1┃mirage-league

[violet nymph]

any particular reason

all the good strike stuff is in bottom left

all the good damage is in top left

[native sonnet]

Life is too low

[violet nymph]

fair

[native sonnet]

Gonna want at least 170/180 before jewels

Too many damage clusters, resulting in both diminishing return and ineffcient patching

That thread of hope is dubious

[violet nymph]

saves 6 points

well, 4 technically

[native sonnet]

Try to include cluster jewel instead of some of the clusters on tree

How much value are those giving u versus the opportunity cost of a life and 30 multi jewel

[violet nymph]

scion life wheel? lol

this one has 180%

loses 60k damage but 🤷

[light jay]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[errant warren]

Is noone building clusters into their trees anymore?

Jewels*

[arctic briar]

@errant warren not sure how rare they drop, as league starter don't try to rely on stuff that's gated way too far behind unless you know what you're doing.

[wild arch]

Confirmed to have 25% drop chance per reward tier from deliriums

When you hit 4 (which is ez to do) you get a guaranteed jewel

There should be a decent amount popping up once people start juicing their maps

[gloomy bay]

It should be a lot more consistent to get good small cluster bases too that way if you can get juiced up T18 maps

[fair prairie]

the price of 1point voices will be a bit nutters with how much harder it is to get Simu's. probably although maybe the nerf to herald and auras will help that some.

[cobalt falcon]

Balanced

[violet nymph]

any love for necro or new spectres in harvest?

[barren crescent]

didn't we get like 200 or 300 new specters last league?

[violet nymph]

ye and onlyone was good

awesome..

[barren crescent]

you really think ppl tried all of them?

[violet nymph]

yes

most are complete garbage

[cursive widget]

think im gonna go BL miner and then respec later most likely

also, you can probably lay down all your mines in the garden and then start the lifeforce thing and bam, all the monsters die instantly anyway

just like with bosses

[wild arch]

Pretty much

Unless they got proxy shields

[frigid holly]

@violet nymph Some of the support spectres were pretty nice - arena master, baranite cleric

[golden kelp]

hi, does anyone know if herald of thunder will trigger if I shock someone whos already shocked while using the new storm secret ring?

[silver kettle]

@golden kelp it does

[golden kelp]

is there a cooldown for this trigger?

[radiant lance]

late, but even if you're basically guaranteed a cluster jewel drop every mirror encounter, you still have to 1. find a usable one (or buy a usable one), 2. find a usable one with a decently low number of passives, 3. roll it with the stats you want. You're probably not going to have too many on the market early on, so relying on them is foolish imo, also if you're planning anything that could potentially be meta , like brands, warcries, mana stuff for archmage, minions etc... you're gonna be fighting other people for the shiny jewels too in the beginning.

[solid hill]

yeah, especially the fact that any large or medium jewel that doesn't drop with the right number of passives is more or less trash

[radiant lance]

yeah, lots of trash jewels gonna be dropping

[solid dirge]

@solid hill that's not true really - having a couple points of tax due to imperfect number of passives is not a huge deal at league start

[radiant lance]

i think it depends how important the cluster notables are for your particular build

if its just a nice to have, i'd probably just wait

[vast gazelle]

1 drop per mirror should about put them at same rarity as before

they’re fairly rare on a per mirror/map/etc. basis right now

its just the league mechanic

[errant warren]

normally with league mechanics they scale up the drop rates. Also, delirium should have a higher rate of appearnace than most others because it spawns more if you have more content from OTHER leagues active on the map

So if you are doing zana mod + scarab + sextant you should get them regularly i would think

[wanton rivet]

i hope it spawns almost all the time since its theo nly source of cluster jewels

[swift schooner]

Simulacrum prices are gonna rise too

[storm crown]

each reward level of delium has 25% chance to dropp a cluster so

[swift schooner]

Dont think that includes unique clusters

[violet nymph]

yeah unique cluster jewels are just from bosses in simulacrum

chris estimated we'd have already found a few cluster jewels by the time we get to maps

cause delirium can start spawning as early as act 6

or maybe it was act 5

don't remember

[shy belfry]

Looks like i'm touching enemies like Doryani used to in this new league.

[lucid stone]

Is there a limit on the number of spikes you can put down with earthshatter?

[latent kindle]

Seems like til they explode she said you can stack a trail of them to blow up later

[lucid stone]

They have a duration, so far as I can tell from the post.

[rocky nebula]

The new gloves look good

[lucid stone]

New gloves what

Impale Prolif?

[rocky nebula]

New unique gloves with impale mods

Yeah

[lucid stone]

Well, that's an unpleasant sounding flavor text. :3

[uncut warren]

one question on the new gloves

will the damage apply in a similiar way like explode

or will it just stack up in nearby mods meaning my next hit will deal more damage?

[native sonnet]

explode

[marsh wyvern]

those new gloves look sexy

thats a hell of a lot of damage spread around

i like what they are going for with the slams but honestly i dont think its fast enough in the current poe to be played much outside of league starters.

but then again this league doesnt seem to be a speed meta based one

i might have to try EQ though, ive never played it

earthshatter looks cool tho. could prolly stack a ton of dmg with just atk speed

[wild arch]

Those perforate changes made me realize we can actually do a 2 handed gladiator

[hasty perch]

I'm mainly happy because this league's mechanic won't ruin my fps

That and vulkan the league is looking good for laptop users

[wild arch]

2 handed lacerate gladiator could have some mad clear with general's cry

Wait no

The new skill with general's

[marsh wyvern]

which one, earthshatter?

[wild arch]

Yeah

It said that allies can detonate the spikes

So the ghosts should create a massive chain reaction

[marsh wyvern]

but wouldnt they go off on your next attack anyway though?

[wild arch]

Doesn't matter how they pop

As long as the ghosts cover the screen or more instantly

[marsh wyvern]

i had to look it up. so like the ghost would use the earthshatter and you use a cry?

[wild arch]

Either that or your own slam

Assuming you use a 2 hander, getting 6 links this league will be easier than ever

Using 2 skill setups with general and infernal cry seems completely reasonable

[marsh wyvern]

im not sure about the change to sunder. seems like a nerf lol

[wild arch]

Nerf to dual wield if anything

[marsh wyvern]

it had decent aoe and range but now you have to play it slow to get any range

but i get that, its more 'melee' than it was

honestly i'll prolly try something with brands to start with

[wild arch]

Poison perforate assassin could be a thing

[kindred dagger]

the new chest makes all your minion basicaly immortal now ? especially AG which was alrleady hard to kill

but the big trade off is that it doesnt offer anything to the player

[compact junco]

you mean that life to es conversion chest? no, it actually makes your minions squishier

especially AG

[wild arch]

Gotta be careful not to hit 50% Res tho

[kindred dagger]

mmmmh why is that ? i just realise its convert and not "add as bonus ES" but still

i assume that all your life converted is converted with the HP bonus so

[compact junco]

because you cant really convert their regen, so you would need to use ES leech gem. and also you cant go over 50% chaos res, so they take more damage

[wild arch]

100% hp converted to es will kill them instantly

[compact junco]

and also the tankiest AG setup is mask of the stitched demon

and this has anti-synergy with that

[kindred dagger]

yeah minion got great life regen and leech with few because of the huge life pool, makes sens

[wild arch]

Oh so that's why stitched demon got so expensive

[kindred dagger]

not really sure though the meaning of this chest unless some glass canon popcorn for the ignore elem res, or minion that cant really be hit or refresh instant like dervish, crawler, maybe sentinels

[wild arch]

Ranged elemental spectres can use this

That's about it

[compact junco]

not really because +1 spectre bodies

[kindred dagger]

but if spectres die its fucked up to res them, isnt there skeelies that could use of this ? that would be better

[wild arch]

Unless they reveal something else the chest just seems underwhelming

It doesn't work with instability popcorn either

[kindred dagger]

while reading the chest i was like maybe if a line says that player can also benefit from it, theres a chance it can be usefull but yeah now all of this is clirify, not sure what is the purpose of this chest exept for what i said maybe some glass canon build, as beeing necro is way more risky than before since 3.10 nerfed them quite some

@wild arch why instability doesnt work ? im pretty sure its count as a hit from the minions

[wild arch]

Warcry Templar looks like the way to go now

The damage scales off minion life

[kindred dagger]

oh fuck me

[wild arch]

You're directly reducing their life with the chest

[kindred dagger]

i use to be smarter than that i swear

[versed dock]

The body could be interesting with HoAg maybe... but then again, a lot of other bodies would be better at that point probably

Not sure how much elemental res bosses for example have

[tender tusk]

bosses have 50%

at least endgame bosses do

i think maps are a bit lower

the chest just seems pointless when EE exists

[cunning blaze]

which means inc nerf to EE

[weak vine]

I saw people were talking about the new body here

[velvet palm]

ew summoner

[versed dock]

I mean, I don't like playing Summoner either; However the Agony Crawler has a special place in my heart ❤️

[copper kernel]

Ggg have wanted to slap ee for a long time now

[tender tusk]

ee is fucking crazy

i'm shocked it hasn't been nerfed

[versed dock]

GGG be like it will give +50% res to the element you hit them with and -25% to the others

But isn't EE just a minion keystone anyway

[weak vine]

With the new chest plus Grave intentions which do you guys think rolls first? The passive skill or the item

[tender tusk]

they function together

Since grave is gained

[hasty perch]

new body would have been good if it wasn't a chest

[weak vine]

Yes but what I’m asking is

[versed dock]

yeah but does it convert first

[weak vine]

“Minions gain 10% of Maximum Life as Extra Maximum Energy Shield”

Is this post conversion or pre

[versed dock]

or does it let it gain first and convert after

[hasty perch]

but since it's a chest and you can't use it with animate guardian weapon voidforge it's garbo

[versed dock]

Yeah, that's a good one topflat, don't know. Hope it converts after*

[tender tusk]

gained is typically before conversion no?

isn't that why Nac is busted

[versed dock]

Id think this does it before conversion

[weak vine]

Oh well I’ll do some math on both but I think people are underestimating this body armour for spectres like risen Vaal advocates

They already have like 250k hp

[versed dock]

Otherwise it'd give interesting interactions with the chaos res it gives

[tender tusk]

it's just be 10%+100-x% life as es

based on your chaos res

[versed dock]

nah its based on their own chaos res right?

[weak vine]

Yes

[tender tusk]

minion chaos res

mb

[weak vine]

It’s based on minion CR

[tender tusk]

you get the idea tho

[versed dock]

So basically grave intentions gives 10% of the max hp + lets another 30% convert

[tender tusk]

honestly i see the chest more for heartbound shenanigans more than anything

[weak vine]

Risen Vaal advocates spawn with 20% CR, grave intentions would give them 35% and last I checked risen Vaal advocates have around 250k hp

So convert 70% to energy shield and they’re still beefy

[versed dock]

250k?

[weak vine]

Yeah

[tender tusk]

spectres are chunky

[weak vine]

RVAs are especially chunky

[versed dock]

that has to be some kind of spectre conversion then

[weak vine]

They have 35/35/35/20 resistances

Lemme pull up my rvas from this league

[versed dock]

But I never used Raise Spectre since I never tried to figure out how a build like that works

I could maybe try it upcoming league tbh

[tender tusk]

the chest just seems eh

since unless EE gets nerfed

it's ee but it takes up a gear slot with a minor benefit

[weak vine]

Nope I disagree

[tender tusk]

worse ee even

[midnight phoenix]

its a lot worse than ee

[tender tusk]

since it's not that effective versus trash mobs

[weak vine]

You don’t need to use added elemental damage, or anything to buff minions penetration you can focus on things like crit and larger clear plus death mark

[midnight phoenix]

theres nothing u need to do with elemental minions already

[tender tusk]

yeah

[versed dock]

Regarding the Risen Vaal Advocates, how would you go about summoning them regularly? Or do you just assume your Spectres almost never die

[midnight phoenix]

just ee is the same boss damage

[versed dock]

Since you can only get those from the Temple right?

[midnight phoenix]

which u get for free

[tender tusk]

it's put in a nova skill and cast it versus bosses

[weak vine]

@versed dock if you ever need to resummon you use desecrate

You can get them from incursions too

[midnight phoenix]

u dont rly need to resummon RVAs

they dont die

[weak vine]

Yeah they’re invincible

You can cap their res with nuts health

[versed dock]

Mhm, guess I might give that a try this league

[midnight phoenix]

chest isnt good tho, best i can tell

[tender tusk]

again, unless heartbound bulllshit happens

[midnight phoenix]

its just one to bookmark in case EE gets dumpstered at some point in future

but as long as EE is free for spectre builds theres no point

[tender tusk]

unless some ignite thing/elemental minions is busted

[weak vine]

this was the HP on my RVAs

[tender tusk]

i don't see why ee would get changed even tho it's crazy

[weak vine]

with 9k hp/s

[versed dock]

Could you share that PoB with me topflat? Just so I have some suggestions on what I could use 😛

[weak vine]

this chest is fine on RVAs

lol

[midnight phoenix]

ggg is on record as saying they want it to change in future

why would u bother with the chest

like what does it do

gives u some shit that u get for free

[weak vine]

thats the thing we have to figure out right?

you act like im gonna see new items and NOT wonder about them

that would be dumb

its new content

ima explore it

is that okay?

[midnight phoenix]

its more like we alrdy had this conversation in here yesterday

at some length

[weak vine]

okay well im here today

(:

[versed dock]

its more like we werent here at that moment 😛

[tender tusk]

there just doesn't seem to be much to the item

[midnight phoenix]

and we are summarizing the results of this conversation

[tender tusk]

it's bad ee on a bad chest

[midnight phoenix]

which is that EE is good and this chest is not

[versed dock]

I agree however, the item doesn't seem to be gamebreaking but could still be interesting

[tender tusk]

ee is free on minion builds

[midnight phoenix]

er its free on minion builds that arent srs

and not expensive on srs

[tender tusk]

Is srs even a thing

[weak vine]

if some streamer or legacy builder found an insane interaction youd both be wearing the chest on with everyone else in the league

[midnight phoenix]

its still not completely zero on srs tho so maybe theres some small application there

[versed dock]

I tried SRS in Delirium, pretty funny tbh

[midnight phoenix]

the item isnt interesting enough to find these interactions

its very straightforward

[weak vine]

if you dont wanna be here for the discussion try one of the other 30 channels in the discord or id imagie you have other servers

[midnight phoenix]

i should say

[versed dock]

Isn't there some mob that does interesting stuff with a lot of ES?

[weak vine]

but trying to control us from talking about new content?

yikes

[tender tusk]

he's not

[midnight phoenix]

im not saying dont talk about it

please do

but u need to actually answer the main issue here

which is that EE is a keystone

and it is much less build investment than ur entire chest slot

[vapid bramble]

Ee?

[midnight phoenix]

elemental equilibrium

[tender tusk]

elemental equilibrium

[vapid bramble]

Ok

[tender tusk]

i hope if they do change it they keep legacy EE on the ring

[versed dock]

what if I get EE on Skin of the Lords

Would that be good?

[tender tusk]

not really

[midnight phoenix]

its okay

saves u 2 skill points usually

[versed dock]

Saves me 1 point

2*

[midnight phoenix]

not exciting

[tender tusk]

artifice exists

[midnight phoenix]

other keystones are usually better on skin

[tender tusk]

and unless you're spells, skins isn't amazing

[midnight phoenix]

skin is great for spectres specifically

fwiw

er well

[tender tusk]

minion levels are nice, not as good as spell levels tho

[midnight phoenix]

its good until u get to 25

nice thing is its quite a cheap item

[tender tusk]

skins is a great budget thing if you can find one you can use

[midnight phoenix]

but yeah this is the kind of thing ur giving up for the chest right

[tender tusk]

+1 tabs yes please

[midnight phoenix]

like ur chest slot is a big deal

[weak vine]

simplifying this down to just EE would be the case if i didnt save gem slots to proc EE and this changes the gems youll run with your minions

[tender tusk]

1 gem slot isn't a lot to ask

it's -32% res at worst

[midnight phoenix]

sure, what gems are u gonna put in thats worth more than ur chest slot

[weak vine]

idk but im sure you havent exhausted all options since the item was announced 11 hours ago

[midnight phoenix]

chest is a pretty big deal its usually ur biggest build budget slot along with weapon

[weak vine]

so stop acting like it

[midnight phoenix]

im quite familiar with minion builds and how much the 20th gem slot is worth

which is definitely not nothing for a minion builds

i agree that tehy are gem slot constrained

however im also aware that ur chest slot is very important and much more so than a gem slot

[tender tusk]

doesn't infernal cry give you a skill now?

[midnight phoenix]

even two if thats how u want to build ur ee setup

[vapid gazelle]

The chest has a major issue being that its pure ES but the ES value is dogshit 😄

[midnight phoenix]

it certainly isnt good for you personally in a defensive sense

[weak vine]

this guy so good at poe he got unreleased content mastered, case closed boys dont erven think about mentioning this chest

[midnight phoenix]

welcome to poe discord we hope u enjoy ur stay

[weak vine]

🤣

[midnight phoenix]

now are we gonna have a actual conversation where u suggest proper build options here that make up for the big investment that this chest would be?

im throwing out a bunch of ideas as we talk here

[weak vine]

ive been here long enough to know its easy to prove people like you wrong with some research instead of just reading a tooltip and deciding its ass

[midnight phoenix]

and mostly shooting them down as we go because theyre easy to see its not great

so yeah if u have better ideas im all ears

if ur only on the insult train im probably done tho

[tender tusk]

do you have an example where it's better than EE?

[midnight phoenix]

it doesnt just have to be better than EE tho

it needs to be better than EE plus an extra spectre

or whatever alternative ur chest would have

[weak vine]

thats what im trying to look into but i guess ill do it alone usually chat likes to investigate too but i guess this morning is different

[midnight phoenix]

like a standard spectre chest is what like

90 life and +1 spectre

plus whatever shit multimods u put on it

[vapid gazelle]

chat investigated this for like 3 hrs straight yesterday xD

[midnight phoenix]

so yeah its pretty hard to compete if ur chest gives u nothing except stuff u get for 2 skill points and a gem slot

[weak vine]

3 hours is enough to close the book on an item that came out 11 hours ago? we still find new interactions on legacy content

come on

[midnight phoenix]

i think u need specific ideas to advance the conversation tho

its not really reasonable to be like hey this chest is good with rvas

when on its own thats clearly not enough

and then get mad when we say so

so if u have a direction u want to take this, we are all ears

[weak vine]

i sitting here in pob as i type

[midnight phoenix]

cool

im off to bed but if u find something im happy to talk about it

gl

[vapid gazelle]

I can just see it as a meme item on pathfinder or something with Null's incl. where u just summon a boatload of different minions and then all get insta gibbed with 51% chaos res and explode for fire dmg that is mediocre

[midnight phoenix]

well minion instability is based on max life

which is 0 if its all converted to es

so uh

[vapid gazelle]

yeh hence mediocre :p

[midnight phoenix]

literal zdps build?

[vapid gazelle]

It's a meme !

All the explosions !

[midnight phoenix]

if u want a lot of visuals on ur screen i think its probably easier to just buy a whispering ice

and hold down the button till ur instance crashes

but yknow

i guess if u wanna do it with different visuals its a option

[vapid gazelle]

See thats the spirit !

[versed dock]

Maybe Harvest introduces some monster that use his ES to do something interesting

Which can then be turned into a Spectre

[midnight phoenix]

yer i spent a little bit of time looking for ways to scale ES

which i think is the most interesting part of the item

the problem is without a way to take advantage of the ES

[versed dock]

Yeah I mean I agree in the current state, the ignore elemental res is pretty useless

[midnight phoenix]

and as far as I can tell there arent any good ones

[versed dock]

or well, there are better ways

[midnight phoenix]

its just a straight up drawback

[sour mountain]

inb4 necromantic aegis

[midnight phoenix]

because life is better than ES on any minion that has leech

i looked at shields i couldnt find anything that works with the ES your minions get from the chest

so if ur walking in with the assumption that the ES is a straight drawback u may as well bin the item from the get go

the only item i could find that actually scales the ES is mask of the tribunal and thats not very powerful

cos u cant wear it with baron since u dont have two heads

[gusty sparrow]

For the new minion chest Fleshcrafter, any way to add that mod into pob today?

[midnight phoenix]

u could give ur minions like 30% increased ES total if u put it on ur animate guardian in a baron build but again not very exciting

which mod

[gusty sparrow]

minions ignore ele res

[midnight phoenix]

the life to ES mod or the res mod

put it on a shield and spec necro aegis

that should do it

[gusty sparrow]

🧠

[wet plaza]

its way too easy to reduce res that ignore is worth it

[midnight phoenix]

or just set enemy resistance to 0 in confic

[violet nymph]

how many more builds should i write i wonder

[normal kraken]

there's the minion double dmg on full life notable

for minions that can't consistently take advantage of that one the chest gives 100% uptime

same with dmg on full life supp

[midnight phoenix]

I dont think u can count on that given that chaos damage still goes through it

[vapid gazelle]

it doesn't

it specifically states chaos dmg does not bypass minions ES

[midnight phoenix]

So it does

Then ye thats decent

Dofl im not sure makes the top 6 gems, minion supports are very good and u may well not have 100% uptime of it

[vapid gazelle]

u can defo use dmg on full life and the double dmg node, but I'm still afraid of the poor sods just straight up dying cuz they have ES and not life

[midnight phoenix]

The notable is a decent idea tho

[normal kraken]

Do temp minion builds really care about minion survivability?

[midnight phoenix]

No they dont

[sour mountain]

minion instability does not

other temp-minion does to a degree

[midnight phoenix]

But u can use dofl and suchlike on those anyway

[sour mountain]

but not quite so much

[vapid gazelle]

u can't play minion instability with the chest

[midnight phoenix]

Cos they are generally full life or dead

[sour mountain]

yeah im speaking generally

turning life into ES... i'm not sure what that does, other than activate Vaal Discipline for them

[vapid gazelle]

and disabling their leech and regen

[midnight phoenix]

If u have absolutely zero sustain on them its technically a buff

[sour mountain]

does it mean that they'll decay super slowly while using infernal legion?

[vapid gazelle]

they'll decay faster

[midnight phoenix]

But theres no minion builds that dont have sustain cos u get it for free

[sour mountain]

iirc infernal is % of life as damage

but since they have a lower life pool and an ES pool they'll technically take less damage

[vapid gazelle]

o

right

but their ES recharge 'll never proc so there's also that

[sour mountain]

buuuut... if you're playing infernal legion you either want them to die, or you build into the tools you need to keep them alive

[midnight phoenix]

Yer

The payoff for infernal legion is also like

Not good

U put all this effort in and then ur like

[sour mountain]

i actually like infernal legion on herald of purity

[vapid gazelle]

I have inferna legion on SRS that actually stay alive in del right now, and you just can't scale that dmg properly

[midnight phoenix]

Hey shouldnt this dot be killing things

[wet plaza]

ah yes this 100k non stacking dot is fine

https://tenor.com/view/this-is-fine-gif-5263684

[midnight phoenix]

Appropriate

[sour mountain]

it's a very passive damage source on the right minion

FFrenzy Sentinels of Purity will run around, burn people to death while they whack them, reset their own duration and HP while they do that

[vapid gazelle]

won't u be better of just putting some kinda melee splash support on them?

[sour mountain]

they have implicit splash i'm pretty sure

[midnight phoenix]

Theyre like zombies they have a slam

[sour mountain]

yes, that's what it is

it used to be attached to a guardian passive

but now it's baseline

[midnight phoenix]

But yeah if ur gonna use valuable reservation on heralds id probably use something else

[sour mountain]

the other minion i think it might work on is Carrion Golem

[midnight phoenix]

Its not good on this minion i tried in 3.8

[sour mountain]

as carrion golem's "gain more damage per non-golem minion nearby" effect will affect infernal legion

[vapid gazelle]

what is the "near" for carrion golems?

[midnight phoenix]

Unless u mean like a pure golem build which i did not try

I just had it in there as a support on a 4L

[sour mountain]

i'd be thinking carrion golem, skeleton, hop

[midnight phoenix]

Golem didnt die but it wasnt useful

[sour mountain]

i like it because carrion golem has some great effects for scaling with AoE

[midnight phoenix]

Ur clearing minions do the actual clearing

[sour mountain]

which i think scales the size of infernal legion?

[devout osprey]

wouldnt u want a "normal" golem for the elementalist buff?

[vapid gazelle]

you can play necro golems ;D

[midnight phoenix]

Well the problem with this in mixed minions is the ai

[sour mountain]

as in to make the golem immune to its own burn damage?

[midnight phoenix]

Ur temp minions are all aggressive

[sour mountain]

while it's a fun idea on paper, in practice it is not good

[midnight phoenix]

And ur golem u cant make aggressive cos it dies

[sour mountain]

because it's trivially easy to get that sustain back anyway

[midnight phoenix]

Even with supports

So it just sorta wanders around burning down very slowly

And occasionally whacking something to leech

[sour mountain]

i don't mind it with Deathmark

[midnight phoenix]

And making sad honking noises

[sour mountain]

but deathmark's super unwieldy

[midnight phoenix]

Well if ur using deathmark and infernal legion in a 4l golem

Its gonna die for sure

[sour mountain]

i gotta work out if infernal legion actually does scale with minion aoe modifiers

also whether it works with that shitty SRS helm that refreshes their duration when they kill a...
is it burning or ignited enemy

[midnight phoenix]

I know it scales with inc aoe gem fwiw

[sour mountain]

yeah, i actually really like the carrion golem's AOE attack

as scaling its aoe seems to increase both radius and width/

[wet plaza]

at that point just use a good link on carrions and you'll get more out of it than infernal

[sour mountain]

what are its attacks... i know it has triple swipe and earthquake

[vapid gazelle]

tbf as long as ur not trying to do T16+ content u'll be fine using infernal, but there's almost always a better option 😄

[sour mountain]

okay but what if i want to use fireball totems

how will i apply elemental exposure unless i use an elemental army infernal legion carrion golem

[vapid gazelle]

why bother?

just use EE

[wet plaza]

wave of conviction, ice golem in malachi ring

lots of options

[sour mountain]

ice golem in malachai ring
😠

wait are we thinking of the same malachai ring

i love that ring when you put herald of thunder in it as cold to fire

[thorny vortex]

hmm i wonder ... stacking over 50% chaos res on Dancing Duo what actually would happen if the sword died ... probably nothing but lel

[sour mountain]

as i understand, the dancing duo have an absurd amount of life regen

[thorny vortex]

but if you convert over 100% of its hp...

[sour mountain]

they become practically indestructible

...lmao

yeah then you'll just throw your weapon for no reason

good idea

[copper kernel]

or instantly die

[thorny vortex]

probably underwhelming like instantly returning xD it just occured to me is all

[sour mountain]

i gotta work out how many links you usually end up with

[weak vine]

@midnight phoenix have you explored duo 6L builds with the chest saving ee proc methods? if i can do the same damage type as my minions why not throw this chest into an arc witch (i use lightning rvas) with a trigger and + to lightning spell staff and just flame dash around the map pack blasting just a quick elementary idea

im pretty sure there is a bertter\ implementation of the idea

[midnight phoenix]

I would not expect this to outperform a regular rva spectre build with minion weapons

[weak vine]

this was a spit ball

[midnight phoenix]

Losing two convokings is a lot of damage

And arc itself wont do much with only spiritual aid and a couple of staff levels for damage

Rvas already clear fine and that arc setup wont add more than a few hundred k dps

In any case even in this weird niche u could do the same thing with a non lightning skill and EE

And u would get 1 extra spectre from the chest

Its not like theres any difference in the spell u use if the only scaling u have for it is spiritual aid

[weak vine]

im not really specifically talking about this setup, justt the idea of it opens up other 6l possibilities arc was just the easiest to mention

[midnight phoenix]

Sure, but why would u care about opening up other 6l possibilities

They would all behave pretty similarly because the only scaling u have is spiritual aid

[weak vine]

spiritual aid doesnt restrict me from other ways of scaling idk what you mean

[midnight phoenix]

U wouldnt take those tho

Cos u need to scale ur spectre

Any tree or gear budget that isnt scaling ur spectres has a direct opportunity cost

[weak vine]

i think youyre intentionally exaggerating the problem of scaling spectres, they ramp with little investment

[midnight phoenix]

No

Its not about ramping

Theres no cutoff at which spectres stop scaling or whatever

[violet nymph]

there is a cutoff for dps that anyone needs lol

[midnight phoenix]

The question u need to answer is why is ur solution better than just scaling ur spectre

Cos u gain zero survivability from ur suggestion, and the dps is going to be worse

Clear will also suffer to some extent since u are using this chest so u have fewer spectres

Like how hard is it gonna be to hit lv25 spectres if u have no +minion weapons and no +gems in the chedt

Pretty rough hey

[weak vine]

specters scale so easy we're running around with nearly 9k ehp how do you not think theres room there

lol

[midnight phoenix]

And then thats not even counting that an alternative chest gives u 1 spectre

Ye but why

Like if i have a build that has 9k ehp and 5 million dmg

[weak vine]

level 25 spectres just requires a helmet

[midnight phoenix]

And u have a build that has 9k ehp and 3 million dmg

[weak vine]

wym

[midnight phoenix]

Both builds scale spectres easily but one is "better" for a given value of optimization

[weak vine]

we dont actually know that i mean you havent done ay testing neither have i

[midnight phoenix]

Im saying that for the same investment, scaling ur minions will always result in better dmg than half scaling minions and half scaling some spell

[weak vine]

so we only know one build

[midnight phoenix]

This is something that u can infer from making many builds

Splitting ur build budget between two skills that dont have synergy always costs u dps

[violet nymph]

bad idea? yes. do i care? no lmao

[midnight phoenix]

Because of the math behind multipliers

[weak vine]

im 100% sureyouve "inferred" and been wrong, thats how we advance the game

[midnight phoenix]

This is pretty straightforward and is advice we give in the new player channels constantly because its an error many new players make

[violet nymph]

which non-minion spell are you trying to scale

[weak vine]

why would you do it if they dont have synergy? that would obviosly be dumb

[midnight phoenix]

He is suggesting spectres with something like arc

As a example

[violet nymph]

is he using that to proc EE or something

[weak vine]

no im not reqally as i said befotr

[midnight phoenix]

No

Just arc for arcs sake

[violet nymph]

well that's uh

[weak vine]

no

[midnight phoenix]

Replace with other spell as u see fit

[weak vine]

what a nice strawman

[midnight phoenix]

Thats literally what u pinged me with tho

[violet nymph]

okay what are you doing then topflat

[weak vine]

i even clarified that arc was not the real point

[wet plaza]

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-gus-psych-dulehill-popcornday-gif-4655898

[weak vine]

im not really specifically talking about this setup, justt the idea of it opens up other 6l possibilities arc was just the easiest to mention
@weak vine

[midnight phoenix]

Sure, insert other random spell here

[violet nymph]

spiritual aid is not enough to scale anything on its own

[midnight phoenix]

That doesnt have particular synergy with spectres

[weak vine]

i never said that, he implied thats the only way

lol

[midnight phoenix]

What other spell would u use

If u want to give a better example then do so

[violet nymph]

spiritual aid and spiritual command were basically made so dominating blow builds wouldn't feel bad about hitting things

[wet plaza]

[spoiler they still do if you want to go hybrid]

[midnight phoenix]

Like if u use lightning rvas and u say u cant use ee that implies a lightnig spell

[weak vine]

idk why youre acting like such a big brain builder you said how will i get level 25 spectres why would i not use a bone helm for something like that, i feel like youre approaching this in bad faith and im just tryna chat about possibilities but because of how meta gaming has gotten its like "NO BRO YOU OLY HAVE 4.5MIL INSTEAD OF 5" you literally said 3 mil instead of 5 both are walking through the map theyre clearing in the same amount of time

[midnight phoenix]

So which lightning spell has better synergy

[violet nymph]

i'm still mildly confused what you're getting at lol

[weak vine]

again, im not specifically talking about lightning rva + arc so wym

i clarified that

[violet nymph]

we're saying that building hybrid spell/minions is inefficient

and always has been

the only hybrid setup that really works is like... spellslinger if you really try to build hybrid

and i guess rallying cry pretty soon

[weak vine]

i think that maybe you guys havent seen my name around so you think im new to this shit, and thats why youre approaching this in bad faith, just take for a second that i understand the same basic things you do (like scaling) and im exploring NEW possibilities with the NEW content that dropped 11 hours ago so for a second put down your min max boner and lets have fun witht he new content jesus christ

[iron violet]

man i love the week before league release

[violet nymph]

i mean, sure have fun lol

[midnight phoenix]

If u dont wanna minmax u really have to say so at the start

[normal kraken]

tbf they have been consistently adding stuff that promotes caster/minions hybrids

[midnight phoenix]

Cos theres not much to discuss in that case

[weak vine]

i forgot everytime we talk about or play poe we gotta be min maxing

[midnight phoenix]

Obviously if u wanna just chill and have fun thats cool

[normal kraken]

at some point there will be a decent build that takes advantage of all those

[midnight phoenix]

But like

We cant tell u what u should find fun

So it doesnt rly lead to much

[weak vine]

obviously theres a level in between where a build is still viable

buddy

so

wym?

[violet nymph]

3m dps is generally viable for all content besides deep delve and simulacrum

[midnight phoenix]

Viable is not really a useful word around here, everything is viable if u pour money into it

[weak vine]

okay pour your money into SRS

have fun

[violet nymph]

i mean you could

SRS isn't exactly horrible

clear is iffy though

[midnight phoenix]

I cleared all content with srs in 3.8, uber elder included

[haughty harbor]

I start with SRS most leagues

[midnight phoenix]

Its not the best build particularly

[haughty harbor]

Gets me somewhere in SSF

[midnight phoenix]

Its not awful tho

[haughty harbor]

Works, yeah

But not something you should do to speed run content

[violet nymph]

the change that makes it so SRS goes to your cursor unless it finds and enemy first was pretty huge

[midnight phoenix]

Its good in ssf just because it requires no investment

I wouldnt play it in trade league

[haughty harbor]

Yup, super easy to get a linked staff too

[midnight phoenix]

Spectres clear better and skeles do better single target

[haughty harbor]

Or just tabula and sorted

[weak vine]

i just think that saying "well anything is viable" was a cop out, i mean obviously youre not getting much out of a bear trap build or smth

[midnight phoenix]

Bear trap is actually a legit bosser

[weak vine]

and if my friend is playing srs in t16s we're not going together

[midnight phoenix]

Just dont try to kill packs with it

U will be sad

[devout osprey]

conversion trap. not viable for anything

[iron violet]

Suction trap builds only plz

[midnight phoenix]

Conversion trap i will allow is actually not viable

Short of that tho

[iron violet]

https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Siphoning_Trap

[midnight phoenix]

Pretty much everything is viable just inefficient and/or expensive

[iron violet]

make succ trap build

[weak vine]

of the 5 peopole on ninja with SRS, the only person to have it as their man 6 link was some aura bot https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds/char/GhostPlayerSV/EndersGameCheater?i=1&search=skill%3DSummon-Raging-Spirit

[iron violet]

o poe ninja

[violet nymph]

that's because delirium is wack lol

[iron violet]

end all be all

[midnight phoenix]

Siphoning trap does like 500k dps or something in a cdot build

[violet nymph]

this is all you need to know about delirium

[midnight phoenix]

Its really bad but viable

If u pour money into it

[midnight phoenix]

At least its mechanically completely mobile

[violet nymph]

and this

[iron violet]

lol https://poe.ninja/challengessf/builds?skill=Summon-Raging-Spirit

[midnight phoenix]

Its very hard to use ninja right now as a measure

[violet nymph]

herald builds completely dominate the ladder this league

[midnight phoenix]

In trade league at least

[violet nymph]

next league should be better

[iron violet]

well maybe

until the next broken thing is found

[midnight phoenix]

SSF and hardcore are more representative but both arent great at extrapolating to trade

[wet plaza]

So you're doing artillery ballista aren't you @midnight phoenix

:^)

[midnight phoenix]

Hey it did get buffed last league

[iron violet]

do arcanist brand build

using glacial cascade

[midnight phoenix]

Ive been wanting to try out the x mark helm enchant for this skill

I havent had the chance yet

[violet nymph]

is this enough to deal with uber izaro consistently lol

[midnight phoenix]

Yes

Easily

[wet plaza]

Same but then I pobd it out and decided shrapnel is the last ballista I'll do before a buff

[violet nymph]

good good

cause it's a lab farmer specifically

[torpid sonnet]

Thing is, if you are doing a lab farmer you will want to be doing the new labs

which may be more difficult

[midnight phoenix]

U normally want more dps to make the fight quick

If ur going to be doing a lot of labs

[violet nymph]

🤷

[midnight phoenix]

But yes u can certainly do the fight on less than 500k

[violet nymph]

i'm really lucky with enchants lol

[midnight phoenix]

Its also less rippy the more dps u have

So just bear this in mind

[violet nymph]

had a redeemer i86 hubris base like a league ago, first try got ice nova

got cyclone attack speed on a devoto a league before that

[midnight phoenix]

Anyway i shoulda slept 2 hours ago

[violet nymph]

the build has mega tank for izaro

[midnight phoenix]

Gl with ur lab farmer

[violet nymph]

i won't be playing that build til later anyway

puriflame miner should get me through everything, then i'll be using some meager currency to make my deadeye iceshot mf to farm t7 burials until i have actual currency to turn the puriflame miner into a lowlife version and multiply the dps by like 10x lol

then i'll probably make the lab farmer

it'll take a bunch of currency to get all this shit and still have max res

and decent ES

[devout osprey]

good starter gear

[violet nymph]

that's not starter

that's the lowlife version i'm speccing into after playing mf

this is the starter

yes, let's start with a billion exalt bow lol

at least they're easy to make

just take a bunch of currency

[wild arch]

Does anyone know if agnostic's mana to health recovery count as regen?

[wary stratus]

it would say regen somewhere in the description if it was

[wild arch]

That's the thing I'm suspicious about

[violet nymph]

anyone cracked planting already?

[wild arch]

The keystone just says 'recover'

[wary stratus]

if you're really curious about it you can just test it in PvP with an occultist

Void Beacon will completely kill it if it is regen, but I'm quite confident it isn't

and just a heads up, "recover" is an already-used term in PoE

look at a life flask

[wild arch]

Thinking about some scuffed meme build that uses all the legion keystones they're throwing on the tree

Gladiator/trickster Scion seems to be the best bet for squeezing the most out of them all

[compact junco]

hiero + necro scion might be good too

[wild arch]

My idea was to go glad for better glancing blows and trickster for more recovery from agnostic and eternal youth

[compact junco]

yea necro achieves same thing but with some extra damage + life on block

[wild arch]

Oh

On semi related note, does blood offering work on you?

[sterile shuttle]

@violet nymph fwiw you can do ulab with 300k dps, even a 1L BV will do fine in lab with the right build, you don't need super tank to beat izzy. Just the right defence, it's more about speed than anything else for lab running, if you don't have 600% MS then it's gonna be boring and slow

[violet nymph]

lol

i'd rather be comfortable than super fast

how do you even get 600% ms

[sterile shuttle]

play PF because PF is lab

[violet nymph]

do you just try to get max flask effect lol

[sterile shuttle]

no, you just stack ms boosts

could even go for the 1k ms if you like but thats expensive

[violet nymph]

600% sounds pretty expensive lol

what ascendancy notables do you get besides obviously nature's boon and master surgeon

[sterile shuttle]

depends on buiild

natures adren and vet bowyer for ele based

[midnight phoenix]

pf miner has been the lab running meta for a while

[violet nymph]

what

[sterile shuttle]

pf miner is cheese ssh

[violet nymph]

purifying flame miner?

i'm literally starting with that this league

i had no idea it was a lab run build

why is that

[sterile shuttle]

pathfinder mine lab runners

[midnight phoenix]

no lol pathfinder miner

[violet nymph]

oh

[sterile shuttle]

1k life, max ms insta phase izaro

[midnight phoenix]

i imagine u could make a pf pf miner but like

[violet nymph]

how do you survive traps

[midnight phoenix]

thats certainly not meta

[sterile shuttle]

its hp% not flat

[midnight phoenix]

traps do % life dmg

[sterile shuttle]

and at huge ms traps do nothing

[violet nymph]

fair enough

[midnight phoenix]

u can have 50 hp and its functionally the same as 50000 for trasps

well u still dont wanna eat traps cos they can slow u down

lab running and eating a spike trap is like

u wanna alt f4 but u cant cos u lose the instance

[violet nymph]

what are the super important items for a lab runner

qotf i'm guessing

[sterile shuttle]

qotf, devotos, atziri step or seven league

dual gryphons too

[midnight phoenix]

the tldr is if it has move speed ur using it

[violet nymph]

do you even try to cap res at all lol

[sterile shuttle]

obviously otherwise you die

[violet nymph]

i'm guessing writhing jar is required

[midnight phoenix]

u need capped fire res

[sterile shuttle]

no

noone uses jar

[midnight phoenix]

cos otherwise u cant run on fire floors

[violet nymph]

i ask only because of gryphon's killed recently

[sterile shuttle]

thats why bv is win, use a few times run lab proc

[midnight phoenix]

lightning and cold are optional but everyone caps them because it doesnt really cost much build budget

i guess the other thing u might not think of is that smoke mine is mandatory

[violet nymph]

i'm not touching smoke mine lol

too clunky

[midnight phoenix]

doesnt matter gives move speed

[sterile shuttle]

nah, just memory muscle

[violet nymph]

ughhhh

[sterile shuttle]

smoke mine phase run flask pop

[midnight phoenix]

not smoke mining is like not running a quicksilver

[violet nymph]

i'll have to allocate both of my mouse thumb buttons to smoke mine

[sterile shuttle]

you need all the ms you can get otherwise you may as well run maps

[violet nymph]

still no idea what i actually want to use for damage lol

it'll be elemental though

[sterile shuttle]

blade flurry, bv are both good options

[violet nymph]

oh

[sterile shuttle]

pure phys bv if you like to meme

[violet nymph]

gross

purephys bv is bad

[sterile shuttle]

sure is

[violet nymph]

1m dps is baby

[sterile shuttle]

for lab running thats x3 what i need

[violet nymph]

i'm gonna go cold bv

since the 40% cold conversion nodes are right there

and HoI feels good

[sterile shuttle]

lab
HoI

[violet nymph]

how much evasion do you need for qotf to be used to its full potential

[sterile shuttle]

30k or somet cant remember from top of my head

[violet nymph]

i'm at 379% ms right now

[cobalt falcon]

T3 craft also contain thoose craft, rng will love show this craft

[cunning blade]

o god yes finally some chaos dmg clusters

[shy belfry]

can you leap slam unarmed now?

[violet nymph]

no

too much animation work

[shy belfry]

lol

[rocky nebula]

Nah all you gotta do is slam the ground with your fists

If you can spin unarmed. You should jump and slam unarmed

[shy belfry]

not to mention they changed the other weapon skills to unarmed inclusive.

[maiden basin]

are pink seeds t1 or t2

[native sonnet]

colors are the types, doesnt affect the tier, u could have t1/2/3 of each colors

[violet nymph]

then why is everyone claiming those seeds just revealed are t3

[minor oyster]

the blue nodes around the fossil looking thing on the left

thats what tells you its a t3 seed

[arctic briar]

Time to spam my Pier Maps ❤️

[minor oyster]

why pier?

[abstract swallow]

Is this the right place to ask how some of the new skills in harvest might interact with each other? Or is there a better place like a question/answer thread on forums/reddit?

I’m trying to see if I use a slam skill with generals warcry, and I’m using the ancestral slam support, if I warcry and summon 3 of the ghostly warriors, will they all use an empowered slam or just one of them? Or maybe none of them...

I don’t mind waiting to find out, just trying to plan my build ahead of time

[rocky nebula]

It should be the right place

[violet nymph]

someone should make a card where the item is a crusader's crusader plate of the crusader

[wooden flower]

👌

[cunning blaze]

I’m trying to see if I use a slam skill with generals warcry, and I’m using the ancestral slam support, if I warcry and summon 3 of the ghostly warriors, will they all use an empowered slam or just one of them? Or maybe none of them...
@abstract swallow I assume you mean "fist of war" support by ancestral slam? If so, I guess that the ghosts summoned by generals warcry won't proc the supercharged slam, since the Ancestral Ghost thingy is an entirely different entity than the rest. Its not part of "your" attack, it attacks in unison with you, so the ghosts from general wont get any benefit

maybe fist of war will also feature a generic %10 melee damage or some such bonus, only that would increase the effectiveness of general's cry

[wild arch]

Woah, second wind supports warcries

Popping 2 generals at once sounds insane

[abstract swallow]

@cunning blaze yeah most likely will not empower the ghost slams, I agree

[limpid wigeon]

that is not how fist of war works

people are getting confused and seem to think fist of war is like mirage archer and does its own attack

it does not

it is a visual effect to represent that your slam is stronger

you should think of it as a ruthless attack that has a cooldown rather than a 3 hit timer

I don't see why the generals wouldn't work with fist of war

@abstract swallow

it is possible that they will make an exception to not allow it to work, or perhaps they will spawn with it on cooldown and in practice wont stick around long enough to benefit

Chris said they work like saviour minions and I would be shocked if they didn't get fist of war

[wild arch]

If you use trypanon then they'd definitely stick around long enough for the cooldown to finish :^)

[wild arch]

I wonder if they're gonna change debeon's dirge in any way

Seems like an insanely strong weapon for slams & warcries

[rose mulch]

can be good, hard to say pre patch notes

most ppl will play slam builds as pure phys although ice crash with debeons can be quite nice

[wild arch]

You can pull off some ele buzzsaw nonsense with perforate

[barren crescent]

FoW is cd based "ruthless attack"

[abstract swallow]

Ice crash debeons dirge builds incoming

[wild arch]

Throw the alt ailment keystone in there for ez crit

[gaunt loom]

ice crash and sunder looks amazing

[wild arch]

Convert sunder to cold and you got yourself a melee glacial cascade

[gaunt loom]

do BV work on arcanist brand?

[wild arch]

No

The brands will cast BV on you

[gaunt loom]

oh is it confirmed?

[wild arch]

Yup

[errant warren]

thats how triggered spells work

[wild arch]

Nothing to do with triggers

That's how brands work

[errant warren]

All brands do is remove the targetting input portion from all other trigger mechanisms

it CWC works exactly the same way

[wild arch]

Yes but that's not the reason why brands will cast BV on you

[errant warren]

What in the world are you talking about

[errant warren]

All triggers activate your spell on your behalf.

Activating BV adds a buff to you.

BV buff applies the damage.

[wild arch]

...

The reason why arcanist brands apply BV to you is because brands still count as you casting from a different point

[errant warren]

all triggers are you, its not something special to BV

err/brand

its exactly the same as CwC except you dont have to point with a mouse and there can be more than 1 locations

[wild arch]

Traps and mines trigger their effects

[errant warren]

They do

[wild arch]

But when you use BV it still applies to them

Even tho they die immediately

[native sonnet]

traps and mines are not triggers

[wild arch]

Triggering has nothing to do with this specific case

[native sonnet]

the wording on the gem is "use"

[errant warren]

yeah its an entity that uses it

like totems

[native sonnet]

traps and mines are also separate "entities" like totems (hence they take the reflect instead of u)

[wild arch]

Shit I meant to talk about entities not triggering

Hard to focus after work

[native sonnet]

BV orbit around the entity that cast/trigger it, i.e on totem or u, doesnt work with traps/mines since the entity is destroyed upon using the skill

[errant warren]

A spell-support summoner would be a cool skill though

10 little dudes running around using the spell of your choice with the links of your choice

[wild arch]

General's cry is the closest thing to that

Depending on how successful it is they might try that

[errant warren]

GC is like the halfway between that and mines, since they use the skill once

i concur

[wild arch]

Who knows, there might be a helmet enchant that lets them attack more than once

What would warcry buff effect give to general 🤔

[lean lark]

Second wind could give them a second attack charge?

[wild arch]

It gives you a second use of the skill

[lean lark]

Double dip!

[wild arch]

Or at least should

[lean lark]

Seems like it would be op, but also seems like it might work by the way they worded it

Maybe, hard to tell

[wild arch]

It already works with other warcries

[lean lark]

Yeah I know that

[wild arch]

There just isn't a reason to use it with any of them

[lean lark]

Was still thinking about giving the boyz a second attack before vanishing

Nah, it won't work. I've got to stop dreaming. That's one support that would more than double it's effectiveness

[wild arch]

I mean

It's nowhere near as broken as herald stacking

[sour mountain]

...wait

arcanist brands can cast bv for you

thats amazing tbh

[wild arch]

Until you remember that it has less aoe

And damage

[lean lark]

Might be decent for stacking bv and self casting blade blast

But probably not better than alternatives

[errant warren]

why trigger BV at all, just selfcast with unleash

[wild arch]

^

That keystone is perfect

[velvet palm]

perfectly useless :^)

[wild arch]

Perfect for a slow playstyle

[velvet palm]

it's not like you can't get rage really easily

[wild arch]

Sure, you can get it easily if you zoom around

But if you don't have a seizure inducing build then you'll constantly keep losing rage between packs

[wild arch]

Slam kaom's primacy with it sounds interesting

[hasty perch]

it's even stronger on bosses

being at 50 rage everytime you have the opportunity to drop some dps is nice

[wild arch]

^

Regular rage is for ramping up to a big bonus

Chainbreaker is for short bursts of big damage

[wanton rivet]

do totems inherit modifiers from weapons like the "your shocks" from voltaxic rift?

[wild arch]

I think so 🤔

As long as it's on a weapon I think it does

[lucid stone]

Chainbreaker?

[wild arch]

Hm?

[spark wharf]

chainbreaker will be good for high dmg initial hit or burst

[errant warren]

or optimizing around berserk uptime

[storm crown]

Thought its pretty cool making mana regen into rage regen tho

[harsh bone]

Do we know if there will be a 6L recipe? Or does anyone think that we might get one through the mechanic?

[copper kernel]

very likely

didnt we see it in the trailer too

or was it just sockets

[harsh bone]

I think it was sockets

Having a 6L recipe would make this league a 100 times better

[copper kernel]

thats pretty optimistic

it would be rare as shit

[native sonnet]

idk about 6l recipe, but i fully expect "create an itemised prophecy" that can drop fated connection

i dont see any reason for them to move away from the loot formula from previous leagues

[copper kernel]

they will

[native sonnet]

"create/craft a valuable gem", "create/craft a breachstone", etc

[harsh bone]

It fits the theme if they're making it all about crafting. 6Ling is very painful

[barren crescent]

12 pool

But yeah that keystone looks interesting for slams, dont think there are that many skills that can use it for clearing consistently on max rage

[sour mountain]

chainbreaker might actually maintain a constant damage buff if you're playing into the Fist of War slow hit meme, when you're fighting a boss

[quasi tiger]

chainbreaker seems good if you can use it without hitting things yourself

[sour mountain]

i think the karui jewels can roll up good rage modifiers too

but im not sure?

[velvet palm]

unless they remove rage generation from cluster jewels, the keystone is completely obsolete

[slender temple]

well

we haven't seen what the cluster nerf is yet

we will know in 4-5 days though

[bronze cave]

3 days 15 hours to patch notes roughly

[sour mountain]

they're not removing rage generation from the cluster jewel, and they are adding new rage oriented wheel i think

[velvet palm]

finally, I can be the angriest boi that I want to be

[wild arch]

Oh right, one of the rigwald weapons gives +25 max rage

[icy prawn]

are there any really good high end crafts revealed so far?

[wild arch]

Nothing much apart from the target exalts and stuff

[violet nymph]

targeted annuls are sick

that system combined with the beastcrafting system is gonna make specific crafts way easier

+6 bow will be very easy to make this league

[icy prawn]

doesnt get me hyped tho, sounds neat but until know I dont see what Chris meant with they want to test how far crafting can go when almost everything is just some qol stuff

[wild arch]

Trading a map for 3 master missions sounds pretty good to me

Always wanted more temples

[hushed wraith]

it seems broken for alva missions tho

[hasty perch]

for everything

like there's no master for which a map is more than 3 missions in value

[icy prawn]

yea thats good QoL but nothing "new" in terms of build enhancing, groundbreaking etc. u just get more of the same and can rather do ur content thats fits u the most, still doesnt convince me

[hushed wraith]

oh mb dunno why I was talking about alva when I meant zana

[torpid sonnet]

the master mission things are a T3 reward iirc

[hasty perch]

they better be rare

[hushed wraith]

indeed besides the level of the mission (white/yellow/red) will probably depend on the map's colour

[hasty perch]

yeah that's broken just like master missions

running T11 and using your master mission zana on a T16

balanced

[wild arch]

Don't forget more master missions = higher chances of delirium

[hasty perch]

i'm mainly interested about red zanas

she gives guardian maps so damn often when you roll it on a T16

and it resets her shop for sweet synthesis map chances

[harsh bone]

Is the only way to progress the harvest cycle is to do a map? Like would any other mechanic like delve / temple / etc progress it?

[wild arch]

Looks like maps are the only place with seed caches

[harsh bone]

I feel like they should be on a time set as well incase you do other content. Like have a cycle go on each 10 minutes or so

For what's currently at, it feels punishing and "Missing out" if you do any other content

I guess this is the same case for every other league mechanic before it

[hasty perch]

why

it's always been like this

there's no delirium in delve either

same with temple

[errant warren]

all content has maps at the center. youll always have to go back to maps to get more stuff to progress it

[harsh bone]

Sadly true

[hasty perch]

would be way too messy otherwise

maps can already end up really long when you find a zana inside it and an abyss inside the zana

don't want to add a temple inside the abyss

with a legion inside it

[harsh bone]

It sounds fair to not get seeds from doing other than maps, but for cycles to keep going it sounds fair for them to go by even when you go delving for example

[wild arch]

We waited what, 2 leagues for the RotC rework?

Now the question is if barrage counts all arrows as the first firing point

[errant warren]

Time gating punishes people who dont play as often @harsh bone

[harsh bone]

What if you play as often but do other content. Doesn't feel fair to get punished by that @errant warren

[versed dock]

How do you get punished for doing other content; you just make the decision to do that content which does not advance your cycles

It'd be same if you said you get punished for doing a Research Safehouse with It That Fled, since you can't get a couple delirium splinters through it. Just you make the decision to do other content which does not contain Delirium (or Harvest in this case)

[normal kraken]

more than 2 leagues, I'm pretty sure

[cobalt field]

i think barrage would count all arrows as the 0th firing point

(the player)

i'm looking forward to trying the new reach of the council with shrapnel ballistas

don't need any effort to get +2 projectiles for the return bonus and they shotgun

[marsh wyvern]

thats a weird way to redo that bow. curious how it will actually play in practice

[hasty perch]

probably same as old one after the nerf

nobody playing it because it's a bad bow gated behind an endgame encounter making it unavaible for early mapping

[primal whale]

&yeah barrage support will fire all arrows as 0th firing point cause it changes the attack from multiple projectiles to a sequence

[cobalt field]

Depending on how reliable the arrow return mechanic is, it beats arborix by 10-50% for my shrapnel ballista build

[split ridge]

the bow is a meme it's too inconsistent as to what it does

[cobalt field]

To me the thing it does is just the "projectiles return to you" line with everything else as gravy

The dev saying the return mechanic being different to the current return mechanic you see everywhere else means it might be really good for single target

[wild arch]

It may be different, but it'll be useless against bosses

[tender tusk]

Do we know if the new notable works with aukunas?

[wild arch]

You mean like +2 corpses = +2 zombies?

[tender tusk]

ye

[wild arch]

No idea

[tender tusk]

Since the zombies count as corpses

but i wonder if it uses corpse skill

and not counts as corpse

bc that's really nice if it does work

[gaunt loom]

So about harvest is the loot instanced? i mean can i do it with my friend and get my own loot too

[bronze cave]

loot is never instanced like that

you can go to your friends garden and fight the monsters with him, but only he can use the crafts he gets out of it

the loot that the monsters drop on the floor are probably just treated like regular map loot @gaunt loom

[gaunt loom]

aight thanks!

[normal kraken]

I think we don't know yet how seed drops will be handled while in a party

[slender temple]

well we know how the crafts work

chris told ziggyD taht scammers will be able to do hte trade scamming they can do like wiht syndicate crafting and temple crafting

[bold basalt]

nice scammer protection

if only there was technology to sell crafts sealed into orbs

we could sell "Orbs of X crafting"

[copper kernel]

one would assume that such technology would be used

if they wanted to give you the ability to sell them

which they very clearly dont

considering you cant even store crafts

[bold basalt]

classic price increase through obfuscation

[normal kraken]

some leagues ago they did mention on a faq a way to sell crafts safely wasn't something they had ruled out

may have been a synthesis faq

[slender temple]

that just means new currency orbs

like targeted exalted orbs