1┃mirage-league

[sacred wyvern]

But because it has a duration of 8 seconds and you can only use the keystones effect every 4 seconds, 10 stacks

I'm guessing this is why they added the new impale duration nodes

[tiny flint]

Would firestorm brands be good in ssf

Im trying to figure out how to build it but these new brand changes are confusing

[sacred wyvern]

My guess is arcanist brand is good with a lot of skills simply because it's good single target

Dealing more damage to branded enemies and having 2 brands on them

[rocky nebula]

BV brands hmmmmmmmm

[sacred wyvern]

Still don't know if it works with BV

[rocky nebula]

Totems work with bv

I think?

[sacred wyvern]

We will see, would be nice to see balls of blades fly about

Don't totems cast BV on your location

[rocky nebula]

I might just back to playing bv

[tiny flint]

Same lol

[rocky nebula]

I really wanted to try poison bv assassin with cold iron points but never got to it

[sacred wyvern]

It's pretty nice

Obliterations for clear

Cold iron point for single target

[tiny flint]

Im trying to make sure my build is good in garden

And not purely clear

[sacred wyvern]

Brands doing the work means you have time to dodge

[tiny flint]

My other safw choice is a smite zerker

Ancestral call is crazy

*cry

[tender tusk]

it's 4 exerts right?

on a low ish cd

[lucid stone]

BV casts on you

[tiny flint]

Yeah 4 exerts

[tender tusk]

anc cry is actually 8

wtf

[tiny flint]

O
O

Thats crazy

[dusty umbra]

@rocky nebula cant

[tender tusk]

8 exerts, 8s cd

[tiny flint]

Its also max of +6 target

[tender tusk]

would be ideal for zerker

50% more damage for 8 attacks

[tiny flint]

Wouldn't worm molten strike be insane single target

[dusty umbra]

@rocky nebula eshroud phys brands look the best so far

[lean lark]

If you exert bladestorm do the storms retain said exertion?

[tender tusk]

they should

[tiny flint]

They should

[rocky nebula]

Don't exerted attacks only work with slams?

[tiny flint]

No

[rocky nebula]

Or is it any melee skill?

[tender tusk]

Fist of war is slams only

[tiny flint]

All melee unless specifically said

[tender tusk]

exert is any melee afaik

[lean lark]

It says on the gems. Some are strikes only, some slams only, some all attacks

[tiny flint]

Which is slam only

[lean lark]

Seismic

[sacred wyvern]

All the exerts specify the application and effect

One is for attacks the other strike skills and the other is for slams

[jolly light]

is it just me or does penance brand seem insanely strong? 150% more dmg per energy times 20 energy seems bonkers

or am i misreading something

[tiny flint]

It lasts for 2.5s on attachment

Need lots of cast speed to hit 20 energy

[jolly light]

im guessing the energy count is seperate per brand which would limit the amount of stacks you could get. other wise its completely broken

[tiny flint]

Yea

Each brands energy is separate

BUT

If you recall or 1 expires

They use the combined energy

They don't stack to pulse out tho

[jolly light]

yea the pulse is weak compared to the expiry explosion, which is huge

[tiny flint]

Basically the stacking is only good on bosses

To.clear with 1 brand

You need cast speed

And low recall duration

Cd

[jolly light]

does skill effect duration increase brand duration?

attached brand duration

[tiny flint]

Not sure

[lean lark]

Warcry buff effect nodes should increase the damage provided to minions by rallying cry, correct?

[crystal apex]

yes

[jolly light]

skill effect duration does increase brand duration in case anyone was wondering

[dusty umbra]

How does Disintegrator treat dual influ items?

+1 charge or +2?

wrong chat sorry

[ebon kiln]

For penance brand you shoudnt forget that every energy is 1 spread further. So u want as at least some energy ticks to get enough spread

[vast berry]

how did saviour function with endurance charge on stun support? or charges in general

Do they generate their own charges after being summoned, do they inherit your charges on being summoned?

I am asking for the purpose of using tidebreaker with general's cry

[trim agate]

not sure why endurance charge on stun would make any sense for generals cry

they disappear after their first attack.

not sure if they inherit your endurance charges to take advantage of the 10% dmg per though.

probably just better off with Marohi unless you're trying to stun.

[steel folio]

is there a link to the compiled crafting options for harvest?

[lean lark]

Second wind still going to work with warcries?

[bronze cave]

no reason to believe otherwise

[wild arch]

Is seismic cry's exert gonna boost ailment damage?

[bronze cave]

yes @wild arch

[wild arch]

Sweet

Ice crash ignite it is then

[bronze cave]

i'm impale warcry groundslam, and deciding how to level is really hard

[rocky nebula]

That somehow makes more sense than lightning earthquake

[wild arch]

Ikr

The difference is 20% damage effectiveness

But 100% Phys to cold is huge

[violet nymph]

anyone solved the garden game already?

[rocky nebula]

Are you gonna do cold to fire then?

[wild arch]

Don't need to waste slots on uniques

Nah

Equilibrium

[rocky nebula]

Ignite?

[wild arch]

Forgot about hrimburn

[rocky nebula]

Ehhhhhh

I guess

[wild arch]

Compared to lighting EQ, this uses up just gloves, while the other needs a weapon, skill gem and ring which is usually expensive early

[unique dust]

would it be better later on to replace hrimburn with something else and go for cold to fire?

[wild arch]

No you can't beat equilibrium

Woah

Debeon's dirge

[rocky nebula]

I wonder if it's getting any changes though

Didn't see it in patch notes at least

I think?

[wild arch]

Base damage buff

They said it's roughly 15% more for all two handers, and even more for axes

[rocky nebula]

Yeah but doesn't it only have cold damage?

[wild arch]

Not only

More like 4/5

[unique dust]

eager to see what you come up with, I'm not too sold on equilibrium though...

[rocky nebula]

They really need to change this whole 'more, increased, less, reduced' thing

[wild arch]

It'll have a bit over 500 average base damage and 150% inc ele damage on top

Not sure if many weapons can beat that

Too tired to work it out right now but I think this set-up is already stronger than fireball ignite

[rocky nebula]

How do you even make fireball feel smooth to play?

Cast speed?

[wild arch]

Pretty much

[hasty perch]

axes look juicy tbh

[wild arch]

Now the problem is, do I go trickster as usual or something else

[hasty perch]

their nodes seems better too

the node changes really feel like it's axe=moar damage maces = moar aoe swords= pick something else plz

the nerfs on crit are kinda eh

on swords

[wild arch]

I like the sound of the new elemental damage implicit

[hasty perch]

i'm not a big fan that swords got only nerfed tho

on the tree

even 2H

swords

[icy shore]

How does "The Impaler" keystone work. I don't see the negative to it unless you are fighting a boss

[hasty perch]

that's the negative

you're getting better damage for clearing packs you'd clear just fine without impaler

and a huge nerf on bosses

[wild arch]

Well

[hasty perch]

which you actually need damage for

[wild arch]

There's a fun interaction some people figured out earlier

[hasty perch]

looks fun with the gloves

[wild arch]

Impale doesn't have a stack limit

[hasty perch]

right but you'd need to wait 4 sec to add a new +5

[wild arch]

Yeah

[hasty perch]

so impale duration stacking and running in circles around the boss

[wild arch]

But if you're willing to do that you can get like 40 stacks

[icy shore]

would be +11 right with +4 and plus 2 from tree right

[hasty perch]

I guess with master of metal it could be funny

[wild arch]

Not practical in most cases

[hasty perch]

to get like hundreds of flat phys

[wild arch]

Caged god master of metal

You'll oneshot anything in existence after a couple smacks

[sacred wyvern]

Yea I also found a massive downside to the impaler keystone

Apparently impale has a duration

Of 8 seconds

[hasty perch]

4 seconds between hits is kinda huge tho you better not get invulnerability phase pranked

[sacred wyvern]

Our idea is out the window

[wild arch]

Wut

[sacred wyvern]

Yea my reaction exactly

The max stacks is now down to 10

From 37

[hasty perch]

there's 50% duration

on tree

[wild arch]

Well that's boring

[sacred wyvern]

Ok 15

[hasty perch]

but it would suck

because you wouldn't get to hit it

to proc the 15

[sacred wyvern]

And you would need perfect timing

Because it's exactly 12 seconds

[hasty perch]

yes but the 11th to 15th stack you wouldn't get to land a hit on the target

since they would instantly disapear

so it's 10 stacks

kinda bad

[wild arch]

Gimmicks aside, caged god impale EQ champion sounds pretty damn solid

The initial slam applies 5 stacks and aftershock benefits from all of them

[sacred wyvern]

10 stacks is still more than the max before

True

[wild arch]

Wait a minute

Fast champ could go nuts with this

Tap once, wait 4 seconds, then go wild with ramping down damage

[sacred wyvern]

Yea it's pretty nice burst

[wild arch]

Or even better

Earthshatter

[sacred wyvern]

I also thought of that

[wild arch]

Hit twice and shout

[sacred wyvern]

Earthshatter could also be really nice without the keystone

Because a single attack gets you to max impale stacks

[wild arch]

Probably even better tbh

3 slams and shout for 15 pops

[sacred wyvern]

Even without stacking I think you still get 5 stacks

If positioned correctly

Looks like a great burst skill

And it looks like it would synergize really well with impale and crimson dance

[wild arch]

Poison

[sacred wyvern]

Oh damn

Hell yes

PRAISE SLAM LEAGUE

Damn I though the idea of facebreaker was cool, spinning and punching shit to death

But this slam shit

EXERT MORE LIKE ERECT

[wild arch]

Fuck ignite ice crash I'm going poison earthshatter

[sacred wyvern]

Does impale increase poison damage?

[wild arch]

Not by default

[sacred wyvern]

Since it increase physical damage of attacks and poison scales off the physical damage from a hit

[wild arch]

Champ adds flat phys per impale stack which boosts poison damage

[native sonnet]

dont think so, since its considered reflected dmg, dk if that even inherits ur chance to poison too begin with

[sacred wyvern]

Aha yes

Makes sense

[wild arch]

And I think there was a cluster node that increased ailment damage against impaled enemies

[native sonnet]

im guessing no, cuz once the impale is on them, any hits from anyone/anything trigger the impale dmg (so it could be from a spell or anything) so dont think it can poison

[wild arch]

Nvm it's the opposite

The node was increased impale effect with bleed causing attacks

Hmm

There are no poison/ailment/chaos related unique axes or maces

Disintegrator is the only viable unique for this

So crafts are the way to go

[sour mountain]

wings of entropy has chaos

checkmate frankenapple

you dont even know facts

[wild arch]

Every second attack isn't good enough

[dusty dove]

have the devs confirmed whether exert works (or doesn't work) with totems?

oh, seems like it doesn't

found the confirmation on ggg tracker but reddit seems to be having troubles. anyway, here it is: https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/h0hcs1/-/ftna42f/?context=3

[white mural]

totems/traps/mines dont work with "you/your"

[icy shore]

so if I have 600 strength caged god has a peak of 4147.2 damage?

[white mural]

more like 414,7

[icy shore]

ah yea mb got to divide str by 10

[white mural]

exactly

so you need like 1200 str to get pillar to be juicy endgame weapon to compete with crafted stuff

well before harvest uber crafting

[violet nymph]

1200 strength isn't horrifyingly difficult to get

[vast gazelle]

exert is specifically you so totems, mines, mirages, minions, etc. dont get the effect

generals cry attacks count as exerted so they benefit from global exert effects (ex. warbringer)

just not the actual warcries’ exerts

[violet nymph]

hmm

this slayer version of the ground slam build does way more damage

but it will take way longer to get up to RT

so i'm not sure if it's a better idea

they're upgrading graphics in this update right?

[gentle kayak]

Do we know yet what a top tier build will be for Harvest?

based on patch notes and changes to tree etc? i havent really played a lot in the past couple years to be able to track/retain what's good

[native sonnet]

conversion trap, turn ur harvest mobs into ur minions

[violet nymph]

will dual wield still be viable? since the 20% more dmg is removed?

[native sonnet]

yes

[violet nymph]

alright thanks

damage nerfs mean nothing for builds that can get 20m dps lol

i wish pob added shockwave dps to your skill dps

[torpid sonnet]

pob currently doesnt calculate DPS for cooldown-limited skills

[violet nymph]

i'm guessing shockwave is considered an additional hit?

if so i don't really have much reason to use it in this build

[wild arch]

Shockwave is a separate attack

[violet nymph]

???

i didn't know shockwave could be linked to support gems properly

i thought it just linked to the main skill

[wild arch]

Think of it as spellslinger that uses a melee aoe attack

(Even tho it came out before spellslinger lol)

[gentle kayak]

wtf is new top tier build gonna be

[violet nymph]

who knows

[gentle kayak]

someone knows

soemoen smart

[violet nymph]

no, literally nobody knows lol

there are multiple good builds

[gentle kayak]

WRONG

[violet nymph]

that could become top tier

the 2h buffs and support gem stuff combined with new crafting could easily create extremely powerful builds

[gentle kayak]

true

[violet nymph]

that being said, spellslinger ed/contagion/soulrend will dominate in the first few days

same with spellslinger vd

[ocean narwhal]

ha ha staff go bonk

[violet nymph]

mace also go bonk

i have a feeling marohi erqi is gonna end up being very expensive

standard price lol

[gentle kayak]

When u say "2h buffs", waht exactly was buffed? just skill reworks?

[violet nymph]

base types got biggg buffs

[gentle kayak]

oh flat dmg + on base

[violet nymph]

that and new implicits

some of which are crazy lol

[gentle kayak]

like dbl dmg

[violet nymph]

there's a mace with strength%

[gentle kayak]

has anyone put together a "before and after" skill tree?

[violet nymph]

there's a sword with +50 strength/dexterity

there's a staff with 20 spell block

[gentle kayak]

that sounds dope

[violet nymph]

oh yeah, it's terminus est's base that gets +50 strength/dexterity lol

which by the way is going to be an actual endgame weapon for a lot of builds now

[gentle kayak]

i DL'd this but there's no exe? https://github.com/PathOfBuildingCommunity/PathOfBuilding

[onyx verge]

https://github.com/PathOfBuildingCommunity/PathOfBuilding/releases

[gentle kayak]

ah thx

[violet nymph]

CI Chieftain strength stacking geofri's sanctuary 🤔

with some massive phys imperial maul

[native sonnet]

any1 else ran the math comparison between penance and storm brand?

penance seems to be strictly less dps than storm

[violet nymph]

what does this radius mean with double rapid expansion ground slam

[vast gazelle]

@native sonnet with the stormbrand nerfs its hard to believe that - comparable base damage, better added effectiveness, faster activation, comparable crit chance

[violet nymph]

infernal cry will be op now

[native sonnet]

sb activation got buff so they are equal

[ocean narwhal]

Infernal cry infernal blow chieftain

[vast gazelle]

its 0.5 now?

[native sonnet]

crit as well

yea

sure there's 10% DE difference but that's not much

[vast gazelle]

ok

so

keep in mind

[native sonnet]

i did the calc under the 150% cast speed + swiftbrand support scenario and here's what i got

[vast gazelle]

thats 33% more damage effectiveness

thats pretty big

im not sure how you get those numbers, huh

seems off

gotta get lunch sec

[native sonnet]

even after factoring the DE with a woke added lightning

[vast gazelle]

so

keep in mind damage effectiveness applies to its own base damage

[native sonnet]

what? no

[normal kraken]

I'm also getting significantly lower number on penance compared to storm brand

dmg effectiveness doesn't apply to the skill base dmg

[sudden laurel]

does skill effect duration apply to warcry duration?

[normal kraken]

on top of the lower damage, penance brand requires micromanaging the brands to maximize the damage

[vast gazelle]

ah

thats melee

not that

[native sonnet]

so im not crazy?

[vast gazelle]

this seems X to doubt

but i cant put my finger on whats missing

[normal kraken]

I'm getting on penance a base 625.4 phys/s and 1.18 added effectiveness/s

and on storm brand 848.7 light/s and 1.38 added effec/s

[native sonnet]

first 2 are base scenario default duration, second 2 are assuming optimal duration for max 20 energy, then sb dmg is extrapolated based on the same durations

[vast gazelle]

ok so

[native sonnet]

the dmg multiplier for sb is simply 130%more on attached, and the 1 on penance is 150%* (stacks * 2 -1) + 1

[vast gazelle]

lemme work through the math

i dont think that math is right

[normal kraken]

you should factor out cast speed increases and swiftbrand

[native sonnet]

which part?

[normal kraken]

those are just multipliers

[vast gazelle]

total boom is base * (100%+150%*energy-1)

[normal kraken]

just to simplify

[vast gazelle]

when a brand explodes it eats all the energy to do the explosion

[native sonnet]

yeah the stacks above is per brand hence x2

arrive at the same result

[vast gazelle]

ah

is that for 2 brands for storm brand too

[native sonnet]

dani, i had to include them to figure out the duration for the stacks and optimal duration for 20 stacks

yep

[vast gazelle]

there you go

so

212 base average * 150%*13 stacks for 2 braands

hm

ok

that math adds up

[normal kraken]

when you cast a new brand, the previous one is replaced at the end of the casting time, right?

[native sonnet]

if u hit ur brand limit yes

[vast gazelle]

now stormbrand is average 184.5 72.3, right

[native sonnet]

184.5 yes

[vast gazelle]

er

184.5 times 7 times 2.3

[normal kraken]

is that a weird character, or is it a local problem with my pc?

[vast gazelle]

it read my *s as markdown

[royal gale]

72

[vast gazelle]

xd

[normal kraken]

ah aight

[vast gazelle]

if thats the case, im getting 2970 damage for 2 storm brands

over that duration

not 8703

herr

is it

thats one brand

i get your 5940

ok

[native sonnet]

ye, 8703 was with DE and woke addedlightning

yep 5940

[vast gazelle]

so base damage storm brand is better

the 33% more damage effectiveness is big though

[native sonnet]

its really not

[vast gazelle]

and how penance brand will easily outscale, well, that and conversion

[native sonnet]

see the 1 with woke added lightnign example

[normal kraken]

are you guys getting better dmg effectiveness per second on penance or storm brand?

[vast gazelle]

base damage is 73% as effective, with woke added lightning its 76%

as i expected

so we need....

to wolfram alpha!

[native sonnet]

gtg for grocery, will be checking on phone in abit, or ping me if u guys figure out if i had some bad math in there

[normal kraken]

it just seems to me like penance brand is heavily leaning towards a clear skill

under optimal circumstances favoring penance, storm brand gets better single target dps both on base damage and added damage

[vast gazelle]

hm wolfram alpha is saying it never catches up but that seems off

oh i see

once you add in the DE the overall multi is 8.2 and storm brand is 9.66

i see 🤔

wait no

at higher cast speeds it does overtake

i think?

[normal kraken]

I don't see what makes cast speed more effective on penance than storm brand

[vast gazelle]

ah

[normal kraken]

am I missing something?

[vast gazelle]

i misread my graph

[native sonnet]

Yeah, i tried putting 0, 150 and 500 cast speed no meaningful difference

[vast gazelle]

storm brand is better at around 10-15 flat added lulw

have you factored in conversion scaling yet

[normal kraken]

that is a good point

penance can scale along that mechanic

[vast gazelle]

stormbrand can have the chaos damage conversion but iirc phys conversion is the absolute best

not only do you leverage more damage nodes on the tree, you get another stage to gain extra added as

[native sonnet]

Yeah im aware of that but was really hoping its not balanced around those mechanics

[normal kraken]

but still, penance brand requires significantly more micromanaging

[native sonnet]

Not to mention u have to invest in converting the remaining half first

[vast gazelle]

im not sure about that - cast twice and dodge for a few seconds

thats generally not a big deal - there are like

2 nodes on tree +gloves or phys to lightning you take

[native sonnet]

Like u could skip all that abd use storm brand and have more dmg

[vast gazelle]

at this point im not convinced of the latter

since you get an extra stage to use and abuse harness the void and other nonchaos as chaos sources

[normal kraken]

yeah overall I do think penance will just feel better

the clear looks good

[vast gazelle]

and it never really feels bad to do damage to bosses in big chunks

even if a fast hitting skill is “”better””

[native sonnet]

Yeah better shock and freeze

[vast gazelle]

also you can consider ignite on penance brand

[native sonnet]

Was just surprised by the dmg difference of 25 %

[vast gazelle]

that wasnt really a thing for storm brand

and single big thicc hit with huge more multi generally compares very favorably even to buffed cases like fireball and arma brand

[native sonnet]

And thought maybe i fudged the math

[quiet geyser]

Lightning warp arcanist brand intensifyed

[native sonnet]

How’s the popcorn viper

[violet nymph]

pretty sure LW arcanist brand teleports you

[quiet geyser]

Thats the plan

Vulpine you liked math right? 🤔

[vast gazelle]

aye

[native sonnet]

Vulpine math(related) major?

[quiet geyser]

Can i send you a spreadsheet with Arcanist Brand vs self cast and you check if i didnt did my math wrong? :^)

[vast gazelle]

if its an online spreadsheet link

[quiet geyser]

yes

[vast gazelle]

im on my ipad and cant really open spreadsheet files

k

[violet nymph]

i wonder if lining up ruthless/fist of war/impaler will actually be fun or satisfying

i hope there is an indicator for impaler at least

and i wish there was an indicator for ruthless

not to mention warcry exertion lol

this build can line up absolutely massive fucking amounts of more damage if i use my brain

and then store that damage with impaler

this is what pob currently says my dps is, but that's without literally any of the new stuff

so i could see this number going up to 1m or more

it's also without basically any gear at all

[sudden laurel]

'exerted attacks deal double damage' applies to ailments caused by attacks as well?

[violet nymph]

i don't think so

also lmao i forgot about the literal double damage shit

so uh

hoo boy

[sudden laurel]

oh double damage itself specifies a hit

on wiki

[normal kraken]

yeah double damage doesn't apply to ailments

[minor oyster]

wtf is a Deregulation Scroll

lol

[charred wind]

what is warcry speed? anyone knows?

[silver kettle]

it's how fast you perform a warcry. like attack speed or cast speed

[vast gazelle]

its like cast spee

but for warcries

yeah

hah beat viper

😄

[charred wind]

so its cast speed for warcry?

[wanton rivet]

it's how much time you're stuck warcrying before u can move

[vast gazelle]

its an inverse measure of how likely you are to get krangled during a warcry

[opaque galleon]

What you guys think of wintertide brand?

[bronze cave]

ahh i cant believe i practiced a miner league start many times only to league start full investment warcry zerker now

[opaque galleon]

I know brands have been gutted, but it looks cool to me.

[vast gazelle]

i thnk brands as a whole are strong and just require less passive of a playstyle

and wintertide is looking great

[violet nymph]

so by level 16 i'll be doing ridiculous damage all the time, and at level 38 it gets even bigger

i can vibe with that

[spare axle]

sounds good to me

[ocean narwhal]

lets hit things with hammers

or staves

[violet nymph]

i'm playing champion mace ground slam

[opaque galleon]

Is there a reason to pick an axe over a mace?

Or vice versa?

[violet nymph]

mace has way better area on the tree 🤷

axes have better base damage 🤷

[ocean narwhal]

Maces are better at stunning

[wild arch]

I can't figure out whether the new war bringer boosts ailment damage of exerted attacks

Judging by the wording I'd assume it boosts all damage including ailments that come from the attacks

But idk

[hasty perch]

could be both yep

[violet nymph]

"attacks deal 50% more damage" i think doesn't do ailment

[wild arch]

The way I understand it is it's just generic more damage with exerted attacks

So that it doesn't work with let's say spells or whatever

[vast gazelle]

im very tempted to get the new set of rigwalds weapons

stack rage

and be the Extra Angry Berzerker

[wild arch]

Here's a fun little idea: use the axe and redblade banner

Pop berserk, and when it's about to expire warcry to refill your rage instantly and continue going

Wait nvm...

You need to dual wield to get the bonus rage

Ooooooooh

Came up with a use for the updated ungil

Non crit blitz zerker

[slender temple]

so last league the melee meta was casting fist. now is it casting AXE ?

[vast gazelle]

thats really clever

i like it

[wild arch]

Just remembered something

Looks like we got some clashing information

Seismic cry's exert and war bringer are written the same way

But supposedly one works with ailments and the other doesn't?

Screw it, asked Mark directly on reddit

Let's hope there's an answer 🙏

[sour mountain]

i wonder if general's cry is good

with dominating blow

[violet nymph]

i have a feeling it doesn't work how you want it to work

[wild arch]

Dom blow is probably the intended use for it

[violet nymph]

they use your stats

sooo

the dominating blow cap would be the same as your dominating blow cap

[wild arch]

Yeah but the main purpose is to tag several enemies in one tap instead of running around and tagging them individually

[normal kraken]

you lose too much damage on your sentinels

[wild arch]

Regarding the exerts: I just don't see the reason why it wouldn't boost ailment damage

[normal kraken]

just go ancestral warcry

[lucid stone]

They only hit once

[wild arch]

It's not like slow melee ignites would be that much better than the usual divine ire ignite with the 50% more damage

[violet nymph]

so let's see here... straight double damage from intimidating, 30% more from seismic, like 60-70% more from fist of war (it's currently in a 5l)... maybe some other thing i forget. comes out to like 1.3m dps lol

1.3m is definitely not the actual number

if i manage to line up ruthless, fist of war, and the large hits from seismic cry, i'll be able to do such a big hit (i'm also using the impaler keystone) that i'll get fucking massive burst

and the next hits after that with the impale stuff will be nuts

[wild arch]

Not sure if damage per second is an accurate measurement for attacks that you're supposed to use a minimum of once every 1.8 seconds

[violet nymph]

that's fair

the strength of this build is in burst damage

and the impaler keystone means any enemy that doesn't die to the first hit will die in the second hit as long as they aren't a boss

given i didn't just hit them with leap slam lol

[wild arch]

The more I theorycraft about slow attacks, the more I just want to go fast

[violet nymph]

i played a ground slam marauder through act 1 yesterday and some how it ended up faster than the TR shadow run i did only hours before

probably because i got a good weapon

[wild arch]

Could be layouts

[violet nymph]

PARTICLE

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2874529/page/1#p23274466

WOAH.

[wild arch]

Those slams

[lucid stone]

Ooh

[wild arch]

I like them

That's the good kind of slamming

[devout osprey]

question about that, do you need dynamic on for it to work?

[wild arch]

Dynamic just reduces particles if you have too many of them

[devout osprey]

Do i need dynamic resolution for it to work?*

[violet nymph]

no

dynamic particle culling isn't an option i don't think

it's just a thing they're adding to specific skills to make them perform better

[devout osprey]

" The system aims to stay within the specified target frame rate, working in conjunction with Dynamic Resolution." this sounds like to me it would work if my FPS is capped too.

its the word conjunction that confuses me

[slender temple]

it means if u have dynamic resolution on it will work wiht it

[devout osprey]

i need that simpler brainlet english explanation thanks

[rocky nebula]

It makes shiny go boom boom

[median wharf]

Where's the new vaal timeless keystone? Immortal ambition, i havent seen it shown anywhere

[brave pulsar]

it's probably the soul tether one

[vast gazelle]

they havent shown it yet

[violet nymph]

it's definitely the soul tether one

[pearl fossil]

man, this is only my second league, but harvest crafting is nuts.

[zealous monolith]

The explanation of the league mechanic looks very interesting but at the same time, rather confusing.

[pearl fossil]

latest post fills in the missing gaps, and you can eventually store crafting options indefinately, though a limited amount.

[zealous monolith]

I am reading the latest post right now and I'm having a bit of trouble understanding things

[hasty perch]

bruh this seems BROKEN

you can target craft

so much

[ocean narwhal]

Whatcha confused about scarlet

[hasty perch]

like "remove a target fire mod" if the item only has one

is litteraly chose what you annul

[ocean narwhal]

Also yeah the league mechanic is gonna be STRONK for crafters

and you'll be leveling with them crafting options to

[zealous monolith]

How do you acquire the infrastructure things and how do you acquire lifeforce?

[hasty perch]

same thing for add a fire mod

some items have very little fire mods

[ocean narwhal]

Infrastructure things probably come from the NPC

[hasty perch]

and can pretty much target the one or two fire mods you're looking for

[ocean narwhal]

The lifeforce is got by harvesting the crops

it's the main reason to harvest the crops actually

[hasty perch]

especially if you use the crafting bench in a clever way

like locking mods

to force a + fire gem mod on a staff or something

[sharp iron]

Belts and jewels are now the only equipment types you can't get an enchantment on

[zealous monolith]

So the garden is like a separate zone like synthesis, right? What is found in normal zones/maps then? seeds?

[ocean narwhal]

Seeds

Seeds are found in boxes in zones and maps

[sonic glen]

so am I wrong in thinking that even the tier 1 seeds are pretty damn powerful? like, remove a non-caster mod and add a caster mod, that's nuts

[ocean narwhal]

pick up seeds, take em to garden, plant, wait, harvest (by placing a harvest machine by the plants) craft and repeat

[zealous monolith]

How does the waiting tick? Does it advance if I simply do another map?

[ocean narwhal]

Time passes every time you find a seed crate

[pearl fossil]

clicking on a seed pod in a map

[ocean narwhal]

or seed pod or whatever'll drop the seeds

[sonic glen]

one per map right?

[ocean narwhal]

iirc yes

but there'll be a bunch of seeds in each one

[sonic glen]

yes, many seeds in a cache

[ocean narwhal]

and they've got their own inventory so you don't need to worry about inventory shenanigans

[sonic glen]

do we know if a "revealed" craft can be used multiple times?

[pearl fossil]

gd, T3 seed that lets you craft another option twice....

[sonic glen]

like, I spend all my purpleness to get tons of Niko missions

ah, nevermind.

[ocean narwhal]

I dunno if you can use the same option twice

[pearl fossil]

Merp....: Exchange 10 Chaos Orbs for an Exalted Orb

[ocean narwhal]

But you'll definately be limited by how much life force you have

[sonic glen]

wow, Hatchling seeds

so much for actually using basic currency

[hasty perch]

the T1 seeds are also broken like wtf

[sonic glen]

like, targeted "bad" annul and targeted "good" exalt

[hasty perch]

some items only have one fire mod or cold mod or stuff like that

[sonic glen]

is a tier 1 seed

just ONE tier 1 seed

well, who knows how much energy

[hasty perch]

you can litteraly spamm "add a fire resist" on gloves and remove it till you get a T1 fire res

[ocean narwhal]

Crafting resistances and life or whatever is gonna be smooth this league

[sonic glen]

so now I'm understanding a bit why the devs said they might have broken the game

[hasty perch]

and on crusader gloves the only fire prefix you can roll if you craft fire damage to attacks on bench

is conversion

that doesn't seem balanced

[sonic glen]

tier 1 blue seed: six link

[ocean narwhal]

Dang

I'm not reading the notes because spoilers but dang

[sonic glen]

it appears to be random 3-6, so maybe the 6 is rare?

even from the seed

but....still

guaranteed craft once you have it show up

[ocean narwhal]

6 is 100% going to be rare

[sonic glen]

but even if it's rare...you can

will probably take gobs of blueness, though

might need bigger seeds to power it?

even if you reveal

[atomic arrow]

That roll fuse 10x doesn't seem that strong, it probably still uses normal chances

[hasty perch]

hahahhahahaha

[zealous monolith]

I wonder if the white socket thing is spammable

non corrupted 6W incoming

[ocean narwhal]

Do they mention how long to grow though?

[sonic glen]

each cache is a "cycle"

[hasty perch]

on armors the only caster modifier is flat spellcrit

[sonic glen]

I imagine the big seeds take a while

[hasty perch]

Xd

a T1 seed forces an exalt spellcrit on shaper armors

[ocean narwhal]

I saw like "20 cycles needed" on some seeds earlier on I think

Which means 20 maps

[sonic glen]

ugh, this is going to take so much diving into wikis to look at available mods

like, what are the chaos mods on boots, I wonder

this'll be my second league, so I've only scratched the surface

I like the unique conversion

for targeted uniques critical to a build, that's huge

[pearl fossil]

probably your better bet is research a bish garden plot pattern, learn what sells best, then bank/sell them and just buy your broken items

[sonic glen]

turn your jank unique into the one you want, and keep trying until you get it

[safe harbor]

is there an idiot's guide to understanding the league mechanic? there seems to be a lot going on here

[sonic glen]

we all have the same info 😦

[pearl fossil]

depends on what you want to do

[sonic glen]

oh, hah, I love this one

[devout osprey]

i want that too tbh, not trying to be rude

[sonic glen]

divination card gambling

Sacrifice up to half a stack of Divination Cards to receive between 0 and twice that amount of the same Card

[devout osprey]

guess ill read up tommorw

[safe harbor]

i get the basic conceit - you plant a seed, you do things, X cycles later your seeds become plants

[sonic glen]

Sacrifice a stack of Divination Cards for that many different Divination Cards

I imagine that rarity rules are followed for div exchange

but at least I won't have to actually turn in all those scholars

[devout osprey]

its the "you do things" that i dont get

im in no rush ill take it slow at league start

[pearl fossil]

Do things just means, run a map, and click a seed pod. Each time you click a seed pod, you advance the time to grow a seed. Higher tier seeds require longer growth times. Collect your seeds and eithe craft or feed the life force to your higer tier seed plots.

Youl

You'll figure it out.

[safe harbor]

hm yeah it's the last bit that's complex cause there seems to be a number of pieces going on there, but i guess if it is good design it should be easy to figure out as we go along

[sullen scroll]

So the farm is like Harvest Moon?

[sonic glen]

so tier 1 seeds pop and you craft things with the energy after you kill the monsters

[ocean narwhal]

except you fight the harvest

[sonic glen]

you can't store the crafts, it's craft now or it goes away

[ocean narwhal]

well you can sort of store the energy

[sonic glen]

sorry, yes, you can't store the crafts

[ocean narwhal]

yeah

[sonic glen]

leftover energy can be stored, and you use that to feed tier 2 seeds

[ocean narwhal]

you'll need the energy for higher tiers yeah

tier 2 seeds drop from tier 1 monsters though

[hasty perch]

oi

that tier 2 seed

[sonic glen]

ah, so only tier 1 seeds in maps?

[hasty perch]

gives suffixes can't be changed

that's a 2 ex craft

[ocean narwhal]

getting tier 4 seeds is gonna be tricky

[hasty perch]

what the

[sonic glen]

you thin kthat's nuts

check the level 1 crafts

Remove a random non-Caster modifier from an item and add a new Caster modifier

Remove a random non-Physical modifier from an item and add a new Physical modifier

[barren ingot]

yeah but very lucrative

[sonic glen]

targeted annul, targeted exalt

guaranteed to be "good"

[barren ingot]

since tier 4 seeds are all extremely desirable by people already throwing fat stacks of vash around

[sonic glen]

You may also eventually find a way to store crafting options for later use via a Horticrafting Station. This, like other infrastructure elements, will need to be connected to a Collector to function, but can store a limited number of crafting options indefinitely.

nevermind what I said before...

[hasty perch]

on armors add a caster or add an attack mod

is basically here get spells/attacks have +% crit

no other outcome

[restive trellis]

you can just targeted get a speed modifier on boots as well

[hasty perch]

this is insane for crafting

HCSSF racers must be so damn happy rn

[restive trellis]

already I'm pretty sure you can guaranteed make bleed axes

so easily

[hasty perch]

you can target craft all your gear

[restive trellis]

since the bleed mods aren't physical mods

so you just abuse the physical crafting things

and yea

I swear trying to think of all the dumb things you can do with this is melting my brain

Attempt to Awaken a level 20 Support Gem that can be Awakened with a 5% chance. If it does not Awaken, it is destroyed.
wtf is this

[hasty perch]

Attempt to Awaken a level 20 Support Gem that can be Awakened with a 5% chance. If it does not Awaken, it is destroyed.
5% chance 60+ exalts

haha saw at the same time

that's more than 1 ex average

[restive trellis]

Exchange 10 Chaos Orbs for an Exalted Orb

this seems like a good deal

ggg is actually memeing this league

[hasty perch]

I think you're on exalted orb side tho

[ocean narwhal]

I dunno

that's a shitty exchange rate if that's the case

I think trade balance is going out the window this league

[restive trellis]

you're on the chaos orb side

although I wonder how much ex will be

I guess they'll be used for bench stuff

but there's better ways to craft compared to meta crafting

so idk how much ex will be this league

Reforges the links between sockets on an item, linking six sockets

this will be rare

but

still

unique into another unique of that type

what's the best abuse case?

I can think of nightmare bascinet

[ocean narwhal]

There's a couple

[restive trellis]

and headhunter is an obvious one

[ocean narwhal]

back in the day people used to do it with lycosidae

because it had a low item level

for lycosidae*

was that using ancient orbs? I think it was

[restive trellis]

it's actually going to be dumb on ssf

yea but type is base type right?

weren't ancient orbs different?

or am I forgetting how they worked since I don't use them

if it keeps base type

you can force perdify into kaoms

don't remember how much perdify is worth

Sacrifice up to half a stack of Divination Cards to receive between 0 and twice that amount of the same Card
10/10 gambling

you're actually going to have to keep

so much random stuff on you

like I'm actully going to have like 3 tabs just for crafting projects

Primal Blisterlord Bulb
is going to be so good early if you can access it

[hasty perch]

perfidy makes a kaom's heart

[restive trellis]

yep

[hasty perch]

oh you wrote it already

[restive trellis]

kintsugi> yriels

[hasty perch]

there's probably several good ones

[sonic glen]

just so that I understand the terminology

type = wand, base type = driftwood wand

yes?

[restive trellis]

I'm not sure

I'm guessing type = want

not base type

because it would actually be too insane

if it worked the other way

but I don't know

cloak of tawm islay>garb of ephemeral if it works the other way

so I'm 99% sure it doesn't work that way

oh yea if it worked that way you could force farrul's fur

no way it works like tha

t

that would be way too broken

Enchant Body Armour. Quality does not increase its Defences, grants +1 Maximum Life per 2% quality

this is strong

I'm guessing harvest crafting respects metamods right?

[hasty perch]

it drives me crazy

how easy it is to target mods with a tag

on armor especially

[restive trellis]

yep

[hasty perch]

if you just bench craft dodge on your conq armor

you'll get -15 mana cost for sure

so many abusable

they're lucky the reflect x damage mod exists on armor

[restive trellis]

there's no way that harvest mods

respect meta crafts right?

[hasty perch]

idk

[restive trellis]

otherwise it actually becomes insane

if they do respect them

[hasty perch]

but if there was no reflect x damage mods the add phys mod on a crusader armor with phys damage taken as lightning

would force explodey

[restive trellis]

huh

[vast gazelle]

my current bet is 5 dudes will exploit the fact that it is to make mirrors

then there will be mald posts on reddit about it

and ggg will say oopsie forgot

[hasty perch]

it looks super nice for ssf they'll have actual trade league rare gear

for those who have the time i mean

[restive trellis]

you can force more socketed spell damage

on weapons

[hasty perch]

Sacrifice up to half a stack of Divination Cards to receive between 0 and twice that amount of the same Card
hehehehehe

[restive trellis]

only caster prefix

[hasty perch]

gambling doctors

[restive trellis]

so you can just

force socketed spells deal more damage

for free

[hasty perch]

Sacrifice a stack of Divination Cards for that many different Divination Cards
welp rain of chaos just became usefull

hard to not make 1c off 8 cards

[restive trellis]

unnerve gloves can be forced for free

you know I'm going to make a word doc

of everything that can be forced

actually way too much to keep track of

[wanton rivet]

the economy is gonna be so whacky this is gonna be a fun league

[hasty perch]

yeah it's really interesting how much RNG got dunked

[restive trellis]

yep

shame there isn't anything for attribute rolls

[hasty perch]

the exchange splinters/breachstone or emblem for another type

are just pure money too

as long as you use the cheapest

nice stuff

[restive trellis]

good news

you can force tailwind boots

and honestly the remove a non speed modifier

and add a speed modifier

100%

hits speed or tailwind

so if you take a pair of boots with 35% movespeed

you can add tailwind at the cost of annuling another roll

I think the most powerful mod

is the remove x to add new x

modifier

[vast gazelle]

guaranteed tailwind is lit

because you can take good boots that bricked on tailwind

and craft this and benchcraft MS

[restive trellis]

or just remove random modifier add random speed modifier

and get speed

or if you have 35% movespeed boots

remove random add random speed

100% 35% movespeed tailwind boots

wait

the critical modifier

that's a new tag isn't it?

[silver kettle]

it is

[native sonnet]

is ilvl and lvl restriction still a thing on seeds (i.e harbor bridge) ?

think bex mentioned that before

but was expecting to see that in the post and maybe whats the limit/range to still trigger cycles

[restive trellis]

can force es on kill

[untold dragon]

Seeing conflicting info everywhere - Can you use harvest crafting to change/add/remove mods from unique items??

[vast gazelle]

no

[hasty perch]

good thing there's elusive on the tree now

so you can zoom zoom with your 35% ms tailwind boots

🤔

[untold dragon]

Was it already possible to get more than 2 influence modifiers on an item? If no, will it be with harvest crafting?

[worldly mountain]

ye it was

[untold dragon]

ok

[restive trellis]

@untold dragon doubt it will be possible

[normal kraken]

viper, is ice storm playable with the new particle stuff?

[restive trellis]

non chaos as extra chaos can be forced

@normal kraken depends on your computer

and you actually have really good odds

[normal kraken]

ice storm performance playability is way beyond computer specs

at high investment it can burn any setup, currently

[restive trellis]

of hitting cdotm amulets

[sullen scroll]

ironic. Ice Particles burning a Computer

[restive trellis]

you can force es recovery rate belts

[hasty perch]

hey , since crit is a new keyword

add a crit mod to redeemer boots

[restive trellis]

wait I just realised something

[hasty perch]

is elusive on crit

[restive trellis]

with Remove a random Chaos modifier from an item and add a new Chaos modifier
mods

can you craft a chaos modifier on something

then use it

to change the crafted modifier into another modifier

[hasty perch]

to target another

yes most likely

[restive trellis]

that breaks things so badly

you can change crafted movespeed

into non crafted movespeed

if you can do that

[hasty perch]

you can also target a lot of stuff with that change in another

like +1 chaos gems amulet by removing the chaos leech

[restive trellis]

you can craft spell damage on a weapon then use it to force more socketed spell damage

[gentle kayak]

wtf is Exerted attacks

[violet nymph]

a number of attacks after using a warcry @gentle kayak

specified by the gem

[gentle kayak]

interesting.thx

[sonic glen]

I'm really liking the unique reroll craft

I tend to hoard them, so this makes them potentially useful

[hasty perch]

wait

does that mean you should solo map each

then group to kill grove stuff

to maximise loot

[sonic glen]

probably

everyone gets independent t1 seeds, then you start pooling the t2-t4 seeds

[ocean narwhal]

it seems like t1 seeds are best farmed solo

[echo dove]

Has bex clarified the map level/seed level restrictions that were mentioned a while ago?

[native sonnet]

nop

[echo dove]

What about level restrictions on crafts? Chris had said during the initial interview that they could give out more "exalt crafts" early during levelling and then less late game.

which would only be possible if there's some sort of level linkage/restriction between the craft and the item being crafted

[oblique falcon]

There different type of tier 1/2/3 are those "obtained" random or you can somehow farm for specific tier seed, not sure i was about to get it

[echo dove]

Tier 1 seeds drop in maps

t2 seeds drop from t1 harvest fights

t3 seeds drop from t2 harvest fights

etc.

[oblique falcon]

Are they random tho

[echo dove]

appears that way

[icy shore]

if I understand right, you can not sell crafts only service them right?

[oblique falcon]

So its putting layer of RNG on top of another layer of RNG which will result i rng outcome?

[echo dove]

you can't sell crafts directly

but if you trust someone, you could give them an item to craft for you

hint, don't trust randoms

[icy shore]

so can I ask what the best awakened sup gem to sell at level 20 for the 5% craft is gonna be?

[echo dove]

based on current values, Multistrike

[oblique falcon]

From the way i look at it you wont find 20 in order to complete even a single one i guess

[echo dove]

or awakened spell echo

[oblique falcon]

Or by the time you manage, it wont be so good. I think we need to see how the drop rates are and how much time/materials it requires to complete a single seed

[icy shore]

O im just gonna farm those gems to 20 and sell those for people to brick. or buy out the market a bit if underpriced

[echo dove]

it's still going to be worth it if you get that craft while going for the gem xp crafts

[oblique falcon]

Looks like target farming wont be a thing

[echo dove]

you can just buy the seeds, so yes it will be

[oblique falcon]

How come buying the seeds make it target farming? I don't get how is that valid point. If you are trying to defend the rng part if there is no need, i am not trying to be toxic or bash the league or anything, sorry if my input sounded grumpy and picky, wasn't my intention

[echo dove]

Of course it's still rng

[icy shore]

"target rng" farming

[echo dove]

but if you really want a particular craft, you can buy it by just grabbing bulk units of that seed

this is still PoE, right

[oblique falcon]

Well take "The Doctor" for instance, yes its target rng farming

[ocean narwhal]

yall have different definitions

[icy shore]

gemcutters are gonna be so cheap this league

[ocean narwhal]

One is saying "target farming" by only planting a particular seed, while the other's defines it as maximizing the chance to get the seed to drop

also >target farming >in harvest league

dohoho

[echo dove]

t10, that's a t3, it's not going to make them cheaper than last league

[icy shore]

Tier 2
Vivid Razorleg Grain

Exchange 10 Chromatic Orbs for 20 Gemcutter's Prisms

[echo dove]

oh, that one, yea

i don't think it's going to be that big

you don't drop a ton of high quality corrupted gems

I guess you could use vaal orbs to make them

[ocean narwhal]

I wonder how big of a decision it's going to be to either use a craft or save the juice for the next tier

[echo dove]

I see a number of really good seeds to use during levelling, so that at least should get used

[icy shore]

I think you will be able to max your own gems before hitting 90 just by doing the things

I always had to buy prisms

[ocean narwhal]

Yeah but what if you get a real nice craft but you were planning on using the juice to feed your t2s

This is gonna be an interesting league

even bottom tier seeds are gonna be useful if that's the case

[echo dove]

yea, that's why I was wondering if there was any more info about level restrictions they mentioned, but we have nothing

[icy shore]

I think it will be grindy as hell, until they buff the juice you get after 3 patches

[cobalt field]

I think you'll get enough low tier seed crafts that if you land a good one you'll have plenty of bad ones coming to save juice for higher tiers

[finite stump]

HarbingerUberMap that's all I'm saying

[primal whale]

Considering how beyond broken some crafts are it's fine for them to be a little more rare

[finite stump]

(poedb.tw is up and running with datamined)

[ocean narwhal]

I'm likely going to have tier 1 garden for actual good crafts that I want

[icy shore]

they tend to undertune leagues as of late

[ocean narwhal]

and a tier 1 garden for producing juice

[primal whale]

How are they supposed to datamine without files?

eh?

[finite stump]

Torrent is out?

And has been out

[primal whale]

Oh right torrent is a thing

Upgraded Harbinger items?

[next epoch]

datamined images only for now

[finite stump]

Yeah it is. So yeah go look at the shiny new upgraded harbinger uniques from HarbingerUberMap and the "detonate brands" staff

[next epoch]

the items with stats have all been teased, afaik

[primal whale]

Oh boy

[finite stump]

The data of them is locked behind serverside till they drop

[primal whale]

I hope they have 3D Art

thats a sick skin transfer xD

[finite stump]

So far we only have the clientside strings

[next epoch]

@finite stump not even that actually

Just the image filenames.

[primal whale]

"BloodSandQuiver"

We melee bow or what?

Welp now I am excited

[finite stump]

I feel like this is a mix between rigwald and harbinger lore wise

[primal whale]

Like?

[finite stump]

Cause of the talisman looking necklaces plus the bear and Raven being referenced

And the the tie-ins with rigwald

[primal whale]

Plis no Talisman

[finite stump]

Wasn't it during the rigwalds unique reveal that it said something about fighting rigwald?

[primal whale]

There was a rigwalds reveal?

I have no idea about lore stuff lel

[finite stump]

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2871244

[primal whale]

Oh the rework stuff

[finite stump]

.. nd evoke the Rigwald fight. .. I mean it could just be wordplay but you never know with Bex

[primal whale]

Hm.. interesting

I mean there is thornwolf enemies so might be him

[finite stump]

Lore in Poe is fucking amazing btw... Like actually amazingly deep

All pieced together from unique flavour text, carvings, NPC dialogue etc

There's a wiki post that has like the synopsis

https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/History_of_Wraeclast

[primal whale]

Well I can't really be bothered with lore stuff on my own

[raw dew]

im probably not gunna be planting any of my seeds until reddit makes some op layout XD

[primal whale]

Just test it out while leveling

low level seeds will have no use outside of the acts

[finite stump]

The PDF versions of it @primal whale is 256 pages lol

[raw dew]

True I can always remove the condensers and such after the acts

[primal whale]

Yeah nah thanks xD

[finite stump]

The lore stuff actually has made it a lot more fun tho after knowing why some shit happens the way it does

Iike pietys official reason for being exiled to wraeclast is cause she a hooker

But the true reason is much deeper