unless bows got crazy good.
#1┃mirage-league
spice cipher
I’m gonna do a lightening something starter
valid isle
after i find a good bow or two, i might swap over to a bow user later on to mess with it
spice cipher
Haven’t done ele builds
valid isle
try out something like lightning arrow barrage or ice shot barrage
spice cipher
Thinking the nova support for clear
rugged locust
power siphon has implicit +projectiles, right? and it works with barrage?
spice cipher
Afaik yes
valid isle
Yeah, PS will be a great boss killer.
rugged locust
will be fun when poe2 comes, then you can have a clearing power siphon and a bossing power siphon
valid isle
Nothing. ES Cont is insane clear speed.
rugged locust
flicker strike is fast
final umbra
Just don't wanna play a spellcaster, would prefer beating things with sticks
valid isle
like, you don't even have to try.
patent canyon
well geared melee char will outspeed ed
valid isle
that isnt probable, given that ED will clear off screen
a single cast of ED + Cont cleared legion pillars.
patent canyon
what stops melee from clearing offscreen?
final umbra
If it has radiating effects it can do it
patent canyon
you hit in melee you can then offscreen with something like wildstrike or frostblades
if you take legions, sure ed is the god there
if you take maps 90% of melee skills will be faster
valid isle
but overall, a proper ED build can hit about 1m DoT easy
and you will clear screens worth in a single cast.
so its not about damage, its just its ability to spread
(that said, dont take anything that makes enemies explode, as i believe that messes with cont's spreading effect.)
spice cipher
Reave can offscreen
wet plaza
[x] doubt on the easily
spice cipher
Especially Vaal reave
Lacerate
Can name a bunch of that do it easily
And can scale dmg easier
spice cipher
I started both of those I mentioned
valid isle
huh. I have tried lacerate as a starter and did not find its clear speed that crazy.
wet plaza
i'd like to see the 1m dps ed char
to my knowledge that requires quite some investment to hit the 1m on ed
valid isle
they made it way easier now
since things give +all gem level rather than socketed
so you can dual wand or wand/shield for +4 gem levels, iirc.
wet plaza
that sounds quite expensive
valid isle
double +1 wands were selling for not too much, if i remember correctly
though good luck ever getting a +5 staff
dusty umbra
@valid isle i sold +4 for 60 ex week 2 or 3
valid isle
Yeah, thats a staff though :p
Wands only go up to +2
a +5 staff (which iirc is something akin to 1/100k crafts) should be a mirror lol
So doing super budget starter, using scion because why the hell not, and only 5 links with 0 quality gems
you can get ED up to around 500k DPS for bosses.
and only about 300k for packs since you wont bother to wither them or what have you.
(and i didnt even pick jewels or gear yet outside of a vixin's entrapment and a cane of unraveling, which are both dirt cheap)
spice cipher
Scion would be less dmg than like occ wouldn’t it?
valid isle
yes/no. Witch is annoying since if you go the multi curse route, things explode, which causes cont to not spread, which i still consider a bug but w/e
they havent fixed it yet, so i think its considered intentional at this point.
its better damage for bosses though, but super annoying for clear.
i also wanted more life and more duration+ stuff
that said, yes, for bosses a witch occ could do about 20% more damage than what i can.
so probably on around 600k~650k
(i lied, a witch is closer to 35% more damage)
valid isle
actually, yeah, trickster is much better
with trickster im hitting:
205% increased life
800k DoT for bosses
500k DoT for packs.
can probably drop some life, tbh, and instead branch out a bit more into other things.
violet nymph
So.... with new totem AI in 4.0 we can totally play ED/C totems
valid isle
probably yeah lol, not sure how effective it will be though
valid isle
there, i made an ultra budget 5l only ED trickster lol
I am pretty sure this is a 100% solid league starter.
uses only two uniques, and every other item is a rare with no mod that is above tier 5 lol
both uniques are 1c uniques.
patent canyon
its alright
topaz tide
as a starter
patent canyon
also alright
wild arch
I was thinking about an iron grip chieftain but the 100% conversion makes me reconsider
Iron grip berserker maybe 
wild arch
But that was the main reason
valid isle
or take the conversion node, and throw on as much other ele damage types as you can
wild arch
100% phys as extra fire periodically
Where would you put the last point for a burning arrow chieftain?
wet plaza
in lots of regrets
violet nymph
Sooo
I'm thinking about playing split arrow instead of scourge arrow as a starter
Poison pathfinder
Split arrow/gmp/nova for clear
Split arrow/gmp/barrage for bosses
Might be good
Might not need gmp at all
torpid sonnet
You probably dont want GMP with split arrow
and iirc they will change split arrow so all the projectiles can hit a single target, so you dont need barrage either
wild arch
Nova split arrow could be effective for single target as well assuming that a direct hit would make every arrow hit the target
valid isle
lightning arrow barrage will be fun i think.
wild arch
Barrage support just sounds great for skills that need to land many hits fast but don't want to invest into attack speed
Best examples being the new burning arrow and crimson dance puncture
And maybe poison assassin to an extent
barren crescent
barrage barrage
valid isle
20/20 would play
wild arch
Why not barrage nova at that point 
valid isle
i want barrage + fork plus + chain plus
lets cover the world in arrows
also, barrage ele hit ele equalibrum maybe? <~<
valid isle
boo
wild arch
Bruh
Poison will deal full damage
What I want to know is how will scourge arrow interact with these supports
Because neither of them say that channels aren't supported
patent canyon
it wont
silver kettle
Is it rip? That's still 20 arrows all hitting the same target in exchange for halved attack speed
wild arch
It doesn't just slow your attack speed
You're immobilised until you finish the barrage
patent canyon
you can cancel with movement skills
wild arch
Well in that case all's good
final umbra
How do you make cyclone hit offscreen, like what effects could you slap onto it so your hits radiate
wild arch
Don't think you can anymore
Except maybe str stacking aoe maces with shockwave
Hmm
Dyadian dawn burning arrow might be kinda nuts
patent canyon
question will be if it can reach reasonable ignites still
wild arch
So how exactly does fork plus work?
Do the forked projectiles also fork once?
Or do the initial ones fork into 4?
wild arch
Assuming that blight stays, the returning projectiles would be nice to see
silver kettle
Blight staying is a safe assumption, Chris locked that in during the 3.9 panel
silver kettle
Yeah we'll see. Basically what happened was someone asked what was going to happen to Blight, Neon said "we were originally planning to give it the Breach treatment but based on community feedback we need to revisit that". Then Chris asked the audience what they thought via show of hands, and it was about 60/40 in favour of keeping. Chris said something like "Okay, we'll make it awesome then put it in the game"
silver kettle
Yeah
wet plaza
basically boring as soon as you reliably finish them
violet nymph
How will oils woooorkkkk
If blight is gone are they gonna add blight chests to legion, etc
Will there be oil div cards
So thoughts on arrow nova working on shotgunning skills?
silver kettle
how many bow skills even shotgun? I can't think of one besides new shrapnel shot
if you can land the primary arrow right on top of a boss then shrapnel nova would be pretty sweet though
violet nymph
galvanic arrow if that's seperate from shrapnel
or if that's the reworked name
cuz galvanic arrow is a new level 1 skill that was shown off when mathil played poe2 on stream
and it's a lot shorter of range
timid geyser
Yeah, I'm also under then assumption it is reworked shrapnel shot, but nothing confirms it.
violet nymph
prob reworked and name change like holy flame totem
but still. arrow nova galvanic arrow into a boss
silver kettle
definitely seems like good single target. just would be frustrating to hit against a moving target
cause your aim has to be really precise
violet nymph
true. just really good on the big guys really
which hey, in poe2 we'll have plenty of 6l to work with
so then we'd be able to have a skill for those situations
silver kettle
very true. keen for that
violet nymph
like, that's a boss shredder type skill and with enough APS and Arrow speed, you'd be able to deal with moving targets
silver kettle
that said, depending on what happens to deadeye in 4.0 the new survivalist asc might just become the default for bow builds because you can fuck around with eight 7Ls
that seems like a skill for every situation on its own
violet nymph
also arrow speed, increases/reduces it's aoe
which slower projectiles might actually be a valuable thing for it cuz i read that as tightens up it's cone
altho could just make the overall worse. and faster is better for range
either way would be cool
i'm curious as to what ratio arrow speed converts to aoe
if it's 1:1, then faster proj is actually more AoE than inc AoE
and faster proj also gets damage on top of the aoe for it. which is damn good
spice cipher
@silver kettle isnt it just 4 tops?
silver kettle
it splits each skill socketed in your bow into two. bows have four sockets in PoE2
old egret
idk, i think it might be overkill. That's sorta been my question about how this will play out.. like, 3-5 6L skills i can sorta understand, after that, i don't see it mattering for some builds. Unless every build just starts adding like minions, im having trouble seeing the point.
like.. you got a clear skill, a single target skill, a movement skill, a debuffing totem, your aura setup, and then? thats like 5. what else can you add that even increases your dps. Maybe a cwdt setup or two for survivability, ok.
but i dont see most builds needing like tabula or things that give them extra 6L/7L setups really
not saying that asc wont be good, just having a 7L on your main skill might be super valuable, since its a lvl 20 version of the gem, i believe? But, you could get similar effects from gear before. I'm just not convinced it'll be the 'default' build, necessarily.
spice cipher
wall of text
patent canyon
trump could learn from this wall
spice cipher
thats too much to read
honestly who cares, i want 6-9 6L gems so I can throw random shit in there that inc my dps
timid geyser
Meta gems will take advantage of the extra links.
silver kettle
I also wouldn't be surprised if they add/rework a bunch of skills with powerful effects but cooldowns
spice cipher
im sure there will be limits
so we dont become gods
and also so we dont burn instances
hard locust
anyone know if for conquerors of the atlas, the new 'centred atlas' replaces the old one or comes after defeating elder in the old one?
patent canyon
replaces
old egret
but more 6L doesnt necessarily increase your dps, thats my point. It gives you more options mostly, but a lot of builds are already 'one button' builds. very few builds even use two 6L now even when they had the option to.
But was specifically replying to viper about the survivalist asc. That 7L node with GMP/Barrage seems neat, but moreso for the convenience and 7L aspect then the 'extra setup' part.
tired knot
Cwdt, wave of conviction, curse on hit, curse, increased duration, fast casting
6 link curse setup
round charm
Chris Wilson in early PoE days wanted 6 links to be used as 2 skill gems being 5 linked
And the way he was portraying the new system, he wants players to use multiple primary skills
But like Enzee said, I dont think that will happen for majority of builds. One skill spam is king unless your main skills are layers
like storm brand
round charm
6linked spell totems
wintry apex
With so many main skill slots, I wonder if almost everyone is going to take totems + mines + traps for bossing
tired knot
I mean you could but probs be lazy
round charm
plenty of ways to increase dps with all 6 links, but One main primary skill spam is gonna stay meta
wintry apex
Lay mines and traps, put up some totems, for an even easier shaper oneshot
wintry apex
It also all really depends on how hard it'll be to 5 socket skill gems
ornate harness
too bad mines have a pathetic duration
wintry apex
How rare jeweller's and chromatics are going to be
tired knot
We dont know yet
ornate harness
problem with jewellers is that 6s -> 7 jewellers is gone
tired knot
Probs bendor recipe gonna change as well
round charm
I wouldnt mind that as long as 6 socketing chances arent changed
wintry apex
It's going to be 5 sockets, right?
round charm
yeah
ornate harness
well you can just pour all exp on your lv 20 gem on a lv 1 gem in order to swap them
round charm
my bad
ornate harness
wasn't there an infographic that one of the devs put up that said the lv requirements for # of sockets?
ornate harness
it was like lv 1 3s, lv 10 4s, lv 25 5s lv 50 6s or something of the sort
wintry apex
Do we know how exactly chromatics are going to work?
clear gust
I'm wondering how rare will 5 socket gems will be
ornate harness
chromes probably do the same thing: recolour sockets
wintry apex
I would assume we can use them on gems as well as armor just like before
ornate harness
yeah cuz socket colour changes on both of them
wintry apex
5 socket gems are probably going to be at least somewhat rare. They want them to have trade value
clear gust
and what will be the price diff on trade between 4-socket and 5-socket
wintry apex
So I would expect it at least in the 10-20c range, if not more
ornate harness
subtle nerf to white sockets btw, as dual coloured sockets will be a thing
clear gust
Would be weird to see 5s gems less rare than 6-links
ornate harness
i dunno
ornate harness
with 5s being more common, maybe GGG can fully balance around players having fully socketed skills
wintry apex
They said that it's probably going to be more difficult to have a fully six link setup than it is to have two six-links right now, but more easy to have a 5s gem than to have one six-link right now
wintry apex
They also said that vendors in the later acts would sell gems with higher amounts of base sockets
ornate harness
i wonder what 5s gems will vendor for
clear gust
1 ex :V
tired knot
Maybe jewellers
ornate harness
most likely
wintry apex
I can't imagine vendors ever selling any gem that goes beyond 3 sockets though
Anything else would be weird
ornate harness
yeah
ornate harness
buff to leveling btw, as you don't have to fiddle around with linked sockets to get a 2s/3s setup
old egret
wait, someone mentioned the gem xp thing before.. i thought that only worked for the same gems. i.e. lvl 20 fireball with 0 qual, you pickup a lvl 1 with 20 qual, transfer the exp
ornate harness
well yeah
old egret
but not like.. from fireball to scourge arrow
wintry apex
Oh yeah
old egret
ok maybe i just misread what they were saying, seemed like they implied you could just transfer between anything
ornate harness
but if you find a 5s fireball when you're using a 4s, it's not going to be as painful swapping
old egret
oh sure
clear gust
btw impale bow reave champion next league? 😄
clear gust
ah
old egret
that bow melee node is 4.0, yea
clear gust
:<
wintry apex
I wonder how the lapidary lense is going to interact with the new gem system
old egret
anyone else think maybe they should've had day 1 be 3.9/metamorph stuff and day 2 be 4.0 stuff? I think a lot of people are getting the info mixed up 😄
tired knot
(Double coreupt support gem+)
ornate harness
wait how to abyss sockets work now 
wintry apex
Double corrupt support gem+. Get -2 levels
tired knot
Thwy just work
round charm
they said abyss sockets will stay on gear
wintry apex
(I know that doesn't work)
tired knot
Just socket it in
ornate harness
interesting
clear gust
I havent watched the whole stream, but someone from my gaming group said it's gonna be in 3.9, so i wouldnt blame ggg for me not knowing
old egret
most of the items with abyss sockets, only have like 1-2 gem sockets now anyway, plenty of room
even the big pieces, like bows/chests, have like 4 'sockets'
wintry apex
Support+ gems will not be able to be used with their original versions in the same setup, right?
old egret
yea i dont think it would do anything
wintry apex
Imagine ancestral call
ornate harness
i have to imagine that's the case
wintry apex
With that one anoinment
old egret
its the same support gem, just 'plus ultra' 😄
old egret
think of it as like going above 21/23 heh
ornate harness
wait do we know what gmp+ does
clear gust
Is there any info on blight core integration?
ornate harness
is it more arrows or smaller less damage
wintry apex
Lightning strike. AC + AC+, GMP + GMP+.
old egret
a lvl 1 support plus is better then a 21/23, on average i think
clear gust
I'm wondering if annointments will be available
ornate harness
the new socket system is probably the biggest buff to necro we've seen after 3.8 btw
old egret
in 3.9, im guessing no. during the Q&A they said they were gonna 'fix up blight' before adding it
clear gust
Nice
wintry apex
RIP Tribal Fury
old egret
after chris took a poll of the audience asking who wanted it in the game
round charm
@clear gust They said it will be a small chance to spawn in a map, just like they integrated legion
wintry apex
Or whatever the name of the ancestral call annointment
round charm
idk when they will impliment it
old egret
they had originally planned to make blight core, in the first few weeks, but then we had a mixed reaction to it
ornate harness
very scientific analysis by chris says that he will maybe implement it
old egret
cause it is easy to add to core, not much to do
old egret
neon said they'd increase blighted map drops heavily, since you'd only be seeing a blight in 10% of maps
clear gust
I actually miss synthesis after blight lol
old egret
i like blighted maps when i play a class that can make towers, like summoner, but i can only do like 5-6 of them in a row before i want a break
wintry apex
Yeah, I feel like Blight Encounters are very much balanced to a pace that the devs think is healthy for the game, but simply not what the state of current player power reflects
old egret
even though the towers aren't 'necessary' its still sorta fun to do a tiny bit of strategy in which towers to make, and where
ornate harness
not to mention they still haven't fixed portal distance issues
among other things
round charm
old egret
nooice
round charm
I think at level 5 you will get the extra projectile
ornate harness
that is lv 5 dummy
round charm
they mentioned some support+ will only have bonus at level 5
old egret
he's saying you get 4 before lvl 5
clear gust
Blight mobs are too fast and deal too much damage, but they are not tanky enough
ornate harness
o
old egret
is his guess, anyway
ornate harness
5 proj is kinda weird also
round charm
Just saying some bonuses aren't until 5
old egret
and i could see it
ornate harness
shooting at something and having your LA bracket it is very oof
old egret
yea but the lvl 1 version is supposed to be better then the normal lvl 20
cause i think the plus gems only drop off conquerors, or maybe im remembering wrong?
wintry apex
Level 5 gem is like 20 level 20 gems though, right?
That's going to take one hell of a time
old egret
in terms of exp? something like that
eh, but we can spam red coward's trials 😄
that map is gonna be a biiiit more expensive this league, i think
wintry apex
Oh, unique maps are affected too? :O
pallid python
That makes 0 sense but I've been told its confirmed
old egret
when you socket the right watchstones
they said they adjusted some drop rates to compensate, and would adjust more if needed
pallid python
Poor design decision IMO
ornate harness
now will burial chambers be better as t14 or t1
old egret
but neon specifically said coward's and poorjoys become 'very efficient' and he was implying xp i guess
well you could elder burial before, and some people did
the watchstones are just shaper/elder orbs for a whole region, basically
old egret
in terms of sustain? i think you can
midnight phoenix
I look forward to the elder pjs rip videos on reddit
old egret
it's a little harder to explain, but you can still uncomplete the other connected maps in that region, boost it up to a high tier and uncomplete whatever other maps of that tier
wintry apex
But you can't have a t16 map drop and it be guaranteed a Burial Chambers, right?
Ohh really?
midnight phoenix
Maybe
pallid python
@ornate harness Same considerations as other leagues. Is it better to get the other loot at higher item level or no? I'm personally gonna get t16 always in metamorphosis, easy boss, good layout, and good card although if it's TRUE (as ggg has claimed) that you cant just farm 1 map infinitely that'll be difficult or annoying
old egret
oh, well maybe they changed something else im unaware of
wintry apex
Oh, I thought the way you unlock maps is in chunks, not individually
old egret
yea same
wintry apex
Or maybe you do unlock them in chunks, but can still uncomplete them seperately?
ornate harness
nah the chunks part is where you turn that region into yellow/red and sextant them up
old egret
well yea, im not totally sure how completion and regions work. They may have changed something there
ornate harness
that's what i got from the presentation anyways
old egret
thats what i was thinking, frostbite. but if grimro and ggg have said you cant farm 1 map forever, then something else must have changed
ornate harness
wait a gosh darn second how will poe 2 get pantheon if we already killed all the gods
pallid python
The new atlas system and metamorph benefit certain types of builds. Layout agnostic with both good clear and good single target. Idk why but ggg wants us to make all rounders again
old egret
innocence and/or sin grant you the old powers 😄
sin absorbed them all when you did, of course
he only gave you a small taste, kept most of it for himself.. greedy bastich
wintry apex
I wonder if we're going to get another endgame update before PoE 2 launch
ornate harness
yeah but this is a new batch of idiots who washed up on the shore
pallid python
Stop trying to figure out Poe 2 a year early and with no info really
ornate harness
it's fun to speculate
spice cipher
We have fun speculating , who cares?
old egret
the pantheon may go away completely for all we know.
but its easy to keep it, too. They have a perfect out with Sin
you do a side quest for Sin and he unlocks the campaign pantheons when you prove yourself, whatever. then the upgrades are still in maps.
spice cipher
If you raise your atlas to red tiers how will you sustain maps
old egret
thats what we were just talking about
spice cipher
Which is a 3.9 thing anyways
The new influence stuff will play a big role
Somehow
Maybe
ornate harness
unfortunately new altas on dec 13 means that i wont be able to do shaper/uber elder without the special zana thing that they were going to do
round charm
whats the zana thing
old egret
guardian maps show up in zana missions
ornate harness
GGG mentioned in one of the Q&A's i think about shaper missions being tied to zana rather than the altas itself in order to preserve the shaper and elder boss fights
round charm
oh okay\
spice cipher
Idk if putting them in zana missions is the best way
But I guess it’s ok now since we can spam missions
spice cipher
Then again I did countless zana missions and never saw synth maps
barren crescent
I mean ppl were farming shaper for year or two
urban saffron
Just glad I got Uber elder beat this and last league. Doubt I'll get to 'em once they're relegated to rare zana encounters
dapper lava
wth? I haven’t got to shaper yet, next league. ggg is making shaper even harder to get access to?
I haven’t played for a bit and now I’m annoyed already.
old egret
they are replacing him with the conquerors
instead of guardians/shaper, its 5 conquerors with their own special loot.
minor oyster
Neon said he would look into more ways to get shaper/elder encounters rather than just Zana missions
tidal frost
easy enough to sprinkle fragments into old league loot tables as needed
old egret
yea, i don't understand anyone upset at it. It's new content coming, the old content is still there if you want to do it, just need to do a few things for it.
there was a time when shaper/elder weren't even in the game, the game evolves and grows over time.
silver kettle
not legacy
just harder to access
it wouldn't surprise me if they up the spawn rate on it to compensate though
round charm
it wouldnt surprise me if they didnt
leaden bane
@round charm REAL FAX DAWG 😂 😂 😂
grave valve
so essentially poe 2 will give scion 2 ascendancies?
wild arch
I'm trying to think of the reason for making ensnared enemies always count as moving
Do they want you to play a puncture bow without crimson dance?
violet nymph
yes
i've come up with a cool way to make it work for clear too
in a 4l, use ensnaring arrow/mirage archer/gmp/arrow nova
in your 6l, use your puncture clear setup with NO mirage archer
and just keep the ensnaring arrow mirage archer up all the time
@wild arch
you'd definitely want to play deadeye or gladiator
i'd say deadeye with haemophilla/chain would be your best bet for clear
low kindle
Ensnaring arrow +toxic rain for no movement speed
silver kettle
TR totems with the Tactician ensnare node
violet nymph
i'm wondering if split arrow/arrow nova swapped for split arrow/barrage for single target could be a better poison setup than scourge arrow
wild arch
@violet nymph or you could put curse on hit ensnare in mechanism
Can't really think of any stats a rare quiver could offer to a bleed build apart from the tiny bit of flat phys implicit
violet nymph
you'd use drillneck pretty much always
haemophillia with vuln implicit would be BIS for clear/damage
wild arch
🤔
Can we just skip a year and go straight to 4.0 
I wanna do viper strike bow with split barrage mirage in mechanism so badly 
violet nymph
oh yeah i guess that's fucking nutty
worn crane
Mirage warchief totem
Warchief totems are really fast in budget build segment
Around 20-40c and you set
wild arch
Impale champ split arrow?
gray zealot
doesnt scale as well
i wonder how mechanism will function with the new skill gem stuff
lucid haven
barrage support inpale tho?
wispy ridge
Were still a ways away from new link n skill gem mechanic though.
Like real far away
gray zealot
yup and most likely will be
as they said the melee rework was due to new models in 4.0 but they couldnt say that before announcing poe2
autumn snow
bow rework is at 3.9
zenith warren
Hope they dont nerf necro to the ground, want to leaguestart with it
radiant lance
I'm sure necro will still be powerful especially as leaguestart
It was usable before the changes
violet nymph
i hope i can run miner
final umbra
Ancestral Warchief or whatever gives you bonus damage will ballista totems give you something like that too?
autumn snow
no
low kindle
Well we don't know for sure but probably not
wild arch
I wonder if the flat ele plus supports would be worth it for fire ele hit 🤔
wild arch
Don't you want more levels tho?
vast gazelle
you do
they will almost certainly be worth it if they behave like added cold plus
also did they comment how plus supports will interact with +gem levels
getting a +2 supports and level 4 empower is +7 levels on your added cold plus right out the gate
or any +levels makes it... relatively trivial to cap your added cold plus
gilded void
Pretty sure empower doesn't affect supports
quaint sentinel
if nothing changes between now and patch release
violet nymph
well considering the base size
it's not "that much"
considering the shot range was so small to start out with
vast gazelle
ah
silver kettle
Each support only checks the skill gem. It doesn't even check whether there are other supports in the links
midnight phoenix
I didnt try myself tho
@silver kettle so i said that exact thing yesterday and some dude told me u can support deathmark with cwdt and inc duration
silver kettle
oh god yeah
I have no idea about deathmark, the coding on that must be weird as hell
midnight phoenix
Ye its a skill gem stapled to a support gem im pretty sure
Like its coded that way
dusty umbra
@vast gazelle well u can get +4/5 to cold gems on gear how these will interact with levels is still a Q
vast gazelle
Yeah true
echo dove
It sounds like getting the plus gems, and then levelling them, won't be easy
sterile frost
If you have a few of the same Plus gem u can transfer experience tho
And considering you can have 4 6-links in your offhand (4 skill gem, 20 support) you can bank exp pretty quick (On supports anyway)
median wharf
violet nymph
oh look i was right about them making changes to sextants 😛
vast gazelle
i still have 2 questions
- do maps auto match the tier of what they are on the atlas
- are watchstones consumable
tired knot
I think it'll be maps you have stay the tier they are as... but you can drop the same map of higher tier if you have upgraded the atlas
Much like shaped maps
At least thats what im speculating
eager terrace
yeah neon said as much in one of those interviews
valid isle
they mentioned no double leveling the plus gems, @vast gazelle
they only go up to level 5, not 20.
vast gazelle
ah so you cant vendor recipe em?
silver kettle
that's what Neon said yeah
violet nymph
here's a question i have that i don't think has been answered yet
in 4.0, if you flip a gem from level 20/0 to 1/20, does it stay 6s
cause that's basically like creating a tabula for new builds
silver kettle
I don't believe that has been answered, but I think it would be a very safe assumption that it does
violet nymph
oooooh
that would be very exciting
man gem stuff is gonna be so profitable
and so much more fun
silver kettle
what if they give high socket gems level requirements though
violet nymph
in the gameplay preview both at exilecon and in the video released by ggg, chris states "as one of your 8 6-links" when there's clearly 9
1 each for gloves, boots, and helmet, 2 for body armour, and 4 for weapon slots
midnight phoenix
Its 9
violet nymph
i wonder if minion 6s gems are gonna be more expensive than others because of how minions work
midnight phoenix
They confirmed it afterwards chris just misspoke
violet nymph
alright
figured
21/23/6 raise spectre 15ex
so 21, 23, and vaal are the current corruption outcomes for gems
i wonder what kind of socket corruption outcomes will happen
white sockets? bricking socket rerolls (from 6 to 4)? increased sockets (from 4 to 6)?
silver kettle
gem corruption in PoE2 is going to be wild
violet nymph
that also reminds me
silver kettle
but honestly everything hooked into the current socket system is going to need substantial changes. Doesn't sound like GGG have figured out what most of those will be yet. Gonna be interesting
violet nymph
so if items have fixed socket numbers now
what kind of corruption outcomes could be changed for them
an additional socket? socketed gems supported by? removed socket(s)? white sockets? + to level?
corruption always has both negative and positive outcomes, and changing how sockets works could move the balance in one direction or another
so i'm guessing outcomes will be changed for items as well as gems
silver kettle
Neon(?) did mention that they'd probably have to change gear corruption a bit since the risk is so much lower when you don't lose an expensive 6L
violet nymph
sounds about right
ornate harness
does corrupting a regular 6l have a chance to break the link/modify sockets?
ornate harness
i see
silver kettle
and on the other hand, if an item is bricked by corruption it actually has an elevated chance to 6L
specifically, 1/144
violet nymph
is that the actual chance?
silver kettle
yep
violet nymph
i'm sure someone could use that number to determine how many vaults of atziri, at what % of corruption roll, they can profit off getting divine orbs from chests lol
silver kettle
though that's the chance on brick, so 1/600ish on corrupt
seems much easier to just run a bunch of vaults and count how many you get
in my experience I get a 6L every 3 or 4 vaults
violet nymph
my record for 6ls in a single vaults of atziri is 4
probably the best way to get divine orbs for cheap tbh
you make the money back just selling the fragments
silver kettle
it's so slow and boring though 😦
violet nymph
true
but so is flipping currency and trading in general
at least in vaults you walk around
midnight phoenix
1/144 is the chance on corrupt hey
Its 1/36 on brick
Cos 6 possible sockets 6 possible links all equal weighted
silver kettle
that's not the way I remember it
but the post this is all based off was a looooong time ago
very possibly misremembering
potent pelican
how do you currency flip correctly
violet nymph
scroll down
first, you take two currency.poe.trade searches
then you set two separate trade offers that are low on the list
for instance
if you set it so that you're getting 10c for 80 chance, and getting 100 chance for 10c, you're making 20 chance orbs every trade
more or less
at the beginning of the league, currency markets are extremely volatile and super prone to easy flipping
@potent pelican
potent pelican
oh
violet nymph
basically, once you have a significant amount of currency, it prints itself through flipping if you can manage not to spend it on anything besides flip trades
i personally have bad issues with that, i.e. i spend currency too much
potent pelican
lol
i do too
i made like 70 ex in raw cash this league
and like 150 in items
but im down to 2ex and only 1/4 of the way to my headhunter just cause i been playing a few builds
violet nymph
the real reason flipping works is because people will throw away their other currency for chaos at bad rates
i'm looking at alchs right now and, depending on how active people are, you can literally double your currency off it
sell alchs 6:1, buy alchs 3:1
potent pelican
dadgum
violet nymph
it's not very far down
potent pelican
wait you mean buy 3 alchs for 1 chaos?
potent pelican
kinda
violet nymph
generally i look at it from the person who's trading with me
for some reason it's easier in my head that way
potent pelican
hm
violet nymph
at this stage in the league i'd imagine flipping is rather slow
violet nymph
poison pathfinder bow
probably scourge arrow
unless split arrow feels better 😉
which it might
poison pathfinder is my choice specifically because the weapons are extremely easy to craft
for literally any weapon, the fossil craft is aberrant/metallic/corroded
corroded enables the poison modifier and disables a huge list of bad mods you don't want
aberrant makes the poison mods more common
limpid wigeon
ill probably play smite
violet nymph
and metallic gets rid of all the phys mods
limpid wigeon
i havent played smite in a few leagues
violet nymph
which, believe it or not, we don't want at all
not having any phys mods to choose from makes it extremely easy to get the big poison mod (60% chance to deal 100% more)
limpid wigeon
i played poison in blight and i really didnt like it
violet nymph
which poison
limpid wigeon
pestilent/viper assassin, i know its not optimal but that wasnt the problem
i just don't like not having corpse explosions, and it felt a little plain to itemize
lots of very high power common uniques
violet nymph
well yeah wasp nest was cheap very quickly
only uniques i'll be using are coralitos and embalmer
limpid wigeon
i beat shaper with dual wasp nests on a 5L viper strike
it was slow but honestly the fact i was so strong so fast was kind of disappointing
violet nymph
i kinda feel the same about my miner lol
there was no content it wasn't able to do by like 2 weeks into blight
by that point i had 100%ed the atlas and done uber elder
limpid wigeon
i couldn't do blights with viper/pestilent i guess, but that didn't really matter
because early in the league blights werent worth doing anyway
after i started my frost blades raider they had changed the droprates of blight maps and made them not freeze up the game
so i was actually able to do them
im glad metamorph is a little smaller in scale, but i don't think its going to be a very well liked league
violet nymph
whether or not metamorph is a good league is irrelevant
limpid wigeon
either the metamorphed uniques you make are going to be too tanky and take too long or they're going to evaporate instantly like every other non-phased boss
violet nymph
because of conquerors of the atlas
limpid wigeon
true, i have my own concerns about that too though
im glad for the extra content though
i'm sure it will be great
but the waystones seem confusing, like you could get trapped on low tiers way easier
if you dont find the boss
violet nymph
soooooooo
this is with the bow i intend to craft
with a drillneck
with flasks
and with an embalmer with despair implicit
no other gear
limpid wigeon
hmm
violet nymph
since it's a pathfinder, the poisons proliferate on death
so clear will be smooth
and it obviously has all the damage you'd need for... shaper, at least
lol
no idea what kind of damage the new endgame bosses will require
limpid wigeon
i imagine they will be tiered? so 4 conquerers, white yellow red uber, kind of like elder?
thats my assumption at least
violet nymph
since they can appear on specific maps
limpid wigeon
honestly that doesnt seem like much to me
violet nymph
i'd guess they can be any tier
limpid wigeon
considering we're losing 4 shaper guardians and the 6?ish? elder guardians
surely there will be more than just the conquerers
i hope
limpid wigeon
not really
yeah but you know how rare synthesis in zana was
i cant imagine shaper and elder will be very common
i wonder if you will still be able to get shaper fragments from places like safehouse and legion
violet nymph
they say they regret how rare the synth maps were
limpid wigeon
and i wonder if elder fragments will be put there too
violet nymph
i spent a long time making this tree like a week ago, very happy with it
feel free to ignore the hardened scars sitting there menacingly
who knows how we'll get oils this league
wild arch
Galvanic arrow nova with blind support for an authentic flashbang experience
honest egret
so thoughts on the barrage support + vaal burning arrow? that might be an interesting single target boost
wild arch
If it's an ignite build then sure
lucid haven
why tho
besides that its likely vaal skils cant be barraged
not like u can stack many ignites
dusty umbra
meanwhile i wanna see some extra / proj uniques to see how they'll work with stuff like icicle mine lol
wild arch
@lucid haven new burning arrow stacks pseudo ignites
deft girder
@violet nymph looks like tr
deft girder
Did they change the stats?
3 isnt that high for TR.
Im hoping GGG adds mines detonate on land unique.
Btw it massively weaken the ability to have chain reaction bonus.
tired knot
could you support siege balistas with mirage archer?
cobalt falcon
Is there any vaal version of ballista atm?
silver kettle
nope
deft girder
@midnight phoenix well yes with spell totem. Totem placement speed though.
midnight phoenix
?
rocky nebula
I assume multiple totem support works with siege ballista?
midnight phoenix
It does on live yes
silver kettle
Won't be worth using with new ballistas though
Since they already have fast placement and a high cap
Will be a damage loss
deft girder
Dex stacking ballista.
violet nymph
ye, multiple totems isn't really good except for clearing if you start with more than 2
i forget the calculations
rocky nebula
I think they might even remove tornado shot in poe 2, or turn it into a support like barrage
spice cipher
nova support would replace it if that was the case
tired knot
so its rip all +arrow to TS?
wintry apex
Double totems give you more survivability during boss fights as total totem placement time is halfed.
Well, almost halfed
violet nymph
oh that's something to think about. arrow nova ballista setups
didn't think how that could be used to simplify the problem of having to aim it precisely
wet harbor
will totem mines get the blastchain damage bonus for the life of the totem
if you were silly enough to try it
deft girder
They should.
wild arch
So if base moving bleed is 210% damage and crimson dance is up to 280%, would it be better to run a puncture bow with CD and barrage, or normal bleeds with ensnaring arrow and some better damage support 🤔
Am I right in comparing them as 70% increased Vs 40%-60% more?
jade badger
Atleast leveling will be better for ranged
I imagine the shrapnel ballistas will really help in bossing
Though what will be a good bow build for this league?
I assume explosive arrow
?
wild arch
Fire conversion ele hit will be nuts
sterile shuttle
Any generic bow tree with bow skill will do fine
final umbra
Is pure phys just bad
Like for the ballista build
I just want to go pure phys because...idk why, but I do, but is it going to be crap
grizzled moth
only really one map mod that cannot be run @final umbra
wild arch
Nah the ballistas won't care about that
Impale is pure phys and actually good
Might want some harder hitting attack for them like puncture
patent canyon
or that shotgun turret
considering it can actually shotgun with additional projectiles
distant scarab
Multiple Totem support makes you summon more per cast though so, it depends on if you can pull off your damage threshould with just 1 totem
Using it as more of a clear speed build where your game plan is just:
Move skill > Totem > Move skill > Totem > Move skill > Totem
You may want multiple totems support, because then its actually 60% more dps
regardless of your totem cap
because totem cap doesnt matter when you are doing that style of totem play, you only want to cast the spell once and then just move on
silver kettle
@distant scarab I really think the fast placement speed of new ballistas will render that a bit moot
happy to trade an extra quarter second per pack in exchange for craploads more damage
distant scarab
Its still 100% more totem placement speed effectively
distant scarab
What Im really curious about is Barrage Support with Ranged Totems 😮
Split Shot - Barrage Support - Ranged Totem
Barrage support makes any ranged skill effectively a shotgun skill now, which has a LOT of very fascinating mechanic shifts.
Tornado Shot with Barrage Support may be really interesting
patent canyon
tornado shot specifically will be worse by default
you are getting nados per single projectile rather than multiple at once
intead of hitting over 7 at once you hit 1
distant scarab
Im curious about its wording
"more attack time per projectile"
As opposed to "less attack speed"
patent canyon
to nerf added projectiles
distant scarab
But assuming they intend to make it work like barrage, I think (ignoring that attack time mod), you should still be shooting the same quantity of projectiles per second with barrage support
I dunno if it actually nerfs it though
midnight phoenix
The attack time math is pretty straightforward
patent canyon
now its +2 proj but slower
midnight phoenix
U add total number of projectiles together
distant scarab
So there will exist a breakpoint where +1 projectile is less dps I presume
midnight phoenix
Yes its 20
distant scarab
Im curious what effect GMP will have on DPS then at different projectile counts
midnight phoenix
Eh actually theres no hard breakpoint
distant scarab
There should be?
midnight phoenix
It just gets progressively worse
No
Its two increased modifiers
That scale against each other
distant scarab
does it just approach 0 as it approaches infinity?
midnight phoenix
Yer
patent canyon
its more and more damage over longer and longer period
at some point it doesnt matter and you can just attack again instead of adding more proj that gets better
distant scarab
So Attack Time, is that synonymous with Attack Delay?
patent canyon
not entirely
midnight phoenix
It is u take total number of projectiles
x0.05
Add 1
Ur skill now takes that long to fire compared to the original skill
distant scarab
So yes, attack delay and attack time are the same
midnight phoenix
If u have 20 projectiles ur skill takes 2x longer to fire
distant scarab
And APS is the inverse and Attack Time
ok lets calculate here
Yeah it approaches 0
distant scarab
GMP is still bonkers insane though
So going from 6=>10 projectiles via GMP, still works out to 43.33% more damage
patent canyon
that is assuming you hit all of them
distant scarab
Im assuming single target
patent canyon
well ofc but it will have spread
distant scarab
Huh?
patent canyon
you wont hit all of them standing half screen away
you will have to shove bow into boss ass to hit all
distant scarab
Barrage supports entire purpose appears to make any multi projectile skill behave like barrage
patent canyon
yes, essencially making skill single target
distant scarab
Right, I dont see why its weird to think you wont be landing all the hits
I land all the hits of Barrage right now when playing with it
patent canyon
if you stand on top of boss
midnight phoenix
Live barrage attacks a LOT faster than new barrage
patent canyon
getting even half screen away will mis some
distant scarab
yeah, which I do, because I instaphase the boss lol
patent canyon
also that
midnight phoenix
Even if ur standing on it
distant scarab
And you almost certainly are playing with point blank
I mean if you are doing this right, the boss shouldnt get a chance to move
I guess we dunno what Uber Exile fights will be like
patent canyon
safe to assume lots of phases and movement
midnight phoenix
I dont think i care about optimization if the attitude is
lul oneshot boss anyway
In that case who gives a fuck about best supports
distant scarab
I instaphase bosses with barrage is the point
But now I can instaphase them with skills OTHER than barrage via barrage support
midnight phoenix
Whats the difference
distant scarab
As in, barrage support enables me to instaphase
patent canyon
that also depends on boss
distant scarab
Is the point I am making here
distant scarab
The point is "Barrage Support allows us to instaphase bosses with skills that may have not had that power before"
midnight phoenix
k
distant scarab
Thats where Im going here
midnight phoenix
Its the same shit with different colors
distant scarab
So yeah, I think its safe to say that all hits will land in this application
Because that is precisely the application you would ever use barrage support for
distant scarab
Thus: Yeah, even going from 6=>10 projectiles via GMP is 43.33% more dmg total
midnight phoenix
Where u have infinite dps
distant scarab
You are approaching this backwatds
midnight phoenix
U are killing the boss with ur first 4 projectiles anyway
distant scarab
Im just addressing the discussion on whether all my hits will land
midnight phoenix
Im saying if the boss is alive for all 10 proj
U may well miss some
And ur counter argument is well its gonna be dead before they all land
distant scarab
And I think based on:
A: you would use barrage support specifically for bossing
B: Such a build is gonna aim to get as close to instaphase as it can
C: Such a build definitely uses point blank
Then its very reasonable to assume all hits land
patent canyon
that depends on boss
you cant get close to aul to land all proj
and bosses such as shaper doesnt matter
even standing half screen away makes barrage miss some projs
distant scarab
Its gonna depend on uber exiles, which we have almost 0 info on
Also keep in mind this applies to totems too
And totems wont be half a screen away and benefit the same way
So having barrage support on your totem ranged 6L may be extremely clutch to instagib bosses
silver kettle
ooh gosh, on that note I hope they rework or nerf the hell out of point blank
it's so annoying that it's kinda mandatory on bow builds
patent canyon
its mandatory because it has literally 0 downsides
its like do you want fuck tons of extra damage for 1 point
yes???!!!
silver kettle
exactly
native sonnet
they just need to lower its dmg at max range, maybe bring back the old PB 0 dmg at max range so u're giving up offscreening for the dmg boost
midnight phoenix
Ye point blank sucks as a node
Because damage relative to trash is so high
The only time its interesting is for stuff like molten strike where u have to travel for it
So there is a build decision
Otherwise its infinite free damage for 0 brain
native sonnet
move it to near EO? hmmm
distant scarab
Huh. I wonder how the Plus supports work with their normal versions
Can we put GMP and GMP+ on the same 6L? :3
spice cipher
doubt
eager charm
it depends on if they count as their base version
wet harbor
multistrike +, stand still longer! 
lucid stone
Do plus support gems stack with the normal variants?
Can I use GMP with GMP+
Oh wait nvm someone else already asked
copper kernel
wild arch
If both GMP stack then poison will be even more ridiculous than it already is
midnight phoenix
the second gmp probably isnt worth it anyway
for something like split arrow u would have 1+8+3+5=17 projectiles before using regular gmp
gmp gives u 24% more projectiles but 10% greater total attack time
that is much worse than most support gems and it locks u in place for longer as well
something that hasnt clicked with the army of pob warriors making poison builds
is that new barrage caps out at when u want more projectiles rly quickly
more proj is always a damage increase
but its very quickly not worth the investment
wild arch
I'm sure you can afford to stand for an extra 0.5 seconds when hitting a boss and then continue dodging
midnight phoenix
its not about the time really
it is that the projectiles themselves dont add very much dps
like would u use a support gem that does 12% more dmg
wild arch
Not to split arrow maybe
midnight phoenix
cos thats the second gmp in my example
its worse on something like power siphon
midnight phoenix
i dont think anybody is gonna set the world on fire with poison puncture lul
if u want to use a skill like that use frenzy
in either case tho, the second gmp is 44% more projectiles for 13% more attack time
again that's not a good support gem
it would be the 7th or 8th support link on most builds
wild arch
What about setting the servers on fire with spell cascade plus firestorm
Holy shit wait a minute
People are too blinded by barrage
Caustic arrow and soon split arrow can shotgun without it
midnight phoenix
we'll see what the patch notes look like
wild arch
Patchnoteswhen
pearl wind
No love for channelling from the looks of it 😦 Really was hoping CwC or Infused would get a Support+
autumn locust
less duration+ pog
wild arch
I'm just hoping for some poison plus gems
pearl wind
In that case I'll go back to shoe-horning my dream item into the game
autumn locust
1.25 aps coc weapon seems kinda hard to reach trigger cap
pearl wind
It's made with Blitz Charges in mind
autumn locust
o
pearl wind
It was almost exclusively built with that in mind
The CoC is really just there for utility so it's not a one-trick pony item, you can pair it with spark or something to juice up the coverage of Chain Hooks occasionally frustrating shockwave
I'm also still holding out hope for a threshold jewel that adds a 1/3rd backwards shockwave to chain hook
Basically, I love chain hook
And every day that passes where we don't have a spider web thwip thwip chain hook mtx is a day of injustice
pearl wind
2H Axe, so too slow to realistically use without Blitz charges and high Rage which then off-set the very high base crit chance
Making it a fleshripper base may even have been better, but not sure anybody wants unique maraketh weapons
wild arch
Manastorm firestorm?
dusty umbra
CoC on Axe is fine given cospris can reach 12-14 aps depends on skill ur cocin
hollow osprey
How can you CoC with such low attack speed
Oh wait I thought you were using the skill of the gauntlets
low kindle
Can't wait to fight an amalgam of eater of souls, cursed king, chimera, Uber atziri and cortex
patent canyon
what happened to those?
barren crescent
Imagine if some madlad farms uberhillock amalgam
slender temple
Oni goroshi loot explosion ? I wonder if the drops include the boss specific drops
distant scarab
3 transmutes, 1 Alt, 1 Alch, and a T3 map drop
wild arch
At how much mana could manastorm be considered worth it? 🤔
violet nymph
Any more than 4k mana seems excessive on your investment when you can invest in crit (which if you go for max mana stacking you cant cuz not enough points)
At 4k mana its 1k worth of flat damage
wild arch
Wait a minute
It says it gives the damage on spell cast
But it doesn't specifically say it's spell damage
violet nymph
Also note, the more you invest in the mana the more a single aura will hurt your dps output
Yeah
wild arch
Mana stacking power siphon barrage?
violet nymph
You can use it on something like your movement skill to activate
Blade vortex using unleash works wonders as well
Cuz you only need a small bit of mana and dont cast super often to worry about it
Also blade vortex LOVES damage
rich orbit
New name for PLUS gems? 😄
upper furnace
Assuming that triggered spells count as "When you Cast a Spell" then the play would be to use any item that automatically casts a spell reliably (Lightpoacher >.>) and then play literally any build that benefits from flat lightning damage.
small mirage
i hope the "+" was a placeholder term
wild arch
@upper furnace Triggered spells count as triggers
royal gale
did someone from 2005 make those gem names?
upper furnace
So you would need to lean into any instant-cast spell instead. Steelskin and Molten Shell come to mind. Both have a cooldown that is four seconds or less.
wild arch
Yeah that could work