sure there might be some decent ones
#1┃mirage-league
wild arch
Melee/projectile/spell sounds reasonable
fallen tulip
unarmed skills when
hasty perch
a support gem like close combat and nightblade that requires a wand
hasty perch
ora ora ora ora ora ora skill when
wild arch
Oh and cyclone
fallen tulip
how about a Divine Ire but only unarmed
vast gazelle
now you have my attention
wild arch
Frenzy is pretty much ora ora
hasty perch
shaper slam skill when :^)
wild arch
Ice crash ;^)
dusty umbra
i mean 500 dex is easy ; but how will we get 800+
vast gazelle
if youre willing to run a wildwrap its not that hard
fallen tulip
ez just use the new jewels with "small passives grant 10 dex"
hasty perch
you can get a TON of dex on redeemer armor
flat and %
add amulet , fractal thoughts
it adds up
it's also highly probable that some cluster jewel nodes will have "small notables add x dex/str/int"
wild arch
Why not trickster to make conc path free? 
vast gazelle
owo
now youre speaking my language
i was thinking all those juicy crit bonuses too though
wild arch
What about the juicy 100% extra chaos 
vast gazelle
also what was this about someone saying we cant get claw nodes with rigwalds and hollow palm
but aof
oh
hm
wild arch
Claw crit
vast gazelle
OH thats what they meant
wild arch
I suddenly have the urge to do frenzy berserker and go ham with 2 brightbeaks
vast gazelle
pog
ignore most of the other stats
this was thrown together before i had to run
its a start but
wet plaza
cant ignore the missing thousand seps
timid geyser
I have a PoB with some workarounds for dps if you want to nab that.
dusty umbra
for hollow palm?
timid geyser
Yup
vast gazelle
Sure hit me up
vast gazelle
Ty
timid geyser
It isn't perfect as Critical strike multiplier with claws still applies so if you want to correct it you need to -25% crit multi because of "Claws of the Hawk"
I also know Uly posted a zerker version in this channel based off this if that interests you
Though I haven't gotten a chance to look at it yet.
Damage is probably about the same as this glad setup maybe about ~15% more damage
dusty umbra
@timid geyser what's up with your cyclo coil tho
timid geyser
I just threw double corrupted cause I didn't wanna bother adjusting jewels for enough int. 
Wait I'm only 1 int off without double corrupt. >.>
vast gazelle
Lol
timid geyser
it is at 1040 dex without corruption on belt
timid geyser
here is the one uly posted yesterday. pretty sure it is the same exact gear as mine. https://pastebin.com/p5kH92QU
timid geyser
Oh and he was cheeky and threw in a random vaal warchief without gem sockets for it 
vast gazelle
XD
timid geyser
I can't blame him. It is his inner POB warrior
dusty umbra
we can remove smoke mine lul
timid geyser
Sure, I just really like smoke mine as a movement skill
You'd need to replace it with like flame dash or something I guess
Can't use leap slam, whirling blades, ect.
And if you want to nab a extra gem slot you can use inc duration elder boots as well. idk why I didn't throw that in this...
timid geyser
Yeah, and glad has more move speed I think.
even when accounting for rage. though it is probably quite close
hasty perch
what's the point
if you go phys impale crit berserk
might as well go facebreaker abyssus
it's probably more damage
timid geyser
It is an interesting alternative. With that said I don't see myself playing it this league
dusty umbra
any facebreaker builds are easy 20m+ right now so ya what we're trying to do here is find a build with hollow palm that outperforms it
vast gazelle
With how grindy boss mechanics are I wont play it unless it can do bosses unflasked lol
hasty perch
yes and honestly if you go crit you're probably already going the wrong way with hollow palm
timid geyser
I can tell you already it isn't going to outperform any well built facebreaker build.
hasty perch
as it will be outperformed by facebreaker
wet plaza
why would yo not go impale
hasty perch
dex stacking amulet on the other hand
and EO
because by freeing crit and impale passives to get a lot more dex
you get a massively higher base damage
timid geyser
I mean it isn't like you are going to get that much more dex. Maybe 50% more if I had to guess.
wet plaza
not worth dropping impale if youre phys
hasty perch
i think ele overload and abusing some nice phys gained as extra on amulet would be more efficient
because if you go phys impale crit you're just building a worse facebreaker
timid geyser
What's to say you can't just go EO on a facebreaker build and make the same exact thing but better?
hasty perch
well you don't get as much from the ammulet slot
from dropping rigwald
and also not using abyssus makes you more well rounded
defense wise
timid geyser
I mean most a lot facebreaker build don't use abyssus already, and imo it isn't that great anyway.
hasty perch
I think you can make a hollow palm build that while it deals less than abyssus facebreaker ofc will be more well rounded
wet plaza
pob it out, as long as you use the same base assumption about the jewel as the other ones you can compare them
hasty perch
and use the dex for decent evasion potentially to get dodge/spelldodge
i'll see
do we have the keystone confirmed as 40% more as?
timid geyser
it is 60% more
dusty umbra
it got buffed ya
timid geyser
There was a post from bex about it. They buffed it after press tour.
hasty perch
man
i loathe
making stat stacking trees on pob
need to put every item in place
and need to custom make that damn keystone on a jewel or something
right.. no conq influence on pob
w.e i'll do it later
wet plaza
use the fork it has most of the current stuff
timid geyser
Made some adjustments for a non-crit PoB with an absolutely disgusting shaper amulet. Unless I'm missing something really obvious not looking too great.
wet plaza
you have to change a single line there is nothing else to do
hasty perch
do you have a redeemer armor with dex% ?
timid geyser
Yes. I was already using that (elder) in my previous PoBs
timid geyser
dusty umbra
yeah that looks kind of weak
timid geyser
Could be discord api buggin out like normal.
wet plaza
time to close the ide we done boys
timid geyser
wet plaza
yes i am sure repeating the same input will lead to diff outputs mr. ydro
there you go
ezbot
timid geyser
Also a really scuffed thing about EO is you are relying on frost bomb for EO procs.
bright perch
wait, the bot is supposed to print stuff like that? On my end, he always just posts empty posts
no spoiler or something to open
timid geyser
My main point with the jewel still stands though. It is scuffed till poe2 gem rework.
As soon as that comes it looks 100 times better.
timid geyser
Look at the new stuff a bit more in depth. These gloves actually look pretty good
languid path
the only pet peeves I have against the glove is that it says area
and not chilled status
timid geyser
Yeah, requires but using something like vortex or cwdt coldsnap for them isn't a huge deal imo.
dusty umbra
@timid geyser initial cyclone version looks ok with glad pops as our cyclone aoe is weak ; we can also fit phase acro in there ; for chest we'd prolly want atks 1-1.5 crit and dex % combo
timid geyser
Yeah, that sounds like an ideal chest. I just nab one from trade site that was decent and under 5ex
dusty umbra
i guess movement speed and pops and better survivability over normal facebreaker builds
also curse ring for ~8% more dps
timid geyser
Yeah, I was looking at curse on hit rings. Getting one for a decent price and capping res is probably a nightmare though
dusty umbra
we also have few outer nodes to work with if we want one of new jewels
the new corrupted jewel is like 700-800% effiency which means it would only give like 40ish base dex so that doesn't look tooo good if my math was correct
timid geyser
My thought process is since you aren't going to beat facebreakers if both builds have "infinite" budget, but I was thinking the build can compete at around the 10-15ex range .
And yeah, new corrupted jewel is pretty what ever. Even if it can roll something like +5 dex +5 life.
dusty umbra
thing about facebreakers is they are bound to use pretty much full uniques - we aren't (rings and belt)
As far as belt we can combine 12% inc attributes on elder belt + x
or hunter belt
timid geyser
Yup 100% an option if you can get freeze immunity on boots or something
dusty umbra
i mean we can get free immun on flask
timid geyser
Yeah, you can do that. I just like having it not on a flask recently. The small QoL is nice
dusty umbra
elder belt 10% life ; 12% attributes from hunter + 3x random mods on stygian 🙂
timid geyser
Yeah sure. If you are throwing boat loads of currency at the build.
dusty umbra
that's my point kind of as well more survivability + option to play with rares
where facebreaker builds cant
since they have to use circle of guilts as they're so dependant on that stuff there
vast gazelle
Take 32% increased lightning damage is huge now that I reread that over
dusty umbra
as long as you don't have inc damage sources already*
timid geyser
I mean even if you do it is still quite large. Assuming you have 100% (quite a lot) from other sources it is about a 15% more multi
and then the sap on top assuming you can apply a decent lightning hit is pretty decent defensively
dusty umbra
Culling gloves is 10% more without any other stats 🙂
timid geyser
Yeah, but these are more than likely <5c unique gloves.
red wharf
so with those unique gloves, cast coldsnap on boss for free 32% more dmg from oos/hoi/storm brand and 20% damage reduction? Seems strong, or i'm not aware of big drawbacks
hasty perch
not more , increased taken stacking with similar sources
and as you deal lightning damage you'll most likely shock
they look pretty good tho
sap is strong , 32% increased taken is a really good amount too
red wharf
yeah, but how many increased dmg taken sources would you have on caster/bomber?
exposure, ele pen?
also, im not sure how 25% chance to proc sap works. Is it 25% per chilled area dot/tick?
red wharf
ah, so 25% on hit
timid geyser
Yeah, it is based off your lightning damage similar to shock.
red wharf
with oos/storm brand and frenzies from badge its going to proc fast i guess
damage wise probably they wont do so much
timid geyser
though keep in mind if you aren't dealing enough damage per hit you won't get a very high value of sap.
red wharf
mm, good to know sap scales
these gloves could be indication ggg is trying to resurrect these new ailments they released few leagues ago (sap being one of them)
via other uniques and/or cluster notables
vital idol
At least it can be shock + Sap unlike the helms that disabled shock
unless it reworked entirly to if mob is shocked it can't be sapped etc
hasty perch
elementalist is not the best ascendancy rn i think it could get some love by adding minimum sap value just like shock tbh
they're also elemental ailments it would make sense
vast gazelle
I asked them in an ama about the alternate ailments and they said they plan to do more with them in upcoming leagues
So I'm hype
Elementalist is in a weird state
It's good specifically with golem and herald stacking
And generically enables a lot of strong stuff that way
But it's not really doing whatever GGG originally intended
patent canyon
well originally elementalist was intended to melt servers with prolif 
faint ravine
I mean Ele is literally good right now because you use its minion nodes for their non-minion stats, while their non-minion nodes suck.
Even the herald node isn't particularly good in comparison to other ascendancies because you have to compare it to two labs worth of ascendancy because the major node before it does nearly stone cold nothing.
And even then you probably can only play ele in very generic builds because the golems eat up at least 4 skill gem sockets.
It's currently not the worst ascendancy (or even close), but it is the worst designed ascendancy imo.
hasty perch
i was talking about the actual elementalist
i mean the elementalist part of elementalist ascendancy :^)
not the golemancer
which is strong yeah
but it doesn't feel like what you're playing should be called elementalist
so i think buffing the part of the ascendancy more elementalist based about elemental ailments could be cool
vast gazelle
triherald is solid even for 2 labs tbh but you have to do a really specific build to use it (generally doomfletch or something)
faint basalt
viperesque, i know you read us, read this and do something 😦 https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/fa2oto/can_we_please_have_another_row_added_to_the_misc/fiysdzy/
silver kettle
If something is a common community complaint and/or hits the front page of Reddit you can safely assume I'm already aware, and probably a bunch of other GGG staff are too. I can't promise anything based on having seen it though. Shit is complicated, and it's not my department so I don't know any of the issues that may be involved
Addressing feature requests directly to me is not going to affect anything though, just wear me out 😛
faint basalt
well, sorry 😛 just loosing my mind about stashes. Will do a post about it, let's see what people can come with
hoary snow
Big hype for the new blade skills
I always wanted a way to have animate weapon be workable without needing uniques
lucid stone
Spellslinger...?
sharp iron
Is Bladeblast a physical damage spell?
vast gazelle
im assuming it is
sharp iron
I didn't see a damage type mentioned
vast gazelle
because all the skills that trigger it are physical damage spells
even if its chaos we're good to go
regardless, unless they explicitly nerf bladefall im prepared
sterile brook
rigid lakeBOT
normal storm
@faint basalt its really not in the best interest of ggg to make stash tabs store more items. By doing so, people wont need to buy as many and their chinese investor wouldnt likely be happy about it.
last river
Blade Blast slots in SO well into existing coc DD builds
Just swap out the skills and supports and you're good to go
Question is whether we can efficiently convert to ele
coral garden
Hmm my bow coc..
Bladefall cascade dmg dmg gems on helm
Wait nvm u dont actually need to spam blast since it chains
vast gazelle
oh hell i didnt even see the fact you can anime the blades that drop
wild arch
Based on the wording seems like they're just white glass shanks tho
Useful in a pinch I guess
timid geyser
They get extra damage from animate weapon vs normal weapons
wild arch
Do they?
timid geyser
similar to a Glass Shank, but Animate Weapon adds bonus physical damage to Ethereal Blades based on the level of the Animate weapon skill, on top of the added damage granted to all weapons by Animate Weapon.
wild arch
Oh
hoary snow
likely won't be as good as a dedicated animate weapon build with some crafted gear but it'll doubtless be less work and see more play than before, which is nice
spice cipher
It’s a nice dps boost
wild arch
I wonder if animated guardian will be allowed to pick up these blades
Not like it's gonna change anything
But the idea is there at least
timid geyser
Probably not. They aren't items from my understanding.
Technically speaking though I guess it is possible.
deep geode
can anyone help me out understanding how the actual mechanic works in maps? like you go through the mirror, then what? is it a timer? or certain amount of enemies killed? or you have to go back through mirror to stop it?
they say go deeper for more loot and harder monsters, but dont you just clear the entire thing?
hoary snow
I'm betting the mirror will be nearer to the start of the area, and once you enter, the area will be affected, with the farther from the mirror being harder and more rewarding, but it'll reset either when you leave, or there'll be a way to revert otherwise
It may be timed, and if so, it'll work like the above but encourage you to travel as far as you can to get the best loot, similar to a mix of legion and synthesis without the annoying synthesis pathing issues
high scaffold
hope there is an'oh shit' button somewhere so that u can just stop the mechanic instantly when u see things too hard... instead of walking away as ziggy video state
spice cipher
I skip the league stuff till like later in a1 or whenever I can handle it
My first meta wrecked me
eager charm
spice cipher
I can imagine some stuff will be overturned
sour mountain
i always engage with the league mechanic at the highest difficulty possible while i'm still wearing the occasional white piece
what do you mean i shouldn't be doing 3 star Betrayal enemies in Caverns of Anger? if i wasn't supposed to do it, the game wouldn't let me 😏
gray ravine
Would we have time to pick up loot though
Incursion only dropped loot after
This is in the map itself so im worried i won't habe sufficient time to loot
sour mountain
you'll be fine, at least on low level areas
just grab currency and move on
100% delirious monsters in the first few zones will be like...
"100% more scrolls of wisdom dropped"
sour mountain
you could use the new skill
arctic briar
3.10 BVBBCoC Assassin (League Starter)
i'm looking forward to this thread in the Shadow sections bois
native sonnet
nope, thats actually so bad
u generate 1 blade and its exploded immediately
dk/dt u get the aoe bonus chain with that
violet nymph
yeah, it'd be self cast BB only
wild arch
Hmmm
Overshock and the new gloves can make enemies take 85% inc lighting damage
Sure would be nice to have some nodes which boost melee ignite in some way
grave valve
ok blade blast neat
gray zealot
cwdt blade blast for coc blade vortex
could get away with cyclone cwc blade vortex
or 2 unleash setups for blade vortex
vestal ether
You think maps with delirium mod will drop in maps?
fading cedar
I don't actually get the new jewels, aren't there too many travel nodes to be worth it? (Unless we're talking about a build-enabling keystone)
patent canyon
yes, you pay initial cost of the outside jewel socket however once inside the jewel all nodes are 100% value with 0 traveling outside connection between another socketed jewel in line
fading cedar
I don't think many builds will have that many points to spend 🤔
patent canyon
its a tradeoff but you can def use on every build
silver kettle
Also remember that in no real circumstance will you be spending 6 points just to reach a notable. These teaser jewels are 1 mod magics
midnight phoenix
Many builds dont get good benefit from their last 20 or 30 points
fading cedar
Oh, I see
patent canyon
as example right side tree build can just make giant ass life cluster on side rather than travel to scion wheel
patent canyon
depends on the nodes of jewels
if its 6% on each and big one it should be better than wheel
midnight phoenix
6% O_o i know viper is reading, no need to comment, but i kinda hope ggg isnt dumping 6% life small nodes in here or im gonna have no nodes on my actual tree
The spoiled stuff we saw was 3% plus 7 flat
Which is about 4%
timid geyser
HIghest I have seen is 4% (I think)
patent canyon
i would like to assume its roll 3-6
midnight phoenix
Scion wheel is usually very roughly 4% if u need to do 4-5 nodes to get there, but theres also fringe benefits liek free jewels
patent canyon
or even if its 5 + flat its fine
timid geyser
The difference between 3% and 6% is huge in terms of passive point efficiency.
midnight phoenix
I will be shocked if its 5+flat and like i said i wont be taking regular nodes at all
That sounds like a giant balance disaster
patent canyon
i mean i doubt life jewels will drop like candy
timid geyser
I think it is safe to assume there won't be stat ranges on passive nodes.
midnight phoenix
Maybe little ones
It'll certainly be fun to play with
Problem with this kind of thing is that players are pretty good at tree optimization alrdy
Once we know all of the options we have for making branching jewel trees it should be very easy to figure out what kind of jewels are efficient
And what kind are worse than ur regular tree nodes
timid geyser
I just don't really seem much reason for the passive to have stat ranges. Besides a divine sink (game honestly has enough at this point) it doesn't really provide much imo besides a balance nightmare.
patent canyon
true, there might not be ranges
midnight phoenix
I havent seen anything op yet
The herald cluster looked good but narrow
Theres a lot of spoilers left tho
coral garden
True. Haven't seen any op ones
timid geyser
I mean they are all just stat increases so all it really means is they are some minor power creep/passive tree efficiency. Not like a new skills with some fundamentally strong mechanics. I guess it is possible some the keystones are OP.
They are cool in the sense they can able builds that would normal have to travel a whole bunch.
IE wander can pick up a cluster jewel for wands and not travel to top side the passive tree.
silver kettle
We tried to also make them interesting by offering some non-interchangeable stats. You've seen those Herald and Warcry notables
midnight phoenix
Ye we have like
230 nodes left to spoil or some shit
Im sure we can find something to do with them
patent canyon
maybe drop 100 of them for useless stuff like stun recovery and resistances
timid geyser
I mean I don't think there will be that many "useless" nodes like stun recovery.
Anything with stuff like that would probably be thrown ontop of something like shield block nodes or something.
patent canyon
cmon, its not ggg loot if there arent useless stuff
timid geyser
idk maybe I'm optimistic, but I feel like 95% of the notables will have some viable application in some build.
anything that will be "useless" will just be due to the fact that numbers wise it will be on the low end.
patent canyon
well yeah there are tons meme and off meta build that will use pretty much all jewel notables but what majority will be using is like 1/10 of all
timid geyser
Yeah, 100% just speculation here. I'm sure I'm wrong on some if not most of my points here.
midnight phoenix
U dont use numbers
patent canyon
worst case just use crit multi ones since that stat is rather sparse on tree
midnight phoenix
I know ggg are gonna try and make some nodes interesting
But u cant make 240 interesting nodes
patent canyon
for sure
silver kettle
Can't argue with that
midnight phoenix
Not gonna lie, i reckon its hard to make 24 interesting nodes
languid path
who need interesting? I just need more dmg
midnight phoenix
So we'll see
Thats my attitude ydro
Im just chasing whatever gives me the biggest numbers
Interesting is for nerds
languid path
then ggg will double sirus hp in poe2 and delegate him to side content and we start a new cycle
primal whale
Honestly I'd prefer build enabling nodes instead of just numbers
timid geyser
That's what keystones are for 🙂
and some notables I guess can do that (looking at warcry node)
midnight phoenix
Like even the shock node technically does some shit u cant rly get anywhere else
silver kettle
And also hopefully just the fact that you can put these in any tree region will enable some stuff where the tree didn't work out before
compact junco
battle cry always felt pretty weird to me. like its so powerful in what it does compared to like any other notable on tree
rough radish
240 nodes, and I’d be surprised if there is no “on hit curses modifier”
midnight phoenix
It might be rly bad because of how shock scales now, sure, but it is actually unique
primal whale
Yeah maybe you can now get more than 2k life as a Ranger 👀
timid geyser
Voltaic rift "am I a joke to you"
silver kettle
Like all those attack inquisitor builds crying
compact junco
voltaxic is actually pretty solid for ele bows on budget imo
timid geyser
I mean the buff makes is kinda viable if you really want to do a shock based support character.
compact junco
only issue is that its so uncommon item
midnight phoenix
Ye its a ok budget item but its also quite annoying to source early
compact junco
but you can scale it to usable numbers with basically nothing
primal whale
Would be kinda cool to see a travel cluster jewel.. like you socket into the right side near Acro and then you can allocate points starting from the jewel socket above Resolute Technique
midnight phoenix
Point is if for some reason u want 60% shocks on a actual good weapon
patent canyon
narnia jewel
timid geyser
Why travel to a different part of the tree if you can just build your own 
primal whale
Idk if you wanna build a Raider with Swords you dont have to spend 100 points traveling over there
midnight phoenix
Hey yeah i can use jewel sockets to patch over my terrible meme builds that need 40 travel nodes
Where did i put that champion summoner build
Or that strength stacking trickster
timid geyser
I mean raider with swords. Unless you need something like RT in theory you should be able to legit spend 20+ points on sword nodes via cluster jewels.
primal whale
Maybe, depends on that cluster jewels
Hoenstly everything I wanna see from the Clusterjewel is a keystone for bows:
"Bows can now deal single target damage"
timid geyser
Barrage is a thing.
compact junco
that is easy
primal whale
Barrage sucks
compact junco
just get cluster jewel that is worth 20ex
now you can make bow that does single target
primal whale
Just craft a 600 pDPS bow, whats the problem 4Head
rough radish
timid geyser
Also wasn't first sirus kill done on a bow build with insane levels of dps?
rough radish
Why craft when you can just buy 
primal whale
Just pick it up as a random rare
quiet geyser
With blade blast, cant you make some realy stupid spell cast loop, cast when dmg taken, build?
you have 3 skills supplying you with knives and 1 6 link nuke
compact junco
there is cap of 50 based on the news post
timid geyser
@compact junco look at the numbers I'm now thinking blade burst doesn't get radius but rather more area of effect per BV blade. Similar to how reave works.
compact junco
hmm i guess that makes sense
timid geyser
My guesstimating puts BV radius @ 29 and blade burst w/ 9 bv stacks @ 80 give or take
So that puts it in line very similar to reave base radius (22 or 33 w/ inc aoe no more multi) and having 450% more area of effect (50% per stack)
compact junco
hmm so that would mean that char had ~45% inc aoe from tree and pendulum active as you were saying
timid geyser
Yeah, I went and grab pendulum + witch/templar aoe
compact junco
so that isnt even big investment and you can def push it a lot higher
timid geyser
It was about what looked right from the video and would make sense in a build.
So with inc aoe + carcass jack and assume it is 500% more aoe at 10 bv stacks something like 100+ radius is possible
like this 
compact junco
lol
timid geyser
Honestly though it doesn't seem that crazy consider the fact it does consume your BV charges. Still pretty nutty aoe.
compact junco
well idk, it gives fair use to unleash seals stacking
timid geyser
Also all this is assume the video is max zoom out. So honestly could be 100% wrong with these guesses.
compact junco
5 seals + BB to just pop the screen
steep plover
seals recharge once per 0.71 seconds though? which is kinda slow if you need to get back up to 10 stacks for every screen
timid geyser
Also went and check the article "the area of the Blade Blast is multiplied, gaining over three times the area on the tenth blade destroyed." is about in line with what my numbers.
Also possible my guessing could be off a bit and end up being 33% more area per blade. putting it at 330% more area rather than 500% more area..
This would take the 102 radius above down to 86 radius
All this is assume base radius is 22. Honestly could be anything though.
bright perch
the area doesn't seem all that crazy. The demo video shows BV with some massive aoe scaling, if I am not mistaken. Look at the Herald of Ash explosions, that's about 200-300% inc aoe from my experience.
timid geyser
Keep in mind it is getting 75% alone from pendulum of destruction
limpid wigeon
Do we have any idea how the affixes for cluster jewels work? Based on how jewels usually work I would assume they cap out at 4 mods, and I would also assume that notables & small passive mods are seperated by suffix/prefix
fathom lintel
Bv bb seems interesting
limpid wigeon
but on the trailer page "Brood Ruin" has 2 notables and a jewel socket
sockets to me seem like they would be more in the notable pool than the small passives pool
this is the jewel I am referring to
There's also another jewel on that page that has 2 small passive affixes, a notable, and a jewel socket.
which doesn't really make sense to me unless there is notables in both the suffix and prefixes
OR that they can have up to 6 mods on them
wanton flower
These new cluster passives still require skill points right?
timid geyser
Yes
dusky kernel
i think an ele witch bv with blade blast can be a very active playstyle
you wait for pendulum and nuke the screen
otherwise youre just playing BV
limpid wigeon
BV with BB seems a little silly to me
dusky kernel
it gives BV a bit more speed if you time it right
and that is rewarding gameplay
how much of value that is however
is up to the player to decide
and i think largely the meta will deem it as garbo
limpid wigeon
its not very important for clearing
wanton flower
can we add these cluster jewels to every jewel slot?
dusky kernel
didnt say it was important per se
im saying more like, its rewarding mechanical play
limpid wigeon
its almost certainly solely a bossing aid, get max stacks then drop the blast, repeat
it just depends on if the damage is worth the sockets
dusky kernel
the numbers will make it if its worth it or required or what have you
wanton flower
"Cry Wolf: 30% increased Warcry duration, 30% increased Warcry buff effect, Warcries count as having 10 additional nearby enemies." stacking a lot of these with rallying cry could be decent? 😛
dusky kernel
but just the idea of, using blade blast with BV to time an explosion
is a good enough of change to the skill interaction we
we've kinda became bored on
limpid wigeon
idk it just doesnt seem like it fits the bv playstyle at all, which is to stack up and then run nonstop
wanton flower
how many cluster jewels can we have equipped
limpid wigeon
as many as you want but they cant daisy chain off each other forever
as far as im aware
dusky kernel
yea they daisy chain in terms of the cluster size they produce
since they have cluster requirements
they always produce a smaller cluster than the required cluster they need to be socketed in
wanton flower
The rallying cry node seems very nice
limpid wigeon
idk about the warcry node
timid geyser
Main limiter is outter jewel socets + passive points.
limpid wigeon
warcries are just kind of a pain to use
dusky kernel
vipre said there are other warcry nodes
limpid wigeon
and rallying is not especially good
wanton flower
every one you socket in counts as +10 enemies, and gain more damage per as well
dusky kernel
so im excited to make abyssal cry work
limpid wigeon
yeah but think of how many passives that is
languid path
everyone and their mom are gonna cwc the shit out of these skills
wanton flower
true 😄
limpid wigeon
also good luck getting 10
limpid wigeon
at best you might be able to fit 3 clusters on a reasonable build
i doubt you would go for multiple starting points, they're 3 a pop and most builds only path naturally past one at most
dusky kernel
i liked what mathil said about the clusters
"Is this just how they buff scion"
this is the scion buff, just being able to have more skill points lol
limpid wigeon
i think it all relies on the small passives
if all of the small passives are about as bad as the ones we've seen i don't see large cluster jewels being used basically at all
wanton flower
I wish I could just edit items into an offline version to test these things
You can make a build which just grabs every jewel socket and make it viable
Just requires like 20 mirrors to make it 😂
patent canyon
tops 2 clusters max imo
timid geyser
Viper has done some testing around using multiple voices jewels. You can read his posts in this channel I think about them.
patent canyon
traveling becomes too much after imo
limpid wigeon
i agree, i think most builds will probably be happy with a medium > small cluster setup
timid geyser
wanton flower
scions get +6 skillpoints right
limpid wigeon
something like that
dusky kernel
radius jewels can't see passives added by cluster jewels, period
thats important to note
prevents intuitive leap
dusky kernel
yea
i enjoyed my triple might of the meek scion when poets pen was released
that was a fun league
limpid wigeon
large cluster jewels seem like they can add 8-12 small passives
obviously less is better unless you roll % max life which might be worth it
thats a lot of travel
even assuming that yoou only need to take half of those because of the ring shape (unlikely based on the visuals we've seen), that's 7 points of travel to your cluster notable minimum
actually im wrong
its not "small passives", its just "passives", so the more notables/sockets you get the less travelling you're doing
still they seem seperated by at least one small node
that overshock one they revealed is an absolutely terrible looking cluster jewel but thats because its only magic, if it had more notables it'd be spread more out and more accessible
karmic sphinx
I'm still waiting for lightning dot
timid geyser
I expect lightning damage to stay hit based for quite some time.
shut wagon
any meta expected by now? Iam not deep into calc. and min/maxing. Only thing that i see the new Clusters could gave free spots for jewels
That means for me: Golemancer could be strong cause main dmg come froms jewels
limpid wigeon
meta doesn't exist until we get some word on what happens to summoners
timid geyser
All voices does is allow golemancer to get about 3ish more jewel sockets. Doesn't really make them OP. Just a nice little damage boost.
limpid wigeon
we know that cluster jewels can have multiple jewel sockets, even ones that arent voices
so its possible you could get a ridiculous amount of jewel sockets
timid geyser
I mean golemancer literally only cares about jewel sockets.
limpid wigeon
i dont know exactly how it works but if i understand correctly voices could reasonably turn 1 jewel socket into 8
timid geyser
No it can turn 1 jewel socket in 3
limpid wigeon
6 at least
timid geyser
It gives you 3 medium cluster jewel sockets.
You can't socket a voices into a voices.
limpid wigeon
but you could but cluster jewels with 2 jewel sockets into those
timid geyser
Yeah, but that isn't passive point efficient.
limpid wigeon
it might be
if a golemancer only cares about jewel sockets
it might be less points to grab the 8 with voices + 3 multi socket cluster jewels
than to make a trip across the passive tree
6* not 8
of course this is assuming this is even poossible
but i dont see why it wouldnt be
this is a jewel with 8 passives, so it is a large cluster jewel
if you can only get 2 jewel sockets on large jewels then it isnt possible
but if you can get it on medium ones then its doable
right?
or maybe voices even allows large ones
to be branched out of it
timid geyser
No, large cluster jewels can not be socketed into voices.
Only medium, small, or normal jewels.
limpid wigeon
well then it all depends on if you can get 2 jewel sockets from medium cluster jewels
also has pretty big implications for abyss jewel stacking builds
timid geyser
In that case yeah, it would help the efficiency a bit. from like 2.3 passive per jewel socket to probably just under 2 passive points per jewel
Though with that said I feel like medium clusters can only roll 1 jewel.
limpid wigeon
i would probably agree
seems pretty insane that you might be able to turn one jewel socket into 6, regardless of travel required
19 skill points for 6 sockets
not quite 2 pointers but
timid geyser
It would be 16 passive points
limpid wigeon
16? 3 for the initial, 4 for voices, then 4x3 for the cluster jewels woouldn't it?
timid geyser
Medium cluster can have 4 passive points. So In that case you only need to spend 3 points to get both jewel sockets.
timid geyser
Unless for some reason the cluster spawns in a non-circle formation.
limpid wigeon
mediums look like they can have up to 6 or 7
at the very least 6, im looking through the trailer if i can see a 7
limpid wigeon
large clusters seem very bad to me
unless they are intentionally showing us only 4 mod large jewels when they can hit 6 or something
the only way i can see large ones being worth it is if you're very intent on daisy chaining a lot of clusters together
which seems point inefficient
red wharf
killing all bandits could start being valuable option in 3.10
compact junco
rip alira
red wharf
i think alira will be fine, killing all bandits might be just a minmaxing for endgame, so later respec
limpid wigeon
i mean all bandits is already valuable
any build that doesn't want crit multi takes it
and even some that do can find a more useful place for 2 passives
patent canyon
i think that i used alira like once...
quaint swift
So... Sirus awaken 8 delirium 5 race next league?
jovial flax
cant wait for some rediciolous jewels to just give "added small passive skills also grant: 1% reduced mana reservation"
mellow hatch
Oh yes please
bright perch
"added small passive skills don't require passive points to allocate"
steep plover
I'm just waiting for "added small passives grant 10% increased aura effect"
because you know someone will do the triple purity build and be immune to all damage
bright perch
not possible anymore afaik, they introduced a hard cap for max resistances
steep plover
oh, when was that?
timid geyser
3.6. synth league
steep plover
pitty
timid geyser
GGG got tried of all the immortal delve builds so they stopped it all.
steep plover
hmmm, what else would be abusable then....
10% increased AoE nodes?
go for the biggest AoE you've ever seen 😄
timid geyser
increased AoE suffers pretty badly from diminishing returns.
bright perch
playing a str stacking build with high aoe scaling. 300%+ right now, feels pretty good :)
steep plover
something simple like mana nodes would be fairly abusable. Any extra easily obtainable mana sources are a big boost for mana guardians / heirophants
bright perch
mob explode mods with huge aoe are fun. Scaling those even more could be neat
sour mountain
r.e. large clusters; yes, i think a big part of that will be daisy chaining. you'll really want to daisy chain off a large Life cluster
low kindle
if all jewels can roll the same amount of mods (4), 12 point clusters are just bad
because you want notables, not small passives
sour mountain
depends on what the small passives end up being i guess
like... if they're +life, +%life, +es or the modifier that makes the small modifiers better... those smalls are the best smalls in the game
low kindle
life and es are the only exceptions
sour mountain
or like..
+phys+lightning, or +cold+fire damages
for the sake of phys to lightning and cold to fire shenanigans since there's nowhere else to abuse them on the tree really
but even then... yeah i think they're not gonna make smalls quite valuable enough
unless the values are about as big as notables lol
im also curious how many people are looking at wheels with jewel sockets and just thinking about terminating with normal jewels/abyssal jewels but i think that's going to be a function of how many of each of those we see
tulip warren
there's no limit to the # of that unique 3x cluster jewel, so a typical build can fit two of those in fairly easily. My guess is that the power level of the best cluster jewels puts them at least above that
hasty perch
It's probs like jeweks yeah
Jewels*
Once you have the money it's always the best choice
mellow hatch
Yes there is a limit, can only socket a cluster jewel in sockets made by a larger jewel, or in the tree
sour mountain
i'm honestly not really sure, i think it might not be particularly efficient? but i'm not sure
hasty perch
Can be quite fun tho having several voices branching into medium and small clusters 3 times
sour mountain
i think voices is only particularly interesting when you're doing something like golemancer, or you're just filling it with 3 very good jewels
though if you get 3 great cluster jewels, why not use it
hasty perch
As lon as you got good enough jewels it's probably often the better use of an outer jewel
If we compare the power level of normal nodes and cluster ones
sour mountain
it's gonna be like...
mellow hatch
Voices into 3x abyss jewels
hasty perch
Might be real expensive yeah
sour mountain
if you're not... mehhh
hasty perch
And some archetypes will be entirely different
sour mountain
also it'll be very good for what i'm 100% sure is the sleeper op strat this league
hasty perch
Like adding several times flat crit to heralds allowing for non assassin bombers
sour mountain
vaal orbing for -mana reserve corrupt on jewels
hasty perch
Like 2 voices gets you 6% flat crit on herald
timid geyser
Yeah, voices is a large cluster jewel btw
hasty perch
And i want to try stacking the aoe while stationnary nodes for meme builds
sour mountain
i thought it was med 🤔
hasty perch
K then one voice is 6% herald crit
timid geyser
hasty perch
Pathfinder autobomber because assassin wasn't fast enough
storm crown
Wonder If they are gonna be able to be vaaled like normal jewels
sour mountain
inb4 corrupts into new unique cluster jewels
timid geyser
I think the question is more will their vaal outcomes be different from regular jewels.
hasty perch
Might be a bit strong
storm crown
Geting extra mana reservation sounds nice
hasty perch
Like -mana reserved
storm crown
I wouldnt be shocked If one or more of them 280 notes are a aura one
sour mountain
mana reservation will be very strong if it appears
hasty perch
I just hope they didn't show only the interesting ones
And we end up with 250 garbo rolls
storm crown
With 280 i think there is gonna be something for everyone
storm crown
Do we know how The jewel look like for The herald?
storm crown
Ye but what small ones did it add?
timid geyser
storm crown
The overshock one was lightning damage increase
sour mountain
overshock seems pretty great
storm crown
Ok, so small ones are increased damage while herald 🤔
sour mountain
i dont think that small mod, on its own, is particularly compelling
storm crown
Question is If I get jewel with this implicit of herald all noticable Will be ones in that pool
mellow hatch
Possible notables almost certainly are tied to the enchantment
sour mountain
i do believe that the notables a jewel can get are based on the enchantment
storm crown
Would be strange geting small ones increase melee damage and then roll a big one into something with spelldamage
sour mountain
otherwise you'll just get completely nonsensical notables on a jewel
storm crown
Indeed
sour mountain
though it also may be derived from the secondary small node perks you get
storm crown
Small nodes increase melee damage while the noticable increasing spell damage would be very strange
sour mountain
like maybe you get... white jewel, +life per small, transmute charge and gives a life notable, aug and get +resists, regal and get +resist notable
timid geyser
Yeah, that is confirmed how it works. Enchant modifies what mods roll on the jewel.
sour mountain
transmute stone rather
storm crown
Do its a pool of noticable for that type?
sour mountain
maybe, not sure
like it could be that that herald modifier only shows up with that herald enchant... or it might also appear with a crit enchant
timid geyser
I don't know the specifics but I'm pretty sure it makes it impossible to roll unrelated mods.
storm crown
Would make sense If its only shown up on jewels with herald effects
sour mountain
which would feel absolutely awful if it rolled on a crit enchant
hasty perch
the small herald node is not too bad tbh
it's 10% global damage
while affected by heralds
timid geyser
global increased damage would scale the same exact way as any other increased damage.
hasty perch
global is the 2nd best kind of damage
behind minion damage if you have minion damage applies to global :^)
so it's pretty nice to have
storm crown
Global dont affects minions 😑
sour mountain
6l herald of purity and agony
sour mountain
i would unironically love 6l holy relic
storm crown
Doing 1 mil dps with whats not to like about it 😏
sour mountain
cant you like give it impale and then just start slamming whatever speedy strike you have
timid geyser
More realistically you either just scale via conversion or just pure phys. Minions have pretty poor scaling for DoTs like ignite and poison.
sour mountain
isnt the whole gimmick with holy relic that you just jack up your attack speed super high
and it'll cast every time you attack
vital idol
Punchy boi cyclone
storm crown
@sour mountain can make it nova 4 Times a sec
vital idol
Punchy boi impale cyclone...
sour mountain
if i'm gonna play punch
it's gonna be smite/cons path
cons path is prob actually doable?
vital idol
I'd imagine, convert all phys to lightning I'd guess?
I only used conc path in leveling
No idea how to properly play it
sour mountain
mouselock and hold the button down
vital idol
How to build around it
sour mountain
id probably say you wanna convert it to pure elemental and work from there? dunno how tho
storm crown
Doesnt The gloves do it by itself?
sour mountain
you can wear no gloves
storm crown
Probly not holy relic with that hahs
sour mountain
doesn't punchy boi get quite good attack speed? 🤔
vital idol
There is prooably a conversion notable in one of the 280
storm crown
Relic is still limited by 4 attacks a sec
sour mountain
i dont think you want phys to cold
vital idol
Prooably won't think much of builds till full notable list and patch notes
vital idol
Most likely I'll end up doing cyclone or something
wild arch
If you're feeling brave you can try punchy chieftain
storm crown
I know i Will. Minion 😉
vital idol
Punchy boi zerker
wild arch
50% Phys to fire, and periodic 100% Phys as extra fire
sour mountain
just play mana guardian
actually i think if you want to play punchies you're gonna need to be duelist or ranger? maybe, idk
wild arch
Melee hierophant time
sour mountain
heirophant cycling between fire/lightning cons paths and glacial cascades
vital idol
Punchy Scion
wild arch
That's inquisitor
sour mountain
oh oops
wild arch
Hierophant is the spell totem dude
wild arch
You can still do melee hiero
And I reckon it could be pretty solid now thanks to the cluster jewels
sour mountain
im expecting we could see some good brand or totem cluster jewels
if you can get something like +brand on the enchant, then start fishing for ele, fire or lightning damage on the mods? maybe nice?
wild arch
But
Melee hiero 
Then again... I say melee, but with all that inc aoe you're gonna be offscreening everything
sour mountain
why arent you playing brand totems
storm crown
Oneshoting screen is what poe is
wild arch
Because I have no interest in builds that don't involve me applying the damage directly
And rules are mere suggestions
sour mountain
inb4... deliriumized syndicate members drop Focus-related cluster jewels 🤔
wild arch
That sounds interesting
Increased focus duration nodes could be neat
With like an increased effect of focus notable
bright perch
I want to deliriumize a map, then corrupt it to corrupt the delirium effect :D
native sonnet
at the cost of not being able to equip any other items
sour mountain
at the cost of the only skill you can use is cyclone
storm crown
want tier 19 meta with delirium what can go wrong
mellow hatch
Dual wield wings of entropy
sour mountain
and no cwc/coc
mellow hatch
Wait...
wild arch
My idea was to give it a damage penalty that makes them deal roughly the same damage as one handed weapons
native sonnet
spell builds say hi
wild arch
Disable spells
The buff gruthkul's pelt deserves
Damn
Now that's an idea
Gruthkul with hollow palm
Who needs to cast spells when you got no sockets for them anyway
sour mountain
gruthkul's
kaom's chest, kaom's boots, dance with death for no helm
thief's torment to disable second ring slot
wild arch
I still want to have dash
wild arch
That's a thing?
sour mountain
yeah it's a talisman, cant remember the name
slender temple
Triple breach with double beyond delirium map
sour mountain
don't forget to start a legion encounter in the middle of the breach
storm crown
want a meta at the end as well 😛
hasty perch
and then servers goes "we don't do that here"
storm crown
_Å
hasty perch
an unexpected disconnection occured
storm crown
needs to be tier 19 with extra packs 😛
radiant lance
So how rare do we think the whole hollow palm jewel is gonna be 
radiant lance
It doesn't do anything for me but seems like everyone is hyped about it
slender temple
Yeah cuz it is monk build jewel haha
silver kettle
flavour~~
slender temple
I wanna know if scions will be meta now because of the extra skill tree shenanigans
And is it noteables and passives only or will we get keystones too
radiant lance
Would scion not be the worst
slender temple
Maybe but they get extra skill ppoints
radiant lance
I guess but it's only a couple so probably not that big of a deal
Lots of people still hate scion
native sonnet
We already saw keystones
slender temple
And will timeless jewels be able to hit these new skills?
native sonnet
So yes keystones
I
No
Check out the pinned thread on Reddit, lots of info already there
radiant lance
We do get new keystone, but no they don't interact with regular jewels in any way
radiant lance
Ggg already mentioned that you can't do weird overlap shenanigans like with thread of hope
native sonnet
It fundamentally doesn’t work
radiant lance
I think the way it's setup on the backend basically makes the interactions impossible
So probably not a worry
slender temple
well i mean we'll find some cool interactions
man this league is gonna be exciting
violet nymph
280 new notables, like
violet nymph
every single build will have a use for one of them
i have to get 3 voices and 17 other unique jewels for one of the builds i'm doing
i'll be quite annoyed if it turns out there's a +1 golem notable
slender temple
what will be best choice for monk build? slayer? jugg? zerker?
violet nymph
champion
oh shit
you think if there's a "minions summoned recently can't be damaged" notable
there might also be
"totems summoned recently can't be damaged"
😍
slender temple
i want to to know WHAT SPELLSLINGER IS
is it a brand support gem
or osmething
it sounds like a support gem
barren crescent
The jewel enables DoFL for skellies 
violet nymph
i bet it's a trigger spell support
you put two spells in
when you hit an enemy with one of them, the other is triggered
neither is disabled to use
would make a lot of skills less clunky
ED/C, blade blast, etc
FLAME SURGE
etc
violet nymph
i'd personally use it while playing ED cause i hate doublecasting per pack
timid geyser
@slender temple I'm putting money it turns spell into reservation and triggers on attack with wands. Or something along those lines..
For reason why check out the EK part of the blade blast video
violet nymph
if it's literally poet's pen support i'm gonna be mad
wild arch
Double dip on poets themselves?
unkempt notch
Lol seems like a lot of ppl don't seem to get these these new jewels are craftable and you're not actually spending 10 points for 1 notable
violet nymph
yeah, you can put more notables on it
wild arch
The 132% inc chaos damage that wheel has makes my poisons happy 
unkempt notch
Yea don't get me wrong its not like the small nodes are even really that bad
That's a bunch of damage you potentially don't have to travel further for
formal crypt
I'm not interested in this chaos notable. I hope there are others which are actually good for CA
unkempt notch
I wonder if we're gonna see people having big stat requirement issues because they go all in on a large jewel socket tree rather than travel anywhere
violet nymph
it's on hit though
formal crypt
Not on a skill that barely hits
violet nymph
CA doesn't hit much
wild arch
Then hit more 4head
violet nymph
you don't scale accuracy enough for hits to be consistent with CA
wild arch
Hold it
formal crypt
let me know when there's a chaos multi notable or more aoe
wild arch
The inc damage is on hindered enemies
unkempt notch
Well it applies to all hits so you could do mirage Archer toxic rain or a spell to spam hits
wild arch
You can drop a blight totem or something to hinder them
formal crypt
Yeah it's fine for toxic rain, not CA
formal crypt
But I'm playing CA
dusty umbra
Finally a hinder without needing the timeless jewel
violet nymph
you could already get abyss jewels with hinder lol
dusty umbra
also easy access to + chaos dmg since chaos dmg wheel is so spread out
@violet nymph meant the inc dmg from it
5% more but still
the new wheels are good for my toxic rain from this league
formal crypt
I just want to know how bad the life wheel will be, no way that it's actually usable
dusty umbra
since TR was spread out and now i can focus on going outer instead of pathing all the way to scionwheel or some shit
unkempt notch
A 3% life wheel was teased wasn't it?
violet nymph
i really really don't feel like messing with my TR build to accodmodate for this node lol
unkempt notch
It's worth for right side characters that don't wanna go to scion I think
violet nymph
my tree can't fit new jewel stuff
dusty umbra
@violet nymph i can probably cut the bottom side completely to go for something else
violet nymph
what on earth is that tree
dusty umbra
the left conduit node is due to timeless jewel (doryani) ; right far jewel is thread of hope for phase acro + silent steps
rigid lakeBOT
dusty umbra
the conduit is already mentioned doyrani life as ES jewel
violet nymph
rigid lakeBOT
violet nymph
i haven't really done anything to scale the damage of the build
dusty umbra
my dmg is actually like 1.5-2x of what pob shows
dusty umbra
i mean that 285k dot dmg
not the overall
285k is like 10m
but it's like 1.5 of that actually since timeless jewel and some other shit
violet nymph
how much is that 52k then lol
dusty umbra
depends on your aspeed/proj number/aoe as well dont have that calculator on hand
like 2-3m?
violet nymph
probably less than that lol
just comparing our aspd
and because i'm going for low investment
formal crypt
If you want more there's the mana outer jewel by the chaos wheel
dusty umbra
It's a trickster we at 4.7k hp + 2k es if i go doryani
as well as acro/phase acro and evade
violet nymph
pff 125
dusty umbra
i played it this league this is 10x as survivable as some 6-7k hp builds
vast gazelle
Pff 6.7k hp in 2020 
dusty umbra
vast gazelle
I meme but I wouldn't trust that ehp level in high reds, dodge or no
dusty umbra
formal crypt
I think pathfinder might be better this league for interacting with the wheel jewels than trickster for caustic arrow, any thoughts?
violet nymph
gonna play this sometime next league. level 82 tree, 3 outer sockets all with voices in them for 17 jewels total. it's a golemancer lol
formal crypt
We saw life, bow, and flask notables
Might be easier to get 50% increased flask effect
dusty umbra
pointless on this build as flasks are mostly utility here at least for tr i played
violet nymph
yes you can put normal jewels
autumn snow
can't you put a medium cluster with two jewel sockets 
formal crypt
woah
autumn snow
so you get 6 jewel sockets per outer jewel
violet nymph
maybe but i have like 4.5m shaper dps with the 17 i'll be using
no need to invest more
formal crypt
But that drastically increase the points cost
timid geyser
Yeah, I was talking to someone out that. Depends if it is possible.
If medium jewels can have 2 sockets then yeah. It is very point efficent.
timid geyser
Not quite following what you are saying there tbh.
violet nymph
have we seen medium cluster jewels with 2 jewel sockets
timid geyser
I haven't been able to find one.
violet nymph
i have a feeling you can't do that
timid geyser
Yeah, considering mediums and roll as low as 4 passive points I highly doubt it is possible.
wanton rivet
Is it possible to socket abyss jewels into the expansion slots like those from the voices
native sonnet
yes
wanton rivet
dang ok
storm crown
if you use voice remember if you dont use the 2 passives before the jewel socket you use 4 passives that does nothing