#tooldev-general | Path of Exile 1 & 2 | Page 59

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:35 AM

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Ok, let's do a little math excercise... Currently the river is about 129 GB per day (according to what people say about 1.5 MB/s)

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:36 AM

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That's < 5TB

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a month that's literally nothing

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:36 AM

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That is 3.8 TB of data per month.
Assume we have 1,000 people using a sniper. That is 3.8 PB of data transmitter per month.

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:37 AM

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Yeah nothing

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:37 AM

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Check what that would cost with SQS

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:37 AM

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That's also unoptimized and could be reduced

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That's if you use SQS yeah

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:39 AM

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3800000 GB x $0.05

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nothing.

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:39 AM

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Its less than an engineer in SF

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😄

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:40 AM

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u pay $190k a month for an engineer in SF

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:40 AM

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😄

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:40 AM

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top kek

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san francisco is dooomed

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:40 AM

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900 * 0.5 = 450 USD

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pretty much aligns with what I thought

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that's just gzipped though

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:41 AM

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900 is what, and 0.5 is what

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:41 AM

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1 m free

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:41 AM

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that's just the requests

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:42 AM

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that's for polling though

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:42 AM

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📎 unknown.png

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:42 AM

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I said streaming data

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Which is a different method of sending data

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We can continue arguing SQS price if you want but it has calculators

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It really is

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You'd be better off building your own infra

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:43 AM

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data egress will cost you no matter what

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:43 AM

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Except when it comes to Postgres

compact isle Dec 20, 2017, 4:43 AM

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btw I fixed the poe/trade delay on livesearch 😄 I leave for a week and everything gets slow

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:44 AM

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@compact isle i know that feel

compact isle Dec 20, 2017, 4:44 AM

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hah that'd be nice

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:45 AM

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rm -rf ~

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:45 AM

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$210,000 data egress cost

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:45 AM

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I like how you're pulling numbers out of thin air

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:45 AM

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yes, assuming 1,000 consumers

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so it could grow more, or be less

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:45 AM

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30 gb of gzipped data for 1,000 consumers is not 210,000 a month

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:46 AM

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slice that in 4, and it's still a chunk of change

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:46 AM

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I pay < 1,000 for petabytes

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:46 AM

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there are different kind of petabytes

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:46 AM

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you've got to be doing some wacky tabacky

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but why poll that's dumb for this kind of information

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:47 AM

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compatibility

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:47 AM

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yeah but why are you guys so stuck to SQS

compact isle Dec 20, 2017, 4:47 AM

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xyz said he had 12.5k websocket connections at the start of Abyss

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:47 AM

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lol

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:47 AM

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like stop

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:47 AM

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first u say "should use SQS"

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:47 AM

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I said

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:47 AM

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then "why use SQS"

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:47 AM

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You could use it

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Bye bye real-time that was the plan all along

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Take down poe.trade

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is being semi-sarcastic </s>

mortal bone Dec 20, 2017, 4:50 AM

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I don't think it will do anything to poe.trade lol

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:50 AM

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It'll maybe add another 10% to it

mortal bone Dec 20, 2017, 4:51 AM

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The browser is limited to ~250 web sockets, so have fun

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Sure

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:51 AM

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meh just spawn headless browsers

mortal bone Dec 20, 2017, 4:51 AM

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The thiing is any more connections than that ban

compact isle Dec 20, 2017, 4:52 AM

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I mean, xyz can just limit your connections by IP

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:52 AM

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vpns make that easy to get around

compact isle Dec 20, 2017, 4:52 AM

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if you start using proxies to get around that then you need to start reflecting on your life

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:52 AM

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hell even aws does with dynamic ips

mortal bone Dec 20, 2017, 4:52 AM

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You also have a problem searching for over 200 items

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You can't realistically buy that many items

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True

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:53 AM

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to be honest is building out a server farm that scrapes a site and avoids banning by limiting access time and doing server mesh across multiple cloud platforms and vpns really at that point a script kiddie

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:53 AM

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yeah lol

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:54 AM

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I don't know that's kind of a complicated architecture to be fair to the script kiddie

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:54 AM

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a) you don't need a server farm in the sense of consensus

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:54 AM

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you could kind of get some of it going with kubernetes and headless chrome

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:54 AM

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b) you can just use luminati or something

mortal bone Dec 20, 2017, 4:54 AM

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The thing is, if you go through poe.trade or similar you are now at the mercy of the indexer that is public

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You don't have a time advantage

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Which is the point of this change

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:55 AM

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a beefy server can do it all, just roundrobin to a bunch of proxies u buy

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:55 AM

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well yeah the person who uses a single server is a script kiddie

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but the person who builds a resilient server mesh isn't

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was my point

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:56 AM

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you don't need a server mesh

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:56 AM

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thats the point

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:56 AM

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and today, there are templates for kubernetes, mesosphere / dcos, etc

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click and launch

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:57 AM

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clicks the scrape poe.trade websockets and gain mad exalts button

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:57 AM

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someone could easily make one and distribute, right?

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:57 AM

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thanks 2017

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yeah but then you'd lose out on all your mad exalts

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honestly I've been playing with the idea

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:58 AM

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licoffe distributed his sniper

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:58 AM

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of scraping trade chat

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:58 AM

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same philosophy

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:58 AM

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and blasting people who try and scam people for currency

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:58 AM

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you can't in most WTS cases

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items are replaced with underscore

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:58 AM

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make a site that keeps a record of all scammers

mortal bone Dec 20, 2017, 4:59 AM

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Shouldn't be that hard

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:59 AM

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distributed Rx

mortal bone Dec 20, 2017, 4:59 AM

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Need more efficient filtering

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:59 AM

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prior to storage

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and you can go sub-second

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 4:59 AM

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wtb orb of regret 2:1

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thats a scam

mortal bone Dec 20, 2017, 5:00 AM

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Xyz sends before indexing

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 5:00 AM

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indeed, some consequenses/tradeoffs to that

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 5:00 AM

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every time i look at trade chat makes me want to do it

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 5:00 AM

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it's not scamming if you bid for something

mortal bone Dec 20, 2017, 5:00 AM

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The indexer and the live searcher deal with the data at the same time

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 5:00 AM

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if I want to sell you my car for $500,000

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and you accept

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 5:01 AM

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I agree with you, until you get into people who don't know better

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 5:01 AM

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it's not a scam, you're just stupid you're paying $400k-something extra for a car you can get somewhere else

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 5:01 AM

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Falling for traps

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percolator

mortal bone Dec 20, 2017, 5:02 AM

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I'll percolate you

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 5:02 AM

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now i want coffee

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 5:02 AM

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so if I start selling something for less to disturb the market

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everyone else would be a scammer, who didn't adjust their pricing

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 5:02 AM

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price gouging?

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 5:03 AM

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that's the opposite

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 5:04 AM

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whatever the opposite is

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@polar island you could use GCP pub/sub

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https://cloud.google.com/pubsub/

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you're fucked

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you'd have to make a queue system on your side though

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which isn't too bad

pseudo ocean Dec 20, 2017, 5:05 AM

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why not just take the avg price from all -> put those on top

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 5:05 AM

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you could be considered "price fixing" or "favoring"

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I'd rather just do an auction house

pseudo ocean Dec 20, 2017, 5:06 AM

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I'm not really against currency auction house with buy -> sell orders

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 5:06 AM

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it honestly seems like a fun "side trading site"

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rather than the traditional indexers

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 5:06 AM

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please add ah with apis

gritty olive Dec 20, 2017, 5:06 AM

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no apis 😄

mortal bone Dec 20, 2017, 5:06 AM

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Lol we talked about this a little

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 5:06 AM

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without the limitations

mortal bone Dec 20, 2017, 5:07 AM

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Yeah, still need humans right now

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 5:07 AM

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imma hft the bamboozle out of ya'll

mortal bone Dec 20, 2017, 5:07 AM

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No api to trade

pseudo ocean Dec 20, 2017, 5:07 AM

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you can place the items into a vendor with a price, and the player goes to the vendor in ur hideout

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boom

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 5:09 AM

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why not take it one step further

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take it to Maramosa in A3 or something

pseudo ocean Dec 20, 2017, 5:09 AM

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😦

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 5:09 AM

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she'll sell it for you

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but once the price is set, you can't back out 😄

pseudo ocean Dec 20, 2017, 5:10 AM

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price locked for 30mins~

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 5:10 AM

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or.. you have 1 minute to change the price, but you can't take it out

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once that minute has passed, the price is fixed for 7 days

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(in case of typos)

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sounds like people can start playing, rather than trading

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it's a bit difficult now though when you let the genie out of the bottle with the trade api

chrome topaz Dec 20, 2017, 5:32 AM

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I only got gigabits in north korea, hmu if interested

mortal bone Dec 20, 2017, 6:17 AM

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definitely interested

pseudo ocean Dec 20, 2017, 6:29 AM

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where only maybe 1~mbit works

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🤔

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 7:19 AM

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📎 6895410666.png

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measuring internet speed is difficult in browsers

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over certain speeds

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 7:42 AM

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David Brevik (creator of Diablo) and his wife is streaming PoE on Twitch.

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o m g

mortal bone Dec 20, 2017, 7:45 AM

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you do know he is a consultant for GGG right?

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 7:45 AM

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he just mentioned that

mortal bone Dec 20, 2017, 7:46 AM

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Ye

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they brought him on a while back

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 7:46 AM

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His keynotes are the best

mortal bone Dec 20, 2017, 7:47 AM

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very talented guy

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gave a nice Postmortem at GDC 2016

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of Diablo*

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 7:49 AM

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yeah i saw that one

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it was an entertaining keynote

frigid thorn Dec 20, 2017, 9:10 AM

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@simple ravine Hälsningar from Täby.

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 9:12 AM

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wassaa

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I'm not in Kista though, that's just the closest thing

smoky temple Dec 20, 2017, 4:35 PM

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Bahnhof? Thats german

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:37 PM

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The company was founded in Sweden in 1994, bud

smoky temple Dec 20, 2017, 4:53 PM

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^^ its a german word its the station where trains arrive 😃

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 4:53 PM

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well the name is german yeah, train station

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahnhof

smoky temple Dec 20, 2017, 4:53 PM

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yeah i am actually austrian so my native language is german 😉

simple ravine Dec 20, 2017, 6:00 PM

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fun fact - They have one of the coolest datacenters I've seen

velvet fog Dec 21, 2017, 12:21 AM

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http://poedb.tw/us/unique.php?n=Oni-Goroshi

wind garden Dec 21, 2017, 12:30 AM

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Where's the stats?

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 12:36 AM

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the stats aren't known

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Charan's Sword

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that guy...

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https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/7l1dqo/charan_posted_the_stats_of_his_new_sword_oni/

Charan posted the stats of his new sword Oni Goroshi, ~700dps at level 90 with 45% of life taken as fire • r/pathofexile

344 points and 479 comments so far on reddit

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@velvet fog

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might be able to work with that

gilded herald Dec 21, 2017, 12:41 AM

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wait it's one handed? wtf

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 12:41 AM

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disables offhand

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like the others

gilded herald Dec 21, 2017, 12:41 AM

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ahh gotcha.

wind garden Dec 21, 2017, 1:20 AM

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the reddit post talks about it counting as both 1h and 2h

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do we know whether it's just 1h or not?

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📎 1TD27ssLHLSM2h3mxKlDsPUV1ZAiazIqW-LMBFdNf_w.png

velvet fog Dec 21, 2017, 1:26 AM

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it's 1h

wind garden Dec 21, 2017, 1:27 AM

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ya looks like it

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how do you get it besides div card?

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seems like it drops only in twilight strand?

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 1:27 AM

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twlight strand lol

velvet fog Dec 21, 2017, 1:27 AM

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http://poedb.tw/us/item.php?cn=One+Hand+Sword listed as one hand sword

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 1:27 AM

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rarity scales with levels

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not sure if down or up

wind garden Dec 21, 2017, 1:28 AM

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so it's not a crazy puzzle like TGU was?

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 1:29 AM

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that recipe is disabled

wind garden Dec 21, 2017, 1:31 AM

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right

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so I guess it's just a normal drop, that only drops in the twilight strand

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great....

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 1:32 AM

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from hillock from the looks of it

wind garden Dec 21, 2017, 1:32 AM

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lol

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that's hilarious

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 1:32 AM

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it is the sword he pulls from his chest

wind garden Dec 21, 2017, 1:32 AM

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what starting character can kill hillock the fastest?

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 1:33 AM

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hillock is lvl 2, so you can get a portal scroll

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you can port people in with rarity gear to cull him

wind garden Dec 21, 2017, 1:33 AM

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hmm helps a little

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 1:33 AM

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maybe

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the best chance maybe be at lvl 1 or 100

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charan didn't say

wind garden Dec 21, 2017, 1:54 AM

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how do you get a portal scroll on the twilight strand?

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get really lucky?

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 1:56 AM

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hillock can drop them

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he is level 2

wind garden Dec 21, 2017, 2:00 AM

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but if you have to kill hillock to get a portal scroll, doesn't that mean you can't cull himi?

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oh, do you just log out?

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 2:02 AM

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yes

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5 min reset on his zone

wind garden Dec 21, 2017, 2:15 AM

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haven't found a portal scroll yet

gritty olive Dec 21, 2017, 3:43 AM

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This is cool

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http://he.net/3d-map/

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 3:51 AM

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@fickle yew The new div card (Rebirth) shows up as the prophecy with the same name

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I am assuming this might break some other things with them as well

wind garden Dec 21, 2017, 5:54 AM

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@chrome topaz i think poe.trade has the same issue

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i saw a card on the river but poe.trade doesn't have a single one listed for trade

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i farmed hillock for 30min with 479 inc rarity

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didn't get a single unique :/

gritty olive Dec 21, 2017, 6:21 AM

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Sometimes I feel like there is a "sweet spot" for rarity

simple ravine Dec 21, 2017, 6:35 AM

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the sweet spot is over 9000

fickle yew Dec 21, 2017, 6:47 AM

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@mortal bone thanks I'll take a look

gilded dove Dec 21, 2017, 8:55 AM

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is there a way to get current character's exp value?

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apart from the obvious mouse hover and type it out of course

simple ravine Dec 21, 2017, 9:18 AM

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There's no chat command or anything, no

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 9:29 AM

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If you are on the ladder you can get the current exp through the ladder api

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not sure if you can get character information any other way

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well, https://www.pathofexile.com/character-window/get-characters?accountName=<AccountName> will give you a list

simple ravine Dec 21, 2017, 9:31 AM

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it doesnt seem to include xp though

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 9:31 AM

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nope

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just level

simple ravine Dec 21, 2017, 9:36 AM

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@compact isle Do you know of a way to get current exp of a character programmatically?

compact isle Dec 21, 2017, 9:37 AM

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not in an exposed way no

simple ravine Dec 21, 2017, 9:37 AM

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Okay, thanks

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 9:38 AM

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yeah ladder api is the only thing

chrome topaz Dec 21, 2017, 1:03 PM

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@wind garden i added it but might still be broken

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 1:11 PM

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@chrome topaz https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/7l7qru/i_got_onigoroshi_but_i_dont_know_how_to_build_it/drk6zk7/

I got Oni-Goroshi but i don't know how to build it. Can you guys help me pls. I usually play mathil builds :< • r/pathofexile

0 points and 37 comments so far on reddit

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too bad you are being sketchy lol

chrome topaz Dec 21, 2017, 1:15 PM

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was that ever a question

chrome topaz Dec 21, 2017, 4:18 PM

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📎 image.png

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🤔

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@compact isle ^

wind garden Dec 21, 2017, 5:35 PM

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That's the problem with a whitelist, people start to question who deserves to be on the list or not.

pseudo ocean Dec 21, 2017, 5:54 PM

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Im not sure what teh stance is on moding and using tools with PoE but i know we are allowed to use item filters. Is there anything we can use that will allow better visability of Abyss veins, i often hear then crask open after the first one, but there are so many enemies on screen i can never see it till its too late.

deft jolt Dec 21, 2017, 6:01 PM

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Nope

keen marten Dec 21, 2017, 6:01 PM

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Look at your mini map, the icon for the abyss moves to a new location

pseudo ocean Dec 21, 2017, 6:05 PM

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ty

wind garden Dec 21, 2017, 7:23 PM

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oh snap

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stash API delay is finally working

simple ravine Dec 21, 2017, 7:23 PM

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rip

wind garden Dec 21, 2017, 7:23 PM

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weird to post a 6L bow for 3ex and not get a single whisper for 60 seconds

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seems snipers haven't really switched to poe.trade yet

simple ravine Dec 21, 2017, 7:24 PM

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most people who snipe just steal someone's code and probably might not be aware?

wind garden Dec 21, 2017, 7:24 PM

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probably not

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time to make a killing

simple ravine Dec 21, 2017, 7:26 PM

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guessing you've already refactored ur sniper to use something like poeapp or poetrade?

wind garden Dec 21, 2017, 7:26 PM

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of course

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except it's not working lol

simple ravine Dec 21, 2017, 7:27 PM

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hah

wind garden Dec 21, 2017, 7:27 PM

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i've been distracted playing around with large amounts of historical stock data

simple ravine Dec 21, 2017, 7:30 PM

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done the same, and also with real time data

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quite interesting

chrome topaz Dec 21, 2017, 8:16 PM

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time to start charging people per livesearch-minute

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 8:30 PM

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5 free sockets lol

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An additional $15 for every socket after that

simple ravine Dec 21, 2017, 8:33 PM

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haha, yeah.

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please try that @chrome topaz

winter fossil Dec 21, 2017, 8:38 PM

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📎 image.png

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Really optimized now. I just need to make it render everything right 😃

chrome topaz Dec 21, 2017, 8:42 PM

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the render takes under 1ms?

winter fossil Dec 21, 2017, 8:44 PM

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6-10ms ~ to memory (all visable tiles on the screen). Then each tile caches from memory. And what's rendered is the caches

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So it's 9 images

chrome topaz Dec 21, 2017, 8:44 PM

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i see

winter fossil Dec 21, 2017, 8:49 PM

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the "spikes" are barely noticeable too, so that's nice. But I also learned that Resource Limits are a thing for mobiles... So I have to rewrite how it renders to memory. It currently only works for a zoom that's less than 0.1 lol

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 9:42 PM

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@chrome topaz rendering shouldn't ever take too long

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Everything about the tree is static

wind garden Dec 21, 2017, 9:44 PM

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sweeeet got me a sword

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rip farming hillock

winter fossil Dec 21, 2017, 9:55 PM

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@mortal bone Pretty much this, the only real difficult was to also make it render at good framerate on mobile

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 9:58 PM

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how does it look in safari lol

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I hate that browser

winter fossil Dec 21, 2017, 10:11 PM

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Mobile or desktop?

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 10:12 PM

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both are awful

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mobile mostly though

winter fossil Dec 21, 2017, 10:12 PM

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mobile sucks imo

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 10:13 PM

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would be easier to just do native

winter fossil Dec 21, 2017, 10:16 PM

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What do you mean? c:

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 10:16 PM

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make an ios app if you wanted to go mobile

winter fossil Dec 21, 2017, 10:20 PM

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Nha, that ruins the whole point of this project :)
The goal is to make a PoE planner that works good on both mobile and desktop.

simple ravine Dec 21, 2017, 10:23 PM

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Risk is that you're going to please nobody instead of everybody 😉

winter fossil Dec 21, 2017, 10:26 PM

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Mhe, there's no risk in that. It is what it is, doing it for fun. The goal is not to make a new groundbreaking application for PoE, not sure if it's ever going to be released

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 10:27 PM

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Always fun to learn new tech

simple ravine Dec 21, 2017, 10:27 PM

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Those are great ambitions! Go for it

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 10:27 PM

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you should definitely release it though if it is functional lol

winter fossil Dec 21, 2017, 10:30 PM

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^^ will probably take a while tho haha

simple ravine Dec 21, 2017, 10:35 PM

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in the meanwhile, PoeSharp is coming along slowly but steadily

chrome topaz Dec 21, 2017, 10:35 PM

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it shouldn't but it do

simple ravine Dec 21, 2017, 10:36 PM

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wat?

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 10:40 PM

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He is talking about rendering

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I have never had a problem with C# and DrawingVisuals

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HTML5 Canvas on the other hand...complete poo

simple ravine Dec 21, 2017, 10:42 PM

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UWP's rendering performance is decent

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 10:43 PM

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haven't messed with it too much

simple ravine Dec 21, 2017, 10:43 PM

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too bad people afraid of change and stick with Windows 7

chrome topaz Dec 21, 2017, 10:47 PM

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I wasn't afraid of change and installed win 10 pro and then Microsoft installed candy crush, Plex, get office, Skype, some noname video player and a password manager that leaks all my passwords

simple ravine Dec 21, 2017, 10:48 PM

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leaked them where

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it didn't install Plex, video player or password manager for me

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granted it did install some game and a link to get office installed

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and that annoyed me somewhat

chrome topaz Dec 21, 2017, 10:50 PM

#

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/12/microsoft-is-forcing-users-to-install-a-critically-flawed-password-manager/

simple ravine Dec 21, 2017, 10:50 PM

#

but i wouldn't go back to windows 7

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 10:50 PM

#

I upgraded from win 7 and only had skype for business get installed

#

never had a password manager get installed

chrome topaz Dec 21, 2017, 10:50 PM

#

it did install Plex last time i reinstalled

#

I'm rocking a gpu passthrough setup now so it's cool

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 10:51 PM

#

for your passwords? lol

simple ravine Dec 21, 2017, 10:51 PM

#

this guy is the most paranoid i've met in quite a while, i swear

chrome topaz Dec 21, 2017, 10:52 PM

#

for windows, what do you mean passwords?

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 10:52 PM

#

you would be too if you were making millions off a site lol

#

Oh, ok

#

I was really confused

chrome topaz Dec 21, 2017, 10:52 PM

#

check out https://reddit.com/r/vfio it's pretty cool tech

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 10:53 PM

#

thanks, I will

chrome topaz Dec 21, 2017, 10:57 PM

#

you can run linux and have windows in a vm and have it use the gpu and other hw directly

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 11:03 PM

#

How is the card support?

chrome topaz Dec 21, 2017, 11:21 PM

#

what do you mean? you give the card to windows

#

you need a fairly modern gpu though, well it's all explained on that reddit

shell elk Dec 21, 2017, 11:21 PM

#

2018 the year of the linux desktop

chrome topaz Dec 21, 2017, 11:22 PM

#

every year

#

i3 ❤

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 11:22 PM

#

EH

#

What desktop flavor are y'all running?

chrome topaz Dec 21, 2017, 11:28 PM

#

https://i3wm.org/

#

if you want windows-like try gnome3 + https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/1160/dash-to-panel/

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 11:35 PM

#

I haven't messed with anything but ubuntu and a long time ago at that

chrome topaz Dec 21, 2017, 11:38 PM

#

vfio is pretty far away from click-n-play

#

you gonna be using power of terminal and debugging

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 11:39 PM

#

I am pretty comfortable with linux terminal

#

centOS and RedHat

chrome topaz Dec 21, 2017, 11:41 PM

#

meanwhile, the lag is back

#

📎 chart.png

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 11:41 PM

#

what are you using to graph?

#

also is this item per request?

chrome topaz Dec 21, 2017, 11:42 PM

#

zabbix

#

and yes

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 11:42 PM

#

those seem to vary way too much

chrome topaz Dec 21, 2017, 11:43 PM

#

not really, other than spikes, it's okay

#

anything below 5k is "realtime"

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 11:45 PM

#

15 minutes of backlog is that what I am seeing?

chrome topaz Dec 21, 2017, 11:47 PM

#

depends what time period you're talking about

wind garden Dec 21, 2017, 11:48 PM

#

inbefore delaying the api is too stressful on GGG's servers to keep up....

#

that would be....ironic

chrome topaz Dec 21, 2017, 11:48 PM

#

maybe they just had server backups disabled and only now noticed

#

that'd be way worse you know

wind garden Dec 21, 2017, 11:48 PM

#

idk

#

but GGG has way too many issues that are a side effect of everything on their webside/api being tied directly to game servers

chrome topaz Dec 21, 2017, 11:50 PM

#

hey you gotta admit, at least their own trade system doesn't crash the game

#

i half expected it to cause problems

mortal bone Dec 21, 2017, 11:52 PM

#

does it not use the same api?

chrome topaz Dec 21, 2017, 11:55 PM

#

i've no idea

#

if you look at returned json there's "psapi" mention

#

so maybe?

wind garden Dec 22, 2017, 12:50 AM

#

@timid hemlock are you adding support for Oni-Goroshi?

timid hemlock Dec 22, 2017, 12:50 AM

#

Aye, it's already coming in the next update

wind garden Dec 22, 2017, 12:50 AM

#

cool

#

eta? 😃

timid hemlock Dec 22, 2017, 1:02 AM

#

When It's Done (c)

#

Err, but probably sometime today 😛

#

That being AU time

wind garden Dec 22, 2017, 1:21 AM

#

mmk

#

@mortal bone you know a good way to get a list of every base item?

mortal bone Dec 22, 2017, 1:22 AM

#

https://github.com/brather1ng/RePoE

GitHub

brather1ng/RePoE

RePoE - Repository of Path of Exile data for tool developers

#

pretty sure the data folder has everything you want

#

could be wrong

wind garden Dec 22, 2017, 1:23 AM

#

k thx

gritty olive Dec 22, 2017, 1:31 AM

#

gems don't have quests :/

wind garden Dec 22, 2017, 2:56 AM

#

hmm neither RePoE or PyPoE had a list of base item types

obtuse citrus Dec 22, 2017, 3:10 AM

#

uhm, BaseItemTypes.dat

#

just read it via PyPoE and take whatever you need

noble siren Dec 22, 2017, 3:17 AM

#

Is there anyway to extract real mod names in game from RePoE's mods.json file?

tropic shuttle Dec 22, 2017, 7:53 AM

#

look at the translation file

#

@noble siren eg, take the first entry in mods.json: AbyssAccuracyIfNoEnemySlainRecentlyJewel1_ ... notice that it has stat id: "accuracy_rating_+%_if_enemy_not_killed_recently", cross reference this with stat_translations.json, and you will "{0}% increased Accuracy Rating if you haven't Killed Recently"

simple ravine Dec 22, 2017, 10:58 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

Well, that's a bunch of mods indeed.

frigid thorn Dec 22, 2017, 11:08 PM

#

@mortal bone I'm running ubuntu 16.04 on my server, windows 10 on my game desktop and latest macOS on my laptop.

#

So happy that Windows will ship with an ssh client in the future.

simple ravine Dec 22, 2017, 11:08 PM

#

install bash on windows, boom done

frigid thorn Dec 22, 2017, 11:08 PM

#

Also Ubuntu on Windows is really nice, espescially with ConEMU.

mortal bone Dec 22, 2017, 11:09 PM

#

windows has a built in unix console now

frigid thorn Dec 22, 2017, 11:09 PM

#

Unix console? What are you referring to?

mortal bone Dec 22, 2017, 11:10 PM

#

meant bash

#

am tired

obtuse citrus Dec 22, 2017, 11:11 PM

#

they tried an unixsubystem as early as vista

mortal bone Dec 22, 2017, 11:11 PM

#

you have to have windows in dev mode though

#

Yeah, it is a unix subsystem

#

pretty sure it is a ubuntu shell

simple ravine Dec 22, 2017, 11:11 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

it's actually linux user space on windows

mortal bone Dec 22, 2017, 11:12 PM

#

Yeah, it is the entire subsystem

#

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-win10

Install the Linux Subsystem on Windows 10

Installation instructions for the Linux Subsystem on Windows 10.

#

have fun lol

#

will be much better than running cygwin

simple ravine Dec 22, 2017, 11:14 PM

#

I use it mainly to ssh into stuff

gritty olive Dec 22, 2017, 11:14 PM

#

it does until you want to start doing things with external editors

simple ravine Dec 22, 2017, 11:14 PM

#

lol

#

symlink it and edit it a windows editor

#

or use an X11 server like xming

gritty olive Dec 22, 2017, 11:16 PM

#

yeah I didn't want to run an x11 server

#

the amount of effort wasn't enough for the returns at that point

simple ravine Dec 22, 2017, 11:17 PM

#

it's literally google->click->install

gritty olive Dec 22, 2017, 11:17 PM

#

have working system already

#

this requires setting other stuff up

#

yeah just going to stick with what I have

simple ravine Dec 22, 2017, 11:18 PM

#

im happy for you

gritty olive Dec 22, 2017, 11:22 PM

#

?

simple ravine Dec 22, 2017, 11:23 PM

#

that you have a working system already 🙂

gritty olive Dec 22, 2017, 11:24 PM

#

Eh, working system with cygwin is one click, with subsystem its a long process, not worth the returns

#

The insiders has some improvements but you could already do those things without the subsystem, so QoL has improved for it

#

If you go through the issues for WSL a lot of the comments are to use Cygwin based solutions or unsupported third-party programs that you basically can mitigate by just using cygwin. I think WSL is gr8 for running pure server tasks / commands but when you have to do anything with the windows system from WSL, just use cygwin

mortal bone Dec 22, 2017, 11:33 PM

#

I am not too experienced with the WSL, but cygwin was a life saver duing school. It was nice not to have to dual boot

gritty olive Dec 22, 2017, 11:34 PM

#

Same

#

Until I got my hands on a macbook that is

mortal bone Dec 22, 2017, 11:35 PM

#

never went towards the macbook

#

I didn't have an iPhone, so it didn't make too much sense for me

gritty olive Dec 22, 2017, 11:35 PM

#

I never got it for my phone or other things, but because my work just gave me one

mortal bone Dec 22, 2017, 11:35 PM

#

It would have been nice though for my senior project. It was Ruby on Rails, which was a bitch to get running correctly on windows

gritty olive Dec 22, 2017, 11:36 PM

#

It's really nice to work with most of the time, things just "work" without having to do much setup at all which is really nice especially when you just want to do your thing

#

Yeah for ruby it's install chruby (one line) and now you can use any version of ruby / ruby on rails

wind garden Dec 23, 2017, 12:12 AM

#

@simple ravine was the code in that screenshot from the library you're working on?

simple ravine Dec 23, 2017, 12:12 AM

#

yes

wind garden Dec 23, 2017, 12:13 AM

#

nice

simple ravine Dec 23, 2017, 12:13 AM

#

That's the API surface, so far.... alpha state, mind you though.

balmy canyon Dec 23, 2017, 4:52 AM

#

is there a comprehensive list of public api calls any where? https://www.pathofexile.com/developer/docs/api-resources has some, but i have seen others reference ones not on this list

gritty olive Dec 23, 2017, 5:00 AM

#

the other ones are private and subject to drastic changes at any given moment

balmy canyon Dec 23, 2017, 5:16 AM

#

ahh. is there any way to gain acess to them?

mortal bone Dec 23, 2017, 5:22 AM

#

a lot of them require you to be logged into your account

#

such as the personal tab api as well as the character/passives api

balmy canyon Dec 23, 2017, 5:27 AM

#

ahh

frigid thorn Dec 23, 2017, 7:30 AM

#

Mornin'

gritty olive Dec 23, 2017, 8:29 AM

#

morning

mortal bone Dec 23, 2017, 8:45 AM

#

Evening

gritty olive Dec 23, 2017, 8:46 AM

#

its middle of night for me 😦

fickle yew Dec 23, 2017, 6:12 PM

#

@simple ravine share that ggpk c# library already :-)

simple ravine Dec 23, 2017, 6:49 PM

#

Will probably be early January ;9

mortal bone Dec 23, 2017, 8:15 PM

#

What license will you release it under?

#

Pretty keen on getting my hands on it lol

obtuse citrus Dec 23, 2017, 8:49 PM

#

there are libs in visual ggpk if you need somthing now in c#

mortal bone Dec 23, 2017, 8:50 PM

#

More for messing around then something I need right now

#

visual ggpk is kind of clunky

obtuse citrus Dec 23, 2017, 8:54 PM

#

for just messing around using the interactive console in python is fairly useful 😛

simple ravine Dec 23, 2017, 10:03 PM

#

I haven't decided yet, but i'm not closing the door on AGPLv2 et al

mortal bone Dec 23, 2017, 10:07 PM

#

Why v2 and not v3?

gritty olive Dec 23, 2017, 10:07 PM

#

mit

simple ravine Dec 23, 2017, 10:20 PM

#

@mortal bone Oh there's a v3, I wasn't aware. Then that is a candidate

mortal bone Dec 23, 2017, 10:21 PM

#

Honestly, I am not sure the difference. I am just aware of v3 lol

simple ravine Dec 23, 2017, 10:21 PM

#

@gritty olive I don't want to permit commercial/paywall applications, hence MIT might not be my best candidate

mortal bone Dec 23, 2017, 10:22 PM

#

~~GPL can be used in MIT but not the other way around~~ MIT can be used in GPL, but not the other way around

simple ravine Dec 23, 2017, 10:23 PM

#

wait, I can't use libraries based on MIT in a GPL project?

mortal bone Dec 23, 2017, 10:24 PM

#

Sorry, I have that backwards

#

I have now fixed my statement

simple ravine Dec 23, 2017, 10:25 PM

#

hmm, would you want to expand briefly on why?

mortal bone Dec 23, 2017, 10:25 PM

#

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#GPLCompatibleLicenses

#

I assume he meant X11 by saying MIT

simple ravine Dec 23, 2017, 10:31 PM

#

It seems to be compatible

#

Anyways, I want it to be allowed to be used in any non-paywalled applications without restrictions, as long as there's a notice somewhere

mortal bone Dec 23, 2017, 10:35 PM

#

Yeah then something like GNU would prevent that

simple ravine Dec 23, 2017, 10:35 PM

#

Say @fickle yew use it with his site, I wouldn't want to require him to open source his site though

mortal bone Dec 23, 2017, 10:35 PM

#

oh

#

that is an issue

simple ravine Dec 23, 2017, 10:35 PM

#

but GPL-esque prevents that

mortal bone Dec 23, 2017, 10:36 PM

#

Doesn't the apache license allow that?

simple ravine Dec 23, 2017, 10:37 PM

#

https://choosealicense.com/licenses/ <- looking at that right now

mortal bone Dec 23, 2017, 10:37 PM

#

Yep, that is where I go normally

simple ravine Dec 23, 2017, 10:37 PM

#

but i recall seeing a more informative/interactive site for picking a license

mortal bone Dec 23, 2017, 10:38 PM

#

there is a site (or was) that allowed you to pick the terms you wanted and they gave you a license that best fit

simple ravine Dec 23, 2017, 10:39 PM

#

@mortal bone What about LGPL, wouldn't that be something?

gritty olive Dec 23, 2017, 10:39 PM

#

nothing is really stoping them from using it for monetary gain tbh

mortal bone Dec 23, 2017, 10:40 PM

#

Yeah, LGPL allows use in non-open source software

#

You can always modified the license though

simple ravine Dec 23, 2017, 10:40 PM

#

For sure

#

yeah, I think it's a fair license to be honest

mortal bone Dec 23, 2017, 10:47 PM

#

It doesn't prevent your paywalls though

#

You could also dual license your software. Although, this is generally used to have users pay if they don't want to use the main license of the software. If someone doesn't want to use GPL, they can pay you to get rid of the license. You could make this fee a penny or what have you.

#

MySQL does this and a couple others as well

simple ravine Dec 23, 2017, 10:57 PM

#

I'll just pick one and add a "Don't screw people over clause"

mortal bone Dec 23, 2017, 10:58 PM

#

You could put it under CC and add the Non-Profit clause

#

The problem is Creative Commons is a license compatibility nightmare lol

#

https://creativecommons.org/faq/#can-i-apply-a-creative-commons-license-to-software

simple ravine Dec 23, 2017, 11:37 PM

#

ugh

#

licenses is boring

chrome topaz Dec 24, 2017, 12:48 AM

#

non-commercial clause makes your software non-free

#

if you add a "don't screw people over" clause or any non-commercial clause, it won't be compatible with neither GPL nor MIT

chrome topaz Dec 24, 2017, 1:20 AM

#

here's a famous example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Crockford#"Good,_not_Evil"

mortal bone Dec 24, 2017, 2:15 AM

#

Yeah, it is a pain in the ass

chrome topaz Dec 24, 2017, 3:13 AM

#

what people often get confused about is that in free software definition, the freedoms are user freedoms, not developer freedoms

#

so they say "how can GPL be a free license, there's so many restrictions - i have to publish source code!"

#

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html

gritty olive Dec 24, 2017, 4:19 AM

#

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

#

this page describes it better imo

#

git log --all -M -C --name-only --format='format:' "$@" | sort | grep -v '^$' | uniq -c | sort | awk 'BEGIN {print "count,file"} {print $1 "," $2}'

#

useful

mortal bone Dec 24, 2017, 4:44 AM

#

problem is users don't really care about licensing

#

developers are the ones that have to deal with the licenses, and they don't always play well together.

simple ravine Dec 24, 2017, 8:51 AM

#

people are so entitled

fickle yew Dec 24, 2017, 12:06 PM

#

I usually just go for MIT. It's permissive and people can do whatever they want pretty much. I wouldn't really worry about other people making money from my poe code.

frigid thorn Dec 24, 2017, 2:29 PM

#

I'm trying to understand how the public stash API works. Does it just give you a new array of stashes with items in them on every request, from some available shard?

mortal bone Dec 24, 2017, 6:28 PM

#

It gives you the difference, up to x items, from the last time you requested items. There are 5 shards hence the 5 numbers in the id string. Some of these numbers may not change much at all because that shard didn't have any differences

wind garden Dec 24, 2017, 6:57 PM

#

@timid hemlock is there a way to trigger "killed recently" in PoB?

delicate ore Dec 24, 2017, 6:58 PM

#

add an effect that grants it and it should show up in the config

wind garden Dec 24, 2017, 6:58 PM

#

ah you're right

#

i hadn't equipped it yet

waxen musk Dec 25, 2017, 9:01 AM

#

hey is there a good way to pull unique data from the wiki? i know how to get the mods, but im more interested in version history

#

hmm theres ~300 uniques with legacy variants, doesnt seem too bad i guess, thought it was way more

#

oh but the wiki doesnt tell the difference between actual legacy items and items where a mod has been completely replaced -_-

waxen musk Dec 25, 2017, 9:28 AM

#

how come https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/api.php?action=askargs&conditions=Has rarity::Unique&printouts=Has release version&format=json does not list release versions for any item?

velvet fog Dec 25, 2017, 10:40 AM

#

they are inside each page with api

waxen musk Dec 25, 2017, 11:05 AM

#

hm? i see release_version in the page source, but idk how to get it with api

woeful sphinx Dec 25, 2017, 11:56 AM

#

I don't think legacy variants are stored in a way accessible via API. If you look at the source, the legacy tables seem to be manually created and not integrated with anything (e.g. https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/index.php?title=Atziri's_Acuity&action=edit).

waxen musk Dec 25, 2017, 12:04 PM

#

so just the top part with the values is generated?

#

i already have most of the legacy mod data, i just need to fix the version numbers because theyre a mess atm

woeful sphinx Dec 25, 2017, 12:06 PM

#

yep. Though, it does look relatively easy to parse the information you need from the source. If the API can return source of pages, that might be an easy way.

waxen musk Dec 25, 2017, 12:11 PM

#

yea i don't see how to do that, so I'll probably just parse html source

woeful sphinx Dec 25, 2017, 12:17 PM

#

action=raw returns the wikitext (source) of a page. https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/index.php?title=Atziri's_Acuity&action=raw

waxen musk Dec 25, 2017, 12:26 PM

#

thanks!

simple ravine Dec 25, 2017, 2:16 PM

#

I normally use things like 'Domain', 'Application', 'Services' in my namespaces in systems I build... but they feel wrong in libraries

#

(Domain specifically in this case)

#

Because, normally a library is implcitly solving a domain problem, right?

frigid thorn Dec 25, 2017, 2:25 PM

#

What does the stuff in an item name like name: '<<set:MS>><<set:M>><<set:S>>Rift Pace', mean?

simple ravine Dec 25, 2017, 2:26 PM

#

It's 'poe markup code', you can safely strip that off

mortal bone Dec 25, 2017, 2:26 PM

#

It is used for languages

#

Masculine Singular

frigid thorn Dec 25, 2017, 2:27 PM

#

Aah, l18n, thanks.

mortal bone Dec 25, 2017, 2:27 PM

#

Mhm

#

Each language will have their own identifier, but it should be the same within a language

grave wren Dec 25, 2017, 4:27 PM

#

Hi, quick question: trying to retrieve all connected maps to a given map, e.g. bog => [lair, primordial pool], whereas bog upgrades into lair (red), i have no clue where to find the connection to prim.pool (yellow) - any pointers?

📎 unknown.png

#

Ah, got it it's in HigherTierMaps_BaseItemTypesKeys

waxen musk Dec 25, 2017, 9:56 PM

#

hmm do they change stat IDs often? like, the existing ones

#

im tying a lot of logic to specific id's, but i just realised that they probably change them somehow, since surely they didnt name stats "do_not_use" from the start

obtuse citrus Dec 25, 2017, 9:57 PM

#

not often as far as I am aware

#

those do_not_use are from when they changed mechanics

#

like leech

waxen musk Dec 25, 2017, 9:59 PM

#

well ye it makes sense

#

but that means theres some constant ID that never changes, since the item DB has to use it

#

guess its not hard to manually fix the changes with every patch

simple ravine Dec 25, 2017, 10:01 PM

#

I think stats are changed less than mods

#

but that is a guess without much facts backing it up, though

obtuse citrus Dec 25, 2017, 10:02 PM

#

the modis are fairly consistent

#

I can't recall if they changed them at all

simple ravine Dec 25, 2017, 10:02 PM

#

When they changed the ES stuff for an example

obtuse citrus Dec 25, 2017, 10:03 PM

#

They changed the rolls

#

not the mod ids

simple ravine Dec 25, 2017, 10:03 PM

#

They didn't change the stats, they changed the mods, right

#

well those are the min/max values on the mods, and not the stat, though?

obtuse citrus Dec 25, 2017, 10:03 PM

#

yes but the mod id is still the same

simple ravine Dec 25, 2017, 10:04 PM

#

ah yes

obtuse citrus Dec 25, 2017, 10:04 PM

#

their db might very well store values per modifier based on the index (first stat, second stat, etc) rather then using a reference to the stat

#

but we dont know

simple ravine Dec 25, 2017, 10:05 PM

#

yeah, im terrible reverse engineering executables

#

but I suppose that would be an option if you really want to know

mortal bone Dec 25, 2017, 11:50 PM

#

Yeah, it isn't too bad, but it is nice to get able to debug through when reverse engineering. I wouldn't really want to do that with a game I would care about getting banned in

waxen musk Dec 26, 2017, 12:31 AM

#

eh you can just disconnect while debugging

simple ravine Dec 26, 2017, 1:05 AM

#

I dont think so

chrome topaz Dec 26, 2017, 1:42 AM

#

get a second account

delicate ore Dec 26, 2017, 2:48 AM

#

@timid hemlock Elder shields aren't displaying the elder mods

#

doing it on a Vaal Buckler

timid hemlock Dec 26, 2017, 2:53 AM

#

Fixed in the next update

gritty olive Dec 26, 2017, 3:30 AM

#

Sometimes the forums give posts scrollbars, its really weird https://i.imgur.com/VOQ1uWB.png

mortal bone Dec 26, 2017, 3:47 AM

#

finding pre 1.0 skill tree data is impossible

#

@chrome topaz do you happen to have any pre 1.0 skill tree data laying around? I know you have an old branch on github, but it seems to lack the data

simple ravine Dec 26, 2017, 3:50 AM

#

im curious what u're up to, Emmitt

mortal bone Dec 26, 2017, 3:51 AM

#

I am trying to compile all the major tre changes into a nice website

#

you could flip between them all to see the differences

simple ravine Dec 26, 2017, 3:52 AM

#

oh, cool

mortal bone Dec 26, 2017, 3:52 AM

#

I have everything from 1.0 foward, but the tree was much different in the 0.9 and 0.10 patches

#

http://www.dontplaytoomuch.com/PathOfExile/PassiveSkillCalculator.html

#

this site has 0.9.2f, but it is all hand coded

#

this is the point in which the shadow was unknown, hence why he is refered to as SIX every where

#

scion being SEVEN

#

http://webcdn.pathofexile.com/public/PassiveSkillTree.0.10.0.jpg

#

super high res of 0.10

gritty olive Dec 26, 2017, 4:08 AM

#

interesting

chrome topaz Dec 26, 2017, 4:17 AM

#

@mortal bone don't think so

mortal bone Dec 26, 2017, 4:19 AM

#

damn

#

actually looks like I have data for 1.1+

#

📎 unknown.png

gritty olive Dec 26, 2017, 4:33 AM

#

is acquisition the only way to sell bulk currency items ?

mortal bone Dec 26, 2017, 4:33 AM

#

you can list them in a sale tab

#

just price one, and the shop will give you a 'stock'

gritty olive Dec 26, 2017, 4:34 AM

#

~price 3/1 fusing

#

ah found it

mortal bone Dec 26, 2017, 4:34 AM

#

ye

gritty olive Dec 26, 2017, 4:34 AM

#

nice

mortal bone Dec 26, 2017, 4:35 AM

#

https://web.archive.org/web/20120415000000*/http://pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/

#

to the rescue

mortal bone Dec 26, 2017, 4:52 AM

#

so many small changes each patch >.>

gritty olive Dec 26, 2017, 5:16 AM

#

2016 was more active than 2017

pseudo ocean Dec 26, 2017, 5:38 AM

#

I always wonder why we need to use fraction on 1.4 1.3 etc when selling

#

when it looks 1.4 ingame

delicate ore Dec 26, 2017, 9:52 AM

#

@mortal bone can you request data for the old trees from GGG?

mortal bone Dec 26, 2017, 10:03 AM

#

I can just look through the archive, but it is a pain because every patch could have tree changes

delicate ore Dec 26, 2017, 10:14 AM

#

i meant for the stuff before open beta

#

the really old tree data

grave wren Dec 26, 2017, 10:30 AM

#

Another question regarding the ggpk & maps - i can get the monster packs by using MonsterPacksKeys but this dat does not seem to link to specific mobs, just contain their ID and Tags. WorldAreas also does have Monsters_MonsterVarietiesKeys but this seems to be mostly empty. Is there a way to get maps default mobs?

simple ravine Dec 26, 2017, 10:34 AM

#

Some .dat files are emptied on purpose by GGG, so it doesn't reveal the data to people like us 😐

grave wren Dec 26, 2017, 10:36 AM

#

Ah too bad, but somehow understandable 😄

gritty olive Dec 26, 2017, 8:04 PM

#

https://i.imgur.com/P6TceAm.png

#

well thats nice

#

request.setRateLimitByString('5:3:60')
request.setCacheExpiry(30)
request.start()

tabs.forEach(tab => request.push(() => tab))```

#

enlightenedchaosthinking I'll add to the subscription function an interval

#

https://i.imgur.com/GSAr8vl.png

#

subscription interface works, so does caching, this is nice

simple ravine Dec 26, 2017, 8:16 PM

#

what are u working on?

gritty olive Dec 26, 2017, 8:17 PM

#

eh i'm not sure what to properly describe it as

#

Basically it makes requests and adheres to the rate limit with a built in cache system

#

so if you add 10000000000000000000000 tabs

#

it will never, ever, go above the limits

#

it also doesn't make requests immediately but is a subscription system

#

Round Robin Throttled Request Client with Caching and Event System

#

is what it is

#

hm. the evenly spaced doesn't work properly with the circular job structure

simple ravine Dec 26, 2017, 8:21 PM

#

dataflow with backpressure

gritty olive Dec 26, 2017, 8:21 PM

#

yes but it's circular

simple ravine Dec 26, 2017, 8:22 PM

#

round robin doesn't necessarily have to be circular, but sure

gritty olive Dec 26, 2017, 8:22 PM

#

sure, well I'm not sure the model exists currently so i'm trying to find things that fit the idea

#

Basically you have a list of requests, it takes a chunk, does them, caches them, gets next chunk, puts old chunk back into the list, checks current chunk for holes, fills, requests (when cache is expired), caches items, fires a listener

simple ravine Dec 26, 2017, 8:24 PM

#

distributed load balancing

gritty olive Dec 26, 2017, 8:24 PM

#

but for client-side requests

simple ravine Dec 26, 2017, 8:24 PM

#

so let me get this straight

#

you have N nodes that does stash tab requests with different public IPs?

gritty olive Dec 26, 2017, 8:25 PM

#

this solves for

#

1 node, doing N stash tab requests

#

multiple times

simple ravine Dec 26, 2017, 8:26 PM

#

ok, so if you have 1 node,

#

it's just simple caching i suppose

gritty olive Dec 26, 2017, 8:26 PM

#

not really :/

#

I thought so too

#

You can have 80 reports, each use different tabs, when a report is created it needs the data from the tabs

#

how does it get that data, and how do the other 79 get their data as well

#

I'm moving from the previous model of, every report manages their own tab fetching to a centralized fetching mechanism

#

and they use it as a pool

simple ravine Dec 26, 2017, 8:28 PM

#

that's pretty standard logic though...

gritty olive Dec 26, 2017, 8:28 PM

#

So I will get your tabs for a league, shove them into the pool, the pool will continuously fetch and cache them for N minutes or seconds, and when a tab gets updated, so do your reports

#

Until you get into dynamic requests 😄

#

And manual refreshes

#

And more tabs than the rate limit window allows

#

Not to mention the secondary windows -_-

simple ravine Dec 26, 2017, 8:30 PM

#

no what I mean is caching middleware is like... super standard 🙂

gritty olive Dec 26, 2017, 8:30 PM

#

yes, but this is all, frontend 😃

#

browser

simple ravine Dec 26, 2017, 8:30 PM

#

yeah, we did the same in a project ~8 years ago 😛

gritty olive Dec 26, 2017, 8:30 PM

#

also can't find anything open source that does this

#

I can find them all individually

#

but not as a single thing

simple ravine Dec 26, 2017, 8:31 PM

#

we wrote our own request service

#

with caching rules based on endpoints etc

#

abstraction is key

gritty olive Dec 26, 2017, 8:31 PM

#

hence why I wrote mine 😛

#

@polar island I'm trying to get currency-cop into the position of "lazy loading" rather than "wait-n-show"

#

So reports get gradually built

#

the retry-after would be nice enlightenedchaosthinking once I get there

gritty olive Dec 26, 2017, 8:48 PM

#

https://i.imgur.com/2H2aBFu.png

#

Caching has a 30s timeout so it works nicely

#

evenly spaced works pretty well now too

#

https://i.imgur.com/j4eERSi.png

#

(I forgot 9 in the list, so its not a bug)

gritty olive Dec 26, 2017, 9:07 PM

#

Listeners can have timeouts now

#

https://i.imgur.com/UVjgeAM.png

#

All done for this

mortal bone Dec 26, 2017, 10:41 PM

#

You don't need a retry after. It is a 60s lock out

#

At 60s+ you can try again with success

compact isle Dec 26, 2017, 10:46 PM

#

we do actually supply a retry-after

mortal bone Dec 26, 2017, 10:51 PM

#

marauderthinking

gritty olive Dec 26, 2017, 11:01 PM

#

I haven't tested for retry-after, but the point of it is to completely avoid hitting that, and ensuring that we aren't overloading the api and doing unneccessary calls

#

Someone has 240 tabs, let's not make it possible for them to do 240 every 240s since that would be absurd, eventually want to get into the point of having the refresh only kill the tabs of the report you're trying to refresh

#

Also want to move from having the current system of 240 for every report

#

@compact isle while you're online, any news for when the map tab will be on the site?

compact isle Dec 26, 2017, 11:17 PM

#

probably not for a while, it'll need to go out in a proper patch

simple ravine Dec 26, 2017, 11:51 PM

#

y u no have cache mechanism server side with etags @compact isle

#

(that doesn't count towards api usage)

compact isle Dec 26, 2017, 11:55 PM

#

because our backend doesn't support it, which means our web side would have to re-fetch the data anyway which defeats the purpose of it not counting towards the api limit

simple ravine Dec 26, 2017, 11:57 PM

#

i'm sorry to hear that 😐

compact isle Dec 26, 2017, 11:57 PM

#

it was never designed with the website as the priority, it's a game server backend after all

simple ravine Dec 26, 2017, 11:58 PM

#

i guess it is what it is

mortal bone Dec 26, 2017, 11:59 PM

#

well, it can't be what it isn't

simple ravine Dec 26, 2017, 11:59 PM

#

if it's immutable*

wind garden Dec 27, 2017, 5:06 AM

#

Is there a good websocket client for C#?

simple ravine Dec 27, 2017, 5:06 AM

#

yes, built in

mortal bone Dec 27, 2017, 5:08 AM

#

ye

wind garden Dec 27, 2017, 5:08 AM

#

k, i was using websocket-sharp

#

but it seems to suck

mortal bone Dec 27, 2017, 5:08 AM

#

System.Net.WebSockets lol

simple ravine Dec 27, 2017, 5:08 AM

#

if you're supplying your own server, take a look at SignalR

mortal bone Dec 27, 2017, 5:09 AM

#

na, he is making a sniper for poe.trade

wind garden Dec 27, 2017, 5:09 AM

#

oddly, ClientWebSocket doesn't seem to read full messages as strings

simple ravine Dec 27, 2017, 5:09 AM

#

ah

#

it uses byte buffers right?

wind garden Dec 27, 2017, 5:09 AM

#

have to supply a buffer and check for message close status

#

yes

simple ravine Dec 27, 2017, 5:10 AM

#

yeah

#

node.js clients etc abstracts all that thing away, on good and bad

wind garden Dec 27, 2017, 5:10 AM

#

not a big deal, just checking if there's already a complete solution i could use

mortal bone Dec 28, 2017, 2:56 AM

#

--- ERROR ---
Critical error at address 5E13F8E0h:
Access violation: attempted to read from address 69C6217Ch

lol

simple ravine Dec 28, 2017, 2:57 AM

#

So you took upon yourself of trying to read the poe game?

mortal bone Dec 28, 2017, 2:57 AM

#

na, this is Path of Building

simple ravine Dec 28, 2017, 2:57 AM

#

ah

mortal bone Dec 28, 2017, 2:57 AM

#

I wouldn't publicly admit to reverse engineering the client

#

that would be suicide

#

that error happens when you leave the pob open for a couple days

chrome topaz Dec 28, 2017, 3:14 AM

#

I remember when I re'd poe client to figure a bug and found they used clipboard wrong which is why it was broken on wine yet worked on windows

mortal bone Dec 28, 2017, 3:17 AM

#

how do you use a clipboard wrong?

chrome topaz Dec 28, 2017, 3:22 AM

#

I think they freed it with GlobalFree or something, been a while ago and I can't find the log now

mortal bone Dec 28, 2017, 3:23 AM

#

Ah, ok

delicate ore Dec 28, 2017, 8:38 AM

#

@chrome topaz @polar island did you consider allowing notes for items without buyouts?

deft jolt Dec 28, 2017, 9:31 AM

#

allowing certain keywords would definitely be nice

pallid doveBOT Dec 28, 2017, 11:48 AM

#

Please don't post discord invites

simple ravine Dec 28, 2017, 11:48 AM

#

aww snap

#

that's lame, @pallid dove

#

@delicate ore what were u trying to send?

delicate ore Dec 28, 2017, 11:50 AM

#

the mercurytrade author has a dev discord

#

was posting the link

#

if you want it, i can pm it

#

also, i think its kind of lame that this server disables discord previews. that should be left to the user's discretion

waxen musk Dec 28, 2017, 11:57 AM

#

@obtuse citrus how do you generate specs in stable.py? i noticed you overwrote some previous pull requests after merging in the 3.1 data

gritty olive Dec 28, 2017, 12:37 PM

#

chaosthinking

📎 electron_2017-12-28_04-36-19.png

delicate ore Dec 28, 2017, 12:57 PM

#

hmm

#

you said you're making a web version of currencycop?

#

also did you take my suggestion of counting chromatic and 6s items as their vendor recipe worth?

gritty olive Dec 28, 2017, 1:01 PM

#

I was chaosthinking but then some roadblocks introduced themselves that I really didn't care for solving

#

like still having to store session ids in a database due to how the report fetching would need to be done and I don't like that idea

delicate ore Dec 28, 2017, 1:27 PM

#

what's stopping you from using localstorage?

#

oh

#

i think i know

#

cross-site requests and the like

gritty olive Dec 28, 2017, 1:33 PM

#

yeah, but storing reports, history, fetching while the user is away, stuff like that

#

requires storing the session id

#

or credentials and I don't want to do that

simple ravine Dec 28, 2017, 1:40 PM

#

create a windows service that reports to a central database

#

people aren't going to accumulate/mutate their networth if they dont have their computer on

delicate ore Dec 28, 2017, 1:43 PM

#

can't you make the client do all that lifting?

#

and then have it give the server the stash info

simple ravine Dec 28, 2017, 1:51 PM

#

what i just said 😃

gritty olive Dec 28, 2017, 1:55 PM

#

But that completely negates the whole point of doing it as a web service is why I was going to do it

#

Which is why I was like, well if I have to just do CC in the browser again like it was with the app, just work on the app tbh

waxen musk Dec 28, 2017, 2:10 PM

#

how do shaped/elder items work, theyre basically separate bases?

#

there are item tags like bow_shaper or bow_elder

#

but no base items with those tags

timid hemlock Dec 28, 2017, 2:14 PM

#

They aren't separate bases

#

Just items with extra tags

#

Well, flags that apply tags, I think

#

The assignment of tags for those items is in ItemClasses BTW, if you havven't found it otherwise

waxen musk Dec 28, 2017, 2:26 PM

#

oh thanks ill check

#

can they have normal mods btw? i havent played this patch much >.>

timid hemlock Dec 28, 2017, 2:27 PM

#

Yes, they can

#

Being shaper/elder just adds the extra tag that enables the respective modifiers

grave wren Dec 28, 2017, 2:51 PM

#

Hm, is there a way to retrieve the complete map graphics and not just the icon from the CDN? I've only found this url to retrieve the icon: http://web.poecdn.com/image/Art/2DItems/Maps/Atlas2Maps/New/<name>.png

deft jolt Dec 28, 2017, 3:07 PM

#

Probably not

#

they do fall under the game-file category

grave wren Dec 28, 2017, 3:13 PM

#

hm, too bad then I'll have to tinker around a bit to generate a matching shape before applying the image, thanks!

waxen musk Dec 28, 2017, 3:28 PM

#

pretty sure you just draw the icon on top of the base icon?

grave wren Dec 28, 2017, 3:50 PM

#

Normally sure, but I'm toying around with http://js.cytoscape.org/ - currently i was unable to draw multiple images on one node

waxen musk Dec 28, 2017, 3:54 PM

#

you can combine them before feeding them to the lib i guess

grave wren Dec 28, 2017, 3:56 PM

#

true, but with the options to make your own polygon shape it might be worthwhile to figure it out and build the map shape as polygon 😄

gritty olive Dec 28, 2017, 4:01 PM

#

Honestly, I'd make the entire thing a single layer, then draw ontop of it

grave wren Dec 28, 2017, 4:33 PM

#

Would be easier, true but I wanted to try something new 😃

gritty olive Dec 28, 2017, 4:35 PM

#

same tbh

📎 chrome_2017-12-28_08-35-22.png

grave wren Dec 28, 2017, 4:47 PM

#

looks good

gritty olive Dec 28, 2017, 6:01 PM

#

Somehow made it look more business like

#

📎 chrome_2017-12-28_10-01-10.png

deft jolt Dec 28, 2017, 7:22 PM

#

looking good 👌 👌

delicate ore Dec 28, 2017, 7:37 PM

#

@gritty olive can you make it display average earning per update_interval?

#

so i can see if im earning say, 200c per hour

#

i wouldn't even lock it to the update interval, i would suggest adding the ability to set your own interval

#

so you could have a report that updates every 4 hours but displays average hourly earnings

twilit monolith Dec 28, 2017, 8:44 PM

#

is there a json file or something somewhere that has the coordinates of maps on the atlas?

mortal bone Dec 28, 2017, 9:18 PM

#

pypoe can extract that information

#

just search in this channel, and you should find the info you need

deft jolt Dec 28, 2017, 9:25 PM

#

Oh boy. an important milestone. it's been 1 week since i started my application and there have been zero issues

mortal bone Dec 28, 2017, 9:43 PM

#

what app?

deft jolt Dec 28, 2017, 9:47 PM

#

An incredibly lightweight unique/map/gem pricer

#

Added some basic info to http://poe.ovh

obtuse citrus Dec 28, 2017, 11:57 PM

#

@pseudo ocean that wasn't intentional, fixed it

gritty olive Dec 28, 2017, 11:58 PM

#

@delicate ore thats what the GAIN/LOSS is for

#

I mean, eh it's not an average of them all..

#

do you mean average over all time?

gritty olive Dec 29, 2017, 12:39 AM

#

I added that, and some more

📎 chrome_2017-12-28_16-38-38.png

delicate ore Dec 29, 2017, 4:11 AM

#

@gritty olive thank you!

#

i got a weird request... can you eventually make a mercurytrade-style overlay so you can see your earnings on-screen?

#

i think you can make a frameless/borderless always-on-top transparent draggable window in electron

#

thats how mercurytrade does it

#

even its just the report name and value with last gain/loss like on the left of that screenshot

#

if you won't do it, i might make a pull request for it in the future

grave wren Dec 29, 2017, 1:00 PM

#

I've asked whether it was possible to retrieve maps with their background, apparently it is with url params: http://web.poecdn.com/image/Art/2DItems/Maps/Atlas2Maps/New/Colosseum.png?mt=14&mn=1

#

while mt=x is coloring the icon according to the map tier if mn is also set

mortal bone Dec 29, 2017, 1:05 PM

#

nice

grave wren Dec 29, 2017, 1:31 PM

#

Prices: $13.49 or £9.99 or 10 Exalted orbs -- https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/7mu7ys/poe_currency_flipper/

#

😄

deft jolt Dec 29, 2017, 5:20 PM

#

Oni-Goroshis/hour plummeted from 640 to 320 after the change

#

And prices pretty much doubled

#

interesting

gritty olive Dec 29, 2017, 11:54 PM

#

@mortal bone will you ever add currency cop to the tools list xD

mortal bone Dec 29, 2017, 11:55 PM

#

Generally after the tool has proven itself and kept up to date. It prevents us from having to call the list that often

#

Also, send a mod mail lol it is a nice task list

gritty olive Dec 29, 2017, 11:56 PM

#

I genuinely don't ... well I guess that link is it

#

the link is so tiny xD

mortal bone Dec 29, 2017, 11:56 PM

#

Huh?

gritty olive Dec 29, 2017, 11:57 PM

#

📎 firefox_2017-12-29_15-56-41.png

#

doesn't really use reddit that often

mortal bone Dec 29, 2017, 11:57 PM

#

Oh, yeah. Reddit really likes to hide that. I should make it bigger

#

Send a forum link/website/developer that you want on their

reef jacinth Dec 30, 2017, 12:13 AM

#

Does anyone know if there's monster base health by level data somewhere? Like PoB says lvl 80 mobs have 12466 health, where is that from?

obtuse citrus Dec 30, 2017, 12:21 AM

#

DefaultMonsterStats.dat

#

Also the actual hp depends on monster and where you can find it , becaues map tiers give extra hp to mobs and individual monsters have different hp

wind garden Dec 30, 2017, 12:28 AM

#

Oni-Goroshis/hour sounds like a qualilty metric

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 2:52 AM

#

is the public attribute in the stash api used to signal someone making their tab private by giving a stash with public set to false?

simple ravine Dec 30, 2017, 2:56 AM

#

try it, with one of your own tabs

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 3:42 AM

#

argh, why does the API only give typeline and not base and item class?

#

getting the base from magic items is annoying af

simple ravine Dec 30, 2017, 3:45 AM

#

annoying, indeed... not so hard tho

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 3:45 AM

#

what is a consistent and simple method to do it?

simple ravine Dec 30, 2017, 3:46 AM

#

a list of base items and regex?

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 3:47 AM

#

kind of inefficient

#

plus you'd need to find in order of name length

#

because "Skean" would match for "Imperial Skean" as well for example

simple ravine Dec 30, 2017, 3:47 AM

#

i did many thousands of items per second that way

#

with 100% consistency

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 3:48 AM

#

but I guess sorting a list of base items by length descending and picking the first one that matches should work

simple ravine Dec 30, 2017, 3:48 AM

#

exactly

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 3:48 AM

#

assuming there isn't any mod that makes stuff ambiguous

#

@simple ravine for rare items is typeLine always just the base?

#

or can you have a rare that still has other stuff in the typeline

simple ravine Dec 30, 2017, 3:51 AM

#

not that I know of, I dont have anything in production yet

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 3:59 AM

#

does the 'duplicated' property mean mirrored?

compact isle Dec 30, 2017, 4:11 AM

#

yes

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 4:26 AM

#

@compact isle I noticed that the AJAX reply on pathofexile.com/trade contains an 'indexed' timestamp, would it be possible to expose that for the public stash API as well? At the moment the only way to track when an item gets listed is by running a server 24/7 from the start of a league and timestamping every item the very first time it appears. If you didn't do (or want) that, old items are (AFAIK) indistinguishable from new.

chrome topaz Dec 30, 2017, 5:18 AM

#

wouldn't work if they remove item then place it back

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 5:19 AM

#

I don't really care about the edge cases, as long as it's consistent behavior (keeps first index or resets time are both fine for me)

#

@chrome topaz what behavior do you use for poe.trade for the age marker for items?

chrome topaz Dec 30, 2017, 5:23 AM

#

plus there's no way ggg adds it

#

track first seen using item hash

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 5:24 AM

#

hash, not id, I guess to track currency usage as new items?

chrome topaz Dec 30, 2017, 5:26 AM

#

actually not hash but unique id

#

so if you chrome it it doesn't reset the age

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 5:26 AM

#

I'm kind of curious xyz, if you are willing to say, what database tech you use behind poe.trade

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 5:27 AM

#

he once said it was all custom

chrome topaz Dec 30, 2017, 5:27 AM

#

yeah

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 5:27 AM

#

not even a DBRMS?

chrome topaz Dec 30, 2017, 5:27 AM

#

the item search is custom

#

there's mysql for user data and kyoto-tycoon for URLs and item hashes

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 5:28 AM

#

my first prototype (just for gathering market data, not even querying live data) used sqlite, but it kinda became too slow as the database became too big

chrome topaz Dec 30, 2017, 5:28 AM

#

anyway everybody else uses elasticsearch for item search so you might want to try that

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 5:28 AM

#

I'm not looking to make an indexer

#

I'm looking to gather item price information for my neural network 😃

chrome topaz Dec 30, 2017, 5:29 AM

#

then what part is slow?

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 5:29 AM

#

I wish I had actual trade data 😦 the best I can do is track which items disappear reasonably fast and mark those as sales

#

my first prototype was quite naive, and involved some full table scans

#

also sqlite slows down when a table gets too big (millions of entries)

#

@chrome topaz roughly how much data storage do you use for the full up to date snapshot of all items?

chrome topaz Dec 30, 2017, 5:33 AM

#

like under 100 gigs

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 5:34 AM

#

oh my initial prototype was also rather dumb in that it stored basically raw json data from the stream, icon links and json description and all without any deduplication

compact isle Dec 30, 2017, 5:34 AM

#

indexed time is quite different from "item placed in stash"

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 5:38 AM

#

@chrome topaz for item price prediction I'm interested in 'what can this item sell for', while the stream gives 'what did 500 inexperienced players list this item for', without tracking actual trades the items listed are effectively noise

chrome topaz Dec 30, 2017, 5:38 AM

#

well good luck with that

#

i think about once per month there's people coming into this channel with that idea

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 5:39 AM

#

my best model so far uses data from up to day 6 of abyss league

chrome topaz Dec 30, 2017, 5:39 AM

#

or asking me for a data dump

#

then i never hear from them again

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 5:39 AM

#

I think it's because then mostly experienced players were in maps

#

don't get me wrong, my model is (IMO) already quite succesful

#

it could just be so much better

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 5:39 AM

#

your model is ?

#

inb4 random forest

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 5:40 AM

#

I'm not too keen on sharing exact details but I can say that it's based on multilayer perceptrons

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 5:40 AM

#

eh so a supervised algo

chrome topaz Dec 30, 2017, 5:40 AM

#

how much you made?

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 5:40 AM

#

what do you mean @chrome topaz ?

#

@gritty olive define supervised in this example

chrome topaz Dec 30, 2017, 5:41 AM

#

from flipping rares

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 5:41 AM

#

I am training it on tagged (priced) data

chrome topaz Dec 30, 2017, 5:41 AM

#

or how do you measure success?

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 5:41 AM

#

perceptrons are the most basic form of machine learning, supervised algorithms

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 5:42 AM

#

@chrome topaz ah, I have made personally 60+ex, but I haven't really intensely watched it

#

I have various expert player friends that are very positive about it though

#

@gritty olive what would unsupervised here be? group items into similarity using machine learning and then looking up the cheapest similar item afterwards?

#

@chrome topaz I could've made a lot more without the one minute delay though...

#

most of the time it's already sold

chrome topaz Dec 30, 2017, 5:44 AM

#

i see

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 5:44 AM

#

no

#

thats not machine learning

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 5:46 AM

#

because as I understand supervised vs unsupervised is mainly whether or not your data is tagged (either by price, classification or otherwise)

#

also what I described is most certainly machine learning

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 5:48 AM

#

that is not the difference between supervised and unsupervised

#

Supervised: Process, and compare to known dataset
Unsupervised: Derive a cost functor from the desired behavior, cost functor describes to your neural network the targeting offset. Network will adjust and improve over time to your cost functor description

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 5:50 AM

#

"Unsupervised machine learning is the machine learning task of inferring a function to describe hidden structure from "unlabeled" data (a classification or categorization is not included in the observations)."

#

first sentence on wikipedia

#

@chrome topaz if you're curious, here's some flips suggested by the neural network: https://gist.github.com/orlp/083ad5aed98b31223ed40dbebdf44985

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 5:51 AM

#

The key point is that it derives a cost function for the dataset that continously improves the neural net

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 5:52 AM

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regardless, you sounded a bit disappointed when I implied that my algorithm is supervised

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 5:52 AM

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What you described doesn't do that

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 5:52 AM

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why is that?

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 5:53 AM

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Because, it's based on your assumptions (which is fine) but not anywhere near what possible

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 5:53 AM

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what assumptions is it based on?

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 5:54 AM

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you'll have to describe the algorithms first

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supervised implies a form of bias

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 5:56 AM

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I think you have a bit of a too rose-colored idea of what unsupervised learning does, and a too rigid idea of what supervised learning does

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 5:56 AM

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Since to create a perceptron, you need an input, a bias, activation functions, and a output

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 5:56 AM

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the bias is learned

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everyone uses (p)RELU activations anyway

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the output is already pre-defined (predicted value)

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and the input is as well (the item)

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 5:57 AM

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Supervised literally differs due to interference with the bias

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bias/variance tradeoffs of supervised learning

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 5:58 AM

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oh you're talking about a different bias

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since you said it right before activation functions I assumed you meant the bias at each layer

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but the issues you're talking about are nowhere near the difficult part regarding this particular problem

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 6:03 AM

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Nope, sounds like you're using Keras, which is why you have some rigid ideas about it

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 6:03 AM

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practically speaking

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 6:03 AM

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Maybe for a supervised system

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 6:03 AM

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describe to me what an unsupervised solution would look like in this case

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 6:04 AM

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You don't have an unsupervised feeding the supervised functions yet it seems

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 6:04 AM

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I don't know what you mean by that

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I am using keras by the way 😉

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like my biggest mental hurdle is that since this is a regression problem, I don't even know what unsupervised regression would do

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@gritty olive what do you mean by "an unsupervised feeding the supervised functions yet it seems"

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 6:14 AM

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R vs C

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 6:14 AM

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that's too vague to be useful

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 6:14 AM

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Classification vs Regression

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 6:15 AM

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so you're suggesting classifying items unsupervised into similar groups

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 6:16 AM

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Well, I'd like to know a few things

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Correlation, Classification, Regression

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 6:17 AM

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well the only problem I'm interested in is regression, that is finding out how much an item will sell for

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 6:18 AM

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based on what assumptions though

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 6:18 AM

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predicting how much a previously unseen item will sell for based on data from previously sold items*

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 6:19 AM

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so you ultimately just have like two layers

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Disspointment is from the fact, it requires the river to move, and is not predictive,

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you would have been late to the dual mods, and oni

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 6:21 AM

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ohhh now I see what angle you're coming from

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I don't really think unsupervised is what you're looking for

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if I understand you correctly

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your point is that a true intelligent AI can predict prices based on item merit alone, regardless of market?

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 6:23 AM

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somewhat, but it would require an unsupervised learning algorithm, a reinforcement, and supervised chained together

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 6:23 AM

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or just a bunch of path of building presets that can hotswap items 😛 and calculate DPS, life, etc values to determine item value

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 6:23 AM

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well (a few unsupervised)

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 6:23 AM

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but I dno

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that's way too ambitious for me

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 6:24 AM

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Yeah, you could get all the popular builds, and build an api to modify items on PoB or pull out the code that does the calculations and build it into a model

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and do comparisons

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that would get you pretty close

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 6:24 AM

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fundamentally the problem still can't be solved without market data though

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let's say you're a superintelligent AI

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and I present you with a new unseen item

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oni-gorochi

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without knowing droprate

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player popularity

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you still couldn't say ANYTHING about the price

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 6:25 AM

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you'd atleast learn item popularity and could estimate 50-1ex

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 6:25 AM

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fundamentally merit is irrelevant, it doesn't matter how much an item is really worth, what matters is that you're the cheapest on poe.trade

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 6:25 AM

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which is reasonable

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eh, not always

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cheapest is for quick money, highest is for long-tail sells

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 6:27 AM

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I'm pretty confident that if GGG were to give me an anonimized data set of actual item trades that happened, my model would be incredibly accurate for almost all items

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the big issue is that most stuff that gets listed never sells because either the item is fundamentally worthless (not a problem) or just heavily overpriced (big problem)

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 6:28 AM

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for items that are worthless ^ is true

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or at least, highly focused for a single build and is also low in rolls ^ is true

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however, items that have perfect rolls / enchants, ^ is not true

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 6:29 AM

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@gritty olive did you take a look at the sample I posted above?

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of predictions the model does atm

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 6:30 AM

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no

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 6:30 AM

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https://gist.github.com/orlp/083ad5aed98b31223ed40dbebdf44985

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 6:31 AM

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Adds 19 to 36 Fire Damage to Attacks
Adds 3 to 43 Lightning Damage to Attacks
Adds 15 to 25 Cold Damage to Bow Attacks
Adds 4 to 43 Lightning Damage to Bow Attacks

orlpbotBOT - Today at 1:03 AM
Rings, Price: 1, predicted: 19, range: 13-26 (account: cencen) ```

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 6:31 AM

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some predictions are simply dated because the model is only based on data from the first 6 days

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 6:31 AM

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This is my point, cheap but quick :D, not perfect rolls

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It works for the middle ground, but it wouldn't work for the fringe

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for that reason you can just use poeprices.info

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or build your own basic one

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 6:32 AM

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did you mean can't?

gritty olive Dec 30, 2017, 6:33 AM

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Can't? Why can't you? They do basic ML on items

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I would say the only reason for "can't" is speed

lusty musk Dec 30, 2017, 6:33 AM

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I'm just a bit confused

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because you said it wouldn't work for the fringe