after doing some paper math
#1┃mirage-league
midnight phoenix
If u play warcry zerker ur fingers will straight up lead a revolution against their cruel overlords
In addition to any build power issues
sharp iron
If you get the same notable twice using the passive tree + an amulet annointment, that doesn't give you the stats of both. So I don't see a reason why it would let you benefit from triple Cry Wolf notables.
vast berry
they confrimed you can stack them
anyway
this comes out not fantastic
and for zerker, they actually have decent node locations for this tuff
so it doesnt really cut out travel
deft girder
Doubt you can annoit jewel notables.
vast berry
me too
deft girder
I do hope we can annoit the new notables from 3.8
I want to run templar attack totem and annoit the two +1 totem on the bottom right. (Either gloves or chest blight)
untold dragon
My favorite part about Delirium notables is you have to look at them once, think about how good they could be... then you have to look again and ask, "how good would 5 of these be?"
vast berry
@coarse moon so anyway didnt really turn out
obviously there would be some small node affixes
which end up like, 60 total resists
and 60 base life
eternal laurel
just saw new skills - is this offiicially a Wander league?
vast berry
ideal
vast berry
my math make sense?
coarse moon
ya
vast berry
i suppose that is all assuming only 1 target nearby
and 60 ele resist is non-negligible
but that would be expensive anyway
that pastebin i posted
has the jewel and a tree
for warcry
actually that tree doesnt even have the warcry nodes lmfao
next epoch
@sharp iron That's true because the anointment refers to the exact same node on the tree that you've already allocated. The Delirium notables are separate nodes with the same name
vast berry
@coarse moon alright dont know if you care
but IF WE ASSUME that cry wolf can exist on small nodes
it improves
using that unique large with the 3 sockets
comes to 25 points, 19.65% increased and 4.04% AS per point
coarse moon
as in, the small jewels can also get cry wolf?
vast berry
ye
vast berry
also im realizing
the way this scales
is to skip all % increased and attack speed elsewhere
cus we get absolute shitloads from rage and warcries
vast berry
ye that is pretty good damage per point
the problem is
im forced to travel for life ANYWAY
so it kinda
doesnt save a lot
vast berry
like
coarse moon
just play 1 hp xd
vast berry
i go over to
the sword crit node
to get the cold conversion and that life
so its literally 1 dex to get to the sword
well ok this might work
so thats version 2
maybe it can work
gray zealot
spellslinger + power siphon + discharge anyone?
naive forum
I was wondering myself if power siphon becomes way good now
vast gazelle
it was last league tbh
unkempt notch
Whos talking about spellslinger... looks sooo cool
ivory shore
socket spellsinger in a poet pen, link with deaecrate and VD, that mean he will proc twice ?
swift pagoda
no
violet nymph
s 🅱️ ell slinger
slender temple
Instance melter
true nova
so spellslinger is basically 'cast two spells at once'?
next epoch
and turn attack wands into caster wands
violet nymph
While wandslinger node turns spell damage to attack damage :^)
so you scale both so long as you do flat via wands, and spell damage elsewhere
timid geyser
For what spell?
deft girder
One of the 3 physical spells. 
wild arch
Dark pact still exists
100% added damage effectiveness, 6% of your hp as damage, and 78% more damage with ailments
Then again going disintegrator instead is probably better
cunning blade
deft girder
Death oath might be intresting with the cluster jewels.
static ingot
Regarding the new unique jewel that changes the elemental ailments effects (chill to sap, e.t.c.)
Anywhere i can look this up specifically on what they do and how they function?
patent canyon
first result of google search
timid geyser
Just note the wording is off a bit on the wiki page for scorched. It is lowered not reduced.
timid geyser
If enemies resistances are in negatives values reduced would actually end up increasing it.
increased/reduced are essentially multipliers to enemies resistances. Rather than lowered which is just -#%
storm crown
Wow The double negatives
velvet palm
There's lowered, reduced and less and all are radically different 
storm crown
Have noticed 😂
wild arch
Never really considered it, but is it technically possible to double dip on strength scaling with iron grip and iron will?
gray zealot
it should be possible now? if spell dmg scales attacks
storm crown
Is wand spell an projectile attack?
gray zealot
wand attacks are wand attacks, and coincidentally all are also projectiles
wand spells are nonexistant
storm crown
Should double dip then
river narwhal
Does projectile damage even scale kB explosions
velvet palm
Probably
wild arch
midnight phoenix
It is very difficult to double dip
cunning blade
any info if spellslinger added damage would apply to dots too?
velvet palm
Isn't it based on the gem's tags
midnight phoenix
U need to use the gloves
gray zealot
by googling found a thread from 2016, "That post goes in to how IW, IG and strength bonus interact. Basically there is no double dipping. If you use Iron Grip to increase physical projectile attacks then Iron Will with CoE will only increase any non-physical attack damage you have (ie. added cold damage)." regarding IG, IW and Crown of Eyes
velvet palm
Lame
gray zealot
river narwhal
It's not just based on tags
wild arch
Ok so just indigon wander it is then
gray zealot
sounds good
river narwhal
Like the projectile that causes the explosion doesn't get scaled by area damage
gray zealot
throw spell slinger on and farm with blade fall
wild arch
Eeeh
gray zealot
or is blade fall not projectiles
gray zealot
well shouldnt matter isnt iron grip only attack projectiles
storm crown
Reading The tooltip of them both Iron Will and Iron grip it just states that str bonus applies to The affected tag
storm crown
Iron Will turns str into spell damage no point of Iron grip
wild arch
Was wondering if having both would double dip
storm crown
With The wording it has it just enables str affecting The tag
storm crown
Reading The tooltip it should be a no on double doping. But then again understanding what i read isnt my forte
velvet palm
smite and ignite was a neat album
red wharf
with Spellslinger, would you use wand attack only to trigger dmg spells, or to do actually dmg, or are both approaches feasible?
patent canyon
the zappy bolt scales of spell damage so its really feasable to do damage with both
and if you want to do damage with spells it would be better to just do wand CoC
gray zealot
if u scale spell/element/phys% it should be possible to scale anything
AoF might be good
rugged knoll
I'm not sure if this is answered somewhere already, but if you socket one with nothing for hollow palm technique, can you just get another one with nothing and get a second hollow palm technique?
patent canyon
keystones dont stack
rugged knoll
aight
slim sun
Has any1 heard anything about the new monsters not having bodies/corpses to explode from ?
patent canyon
the trailer showed after death mechanic already so i bet they will have corpses
slim sun
Okay nice 😃 explody chest lives
wild arch
Who needs that when you got explody notable
Spellslinger could be really strong for spells that hit multiple times per cast thanks to scaling them with the wand attack damage on top
feral forge
i would assume theextra wand attack damage is subject to added damage efficiency
low kindle
Explode notable doesn't proliferate
feral forge
just like and other sources of added damage
cursive widget
explodey chest is still better than devastator
much better
BUT
explodey chest + devastator is where it's at hehe
I could imagine you can use the explodey notable (devastator) when leveling and farming up for an explodey chest and it should make mapping with something like cyclone a little more fun
also if you wanted to do something like double strike, devastator would make it so you might not have to rely on haemophilias
not sure about that one though
autumn snow
cursive widget
@autumn snow yep agreed, which is why I think the best move would be to use it temporarily until you can get an explodey chest
peak terrace
wasnt it 15%
timid geyser
Yeah, 15% chance to deal 10% of life
dusky urchin
Is the meta going to be bossing or clear do people think?
vale hollow
Balanced more towards bossing, imho
spice cipher
Both
vale hollow
so you should go for something that clears fast
but can at least boss
if your build has passable clear and good bossing potential, that's probably the sweetspot
something like brands would prob be very safe for bossing, and clear really well
spice cipher
Maybe
I think it depends on what you are doing cause it’s pretty versatile it seems
vale hollow
you mean about brands or something else?
spice cipher
About clear or boss league
radiant lance
I would lean towards needing a capable all-rounder
You need to have good enough clear to get to the encounters that you have juiced by delirium whilst also having good enough bossing potential to withstand those juiced encounters/bosses
static ingot
Any news about nerfs/buffs out yet?
heard a lot of cries for help about necromancer being op but seeing no actual evidence yet
wet plaza
nerfs are communicated with patch notes mostly those are in about a week
skeleton and zombos are pretty strong rn
wild arch
The manifesto that comes out a day or two before patch notes usually covers the biggest buffs and nerfs
Looking forward to the disco floor skill reveal
weak berry
y'all got any more of them spoilers scratches neck
patent canyon
i can arrange 24h mute if you want to speed up the wait
weak berry
?
patent canyon
no asking for leaks nor sharing that has not officially been shown
weak berry
Good to see this discord is still shit and doesn't understand what a joke is. Hit me with that mute bby
frigid holly
So, it looks to me as though the spell-slinger support might be a good alternative to other mechanisms for casting spells soley to set up EE. How do you guys think that approach would compare to current ones (like cast on attack craft on weapon for instance)?
unkempt notch
Depends on what your Mana economy is like. 15% Mana reserved is better than other options if you can spare it.
peak terrace
but 15% is base i believe was said
so if u put it in a six link and buff it all up
it might jump to like30-40
i believe at least
which would in return start limiting u on auras
prime narwhal
yeah but that isn't relevant to a spell that is cast only to set up ee
violet nymph
Can set up EE, can set up coh as well
timid geyser
Yeah, most support gems you have are going to be at least 1.3 mcm. which would put it at 2.8 mcm or 42% reserved mana on a 6L
weak warren
Finally !
hasty perch
that's why i plan on going the assassin route
get 8 power charge
and use PCoC which has a tiny mana multi
to get more spellslinger stuff going
gray swan
Man I really want more teasers lol. I thought the Lightning Spire trap from the Menagerie screen shot was the new skill. 😦
weak berry
Hey man you can't just ask for more teasers like that you'll get muted
eternal laurel
I guess I’m missing the point with spellslinger. Why would I reserve mana to self cast a spell? And sure you can trigger multiple but normally I just have a single spell with support links..no?
rugged locust
it's basically like sacrificing auras to cast two spells at once
or sacrificing less auras to cast one spell and one utility spell that lets the first one do more damage
also am I misunderstanding something or does wrath double dip on a lightning spellslinger setup? it gives different effects to attacks and spells
timid geyser
No
Wrath gives more spell damage. Spell slinger alone causes increases to spell damage to apply to attacks.
coarse moon
that’s wandslinger
coarse moon
spellslinger however does not apply the flat lightning from wrath to spells
compact junco
spellslinger is local weapon damage
coarse moon
bc ye what db just said lmao
rugged locust
wrath gives additional flat damage to attacks, spellslinger gives weapon base damage to spells
compact junco
flat from other sources is not local
rugged locust
oof
bright perch
well, if you are just talking about wrath applying to both the attack used to trigger spellslinger and the spell triggered by spellslinger being affected by wrath, you're correct
rugged locust
how about howa? also added?
rugged locust
there's at least two sources of howa mods for wands though
coarse moon
the coil?
compact junco
yeah
coarse moon
nah
timid geyser
Errr, int mod shouldn't apply unless they changed how those mods work.
coarse moon
ryslatha adjusts the numbers after summation I’m pretty sure
compact junco
double rip then
timid geyser
Yeah, mark even went over it in the thread with the int mod (poet's pen in this example) https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/fclqyb/questions_thread_march_03_2020/fjc9jda/
I love mark ❤️
coarse moon
oh wow that’s actually such a good way to think about it
timid geyser
Yeah, howa used to be just add flat lightning damage instead of to this weapon.
So that alone kinda made me figure it wouldn't apply as a local mod.
frigid holly
Hey, clarification question (triggered by the new wand skill) - does 'increases and decreases to spell damage apply to this skill' include mods of the form 'more spell damage' as well as 'increased spell damage' ? (I'm really asking about spells that already have that, and assuming similar usage in new Delerium skills will behave the same)
woven kite
Ok this is a really nooby question about the new delirium jewel system - do you have to spend passive points to unlock the stuff from the different jewels or does it give you extra points to use on them?
cursive widget
wew this viscious skewering notable looks goood
storm crown
you dont get more points you just extend the passive tree
storm crown
its probly 1 notable thats both swords and axes
coarse moon
i dig bloodscent tbh
cursive widget
these jewels starting to look insane
coarse moon
just faster rage generation
cursive widget
or you can just free up a gem slot
storm crown
the jewels needs to be good
woven kite
@cinder star Ok so you still have to spend your points on the new jewels passives etc, thats correct yes?
storm crown
yes you need to
cinder star
lucid stone
Dont impale + bleed scale separately?
compact junco
you usually just get random chance to bleed from regular nodes
lucid stone
If theyre doing some wacky bleed + impale scaling I'm in.
compact junco
its just impale node with weird (but most irrelevant) condition, those 2 do not work together
or well, i guess you need to cap your bleed chance, but that should not be hard
lucid stone
I hope they do something like make bleed calculations also use impale damage.
I know it's reflect dangit
wild arch
I mean, they both scale with physical damage
And going for something like impale/bleed champion doesn't sound that bad
cursive widget
that's what i'm probably gonna do
and now you can use bloodscent, and stack on rage too
storm crown
double banner chest is gonna be nuts
tawny pasture
cooldown is 1 sec
slender temple
But will you be able to sustain beserk with it ?
spice cipher
no
slender temple
Right but can you extend it a bit or is rage generation still paused when you beserk
swift terrace
Hey, guys. Do i remember correctly that small nodes inside new jewels will cost no regret points? I cant find source of where i first hear it
swift terrace
I just remember SOMEONE from devs or close-to-devs saying that specificly small nodes will not cost points
next epoch
Yes, I remember that as well. I'm pretty sure we've been told that you can unspec the added nodes for free. Consider that, if you had to regret the added nodes, you could end up with jewels "locked" into your tree
next epoch
(I don't remember offhand how respec works for other meta jewels like Intuitive Leap or Thread of Hope though, maybe "locked" jewels aren't a concern)
brazen arch
In Path of Exile: Delirium, we're adding a stash to The Menagerie! <--- wasnt this always there?
storm crown
only need 1 regret orb per cluster
cursive widget
the only real reason I could see using bloodscent would be for bossing because by then time you fight the boss you can just use berserk if you are a non-zerker
so it would make champ cyclone impale even better at bossing lel
hasty perch
there's no reason not to use it if you're axe/sword tbh
if you play with rage it's a boost to your stacking speed
if you don't it's free massive attack damage/speed and movespeed for mapping
with the option to burn it up on bosses
rage is way too strong to be on a notable it's something that's ok on an ascendancy point
lucid stone
Does Berserk increase bleed damage
tawny pasture
Attack dmg
thick tiger
so with the new jewel trees, if i were to pull out the first jewel would i get my passives back,or would the jewel be immovable unless i use regrets
lucid stone
I think you have to respec it but it costs no points to respec the small nodes
storm crown
need 1 regret orb per jewel
weary vortex
You need 1 regret per jewel and Keystone
sharp iron
If you think about it, Anointment is actually getting slightly more powerful in Delirium. Because we're spending points on the Cluster Jewel passive tree extensions, we have less points to spend on the normal tree, making all of the normal notables a bit harder to get. So being able to anoint into them is more useful.
For example, if a build spends 8 passive points to build towards an outer jewel slot and then fill in the cluster they make with is, then they have 8 less points to be able to path towards Soul of Steel or Whispers of Doom. Which makes it more desirable to anoint into those notables instead.
lucid stone
shh shh
That's what I'm excited about.
I liked intuitive leap. Then we got unnatural instinct. I loved timeless jewels. Then we got anoints. Then we got thread of hope. Now we're getting even more tree messing-around stuff.
violet nymph
i wish there was a way to be more direct with ggg about suggestions
though if there was a way literally everyone would be doing it
lucid stone
HEY GGG PLEASE MAKE BOOTLEG EXPLOSIVES UNIQUE
violet nymph
lol
in this context i'm referring to my idea for a targetfarming orb that would replace seals
and work kinda like elder orb
lucid stone
Why not make a unique watchstone that makes it so maps don't disappear when used while the watchstone has charges?
But make it not work with unique maps
violet nymph
what the hell
that'd be broken
get yourself a beyond/nemesis map
beyond/currency/rare/packs sextants
money for 3 maps
take the map out
get sextants again
repeat until watchstone is gone
lucid stone
It should make it so you can't take the map out
So that you can't use the map up til the last charge and then get a new watchstone
violet nymph
that's just...
i don't think i'd like that much lol
and i don't think it'd be a very fun solution
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/fd7grt/elderslayers_orb_the_replacement_for/ this is the idea i had
sharp iron
If I could make a suggestion that I knew GGG would notice, it would be to add Belt Anointment that are custom manipulations to what items are dropped. Like "Monsters drop more Exalted orbs", "Monsters drop more tier 4 maps", "Monsters have a small chance to drop essences" and other things like that. So we can choose to get more of one specific resource we want and change it depending on what we want at the moment, without having to do the same map over and over again which targeted farming currently requires.
Since that's the only thing Belt anointments would do, there's no choice on choosing to decrease your damage output in favor of getting more drops. It's just choosing what you want to be obtaining the most.
violet nymph
I feel like GGG doesn't want the player to be able to increase their rewards without also increasing risk
there's always a catch for more items, usually
unless you're a currency flipper
sharp iron
My idea is focused more on choosing what you want to get more of instead of just getting more loot across the board.
Similar to choosing to farm a specific map because it drops a certain divination card that you want to get a set of.
That was just my idea. There are 144 combinations when you are using 2 oils (and have 12 types of oils), so there's enough to fit all item types and currencies without too much grouping together.
violet nymph
I think the anointment should add 2 mods, one for the item type you'd be getting more of, and another for the negative bonus
Gold/Gold oils would give "Monsters have an increased chance to drop an Exalted Orb" and "Players have 20% reduced Action Speed"
something that would really hurt every single build that used it
only Juggernaut has a stat that counteracts that, and who on earth plays jugg lol
sharp iron
This is something I've seen the Diablo devs talk about, but having to chose between increased loot and increased damage isn't good. Since what you're doing is choosing to have less fun in favor of getting more rewards. My idea for belt anointments was made specifically around that by having it occupy a slot where only loot-related stats exist, so you're not giving up fun for more rewards.
languid path
as if everyone isn't gonna put on monsters drop more mirror and go back to mindless mapping 
next epoch
also I feel like items that interact with drop rates directly like that isn't a design direction they've expressed much interest in
the only item I can think of that has an effect like that is perandus signet, and that's for wisdom scrolls 😛
violet nymph
i did just write this on reddit lol
i think that's a bit more realistic as a target farm mechanic though
you get 5 of them, place them on maps you want to farm, etc
you'd need something like an unshaping orb to remove them
next epoch
@violet nymph yeah, and that isn't on an item anyway so the design space is a little more open
violet nymph
yeah
it's basically cartographer's seals without losing bonus objectives and being really fucking annoying
and probably better for sustain
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/fd7grt/elderslayers_orb_the_replacement_for/ here's the full post 😛
thorn furnace
are there currently any active skills/supports we dont know about yet?
violet nymph
there are two other supports we don't know, i think
since i think they stated 3 supports were coming, and we only know of spellslinger
slender temple
BRAND SUPPORT PLEASE
dawn rune
so we know that increased spell damage affects kinetic bolt, but does more spell damage or spell crit? lol
or is it just tagged as an attack and a spell and gets all of both
violet nymph
more spell damage will do nothing to kinetic bolt
vast gazelle
Sad, I wish it did, the supports would be interesting
timid geyser
It would end up being way too over powered
sharp iron
We have so few brands in the game that it's difficult to distinguish between traits that are inherit to all brands and traits that a specific skill has.
violet nymph
we have 2
next epoch
and of the two, I think most people use storm brand
sharp iron
Random thought I had. What if Spectral Throw left the weapon on the ground instead of returning back to you, with you then being able to cast Bladeblast or Animate Weapon on it? Would more people use it that way?
violet nymph
188 use storm brand as a main skill
the point of spectral throw is that it comes back
it's how you get damage
sharp iron
The initial throw could be buffed to compensate.
violet nymph
you'd have to quadruple its damage basically
frank hound
or, you know, what if BLADE flurry actually left the blades there
wouldn't want to buff the attack though...
torn isle
I think the point is for blade summoning spells to leave spare blades, it's not like blade flurry makes you have excess blades left over since you are using your actual physical weapon...
also instead of spectral throw leaving the blade, I'd suggest it would work like Blade vortex which also doesn't leave blades, but can still interact with bladeblast regardless.
violet nymph
spectral throw would be way cooler if the weapon didn't instantly disappear the instant it touched you
imagine if it had to touch you twice for it to end
lucid haven
U can spectral trow staffs tho
frank hound
well the point is that for some reason they didn't feel attacks needed buffs for some ungodly reaosn
but instead buffed blade vortex
lucid haven
We dunno if they won't be buffed
frank hound
we don't, we just know they aren;t getting the fancy new mechanic
wild arch
We still don't know 2 support gems
lucid haven
Having to cast that spell on a attack build would be opportunity cost anyways
violet nymph
^
lucid haven
Makes it wonky without coc or cwc
torn isle
Or you can play wand attack build and cast spells automatically. 😛
lucid haven
Meaning no blade flurry
wild arch
Really considering a spellslinger gladiator starter
torn isle
(though I'd see it less as a wand attack build, and more of the spells replacing the wand attack outright)
violet nymph
I'm considering witch wander/slinger for mine
wild arch
Bladefall and blade blast sounds great
torn isle
yes... but bladefall + animate weapon. :V
wild arch
Since gladiator's block nodes still scale them with generic physical damage
violet nymph
But, purifying flame :^)
lucid haven
I'm thinking i will keep my blast for bosing on my bladefall. Looks wonky for mapping
torn isle
wonder what's the maximum feasible summons now, just for the lulz...
wild arch
EK and unearth for projectile scaling 
torn isle
Volatile orb 2.0 spellslinger. :X
violet nymph
But slow isnt the name of the game
torn isle
you can still attach bodyswap to it..?
violet nymph
Ah right body swap
solid basin
In the new jewel slots, can you put still regular abyssal and normal jewels or ONLY the new cluster jewels? If so, where will you be able to put your normal / abyssal jewels?
torn isle
not to mention I'm not sure if lightning warp would even work right.
violet nymph
@torn isle it was shown in the clip to work
peak terrace
u can if it has the proper lines
solid basin
@peak terrace So you can still put into these new jewel slots your regular jewels?
violet nymph
@solid basin all instances of jewel slots are useable for base jewels we know and love.
solid basin
Thank you @violet nymph
violet nymph
The outer jewels have extra text for the new jewels basically
solid basin
and @peak terrace
torn isle
I know it works in that clip, but I mean if you cast it too fast or to close to your spot, wouldn't the lightning warp changes in 3.9 mess with the warping?
violet nymph
@torn isle to fast = you queue it up
Too close = just gets used as damage
The goal would be CDR scaling more than anything doe the breakpoints
peak terrace
one thing i am debating about spellslinger is that it requires an attack right ?
violet nymph
Wand attacks @peak terrace
peak terrace
so u cannot arc and warp unless u spellslinger both
and u use barrage or any wand attack
violet nymph
4l arc clears fine. And lw is a 3l
Or 6l if you wand dps
They will be like 20% res each
Want*
torn isle
you can probably use two separate spellslinger links for your main attack and support spells though anyway.
violet nymph
You are getting tons of flat from wand. To the point it's more than most auras
peak terrace
watchers tho
torn isle
I'd think getting more support spells out would possibly be more helpful than having more auras anyway.
violet nymph
^
torn isle
also if you're going to 3L the lightning warp, why not desecrate + bodyswap instead? I mean, other than the increased mana reserve, which I guess could be an issue.
torn isle
I mean for moving alone, wouldn't the desecrate + bodyswap be better?
violet nymph
Prob. But more mana res
Also the 3rd link for lw is less duration just cuz it's good qol. Plus other less duration
130% less duration for making it fast af
Also can swap arc for oos for bossing like jousis did in his vid today
torn isle
I know less duration for LW for QoL, but I believe bodyswap is instant instead. 😛
violet nymph
Lw also scales with my lightning wand/tree so I can make it dps
torn isle
I guess yes, but bodyswap can DPS too... granted totally different build, and desecrate bodyswap would synergise more with Volatile Dead as mentioned earlier anyway.
violet nymph
Yeah. Different types of builds
radiant lance
vicious skewering seems fun for lacerate glad
barren crescent
Flicker Strike
violet nymph
ive been trying to figure out some Cyclone CoC Blade Vortex but i have no idea how to make the bladeblast trigger
wild arch
Cwdt for emergencies?
rough radish
Erm. Cospri’s?
violet nymph
problem is idk about the single target blade blast offers for blade vortex
cuz BV aoe is good enough already
wild arch
Sound like they really want you to use blade blast on a spellslinger setup with EK or BF
compact junco
wym? aoe with BV is always problem
you need like heralds, explody chest
etc to make BV clear not meh
violet nymph
most BVs i played were either elementalists or assassins
compact junco
so heralds were clearing for you not bv :d
violet nymph
yeah but single target was a problem
compact junco
but also BV does enough single target damage already
how? BV does a lot of damage without much gear
violet nymph
i dont know, i might not be scaling it correctly
wild arch
Maybe your builds weren't that good?
patent canyon
bv does ok damage its not really that good
compact junco
yeah sounds like problem between pc and chair :d
patent canyon
its also point blank melee range to do damage
compact junco
melee range sucks, but its really good single. e.g you can just grab basic bow, signal fire and you will easily have 3M+ dps
violet nymph
ive never played it with a bow
played it with void battery on assassin and rare daggers / stat sticks back when they were a thing on elementalist
wild arch
Stat sticks were a melee thing
violet nymph
i agree with deathbeam
they were used on BV aswell
it's somewhere between the chair and the screen that's the problem :^)
wild arch
It's focused around whatever you want to focus on 🙂
sharp iron
Mainly about making risk vs. reward decisions from what we've seen. But yes, if you kill things faster you will be rewarded faster.
jovial pawn
Mhm
Last league was my first time ever playing poe and had a blast using arcc witch but i'd like to change to something else so ill have to look around for some builds
wild arch
Essence drain/contagion is a solid league starter
unkempt notch
Ignore advice, start wands
violet nymph
sounds like my plan and i'm going to want to kill myself for it
just like every league
unkempt notch
Tbh it probably won't be bad with spellsinger, don't need amazing gear because the spell can carry you till you can get a good wand
violet nymph
also wandslinger noteable if you want to use anything other than kinetic bolt
gray moon
do you guys think lioneye's fall would work on bloodscent?
unkempt notch
Would be surprised if any of the transformative jewels work on the new jewels
gray moon
why?
violet nymph
Pretty sure only the new jewels can go inside those new weird jewel sockets.
peak terrace
nah not only
silver kettle
radius jewels don't interact with any passives created by cluster sockets, or work from any of the sockets created by them. Mark has some reddit posts about it you can read if you're curious
peak terrace
but no radius jewels are gonna work wiht hte cluster jewels
silver kettle
but normal and abyss jewels can go inside cluster jewel sockets, yes
silver kettle
I'm a game designer. I just like this server
gray moon
dang it would be interesting if the radius jewels worked
too much balancing though i imagine
silver kettle
too much programming and too much balancing
the programming would apparently be a nightmare
storm crown
If The radius jewels dont work, does that also mean for jewels that gives The noticable a drawback? Kinda like th2 minion jewels that either makes them take more damage or get slower
peak terrace
what ?
dusty umbra
If{if{If{if{If{
else{else{else{else
storm crown
There is 2 minion jewels. In radius all noticable gets a drawback of either slower ms or taking more damsge
peak terrace
@silver kettle so far they/ you? showed the huge passives (forgive me for not knowing the name) be available after fully expanding the cluster
is it possible to get them on the very first small jewel u socket
silver kettle
I'm not sure I quite understand the question, can you give an example?
dusty umbra
@peak terrace yeah what do you mean by that?
storm crown
Keystones
peak terrace
keystooones exactly
dusty umbra
we've seen a keystone or two , but none of tree ones with them
peak terrace
in the trailer i believe one or two showed up as the furthermost point of the cluster
timid geyser
You can socket a keystone cluster jewel into one of the initial cluster jewel sockets.
timid geyser
So you don't need to chain if you only care for the keystone.
peak terrace
can u socket a large ring cluster jewel or only a small one in the initial jewel socket
timid geyser
You can socket any into the initial socket
But then it chains down. So from the large you can only throw in medium, small, or non-cluster jewel
dusty umbra
Initial - any large/medium/small
Large - only medium/small
Medium - only small
Small - doesn't have any sockets for extensions
peak terrace
it was already shown ... i am rtrded
storm crown
Sizes are 12, 6 and 3 on The jewels
storm crown
But maxes
dusty umbra
this one is good example
large with 8 passives but 2x jews and 2x noteables and 4 smalls
storm crown
Wouldnt be surpriced If 1 socket is 1 explicit by itself and they can have 4 explicit like other jewels
native sonnet
enhance
timid geyser
In theory that could also just be a 3 mod jewel and 2 jewel sockets is a rarer mod on large clusters
storm crown
Gonna be Nice with full list on noticsbles
peak terrace
also interesting to see how modifyable they are
like can a rare jewel have 6 lines
like can u exalt slam extra lines on it
stuff like that
storm crown
So far 4 lines only been revealed
timid geyser
Full list is next week https://discordapp.com/channels/174993814845521922/175003881300951040/684504596756168771
unique scroll
I can fairly confidently say that three sockets is a max and available only on that unique jool. First thing is that this jool had it as a unique property and because of that rares can't overshadow it. Second is the space availability. Look at how lines would have to go if there were more than three. And that's remembering medium wheels also can have multiple sockets. Space is a resource.
Also, they wouldn't reveal 3 socket jool if rares can roll it and have other nodes
peak terrace
if we assume 4 lines is what u can have on a large jewel and a large one adds 12 passives, then a jewel socket takes 3 passives away
so i believe u cannot get 4
but 3 should be k
storm crown
Doubt 3 sockets is max
When unique with nothing is 3 jewel slots
So i think 2 is max
peak terrace
where did u see tht unique
timid geyser
peak terrace
truuu
i think that jewel is pretty fire
5 points for 3 jewel sockets is nuts no
and its not limited to 1
😱
timid geyser
Still need to travel to an outer jewel socket for it.
peak terrace
i think of my coc builds
above acrobatics and next to ci for example
or next to whispers of doom
those are gonna be skills travel only
and i usually get those anyways 😄
timid geyser
Assuming you have no travel it turns 1x 3 passive point jewel socket into 3x 2.3 passive point jewel sockets
It is good for sure.
Though main power probably comes from the ability to chain a bunch of cluster jewels (assuming they aren't underwhelming)
peak terrace
also can u potentially get 3 more socketed into the first 3
so u get 9 jewel slots for 16 points
socket 7%life and crit multi in each
timid geyser
Doesn't work like that.
You can't socket a large cluster jewel into a large cluster jewel.
storm crown
Never know If there is a unique that allows for changing that up tho
timid geyser
I'd bet money on the fact that wouldn't be the case.
storm crown
Doubt it
Considering how many things there is i think they Will be plentiful unlike catalysts
And The passive needs to be powerful as they require both passive points and currency unless you are super Lucky and get exactly The nodes and clusters you want
dusty umbra
@timid geyser tbh speaking of using them for jewels ; a jewl like one bex recently posted ; 2 jew slots ; 2 notables ; 4 small nodes is probably better than 3 jewels
storm crown
Cluster with 3% life enchant with +7life to small nodes and 25% modifiera on small nodes with some life notables might rival The scion life wheel
timid geyser
Yeah, but tbh I have a feeling get a jewel like that one is gonna be quite hard
timid geyser
Those are medium vs large jewels.
dusty umbra
my jewels were 5-8 ex last league
meant the 3x normal ones to put in voices for example
timid geyser
Oh, if you are using it for normal jewels it is probably because you are playing golem build.
dusty umbra
rando example 30 multi ; 7% life x 3 in one voices
timid geyser
In that case I 100% agree. rare jewel is probably better than voices unless you are super scuffed on passive points
dusty umbra
or jews i was using
4% chaos multi ; 7% life ; 8% aspeed with bows ; 10% proj dmg
nononono i mean using voices + 3x rare jews in it's slots
can you not put normal jewels in those 3 slots?
Voices could technically be:
7 points (3 to get to socket 4 on voices itself) for 12% chaos multi 24% aspeed 21% life 30% proj dmg as example --- or 90% crit 21% life + another dmg stat
or if you're feeling frisky and rich ~120-140 crit multi for 7 points
timid geyser
Yeah, in the case of using the jewel sockets for normal rare jewels. I agree using a rare cluster jewel with 8 passive points and 2 sockets and decent notables > voices 3 sockets.
timid geyser
Even in that case a well rolled large cluster jewel > voices for most builds.
peak terrace
question becomes whats the cost of a well rolled cluster jewel
storm crown
cluster enchat fr life% has been at 3 in the examples
timid geyser
Honestly, I think a lot. I'm speculating the large the jewel size the rarer they will be, and you also have to factor in the enchant and how many passives are on it.
Then you need to craft them.
peak terrace
also thing is
we saw only a blue large with lightning
it has simple 12% lightning
storm crown
yeap
peak terrace
so mayhe a medium with two notables and less small nodes
plus a jewel sockey
for a special keystone
could work wonders
who knows
dusty umbra
Large cluster ; with bunch of 5% chaos multi + some good notables or jewel sockets - i'd take it
basically you could give me 4-5x 5% chaos multi and some notables/jewel sockets
tender tusk
Large clusters seem really nice to tighten up some trees
dusty umbra
If they add it to main game it's going to change we make our trees imo drastically that every build will have 1-2 of these
tender tusk
even if delirium sucks i reckon they'll be added
dusty umbra
On one hand it'll feel nice not having to go scion wheel on every second build
tender tusk
they seem too interesting to leave in a league
dusty umbra
2x voices already provides plenty with 6x rare jewels in them for cost of 14 points
tender tusk
and yes, DIY scion wheels
dusty umbra
14 points for 42% life + other stuff
tender tusk
i hope they change voices to be cluster jewels only
dusty umbra
large cluster jewel can have 2 jewel sockets like the last one they showed so don't see them doing that
peak terrace
if my theory was true
dusty umbra
yeah but since large jewels can sport 2 notables 2 jewel sockets and 4 passives ; it evens out so nerf would be out of place
for voices
tender tusk
can mediums hold regular jewels?
peak terrace
nah it cant be prob
peak terrace
honestly two slots and a good notable is pretty fire
also we still need to find out how the implicits are rolled
and what ucan get there
dusty umbra
was talking about this one - 2 jewel sockets ; 2 notables and 4 passives
tender tusk
once the notables are released we'll see how powerful the cluster jewels are
can those sockets hold jewels?
also rolling 2 sockets might be super rare
peak terrace
ye they can
peak terrace
imagine u rollswords and say max life or melee dmg implicits
instead of axes
and the jewel slots
and the notables
it becomes sick wheel
tender tusk
the enchants are probably locked for each jewel
peak terrace
ye ziggyd said that those also dictate what notables u gonna get
apparently theyd be the same theme
peak terrace
i am mor eintersted in the keystones
tender tusk
Hopefully there's a few more we haven't seen
but they seem to be reasonably toned back
dusty umbra
We haven't seen a ton ; since 280 is number of notables right?
tender tusk
280 is the notables ye
but keystones also
we've seen like 12 notables?
but all the notables have been pretty powerful
dusty umbra
My guess around 10-14 keystones maybe.
storm crown
we also dont know how many bases there is
storm crown
but expecitng most of what alreadyt exists for small nodes
tender tusk
yeah, small nodes are just gonna be life/es/damage
wild arch
Something to make ignite more interesting would be nice
tender tusk
prolif notable :P
wild arch
Nah
We got crimson dance to make bleeds stack, and now a notable that enables big poison memes
Meanwhile ignite got nothing
wild arch
Also melee ignite is practically useless
Would be nice if they did something about that
tender tusk
i dunno what they could do to ignite on a notable that just wouldn't be required
potent schooner
New RF build is just gonna be AoE nodes and then a parade of life/jewel socket clusters.
storm crown
small nodes known are: 3% life, 12 of single resistance (not seen chaos tho), 12% minion life, 10% flask effect durration, 12% lightning damage, 10% area damage, 10% attack damage some of hte ones i have seen
btw in the videon there is a medium cluster with 2 notables and 1 jewel socket
tender tusk
there probably is chaos res
just at a lower rate
It'd be amazing if chaos jewels just had generic DotM
storm crown
chaos res on small node mode is +3 chaos res
wild arch
I came up with brain rattler lightning ignite eq but that still felt lacklustre as hell
gray swan
Was Spell Slinger the 4th active skill they talked about? There is some confusion whether it was one of the 3 supports or one of the active skills?
wild arch
Spellslinger is a support
wintry fern
wich totem build should i play this league? played freze pulse/divine ire last league
arc or something like that any ideas?
timid geyser
stormbind might be interesting depending on how it interacts with totems.
gray swan
GGG said "spell slinger skill" which makes me think it was the fourth skill gem
tender tusk
slinger is a support
zealous monolith
Arcane Cloak looks fun
timid geyser
It is a "skill-support" which according to mark "Skill-support is like bane (primarily an active skill gem with a support effect)". With that said yeah support gem confirmed.
vast berry
anyone else get charged dash vibes from storm bind?
gray swan
Lol what Mark said makes me think it is an active gem since it is like bane
timid geyser
Yeah, it is a little confusing.
zealous monolith
stormbind teleports you? that is both interesting and disappointing
I wonder if it has movement tag
if so, it can be interesting with Trickster
timid geyser
Mechanically it sounds a little clunky, but due to that I could see it potentially having large amounts of damage.
Trickster would be like anti-synergy if you are talking about mana node.
"The more mana you spend while channeling Rune Blast, the greater the area of effect and damage your upgraded runes will have."
timid geyser
From the gameplay though yeah 100% charge dash vibes
wild arch
Wait, can't you just trigger an archmage spell to ignore the high mana cost?
timid geyser
It is probably a buff based of mana spent.
think of it like linking arcane surge to a triggered skill.
zealous monolith
Archmage could be fun with Hierophant
timid geyser
my LL BL hiero gets a juciy buff from archmage support 🙂
wild arch
It just says replace the mana cost with one that scales with your unreserved mana
In the demo clip there's no new buff icon
timid geyser
Only way to know for sure is ask from the source.
But for balance and thematic reasons I can't see it working with triggered spells.
lucid stone
Wew
So
Do I use molten shell or arcane cloak on mana guardian
Oh wait unreserved mana
timid geyser
Also, no vaal arcane cloak
bright perch
MoM builds could really benefit from arcane cloak
and I am curious how it interacts with EB
lucid stone
e.e
Storm rune totems sounds cool
And I wonder if archmage support works with mines
bright perch
Also, no vaal arcane cloak
I kinda read Arcane Croak, and now I want a transformation spell for PoE2 that turns you into a frog 😁
timid geyser
hasty perch
i hope the damage numbers on arcane cloak are nice
but tbh if you use arcane cloak you can probably also slot in vaal molten shell if you really want
as you'll probably self cast arcane cloak
torn isle
So, Arcane cloak is basically a manual-activated mind over matter that also protects ES and buffs damage?
cobalt falcon
Also give mana they say
torn isle
how does it give mana...?
torn isle
the damage scales with the amount of mana spent yes. :X
I assume archmage support and arcane cloak still uses mana even while under vaal clarity.
cunning blade
is there any skills that are both attack and spell?
torn isle
lots...?
cursive widget
damn stormbind actually looks kinda sick
torn isle
stormbind looks nice... problem is I'm not convinced on actual ingame usage. Like old mines it requires two casts to actually trigger, unlike old mines you can't abuse detonate mine totem to trigger them for you.
cunning blade
attack and spell*
torn isle
technically totems counts as attack and spell, but that's probably not what you're looking for. 😛
bright perch
also I can see the teleport portion being annoying more than useful
spice cipher
Storm bind might be good at the very top end , just assuming here. Prob need ridiculous cast speed among other things
torn isle
(also summons)
spice cipher
The teleport thing is kinda
Unless it’s all instant idk but there seemed to be a delay between teleport and moving
torn isle
to be fair, they probably realized people also want to move fast while mapping, so they merged movement into the already 2-part spell. :V
cunning blade
torn isle
actually... since Archmage support uses a percent of your unreserved mana... can it use LESS than the original spell casting cost if unreserved mana percentage is lower than original cost?
leaden cypress
use it to cast spells when you only have like 10 mana?
torn isle
depending on how it's worded I guess. Sometimes skills are strict on exactly how they use resources.
It could be worded like sacrifice % mana, which would mean you can't redirect the cost.
hasty perch
99% sure it's a no
it's most likely just like arcane surge
and other things requiring to use mana
won't work if you use shield
torn isle
there's a difference between this and arcane surge: Arcane surge tracks how much mana you use, this is directly related to the mana cost itself. But again if it's worded as sacrifice, you can't redirect it regardless.
cunning blade
do auras effects apply to totems?
torn isle
Only defensive auras. Attacks/spells are based on caster's stats so indirectly are affected by offensive auras affecting the caster.
thorn furnace
does indigon increase mine reservation?
unkempt notch
anyone have any idea how pierce will interact with kinetic bolt? will it be terrible?
violet nymph
more than likely since it has innate fork @unkempt notch
mild pine
Is it known how cluster jewels drop?
native sonnet
any mobs fogged by delirium
torn isle
it looked like kinetic bolt innately pierces to begin with regardless.
violet nymph
@torn isle it's fork*
torn isle
I know it forks too, but I'm not sure if it doesn't pierce before it uses up it's fork count. Though isn't the reason why pierce suck with fork because it prevents fork, but this skill forks automatically regardless?
brazen arch
does this give chaos res?
native sonnet
what makes u think it might ?
torn isle
firstly no, secondly it doesn't give res, it reduces it. Elemental only though.
versed dock
Why would you use that instead of Intiutive Leap 🤔
copper kernel
longer reach
wild arch
Archmage sounds like the perfect support for ignite
frank hound
does it?
wild arch
From what I understood it's meant for slow and hard hitting spells considering that you can't really sustain a percentage spam for long
And ignite is pretty much exactly that
native sonnet
U kinda wanna spam abit for lightning based ignite though
With the dmg range being so wide
wild arch
Well yeah
You might be able to shoot a couple spells before going oom
What spell do you even use tho
native sonnet
Arc/divine ire
wild arch
Ire sounds good
But wait
Isn't it gonna drain a percentage of your mana per second?
Might not be able to sustain it for a full charge
native sonnet
Not sure how it works with channeling yet (if it does)
wild arch
Hmm
What about just fireball?
Is -50% resist really better than 88% more ignite damage?
Or
torn isle
or you know, you can just get enough mana sustain to sustain archmage instead. 😛
wild arch
Dark pact for 76% more ailment damage AND -50% resist
native sonnet
Wonder if it’s actually possible to sustain it with some fast hitting skills and council helm shock or other sources of mana recovery
Storm burst with it hmmm
wild arch
Trickster could sustain it if it's cheap af
But then there's no point
The instant trap detonation build was fun
cunning blade
if its sustainable, it either has to be a super low cost ( basically not much damage ) or u gotta have some really nutty mana regen
marble ginkgo
I wonder how is it going to interact with reduced mana cost. like is it goimg to reduce the dmg gain per "cast tick"
void wing
If the dmg is based on the mana cost it's going to not be as interesting as if it was based on % of unreserved mana.
marble ginkgo
So like "Sanctuary of Thought" Im worried it will end up being a dps loss for get the reserved cost and reservation
and some mana skills have % cost reduction on them
sour mountain
Archmagw brands could be cheeky
bitter ledge
Will Archmage work even if you have 100% mana reserved?
bitter ledge
I was actually thinking of a really cool build, but I just realized that it wouldn't work even if archmage with 100% mana reserved did work.
For this build to work, you need to have an ability that is a channeled spell and attack at the same time.
[Hypothetical channeled spell/attack] - Cast while channeling - Archmage - Lightning Warp
Spellslinger - Spark - Faster Projectiles - [Supports to make the mana reserved exactly 100%]
How will archmage work with blood magic?
frank hound
probably very poorly
torn isle
we currently don't know, also still no idea what you're trying to do with that build.
torn isle
that's assuming it would even use your hp. 😛
torn isle
actually, I'd wager it wouldn't.
frank hound
I would definitely bet money on it working on unreserved hp
torn isle
NOT everything blood magic touches turns mana into hp cost.
bitter ledge
I wanna bet that Mathil will make a build using that in 3-4 weeks.
bitter ledge
😦
torn isle
especially things that alters the cost of mana for spells or tracks said cost.
frank hound
name one
torn isle
Not exactly the same, but edritch battery doesn't convert reserved mana into reserved ES. Looking for more specific examples, specifically those involving sacrificing mana.
Like manastorm I believe doesn't make you sacrifice all health instead.
My suspicion specifically is that archmage would work like manastorm.
patent canyon
entire description tells what will happen
if you use it with entire mana pool reserved its like not having a support gem
since damage it gives is based on UNRESERVED mana
also its very possible you wont even be able to cast it instead of just not getting benefit
torn isle
we're not talking about the bonus damage, we're talking about the cost.
patent canyon
wait... can you get free spells then. cost is based on unreserved mana pool %. if you reserve it all does spell cost nothing
torn isle
That's our question yes.
peak terrace
it is more like
the spell consumes % of mana to deal X bonus dmg
if u dont have the % of mana needed to trigger the effect
u cast normally
torn isle
also possible... but that still doesn't answer the question of what happens when % of mana = 0.
peak terrace
if u check the video
at 0.25 speed at the time i posted
u can see it casts a normal arc for barely any cost
torn isle
that still doesn't answer the question.
peak terrace
and then pops mana pots and gets above 1600 mana
which is what it needs to proc archmage
torn isle
because clearly in those instance, % of mana is greater than spell cost.
peak terrace
it depends on the gem scaling
if it is like x% bonus spell damage per 100 mana spent up to a maximum of 1500 or sth
if u got no mana unreserved
it wont do anything basically
torn isle
You're missing the point. We're not talking about the bonus damage. We're talking about the mana cost.
peak terrace
what about it
patent canyon
well he did cast it when he had below 1.6k
and it consumed the rest
so i assume you will have 0 cost spell technically
torn isle
As it is worded, it uses a % of unreserved mana. What happens if you reserve mana up the the point in which % of mana is below that of spell cost.
peak terrace
not true Hvande
it is cast once on 600 mana without consuming it to full
u hear the mana flask pop
and regen tick in
putting to 1600
and then it is consumed
there is that 1 cast at 600 that doesnt consume mana
effect is not triggered @torn isle what is there to cosider
patent canyon
the thing that you can have free spells
torn isle
the demo doesn't answer the question though, since it doesn't show the precise conditions where it could answer it. (aka when unreserved mana is low enough such that % of unreserved mana is below spell cost)
Why would the effect not trigger?
peak terrace
there is no mana to consume
patent canyon
yes so you cast free spell with no added damage
torn isle
again you're missing the point. we're not talking about damage. we're talking about mana cost of spell.
peak terrace
i think u are too far in ur head to not think about what i am saying
the gem scaling imo would be like icwdt or arcane surge
torn isle
"Instead of using the skill's inherent mana cost, the Archmage Support causes it to use a percentage of your unreserved maximum mana."
peak terrace
where gem levels increase the max limit of mana that can be consumed
torn isle
INSTEAD of using the inherent skill's mana cost.
we don't know if it works exactly like how manastorm works, but in this instance, unlike manastorm which also uses the spell cost, this claims to replace it.
patent canyon
and if you can sacrifice that 6L for free spell and additional aura for free casting that might bring self cast to slightly better place
peak terrace
ok so what u mean is if say 5l arc costs 25 mana
torn isle
(or you can cheese it by using the freecast for reserved mana on spellslinger, but yes)
peak terrace
through auras u reserve to 20 mana available
what happens when u put archmage as 6th link
torn isle
yes.
peak terrace
most likely what happens is
it converts to % of unreserved mana
so it might make the cost actually 2-5 mana
but it wont give u anyy bonus dmg
torn isle
Then we push that idea further, and reserve ALL mana.
peak terrace
in this scenario u get a free spell cast
or it is not usable at all
either way u are running a 5l arc
torn isle
that's precisely what we're theorycrafting yes.
peak terrace
and not a 6l cause archmage would give u no bonus dmg
however
i doubt ggg are that stupid
i am almsot 100% sure there would be
costs % of unreserved mana with a minimum of X
torn isle
% yes, but in exchange you don't need to worry about mana management.
peak terrace
which might be the base cost of the spell
torn isle
and yes, it COULD work like manastorm, which is exactly what you are describing.
well, almost, but still.
I also wouldn't be surprized if it uses the same damage conversion formula as manastorm, aka 1/4 of total mana spent added to lightning spell damage.
wicked oriole
im curious about spellslinger support
so
is it possible to have a 6l worb setup with a 2l ice nova+spellslinger set up
and make a worb coc build?
or worb icenova* build
torn isle
you mean winter orb? spellslinger only works when you attack with a wand so I don't see how you are going to channel winter orb while activating spellslinger.
wicked oriole
when the worb hits with a wand equipped, wont it work?
torn isle
no, it's not by hits, it's by attacks.
wicked oriole
hmmmmm
torn isle
which also means you don't actually need to hit with said attack for the matter.
violet nymph
Arc/lightning warp spellslinger baby
torn isle
or VD/bodyswap, but yes.
frank hound
that greatly depends on how low you can get the cd
even with poet's pen it can feel cluncky
storm crown
Think new clusters is gonna bring forth some insanly op builds