tooldev-general

[simple ravine]

wat?

[hazy fog]

now there are 😃

[steep latch]

ooo how do I get the tool developer tag added to my profile here?

[hazy fog]

points to pin

[grave wren]

ask the weazard

[hazy fog]

I maintain them tldr make a public poe tool and link me it

no private indexers

[steep latch]

well, I have 2 scripts and a lib that will support other tools and scripts. probably not ready

err, I'm probably not ready/qualified yet

[lavish gust]

what is the tool you are making?

[hazy fog]

no worries I'll be here

[steep latch]

personal scripts, and a nice package lib for other tools for most poe related mathing/parsing

[grave wren]

wonder how much fun you'll have with docker on win

didnt hear good stuff ferret

[steep latch]

it handles passive tree url parsing, skill gems, item parsing, and pob parsing

[simple ravine]

I can recommend this tool (and his other talks):
GOTO 2015 • DDD & Microservices: At Last, Some Boundaries! • Eric Evans
https://youtu.be/yPvef9R3k-M

[hazy fog]

it's a ways off

[simple ravine]

(especially when discussing and dealing with legacy stuff)

[hazy fog]

we have <big name> consulting with us on the move

[simple ravine]

DDD helps a lot in general

[hazy fog]

really really big name

[simple ravine]

Does it start with C or S?

[hazy fog]

R

[simple ravine]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[grave wren]

rolex

[hazy fog]

🙊

[simple ravine]

Rolex is a charity organisation

happens to make watches

[steep latch]

oh wait! I did write a poe tool that could qualify me!

https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/Discordantly - discord bot for socializing around PoE, link your profile to your discord name, so others can ask the bot who you are in game, even if you are offline

[hazy fog]

someday I should make a sticky with every tool listed

[steep latch]

my head has been so far in to nuget packaging my lib, I forgot my discord bot for a second

[hazy fog]

good enough for me

[simple ravine]

🎉

[hazy fog]

Please welcome @steep latch as the latest tooldev creator of a discord poe bot Discordantly https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/Discordantly

[steep latch]

the bot will also ... and this one I really like... take in a pastebin link, and spit out what gems you need, how many, and what level you have to be to equip them

[hazy fog]

I have very low standards

[steep latch]

thank you, that makes me quite happy

[simple ravine]

I'm glad you have low standards, it allows me to be green

[steep latch]

it ain't easy... getting green

[hazy fog]

sure it is I don't even require proof that people use your tool

or that it works

[steep latch]

twss

[lavish gust]

"or that it works" - I have to admit that when recently started to write unit tests even for personaly hobby projects they grant a huge pile of satisfaction when you do a big change and all tests still pass

[grave wren]

thank god nobody noticed @regal mural borked a bit a few days ago

😄

[lavish gust]

I did

[grave wren]

no you didnt!

[lavish gust]

sometimes I see pastebin links on reddit and wonder why there is no POBPreviewBot comment below

[grave wren]

:p

reddit bot isnt mine

just the discord

[simple ravine]

Greg Young is one of the few people who can get away with being slightly smug in his presentations, because he's literally a genius

[steep latch]

oh, you might like this then...

I was at one of his keynotes, and after listening to him talk about lots of C# and things you should be doing in C# that functional languages are already doing (where he listed many functional languages). I approached him after and asked him why he didn't mention F#, "I didn't want to break them", and he said I could quote him on that.

and this was after he called out the audience for not raising their hands when he asked if you were using a functional language after saying they did C# 😃

[grave wren]

well it isnt one

[steep latch]

yes and no

there's a lot of functional capability there

is it first class? no.

[grave wren]

then you could call a lot of stuff functional nowadays

[steep latch]

are pure methods and passing functions possible? yes

[grave wren]

which just doesnt apply imo

[lavish gust]

One thing I dislike about some langiages: why the fuck the require every function to be in a class

[worthy cape]

Gotta Java all the things!

[lavish gust]

like what is the problem with functions in global scope

[simple ravine]

I bought my team the Greg Young video course. It was great for the whole team

[grave wren]

it can lead to messy code imo

[simple ravine]

global functions are why i hate php etc

[lavish gust]

messy is when you have a class that exists only for static functions ... this is an antipattern in C++

[simple ravine]

namespacing help you understand when something should be used etc, and in what context it is

[lavish gust]

if you want to group them, use a namespace, not a class

[simple ravine]

i.e. System.IO, makes it perfectly obvious what the stuff inside is all about

[lavish gust]

and that's ok

I argue against amepty classes, namespaces for global functions are fine

[simple ravine]

global functions aren't mockable, i.e. not testable

relates to god object anti-patterns

this is what makes object oriented programming shine

[lavish gust]

not mockable? I heard global functions are better for testing because they do not require class instance

[steep latch]

ok, here's the context @grave wren https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbM1ghLeweU

at least I think so... watching it again, I've been to multiple presentations he's given

[lavish gust]

you just check input and output

[simple ravine]

ehh

give me an example you'd like to use here

[grave wren]

dunno i just noticed that i abuse that a lot in python

and could make it nicer in OOP fashion

[lavish gust]

lets say there is a function that counts words in a string (takes string, returns int) - what mocking would it gain if you put it in a class?

[simple ravine]

fair enough, let's take another example

I have one.

because business logic is more interesting to test... counting words' business rules rarely change

Assume we have the requirement to create functionality that requires a Customer's LastPurchaseDate to be updated when you add a new order.

using the god object DateTime.Now/UtcNow in your business logic will make it difficult to test.

hence why we start using ISystemClock instead (which in production just implements DateTime), but for unit testing purposes, we have a mock one, so we can control what the "time" is

[fathom spruce]

huh no shit, ISystemClock does exist in .net core

[simple ravine]

another one, database ... instead of going to the database in testing, use an in-memory database

[lavish gust]

this is called dependency inversion

[simple ravine]

how do you use dependency inversion if you use global functions?

[lavish gust]

global pure functions

[simple ravine]

well, I suppose you can pass in functions

but that gets really messy in my opinion

[lavish gust]

if you write a function in global scope that requires other global state ... that's almost always bad

[simple ravine]

especially if these hold some kind of state

[steep latch]

bah, I don't think this talk is posted on youtube 😦 https://www.codeonthebeach.com/cotb2014/session/3070/sunday-keynote-sacred-cows

[lavish gust]

anyone who have worked with errno will know this

one of the worst design decisions ever

setting a global integer in case of any math/priviledge/filesystem error

[simple ravine]

exactly... global state is bad. encapsulated state isn't

[lavish gust]

that's why global pure functions are amazing

ie functions which output depends only on the input and do not modify any global state

[simple ravine]

so what you're getting at is, let's use haskell for everyting? 😄

[lavish gust]

never did Haskell, but some of it's core aims I do very like

also it has a very interesting metaprogramming ability which so far only C++ also supports, maybe also D

[steep latch]

global pure functions are fine, as long as they are namespaced/moduled

[lavish gust]

this should be obvious

[grave wren]

we assume too much shit that "should be obv" imo

[lavish gust]

well, I wish there was such thing made then back in early C days

I work primarily in C++ and everytime I grab any C library it pollutes global scope with tons of macros and functions

functions are not a big problem tbh, but if there is a macro that is not written in UPPERCASE ... you gotta have a bad time

[fathom spruce]

oh man, do I have a story about terrible macro abuse

have you ever wondered what would happen if you wrote the interface to your custom nosql db entirely in C macros?

[lavish gust]

wait what

I don't even know how to start it

[fathom spruce]

haha

well, if you want to know more let me hook you up with this AAA game dev studio...

[lavish gust]

you mean: replace every constant usage by a macro? macro all db functions? macro SQL quiries string concat?

[fathom spruce]

every method to interact with the db was in macros

not a single function in site

[grave wren]

[lavish gust]

was there any reason behind such design?

[fathom spruce]

oh, there was also a ton of hidden global data in the macros as well

[lavish gust]

or just people with low skills?

[fathom spruce]

it was a AAA game studio that couldn't figure out how to scale sql horizontally

so they decided to have two dudes spend a year making a custom fastashell nosql db

[lavish gust]

what is horizontal scaling?

and vertical?

[fathom spruce]

scale out vs up

[simple ravine]

horizontal = distribute / scale out

[fathom spruce]

more db servers vs one giant huge db server

[lavish gust]

ah ok

[simple ravine]

vertical = make beefier computer

[fathom spruce]

the best part? they touted how the lack of ACID compliance made it faster. also that it was easier to refund people lost items then worry about saving them correctly

[mortal bone]

https://i.stack.imgur.com/On3tO.png

[fathom spruce]

I might still have the power point they showed off once...

[simple ravine]

eventual consistency is the savior of distributing data

[fathom spruce]

it wasn't even eventual consistency

they ran one single giant db server

[simple ravine]

this is the one big thing I think Microsoft did right with Azure and their Cosmos DB

or should I say Leslie Lamport's work

[mortal bone]

Cosmos is NoSQL right?

[simple ravine]

he'd do it independent on where he would have worked

[grave wren]

good old lamport

[simple ravine]

yes, it's NoSQL

Cosmos is the rebranded DocumentDB

[mortal bone]

oh nice

[simple ravine]

but they have a couple of things that people don't talk about a lot

multiple consistency models, and geographically distributed multi-master write support

@steep latch I like how he between-the-lines gives Udi Dahan some crap in the presentation you linked (BuildStuffLT)

[steep latch]

o yeah? I'm not familiar with Udi

[simple ravine]

author or NServiceBus, proponent of enterprise service bus stuff

[grave wren]

not familiar with any of the guys

c# is not a thing i did for a while

[simple ravine]

If you're interested, I can shoot a few names that are worth consuming content from

(because there's a lot of quackers out there)

[grave wren]

general content or more c# related?

[simple ravine]

well, they do a lot of C#, but a lot of it applies to whatever you use

[grave wren]

sure wouldn't hurt either way

[simple ravine]

I'm mainly in the context of system architecture, etc

So the first couple of people are very "obvious" to most, but worth mentioning:

• Martin Fowler
• Eric Evans
• Robert C Martin (Uncle Bob)
• Vaughn Vernon

Others are

• Greg Young (as discussed)
• Jimmy Bogard
• Udi Dahan
• Itamar Syn Hershko
• Julie Lerman
• Steve Sanderson
• Jon Skeet
• Eric Lippert

[grave wren]

perfect, thanks

yeah first few are known to me at least by a few articles

[steep latch]

eric lippert, jon skeet

Rich Hickey

[fathom spruce]

well, that game studio never released the power point. probably shouldn't share it

they show some of their macrodb code in it too

[simple ravine]

the further down the list the more C#-specific it gets

[steep latch]

Greg Young is far from C# specific, if that's not clear

[grave wren]

thanks for the list, might be worth a pin

[simple ravine]

that's why he's quite on the top 😃

He's almost hating more on c# than liking it in his talks

but uses it, and even wrote EventStore in C#

but I think he also said oen time that if he would have done it over, he'd choose something else

[steep latch]

somewhere in the last 3 days, he asked about resources for writing his own language on twitter

[simple ravine]

He's a bit of an aspberger guy, I think he's too down a rabbit hole right now hehe

but he's great

[steep latch]

oh and he responded to me on twitter in the last 10 min 😃

[simple ravine]

he's somewhat active on DDD-CQRS-ES Slack group

[steep latch]

did you have any questions on the F# stuff thezensei?

[simple ravine]

My ADD kicked in

let me get back to your slides 😄

was a decent slideshow

i think i need to read more 'this is how it's done with best practices in c# but in f# this is how it's done with best practices'

[steep latch]

sure, but knowing how to do things you would do in C# in F# goes a long way, and makes the learning idiomatic F# easier

[simple ravine]

agreed, it's appreciated

[hazy fog]

@fickle yew HAve you given any thought to letting people search by support gem?

I want to find all the cast on crit builds for example

[fickle yew]

@hazy fog You can search by support gem by choosing an active gem first

But not globally

So you could find everyone doing CoC EK at least

[hazy fog]

hmmmm

[fickle yew]

An extra filter box shows up on the right side

[hazy fog]

I see

[steep latch]

I'd love to be able to see statistics for people playing CoC vs. CwC etc... like we have trends for item prices, trend for gems/items usages in builds 😃

[hazy fog]

I want to see which sucker is using comk

[fickle yew]

https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds?skill=Glacial-Cascade&glacial-cascade-support=Cast-On-Critical-Strike

[steep latch]

That said nothing would be half as useful as being able to see which builds have beaten which bosses/delved to what depths 😦

[steep latch]

so I don't follow a poe.ninja build to 100 to find out this was a solo player just doing maps, no delve, no bosses

[fickle yew]

@steep latch Yeah GGG removed delve depths from the exp ladder for some reason.

I have it on my todo list to index delve ladders

[steep latch]

I figured it wasn't you

😃

they seriously need to include delve depth and bosses beaten

[fickle yew]

Novynn said it would be fixed soon.

Delve depth used to be included

[steep latch]

I know I was there last league, and greatly appreciate you had it in there

[fickle yew]

and it is if you sort by them

[steep latch]

it helped a ton

[fickle yew]

I'm just working on a bigger thing first 😉

[steep latch]

oooo... btw, is poe ninja any part open source?

[fickle yew]

Not atm no.

[steep latch]

Would you mind sharing what language(s)?

[fickle yew]

I wanted to opt out of the whole "people creating issues" thing. I get enough of that at work.

[steep latch]

do they not have an option to turn off the issues tab, or allowing others to submit them?

[fickle yew]

.NET Core, C#, TypeScript, React, Postgres.

[steep latch]

oh, that sounds lovely

I found it, you can have it on github, and have the issues tab disabled

though being able to have a private one would be better

[fickle yew]

Yeah. Maybe some day 😃

[steep latch]

k, I'll keep my fingers crossed 😃

[mortal bone]

@fickle yew ever find anything out about the whole tecent thing?

[fickle yew]

Well you can always just unminify my frontend like Tencent 😃

[mortal bone]

rip

lol

[steep latch]

what is a Tencent?

[fickle yew]

@mortal bone Yes. I've talked to them.

Tencent is the company who bought GGG.

[steep latch]

is there a problem with them?

I remember hearing about the purchase, just forgot the company name

[fickle yew]

Well does this look familiar? https://poe.qq.com/cp/a20181107hero/index.shtml?url=challenge

[mortal bone]

was just about to link it lol

[steep latch]

yeah

[grave wren]

Totally other site. Never seen before I swear

[steep latch]

looks ninja'd

[mortal bone]

@fickle yew anything going to happen?

no worries if you don't want to share

[steep latch]

so is the subreddit moderator role in here literal, as in ... moderates the poe reddit, or like a moderator here metaphor?

[mortal bone]

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/about/moderators

[steep latch]

k, so literal then

[mortal bone]

yeah

voice/chat moderator are those who moderate voice/chat here on discord

[steep latch]

k, and the former has both?

[mortal bone]

I don't really moderator here

there are some that do (Multiplicity)

[hazy fog]

oranges stay out of voice, only light blue go in, the rest of us hate voice chat

[steep latch]

ok good, I'm not a voice fan

[hazy fog]

why good you're not a mod

[steep latch]

good that the rest of us hate voice chat, so there's an 'us' like me

[lavish gust]

wait

A subreddit dedicated to the indie game Path of Exile

indie is no longer true for quite some time

[mortal bone]

only since tecent bought ggg I think

[simple ravine]

what is the definition of indie

[steep latch]

something from india

[mortal bone]

not triple a lol

[lavish gust]

being independent

[simple ravine]

what is the definition of triple a

[mortal bone]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAA_(video_game_industry)

GGG is technically a AAA studio now

with Tencent being the owner

[steep latch]

are they getting AAA funding, or just being owned?

[mortal bone]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[lavish gust]

I guess Tencent does put some money in

[steep latch]

someone bought them, so now they are AAA and we raise all our expectations?

[lavish gust]

they have already did when they bought them

[simple ravine]

perhaps they are going from "indie" to "Triple I" 😄

jesus these terms

[mortal bone]

yeah

They are just terms people came up with

[simple ravine]

we hired a project manager that has worked with some of these "AAA" game companies

she have some fun stories on how many terrible developers there are in that industry

I guess that holds true in many industries, but...

[mortal bone]

developers have some stories about how terrible game companies are lol

[simple ravine]

I was under the impression that game development had super high standards

[mortal bone]

lul

depends on the studio from what I know

typically you have people that are a bit more knowledgeable in smaller/more passionate studio

when you get to companies like EA you are just a cog in a machine

work you to death and lay you off after the game launch

went to school with some people that got jobs in the game industry, and I wouldn't have recommended any of them

[simple ravine]

the developers or the game studios?

[mortal bone]

developers

There might be 10 people I would recommend for a job. It doesn't take much to be a developer

[simple ravine]

From what I've learned, there is one key to finding great developers (there are good ones, but the truly great ones...)

It's asking them when they started programming.

If they said in uni/high school, they're likely not interesting

[mortal bone]

8th grade lol

[simple ravine]

That's a good time to start. It means that you're doing it out of passion/curiosity, not because it was a career move

[dull laurel]

whoever recommended netlify the other day ... awesome thing. works nicely out of the box

[grave wren]

i mean define programming

i wouldnt call "making wc3 maps" programming

[simple ravine]

hell no

[mortal bone]

made a small web based mmo with about 3 other people

[simple ravine]

coding. real programming

[mortal bone]

php/js lol

[grave wren]

dunno i dont think that's a good metric but what do i know

[simple ravine]

well, that's real programing, even if we have our opinions on the languages

[fickle yew]

@plucky palm I let them know I was not happy with the approach. Ultimately I don't want to waste a lot of time fighting it. I'll let them run it to benefit the Chinese players. Got assurances that my code won't reach the international realm.

[grave wren]

think i only started when i was 16 or so 🤷

[mortal bone]

I only started 'programming' because hacking sites was fun lol

[simple ravine]

Ok, let me rephrase it a little

I ask when and why people start

[mortal bone]

Yeah, the why is more important

[simple ravine]

To get an indication of why they're looking for the said programming gig

[mortal bone]

the best developers I know are those who have a passion to advance

[grave wren]

yep the why is the more interesting thing in my book

[simple ravine]

But when is also a key indicator

If curiosity and passion is the overall feeling, I don't care if they have 3 or 15 years of experience

[dull laurel]

wc3 / sc2 maps have their own script language with functions and maybe even classes. so that counts as real programming as much as javascript

[grave wren]

then again i dont have any real world experience judging others

[mortal bone]

eh, just judge your coworkers

[grave wren]

we're not that big so i'd rather keep saying not enough exp. to really say much

[mortal bone]

lol I get you

[grave wren]

I am normally rather cautious while judging things until i really feel i have a formed opinion

[mortal bone]

most of the people are my work know who I am, so I avoid trash talking those folks

[grave wren]

at work i only can complain about one guy who is in another project now

but whose code always has codesmells even years after

[mortal bone]

I just complain about project managers lol

and salary

[simple ravine]

Most of the time, the people who have code smells after X years, should likely need some help re-ignite their passion. But there are many reasons why that can happen

They might be out of their core realm, like a backend developer getting shoved into front-end work, or similar

[dull laurel]

@mortal bone come to Germany or Switzerland. They pay well

[mortal bone]

If I can work remote from the US

[grave wren]

i am pretty sure the us pays better than ger

on avg

[dull laurel]

oh, well if you are in the US, move to silicon valley 😉

[mortal bone]

na

[grave wren]

enjoy paying a lot for a 1 bedroom then

[simple ravine]

new york is apparently going to become the new silicon valley

[mortal bone]

would much rather move to seattle

[dull laurel]

And then work for Microsoft? Or some other cool tech startup?

[simple ravine]

i have high hopes for new york coders

[wind garden]

@fickle yew how is this whole ordeal not on the front page of reddit for visibility? I'm sure the community would be outraged.

[mortal bone]

I live about an hour away from the outside of Portland, OR, so if I were to move, it would be to another city close by

[wind garden]

woh, emmitt lives really close to me

[mortal bone]

oh my

rip

[grave wren]

now kith

[fickle yew]

@wind garden Probably yeah. GGG was very responsive so didn't feel the need to create outrage.

[wind garden]

responsive but what are they doing about it?

[grave wren]

what can they do really

[wind garden]

responding with "it's not a big deal" isn't adequate

[dull laurel]

Isn't Portland also a very nice city to live and work in? My former employer had an office there

[wind garden]

Portland's nice but super lliberal

if you're liberal, then you'd love it

[mortal bone]

Yeah, I don't live in the city (wife doesn't like it), but so far it has been nice working there

[wind garden]

I live in the west suburbs of portland, so I avoid the city but enjoy the area

true true

[mortal bone]

I work in southwest portland lol

[fickle yew]

They assured me that it'd never pop up on the international realm and let me know they'd help if I wanted to apply additional pressure. But in the end I built these tools to benefit the community.. So I'll let them run it for the Chinese community with attribution back to my site.

[wind garden]

portland is the city that frequently ends up in the news because of how dumb our protestors are though

standing in the middle of the freeway and getting hit by cars

[mortal bone]

I don't have to deal with downtown, so I am happy lol

[wind garden]

Hillsburito ftw

[mortal bone]

time to work for Intel

[wind garden]

yup

[mortal bone]

http://poeskilltree.com/ looking close to a real site lol

[wind garden]

is it just the skill tree?

[mortal bone]

ye

[grave wren]

casual 100% gpu usage

[mortal bone]

works on mobile as well

[grave wren]

apparently i need a better gpu than a 970

[mortal bone]

Hmm...

it should be fine

[fickle yew]

Nice. When can I put it on ninja? 😃

[mortal bone]

lol almost 😛

[fickle yew]

What's the goal of building it?

[mortal bone]

just a project in typescript tbh

[grave wren]

had to close poe to make it usable

weird

[mortal bone]

well, webgl

I can add an option to force canvas as well if needed

let me tone down the tiled background

that tends to help with draw calls

[grave wren]

seems to sit on 27% gpu when my 970 is idling otherwise

i'd just remove the tiled bg tbh

doesn't add anything does it?

[fickle yew]

Works really nice. Takes a bit to init.

[mortal bone]

Yeah, I need to add a loading bar

[deft jolt]

Seems to take up 20% cpu while idling

[mortal bone]

that is just textures being cached

[grave wren]

as soon as i open up poe the site is unresponsive - might just be my 970 at it's limits then 🤷

[steep latch]

Greg Young ripping apart lots of enterprise development patterns - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2KLFlM_Z4I

[mortal bone]

I will see if I can't get the GPU usage back down

[slate fulcrum]

Hey, can anyone point me to an an algorithm that can create a tree similar to Delve's?

[quaint stream]

has anyone tried modding/extending the poe trade macro?

seems like it could be a nightmare with those ahk scripts but maybe the codebase is vigilant enough

[grave wren]

https://github.com/PoE-TradeMacro/POE-TradeMacro

can just fork

[civic yew]

That skill tree is great!

[worthy cape]

Dream fork of TradeMacro is one that shows the info in a window on the other monitor, or drives an UI on a networked computer, so I can play in Fullscreen. 😃

[woeful sphinx]

Looks great @mortal bone! With that and my computation rework, maybe we'll have a complete online PoESkillTree someday. 😄

[simple ravine]

Blazor

[civic yew]

There's a console wrapper for AHK that you can modify trade macro with to make output post there instead, which would allow it to be on another monitor.

And blazor is really neat. Been playing around with it. Mostly the Server and Client setup where it's not bundled into the browser but the UI is updated from server.

[mortal bone]

@woeful sphinx one can hope lol

[plucky palm]

Why was I tagged

[civic yew]

Us console users would greatly appreciate an online poe app. We have some apps but nothing we can just use that is in a browser.

[plucky palm]

Bet he confused my name with yours @mortal bone

[woeful sphinx]

A fully fledged online planner would be great in general, but don't get your hopes up too soon. If it ever happens, it'll be a lot of work implementing all the UI.

[civic yew]

Yeah, I've looked into what would be required to help make something and I personally don't have the time. We just use the pob app on Android, even though it's outdated currently, just the easiest way to import builds on mobile. Poe mate is great for tree planning. We just use the resources that we can. As many of the users have never experienced poe on pc or the tools available. The only thing we are missing tbh.

[grave wren]

any reason why you dont just use the desktop application?

you cant import either way right?

[civic yew]

We try to point people to that, but it's surprising how a huge majority don't have a pc or laptop

I'd say 1% of the users for us use pob

[grave wren]

hm

[civic yew]

Pob on Android does allow pastebin imports

[grave wren]

i'd never use a pob app

[civic yew]

Idk who made it though

[grave wren]

seems weird on such a small screen

[simple ravine]

We try to point people to that, but it's surprising how a huge majority don't have a pc or laptop
You mean Xbox players or?

[civic yew]

It's very easy on a mobile screen

Yeah, Xbox players

[grave wren]

hm

[civic yew]

Like I said, we have a few resources we can use together to get a decent experience for those who don't have a pc or laptop. Would just be great to have one source of it. I'd totally help where I could. All of my free time dev goes into the custom bot that I tried to bring a lot of pc features over to.

[wind garden]

a month in and the public stash api is STILL super delayed

[dark dove]

retik

they're still all on vacay

dont dont get back to late jan

[wind garden]

wat?

late january?

[dark dove]

yh

[wind garden]

a whole company takes a month and a half off?

[dark dove]

its why their support is offline

well this is the only time I can recall them actually going on a break for once

[grave wren]

*tech support

[quaint stream]

where i work our offices in germany basically go dark for the entirety of december and half of january. it seems places other than the US take a lot more breaks

[civic yew]

Pretty well deserved break imo

[grave wren]

at ours we dont go dark

but a lot of people are off

[civic yew]

All of my companies, only the higher ups got time off more than a day before and after Christmas. And new years.

[grave wren]

sounds shit tbh

[quaint stream]

do you work in tech

[civic yew]

Yeah, the best was getting a week off, because they laid half the company off before Christmas lol

[quaint stream]

nice

[civic yew]

1hr drive into work, just to turn around and head home

At least save me the gas money

[simple ravine]

That's some cold stuff. Laying people off before christmas

[civic yew]

FL tech companies at their finest

[simple ravine]

Why are they laying people off now? Recession hitting already?

[civic yew]

This was like 7 years ago

[simple ravine]

oh

[civic yew]

Wouldn't surprise me if that company was still doing it. Owner only cared about his check and bonus.

[wind garden]

Everyone at work took most of december off. But we all get back on Monday.

[simple ravine]

I had 19th dec to 7th of jan

but in Sweden, we're also normally off for 4 weeks in the summer

[worthy cape]

Yup yup.

I took seven weeks one year.

Well, 3 + 4

[simple ravine]

you in sweden, zao?

[worthy cape]

Aye, up north.

[simple ravine]

you have "flex hours" or saved vacation, or just a really good deal?

[worthy cape]

Had too many days saved from the year before I think.

[simple ravine]

ah

[mortal bone]

lol I get 3 weeks a year with a 2 week roll over

7 weeks 😦

[worthy cape]

As for good deals, there's some benefits to working in the public sector.

[simple ravine]

you normally get 5

or 6 without overtime paid

[worthy cape]

Seven was indeed overkill, 4-5 is way more sane.

[mortal bone]

ffs

[worthy cape]

Easy to nolife some of them away in PoE <_<

[simple ravine]

oh you also get 10% or 12% more on your salary during vacation too

[mortal bone]

I am sad

[simple ravine]

I'm fairly certain that US tech salary is normally a bit higher though

so that's that

[steep latch]

https://stackoverflow.com/jobs/salary

[simple ravine]

they don't have architect roles in there 😐

[steep latch]

oh

[worthy cape]

I'm a HPC sysape in academia, so probably a different field from you fine people.

[mortal bone]

oof

that moment when you are underpaid lol

[steep latch]

did you see that on the salary thing I linked emmitt?

[mortal bone]

Yeah

like I said lol underpaid

[simple ravine]

I think this thing is off

[grave wren]

?? 😄

[mortal bone]

erm?

[grave wren]

tried to find out what 2 weeks rollover means

google isnt kind

[mortal bone]

oh

like I can carry 2 weeks of pto that I didn't use the previous year to the next year

[grave wren]

ah

[mortal bone]

oh, whoops it is actually 3 weeks

at the end of the year anything about 120hrs is cashed out

[grave wren]

started after uni and got 30d/year

seems pretty standard in ger

[mortal bone]

yeah, but I only get 7 holidays

[grave wren]

normal for the us?

[mortal bone]

we have 10 federal holidays

correct

[grave wren]

seems super weird to me

[simple ravine]

lol 75th percentile for me says 725,000 SEK (80,870 USD)

I don't get that.

[grave wren]

it's probably worse for lower end jobs, right?

severely underpaid

time to kill the manager

and assert dominance

[simple ravine]

And then I chose backend developer, even though I'm hired as an cloud/system architect

[worthy cape]

@simple ravine Blargh, thanks for reminding me... I got 30% cloud ops in my knee this year 😦

[simple ravine]

The guy to the left of me does the ops/infra, I just determine how software should be built on it

so that's nice

we do here too, but not as much as you guys

[worthy cape]

I pretty much maximized my student loans and had around 40k debt accrued at the end.

[mortal bone]

Yeah, my school loans are something like 34k right now

[worthy cape]

A regular non-lazy human would probably end up at 25?

[simple ravine]

zao how many years of experience would you say you have?

and do you feel fine discussing salary for comparisons sake?

because i've been out of the employment thing for so many years I have no idea what I actually should be having

(was self employed for 5+ years)

[worthy cape]

Been fulltime here for 5-7 years, 35.2k SEK gross/mo.

[simple ravine]

and prior to that, how many years approximately?

[worthy cape]

Before that part-time while finishing studies for the master, so "less".

[simple ravine]

ah ok

[worthy cape]

Remember that this is university, so it's weeeird.

[simple ravine]

well, perhaps not so comparative as I thought it would be (you seem knowledgable)

[worthy cape]

Mate at Tieto makes around the same, anyway.

[simple ravine]

I started freelancing in 2001, but had my first regular job in 2006

So I just say "roughly 15 years", and I have 48 gross

it says I should have 60

brb

[wind garden]

@simple ravine you have a ubiquiti setup at home right?

[simple ravine]

yea

[wind garden]

how do you like it after owning it for a little while?

I thought their products looked awesome but I've talked to two people now that own one of their wifi routers, and they haven't been that impressed.

[simple ravine]

I think it's over-dimensioned for my needs, but I have had no issues, and I like the product and what it can do

There are different ones. Did they buy the mesh thing?

[wind garden]

I think they each have a single access point + gateway

[simple ravine]

or the UAC AP UFO-looking things

[wind garden]

UAC AP

[simple ravine]

Ok. I have had no issues with it.

[grave wren]

had troubles setting one up at my sisters

might've been just faulty for all i know

[simple ravine]

trouble what way?

[grave wren]

always lost connection to it

only solution on the troubleshooting site was resetting and re-pairing

but that didn't work

[simple ravine]

I assume you tried a bunch of bands and that band interference feature etc?

[worthy cape]

I like my Mikrotiks but I wouldn't wish the configuration on anyone else 😄

[grave wren]

i didnt even get until there

it didnt even pair 100%

seemed faulty

i use a fritzbox at home, not even sure if that brand is known outside of german speaking countries

[worthy cape]

Germans I know have talked enough about them 😃

[simple ravine]

You used a cloud key or a windows one?

[grave wren]

win iirc

[simple ravine]

Can't really help much, mine just worked

[grave wren]

yeah heard the same from everyone who has them

that's why i suspect a defective unit

[simple ravine]

But I put mine into a switch and not the gateway

(unifi switch as well)

[grave wren]

ah

well they went for a cheaper AP and that worked OOTB

so it's fine i guess

[simple ravine]

Ok, mine's the Unifi AP-HD <-- Unifi Switch 8 POE-60W <-- Unifi Security Gateway 4P <-- Interwebs

[grave wren]

that's a lot of unifi

[simple ravine]

I had a moment of dilusions of grandeur I guess heh

[wind garden]

i just want a wireless setup in my home where I can get 150mb speeds wherever I'm at

and that seems to be a really difficult requirement to meet

[grave wren]

https://avm.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Global/Produkte/FRITZBox/7490/fritzbox_7490_front_de_800x350.png i have one of those bois

[merry carbon]

What do you guys usually use for coding tools?

[grave wren]

python, java - depends on what i want to do

[simple ravine]

I use C#, some use python, lua, c++

[merry carbon]

You can code desktop apps in python? or do you use that for back end?

Java is my main lang

[worthy cape]

C++, Rust, Pythong.

[grave wren]

not doing a desktop app

[merry carbon]

Haha

[simple ravine]

I fired up my laptop to do some wifi speedtests

and every frigging time, windows update grinds it

@grave wren how large's your place... amount of rooms etc?

a lot of concrete?

[grave wren]

small but old building so lots of concrete

[simple ravine]

yeah that's a killer

[grave wren]

my wireless headset with a range of 30m doesnt last 1.5 rooms

[simple ravine]

our place's a frigging faraday cage from 1940s

[grave wren]

yeah same

funnily enough the fritzbox works nicely

[simple ravine]

Tell the thing that you're in some asian country, and boom

[grave wren]

microwave mode: enabled

tbh was the most hassle free router i ever had

would buy again

[simple ravine]

nice 🙂

[simple ravine]

https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/a/4571067905

From my phone

[steep latch]

anyone in an exilence group and wants another?

[mortal bone]

just need to add searching and calculating the url

then mostly done

going to do a boat load of clean up

[steep latch]

to which?

[mortal bone]

http://poeskilltree.com/

[steep latch]

nice

[simple ravine]

the feeling when your upload is faster than your download

[fathom spruce]

@wind garden ubiquiti's unifi setup is great and completely overkill for most home users. it's targeted at small-med businesses but can scale up pretty well to large ones

used to use their stuff when I worked for a company deploying temporary networks/wifi setups at lan parties, events, etc

it vs a high end consumer product for a house/apartment would probably give the same result unless there was some special need for something more configurable

[dull laurel]

@mortal bone nice, performs much faster now on zooming and panning

[fickle yew]

@mortal bone even works nice on my phone! Perfect in Chrome on Android but in Firefox I can't zoom further than this..

[dull laurel]

@mortal bone btw, I can suggest netlify for hosting instead of your pc at home. it is really amazing how easy it was to setup a deployment there

[grave wren]

Or just GitHub hosting - works also nicely

[dull laurel]

Haha yes, anything but hosting at home 😄

well except for @simple ravine, since he has 1gbit upstream

[bleak mountain]

@merry carbon it depends on what you are trying to do, Java is perfect for desktop/mobile applications and web backends, but pretty bad at web frontends and don't have many good options for graphics

personally I'm in Java camp for simple deskop applications and servers, JS for web frontends and Unity + C# for anything graphically demanding and cross-platform

[mortal bone]

@fickle yew hmm, I might turn off zoom clamping. It should all be the same though :(

@dull laurel yeah, I might also just get a $3 vps

[steep latch]

I thought someone said in here they were interested in using my PathOfSupporting lib, thought it was either Emmitt, Faust, or thezensei but I can't find it in this chat history, anyone recall or have interest in using it that wants to chat about it?

[mortal bone]

thezensei i do believe

[grave wren]

not a c# user

[mortal bone]

Oh, I think Firefox is handling the zoom instead of the tree (at least some of the time)

[grave wren]

think so too

[mortal bone]

Checking the Always enable zoom feature in Accessibility seems to work a bit better, but that is a dumb work around

[civic yew]

@steep latch I think I could use it. It would help make my PoB parsing in the discord bot a bit cleaner.

[grave wren]

what lang are you using?

[civic yew]

C#

[grave wren]

hm too bad - using python for @regal mural

[civic yew]

Yeah, you and I talked and I was able to port over a hybrid of what you and thezensei does

[grave wren]

yep just forgot about the lang

[grave wren]

ah, added keystones recently

thought it'd drag the performance down but it's pretty much unchanged

[civic yew]

Yeah, I haven't touched the base code in a minute. I want to rewrite what I did and see what I can come up with.

[grave wren]

should do that too sometime in future at least for the output part :<

[civic yew]

I constantly rewrite things lol. I think my bot is on its 4th rewrite since I started it. From the ground up changing the whole design of it each time. Lol

[grave wren]

[civic yew]

I want to learn Python. It's pretty easy to understand, just never played with it.

[grave wren]

worth it imo - at least the basic scripting, and it's decently easy to get into it

[civic yew]

Yeah, it looks easy to jump into. All of the dev guilds, like 90% of them are Python focused lol. The lonely c#er

[grave wren]

dunno i dont enjoy the bload of java when doing my side projects

so i looked out for something nicer to write

[simple ravine]

"good morning"

[civic yew]

Yeah I feel ya on that.

Sup

[simple ravine]

https://now.sh (zeit) gives you a super easy deployment

and pretty cheap I believe

[mortal bone]

I pretty much use python for anything under a couple hundred lines that will be a simple cli

Everything I have so far is purely client side which is nice for server costs

[civic yew]

I just use Net Core now for all of my projects. The 3.0 preview is nice. I hope one day the GUI part can truly be cross platform and not locked to Windows.

[mortal bone]

isn't wpf coming with .net cor 3.0?

[simple ravine]

but not crossplat

[mortal bone]

rip

with wpf going (is) open source it shouldn't be long before it is cross platform

[simple ravine]

there are so many things that needs to happen for that though

[civic yew]

You can use wpf and all form stuff with 3.0 right now, but yeah it's windows only. There are some cross platform libs you can use for GUI, but it's not native

[simple ravine]

a) DirectX needs replacing
b) All the other Win32 integrations like FileDialog, etc

[civic yew]

Yeah, it will be a huge surprise to me if that's ever accomplished tbh

[simple ravine]

and it being good on the first try

[civic yew]

I personally like console for everything so it's no big deal for me.

Yup, but knowing Microsoft it wouldn't be released until it was in a decent state if it was to happen

[simple ravine]

if .NET Framework 4.8 gets .net standard 2.1 support, I don't really care

[civic yew]

4.8 is the last update right?

For framework at least

[simple ravine]

that has yet to be revealed

or yeah, well .NET Core 3.0 ftw

but that's due to be RTM in 2H this year

[civic yew]

I know it's rumored, but framework is used in so many things, that Microsoft can't expect enterprise to redo things in Core

[simple ravine]

I don't think even the .net team can ask Microsoft to port everything to .net core in Windows etc heh

[civic yew]

Hell, the last enterprise team I was on didn't want to update the framework past 3.5

[simple ravine]

that is asking for trouble

[civic yew]

Yup, like I get it takes time but like come on

[waxen musk]

think its possible to make a tool to render hideouts with the info that we have about models?>

since we dont really need skinning for that

(i hope)

[mortal bone]

still need to rigs for the models right?

[steep latch]

not entirely lonely @civic yew F# is a cousin 😃

It's not like being the only gay Eskimo or something

[civic yew]

Ha true, most of them don't even know F# is a thing

[steep latch]

yeah =/

even though I swear it is a ton better

[civic yew]

One guild I'm in has hardcore JS fanbois, and that gets annoying to deal with lol.

I still have your link saved for F#, haven't had a chance to look at it yet

[grave wren]

i dont see the benefit of being so close minded 🤷

but a lot of devs really are

[steep latch]

JS isn't so bad, if you use F# to generate it 😃

TypeScript helps

there's a lot of JS generation from F# going on in the F# community

[civic yew]

I just dislike the "JS is the best" attitude some have. Like, no language is perfect, they all have flaws, but you have to be able to admit that

[steep latch]

running F# in Web Assembly to run a 'server' plus generate html and javascript to show in the browser

[civic yew]

That's pretty cool

[steep latch]

F# def has issues, biggest for me are no nameof and no implicit interface implementations

but the things it has that no other language has, afaik... are awesome

[civic yew]

TypeScript looks cool, probably the only way I'd use JS tbh.

[steep latch]

I can stand JS pretty well with the new stuff ECMA 8 I think it is called? allowing ... operator and well, I forgot the other thing in it I really like

() => lambdas are new in it I think? if so that's the other thing I really like in it

just that I start to get into problems with refactorings or a project growing to where it is hard to keep track with no strong typing

[waxen musk]

8?

spread has been there since ES6

[steep latch]

oh, well maybe I'm thinking ES6

[waxen musk]

and arrow functions

yeah

[steep latch]

that's how far out of touch I am with JS lately

last 2 years I've had almost nothing but WPF work 😦

[waxen musk]

theres still some stuff added in later but everyone uses babel anyway so it doesnt really matter which standard youre writing for

[steep latch]

oh yeah, and since I babel for TS I stopped paying attention to ECMA/ES versions

[waxen musk]

i dont bother with TS, though i can see it being useful for collaborating

[steep latch]

Love the new Object.assign and the shortcut of not needing property names when building an object from params or another object.

oh and destructuring syntax

[waxen musk]

still wish we had a functional way of creating objects

like pythons {k => v for ...}

other than using reduce for it

[steep latch]

oh, like generating property names and values from a single function call? instead of an allocation per reduce iteration?

[waxen musk]

yea

[steep latch]

I don't recall python much, didn't ever know a lot of it, but I like the indentation/whitespace awareness 😃

[waxen musk]

well you dont have to allocate on every iteration

but it gets even uglier then

[steep latch]

https://unspecified.wordpress.com/2011/10/18/why-pythons-whitespace-rule-is-right/

[waxen musk]

i hate when people write reduce just to return the original value

[steep latch]

heh

original object, or original value?

[waxen musk]

object. if it was value it would be even dumber

[steep latch]

ah, prefer pure reductions? or is there more to it?

[waxen musk]

i mean, if you do .reduce((a, b) => { a[..] = ..; return a; }, {})

why bother with reduce at all, it just makes it more confusing

[steep latch]

oh a reduction to create an object with specific values I think I'm reading it right?

[waxen musk]

yes

its basically not using an extra line to declare the object. shorter but less readable

[steep latch]

ah, well, I mean, I think I might like that more than one line of code per property

the alternative is only another line? then yeah, sounds bad

[waxen musk]

well yeah you could use a library function to "zip" objects from an array of arrays, but thats not very efficient

[steep latch]

sounds like what Object.Assign does already right? (don't recall casing)

Object.assign probably

oh array of arrays, maybe assign doesn't like that

could reduce on Object.assign 😃

[waxen musk]

yea like reverse of Object.entries

[steep latch]

oh, re: open minded to languages. How else are you going to be able to tell them the pros and cons of any language without know the features in their language to be able to communicate differences effectively

There's possibly people that want to use my new lib or I'd be learning to generate JS from F# more

F#'s type system is amazing and getting to write code that becomes JS with that strong typing system feels awesome

Do any of you guys in here actually play PoE in a group or anything?

[grave wren]

yes group selffound atm with ~20ppl

[steep latch]

group selffound? uh...

Exilence group I guess?

[grave wren]

nope private league - ggg's trade site supports is as well as poeapp

[steep latch]

so... not sure how you mean a group, if it is self found?

[grave wren]

it is a private league where we share everything - so selffound minus the solo

[steep latch]

ah groupfound

[grave wren]

yep

[wind garden]

@mortal bone I'm a bit late to the conversation but wpf won't be coming cross platform. Just too dependent on win apis, like zensei said

[steep latch]

xamarin's version of wpf is xplat

[mortal bone]

There is also mono

[steep latch]

xamarin sits on mono I think

[civic yew]

Is xamarin mono? That would make sense that it is

[simple ravine]

aren't they moving to core?

[mortal bone]

Ah, looks like Xamarin is the mono guys funded by Microsoft

[simple ravine]

microsoft bought xamarin

[delicate ore]

poe needs an OGL port so we can have more linux nerds here too

it's very interesting that we have C# experts though

[mortal bone]

Pretty sure they are on .net standard

[grave wren]

i am developing on unix

am i a nerd yet

or does a mac+linux split not count

[civic yew]

I'm undefined, not a nerd

[mortal bone]

You can't be undefined

You wouldn't be you

[civic yew]

I wouldn't be me if I was defined

[grave wren]

@steep latch https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/506066871821402112/531167739256111104/unknown.png first uber elder in my life and a bit ot 😄

[fickle yew]

@steep latch xamarin doesn't have any wpf afaik? Source: worked for xamarin 🙂

[simple ravine]

@mortal bone .net standard is just a contract (as in interfaces)

[mortal bone]

ah ok

[simple ravine]

which .NET Framework, Mono and .NET Core implements

[fickle yew]

They have a winforms version thats not really usable on OSX.. And then xamarin forms which also uses xaml but mainly targets phones.. And maybe windows now?

[civic yew]

I have to build a mobile app for a client soon, was thinking about trying out Xamarin

[simple ravine]

I dont think it does Windows yet

[fickle yew]

I worked on the ui test side not the xamarin platform though.

@civic yew what's the goal? Android + ios or just writing in c#?

[civic yew]

Honestly, mostly because of the C# and be cross plat. Because knowing this client, it's going to go from one thing, to a lot of other things

[simple ravine]

that is how business works

[fickle yew]

There's 2 options. Either raw xamarin which basically just maps the platform apis directly.

Or xamarin forms if you want to share ui. But is also best if it's not too crazy custom

And ios dev on windows will always be a bit painful due to Apple restrictions

I think I'd lean towards using c# and share business logic and then build the 2 uis with raw xamarin.. But that's just me. A bit less magic.

[civic yew]

Ha, yeah. This client has been... interesting to work for, to say the least.

[fickle yew]

But it's been years since I used either.

I figure they matured quite a bit under ms

[civic yew]

That's what I want to do, actually. Basically all the business logic is shared, and then just make the UI for each platform

[fickle yew]

Yup makes a lot of sense to me

Would use xam forms for quick prototyping though

[civic yew]

I don't want to have to repeat things, and have the logic all over the place

Yeah, you confirmed that I want to try Xamarin. Thanks. Hopefully I can get it all working

[fickle yew]

Maybe also test out app center if you want some ci/cd for your app.

[civic yew]

I'll check that out. I've always been backend/frontend and this will be the first dive into a mobile app

[fickle yew]

Basically vsts / azure devops for mobile apps.

[civic yew]

Ah cool, I like that

[fickle yew]

Again disclaimer.. I'm working on that project.

[civic yew]

Still pretty cool

My first introduction to this client was a silverlight app they wanted written in html

[fickle yew]

Uh long running project?

[civic yew]

Yeah, I'm still working on the first part of it, that was a tiny piece, and it was months ago

[fickle yew]

Maybe React + React Native would work for a project like that?

[civic yew]

Basically, an always connected app, they want to make offline. In the browser. So my life has been hell the last few months, lol.

[fickle yew]

Many restrictions against using pwa tech or?

Supporting legacy browsers that is.

[simple ravine]

oh enterprise companies with low-energy tech division wanting to use IE for GPOs is my guess

so normal

[civic yew]

It's a weird system. I'm half tempted to scrap everything and try making it into a native app instead. It's a pita.

Basically, it's a hospice care company so they track everything the nurses do. Thing is, you can't tie any data to each other without multiple db calls because of their system. My idea of starting from scratch, they didn't like.

[fickle yew]

Any restrictions on where data can be stored?

Guessing you can't just use some mbaas like firebase?

[civic yew]

As long as it's local, and encrypted, no. It has to function offline and then sync to the master server when it's online.

Current revision has me caching 300mb of data, just to function offline. And there's no way around that.

[fickle yew]

Sounds like a native app would be a good idea.

[civic yew]

Yeah, I'm leaning that way.

[fickle yew]

Although the pwa stuff is improving quickly atm. Google is pushing it hard.

[civic yew]

I'll have to look into that, see if I can leverage it

[fickle yew]

https://developers.google.com/web/progressive-web-apps/

I'm using it for a hybrid desktop / mobile app atm for my own todo / notes.

Works pretty well.

Wrote my own backend and syncer though.

[civic yew]

Thanks, I'll see if I can get it working. The thing that I hate the most is the amount of data I have to store on the device currently. And it being all through the browser makes it slow and clunky

[fickle yew]

Yup

Sounds like a wee bit too much for the current web apps to habflem

Handle.

[civic yew]

The login functionality takes 3 calls to the server, because I have to use their backend that's horribly done. When really it only needs one.

[dull laurel]

oauth?

[civic yew]

Nope, just username/pass

And they store both the password hash, AND the plain text. I told them that's absolutely horrible, and needs to go away. But they need it for some kind of functionality.

[dull laurel]

that sounds horrible.

[civic yew]

Mhmm

[grave wren]

theres never a need for that tbh

[dull laurel]

they just think they need it?

[grave wren]

i heard of some case where they stored it to prevent the user from typing it in chat

absurd logic

[civic yew]

They say they use it so admin can login as that nurse if needed. But admin should be able to create a session under that username, by clicking a button or whatever.

[dull laurel]

indeed! that sounds so funny 😄

[civic yew]

That's how I've handled that type of scenario in the past. Admin just clicks a button next to user, new session is created and they use it as if they're that person. No need to have the plain text pass.

[dull laurel]

And that is the correct way to do it. Because the system does not need the nurses password to identify as her.

[civic yew]

Yup. But they didn't like my pricey quote of redoing their entire backend correctly

[grave wren]

nurse

sounds bad to have that in tbh

[civic yew]

Yeah, it's a bad backend system that I can't touch 😦

[mortal bone]

more or less a full tree: http://poeskilltree.com/

just need to add node searching 😃

code isn't great right now, but https://github.com/EmmittJ/SkillTree_TypeScript

[civic yew]

Works very well on Edge mobile, like, buttery smooth. Edge desktop doesn't like the clicking.

Nvm, was my userscript that broke it

[mortal bone]

whoops, I broke ascendancy classes lol

[grave wren]

poe just got more balanced :3

[civic yew]

Lol

[steep latch]

@grave wren congrats! I've never even seen guardians, shaper, elder, bestiary bosses, delve bosses, or whatever else there is besides regular atziri and uber lab

@fickle yew it's not precisely wpf, but they xamarin lets you write xplat xaml with c# or f#

oh and Betrayal boss'd me bad

boss boss'd me?

[grave wren]

bullied

[wind garden]

Avalonia UI

cross platform xaml, ish

Still in development though

[waxen musk]

any idea whos the author of this? https://github.com/pvaass/poecraft

i mean, other than the obvious answer

[simple ravine]

xaml in itself is xplat

afaik

it is the rendering of the xaml that isn't

[waxen musk]

im trying to figure out how mods are ordered in-game

apparently using the order column is not it

or maybe it is

[simple ravine]

have you tried the order it's in mods.dat?

[waxen musk]

yea i have. i figured it out kinda - first all recipe unlocks, then all unveils, using that order column

meta mods are last, idk why

i made a fork here https://d07riv.github.io/poecraft/

[wind garden]

You need to do the crafting simulator on poecraft.com but add support for setting ilvl

So it will exclude mods that can't be rolled

[waxen musk]

i was thinking of making a new one

[latent wedge]

Looks cool Riv

[hazy fog]

A suggestion pointed out in a question channel that any/all trade indexers may wish to add search functionality for if they don't already: White sockets should count as free space so when you search by RRRGB a WWWRG would show up for example

[dull laurel]

wow, that crafting bench is really nice, both code and the actual look

[deft jolt]

but he already had an io page https://pvaass.github.io/poecraft/

[waxen musk]

yea but i cant make his page display a fork can i?

the code is nice until you read the last line that is 300k symbols long 😄

[mortal bone]

http://poeskilltree.com/

Search is implemented and some stuff is now styled lol

[simple ravine]

ooh regex search 👍

[mortal bone]

Yeah

No other kind :p

[simple ravine]

it uses a bit much CPU though

[mortal bone]

It isn't the search

It is the graphics

I am thinking about using tinting instead

Basically free

[mortal bone]

Oh might be not using webgl

[simple ravine]

It's using 8.5% of my gpu tho

after restarting chrome and the page, it's a bit more chill

until I search

then it goes bananas

i tried the following term: m.* life

the more highlighted nodes, the more CPU and laggy it becomes

[mortal bone]

Yeah

[simple ravine]

seems to be the case when clicking on nodes too

[mortal bone]

this is what I have

same search

[simple ravine]

hm let me try firefox

my firefox is using 18.1% with that search

[mortal bone]

The search is a one time calculation that sets a flag

the only thing that should matter is the number of highlights on each draw cycle

I might actually be able to get away with not drawing the active layer unless something changes

[civic yew]

it locks up edge lol

then it calms down and is usable

[simple ravine]

yeah, wonder if you have to actually redraw it each time?

[mortal bone]

Yeah, I don't think I do

[simple ravine]

this is a decent pc (7700k at 4.5 ghz and a 1080 ti)

[mortal bone]

will take a bit of reworking

[simple ravine]

does it lag for you in firefox after that search when panning too?

[civic yew]

1200mb of ram 15% cpu

[mortal bone]

yeah

The ram is because the textures are being cached by webgl

I should be able to reduce texture size at some point

[civic yew]

yeah, i don't have a good gpu so that's probably my bottleneck tbh

[simple ravine]

there's a cool hidden feature though 😄

[mortal bone]

I can force it to be canvas

[simple ravine]

cold room? highlight more nodes!

[mortal bone]

lol

you joke, but I have started up poe while working to get some extra heat

[simple ravine]

hehe

turn vsync off for extra heat

[mortal bone]

yep

[civic yew]

yeah, it's better on chrome for this pc, as it doesn't lock up after each letter typed lol

[simple ravine]

u have it on github, emmitt?

[mortal bone]

yeah

code is still wip

https://github.com/EmmittJ/SkillTree_TypeScript

need to do some cleanup on a lot of stuff

basically all the optimization stuff like when to draw what

[simple ravine]

alright. well in case i have some time, might give it a pokin-around

[mortal bone]

feel free

don't need to use visual studio since using webpack, but I will assume you will

[simple ravine]

aye

[civic yew]

honestly works really well on my phone, and that's a big plus for me.

[mortal bone]

Yeah, didn't take much work to get it usable tbh

couple events that needed binding/reworked

[civic yew]

thanks for this, as now we have a web version of the tree that's usable for us console plebs. Poe mate works, but i hate having to use apps.

[mortal bone]

Yeah, no problem

feel free to share it around just know there is still some work to be done 😃

[civic yew]

I shared it in our guild, and said it's pretty great!

now if I just had the motivation to work on the bot more lol

[hazy fog]

Not sure if there's any point in telling you @fickle yew but a user reported rmt ads on poeninja https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/174993814845521922/531687866317930506/Screenshot_2019-01-07-09-46-29-376_com.android.chrome.png

[civic yew]

Websites don't really have control of the ads shown. Advertisers can target their ads on certain sites

[mortal bone]

you can block certain websites (sometimes)

alright, highlighting performance should be a ton better

made a couple other performance changes as well

[fickle yew]

@hazy fog thanks.

[lost bane]

can u guys recommend some good timer, where i can save zone times?

[deft jolt]

https://mapwatch.github.io/ should work

[obsidian lark]

We track all your areas with timings and avg over multiple areas and more in Exilence aswell

[lost bane]

thanks

[molten sparrow]

is there any information about arm file format (like hideout.arm, it looks like a layout of hideout) and fmt (3d models?)
thinking about hideout constructor

[worthy cape]

@molten sparrow Don't think I got to arm files, but I have a (partial?) 010 template for fmt files: https://gist.github.com/zao/a1e9d929a91611bb6cdf30d611db38e3

I don't remember if it's one of those that had variants that I couldn't quite parse, or if it was mostly figured out.

[velvet fog]

@worthy cape nice

[molten sparrow]

thanks il try it

[tacit flume]

Is currency cop broken ?

[cobalt whale]

@tacit flume for me it is. I can login but I'm getting some sort of timeout error when getting all the prices

[tacit flume]

I can't even login so

Do you guys know any alternatives ?

[obsidian lark]

Some have used Exilence instead, it's great but i might be biased since i'm the developer 🙂

I know there is Exile Diary and some other tools aswell, dunno what they do though, check in the tools thread on reddit

[tacit flume]

@obsidian lark Well i've been looking at your youtube video. Gonna give it a try. Nice app, I like the material design

I wonder what tech you're using for this app

[obsidian lark]

The app is built in Angular 6 (javascript) and bundled to an exe using Electron. The backend is .NET Core 2.2 (C#) and then we use Redis as a temporary storage

[tacit flume]

Nice I've tryed angular but I've choosen vue.js for my projects (I'm web dev) Never tryed electron before. I've done few tools in C# with WPF but was very tidius

[obsidian lark]

Yea, the first version of Exilence was accually in WPF but i just despise the XAML layout stuff and so it was easier just going with Angular and Electron.

[tacit flume]

Yeah XAML is really not friendly

I remember spending hours to get a simple explorer like view working

[obsidian lark]

Yep, the nice thing about Electron is that it's basically a browser, We just load the Angular app like a regular web. As a bonus we got access to some OS stuff aswell through electron so we can read the client.txt and more.

[tacit flume]

Isn't it discord who's using electron too ?

[obsidian lark]

Yup, and Slack, VSCode, Atom and so on

[tacit flume]

I really like the 1 Code Multiple plateform solutions emerging nowdays

Anyway your app did what I needed so thank you ! @obsidian lark

[obsidian lark]

Glad you like it!

[worthy cape]

Good thing I've got 32 GiB of RAM in this machine, might be able to squeeze in Exilence 😉

[cobalt whale]

I'm downloading Exilence right now. Finally a tool that can replace CurrencyCop!

That has been broken for far too long now

[worthy cape]

@obsidian lark Regarding code signing, I used to get free Open Source Developer ones from CERTUM in the past.

I think the subject is fixed to something like "Open Source Developer, Firstname Lastname" or something.

[cobalt whale]

@obsidian lark Amazing tool you've made! I'll be using this!

[obsidian lark]

@worthy cape Thanks will check that out for sure! Would be sweet to get rid of that installation popup

@cobalt whale Thanks for the kind words, let me know if you have any questions.

[cobalt whale]

@obsidian lark I found a bug that is not a big problem for me. But for a streamer it could be bad. When restarting the program it doesn't check if you're masked

When I reopen the page it is masked. But this is the initial state

[obsidian lark]

Yea, that should be a setting we haven't got around to do it yet. It was kinda hotfixed for when ZiggyD started using the app. Il add it to the backlog. thanks!

[wind garden]

@chrome topaz have you noticed the red toast icon not always showing up on chrome tabs when live search items pop up? I hear the notification sound, but don't see which tab the notification came from.

[thorn seal]

anyone here uses poe addon launcher? it's failing to d/l all the time and i suspect its permissions. i actually have to delete the entire %appdata folder every time i run it to get it to work and that deletes all my preferences so it's as good as being completely broken for me atm

[chrome topaz]

@wind garden haven't heard of that issue

what version?

[wind garden]

of chrome?

71.0.3578.98

[chrome topaz]

yeah

[wind garden]

it doesn't appear to happen all the time, usually refreshing the tab fixes it