what did Skeletons/Zombies do wrong
#1┃mirage-league
lament zodiac
languid path
because hoag has a physical component built into the gem itself
skeleton and zombies do physical dmg yes
snow cairn
hoag gets more than just "spell, minion" because it's a herald
snow cairn
what's the physical component of hoag?
languid path
it has physical conversion to chaos
lament zodiac
It gains flat physical damage per vitulance
languid path
and flat phys
snow cairn
that's the minion though
lament zodiac
but the same could be argued that zombies do flat physical damage
snow cairn
you only gain poison chance iirc
languid path
sure, I'm talking about the gem
deft girder
What gem would be the best for poison stacking with dagger? Agony build.
lament zodiac
Honestly its just bs
languid path
they don';t have to be mutually exclusive
fallen pewter
Nothing on the Skeleton stats mentions physical however.
Maybe eventually they'll update though
lament zodiac
Otherwise Dominating strike should have aura tag
proven wadi
Poison can be applied with phys damage therefore hoag phys spell gem
snow cairn
what stats? 😄
lament zodiac
because the rares give auras
livid apex
Ascendant apparently unchanged outside assassin/necro
lament zodiac
@livid apex not true
livid apex
did they shit on sabo too
fallen pewter
Sabo got fucked too lol
livid apex
r i p
lament zodiac
But mines got a huge buff so
proven wadi
Only in Regen though
lament zodiac
I doubt its that bad tbh
snow cairn
why would they leave ascendant sabo alone 😄
fallen pewter
Which is the only thing that mattered
lament zodiac
They added so many way to not die to all the other ascendancies
snow cairn
aoe pen and blind are kind of meh
patent canyon
to be completely honest 20% regen was bs
wet plaza
It's just base leech anyone could get as caster or melee
snow cairn
not that conditional
livid apex
so here's the question
snow cairn
was pretty easy to cap it
livid apex
how do you sustain MoM as a caster
fallen pewter
You have to be spamming to get it.
patent canyon
you could just facetank most of things by spamming mines
wet plaza
Capping it meant standing still
fallen pewter
Mana flasks, new mana nodes. Maybe Clarity doesn't suck.
wet plaza
Other builds also leech 20% when standing still
timid geyser
I mean honestly I haven't used mana leech for a spell build in a long time.
livid apex
thoughts on guardian changes?
lament zodiac
guardian is amazing
its just sad despite being a mazing
its probably still the 3rd best minion ascendancy
snow cairn
wait what's unnerve?
lament zodiac
no idea
timid geyser
Intimidate for spells is a common guess.
lament zodiac
Scion guardian/necro is gonna be insane aura support
lament zodiac
with cwdt spirit offering and the guardian % regen every 5 seconds
its gonna be the never die aura support
fallen pewter
It's not that huge for regen. But it's very convenient for smaller pool EB.
livid apex
is it an entire ascendancy node worth of convenient?
snow cairn
i mean inquis has 200 es per second
lament zodiac
I like how they said its great for leveling .... but its no accessable till 2nd lab?
timid geyser
It is just more on top of the node.
fallen pewter
Lol
timid geyser
You don't just take it for 40 regen
fallen pewter
Yeah, Inquis gets a perm 200 ES per second
lament zodiac
40 es per second by 2nd lab is not leveling :/
lament zodiac
oh its not behind another node anymore
livid apex
new vile bastion
snow cairn
occultist can grab it first lab
livid apex
there used to be 250 flat ES from the asc, there is none anymore
they cut it down to only vile bastion and then nerfed vile bastion
fallen pewter
A while back it was 4 points. But not since then
livid apex
I guess the new ES recuperation could be alright with the anti-stun property
livid apex
even if you exhaust your ES pool, it'll be right back in a jiffy
snow cairn
they put it on the passive tree instead
lament zodiac
I wanna see an Occu ascendancy that just gives Zealots Oath without losing regen to your hp
just have your regen apply to both hp and es cos fuck it.
livid apex
I had a thought on the HP/ES thing
snow cairn
hybrid ascendancy is supposed to be trickster
plain field
anyone knows if ggg got around to fixing the Dom Blow issue? It kept crashing the client at launch on legion, never got mentioned in any patch for a fix
lament zodiac
@plain field it was to do with ancestral call I think
livid apex
so if you have 4K health and 2K ES, you regen as though you had 6K ES
lament zodiac
pretty sure it was fixed
plain field
dont recall if I had it linked with AC but can check, didn't delete the char
lament zodiac
It was basically if you linked Anscestral Call to anything (most people were doing it with dom blow) you dced
timid geyser
I'd say test it now
lament zodiac
I watched some dude on twitch playing the super hardcore gimp private league with Dom Blow and he wasn't dcing
I imagine it works now
It definately was doing at the start though I remember I was running Dom Blow :/
Is anyone actually gonna make a Guardian summoner?
timid geyser
Probably a third of HC if HoAG isn't nerfed
plain field
Can't check if I had AC or not, I kinda converted that char to do random tests.. I might have been using AC
mental apex
I'm doing witch dominating blow
lament zodiac
I imagine you were using AC or Melee splash with it and both of those had bugs at league start I think
mental apex
Witch>guardian
timid geyser
That's pretty debatable for HC.
lament zodiac
Guardian + HoAg is probably better than witch tbh
timid geyser
Yeah
lament zodiac
I think HoAg super benefits from Grave Pact also (too many Grave Notables now)
and Templar is right next to it
fallen pewter
I changed my pathing on Skele build to make that more efficient to grab.
lament zodiac
Tehee
fallen pewter
The accuracy is overkill, but nice still lol
snow cairn
how is it overkill? might not need precision if you grab enough on the tree
plain field
In my notes I wrote that I tried to strip down the issue and just Dom Blow + Herald of Purity alone without supports made the game crash
fallen pewter
You don't need Precision anyways
mental apex
I should be able to get 1mill dps per each herald of purity minion this league
Will be nice
fallen pewter
With a basic minion tree and the new accuracy values you end up being at ~97% hit chance.
Without that one
Add in Grave Pact and you're at 100%
No Precision.
mental apex
Lvl21 precision gave me like 5000 dps. Not worth
teal axle
ugh I dont feel like changing around my tree for golems yet
snow cairn
will golems be that different?
lament zodiac
The accuracy is annoying if you are doing spectres and just want damage
fallen pewter
My tentative 3.8 Skele tree is so different from 3.7 lol. https://i.imgur.com/c1Mx0Di.png
coral dragon
how to play summoner ? isnt slow play style and not very good on low tier mapping ?
fallen pewter
I doubt accuracy will be a problem at all for Spectres.
snow cairn
summoner isn't slow right now
fallen pewter
It's much faster than before.
snow cairn
unless you play zombies
lament zodiac
@fallen pewter thats my point I don't want the accuracy if I am playing spectres but its on all the damn damage nodes xD
snow cairn
people don't invest in minion speed
fallen pewter
Oh
snow cairn
and wonder why their minions are slow
fallen pewter
It's just free accuracy mostly. Not really contributing to the value of the nodes.
coral dragon
i mean used to play edc or cyclone pretty sure it can’t really be faster than that
fallen pewter
They're all nodes you want to take anyways, accuracy or no accuracy
lament zodiac
I feel like Summoner might be winning a few races this league
snow cairn
perfect agony minions 😮
snow cairn
RT?
lament zodiac
you have some serious pathing issues
the chaos life ring almost meets spiritual command and grave pact almost meets templar
both have like 1-2 points between them but you path all the way round
mental apex
Yeah, I changed the pathing as I said, I'm not at home rn so I can't send my updated tree
lament zodiac
also you don't take +2 minion gems ascendancy
for unknown reasons
which honestly... is insane
mental apex
I have the +2 🤔
lament zodiac
tell that to your picture
mental apex
Ehx scuffed tree 😭
fallen pewter
Lol
snow cairn
+2 is the left one
timid geyser
Stuff like RVA and Frost sentinals are Pretty decent clear speed honestly. Minus the fact EDC was amazing for legion, clear speed can be pretty comparable if not better for spectres.
lament zodiac
If you aren't taking the +2 minion gem as a necromancer
you honestly should be playing guardian imo
I think summoner benefits from the fact you don't even have to participate
you can just run through entire levels looking at the minimap
you don't really need more than a tabula in most cases
even thats a luxuary tbh
snow cairn
soulwrest and you only need bubonic
lament zodiac
or DDuo
timid geyser
Ehh. depending on what you are playing you really need that tabula to be competitive.
lament zodiac
To some extent yeah
snow cairn
duo wants worm flasks
lament zodiac
but for a shitt act 1 to 10 race
you don't need that tabula
you can get to maps without more than a 4 link
without having any issues
timid geyser
Yeah, but act 1 to 10 you are always going to be slower than OOS (assuming no nerfs)
snow cairn
highly doubt campaign race will be a minion build
lament zodiac
I am ready to see it! 😛
sly tusk
So we're getting the patch notes & real JSON in like 5 hours or so?
lament zodiac
Will we get real JSON?
languid path
no patch, tree data is released today
snow cairn
patch and tree
sly tusk
Patch and tree are always released together
snow cairn
lament zodiac
Do we get gems today I can't remember?
sly tusk
Ye
snow cairn
gems tomorrow
lament zodiac
Probably sad I prefer gems to patch notes 😦
sly tusk
Today is the day the poeskilltree guy sees a bajillion downloads because GGG is bogarting openarl
craggy kernel
yeah, patch notes tonight!
craggy kernel
@lament zodiac on your mention of dropping the minion damages nodes, I don't want to because I still want to do some damage myself. The goal of the build is to be hybrid, and still down some enemies.
sly tusk
It will come out when the balance manifesto hits 24 hours ago on Reddit, that's how I typically keep track
lament zodiac
@craggy kernel You don't have to do anything you don't want to sir 😮
sly tusk
But that would be suboptimal!
lament zodiac
I would suggest other builds if yo uwant to be a hybrid though
snow cairn
@craggy kernel try dancing duo with facebreakers 😄
sly tusk
How can you call yourself a true PoE player when you're suboptimal!
lament zodiac
the problem with your build isn't that its a hybrid its that its a tri-brid
sly tusk
This dark path will lead you down the route of going animate weapon
lament zodiac
you are trying to be useful yourself and also have two different scaling minions be useful
sly tusk
Y tho
snow cairn
hipster
sly tusk
Why phantasms, they're kind of doodie
lament zodiac
Indeed thats what I told him to drop 😄
snow cairn
soulwrest works fine
lament zodiac
Soulwrest doesn't work with scourge and venomous gyre
teal axle
soulwrest can do all content just fine in my experience and will be even easier with the desecrate changes
fallen pewter
Phantasms require actually support. AKA Soulwrest.
Without Soulwrest they're bad.
Cuz on-kill effects.
Also doubling your Phantasm cap is a moderately strong buff to their overall DPS 👀
sly tusk
Honestly forgot about soul wrest, was thinking he was just thinking he was using the summon on kill
torpid sonnet
I just realised the changes to mana leech completely dumpster bitterdream
It used to be decent for leveling but now it will have massive mana issues
torpid sonnet
it was a good leveling item before
patent canyon
there were better options for leveling either way
lament zodiac
I wouldn't run phantasms without soulwrest outside of Frost Sentinel spectres
sly tusk
Bitterdream is great! You can vendor 5 of them for 6 wisdom scrolls
lament zodiac
and frost sentinel spectres make it so you cant see shit
lapis topaz
leveling is gonna be ez pz wit hthe new mana flasks
rough flax
How long to patch notes and pob
fallen pewter
If we're lucky
rough flax
Well ill be sleeping anyway lul
timid geyser
NZ is in a were alternate time dimension so we don't really know 
rough flax
Like most of eu
rough flax
What if they are time traveling and just copy patch files from future
rough flax
Why so long i though ill check this in bus
lament zodiac
I think its a bit earlier to be honest
its usually before I go to bed and thats in like 2 ish hours
well maybe 3 ish hours
either that or I am lying to myself and I stay up way too late every night waiting for the new news
oh wow... nvm :/
craggy kernel
@lament zodiac noted for the phantasms. I'll probably find something else to replace it.
(honestly, I never reach 6 links, so I'll simply drop it)
thanks for the feedback
lament zodiac
no worries 🙂 I am sure the build will do good and be very fun with the new skills
craggy kernel
it will probably get slammed a couple of times, with that crappy evasion 😄
lament zodiac
It wouldn't be poe if you didn't die occasionally in one hit feeling confused as to how it happened
rough flax
so they said 9 hours but it can be earlier right :5head:
indigo sapphire
big oof on 2am EST notes
tough vigil
I Feel like no matter what end up in the patch notes GGG can't win. If they make it so towers are essentials people will complain, if they make it so towers are useless people will complain.
patent canyon
it is said to be not a must with good builds
coarse moon
just depends on how good of builds they mean
fallen pewter
Seems mostly to be about builds with large AoE coverage in one way or another with enough damage to deal with rares that have between 2.5-10x normal life.
queen gulch
Hopefully it'll be so that high dps builds need the more utility-oriented towers while the more defensive/utility-based builds will need the towers focusing on damage.
light hatch
craggy kernel
I don't remember where, but I was reading that the mobs will have really good defenses against a type of thing. As in "it's a cold resisting mob" is "these mobs have 95% cold res" or something like that.
fallen pewter
Against towers
lament zodiac
2 enchantment unique helmet xD
west fiber
but all the res reduction lol
midnight kraken
"Can have 2nd enchantment mod", will the notable from the tree on it count as an enchant?
west fiber
I'd guess 1 oil and 1 lab
patent canyon
otherwise vendor trash
west fiber
otherwise how would labby runs work 🤔 replacing the oldest one 
midnight kraken
It's most propably 1 lab 1 oil because how are we going to choose which enchant from lab will get removed when we try to add 3rd one?
patent canyon
lab rework? 👀
coarse moon
wait, does that mean you could potentially double anoint/double enchant that helm?
craggy kernel
Damn, some of the new notables are quite sexy.
lament zodiac
Lab rework.... you don't get to pick your ascendancy you roll a random one per lab!
GRINDING CHARACTER GAMES
midnight kraken
What are the lab enchants from uber that looks like shit but when you consider them doubled they are actually funny
except +1 secondary TS projectiles lol
lament zodiac
Only helmet though 😦
kindred dagger
dont know about this help, feels noob trap
lament zodiac
50% chance to summon 1 extra skeleton!
modern radish
psy whats that random ascendancy thing im scared
kindred dagger
unless really specifi build it seems trash
the idea of double enchant still is interesting just the helpt feels bad
lament zodiac
The base seems awful
You basically lose your helmet for a enchantment
and no one wants that shit
snow cairn
i wonder how it chooses which enchantment it rolls over
modern radish
ohhh
lament zodiac
I suppose
Most auras supports use it though
cos its cheap and does the job and gives freeze immunity
rotund sky
Seems really useful for getting -110 resists
west fiber
So
west fiber
There are 3 versions that SET your res of this helmet
So if you are in desperate need of specific res, here is your option
midnight kraken
OH
west fiber
We need GGG to confirm if we can choose between the enchantments
midnight kraken
I'm starting as necro dominating blow, +2 rare sentinels, a dream wtf
compact junco
you can also get divine flesh + talisman to ignore 2 resists completely with that helmet
midnight kraken
3 rare mobs that gives aura lol
lament zodiac
That do nothing in staged boss fights 😦
compact junco
(if you would want to for some reason)
snow cairn
you need 135 to cap a resist and you're losing 100+ from the other resists so you're not really gaining that much
also talisman doesn't work on dots iirc
compact junco
and you can go divine flesh + talisman + helmet + chieftain + double chaos res annoint to almost ignore all resistances :d
rotund sky
I could see myself using this, the capped resist and double enchantment could work, no need to use + all resists, and can use two-stone rings pretty well
compact junco
yeah, but you can ignore like lightning, almost nothing does lightning dot
tough vigil
New helmet seems weird is it good? It is bad?
kindred dagger
In the end this helmet juste give you some all attributes and ~35% res thats pretty low as it come with 0 bonus of any sort only for a double enchant but the more im thinking but for helmet there isnt much dps bonus unless its a unique ?
General the more i can see as buff are those enemyes have - Xres or so
compact junco
its bad, but double enchants will be fun
snow cairn
i wonder if you can double anoint
midnight kraken
18% flicker strike dmg per frenzy charge
tough vigil
Double enchant so you can get 2 enchants you don't need 
midnight kraken
+4 winter orb stages
dusty umbra
compact junco
+2 bladestorms pog
dusty umbra
Ultimate ele hit helmet coming up? 
snow cairn
corrupt has a separate section, doesn't interact with enchants
kindred dagger
i honestly wouldnt count on odd to have real double enchant especialy yhe same i think the better possibility is like they shown, one enchant + one onoint
tough vigil
Playing Cyclone
"Can i have a cyclone related enchant pls"
Gives me smite enchant
snow cairn
it would specify if it was just 1 enchant 1 anoint imo
rotund sky
Yeah, i think one enchant one anoint is the likely outcome
kindred dagger
Im not saying you cant double enchant
midnight kraken
Spectral shield throw fires 10 more shards lul, these stars
kindred dagger
Im saying that its very like VERYYYYYY unlikely you'll get your 2 enchant that you want consider as having one enchant is allready a huge pain
midnight kraken
60% temporal chains curse effect for ultimate HH buffs duration?
patent canyon
it has a cap
midnight kraken
Consider getting 2 exact enchants you want or at least these that will boost your build somewhat AND dropping a mirror
I vote that first thing is more likely to happen
kindred dagger
I think the should find a way for helmet to have a bit more chance to have what you want like for exemple lab can only roll 100 enchant (i think there is allready more than 200 actualy) and each gem socketed in the helmet when you socket force this enchant specificaly to be in the list
that could help a bit
midnight kraken
More like
silver kettle
This helmet is clearly targeted at anointing not lab enchanting
tidal ruin
anointments go in the enchant slot?
silver kettle
You're not even going to want double lab enchants on it
The anointment only passives are way better than most lab enchants
patent canyon
0.00000000001% chance of usable combination is cool
silver kettle
Well the problem is once you have one lab enchant there isn't often going to be a second one that's actually interesting right?
midnight kraken
Volatile dead using +2 corpses
silver kettle
Most skills only have one good enchant
And the other two are super generic and mediocre
patent canyon
true
unless you go for attack based
main skill + something like bloodrage enchant
but its gonna be single such helm in entire server if even 1 at all
sounds very niche and likely vendor trash unique
silver kettle
Idk I think most of the time you'll just double anoint it
midnight kraken
Unless you actually get 2 powerfull enchants that will get nerfed in next seasons and you'll be rich on standard
silver kettle
And given the strength of the anoint only passives, that seems enough to make it good
patent canyon
but it competes with so much
wide totem
Is it just me or is the new helm crap?
patent canyon
devotos, staronja, minion stuff, essence helm, -res helm
midnight kraken
Oh wait
midnight kraken
Considering standard and changes
What if someone has a notable on amulet on standard and the notable is changed/removed from the game in one of the seasons
patent canyon
changed together with node
silver kettle
Hmm. Anyone know whether the node ID gets reassigned if a node is removed? I'm guessing yes
But if it doesn't then that could indeed create weird situations with anointing
eager terrace
how so
patent canyon
if its removed entirely then i assume it becomes legacy item
that has name of node but does nothing
eager terrace
oh you mean in future notable changes
normal kraken
not sure if we will be able to anoint it twice
they said that with uniques and ammy a character would be able to have 5 passives on gear
eager terrace
yeah I don't think you can anoint it twice
but I'm curious if you can still put 2 enchants on it if you have it anointed
they look like they're in the same category
normal kraken
oh nvm
You can have two Labyrinth enchantments, two Anointing ones or a combination of Labyrinth enchantment + Anointing enchantment. You can't get the same enchantment twice though.
eager terrace
neat
craggy kernel
Oh, you can right click map tabs in their list to send them to the beginning
when did they implemented that?
dusty umbra
eager terrace
you can right click any tab that way
wide totem
Damn
normal kraken
like 3.5 I think
craggy kernel
sorry, tabs yeah
wide totem
So what is the dream combo?
craggy kernel
"map tabs" was a brain fart
eager terrace
I'm guessing most people will do 1 enchant 1 anoint
dusty umbra
Do we know if anoint's can hit any notables?
eager terrace
it seems like there are enough combinations
it'll take a while before we know if any are missing
torpid sonnet
iirc there are more anointment combinations than notables currently, even counting the 13 hidden ones
eager terrace
I don't recall how many notables there are
but I do recall hearing that order does not change the result
dusty umbra
Disembowlening or Corruption notable on ointments sound nice for chaos builds
eager terrace
like R/B/B is the same result as B/R/B
snow cairn
there's like 350 or something
i think the formula is 12 multichoose 3
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=12+multichoose+3 @eager terrace
silver kettle
Chris confirmed that was it a while ago
eager terrace
I just don't recall the exact number of notables
silver kettle
Presumably that means there are 351 notables on the 3.8 passive tree
eager terrace
it would be odd to leave only a handful out
snow cairn
did he confirm no repeats?
eager terrace
so yeah probably a safe assumption
silver kettle
He didn't
snow cairn
but yeah, would be weird that they add a bunch of hidden passives
silver kettle
But given that they could have an arbitrary number of anointment-only passives
snow cairn
without rounding out that number
eager terrace
all I remember about the formula being confirmed was order didn't matter
silver kettle
It would make sense to add a number that made this neat
normal kraken
you can get +100 to an attribute with that helmet
more if you don't already allocate the % passives
tidal frost
You also can with a real helmet
worldly scaffold
didnt like, most of the annointment onlies leak
dusty umbra
@normal kraken good point, might be good attribute stacking helm
eager terrace
yeah I mean, rare helmets can have raw stats
snow cairn
except black sun crest or w/e it's called is better isn't it?
worldly scaffold
even if its not better
everyone will prefer 55 attri instead of 85 attri if it comes with stuff like 300 es or +120 life
and if you are stacking dex you're gonna go fractal thoughts anyway
each combination of 3 oils (no matter the order) will result in a new notable das all
we have like, 15 confirmed? annointment only notables
and current tree has 334
that would... kinda suck to be honest
eager terrace
it sounds like we are going up in notables
+13 anointment-only
alchemist alone is creating like +3 notables
eager terrace
I'm guessing like was mentioned
worldly scaffold
unless
normal kraken
if the tree we have has the correct positions for the anoint notables some of them will be accessible with intuitive leap
fallen pewter
Curse isn't very strong. If it's a map modded curse the curse gets instantly reapplied.
silver kettle
I believe it was mentioned in Baeclast that they don't appear unless you have the right anointment @normal kraken
worldly scaffold
if you grab a flask with 5 uses or so
normal kraken
oh I see
fallen pewter
The ailment one is good just as a generic cluster too.
worldly scaffold
you are pretty much safe from freeze/bleed
fallen pewter
Well, not bleed.
Elemental ailment only
But yeah between that and your life flask
silver kettle
Can always slap staunching on the mana flask itself
worldly scaffold
oh
fallen pewter
True
silver kettle
Though warding probably better
fallen pewter
Mhm
worldly scaffold
btw hi patchumz hi viper, long time no see
warding with persistence + remove random ailment sounds like enough of an encouragement to make me run it on spellcasters
and I think that was their goal, wasnt it
fallen pewter
Glad we have this terribly unfortunate tree leak to keep us occupied tbh lol.
I wish they included hybrid flasks in this mana rework.
glad narwhal
worldly scaffold
I am really hyped to try out an attribute stacking build
silver kettle
Hybrid flasks need some fucking help
worldly scaffold
with Crown of Eyes and Tranquility
dusty umbra
or both with new helm
eager terrace
repetition is allowed
silver kettle
@glad narwhal wrong settings. Repetition allowed, order not important. 364 is the correct number
Confirmed by Chris
glad narwhal
Isn't that what I linked
eager terrace
it's backwards
silver kettle
You linked the opposite
glad narwhal
oh oops
eager terrace
should be 364
eager terrace
13
glad narwhal
13
fallen pewter
I like that they shook up the pathing for most builds in the int area though. Have to do some new shit.
eager terrace
I'm definitely interested in seeing if any other mana notables changed
I like the new arcane capacitor node
snow cairn
like how they went crazy with the bottom half last patch
worldly scaffold
right now we have 334 notables afaik? and +13 from annointment gives us 347
thats 17 new notables
4 of these are from the Alchemist Cluster
1 of these is the Golem notable
fallen pewter
Alchemist is dead
snow cairn
question about the new helm, 52% reduced is different from -52% right?
eager terrace
but yeah I suspect a grip of new notables
eager terrace
probably split between flasks / mana / DoT
snow cairn
ok that's gross
eager terrace
maybe minion
worldly scaffold
not really
fallen pewter
They destroyed Alchemist completely and replaced it with ~3 other flask clusters.
worldly scaffold
with that helmet you need 420 overall resistances
and normally you need 405
not that different
worldly scaffold
huh?
eager terrace
well it says they split alchemist into 4
I just wonder if that wheel contains a new wheel entirely
or if it is space being used to fit everything else
fallen pewter
Well, 2 of the "new" clusters are the same ones as have always been there in the bottom area
Just with some new stats
2 brand new ones up top
eager terrace
oh okay so a couple existing notables also changed
snow cairn
the leaked tree messed up pictures are rather confusing
fallen pewter
Hah, yeah
eager terrace
yeah at least capacitor was by a power charge
worldly scaffold
just wait for tree info
fallen pewter
My tree looks weird with all the strength stuff being green.
dusty umbra
Quick question in regards to poisons , poisons inflict damage X% faster is essentially X% dps increase right?
fallen pewter
Mhm
dusty umbra
Well kiiiind of?
snow cairn
more damage as long as you keep applying it
if you just hit it once it's the same damage but double dps
snow cairn
yes they're additive
eager terrace
yeah I think it just stacks with itself
snow cairn
unless it's more
glad narwhal
we can call it additive multiplier
snow cairn
a separate multiplier
dusty umbra
Hmm hunters gambit or Dirty tehnques are two other decent notables that you usually wouldn't pick then
worldly scaffold
additive multiplier so quite literally
dusty umbra
to get on ointment
worldly scaffold
a multiplier
glad narwhal
> ointment
snow cairn
anoint oil
dusty umbra
Hunters gambit then looks really good if i dont have to get small nodes around it 
eager terrace
essential
dusty umbra
10% faster and 10% chaos dmg over time multi
compact junco
well x faster on poison is multiplier only until you cap your poisons right
and after that it doesnt matter
glad narwhal
I'm gonna call it lube
dusty umbra
Just making a list of decent poison notables that are in 10%+ dps territory
dusty umbra
^
snow cairn
you can cap if you're not assassin
compact junco
the maximum amount of poisons you can have on enemy based on your AS and duration
midnight kraken
You go SKKRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRA SKRRRRRRRRA SKRRRRRRRRA and here you go, shit loads of poison stacks lul
worldly scaffold
oh that
I thought you were refering to something like an imaginary 10 poison cap or whatever
midnight kraken
HH approved
worldly scaffold
I heard some people talking about poison having a cap of 300 (probably because of old emberwake)
so noe im cautious when I hear this stuff lol
snow cairn
could've been a "realistic cap" or something
since you can't just sit there and dps for a long time
compact junco
lets say it lowers the ramp up time until you start doing your maximum realistic dps, i guess that is pretty accurate
snow cairn
wait, assassin does cap
midnight phoenix
Assassin does not cap, the crit u get caps
U can still have 99999999 poisons if u have some way to apply them
snow cairn
poison duration is capped based on how fast yo ucan attatck in 4 seconds
compact junco
assassin poisons cap as well, as its for # of poisons applied recently
worldly scaffold
yeah but thats still not a cap imo
midnight phoenix
If u attack fast enough u can have as many poisons as u want
compact junco
well idk how else to call it :d
eager terrace
there's a practical limit, but I don't think a hard cap
snow cairn
practical is a good word
midnight phoenix
If theres a game imposed hard cap i dont think ive ever hit it
dusty umbra
INT
midnight phoenix
And ive certainly made the game lag cos of poison stacks before
eager terrace
it would be overflow technically yeah
compact junco
i think you can safely assume you would crash your client before you will be able to apply 2B poisons on something :d
fallen pewter
You're not my dad, you can't tell me what I can't do!
midnight phoenix
Im really not looking forward to poison being meta again, if it turns out to be good
Ppl make the most heinously bad pobs
fallen pewter
I'm looking forward to a non-abusive non-annoying poison meta.
dusty umbra
Theres so much poison multi around now
midnight phoenix
And post them here going look guys 1 zillion dmg with 20 second poisons
compact junco
3 minute poison ez 20M shaper dps what are you talking about
midnight phoenix
Im twitching just thinking about it
fallen pewter
2.6 poison was annoying af. And stupid broken.
This looks much less tedious
And easier PoB
compact junco
and its not only poison meta, its assassin poison meta with noxious strike on tree :p
dusty umbra
New tree + 2x wasp nest (no other gear or anything) , + 7L gems = 100k/poison for viper strike
midnight phoenix
It wont scale as well as 2.6 poison thats for sure
dusty umbra
Thats with half of nodes not working in pob
compact junco
you dont really need other gear other than weapons for poison anyway tbh. circles will be sweet tho
dusty umbra
Other gear (phys + atks?) and crit multi
since poison will scale decently of both too
fallen pewter
I'm glad I'm not planning poison to start. Would be horrible to plan with broken PoB and this leaked tree data.
dusty umbra
62.5% poison dot multi and 40-60 phys to atks for poison builds from abysus
snow cairn
also need to see numbers on new poison skills
midnight phoenix
Uh yeah no thanks
dusty umbra
^
snow cairn
since molten strike is dead
compact junco
abysuss on dot build sounds like suicide :d
fallen pewter
Fixing minion accuracy to new 3.8 value and the few broken things is way easier than dealing with poison on 3.8 tree, hah.
dusty umbra
Why?
midnight phoenix
If im going to kill myself every map with assassin abyssus im going to pick a build that doesnt take time to kill mobs ty
dusty umbra
leech issues?
compact junco
monsters actually hit you on poison builds
midnight phoenix
Its very simple
Mobs take time to die if u are dot
During that time they hit u
And u die
Cos u have an abyssus on
fallen pewter
Assassin only has 1 defensive node.
snow cairn
although the new poison skills are ranged
dusty umbra
have we forgotten bane?
fallen pewter
And nothing nearby helps on the tree
snow cairn
assassin goes acro
compact junco
its fine for defense, but you still will get hit quite a lot. abyssus builds usually rely on one shotting everything to not die
compact junco
or just rare - res helmet :d
midnight phoenix
So the thing with basically every poison build
normal kraken
it is weird that there's no elusive passives on the tree
midnight phoenix
Is u dont care much about pob dps
normal kraken
maybe in 3.9, like impale
fallen pewter
Probably didn't want to break Elusive.
midnight phoenix
What u care about is not dying and not having to stack very much duration
If u can make a workable build that does those things ur usually fine
fallen pewter
If they put Elusive stuff on the tree it would quickly get out of hand I think.
dusty umbra
Really need to see how much they change gems and how much proj speed we need for decent aoe on gyre
fallen pewter
I imagine it won't be much
compact junco
you can always just gemswap from gyre to cobra lash if it will be disappointing
fallen pewter
It'll likely be the other way around
dusty umbra
i guess dendobrate is going to be a must fr poison builds too, no life kind of sux on chest tho
dusty umbra
yeah saw that
fallen pewter
You might want that and so the lesser poison gem might be redundant.
dusty umbra
the ring that makes enemies affected by poison pop looks more interesting
forgot the name of it already
fallen pewter
I'm sad that new tree doesn't allow for perfect 12 skeleton summoning anymore.
3, 3, 3, 2 forever D:
Mmm, unless level 21, 22, 23, or 24 allows another one
compact junco
that poison shatter ring is not usedul for poison builds btw @dusty umbra
as its only with hits
fallen pewter
You need a hit to kill the mob, poison wouldn't shatter.
dusty umbra
rip then i guess , indeed would suck
midnight phoenix
Idk why ppl excited about shatter anyway
dusty umbra
i mean with gyre and some chain it shouldn't matter
midnight phoenix
This entire league was ppl ignoring shatter in order to socket brutality and squeeze 2% more dps
dusty umbra
this entire league nobody cared bout bleeds cus they didnt work on legion
fallen pewter
Well, they were also in the tanky life section of the tree. And still got sniped occasionally :P
compact junco
herald of ice pops on EO builds are nice, if EO was actually good for endgame
but outside of EO builds I cant think of many use cases
midnight phoenix
There are a couple of eo builds out there but i dont think any of them scale generic cold or ele
wide totem
What is EO?
fallen pewter
Elemental Overload
dusty umbra
are we also getting some new auras?
wide totem
Oh
fallen pewter
I believe the only one is the skitterbots.
compact junco
well, and all mines :p
tough vigil
I can't wait for patch notes tonight to know what build will be fun/viable with the new mechanic
compact junco
any good clear build with decent damage will be probably viable for blight
tough vigil
I really wanna do a necro but i feel like specters were mostly nerfed and it's gonna be akward learning it again, also worried about the speed since necro is a really slow ascendancy that hit hards so while the new gems will help i don't know if it will be enough
It all depends on the blight mechanic / tower numbers
fallen pewter
Necro is faster than ever
compact junco
you can usually just perma phase run or shield charge on necro so its not that slow and they added bunch of options for minion speed on both tree and gems
tough vigil
Yeah that's true
fallen pewter
Shield charge got a pretty hefty buff from last league too
And you can use it with wands (aka minion wands)
tough vigil
I really need to rethink necro as a whole after the changes ahah
silver kettle
it's impossible to evaluate necro until later today
we need all the gem change numbers and the new tree
fallen pewter
There's a lot of minion attack speed on the new tree too
lucid stone
Can you get fortify with shield charge?
fallen pewter
Yeah
tough vigil
Also there's a weird minion shield that is good for necro now that minions scale better with levels
The weird head shield
lucid stone
What if you have vigilant strike in a weapon swap? Does it remove fortify when you swap?
fallen pewter
I plan to ditch the Fortify gem though and just let a Kingmaker AG provide me with it.
Nah
You keep it
I think... at least
compact junco
i dont think you can beat victario shield @tough vigil
lucid stone
Does increased fortify effect also apply to allies with things like Kingmaker and The Vigil?
tough vigil
Dunno new gems opened some options tho
fallen pewter
I'm not sure.
lucid stone
And dread banner
tough vigil
Like if you use infernal legion support wouldn't the sun shield be good?
compact junco
foritfy effect usually refers specifically to you
(e.g x increased fortify effect on you etc)
fallen pewter
I don't personally think impale is worth it on minions. Without that extra boost from the strength tree nodes.
tough vigil
Dunno it's name but the one from twilight temple
midnight phoenix
Somebody pointed out to me the other day that kingmaker got nerfed
The radius is pretty small now
lucid stone
Vix Lunaris?
compact junco
it was nerfed quite a while ago
lucid stone
Invictus Solaris?
tough vigil
This one
lucid stone
Magna Eclipsus?
compact junco
its useful with only like melee minions
tough vigil
Invictus Solaris
midnight phoenix
Ive only used it before the nerf
It was fine then
It looks short now from the ss i was linked
lucid stone
Wasnt the radius already tiny?
fallen pewter
Maybe I should go in game and check the radius. I probably have a Soul Taker somewhere in that fucking Standard stash.
tough vigil
Wouldn't infernal legion support be good with popcorn skeletons mace tho???
lucid stone
Maybe
tough vigil
Sorry i just realized they could actually be dying faster
lucid stone
Is it better than a damage link?
midnight phoenix
Im googling while typing ppl reckon it went from 50 to 30 radius
30 is rly short actually thats an ice nova with no aoe
compact junco
from screenshots i saw it looked like it was halved from the original one
compact junco
fallen pewter
Meat shield territory.
silver kettle
lens is just going to get used for -res with infernal legion right
tough vigil
Frenzied feeding vaal skeletons infernal legion with popcorn skeletons mace could be funny
silver kettle
I suppose if you can get heals from it that's gravy
yeah I suspect a fair few people will be doing something like that
depends on the degen on infernal legion though
tough vigil
It could also use a set up similar to vaal fireball too
silver kettle
if it's nice and fast I assume people will just want to do higher life minions instead
tough vigil
The permanent version
tidal frost
you acn also give them an actual shield to boost dmg
delicate acorn
alright, so
225% minion accuracy on 3.8 tree if leaks hold
165% without the new cluster
fallen pewter
I picked up 210% of it. And I'm overcapped by quite a bit for hit chance.
Under new accuracy values
delicate acorn
if accuracy calcs havent changed, then skellies now have pretty much 1k acc on the dot
delicate acorn
yeah, thats how i got the calc
fallen pewter
Yeah
delicate acorn
made a char at level 84 and just played with accuracy values on a piece of gear
fallen pewter
I have mine set to add 550 accuracy
fallen pewter
Easily hit capped for normal encounters basically.
delicate acorn
with all minion acc on tree, we need 1724 base to be fully hitcapped, or 1316 for non-evasive hitcap
276 flat acc
which, interestingly
is exactly what a level 6 precision grants
for only 59 mana :)
delicate acorn
...i was dividing the final number we needed by 2.25
fallen pewter
:D
delicate acorn
wait
fallen pewter
The last 15% on the tree isn't worth it to me anyways.
fallen pewter
It's how math works :D
delicate acorn
1040 is 1.0x. 100% increased is 2.0x. i get it now.
alright ok so our final accuracy value is 3.1x (because fuck that last node) our base accuracy, so we divide the final number we want by 3.1 to get the base accuracy we need
1250
well, 1251
so 111 additional accuracy
fallen pewter
And only if you really care about evasive enemies dodging once every blue moon.
delicate acorn
so basically
fallen pewter
Life is good.
delicate acorn
how much do i want that gem socket
delicate acorn
then again, we can drop the wheel by templar and run precision for like +5 skill points
fallen pewter
Could, but even without the accuracy in there it's a pretty decent valued wheel.
For DPS
delicate acorn
i guess
49% damage, 8% aps, and 5% double damage
do we want to go down there though
delicate acorn
just so im sure, are we talking skellies?
fallen pewter
Mhm
delicate acorn
mind if i see your 3.8 tree?
fallen pewter
Probably not explicitly worth the reroute... but I wanted the point for other things.
delicate acorn
if pastebins dont work a screenshot will suffice
fallen pewter
delicate acorn
ok, thats kinda what i expected
fallen pewter
Tentatively.
delicate acorn
i see we have similar taste in ascendancy points too
fallen pewter
:P
delicate acorn
MOM for defense?
fallen pewter
PoB's do work, but only if you properly changed your files, and didn't hack job the tree.lua in.
Yeah
wild arch
How hard would it be to sustain flasks for a chains of command guardian?
delicate acorn
not taking aligned spirits is...an interesting move
fallen pewter
I originally did
But it was just alright, and I had other things I wanted to look into. I specifically needed points to get the golem node. Which might be shit, but that depends on how good Carrion Golem is.
mental apex
which is aligned spirits?
fallen pewter
Minion damage and max mana, with reduced mana cost of minion skills.
mental apex
ah
fallen pewter
On the path to Scion from Witch left side.
mental apex
yee
delicate acorn
just above EE
mental apex
heres my tree
fallen pewter
That golem node is a lot of power however. So I figured I'd budget it and see where that takes us. 70% golem buff effect and +1 golems is pretty nice
fallen pewter
Same one? No
delicate acorn
so minions wont get double the extra damage
it's just more output from the carrion lads
fallen pewter
However, since Carrion gets stronger based on the amount of minions you have... if it's a strong minion on its own... then double it for big goodness.
delicate acorn
yeah
fallen pewter
I expect it to really help clearing.
delicate acorn
theoretically you could build them as a golemancer alone
just use zombos as meat shields
get ez damage
and i do mean golemancer, as opposed to golementalist
fallen pewter
They dropped the potential Zombie/Skeleton max however.
delicate acorn
by?
midnight phoenix
I would rly like the text of carrion golem
Its hard to even think about builds when u dunno how well it scales
delicate acorn
looks like skellies are at...11 if you take a chest craft?
fallen pewter
Zombie lost 3 on the tree itself, 2 from Necro. Gained another 4 on gem.
So it lost 1
fallen pewter
Yeah, Skeletons are 11 with chest.
delicate acorn
which sucks because we dont get the nice neat 3/12
fallen pewter
However, maybe gem levels can hit a new summon tier?
fallen pewter
I guess that's fine for Zombies in a golem necro build.
delicate acorn
not really sure how the math checks out tbh
midnight phoenix
Its not like gem levels are bad on their own
In any case its more for aesthetics, u get more dps from the gem level itself than from the +1 skeleton
delicate acorn
oh yeah sure
fallen pewter
That's... debatable. lol
delicate acorn
it seems raise spectre and raise zombie specifically get more minions with extra levels
the 12th zombie is a 9% more
midnight phoenix
10 to 11 zombies is 10% more dps as an example, u would typically get something like 11 or 12 from the level up
delicate acorn
i meant to type skele
midnight phoenix
Or skele
fallen pewter
Yeah true
delicate acorn
but yeah
"Bones of Ullr now grants +1 to all Raise Zombie gems and all Raise Spectre gems, instead of affecting the maximum minion count, as the additional maximum spectres modifier was too much power from a single item. Now, raising the level of these minion gems to a high enough level will grant additional maximum minions, so these modifiers are still useful."
so skeles are, pardon the pun, boned
fallen pewter
Though it's still almost as strong as the level itself.
delicate acorn
i guess the extra skeleton is what the boots are made of
tidal frost
that item never gave extra skelies
delicate acorn
i know, i know
midnight phoenix
Im just as interested in the delve drop mods
delicate acorn
is joke
midnight phoenix
As i am in bones of ullr
tidal frost
THE BONE OF MY SWORD
fallen pewter
Lol
midnight phoenix
Those items werent mentioned and are rly good for minions
delicate acorn
delve spectre i heard is stupid rare
midnight phoenix
It is quite rare
delicate acorn
or am i misreading
tidal frost
I hope null inclanation didnt get a buff that added a CD; I have worms to blast
midnight phoenix
The delve drop mods were not mentioned
delicate acorn
right
midnight phoenix
And im just as interested in those
mental apex
ullr has global +lvl skele/zombie gem,s
midnight phoenix
As i am in the changes to bones of ullr
delicate acorn
they specifically mentioned uniques, so delve rares wouldnt get a mention anyway
midnight phoenix
Is that a better phrasing
wild arch
Ok but what about living weapons
tidal frost
animate weapon is rip besdies probably a general scaling pass
midnight phoenix
ye ik but u wouldnt use bones anyway once u got decent rare boot
snow cairn
they practically said don't play animate weapon on baeclast 😄
delicate acorn
that said, i think delve spectre mod will be around still
since they also didnt mention vis mortis
theyre prolly ok with losing a chest for it
but not boots
tidal frost
base gem buff trade off there
wild arch
You know what
delicate acorn
spectres lost +1 from boots, have they lost it anywhere else
wild arch
Fuck minions and poisons
delicate acorn
because they gained +1 on gem
wild arch
Grug time
tidal frost
seems to be -1 boots +1 gem
wild arch
Hit hard
delicate acorn
so no overall change and you get boots back