it's literally doing what it should do
#1┃mirage-league
wet plaza
hollow prism
does the curse from your skitter bots w/ profane proxy count towards your curse limit?
reason - shocks from skitterbots do not count as if "You've shocked recently"
so if it doesn't consider their shocks to be "from me" does it consider their curse to be "from me"?
secondary reason for the question: totems DO count in both areas (shocking and/or cursing) so it would seem that the consistent thing here would be that the curse doesn't count towards my limit
timid geyser
It probably counts towards the minion's (skitterbot) curse limit. Though not really quite sure about it .
So to answer your question the curse would be considered from the minion not your player. Again not 100% if this is exactly how the item works, but without further explanation from GGG I'd assume this is how it works.
As the item says "Skitterbot's Aura applies socketed curse" Implying it is the minion apply the curse.
hollow prism
@timid geyser thanks! That does slightly boost the value of that unique in my estimation
makes it much more viable if you've got a reliable source of shock or chill and are willing to give up that half
timid geyser
Well, you have to keep in mind how curse limits work. In most cases it hurts the item.
If Players A and B both have a curse limit of two and both run two double blasphemy auras, the enemy will only suffer from the two last applied curses.``` This would apply to both players and minionsNow lets say your minion has a curse limit of 1 (Can't think of any ways to increase curse limit for skitterbots) and you have a curse limit of 2.
Whoever applies a curse last is the curse limit that counts. And curse auras are apply constantly so they take priority.
hollow prism
Should make profane proxy applies the following mod: you and your skitterbots have a curse limit of 2
timid geyser
So even if you have a curse limit of 2 it makes it very hard to apply 2 curses with skitterbot's 1 curse limit constantly overriding your 2 curse limit.
If anything were to make sense I think "skittersbot's have your curse limit"
hollow prism
@timid geyser That works, yeah.
timid geyser
Also another interesting point about it is if indeed the skitterbot's apply the curse and not your player then that would probably mean any sources of "#% increased effect of your curses" wouldn't effect curses in the ring.
storm crown
Maybe we Will get a node with minions can have an additional curse 😏
daring steppe
if there are any shields that increase curse limit then you can
timid geyser
Closest thing is Sentari's Answer
Another thing that would work is something like Doedre's Skin on the player.
wanton rivet
Is vd+desecrate really that good w spellslinger relative to other ways to do the combo like scolds
I can't think of a good way to scale the attack and the spells 🤷♂️
wild arch
You scale both at once by getting % increased spell damage and local attack damage on wands
torn isle
or you can just scale the explosion component itself and use it like DD. But the larger advantage is being able to use all that and bodyswap and other support spells on top.
ignore scaling the attack itself.
wanton rivet
Alright maybe it's not as bad as I think 🤔
patent canyon
it has a lot of potential together with zappy bolt, just need to see numbers
wild arch
Oh boy a shield cluster 
hasty perch
damn
so the hp we saw earlier was a low roll
you can actually get 13hp per small passive
that's huge
storm crown
this small cluster has lvl 67 unlike others that has been shown
so there is more to it that we dont understand fully atm
hasty perch
if you get a max number off passives large cluster with 3% max life and 13hp and increased effect of small passives
you can get two items worth of hp
as flat
they're going to be expensive but that's huge
hasty perch
yeah might be higher , not sure it would be wise to have a higher tier tho
storm crown
probly gonna require currency
hasty perch
having like 4/5% life nodes with 13 flat hp and ability to get like 12 of those
looks busted
storm crown
when currency gets involved they can be stronger
storm crown
currency spend on jewels are currency not spend on gear afterall
hasty perch
yeah, that only applies until you're full gear
i mean you can always get some kind of upgrade but once you hit stuff like needing 20 ex a piece to get slight upgrades
it's pure powercreep
from there onward
hasty perch
what i really like tho is that these jewel seem to always do the same no matter where you socket them
that means you can buy a few REALLY super good clusters for life or ES
then swap them around your characters
like i do with my level 4 empower once i buy one
just use them on every char
violet nymph
how does the line "50% increased equipped shield defenses" work? does that include the res rolls?
wild arch
Aegis aurora's wet dream 
valid isle
so... are these new crazy jewels gonna make scion start good? lol
patent canyon
start, hell no that ascendency is still likely gonna be useless but maybe later into league when you have perfectly crafted jewels but then again can jewels compensate for not having ascendency
dusty umbra
@valid isle scions start is so so for new jewels
dusty umbra
Far away
valid isle
oh, do they only spawn on the outer ring?
dusty umbra
Only on outer jew sockets
rose pasture
it is
zealous monolith
I wonder if that is Al Hezmin in The Stroll div card
timid geyser
@hollow prism good news https://discordapp.com/channels/174993814845521922/294175535590932482/685639840921813068
This means ring the curse is based of player curse limit and would be scaled by player stats
torn isle
note that small clusters are also competing for space with traditionally rolled jewels.
hollow prism
@timid geyser nice!
brazen arch
no flashback event?
wild arch
They never do it in successful leagues
brazen arch
tbh i didnt find it sucessful
wild arch
That's just you then 🤷
red jackal
"successful" isn't subjective
also, chris wilson has stated a few times that flashback events are quite detrimental to the next league
because people will get burned out much faster
sick dome
wonder if blade blast work with coc
wild arch
Don't see why not
calm island
I think it was specifically mentioned that u can use blade blast with coc and cwc
peak terrace
ye obv
it even says so on the teaser
u cna setup bb and bladefall for example using diff trigger skills to setup explosions
peak terrace
Having a setup where Blade Blast, Bladefall or both are triggered by a trigger support or cast by totems lets you create a devastating area of effect combo with ease.
calm island
Is that an official statement coz its rly phrased like one
calm island
Anything not involving currency isnt very interesting to me so I wouldnt know 
peak terrace
WiLLyToday at 09:45
I think it was specifically mentioned that u can use blade blast with coc and cwc
apparently it did interest you
🤷
calm island
I answered a question mate
tall fossil
Is cyclone going to be viable in deliruim?
calm island
Doubt its gonna see nerfs
Impale could get hit a bit
Because necro abuses it so hard too
velvet palm
just nerf necro
calm island
Impale is crzy too
But requires more invest to use well
But yeah nerf necro so I can go back to my miners for bosskilling
zealous monolith
We might actually see random impale nerfs. But only patchnotes will tell.
storm crown
New passive Will turn The balance upside down for sure. Passive tree changes always do. Have no doubt when adding 280 new ones changes willhappend
copper kernel
it certainly wont
balance will barely change
youre just gonna move tree points to jewels
torn isle
I'm just waiting for confirmation or deconfirmation that medium/large cluster jewels can roll implicit health.
thick tiger
instead of asking for nerfs to necro, should be asking for buffs to everything else to bring it up to necro standards
zealous monolith
Ideally, they would raise the investment floor for minion builds and adjust the ceiling at the same time, which would bring them in line.
wet plaza
no they should nerf skeles
probably hit zombies too
and be done
i dont want minions to be in line
we need to have different ways to build with different investment and ceilings
torn isle
That's what the cluster jewels are for to buff everyone else up. Also those two minion notables should totally have been keystones instead.
bitter ledge
Do we actually have any info with which regards the encounters will become more rewarding?
Here's how I'm thinking it will be.
Each regular map has a mirror of Delirium. You start at 0% delirium, which goes up to 100% maximum the further away you get from the origin of the mirror. Each delirium percentage will make the monsters do more damage and have more health (similar to Delve) while increasing the item quantity/rarity/packsize.
I already do see a problem with this. What if you got the mobs down to 10% HP, pulled them to the end of the map with reverse knockback and killed them there?
patent canyon
the amount of time to do that will never be worth it compared to opening another map
bitter ledge
Yeah, but I feel like if these rewards are great enough, we might see Harbour Bridge farming coming back.
Especially if the item quantity/rarity is additive with regular map mods.
Let's imagine that my thought process is correct.
So, if you are in a 60/30 map at 100% delirium, you'll get 160/130.
If you aren't in a map at 100% delirium, you'll get 100/100.
So, you can expect 100% more loot in the first scenario and 62.5% more loot in the second scenario.
This is assuming that I'm correct though.
peak terrace
the way i see it
is honestly just mobs spawn at X delirium
like breach
where rarer and or unique mobs spawn the longer the breach is active
so basically u get to higher delirium and the mobs that spawn there drop more loot
the rewards based on delirium depth are not really based on the depth but on the mobs taht spawn in that depth
@bitter ledge
cunning blade
possible to dump most of the raw spell damage and rely entirely on mana based scaling with new gems for damage?
peak terrace
cant say until we see the actual scaling on the gems
and somebody does the math
however it is almost 100% certain just mana wont outdmg all other possible dmg increases
patent canyon
its gonna be worth doing that to certain extent but there will be hard breakpoint since its easy to go from 1k to 3k mana but cost tons to get from 7 to 10
storm crown
Scaling with currency seem to be Great thing tho
peak terrace
the thing is those mana skills scale of used mana
i havent played mana build but
if u rush to like 10k mana with a gazillion of currency
can u keep it at that point always
can u get that much regen
bitter ledge
Hmmm... aren't dangerous breach mobs more common at longer breaches, because their area gets bigger and bigger, thus allowing more opporunity for them to spawn?
patent canyon
pretty much all mana source regen is % based
its just as easy to maintain 5k pool as 10k
peak terrace
same thing timmy
and its not just opportunityy
if that was the case that means that eventually ud get uniques or rares spawn as the first few mobbs
thats not how it rly works so i assume they gonna do the same for delirium
bitter ledge
I think I got a few rares to spawn as the first few mobs.
bitter ledge
But I might be complete wrong on that.
peak terrace
the more dangerous enemies would pop out of the mist and thus give better rewards
bitter ledge
But wait, wouldn't the regular monsters give more rewards as well?
peak terrace
ye of course
but delirium introduces new mobs and new mobs would pop out from the mist
and i assume the further u go the more loot from the spawned mobs and such
the transformed regular map mobs
would have just hte loottable changed
but unaffected by delirium
bitter ledge
Hmmm... 2 players could do some sort of Harbour bridge farming then. One player spawns in from one end and activates the mirror. The other players spawns from the other end and kills all the mobs. Repeat as neccesary
peak terrace
who knows 🤷
bitter ledge
But then I'm also wondering how Delirium interacts with Breach, Incursion, Betrayal, Abyss, ect.
peak terrace
what we all wanna know
u saw in the trailer that the fortification betrayal boss was stronger
and different kinda well duh it was transformed by delirium lel
fossil shore
I wonder how it scales rewards
Will it just be more quant or will it affect splinter count and things like betrayal intelligence gain
bitter ledge
Yeah. Because if the league mechanic just scales regular drops, then people will just farm any campaign map with 2 exits for massive gains.
Because I'm thinking that the cluster jewels will be pretty valueable
hasty perch
i'm pretty sure GGG understood their past mistakes with metamorph
they put a level range for league mechanic to pop
they're probably doing the same in delirium
to avoid harbour bridge shenanigans
bitter ledge
What about act 10 Ravaged Square? You'll be able to farm that with 5 people
bitter ledge
1 enters from the Torched courts and activates the mirrors. The other people enter from the ossuary, reliquary, control blocks and catedral rooftop
And you just clear the mobs that get in a small radius around the spawn
And then you just reset the area.
I feel like that could easily give the group a few chaos per run
Because you get the group bonus and the bonus from the delirium itself
stone jay
So these nodes we are going to add, we use passive points on them right?
fossil shore
I'd rather eat broken glass than do split farming in act 10 I think
Yes we do
But they're overaverage strong and you don't need to extend your tree to strange spots with them
I can see builds with 2 cluster jewel branches, only local powerful modes and several anointments being a thing
wet plaza
neither blight nor metamorph were super good in acts/early maps
i'd not worry too much about "HAVING" to farm in acts
patent canyon
pretty sure ggg learned from syndicate and delve not to put close to equal map rewards to final act places
patent canyon
thats only for albino feather
wet plaza
nah that was for something else
tidal island had specific beasts but i dont quite remember which ones
fossil shore
Tidal Island was also farm for perandus
Back when there were 4 acts 3x
And bunch of different stuff
silver kettle
I recall Solaris 1 being the big Perandus farm
copper kernel
yea
patent canyon
and act1 was more for tabula since there arent that many unique items early on
even tho perandus prings ptsd to me with those .ppt golden monsters
wet plaza
tidal in part 2 was for the prophs
hasty perch
yeah farmed quite a lot of solaris back then
man tidal farming reminds me of the tons of exile league with 20 rogue exiles per zone
tidal was nuts
wasn't a full league
back when there was fun small leagues between two 3 month ones
patent canyon
or blamt
wet plaza
not a fan of blamt but anything nonstandard
jovial salmon
hello, i am new to POE and just found this server 😄
oops wrong place i meant to put that in general lol sorry
patent canyon
blamt was fun for me since it was rather rare from those mini races and it really was nice to be challenged by the game to extreme
upbeat urchin
kinetic bolt damage, as far as we know rn, is just base physical right?
violet nymph
@upbeat urchin yeah.
timid geyser
well like most attacks it is whatever base damage in on the weapon + added damage from other sources
No conversion on the gem from what I have seen.
upbeat urchin
ty
storm crown
changes teoris again 😄
this one also have a level
3 notables + 2 sockets is probly the max a cluster can have 🤔
buoyant mango
Ok, just because I have started to doubt myself. We get additional passive points to spend in the jewel clusters when we socket them yes?
wild arch
No
lucid stone
They cost points to allocate, not to respec.
wild arch
They cost the same points as any other node on the tree
buoyant mango
hmmmmm, that makes my 50% less excited for them.
lucid stone
You can allocate multiple of the same notable.
buoyant mango
yes, but you still have to get there. And with the random nature of the jewels.... I don't see these getting much use till mid league
wild arch
Just like any other new item introduced
buoyant mango
yes and no. I mean I was hoping these would shake up the starter meta like an earthquake.
lucid stone
Finding a good one early league could put you ahead
Then unsocket it for basically free
wild arch
How exactly are pure rng jewels with hundreds of different possibilities supposed to shake up starter builds
copper kernel
good ones are probably high ilvl
wild arch
If you find a keystone that works with your build early on then go ahead
lucid stone
Do we know how many keystones theyre adding?
wild arch
Nope
lucid stone
We know like...4 now.
copper kernel
buoyant mango
Yes but gambling on that is not worth burrowing out to the edge of the tree right away. If they encouraged you to make use of them with providing say, half of the passive points to spend in them, then it would be worth racing out for a decent to good node. As it stands, a lot of builds don't go near the edge clusters until 70+
wild arch
They don't?
lucid stone
Miners grab the mine nodes by the mana outer socket pretty early.
wild arch
You're more likely to pass them early than pretty much anything else
lucid stone
Templars probably get the staffcrit nodes too
wild arch
Most of them are pretty close to keystones and stuff
lucid stone
And any build taking acrobatics
buoyant mango
Not usually for me. I do play a lot of Witch and Gladiator builds tho. I will grant my Shadow builds can but usually not till later.
wild arch
There's one right next to ambidexterity
wild arch
And one next to the 2 hander and sword wheels
There's no way majority of duelists don't pass them early
Witch got one next to minion instability and AoF, and one next to CI
You're also pretty much guaranteed to go past them
And then there are nodes next to acrobatics and RT
storm crown
the type of jewel is what you get as nodes. if you get a minion cluster you will roll minion notables on it
buoyant mango
I'll grant its not hard to get within striking distance of one. But your still investing at minimum 10 points from somewhere else. I mean, not saying they arn't going to be neat, but I was really hope that it would be viable to burrow to three of them and play a almost completely cluster build.
wild arch
If you don't want that then just sell or drop it
Until you get what you want
It is viable
For golems at least
And very likely split personality too
If you really want to you can grab 2 nodes and branch out 2 whole trees with voices
buoyant mango
I also relooked at things and realize that had things borked in my head. For some god aweful reason I was thinking it was 32 points just to get to one, when it was 32/33 points to get to three. I retract most of my problems
Although it is still likely to take 70 points to get three in a useful manner. But that is acceptable.
wild arch
People need to realize that these nodes are meant to replace existing ones in your build with something better
Like the quick and deadly notable is just straight up better ambidexterity
Should you replace it with that? Who knows. But there's nothing stopping you from socketing it on the opposite side of the tree and playing a dual wielding melee occultist
dusty umbra
a lot of trees path out a lot so you could save quite a bit on various builds since most builds are near 2 outer jewels
@buoyant mango for example i don't have to go all the way down to scion stuff
wild arch
Now that's a great example 
hasty perch
man varunastra is looking better , a lot better
between the clusters with 12% axe + 12% sword damage
that new really nice notable with good damage if both weapons are different type
wait does varunastra counts as different type if it's all types?
wild arch
I'm having doubts about that one working
hasty perch
it's technically the same but also different
wild arch
I'd like to say yes but then again it's PoE...
peak terrace
man
hasty perch
allowing 3 notables +2 jewels on a single one
peak terrace
go to pathofexile
hasty perch
hasty perch
i know
buoyant mango
yea, and we have all looked at it 🙂
hasty perch
but every other with 2 jewel sockets
had 2x 1 jewel socket
from what i saw at least maybe i remember wrong
so i find it pretty weird
to be able to get twice the same mod if one mod can give it twice
peak terrace
huh?
wild arch
Is this a higher tier of the same mod or a different one tho
peak terrace
hasty perch
requires level 60 so maybe higher tier jewels only
wild arch
hasty perch
yeah looked at old ones , i thought it was taking 2 mods space but the jewel was actually a 3 mod jewel
there was another 2 mod
but it had 2 passives and a 2 added passive skills are jewel sockets
native sonnet
no, we have seen 2 jewel sockets before
hasty perch
so i expected it to be taking 2 mods
native sonnet
yeah same
hasty perch
and be a full jewel
that's why it looked weird as this one would be 5 mod
which isn't possible on jewels
native sonnet
so today's news is really nice knowing that u can get 2 jewel on top of 3 notables
instead of each jewel costing a notable affix
hasty perch
and that also makes no sense balance wise
because you'll pretty much always want 2 sockets
native sonnet
its just 1 mod but with tiers
hasty perch
yeah
wild arch
But how many can you have on medium jewels 
hasty perch
i thought you paid a mod for the 2nd jewel
that looked more balanced tbh
being able to get 3 notables and 2 jewels on top
is looking ridiculously broken
if you get good ones ofc , i'm not a fan of the one they just added
mod wise
wild arch
What are you ready to sacrifice for this power?
hasty perch
i'll find
that jewel looks absurd tho if it was without these meh notables
it's 2 points for a notable and 2 points for a jewel
5 times
and good notables and jewels are worth more than 2 points clearly
they're looking a lot stronger than anticipated if you can have 5 big nodes like that on a 10 passives jewel
wild arch
Power creep? In my Path of Exile??
torpid sonnet
They have 4 mods, but the 2 jewel sockets appear to be one mod
and a jewel is typically worth more than a notable
peak terrace
ideally ud want 8 passives added
just cause the 12% dmg node is not worth the skill point
imo
torpid sonnet
the 12% are travel nodes
hasty perch
oh that's an 8 not a 10 my bad
peak terrace
yes and the less travel nodes the better
hasty perch
but yes you want the fewer you can
peak terrace
if u exalt that jewel
wild arch
They're 24% damage nodes for varunastra
peak terrace
it would transform the one small above the left jewel
which would be pretty fire
7 points for 2 jewels and 3 notables
hasty perch
absurdly unbalanced
peak terrace
or potentially 5 points for 2 jewels and 2 notables
if u dont get the one notable between the jewels
torpid sonnet
including the socket and the 2 travel points to it thats 10 points
which is still decent
hasty perch
considering how overpowered some of those passives are
peak terrace
i legit cant wait to see more ele nodes
hasty perch
i mean notables
i know at some point i'll do a meme build with 6 times the 10% increased aoe per second up to 50% while standing still
wild arch
I can't wait to see ignite nodes specifically
peak terrace
u are also 100% certain to get charges on hit/ kill/ crit or stuff like that
so u could solve potentiall charges generation things
wild arch
100% chance to gain charges on block on a cast on block build 
peak terrace
idk how easy it is to get power charges on a block build
hasty perch
i'm curious to see what mods you can add to small passives
appart from the ones we saw
wild arch
Did they only show small jewels with extra stats on nodes?
hasty perch
they've shown large ones too i think
I wonder how high the flat life goes , there was a +13 life per small passive
wild arch
Having a large jewel with 10 nodes that have 5 stats on each doesn't sound that bad
hasty perch
limited to 4
peak terrace
i imagine u can do the same for a large jewel
but do u want to buff small passives reallz
instead of getting a notable
wild arch
Limited to 4 mods, but the nodes have a stat on them by default
Therefore 5 stats per node
hasty perch
for some very specific builds it would be interesting imo
let's say you play varunastra and get a 12% sword 12% axe passive one like they've shown a few days ago
get 25% small passive effect
30% damage per node
wild arch
hasty perch
can add 15~ life
6% damage like here , or even 8% chaos looks decent
i wouldn't be against taking 12 nodes with 30% damage 15 life and 10% chaos resist on a varunastra build
wild arch
You know what would be nice? Something that actually benefits chaos hits
Pure chaos attacks are long overdue
hasty perch
need the skill to use them tho
wild arch
Viper strike is kinda there
wild arch
Closest I've tried was viper strike paradoxica
Didn't scale anything for the poison
It was just there
But this is exactly my point
We don't have the tools for a 'death knight' build
And that's disappointing
Like just look at the traditional chaos options
Chaos herald only affects poison and has a minion
Chaos aura is locked behind rare endgame encounters
cursive widget
looks like varunastra might be a good weapon this league
wild arch
Chaos curse increases the damage over time enemies take
Eternity shroud is a shaper drop
Breath of the council is... a mace
Edge of madness needs a fated version or something
Lightbane raiment could work for Phys to chaos if the stats on it weren't garbage
tawny pasture
since when varunasta isnt a good weapon tho ?
wild arch
Since its good nodes got removed?
tawny pasture
even , its still not a bad one
wild arch
It's painfully slow
slender temple
Chaos resist aura please
timid geyser
with the changes to the bottom half the tree and it being so dense there isn't really much of an advantage of varunstra vs other melee weapons.
So really all it is now is a ~300pdps sword that can use weird skills
wild arch
And can't even use weird combos like shockwave on non-mace skills
torn isle
wait, blade blast doesn't consume blade vortex instantly, but instead seems to consuming it in a chain... does that mean if we can cast vortex fast enough the blade blast will continue chaining through it?
coral garden
stand in one spot spam bv and chain it to hit the whole map
thin vine
idk, can mines chain infinitely off one detonation if you throw fast enough?
native sonnet
theorotically, but dont think u can get enough throw speed
wild arch
The mine detonation sequence speeds up over time so it's impossible to keep it up forever
torn isle
though giving the mines more detonations may help to chain it longer I'd think.
barren crescent
barren crescent
Play ssf
brazen arch
i dont see how that will make a diff
violet nymph
oooh wave mode for simulacrum
no
@violet nymph it just converts your map
eh kinda
it's more like breach kinda
in the fact that it converts the area into breach. except instead of a small area, it covers the whole area. and it's a long duration
torn isle
It shows the minions spawning into the fog.
violet nymph
@torn isle they stated that the volume of minions spawned was a bit overtuned there
torn isle
Maybe, but my point is that the minions don't start out pre-spawned, it spawns in.
though I do wonder if the only effect is additional minions and minion buffs, or can it do other things like create new map areas outright.
vapid agate
on the latest baeclast devs mentioned that the delirium will spread across a single linear pathway throughout the map and not take into account obstacles that you can dash thru etc, how will that work for maps where there are multiple pathways for you to go thru
eager terrace
that isn't how it spreads
that's just how it calculates the scaling
it doesn't seem to "spread" at all, you're either in delirium or not
bitter ledge
How will the fog spread work?
Is it just like this? Touch the mirror and the entire area is covered in fog?
Or will it slowly spread out, like a Breach?
cunning blade
i think it just straight up turns the entire map into delirium
and the fog gets thicker the further u are from the starting point
the mirror shud be somewhere near the starting portal anyway
so by the time u get to the boss area, things are super rippy
bitter ledge
Well then... who's up for farming Act 10 Ravaged Square? 😅
bitter ledge
As I've said yesterday
cunning blade
just farm linear af maps and watch contagion wipe
bitter ledge
The mirror will cause the entire area to be covered in fog. One player will enter from one side. 4 other players join afterwards from each other entrance. Everybody kills a few monsters and goes back to reset the area.
Granted, you are sacrificing 'mapping time'. But if you get to act 10 within 3-4 hours, I feel like it is pretty nice to build up a bit of currency before you start mapping.
I think it will be very similar to what we had this league, with the Grain Gate.
I don't think that this will be like Harbour Bridge in Betrayal or Glacier in Legion.
cunning blade
ember lodge
Listening to Baelcast, the scaling for delirium mobs sounds brutal
like deep delve levels of hp 😛
patent canyon
missed the early part, can you time stamp the part they talk about it?
storm crown
They also talked about conquerer being delirius
patent canyon
yeah i catched that you can do that to conqs and elder/shaper guardians but not blight maps
just didnt get in time where they talked about the thing as a whole
storm crown
Mechanic is very interesting
ember lodge
I think people are underestimating how hard the later delirium mists are going to be
wild arch
I guess jugg might be the way to go 
He has the most defensive nodes around him
Which can be supplemented with damage clusters
rose pasture
Wat? Hows hes nerfed?
wild arch
They said in baeclast that minions and mana guardian are getting nerfed
storm crown
they want them to use more currency and less free damage or free defense
ember lodge
To be fair, minions were nuts
ember lodge
Long live the hiero
storm crown
when you can stack offensive stat and get all your defense from it, is anyone even shocked if it gets nerfed?
wild arch
Dual strike sounds pretty good tbh
Mace in the off hand for aoe and any other weapon type in main for single target
hasty perch
unless they massively dunk minions
like REALLY hard
they're probably going to be as strong than before or stronger
that +1 min power charge +70% crit multi notable on minions is absurd powercreep
storm crown
atm quite limited to how much crit minions can have
violet nymph
Neon said they were hitting minions hard
tall crane
@hasty perch @storm crown crit chance will be ~12% with that new jewel
dusty umbra
Also uniques getting nerfed (geofris/shapers touch/probably baron too)
tall crane
just need to fix baron
storm crown
they want power come from investing currency not geting offensive or defensives for free
tall crane
that`s all we need
storm crown
shapers and geofris needs to be hit
tall crane
just need to remove from game 1 stroke of code +1 to maximum number of Raised Zombies per 300 Strength
🙂
storm crown
think thery will hit the leech on the baron if anything
storm crown
when your zombies do that much damage you would do the same with same currency on other speccs as well
tall crane
yeah, its why i said spectres/ed/doublestrike league
storm crown
to get to 2500+ strenght amount of currency needed is alot
storm crown
if you want to instant kill bosses you do
sour mountain
so looking at that new big jewel they've posted; those are three entirely different archetypes from that enchant
wild arch
Which jewel?
patent canyon
the varunastra jewel?
timid geyser
That jewel (the axe + sword) only had 2 notables
The dual wielding one was still all pretty applicable to DW attack based builds.
Damage based off two weapon types, block while dual wielding, and ele damage with attack skill
sly vector
i just hope theres crit multiplier cluster jewels
so i dont have to travel half of the grid for them
timid geyser
tbh just use normal jewels. They can normally roll quite a decent amount of multi
sly vector
dont have slots for that many
timid geyser
but if you have points for cluster jewels you'd have points for jewel sockets.
sly vector
so a cluster jewels with handfull of nodes could be like 60% or mode if theyre 10-15% each
thorn furnace
does anybody know if the delirium mobs get increased life or take reduced damage with the increase of delirium %?
I feel like they mentioned it in baeclast but I missed it
wild arch
I don't like it when they do shit like cloak and wings from challenge rewards .-.
wild arch
I mean 2 back attachments for the same league
hasty perch
oh ok
no portal is a bit of a letdown tho
but i guess you can't have wings and portal since they're 36 challenge stuff
or they're too easy to grab
bitter ledge
Do we have any info on how the system of preferred maps will work? Let's say that you'll apply the map preferration to a T16 Summit map in New Vastir. Does it mean that most T16 New Vastir maps will be Summit, or that most T16 maps in general will be Summit?
peak terrace
huh?
bitter ledge
When they discussed it in Baeclast, they mentioned that you would be able to have 3 'orbs' per zone to apply to one specific map in order to make it a 'preferred map'
But I don't know if that applies to the entire Atlas, or just to the zone.
The devs did mention that the Tiers are still rolled first.
hard dew
I think entire atlas.
wild arch
If they didn't explain it there then we got no other info
bitter ledge
So, what if you did this?
Haewark Hamlet: 3 orbs on Castle Ruins (T14).
Tirn's End: 3 Orb on strand (T14)
Lex Proxima: 3 Orbs of Crystal Ore (T16)
Lex Ejoris: 3 Orbs on Canyon (T16)
New Vastir: 3 Orbs on Park (T15)
The devs were very implicit about it, though.
warm steppe
they said 3 per zone
bitter ledge
Ooooohhh.. Let's see if I can find the clip
So per region you get to pick - this is something we're currently going with so it might develop a bit more.
Whenever that you can pick 1 or 2 or 3 maps and it could be 3 of the same map to apply I drop weighting to, like I drop weighting multiplier to and you unlock the 1 and 2 and 3 based on like completing all maps in the region, bonus objectives and awakening objectives and the idea would be that you can stack all 3 of those on 1 map if that's what you want.
coral garden
U still dont want a fully completed atlas though
bitter ledge
I don't know if that will be the case. I have my own reasons to think it will apply to the zone and reasons for why I think it will apply to the Atlas.
coral garden
Its just a weighting multiplier
bitter ledge
Because the devs did mention that "the map tier was rolled first". There would little reason to mention it if it was on a region-base.
coral garden
If u have 5x t16 open u have 20% chance to get the t16 u want
bitter ledge
However, they also did mention requiring 'awakener level 6' for this to be viable?
sour mountain
i think it depends on what you're target farming but if you're target farming t16 i think it might be worth it with the new system? no idea though, i don't go that hard target farming
coral garden
Assuming no unlocked adjacent
bitter ledge
Yeah.
And the by the way. I know I've asked this so many times, but I never got a clear answer
sour mountain
OH MY GOD
coral garden
It just allows higher completion for ppl who wanna target farm
sour mountain
the cute young lady at kfc gave me a POP CORN CHICKEN un the bottom of my chips!!!
what an angel
bitter ledge
Mainly because IDK how to properly phrase my question
If I were to put one watchstone in 1 area to eleminate all T1-3 maps, does that mean that T4+ maps will drop more often, or does their drop rate stay the same?
coral garden
@sour mountain wrong channel
sour mountain
no, timmy; the game picks the drop tier, then it picks the map
the only exception iirc is adjacencies
bitter ledge
Alright. So if all T1-3 maps are removed with the watchstones, it will not increase T4+ map drops?
cursive widget
yeah I still don't think you want to full complete your atlas
sour mountain
i think it will, technically, in the new system, iirc it saves the map drop as like... an internal value, and once you get so many t3 maps it'll drop a t4?
cursive widget
how would one go about even making their atlas though? If you didn't want to fully complete it? How would you do it?
cursive widget
where is that from?
bitter ledge
I made that myself.
sour mountain
dunno, does that chart include tiers of the maps?
bitter ledge
Around a month ago, when i was planning my SSF atlas strat.
sour mountain
i think you'll want to stack one t14x3, one t15x3, one t16x3
bitter ledge
Well... this actual chart is something that I made a few days ago, but the general concept is the same.
hard dew
NGL, you’re asking the question, but you’re probably more informed than the rest of us. 🤔
bitter ledge
Here's the thing. I usually know a lot about advanced topics, but not about basic topics... It's a weird quirk that I have.
cursive widget
does anyone have a link to a guide on a good atlas strategy for farming the good layout t16 maps? Because I have no idea how you would go about doing that
hard dew
He just posted one. Lol.
coral garden
Per region u want only the good layout maps unlocked
cursive widget
@coral garden so you just don't complete or do the bad layout ones then I guess?
coral garden
U can do just dont kill boss
bitter ledge
^
To add to this, just keep repeating to yourself "Dont kill the boss. Don't kill the boss. Don't kill the boss"
cursive widget
and you don't kill the boss because if so, you're fucked
bitter ledge
I usually just like to seek out the boss or the arena ASAP, so I can backtrack and kill all of the mobs that I skipped along the way.
cursive widget
and now you will have to run that map for conq
bitter ledge
Also, do not join a friend's map. I learned that the hard way.
cursive widget
@bitter ledge so are you like only completing 15 or so maps total lol
bitter ledge
Yeah. I get most of my atlas bonuses from the unique maps.
And if I find a map tolerable, I'll complete it anyways.
deep wave
Further away from the start of Delirium you go the higher the reward counter, the higher the difficulty.
promenade?
bronze cave
yeah that's gonna be unpleasant
torn isle
How would it work with cells anyway with how the map loops back to start-ish?
timid geyser
It was talked about a little bit on baeclast.
It is essentially based off pathfinding rather than absolute distance from the start of the delirium encounter.
torn isle
how about maps where you start from center then explore the circumference?
timid geyser
Works the same way.
So yeah, those maps would have a lower "depth" at the boss encounter.
torn isle
that'd mean some maps wouldn't be optimal just because the boss depth would be very low due to the map's design then.
timid geyser
Yeah, sorta.
If you wanna know a bit more about it Neon explained it quite well on the baeclast episode.
coral garden
Or u can say they are optimal because they will be the fastest and easiest to run @torn isle
last river
New node is basically totally useless right?
I wouldn't pay one point for it, let alone waste a large jewel
gloomy bay
It’s QoL that brands really don’t need at all
cunning blade
doubt brands cud become a more popular skill option still
totems and brands need some love to make them more appealing
timid geyser
totem life buffs that were talked about on baeclast sound really nice.
cunning blade
brand prolif when
cobalt falcon
Delirium map wide is endless? If i have bazilion move speed, how deep i can travel?
timid geyser
Deliruim effects the entire map.
from the sounds of things the duration is quite long (multiple minutes) which should mean most optimized builds should be able to clear entire maps during the duration. (assuming the build can handle the extra difficulty)
And when you use the orbs on maps there is no time limit.
torn isle
hope the orbs are common enough then, cause I don't like needing to rush through maps. :v
timid geyser
From the sounds of things there shouldn't be too much of an issue with rushing maps. The rewards are apparently scale in a logarithmic manner where you don't get much more rewards for having much faster clear speed
So if you clear a map half as slow and can't get the whole map cleared instead of getting half the rewards from the league mechanic you'd only loss like 20% of the rewards. Obviously have no idea on the numbers, just using them as an example.
zealous monolith
oh dear Beyond is a mod on the map device
thick tiger
i wonder if it’s actually possible to do entire story from act 1 to act 10 with delirium active the entire time
torn isle
wonder how delirium will affect uber hillock farm. :V
versed tulip
Starts in the coast like most leagues no?
torn isle
wound't know. :P
versed tulip
Pretty sure we wont be able to shatter the mirror until the coast
thick tiger
i hope we can delirium beach but only from where we wash up on the shore
cunning blade
something something max delirium map with beyond mod and then beyond zana mod
last river
@cobalt falcon You can travel as far as the map layout allows
But that's probably a bad idea unless you're decked out in gear good enough to take on what's waiting for you there
lucid stone
I really hope there's a similar node that's like 'Mines gain 20% increased AoE per second they are on the ground'
tall lily
Does anyone know how long does the league mechanic timer lasts for?
thick tiger
minutes, generally it will last about the same length of time an average map takes to mostly complete
you just have to kill everything fast enough to keep pushing into the delirium, and the further you go away from the mirror the harder it gets, up to 100% delirium
the distance is how far via normal pathing and you can skip into higher tier delirium by movement over gaps or thru cages
torn isle
Offthought: with enough speed, is it possible to run in front of the delirium fog?
void wing
I doubt it.
slender temple
from what i understand it just fills the map then you have 2 minutes to clear as much as you can to get the reward
wild arch
Putting the same spell in 2 different triggers should work right?
Like one bladefall in CoC and the other in spellslinger
peak terrace
bruh
u cannot cyclone with wands
no ?
o wait u didnt say cyclone just coc
im stupid
wild arch
Also how exactly does chieftain's fire and phys damage per endurance charge work
Do you benefit from both if you convert?
frank hound
what would wands have to do with it, I gave an example of 2 triggers to show that it works
wild arch
That's a separate question
rare root
hm, delirium to blight maps at later point maybe..
wild arch
I don't think you're allowed to delirium blighted maps
rare root
it wont be enabled at start of league but they said they'll maybe add it later
hope they do, sounds like fun
wild arch
Sounds way overkill
peak terrace
also i doubt it would be fun and balanced
wild arch
Didn't they also say that people are underestimating high delirium?
peak terrace
tbh with howmuch dmg is in the game
how crazy must they make regular mobs
when half the builds kill a8 conquerers in one flask duration
wild arch
Delirium mobs don't leave corpses so the most common pack clearers are out the window already
wild arch
Don't all on kill explosions require corpses?
peak terrace
also i find it so funny how ppl keep talkin about it
but newly spawned delirium mobs are mixed inbetween og mobs
u are still gonna explode ffs
just not the new mobs lel
copper kernel
people cleared absurdly fast without exploding effects
wild arch
Do you think simulacrum will have non delirium mobs?
peak terrace
thats not gonna be clear meta dude
those ar gonna be like scaling rare mobs and stuff
copper kernel
overall ggg are either underestimating our damage
or the encounters are going to be poorly balanced
peak terrace
at some point u gonna be facing multiple conq lvl mobs at once
who cares about explode there
frank hound
wait a second, does gladiator explosion require a corpse?
copper kernel
all explody effects do
frank hound
ah fuck...guess I need to find another build
frank hound
yeah I know, it sucked for me and it took a long time for them to be added
not repeating that mistake
rare root
i'm quite confident my build will be able to clear em, else i'll just have to reroll 😄 But they did state it was more HP than Damage they'll be increasing as difficulty scales, so hopefully not too many nasty one-shots
fallen tulip
toxic rain mines are gonna be my starter
rare root
excited to see what else there is of DoT multi jewels, the one they showed seemed to be pretty solid dmg
dusty umbra
yeah we need to see what notables +5 chaos multi one can get
torn isle
Can delirium affect unique maps?
copper kernel
torn isle
mostly was wondering what grandmaster delirium would be like.
rare root
pain
torn isle
Also wonder if labyrinth can have delirium
dusty umbra
Demi's chars are always a pain even without it lul
cunning blade
delirium uber izaro
torn isle
With argus helping
vital idol
Thinking maybe bleed glad this league as a starter, never made one before and seems solid
frank hound
ye but then like me, you realize that delirium mobs don't explode
and you nope out of there
quiet geyser
Do we know if the atlas maps will change?
wintry apex
i was thinking about fireball mines. never played mines before. then baeclast happened 
quiet geyser
So just some tier swaps assumably and not afull rearrangemnt ^^
frank hound
ye that baeclast ruined a lot of starters
with the no corpses announcement
good thing they asked
wintry apex
why is no corpses significant?
frank hound
you can't proliferate ignite from a corpse lying on the ground because there is no corpse
similar for any other ailment
additionally, no corpse = no explosions from say glad, or the explody chest
slender temple
Some things should work
wintry apex
oh, explody chest requires corpse?
slender temple
Item description doesnt mentention corpses
frank hound
which caused no explosions to occur
slender temple
Hmm
quiet geyser
Yea herald of ice doesnt work on them
frank hound
until they manually added each interaction later in the league
quiet geyser
makes sense with explody i guess
frank hound
beats me, haven;t used profane bloom since it was first added, can't remember exactly how it works
vital idol
The explody is on kill effect, dosent need a corpse
Those legacy gloves people used that cursed dead enemies will be useless
coral garden
Doesnt need corpse
If explody chest needed corpse people would have complained about it on reddit
So many normal monsters dont leave corpse
vital idol
Usually mods specify if corpse is needed
Inb4 patch notes say explody now requires a corpse
Doubt though
frank hound
well the wording isn't in such a way that it says it anywhere
their Maximum Life as Physical Damage``` this is gladiator's nodeKilled Enemies Explode, dealing 3% of their Life as Physical Damage
this is explody chest
Shocked Enemies you Kill Explode, dealing 5% of their Maximum Life as Lightning Damage which cannot Shock
this is inpulsa
Cursed Enemies you or your Minions Kill have a 25% chance to Explode, dealing a quarter of their maximum Life as Chaos Damage
and profane bloom
so which one needs it and which one doesn't based on wording alone
oh and let's not forget contagion If an enemy dies while affected by Contagion, it spreads to other enemies.
this one we know for a fact it works
but the wording is very different
severe shadow
So with the new cluster jewels would you be able to run an unnatural instinct to get all of the small passives for free?
wintry apex
no
all added passive skills are immune to the effects of unique jewels that have a range
midnight phoenix
if unnatural works like timeless jewels that should work fine
its shit like might of the meek that actually alters the nodes that i would expect to fall over
coral garden
I am not aware of an explode mechanic that require a corpse unless u mean detonate dead
midnight phoenix
asenath requires a corpse
i would expect all the regular stuff to work tho, im planning for it
radiant lance
Things that use corpses: summoner stuff, corspe skills like cremation, vd and dd, asenaths, some prolif stuff
coral garden
Well u scroll up and see what hes talking about
radiant lance
This is a hard one, but that makes it sound like they won't work from the wording if I was a betting person
coral garden
U kinda insisted they need corpses
frank hound
well what I did was I asked here someone said that
then I remembered about legion
and realized that indeed
no corpse = no boom
radiant lance
Yeah that's why I assumed, because legion had all the people going Ed complain before the league started
And then it was changed
For that skill
frank hound
for legion they specifically had to add each interaction manually
coral garden
radiant lance
Didn't they suggest on baeclast that there should be enough mobs for it to not be a problem
Like normal mobs
midnight phoenix
ye its not correct
frank hound
sigh
coral garden
Like since forever
radiant lance
I think pleau is saying in this particular delirium circumstance
Not arguing generally
midnight phoenix
presumably what he means is once it dies and doesnt leave a corpse u cant proliferate from it
frank hound
yes
radiant lance
Like there will not be delirium corpses so you won't be prolifing on delirium corpses
midnight phoenix
thats certainly true if u use binos plus exploding chest
coral garden
Thats alot of words missing
midnight phoenix
so i assume its the same here
ye its not the most clear statement but we got there in the end hey
in the end my guess is:
prolif + asenaths no
actual corpse explosions yes
coral garden
I mean if u people wont
midnight phoenix
i think thats pretty educated guess and in line with what most ppl are thinking
cunning blade
radiant lance
Just avoid anything that relies on potential corpses
Until we know for sure
At least that's gonna be my advice
midnight phoenix
im gonna be laughing when ppl rip to that aoe spike shit in the trailer
and they cant blow up the corpse to stop it
radiant lance
That spike stuff looked scury
midnight phoenix
neon was like ITS TELEGRAPHED
im like ok if u say so man, i know it got changed from the trailer so it had better be
coral garden
Well if it doesnt pierce, minions
midnight phoenix
it was like a giant spiky gc
radiant lance
Even if it is telegraphed, people move so fast with their explosion stuff covering the screen and flashy mtx, that they probably won't even see the telegraph
midnight phoenix
i dont think minions gonna do a whole ton
radiant lance
So you'll probably still see a bunch of deaths
frank hound
probably yeah
I expect to die to it myself several times
based on previous experience
frank hound
it's that ice line thing right?
frank hound
yeah...
midnight phoenix
who knows maybe it does 1k dmg
frank hound
they never learn their lessons with design do they..
midnight phoenix
but it looks like something u dont wanna eat
frank hound
inb4 it's like the delve giant spirit bomb
that never does anything just looks fancy
frank hound
i mean
it could be based on sunder or smth
and then it overlaps shockwaves
wouldn't that be something
radiant lance
My experience of legion on the first weekend was basically breaking open stuff and then instantly popping to red stuff all over my face
midnight phoenix
my experience of legion on the first weekend was basically breaking open stuff and then instantly dcing
frank hound
actually never had problems with the red walls because if you kept moving they were not that bad
but I kept getting killed by the maraketh archers
which to this day are not nerfed
midnight phoenix
vaal spaghetti hit very hard on no armour week 1
vital idol
Did Ed con all of legion
Didn't feel too bad
Got really tanky end of league
Shield bash guys were like the only dangerous mob
sharp wind
wintry apex
For regular mapping builds that rely on corpses will be completely fine. Delirium isn't much different from Beyond in that regard, only that Delirium front loads the monster spawn.
At least that's what I gathered from Baeclast
For ignite prolif specifically, why are corpses so important? If the toughest enemy is ignited all other mobs around it will die before they do
So in that regard it doesn't really matter if those mobs leave behind corpses or not
There will also still be plenty of regular monsters in maps, like always. Delirium doesn't take the corpses of those away.
The only thing where you can be concerned I guess is if your build absolutely relies on shock proliferation from small enemies and then are also in the simulacrum that might have fewer corpses or even no corpses since we don't know the monster composition of that encounter.
But are there builds that absolutely rely on shock prolif from dead bodies?
cunning blade
delirium seems to be more of clearing entire waves of mobs instead of fighting multiple tough enemies so
corpses are important for prolif since most of them will die in 1 hit anyway
can't prolif much without corpses unless they are all clumped together i assume
wintry apex
Yeah, but similar to beyond there won't be just delirium mobs in maps
We know nothing about the simulacrum enemy composition, but I think I heard Neon say after each wave corpses are removed, so presumably monsters that can leave corpses will spawn there as well
I really wonder who the end boss is going to be
It has to be someone we know already
rare root
items are removed after each wave
but there'll be a confirmation so you don't accidentally rip an exalt
wintry apex
yes, items too
torn isle
I could speculate on who the boss is, but it wouldn't be right here. 😛
radiant lance
The boss is krillson
wintry apex
Could it be..him?
radiant lance
Speculation over
torn isle
Random guess, possibly Innocence himself
torn isle
The one off thing about this trickster god thing, is that the Gods are supposed to be asleep-ish at the start of our journey, meaning that chronologically it has to be an event after at least act 4 where we woke all the gods. Since Innocence went on a journey to find himself... who's to say he didn't lose himself in guilt?
wintry apex
A trickster god from an item description doesn't have to be a literal god
It could refer to the shadow player character for all we know
tender tusk
There's loads of non literal gods that have strength above actual gods
wintry apex
Although that's unlikely I guess
torn isle
Maybe. But even then we don't have any cause to believe otherwise at this point. Then again, a trickster god would specifically trick you to believing he doesn't exist, so maybe he's working beyond sleep to influence others, the same way Innocence had some influence on the world despite being asleep...
tender tusk
i think he'll just be a different incredibly powerful person
like sirus isn't a god but he's pretty clearly stronger than them
torn isle
There're different tiers of Gods though. :v
Like you've minor gods, major gods, and Kitava.
I'd say the trickster god is likely an equivalent tier to Sin and Innocence.
tender tusk
he just looks like a corrupted person
wintry apex
You think that's where we'll encounter him as well?
torn isle
I'd say we can only see him in delirium, meaning we don't know if he actually exists. 😛
wintry apex
tender tusk
he kinda looks like a shaper situation
where he's just a reasonably powerful person driven to madness or smth
wintry apex
torn isle
note that in the screenshot the area is covered in fog. Maybe when we first enter lioneye's watch it'll be foggy and empty save for him, and after we speak to him, he and the fog disappears.
tender tusk
unlikely but would be very cool
maybe the coast or something is like that
but probably not a town
wintry apex
That'd be such a good intro to the league
Imagine if the entire twilight strand even would already be covered
peak terrace
dude
imagine delirium is maps only
and after u kill strand dude
the mirror pops
and a voice
look at u
so weak
torn isle
if twilight strand starts of as delirium, I'd ask again what uber hillock would be like... then again, uber hillock could be justified as a delirium version of hillock. :V
