doesn't PP cast spells in sequence though?
#1┃mirage-league
wild arch
I wanna see an evolution of the cast on block build
Fill every socket with spellslinger spells
torn isle
quick question: In what gear order are triggered effects activated?
wild arch
torn isle
ah wait, foudnn the section mentioning it nm.
wild arch
The more important question that I haven't seen anyone asking is, does dual wielding with spellslinger add the wand base damage from both wands at once or just the one that's attacking?
wild arch
Also is it possible to bring 270% mana reserve down to 100% or less? 
sour mountain
i want to say yes, but i don't know enough about maximum mana reservation to say for sure
radiant lance
270 seems high, probably not unless you have reservations that can be nullified by uniques
Would be my reserved guess
torn isle
how are you getting 270% mana reserve..?
torn isle
I mean, knowing what you're using is needed since some ways of reducing mana reserve is specific on what you're reserving. :v
dusty umbra
- Enlighten
- ~16% reduced from tree
- Maybe few jews with 1% reduced
getting 150ish reduced is not that hard ; 270 sounds a lot tho
dusty umbra
Enlight ; 16% from tree or so ; few 1% reduced jewels ; maybe reduced reserved helm (unless were planning for other helm)
flint summit
I'm not sure if this has come up at any point, but I believe arcane cloak was phrased to mitigate damage based on the mana you paid to activate it. Would that mean that it does nothing in trigger setups?
patent canyon
it will trigger and consume mana for it
same way IC consumes end charges even on trigger set ups
patent canyon
all auras in the game 
vast berry
i think its the maximum number of spells you can have for spellslinger
torn isle
also yes, it does mean it's unusable in trigger setups, if it even triggers.
it's not like other guard skills anyway in that it can be refreshed before expiry.
sour mountain
ummm
if you have a 270% reserved spellslinger you need... 60%? reduced reservation, don't you?
violet nymph
@torn isle also it cant be refreshed. It explicitly states the cooldown doesnt start till the effect ends
It functions just like the others
sharp iron
Do you think any of the new notables will provide any mini-mind over matter effects? LIke doing that at a 5% amount? That'd be pretty useful.
hasty perch
most likely not
you can stack them
i'm not sure it's good to allow for too much MoM effect
hoary snow
it'd be pretty funny to find a way to get near 100% MoM and be able to use Death's Oath without chaos innoculation
wary minnow
you can already use DO without CI realistically, just have to stack chaos res
like with the legion jewel to get 85% it's pretty good but DO is a rough build with the boss buffs
hoary snow
Good point
last river
You can't have too much mom effect in the game just like you can't have too much phys reduction or max resistance boosts
It leads to degenerate buildmaking
Though now that I think about it 100% mom is basically CI, though if ggg wants to make that an option our Mana options will need substantial rebalancing.
steep plover
if you could get 100% MoM...I wonder what the highest potential mana pool is?
in reality, its probably not even as good as ES
wild arch
Yeah the 270% mana reserve was for a full spellslinger meme
vast berry
ey i was right
the question is though
does it do it in series across links?
like obviously the 6 libk would be 5 spells cast in series
meaning you would need 10 aps
but do all the other spellslinger cast simultaneously?
violet nymph
It was stated that it fires all at once
wild arch
Here's a slightly better not so memey setup: poison assassin with EK, BF and BB spellslinging
vast berry
i think spell slinging could definitely be decent for assasin poison
because it will ramp the duration very quickly
wild arch
Oh
vast berry
and for clear you just run that new notable
because i imagine you have small individual poisons
wild arch
Does increased mana cost of spells increase the mana reserve?
vast berry
from supports?
violet nymph
Yes
vast berry
yes
wild arch
Not supports
violet nymph
Not sure tbh
wild arch
I'm thinking about apep's rage
vast berry
does increased mana cost affect auras?
wild arch
It's like 30% increased cost on each
Well
Blood magic support has a mana multiplier which does raise it
But generic mana cost increases or reductions don't affect auras
Nah surely it can't affect it
Cause hierophant will get 50% cheaper spellslinger reservation
GGG: we aren't doing build archetypes anymore
Also GGG: here are 6 new gems with godlike hierophant synergy
Ah, apep's rage has 40% increased mana costs
80% increase is still nothing on an unsupported frenzy
sour mountain
...yes 🤔
wild arch
Now we just need to find out if it scales the damage with your unreserved mana in general or the mana used specifically 
patent canyon
some wonky interactions that will be interesting to learn how everything trully works
wild arch
@silver kettle do you know if archmage support's damage scales on the total unreserved mana pool or the mana cost of the spell?
peak terrace
it is % of the unreserved mana spent probably
if u watch the video on 0.25 speed
u can see it drops by roughly 25%
or was t 20% idk
mellow hatch
The mana cost is set to a percent of unreserved mana
Damage could be based on mana spent, OR on the same math
And that is different
In rare cases
peak terrace
and i assume it is just X to Y lightning damage per X flat mana spent
wild arch
I'm trying to figure out the weave interaction
Because it's either ridiculously good or completely pointless depending on which it is
silver kettle
Not super keen to answer Archmage questions because it's still in final balance so things are subject to change
dusty umbra
i mean until we see the scaling and stuff hard to say for sure anyway
native sonnet
mechanically, does spellslinger-archmage support works? hmmmm
barren crescent
Does arch mage's mana consumption count as losing mana or actually spending mana?
swift sequoia
I'd imagine spellslinger-archmage would do nothing cause spellslinger is percentage reservation and archmage adds numerical cost and slung-spells don't cost mana
native sonnet
so archmage overide spell's mp cost to x% of unreserved mp, whereas spellslinger change the mp into "aura" with 15% reservation, both are "overriding" the original mp cost
and yeah i don't expect them to actually work
just some thought puzzles on what would actually happen
or could happen*
swift sequoia
yup
wanton rivet
Archmage and spellslinger is too weird I hope they don't interact so I don't have to think about it
sharp iron
Spellslinger will possibly add a second use for Enlighten support beyond just using it on auras.
If reduced mana cost doesn't reduce the mana reservation from Spellslinger support, than Enlighten support will be used for that purpose instead.
swift sequoia
I wonder how spellsinger interacts with items that reduce mana reservation such as Victario's Influence
native sonnet
just like normal reduced mp reservation
barren crescent
Isn't it about teaser o'clocl?
sharp iron
I don't know
timid geyser
Still plenty of time for NZ work day.
dusty umbra
@barren crescent anywhere between now and next 4-8 hours as usual
timid geyser
but also patch notes when? /s
native sonnet
took that "question" as a meme rather than actual question
ember lodge
Archmage kind of scares me after doing some spreadsheet magic.
void elbow
Do we know if we are going to be able to use Archmage and Stormbind with totems?
barren crescent
... you got the numbers on it?
ember lodge
In the vid it eats roughly 1750 mana = 22.5% of his max. After working out the multipliers from the skill icons its looking like roughly 3% base before multi's
and one of the multi's is inc crit strikes for only 115% more
On a 6 link with a 130 or 140% that's going to eat 30-40% of your max mana per cast
timid geyser
Keep in mind the character could have some about of reduced mana cost of skills
ember lodge
Oh true, but it still ate 22.5% of his max mana on a 5 link
regardless of reduced mana cost nodes
if anything its even more brutal if that char took those 😛
timid geyser
Yeah, just saying 3% base mana is like potential low end. (though I'm sure the support gem is going through blanace changes as we speak)
ember lodge
Oh i'm sure, but as it stands it's going to be really interesting how people offset that mana cost.
barren crescent
Casters don't have ways to sustain that kind of mana consumption without mana flask
ember lodge
The shift from a 5-link to 6 link is massive.
timid geyser
Enduring mana flask 
ember lodge
mana flasks just aren't going to cut that honestly, you'll need some kind of enduring dps effect or DOT to take full advantage of the massive boost to raw damage imo
native sonnet
mind of the council, crit/shock, with multifast hitting like stormburst hmmm
timid geyser
Ball Lightning would be the go to skill for something like that.
ember lodge
drop a massive orb, then proc it as fast as possible
barren crescent
magma orb
native sonnet
wonder how it scale with channeling lol
unleash archmage is probably the way to go for most
and recharge mp in between
ember lodge
Do the unleash copies cost mana?
wild arch
MOBA build with 4 archmage unleash spells?
native sonnet
depends what spells, i tried doing 4 copies of unleash firestorm this league scaling duration
the lags get really bad after like 6 casts
and it lags to the point u cant even cycle ur unleash properly cuz game froze
patent canyon
so the build works
barren crescent
BV, BL, MO, PF unleash build
native sonnet
"works"
patent canyon
if build is lagging server then it works and has reached peak performance
wild arch
Highly recommend trying the setup out
Preferably on trickster instead of saboteur
Especially if you use movement skill traps to make them free and allow you to upgrade architect's into slavedriver's
storm crown
Love smoke mine
wanton flower
would the tempest blast node (Gain 20% wand phys damage as extra lightning damage) increase the damage added to spells via spellslinger?
native sonnet
no
bright perch
We do not know the exact wording yet, I believe. But from Your wand's base damage is added to the damage of the spell. Base damage includes all local added and increased damage modifiers, making attack wands powerful when you're focussed on Spellslinging. I would think not.
only local damage actually on the wand itself
coarse moon
yea it has to be local to the wand
wanton flower
yeah, guess it isn't classified as an "increased damage modifier" then
that was moreso what I was unsure with, ty!
coarse moon
if the stat modifies the advanced details on the weapon, it would count as base damage
bright perch
Marc has clarified it recently, which made a lot of sense for me: local modifiers are anything affecting the item while it is on the floor.
anything else, that only applies if you actually equip the item is not local, so it is global
so the exact damage the item has when it lies on the floor is added to your spell
but probably as flat spell damage, so that could potentially be scaled by all your %spell damage scaling
which would be very powerful
spice cipher
Base dmg isn’t that hard to understand
timid geyser
Yup
native sonnet
on weapon yes, other item no
peak terrace
noiceee
wanton flower
Thanks for the help 😄
Elemental damage on wands can be higher than physical damage on wands, but which is actually better in practice do you guys think?
wanton flower
Decisions decisions haha
Should be able to more or less theorycraft a build in PoB by making some custom weapons to match the whole 'base damage added to spells'
native sonnet
teaser finally
silver kettle
I just want everyone to know that the entire reason I made this teaser jewel is to show off my stupid minion crit node
because it's so goofy and I love it
timid geyser
I think the name on the new teaser is bugged. It says "sol bliss" and not "yuzu's wet dream"
native sonnet
this is u?
timid geyser
But yeah, that crit node is really sick ngl.
native sonnet
lol
gray moon
that jewel is broken
timid geyser
Feasting Fiends seems a little underwhelming for a notable.
Make sense though can't have every notable be god-tier.
silver kettle
I literally just exalted it before copying to community and Feasting Fiends is what you got, sorry 😛
gray moon
melee gets 1 rage per 1 sec and minion builds get +70% crit multiplier, GG
timid geyser
I mean every build is getting stuff like this.
hasty perch
it's really different imo
gray moon
sure, every build is definitely getting stuff like this
hasty perch
minions had 0 way of getting decent crit multi
except for animate guardian with the gloves
i guess skellies build get to have 100M dps with good gear now
timid geyser
Also you are assuming minions are going untouched in patch notes (hint they are getting nerfed)
gray moon
can't wait for 60% necromancer playerbase and they're gonna make melee gems more expensive because of their skeleton stuff
bruh how much can they be nerfed
look at that shit
do you know how much +70% crit multiplier is?
who the fuck
hasty perch
get voices : put 6x70% multi
bronze cave
How much crit chance do minions usually have?
timid geyser
More sources of scaling damage on minions builds the better. With ever source you can nerf their base damage and require more investment to hit high damage numbers.
hasty perch
watch a single skeleton outdamage a berserker
vast berry
it might be for larges only
gray moon
idk man
if they nerf it too hard, it will be melee tier way of getting decent DPS with minions which clearly would make people angry
but if they dont nerf minions hard, then that node is going to be 500% broken
its not even +70% crit multip alone
gives a free power charge along just to boost that dps up to galaxy
hasty perch
you can now play with a single zombie because he'll have enough damage to clear all content , alone
just for memes
midnight phoenix
Well the stupid minion crit node is much better than the other two spoiled nodes
gray moon
the wither node is op as well
midnight phoenix
Im not sure 70 multi is a good idea to put on stackable jewels at all
gray moon
30% chaos damage.. and it combos with the wither... so its a boss killer
this is legit stupid for other builds
midnight phoenix
The wither node is possibly interesting but not very strong
gray moon
"yes let me play a non summoner because i love crippling my own legs while minion builds will beat sirus 10 times by the time i reach tier 10 maps"
midnight phoenix
Converting minions alrdy get 100 conversion as easily as 70 and wither is qol not damage
Cos u always had wither anyway
The crit node is kinda concerning tho ngl
midnight phoenix
Especially if its not large jewel only
If i can spend money to actually give minions crit multi
That is a problem
deft girder
Do minion currently have cap chaos convert?
timid geyser
I'll some mathematical analysis on the crit node in a little bit for everyone who is curious
midnight phoenix
Sure, 100 same as everything else
Its 1.5% more dmg if u dont have any crit investment
U can do that in ur head
Oh wait no it isnt its a minion power charge lul
Its like 14% more dmg
deft girder
Its min power charge to minion so 3 nodes to cap. Power charge isn't hard to get anyways.
midnight phoenix
Thats uh
Problematic
Ye minion power charges are np
Minion multi is extremely difficult to get tho
sharp iron
Guys I'm looking at ascendancies and found something.
The "Instruments of Virtue" ascendancy ability gives "30% increased Spell Damage if you've Cast a Spell Recently, 50% increased attack Damage if you've cast a Spell recently"
With the new spellslinger notable, if you're holding a wand that makes it so attack damage modifers are converted into spell damage modifiers. So by combining these (which admitidly takes a lot of movement around the tree) you get 80% increased spell damage from this.
timid geyser
Correct, if you mean attack damage
deft girder
I guess the crit dmg part is the tasty part and the min charge is more like QoL.
native sonnet
isnt that the other way around?
gray moon
dunno why GGG hates attack builds this much lol
ember lodge
because spells are better
bright perch
one for attack to spell, one for spell to attack?
midnight phoenix
Wandslinger is the notable
deft girder
Oh yea there is that one unique that allows minion to poison.
sharp iron
I'm theorycrafting a Crown of the Inward Eye + Shadowstich + Spellslinger build that focuses around getting as much Life/Mana/Energy Shield as possible.
midnight phoenix
Wait sieg wheres that from
bright perch
@native sonnet where does that come from? that is super confusing
native sonnet
not me, days of redemption said it above
midnight phoenix
O ok
native sonnet
hence im trying to correct/clarify it
sharp iron
Oh
midnight phoenix
Anyway im looking at that minion jewel
And going ok well minions nerfed to the ground next league
To the actual fucking basement
Cos if they arent, see u at necro boys
bright perch
so wandslinger, the notable, converts spell %increased damage to attack %increased damage. And spellslinger, the support gem, can take the wand base attack damage and add it to the supported spell.
deft girder
Hope mine supports are left alone. Pyroclaust gonna get nerf probably.
gray moon
i dont mind the big buffs but when only one type of playstyle gets rewarded like this, its questionable
sour mountain
skeleton 30% phys to chaos... how good is that actually 🤔
royal gale
approximately 30% good
deft girder
Wither is nice.
sour mountain
can't use with brutality
is that the one i'm thinking of... the 'you only deal phys damage' one
deft girder
Poison skeleton. 
timid geyser
Also make it so you don't really need to double corrupt traid grips if you wanna do some 100% chaos skelies
storm crown
awakened chaos damge is gonna be pretty sweet with it
bright perch
@timid geyser well... due to conversion mechanics, with this notable and 3 white socked triads, you would need to leave them as 3 sockets though
deft girder
Idk if you can get multiple of it in one cluster jewel
deft girder
Errr nvm.
sour mountain
if this notable can spawn on smaller jewels, probably playable
but still.. ehhhhhhhh
also can't use with skelly wizzies 😦
timid geyser
Taking another look Feasting Fiends is really underwhelming.
I mean it is basically a minor node
sour mountain
feasting fiends is there for the lifedrain
since i don't think? you can really get great lifedrain on minions from tree atm? but i'm not sure
bright perch
2 small nodes
timid geyser
Yeah, and honestly it is pretty uncommon to need more than 1 of them
sour mountain
life leech is neato if you're playing something with infernal legion i think
buuuuut
bright perch
feasting fiends doesn't seem great, but the crit multi one is kinda strong right?
sour mountain
the other notables are kinda underwhelming
timid geyser
Yeah, crit one is strong
cursive widget
I️ really can’t foresee them doing NOTHING to minions, imagine how powerful they’d be if they didn’t nerf them AND we got all the new jewels...
sour mountain
power charges on minions give them a pretty meaty crit chance
you could in theory get tons of this notable and build a big dumb undying brawler
bright perch
well, the jewels wouldn't just add raw power, you would have to replace nodes you used before.
hard to say how much stronger these would make existing builds
sour mountain
having multiple copies of the Wither one might be ok
since you'll actuall get decent wither stacks once it's more than 10%
bright perch
to really take advantage of these you have to convert 100% though
which takes investment
sour mountain
i'm thinking of withering to boost your own damage maybe
karmic sphinx
scion assassin pf poison skellies Pog
bright perch
well, dunno if you would use a big minion wheel to support your own chaos spell
you would take a big minion wheel if you actually play a summoner
sour mountain
if you can get the jewel socket and the wither in the right spot maybe you'd be able to play it with only 4 passives
but... still spending a lot to get it
bright perch
maybe darc pact build exploding on skeletons, which actually makes use of minion scaling :D
midnight phoenix
The big question for me with the crit node
Is how easy will it be to stack 3 of them
bright perch
if they're large jewel only, pretty hard
timid geyser
So using 3x Vicious Bite on a skelie build just about doubles the damage. (assuming no other investment into crit besides kingmaker)
bright perch
if medium, fairly easy. Voices into 3 of em
storm crown
its not a bad nod but an abyssal jewel can be better..
midnight phoenix
Its about double dmg yeah
Not counting kingmaker, that shit is never active due to range
Like 85%?
bright perch
also we go by the assumption 1 cluster can only have 1 of the same notable right?
storm crown
think thats safe to asume 1 per cluster
timid geyser
Yeah, about 85%
storm crown
still seems like socks nodes and bonuses are 1 explicit on the jewels
dusty umbra
@bright perch probably but you can also probably have 3x of same notable from one outer jewel since large -> medium -> small
timid geyser
Go from a 1.015 effective damage multi to 1.84
midnight phoenix
Ye we were wondering whether its large cluster only
bright perch
yeah, some nodes might be locked to specific size
midnight phoenix
If so u would have to travel too far and its not worth stacking
storm crown
this cluster could have 1 more small node
bright perch
also how is the variance on cluster size? large seems to be 8-11, medium 5-7?
small ~3?
timid geyser
What I'm really interested in is vicious bite + rathpith globe necro aegis. main question is Does 140% increased damage + 140% crit chance even compare to decent minion wand.
storm crown
and small 3
storm crown
that is following the ingame clusters as well
timid geyser
Another thing to look out for is if minion build will be able to get a reliable way to apply brittle.
storm crown
depends how it procs but hatred aura adds cold damage
and there is a pair of gloves that also adds cold damage to minions
timid geyser
It is still based off normal ailment calculations so you need to deal enough damage to hit the ailment threshold.
So if the minions can apply brittle no problem. However I have a good feeling this won't be the case.
also the player dealing cold damage probably messed up EE unless you are doing spectres
storm crown
minions and ailments are rare
sour mountain
you dont need minions applying brittle
youd actually be better off causing the brittle and scorched yourself i think
timid geyser
It is still based off normal ailment calculations so you need to deal enough damage to hit the ailment threshold.
sour mountain
yeah, if you can is the rpoblem 😦
midnight phoenix
How many sources of minion base crit are there
timid geyser
Inc crit support is about the only thing.
midnight phoenix
Base crit
timid geyser
WIth that said minions have decent base crit chance
sour mountain
o
storm crown
5%?
sour mountain
wait soul wick is multi isnt it
midnight phoenix
Are there any other than assmark
sour mountain
is it chance or multi 🤔
timid geyser
Skelies have 7 5%
midnight phoenix
Souls wick is 1000% crit chance
timid geyser
solar guards and slave drivers have 6%
storm crown
zombies?
midnight phoenix
Skeletons are 5/130
Zombies also 5/130
Spectres vary
But all 130 multi i think
Ive not seen one with more base multi
Maybe theres a mob with powerful crits natively idk
timid geyser
No idea where I got 7% for skelies
sour mountain
the power charge is a big crit% too
storm crown
full brittle would ber like max crit 😛
timid geyser
Assassin's mark.
midnight phoenix
Ye other than assmark i cant find anything
Bottled faith base crit is u only right
timid geyser
You can have flasks apply to minions somehow and use bottled faith 
storm crown
dex stacking with Mask of the Tribunal gives more multiplier
dunno how much dex you can give your animate guardian tho
timid geyser
Not enough to consider using it for that. Too many other helms that are just better for mr holy bear
timid geyser
Yeah, I'm just talking about using it for dex + crit multi
In a baron build it works well.
wild arch
Speaker's wreath?
timid geyser
Speaker's doesn't give dex to minions like baron gives str to them. Kinda what we are talking about in this use case.
wild arch
Oh
long hull
So if you kill monsters too fast in delirium state, do you lose anything before the fog expands?
patent canyon
who knows, not like we played the league
timid geyser
I'd assume not, but I'm not an alpha tester so how would I know.
last river
Holy shit second wind is amazing for bow clear
Especially TR
I think TR will be a fantastic choice for starting this league
karmic sphinx
mirror+ blink arrow traps
wild arch
unkempt notch
Second wind?
last river
Read the newest post in #old-game-news
Gives blink arrow an additional cooldown
Barring major changes that make something else amazing for starting, I think I'm gonna start this league as TR
wild arch
Those bow minions tho
unkempt notch
Ok that is nice
Not sure for clear because it's not like it lets your cool down go faster just let's you store it
wild arch
Yes it does
It also gives supported skills a small amount of Cooldown Recovery Speed as the gem levels, which is great for skills that usually have very little access to this bonus.
cursive widget
fuark
this new cooldown gems seems really good
gonna be even more zoom zoom to kitava now
small timber
Holy shit yes
last river
@unkempt notch Linear travel speed doesn't have much to do with clearspeed unless your damage skill is also your travel skill. Imo under ideal circumstances this basically halves your downtime where you're moving from pack to pack.
unkempt notch
Depends on the build I guess. Most bow build I've played kills so fast that blink arrow is always on cooldown so storing an extra charge wouldn't change much
cursive widget
double smoke mine dash to kitava I go
deft girder
Dash buff is really nice.
wintry sigil
Second wind mirror arrow ballista?!
deft girder
I always like dash better than smoke mine or flame dash but it needed lab enchant to be good.
bright perch
so... second wind with guard skills? € excludes instant skills... :(
torn isle
storing an extra charge does effectively give it slightly reduced cooldown though since iirc normal skills only go on cooldown until after the skill has activated, whereas giving it charges lets it recharge immediately.
unkempt notch
Interesting
wanton rivet
i dont like second wind its going to be mandatory for all the movement skills that it can support
gray moon
blink arrow finally worth using
although dash might be bettter
depedning on how much travel distance it gains
torn isle
second wind will hardly be mandatory for flame dash.
gray moon
it'll be mandatory for blink arrow
unkempt notch
I was a big fan of dash with bow because I would blink arrow into bad places where I get booty blasted too much
gray moon
we might be able to use just dash alone
torn isle
more importantly, blink/mirror arrow builds buff?
gray moon
lets hope for that because dash is pretty freaking good
blink arrow cast speed is still there
which is kinda awful imho
torn isle
or you can trap the blink arrows. :x
unkempt notch
Imo they should give blink arrow no cooldown but give it less projectile speed on the gem so you have to invest to make it good
deft girder
Dash felt really nice on mine trap build if you dont like moving the mouse too much.
Like me. Im lazy with mouse movement.
gray moon
there should be just more dex based movement skills
last river
tbh I think the only place where movement skills are truly "bad" right now is wanders
torn isle
trying to remember what other non-instant key skills with cooldown there are...
unkempt notch
Really? Wanders have shield charge fortify now
timid geyser
Aren't most movement skills dex based?
torn isle
no...?
timid geyser
I should rephrase that a bit. But there are more dex based movement skills vs str or int based.
unkempt notch
Whrilong blades, cyclone, flicker, blink arrow dash
torn isle
you've the spell based ones which are all int based, and you've the leap/shield which are str based..
last river
Oh true, I guess they're fine too then
gray moon
we're talking about movement related to travel
last river
Forgot that wanders had SC now
gray moon
not cyclone
deft girder
Smoke mine isnt the most reliable movement skill beside 30% movement buff.
timid geyser
Withering step, smoke mine, whirling blades, blink arrow, dash, flicker (kinda)
deft girder
60% with lab is sexy though.
gray moon
you cant count flicker strike lol
deft girder
Body swap is movement. 
bright perch
consecrated path too
bright perch
and... new baran runes thing?
deft girder
People normally use something that can jump over stuff.
torn isle
yes the new runes thing is technically movement, but eh.
latent wharf
Just read the new post... 350 new spectres types ??? No typo here ?
torn isle
Also charged dash for dex.
timid geyser
Even then that is 4 dex based movement skills. you have like 3 int ones and 2 str ones
torn isle
new spectre types probably means all those enemies unique to special instances that were normally not spectreable probably are spectreable now.
latent wharf
Yeah but I don't even know if there are 350 different types of ennemies in the game
deft girder
Wick spectre! 
latent wharf
That's a huge number
gray moon
its 4 dex movement but each one of them is for one build archetype basically
latent wharf
If it's true that's impressive
gray moon
meanwhile int spells are just 3 similar movement
str doesnt even need anything anyway
leap slam too good
torn isle
int has 4. bodyswap, lightning watp, frostblink,, and flame dash
timid geyser
bodyswap doesn't count assuming flicker doesn't count.
rugged locust
oh oh does this mean you can stick it in an autocast wand with contagion?
torn isle
bodyswap no longer requires corpses.
storm crown
Frostblink now deals damage and places chilled ground thats quite big
timid geyser
It requires an enemy or a corpse
rugged locust
the new support
wide dirge
i personally feel like their latest change to movement skill didn't do anything for blink arrow
wintry sigil
#buffclones
wide dirge
everything is better, so what makes blink arrow better than literally any other movement skill?
deft girder
Gib blink arrow more projectile speed.
wide dirge
just dash twice
storm crown
Frostblink with them gloves
gray moon
i think i'll just use dash alone
if its double the travel distance for dash, it makes it 100% better than blink arrow
wide dirge
literally the only thing that BA is better than dash is that it can travel through ledge/gaps etc
torn isle
eh fine. Though bodyswap is sufficiently abuseable regardless, ever since desecrate no longer has charges. or cooldown
deft girder
Dash was bad for getting over gaps. The distance buff basically solve that issue and render blnk really bad.
gray moon
instant cast with built in charges
midnight phoenix
Blink arrow has much more than twice the jump distance of dash fwiw
gray moon
ye but you only need a marginal amount to actually dodge stuff
which was the problem for dash
midnight phoenix
Dash had 2 problems
deft girder
You needed lab to make dash good.
midnight phoenix
- Its useless at dodging things
- Its nearly useless at crossing gaps
More distance will likely solve 1
gray moon
we'll have to talk when we see how much distance it gains
torn isle
doesn't LW have the largest distance regardless?
gray moon
cause its pointless without the numbers
midnight phoenix
It may well not get 2 to the same point as the really good distance travelers
tender tusk
we'll just have to wait
midnight phoenix
LW smokemine and blink are all the same distance
As the top tier of distance moveskills
tender tusk
all have pretty significant downsides though
torn isle
I'd say bodyswap is probably the best distance traveller if you can proc desecrate at the same time, but yes. 😛
deft girder
Smoke mine distance is 35 units
midnight phoenix
Not talking downsides, evee asked about distance
tender tusk
yeah fair
but flame dash will still probably be preferable for lategame content
bc instant dash matters a lot
gray moon
dash higher level has pretty high dex requirement so having that be good for dex based characters shouldnt be a bad thing
gray moon
its not gonna be used by everyone
deft girder
Smokemine has way more range than dash.
wide dirge
and there is no support gem that can increase the distance of the movement skill
tender tusk
yeah
torn isle
distance specifically for crossing gaps mostly, secondarily for travelling through maps, but yes.
tender tusk
it just gives more options from what it looks life
for levelling, dash might be the best option
tender tusk
again, depending on when it gets distance
wide dirge
do we know how much distance we are getting?
tender tusk
no
wide dirge
double at 20?
gray moon
no
deft girder
Hopefully its double at 20.
torn isle
it's probably closer to 50% than double most likely.
wide dirge
dash empower league
gray moon
50% would be pretty low honestly
considering that the travel distance is already low
that would be another like... 10 units
dash would keep being garbage
wide dirge
if it's at least double from 1, i'm ready to buy 21/23 dash
gray moon
the distance is gonna increase with level
so its probably only gonna be worth getting at level 20
deft girder
Lab enchant double dash range to get more range.
tender tusk
the issue with using it at 20 is that you're doing bosses at 20
Where the instant cast of flame dash matters a lot
wide dirge
that's a helm enchant right?
torn isle
lab enchant dash double cast speed?
deft girder
Dash is instant, it has that travel animation.
torn isle
double travel speed then. :X
torn isle
also fairly sure dash isn't considered instant, otherwise it woldn't be usable with second wind.
torn isle
second wind specifically doesn't work with instants.
deft girder
I misread 150 for 15.
gray moon
but it doesnt have increased cast speed with each use
so you'll always have that same cast speed
tender tusk
yeah
deft girder
Does the dash animation have iframes?
tender tusk
i don't see dash being lategame viable
gray moon
i dont agree, dash is gonna be dope if they add at least double travel distance
i can see myself using it
midnight phoenix
Nothing in poe has any iframes
tender tusk
it'll be fine if you're using it for movement
midnight phoenix
Except for vms which gives 10 seconds of iframes
tender tusk
if you're using it to avoid shit it's gonna be painful
gray moon
how?
deft girder
It nice for breaking animation with minefield and using it several times.
gray moon
if you're dying in 0.15, i doubt any skill is gonna help at that point
gray moon
unless you are able to react with VMS
torn isle
Cast on death maybe has iframes but no one would know. :V
deft girder
Dead frames. 
storm crown
hate being stunned as you try to cast it
hasty perch
"Dash now gains travel distance as it levels, and works particularly well with Second Wind to be able to travel long distances in a short time." damn dash is looking really nice , i've played with the dash distance enchant once for lulz and it was already fun
torn isle
I mean, the enemy cannot interrupt cast on death, can they?
torn isle
then again, reduced duration on lightning warp is practically mandatory...
hasty perch
yeah
deft girder
But you can socket the support for it. You cant with dash.
hasty perch
frostblink looks like an actually playable memebuild now btw
with dealing damage twice
midnight phoenix
Helm enchant still likely mandatory
Not gonna lie
Reduced duration has screwy scaling
torn isle
you sorta can now with second wind. :V
storm crown
frostblink procs the league gloves
midnight phoenix
The more u have the better it gets
hasty perch
i had a PoB for a frostblink assassin and it looked sorta playable
midnight phoenix
Up to the cap
hasty perch
might even be "good" as a clearspeed skill
torn isle
but is frostblink better than just bodyswapping?
midnight phoenix
U would need a shitton of aoe to clear with it
hasty perch
killing two packs in a frostblink and getting both reduced cooldown
idk now that it damages on arrival too
midnight phoenix
Might be doable, worth looking at i guess
deft girder
Hope dash quality gets the same distance buff. Abit small.
gray moon
CDR is good enough for quality
deft girder
Dimishing return on meme stacking quality.
midnight phoenix
The other thing is if dash gets more base distance
hasty perch
i'd be really happy if dash gets good , it's a skill i like a lot but sadly barely ever use outside of leveling due to low distance and 1 use
midnight phoenix
Lightning warp isnt gonna be the only moveskill with a mandatory helm enchant in that case
Cos the dash distance enchant is REALLY good
Its just stapled to a shit skill rn so nobody uses it
hasty perch
you could already do nearly the whole distance from your character to the side of the screen on dash with enchant
so it's really the added CD and second use
CDR*
torn isle
also... frostblink totem meta?
hasty perch
frostblink assassin looking like a solid league starter
dusky cobalt
so whats gonna be meta this league? minions again?
hasty perch
totally not going to regret it
well you can make minions crit for a shit ton of damage
now
so unless they gut them by more than half
they're stronger than before with the notables we're getting
dusky cobalt
SRS can crit too?
torn isle
or maybe frostblink traps/mines, since it technically hits twice per cast.
gray moon
cant really talk about meta without patch notes lol
minions could have been actually nerfed to the ground
(i hope)
torn isle
When is minions ever not meta?
dusky cobalt
^
hasty perch
with the notable to make them crit and perma full power charge
they're going to need a SUPER big nerf
to be weaker
hasty perch
still better than self cast
the worst part of this joke
is that with auras it might be the case with crit
torn isle
I'm sure people can make 1 damage minions still work regardless. V:
hasty perch
generosity wrath anger
gray moon
the fact that minions block damage for you so you dont have to dodge some attacks is huge itself
hasty perch
can't wait to see how hilariously high damage minions can get with stacking the 70% crit multi notable
oh look my zombie is dealing more damage than your build
torn isle
If anything, reducing the damage efficiency of minions would be way larger of a nerf than reducing their base damage.
fairly sure notables can't be stacked regardless.
hasty perch
deleting mistress of sacrifice would be nice too
storm crown
notables are stackable
torn isle
do we have confirmation on that?
torn isle
aren't minions already dealing millions depending on build..?
hasty perch
they're not free but summoners are probably the less node starved builds in the game
a lot of them even allow themselves to go in marauder area to get more life
gray moon
well the skill gems related to minions itself deal more damage than anything
hasty perch
they've got points for days
gray moon
probably why they dont have to pick every damage node on tree
storm crown
taking out 20 points from strenght per gem is gonna reduce strenght alot
midnight phoenix
I still am not 100% sure that this node, or any other for that matter, isnt restricted to only large nodes etc
hasty perch
and the small passives with the notable give damage
you won't play this on str stack build tbh
torn isle
fairly sure each notable is restricted to each node cluster size.
hasty perch
baron is most likely nerfed with what we saw recently and the "leak" we had last month i think
storm crown
its gonna be diffrent builds
hasty perch
even with size you're looking at 360% crit multi minions
add in a kingmaker animate guardian
and you've got 400% damage
hasty perch
k then 360 if you want
midnight phoenix
The minion crit thing is still good tho
hasty perch
it's still a ton more damage
midnight phoenix
Im certainly sold on the idea
Esp for specters
Theres a few spectres that have more than 5 base crit i just cant find a list rn cos it isnt on poedb
storm crown
normal mobs still gets gibed by the smash
bright perch
I wonder what will be better for those clusters: More effects for the small nodes, or more notables.
torn isle
aren't there any shields which would help with crits?
midnight phoenix
Well id def rather have another effect than that shitty leech node
storm crown
less notables means the small nodes will get more effects like life, increased effect mod etc
torn isle
Yes, so yo basically want either all notables, or all effects.
hasty perch
it's all about if the added effect outweights the notable
tender tusk
If youre only chasing one notable, you wanna buff the shit outta the small ones
torn isle
how small can a non-unique small cluster be?
hasty perch
it looks hard to outweight good notables and impossible to outweight cluster jewels , except for the life% and chaos 5% multi small nodes
tender tusk
3 nodes I think
storm crown
geting a large 12 cluster with 1 notable and 11 small modes and geting like 25% increased modes, +7 life and +10 energy sheild
hasty perch
can be good but only on some bases yeah
torn isle
also offhanded irony: it takes more points for scion to actually reach the outer nodes than the more focused classes, despite scion being the jack of all trades.
storm crown
if you have melee damage or minion damage nodes its 10% damage base
hasty perch
second dose of irony : it's a broken jewel league and scion is the worst choice for them
bright perch
well, scion can use any starting position, so not really :)
torn isle
using any starting position requires more ascendancy points first. 😛
storm crown
probly not gonna go for clusters before lvl 16 anyway
bright perch
but scion also gets more passives than any other class
slender temple
They start in the middle tho
hasty perch
a shame ascendant's classes feel like 1/4 of a class' power
slender temple
However you can start from another start point once you finish lab
tender tusk
Respec latet
torn isle
also ponders new scion ascendancy class: no jack of all trades notables, but outright granting outer clusters.
tender tusk
If I did a scion ATM I would just put all my points into the new class start
sour mountain
New scion ascendancy: gemling. It just buffs gems.
midnight phoenix
Ye exactly
sour mountain
And jewels
midnight phoenix
Cos then im just as close to the edge as everyone else
But i have 5 more passives
tender tusk
p much
torn isle
or basically, grant 4 outer cluster nodes and 4 additional skill points, let the player build from that
tender tusk
you basically use a medium jewel as an ascendacny node
torn isle
separately, hope orb of regrets will be easier to obtain this league. 😛
tender tusk
i normally end up with a pile of regrets
snow cairn
you don't need regrets for speccing out of cluster jewel nodes @torn isle
just the keystones
tender tusk
but you'd have other nodes allocated before you got the jewel
but that's a one time thing
torn isle
even then we might want to alter our skill tree to adjust to the clusters we find. 😛
lucid stone
Does second wind work with skills from items?
wild arch
Depends on if spells like that even exist
lucid stone
Bone Nova for example.
I have a particular skill in mind but it's probably still bad. ówò
wild arch
Bone nova?
lucid stone
From Uul-Netol axe
wild arch
Seems like it could 🤔
lucid stone
How much cdr we talkin about
sharp iron
My feelings towards the Spectre system in PoE is my feeling towards the lootables of items you can get by Pickpocketing in Final Fantasy games. I appreciate the large amount of work that was put into them but ultimately I don't see myself using that mechanic.
lucid stone
Oh RIP it doesnt work with triggered skills
wild arch
Would it add one more charge to unleash spells?
zealous monolith
Can someone explain the movement skill changes in simple terms for me?
hasty perch
they're making unused movement skills better
to make them more on par with good ones
and added a gem giving one more charge to skills
with cooldown
so 2 uses of dashes
with a 2L
or 4 of flamedash
quartz wraith
Aka just making them faster? :^)
tiny flint
no
zealous monolith
Flamedash isn't getting nerfed according to those notes, right?
zealous monolith
fuck
Flame Dash and Leap Slam are the only movement skills I can use at my ping that don't rubberband like crazy
zealous monolith
I just saw a video of ziz using shield charge and was like... damn this skill looks so good at good ping.
torn isle
Also rats
vast gazelle
all i want to know
is does these changes let frostblink shotgun
because if it does i might know a meme build i wanna do
thick tiger
@zealous monolith make sure you are playing in the closest realm to you, there is usualy at least 1 realm with less than 100 ping
also shield charge is better with more attack speed, move speed and higher gem level, when you first get it, it feels bad
zealous monolith
Not for me. The closest available realm to me is region locked.
I'm a European expat in China, and you need a Chinese SSN to play on their realms. Not that I'd want to, given their p2w business model.
leaden bane
Use vpn lul
zealous monolith
Seeing as Discord is blocked there, you get three guesses as to what I'm doing.
zealous monolith
Best ping I can get is around ~180. Often spikes much higher.
thick tiger
ouch, i’m sorry you have to play with that
native sonnet
is that with jp/sg?
leaden bane
@zealous monolith just go back to EU
zealous monolith
yeah Jpn, Sg and Cali all give me about the same ping
fringe umbra
Do the patch notes come 3 days before actual league start
zealous monolith
Wednesday
fringe umbra
ok
zealous frost
Essentially you have 48 hrs between patch notes and league start.
copper kernel
pretty much
bronze cave
Don't you have 72 hours?
Patchnotes are on wednesday NZ time and league is on saturday NZ time
@fringe umbra Patchnotes are tuesday NA time, which is 3 days before league start
storm crown
That skitterbot ring 😱
torn isle
what skitterbot ring?
storm crown
torn isle
aaah, so basically a free blasphemy curse.
copper kernel
"free"
wild arch
Second wind isn't gonna work with triggers right?
frank hound
probably not
it doesn't sound like its intended use
The new Second Wind support adds an additional cooldown count to skills that already have a cooldown (excluding instant or triggered skills)
so no triggered skills
not sure about triggers itself
wild arch
Shockwave was so close to being useable 
sour mountain
i was gonna say like... second wind flicker
but thats probably awful
but if you aren't playing second wind greater cascade greater spell echo frost bomb you are a terrorist
torn isle
Someone suggested arcmage brands, then second wind brand recall to make them permanent.
copper kernel
except that wont work
torn isle
does it not?
copper kernel
excluding instant or triggered skills
frank hound
brand recall will work actually
torn isle
could've sword I saw a cast time, nm then
frank hound
I think..
I'm not sure if by instant they mean instant cast time
or instant as in instant cooldown so no cd
torn isle
fairly sure it means instant cast time
copper kernel
yeah
frank hound
wouldn't it be a weird limitation
copper kernel
no
frank hound
for example you can't use it with dash
torn isle
dash has a cast time
frank hound
it does?
compact junco
yes, frostblink is the instant one
frank hound
hm..
copper kernel
its clearly intended to work only with movement skills
frank hound
in my mind it just made more sense to restrict it from being used with things that have no cooldown to begin with
because...welll
it'd be stupid
torn isle
it already can't be used with spells with no cooldown.
it's meant to be used on spells with cooldown to give them an extra charge.
compact junco
so there will probably be some uses for it
you can get extra froswall charges with it as well for waht its worth
torn isle
also warcries.
frank hound
that is a good point
torn isle
also golems, if that's relevant. :v
wide totem
It feels like they are subtly pushing warcries every patch
compact junco
well it is when they die :d
frank hound
well yeah
if you have 9 golems it sucks to resummon them
but you're not going to use that gem
compact junco
well you can if you are using them just for buffs
in like 6link, even though I would still rather just use meat shield
frank hound
yep
frank hound
you know
one day they will somehow make that incredibly broken
and noone will know
torn isle
also cold snap
last river
Any reason to use the new ring over mark of submission? I think I'd always take either of the skitterbots over 3 levels on a single curse
last river
Are there builds that don't hit at all anymore?
There's rf I guess. Does RF even use skitterbots though?
copper kernel
bane?
last river
Bane is not a main skill and also you're applying 2 curses with it anyway
Typically if you're using a dot you're at the very least applying the dot with a hit
torn isle
Also in a sense, summoner builds, since you're not the one hitting. 😛
compact junco
and also neither bane or blight hits. from chaos dots only like TR and ED have actual hit component
barren crescent
Soulrend hits as well
barren crescent
Soulrend decay isnt even half bad
hoary snow
odds of Charged Dash being good?
I think it's a very fun skill to use but the last time I touched it was several leagues back, kinda hankering to try it again
autumn snow
patent canyon
its playable if you slap inpulsa or splody chest and use anything else for single target
gilded kelp
brothers if i link bane and dispair in poet pen. will the bane apply dispair to the monsters?
slender temple
People have mained charged dash
Poe watch I think if you check there are some level 97+ people with it as main link
It's weird way to play it's like slingshot
With short range
wild arch
I've always wanted to try an RF build but when I finally decided to do it they nerfed the shit out of it
patent canyon
you can pretend to have friend while playing it, just hit something and then heal them with rf
wild arch
Is death's oof any decent?
copper kernel
not amazing
wild arch
Considering that we're gonna have access to more chaos multi
How many days until the node reveal .-.
patent canyon
wild arch
So Monday
patent canyon
ye
wild arch
Anyone got a spare time machine?
wet plaza
RF wasn't really nerfed it was mostly the monster buffs
It realistically got buffed with fire dot multi
wild arch
I need to know if there are any good ignite nodes 
wet plaza
POB > search tree for ignite ggez
wild arch
Would be nice to have loads of faster ignite ticking
For... ethical reasons
Wait a minute
We have mods for hits, poisons and bleeds to deal double damage
But nothing for ignite
gray zealot
u want double dmg for ignite get double ignite
wild arch
Where's my ignite crimson dance 
That shit slows down the burn massively
``Under ideal conditions two active ignites burning 50% slower can be interpreted as 33% more damage per second by the formula.
Under worst conditions one active ignite burning 65% slower can be interpreted as 40% less damage per second by the formula.``
``
If your ignites aren't ridiculously strong already, your clear suffers from that ring
wet plaza
The ring is pretty garbage don't ever use that in its state
wild arch
I want the old version back in a keystone or something
Make it work on melee only and suddenly melee ignite isn't useless
terse sinew
Ggg traumatized from pre 3.0
wild arch
Or maybe they could turn it into a node behind AoF like they did with blood magic
Mostly to prevent shit like EE abuse
patent canyon
ee is a lot of damage for ignite builds tho
wet plaza
how is it abuse