly and do you have enough and is it in range if the disperser
You can stack buff from seeds enhancements? different buff stacks and same buffs don't?
guys i'm new and i can't harvest the yellow seeds
https://i.imgur.com/1TOgOm6.jpeg
you don't have a collector
Where can I find the most current optimized garden layout?
guys, does the seeds supposed to not grow if i switch a character to the one who haven't completed the story yet and enter the Sacred Grove through the seed (that spawns at every map) or is it a bug? (pls @ me, thanks)
seeds level are too high
@autumn snow im talking about t1 seeds though
what about it
t1 seeds stoped growing after i switched characters
t1 seeds dont even dispay their level when seeded
do seed caches spawn in low lv areas ?
define low lvl area
im lv 68, do lv 4 areas spawn them ?
no
why would you want to do that anyway
with lvl 4 seeds, you can only craft up to ilvl 14 items
to grow ma garden, i have 4 full fields, but they all take so long to grow xD
seeds also don't tick if the cache you open is too far away in level from the seeds' level
I still wonder what's the lvl range for that
damn
almost baited
I've heard it's 5 on maps I think
gj viper 
when is the best time to harvest? is it when map is in influence?
asap if you want the crafts, on juiced maps if you want the drops.
what lvl of seed do i need to craft an ilvl 86 item?
guys i have only 1 collector how do i go about creating a second one?
I can't seem to buy new pylons after the initial batch. It doesn't show up on any of the collectors. I've done Oshabi's quests.
i have only 1 storage building and is linked to blue
the collector by itself can hold some lifeforce
yea so either just condense it or buy pylons, its fine. and then stack some seeds and collect multiple at once when they are raedy
then you get more lifeforce per harvest and you will be able to craft more collectors
i have 5 pylons i dont know what to use them for
i need storage tank but like i have only 1
so whats the best right now since i need storage tank
well the best thing is to do harvest with 24 seeds
yes
ok thank you for taking the time to explain
i watch vidoes and stuff but usually they are past the very start

Reposting this since it got pushed back a bit: I can't seem to buy new pylons after the initial batch. It doesn't show up on any of the collectors. I've done Oshabi's quests.
as SSF player what's the most immportant goal with harvest for me
craft good gear? :d that is what harvest is for
also it helps a lot with leveling (i assume you are still leveling). the reforges/augments on low ilvl wands basically guarantee stuff like +lvls, added flat etc
yes level 44 but i haven't done much with harvest i was just using it on cd when ever plants where ready
i tought it auto levled and i just needed to kill as much astuff as possible similar to gem's
ye i made want with the + dmg i wanted actually
I've tried googling for the issue, but all the people who've had the same issue don't seem to get any solutions. Maybe I'm just blind or not searching the right keywords, but I'm not sure how to remedy this. I also can't craft the wild collector (at least on the wild collector, idk about vivid or primal yet), the option isn't there either along with the pylons.
so the idea is deathbeam is to link 2 fields wait for all plants to be ready and haverst them at once? then store the energy?
you dont have to link anything, just plant 24 seeds (what is max) around your collector
and yes, wait till all 24 are grown up
and then harvest
oke thanks
so e.g if you are short on seeds just keep planting them around that collector (or other types of collectors for different seeds) until its full and then when all grow harvest them
damn i have been wasting my plants then FeelsBadMan
Condense is to store, u can only buy stuff with lifeforce before condensing. If theres some red words saying discard near the button it means u dont have enough storage
how do i unlock or go about planting higher tier plants?
you get higher tier plants when harvesting lower tier plants
(e.g always +1 tier)
and for higher tier plants you need dispensers connected to lifeforce they require
where is the dispenser location best? between 2 purple fields or what
Deathbeam is this good https://i.imgur.com/KMgy8gV.jpeg
i have everything ready to harvest, on the right to store and dispenser on the left all conected
all good, thanks getting the hang of it
is the pinned farm layout the recommended up to date layout?
yea that one is decent
thanks!
i think H is horticrafting station
Hey guys, i just made the pinned harvest layout, connected everything up, am i supposed to put auto "ON" ALL the dispensers in the T4 seed Area right away?
And why aren't the collectors in T4 connected up to any pylons. new to the tier stuff
yes just make everything auto :d
Yo is 99.5% efficiency harvest layout any good if i remove 2 collectors for horti?
why would you want to do that
the one pinned is probably the best one
easy short access to t1 plot.... top left can have lots of hortistation or tanks depending on ur need
Max efficiency is a meme
why doesn't this work
the left side dispenser is both linked with the collector and storage tank?
this is pylon and not disperser
k thanks fixed it, i guess it has to be next to the flower my order was bad. thanks!
Any kind of crafting is only going to affect explicits on an item unless otherwise stated right?
Like reforging doesn't affect the the implicit or quality right
Correct unless otherwise stated
Can anyone confirm that Harvest crafts all respect 'prefixes cannot be changed' and 'suffixes cannot be changed' master-crafted mods?
you can report it in game or on the forums
👍 video format ok?
why is the wild tier 2 seed asking for more vivid lifeforce when i already connected it to a dispenser with 2000units ?
It's a sort of visual bug. As long as you have the lifeforce and autodisperse is active it will do it
can "remove non-X add X" remove a prefix and add a suffix? I am trying to make an assassins mark dex essence ring, and so have been doing (1) use essence (2) remove other suffixes, add three prefixes (3) craft crit chance (4) remove non-crit add crit, I think? the chance of removing a prefix should be 3/4 (and then 1/2 for hitting lvl 12 assassins mark), but I have removed the dex suffix 4 times in a row, so I am not sure if I'm doing something wrong
or if I just got unlucky
It can
can confirm it was just a fluke, fifth time worked fine
i wanna change my fire resist into cold resist on a helm but it says im too low level
or actually that the item level is too high
is there a way to change the resistances or is that only for lower level items
@pine pewter ilvl 76 seeds should work just fine even for ilvl 100 since its getting downscaled in harvest.
@grizzled blaze if your suffixes are full it wont remove a prefix because that would mean having 4 suffixes
So, it would seem I'm doing something terrible wrong if the replies from the "Harvest isn't going core" thread are correct. How in the hell does Harvest seem to make the maps+ content trivial?
I'm struggling just to survive a T5 map using Enki's. And I'm certainly not drowning in enough seeds to support more than 2 collectors each. One for T1s and another for T2+.
You're not necessarily doing anything wrong, if you're in T5 maps atm you're pretty early into your atlas progression. It takes time generate the very GG gear through harvest crafting but the gear you can achieve for a certain level of effort and/or currency is much better than the equivalent gear in previous leagues so it trivialises the gearing process and your characters get way stronger way faster than before. So the same content is nowhere near as challenging within the same time frame.
As for the seeds issue you mention, nobody finds enough T1 seeds while mapping to self sustain their garden, you either bulk buy them to maintain full fields or you waste growth cycles while getting more seeds and having empty plots.
@timber sundial u are probably new i guess?
Yes actually. This is the first season I've gone beyond Act 4
I just don't have the time to dedicate more often than not.
Then obviously u arent gonna have the knowhow to craft things, do maps
Also the thing with having more collectors is so that u dont have to enter the grove every map
So far I've found that progression is very RNG based. I got lucky enough early on to get a 4 link, then a 5link armor, so my Arc could basically nuke anything that wasn't a boss.
That's... annoying.
Once u enter maps go get the 4L recipe from delving
5L is quite common but not really needed for lower tier maps
Oh I have that. I'm doing maps now. I keep running into The Crusader in my T5s, and his mods are fucking me up.
Plus now I bought a nice 5L Shroud of the Lightless, though I need to recolour a single socket. So my offence is respectable. Most trash and blue mobs die in a single Arc doublecast
But my life is about 3.5k, and even with 50-75 in my elemental res I'm still made of glass.
Chaos is a painful -14
Harvest is the same as trading. The natural progression gets accelerated
I'm trying to farm unvields so I can get the 'trigger on skill cast' mod for my wand. That would automate my desecrate->bone offering combo to give me more survivability.
However given my squishiness the laboratory runs keep failing.
U wont get that in t5 maps
Thats an ilvl75 unveil which means u need minimum T6 maps
That is annoying.
I suppose I could be saving random caster gear to reroll via harvest.
The core 'crafting' system of 'throw alchemy/scouring at an item and pray' is... vexing to say the least.
Yet for some reason both the devs and the top players seem to feel that the harvest system is broken.
Ah well. The game is fun, mechanically solid for the most part. But I can honestly say I wont be giving it much time, let alone more money, when the league ends.
Well its not possible to cater the game to everyone
It's a business. You cater to those giving you money. I don't fault them for that.
I like harvest crafting but i can honestly do without it
So if it's gone for the sake of longevity of the game idm
I think that harvest crafting, for the little that I've used it, seems to be a vast improvement over 'throw currency at the wall and pray'
Yet the latter option does keep the game going longer as you need more and more playtime to reach the highest points.
Yep
Thus, more and more likely to spend money on shiny things.
Same reason no AH and they deliberately slow trade down
From a purely financial point of view, it's what I'd do.
But from a 'I only have time to play causally at best' view point, it's annoying.
I see arguments saying harvest will let them try more builds but theres only so much to try and if harvest is permanent these people will run out of new things to try faster than if it didnt go core
What's the best location to rapid farm t1 seeds of level 65-75?
Quarry
That a map?
Act
9?
Jus run around the entrance to the next zone and u can see all the possible cache spawns
How can we make the Harvest League to Core Game? Suggestions.
1- Set multiple seed caches to spawn on each map like Alva. For example 3 to 5 seed caches each map triggered with 10% chance.
2- Set the number of seed caches spawning according to tiers. For example 2 on campaign, 3 on white maps, 4 on yellow maps, 5 on red maps. But fix the total seed drop from one seed cache. For example 20 random seeds total.
3- Change the seed caches to open a portal only when they have collected them completely. Or when a seed cache is opened, close previous portals like Alva.
4- Each seed cache gives a growth cycle.
5- Limit Horticrafts. For example 100. But rework it to carry 5 craft.
6- In order not to slow down the speed, you can give a basic tier1 tier2 seed farming layout to players on start.
These are my suggestions. Any different suggest appreciated. Thank you.
garden is fine if it's pre-set like beastry mechanic
I didn't say merge lmao 🤷♂️
I feel there should be Strength/Dexterity/Inteligence seeds. It feels most Harvesr crafts don't work on accessories and being able to go for attribute requirements or new forms of attribute scailing in the late game would be convenient.
Uh no
Attribute scaling is the strongest form of scaling
So it should still be somewhat difficult to do
Does it matter where you do the heart of the grove encounter? like, map or not?
Nope
is there a harvest seed craft option to remove a influence mod from an item? not the influence.
is there a harvest seed craft option to remove a influence mod from an item? not the influence.
@worthy turtle yes Primal Blisterfruit (Tier 4) can grant Remove Influence Modifier.
I think they should do something like, remove the grove, and instead of clicking on seed caches in maps, we just click on a harvester effectively (change the name or function however you like). Basically you click a thing and instead of getting seeds that have to build up beyond measure, it just straight up spawns a pack of enemies. Killing them either drops an item that lets us apply a craft to our bench (like infused zana mods work, but adds to bench), or maybe it gives us a crafting interface and we can save up to 3 of the crafts each time. And then just give us a new bench in hideout that stores harvest crafts or something (since we can't use the current form of horti benches)
If you did it this way and treated it like other league mechanics, we would see one every 10 maps or so, and we wouldnt have control over what the mods are, and you probably put remove adds and influence and all those good ones in red maps or something (sort the drops by tiers). Getting one cache every 10 maps would be relatively slow for banking crafts (and again, we wouldnt have control over what we see so it could take 100 t16s to see an influence craft for example).
Bottom line is it would take quite awhile to acquire these powerful crafts, but they would at least still be available. And transitioning away from the garden and just making it spawn the enemies right away would solve the issue of how slow progression of the mechanic would be.
ive been playing for almost 4 years now, ill most likely quit playing as the deterministic crafting was the best thing to happen to the game since the atlas
ruining the economy is such a B.S excuse to not go core. The drop off this league was due to the mechanic and not the crafting system
Mix it with a betrayal like mechanic where you unlock some uses of each craft every time you open a cache.. dont even have to retain the other things
Do you guys do your harvests on high tier and high quantity maps?
Im sorry what? When did they state that the reason of it not going core is a ruined economy?
I mean I get their point, its not fun to get a double mult/life jewel anymore, because its worth maybe 20c. I love the mechanic, but they should tune it down
However, at the top end of gameplay, Harvest has made it too easy to gain very powerful items that previously required a lot more work and investment to acquire. This was acceptable for a temporary challenge league but poses problems for the long-term health of Path of Exile's item economy if allowed to remain in its current state.@wanton flicker
Item economy not the economy
Item economy controls overall economy
Item economy is the economy more or less
https://i.imgur.com/cChKFb6.png does this cost only 1 bubble?
it costs lifeforce, its a bauble there to quickly show what it does
instead of reading the text
ohhhhhhhh neat
It is related but very different. Why tf would ggg care if chaos is 200 or 500 to an ex?
https://iw.gy/rnbdEq i dont get this setup, dont T3 Seed need T2 around them ?
T2+
oh
is it possible to create 5link ( i know 4link is possible) via harvest?
for example 5 link chest or something
5 sockets * excuse me
5 socket/links aren't rare, for the record
I have exactly build my harvest like this and the disperser are still never working 😦
I dont get it, I am stuck with T1 seeds all the time T_T
Does it matter in what map to activate grown up t3-4 seeds?
Which is better if is?
Is it just me or the T2+ seeds drop rate is very bad right now?
has anyone one fractured port map that i can mirror it and run it infinite for myself?
You need an original non mirrored map to run infinite. Can't use a fractured fossil on a mirrored copy
https://iw.gy/rnbdEq how do i grow Tier 2 Seeds in this setup ? Oo
oh got it
btw...what do the 3 mean in the top right corner ? the collector doesnt allow them to be placed there
What will happen to the saved horticraft stations when league ends ? Is there an official answer ?
probably unusable
no info yet
probably will come with the manifesto when were closer to launch
what impact is the seed level having on the exchange a beast/unique/harbringer item for a related item ?
i have a question about the tier 1 wild hatchling seed
"Reforge the colours of sockets on an item 10 times, using the outcome with the greatest number of less-common socket colours"
what does this so?
If you had a dex/int base then red sockets would be the least likely. It uses 10 chromatic orbs on your item then gives you the outcome that had the most red sockets from the 10 tries. If your base was strength only then it would give you the outcome with the most green and blue sockets as they're the least likely to roll
How do we remove int from an item using harvest crafts
No specif guarantee to remove it, it depends on the item You have @pliant relic
how much can a ilvl65 seed can sell? for 1k its 1 ex is it?
Quitting league, what is the best base item to synthesise? Like, a white base that can sell for 100+ ex with gg implicits
yeah do thicket bow
loooots of implicits are GG for it
from +1 gems to physical damage
rings are also good
if you get onslaught/intimidate/arcane surge/power charge, gg
i think, i forget what things apply to what
the harbinger conversion does it make any different whether i just a piece or full unique?
is the amount of seeds i get from a cache random ?
is it good shiet ?
yes
Cool
Is there any way to use ilvl 72 harvest modifiers on a ilvl 80?
I keep getting the message item level is too high
Does the horti crafting station change that?
Is it possible to save crafts and sell them?
I'm trying to roll res gear atm so i ignore the attack ones
monster level limits what ilvl you can craft on. it's monster lvl +10.
horti lets you store crafts. it doesn't interfere with the ilvl limitation.
sure, you can sell crafts. check #trading
hey so horicraft benches are gonna be deleted after the league i take it since its not going core?
Likely not
probably not
u will just have a bunch of benches in ur stash that dont do anything
same as ppl have leaguestones and beastcrafting nets that dont do anything
Pepehands
You get T2 seeds by planting T1 with a dispencer right?
can you make a hexa influence item for the memes
okay i've basically gotten to 2k condenses of each seed... apparently thats not how i can get 1800 lifeforce for horticrafting station
There are two slots for influence symbols. One to the left of the name and one to the right. So an item could not have more than two influence types.
yes, you can use the special orbs to add a second influence
I think only the Awakener's Orb can add a 2nd influence.
@sullen scroll u can only buy stuff with the lifeforce before u click condense once u click that its straight to the storage
So its easier to get horti stations with T2/3/4
T1 seeds can net u 1 station if u add the red flower but thats horribly inefficient
Condensed life-force is for dispensers only
I've just used 'add influence to an item' and didn't get a challenge for it. Is there a point of writing to support? Or will they tell me "thanks for report, better luck next time"
"add influence" and "add influence MOD" are 2 different craft
Oh, I thought it's the same
what do I need to get it then?
according to this there is only adding influence to not-influenced item
can someone give me a good garden layout using buds and flowers
guys what jeweler to influence worth a lot to do?
i mean which is the good base jewelry to craft influnece on now?
do people sell the synthesise harvest craft?
Are they ever going to add QOL stuff to harvest I thoroughly hate parts of it
Like is it something being talked about
league isnt going core in its current state anyway
😂 oh great
Sell them
I'll try
cant go wrong on all spell wands
!leagues
Temporary leagues last 3 months, contain a unique new mechanic and do not allow players access to their existing characters and items. Most players play the temporary leagues.
Standard is the permanent league and has been running since Path of Exile's launch. There are many more items in the economy, deflating their value. The population is lower than the temporary leagues. If you can only play a small amount of time per week and want to go very far in the game, this can be a good game mode.
If you are a new player, it is strongly recommended to play in the current temporary league.
The Harvest league began on Friday June 19 at 1pm PDT.
The Harvest league will end on Monday September 14 at 3pm PDT.
The [unknown] league will tentatively start Friday September 18.
This information was last updated on August 3rd.
For details on what happens when a league ends, see https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2091028
does map quality and rarity affects the amount of seeds i get?
No one knows, just harvest important plots in decent maps to be safe
has there been any info from GGG if horticrafting stations will be usable or useless in standard once this league ends? I know harvest is not going core. but wondering what happens to existing seeds/crafting stations at the end
Probably will be unusable
Im using all my vuluable crafts before league endd I guess
hi, does level monsters affect the seeds somehow?
which monsters are you talking about?
the monster is locked at the level of the seed
are my tanks supposed to be full?
some plants says its required x amounts of vivid thing
or wild, and they should come from my dispenser right?
Yeah that's right you need disperses in range of these seeds and the disperses need to be connected to the correct colour storage tanks to disperse it
which buds/flowers e.t.c is the best to get aug, remove/add and remove? is it fortune flower or horti flower? (I dont want blossoms)
Both together
with the remove/add craft if you don't have the modifier on an item it just acts as an augment?
No it just wouldn't work, you can bench craft on a mod with that tag if there's one available for your items open prefix or suffix and then the remove/add will work
ok thanks
Anyone else have terrible luck with lightning seeds?
why can i not sustain seeds
Is it possible for me to get a 6 socket/6 link craft from tier 1 vivid leech seeds/ tier 1 primal feasting horror? I almost never get them.
yes
do ilvl of seeds affect life force gain?
You mean level? Yes
are there bugged T4 harvest seeds?
i finally got one to the point i could harvest it and i've bene sitting in the fight for 10 minutes
keeps spawning adds but i haven't really taken damage from anything and there's no like big scary monster
am i just out a T4 seed?
i do remember one of the T4s just spawning ads endlessly
but it did eventually stop
i don't know if there was a trigger to stop it or what
but it took at least a minute or two
maybe longer
You need to keep damaging the boss while clearing the adds to get through the add phases
i'm going on minute 20
i don't see a boss
just adds
and a ring of glowing roots
does it tunnel or fly? like might it have gotten stuck in an invulnerable state?
sigh. oh well. just about done with this league anyway. just kinda wanted to try that part since i hadn't gotten to experience it yet
interesting. i think the adds are now spawning as level 1 monsters
there's a ton of ilvl 1 items
mixed in with some ilvl 84 items
Sounds like you could be experiencing a bugged fight at this point then sadly
The yellow boss does have a couple of attacks where he goes into stealth but if you've been trying to fight it for 20 mins I would assume you've been all over the grove and can't get him back out
accurate
does harvesting more seeds at once make a difference ? Like i have some seeds in a plot that are 7 and 9 cycles should i wait 2 additional cycles on the 7 cycle to harvest them all at once?
@thorny edge more life force and more crafts
@thorny edge more life force and more crafts
@slender temple So i should try and harvest an entire plot in one go and also do multiple plots if possible, right?
Doing it in map is better
@slender temple oh yeah for sure always do it in map sorry forgot to say that
Just to make sure my math is right and I know how the mechanics work,
Tier 3 seeds that produces 400 life force, with the "produces 150% more lifeforce" effect from a fortune bulb = 100 lifeforce, so 2 successfully grown tier 3 seeds will give me enough life force for a Horicrafting station, right?
1800 lifeforce is what I need for a station, right?
Okay, I should have just barely enough lifeforce even without the fortune bulb, so I'll definitely have enough with a Fortune bulb slapped down. I'm good.
@sharp iron u didnt account for the other bonuses
mouse over your collector
why do my dispensers keep coming off?
i have the life force needed
like 50 storages full yet it keeps going off
is there a way you can upgrade a seeds tier
trade with other players; or plant them and harvest
appreciate it
does the level of homunculus seed matter for essence change?
so how exactly do i read this
if i want to set it up
or rather where do i even start
C collecotr, P pylon, D dispenser
if im only planting t1 seeds for now then where should i start?
then you can honestly place them where you want
well id like to follow this and not take everything down later
when i expand
is there a particular portion here that is dedicated to t1 and 2
by that you mean the cluster of 3 C in the bottom left?
and purple and yellow next to that
@sharp iron Map IIQ has some effect on Lifeforce (although it's not as much as the displayed IIQ.)
Huh. Didn't know that.
All the bonuses are on your collector
So going to a map and entering the grove in that is always better than going to the grove from the waypoint directly?
if u can handle the content with the mapmods /sure u wont burn all portals, yes
Do people really only use 3 hortis for each color? I
people store them in stash tabs
no idea why would you sort them for colour
if you want to have some kind of order then separate augs/annuls from the rest
Its easier to just set em and forget em Imo so you don't have to putz around with em while you're mapping
yeah I cant be asked to think "is this a purple seed craft this guy wants?" when I'm using the benches. I take it out, throw it on the ground, craft, rinse repeat the next 7 benches he wants, and then just link them up to whatever
in the end it makes 0 difference if your colors are mixed up in your tabs
If u set and forget u are wasting space
I still have room for 9 t1 plots and 3 t4 plots.
I left 4 empty spots just to randomly plonk down stations for crafts
so with that stickied layout the T2's go in the plots top right marked with all the 4's?
@lean ridge yes
Gm everyone does anyone care of I post a pic I had a very successful night with harvest last night
I kinda wanted to show it off a little
@tame fiber there is #in-game-showcase
Do you have to put done a Lifeforce Flower immediately before selecting Harvest?
Any buds, flowers or blossoms need to be down before you activate the collector to spawn the mobs to apply to that field
Okay. So wait for my stuff to grow 100%, place down the Lifeforce flowers, then harvest right after I placed them?
Yep
From t2 seeds?
If u just started getting stations i suggest skipping most crafts alot of them arent as valuable as storing 3 crafts
No, I have 2 tier 3 seeds in there
For e.g exchange 3 alt for 3c u spend like 500 lifeforce
I actually think I did the math and found that I can get the station without the fortune flower effects, but I'm not taking any risks.
U really dont wanna spend lifeforce on easy to get stuff
U want alot of stations
Basically all t2+ plots should be done with the red flower
Are the flowers not one-use?
Ah
U will get alot of those flowers as u do t2+ seeds and oshabi
I've been using t2 seeds for awhile
Huh, I grew a influence seed before i realized how valuable it was. If i use it on a item will it replace the mods already there?
it wont
fortune or horti buds for spamming t1 seeds?
which seed gave these, couldnt seem to find one. or im misunderstanding the modifiers descriptions
wild chieftain grain
tyty
t2
ty
anyone have the layout with the best way to do stuff? I still haven't set up my seed farm
and i remember exactly why I gave up on it entirely as a mechnic. time to see if my dumbass can set it up properly..
i figured it out without too much trouble and i wasnt exactly an expert
youll probs do ok
so disperser between every two pylons on the outside ring of the collector, right?
i cant say i remember exactly 😛 but the layout is there
D for disperser
and P for pylon
nah fuck this, too much info. I'll just stay at 8 challenges. this is not my strong suit.
I can't seem to connect my pylon to my dispersers?? only the main planter?
is it in range
yeah, it's right next to it
yo i just added an influence modifier to my item via harvest but didnt get the challenge progress
any idea what the problem is
did u add influence "MOD" or did u added "influence" to the item
u werent the first to mistaken those 2 , haha
what is the benefit of adding influence to a weapon or armor if you already like the current mods on it?
Besides a few unique items that scale based off influence gear. Nothing but a cool background
if i have an item full of attack mods (open prefix) with cannot roll attack mods on it, and craft "non-attack add attack" could the new prefix be an attack mod? or will it respect the 'non-attack'?
well, the remove nonattack will first remove the "cannot roll att" mod itself, then add attack mod
so you think it will be able to slam a normal attakc mod?
the reason i ask is because i know previously you could suffix-> prefix with "cannot roll attack mods" on bows to force +gem
tested, doesnt work
Hope 3.12 is more balanced when it comes to reward
This channel will get renamed in three days?
I look forward to the teasers. Hopefully can start thinking of (a) build archetype(s) when we see what the new league content is like
Why is harvest so confusing
Wait new league start in 3 days??? I just started this league yesterday
Support me on Patreon:
https://www.patreon.com/user?u=31161838
Come join me on TWITCH!
https://twitch.tv/thisisbadgergaming
~ Welcome! It's your friendly neighbourhood Badger here, and I'm back with a perfect, 100% prediction of the new league, 3.12.
Badger P.I. solves th...
i think this is the winner tbh
alice in wonderland, fairy-tale style league
uhhhhhh
ehhhh
toozday is coming
also
is that countdown correct?
oh i see
it is sept 1 pdt . weird they doing it in not-their-timezone
@slender temple they normally do it on wednesdays for them i think; sep 1 is just a coincidence
cool
How do we know if harvest will be included in standard league or just throw out?
we already know it wont be
At least not right away
In the same form
Is there a channel we can discuss the spoilers in?
no
Damn guess I'll have to wait for tomorrow then
or use the reddit thread
oh so the new league is called Uknown 
I'm hyped for it
i see a cat w a bowtie and a monocle i am pleased
nice chair
someone on reddit brightened that image
there are some neat things in the back
the spoilers have been flowing, i hear people are randomly posting them in twitch channels too
so maybe just avoid all poe related places for now
youd think popular youtubers woudl show some decorum
but no they have spoiled it too
i wont say who
anything to get likes i guess
mathil is policing his chat at least
leisure suit larry did a 20 minute reveal video
Without having to spoil since I intentionally spoiled myself, I'd say that pretty much all of the things Bex said is completely true
including the laser part
we'll see tommorrow
Hmm looks like pirate cat
someone just showed me a bunch of spoilers for the new league
i will admit i'm a bit confused how people can cling to bex for spoilers but then get upset when they see other spoilers. Same is same yeah?
well the approved ones are 1) legit 2) just enough to get excited over without spoiling the whole thing
also last league the "spoilers" were mostly fakes if you go back and check
im just gonna wait 17 more hours
one sleep some housework and work work
then the reveal
there's a difference between actual leaks and bex teasers
i was spoiled by leaks and am slightly disappointed that i let it happen
that being said i am quite excited for the trailer and ziggy video tomorrow
its today 
i will have slept between now and the trailer lol
I see some weird symbols on this book
(Blured on version of pic with "tomorrow")
Still lots we don't understand even with the spoiler stuff though so I'm excited to find out more and what's really going on.
we cant discuss it here? the leaks?
🙉🙈🙊

I checked leaks (imgur album) and GOD i hope its fake
in a good or bad way?
they're bad
i mean, not "skip, bad" but... bad
can we say spoiler shit in here
no
I mean, its only place in discord we can talk about it, but i gess all poe is in "no-spoiler" zone except spoiler tread
So, its place opinion about spoilers, not spoilers
seems too well put together to be a fake
feels off for a real one tho
they're way more convincing than the synthesis ones, and people said the same about those feeling off
I think that's just the image quality
we pretty much know nothing about the league
and it's poe, all UI looks unpolished in a vacuum
not really
moreso at leaguestart
its 100% truers
POE leagues are not something i'm afraid to get spoiled about, knowing the plot beforehand does spoil my league experience
but i guess there's others who think differently
some were angry that the harvest league bosses was accidentally revealed by the first server kill message
ngl that did strike me as odd
they went through all the effort to have it labeled as "heart of the grove" everywhere else
and then the server message just ruins it
isn't there a way to turn off that spam? if not there should be lol
will this be a farming league? a bossing league? any speculation?
yes
I just want to hold RMB and see loot explosions
loot explosion on crit support, ez
well, that's the same as item quality support innit