there's nothing wrong with it now, that's for sure
#tooldev-general
chrome topaz
so the end result
actually fairly usable in chrome, unusably slow in firefox and other browsers have no webgl2 support so it doesn't work at all in edge/etc
it eats like 20% cpu idle and crashes after a minute or two
winter fossil
20% cpu usage while nothing happends, damn dude. Why?
deft jolt
Looking through my list of leagues
one of these is not like the other
Anyone had the same problem?
deft jolt
Hm, any league that is found in the stash api river is added to my list
might just be a bug on my end
mortal bone
what does false have in it?
are you accounting for when you get caught up to the front of the river?>
deft jolt
Could've been "league": false
is what I'm thinking
But I don't have enough data to prove that that's actually what happened
compact isle
looks like it can return false if the backend is down but the website is still up
mortal bone
compact isle
not ideal
mortal bone
ye
timid hemlock
@chrome topaz hehe, you madman 😛
@gritty olive SImpleGraphic may not be open sourced yet, but I do provide the source on demand
I will likely make it properly open source eventually, but the project structure makes it a little tricky to isolate
chrome topaz
@winter fossil it still redraws everything even when idle
deft jolt
"category": "jewels",
"category": {"armour": ["gloves"]},
"category": {"weapons": ["bow"]},
New category tag seems a bit inconsistent
chrome topaz
well i could probably make it pause when the user alt tabs away from it
wind garden
poe seriously has to be the only game in existence where people complain that they can sell items TOO easily
chrome topaz
getting bottlenecked by Lua now sigh
gritty olive
@timid hemlock alright, wanted to overhaul the interface
@chrome topaz lua -> js
make life easier
chrome topaz
@gritty olive what do you mean?
gritty olive
Eh, after reading through the transpiler it's not worth it
"VMs" are better which is what you're probably already doing
https://github.com/kripken/emscripten or are you doing this?
I think you're doing this iirc
chrome topaz
yes
wind garden
I hate the trade argument so much. It all operates on the stupid assumption that we can somehow prevent people from writing apps that will consume resources faster than a human with a browser can.
mortal bone
you can
wind garden
how?
mortal bone
bots...
wind garden
right, that's my part
point**
bots will always exist
so they're making changes to the API to stop a problem that can't be stopped. Thus, making it worse for the legit uses of the API.
mortal bone
you do realize that private indexers, or people with access to them, were beating out the public right?
humans were beating humans
wind garden
ya
mortal bone
the delay fixes that
wind garden
no it doesn't
mortal bone
the bots will still currency trade
...
everyone is now on a level playing field
you have 3 options
pick the fastest
or create your own, and make it public
wind garden
you just switch from using a simple API to having ot parse HTML
mortal bone
these 3 sites are optimized for searching not live searching
sure, then you get banned from those sites
now you are shit out of luck
mortal bone
then you have the same delay as everyone else
wind garden
but you can open up a ton of searches
mortal bone
so can anyone
wind garden
ya cause that's what people want to do, open up 300 tabs in their browser
be real here
people will continue to write apps that give them an advantage
mortal bone
just because you don't want to open a bunch of tabs doesn't mean others won't
I know a lot of people that have ~20 tabs open
you aren't really going to be seaching 300+ items
wind garden
40-50
wind garden
and how fast is someone's reaction time for clicking on 1 of 50 tabs?
poe.trade doesn't always clear the browser toast either
so you may have multiple tabs with the red notification symbol
how to know which one dinged at you?
not trying to get into the details, just making the point that people will do it. Because it's what i'd do
mortal bone
you are complaining about an issue that doesn't happen with the majority
wind garden
so they're trying to stop an already highly motivated minority
that still has more than one way to accomplish their goal
mortal bone
with the same delay as everyone else
the problem was 3rd processing
now everyone has to go through a 3rd party
meaning the same delay for everyone
wind garden
we'll see
I'll end up on the front page of reddit again because some kid is complaining that "this guy" is still beating everyone else somehow!
mortal bone
you can't decrease teh time it takes poe.trade to send you a message
wind garden
poe.trade is still normally just as fast as my indexer even now
when things are running smoothly
the advantage is only super noticable when it's not smooth
that doesn't stop me from being more optimized even when things are smooth though
mortal bone
good for you
wind garden
just saying that equal delay doesn't fix the problem
mortal bone
it fixes one of the problems
you still have humans copy and pasting
if you can do it faster, cool
if you write a bot to copy/paste, shame on you
simple ravine
you discuss trade mechanics a lot for hating the discussion 😛
mortal bone
it sucks having work invalidated, so I get it
simple ravine
I'm torn. I agree with both of you to an extent.
simple ravine
of course
mortal bone
the currency flipping bots will still be in play though
60s doesn't matter much when flipping huge amounts
mortal bone
looks like trouble looking up the linking stuff
simple ravine
it's one of these --^
ooh, they have embedded chat support in the admin interface
nifty
chrome topaz
alright check this out https://xyzz.github.io/pob-web/index.html (only chrome works reasonably well)
chrome topaz
yeah it will be less laggy if you zoom in
mortal bone
how does it handle saving?
chrome topaz
it doesn't
mortal bone
ah
chrome topaz
it's just poc at this point
simple ravine
@chrome topaz regarding the rendering - is the code separated enough that you could rip out the current rendering logic and replace it with something that would be more catered to webgl, maybe?
chrome topaz
dunno, haven't looked at pob code
chrome topaz
on my chrome, lua takes 30ms every frame
mortal bone
jesus
simple ravine
it's pretty smooth for me actually
mortal bone
I get about 10fps in firefox
chrome topaz
it's way better in chrome
@timid hemlock check it out too https://xyzz.github.io/pob-web/index.html
simple ravine
interetsting, ctrl+v doesn't work in the craft thing
chrome topaz
it doesn't handle ctrl at all, and ctrl+v isn't even possible afaik
would need to implement some tricks like window prompt or a textbox
cosmic saffron
all the text/number inputs seems to be off from the cursor, no selection/backspace/delete support
gritty olive
I like the whole "everyone is on the same level" trade argument
They always were
You just shifted the level 60 seconds
😃
cosmic saffron
gotta get that poe.trade integration where you can directly drag and drop items or something
gritty olive
You can still scrape searches if you really care and be on a higher level
You can argue all you want it doesn't change that fact
simple ravine
For me, it's just about user experience
mortal bone
@chrome topaz do your live searches get processed at all?
gritty olive
I guess user experience can be better with a delay
But fuck me I put a bright beak up and got instant requests
simple ravine
No, I mean from a trading perspective
chrome topaz
i'll probably just put the code on github and forget about it for a few more months
@mortal bone what do you mean?
gritty olive
I just want an auction house
At this point
I understand everyones feelings but like, I just don't care enough
mortal bone
Do your live searches pull from your own db or do they get served from the river?
gritty olive
thinks about what he actually buys...
mortal bone
there will always be some process time, but I wasn't sure if your live searches were a spereate system or not
gritty olive
I buy starter items more than late game items
chrome topaz
it's separate system
gritty olive
real time bois
chrome topaz
and of course there's always going to be a delay
mortal bone
yeah, but I wasn't sure if there was an extra delay because of writing/reading from a db
chrome topaz
it bypasses the usual "db"
it goes from indexer into redis into live backend
the main delay is when the live backends runs live searches against new items
for example, right now there's 11k searches running, and if there's say 500 new items, it takes around 1.5s to do the searches
mortal bone
is there any optimizations you can make?
mortal bone
seems a bit long
chrome topaz
i think i might be playing the wrong game
when 1.5s delay for a live search is too much
wind garden
I'm assuming @mortal bone is thinking if you can reduce the latecy, it leaves less room for others to make a better implementation
mortal bone
Na, I just like optimization
wind garden
fair
but it's true, if poe.trade was just as fast as the fastest indexer, makes it not worth it to make your own
chrome topaz
if you like optimization you should try optimizing that pob-web thing :))))))))))))
wind garden
chrome doesn't support webgl?
think this might have been something discussed earlier that I missed
ah nevermind, just have to have hardware acceleration enabled in chrome
chrome topaz
that won't help
pseudo ocean
lua rendering issue?
chrome topaz
yes the bottleneck's lua, i'm not sure what exactly
pseudo ocean
have you tried bgfx?
chrome topaz
no, what's that and how would that help?
pseudo ocean
Cross-platform, graphics API agnostic, "Bring Your Own Engine/Framework" style rendering library.
supports mostly all rendering backends
chrome topaz
and how would that make lua faster?
mortal bone
@chrome topaz post it on github and I will take a look
chrome topaz
gonna clean up it and write a proper readme
simple ravine
Let's get Auction House, and I can create an HFT bot, ggwp
obtuse citrus
restrict AH trades to 10 per day, rip your HFT bot :p
chrome topaz
and figure how to add a crypto miner
simple ravine
im not a fan of btc
simple ravine
EOS will be interesting.
simple ravine
yes, problem with Ethereum applications is that you pay per execution
simple ravine
EOS solves that.
mortal bone
gas keeps dapps from running out of control though
how do they prevent infinite loops being run on the network?
takes up a 'ton' of processing power
simple ravine
I haven't dug deep into the specifics, not that interested
mortal bone
ton being relative
simple ravine
My business partner bought a ton of EOS tokens in the initial release
mortal bone
chrome topaz
@mortal bone https://github.com/xyzz/pob-web-src
mortal bone
basically you need pob to be faster
mortal bone
might be
just throw timers everywhere and hope for the best lol
you write the draw code yourself?
chrome topaz
yeah, i copied a lot from the linux port though
mortal bone
ah, ok
chrome topaz
though that linux thing is written using old opengl stuff that shouldn't be used anymore so i had to change a lot
but it's basically just rendering quads so very simple
mortal bone
Yeah, I saw. It doesn't look too bad
how bad is it without culling? lol
PoESkillTree doesn't use culling, and the tree redraws in ~1-5ms depending on how much you are spamming it
chrome topaz
it's a bit slower, same as if you zoom out
that culling was just one line of code so no reason not to have it
mortal bone
true
chrome topaz
well i guess it does eat stuff too aggressively sometimes
fixed
oh it seems endframe actually takes a lot of time
mortal bone
draw.cmds.sort(draw._cmpfunc);
chrome topaz
yeah that actually takes surprisingly long, like 5ms
mortal bone
Yeah, you could just do an insertion sort or something in push
is it sorting by layer?
chrome topaz
another thing i was thinking is to split rendering into two steps, one would be collecting all vertices (instead of writeBuffer now), another actually drawing
so that instead of ton of glBufferSubData we call it once
yeah it sorts by layer and renders back to front
i should probably make it two level deep array
mortal bone
just make them bins
each layer gets their own array
no process overhead needed
[draw.layer][draw.sublayer]
chrome topaz
yeah that's what I meant
simple ravine
aren't multidimensional arrays quicker tho
mortal bone
ah, yes
chrome topaz
I just wanted to get something quick because I don't know if pob might skip layers or w/e and then it would explode somewhere
mortal bone
Yeah, that makes sense
he might have a sublayer he skips or something
I know I skip the ascendancy layer if it isn't displayed
chrome topaz
it has layers 0, 1, 5, 1000
gritty olive
You could do caching of the keys and diff
mortal bone
I would bet you one of those layers isn't redrawn very often
well, doesn't need redrawn very often
gritty olive
.apply is slower than direct application btw
mortal bone
1000 is probably ui with sub layers
gritty olive
By quite a lot
the ones at the bottom, are apply / call
the other colors are direct / by string
chrome topaz
um your tooltip overlaps the first one
gritty olive
You can look up the direct vs apply js performance but I am not sure how many calls are being made
apply can do 150m ops a second
if its over that look at doing direct
I think batching the buffer / grouping the requests is best though
writeBuffer is going to impact performance the most
you could cache that too, no ?
chrome topaz
yeah i'm going to batch writes to the buffer
i'd like to batch DrawArrays as well but not sure how
mortal bone
even just batching layers would be helpful
gritty olive
you could also if you wanted "smartly" cache buffer offsets and re-use them later, but I haven't done it with webgl
chrome topaz
what do you mean by batching layers?
mortal bone
the draw layers
chrome topaz
yes, what do you mean?
mortal bone
each layer should have it's own buffer
mortal bone
you could easily cache layers that don't change much/at all
chrome topaz
yeah but pob's gonna calculate its coordinates anyway
gritty olive
We are talking about an app that does this when dragged https://i.imgur.com/qaHfcpO.png
chrome topaz
writing geometry data is pretty fast i think the bottleneck is lots of draw calls / lots of bufferSubData (what i'm trying to solve)
mortal bone
Oh, I see. May as well update the layers then
chrome topaz
but since it's using TRIANGLE_FAN for rendering i'm not sure how to batch draw calls
chrome topaz
for everything
well that's what the qt thing uses, i'm not sure maybe you can replace it
tropic shuttle
did the api recently change maps to use name instead of typeLine?
tropic shuttle
pebkac
waxen musk
is wiki broken for everyone atm?
gritty olive
yes
mortal bone
fickle yew
How are group sizes defined in the passive tree json? @mortal bone ? 😃 I tried looking at PoeSkillTree, but hmm..
mortal bone
what do you mean?
fickle yew
But the actual size of the group..
mortal bone
JavaScript:
var orbitAngle = 2 * Math.PI * node.oidx / tree.constants.skillsPerOrbit[node.o];
node.x = group.x - tree.constants.orbitRadii[node.o] * Math.sin(-orbitAngle);
node.y = group.y - tree.constants.orbitRadii[node.o] * Math.cos(-orbitAngle);
Right, so the circle of the group is just an image rendered from the center?
mortal bone
Yeah, the code above is just calculating the position on the circle from a given starting position
fickle yew
Alright, thanks. I was just trying to render the groups as circles, which turned out not to be easy 😃
or at least not from the data in the groups array.
mortal bone
I just calc the x/y of each node. No reason to try and draw the circle
All the data you need is in groups
mortal bone
Novynn also put all the constants you need into the tree which is nice
fickle yew
Yeah I noticed 😃
waxen musk
actually the coordinates are in pixels if you use original assets
in case you have trouble getting everything to be the right size
fickle yew
What is the oo thing?
mortal bone
the associative array of orbitals
it is basically what size of background the orbit has
0 = None, 1 = Small, 2 = Medium, 3 = Large
PSGroupBackground<maxr>
fickle yew
"251": {
"x": 9073.24,
"y": -1196.8,
"oo": {
"0": true,
"2": true,
"3": true,
"4": true
},
"n": [ 28535, 51462, 39834, 26446, 25167, 5087, 18635, 16940, 64842, 41081, 47366 ]
},
Why does it need both 0, 2, 3 and 4 though?
mortal bone
maybe @sudden tiger can answer that. I just consume it
timid hemlock
I've always imagined that 'oo' simply stands for 'orbit occupied' or something similar; it merely indicates which orbits have nodes in them
mortal bone
That is how I treat it
fickle yew
mortal bone
get rekt
fickle yew
gotta love scion
mortal bone
any connection from an ascendancy node to a non-ascendancy node shouldn't have the connection drawn
fickle yew
no that makes sense 😃
mortal bone
it was a pain in my ass because I didn't have support for connections without drawing them
timid hemlock
😛
mortal bone
that was also the league they changed the orbit radii
timid hemlock
Mmm, I had an early version of PoB running by that point; that was fun to figure out
fickle yew
Well Scion was a mess back then 😃
waxen musk
i still have this http://poe.rivsoft.net/sandbox/ the code is pretty messy though
will be rewriting it soon
isnt it better to use original data than the JS they provide?
waxen musk
yeah thats why its better to use original data, so you dont have to hardcode orbits >.>
mortal bone
This was at a time when things weren't in the json...
you have it pretty good with tree data now
which reminds me, I need to add that to poeksilltree. It is still hardcoded
waxen musk
i didnt like their images though
mortal bone
they have 3 sets
waxen musk
i found that the quality gets pretty bad if you try to scale them though
mortal bone
I just use the largest ones
waxen musk
i made my own set with like 50% zoom
mortal bone
I never scale them
waxen musk
huh how do you zoom then
mortal bone
the entire canvas is scaled
waxen musk
so you render an image with max scale
or you mean you set a global transform
which is essentially the same as scaling the images
mortal bone
basically you render a big ass image and move it closer/further from the viewport
waxen musk
doesnt it use too much memory
i tried rendering the whole tree and it just froze everything
mortal bone
~190mb
waxen musk
if you only redraw on zoom its not too bad
mortal bone
no point in redrawing on zoom
timid hemlock
Be like me; redraw the whole damn tree 60 times a second and hope people don't notice 😄
waxen musk
do you bother drawing line decorators? 😃
timid hemlock
I don't
mortal bone
I don't
timid hemlock
Noone will notice them anyway
waxen musk
i even made animated circles for radius jewels lol
mortal bone
I just use a nice blue line or whatever color they choose
more readable
If I wanted to I could redraw everything as it alone takes about 1ms
fickle yew
Heat map of top 10 Raiders using Kinetic Blast
smoky temple
Nice
waxen musk
path of life nodes
fickle yew
@waxen musk looks good. Is that based on what you have in the sandbox as well?
waxen musk
no its from my old tree tool, it shows a heatmap of all saved builds at poe.rivsoft.net/usage
theres like 150 builds saved since august (when i last updated the tree data)
tough cloak
That heat map is nice
chrome topaz
nice [2017-12-12 14:01:15.108908] Pushed 114177307-119674261-112217868-129493265-120928048 : 5724 items; fetch took 227.281147003 (time to first byte 225.879717827) API rate 25.1846669883 items/s
yeah
it is certainly a nice unlabelled graph of what exactly?
let's help dora find when ggg backs up their servers
waxen ridge
@timid hemlock I noticed this morning Minion life gems don't seem to be changing minion life -> DPS values This appropriat place to report or do you have a Github I can raise an issue against?
Actually, I think I just found the github for it -> https://github.com/Openarl/PathOfBuilding
Someone beat me to the punch -> https://github.com/Openarl/PathOfBuilding/issues/745
wind garden
oops wrong channel
ex:chaos ratio on poe.trade is causing weird sort by price issues where 170c shows up as less than 3ex
chrome topaz
what ratio does the official site use?
wind garden
@compact isle do you know what pathofexile.com/trade uses for a chaos:exile ratio for sorting?
i mean, it's going to change over the course of the league
compact isle
we don't sort by equivilent price on the exchange page
wind garden
i thought you manually updated it from time to time
compact isle
oh on the normal page
yeah we do, but it's probably out of date
I'll check it out later today
obtuse citrus
Make it randint(30, 60) 😄
wind garden
ya it's even worse than poe.trade lol
compact isle
pretty much
gritty olive
beautiful
obtuse citrus
make it random and confuse a lot of people 😃
c:ex ratio changes rapidly early in the league so it's probably outdated by tommorow
it usually goes up for a while, then stagnates, then goes down again
chrome topaz
yeah i need a better way to update the rate
compact isle
yup same
obtuse citrus
the only way I can think of is to figure out which trades are actually happening and base ratio on that
Don't ask me how though. Novynn can probably do some GGG magic though
chrome topaz
I mean better as in dynamically on the backend, not a higher quality rate
obtuse citrus
yeah but when you can dynamically figureout the rates via trades happening, you can use that as basis on the backend
chrome topaz
I wonder if I can ask ggg to add a map tab to my account so I can totally test acquisition with it and not because I want a free map tab
obtuse citrus
I suppose if they wanted to do that they'd could give it to you on a test server so it's essentially useless outside of that
😛
mortal bone
me 2, k thx
chrome topaz
I'm especially concerned about performance when an account has multiple, say, 10 or 20, map stash tabs
mortal bone
if only people had access to such an evironment
compact isle
they don't have a website implementation that works outside of the public stash api yet
mortal bone
how big is the tab?
compact isle
and they act is individual tabs as far as the public stash api is concerned
obtuse citrus
17
compact isle
each basetype is a tab
obtuse citrus
Ow
mortal bone
oh god
chrome topaz
@wind garden okay I started The Process, eta 10-20 hours
mortal bone
The Process™?
chrome topaz
of updating currency ratios
compact isle
72 per subtab
obtuse citrus
But wait, there's more! Unique maps 😄
mortal bone
yeah that is nuts
compact isle
yup
compact isle
plus shaped maps
chrome topaz
so if they buy this tab and use acquisition, they will always be throttled for like 4 minutes per refresh?
compact isle
that's why the website implementation isn't done yet
mortal bone
how are the tabs named?
compact isle
they inherit their parent's name
compact isle
there's only main tab -> base type
mortal bone
so all just <main tab>
compact isle
the tiers are fake
mortal bone
oh the buttons are filters
compact isle
yeah
essentially if the subtabs name is empty then it'll use the parents
so ~price 3c on the tab as a whole will show all subtabs with that price, and since the public stash api treats them as separate tabs it all works out in the end
chrome topaz
see? possible performance issues
compact isle
yes, it is a lot of data if the main tab changes
chrome topaz
exactly, now that we're on the same page, I'd like to request the addition of 10 (ten) map tabs to my account for performance testing
oh actually I happen to have exactly 150 points
compact isle
something important to note is that the subtabs only exist if there are items in them
mortal bone
What happens when all the items are removed? does it show that in the river?
compact isle
yeah, just like tabs that are deleted normally
read-only ones for example
they just show up with the same ID as before but with no items or information
mortal bone
👍
simple ravine
hehehe
so if people start filling their Standard league maps into those
and then rename them
you're gonna have a slight problem
mortal bone
same
obtuse citrus
several hundreds of remove only tabs
wind garden
wtb "send to tab ->" feature on other tabs
wind garden
ya that's been requested forever and apparently it's really a hard problem to solve
obtuse citrus
half my premium tabs have become useless with new tabs and QoL features
wind garden
Does anyone else have Visual Studio frequently stop responding and then thinking to themselves "Burn in hell devenv.exe!" as they kill the process via task manager?
wind garden
but but....no resharper
mortal bone
I had an issue when I upgraded to win 10 creators
2017 wouldn't start up unless I opened it from the console
wind garden
odd
mortal bone
Would have to click the exe then open up the devenv cmd
wind garden
I wouldn't be surprised if my issues are resharper related
but I don't know what I'd do without resharper
simple ravine
My bet is on Resharper
wind garden
wish Jetbrains would just rewrite their engine for roslyn
simple ravine
Jetbrains is a dumpster fire
wind garden
@polar island is that a #tooldev-general meme?
simple ravine
we had a slight disagreement around debugging practices the other day 😄
wind garden
lol ya I didn't read all of it but saw a bunch of print stuff
was it just arguing about whether to debug using a debugger vs adding print statements?
simple ravine
but you were so pro at programming you never had to use a debugger, iirc
wind garden
smh
mortal bone
in python lol
chrome topaz
there we go again
mortal bone
Yeah, I never write a single line of buggy code /s
I use the C/C++/C# debuggers all the time
they have their place
simple ravine
procedural ftw
wind garden
real programmers use fortran
mortal bone
haskell
chrome topaz
I did write an x86-64 jit for it though
simple ravine
omg i want the nvidia titan v
chrome topaz
can it run burning ground at 60 fps though?
simple ravine
probably not
chrome topaz
hazy fog
missingno 🤔
gritty olive
@compact isle so one map tab is 17 private stash tab requests?
that's going to suck 😦
I actually need one to test...
150 points...
I have 15
simple ravine
put stuff in it
cosmic saffron
think you have to set it up for map sets first
gritty olive
It has stuff in it
There is quite a bit inside of it
Returns nothing in the response
This is through the Private Stash Tab API btw
Looks like Maps tab is broken there
they don't have a website implementation that works outside of the public stash api yet
Makes sense since you would be rate limited just trying to fetch that single tab
Looks like rate limits are either going to go up or a merged result 😄
thinks whether he could do the network calls the game does for tabs
simple ravine
that's likely a bannable offense
gritty olive
As long as its not nefarious I'm not sure why it would get someone banned
simple ravine
start reverse engineering the network protocol and the encryption
gritty olive
If there even is
simple ravine
there is
gritty olive
Dunno some parts of the interface are doing basic API requests
chrome topaz
not in-game
simple ravine
@chrome topaz encryption or api-calls?
chrome topaz
api calls
gritty olive
Yeah it's a tcp tunnel
majority of payloads from PoE stay the same, (in game) but I feel thats the chat
it's very chatty
Like logging into the game is a consistent 7 byte payload that could be used to decrypt but im too lazy
halfway through it swapped over to a softlayer reverse proxy
chrome topaz
rewrote the pob-web renderer to use way less draw calls and it got like 50x slower
gritty olive
idk that does not look like an improvement
chrome topaz
why?
chrome topaz
wait i think i got it
well maybe not
@gritty olive it's not a problem this part is very fast
looks like this issue
gritty olive
thats what I thought yesterday the bufferdata vs sub
@chrome topaz nah I don't think that's slow
It just looks bad 😛
chrome topaz
thing is, allocating a new buffer on every multiquad makes it faster
gritty olive
PS D:\Grinding Gear Games\Path of Exile> .\PackCheck.exe
Checking pack file Content.ggpk...
Fatal error: Your pack file has become corrupted. Currently the only way to fix this is to delete Content.ggpk and download it again by running the client.
That's always fun
velvet fog
don't use Vaal Orb on Content.ggpk
fickle yew
@timid hemlock Any easy way to link builds into Path of Building which doesn't involve copy/pasting massive blobs of base64? Was considering something like a custom protocol pob://poe/<account>/<char> or pob://blob/<base64>..
timid hemlock
Doesn't the pastebin feature rather solve that problem?
fickle yew
Well, an "Open in PoB" link would be pretty nifty in my build indexer (not online yet).
I guess I could create a ton of pastebins, but..
timid hemlock
Oh, I suppose that use case is a little different
But still, the current system works fine for general usage
fickle yew
But even so, a custom protocol would make it very easy to link an import link from reddit.
But yeah, agreed 😃
timid hemlock
Custom protocols have a few challenges though; for one, it really requires that the program is installed
fickle yew
It does.
I could create a blob of base64 on my own site I guess.
and just make it easy to copy
I haven't looked into the format you're using yet, so I'd have to create that too.
fickle yew
base64'ed json?
timid hemlock
It's just the build XML file deflated and converted to base64
fickle yew
Ah, xml.
I could probably create that.
Would be pretty nifty when you find an interesting build to quickly transition into PoB for further digging.
timid hemlock
True
simple ravine
+1 for "open in ..."
chrome topaz
so gamepedia disabled semantic mediawiki on poe wiki, nice
and by nice i mean not fucking nice at all
mortal bone
Yeah, it is a real pain in the ass
It was causing performance problems when they switched to aws I guess
simple ravine
Lifting and shifting to cloud isn't just "copy vm" "put it in the cloud" "done", that's a real life lesson a lot of companies learns the hard way
mortal bone
I don't think curse could give two shits
chrome topaz
that's pretty funny considering curse/gamepedia is amazon now
simple ravine
Well, acquiring a company and getting shit transitioned and streamlined is really difficult sometimes. That's at least my personal experience
cosmic saffron
we actually have a guy from the curses team that hangs out in #wiki but he hasn't talked much
mortal bone
They were probably pushed to aws before it was ready and told to deal with problems as they came up
simple ravine
My guess is that the curse wiki code is a ball of mud
chrome topaz
that's pretty ridiculous for an "official" wiki
mortal bone
Well, ours is an official wiki, but a lot of them are just community wikis
chrome topaz
the absolute lack of communication from gamepedia
mortal bone
It is pretty par for the course iirc
the gamepedia admins don't communicate at all with omega
chrome topaz
while their business model is taking free community content (do wiki contributors get paid?) and placing ads on top
mortal bone
the people running our wiki don't get paid as far as I know
nor do the people adding content
chrome topaz
yeah that's ridiculous
mortal bone
I should say, I have added some content and never received payment lol
chrome topaz
i mean omega is like 95% of that wiki
simple ravine
So who'se ultimately responsible for the PoE wiki?
mortal bone
omega is the main admin
chrome topaz
he should definitely get paid
but considering he can't even get in touch with gamepedia admins lol
mortal bone
his bot does all the work and then people have to link mods to items
mortal bone
He is trying as far as I have read
or we can just chip in for a $3 vps and cloudflare it
chrome topaz
throwing a mediawiki on a server isn't a large project, but i do wonder how popular it is
mortal bone
boom wiki done
chrome topaz
very much doubt $3/mo would cut it haha
simple ravine
lol
mortal bone
ovh has some nice tiers
chrome topaz
do you know how many hits it gets per day?
simple ravine
GGG should just shell out a few hundred bucks for something solid and be done with it
zenith olive
Is this the place to ask POE.trade questions? Do they have their own discord?
chrome topaz
the place to ask poe.trade questions is on the forum https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/109153/page/490
mortal bone
not sure how many hits, nope
zenith olive
right... Whetstone tags aren't supported in Premium stash tabs?
chrome topaz
i'd estimate $100-200 per month should be enough for poe wiki
simple ravine
based on what metrics?
chrome topaz
likely even less
they have very few changes
most people i assume use it without logging in, so you can just cache output html most likely
mortal bone
Yeah it only changes for the first few weeks then content slow gets added after that
could be pretty heavily cached
chrome topaz
long time ago when the wiki was not hosted by gamepedia but by some dude
mortal bone
Yeah, he sold it to gamepedia
mortal bone
pretty salty about it too
chrome topaz
why?
mortal bone
they promised him a position running the wiki iirc, and it fell through
they didn't give him the full admin rights they had talked about and a whole bunch of other stuff
simple ravine
intellectual property wise, who legally owns the content on the poe wiki?
mortal bone
I think there was a write up either here or on reddit about it
simple ravine
and what license is it?
mortal bone
curse
chrome topaz
oh it's easy, you can just look at the bottom of the page
mortal bone
Content is available under CC BY-NC-SA 3.0 unless otherwise noted.
mortal bone
This site is a part of Curse, Inc. and is not affiliated with Grinding Gear Games.
lol what, "official wiki"
simple ravine
well, official in my opinion, is when GGG actually puts some effort in and maintain it
chrome topaz
so they can just take their content and go away
mortal bone
there was an annoucement and everything lol
simple ravine
two different things in my point of view
chrome topaz
so if you make a wiki and want to put ads on it (which would not be allowed under NC clause), you can contact all contributors and ask for permission to relicense
simple ravine
So let's host it with bitcoin on bulletprood moldovan hosting company, and just give them the finger
mortal bone
I hate that they use an NC license when they are using it for a commercial purpose
simple ravine
I know some guys
chrome topaz
at one point in my life i was hosting like 3 mediawikis and i felt miserable
never again
mortal bone
the hell
simple ravine
mediawiki from what I have discerned, is a piece of bleh
mortal bone
it works
chrome topaz
what i mean is there's very low added value by curse
simple ravine
Fiat Punto works too, but I prefer a Mercedes
chrome topaz
if you look at https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Special:Version
mortal bone
we could straight copy paste
chrome topaz
i guess a decent anti spam is good
because normally mediawikis get a shit ton of spam
simple ravine
would be fun to create something custom
mortal bone
Well, Cargo is installed, so I have a feeling they are switching to that
chrome topaz
yeah but next month they decide cargo is too slow and migrate to the next best thing
or rather, they just remove it and it's YOU who migrate the wiki
obtuse citrus
@chrome topaz what Emmitt said isn't really true, some admins do get paid, and regular contributors get a pro subscription (if you want to consider that payment) automatically . Curse not communicating at all isn't true either, it's just that the SMW problems have been fairly sudden and communication was bit slow (and I don't think they talked much to vini at all, you'll have to ask him). They've been looking into trying to make SMW work again (so far no success, it just bricks when turned back on...)
but regarding migrating smw to cargo, yes it's me who's stuck with it, some of the other curse wiki mangers that would be able to help migrating don't have the experience with lua so :/ But offered to help elsewhere regardless
Eventually switching from SMW to cargo was a long term plan, but it somehow it manged to kill the wiki and gamepedia with it so they had to turn it off suddenly
mortal bone
Hmm, are the admins getting paid picked from the community or are they curse employees assigned to the wiki?
obtuse citrus
It's contractor work from community members
mortal bone
Interesting, glad you guys are getting paid at least
chrome topaz
i see, that makes it way better
that aside
is poe/trade live search bricked?
@obtuse citrus is there a way to extract all unique names from ggpk?
unique name + base name
that's the "competitive advantage" part
woeful sphinx
uniques aren't in the ggpk
you could try to get something by looking at image names, but that's about it
chrome topaz
i see
i noticed they renamed(?) coward's trial and people are complaining now because my autocomplete is wrong
simple ravine
well if we share it in a github account
and then someone use that part to do whatever they want
chrome topaz
seems poe.com/trade is like 5 minutes behind in live search
and i can't update my unique item list because it's retrieved from the wiki and that's down
and i don't care enough to do it by hand
that one you can at least rewrite yourself semi decently
but when it's ventor's gamble it goes to shit
chrome topaz
wow you want me to just take that and just copy paste it in? what if it's got poetradesucks somewhere in there huh?
cosmic saffron
design a unique with a fated upgrade
simple ravine
lol
obtuse citrus
@chrome topaz not really no, the unique names themselves are in Words.dat IIRC, but there is no association between base types and unique properties
chrome topaz
okay
obtuse citrus
On a side note, it will be a while until I can fix items, it's huge and I dont know yet how I'll do the table
and api will have to use cargo ... but I dont have checked if the api actually has a cargo function
yeah it has it so got that covered
at least you dont have to familarize with SMW anymore
since it's essentially SQL
minus half the SQL functions
chrome topaz
cool
mortal bone
@chrome topaz why do you need the wiki to generate unique names/bases?
just parse it from the river
anytime something changes you wouldn't have to touch it
mortal bone
names you don't see in ~30 days probably don't exist anymore
the timeline is probably much less that that in reality
chrome topaz
that doesn't help because most activity is first few weeks of a new league which is when changes happen and people complain the most
misty merlin
@chrome topaz can't you use this to get all uniques + their bases? https://www.pathofexile.com/api/trade/data/items I expect this to be always updated.
mortal bone
I would assume that is the official trade sites list for items
but I wouldn't assume anything on the official site is up-to-date
hazy fog
dumb question probaly, @chrome topaz did youpush down the tier of all life mods on body armors with the new i86 mod?
misty merlin
Well, you might be right about it not being reliable, at least it's better than a wiki that is "down" 😉
mortal bone
@hazy fog I don't think he cares about mod tiers lol
wind garden
@chrome topaz you know when you type youtube.com into the chrome address bar and hit tab it goes to a "Search YouTube Video Search" bar. Would it be difficult to do something similar for poe.trade?
hazy fog
well he lists them on the side of items 🤔
obtuse citrus
Technically the community is wrong about the mod tiers anyway so :p
mortal bone
Yeah T1 is the worst
hazy fog
does ggg count them as t1 being worst?
damn ninja I was typing
makes more sense that way'
hazy fog
you'll never add a lower tier but adding higher tiers is likely
obtuse citrus
otherwise there isn't really a concept of tiers
mortal bone
people use tiers as rank not the actual tier
lethal flume
I like tier -13 mods.
obtuse citrus
I was thinking of doing it correctly on the wiki at some point and wait until it catches on
but it probably takes a while and not sure if I can stand the bitching
Besides, it's not too practical always... there are annoying cases
hazy fog
essence?
obtuse citrus
no, as I said it doesn't have a concept of tiers, so you have to make up the rules
The mod names are conviently named like Strength1 ... Strength2
but then there are names like Strength3_
or whatever
or disabled ones etc
hazy fog
lol
obtuse citrus
If you make a "sophisticated" rule like mods that do the same thing, with the same name... then you end up having mods that dont work
there is a hybrid accuracy mod I think that was T1, T2 flat and T3 percent orsomething
or the other way around
besides tiers I think might be actually misleading
their mod generation has become pretty complicated for something
I don't think -any- site besides the wiki actually showed some of the groups, there was this crafting simulator took them into account
obtuse citrus
Nope
I can't give an example via the wiki right now because they're pushing some updates to login system
lethal flume
The mod groups are very apparent on flask mods
obtuse citrus
for example in the list above, some mods only roll on certain items
only body armours can roll the highest tier of life rolls
mortal bone
Oh, you mean what rolls together?
obtuse citrus
I mean the "group" of mods, there are mutually exclusive groups
it's mostly used for "tiers", but things like added dmg to spells on daggers/wand is in the same group
so you can't have fire/cold/light added at once
mortal bone
Ah, yeah
obtuse citrus
yep, one example of the same group
I'm glad they haven't removed the weights from the data, I know they/some wanted to
it's a clusterfuck I dont know how anyone is supposed to figure this out reall
y
mortal bone
using currency
you could also read the river at this point
basically like using mass currency
obtuse citrus
it's not an easy feat though, stash api helps yeah so you dont have to spend billions of orbs
still
I don't think it necessarily helps to figure out some of the intrensics of "if jewel has mod x, spawn chance for mods a,b,c are lower/higher"
obtuse citrus
but really though? the mods seem to be evaluated in sequence
when you have 4 modifiers, the chances on each are changing for those specific cases even drastically
I'm not sure if it's enough figure out when you just see the end result
and not the process 1 to 4
mortal bone
You could see the correlation between the mods, but you wouldn't see the spawn chances of if you have 4 mods it is x% likely to get this mod
obtuse citrus
In any case I usually don't see this kind of 'research' done by the community, there are sometimes people trying but they disregard a lot of things
I believe the one really good case I'Ve seen was someone trying to figure out 6L chance
with a good sample size and proper methods
mortal bone
I have a feeling the stash api would learn towards good mods
obtuse citrus
and, the worst thing is if GGG changes a value all your data collected is useless
I mean they sneak inchanges midleague without patchnotes so you can't rely on that being correct either
mortal bone
you would be able to see the drop over time
dark heron
... why are my api calls waiting 1.3 minutes before returning..? O_o
mortal bone
your data would never be useless because it would change with the times
that is true, you would have to have a decent size before the change
obtuse citrus
but yeah the problem with stash api is that people are baised towards putting particular items there
mortal bone
the one thing you wouldn't be able to see is the tier distribution
you might be able to infer them though
obtuse citrus
the level of complications is why I'm mostly glad it's still in there
no guessing, mostly correct unless they change it server side
jaunty briar
@dark heron same problem here
mortal bone
Request 1: took 15.636503219604492 seconds
Data read took 0.9233269691467285 seconds
http://api.pathofexile.com/public-stash-tabs?id=2524-4457-4108-4844-1426
Request 2: took 40.078959941864014 seconds
Data read took 0.7531919479370117 seconds
http://api.pathofexile.com/public-stash-tabs?id=5000-6692-7440-10050-3898
seems pretty varied lol
deft jolt
Main site doesn't seem to work atm
obtuse citrus
poe crashing, poe website/api going down every so often, wiki dead
Great release D:
gritty olive
Lot of chatter today
fickle yew
simple ravine
@fickle yew pretty cool
chrome topaz
@misty merlin funny thing the official site has wrong names
i wrote a parser once and it had some wrong unique name
misty merlin
For some reason I'm not even that surprised...
chrome topaz
@hazy fog don't remember, what's the new mod?
hazy fog
higher number
chrome topaz
what's the name i mean
hazy fog
oh... uh
chrome topaz
@wind garden not difficult
hazy fog
Prime
chrome topaz
no i don't have it
mortal bone
@wind garden you can also right click any text box and "add keyword for search". You can then search something like trade: Bubonic Trail Murder Boots and it will take you directly to poe trade with that search
simple ravine
create a t-sql query thing with intellisense, and I'll use it everyday
LINQ-to-PoETrade plz kthx
simple ravine
yep
mortal bone
you would basically just convert the search terms to a query string and get it
chrome topaz
on poe.trade, we're going to support s-expressions for arbitrarily complex queries
and because lisp is cool
simple ravine
good luck with the adoption of that 😃
simple ravine
shops
.Where(item => item.BaseType.Contains("Bow") &&
item => item.PhysDps > 290)
.OrderBy(c => c.PriceChaosEquivalent)
.GroupBy(c => c.ImplicitMods)
.ToList()
😄
actually a little verbose for quick searches
mortal bone
Well, now just convert that to ?baseType=Bow&minPhysDps=290&sort=desc
lol
not sure how you would do the group by. THat actually would need more than one query I think
simple ravine
I'd create my own indexer to support that tho
mortal bone
@polar island why you no support firefox
simple ravine
I think I'll see how the stash tabs will perform with the new column store thing in sql server 2016+
mortal bone
oh i see
gritty olive
@fickle yew release!
wind garden
@polar island why do i get different results on poeapp than poe.trade for Hallowed Ground map?
yours shows a bunch for some chisels and 1c where the lowest on poe.trade is 2c
simple ravine
@wind garden You need to get poe.trade premium account, bruh
wind garden
lol wat
odd word to filter
anyways, I was searching on standard because I was using the speed search and didn't specify league
gg
chrome topaz
chrome topaz
even 9s is too long tbqh it should have notified me after hovering over the item in the inventory
simple ravine
i don't even see a live search feature on poe/trade
simple ravine
oh, intriguing
mortal bone
Well, it was 9s from placing the item in the stash?
The stashes could have updated on your first or second zoning. How long from when you received the data?
His websocket search is directly from the river
He said the other day he has a different processor for live searches
Yeah, that is what he was saying
He is processing all the live searches then sending data
He had like 11k and it was taking 1.5s
Polling?
@compact isle
Maybe it is taking that long to process?
Idk, seems nuts
simple ravine
priorities, man 🙂
mortal bone
gonna have to actually select your inner elements lol
at least they still support /deep/
oh, rip. nope
😦
you can create a shadow dom and use :host
well that might be a bit trickier lol
figured it might just be the dropdowns
simple ravine
any idea why PoE sometimes caps framerate at half my screen's refresh rate?
mortal bone
v-sync on?
simple ravine
so you're saying, i need a better graphics card?
mortal bone
or just turn off v-sync
simple ravine
please give me a reason to buy a new graphics card :D
mortal bone
you don't need it on unless you see screen tearing
v-sync is just a limited to cap the draw rate of the gpu to your refresh rate. It does nothing else. This generally prevents artifacts or screen tearing (if you have them), otherwise it just caps the framerate
simple ravine
well, that's not the entire truth