tooldev-general

[frigid nova]

if at least a bandaid fix

[simple ravine]

heh

there's a single threaded php thing in the mix

they could start with doing something about that

and perhaps use something smart, like kafka

[ornate gale]

I was mostly reacting to Rettiks 'looking for answers in the darkness' - I assume no one is actually happy about the vocal minority (?) spouting nonsense back at GGG

if you except the couple guys who are having fun reading conspiracy theories

so there's a decent chance they have a plan in mind and/or in the works but simply think its too early to communicate about it for whatever reason - PR or else

[simple ravine]

There would be no harm in saying "We're looking into it"

[ornate gale]

and they'll just let the guys chill out a bit before puncturing the abcess once and for all

[grave wren]

stop the river

enforce ssf

who's with me

[ornate gale]

lmao

[simple ravine]

enforce trade chat

[ornate gale]

shard people randomly into private leagues - group SSF for everyone

[simple ravine]

I now know what I will do on my vacation when there are rainy days

*evil laugh*

I might even let you index it

for tacos of course

[ornate gale]

hmmm yes please let me index - what

[simple ravine]

it's hush hush

give it another week, and I think the problem will solve itself when more people quit

[grave wren]

best solution

just sit it out

[ornate gale]

hence my 'they'll let the guys chill out'

I mean the player count looks like an RC discharge every league

maybe they even 'have' to wait for the active player counts to lower to try out some stuff on prod

[simple ravine]

looks like slightly less churn rate this league

also imagine the money boost they must've gotten when they introduced the game to so many new players with the korea launch

hire a rockstar developer

[ornate gale]

as I said to a customer once
we can fix your bug for free - by shutting the server down

[grave wren]

time to move to nz @simple ravine

[simple ravine]

meh

i draw boxes with lines inbetween them nowadays

but everything has its price I guess

https://giphy.com/gifs/dollars-amount-sEULHciNa7tUQ

VB6 until death!

[grave wren]

https://vvvv.org/

[wind garden]

we should start our own trade site that works using screenshots of items and image recognition!

[grave wren]

can we make it ssf only

[wind garden]

we could have cool stats like screenshots per second

[grave wren]

pixels per minute

[wind garden]

yaaa

ppm always sounds good

[simple ravine]

this is how they want u to program nowadays

then u have Microsoft Flow

[grave wren]

looks like sap

but more boxy

[simple ravine]

dont ever utter that word here again

shivers

MOFASA

[ornate gale]

ayyyy a vvvv fellow !

[grave wren]

did it for a seminar at uni

too lazy for gui programming

[ornate gale]

tried pd too ?

[grave wren]

yeah

in the end i edited the file in a text editor

because less mouse utilization is better

:p

[ornate gale]

[simple ravine]

u guys know what the biggest trend-riser is?

[grave wren]

better be from ms

[simple ravine]

nope

well, somewhat, but nah

RPA

Robotic Process Automation

sounds like something u have in a factory

... but no!

[ornate gale]

if you like boxes but wanna add spaghettis too

there's always UE4's blueprints

https://66.media.tumblr.com/c26c70af7af8d05f1259051dcc98f8ab/tumblr_osfriqaBEa1wp4jg6o1_1280.pnj

[simple ravine]

RPA is an automatino tool that replaces humans for repetetive tasks

with a visual tool, and u can record actions etc

they're also adding AI/ML to it

[grave wren]

rip

[ornate gale]

a mix between autohotkey and selenium IDE then ?

[simple ravine]

a bit more powerful lol

u dont need a programmer

[grave wren]

one of our only pure business lads asked us software guys if we arent afraid of being out of jobs due to ai soon

many laughs were had

[ornate gale]

until you need to debug the ML layer

[grave wren]

just retrain until it works™

[simple ravine]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-30/robotic-process-firm-uipath-worth-7-billion-after-investment

just saying.

[ornate gale]

overfit several ML algos then plug them all in a big hardcoded switch statement

[simple ravine]

this, combined with Azure Logic Apps, Power Apps and Flow

will get rid of the need for all those mediocre developers

it's gonne be git gud or git out

[ornate gale]

git commit seppuku

[simple ravine]

we don't have to be that morbid

but I welcome it 100%

so by closing the loop on the entire trading platform thing

I'll end this with saying, i'm tired of mediocre people trying to build something above their paygrade

ooofff

[grave wren]

so how are they going to learn

[simple ravine]

any other way than putting sub-par things in production?

and let it be there for 3 years

[grave wren]

how come lync still exists then wink

[simple ravine]

haha such a good question

we still have Lync On-Premise

only 100k+ rely on it

[grave wren]

nice

[simple ravine]

(in our organization that is)

but yeah, it's utter trash

the entire "Skype for Business" is atrocious

[grave wren]

love their api

you get error codes and reasons that arent defined anywhere

[ornate gale]

( and obviously doesnt work properly on linux )

[simple ravine]

I think they bought Lync as well

wonder if they regret the purchase

[ornate gale]

hot damn that steam portal MTX is so... wiggly

[frigid nova]

Any ggpk masters here willing to help me look into something? Trying to figure out where the skills that tormented spirits cast are located
e.g. Tormented Arsonist casts fire novas

[simple ravine]

/s/ggpk/dat/

[fathom spruce]

@simple ravine my old company used hosted Lync from MS for a few months when we were trying out messaging platforms

when we signed up it wasn't working. contacted support

turns out we broke the AD forest some how in their backend by signing up

[simple ravine]

Sogeti / Capgemini host it themselves. It's been like this since a long time. I think I recall it being like this when I was working here last time, 10 years ago

[fathom spruce]

ouch

[simple ravine]

We do have Microsoft Teams for everyone though, so we have that as well

but for some reason, all our internal conference calls more or less are on Skype still

[worthy cape]

All you need in life is Zoom ❤

[bold spire]

anyone happen to know what "selected" means when getting the "meta" information on all of an accounts stashtabs in a given league from GGG's API? It seems to always be false.

[frigid nova]

😮

[slow forge]

@queen oriole Alright, I'll entertain your game. Seed is 89620 and notable node is Cruel Preparation.

[slow forge]

You god damn right it is

But you asked in #tooldev-general , so I say you're sneaky little dev

[slow forge]

Well you don't get Tool Dev role unless you ask for it and have proof of work and I dunno man devs sometimes do borderline magic)

[violet path]

so i know i sound like patrick star but do google sheets count as tools

[golden bane]

If they do computation, sure

[oblique wedge]

Does anyone know if someone has uploaded all of the dialogue audio clips for PoE? Betrayal voice lines, etc

[rapid pagoda]

I've done some work with that but haven't put the audio online

http://woofle.net/poe-betrayal-audio.html is part of that

[oblique wedge]

yeah, I actually found that page during my search.

I found a guide posted to Reddit from a year ago. https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/8h94p4/do_you_want_all_of_the_sound_files_from_the_game/

Seems pretty easy. So i guess I'll give it a go, your page should make it easier to get the files I want but if it's not to terribly annoying I think i'll just extract and upload everything for other people to use. I can't believe no one has done this yet.

[rapid pagoda]

I've got a version of that page with the audio on my laptop, just haven't taken the time to upload the audio files

kind of worried about bandwidth :/

[oblique wedge]

All I want is to hear Cameria shout "Absolutely brutal!" when an exalt drops lol

Awh man, that would be incredible if you uploaded everything haha.

[rapid pagoda]

MORE!

[oblique wedge]

How large is the file for all the audio files?

[rapid pagoda]

848 MB

[oblique wedge]

Oh, that's not that bad.

[simple ravine]

Thats not all the sound files

but all the dialogs I presume

there's also a better software for extracting the bank files

https://forum.bigant.com/thread-5237.html for extracting the bank files

[brazen goblet]

im looking for something like currency cop or exilence that actually works well, any idea?

[obsidian lark]

Offense taken, what is it that doesn't work with Exilence?

[brazen goblet]

doesnt show me my char

also, if i want to see a single stash then i cant, thats what i wanted from currency cop

[brazen goblet]

btw, i've seen that it shows the time you spend in a map, thats really awesome and helpful to me atm

[obsidian lark]

What do you mean by doesnt show me my char? in the setup stepper? Or in any other part of the application? You can select a single stashtab under settings if that's what you want to track.

[ornate gale]

well talk about crashing the party

[lone acorn]

hey yall, i'm working on something that's consuming the stash tabs API and I'm a little confused. I'm getting some Items with empty names, just curious what that's all about.

[pseudo ocean]

maybe div cards or gems?

[lone acorn]

The first one I found was a gem, yeah

Elemental Support I think

So, I can ignore/drop these items, but I'm curious about why they're coming back with no name value

[simple ravine]

check typeLine

[lone acorn]

i can do that

[simple ravine]

the name is only for items like "Brood Twine Harbinger Bow"

"Brood Twine" is the name, "Harbinger Bow" is the typeLine

a gem or a div card etc doesn't have a name

[lone acorn]

huh

Okay, cool

I'm not trying to talk mad shit or anything, but the documentation left a lot of gaps

so I'm pretty much flying blind with regards to which attributes mean what and which are important

[pseudo ocean]

https://app.swaggerhub.com/apis/Chuanhsing/poe/1.0.0

from the pins

explains a lot

[lone acorn]

awesome, tyvm

[gray glade]

Anyone know where I can find an interface/model of a poe-item, returned from poe's api?

I think I'm losing a lot of things in my current model, like some categories

[simple ravine]

Unfortunately no complete docs are available for the model and its properties

[oak estuary]

Boy, GGG is really making it hard to do any tooling for the historic jewels. Even your passive tree on the website doesn't show how it changed your nodes

[oblique wedge]

Yeah, I stopped giving a shit about historic jewels. It's overly complex for no real gain unless you invest an entire character and hours of your day looking over every single passive.

[oak estuary]

I was thinking of making some kind of registry for them, which would only be marginally okay if you could automate the process of reading the mods. Even then it's still a manual process of creating the character and moving the jewel around though

[woeful sphinx]

@simple ravine there's still a bunch of setup to do, but it's now in its own repo: https://github.com/PoESkillTree/PoESkillTree.Engine

[simple ravine]

Great news!

What is the setup you mention?

[woeful sphinx]

Mainly nuget and some build script. Maybe CI

[rapid pagoda]

"Technically he's called Kibiava, because he commanded leadership over 1024 warriors, not 1000"

[hazy fog]

@compact isle if you're taking more suggestions for searchable terms I really like the #suffix/#empty suffix can we get # crafted affixes too so we can do some good boolean searches with ORs?

[compact isle]

we can probably look into that

[gray glade]

What I don't really understand is, a game like PoE runs a lot with third party tools but GGG provides so little docs (especially about API), is this intended from them? I'm really hoping one day we will have an official, complete documentation from GGG, but that may be only a dream...

Just the fact that there are no complete documentation for a PoE item is killing me, am I really supposed to look at all API calls and see what properties are available on what items?

[velvet fog]

@gray glade https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Public_stash_tab_API

[gray glade]

isn't the wiki maintained by the community? so when there are new attributes to items related to league stuff, how can we deal with it?

[obsidian lark]

GGG usually releases a document outlining the changes with each league

[gray glade]

what do you mean by a document? a forum post?

I don't understand why the API can't be documented like a normal, basic API that every service provides. actually you need to find the API docs in 3 locations: their official API docs, the poe wiki and one of their forum post for anything that is league-related

[obsidian lark]

Yea, a forum post like this one that was released alongside synthesis https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2333275 I think everyone here agrees that the documentation is lacking but together we can puzzle it all together. Be thankful that there is a API and a great community surrounding PoE instead of hating.

[pseudo ocean]

is there a set time when the change id changes (like every second) or is it faster?

[obsidian lark]

@pseudo ocean it all depends on how many stashes that got changed as far as i know, GGG waits until x amount of stashes has changed and then releases that with a new id. someone correct me if i'm wrong

[pseudo ocean]

ah i see

so it really could be faster than once per second in prime time

[cursive ferry]

Is there a reason websockets from official trade close for a few seconds every 3 hours of the day ? (UTC 00:00, 03:00 ... etc)

[gray glade]

@obsidian lark I'm not hating, I'm thankfull for the dev-community around poe for assembling all the pieces together, but I don't understand why GGG doesn't do it themselves (lack of time? resource?) anyway, thanks for giving me the wiki link for a poe item, it helped me a lot

[deft jolt]

It's not that high on their priority queue

Just look at the sorry state of the stash api

[gray glade]

yeah, I can understand that, especially with their 3 or 4 month sprint schedules

there are things that can't be done, especially low-priority things like a better documentation, which is not even helpful for players, but only third-party tools devs

[simple ravine]

@obsidian lark I think most of us are thankful for the work the community have done, and continuously are doing, at the same time there's some left to desire from GGG when it comes to supporting the 3rd party tool developer community, which in many ways help make the game stay relevant to some extent.

Without poe.trade and Path of Building etc, I believe the game would have fewer players today.

[obsidian lark]

@simple ravine Yea that's what said and i agree that without tool developers the game wouldn't be as popular as it is.

[simple ravine]

I think TotomInc's disappointment were more on GGG than the community. I've raised this point a few times during the years.

I refer to Riot Games as a prime example on how to integrate with 3rd party tool developers in a great way.

Not a very big fan of their game (Riots) - it's alright, but how they organized their APIs and made sure it was documented in a well mannered way made it possible to create quite interesting tools

[gray glade]

@simple ravine that's exactly my point, it wasn't a rant over the community, but more against GGG. I also didn't knew that riot games got a well documented API but something like this for poe would be awesome

you can even try Riot games' API online (if you are logged with a dev account)

[simple ravine]

yeah, swagger-style

pretty neat

[gray glade]

but that would require a lot more effort from GGG, constantly maintening the api over new leagues with new content would require a new position

[simple ravine]

They'll recover the money easily with the increasing relevance

[gray glade]

yeah sure

[simple ravine]

just wait until D4 comes out. they'll have some serious competition

and other ARPG games that are up-and-coming

[gray glade]

but i think at some point, there will be so much added content from leagues that it will not be possible for us, tool devs, to keep up with forum posts and non-documented APIs

[simple ravine]

It would help them have an additional edge over those games in tougher times, business wise

see it as an indirect strategic alliance

[gray glade]

yeah good point for them to show off a documented api for more "professional" tools that want to join poe

it's all about them, one day when so much content will be added, it will be chaos to create tools and keep up with

[simple ravine]

It's not feasible for a game developer to create QoL tools and apps for every taste and scenario, and that's where third party developers come in, and fill the gaps

[gray glade]

quick question, did anyone know the "machine learning" service that can price an item? I can't remember its name

[simple ravine]

poeprices.info

[gray glade]

thanks

[simple ravine]

"can" is a strong word here.

"claim" is a more appropriate word

[gray glade]

yeah I know, i few months ago was the last time I used this service

it was not even close to the real price, and I wanted to see if it's better now

[simple ravine]

It is ridiculously inaccurate

it's not

[gray glade]

alright lol, I'm not gonna use it on my tool so 😛

[simple ravine]

better would be (xyz and poeapp will slap me when they read this), would be to simulate the CTRL+SHIFT+D and check normal mods

and create a median price based on modifiers that way, on demand

[gray glade]

I think I'll try to re-create vendor recipes based on an item, like detect 6 sockets, chromatic, divine, etc...

[simple ravine]

rather than consuming and creating a model... it's just not possible

[gray glade]

yeah I wanted a service which could automatically determine the price of a potential good item

but I guess I'll stick with vendor recipes first

[simple ravine]

well, I think you can to some extent

[gray glade]

maybe automatically detecting mods tier?

[simple ravine]

but it will be harder for things like stat sticks / daggers etc, with bases with multiple purposes

detecting mods is a mess, but if you boil it down to stats rather than mods, and synergies between them

i.e. tri-res + life

tri-res + es

flat + inc damage

[gray glade]

and the metas 😄

how about that?

haha

[simple ravine]

yeah

[gray glade]

that would be a lot of work imo

so I'm gonna stick with vendor recipes first, it will be more useful for my upcoming tool

[simple ravine]

well, I would want to make such thing configurable

you dont necessarily have to price those items, but just indicate that the item is something you want to pay attention to

that way you can use a quad stash which u just use as a dump tab

and reduce the time spent between maps

@gray glade how intricate is your vendor recipe thing? Do you calculate things like chaos recipe etc as well?

[hard bone]

Has anyone encountered a problem that both POE Trades Companion and Mercury Trade have started to skip some trade messages? started today.

[simple ravine]

I had that before. I think it's not a new bug

[gray glade]

@simple ravine no actually I would include vendor recipes that can be applied on only 1 item, not a full set of related items

[rose sapphire]

poemap whispers breaked it for mercury

[simple ravine]

lol

[gray glade]

in the future I may extend the vendor recipe detection with chaos/regal orbs

[simple ravine]

further incentive to actually make a good trade app

so many ideas, so little time

[rose sapphire]

we really need a new trade app

[simple ravine]

yeah, all the alternatives I've tried has been not very satisfying

[gray glade]

why a new trade app?

[hard bone]

Its not a new bug for mercury (it skips when you sit in some chat like guild/trade/global and get more than 1 msg per second), but something happens today for me. never happened with Companion

[simple ravine]

competition spurs innovation

[gray glade]

yeah but do you have new features in mind? or just a basic copy/paste of an existing trade app lol?

[simple ravine]

better user experience, fewer bugs

and yes I have a secret little thing in mind, that I am considering still

[gray glade]

yeah sure, but are the trade apps bugged atm? like poe.trade or trade website?

[simple ravine]

no, I mean like Mercury Trade etc

[gray glade]

oh right

so talking about something more native

more possibilities 😛

[simple ravine]

yeah, I just wish I had more time to dedicate to it

but hey, 4 weeks of vacation coming up

[gray glade]

hey that's nice, time to do your app

that's what i'm doing actually, 2 months break from work, time to focus on my new app for poe

[simple ravine]

I'm sure girl friend and 5 year old kid will take up most of the time, but yeah

2 months, nice

that's unusual, how come 2 months?

[gray glade]

2 months because I'm taking a new webdev job in september

[worthy cape]

@simple ravine I'm now two weeks into my vacation and haven't gotten remotely as much coding on poe-rs as I wanted 😄

[simple ravine]

paternity leave maybe?

[worthy cape]

Got two chars to 91 tho, so I've got that going for me.

[simple ravine]

hehe

ahh ok

[gray glade]

gotta take those vacations, been a long time since I got some

[worthy cape]

Good enough to hack up a tool to diff two GGPKs against each other without any major friction last night.

Wanted to find where the new legion general indicator came from.

[gray glade]

and you find out?

never tried to hack things with GGPKs

[worthy cape]

https://gist.github.com/zao/7378516b85c642e1b13f83cdabe14813

A fair number of things called *general* in there, but none that I've looked at yet.

[simple ravine]

oh scheisse

[worthy cape]

Haven't gotten around reversing any of the FX stuff.

[simple ravine]

should do git diff-esque on the textual ones 😄

and if we'd translate the DATs to CSV-ish, could do that for that too

just so many changes it's hard to grasp

[hard bone]

So i figured out why apps skip trades today. Some of the whispers not record to Client.txt. File exists and writing works, but not for every message, which is weird.

[simple ravine]

oh really

so it's PoE who hiccups

[gray glade]

lol that's strange

how would poe not register all whispers in the logfile?

[simple ravine]

are you 100% certain of this @hard bone?

[hard bone]

well i can show log file + screenshot from chat

[simple ravine]

oof, well that means nothing we can do about it

[gray glade]

btw talking of logfile, is there any resources I can learn from it? like messages in logfile have codes, did they have a meaning?

[worthy cape]

Would be fun to know if it's something silly like character names.

[simple ravine]

easy to test. put a tabula out for 5c

lean back and watch

I accidentally put out a Wise Oak out for average price, while I didn't notice it was max rolled (which upped the price like 15-20c) and had... well, a lot of whispers lol

[gray glade]

well you always know when something is underpriced with poe, you get that flood of whispers lol

[hard bone]

sry i'm not an artist

[simple ravine]

Some people use trade-chat rudeness

[gray glade]

@worthy cape would be right?

the missing trade message in the logfile is from a korean char name

[simple ravine]

well, CastleIron and HATRED_ZOMBIE are missing?

[worthy cape]

I'm missing @From lines for koreans.

[simple ravine]

nvm

oops

[worthy cape]

@To is there, but the corresponding @From isn't on things like AFK replies.

Cyrillic is fine.

[hard bone]

yes in this example Korean, but im not sure

ill try to find out

[simple ravine]

ok screw this im going home to mess with this. gonna pick up kid earlier from daycare

cya'll in a bit lol

[worthy cape]

Hah, seems like the game meshes might be in a left-handed system 👀

Protip - don’t test with geometry that has symmetries.

[hazy fog]

[jade peak]

Mercury Trade ok to use?

[rose sapphire]

Yes, it received a big update with Korean language support, but there was still no official release. I think many Korean users will use it. Also look at alternatives https://grinding.zone/

[simple ravine]

I have this in my log, hmm

2019/06/24 19:18:47 452461078 aa1 [INFO Client 256] @To 정크로: ty
2019/06/24 19:18:49 452462281 aa1 [INFO Client 256] @From 정크로: ty

[simple ravine]

Quite funny how you're "joining" the guild each time you switch instance

2019/06/24 19:18:53 452466406 944 [DEBUG Client 256] Joined guild named Bros with 115 members

[vestal berry]

if anyone uses the addon launcher, is it actually starting up for you? something seems to be wrong with the github api on my end

[simple ravine]

Anyone know the log format, and what those seemingly random parameters are after the timestamp?

i.e. 2019/06/24 19:18:49 452462281 aa1

[chrome topaz]

at least we get info about new item types and even json properties sometimes, it used to be you had to reverse engineer it from the announcement page

[fathom spruce]

2019/06/28 04:48:33 451744765 aa4 [INFO Client 19572] : 노루궁뎅이 has joined the area.
2019/06/28 04:48:44 451756250 aa4 [INFO Client 19572] : Trade accepted.
2019/06/28 04:48:48 451760234 aa4 [INFO Client 19572] @To 노루궁뎅이: ty
2019/06/28 04:48:55 451766781 aa4 [INFO Client 19572] : 노루궁뎅이 has left the area.

I have that in my client.txt but not the initial message asking to buy or their response with "ty"

🤔

is it only their incoming message handler that's not doing korean character names correctly?

[chrome topaz]

wrong encoding?

[simple ravine]

yeah looks like wrong one

make sure you decode the bytes into UTF8

(I think at least)

but what du hek are those 2 values after the date time

[fathom spruce]

the 3 characters long one is the log type

afaik

anyways, encoding problems aside. it never recorded the initial buy message. but it record my response and them enter and exiting

[simple ravine]

wicked strange

the 2nd parameter is going up and down, so it's not incremental either

might be time of day or something

[fathom spruce]

I always figured it was some enum of message types

possibly packet id or something

[simple ravine]

I mean the one right after time

[fathom spruce]

oh that

yeah

I've got nothing on that

[simple ravine]

but yeah I think the 2-3 char one is likely an enum

or actually no

[fathom spruce]

which tbh is annoying. I wanted to parse log messages based on it but it changes between patches

[simple ravine]

2019/06/29 00:04:16 21135187 aa4 [INFO Client 7972] : You have entered Oriath.
2019/06/29 00:04:42 21160828 aa4 [INFO Client 7972] &<-BRO-> DivineZenSlaysThings: Lifting doing lab service? xD
2019/06/29 00:04:51 21170406 aa4 [INFO Client 7972] &<-BRO-> LiftingBirdBruh: just trying to get my enchant :D

they all have aa4

[fathom spruce]

"you have entered" is displayed in chat

I imagine they hooked onto the chat message system for that message

[simple ravine]

wonder how trustworthy that thing is over time

[fathom spruce]

the aa4 thing? it's not

2013/03/31 05:51:27 ***** LOG FILE OPENING *****

my oldest client.txt

1af is what it used to be back then

[simple ravine]

oh you stashed them alright

ok good to know

[fathom spruce]

could probably do some interesting analysis on this log file

[simple ravine]

but it through unsupervised ML and see what comes out 😄

[fathom spruce]

oh god

[simple ravine]

hehe

[fathom spruce]

that chat message aa4 used to be aa1 until the latest patch yesterday

I kind of want to decode these and parse log messages based on them

would be a pita to keep updated

[simple ravine]

yeah

[atomic arch]

someone have idea how fix that?

[simple ravine]

@atomic arch fix what?

[worthy cape]

If it's MercuryTrade not reading entries that don't exist from client.txt, honk at GGG.

[atomic arch]

ust because of this problem mercurytrade stopped working. in client.txt there are no messages about trade means and the addon does not respond

I wrote in the support of GGG. but who knows when these hobbits will fix their game that they broke with their hot fixes

[worthy cape]

Then you've done your part, cope with it 😃

[hazy fog]

have you considered not insulting the people you're attempting to receive support from

[atomic arch]

@hazy fog
people? they break down what worked fine. can not fix trade api can not do something with bots in this game. people? are you sure?

the game has already become Path of Bots if you have not noticed

[rose sapphire]

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/c6yijd/bug_important_korean_whispers_not_being_logged_in/

[umbral depot]

@atomic arch brainlet

[grave wren]

&nbpsc; basically

[hazy fog]

its blank

like multi's name

edgelord anonymous names

I don't think it does

lol

[pulsar agate]

does POB properly calculate non chaos as extra chaos?

oh wait, nvm im dumb

my pob was telling me about 23% more dps from harness the void when im triple converting and i was confused

but that is 23% more after all my eternity shroud damage as well, so its actually way more over the base phys+ele

[worthy cape]

@earnest radish I find their messages easier to spot when blocking them.

[atomic arch]

@umbral depot
fanboy . the main thing is that every 3 months the league should be released ?
why fix something? no time. need to rivet new league

[chrome topaz]

free game no bitching

[hazy fog]

free game free bitching

[worthy cape]

PoE protip - when parsing data files, put in range checks on counts. Apparently takes time to allocate and fill a UTF-16 string table of 3.2 billion entries.

Error: ErrorMessage { msg: "Art/Microtransactions/Town_Portal/supporter_portal_03/supporter_portal_03.fmt: String table size 3261027124 larger than input size 44773" }

[fathom spruce]

🤔

[umbral depot]

there's a difference between being a fanboy

and not being a brainlet

you're in a discord for a game

and shitting directly on that game's developers for said game's issues

that makes you a brainlet

leave the discord and stop playing the game if you have a problem with it lol

brainlet

[chrome topaz]

@hazy fog hello i'd like to report a crime

[hazy fog]

[grave wren]

do we know whether srs have 0 chaos res or more per default?

[rapid pagoda]

http://poedb.tw/us/mon.php?n=Raging+Spirit says 20%

[grave wren]

I guess that's all we have then thanks sucks kinda for minion instability with the new amu

About 5s until detonation is too long to be enjoyable for me

[rapid pagoda]

rip the popcorn srs dream

[worthy cape]

Interesting. Someone reports that the level of items out of incubator are around the mean of the incubator and map you're running when it procs.

Very dumb if it's so, but all I've seen elsewhere is parroting that it independent of where you're at.

[grave wren]

I think the ilvl of the incubator matched it for me

E.g. item ilvl is equal to incub ilvl. Can test this evening

[worthy cape]

Bloke claims to have run 10 singulars, but it's like wringing juice from a rock.

[grave wren]

I am positive it worked fine for my elder shaper jewelry ones

But will buy some and test

[grave wren]

@worthy cape i'll blame you for my loss of sanity buying enchanted incubators

:<

[grave wren]

@worthy cape

incubator was 71+76

btw did anyone here do some ISAQB certifications

are they worth the money or better skipped?

planning my edu money and isaqb software architect would be 2k€

not sure if worth

[worthy cape]

@grave wren Interesting, thanks for checking.

[earnest ledge]

has anyone made a tool for sharing legion jewel info. some of the ms paint diagrams people make are truly awful

would be nice to have a standardized format for reddit posts, as well as a tool that makes inputting that information easier

[hazy fog]

yes

emmitt's planner allows overrides

https://discordapp.com/channels/174993814845521922/552615024393322506/591382724405624853

[earnest ledge]

ah. so you can. pretty nice

[chrome topaz]

why's shockwave support a hybrid gem?

so if I'm understanding this correctly

shockwave is a hybrid gem, and the top-level json has "typeLine": "Shockwave", however the top-level description/explicitMods are for the "shockwave support"

[velvet fog]

yes, it is hybrid gem, and all vaal gems are hydrid now

[chrome topaz]

meanwhile the hybrid child object has "baseTypeName": "Shockwave Support", yet inside the hybrid object the properties/mods/description text are for the "shockwave" gem??

isn't that backwards

[compact isle]

vaal gems are backwards

it is confusing

[limpid helm]

@chrome topaz is that shockwave stuff to do with the json thats returned from public stash api requests?

[mortal bone]

@earnest ledge I should probably add a show all tooltip button at some point...

[earnest ledge]

ooh, yeah for sure

I was just thinking linking to the tree but screenshot functionality makes a lot of sense

[chrome topaz]

yeah @limpid helm

[limpid helm]

@chrome topaz ok, cheers !

[wind garden]

rip cloudflare

[worthy cape]

Sanctuary_skullCupcake_03.fmt - I have several questions...

[grave wren]

Can you eat it

[worthy cape]

98k tris, so probably not healthy

[wind garden]

what happened to searching for open affixes on poe.com/trade?

did it change or go away?

[grave wren]

https://discordapp.com/channels/174993814845521922/175003881300951040/594139985536352267

[wind garden]

thx

[earnest ledge]

Thanks, I was wondering as well

[slow forge]

@velvet fog https://poedb.tw/us/item.php?n=Vaal+Orb Half the page seems to be in what I assume is Korean or Chinese and another is in English, despite the url saying us

[worthy cape]

(Chinese)

[chrome topaz]

guess which site didn't go down tho

[woeful sphinx]

@earnest radish it's not in repoe. No idea where it is in the original data

[worthy cape]

@earnest radish EinharMasterLocalColdDamageTwoHand1 (you had 2, which is later in the game)

CraftingBenchOptions.dat:
    ModFamily = "ColdDamageWeaponPrefix",
    Tier = 1,
    CraftingItemClassCategoriesKeys = [1],
    RecipeIds = [173],
RecipeUnlockObjects.dat:
    RecipeId = 173,
    WorldAreasKey = 46
WorldAreas.dat:
    RowId: 46,
    Name = "The Solaris Temple Level 2"

Note that some recipes have multiple entries in the RecipeUnlockObjects table, typically ones from the lab.

Then digging through the WorldAreas, Topologies, dgr files, master.tsi, generate.rs, map_room_1.arm, there's a doodad like:
381 206 -2.0944 0 0 0.866026 -0.5 0 0 0 1 "Metadata/Terrain/Doodads/RuinedCity/Library/library_book_01.ao" "Metadata/MiscellaneousObjects/CraftRecipeUnlockMarker"
which implements CraftRecipeUnlockMarker

(which is entirely too much information)

[wind garden]

has GGG addressed the dropping of whisper messages from the client.txt log?

[pseudo pine]

Actually, about that...
I received an answer from Chris yesterday, and will make a post tomorrow. But I'm afraid that nothing will be done about it

[simple ravine]

How surprising

after all, it would help the quality of lives of players who wants to trade

[violet path]

i can't go back to trading without the trade apps god no please

[jade adder]

you're not my real jeff

👀

[violet path]

aren't you that guy that people are always @ing in the general discussion but it goes to me instead

[jade adder]

haha yes sometimes

[chrome topaz]

@pseudo pine what's he say?

[frigid nova]

ggg making trading less convenient? 🤔

[simple ravine]

4.0 changes: Stash API gone 😂

[cosmic saffron]

stash api now directly served through trade chat

[frigid nova]

All trades done through phone calls for maximal player interaction

[hazy fog]

Iron got the jump on that one

[simple ravine]

Every trade now costs a consumable MTX, similar to skin transfers

Oh this game is becoming meme level

[hazy fog]

pssh

using up fireworks when you could use up wetas

[rapid pagoda]

@worthy cape Fascinating! (re. craft unlocks). I suppose this means that GGG could never have two crafts which are unlocked in the same world area

[velvet fog]

.arm can have multi doodads

[rapid pagoda]

Right, but I don't see any way they could unlock different recipes

Assuming that it works by looking up the recipe in RecipeUnlockObjects

[wind garden]

fyi, characters that have an underscore in their name don't get their messages logged to client.txt

in addition to korean players

well, players with korean names

[cosmic saffron]

doesn't it get replaced by an underscore

[compact isle]

it's only Korean players

underscores are fine

[wind garden]

@compact isle ! what did you do?

trade is updating amazingly fast

buying fossils in bulk and the site updates immediately after I've traded them

[compact isle]

we have a multi-threaded consumer, it's been that way for a couple of weeks now

[worthy cape]

There's also RecipeUnlockDisplay for the human-readable mapping of recipe IDs to places.

Interestingly enough, the unlocks from the Temple are not listed in RecipeUnlockObjects, which may mean that they're handled in a different manner.

@rapid pagoda @earnest radish Incursion recipes are handled via doodads of classes like Metadata/Terrain/Leagues/Incursion/Objects/RecipeUnlock/RecipeUnlockTrapRoomIII

Like seen in Metadata/Terrain/Leagues/Incursion/Rooms/Features/trap_present_3.arm

Nikos recipes are probably similar to Incursion's.

I can't quite tease out a mapping from the doodad class, might be handled server-side.

[rapid pagoda]

There's no reason for it to all be present client-side, TBH. The client doesn't need to know details about recipe unlocks for local prediction. On the other hand, I get the sense that the Data directory is shared with the server, with certain parts selectively redacted for the client GGPK. (With occasional slip-ups... cough SynthesisMods)

[worthy cape]

There's a mention of an hover unlock title but I guess it's a generic "recipe here, yo".

[rapid pagoda]

probably just the "Crafting Recipe" text that appears when you hover over the doodad

(dear devs that are undoubtedly listening in 😉: there is nothing wrong with sharing data with the client GGPK, you don't need to change anything...)

[violet path]

more like it that narcs am i right

[rapid pagoda]

@violet path I'm sure they're aware of the issue. poedb is hardly a secret

[violet path]

oh of course i just wanted to make the pun

[rapid pagoda]

wags it was a pretty good one

[distant rock]

Does anyone know if it's possible to fetch stashtabs based on their Id instead of the index? (character-window api)

[obsidian lark]

@compact isle What happens if one upgrade a stash tab from normal to premium, will it have the same Id or a new one?

[simple ravine]

Try it

[worthy cape]

@simple ravine Did you know that code runs faster if you run it on the correct host?

I keep mixing up my NAS (4-core dinky Xeon) w/ the Ryzen (16 threads).

[simple ravine]

context?

[worthy cape]

No context, offloading my .fmt parser from my workstation.

It's so well threaded, it freezes any streams and slows down PoE when I run it.

Got some code now to try to read a whole lot of data types from all the files, gathering statistics on what type of data is at the location I'm probing.

Things like "try to read 4 32-bit floats, and see if it's likely to be a quaternion".

All my reversing I'm doing with 010 editor's template language normally, but that only does one file at a time.

.fmt files have some optional blocks and I can't quite author a template that succeeds for all variations.

So I figured I'd run the same parser in "lockstep" across all files and try to get some overview of what they're running into.

A bit stumped at how I should present the results. I've got around 15k files and maybe a dozen datapoints per file.

Maybe I should just emit the world's dinkiest HTML 😄

[simple ravine]

You will have to show me the ropes of how you reverse engineer these binary things

I've always been fascinated by it, but not enough to get into the science of it

[worthy cape]

Unless the format designer has been evil, all the information you need for a later part of a file is present earlier in the file.

I squint at the first bunch of bytes, see if there's ones that look like they could be counts, then look through the file looking for data that looks like "strings" or "floats".

I love the puzzle nature of it, the way you can tease out blocks and when theories about how they're laid out come true.

Helps to know your binary representations of common floating point numbers, if there's a byte with values "3F" or "3E", it might be the highest byte of a float.

Sequences of values that increase as they go? Probably lists of offsets or indices.

https://i.imgur.com/llvdZiD.png

[simple ravine]

oh snap, that looks like a handy one

[worthy cape]

Every byte is there for a reason, unless the format designer was evil or wrote structs with uninitialized padding out verbatim.

[simple ravine]

I've just messed with more rudimentary hex editors

I need to get this

[worthy cape]

I picked it up for its templates, very handy for rapid testing - https://gist.github.com/zao/840721ad7d5e7c999993369ad8e5c163

Answers questions like "what if I parse N blocks of (u32, 16) here, what do I get and where do I end up with the rest?"

So I've gotten rather far with this for most formats, but it only really deals with a few files at a time.

[simple ravine]

ah, and u can write C that runs in that thing?

[worthy cape]

Their template language is a C-like mixture of declarations and statements.

Every value you declare in the template ends up in the results table shown in the middle of the window.

[simple ravine]

Awesome, will mess with this sometime

[worthy cape]

I forget how capable the trial is, I bought it long ago and tend to buy new licenses when I need to.

[simple ravine]

ah $130 for something to tinker with

dunno

oh $50, a bit better

[worthy cape]

Yeah, you kind of need to have a use for it, but you can always mess around with the trial.

[simple ravine]

yeah

do you use it for anything else, that made u buy it?

[worthy cape]

I forget what I was working on back then, some sort of game file format.

I've used a lot of hex editors and had kind of pondered something like their template system for a long while for my own format and packet parsers.

Figured that theirs was way more robust than my junk and paid my dues 😃

It's all strictly hobbyist, no job use for something like this.

Someone in a thread talking about 010 templates mentioned a C# library they were working on - https://github.com/Michael-Kelley/BeeSchema

No idea how competent it is.

There's also https://kaitai.io/

(https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6mn8pb/shout_out_to_010_editor_binary_templates_they_rock/)

[pseudo pine]

Part 2 of my post about whispers not being logged in Client.txt. Clarifying the situation
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/c93tvs/bug_important_korean_whispers_not_being_logged_in/

[hazy fog]

@pseudo pine thx I posted it to game news

[simple ravine]

Ah, this is unfortunate.

[worthy cape]

Huh, that's a decent reason.

[chrome topaz]

did you think they were gonna say because trade is too easy

[worthy cape]

I missed the whole first part of it, figured it was an actual bug.

[simple ravine]

Jolt my memories - divination card drop locations aren't in the .dat files?

[mossy burrow]

I'm not sure if this is the correct Section asking about this specific Problem.
My PoB keeps on Crashing since around a week.
I've looked into my Eventlog and managed to find the cause of this.
ApphangB1
Does anyone have an idea what might help here?
The only fix for now is reinstalling PoB. But as soon as i restart PoB it crashes again.

[pseudo pine]

Tbh I don't think they are spamming because they "know" their whisper isn't being logged. It's probably just a different mentality thing

[simple ravine]

They're gonna have a tough time trading in this game if they keep this up though

[chrome topaz]

well that's a weird law. I wonder if gdpr is gonna cause the same problem

[simple ravine]

doubt it

based on the things i've dealt with gdpr at work, i have not heard anything about usernames or the like for personally identifiable information categorization

Asing again incase anyone missed - Divintation card drops, are they minable somewhere or manually gathered?

[chrome topaz]

I doubt the korean law includes usernames either...

a problem with these laws is they are very broad on what personal information means

sorry i mean vague

[rich smelt]

'without consent' seems pretty key there

[chrome topaz]

broad refers to the possible readings of the law

[rich smelt]

couldn't they just ask for consent from users

[rapid pagoda]

wouldn't surprise me if there were a healthy chunk of "because you aren't a korean-owned company" involved

whether that's because they care about their citizens' data security or because they want to make life hard for foreign companies is kind of up to interpretation

[pseudo ocean]

couldnt ggg just add something like "by installing the game you consent to blah" into their tos

[twilit monolith]

i'm sure they have their top lawyers working on it

[pseudo ocean]

[rapid pagoda]

depends entirely on how the law in question works. entirely possible that the law applies to the company collecting data, not to the individuals whose information is collected

[chrome topaz]

by reading this message you consent to transfer of the ownership of your soul to me

[hazy fog]

I can't read

[simple ravine]

GDPR has made some companies go nuclear on their privacy stuff, which is quite unnecessary

They just need more seasoned lawyers telling them that when you're a customer of the company, you have a legal reason to store their information

[hazy fog]

but see its not them storing it; its each user

[pseudo ocean]

how do they handle email then

or discord

anything where you interact with another user that could log

[simple ravine]

Sure for GGG it's a bit different, I meant in general regarding GDPR

But to me, the reasoning is a bit weak, but granted - they don't really have a reason to invest money and resources investigating the consequences and how to figure this out so 3rd party trade tools can work

We'll just have to see if they do investigate this further or not.

Regarding the privacy laws, they look quite similar to GDPR (in general). The only thing appliccable in for GGG in Article 15 is §1 as well.

[chrome topaz]

which is why I'm wondering if soon European users would have the same problem

[simple ravine]

Well all the text in the response is pretty unusable unless there's a definition of 'personal information'. In GDPR case, the term 'personally identifiable information' is used, which is could be different.

[snow kernel]

processing personal data for the primary purpose of your business activity does not require explicit consent under gdpr

it can be argued that chat is among their primary activities

especially when you take accessibilty into account

(thats eu perspective, dunno bout korean laws, if thry similar, this is as stupid as cookie popups - not required by law, but ingrained in common awareness)

[jagged charm]

Any1 know why I am getting 'Error: Request to poepriced dot info returned HTTP error 504' whenever I ctrl+d rare items to look up the price with the trade macro?

[fickle yew]

@simple ravine have you checked out Avalonia? Seems they have .NET core support now. https://github.com/AvaloniaUI/Avalonia

[simple ravine]

@fickle yew Yeah, I think that is what their initial plan was - to create a WPF alternative that was cross-plat

I wouldn't use it though. It's pretty clunky

[fickle yew]

Meh I want some C# cross platform ui 😃

[simple ravine]

well, it depends on your mileage i guess?

[fickle yew]

They do have support for ReactiveUI which looks kind of cool.

https://reactiveui.net/

[simple ravine]

yeah, tried it

it has its problems too

I started using that for my poe app

and it was the reason i just got stalled and just staring at the code, and now probably have decided to rip it out

Rx is glorious. The team behind RxUI... not so much imo

additionally, i never got routing to work for some reason 😐

(view location just threw)

[fickle yew]

Aw 😃

[simple ravine]

what i mean is, they have some really questionable design decisions

like service locator pattern

which is what i couldn't even get to work

[distant rock]

Asked this before but just want to check if anyone knows more than me; Is there any way I can verify a users sessionId with a form on my website? AFAIK the POESESSID cookie is bound to the pathofexile.com domain. Is there any way around this other than disabling chrome web security?

[worthy cape]

Hey @chrome topaz, what normally causes "query is too broad" on your site? I'd kind of expect a search like this one find items with the enchant - http://poe.trade/search/ayomamokagomod

(searches like that comes from trademacro's Ctrl-Q to price enchants)

[chrome topaz]

number of items matched

what happens is that if a mod doesn't exist it just throws the filter out so you get all results

as for this problem just use the mod right above it @worthy cape

[worthy cape]

Ah, cool.

Makes sense.

[shell slate]

how many items should I expect to find if I walk through all public stashes in standard and legion, some 20 million?

and/or my IP address banned or some sort

[pastel musk]

Anyone have issues with poe trade macro taking forever or being completely unresponsive? sorry if this is the wrong place to ask

[shell slate]

yeah

[simple ravine]

@distant rock Correct. You cannot read it from a different domain, by design. Imagine the evil shit you could do otherwise.

[distant rock]

@simple ravine yea, figures

thanks for the response

[worthy cape]

@shell slate Most API endpoints have rate-limit headers in their responses that tell you how to pace yourself to not be throttled, there's a primer in the channel pins.

As for item count, no idea.

@pastel musk Typically it's one of the web services that it calls into that is overloaded during primetime.

[grave wren]

@worthy cape Lync just silently overloads btw much fun was had

[worthy cape]

Quality teleconferencing \o/

[simple ravine]

I tried opening up a Lync meeting link earlier today. It just refused to redirect properly

Had to resort to phone meeting, what a flustercuck

[surreal robin]

does control D not work anymore for poe macro?

[wind garden]

Ya something is broken with trade macro

Poe.trade also seems reeeeeally slow

[fast citrus]

It worked for me ~30 hours ago, but I guess that's old news

[wind garden]

@chrome topaz something up?

[surreal robin]

yea i can check prices for uniques, or fixed stuff, but seems to not be able to search for rare items

[thorn ledge]

Is it me or we can't choose "staff" as a lvling option on filterblade?

[wind garden]

You won't be able to check for rare items that's expected

Poe prices site that the macro uses is down

I can't price check uniques though

Which just uses poe.trade

http://poe.trade/search?capquality=x&corrupted=0&has_buyout=1&ilevel_min=50&league=Legion&link_min=6&name=Atziri's Disfavour&online=x&rarity=unique&sockets_min=6&base=Vaal Axe&group_type=And&group_min=&group_max=&group_count=1

this search fails

[fast citrus]

@thorn ledge ive not seen the filterblade team here often, they have their own discord server where people are very helpful

[pastel musk]

@worthy cape thanks

[thorn ledge]

@fast citrus thank you

[shell slate]

do you know if there's already a piece of code that will turn a ctrl-c'd item in the a form you would get from the API

[simple ravine]

that's not possible

The JSON representation you get from the stash APIs are much richer.

actually, it looks like they added (crafted) to crafted mods since last time I checked

[shell slate]

I know, but I'll take an approximation if at all possible...

[simple ravine]

For a JSON representation, shouldn't be difficult.

[shell slate]

am I shit out of luck? I'm probably shit out of luck

[simple ravine]

The bigger issue is when you try to determine which modifiers comprise the stats shown

[shell slate]

I mean neither the API or ctrl-c give you the mod names and tiers

[simple ravine]

correct

[shell slate]

...and mod tiers overlap anyway

[simple ravine]

this is why poe.trade and poeapp etc have no way of determining whether or not you have an open suffix/prefix on items

they overlap now?

[shell slate]

I mean, through crafting?

[simple ravine]

great news.

[mortal bone]

Yeah, mod tiers have overlapped forever

[simple ravine]

i'm apparently a bit out of touch hehe

[mortal bone]

Rarity is a fun one

Let's play prefix or suffix and what tier of each

[simple ravine]

well if we put aside crafted ones, as those, we can determine now if they are crafted or not

yeah, rarity is a real bugger, having 2 mod groups, one prefix and one suffix one

[frigid nova]

I think people are using overlap to mean different things.

Anyone have an example of two mods within the same mod group which overlap?

[simple ravine]

i dont think there is one within a mod group (if we take away crafted tiers)

at least that is what i thought

[frigid nova]

That was my impression as well, but I wouldnt be suprised if there was some outlier

[simple ravine]

yeah, this is the biggest problem

[frigid nova]

yeah which is really unfortunate.

[simple ravine]

i really wish Novynn and gang would provide this

[frigid nova]

Or just give mod ids directly

[simple ravine]

soon ™

[shell slate]

first thing I checked https://i.imgur.com/wOw1xLa.png http://poeaffix.net/1h-axe.html#/

[frigid nova]

excluding crafts

[simple ravine]

Honed and Gleaming still overlap

[shell slate]

one handed axe, Adds # to # Physical Damage; the lower end being 9 might be the perfect worst Gleaming roll or an average Honed roll

[simple ravine]

poeapp, do you have a schema you could share?

[frigid nova]

Thanks @polar island

[simple ravine]

i feel there are some props i am missing from my outdated model, would appreciate an updated version

it's just a testament to the overcomplicated state of this

nah, props

on items

[shell slate]

I mean what people would really care about is "is this the perfect roll of this mod"

[simple ravine]

a lot of people would care if the tier is 1 or 2

and not so much the roll within those tiers

This page was last edited on 22 September 2018, at 21:57.

[frigid nova]

It is not so difficult to write code which given a ctrl c provides all possible mod combinations which lead to it.

Even the worse examples only have a few possible variations

[simple ravine]

I tried, and I gave up... granted I didn't give it a great deal of thought, but I wouldn't say it's trivial

[frigid nova]

I have some code, it's just not as fast as it should/could be

[shell slate]

(context: the price macro being down is motivating me to try and mess about with vowpalwabbit; unsuprisingly, virtually none of the work involves actually messing with vowpalwabbit https://gist.github.com/badp/1037f18f45f769241f6a58a42d53aaa6#file-pls-py just some really horrific pyhtonry)

even just being able to tell chaos+ and sub-chaos items apart would make me happy tbh

[simple ravine]

many have come to this channel with the similar idea

that's all i have to say on the topic

[shell slate]

popular, eh?

and doomed

mostly doomed

I have no illusions

just watching the thing consume the API is making me happy

[simple ravine]

ok, let me add this: it's not feasible. several have argued that it is, but i stand by my perspective that it isn't

[mortal bone]

Yeah, it isn't feasible, and I will stand by that as well

You have no idea if an item was sold or removed

[shell slate]

I know I know

[simple ravine]

that's not even the biggest problem, but one of them indeed

[shell slate]

I should be able to at least tell chaos from exalt items

[frigid nova]

I think it's feasible - just requires a large scale data collection effort which no one is willing/able to do.

[shell slate]

telling which items are worthless from which items are potentially worth something is probably impossible without a source of worthless items to compare against

[simple ravine]

yeah, you definitely could do that, but I think it's easier to create a bespoke algorithm than attempting to use ML for that

[shell slate]

that would require me to learn how to price items which kind of defeats the purpose :P

[simple ravine]

well, i have one idea that might be worth pursuing

[frigid nova]

people think that item evaluation is a much more complicated function than it actually is 😃 Just requires a shit ton of well-curated data, which would require setting a server to track all the api changes over the course of a league

which is time and money.

[shell slate]

in a way I would definitely expect poeprices to have that feed of worthless items

[simple ravine]

it involves checking top builds and their items, and how they are synergized by reducing them to pseudo mods

[frigid nova]

however, I'm biased towards saying it will work considering i do ML for a living..

so perhaps I'm perpetually overconfident

[simple ravine]

i mean, if you could prove me wrong sure

[shell slate]

clearly all we need to do is make PoB phone home items as they're pasted and how much of an impact they'd have on that player's build. I'm sure no one will have a problem with that.

[simple ravine]

but the amount of possible combinations (permutations) are staggering, especially if you combine it with baseTypes and how they synergize

[frigid nova]

I mean the number of combinations of a go board is also staggering

[simple ravine]

you would really have to normalize the data into pseudo-mods and make assumptions in your normalizations

[frigid nova]

like truly staggeirng.

Looking at combinatorial outcomes as a measure of complexity isn't very fruitful imo

[simple ravine]

sure, but the problem isn't the combinations alone, but also the pricing information for each permutation is likely not be enough

correct me if i am wrong, but you would need a decent amount of data for each decision leaf

[frigid nova]

My opinion is roughly - if a human can learn (rather quickly) to roughly appraise the price of items than considering the sheer amount of data we have we have a good shot of fitting a function to approximate as well.

Of course outliers will be bad - but humans are bad at appraising outliers regardless.

[simple ravine]

well, that involves me going to poe.trade and look at similar items at the given time

so it's also a temporal issue

damnit, down the rabbit hole we go again

[frigid nova]

yeah 🙃

[simple ravine]

Assume you have N permutations.

[frigid nova]

I think we can agree to disagree, perhaps one day I ( and anyone else interested ) can actually collect and curate the data

and then I am happy to see how good of a model we can fit.

but the data collection sounds very dull and tedious to me at this moment.

[simple ravine]

You would want Y*N datapoints

where Y is determined by the reliability of the datapoints

because I am assuming the output model would likely be a decision tree/forest/jungle

[frigid nova]

Don't want to dive too deep into this, but counting outcomes is not a good measure of complexity.

There are plenty of functions on a large discrete space that can be modeled with really shallow nets

[simple ravine]

i am not great at machine learning, i just know the basics

but i take a more pragmatic philosophy to ML - it's regression and statistics combined with assumptions based on normalized data

whatever you do, you will need enough reliable data

[frigid nova]

yeah, it's not something fully worth delving in to, but I think evreyone here can somewhat agree in order to have any hope of it working we would need a large, somewhat curated dataset.

[simple ravine]

garbage in, garbage out

[frigid nova]

It's all about how much signal is in the noise.

if I have enoug hdata even if I add a shit ton of noise to it I can retreive the signal

[simple ravine]

now i got some feeling, because you have a more calm approach to this discussion 😄

so for the sake of this discussion, let's assume that removed items are actually sold for the advertised price

just to have a base going

[violet path]

are those like programmer fighting words

im new to all this

[frigid nova]

@violet path no popcorn for you today

[shell slate]

even just being able to have the model learn "boots + no increased movement speed mod = vendor" might already be an improvement on poeprices' ML model...

[simple ravine]

probably in many cases, bp

[shell slate]

(my vw bullcrap can't do that)

[simple ravine]

but by assuming that, you have given the model bias

which for your usecase is probably completely fine

[shell slate]

well the idea is I wouldn't tell it that, though I do need to give it a chance to add two and two together

[simple ravine]

but if we discuss it in broader terms, there might be boots worth several exalts without movespeed

[frigid nova]

so yeah one fun experiment would be to pick one base type, only look at non shaper-elder variants, and see if we collect data for all of a league how accurate we can get

its small enough to get running, and would provide an interesting test bed

still would require someone with much more database knowledge than me to set up a server to actually track the data.

[simple ravine]

so remove the temporal constraints in the experiment?

[shell slate]

boots withot MS being sold for 1 ex+ https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Legion/nzLpMzC0

[frigid nova]

I think a good way to build models is from simple to complicated. So one could start with just the mods, and then add in more information and more complicated models carefully.

[shell slate]

...some of those are clearly joke listings

[frigid nova]

And I think a step which is really not worth overlooking is pruning input data.

Like there is a decent amount of garbage we can easily rule out (ie a whole tab gets unlisted at once)

or an item which gets unlisted and then shows up again a day later, etc.

API exposes unique ids right?

[shell slate]

is there even a point in looking at items vanish however?

[simple ravine]

Let's say our input are items removed individually by players who have a character on the ladder.

[frigid nova]

@shell slate I'd argue the only data you should look at is vanishe ditems, since those are the ones which potentially sold

no point in using an item which has been listed for 20 days.

lots of people list garbage for mirrors

[simple ravine]

This would reduce the amount of data significantly though, which is a problem

But I think that would reduce the noise ratio significantly

[frigid nova]

yeah that is definitely an interesting idea, you can always just double up those datapoints

to indicate your faith in them.

[simple ravine]

But then you have people like cutedog that dumps all his rings into a 15c stash tab, and if he gets whispered super quickly, he just ups the price etc

[shell slate]

I've been dumping ALL* of my rares into a ~price 1 chaos tab this league...

[frigid nova]

Also data manipulation to make more stable datasets - so if you have a bunch of data which you're pretty sure is correct, duplicate it and slightly change the roll ranges.

[shell slate]

*those that the trade macro thinks are 1 chaos or less

[simple ravine]

That's an interesting idea nick_

extrapolation

[shell slate]

if you slightly change the rolls you might create impossible items

but maybe that's not so much of a problem

[simple ravine]

you can easily make sure you're within range by constraining to the possible values

the possible value ranges are known

one thought, @frigid nova is to only use pseudo mods for a first attempt

or at least reduce to pseudo-mods where possible

[frigid nova]

Oh yeah for sure, I really do like the idea of starting of really simple, and then adding copmlexity one step at a time.

[simple ravine]

and remove the mods used in the reduction

[frigid nova]

But I totally agree, just start off with a model which takes in es, life, res and ms

It won't be amazing, but it'll catch some things, and then move from there.

the benefit of a really simple approach at the beginning is it allows you to focus on cleaning up and better collceting of data.

and once you're convinced you've milked your data for all its worth, you can start trying to add more capacity to your model to catch more complicated phenomena

[simple ravine]

I believe though, still - if we take the effort required to do so, and apply that effort on making a more assumptive bespoke algorithm could be more beneficial

It depends on what the upper potential bound of an ML algorithm would surpass the bespoke algorithm

I don't know enough about machine learning to guess

[chrome topaz]

@wind garden I think one of the servers in the LB pool finally caught on fire

[simple ravine]

mental note to self: don't use hetzner for production things.

[frigid nova]

@simple ravine jumping back into our other conversation earlier - thinking more about crafting simulators, you're a c# whiz right? could you do some benchmarking to give me a sense of how fast c# can generate random ints (using whatever standard library you want)

[simple ravine]

pseudo-random or cryprographically random?

[frigid nova]

pseudo-random (good enough for monte carlo simulations)

[simple ravine]

sure one sec

[chrome topaz]

I mean you get what you pay for

[wind garden]

ya seems like it

[chrome topaz]

but it's not hetzner issue I just forgot to email them about it

[wind garden]

I'm surprised the dev of poe trade macro hasn't added support for price checking on poe.com

ya but you could map them right?

exactly

could pull the latest mods from gppk

[frigid nova]

oh random shower thought - @polar island would you be able to do a query to see if there are any two identical items for sale (identical meaning - same name, base, mods, numerical values)

damn, okay.

[simple ravine]

|       Method |      Mean |     Error |    StdDev |
|------------- |----------:|----------:|----------:|
| PseudoRandom |  9.291 ns | 0.1364 ns | 0.1276 ns |
| CryptoRandom | 75.898 ns | 1.4785 ns | 1.3830 ns |

[frigid nova]

thanks!

[simple ravine]

    public class RandomTests
    {
        private Random _rng;
        private RNGCryptoServiceProvider _rngCsp;
        private byte[] _bytes;

        public RandomTests()
        {
            _rng = new Random();
            _rngCsp = new RNGCryptoServiceProvider();
            _bytes = new byte[4];
        }

        [Benchmark]
        public int PseudoRandom()
        {
            return _rng.Next(0, 100);
        }

        [Benchmark]
        public int CryptoRandom()
        {
            _rngCsp.GetBytes(_bytes);
            return BitConverter.ToInt32(_bytes, 0) % 100;
        }
    }

[shell slate]

now that I think about it a much better and more robust way of thinking about the problem of pricing isn't so much watching items vanish as much as it would be watching items age

like, given an item and a price, how long will the item stay on the market

which is something we can actually get factual labels for

of course the idea of "a price" is a funny one

even pathofexile.com still haven't figured out that 4 alch is more than 1 chaos

[frigid nova]

relative prices between currency require reupdating the database which is costly, so apparently they only do it once things are really out of whack

[pseudo ocean]

but relative prices only affect sorting on the results page

[shell slate]

I think the 4 alc/1 chaos has been true for as long as that page has been up, if you don't want to be ripped off you basically have to just look at listings in chaos

[pseudo ocean]

why would it be costly

[shell slate]

if you want to do pagination on top

then you need to materialize a price column in some arbitrary value of worth

[frigid nova]

Novynn 06/24/2019
it has ex as 110c by default
Retik 06/24/2019
is that hard coded? or does it change?
Novynn 06/24/2019
hardcoded until it is too far out then we update it
unfortunately expensive to update```

[shell slate]

if you didn't have the foresight to materialize two columns (one for serving in production and another for recalculating in the background) indeed it's not gonna be fun to maintain

[pseudo ocean]

what the hell

[cursive ferry]

this hardcoded value, it helps a lot for flipping :d

[pseudo ocean]

seriously why would you use the official trade site

at this point

[worthy cape]

Because it's nice, and it has the non-API advantage.

[cursive ferry]

it looks faster than others

[shell slate]

it's fine once you just look at chaos listings

[cursive ferry]

that's true, but not much players do that

[shell slate]

also people are happy to exploit this sort of market distortions

just look at the listings for any map

[frigid nova]

i mean, the official trade website has functionality the others cant have, so theres plenty of incentive there alone?

[pseudo ocean]

you'd think with 80eur armor packs this wouldnt be such a shitshow

[cursive ferry]

I wish we could do a search on chaos AND exalt, it would remove alot of the weird prices

[simple ravine]

@frigid nova 108 441 216 randoms per second

[chrome topaz]

did you see that article about randoms on the gpu?

[simple ravine]

i did not

[chrome topaz]

https://dragan.rocks/articles/19/Billion-random-numbers-blink-eye-Clojure

[simple ravine]

eww clojure

I can understand that his rand is shit.

[fallow zinc]

Is there a way to see which mods increase dps the most on a weapon, similar to how you can sort support skills by damage, or even highlight nodes on the tree by power?

Or otherwise, a way to import a text file full of items somehow? I can generate all possible combinations another way, but there's 300 of them and I obviously don't want to manually copy that text to turn it into an item, add to build, and see if it increased dps

Err... I was talking about pob of course. Should've added that..

[worthy cape]

@simple ravine Clojure is so extremely weird to work in. It's a Lisp, but pretty much everything you do ends up chafing with opaque Java object types. They also love to scream that it's available for the CLR and JS, but fail to mention that those are essentially different languages as they don't have any data structures of their own, so no code ports ever.

[simple ravine]

Yeah, aware. I am no fan of any Java derivates or Java itself.

[worthy cape]

Clojure - not even once.

[simple ravine]

Especially Kotlin

they are futile attempts to create something good imho

[worthy cape]

Scala and things like it kind of make sense if the bedrock of your world is "shit runs on the JVM".

[chrome topaz]

I'm sure they're way worse than the ones generated by C# code 😉

[simple ravine]

a million times over.

The only thing JVM does better is throwing exceptions.

[worthy cape]

I almost got dragged into a million-line Java project. The core devs really wanted to write all new codes in Scala there.

Well, was just above a million lines half a decade ago, probably bigger now.

[simple ravine]

And any code that use exceptions as control flow is a bad code smell anyways

[worthy cape]

More beans to the bean gods!

If your program's behaviour isn't fully determined by a bunch of XML files defining your concrete classes, what are you even doing?

[simple ravine]

those pom files or whatever they call it?

[worthy cape]

Those are to configure Maven builds, I think.

[fathom spruce]

just lol if you don't use XSD for everything

[frigid nova]

@chrome topaz that clojure article gets insane speeds.

[chrome topaz]

yes it does

[frigid nova]

is there any documentation where they talk about the actual psuedo random distribution they use?

[chrome topaz]

do you mean pseudo random number generator?

[frigid nova]

yeah, they name drop Philox and/or ARS5

[chrome topaz]

https://www.thesalmons.org/john/random123/papers/random123sc11.pdf I think this one's about philox

[frigid nova]

yeah i just stumbled across that paper as well 😄

I think it might have both actually

[rapid pagoda]

does anyone know offhand if trade sites still index forum threads, or is it all premium tabs all the time now?

[grave wren]

i know xyz does

could just test it tbh

[shell slate]

There Was An Attempt https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/190871300770627585/596996501964587018/unknown.png

I'm sure all of those items that are rotting in my 1 alch stash tabs are actually worth big bank

at least the thing is 100% accurate that none of my items for sale are exalt-worthy

oh I know giving it a few more epochs is DEFINITELY going to fix it

[simple ravine]

well, if they're rotting in your 1-2 alch tabs and the thing says its worth more

your thing is wrong

because they're sitting there unsold

[pseudo ocean]

is there a limit to how much listed stuff in premium tabs gets indexed by poe.trade for 1 account?

i'm a bit paranoid with making alch tabs if it means my other shit isnt indexed for it

[simple ravine]

i highly doubt it

[grave wren]

I'd just say alch tabs aren't worth your time ever. With legion you're bound to find more than an alch per map.

[shell slate]

@simple ravine yes that was sarcasm on my part

[elder geyser]

I am looking to extract the contents of my own Map Stash Tab for another downstream tool. Can anyone point me in the direction of how to do this?

[simple ravine]

@elder geyser Not possible.

Map stash tabs are not working on the web version, hence why its not possible.

You can put it in a regular tab and it'd work, technically.

[rose sapphire]

Adding this feature would be a great day 😱

[rose sapphire]

What's your the most wanted feature?

[pseudo ocean]

an auction house

[grave wren]

1a) nicely split affixes, not combined ones where you have to make an educated guess

[obtuse citrus]

they could just give the modid + rolled values and expect you to do the gruntwork

but if I renember correctly novynn said that wouldn't work because things are stored strangly or something, b ut it may have changed since then 😛

[chrome topaz]

they took like 3 years to add ilvl, I don't think prefixes/suffixes is happening

[simple ravine]

yeah i lost all hope for them investing more effort for 3rd party developers than what they currently are

and that is not a criticism against any one person, but more as a whole

problem is some people might still be motivated to mess around, and reverse engineer and lean towards less morally kosher things when this is the case

but hey, not my problem

[simple ravine]

@frigid nova Have a randomizer thing that I got down to roughly 1.1 nanoseconds

static void Main(string[] args)
{
    const int N = 500_000_000;
    Span<byte> b = new byte[N*4];

    for (int qq = 0; qq < 10; qq++)
    {
        var sw = Stopwatch.StartNew();

        RandomNumberGenerator.Fill(b);
        Span<int> r = MemoryMarshal.Cast<byte, int>(b);

        sw.Stop();

        var ns = sw.Elapsed.TotalMilliseconds * 1_000_000;
        var nsPerOp = ns / (double)N;

        Console.WriteLine($"Nanosecond per Random: {nsPerOp:###0.###0}");
    }
}

Also worth mentioning about this randomizer is that it's cryptographic random, and not some lazy pseudo-random

[chrome topaz]

unless you poke a hw entropy source for every output, your cryptographic random is also pseudo-random

[cosmic saffron]

https://blog.cloudflare.com/lavarand-in-production-the-nitty-gritty-technical-details/

[chrome topaz]

what if these are NSA-backdoored lava lamps?

[simple ravine]

then they definitely earned it

[modest sage]

Sup there, not really sure this is the right place for that, in that case please apologize my intrusion.
I was wondering if it was safe to share your POE sessionID with a third party, anyone?

[simple ravine]

Define third party

[chrome topaz]

they can do anything you can do on the website

[modest sage]

would be poe price info but I estimated everything piece by piece afterall <o/

[trail cradle]

define "safe" also :P

[earnest ledge]

notably they cant use your session ID to change your password or email or anything like that. since that requires your password

[rapid pagoda]

@cosmic saffron ironically the entropy on a lot of webcams gets better if you put the lens cap on

[wind garden]

has anybody made a tool that searches the ladder for public profiles and enumerates their gear?

for the purpose of searching for items to offer buying off them

[brazen shard]

My trade macro doesn’t work on rare items anymore gives me an error how I can fix that? I hate watch prices manually

[gilded herald]

https://github.com/PoE-TradeMacro/POE-TradeMacro/issues/1006
The issue is with poeprices. The dev is/was traveling. Im sure it will be fixed soon.

You can still do Ctrl-Alt-D @brazen shard and just tick the boxes youd like to search

[brazen shard]

@gilded herald when I do that and press search it doesn’t find items

I can try again when I am back home

[gilded herald]

fwiw, i just tried in game and it worked fine for me. Normal search using poeprices was also fine.

[brazen shard]

Nah the normal ctrl D gives me error like 4 days now only for uniques still works

[simple ravine]

@brazen shard You know that was highly inaccurate pricing anyways, right?

[brazen shard]

@simple ravine well I know.... so you all guys do it manually??

[simple ravine]

ctrl+alt+d

check the relevant mods, and check

[brazen shard]

Oki yeah as I said I go try again cause when I did the search button couldn’t find items

[simple ravine]

possible sour xyz comment incoming 😂

[chrome topaz]

man i looked at the forum thread for the trade macro and ppl made like 30 pages worth of posts since it broke

[simple ravine]

yeah, with like completely unnecessary comments.

[brazen shard]

Oh ok sorry I didn’t even go there

[worthy cape]

Oh my, I like the red herrings left in the fmt files. There's what appears to be uninitialized data in some fields 😄

The structure that I believe is a local light, contains junk text like "ion/bin/Clie".

[rapid pagoda]

what are the FMT files anyway?

I've never looked much into the Art directory

[worthy cape]

@rapid pagoda They're meshes like SMD, but seem to be more static in nature.

Has submesh sections, triangles, indices, material references, and several blocks I'm still figuring out, but one seem to be some sort of light attachment point, maybe.

(Brotli-compressed, much like many other resources)

[rapid pagoda]

Maybe I'm just picky, but Brotli always felt like a kind of sloppy piece of work to me

Hmm, or maybe I'm thinking of a different dictionary. The Brotli dictionary is mostly reasonable. https://gist.github.com/klauspost/2900d5ba6f9b65d69c8e

[worthy cape]

I used LZMA2 once, it was very chubby.

At least memory-wise to decompress.

[rapid pagoda]

I remember seeing one compressor that was clearly tuned for a web corpus. Fragments of common phrases from Wikipedia all through its dictionary