yeah it looks like sword leech wheel got moved down and there's a new AoE wheel
#1┃mirage-league
quartz dome
idle hull
Champion when?
quartz dome
maybe that little aoe wheel gives a juicy +x melee range
modest wadi
They gave us some weird skill tree thing instead
no champ yet and champ is the real news today
idle hull
Give Champ!
quiet geyser
quartz dome
oh it looks like the twohander wheel moved over too
it's right under fortify
which might be neat
quiet geyser
And like a new Area of effect node
gentle ermine
So much text so little useful comments. SNAP*
quartz dome
wonder where the little aura wheel moved to
maybe up to the dead space left of duelist start
quartz dome
depends on how it rounds
but yeah
also
get 50% cold taken as fire and 50% lightning taken as fire on a talisman
and then you can just ignore even having cold or lightning res
dusty cove
so um, 8% base crit quil rain?
kindred dagger
depend if the transfer damage is pre or post mitigation
quiet geyser
Or you get eyes of the greatwolf with both :^)
odd steeple
Check standard?
gritty ember
the problem is the talismen say "from hits"
also its pre mitigation. you dont apply resists twice
because you cant apply cold resist to damage that cold resist doesnt apply to anymore
quiet geyser
are there lighning dots from enemys?
odd steeple
No one was lucky
summer magnet
riff, plz when we getting the juicy challenge rewards, and champion reveal?
summer magnet
damnit!
quiet geyser
Is it allready monday for New Zealand?
quiet geyser
WERE IS CHAMPION REEEEEEEEEE
summer magnet
they are 12 hours ahead of my time zone and here it is 00:52
quiet geyser
Were you from?
summer magnet
denmark
quiet geyser
Close 🤔
summer magnet
waiting on mathill ascendancy speculation youtube vid
then off to bed and work work
quiet geyser
Uff
On twiter he posted he has problems with uplaod ^^
BEcause youtube is kinda buggy atm
quiet geyser
Molten strike zerker prediktion for his prediction 
summer magnet
my bets are pretty wide, but Tec slam, Cyclone or Molten strike.
Dunno what he will roll tho
but those are prob what im gonna roll myself depending on new passive tree and patch notes 😛
but im pretty sure im rolling a zerker
summer magnet
im so tired of watching everyone play worb... seriously it killed the viewer counts on twitch. Because everyone played the same boring spell.. That's why i love mathill :3
odd steeple
Why MS when we know it's getting looked at specifically?
quiet geyser
Depends on what they change on Trickster, but i will maybe go Cyclon Trickster.
What?
odd steeple
The MS balls do like 120% base damage, the chances that survives are approximately zero I would wager.
quiet geyser
Maybe they will reduced it by like 10%
But with the attack speed and more dmg on zerker
odd steeple
Try like 66%
quiet geyser
it will be insane if its not a hard nerf
summer magnet
i must have missed the post where they said they were changing MS. You have a post? not that it would bother me that much tbh
odd steeple
Other "shotgunning" type stuff like Tornado Shot have like 40-60% base damage.
It was just Jonathan the first time he was on Baeclast
quiet geyser
Someone in Beaclast said, we were going to ajust mS
And in the next someone said, and now we need to try fixing MS again to deal dmg
summer magnet
on that baeclast he only talked about that MS could only prob from the initial hit and not the entirety of enemies that was hit within the cone if im not mistaken?
proc*
odd steeple
compare to, say, Frost Blades: you can't hit the same target with the attack and the proj, and then you can't shotgun the proj from one attack
that's the kind of skill that gets 120% damage effectiveness projectiles
Molten Strike is just dumb
They say they're rebalancing melee, I trust them to actually do it
summer magnet
you might be right 😛
still meme builds with zerker and 30 aps will happen
with 1 million balls
xD
quiet geyser
The balls deal 72-88%
odd steeple
Yeah, you could nerf it by a factor of three and it would still be good in current meta (but only for crazy builds like high-investment howa LGOH etc.
quiet geyser
I hope they dont nerf it into oblivion.
Maybe reduce the dmg a bit, but not to much
odd steeple
I think it needs to be comparable to other melee skills
summer magnet
it says right here that projectiles deal 40-30% LESS damage tho
it's only the strike itself dealing 120% base damage
odd steeple
Yes, less than 161% damage effectiveness
odd steeple
161% damage effectiveness * 0.7 = 113% damage effectiveness
Not sure where you're getting 88% from
summer magnet
wasn't me but yeah 88% isn't right
odd steeple
Yeah @quiet geyser
quiet geyser
I trusted the wiki i am sorry
odd steeple
Oh I figured it out. The old numbers were 147% and 40% less for projectiles at all levels.
Buffed in 3.5
(Trusting the wiki is a risky proposition these days, Curse absolutely gutted it and all the regular contributors left)
quiet geyser
What Happened?
odd steeple
They disabled a bunch of the scripts that the wiki used to automatically keep skills and items up to date for resource cost reasons.
summer magnet
if they buffed MS in 3.5 i doubt they gonna nerf it in 3.7
odd steeple
I literally facepalmed when they did it at the time. It was already obviously going to be insane post stat-stick nerf.
Like it was competitive with stat-stick blade flurry at the time before the buff. Then they killed stat sticks and buffed Molten Strike and expected it not to literally quadruple the DPS of other melee skills?
violet nymph
So what that jewel keystone reads to me is cheiftian: spend 2x on cold and lightning resist but get 50% life recovery rate all the time instead of just from fire and physical hits
quiet geyser
Yes
violet nymph
50% life recovery rate is stupid.
odd steeple
I don't think Chieftain cares, in that sense.
I mean trickster has 70%
The reliability on just phys attacks alone is enough
quiet geyser
And you gain that tones of Fire Res from Chieftain
odd steeple
Almost all skills from enemies that hit are partial conversion skills
even the spells
It has a lot of synergy with Chieftain, in that phys taken as fire builds are great on chieftain with 10% from the ascendancy, and this goes along great with that
But the recovery isn't much of a factor
eternal turtle
Anyone else find the legion passives kinda meh?
quiet geyser
Yea beside the vaal one
summer magnet
the vaal one looks amazing
quiet geyser
With ES recovery on life
violet nymph
I think they learned from last league of not showing the top end ones that are stupid op
odd steeple
They're all kinda cool though. Like it's OK that many of them are just too weird to be generically good.
Not all jewels need to be Unnatural Instinct
quiet geyser
I hope that they learned, layers of rng are nice, but done wrong is just totutre for the players
summer magnet
also we don't know if they have different effects to different keystone / notables / passives
eternal turtle
They said they do
summer magnet
where?
violet nymph
Baeclast
odd steeple
They also affect the minor nodes too, right?
eternal turtle
In the long post about legion mechanics or something
violet nymph
Yes they can @odd steeple
quiet geyser
they can
odd steeple
So they could have a bunch of effects there
summer magnet
no i mean
quiet geyser
The vaal one with 9% max life 🤔
eternal turtle
I just wonder how rare they will be
summer magnet
did they state that the new jewels would have different effect from lets say resolute technique to iron grip?
odd steeple
And Chris said that not all the legion factions drop the same kinds of jewels -- like changing Keystones is maybe just the orange faction and the Vaal faction
gusty crag
so rare but not too much
quiet geyser
Just imagin it drops with a 1% Chance in the fight with all 5 sides 🤔
eternal turtle
Ok but when available to average redditer is that just a crappy one? Or one of the better ones? Kinda like uniques are easy for everyone to get but good ones no so much
odd steeple
Maybe one of them like changes to random other keystones from elsewhere? So you can get like Point Blank on the top of the tree, or something. Or maybe even doubles up Keystones or something
eternal turtle
We don’t know what they all do and won’t until we data mine them prob
gusty crag
lmao gimme my ci marauder pog
quiet geyser
I hope there is one wich converts life to es and some int so you can get easy ES zerkers xD
odd steeple
Well, they said that making Synthesis data-mineable was one of the biggest mistakes of the league
gusty crag
that's not jugg howa
odd steeple
So they might be really careful about what they ship to the client this time
eternal turtle
Lol if sysnthesis wasn’t datamine able then it would of sucked even more sob
odd steeple
Yeah, it worries me too that they wanted that level of complexity to be hidden.
summer magnet
they should just stick to simple league mechanics tbh
its a arpg.. i really dislike the synthesis complexity
quiet geyser
I loved syntesis, but it was to much rng
And the Nexus was kinda wierd
odd steeple
I like the complexity, but I do think recipes like that should be known.
chrome copper
Ez gets boring
summer magnet
easy and hard and simple and complex are two very different things
odd steeple
Yeah, I understand why the pendulum swung back this way for a league.
quiet geyser
Just make Complex Stuff wich is easy to understand
chrome copper
Then it wouldnt b complex
eternal turtle
Last league wasn’t hard it was just rng rng rng
odd steeple
Like Legion jewels and their seeds are fairly complex but not something you need to understand til later and won't feel too bad to not fully grasp I think.
Whereas literally not knowing what to do with the multiple quad tabs of junk filling your stash is really really sad.
eternal turtle
Needed rng to get high item levels to get high mods to get right fracture to get right systhisys
quiet geyser
The last step in sytesises just shouldnt be random
Thant itwould have been perfect and worth the time
But having to ginrd and craft 8hours and then getting nothing is just frustrating
odd steeple
I kinda like the RNG? The synthesis RNG that is. All the shitty low tiers of fractured mods are just feelsbadman though -- why not just make them all T1 and more rare?
Like, there will still be good and bad mods, like the one that makes onslaught is good, the one that makes +15% resistance is bad.
But no need to litter us with garbage
Compare to, say, the Incursion mods
The lightning one was always 48% resist and 10% phys taken as lightning
eternal turtle
I kinda like how betrayal took work but you knew what you were getting
odd steeple
that felt good, and the item was usually junk anyways
eternal turtle
Would like that more myself
odd steeple
But at least it was worth looking at instead of these wonky fractured mods
quiet geyser
I love Fractured mods TBH, but i dislike that you need fractured items for the syntesiser
eternal turtle
I can’t wait until 4.0 when they redo the item drops cause I’m not a big fan of crafting but it’s required right now
Steph that would be a good idea
quiet geyser
and then they can keep the randomness in the syntesiser because all rares could be used
eternal turtle
I wouldn’t mind system like that
quiet geyser
but then +1 bows and so would be to easy?
odd steeple
I think it's not practical though. Too easy to alt-spam to the best effects.
quiet geyser
Still atm its easy
eternal turtle
Maybe ya can only use found times
quiet geyser
Just realy anyyoing rng
odd steeple
Like single-mod onslaught boots would be trivial, just three pairs of white i86 boots.
eternal turtle
Can’t use crafted items
quiet geyser
That would make some impliceds unaccesable
Like chance to deal double damage impliced is only optainable by the jun craft
odd steeple
yeah, and faster bleed rate is only from delve crafts
there are some essence-only ones too
eternal turtle
They could move those to other mods
odd steeple
Sure, in theory it could work, but then everywhere, on all trade sites you need to track crafted vs found etc.
quiet geyser
i think it wouldnt be to broken
idle hull
champ when
quiet geyser
It would make items way more accesable
odd steeple
Also most found items are junk anyways
quiet geyser
but regals and annuls will be expensiv
odd steeple
It would just be even more RNG
Because you have at least 4 mods on everything you put in
eternal turtle
Unless your using blue items ya find
eternal turtle
Maybe then any found works including uniques
odd steeple
I mean some uniques have silly mods
eternal turtle
Synth 3 uniques to get a unique implicit
odd steeple
Well, they explicitly stated that they wanted to reserve synthesis implicits on uniques as future design space.
quiet geyser
Gain it as a currency orb and put it on an item you want? XD
eternal turtle
Yep
quiet geyser
cant wait for the double +flat phis starforge
summer magnet
that would be way too op tbh
eternal turtle
Lol can’t craft uniques
summer magnet
500% increased phys from starforge put onto a crafted weapon... pff
odd steeple
Voidforge with flat phys?
odd steeple
Yeah and then corrupt it to get the second flat phys roll 😛
eternal turtle
I was thinking ya craft multiple uniques to get a implicit orb that you can then craft onto a item
It works like a essence with that implicit
summer magnet
still too op
quiet geyser
Cant wait for the impliced shocked enemys you kill explode dealing 5% max hp dmg :^)
quiet geyser
Or killing a rare grants it mods for 20 seconds impliced
for the small cost of 3 Headhunters
lucid stone
Whys the fortify wheel got a brand symbol
summer magnet
mathils video will be up soonish
eternal turtle
One thing I hope they introduce is reliable way to get charges other than ascendency
summer magnet
like 5-10min¨
summer magnet
there is plenty of ways :p
eternal turtle
How ya gain 7 endurance charges vs boss?
odd steeple
Mostly the problem is Enduring Cry sucks
quiet geyser
Enduring Cry?
eternal turtle
Using it 7 times?
quiet geyser
yea
eternal turtle
Boss should be dead by then
summer magnet
problem solved
lament dagger
Use the boots that give you charges if you are stationary
summer magnet
yeah there is literally boots for that xD
quiet geyser
Or the Delve rings with gain an endurance charge when you get a frenzy/power charge
eternal turtle
What rings are those?
summer magnet
same with power charges from the shield when you throw traps for max boss damage
odd steeple
The Precursor Emblems
eternal turtle
Ohh
lament dagger
And super expensive lol
odd steeple
Anything good, yeah
eternal turtle
Lol gear swap isn’t good way to get charges .. and is there any build that uses those rings right now?
odd steeple
I mean yeah, charges are really good so like +1 and a charge gen mod is super OP for example
eternal turtle
Ya I’ll never see one prob then .. my end games builds are around 6 ex.. normally like 5ex for 6L and 12 ex for rest of gear
1-2 ex
odd steeple
You and me both. Like if I get more net worth than that I just make more builds that league.
summer magnet
idle hull
GIVE CHAMPION
summer magnet
np stephfra 😄
odd steeple
ahh yeah Mathil agrees with me on Gladiator
I feel an unnatural amount of smugness right now
idle hull
Issue with Glad is it doesnt have even half the damage the others have. It has bleed pops, and uhhh that is about it.
quiet geyser
Abyssal Cry
idle hull
Now it does, but it didnt in the past.
odd steeple
I mean yeah, this is all about Legion gladiator not current one
I think I would do Gladiator Cyclone or MAAAYBE slayer Cyclone
idle hull
But point being is Mathil thought the old Glad was good too. Which I'm not sure about lol. All it really ever had going for it (if you werent using the block portions) was bleed pops.
quiet geyser
Trickster Cyclon :^)
odd steeple
Yeah that probably is good too. Lower damage but tankier.
quiet geyser
Free Frenzy and Power Charges
Harnes of the Void
No mana cost on main skill
+That Shroud stuff
odd steeple
Wait, you're not taking Ghost Shrouds?
quiet geyser
eternal turtle
Is there any good way to generate frenzy’s on berserker with ST?
odd steeple
I would think the right thing is both Ghost Shroud nodes, charges and weave.
copper kernel
the first point in shrouds is so shit tho
odd steeple
or maybe Harness and Charges if you have some mana on hit
or even Charges + Patient Reaper and go full leech
odd steeple
Yeh but the second Ghost Shroud node is the really good one, no?
quiet geyser
Hm
copper kernel
yea
odd steeple
I guess they're both only OK. And you don't need the stun immunity actually
So maybe you're right not to take it
quiet geyser
Not takeing the first one is stupid
Not takeing the Seconed one is debatable
copper kernel
i cant see a reason why youd take the mana node
over the 2nd shroud
its both better offense and defense
quiet geyser
15% Reduced dmg taken
odd steeple
from what?
quiet geyser
9 From Shrouds +6 from weave
odd steeple
you're not spending mana though
quiet geyser
Hm 🤔 depends
copper kernel
youd have to spend 200 mana with a non movement skill
copper kernel
that sounds like horrible QoL
quiet geyser
OR a curse
copper kernel
stopping to cast every 4 seconds
odd steeple
I think you should just ignore the 6%, and enjoy reserving all your mana and 20% attack speed
copper kernel
odd steeple
Or spec out
odd steeple
Toggling auras every 4 seconds though?
quiet geyser
🤷 you dont spend mana on something else
but doesnt realy matter, again its just prefecence on what you like more
the 2 node is strong and if you go Phase accro i would pref that too ^^
odd steeple
36% attack speed and 20% dodge, but you need mana recovery. I guess it's up to you which is best.
Also you get a bunch of free ES pool, which is great because it makes the first node's recovery better.
quiet geyser
And we still dont know the mana cost of Cyclon
If its like 200 Mana per sec with all links
Then yea
odd steeple
Well, most channeling skills aren't like that, right?
Like BF is low
Scourge Arrow is a bit expensive
Something to point out is that when they redid the spells last league they did a full pass normalizing the channel cost of all skills
solid nova
Level 1 is 2 mana per second base
odd steeple
So maybe all the melee channeling attacks will get normalized too?
quiet geyser
No clue we will see that ^^
odd steeple
Two attitudes towards spoilers: https://i.imgur.com/cvsQuT0.png
quiet geyser
I dont have school nor work 🤔 i am a student fuck off 🤔 xD
summer magnet
i got work 😦
quiet geyser
Its 2 am you should sleep 🤔
summer magnet
if you do go for rage, go with rite of ruin aswell
quiet geyser
it depends if the AS with the more, is more then the flat more
summer magnet
that sentence confused me
odd steeple
Is 10 a good node without 12?
There's other ways to generate rage so it's like 12% double damage/
quiet geyser
12% chance to deal dounle damage
^^
And if you do like Molten Strike
With like 8 Balls
odd steeple
I would take 40% more/10% taken over 12% double damage any day
quiet geyser
40% more/10 Dmg Taken
vs
50%AS/20%Ms/100%Attack /5% life drain
summer magnet
so pob can calc the exact difference for us. but im pretty sure rite of ruin would be better than the 40% more
odd steeple
Just saying, like 14+6 might be better than 10+14 if rage is attanable elsewhere
summer magnet
150% attack
summer magnet
it's tripled tho
quiet geyser
Yes
lament dagger
It's triple so 150
summer magnet
1% pr. 1 rage
quiet geyser
is 100
summer magnet
-50?
lament dagger
Oh he is talking about over the 2 pointer
odd steeple
it's 100% attack damage, 50% attack speed, 20% movespeed, and stun immunity
lament dagger
But stun immunity as well
odd steeple
in exchange for 5% constant degen
summer magnet
yeah well
lament dagger
Yes I think this beats crave of slaughter
odd steeple
I think it's a really good node
lament dagger
But you dont even have to choose
summer magnet
im not so sure
lament dagger
I would rather not be stunned against bossed
summer magnet
depends hwo the skills tree looks like and how accessable regen nodes are to us
odd steeple
There would need to be a heck of a rage generator skill to make me OK with rage on bosses
odd steeple
like you start at zero and need 17 seconds of combat before you get to full power?
summer magnet
if you do bosses
you are loosingrage
every 4 s
which means
you ain't degenning
odd steeple
The degen is not the issue
It's rage generation
Like you zone into shaper and you have zero rage, what do you do?
quiet geyser
Hit shaper
lament dagger
You build it up
odd steeple
you only get max 3 stacks per second
viral bramble
hit shapers minions things
quiet geyser
Worms
viral bramble
like the semi bosses
odd steeple
it takes AT LEAST 17 seconds of constant combat to reach power
lament dagger
Yea Rage goes down 1 by 1
summer magnet
15s
odd steeple
Worms are only 1 charge each at best
summer magnet
but yeah
lament dagger
Not all at once
summer magnet
anyways.. im off to bed
odd steeple
If there's some reliable rage gen skill then I think it's OK
summer magnet
hf
lament dagger
Shaper and Uber Elder is one of the few instances where you will have initial rage issues
odd steeple
but otherwise rage is just a momentum thing
lament dagger
Against Guardians you will be going into bosses with some rage
viral bramble
u can do 100% conversion melee skill and use brutality
as off hand so u never kill wormms
but are hitting it
odd steeple
Worms are destroyed on hit
viral bramble
oh
odd steeple
no need to do damage
viral bramble
hmmm
lament dagger
Vaal Breach before a fight
viral bramble
how do u generate it?
odd steeple
Also doesn't help on bosses
lament dagger
You can build up Vaal Breach before Shaper
odd steeple
(to be clear by bosses I mean like Izaro and Shaper and stuff, not map bosses)
odd steeple
(Elder is like that too, though it's a long fight and 17s warmup isn't too bad)
I mean why are you killing adds on Izaro?
unless you're doing one of the key objectives
viral bramble
ive never died to first phase elder, then there are mobs
lament dagger
Only first phase of Elder is going to be a thing
odd steeple
Agreed, elder isn't too bad cause it's so long
but like Shaper minibosses and stuff will be annoying
lament dagger
Not killing intentionally justbthey are caught in the splash zone
odd steeple
I think Zerker is just gonna want to just do turbo Toxic Sewers at light speed, and leave all this stuff for someone else anyways
lament dagger
If its reall an issue then put in Chain move
odd steeple
Chain move needs enemies presumably
lament dagger
Yes use it on the boss
odd steeple
I think this is deliberate: no way to generate rage without an enemy to hit
or get hit by
odd steeple
right but for Shaper you want him dead in 10 seconds, not to build up anything
lament dagger
It already does have insane damage but you need to ramp up to it
I am ok with this
viral bramble
against shaper u can build it up on minibosses
odd steeple
Zerker does have insane damage if you take Blitz and Aspect
viral bramble
ya
lament dagger
100% better than Gladiator which is on kill only
odd steeple
the whole question is with Rite of Ruin or Aspect is better
lament dagger
Then respec our when you are going to start killing shaper a lot
odd steeple
and I think Rite is obvious, but I mentioned Aspect is better for bossing and someone disagreeed -- hence this discussion ;P
lament dagger
Cuz for 95% of the game you will be mapping
viral bramble
but rite means u essentially have 10% less damage
odd steeple
Yes, I agree
viral bramble
less hp i mean
lament dagger
I think Berserker wont be the best dedicated bosser, I think Champion and Slayer will beat it
odd steeple
Aspect is 10% less HP you mean?
viral bramble
ya
lament dagger
Unless you have Molten Strike Berserker
strange falcon
Arena Challenger node for Glad is actually really good..
lament dagger
It is
odd steeple
I don't know, Zerker might be best bosser, you get two 40% more multipliers for bosses
lament dagger
But the other Gladiator nodes aint too hot
odd steeple
It's obviously not very tanky
viral bramble
i mean i made a 3mil dps, blood seeker, 8k hp build on bers, and the gear at most is 20ex
theory crafted
odd steeple
but you can just try to blow up the boss fast
quiet geyser
Who need Tankyness, when the boss is dead`?
lament dagger
Slayer Cull plus like random 30% more multipliers and such
strange falcon
but muh bleed explosions
quiet geyser
?
quiet geyser
Getting the Crit chages will be easy
lament dagger
Oh
quiet geyser
With MS
odd steeple
Slayer gets like 11% more effective from better cull, 30% more from Headsman, and whatever the 8% crit node is worth for you
It's great, and has less defensive issues
but that's not 2x 40% more multipliers
quiet geyser
But you dont gain Attack Speed xD
viral bramble
but insta leech+8k hp is pretty rediculous with 3mil dps
quiet geyser
And Attack speed is insane
odd steeple
Zerker is for min-max boss deleters and clearspeed demons I think
quiet geyser
Ancestral Call Totems Zerker?
lament dagger
Which skill you using?
viral bramble
blade flurry
lament dagger
Blade Flurry lol
viral bramble
2.2mil with reave
odd steeple
Well, everything is getting rebalanced
lament dagger
I bet I can make a 3 million dps Slayer BF build too
odd steeple
Right now MS for bossing would be insane on zerker
viral bramble
i mean, can u make it bloodseeker+8k life
odd steeple
BF is not ideal because it doesn't hit too much so the ramp-up on Blitz would be slow
If you're trying to kill in 2 seconds can't be taking 4s to get 20 charges
odd steeple
It's a "just don't get hit 4head" build
viral bramble
8k life means only hella telegraphed moves will kill you
lament dagger
I made a 2 million DPS Crit Cyclone Slayer with Starforge
Not even that fancy
Using Kaom's Heart
More damage if you use like Loreweave
However I slightly cheated
I ticked "killed recently"
👀
strange falcon
banned
odd steeple
2mil boss DPS is like a 30second Uber Elder phase though
odd steeple
I see zero reason why you shouldn't be able to do like 20mil with zerker MS
strange falcon
use a writhing jar lol
lament dagger
Same for BF
odd steeple
BF is not THAT insane
lament dagger
MS and BF could already get insane damage single target and delete Shaper
Well I guess when we had off hand stat sticks
BF was godlike
odd steeple
It's good for small hitboxes and it does more damage than any non-shotgunning melee skill
but it's not been on top since stat sticks got deleted
strange falcon
bring back stat sticks, add an option to just disable offhand attacks 😂
odd steeple
Does that disable the 30% more multiplier for dual wielding?
strange falcon
nah lol
quiet geyser
UFFFFFFFFF
lament dagger
Oh shit
odd steeple
Adrenaline node now not a giant pain to use
quiet geyser
IT sshit?
odd steeple
I mean Champion was already good so it's still OK
quiet geyser
ITs boring
violet nymph
Basicly strong but boring
odd steeple
It's like the most unique melee class already
idle hull
Nah, it isnt even strong anymore if that is it lol
viral bramble
naa, its still strong
odd steeple
Like nothing is new and shiny but don't tell me granting all allies "Hits Cannot be Evaded" and the taunt thing is not unique and interesting
strange falcon
¯_(ツ)_/¯
odd steeple
We don't actually know the accuracy formula yet
It was a pain for mapping to rely on that node
But it was good on bosses
idle hull
We know that they are making it MUCH easier to get capped, and the cap is now 100%
Aka its fucking shit
odd steeple
We don't know that they are making it much easier
We just know they're making it possible
violet nymph
They did say they were making it easier to hit max chance to hit
lament dagger
This changes nothing if anything its more appealing to go Adrenaline as Champion
odd steeple
He instantly corrected himself when he said it. Jonathan was like "Now it's easy to get 100%" "Wait, no, with investment you can get 100%"
Also we don't know how map mods will interact
Like maybe there's like much higher thresholds to get 100% on certain map mods?
idle hull
Yeah no, just go Jugg. Which will almost certainly be cap or near cap accuracy.
And it has way more going for it.
odd steeple
Yeah, the fact that everyone chooses Jugg now over Champion doesn't really bode well for Champion in the future
The fact that Champion sucks at mapping and isn't anything special on bosses is bad
idle hull
Champion is dead if this is it.
gentle ermine
Oh smallest picture ever here is a larger one
gentle ermine
No you cant read
quiet geyser
WE got it before bex posted it on reddit
Because Twitter is better
Like we all know
idle hull
Ugh that is soooo disappointing
gentle ermine
You and few ppl are not all.
sand spade
that's it!?
gentle ermine
why its the same
idle hull
Champion just got kicked in the balls so hard
gentle ermine
ofc cus i copied it after enlarging it .
But you wuld have known that if you read.
Now focus on the mechanics -.-
strange falcon
Master of Metal: 4 to 8 -> 6 to 12
First to Strike Last to Fall: 25% Max life when you gain Adrenaline
Inspirational: 20% banner stages to 40% and 0.5% life regen to 0.1% per stage
that's all I think
quiet geyser
ITs 0.5 Recover to 0,1 regen
strange falcon
right
quiet geyser
wich just nerfs it
odd steeple
so like 5% regen at max
I think it's better because you usually preplace banners as you start the fight
But not a totally crazy effect
A nerf to Vaal Pact Champions I guess
idle hull
Honestly there is no reason to go Champion now, and it makes me sad.
lament dagger
Champion aint shit now tbh
idle hull
Except if you are going an impale build, maybe.
strange falcon
champ is still as good as it was
lament dagger
Good isnt good enough
quiet geyser
But likely champion will fall behind
lament dagger
Raider is "good" but lool
lament dagger
Like nowadays the baseline for Ascendancies is
quiet geyser
Insane Crit Slayer, Clear Speed Gladiator, And Support Champion
lament dagger
"Wtf thats busted!"
tiny flint
14, 4, 6, 8. Rathpith globe summoner on champion
Becomes super tanky
and cruise through delves
wild arch
tiny flint
idle hull
I guess we'll see how easy it really is to hit 100% accuracy
quiet geyser
Why would you ever take 6
idle hull
If Jugg can do it easily, then there will be no purpose in Champion
tiny flint
6 is fortify?
quiet geyser
Yes
tiny flint
why not become tanky
zealous monolith
What changed significantly?
strange falcon
Fortitude seems useless to me now, if they're buffing Fortify Support
tiny flint
as a summoner?
tiny flint
Hmm
quiet geyser
for 30 sec
quiet geyser
and 10 is basicly better
? you can still use a ranged wepaon
But then you dont use vigilant strike
And fortyfy is easy tog et
And why 4 when you are not dealing dmg yourselfe?
strange falcon
armor and stun I guess?
tiny flint
mm
strange falcon
attack speed for shield charge lol
lament dagger
The very least they could have done was "You and allies have Fortify"
quiet geyser
its 20% increased dmg on top of everything
lament dagger
At least go in on support Champion
tiny flint
I think the banner node + rathpith has potential
need to find right order of nodes
tho for everything else
😔
quiet geyser
14/12/4
strange falcon
Warchief and Double Strike champ still fine
quiet geyser
Warchief Zerker is Fine
strange falcon
I'm going to be playing Slayer tho 😉
idle hull
No champ build is fine if every ascendancy can easily hit accuracy cap
lament dagger
Why play Double Strike Champ when you can play Double Strike Gladiator
Or Double Strike Berserker
idle hull
Champion was good for a good mix of offense and defense, it just lost a hell of a lot of offense, and it's defenses were always eh (because you could easily get them elsewhere).
proven wadi
What offense did it lose in the change btw
strange falcon
adrenaline boss nuke still gud
idle hull
@proven wadi A lot of indirect offense from other changes. The hit chance cap was moved to 100%, and they have confirmed that it will be easier to get high hit chance. Thus Champion lost one of it's main benefits.
lament dagger
Ever since they introduced War Banner
There was less reason to play Champion
Accuracy, more damage and adrenaline
They haven't changed that Champion Fortify node since I started playing the game lol
modest wadi
uh, war banner with these changes means you get to recover 25% life and remove ailments every 2 seconds now. seems ok to me
odd steeple
The fortify node is fine, IMO
You never would take it on a melee build, which is fine
It's there for people who use wands and bows and shiz
@modest wadi where are you getting 25% life recovery from a banner?
modest wadi
@odd steeple war banner gives adrenaline when you place it and the new node recovers 25% of maximum life when you gain adrenaline
odd steeple
Oh haha, that's a cute interaction
livid apex
That's a damn good catch
odd steeple
It's a little tricky, because if you let the War Banner gain too many stacks the adrenaline will last too long
livid apex
Wait holy shit
modest wadi
duration doesnt matter
livid apex
Master of Metal impale flat went from 4-8 to 6-12
modest wadi
there is no cooldown on teh life gain effect
odd steeple
You won't "Gain Adrenaline" if you already have it, right?
modest wadi
read war banner
odd steeple
or is this like gaining a frenzy charge
livid apex
P sure you'd still gain it
modest wadi
says .05 second per stage
livid apex
Otherwise the "if you do not have adrenaline" bit wouldn't be necessary
rigid forge
^
modest wadi
besides, if you cant make good on that kind of recovery effect on demand you might be in other kinds of trouble
as in you dont need it as often as it is theoretically possible to have it
odd steeple
I thought that was to avoid perma adrenaline setups
So you'd always have to time it
But maybe I'm wrong
modest wadi
again, think of it more as a work around for having all kinds of anti ailment flask rolls
now you can just put damage on flasks 😁
anyways, im out
odd steeple
Thanks for blowing our minds @modest wadi
rigid forge
Wonder if (vaal) double strike will still get flat dmg per gem level
Even though it sortakinda already has
odd steeple
Didn't they say all melee skills would have it?
I'd assume VDS will be somewhat higher than most gems because of its bleeding condition
odd steeple
That's what I think too. I'd expect that a normal gem will have like half of Double Strike's flat damage bonus
Just total speculation of course
idle hull
I'm assuming it will be significantly less than half. Like a tenth.
lol
And mostly to make leveling smoother
odd steeple
Double Strike has what, 113-169
idle hull
yup
odd steeple
The stated reason for doing this is to swing some of the power level away from weapons and towards gem levels
if there was like 14 average phys on a level 20 gem, I don't think it would do taht
that's less than a single ring
idle hull
I dont think that is the case.
Im pretty sure GGG doesnt want to make melee weapons useless.
odd steeple
Sure, but even Double Strike's amount doesn't make melee weapons useless
native osprey
I would expect more than an abyssus worth
idle hull
Im assuming the phsy added to gems will just be for making the leveling process smoother, you will most definitely still rely on weapons for mapping and further.
Oh it nearly does Clueless. You can do end game content with double strike with white weapons.
Obviously good weapons still do indeed help
odd steeple
You can, and you can do it with stat sticks like Paradoxica
But like managing the endgame on white weapons with weapons being a boost is kinda what they want, no?
just like you can go into endgame with no weapons on a spellcaster
idle hull
Id be very surprised if we're seeing higher than 20 - 30 average phys on gems
odd steeple
OK I betcha a dollar it's 50+ 😛
idle hull
That kind of damage would make double strike worthless
odd steeple
Why? It has twice the bonus and VDS is still cool
idle hull
Because everything else hits harder. No reason to use it. You'd still use VDS ofc.
odd steeple
I'm still confused, why would other things hit harder if DS has twice the bonus?
odd steeple
You say that, but it was 1% of builds last league.
Just hoping the rising tide of melee raises all duelists
native osprey
being storng and being able to compete with worb/es are different things
violet nymph
^
odd steeple
Fair. I still hate Champion mapping. You have to invest in accuracy anyways despite having an insane hits cannot be evaded node
marsh wagon
So nerf but competitive? Just weaker tham current patch
native osprey
witha systematic rework to make melee better champ will be more viable though with its minimal changes it will probably only be 'solid' and not 'bonkers'
odd steeple
Champion is pretty much strictly buffed, no?
native osprey
yes
idle hull
Champ very weak depending on just how much easier it is to get high accuracy.
bright peak
odd steeple
I think Champion is just hard to defend
It was like a generic 20% increased damage taken, free intimidate and adrenaline, and some reasonable armor/eva defenses
violet nymph
Id rather zerker or slayer
odd steeple
Which means if you slap 20-40% more damage on all the other ascendancies you get no more reason to go champion
violet nymph
All standard
marsh wagon
Is that likely to last a while?
violet nymph
Until league start
kindred dagger
So they still didnt add anything to champion for the fortify, honestly permanetly fortify i dont found that too good, like fortify is "easy" to have anyway and you need to waste TWO point for this, i dont think that justify 2 point just ot be able to win one gem slot
odd steeple
If you take the perma-fortify node on a melee build, especially now that Fortify can be put in main links but even before, you're doing it wrong.
pseudo kernel
are you guys talking about new champion?
odd steeple
perma-fortify is amazing on bows and wands, where you literally can't get it any other way.
Otherwise skip. Leap slam is not hard to use.
pseudo kernel
because if im not mistaken, new champion can use both banners?
odd steeple
Not at the same time
pseudo kernel
judging by how new inspirational is worded
read the skill
'You and Allies affected by your placed BannerS
old inspiration was just 'when you place a banner'
why word it that way if you couldnt place multiple
odd steeple
I think that's just because it's a static effect now
I wouldn't read too much into the wording
But there's always the possibility I guess
pseudo kernel
idk ggg doesnt change wording on things for no reason
it wasnt like the wording was confusing
also if you could only place one
why nerf it?
the +20% stages gained doesnt seem worthy of a .4%/stage nerf
odd steeple
They didn't, they changed it because it used to be a one shot thing that happened instantly, and now it lasts while you have a banner out
It's not a .4% nerf, it was one-shot recovery before
Now it's 0.1% per stage per second of regen
odd steeple
well, it's a little like taking a 10% reduced mana reserved node, which isn't too bad
pseudo kernel
yeah it's something but
most builds are probably just going to take worth foe conqueror unstoppable hero fortitude
odd steeple
It also has some cute synergy with the Adrenaline node: if you spam War Banner you recover 25% of your life every 2 seconds and remove all status ailments
pseudo kernel
or maybe first to strike last to fall, but you cant gimmick it
odd steeple
Which is like a scuffed Zerker warcry node 😛
odd steeple
Yeah, I think it's not good enough though. The Adrenaline node is maybe worth it just for intimidate, but this way you won't have adrenaline or your banner for half the time.
pseudo kernel
yep
pseudo kernel
i guess you can still blood magic blashpemy to get forced to below 35%
but the buff makes it so you want to get put there by an enemy
odd steeple
You can do the RF thing
pseudo kernel
buuut if you're getting chunked down to 35%, you probably need more heals
rf thing?
odd steeple
Activate RF, tick down to 35%, the node removes the burning and heals you for 25%
wide ridge
or just vaal rf, go to 0, hop back to 25%
turbid quartz
eager charm
midnight phoenix
If u are particularly degenerate u can also reserve 5% of ur life with clarity aura
Then weapon swap to two montreguls
Which puts u at 35%
If u do this i will block u because it makes ur life ball look ugly as fuck
But it is an option
primal whale
It's adrenaline for 20 seconds
So just do it like all the others. Weaponswap Blasphemy + Blood magic + any curse
Click it twice and you have your insane buff
odd steeple
The problem is that if you do that you don't benefit from the 25% life recovery
There must be a better way
primal whale
Which doesnt matter at all
odd steeple
Sure, you can survive without it just as always
primal whale
Put 100% increased life recovered on your flask
And you are full health
RF shouldnt work as it isnt your usual ignite
odd steeple
RF definitely works, the node removes all burning not just ignites
It's like a dousing flask
the problem is that RF takes a few seconds to tick down even if you're vaal pact
Vaal RF helps but then you can't use other Vaal skills
odd steeple
Yes, it disables the whole RF skill
primal whale
But yeah just use blood magic curse blasphemy
odd steeple
I don't think it's perfect because Blasphemy is a LOT faster
primal whale
super easy
odd steeple
Maybe you could use a smaller reservation % aura and toggle it twice?
so the second toggle fills the first one's life pool?
primal whale
You shouldnt try to invest so heavily just to get 25% healing when you trigger your big boy buff for a boss
See it as if you ever take a big hit you get healed for free
odd steeple
It's not even an investment though
two more button presses in order to not need a life flask and just start at 60% life
odd steeple
It's just tapping a button 4 times instead of 2
and it even saves a gem socket
why not?
primal whale
Saving gem sockets in a weapon swap 🤔
It doesnt even save a socket
You need 2 auras + blood magic
odd steeple
yes, for more gem leveling, not a big deal obviously
odd steeple
you can just use the same aura twice
primal whale
Not sure if that would work
wintry lantern
Hmmm, Herald of Purity/Shattering Steel Champion or Dom Blow/HoP Guardian...?
primal whale
Isnt Shattering Steel pretty bad?
wintry lantern
I'm thinking with the champion impale buffs it should be good
odd steeple
ooooh, putting a 50% and a 35% aura in Prism Guardian is exactly 65%
odd steeple
err, it's 68%
primal whale
Mathil played a Shatterin / Lancing Steel Champion and was pretty disappointment
silver kettle
@primal whale the flat damage per impale on Master of Metal got buffed 50%
wasn't highlighted in the image
wintry lantern
Armor bonus from impale could be viable with the armor adjustments too
primal whale
Still cant believe they gave champion some love while raider is just a worse berserker
odd steeple
OK, I found a setup that's pretty nice
two purities, linked to Arcane Surge, in a Prism Guardian
68% reservation
so swap, toggle one, toggle other, you have 57% HP and Adrenaline
primal whale
But you effectively gained nothing for more inputs
odd steeple
you gained 25% HP and removed one of your flasks
Obviously if you don't care about the buffed node you don't have to do this
primal whale
Entering something like U-Elder with 57 is suicide
So you will have to pop your flask no matter the method
odd steeple
It also doesn't even work 😛
the cooldown kills it
can't turn off the aura for 1.2 seconds
so this was a big dead-end
violet nymph
Have you guys seen the 45 attacks per second flicker build?
lament dagger
is this some Berserker shit?
violet nymph
Yup
lament dagger
how is sustaining Frenzy charges?
violet nymph
jovial sail
Blood Trail boots which grant frenzy on hit while bleeeding
lament dagger
thats what I thought
odd steeple
Oh this is the cospri's malice meme one
This but with normal weapons would be pretty sweet and maybe wouldn't completely crash the server
I love that this hits 45 times a second and does 116k dps
lament dagger
lmfaooo
violet nymph
I mean even with good weapons it'd still be tissue paper look at the resistances @odd steeple
lol
violet nymph
i mean
i'm sure someone's gonna make a 35 aps flicker that can live
what's the highest aps flicker possible right now?
odd steeple
It's a LOT higher than this
Soul Eater gives 4% attack speed for kill, basically unlimited attack speed
odd steeple
Yeah, Zerphi's Heart, in a map with 700 monsters
and zerker 40% more
so like 3900% attack speed from just that interaction
violet nymph
doesn't zerphi's heart also require soul ripper
odd steeple
yes and temp chains self-curse and all kinds of stuff
violet nymph
ew
odd steeple
But yeah you'd flicker pretty fast
violet nymph
well let's talk about a build that can actually sustain flicker without ridiculously expensive and annoyingly clunky setups
odd steeple
Yeah so like a 2.1 base APS dual wield claw setup maybe
violet nymph
red trail/golden rule can be sustained purephys with a malevolence unaffected by bleeding watcher's eye
odd steeple
With Blitz and Rage
violet nymph
no conversion necessary
odd steeple
I mean if you're not doing all that much damage per hit you don't have to care
ehh if it's pure phys probably just want to do more damage even if you're scaling attack speed over damage
kindred dagger
Not sure, we have to see in the game but this league looks for now the best since i start to play for like 2-3 years
violet nymph
I have 3 fully planned cyclone builds and 1 in the works still
i'm gonna do pure phys RoA/barrage slayer
lioneye's glare
!pob https://pastebin.com/HRSqZF8q pobhero, naturally
rigid lakeBOT
kindred dagger
new gameplay especialy for melees, and the mecanics feels simple but effective, mass fight for instant reward, no shit delving getting your head knoked in the dark, searching your way in the lost maze of a alzaimer shaper nor any other random betrayal, monster hunter/pokemon and others tuff
violet nymph
and new slayer ascendancy isn't in there
my brother still wants to play cyclone cwc bv lol
not even sure what build would do that well anymore
@violet nymph 100% conversion chieftain bv would prob be fun
oh yes true
odd steeple
@violet nymph Here's a modified version of the CoC build designed to actually do damage
Probably should go conversion with hatred
I can't imagine Malevolence being better than conversion
north dragon
https://youtu.be/Zl9eKbJaPgc u can try this
and still does real damage
to mobs and party members alike
violet nymph
Lol
loud wadi
will summoner builds be a viable way to finish maps in legacy
loud wadi
are spectres getting buffed?
modest cave
i'd go as far as saying srs will be fine too but won't feel as good.
loud wadi
srs?
modest cave
no but spectres are always going to be good
loud wadi
sry im new
modest cave
summoning raging spirit
its like those little skulls you cast
and they do work
it's pretty meh
spectres is pretty top tier and isn't hard to do so either.
tough roost
Summoner Builds are pretty much all viable 🤔
loud wadi
really