Noncrit Doryani's Touch?
#1┃mirage-league
wild arch
But you'd need a good chunk of attack speed to make it useable
autumn locust
@dusty umbra thats generally with cyclone though which has almost 3x base aps of chain hook
violet nymph
stormfire doryani's touch
dusty umbra
@autumn locust i know
wild arch
So they said that shocking and chilling enemies will be a bit easier
Could fire and lighting ele hit potentially beat pure fire? 
cobalt falcon
Any info map drop still have tier? (Example burial will have no tier, tier 2 or can vary from tier 1-16?)
vast gazelle
i just want scorch/sap/brittle to be viable
slender temple
@cobalt falcon in the Q&A they said that the map tab will be changing and that maps can be any tier now so i imagine burial chamber might still be one of the default white maps but you can upgrade it with watchstones later
as you progress in teh story
sharp wind
Can't wait to see how people abuse that added lightening shield. I wonder how rare it's going to be.
barren crescent
I think ppl will get like 1-2k max added from it
Smaller pool with tons of recovery to stack it up
Or big pool with majority reserved
Like mana guardian ish
midnight phoenix
Its generic damage
Which pretty much always means that the ppl abusing it the hardest will be herald bombers
barren crescent
oh... right...
dusty umbra
@sharp wind the real question is - whether we can use ES or it also gets sac'ed
final umbra
Herald bombing 😎
dusty umbra
@final umbra and brutal restraint since it adds only max dmg
sharp wind
bomber in boss killing league tho.
copper kernel
Youre saying that like the league mechanic will be worth doing the first 2 weeks
gray zealot
youre saying that like it isnt
if the parts you use in metamorph matter for loot theres bound to be a way to focus farm it
midnight phoenix
Well its a reasonable concern that it will be miserably buggy and not worth doing from a rage perspective
copper kernel
knowing previous releases, chances are the league mechanic wont be worth doing
and the nice part about this league is that they have ONE week to fix all the issues
else it gets delayed until after new years
sharp wind
RIP if melee skills cause CTD again.
barren crescent
ctd?
slender temple
crash to desktop maybe unlesss some new poe lingo
sharp wind
crash to desktop
low kindle
I hope they add guaranteed shock and chill notables to the skill tree
At least that's what I undertook they're going to do
patent canyon
all i heard was making it actually possible to inflict reasonable shock on non elementalist
so all i expect is lowered threshold for % dmg
barren crescent
or just give it a stun treatment / stat to lower shock thresholds in current ailment nodes
I think a build should be able to get reliable shocking with full investment
IE: running pure lightning dmg and significant portion of chosen dmg clusters are ailment/shock themed
low kindle
increased effect of shock or chill does lower the threshold kind of
because you become able to shock with damage that normally wouldnt shock
wild arch
I always thought that shock was supposed to be a ramp up thing
As in you roll a high damage number > shock them for a small damage bonus > deal more damage > shock for a bigger bonus
patent canyon
there is no boss fight that lasts that long for you to ramp it up
and if you can shock that boss you can delete him
wild arch
Sounds like a pointless ailment then
patent canyon
well it was busted af when every single build had max shock with vaal lightning trap
right now its just elementalist thing
wild arch
Just more damage with extra steps 
void vigil
the shield is pretty bad though
i'd honestly rather use an esh mirror
@patent canyon shock on non elementalist is pretty doable atm
just gotta have some chunky hits
for example, this build shocks pretty hard http://poe-profile.info/profile/rootytooty
30% more damage from yoke ailments pog
vast gazelle
ele hit can shock pretty hard, amusingly enough
timid geyser
The main appeal for mana storm imo is that you gain damage via stacking a defense (mana with MoM). Similar to stuff like HoWA. Also Esh's isn't giving much damage vs boss fights.
vast gazelle
eeeh
ive played a ton of mom and dumping all your mana repeatedly sounds like a recipe for dying, unless you're talking specifically mom EB
which is another animal entirely
timid geyser
The specific use case I'm think/planning around is attack/trigger based where you only sacrifice your mana once ever 4 seconds and you have a buffer with EB MoM.
And a healthy amount of mana recovery
void vigil
not super convinced
dusty umbra
elehit lighting mines
timid geyser
Trust me, I don't think mana storm is going to be meta OP unique, but when you are potentially adding ~1K (w/ 8k mana) lightning damage to hits that's a lot of damage to throw around.
dusty umbra
yeah and i bet it's going to be paired with brutal restraint
void vigil
yeah but it requires so much investment
wintry sigil
Totems? xD
void vigil
i dont know if it's worth
because you also cant use auras
you also cant use attacks
timid geyser
Why can't you use attacks?
dusty umbra
with attacks you can get them to 0ish cost tho
void vigil
read the item yo
timid geyser
You just need to cast any spell to sacrifice the mana and gain the buff.
void vigil
why would I use this over a rare shield or lyco
for attacks
esp since most mana nodes are top tree
and most attack nodes are lower
the playstyle will also be ass
since you'll need to keep casting a spell every couple seconds
to recharge your damage, so you can attack
timid geyser
Instant cast spells helps that problem. Still having to press another button ever 4 seconds is annoying yeah.
And there are plenty of ways to scale the damage for attack based builds on top side of the tree. To name a few potential options Crown of eyes, wanders, transfiguration of mind.
And you can still do trigger builds like Cast on Crit if you don't want to scale attack damage.
gritty wedge
is there a good explanation of how colors/socket count will work in 2.0 somewhere with regard to corruption?
silver kettle
We don't know how it will work yet. It's pretty likely that GGG haven't worked out the details
AFAIK the only corruption-related topic discussed for the new socket system is that gear corruption outcomes might have to be tweaked because the cost of bricking is so much lower when your armour isn't 6L
vast gazelle
i wonder what they'll work out
i hope its not super unlikely gambling where you probably brick armor but a tiny chance of a good outcome
formal crypt
What happens if you corrupt a ring with 20q of a particular type? Do you think the outcomes would be influenced by the quality?
In terms of implicit corrupt, or if it bricks 1. Will the new mods be influenced by quality 2. Will the resulting mods be affected by the quality
spice cipher
We don’t know that information
tender elbow
Anyone know if the the metamorph can turn into kitava/shaper/elder?\
tired knot
we have seen a shaper metamorph
elder kitava probably maybe
(dk how would a kitava one be cus its like 1 sided boss)
dusty umbra
we have also seen hydra morph
barren crescent
GMP +skill chain shaper inc
formal crypt
Have they said anything about whether or not you can use catalysts to quality up unique jewelry?
wild arch
Don't really see why it wouldn't work
formal crypt
Would those do you think only affect "ordinary" mods like life, mana, resistances, or also the special mods unique items can have?
wild arch
Obviously not the unique mods
wild arch
That shouldn't be affected
vapid agate
what prices do you think catalysts will sit at
dusty umbra
depends on rarity really
vapid agate
ye
wild arch
Aren't the catalysts metamorph drops?
formal crypt
Yes
wild arch
Probably not gonna work
final umbra
Would it be like just a vector based proc of one his abilities, with none of the setup of the field?
Like just an eyebeam
final umbra
Or maybe an indicator that the kitava part of the morph has taken over like a big flaring x underneath him
Before he releases the ball or starts a slam
timid geyser
I mean for all we know kitava might not even be a boss fight technicly
wild arch
I just can't see him working since he's stationary
timid geyser
Consider his back side doesn't even have textures if I remember right so who knows.
Probably won't be a thing for metamorph
barren crescent
cursed king is rigwalds right?
I think the scary ones are the bosses that normally can't have map mods
turbo eradicator 👀
patent canyon
depends how much of delay there is after they morph
like if it goes into rigwald and straight into wolf barrage with no animation
barren crescent
ah ye, just instakill em
patent canyon
yeah thats solution to every problem
spice cipher
I hope there isn’t much delay
fallow pine
Maybe the dudes won't get map mods either
Like they have a special zone you fight them in that's modless
median wharf
has the EA gem been shown yet?
slender temple
All three versions of atziri with Uber elder and shaper go
lucid stone
I really like this precedent for support gems interactiing with each other.
cobalt falcon
I like the idea, but then opening spot for gem to do the combination as 1 gem..
As poe2 lot of socket, i hope its not happen
lucid stone
How does nova support work with furry valve
silver kettle
my guess (and it's only a guess) would be that you shoot the arrow up, it lands, shoots one arrow forward, and if that hits you get however many arrows splitting off at nearby targets
limpid wigeon
god i am not looking forward to the 2.0 socket changes at all
the transformations as shown in the preview also concern me
wintry sigil
titty monster transformation for bow :^)
wild arch
Wow, actual barrage is still a thing
violet nymph
surprised me too
and they're buffing it lol
would be nice if they made it look different than 100x default attack
wild arch
I mean
Since bows are getting the stupid power creep treatment this league
Barrage needs a buff to keep up with everything else
Greater volley was the last thing I expected tho
violet nymph
how greater volley interacts with barrage is pretty cool
too bad barrage is only a bow skill lol
violet nymph
but i'd imagine greater volley has some nutty applications
for instance
they said they're giving greater volley a better damage multi than gmp
sooooo
fireball
wall shotgunning
definitely gonna work for singletarget
wild arch
For the dot build maybe
violet nymph
i kinda want to make a CA arrow nova build
and scale area a fuckton
see how far i can push it
wild arch
Their 50% is more than enough
wild arch
Tailwind won't help much with the dot
violet nymph
it just occurred to me that there aren't many ascendancies that haven't been reworked heavily fairly recently
just like
deadeye, scion, and jugg
and that's basically it lol
some have been changed a bit but not too much
like raider
with the bow changes i think some deadeye changes might be in order
wild arch
Most likely
I feel like
Impale wand champion
But unless they announce some new base types or something, until you craft a rare, obliteration is the only option
wild arch
It's a shame arrow nova can't work on wands
valid isle
F
wild arch
Why are wands getting shafted again 
valid isle
They are made of wood
frank hound
for CA``` yyyeah maybe not thoughif it doesn't cause a cloud at the initial impact too
you'll aim at a pack and it'll cloud everything but the pack
limpid wigeon
it dooes
if you shoot it into a pack the arrows that come off it will instantly hit an enemy
there is no way you could not create a pool
barren crescent
I think we'll see dual CA setups, one with nova and one with bossing dps
violet nymph
well we dont know if they dont change the ranger ascendancy yet
formal crypt
I still haven't decided between trickster and Pathfinder CA
Pathfinder seems better for toxic rain
low kindle
I only want to know if rain skills can be supported by barrage
Also, best tr/CA ascendancy is occultist
formal crypt
How so
barren crescent
I'm also curious why Occu over Trickster
patent canyon
i would understand that like half a year ago
but occ is rather.... doo doo right now
mortal yarrow
@patent canyon maybe he got insider knowledge on upcoming changes 
patent canyon
ohh yes, please introduce 2nd actual ascendency for witch
its sad to have only 1 and deformed one
mortal yarrow
Yeah
wild arch
Occultist has chaos multiplier and -20% chaos resist
Which is kinda hard to beat
Not to mention increased curse effect on despair for even more -resist
shy pivot
occ is fine 🤔
doesnt have anything to be shamed about tbh, cursing hexproof is very handy. The chaos res, es bonuses and profane bloom explosions are pretty good as well.
patent canyon
occ was perfectly fine with es behind the bastion, right now everything that occ does, trickster does it better
the only niche that it fits is the cold DoT build
violet nymph
chaos pops are nice
i did an ssf start with a chaos dot spell character and it took way longer to get to act 2 than i would've liked
sooo that might not be what i start with lol
wet plaza
when did you craft your wands
violet nymph
i think aside from everything else the problem was that i forgot to pick up flame dash 
i don't do race-type stuff at all
usually i want to have skill-point quests done as they're available
shy pivot
ideally u want to skip some of them and backtrack later unless you dont mind taking 2-3min to kill a boss that'd take u 10sec at higher lvl
formal crypt
I feel like they will revisit occultist some time
ES was godly, then nerfed, then godly, then nerfed
The cycle will continue
I certainly hope they try and rebalance the ascendancies before we get an additional 19
Because for a while people will be busy playing the new ones even if they aren't so good, just because they're new
And from what we've seen they have more mechanical uniqueness than our current ascendancies
violet nymph
They said they're reworking all the old ascendancies to make use of the skill system when 4.0 happens
So it'll basically be 38 new ascendancies
formal crypt
Yeah the new ones seem to use much less in the way of "more numbers"
Occultist might just get "discipline reserves no mana" as a node
slender temple
i want something like word of reflection but as a skill that we can scale
barren crescent
I just see tricksters build in sustain more valuable than raw dmg of occu
low kindle
occultist because profane bloom
you go withering presence, malediction and become a life based occultist with devouring diadem and divine flesh
craft a despair on hit bow for profane bloom proliferation
I haven't tested sporeguard yet, but it looks pretty juicy
reservations are malevolence, enfeeble and spider
oh and you can also grab acro if you want because you're not ES based
shy pivot
add divine flesh and u tanky af indeed
mmm didnt know despair on hit was a thing
incandescent heart for even more mitigation ?
or lightning coil ?
vast gazelle
all 3 asc are good for witch what
violet nymph
so i didn't get how the greater volley and barrage worked. does it fire in the line or in the burst when used together?
violet nymph
ah k
wild arch
This combo covers a wide area while still letting you hit bigger targets multiple times
shy pivot
im thinking kinetic barrage
eternal laurel
Ice shot arrow nova, does that work together?
patent canyon
yes
midnight phoenix
No reason why not
patent canyon
only scourge and rain skills cant be supported by that
eternal laurel
noted thanks
im thinking some kind of cold stacking shenanigans with the cold penetration plus
violet nymph
i'll be honest. ice shot isn't really a arrow nova skill imo
eternal laurel
why?
violet nymph
you'd be better off being able to hit targets reliably from front of you.
hell i can't think of many skills in which they actually benifit from arrow nova outside of the ones they mentioned that are the ground targeting
patent canyon
it also makes skills slower
violet nymph
^
patent canyon
instead of instant hit you wait for payload
eternal laurel
hmm ok good points thanks
timid geyser
I mean I could see some possible overlaps happening with ice shot via arrow nova while shooting in a pack, but with that said I agree with the others.
violet nymph
also barrage galvanic arrow seems to be something good since it refires the aoe bit every shot
also that AoE cone it has is increased in size based on proj speed. so could be pretty spicy
small mirage
damn you can use catalysts on uniques
silver kettle
I can't imagine it will be a very common thing
sounds like using 20 catalysts will be expensive
I'm assuming people will mostly use them on whites for crafting
timid geyser
Do we know how much of an impact it will be for crafting? ie how much more likely it makes rolling mods.
silver kettle
no, but from Chris's wording at exilecon it sounds like a big one. certainly not just 20% more likely
dusty umbra
20% more to get mod + fossil crafting isn't that already pretty huge?
silver kettle
paraphrasing, but I think he said something like being almost guaranteed to hit a resistance mod at 20% resistance quality
dusty umbra
life fossil + 20% increase in chance
silver kettle
which implies similar weighting to fossils
I do wonder what happens when you stack them
fun things, most likely
barren crescent
Conversion rings with elemental catalysts 👀
dusty umbra
eshroud less accesible tho
wild arch
I read over the nova + barrage combo again
Would a direct shot hit the centre enemy with all arrows?
silver kettle
we haven't seen a catalyst that could boost conversion mods yet
I doubt there will be one
@wild arch certainly sounds that way yes
dusty umbra
@silver kettle i just hope i can get 4% extra life converted into ES from chayula lol
silver kettle
which gives the combo an actual use case, though doesn't sound easy to pull off against most bosses
wild arch
I'm a bit concerned that they didn't mention nova + volley
Because sire of shards and volley is broken
barren crescent
@silver kettle but wouldn't elemental boosting work for the conversion?
elem dmg
silver kettle
conversion isn't a damage modifier
silver kettle
surely not
actually, I guess it's not totally unreasonable?
depends on how it's all coded, and then whether they specifically block or allow it
opaque forge
kind of wish there was an arrow rain counterpart to nova?
wild arch
Rain of arrows
opaque forge
since I uh, tend to do RoA and would like to have different effects in that form factor sometimes
mellow zenith
I would guess Perfect fossils won't be able to roll jewelry quality since jewelry quality isn't generic the way quality is on other items. There are categories of quality, I don't know how fossil crafts would account for that.
livid apex
more permanent power creep for standard wew
lucid stone
Arrow Nova Support should have a reverse effect on rain skills.
shy pivot
barrage toxic rain ? 🤔
wild arch
Do you think using arrow nova with barrage gets rid of the extra attack time modifier?
Or would it make the animation for firing that one arrow longer
wild arch
Hmmm
Traps and mines should be auto aiming arrow novas directly on top of enemies, right?
barren crescent
patent canyon
it should but think how much of a delay there will be
throw mines, detonate mines, wait for payload to land, hit
wild arch
Or just use traps 😬
patent canyon
its still 2 clunky things in one, sure it will work, sure it will kill entire content maybe but how clunky can it become untill it becomes complete cancer ass to play with
wild arch
Not RF enough for you?
deft girder
Throw mines has 0.3 delay I think
I posted the timing here long ago I think.
Err found it. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/185829045596848129/625079326966153262/VUDKtJvds8.png
Detonate speed makes the mine less clunky to use.
But also throw speed as mines can be detonated mid air, remove that 0.3 sec delay on land.
potent schooner
So, am I seeing this wrong, or did Xoph's Nurture get nerfed?
Changing it to a support gem adds mana cost, but the prolif range doesn't change AFAIK
silver kettle
The prolif range is 20, up from 15. More importantly, ignite prolif is 39% more burning damage
potent schooner
Yeah, if they fix the support so it actually does that. Last I knew it was still bugged and didn't change the damage.
livid lake
it won't change the tooltip because its ignite damage.
violet nymph
^
slender temple
i hate tooltip
it lies so much
it says my spectres are doing 400 dps
meanwhile if i stand there
they can kill t16 stuff in a few hits
crystal pulsar
Saw the new burning arrow gem... What's the difference between another dot that does 30% of ignite damage and 30% more ignite damage?
silver kettle
The new dot stacks five times
According to the description at the top
So it's 150% more ignite damage if you keep it stacked, but requires you to hit more often to do that
twin rampart
crystal pulsar
Oh ok, I missed that. I guess it won't prolif though?
crystal pulsar
It says "with this skill"
You can still prolif for clear and stack the debuff for single target
Seems good?
But maybe depends on how scourge arrow changes
old egret
@slender temple are you talking about just random mobs in a t16 map, or t16 bosses? The tooltip IS crap, cause it doesn't factor in alot of stuff, like debuffs/buffs, their special abilities (thats just their base attack damage) and it'd be per spectre. It doesn't get you an accurate count of your dps, but it is accurate compared to itself. Meaning, if something makes it go up, it is increasing your spectre dps, at least.
slender temple
@old egret random mobs. my unbuffed no mod no node spectres can't tickle bosses
also i use hte pets for culling
i just let htem kill sometimes to see if they can
violet nymph
Has it been actually confirmed that burning arrow doesn't also let you apply an initial full ignite as well as the 5 debuffs
"When you ignite an enemy you also"
wild arch
You apply both an ignite and a secondary burn
I don't think the tooltip can be any clearer
violet nymph
i was hearing a ton of arguments that the secondary burn is the only burn
wild arch
Lol what
violet nymph
@compact junco
deft girder
Thats the rework or live?
violet nymph
rework
deft girder
Nice buff.
violet nymph
people were arguing "you get more damage if you hit targets a bunch but if you're running you do less damage overall"
which is entirely false
deft girder
Im assuming the debuff stack.
deft girder
Darn
violet nymph
last line of the green text
violet nymph
now it has 150% more if you apply 5 hits
wild arch
It's much better if you're attacking constantly
It's basically ignite version of crimson dance
If you only shoot once then it's definitely weaker
violet nymph
this is why it was seen used with barrage in the gameplay demos
wild arch
They really want you to use barrage
wild arch
But yeah, depending on how harsh the nerf is, scourge arrow will still beat it in terms of ignite
I think it's still better to build burning arrow for hit damage
The free 100% fire conversion is nice
Actually
Hold up
I forgot BA had the extra ignite threshold
Hmm
wild arch
Burning arrow trickster with zerphi's heart and fire volkuur's
Mad ignites and poisons at the same time
That scale extra hard with flat phys
compact junco
@violet nymph i never said that you wont apply full ignite. what i said is that based on the wording it sounds like the debuff will not stack with multiple ignites in terms of damage. e.g currently with threshold +1 ignite jewel you get (100 (base) + 100 (second ignite)) * 1.68 (multiplier on the gem), and if the stacks works like i think they do you get 100 (base) + 100 * 1.5 (debuff) + 100 (second ignite) what is barely even a buff
also the debuff lasts 4 seconds you will never need to use barrage with it to apply all 5 stacks
wild arch
You will if the stacks have individual timers
compact junco
that is not really relevant, attacking 5 times in 4 seconds is pretty easy to do regardless if it refreshes or not, you will simply not stop attacking (and of course it will be more than that because you will have at least some extra duration from somewhere as dot build)
wild arch
Swift affliction would be 15% reduced duration
compact junco
swift affliction is not even good dps support
violet nymph
tailwind
compact junco
there are way better ones
wild arch
Is this pure ignite or hybrid?
compact junco
edwa/deadly/burning/immolate/inspiration
wild arch
Deadeye doesn't scale ignite at all
violet nymph
irrelevant
wild arch
Seems like a bit of a waste
wild arch
Why not go raider for survivability, speed and fire exposure?
compact junco
you will be better off with hit BA than that
violet nymph
area scales prolif from nurture
compact junco
and yes hit BA sounds horrible
wild arch
If you go xoph's you have free prolif
violet nymph
tailwind = fast
compact junco
but would still be better than ignite on deadeye probably
violet nymph
chain = fast
compact junco
chain sounds pretty useless when you have prolif
wild arch
7 frenzy + onslaught = fast as well
violet nymph
chain would go further than prolif range
compact junco
the +1 chain you get from deadeye? yeah right, it wont
violet nymph
it's not like you get 40 radius from prolif
it's only 20
50% area doesn't add +10 cause of how aoe works now
compact junco
yes and it spreads from itself, chaining 1 arrow while the whole pack is alive sounds pretty useless
you just have to hit pack with 1 single projectile and it dies, so you are better off investing into more projectiles and not chain
compact junco
it will be expensive, sure. but also its not like you really need it
violet nymph
ggg being like "make sure to get the hideout before 3.9 starts!" when in reality they're trying to flush the market of fragments that will become very very expensive when the league starts lol
compact junco
all i would actually bother with on burning arrow for coverage is arrow nova as you said as that probs has best coverge when one of your projectiles kills whole pack, and thats it, nothing else
compact junco
i mean they probably going to basically devalue most of standard items again with the new influenced bases so yeah they probably do not care about standard at all
violet nymph
how does prolif work if you destroy the body creating the prolif
wild arch
The aoe should stay there until it burns out
compact junco
corpse explosions break poison prolif from pathfinder from my experience, but idk if its the same about ignites
violet nymph
basically, what would happen if you did ignite prolif/storm's gift/inpulsa
compact junco
ignite prolif is just ignites you inflict so it should work
but also, why would you bother with inpulsa and storm gift all that it would do is just explode packs faster, but they die fast enough
compact junco
asenaths then, less investment (but more expensive) :d and it would actually do some extra damage as if you are playing BA you will have some sources of phys as extra
silver kettle
My understanding is that that bug has been fixed now @wild arch
Quality doesn't give it phys damage anymore
wild arch
So no fire then?
midnight phoenix
If u have flat phys from somewhere else then it will convert
But not natively from the bow pdps
wild arch
Good
wild arch
That means lightning/cold ignite is a possibility
wild arch
Equilibrium
compact junco
yes, and people were doing that even before. but its just weaker than actually good bow even with EE
wild arch
What about hrimburn with hyrri's ire
violet nymph
tbh probably much better
wild arch
midnight phoenix
Im sure i saw somebody doing hrimburn dex stacking
compact junco
you can just take that, switch BA to scourge arrow and your damage will be way better and you will be able to use actual weapon
midnight phoenix
It looked absolutely awful
wild arch
First of all scourge arrow is likely getting nerfed
violet nymph
depends on how
compact junco
doubt it will be nerfed much for ailments. and even then it will most likely be still better
violet nymph
^^^
compact junco
because again, you dont have weapon
violet nymph
they'll nerf ele scaling
compact junco
yes
wild arch
So at 49% added damage effectiveness that would be equal to 367.5% effectiveness for the ignite?
compact junco
sounds about right
wild arch
Then new burning arrow will have 644% at full burn upkeep
wild arch
Do you know how added damage effectiveness works
violet nymph
scourge arrow has 49% added damage effectiveness
burning arrow has 150% added damage effectiveness
you're talking about 2 entirely different skills
wild arch
BA has 184% at gem level 20
compact junco
you are counting also extra igntie what is fair i guess but you still have 20% multi from emberwake for SA. and also, again, if you are doing cold BA, you dont have any weapon
wild arch
Ire has a tiny bit less damage than hopeshredder
violet nymph
it seemed like you were linking scourge arrow and burning arrow with the 644% number
like what
wild arch
They look practically the same atm
violet nymph
???
wild arch
In terms of effective ignite dps
violet nymph
how does new burning arrow have 644% at full burn upkeep
compact junco
184 * 3.5
wild arch
With the threshold you get a second ignite
And the secondary burn at 5 stacks equals an ignite and a half
compact junco
its 30% of ignite damage, so it does that damage over 4s
what is correct ignite dps
wild arch
30% of an ignite's damage x5 = 150% ignite damage
compact junco
like 1.5 ignite
patent canyon
150% over 4s so its techincally counted as 37.5% per every second tho
compact junco
and its from ignite damage not dps, and ignite damage is ignite dps spread over 4 seconds
violet nymph
it's 150% FOR 4 seconds
violet nymph
they're mini-ignites
wild arch
On semi-related note: this exists
compact junco
also if its not ignite or burn it and it just takes ignite damage as base could have interesting interaction with slower/faster ignites/burns, well, interesting means no interaction, so emberwake might do something useful for it, im too lazy to actually do the math
but imo EA just beats BA in like every possible scenario at least based on their reveals
both it cost and damage, only annoying thing is fuses for clearing
wild arch
Wait was EA revealed?
compact junco
not the gem, but the important parts did
no fuse duration extending and ability to stack more fuses automatically makes it better even if they dont change anything else (and barrage gem existance ofc)
wild arch
True
compact junco
like, check the base hit on that thing
with 5 fuses its like 10k-15k with some gem level scaling, its crazy
and they are also adding ignite multi per fuse
wild arch
Can the explosion crit?
compact junco
what might or might not mean that the base damage will be changed what would suck a bit
yes, it has 6 base crit
but scales only from generic crit
what sucks
violet nymph
so are they basically making EA a bow storm call
like it should've been
cause that's what it sounds like
compact junco
well if you mean in regards of one shots, then yeah
and also applying EE with EA is like 0 effort too what is nice
another interesting current interaction what i mentioned before is that mirage archer anywhere else in some secondary setup is just 7l
because the fuse damage scales from first fuse all other fuses are just to scale the first for the damage per fuse thing
compact junco
so you can do stupid stuff lime mirage archer + barrage + faster attacks in insanity gloves
and literally delete something if the fuse limit will be high or non existant
patent canyon
ummm....
wild arch
Toxic rain mirage with toxic rain ballistas on berserker
patent canyon
quill rain bow swap question mark
compact junco
hmm lol
violet nymph
just make sure to swap back before explosion
deft girder
I hear toxic rain.
patent canyon
because i am still used to weapon swap on ea
last time it was on double dipping days swapping to 2 consuming darks
wild arch
[Toxicity intensifies]
patent canyon
dot was bs
violet nymph
i'd be very very willing to bet they're making mirage archer less of a required link
deft girder
Toxic rain is very underated this league.
wild arch
I remember them mentioning that they wanted mirage archer to be useable on totems
compact junco
i dont think toxic rain is underrated, but if you mean for blight maps, you dont really need the slow
wild arch
But that was way back when it got added
compact junco
that is like putting totem on totems, that sounds silly
wild arch
The best kind of silly
deft girder
There are very few level 95+ TR characters. Alot of people are turn off from the quill rain nerf.
Hopefully someone can meme it in the ballistica TR.
wild arch
Who needs toxic rain when you can do poison split arrow with nova + barrage 😂
compact junco
well its just not that great for min maxing or speed clearing stuff, it excels in doing stuff with no investment required and its pretty damn nice for bossing but with high investment it gets outscaled fast so maybe people just dont bother to take it all the way that much
violet nymph
split arrow poison pf is going to be big
trust me
easiest fucking clear build to make on a budget
compact junco
well based on the numbers yeah probably. only annoying thing is either 2 gem setups or gem swap
violet nymph
fossil craft 60% to do 100% more on a bow, with metallic/aberrant/corroded
craft chaos dot
win
wild arch
Nova barrage is an absurd damage increase for poison at the cost of required aiming
deft girder
Barrage works with TR? 🤔
compact junco
nova + barrage is probably damage loss over just barrage
violet nymph
seriously.
wild arch
It's a loss for hits
violet nymph
just use arrow nova for clear and swap for barrage for dps
compact junco
but its nice if you dont want to gem swap to run both, and works for both single and clear
violet nymph
we're talking about split arrow
wild arch
Nobody's talking about tr
patent canyon
compact junco
but then you would be using nova, barrage, mirage archer and left with 3 links so 1 gem setup to do all with no swaps is probs bad idea
violet nymph
yeah
deft girder
wew bots.
compact junco
i would just run 2 setups honestly, one with nova and mirage archer, and one with barrage
violet nymph
it bothers me that we don't get pob til right before the league comes out
compact junco
nova is better than just base split arrow because of spread from PF imo, 360 coverage is nice
and prolifs takes care of rest
violet nymph
yup
deft girder
PoB hasn't been updated yet with mines.
violet nymph
i reckon it will feel better than scourge arrow
wild arch
Nova + barrage is 7 extra arrows on direct hits with no damage penalty for poison
violet nymph
mines work what are you talking about
deft girder
It used the old system. Unless it got updated a week ago.
compact junco
yeah i will probs at least try it in 3.9 as alternative for SA. its good to have more options for bow poisons without shooting myself in foot
violet nymph
yeah i guess technically nova barrage technically doesn't hurt your damage
let me check something though
violet nymph
hmm
compact junco
well barrage is single target skill adding barrage to it sounds counter productive
wild arch
You don't add barrage support...
violet nymph
it's questionable whether or not 7 extra arrows for 2 links is better than like 80% more damage for 2 links
compact junco
and you still want to be at close range as I dont think you would want to use regular barrage on poison build
wild arch
Bruh
violet nymph
split arrow barrage will definitely be better than normal barrage, especially for poison
wild arch
Slapping nova on barrage lets you land all hits from far away
compact junco
but you still use point blank as you are hit build @wild arch
wild arch
Split arrow might get nerfed
violet nymph
what
compact junco
and if it works like SA, the point blank comes from you
not from the payload arrow
compact junco
well we were just talking about split + barrage being better than regular barrage for poison build so I assumed you want to slap on nova on barrage hit build
wild arch
wild arch
@violet nymph split arrow will be able to shotgun by default so it will most likely take a hit to damage effectiveness
barren crescent
¯_(ツ)_/¯
compact junco
where did they said anything about split arrow being able to shotgun by default?
they said that only about shrapnel shot
wild arch
At exilecon
midnight phoenix
Thats interesting, i didnt hear that i dont think?
wild arch
Split is getting renamed to shrapnel
silver kettle
uh you've misinterpreted something
midnight phoenix
Eh what i definitely didnt hear that
silver kettle
no changes to split were announced
violet nymph
what
silver kettle
shrapnel is getting changed to galvanic arrow
wild arch
And the old lightning shrapnel arrow is being renamed to galvanic arrow
compact junco
oh no this is way too deep in big galvanic/shrapnel confusion ™️
silver kettle
yeah you're all jumbled around mate
wild arch
Split -> new shrapnel
Old shrapnel -> galvanic
midnight phoenix
Evidence for split --> new shrapnel please
midnight phoenix
Evidence please
compact junco
wild arch
Go rewatch exilecon day 1
midnight phoenix
No
wild arch
I don't remember the timestamp
midnight phoenix
Vod with timestamp required for outlandish claims
deft girder
I'm still confused.
compact junco
https://clips.twitch.tv/ColorfulHappyJellyfishWow this is them talking about ba/explosive/shrapnel on exilecon, only thing they said about shrapnel shot there is it will shotgun and thats it, nothing about split arrow or renaming
midnight phoenix
:+1:
silver kettle
also https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2679908 mentions shrapnel ballista being a new gem and https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2682345 states shrapnel shot being renamed to galvanic arrow
deft girder
I think I'm miss remembering if they are doing something about range attack totem.
compact junco
range attack totem will be ballista support
midnight phoenix
Yes that appears to be what they said
wild arch
That's stupid
midnight phoenix
At least thats how i interpreted it
Well it has like 3 projectiles at level 1 to go with the cone now
If the 4.0 demos were using the current build of galvanic arrow
wild arch
And barrage does a cone with every arrow
wild arch
There's no reason to use it without barrage and barrage already shotguns
So it's completely pointless
wild arch
That's what you got the cone on it for
midnight phoenix
The cone is the tiniest of dick aoe on live
It might be better now
With better scaling
wild arch
And why did they show split arrow on the screen when talking about shrapnel shot
midnight phoenix
That video has caused a lot of confusion all round
It probably could have been edited a little better
But hey cant get everything perfect
deft girder
It could get +1 aoe range at max level....
wild arch
It gets aoe from projectile speed now
compact junco
how often do you actually grab proj speed, and why would you even bother with scaling aoe on projectile skill, when actually grabbing more projectiles gives way better results
the cone will be purely for single target if anyone will even use the skill
deft girder
I mean increasing its base aoe at certain level. Projectile speed tends to be free on bow builds anyway.
wild arch
if anyone will even use the skill
compact junco
do not looks very free to me :d
wild arch
midnight phoenix
But if i need a separate 6l for clear cos its still shitty shrapnel shot at heart
Im just going to play scourge for the 50th time
deft girder
If you are deadeye then yes.
wild arch
Taking galvanic to endgame is the same as taking heavy strike to endgame
compact junco
well with heavy strike you can at least meme with stuns :d
wild arch
Can you? Sure, but there are better options
midnight phoenix
Galvanic barrage will do about the same single target dps as scourge arrow
compact junco
its unfortunate that conversion bow builds are non-existant because all those conversion skills do not actually mean anything
midnight phoenix
If theres no numbers changes to scourge arrow
Its just u never want to clear anything with galvanic barrage
compact junco
yeah sa is nice, decent clear, good single target, no 2 6 links. even if they lowered its damage by like 20% i would still play it
wild arch
Just save yourself the epilepsy and use literally any other skill with barrage
midnight phoenix
They all do less dps unless u are poison
I think i assumed galvanic will go to +4 projectiles at gem level 20 since its +2 at level 1
If its some other number the math changes obviously
wild arch
I can bet deadeye's bleed node will be buffed or replaced with something that scales ailments harder
midnight phoenix
Have to wait for 20/20 gems before final decision
compact junco
buffing rupture for puncture on deadeye would be really nice instead of just grabbing glad on basically any bleed build in existence
wild arch
The ensnaring arrow's always moving and the heavy projectile penalties on the new supports really make me feel like they'll try to force some form of dot bow archetype
Zerker/glad scion bleeds a tad bit harder
Sure you lose out on the pop and maim
compact junco
and challenger charges what is pretty big one on bow, but otherwise yeah i guess
wild arch
Haemophilia should still be decent enough for trash
If you're focusing purely on bleed then the charges only help crimson dance
compact junco
its just for the movement speed tbh
compact junco
yeah
wild arch
I was thinking about assassin with perfect agony
Shoot your puncture first to get easy double crit chance and then quickly tag them with ensnare
Maybe even go for fallacy and still hit 100% crit with low investment
violet nymph
puncture/gmp/nova/damage/damage/damage
ensnaring arrow/nova/gmp/mirage archer
using ensnaring arrow occasionally to make the entire screen ensnared for a while
puncture for clearing things
haemophillia
etc
imo deadeye would be best for it
obv
i've had mixed reactions to this setup, the main one being WHY NOT USE MIRAGE ARCHER IN MAIN SKILL IBGKSEJRGBEGJKNR
or things like "why not just ensnaring arrow to clear instead of using two skills"
bright peak
so is xoph usable now
midnight phoenix
Prolly useable
Its still a really slow bow
So it wont feel great to actually play
If its any good it will be because of new burning arrow not really because it gives u a free 6th best support gem
bright peak
oh
violet nymph
imo it's really good, you just need to play berserker or something
wild arch
Berserker can make anything attack related good
violet nymph
would it be broken if inc area was like "diffuse support" or something, and gave a more area of effect/less area damage mod, as if it was the opposite of concentrated effect
violet nymph
but that also gave more damage
a diffuse support gem would need to have really heavy damage penalty for the clearspeed you get out of it
as if your damage was in a 4l
or even less
wild arch
What's the point then
violet nymph
so that to make use of it you have to also invest heavily in damage
of course, for all we know there will be an increased area of effect plus support
wild arch
I'd rather stick with less area and do reasonable damage while having some survivability
violet nymph
some people want to zoomzoom
deft girder
What if no downside?
violet nymph
bladefall
glacial cascade
if it has no downside it's useless for the stated skills
some skills want less area
deft girder
Probably a pipe dream but iAoE+ with +1 base AoE on top of its increase aoe.
violet nymph
rain of arrows
wild arch
Firestorm with intensify, cascade+ and conc(hopefully+)
violet nymph
guh
wild arch
Keep intensify at lvl 1
deft girder
Only supports gets plus version correct?
violet nymph
yes
wild arch
Hmm
violet nymph
oh, i just realized
wild arch
Stack aoe bladefall with cascade+
violet nymph
this league will be the first in like 6 months with a mechanic that won't give a ton of exp
deft girder
Minefield Support plus. 
wild arch
What would that even do
violet nymph
yeah @wild arch some skills will have actual fucking clearspeed with cascade+
bladefall is a good example
deft girder
Probably lower "less Mine Throwing Speed".
violet nymph
more mines
deft girder
Which mean more mine spamming.
wild arch
The + supports have some extra effects
Just faster throwing speed or more mines wouldn't be enough
deft girder
It would actually be pretty good if it remove mine cap. (Or at least make it massive)
Probably too op
wild arch
The transfig he gets is mana to generic damage
violet nymph
that sounds like an awful fucking tree
deft girder
bladefall poison benefit from spamming it and generic damage. Alot of totem = alot of pew pew.
wild arch
And now imagine the overlaps with cascade+ and 100% inc aoe from mana
deft girder
Does minion damage work like that? With poison I mean.
It kinda generic damage for minion.
wild arch
If you make minion damage apply to yourself then it does
The wheel that does that is conveniently next to templar
deft girder
Alright. I was thinking of running a ballista version.
wild arch
That should work too
deft girder
Well its more of just scaling the DoT damage and not going for poison but templar side has alot of generic damage so its fine.
violet nymph
what do you even do with the other 4 points
deft girder
Yea TR likes some of it.
wild arch
2 mana nodes, charges and the first totem node
deft girder
I'm getting tired of running a TR mine, hurts my hand. :x
wild arch
You gain generic damage and aoe from stacking mana which you can use for mom
Generic damage from killing stuff recently
Every build can drop a totem for bosses or big targets for some extra speed
And charges
deft girder
Oh yea there is minion increase and reduce attack speed apply to you.
wild arch
Yup
deft girder
So I should have enough attack speed.
wild arch
Great general purpose ascendancy located in the perfect general purpose area
deft girder
Missing out a bit of more damage does kinda hurt.
I have to wait until more information to calculate the dps. :x
wild arch
Not to mention the insanity that will be manastorm
Manastorm power siphon poison barrage
deft girder
I wonder if they going to change the totem quiver.
deft girder
I guess the build I'm going for is going to use it anyway.
+2 would be nice though.
"0.2% of Physical Attack Damage Leeched as Mana" is a really weird stats for a totem quiver though.
deft girder
I forgot that GGG is adding +x ballista totems on tree.
So yeah that quiver really need a buff.
violet nymph
"your ballista totems can be placed #% further away"
deft girder
If they are on the right side, it could make it easier to grab a couple of important nodes.
violet nymph
"#% increased totem placement speed"
"skills used by your ballista totems () 1 additional time"
deft girder
Don't they place really fast?
deft girder
Hopefully they added 1 extra totem placement.
It would be annoying to spam summon 10 totem.
If you are on the right side of the tree like shadow or ranger.
violet nymph
it's all mana shit, by the way
the other stats
so yeah it needs an entire redesign lol
came out back in prophecy
"Skills used by your Ballistas Chain 1 additional time"
deft girder
useless on RoA.
deft girder
violet nymph
i'm dabbing cause that makes roa worse lmao
deft girder
+2 ballista totem and +1 totem placement. Probably life here and totem life.
Wishful thinking.
violet nymph
what's the difference between + ballista and + totem placement
deft girder
You only place 1 totem at a time. I could have word it better.
deft girder
Basically you summon two totem instead of 1.
spice cipher
Aoe , chain , pierce wheels would be nice
violet nymph
violet nymph
it's generally useless cause pierce isn't generally something people don't already have in builds they need it for
spice cipher
Chain would be nice tho
violet nymph
i.e. if people need pierce, they already have it
spice cipher
Imagine a chain and fork cluster
spice cipher
They could make it have a heavy downside
violet nymph
there aren't downsides on notables
spice cipher
Hey, I’m just theory crafting a bit here just to be silly
deft girder
One of the skill tree nodes makes your projectile look like forks.
spice cipher
A keystone then
spice cipher
Can’t pierce or chain
50% less damage per proj
spice cipher
Yeah
Better worded
That’s balanced enough, plus not every proj build wants fork
It’d be nice for the builds that did tho
violet nymph
i want to play spectral shield throw next league
deft girder
That reminds me... rearguard buff pls.
violet nymph
one way or another i will make it work
spice cipher
I’ll prob follow the sorta meta builds like I’ve been doing
midnight phoenix
The weapon u use for sst depends on the build
Its usually something that helps ur single target since sst single target is somewhere between mediocre and shit
violet nymph
spectral throw tree first draft
midnight phoenix
It always depends on ur build
Word of warning crit sst is very expensive for the dmg u get
midnight phoenix
Some ppl trek to EO
Some glads play bleed sst as a pure clear build with no single target
The basic problem with crit sst is that u have a 5 base crit shield and very few crit nodes
violet nymph
hmm
midnight phoenix
I had a quick look on ninja the only crit sst is a mega pob warrior with a 500ex build
At least in trade league
midnight phoenix
As an entry level weapon for sst i recommend ewars mirage
At least for deadeye sst
U can try dps with crit gem + maligaro
Usually crit gem is not very efficient for total dps but maybe u can make it work
Hatred watchers eye etc
violet nymph
what's a reasonable amount of evasion to get on a lacquered buckler for a decent price
that's the best evasion shield base
looks like about 1500-1600
midnight phoenix
Even if ur bottom right most ppl use armor shields
If ur in the 1600 range u just buy a lioneyes remorse
violet nymph
i mean
midnight phoenix
Which gives 200 life
The usual progression is lioneyes --> magna eclipsis --> big dick 3k armor/ev shield
violet nymph
how do you get 3k
midnight phoenix
Triple t1 prefixes
violet nymph
is there suffix then
violet nymph
midnight phoenix
As an example of a big dick endgame shield
U dont need one that good
Thats probably about as good as it gets tho
violet nymph
damn the armour bases have more armour than the evasion bases have evasion
well that's not fair
arctic briar
20m big dick build