to ppay around with it
#1┃mirage-league
worldly scaffold
timid geyser
Yeah, you get a lot of attack speed from the jewel
worldly scaffold
btw are you using rigwalds curse?
timid geyser
Yeah using rigwalds
The attributes are little scuffed in that PoB btw
Too lazy to fix it
worldly scaffold
shame cyclone is like the only good unarmed skill
other than high aoe doryanis fist
timid geyser
Yup
worldly scaffold
also why slayer instead of zerker
native sonnet
oh rip timeless jewel's interaction with the new clusters
worldly scaffold
wait holy fuck zerker might hit like 22as per sec
timid geyser
Honestly not really any reason. I just picked slayer cause why not.
worldly scaffold
never liked slayer
tbh
havent played a single duelist since they buffed all of the duelist ascendancies, will hopefully fix thst next league
rip lucien said a baddie word
worldly scaffold
like my barrage nova project is a lil stupid
violet nymph
anyway 18 jewel golemancer that also has life and soul of steel seems kinda nice
might actually play it
depends on how expensive voices is
and how expensive the golem jewels are
worldly scaffold
theyre cheap
timid geyser
Wait ziggyd confirms in his video that split personality will have different bonuses.
timid geyser
Probably ice golem
violet nymph
i really don't know how to set up golemancer lol
worldly scaffold
ice golem = cyclones
fire golem = spells
stone golem = idk man impale big boom slam
chaos =
grave belfry
New skill looks niiiice
worldly scaffold
lightning = just bad
violet nymph
you probably wouldn't want to use primordial chain if you're full speccing into golems
worldly scaffold
yeah you wouldnt
timid geyser
Honestly though the difference in clear from ice vs flame isn't worth the single target loss imo
violet nymph
so just ice?
worldly scaffold
yeah go ice
snow cairn
aren't carrion decent too?
worldly scaffold
carrion are fairly decent too yeah
violet nymph
you'd want 1 carrion golem at least
worldly scaffold
but they kill frames
timid geyser
Nah, carrion golem does nothing
worldly scaffold
okay spikey and lucien and robert
timid geyser
Realistically you probably do use primodial chain btw.
timid geyser
night 🙂
worldly scaffold
with ice golems? yeah bcs movement speed makes cyclone much faster
violet nymph
oh right carrion only does things for not-golems
worldly scaffold
which is worth the damage loss
timid geyser
Yeah, and the damage gain from the 3 golems is well worthwhile
worldly scaffold
with flame golems not really, as they usually work as artillery after you convocate them
violet nymph
oh right
worldly scaffold
I mean you still get worse dps than without it
worldly scaffold
but QoL is there for ice/stone golems
wouldnt bother with primordial on flames
okay I have to go now baiiiii
violet nymph
now to figure out links. probably not gonna use chain
the one that's 6led would be the one i'm using most of
timid geyser
How many max golems do you have?
violet nymph
6, at the moment
timid geyser
2x clay shaper?
timid geyser
nvm I can't count don't mind me. But yeah you'd want to run a 4/1/1 probably if you have 6 max golems
timid geyser
It might be 3/1/1/1 honestly I'm not 100% sure on the ratio for 6 golems
I think there is spreadsheet around for it.
violet nymph
now, you have 1 anima stone obviously
but if i have 17 other sockets how do i divide them between the 3 primordial jewels
timid geyser
Basically you want to spam Primordial Harmony on ice golems to lower their cyclone CD.
violet nymph
1 primordial might for aggressive?
violet nymph
is eminence even necessary
timid geyser
You still want to run a couple of those
jolly radish
wonder if we'll get any bane or chaos notables
so does this delirium change your map itself to the delirium effect for a duration or is it until you die, or do you just keep getting deeper in the map and it gets harder then runs out? idk if anything like that is out yet
violet nymph
well they did say if you retreat the delirium stops
so if you die it probably stops too
violet nymph
but the delirium maps probably stay that way
silver kettle
The normal encounter is on a timer as well
jolly radish
GGG in my discord? its more likely than you think
violet nymph
i sure hope voices isn't ridiculously expensive 😏
dreamy karma
woah woah woah, hide your macros
silver kettle
And to your previous point: I can't emphasise enough how many notables 280 is. The normal tree has about 250 for comparison. If there's a single build that doesn't have desirable nodes from cluster jewels we've made a mistake
jolly radish
Whats gonna confuse me is certain maps with layouts that cant work if 'retreating' ceases it, like maps that are in a straight line like shore for example where you can just run around in a square, but what if you backtrack cus you have to go into another room and it ceases
timid geyser
Wait there is a total of 280 notables. God damn....
violet nymph
unless there's a +1 golem notable, golemancers are just gonna get like 3 voices and have 18 jewels on a tree that also has actual defense
jolly radish
i wonder if loot drops from mobs instantaneously in delirium as well or if they pool together at the end of the delirium zone, would love to kill loads of mobs in a delirium state and then when it ends the loot just pops up like incursion
i doubt it'll be like that tho
jolly radish
5 orbs = 4+1 from legion 4 way timeless?
timid geyser
You sure about 17?
violet nymph
there are 8 jewels that aren't corner jewels
11 total
the 3 corner jewels each have 3 attached
so 9 more
8+9 = 17
timid geyser
Okay, I just can't count
snow cairn
isn't each edge jewel 6?
deep wave
3
snow cairn
voices + 3x 2 socket medium jewels?
violet nymph
this is what voices does
snow cairn
voice is a large
native sonnet
voice is large
snow cairn
mediums can have 2 sockets
violet nymph
okay it's probably a waste of nodes to move down a step lol
i'm sticking to the tree i have right now
snow cairn
so you get 26 jewel sockets pretty sure
violet nymph
pfff
native sonnet
sure u could, but is it efficient
violet nymph
since when can you do that
wild arch
Oh boy, hollow palm poison 
timid geyser
oh no no no 
violet nymph
so what links do i put on the support golems that are only there for their effects
minion life? meat shield?
wild arch
Yeah they just need to survive
storm crown
are you using other minions as well or? @violet nymph
storm crown
meatsheild does make the golem taunt just so you know
violet nymph
that's probably not a bad thing
to be honest i'm more interested in what links the ice golem should have
wild arch
It also makes them stick closer to you so they're less likely to run off and die
violet nymph
or what auras i should be running if any
timid geyser
He is an okay level 100 21 jewel socket golem tree if you want a bit more glass cannon http://poeurl.com/cKHn
wild arch
Hollow palm's flat damage should apply to poison right?
timid geyser
Yup.
violet nymph
i don't like glass cannon
last axle
why not
timid geyser
It should work, biggest issue I see with it though is you'd be playing a poison build with 14 gem sockets.
last axle
are u afraid exile?
timid geyser
I mean I wouldn't play the tree I linked in HC.
violet nymph
anyway, what does 6l ice golem look like
wild arch
14 gems? What
timid geyser
Body 6, boots 4, helm 4, and maybe rings if you use unset
violet nymph
weird
timid geyser
You can't use weapons, shield, or gloves with unarmed jewel.
timid geyser
it is physical damage yes.
wild arch
I never use more than 6 link, 3 link for movement and an aura or 2 heralds
timid geyser
I mean then you just aren't using your gem slots effectively.
wild arch
And your point is?
timid geyser
Well, well first you obviously have you 6L main ability. Then you would like to have a defensive setup like cwdt something, you probably want plague bearer for clear, you should really have a wither setup, then you have your auras, movement skill, ect.
violet nymph
this should work i suppose
violet nymph
then explain the above links lmao
last axle
timid geyser
I'd drop minion speed for empower
violet nymph
yeah seems everyone uses empower
last axle
why not just carrion golem kappa
timid geyser
Empower technically isn't the best for damage, but I like it a lot for the extra minion life.
last axle
wild arch
I have a feeling people just throw whatever they're levelling up for trade
violet nymph
i didn't have empower specced cause i'm not using primordial chain
so the golems won't be cycloning very fast
timid geyser
There are a lot of supports better than minion speed though.
wild arch
Ice is weird
violet nymph
i guess i could just use flesh offering occasionally
last axle
is it just me or does ice golem seem very underwhelming attack wise 
wild arch
Wasn't fire the go to for golemancers before carrion?
snow cairn
yeah, fire was the OG
stone is supposed to be good if you can get the cd to match up with multistrike to make it only slam
violet nymph
someone was telling me ice is best for singletarget, and it wasn't really good to sacrifice that for the clear of fire
last axle
yeh i dont see why would one pick ice over carrion 
snow cairn
although i heard you need woke multistrike for that
wild arch
Carrion is stronk 
last axle
poe makes lag 
wild arch
Has anyone actually tried chaos golems after their little changes?
timid geyser
4 new skills this league
wild arch
4 skills and 3 supports
dreamy karma
ooh
wild arch
They haven't revealed them all yet
dreamy karma
i hope not
timid geyser
dreamy karma
oh
those are probably all of them then
not bad
better than last league i think
last league was a bunch of reworks
and some new stuff
wild arch
Speaking of reworks
timid geyser
Still no info on all of the support gems and 1 of the skill gems.
wild arch
Looks like no love for scion still
dreamy karma
how would u know
wild arch
wild arch
Scion rework sounds like it would be a pretty big deal
dreamy karma
they havent teased any ascedancy reworks
and i doubt we get 0 ascendancy changes
rofl
wild arch
You want just guardians next?
storm crown
if you dont like it why you playing it?
violet nymph
seems realistic
timid geyser
honestly seems a little on the low end for ice golems
violet nymph
well
if you look at other parts of that image
you'll see that the player also never dies
timid geyser
Even then I feel like it should have a bit more damage. With that said should be playable
violet nymph
what damage is comfortable on a 4x ice golem build
timid geyser
I mean I'd want at least 2m shaper dps total
violet nymph
mm
granted, 9 jewels aren't present here
the 3 empty ones represent corner sockets that get expanded
timid geyser
That is 360% increased damage on a 4/1/1
violet nymph
i was told 1 might, a couple of eminence, 1 anima stone (obviously), then spam harmony
timid geyser
Yup
violet nymph
so that x9
timid geyser
That sounds a lot more resonable
violet nymph
which ends up bringing total shaper dps to about 1.7m if my calculations are correct
given ice golem dps x4
rigid lakeBOT
violet nymph
gems might be incorrect
deep wave
Bex_GGG
Community Director & Producer
Score hidden
·
13 minutes ago
Metamorph is going core, yes. We'll have more detailed information about its implementation in tomorrow's Development Manifesto.
timid geyser
Should probably use a delve crafted bow instead of staff if you can
deep wave
manifesto tomorrow O.o
violet nymph
the cheap thing to do is get a 6l staff with the simple +3 mod on it
stiff minnow
Is kinetic bolt an attack or a spell?
violet nymph
attack
storm crown
so we can equip any jewels in the jewelclusters but all area is disabled?
stiff minnow
Ah cba with that then lol
autumn snow
No chain in an ice golem builds?
violet nymph
you build around ice golem's cyclone as far as i'm aware
timid geyser
He is referring to primordial chain.
violet nymph
oh
timid geyser
Clear + with this many jewels probably more damage since it lets you run something like 6/1/1/1
violet nymph
so how does a delve crafted bow work in this context
what exactly are you looking for
just gems?
autumn snow
I guess same as skelies
rocky bridge
Do you guys think ball lightning mines will be ok still?
violet nymph
so this monstrosity basically
ball lightning mines will be amazing this league
+2 to support and 20% more attack damage alone are better than a +3 staff
so i guess i've got that going for me
autumn snow
Crafting that... gl
violet nymph
best fossil craft for the cheaper version would be serrated/corroded/metallic
i.e. easiest way to get both more attack damage while also leaving a prefix open
faceted is always too expensive
timid geyser
I mean just more attack damage and +1 gems is all you really need
autumn snow
What about frenzy charges
timid geyser
ie something like this
autumn snow
Spicy
timid geyser
I mean if you are using chain then you lose out on frenzy charges. I'm assuming though without chain I'd use frenzy spectres
violet nymph
or anything besides golems
autumn snow
Okay
timid geyser
I mean open suffix and nothing else to craft.
In theory it could have been slammed I guess.
(not my bow btw)
last axle
I would have rather slammed with some conqueror orb than to waste suffix on that 
violet nymph
spider isn't exactly a waste if you use it
last axle
well true, but its better on some other gear
autumn snow
Slam and get shit
violet nymph
the build i'm making has ultimate never-die energy
autumn snow
Or use something useful
timid geyser
Not really many useful suffixes for ice golem build
Like maybe move speed, but that's about it.
last axle
idk what they can roll
autumn snow
It's rng anyway
last axle
but i sure as heck think they could roll something more useful than a wasted suffix
timid geyser
They only roll influence mods.
autumn snow
How is spider wasted 😩
timid geyser
Look at this guys gear it is honestly the only place he could fit it from the looks of things
violet nymph
approximate dps with chain and the 9 other jewels that aren't in
timid geyser
all other suffixes are taken or crafted
violet nymph
as well as this bow
autumn snow
Important when running chain
last axle
2 weeks 2 days
autumn snow
Btw have one of your golem apply feeding
violet nymph
added +2 support
finally comfortable
definitely viable as a second build of the league
depends on how expensive the jewels are
as well as voices of course
!pob https://pastebin.com/84SBySjU i'm still not sure if my auras/curses etc are correct
rigid lakeBOT
violet nymph
given kaom's heart
pride is theoretically fine if i'm like
running around the boss
i just really really hope voices isn't too expensive
since that jewel is the only reason i wanted to write this
oh shit
you said 6/1/1/1 not 6/1/1
don't even know what my third support golem would be
timid geyser
Lightning golem
timid geyser
Yeah, no reason not to
next epoch
shower thought: all the people who thought this was going to be underwater league must have been listening to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWYIqaHZB14
violet nymph
oh dear
since i just added lightning golem
that changes the damage primordial harmony grants me 🙂
time to calculate again
timid geyser
Just throw this into one of your empty jewel slots Primordial Harmony 9X Cobalt Jewel Implicits: 0 Golem Skills have 180% increased Cooldown Recovery Speed Golems have 315% increased Cooldown Recovery Speed 180% increased Golem Damage for each Type of Golem you have Summoned Golems regenerate 18% of their Maximum Life per second Primordial
violet nymph
NOW it's a build
timid geyser
Oh you are pure phys. Drop ruthless for brutality
violet nymph
we 3m now boys
storm crown
with such high cd reduction effects should be spammed quite a bit 🤔
timid geyser
Yeah, CD shouldn't be any issue for the setup due to multistrike. Main reason for the jewel is the #% increased Golem Damage for each Type of Golem you have Summoned
violet nymph
a build that's tanky as fuck, not extremely expensive, and has actual damage
sign me up
i wanna confirm these are correct decisions
flesh offering is kinda sketchy
but it's soo much damage
i guess i could replace the culling strike in the SB setup with a corpse-creating spell
so i can use the offering during no-ad boss fights
also don't i need convocation lol
rotund pine
so i heard the new jewels can only chain 3 layer deep? kinda expecting it can just be infinitely branched lol. also can they be influenced by timeless jewels?
violet nymph
jewels go large-medium-small
you can't chain a large into a large etc
and as far as i know they can't be influenced by timeless jewels
!pob https://pastebin.com/f0xyzXeF completed build @timid geyser
rigid lakeBOT
thorn furnace
the poe official website is showing "one with nothing" giving 60% more attack speed but press pictures of it actually socketed in show it as 40%, any word on which it is?
timid geyser
60% more. It was buffed after press tour so some of the press/media stuff isn't updated.
thorn furnace
and giving you the state of dual wielding means you get the 1.6x and 1.2x?
wintry apex
It's a 10% more attack speed multiplier, but yes
timid geyser
Yeah, so in total it would be 76% more attack speed.
timid geyser
Is this build for trade league btw lucien?
wintry apex
The 20% you're thinking of is the more phys damage with attacks multiplier
violet nymph
yes, trade league @timid geyser
timid geyser
I'm going to make some adjustments to gear/gems that I would do.
violet nymph
it's intended to be pretty cheap
and also fit everything in the sockets i have given kaom's heart
timid geyser
Yeah, only expensive item I would add it inc duration boots which honestly aren't that expensive
violet nymph
yeah that'd help a lot for my weird cwdt setup
getting a 6l bow and kaom's heart are the only actual investment, as well as all the jewels
fucking 17 lol
timid geyser
Flesh offering cost so much mana 
violet nymph
hence why i put it in cwdt
but also kaom's heart keeps me from casting it normally really
while also having vuln
final dps looks very nice
timid geyser
Noticed you have shocked check? Where are you getting it from?
violet nymph
ah fuck
it was from storm brand earlier
forgot to uncheck that
hmm
considering i'm not hitting with anything
probably no reason not for me to use paragon of calamity instead of beacon
for that small amount of defense
timid geyser
yup
Alright this is about what I would do for gem setup also I change flasks a bit. Few notes with this setup. You'll want to get 2x jewels corrupted with reduced mana reserved for mana costs and you'll probably want CB immunity corruption on a jewel. https://pastebin.com/SxvQTpxQ
Oh and get minion movespeed quiver because why not
timid geyser
Understandable. Though it is by far best way to get max zoom zoom for the build
It is a little clunky to use
violet nymph
i generally play builds to be as non-clunky as possible
so i'll probably stick to only casting flame dash and vulnerability
that being said i may put war banner in an unset
native sonnet
no
warm steppe
Is there any reason not to take it?
native sonnet
3 jewel sockets at the cost of average 2.33 points ea
efficient - yes, op- no
cost might be 1 of them
depending on how rare they are
warm steppe
it's op because there seems to be extremely little downside
it ought to be incredibly rare to balance
native sonnet
and we dont know if certain noteables/keystones cna only spawn on the large jewel and not medium/small
in which case u cant branch into it
vague urchin
it costs a skill point which does nothing
native sonnet
bunch of unknowns, but as it stands, its just efficient jewel sockets
vague urchin
and 3 others to get the sockets
warm steppe
That is a valid point @native sonnet . I was mainly thinking of just abyss or normal jewels though
Since it's 5 points to get 3 sockets
compared to the usual cost of 1 per
native sonnet
7really
warm steppe
Assuming no leadup
native sonnet
dont assume that
in fact we know for a fact u need at the very minimum 3 to path there and 4 to take the whole clusters
warm steppe
Well it just makes the ratio even better
vague urchin
you could probably assume other large gems will also be rather good
warm steppe
compared to 3 per node
which is very strong, but I could see an opportunity cost yeah
Still, flat stacking jewels will provide consistent returns on that jewel
+120 max life at least with abyss
warm steppe
you get 3 jewels, -1 if you exclude the lost initial
so 120 vs 40 life then
or % life and dmg, etc etc
it'll be interesting
native sonnet
delirium metamorph shaper guardian
sour mountain
i'm curious how many people are just gonna build a ridiculous chain of delirium jewels
copper kernel
its just 3 chains max right
vague urchin
if mediums have 2 sockets its more
native sonnet
3 levels either way
poe ninja gotta have new section for certain combo of notables that is worth $$
vital idol
Only way i think you can get a bigger chain is the voices unique
other than that only 3
too bad scion can't stack jewels on her center ones and its only the outer sockets
Explodly Notable - 15ex
violet nymph
The only problem with the new jewels is that we have to waste 5 or so skill points on just the jewel tree. Then you need another 20 for the good stuff
We need more skill points imo
It's been years since we got more
vital idol
Propably cut out some longer pathing
violet nymph
Just like 5 more skill points would be great
i really hope voices isn't too expensive
sour mountain
that's kind of the point tho isn't it
violet nymph
i'm going to play a golemancer in delirium that uses 3 voices
sour mountain
yes you have to spend skill points to get into your new sockets... but if you didn't, you'd just completely skip the old tree
because you can just chain together the perfect jewels to create a big sexy tree covered in life and damage
and never need to path
violet nymph
you can only chain large-medium-small cluster jewels
sour mountain
i also wonder if it'll make Scion ridic since Scion gets so much access to jewel sockets
should i play ascendant EK something something?
so you can't chain a medium into a medium?
violet nymph
no
sour mountain
also i wonder how Voices will interact with Intuitive Leap
or how some of these really juicy minors will interact with... might of the meek, is it?
native sonnet
they dont
sour mountain
they don't work at all?
native sonnet
all the added passives wont interact with anything that says "within radius"
like thread, leap, unnatural, etc
sour mountain
oh well, you could just terminate with regular meaty jewels
violet nymph
i'm just excited to make the most tanky build i've ever made that only paths for jewels lol
and still does 4m shaper dps
rigid lakeBOT
violet nymph
6 ice golems
the corner sockets will each have a voices that will each contain 3 primordial harmony
zealous monolith
Bejeweled league
craggy pelican
as far as we know yes
tepid tiger
Has anyone done some math testing for the new unarmed jewel?
hard mist
im def playin ek with the new explosion thing
tepid tiger
Because I came out to about 9000 damage a basic attack with decent boots and chests with rig's curse and pugilist on slayer. No flasks no skills
Where a pretty high tier maybe 5-10 ex weapon investment with axes will get you to like 6.4k
I really want to try setting up some sick stat stacking builds with that new jewel prolly go cyclone
craggy pelican
can i get that pob? i wanna look at some skills
violet nymph
@violet nymph did you socket brutality into ice golems
tepid tiger
I already closed it out
I'd recomend just taking some tree's that already do dex stacking like iron commander etc.
Removing bow nodes and such and slap dual wield nodes in instead as well as claw
Grab a rigwald's curse and puglist and slap in to see how it looks
I just saw the 9k base damage at 580 dex not 1000 like actual stacking and deemed it broken enough to play
random stream
Even going non crit it should be pretty ridiculous
eager terrace
hm didn't that Perfidy tooltip flavor text mention loki by name earlier today
now it just says "the trickster god"
violet nymph
yes @violet nymph
the only cold skill ice golems have is the weird shard projectile thing
and it's not worth speccing
as it's a spell
the "snowman roll" is what you look at for dps
gaunt latch
any info on the animate weapon from blade spell mechanic?
native sonnet
hungry loop
barren crescent
you could use hungry loop
tbh it would be fun to troll poe.ninja with that if its playable
wild arch
Why have that when you can have thief's torment
wild arch
Memes aside, I'm trying to figure out the most optimal ascendancy for palm
First one to come to mind was gladiator
sour mountain
resonator crafting with delirium jewels seems like it might be nice for tradeybois
1socket resonators with the life fossil a+++
bitter ledge
I really wonder how certain mechanics will become more 'rewarding'and more 'difficult'
For instance, what happens to the rewards of the Syndicate? Will they just have a higher chance to spawn more members, thus increasing risk and reward at the same time?
What about essences? Higher chance for monsters to be affected by more or higher tier essences?
wild arch
More rewarding means you'll see Reddit screenshots with 10 exalt drops on screen while you get nothing
bitter ledge
Nemesis? Each monster has 2 nemesis mods which can't be stolen by a HH?
wild arch
When has increased difficulty ever been anything other than buffed stats in PoE?
bitter ledge
Yeah. I pretty much used up all of my RNG this league. I got a mirror as a random drop, and 2 fiends from Stacked Decks, along with a ton of raw exalt drops...
Hmmm... didn't Synthesis have something like that for increased difficulty?
bitter ledge
What about Legion? The most rewarding ones were just rare mobs or the chests.
So I think it will be something like this if they go for the buffed stats
wild arch
Just like every single league before this, it's literally gonna be just: go deeper for bigger numbers
bitter ledge
1-100 ingame units out: Monsters have 10% more health.
100-200 ingame units out: Monsters have onslaught, monsters have 20% more health.
200-300 ingame units out: Monsters have onslaught, 20% increased effect of onslaught onmonsters, monsters have 40% more health.
Ect.
Here is my predict for the meta then. People are going to run maps with straight lines for the maximum reward (E.g. Strand, Arcade, Waterways???)
wild arch
Pretty much
bitter ledge
Or maybe Glacier farming 2.0 will be a thing, because of the instanced areas.
bitter ledge
Yeah, I wonder how that canceling works.
Do you have to just walk back? If so, RIP walking back to pick up a chaos orb. Or do you have to enter the delirium mirror again?
wild arch
From what I understand you cancel it by walking back in the mirror's direction for a bit
bitter ledge
Well... I can already hear the complaints from people...
sharp wind
looked like a timer tbh
bitter ledge
Somebody is playing CoD portal. An exalt dropped, he decides to push further into the mist. Get oneshot 6 times by "enemies deal 100% extra damage as fire damage, enemies fire 10 extra projectiles, -50% to player maximum resistances, players are cursed with elemental weakeness".
sharp wind
Ziggy's video when he stopped killing a time of 4 seconds appeared
bitter ledge
But I'm really hoping for some risk/reward that's built into the mechanics themselves
For instance, the Beyond modifier is a perfect example. You kill enemies, which makes the more dangerous beyond monsters spawn. Because you need to fight more, you are both at risk and being rewarded.
sharp wind
What I'm worried about is if you need to go fast, we going to have to backtrack to pick up loot when map is done
bitter ledge
In practice, though, people just use HH with triple beyond to get a ton of Nemesis mobs to spawn.
Yeah, same here
Maybe a map with 2 'lanes' on it? Like racecourse or arcade?
When the new atlas is revealed, I will make a list on which maps to complete, just so you get a good map regardless of map tier.
Unless we can get the carthographers seals back.
sharp wind
I'd rather they store it and drop it on us at the end like delve
sharp wind
but if you fail the map there's a problem
bitter ledge
But in the video, you can see that a jewel thingy dropped.
But I'm also worried about maps like Ramparts.
sharp wind
How would legion work with it tho? You sit for a while waiting for the timer.
bitter ledge
Plus, you need to backtrack to kill the 'backlines'
And how will the temple work?
How will Essences work?
Or breaches? Abysses?
What happens with Sulphite? Do you get increased sulphite quantity if you venture out further?
sharp wind
sadly, we going to have to wait to find out
bitter ledge
Yeah
I can already see a ton of issues with this league in theory.
And I feel like this will be a nightmare for the programmers at GGG
This league will either be amazing or awful.
sharp wind
They said they were ahead of schedule, so maybe they did some testing.
bitter ledge
If it's anything like Synthesis, almost everybody will hate it, and I will really enjoy it.
bitter ledge
Synthesis before 3.6.3 was alright. Synthesis after 3.6.3 was AMAZING
unborn depot
I mean if its a simple thing like different mechanics not overlapping, so delirium only affects the persistent monsters and not legion/blight /etc
bitter ledge
No, they clearly showcase other league mechanics being affected
So... how does a nemesis beast (if that's possible) trapped in an essence possessed by a tormented spirit in the delirium work? My guess is that it will either vomit exalts or drop an additional muttering essence.
unborn depot
Yeah sure, I was referring specifically to the triggered events like blight and legion, I don't see any good way of integrating them into another timed event
unborn depot
The monsters that are already active when the map is opened should be the ones altered by it I guess
silver kettle
The league mechanic was basically done a week or so ago so is going through a decent amount of refinement. My understanding (based on overhearing stuff, don't take as gospel) is that it was specifically designed to be easy to implement
unborn depot
I am just comparing it to breach
barren crescent
wat
faint basalt
the timmer on ziggy video appear when he goes through the mirror
was watching it atm
bitter ledge
I do feel like there will be a ton of 'edge cases', though. However, it feels like GGG is basically done with the implementation and is just testing the mechanics?
native sonnet
Some videos showed the reward charging/stacks on the Mp globe, some doesn’t
Not sure why
Might just be older videos from when they finished the mist mechanic and before the rewards part? =/
bitter ledge
Certain things will be changed after they make these videos.
faint basalt
the reward above mana is only from the new map incubator
bitter ledge
This was the case with Betrayal and with Metamorph
faint basalt
if the map doesn't have incubator, theres no loot counter
also, read this for a bit more info:
sharp wind
Screw this. Just make it Friday the 13th
faint basalt
@faint basalt the normal delirium encounters are triggered by you walking through the mirror in a zone, and they last for a limited time. However, you can use the delirium orbs on a map to turn the entire map into a special delirium encounter with no time limit on it
@silver kettle this
eternal turtle
Is there any work on ascendency reworks or balance?
bitter ledge
Oh damn.
native sonnet
Undisclosed yet
eternal turtle
Thought so
sharp wind
Seems they spent a lot of time updating old mechanics
faint basalt
i've read that today they will give a bit more info on developer manifest
bitter ledge
@faint basalt You're not allowed to ping GGG employees, right?
sharp wind
Viper might be ok
faint basalt
its a quote, can't do more
silver kettle
It's fine
@sharp wind it was partly a case of "shit, there's a new guy who needs work, what can he do. Oh, he can make Vaal side areas not suck in maps!"
That said, I imagine it would have been done anyway and a few other people besides me got involved
sharp wind
Just add some code to give me all the vanity cards. I farmed them this league and never quite got a stack. 🤪
Conqueror spawning will be deterministic, aka not purely rng based.
I'm happy for this tho
violet nymph
cant wait not be to allowed to participate in league mechanics cause 270 out of 280 nodes are trash and the remaining 10 are for nolifers only
violet nymph
doesnt matter when it is only dropped in league
faint basalt
no, casue the skill tree will be on standard too and will stay forever if im not wrong
violet nymph
in the reddit thread one of the ggg guys said the jewels for it only drop in delirium
bitter ledge
How will a map like Ramparts work with the mist, then? Because if you're on the upper part, wouldn't the game think that you're 'retreating'?
sharp wind
You are just 'Advancing in a different direction"
faint basalt
in the reddit thread one of the ggg guys said the jewels for it only drop in delirium
@violet nymph thats a good point on you, then i shut my mouth
How will a map like Ramparts work with the mist, then? Because if you're on the upper part, wouldn't the game think that you're 'retreating'?
@bitter ledge can you explain me this? what does it haver to do the retreating?
bitter ledge
If you 'retreat' in the direction of the mirror, the mist will dissappear
sharp wind
from Ziggy's vid?
bitter ledge
silver kettle
@violet nymph we really do want people to actually use the jewels. And everyone, not just the most dedicated players. If you don't feel able/incentivised to do so after release feel free to grumble at me
faint basalt
viper, can you explain something about the timer? how does it work or smth?
sour mountain
so in this league
is your character just like, insane
silver kettle
@faint basalt I don't have up to date enough information, sorry
sour mountain
also; all this stuff just does not work with timeless or leaping jewels, does ie
it
violet nymph
@silver kettle i mean ggg said that every single league, and every single league only the biggest nolifers allowed to have fun with the league mechanics
silver kettle
Doesn't interact with any jewels that have a radius @sour mountain
violet nymph
foxbunny actually shut up lol
like double corrupt altar, most players could never see the joy of double corrupting cause they couldnt afford to lose their gear
silver kettle
It's fine lol. I'm serious though. If they feel bad, complain to me
sour mountain
...but double corrupt altar is not the mechanic of incursion
silver kettle
These are not meant to be the super endgame rewards you find one or two of a league
sour mountain
incursion's mechanic is "go into the past, kill vaal, after 11 you get a temple to clear"
faint basalt
how did you updatet the alva temple? same mechanic but better reward?
silver kettle
At least not the regular ones
sour mountain
delirium's league mechanic is "enter the mirror dimension and murder everything for loot"
sour mountain
i like that it's quite straightforward but it has this huge, weird depth in the new jewels
it's the opposite of synthesis
violet nymph
i just really really hope voices isn't some 10ex jewel
sour mountain
i think voices will cost as much as um
cunning blaze
so are they going to nerf necro or what? I can't bear to play anything else with such cost efficent dps-surival
sour mountain
intuitive
violet nymph
@sour mountain ok, what about the people that dont care about meta speedbuilds, tell them how much fun incursion where, especially during leveling
sour mountain
game about killing monsters
playing a build that can't kill monsters
4head
violet nymph
truly "ssfbtw" iq post
sharp wind
then don't play this league
sour mountain
if you couldn't destroy corpses you couldn't really play delve
what would you say to them???
violet nymph
same thing to all others: stop spending money if ggg cant be assed to fix their league
sour mountain
fix
it's working as intended tho
barren crescent
I like those QoL changes, wish that we'd know more about "improved temple of atzoatl" more than just that
sharp wind
Bunny seems to be one of those speed clear is bad fan bois
sour mountain
wilson has explicitly said "well the game has boiled down to going fast and killing lots, if you don't like that, this probably isn't the game for you"
violet nymph
not at all
@sour mountain wilson contradicts himself every other thing he says
jesus christ
why are you here
sour mountain
yeah lol
sharp wind
to be annoying I guess
violet nymph
@violet nymph you can enjoy a game without shilling, something you havent learned yet
sour mountain
besides... slow and steady progress will probably actually be good as you'll be able to survive deep stages of delirium
sharp wind
He profaned the GOD. Chris
violet nymph
you clearly don't enjoy it
sour mountain
idk man
barren crescent
Transport, you'd be greatly mistaken if I didn't suicide rush to other edge of the map
sour mountain
but i think "well Casual Player X couldn't do a double corrupt in Incursion!" and then jumping down to "but incursion league was poopy for players who dont wanna go fast"
sharp wind
never not Sudoku.
sour mountain
like idk. the two points are so disconnected that i don't know????
violet nymph
@sour mountain you didnt want to accept the first argument
they have nothing to do with each other
sour mountain
yeah cos it was a shit argument
violet nymph
be a good boi and buy some more overpriced mtx will ya
when you have ssf in your name
you are already not worht anyones time
sharp wind
dude don't be a dick
barren crescent
could you 2 knock it off
sour mountain
yeah there's a chat mod... right here
barren crescent
argumentation against each other is fine, but that is getting personal
languid path
oh hey it's the same guy that thinks other people can't have fun crafting 'cause he himself is too poor to craft 
sour mountain
like what's the core thrust of your thesis
that people who play the game more and at a higher skill level enjoy the league's deeper mechanics more?
languid path
you see
violet nymph
that's quite an accusation
languid path
I actually use your argument against you
violet nymph
have any proof
sharp wind
The best argument I ever saw was "Too much dps is bad" and Too high mob density is bad"
violet nymph
@violet nymph ask any of the top players if they like wasting 200ex on nothing, i doubt they say "nah thats totally fun"
if you dont care about 200ex you are rmter
period
languid path
barren crescent
that people who play the game more and at a higher skill level enjoy the league's deeper mechanics more?
Not wrong tbh
sour mountain
idc about 200ex
languid path
it's ok
sour mountain
im ssf that thing is just for multimod craft 😏
violet nymph
@violet nymph thats literally what he said yesterday
languid path
I don't mind poor people not understanding the joy of burning 200ex crafting an item
violet nymph
smoothbrain
barren crescent
Time and place are important
languid path
it's ok
violet nymph
@languid path its fine you can say you rmt, ggg wont ban you anyway
literally calling someone smoothbrain in 2020
lmao
sour mountain
don't really understand why fox hasn't been muted but maybe it's just me
barren crescent
@violet nymph I highly recommend chilling out
languid path
imagine needing rmt to get 200ex tho
violet nymph
@barren crescent piss off, dude call everyone lowlife for not having 200 ex to burn on vendor trash since days, i dont care about hurting the feelings of a rmt scum
violet nymph
"piss off" to the mod lol
sour mountain
...it just sounds like sarcasm
languid path
you're the one gatekeeping everyone because they enjoy crafting
sharp wind
Will this be Kroohpy's first ban? Find out next time on DBZ
sour mountain
i don't care about your opinion ydroxoos
but i care about you
how's your day been ❤️
languid path
👍
faint basalt
@violet nymph dude, cut it off, if you don't know how to play, just dont play but dont blame other people cause you can't do X or Y
sour mountain
i'm trying to figure out whether Voices will be popular just on the back of being 3 superefficient sockets
faint basalt
a friend of mine has done +1000ex this league just playing and crafting, started with 5 ex from flat loot
sour mountain
for like Primordials, coated shrapnel, that sorta stuff
violet nymph
i've already written a golemancer tree using voices
sharp wind
@faint basalt he's muted
faint basalt
oh
sharp wind
I'm going fireball mines
sour mountain
but i think just giving yourself plenty of Life wheels will be superpopular
invest in delving
violet nymph
if voices is used, this is a level 94 tree with 17 sockets, 184% max life, AND soul of steel 😉
17 not including the ones used for voices
eternal turtle
This league I went super hard and finally got my first HH.. I doubt I’ll do it again .. how do people make so much money so easy?
sour mountain
high end stuff with Legion jewels and chained Delirium jewels are gonna be neato
sharp wind
don't you need to spend passive points to get passives on the new jewels?
violet nymph
yes
sour mountain
looking forward to seeing people who skip having any normal nodes
and yeah you do - but Voices is still superefficient jewel sockets
violet nymph
sour mountain
5 passives for 3 sockets
barren crescent
On that topic of berating ppl's crafting investment scale, don't do that. 10ex is big moneys for someone
sour mountain
nah it's 5
sharp wind
Voices is the corrupted socket anywhere jewel?
sour mountain
i do
you probably wouldn't go there otherwise i don't think
like where are you putting your Voices?
bitter ledge
This might be really pog for RF
violet nymph
the point is that i have the jewel sockets allocated
so once i put the 3 voices in
i have 12 passives to allocate to make use of them
sour mountain
the easiest spot to me seems to be just left of... the one that gives you +1 max LR
but by pathing into that outer node you're also spending 2 passives on ele damage which is not great
bitter ledge
Yeah, that's what I'm worried about with those jewels
violet nymph
it's still way more efficient than going to any other jewel socket
sour mountain
it does skew it a bit though
violet nymph
at least in the case of my tree
bitter ledge
You need to have 2 (or sometimes even 3 or 4) nodes just to get to those jewels
sour mountain
it might make builds which like those things better?
but the passive values are so low it's kinda ehhh
violet nymph
if i'm hearing "this won't be very valuable" it makes me happy
sour mountain
it will be niche, i think
violet nymph
cause hoooo boy
sharp wind
It's really going to depend what you can get
sour mountain
your build will work without the Voices, though
violet nymph
not nearly as well
sharp wind
Lucien, are you going for the extra sockets ?
sour mountain
buuut... what about a build that just takes four great mods in each jewel
bitter ledge
Also, how will timeless jewels interact with these new nodes?
violet nymph
circled are places where voices will be used
sour mountain
they will not, Timmy
violet nymph
they don't @bitter ledge
sharp wind
so voices will be like 6 extra golem gems
sour mountain
if you have 2 voices, yeah
violet nymph
9 extra for my tree
or yeah i guess 6 extra
if you want to be semantic
which i hate
sharp wind
only problem is it's golems. Tried it but found it about as fun as necro.
violet nymph
!pob https://pastebin.com/qZNmyUgC here, have a pob
rigid lakeBOT
sour mountain
the only fun golem build i've found is carrion
also Voices will help with a skellington build
violet nymph
i don't know why it says shock effect
i don't have shock ticked in pob
anyway, the build won't die ever basically
sharp wind
you running skitterbots?
violet nymph
no
sour mountain
From Dust and To Dust in your Voices, get a Minions jewel
violet nymph
i'm using kaom's heart so i don't have room for skitters
sour mountain
but the same problem... where to put it
also there are a fair few thresholds for Spectres so you can do things with that, maybe?
...nevermind there's only one lol.
violet nymph
like i am just not gonna die lol
sour mountain
totem unique jewels? 🤔
sharp wind
1k life regen? Dems noob numbers 🤪
sour mountain
is that your Clayshaper stone golem or a regular stone golem
violet nymph
i don't use clayshaper
sour mountain
you terrorist
sharp wind
crazy
sour mountain
your mind must be defective
sour mountain
(i don't actually know if it's better or worse)
sharp wind
well if you going koams you have to do this
violet nymph
i don't really need anything else
i've got like 4.5k shaper dps theoretically
if i get that bow
and all the jewels
sour mountain
....4.5k?
sour mountain
lol
violet nymph
it's 4:30am
sour mountain
i thought you were talking about like... the damage you actually do, minus your golems?
for some reason
sharp wind
he quinnified his build there for a second
sour mountain
so what, 720k shaper dps? s o f t
violet nymph
with 6 ice golems
violet nymph
lol
sour mountain
so what... 4.5mil dps
violet nymph
this all comes down to how expensive voices is really
violet nymph
it's not gonna be my first build of the league lol
sour mountain
and double clayshaper
violet nymph
i generally don't start builds until i have all the important items
sour mountain
so you're not starting this build until you have... 19? unique jewels
violet nymph
17
sour mountain
and the two Visions?
violet nymph
realize i'm not ssf lol
sour mountain
nah i know
small timber
Holy shit
violet nymph
when i want to play the build i'll just buy the items
small timber
It's hype
sour mountain
are you also thinking about good Large Cluster jewels?
sharp wind
exalts can buy you a lot of things
violet nymph
i'm not considering anything related to the cluster jewels other than voices
sour mountain
at that point your tree might end up more efficient if you do that
small timber
I wanna play bladeblast
sour mountain
like you can build wheels with life or minion effect or whatever you need
large which leads into Voices, and you might at that point be thinking about small minion or golem wheels
sharp wind
I think life wheels will be good for those builds that battle to pick it up
violet nymph
voices is large
violet nymph
can't link large to large
sour mountain
i thought somebody'd said it's medium
violet nymph
they're wrong
sour mountain
ah, bummer
JUNK JEWEL 0/10 DONT PLAY
(though, you can just carry through the jewel and terminate with Primordials at the end of the Mediums)
violet nymph
so stupid question but has GGG mentioned anything about what kinda skill changes there will be this league? like how legion was supposed to be melee league and last league was "supposed" to 😒 be bow league
sour mountain
i dont think they've said anything? they've just revealed blade blast really
violet nymph
whats it gonna be this time
anyway my build is fine, i don't really intend on changing it
ahh okay
sour mountain
it's 'supposed to be' a wand league
violet nymph
4.5m dps is plenty comfortable
sour mountain
yeah this is stuff you can't really plan around lucien
violet nymph
it's not supposed to be anything lol
if you watch the ziggyd video it's clear ggg wants to steer away from archetypes
sour mountain
if you see a medium jewel with like... +life, +minionx, a decent notable and another jewel socket, then you can start thinking about it i suppose
violet nymph
golemancers only want jewels
sour mountain
is primordial harmony also have minion speeds?
violet nymph
use 2 primordial eminence for 40% attack speed
bitter ledge
IDK if I should go SSF or trade league for Delirium.
violet nymph
not golems
sour mountain
right, yeah, golems
violet nymph
golems have mixed spell and attacks
violet nymph
you usually spec into either the attack or spell of a given golem
sour mountain
zappybois have casts
violet nymph
in this case, i'm speccing into ice golem's attacks
his little icicle barrage is a spell though
and since i'm using brutality it will do 0 damage
sour mountain
if you link a golem to cast on crit, will the golem's crits activate its icicle barrage? galaxy brain emoji
violet nymph
fun fact, ice golems are purephys besides that one little useless barrage
violet nymph
they only use the barrage when they're on top of enemies anyway
there shouldn't really be an issue
sour mountain
i'd probably just use chaos golems if i was doing golemancer
violet nymph
i've never heard of anyone trying that, but i'd like to see it