leaden storm
vaal winds
#1┃mirage-league
last river
@livid lake Yeah but doesn't "energy shield recharge applies to life" mean that you go from 0 to 100% of your ES in five seconds?
livid lake
no
last river
Has that been clarified?
livid lake
if that was how its made then it would be less than useless
it just says energy shield recharge
recharge is a very specific mechanic
if it was the other way round it would be like: recharge life based on total ES
last river
I'm honestly not sure and I think we're both just speculating here
I mean
There's a lot of precedent for useless shit from GGG that uses ES
https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Soul_Tether https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Mask_of_the_Spirit_Drinker
tame mason
think of it this way... it's just saying ES recharge point to life instead of ES
last river
That's a very ambiguous way of wording that but I see where you're coming from I guess
tame mason
meaning that ES wont recharge ever.. only regen if u have any
life occulist with wicked ward is a possiblity. but we havent see why we gonna go ham on life yet so
last river
Yeah I get your idea of how the mechanic works but tbh I wouldn't put it past ggg to put out something as niche as "you regen life based on your ES"
I mean that exists already in the second item I linked
idk
It's all speculation tbh
tame mason
hmm the hat is a weaker version
normal kraken
look at soul tether Life Leech effects Recover Energy Shield instead while on Full Life
that means max leech recovery is still based on life, but recovers ES
then compare it to ZO's regen Life Regeneration is applied to Energy Shield instead
that means the mechanic applies to ES instead of life, so the regen is based on max ES
low kindle
Btw do life leech effects disappear at full ES with soul tether?
They shouldn't, right
tame mason
gonna google search for reddit answer form mark or something. some1 did clarify the mechanic
low kindle
What I really want to to know is do you count as leeching energy shield with this belt
normal kraken
nope, life leech doesn't dissapear at full ES
and nope, you don't count as leeching ES
you count as leeching life, but that leech recovers ES
low kindle
Why were people so mad over slayer gloves when we had slayer belt for so long
normal kraken
it wasn't slayer belt until 3.6
low kindle
There isn't any version history
finite haven
tame mason
only 0.2% of 95+ player use tether belt
and none are rank 100 just 98... https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds/char/Danjii/Queerhawk?i=0&search=item%3DSoul-Tether weird setup
worldly sapphire
When you incubate an item does that mod get removed after you complete its objective?
tame mason
no1 know yet. but prob like a gem lvl up popup at side bar probably?
normal kraken
before 3.6 soul tether simply made life leech apply to ES at full life
it didn't prevent leech removal at full life/ES
native osprey
my guess was going to be it drops on the ground
livid lake
both uniques linked to prove ES items are trash are actually booth pretty good lul
tired sapphire
I wonder how those new jewels will work with the acrobat branch seems like there is potential there
placid grotto
If it's like the other Jewel, 2 keystones that are identical
tired sapphire
oh i thought every keystone would turn into a unique version
now that i think about it thats probably not viable
quiet geyser
Was there allready a list what they release at wich day?
celest atlas
yes saw some "relase" plan somethere
placid grotto
Release Schedule (Pacific Time)
Teasers every NZ weekday from now until launch
Sunday, June 2: Legion League challenge rewards revealed
Monday, June 3: Synthesis League ends, 3.7 Balance Manifesto
Tuesday, June 4: 3.7.0 Patch Notes, Passive Tree and Item Filter Information
Wednesday, June 5: Complete new/updated skill gem numbers
Thursday, June 6: Patching timeline and (maybe) torrent
Friday, June 7: 3.7 & Legion League PC launch. Please refer to the countdown on www.pathofexile.com to determine the launch time for your timezone.
Monday, June 10: 3.7 & Legion League console launch.
quiet geyser
thx
snow cairn
but what about today D:
native osprey
silver kettle
@snow cairn 2 teasers and a news post
rapid solar
again?
silver kettle
Yeah. And the same every weekday next week
Maybe if we're lucky we'll also get a teaser or two over the weekend
rapid solar
We can count on Bex for that 😄
snow cairn
nice
quartz dome
gonna be expensive as hell though
quartz dome
oh right that uh tempest staff too
gray swan
The new teaser that just dropped, I thought that those jewels change all of the nodes in their circle.
hard hinge
works nicely for things like aegis/the surrender right?
quartz dome
perhaps at least three of the jewels are str/dex/int focused and thus have no minor node effect in that part of the tree
rigid forge
So wait, this one only replaces the keystone?
rapid solar
Maybe it's not a Vaal one
rigid forge
and it doesn't look like it's from the vaal faction
rapid solar
Probably a Templar one?
gray swan
Probably Just thought it would change all the minor nodes at least. Does that mean that ones like this have decent keystone changes but no minor changes when the vaal one changes all of them but no good keystones?
hard hinge
i guess it doesn't change the block cap though so not useful in builds that would cap their block chance anyways
rapid solar
Usually not a thing with staves
you reach like 40-20 easily
but that's about as far as you get
It's great for Enigmatic Defense and Whirling Barrier
hard hinge
yeah just thinking more for builds like aegis glad that hit 85/85 already
vocal yacht
there are lots of builds, that if there wasnt a cap you would get 100
plush zealot
7% on chest actually
gray swan
Yeah but this may be good for builds to get a lot of block will little investment though
rapid solar
Yea it's more for those who don't reach it but have synergies on block
It's also not far from the Staff nodes on the left
rigid forge
the on-block skills have supposedly been buffed as well
rapid solar
I wonder if they replaced RT with this or if it's changed by the Jewel
and the Jewel does something totally different
hard hinge
yeah it just doesn't matter much if you don't have some mechanic that depends on blocking though since you're basically just smoothing out damage intake otherwise
rigid forge
Could be, RT basically feels like a dead keystone at this point
gray swan
Idk, in the baeclast he talked about RT
vocal yacht
@rapid solar was thinking bout that, but like its totally different
rapid solar
RT is pretty dead though
vocal yacht
but u can get to 100% accuracy now
rapid solar
so they might just have removed it
vocal yacht
so its pretty much useless
rapid solar
To be fair ... changing RT to Your hits can't be evaded. Extra damage to critical is halved. Would just work and be decent
vocal yacht
true
rapid solar
True 😄
plush zealot
rt is great for HoA
rapid solar
HoAg you mean?
winter bay
what's the g stand for?
winter bay
ooo
quartz dome
I wonder if this node also makes that block armor but-spells-are-unlucky somewhat... well not 'good' but 'gooder than it is'
gray swan
He said they want to make it so "not everyone has to have res tech"
So I assume that RT is still in just probably changed.
rapid solar
Different historic pretty obvious here
rapid solar
I really wonder what else that jewel does
gray swan
This one specifically looks like nothing.
rapid solar
maybe it just alters Keystones
gray swan
I do not see any changes to minor nodes
rapid solar
but who knows... there are a lot of effects that alter nodes without changing their appearance now
gray swan
yeah but that seems to be the theme with these though
So I feel it will change the look.
rapid solar
True, if RT is still in that spot that is
gray swan
That is true but do keystones usually have flavor text? That is why I thought it was changed by the jewel.
rapid solar
they do
"Great tacticians learn that consistency often trumps potential" - Resolute Technique
gray swan
Ah you are right, I was looking in POB
rapid solar
But yea the flavor texts are very similar
gray swan
What I would honestly like is if the vaal on really just randomly corrupted nodes.
So each one was different and random.
fair prairie
So if you put one of those new jewels In one of the spots near the scion where it would interact with another jewel socket. Would it change what ever jewel you put in it. <Not talking historic as you can only have 1, but how would it interact with other regular jewels.
rapid solar
Since we don't know the effects of all the historic jewels noone knows
but looking at the Vaal jewel screenshots it doesn't look like it affects jewels at all
But... we don't know 😃
fair prairie
the only jewel socket im seeing in the vaal one is the vaal jewel itself
rapid solar
What we know is that you can't enhance Vaaled nodes with a might of the meek in another jewel socket
fair prairie
makes sense would make it too complex imagine all the stuff they would have to add lol
rapid solar
Mark_GGG: This is not quite true. Each of the jewels will "Conquer" passive skills in it's radius (which is a fancy term meaning "these have been changed by this jewel, and no other jewels can change them further" - this has reminder text). Each legion's jewel conquers things in a slightly different way (makes different kinds of changes), but they're all considered Conquering, not Corrupting.
This sounds like they have an effect on all nodes in the radius
fair prairie
I was more interested in a different part of that quote
later in it they say they are reserving the corrupted tag for a future thing
silver kettle
A potential future thing
They like doing that just in case
Have to future proof the naming
rapid solar
Yea, it might never be a thing
fair prairie
yeah well, tools are like weapons. If you have them your going to use them
silver kettle
They made me change the name of Sire of Shards to keep the name I wanted for later use. That was four years ago and they haven't used it yet
native sonnet
Idk, sometimes u see ppl that don’t use their brains /s
rapid solar
That's not sarcasm imho 😄
native sonnet
oo, u have another unique design? Viper
Oh wait, they want to keep the name for their unique
fair prairie
they will when it fits.
violet nymph
I'd love a super expensive fated sire of shards
With like "socketed skill gems supported by level 10 fork" or something
Would be so dumb lol
"Kill aul, the crystal king while holding sire of shards"
Itd turn into "king of shrapnel" or something silly like that
livid apex
"Sovereign of Shards"
pearl wind
Glancing Blows looks cool but I would very much like to see a Stagger/Purify Keystone (or even as base mechanic) in 4.0
lucid stone
What would it do
iron violet
i think they might be talking about the way stagger works in WoW
fair prairie
they are intentionally triggering me now lol. Come on just show us a Melee unique already lol
median wharf
how will BV work with greater spell echo?
tough roost
¯_(ツ)_/¯
wild arch
Maximum aoe firestorm 
median wharf
seems to me that the more spell damage and AoE couldnt apply to BV since all blades deal damage together
if it was still individual blades dealing damage it would work
midnight phoenix
It might work properly
lyric lintel
What would properly be though
median wharf
wouldnt that be improper tho? since non-repeated stacks would get the buffs
violet nymph
totally gonna make a block build this league
with spectral shield throw, shield charge, and tempest shield
with glancing blows
midnight phoenix
U can test it right now i suppose
lyric lintel
How
midnight phoenix
Since i would suggest whatever behaviour it has with this thing
Is prolly pretty similar to whatever behaviour it has with unleash
I know u get +4 stacks but im not sure whether the whole thing gets affected by the unleash less dmg mod
midnight phoenix
If it does its a reasonable inference that u would get the more dmg mod on greater echo
median wharf
and not as individual blades anymore
midnight phoenix
On all the stacks
median wharf
BV doesnt gain unleash stacks
midnight phoenix
As in it doesnt get the less multi?
median wharf
wait i've never used unleash before do you not get stacks in HO?
going into a map now to test
ah mb
my tooltip damage for 4 stacks is the same when i use unleash to get 4 at once and when i summon 4 individually without unleash
midnight phoenix
Then i would suggest greater echo prolly isnt gonna work the way u might want
median wharf
yeah that's what i thought, the aoe and damage wont affect BV at all
midnight phoenix
Ty for testing
cobalt cloud
I wonder what the hit box of dominating blow will be
curious if it melee splash is super needed
eager charm
right now it's good QoL, idk about in 3.7 obviously
uncut vortex
Whats a good league starting melee build for legion. I'm saving flicker strike and cyclone builds after I get comfortable
midnight phoenix
Wait for patch notes
uncut vortex
I mean with the current info on melee, there has to be a good melee gem that works with it
wet plaza
Yes and the answer is the same. Not enough info to tell
spare talon
PatchNotesWhen
lucid haven
fervent thicket
bois, when you open this time lapse and those soldiers stop and cant move, do you need use ability what hit on those stoned soldiers?
it looks like you need use something what hit
like if you use winter orb or something its not going to shoot em becouse those are not active?
tacit swift
from what i saw and assume it looks like each soldier is encased in an "armor" or something and you have to hit it hard enough to break it so that they unfreeze with better mobs/chests taking more hits to unfreeze then the fodder. so winter orb will fire shots at everything around you as if they were normal enemies.
languid path
they become active as long as they're hit, doesn't matter for how much dmg
wild arch
In Ziggy's video a revealed chest needed several hits to be unfrozen
fervent thicket
yes but can you hit those stoned mobs with spell, just like worb or storm brand
wild arch
Why wouldn't you?
languid path
and worb will either be really good, if it can rotate between targets, or really bad, if it lock on to one target forever
fervent thicket
hope it works, maybe i can make my berserker totem build then, i think that will hit em too 😄
fervent thicket
becouse of damage?
wild arch
What damage
fervent thicket
huge damage
wild arch
Berserker has 0 spell synergy
Just go chieftain or at least juggernaut
Unless you're talking about attack totems which would be confusing since you just talked about spells
fervent thicket
nono 😄 my poiont was do those mobs need to be hit. and im not sure do those some abilitys hit becouse you cant handle it same way like reave? direct is allways when you point your cursor
and winter orb is shooting very random cant handle it all ?
last flame
Is there a chat going on here? Can I join you
fervent thicket
sure yo can
last flame
okay,thanks
bitter ledge
Hey guys
Has there been any speculation on the new movement skills?
I feel like they will be available after the "breaking some eggs" mission
But I really feel like that that is too late already
Because from what we see, it is just a short-ranged dash
quiet geyser
Its not ment as a travel skill
It has like 5 sec CD.
The movment skills share cooldown.
bitter ledge
Where can you find that information?
native sonnet
all current movement skills are unlocked at brutus, also breaking the eggs is mudflats (not sure if that's the 1 u meant to say) which is super early
bitter ledge
Yeah.
Enemy at the gate: First clearing ability.
Mercy Mission: Simple support gems.
Breaking some eggs: Secondary ability.
Prison: More support gems.
Prisoners gate: Movement skills.
Merveils Caverns: Active gems.
native sonnet
in ziggys vid, he was using dash during brutus fight
bitter ledge
So, putting the short-ranged dash alongside the other options like Flame Dash, Leap Slam, Shield Charge and Whirling Blades seems a bit stupid
native sonnet
so presumably we get it before killing brutus (unlike the other movement gems)
bitter ledge
Yeah, so around Breaking Some Eggs, I think
Should really have an impact on races
Even if it is on a 5 second cooldown
But I highly doubt that it is 5 seconds
I'll check ziggyDs video when I get home
bitter ledge
To see how long the recharge is
But I also wonder how the melee rework will function
If it is like Torchlight, I will scream
bitter goblet
Did they say how rare the historic jewels will be?
bitter ledge
Chris mentioned that they will be rare, but not how rare
It's probably best to assume that you can only get them from the 5-way battle
bitter goblet
aight
wild arch
@fervent thicket you just need to damage the enemies
To put it simply: you need to kill their low hp shell to unfreeze them
And I'm sure that after breaking the shell they'll be untargettable until the timer ends
There's no way they haven't thought about minions and auto target skills
burnt finch
Wonder how ED+Cont will do to trigger those "shells"
patent canyon
if they keep it same way as shown in video it will be horrible since it wont be able to spread
quiet geyser
i hope if you reduce the hp of the "shells" to 0 it will trigger on death effects.
other wise theres no reason to play Essence drain next leauge
And it would also destroys skills like "arc" or generaly chain effects, because they will keep hitting the same targets
wild arch
Well then maybe y'all should stop playing dumb spell builds and do melee in the melee league
tacit swift
imagine flicker strike just targeting one and not moving at all
north dragon
imagine having to wait for 14 days
balmy dust
Imagine having to wait for the console patch and not be okay with the extra three days
balmy dust
re: AI targeting, I wish I could eventually tell minions to target barrels. Randomly smashed one on a low character, Chaos Orb. How many Exalted have we missed this way?
quiet geyser
How will the targeting on the Zombie Corpses work (Akukuna's will)
Will they just get removed ?
Take dmg?
So overall question will deatonate dead and minion Instability work.
mental apex
I would assume so
Wait
Detonate dead.
That would be epic. Walking corpses.... This is huge.
quiet geyser
Nah more like if Deatonate dead and minion instablity work togheter, but iassume consumed corpses are just removed, so they will never get lowlife
eager charm
not necessarily, it doesnt say corpses are destroyed so DD + MI could possibly work
P.S. mods already thought of this :^)
steep plover
Cyclone - CwC - raise zombie - volatile dead + 2 dmg supports
wild arch
Disgustang
wild arch
For real tho, if anyone wants to do a legit combat necromancer, you need 5 link cwdt unearth with all the extra projectiles, cwdt offering, and a skill setup with offset self damage
An easy example is any melee skill with hiltless and over 100 life on hit
steep plover
agreed
the only legitimate thing i can see the item used for is zombie builds who need to resurrect in a boss fight
when no corpses are available
pretty niche tho
i'll tell you what would work
2 player party. Player one support necro with zombies that act as corpses. Player 2 spell cast focused detonate dead / cremation build
that would synergize super well
toxic flint
wild arch
Yeah... just use bane
steep plover
tbh easiest might just be a necro build that uses the zombies for pack clear, and on bosses you just use vaal DD
mental apex
Combine with montregul, give zombies an additional 5k HP base
fallen tulip
Yes Yes Yes
tired sapphire
that new steelskin spell looks like its going to be pretty insane with a formless inferno
wild arch
In what way? 🤔
tough roost
It scales it's Mitigation relative to your armour, I think
I know that the new Molten Shell does that, at least
wild arch
Doesn't molten shell do that?
tough roost
It might be both, not too too sure
wild arch
I thought steelskin was just supposed to be big mitigation for a short moment
tough roost
¯_(ツ)_/¯
steep plover
@wild arch i got that impression too. It was like 'if you dont want to dash out the way, you can pop steelskin to mitigate a large proportion, but it only last a short amoutn of time'
might be good if your stuck in an AoE you cant outrange
wild arch
Or just make it permanent with temp chains
wild arch
Isn't that molten shell?
silver kettle
It was both, pretty sure
wild arch
Steelskin's tooltip was literally just 75% damage reduction for 1.5 seconds on a 3 second cooldown
And it shares cooldown with some skills
silver kettle
Okay I just rewatched that bit of Baeclast. Steelskin has a cap that scales with gem level. Molten Shell has a cap that scales with armour
wild arch
Ok that makes more sense
lone minnow
Do we know at this point if we have to manually click the soldiers or will area-of-effect skills trigger them?
native sonnet
aoe dmg is fine, not manual click
wild arch
Come on people you just 'kill' them like any other mob and then repeat it when they unfreeze 
fair prairie
wonder how much time we have, hopefully its ample time and you don't need some insane meta build to participate
wish they would do survival type league mechanics for a change instead of gotta go fast timed ones.
tacit swift
well wasn't delve as much survival type as it was gotta go fast type
lone minnow
Is armor going to be more powerful this league?
tacit swift
i'd say there is a good chance armour is getting a touch up this league but i don't think we have had any word yet about it
wet plaza
🎲 mebbe
wild arch
They said they're reworking bleed and poison
Maybe bleed will finally be affected by armour 
silver kettle
Well just the massive Molten Shell buff is already a big armour buff too
livid apex
100% guarantee the meta is ngamahu chieftain with cyclone cwc molten shell
silver kettle
Surely Molten Shell is going to have a long cooldown now
wet plaza
Time to dust off vms
languid torrent
What's the change to molten shell...I didn't see it in any teasers and patch notes aren't out yet.
silver kettle
Well hold on. The main thing is that now instead of bonus armour it gives you massive DR
And then the amount of damage it can absorb before breaking scales with your armour
languid torrent
Huh, it might be useful then
silver kettle
Certainly sounds like it
patent canyon
intention was to not only make it as reaction to incoming damage but also make armor useful against bosses
silver kettle
That said, I don't recall Jonathan specifying but I assume it's only phys DR
If it's anything, then wowee that's good
patent canyon
i think both of them are just all damage reduction
languid torrent
Phys DR is kind of meh when most bosses do elemental damage.
silver kettle
Yeah I suppose steelskin looked to be from the tooltip
snow cairn
you can scale ele resistances a lot easier than phys
silver kettle
But man wouldn't this just make armour stacking ridiculous
spice comet
Odd question here but kinda relevant looking into cyclone cwc stuff do we know if cyclone would be interrupted by something like bodyswap?
languid torrent
Ele damage is balanced around already having 75% res though
snow cairn
what's the uptime on it though?
yeah but just boosting it to 80% is 20% less damage than what 75% would take
silver kettle
We don't know the uptime yet and it does depend on that
patent canyon
1.5 with 3 cd?
snow cairn
molten boosting ele res would be weird
silver kettle
@spice comet Bodyswap doesn't interrupt other channelled skills so presumably won't interrupt cyclone
patent canyon
can technically look at vod
spice comet
Interesting thanks man
lone minnow
how will Vaal Molten Shell change?
patent canyon
wasnt shown
languid torrent
Might try to eek in Molten Shell then
snow cairn
molten shell is instant cast right?
languid torrent
Yes
snow cairn
but VMS isn't?
languid torrent
I want to say VMS is too...but I haven't used it since the change
[[Vaal Molten Shell]]
lyric burrow
id guess yea it is but have to wait to see
languid torrent
Ehh, bot isn't here
wet plaza
there is no bot for wiki stuff here
lyric burrow
https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Vaal_Molten_Shell i had wiki up already
languid torrent
It's instant according to wiki
lyric burrow
Im excited for legion, i get to dust off my Glass tank finally
lyric burrow
im doing melee and making a bow. had planned to make a armageddon brand archer but life and not liking synth prevented me
i just need asenraths and the socketed quiver
lone minnow
@languid torrent I believe dominating blow is also going to be changed up a bit based off of everything they have shown so far so you could use that however I'm not sure
full musk
Those are both dirt cheap
lyric burrow
i prefer to use the fun stuff, hope to get a set of CYbils claws also for a 3rd build
languid torrent
Yeah, if dominating blow gets reworked a bit it could be decent. As is, it's basically a 5L
And you have to attack quickly on bosses or your minions despawn
noble pecan
so... with flat damage being added to skills... why would i ever use a two hander? this has be a bit worried that two handers are going to be in an even worse spot than they were
low kindle
Heavy hitting, more weapon range
noble pecan
but thats still not gonna be worth the trade off of doubling the flat damage added from a skill
low kindle
Why is it doubling
noble pecan
whether you hit 9 times a second with two rapiers or 4.5 times a second with a big axe, your added damage is x per hit
so if cyclone adds 75 flat phys per hit
attack speed is gonna be ridiculous this league
low kindle
The difference in attack speed is gonna be 50% at most
Also, the better your weapon is, the less relevant added phys becomes
noble pecan
if a 2h axe has 1k pdps
and 2 1h rapiers have 500 pdps
and cyclone adds say... 100 pdps
and cyclone hits twice as much with dual wield
that would be 1200 vs 1100 with no modifiers
native sonnet
errr, u dont add 2x1h dmg like that
dualwielding will alternate
but u do get the dw bonus
rapid solar
I think Cyclone is not a great example of a skill for this kind of calculation
noble pecan
the point is, you get the flat damage added every hit, and youre hitting more
rapid solar
Especially with the changes coming and us having no idea how it will interact as a channeling skill with dual wielding
noble pecan
2 handers are already under utilized, and this is making dual wielding even more powerful lol
lyric burrow
me either, plus with the new melee splash effects alot of the known dmg formula might get tweaks
rapid solar
I suspect them adding flat damage to skills means they will reduce weapon damage
noble pecan
they said they arent doing that
lyric burrow
maybe maybe not, de are known to be tricky
noble pecan
in the baeclast
rapid solar
do we have a screenshot of any of the skill gems used in the video somewhere?
patent canyon
only cyclone
noble pecan
other than a level 1 heavy strike, i dont think so lol
lyric burrow
makes me glad no matter the changes i will adapt and thrive
silver kettle
This seems like a very premature assessment. We have no idea what other changes are being made. Hopefully some of them will sufficiently incentivise 2h
noble pecan
oh we got a cyclone pic?
spice comet
I need to go find this now bahaha
noble pecan
this is a legion-mechanics discussion thread, almost everything is a premature assessment
lyric burrow
we look at the data given and fill in the blank spots with hope
low kindle
There is no way cyclone gets 100 flat phys, given its 200% more as
The real question is
rapid solar
Double Strike from Baeclast
low kindle
Will you deal damage as your weapon travels
rapid solar
oh it doesn't even have anything
noble pecan
in baeclast, he talked about doublestrike was one of the only skills used because of the flat damage to bleeding targetes
its 113-169 flat phys
rapid solar
The effectiveness of added damage probably reduces the damage it adds to itself
lyric burrow
Diminishing returns is soemthing ggg loves to use
noble pecan
yeah, but i guess my whole thought process was, it seems like they need weapons themselves to have the added damage modifiers rather than skills, so two handers can scale flat phys to a % akin to the % difference of attainable attack speeds
between dual wielding and 2 handers
rapid solar
He said something about top tier weapons being slightly worse than before
and lower and average tiers being better
which makes sense for leveling
patent canyon
that is the flat damage on gems
when you get flat damage top tier weapon doesnt make THAT much difference anymore compared to avg one
noble pecan
flat damage is massive though... the t1 flat phys damage on a weapon is like 22-44 isnt it? even adding 50 would be nuts
normal kraken
flat phys on weapons is locally increased by other affixes
local flat phys >>>>> added flat phys
noble pecan
ok so if you have a 50% increased physical damage and a t1 roll averaging 33 damage, that would be about = to 50 added from the skill lol
normal kraken
also they are adding flat phys on gems but decreasing dmg effectiveness
noble pecan
regardless of what the actual damage is, my point is the flat added damage is the same whether you hit slow or fast, so fast hits, AKA the already overused dual wield builds, are getting buffed more than two handers
spice comet
Unless there is something significantly changed to 2h that they haven't released yet
Yeah
spice comet
Wait why?
patent canyon
cyclone
spice comet
.... buffed would be a stretch
rapid solar
Cyclone doesn't have added damage in the Baeclast
spice comet
Cyclone sure not the axe itself
rapid solar
but it's only level 1
patent canyon
indirect buffs
spice comet
I mean kinda ig? But you could say that about any weapon using cyclone soooo
patent canyon
soooo technically 2h buff
doesnt make them usable outside cyclone by the looks of it so far tho
maybe if they change weapon range
and make 2h give massive boost
spice comet
I mean id argue that cyclone will be vastly stronger with duel wield than 2h unless there is some change we haven't seen yet
spice comet
Even with just straight up range difference its still not really a reason to choose over duel wield in terms of dps
wild arch
But seriously why aren't people doing it
fair prairie
mostly because for a long time 2handed weapons in melee been a bit meh, hopefully the mechanic changes fixes that
wild arch
Still waiting to see if they remembered that sweep exists
fair prairie
I just want a few good new melee uniques.
fair prairie
well it got changed a little at the very least it gets the new physical damage added with each level
wild arch
Meanwhile the new bladestorm is just straight up better
I don't think flat damage will save it if it's still a 2h skill with 10% less attack speed
rapid solar
Bladestorm seems super slow =/
wild arch
Maybe they scale with levels or something
We know nothing about it apart from that little preview video which for all we know could have been done without supports with white items
If they're still going with the powercreep trend then it should be the next op thing
fair prairie
imho skills like that that move slower then your movement speed is bad, may as well just choose a closer range attack that is high in damage and you will clear faster
personally don't know why anyone would choose bladestorm over say cyclone for example
wild arch
Do the darudes even matter since you'll just oneshot trash with the main swing
rapid solar
They coulda just made it so depending on the stance you're in an attack enables it and it stays at your feet for x seconds
wild arch
It's guaranteed to have some extra stuff with gladiator
wild arch
^
wild arch
But we all know that reverse kb max aoe cyclone is the way to go 
full musk
I want to know more about the bleed circle it leaves
fair prairie
bloodstorm
patent canyon
hope so
full musk
they haven't said
wild arch
Why would you want some weak little storm to bleed if you can do heavy hits instead
full musk
if it does it's basically jsut poison but physical
wild arch
So many questions
patent canyon
it could have other stuff
full musk
yeah, the bleed circle is an enigma
wild arch
But then what about poison
patent canyon
like increased bleed damage for enemies in cloud
full musk
maybe a whole new mechanic added to bleed
wild arch
Both are getting changes
wild arch
The next 2 weeks are gonna be torture 
spice comet
Yup
fair prairie
not too much yet tbh, nothing revealed so far besides the new league mechanic has really impressed me much.
lyric burrow
mechanic alone has me happy with league, everything revealed after just gravy
quiet geyser
If they dont change something about masters and gathering recpies, i probebly will stop playing after 1 week or so
fair prairie
whys that? Gathering recipes is mostly faster then it was back when you had to level the masters to get them
buoyant heron
Except for veiled mods 😬
buoyant heron
Oh yeah and T3, but they said they're taking them out of T3 rooms
placid grotto
Good
fair prairie
yeah veiled mods I agree can be annoying but even then atleast for me getting the recipes is faster now then it was
placid grotto
Though how does sharing/selling recipes work? Does only 1 person get credit it does everyone?
Though is it faster? I thought Rotas were quite a bit faster
Especially for high-end recipes
buoyant heron
Some of the really high end ones, like the pale council ones, are slower than rotas but much faster solo
placid grotto
Which is the pale council?
buoyant heron
Prefixes can't be changed, suffixes can't be changed, multiple mods, forget the other 2
outer rose
AHHHHHHHH ❤ "Double Strike (and Multistrike) will allow you to cancel animation just after one swing"
lyric burrow
saw that coming and yays, lost count of deaths cause i couldnt dash out of the way due to that
frigid raptor
ms with ancestral and multistrike feels awkard rn on leveling with low attack speed, if i press the skill i kinda commit for the next 3 seconds to just make the animation 
looking forward 3.7 <3
proven wadi
Oh yeah this stuff might make that one 2h hammer that guarantees crits viable
fair prairie
Zerker before and After Patch 3.7 image has been found. https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/793109568953837196/16DDBC91B165C664738B1519EA1E8F9B4F312099/
midnight phoenix
in b4 new zerker is worse than old zerker
proven wadi
Oh no pls
scarlet sage
so will rage have applications for more than just a specific subset of builds?
silver kettle
it sounds like it will still be somewhat niche, but we don't know exactly how many skills generate it and how broad they are
if it's easy enough to throw on a rage generating aura and then just use Berserk every once in a while that's probably going to be pretty widespread
wild arch
And if the basic rage still gives attack speed
scarlet sage
would be cool if bloodrage did something to generate rage as well as frenzy charges
wild arch
scarlet sage
oh, mayble there'll be something that converts a portion of self bleed into rage?
tidal ruin
last river
Well there's no downside to rage anymore and we have that hook skill that gives you rage so I'd bet that that rage is gonna be everywhere
It'll be like frenzy charges where if you want them you can just have them with no downside
olive shadow
can't wait to see them berserk BUILD !!!
mental apex
I think rage should have a small downside....
midnight phoenix
we'll see how it looks
digital ivy
The downside of rage is having to build it up
covert helm
I expect that rage will just be additive damage and that Berserker and other items will add functions or scaling from Rage, or bonus passive effects.
leaden wraith
i mean like
the downside is also having to find a way to generate rage if you dont innately have it
its fine imo
since we're going to have to outweight what mana reservations etc we want
wispy crest
Sweep Zerker with Vaal Double Strike for bosses. Sounds viable ?
livid lake
won't know until patch notes.
wispy crest
I meant if the idea makes sense
midnight phoenix
Wont know until patch notes
Zerker and sweep are in line for mechanical changes so until u know what they will look like u cant say
brittle meadow
Melee PepeLaugh
tame mason
2h buff teaser pls or zerker ascendency reveal that let him dualwield 2h
spare talon
lol
tame mason
they have to be something wild since they made rage avaialble to every1 else
ember lodge
Has it been confirmed if we need to kill the trapped mobs or simply tag them with damage yet?
rapid solar
It looked like they can take more than one hit in some cases
It's not really clear if that is damage or just hit x times
but hitting would be bad for so many builds so it's most likely damage
What we don't know yet but hopefully is the case is whether breaking them triggers on death effects like proliferation
rapid solar
Is it a kill?
tame mason
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX1Pj2d2Zlc tag. only kill treasure look like it
wild arch
It could just be destroyed on kill like flask worms
tame mason
kill mob to not deal with em alive after?
rapid solar
Wait, is that Onslaught linked to bladestorm?
unfortunately not
He gets onslaught from something
wild arch
Looks like a raider
rapid solar
Then it's very likely that it counts as a kill
tame mason
Melee skills now have a longer base stun duration and cause stuns more easily. Spells have a shorter base stun duration. Physical damage (from attacks or spells) causes stuns more easily than elemental/chaos damage. first time noticing this
rapid solar
so ED Contagion is dead?
wild arch
patent canyon
ED was dead for long time now in my eyes after aoe nerfs ¯_(ツ)_/¯
violet nymph
I think add in corruption for scarabs and map sets (sacrifice of dawn etc). Also I think a stash needs to be added to the Menagerie, it gets annoying having to drop off items all the way back at the hideout. Finally, when are we going to see a Prophecy stash tab? I'm a gambler for Gawds sakes!
Also finally finally let us corrupt flasks!!!!
low gyro
SO Disfavor will skyrock in price again this league
With dope Cyclone
rapid solar
Probably the same for Voidforge
fair prairie
Roll that beautiful new Legion footage
low gyro
Yeah if rlly all Melee skills get some flat phys dmg, then the increase will be kind of huge even if the numbers aren't that amazing (with something like Voidforge)
rapid solar
It looks like destroying shells doesn't count as killing
which would mean contagion can't spread
If it does everything's bueno
You could always use Bane or Soul Rend for the League Encounters... but meh
wild arch
Just go melee am I right?
low gyro
yeah just do spinning in circles like all the other players.
rapid solar
Will have to see how it feels... the only Melee skill I ever enjoyed playing was Blade Flurry
fair prairie
well I mean so far if you want to try new uniques don't go melee.
rapid solar
Yea 😄
wild arch
The uniques just feel like consolation prizes for spells
wild arch
I'm doing melee necro
low gyro
cyclone melee zombiemancer
low gyro
bone helmet
rapid solar
Which skill though?
low gyro
heavy strike 😄
wild arch
Gonna achieve speeds not even berserker or raider can dream of
low gyro
yeah heavy strike is well know for its amazing aoe clear on maps
violet nymph
@strange laurel
idle wedge
"critical damage against you is lucky" means they hit with "luck" or that you are lucky, hence they crit for less
dusty cove
violet nymph
That new one one isnt from a vaal jewel!!
rigid scaffold
Yeah; it's from the same one as the double-block faction
native osprey
it's you deal and you are dealt the highest of two rolls
livid apex
nah I think double-block is karui and this is maraketh
torpid sonnet
Yeah, the jewel rings are different colours
idle wedge
ohhh
livid apex
this is literally jugg: the jewel
violet nymph
Also going to point out: only the keystone changed at least icon size
torpid sonnet
Hmm yeah
violet nymph
Wise*
torpid sonnet
If the non-vaal jewels only change keystones they are gonna be pretty garbage for the most part
violet nymph
Eh depends on keystones
torpid sonnet
But it could be that they do add stuff to the other nodes, but its only the vaal jewel that changes node art
true bridge
I've seen people say it could just depend on the seed whether or not certain node types are effected
proven wadi
Hmm these things are looking crazy
kindred dagger
Those new jewel are really interesting, you sacrifice on jewel socket in tree of usual HP and stuff for a new effect
brittle bobcat
Is "Helmet" the name for the whole slot, or does this only affect hats with "Helmet" in the name? 😛
lime pivot
Probs the whole slot
kindred dagger
Nice try 
wild arch
Great combo with bringer of rain
fair prairie
it would tempt me if it wasn't for the lack of a helmet.
minor jungle
if only it was not using body armour
then you could just use like, bringer of rain with it
for absolute gladiator theme
midnight phoenix
Flavor is worse
This keystone is literally
Cant use helmets. Get punched in the head a lot
I mean how do u beat that flavor
tame mason
Wear brass dome and go crit lightnining
languid path
Arc Mine liked your post
midnight phoenix
Its a trek for arc mines
turbid quartz
😂 😂
ember lodge
Permanent diamond flask in a jewel, frankly i'm surprised the downside isn't heavier 😛
low kindle
As if life builds weren't low enough on life so they needed to make people struggle to get 5k life
silver kettle
Hey it's more progress towards the 0 socket build
native sonnet
Kaoms heart + roots + grey spire + new jewel/passive
Now we just need something to disable/no socket gloves
low kindle
Tombfist or command of the pit
native sonnet
And use thief’s taming, gotta make sure u r not having a 5l from hungry loop
low kindle
Thief's taming 
leaden wraith
thief's torment, but you recover instead of gain
rocky bridge
snow cairn
assassin no damage perma stun build
violet nymph
Instead of that: you can not crit, but have stun threshold reduction
analog flame
They are trying to have something replace/stand along side abyssus? I don’t dislike it
wild arch
Stay strong 
frigid raptor
how much do you guys think that the corruption jewel price will be after the first month?
wild arch
Depends on how good it is
carmine owl
Matters on the jewel
I wouldnt be surprised if a meta jewel comes around that costs multiple ex
While some of the lower tier things we've seen might cost only a few chaos, unless ofc they effect different keystones in different ways then idk
@frigid raptor
violet nymph
Exiles! What would you like to see NEW in Legion?
knotty echo
analog flame
Hmmm idk reave is strong and fun already, I like dot builds but I like melee so making bleed as good as Or close to ED contagion or viper strike poison buffs
rapid solar
Viper Strike already got buffed by the fact that you now hit more than one enemy at once
at least somewhat
I wonder how good it might feel leveling... the dps potential on it is already huge
But I reckon with the current animation it will be tough to hit more than 3 enemies
ivory nimbus
I mean it still has to compete with Storm Brand
doesn't change that you'll have to stop and hit things
violet nymph
And this is why cyclone, bladestorm, and flicker strike seem to be the big winners this patch
Bladestorm looks like it has a quick cast that hits around it while also leaving something that hits. So it lets you just keep going. While the other two are movement skills
velvet palm
Flickerstrike
lucid spire
flicker is fun but backtracking is not
violet nymph
Needs more coc :^)
fallen tulip
What was wrong about its mechanics?
rapid solar
Damage points and delays
it just doesn't feel right at all
but maybe that gets improved
velvet palm
what delays..?
rapid solar
it always seems like you deal damage 0.5 sec after you reach the location
velvet palm
No..?
rapid solar
I don't know ... it was about 2 months ago and I played it to yellow maps
didn't take detailed notes
All I remember is that it didn't feel good at all
patent canyon
but have you tried fixing it?
velvet palm
put some flextape on it
rapid solar
I mainly followed what everyone else was doing and had pretty good gear at that point
more attack speed didn't fix it ... that's what I mostly tried
patent canyon
so you kinda didn't try
rapid solar
What else is there to try?
tight path
Do we know if Vaal cyclone is changed from stationary?
silver kettle
not yet
tight path
Alright, hopefully they change it aswell!
violet nymph
Uwu
bitter goblet
will synthesis be added as a master in legion?
violet nymph
No
bitter goblet
ok
fallen tulip
Vaal Cyclone and Bloodstorm
young forge
So, im pretty hyped about legion, which build are u guys gonna do?
patent canyon
I will play crit MoM patch notes
violet nymph
@young forge obviously cyclone and all the variations of it possible
young forge
ye alright, I wanna do cyclone too, ive never done it before
can u do cyclone with some of the rage skills or
violet nymph
I already was a fan of BV, which is smaller aoe than cyclone so can say it should be fun
Yes
@young forge https://youtu.be/dDfd-5Xlwh4
rapid solar
Cyclone looks super good 😄 But that's actually the issue... so many people will be playing it
violet nymph
Should check out the beserk skill used in that build.
young forge
ye it looks rly fun
violet nymph
@rapid solar i mean the good thing. Its versatile so itemizing shouldnt be too expensive.
Only if one of the builds sees more plan than the rest
Then just avoid that one
rapid solar
True. But we all know how some weapons will just jump from the 1-10c they're worth now to the same price in exalts
violet nymph
True
rapid solar
I really can't imagine Voidforge or Disfavour being less than 5ex for quite a while
violet nymph
Also cyclone hit sounds are orgasmic
rapid solar
That's actually why I'm planning on going for some kind of boss killer 😄
rapid solar
What's going to be better CwC or CoC Cyclone?
violet nymph
Coc if you have the gear
rapid solar
It has a lower cooldown, right?
violet nymph
Basicly cwc is for during the time you are getting good gear. And yes
violet nymph
AS and crit needed. Which can be costly
rapid solar
That is a lot of investment yea
violet nymph
So cwc is the "im scaling still" while coc is "im scaled and ready to eat you alive"
rapid solar
Gonna be fun triggering multiple spells with dual cospri's or stuff like that
Speaking of Cospri's ... that'll go up in price to I guess
violet nymph
Im going to do purifying flame or might not considering that the aoe is so large that even my purifying flame cant hit the edge of my range if i buff up
rapid solar
Frostbolt Ice Nova Mathil style? 😄
rapid solar
PF never really impressed me
Especially since you can't hit the same target twice with beam and explosion
rapid solar
I guess I'm comparing it to all the meta skills that have been out there and it just feels clunky
mhm I tried it too
rapid solar
BV got outclassed way too hard by Winter Orb... but so did all other spells
but it's just very similar in style
violet nymph
Yeah. i still preferred bv over worb
Unleash support made my uptime 100% at 10 stacks
rapid solar
It's way easier to control and has a higher damage potential on everything but trickster I guess
Oh that's cool, I haven't played around much with Unleash
violet nymph
Unleash for bv is perfect as it doesn't give you the standard less modifier like it does other skills
Its literally just cast 4 stacks instantly
violet nymph
its actually faster than casting with faster casting and spell echo combined
violet nymph
3.5 seconds.
Which is enough for you to get to 9 stacks and then go up again
The qol for casting is why. You can keep stacks up without worrying about recharging and risking getting hit
rapid solar
Yea 4 stacks super fast seems good
the initial build up is slightly slower
makes sense 😃
rapid solar
Yea build up and then rush 😃
violet nymph
Yup.
violet nymph
Eh i dont like summons at all
rapid solar
It's not really a summoner
rapid solar
Hitting about 2.5 mil Shaper DPS with just 3 pieces of gear and a decent tree is really good though
violet nymph
Eh but requires me to care?
rapid solar
Sure but it's something you could put on a cyclone necro 😄
violet nymph
Cyclone soul rend
rapid solar
Leaving clouds of death and fire bombs
violet nymph
Pure phys cyclone
rapid solar
I wonder which Skills will get nerfed
WOrb is pretty obvious
I still somewhat expect Storm Brand
but to some extent Bane and Soul Rend too
rapid solar
HoAg might get a small damage nerf
Overall the game is pretty balanced when you're not considering winter orb
Even Cyclone / Molten Strike up there
The only thing missing are other melee skills and that's what they're addressing now 😃
violet nymph
Even if cyclone's numbers are meh. Just the raw chunkiness of the hit sound makes me feel like id enjoy it
Most other skills i need heralds to enjoy
rapid solar
Yea the skills that actually make you work are less liked
Which makes sense 😄
Heralds, Explosions, huge AoE, auto targeting or off screening projectiles are the favourites
violet nymph
Oh no, i like hearlds literally cuz of the visual and auditory feedback they provide
Not cuz the raw dmg
If you had to play purifying flame without herald of ash. The skill would feel like it hits like tissue paper
Even tho it hits hard
rapid solar
Seems like responsiveness will get a huge update with this patch
Really looking forward to it
wet plaza
good but not as good as ballista thwomps :3
rapid solar
I always wanted Siege Ballistas to be good
wet plaza
its decent enough but not budget friendly
rapid solar
Could never quite make it work
wet plaza
my last iteration was at 180-200k x6 mostly cold
thats before the buff to hyrris chest in incursion flashback
rapid solar
Hierophant probably has the higher damage output there
Definitely interesting and probably endgame viable 😃
wet plaza
i liked tailwind for placement speed and blink arrow
but yeah
this one is my favorite iteration after the poison one in 2.x
wet plaza
how?
rapid solar
Way less damage on abyss jewels
wet plaza
patch notes will tell us
karmic bay
Do we have any info about if they gonna do anything else with rage except removing the life drain?
rapid solar
It's been mentioned a few times but I don't know if there's really been more info
karmic bay
Alright alright. And how about the new skill Bladestorm, think the storms you leave behind will be able to trigger coc?
patent canyon
highly doubt it tho
karmic bay
Part of me wants it to be true, but another part knows that it would get crazy real fast as you could just stack up a couple on a boss and trigger like there is no tomorrow
also while clearing you would just bounce around and cast shit everywhere
violet nymph
Im waiting for Summer Orb, SORB!!
fallen tulip
So i wonder if cyclones hitbox will be like an aura, or if it will be a beam spinning around you
Depending on that Im gonna make cwc bv
olive salmon
It appears to be like an aura. I think it still deals damage every X seconds to enemies in its range.
@karmic bay a skill called berserk was mentioned that drains your rage in exchange for temporary buffs
What melee skills do y'all think are gonna be best for tagging Legion mobs?
rapid solar
"Berserker has been renamed to Herbalist" 😄
Depends on the damage needed
it might just be a movement skill
olive salmon
Assuming it's 1 damage per mob
olive salmon
Hmm. I'll have to re-watch the trailer when I get home
rapid solar
I'd assume Reave will be real good
olive salmon
Ooh yeah. For sure. I'm hoping wild strike will cut it
rapid solar
Tec Slam is another staple
olive salmon
Oh yeah, that's a big aoe
north dragon
someone fastforward the time
runic eagle
what does rage do again?
patent canyon
increasing attack speed
and additional interactions with some skills gaining stuff consuming charges
that we dont know about just yet
north dragon
rage is when league starts and everyone starts raging about how legion sucks
tiny flint
The consuming skill gives more damage, more attack speed, and more movement soeed
For a duration
I hope there's an aura or something
To build rage
patent canyon
by the looks of it will be aura
tame mason
new aura for rage / melee / physical yea. at least 1 of them maybe more
red pulsar
they said the playstyle is supported by one aura and one support gem
violet nymph
Animation cancel is a plus for me.
Did they also mentioned bosses
Is there any upcoming changes to the bosses?
fair prairie
animation cancel is amazing, although I suspect there will be an adjustment period for some. Gotta learn to wait a few else risk cancling your attack
But I also suspect people will do like they did in Warcraft when it was an issue and cancel their animations just after their attacks land to begin the next attack to get a free hit and maximize their damage output
rapid solar
From what Jonathan said I reckon the game almost does that for you with queueing
fair prairie
guess they figured people will do it anyways just make it so its part of the system, that's pretty cool of them.
violet nymph
I can imagine how this would affect many of the melee builds.
With rage and all that.
blissful cargo
Would something like CwC cyclone + worb work?
rapid solar
both are channeling skills
you can't make one channeling skill cast another
CwC Cyclone + Blade Vortex would though
blissful cargo
Dang. Was hoping for something with a bit of range to add to cyclone for Legion
rapid solar
I wonder how CwC Cyclone + Frostbolt with Frost Nova in Cospri's would look
copper kernel
not very good
violet nymph
@rapid solar only the coc version would be decent
rapid solar
Triggered Frost Nova wouldn't go on Frostbolts?
blissful cargo
I really enjoyed my cyclone build despite synthesis so something that'll buff it will be nice 😃
rapid solar
you don't need coc with cospri's
violet nymph
The coc is faster and triggers more often