#tooldev-general | Path of Exile 1 & 2 | Page 47

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 10:52 AM

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or a chaotic disposition?

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 10:53 AM

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I wouldn't mind either

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 10:53 AM

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Maybe it's actually possible! It's definitely not something I don't foresee implementing

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Yet the "big update times" are new leagues

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and those times require prediction, base don meta changes

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 10:54 AM

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You'd need an auto-update application, for sure

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I might pitch in on something like that

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 10:55 AM

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If I'll do one (might be very well possible this year), I'll consult you for sure

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I'm quite confident, you're way more experienced in C# than I am

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and frankly I've never built anything like that

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 10:56 AM

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Right now I am working on an overall class library for domain logic to solve some problems

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I want to create an alternative to the AHK scripts out there, with richer UX

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Once that is done, perhaps we can collaborate on either adding features, or doing some kind of fusion between the two projects somehow

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just a proposal, consider it

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 10:57 AM

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@lapis drift if you go to http://filterblade.xyz/ - advanced -> you can upload a filter file already, it also preserves formatting, finds commented out entries and does other stuff too. We intend to opensource and MIT it over the course of the next year.

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@simple ravine that sounds fun actually - i never liked the current AHK solutions

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I'll think it through, thanks + I'll ask the 2 other devs/friends I designed FilterBlade with, what they think about it

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 10:58 AM

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I'm also considering making a poe.trade alternative, which as we've discussed before, tries to deal with the price fixer situation that seems to become just worse

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 10:58 AM

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@hushed relic thanks, I've played with it some time ago, however it's a lot different from what I would like to see in that department

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 10:59 AM

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I'd be glad to open up functionality and provide the data necessary through that projet for the pricing data

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 10:59 AM

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basically file imports, variables, loops, conditionals ('if' for starters)

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and a cli tool chain

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 11:00 AM

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Check http://filterblast.oversoul.xyz/ - it's advanced language generation does it already

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 11:00 AM

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but it's not open sourced AFAIK

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 11:01 AM

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Ayep.

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Anyway, gotta go, thanks for the talk

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 11:01 AM

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I would prefer CLI tools rather than GUI

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 12:04 PM

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Most gamers wouldn't however.

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But it wouldn't be too troublesome if you already have a GUI to supply a CLI for it

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 12:10 PM

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the right way is to have a library you can use programmatically, then a CLI/GUI/whatever else on top of it

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 12:11 PM

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Take note that your target audience is like at most 100-200 people

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absolutely best case scenario

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 12:12 PM

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more like 1-2 😄

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 12:12 PM

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most people either use some filter or use filtration to build something

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 12:13 PM

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well for me it's an opportunity to learn something new outside of job

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in this case it's 'how to write my own language'

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 12:14 PM

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that's a great motivation!

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 12:14 PM

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writing languages are for smart people, so i'll refrain from it xD

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 12:20 PM

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after doing this a lot during the past ~6 month: it's really fun

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but: you should find at least some use-cases

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as a practice: it's great though

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I've went from 0 in JS to "not horrible"

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maybe even "decent"

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 12:22 PM

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the use-case is actually very simple: for example you've got a 4000 LoC filter, I believe it's a pain to work with it

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but what it you could just break it into multiple 200-400 line files and be able to 'compile' it into a single file with a 1 CLI command?

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 12:25 PM

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It's not just a foreach(var r in ruleList){ r.SetFontSize(ruleList.branch(SetFontSize)) };

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there's a lot of hand-made finetuning

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and I already have a lot done to reduce that work

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for instance half the instances where it's just a ILVL >= 75 check, are auto-generated

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besides, no offense, but this is something where I prefer having full confidence and control - I've seen enough Filtration mistakes and written enough failsafes , to not have a good reason to change my deployment and code generation strategy

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FilterBlade is really a godsend when it comes to QA, I can "unit-test" filters with it, very easily.

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My 2 dev-friends did an outstanding job with some modules.

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 12:37 PM

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it's indeed usefull for some things, but I would also like to do many other

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 12:41 PM

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I think it comes down to if you can appreciate the complexity of Path of Exile's depth and breadth of combinations that can drop

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And NeverSink needs to be extra careful, considering the amount of people relying on his filters.

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 12:43 PM

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I see, I am not suggesting to use my tool because to begin with it's very very early in development

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right now I'm looking for what problems there are right now and how my tool can potentially solve in the future

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 12:46 PM

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I recently wanted to write a small tool/script that would allow pushing items into the correct stashtabs

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sadly GGG told me, it'd be not allowed despite obeying the 1 action/click rule

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._.

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macro yaddayadda

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+server strain

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 12:46 PM

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why wouldn't it be allowed?

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geez, GGG

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 12:47 PM

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if there were any opensourced solutions I would check them and try to use them to solve mine problems, and contribute to one, but there are simply none out there

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 12:47 PM

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looking at the salty comments from some of the GGG staff on reddit late last week as well, makes me wonder what's going on

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 12:47 PM

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I think they're under MASSIVE stress

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massive shifts, weekend work, I think balancing is the least of their problems

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I don't envy them

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 12:49 PM

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I kind of agree.

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But taking it out on the people who pay their salaries isn't really a good idea. If they're under huge pressure, dedicate someone that deals with the communications, and take a step back and get stuff done.

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 12:51 PM

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Bex does it already, it might be a good idea to not let her handle balance talk

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She has a super positive rep.

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 12:51 PM

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nah she wasnt the salty one

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she's nice

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 12:51 PM

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Well she never says bad/dubious news

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it's intended

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and she IS nice

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Any balance anouncements are done by devs

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prolly for the best

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 12:53 PM

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well.. im not easily offended, but when they make comments like Mark or whatever his name is, it make me think twice before purchasing new supporter packs

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 12:54 PM

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I think their major mistake lately, was trying to do too much and saying too little

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those charge changes aren't horrible in theory, but why now?

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overly rushed

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and messes with builds 1 week before release

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 12:55 PM

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In my opinion, quite illogical in combination with these changes

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And especially in the same changeset as that chest piece. I hope nobody paid for that

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 12:55 PM

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I'd probably change it work like that: get 4% more damage for each charge. Only applies to the charges you have most of.

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 12:55 PM

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Sure, it might give trappers some new incentives to use attack gems for their traps, but unlikely

pseudo ocean Jul 31, 2017, 2:18 PM

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huh server strain? as long as you do one click (right mouse click) I guess it's kinda fine : P

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I don't know how you would get the right tab + right items into the correct tab "legit" though

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 2:49 PM

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@pseudo ocean https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/6aiy4a/qol_suggestion_stashtab_arrangement_and_sorted/

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Each click is basically a "move to tab left", "move to tab right" or "ctrl+shift"

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Each click also get a Ctrl+C of the item, which is not a serverside action

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It assumes that you start with tab 0 open though.

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You'd need to save the information about the tab order

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beyond that: everything is automatic, just hotkey-spam an item and you'll move to the right tab and dump it in

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 2:56 PM

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@hushed relic I dont see any response from them, or is it buried deep somewhere?

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 2:57 PM

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It's a mail, I've contacted Bex

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 2:57 PM

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shoulda just done it, had people start use it

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 2:58 PM

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Yeah, I somewhat regret it, but I fully believe they'd forbid it ASAP

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Resulting in wasted dev time and potentially bans

mortal bone Jul 31, 2017, 2:59 PM

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the only reason they wouldn't let it happen is if you moved the items

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other than that it is 100% ok

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 2:59 PM

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what do you mean moved?

mortal bone Jul 31, 2017, 2:59 PM

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assuming you loaded your tabs before hand

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 2:59 PM

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it's just Ctrl+Click

mortal bone Jul 31, 2017, 2:59 PM

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you can't do that

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that is illegal

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 2:59 PM

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why? o.O

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that's the normal hotkey combination

mortal bone Jul 31, 2017, 3:00 PM

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because it is a pick-up and place

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2 server actions

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 3:00 PM

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But it's THEIR combination

mortal bone Jul 31, 2017, 3:00 PM

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doesn't matter

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 3:00 PM

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if you use the stashtab and click CTRL+Click it stashes the item

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besides, I'm not sure it's 2 actions, they might just have a "pushItem()" action

mortal bone Jul 31, 2017, 3:01 PM

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they would also call you on automation

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 3:01 PM

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or PushItemToStash()

mortal bone Jul 31, 2017, 3:01 PM

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Ctrl+C is 2 actions

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 3:01 PM

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no

mortal bone Jul 31, 2017, 3:01 PM

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...

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yes

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 3:02 PM

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ok, so that renders TradeMaco AHK illegal

mortal bone Jul 31, 2017, 3:02 PM

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picks up the item copies and places

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 3:02 PM

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it doesn't pick it up

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it just copies, which is client-side only

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I know it's a grey area though

mortal bone Jul 31, 2017, 3:02 PM

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pretty sure I have an email where I was told by chris I couldn't do something like this

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 3:03 PM

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Yep, he said the same to me 😄

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So in the end I know I can't do it anyway

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but mostly due to server strain

mortal bone Jul 31, 2017, 3:03 PM

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and it was because of a technical aspect of one of the things I was trying to do

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 3:03 PM

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they're afraid the tabswitching might kill the servers if a lot of people would use it

mortal bone Jul 31, 2017, 3:03 PM

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it could have been loading the tabs + ctrl clicking the item

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 3:03 PM

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would be nice if they stopped giving excuses, and say "hey i dont personally like this, please refrain from this"

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because i dont see how ctrl+c is a server-side thing

mortal bone Jul 31, 2017, 3:04 PM

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tab switching hits the server once per tab

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 3:04 PM

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yeah

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 3:04 PM

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yep

mortal bone Jul 31, 2017, 3:04 PM

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then ctrl+click hits the server at least once

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that is 2 or more server actions if tabs are loaded

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 3:04 PM

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sure, but I woldn't do both on one click

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One click either switches

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or pushes

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without picking it up

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 3:05 PM

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where the heck did my comment go

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 3:05 PM

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It's still automation ofc.

mortal bone Jul 31, 2017, 3:05 PM

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that is also illegal

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you could have two hotkeys

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not one that switches actions

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 3:05 PM

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if ctrl+click is more than one server action, their code is pretty dumb.

hushed relic Jul 31, 2017, 3:07 PM

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Pretty sure it's not more than one, but I don't really have the reason to do it anyway.

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 3:07 PM

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oh well, it's their game...

mortal bone Jul 31, 2017, 3:07 PM

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Most of the time it is because of their security measures

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The main reason you can't Ctrl click into guild stash

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 3:07 PM

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if they want to start ban paying customers because they use QoL improvements, good for them I guess

mortal bone Jul 31, 2017, 3:08 PM

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The problem is where does qol end

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 3:08 PM

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where unfair advantage begins

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 3:08 PM

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My SSD gives me unfair advantage

mortal bone Jul 31, 2017, 3:09 PM

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You can spin auto locating to be an advantage

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 3:09 PM

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auto locating?

mortal bone Jul 31, 2017, 3:09 PM

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sorting

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 3:15 PM

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in my humble opinion, they worry too much about the wrong things.
additionally, they seem to not want much to do with 3rd party developers in the first place, which is unfortunate. i see propular games introduce rich API sets, to stay more relevant in the long run.

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 3:16 PM

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modding helps long term success

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 3:16 PM

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last time I spoke about this, i took Riot Games as an example

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 3:17 PM

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It's obvious it's a bit problematic with games where the company wants to have control over everything but I think just providing data for external tools would already go a long way and not hampering the game

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perhaps even UI modding beyond item filters

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 3:19 PM

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well they "want to keep it a mystery, and let people discover it in game"

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but it seems like an unreasonable argument in my opinion. the players who want to keep it a mystery will do so, and the ones who don't, can use the tools they'd like to improve their experience

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 3:20 PM

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yeah I agree with that

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 3:21 PM

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your SSD doesn't give u unfair advantage, but it gives u an advantage.

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 3:21 PM

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It's not very fair to people who can't afford one

mortal bone Jul 31, 2017, 3:22 PM

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Especially running labs

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Or races

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 3:22 PM

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labs and races in particular

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but really you can spin the whole "advantage" thing a lot further

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I think stashtabs have become borderline P2W actually

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they give you a noticable time advantage

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 3:23 PM

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is that why they didn't implement SLI compatibility xD

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yes for sure, that's is borderline p2w

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but i mean.. win what?

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it's not like they have tournaments with cash prizes, or anything like that like dota or league of legends

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you don't really compete, except for bragging rights of being on the top of the ladder

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 3:25 PM

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they did have cash prices like tshirts for challenges

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also the notebooks I guess

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 3:25 PM

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which requires a lot more than just access to premium stash tabs, it requires serious skill

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 3:25 PM

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yeah but you'll have an advantage

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it's like buying 20% exp boost or whatever

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just not as obvious

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 3:26 PM

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well put it this way, they could've just put a $10 price tag on the game, and include X premium tabs

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 3:26 PM

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currency tabs for example save you a lot of clicks and sorting, and premium tabs offer serious economic advantages through the trade API

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 3:26 PM

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but you can instead enjoy the game for free if you'd like

mortal bone Jul 31, 2017, 3:26 PM

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Back in the day you have to collect 100 uniques and keep them

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They have since moved away from those challenges

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 3:27 PM

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come on, if you had such oportunity to earn good money you'd do it

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 3:28 PM

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yeah, im not complaining at all

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if u wanna seriously contend, put some skin in the game

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 3:29 PM

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I don't really mind either I'm just saying you can make a reasonable argument against it

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 3:29 PM

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but some people want it all for free, and have "equal opportunity" or they rage á la reddit

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 3:30 PM

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everyone has an equal opportunity to buy a stash tab 😉

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 3:30 PM

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the alternative would be to charge a fee for entering shit that would allow winning tangible prizes, and in return you also get X premium stash tabs and whatnot

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but people would rage about that too

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 3:30 PM

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people dont rage too much stash tabs yet because the benefits aren't as immediatly visible at the very least

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 3:31 PM

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moral of the story is this; however you spin it, unless you give it all for free, people will rage on you

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and even then, they do

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entitlement and such

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 3:31 PM

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reddit will complain about everything

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The MTX system is still rather fair compared to other games

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it's not like shavs is only available in the GGG store for real cash

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(like it would be in the worst P2W offender games)

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 3:34 PM

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those games that have tv and video commercials with tits'n'ass u mean?

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"win against your opponent in this epic battle game"

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 3:34 PM

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it's usually mmos or other online games with shitty publishers

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they also like to remind you every minute that you should be spending cash

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Maybe buy another inventory bag, and an exp boost. And oh, to get the best "refinement" on items maybe some of the potions

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See that new area? Perhaps buy access

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 4:03 PM

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yeah, that's a bit over the top, because some end up over-spending

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that's where the real issue lies in my opinion. the risk of over-spending

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and game developers should focus more on social consequenses, rather than vanity shit like "oh people might see the new gem on a site before they see it in game"

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i know it's not statistically significant, but i know the people i know who uses augmenting tools, such as iteminfo, neversink's loot filter etc, have played and paid more than the ones who didn't

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if it's thanks to those tools, or the other way around, one would need much more data

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 4:06 PM

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their systems have become more complicated too

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Figuring out a lot of things without data would be stupid

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even mods on items

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I don't think anyone was even talking about weights before I put that info on the wiki 😂

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I was thinking of showing tiers /properly/ on the wiki and see if people get 1) upset or 2) adapt it

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I mean, technically tiers dont exist but since you can tell from the naming of the modifiers they're intended to be there

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Also, there seems to more information on areas in the data then I thought

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all the spawn chances for the league mechanics in particular

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 4:17 PM

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put it this way, do you think PoE would have had the amount of players they have, if it werent for poe.trade?

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with that I mean meaningful players (someone who puts in a couple of bucks at some point)

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because if we're gonna be fair, the only one who really cares about the non-paying members, are themselves.

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might be harsh sounding, but deep down it's a fact

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 4:21 PM

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I think it's hard to place poe.trade in terms of how much impact in had on the amount of players

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PoE might actually be a better game with just the very basic trade

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the existence of 'efficent' trade essentially means it has to be considered when balacing the game

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One of the more common complaints is probably that the drops in path of exile are shit and extremly unrewarding

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but they also have to be with the existence of trade, as if they weren't it would just make everything too easily accessible and take the challenge out of the game (which it already does to some extend)

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so if you see it that way you can also make the argument poe.trade made players leave indirectly, because they were not statisfied with the itemization/loot

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 4:25 PM

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right

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they didn't have to make an extreme polar opposite of D3 😃

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 4:26 PM

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I think D3 being there was unfortunate

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Personally I think the situation with trade in PoE right now is pretty poor

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it's not really comitting to trade properly, which is unstatisfying when you expect trade

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and it's not really going the old way of having no proper trade either

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so you sorta have a bit of the worst from both sides

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 4:27 PM

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bottom line: I'm expecting to be able to enjoy the game's content, and have fun

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that makes me want to spend more time with it. when i spend more time with it, i get exposed to the mtx marketing, and spend more money

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easy as that.

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 4:28 PM

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Something else I want to note about the existence of trade

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it can take fun out of the game and make balance matter much more

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 4:28 PM

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now, the problem is *i can't enjoy the content without the help of trading, because its utter shit drop rate on relevant items, due to how mods are generated

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 4:29 PM

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because if >you< want to be part of the trade, you really have to be on the edge of the content, abusing overpowered mechanics and play super efficent to be able to afford anything

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 4:30 PM

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and that takes a lot of the fun out of it too

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 4:30 PM

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I mean of c ourse you can play a subpar build and accept that you won't be making bank, but still with the economy driven itemization you kinda want money if you want to do the stuff

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yeah

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 4:30 PM

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it's a cheap way of making content last longer, though

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 4:30 PM

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Hence I can see poe without trade being a better in some sense. Whether build x just does billions of damage doesn't start to really concern you when there is no "competitive" edge

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 4:31 PM

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ladder

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people will still care about competing, in some sense

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 4:31 PM

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ok I mean lab and ladder is there but I don't think it's the same scale of impact

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 4:31 PM

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but that's where diversity comes in and proper balancing

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 4:32 PM

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Trade more or less affects everyone not in SSF

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 4:32 PM

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thing is, that GGG is trying to play in the big boy's pond, but have a hard time doing so.

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i know it when i see it, because i'm operating a company in the same conditions more or less

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 4:33 PM

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It looks to me like GGG is getting close to being a big boy

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 4:34 PM

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the threshold is bigger than it looks like from a distance 😉

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 4:34 PM

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depends if you by big boy mean larger studios

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or actual giants

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like EA, Ubisoft

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 4:35 PM

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your competition in the genre where people would otherwise play

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which would essentially be D3, and Blizzard

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 4:35 PM

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which isn't a whole lot actually

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 4:36 PM

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surely, they have a long headway/history and warchest to go with it

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 4:36 PM

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true

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 4:36 PM

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having a warchest is really importamt when jumping into the big pond

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poker players would know what i mean as well

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you don't jump from 0.1/0.2 games into 10/20 games without accruing a bankroll accordingly to the higher stakes

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or you'll be playing with scared money, and consequently make 'fatal' mistakes

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 4:38 PM

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the risk is higher yes

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but they've already established themselves against competition

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they've also pretty much won at this point

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I think the warchest would be more significant when they deceide to take a new project

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right now they're still increasing their c onsumer base

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xbow is a very major step

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I've seen more localized languges (german, french) in the words in the 3.0.0 preview as well

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 4:40 PM

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until someone comes along and decides to compete, and gets the things people don't like about poe and d3 right

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that's what i mean with staying relevant in the long run (aforementioned)

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and the whole mentality of "we don't use data driven decisions, sure we take a look sometimes. we use our gut feeling more" type of comments are really telling

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and the "yeah, we don't really want to collaborate with 3rd party developers. let's keep an arms distance" type of thing will just hurt them.

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oh well, not my headache 😇

obtuse citrus Jul 31, 2017, 4:46 PM

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Well data driven decisions can be bad for the game even if they make economic sense

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 4:48 PM

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you obviously don't execute on data blindly

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 6:38 PM

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how can 3rd party devs be profitable for their business model?

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 6:38 PM

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i think i made that pretty clear in the discussion

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 6:40 PM

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sorry I think I lost the track at some point

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do you believe poe-trade made/still makes the game better?

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and is a part of the success?

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 6:44 PM

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i think the most relevant players from a financial standpoint would have had a lower average ARPU/LTV if trading was an even worse shit show than it is right now.

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the cohort in question is players who spent > $0

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 6:52 PM

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do they buy more mtx because they play more?

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 6:52 PM

#

they'd buy less mtx if the play less, so yes

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 7:08 PM

#

it seems correct but the answer to a question "What makes people buy pixels in games" looks much more complicated

#

are there any studies on that? can't find anything on google

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 7:10 PM

#

before getting into the nitty gritty, it's wise to get to learn the words used

#

http://www.superrewards.com/blog/game-developement-terms-metrics/

#

the thing is that yes, the answer to monetary success in a game like this is more complex

#

but the bottom line is that people have to continue playing for them to make any purchases.

#

nobody logs in, buy some shit and then go back to whatever they were doing before.

#

https://deltadna.com/blog/ is a good start

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 7:21 PM

#

... and working with 3rd-party devs will attract more people or make existing ones play more?

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 7:21 PM

#

yes

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 7:22 PM

#

because with 3rd-party devs the game will suck less?

#

because I don't see a room for custom gameplay features

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 7:22 PM

#

that's one correct of a multi-part answer

#

the ecosystem around PoE is in its infancy still, believe it or not

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 7:25 PM

#

I agree

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 7:25 PM

#

the more good stuff that's being created around your game, content wise - streamers, apps, sites etc increase the relevancy of the game

#

suppose you're a dude, you haven't played the game yet, but you heard of it somewhere

#

u check out the trailer, google it a little - and boom you see a rich set of sites, apps and streamers - you get inclined to play it more

#

versus if you just see the game's main site in the SERP with relevant content

#

then once you start playing, your experience will be augmented by the aforementioned content in one way or another, which creates an auxiliary stickiness to the game itself.

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 7:29 PM

#

so generally people talk about it -> I have to check it out too

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 7:30 PM

#

that's the first introduction to most games, right?

#

or a review of some sort

#

or an ad

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 7:30 PM

#

but what if I am an existing player, how can a website X make me play more?

#

newcomers can play 10-20 hours and the chance they buy anything is like 0%

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 7:33 PM

#

3rd party developers fill the gap with functionality desired by the community that is not necessarily in line with the game developer's core focus

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 7:34 PM

#

just to make it clear: I'm not arguing with you on this one, just really want to understand how it all works

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 7:35 PM

#

give it a real hard honest thought, would you play the game the same amount or more, if you had to sit and deal with trade chat to get the crap u wanted?

#

it's a pretty good test

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 7:35 PM

#

I believe GGG are not stupid and it they made such decision there a strong considerations behind it

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 7:36 PM

#

I mean if there were no poe.trade or anything.

lapis drift Jul 31, 2017, 7:37 PM

#

that's the question I was thinking about the last 30 minutes to be honest 😄

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 7:37 PM

#

my gut-shooting-from-the-hip-guesstimate is that GGG has at least 30% of their revenues to thank poe.trade for its existence

#

also, here's a hidden fact that few people talk about:

#

80% of the revenue come from less than 5% of the paying customers.

#

and I would be surprised if it was any different with PoE

civic sluice Jul 31, 2017, 7:44 PM

#

If you want an example of a game with lots of 3rd party support (without full on mods) take a look at world of warcraft

#

as of a few years ago when I last played, you could pretty much replace your entire UI and they had similar rules as GGG with 1 click -> 1 action (with some exceptions)

#

I can't speak for anyone else, but having that extra functionality definitely caused me to play more since the base UI was fundamentally insufficient to meet the demands of the game at high level play

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 7:49 PM

#

I would certainly not have been playing today if I had to scour the forums or sit in trade chat trying to get ahold of something i needed for my character.

#

I want to play the game, not sit there and scream into a pillow because there are no frigging drops.

#

Trade democratize the ability to reach end game content, because drops are so frigging random.

#

And will become even more random in 3.0

pseudo ocean Jul 31, 2017, 8:00 PM

#

I wish they would start filtering out people who has AFK Mode enabled or DND

#

should be a easy flag for GGG

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 8:01 PM

#

agree

pseudo ocean Jul 31, 2017, 8:01 PM

#

afk/dnd is the thing that makes trading horrible imo

simple ravine Jul 31, 2017, 8:01 PM

#

that, and price fixers

pseudo ocean Jul 31, 2017, 8:02 PM

#

yep

#

at least with pricefixers you can just skip to other ones

#

finding same item / unique but then they all have afk stinks

keen owl Jul 31, 2017, 11:44 PM

#

humble brag After researching python for two days followed by two days of writing code i finally managed to enter test data into my db for tracking unique's prices. From this experience i can safely say that writing code is easy but understanding what u wrote is hard. Thank you everyone for inspiring me to learn something.

http://prntscr.com/g2r24j

civic sluice Aug 1, 2017, 1:34 AM

#

when do you think that the dat file will be updated for 3.0?

velvet fog Aug 1, 2017, 8:11 AM

#

@compact isle Arcane Surge use 3 params on a mod

Arcane Surge grants % more Spell Damage\nArcane Surge grants % increased Cast Speed\nArcane Surge grants % of maximum Mana Regenerated per second

How about separate it into 3 stats?

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 8:59 AM

#

Pretty sure they're intended to use together in this case, you put 0 as value if you dont have a stat

#

considering this is only used by arcane surge it works fine

velvet fog Aug 1, 2017, 9:00 AM

#

Is it difference with 'Supported Gem' ?

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 9:01 AM

#

I'm not sure what you mean

velvet fog Aug 1, 2017, 9:09 AM

#

Supported Skill grants % more Spell Damage, etc

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 9:10 AM

#

Oh, yes it's different because the skill applies a buff which does those things

velvet fog Aug 1, 2017, 9:12 AM

#

I see

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 9:26 AM

#

Home office temperature: 30 deg C

waxen musk Aug 1, 2017, 2:07 PM

#

hey where can i get a list of uniques? wiki?

lapis drift Aug 1, 2017, 2:09 PM

#

as a dataset?

waxen musk Aug 1, 2017, 2:17 PM

#

ye like, as a list of mods on them

lapis drift Aug 1, 2017, 2:21 PM

#

see this discussion: https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Path_of_Exile_Wiki_talk:Community_portal#Item_template_v2:_Updating_unique_items

waxen musk Aug 1, 2017, 2:34 PM

#

eh i think im better off parsing pathofbuilding files

#

though theyre mixing in implicits

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 2:35 PM

#

I wish we could just agree on an intermediary "source of truth" that is more sensible than the wiki apis

#

which the wiki could then use as well

waxen musk Aug 1, 2017, 2:35 PM

#

you mean someones site that hosts all the apis in a more convenient format?

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 2:35 PM

#

like a github repo perhaps

waxen musk Aug 1, 2017, 2:35 PM

#

ye that would be pretty useful

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 2:37 PM

#

@mortal bone @obtuse citrus would you guys be interested in collaborating with that?

lapis drift Aug 1, 2017, 2:38 PM

#

you can't do http requests in wiki modules

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 2:38 PM

#

@woeful sphinx and I have talked about that a bit

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 2:38 PM

#

I would be happy to contriubte in any way

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 2:38 PM

#

We have been thinking about a repo that holds all of the data that you can just git and be done

#

Things like beta and lives trees.

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 2:39 PM

#

PyPoE already has most of the stuff you'd need, I've considered adding an unique db but I deceided it was just annoying to maintain that alongside the wiki

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 2:39 PM

#

Yeah, like RePoE but also with data that's not in the GGPK

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 2:39 PM

#

It also gives a solid overview of what has changed

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 2:40 PM

#

Let's figure something out together. I think that's a good way forward.

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 2:41 PM

#

Probably easier to pull that from the Wiki than the other way around

#

Which wouldn't be much work, would pretty much just be moving the unique pulling from PoESkillTree to RePoE (maybe converting it to Python)

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 2:42 PM

#

it's fairly trival to do with the mediawiki api

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 2:43 PM

#

Yep

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 2:43 PM

#

I never figured out how to use that cryptic thing

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 2:43 PM

#

read the docs? lol

#

https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Path_of_Exile_Wiki:Data_query_API

#

has the links here

#

and some examples

#

There are mediawiki api bindings for most languages which means you wouldn't need to do the url/response handling yourself, which just cuts it down to basic api usage

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 2:47 PM

#

My concern is versioning the data

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 2:47 PM

#

The only issue I had with that was that explicit mods of uniques would just randomly be reordered. So seeing what has changed just from the diffs is not obvious.

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 2:47 PM

#

but fine, i guess we'll just use the wiki

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 2:48 PM

#

@woeful sphinx I'd have to look into that

#

mean the order in "Has mod ids"?

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 2:49 PM

#

If we'd not use the wiki, building that data yourself (mapping mod texts to mod ids) is a lot of manual work.

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 2:50 PM

#

It is done manually on the wiki so there is that and we already got people besides me doing it now

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 2:50 PM

#

@obtuse citrus "Has explicit mod ids"

#

but probably also for the other ones

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 2:51 PM

#

it might be a SMW thing, the lua table order should not change but I need to check

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 2:51 PM

#

Yeah it's already manually done there, so it'd be a lot of duplicate work since I don't think they would all move to work on raw json files.

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 2:52 PM

#

You just need to move uodatedb lol

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 2:53 PM

#

best thing would be if ggg just gave us a table for the unique items but when I asked chris they didn't want to put the work into it 😭

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 2:54 PM

#

@simple ravine versions are easy on github you just release and the source is attached

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 2:54 PM

#

@mortal bone I'm well aware of how git works.

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 2:55 PM

#

And they already have the data. It was in the GGPK at some point. They'd just need to throw the stuff out they don't want us to see.

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 2:55 PM

#

Btw, we should probably make this an organization instead of a single account

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 2:56 PM

#

yeah but that's work they don't want to commit to that atm it seems, also think no complete consensus there whether they should at all

#

so we're just left dealing with what we have

#

For now a sensible solution to have a data dump is probably to just use @woeful sphinx RePoE repo and add the uniques from the wiki

#

or just move the "compiled" data into it's own repo

waxen musk Aug 1, 2017, 2:59 PM

#

skill tree is also not in ggpk?

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:00 PM

#

it is

#

it's just spread out over a bunch of files

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:01 PM

#

It is and isn't easily put together

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:02 PM

#

I have skill tree generation working for the most part, but I can't do the sprites at the moment because there isn't a python library that can read the DDS image data properly currently

#

the ones that do only support other versions of DDS it seems

#

and I don't really want to implement the dds format myself atm

lapis drift Aug 1, 2017, 3:03 PM

#

@obtuse citrus I've done it like a year ago and even shared with you lol https://github.com/Vlad-Zhukov/poe-tree-renderer

waxen musk Aug 1, 2017, 3:03 PM

#

hmm POB sources contain byte order marks? pretty sure lua engine chokes on those >.>

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 3:04 PM

#

@waxen musk you can take https://github.com/EmmittJ/PoESkillTree/blob/master/WPFSKillTree/Data/Equipment/Uniques.xml for now. probably easier for you to handle

waxen musk Aug 1, 2017, 3:04 PM

#

i kinda like the variants though

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 3:05 PM

#

And that's gonna be pretty similar to what would end up in RePoE when its put there like @obtuse citrus suggested

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:05 PM

#

We have byte masks in PoESkillTree

#

You have to for the first few bytes of the url

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:05 PM

#

@lapis drift I mean not rendering the tree but compiling into json or lua for PoESkillTree/PoB

#

wait actually, did PIL work for you with the DDS images? When I tried it it couldn'T read the dds data

lapis drift Aug 1, 2017, 3:06 PM

#

@obtuse citrus https://github.com/Vlad-Zhukov/poe-tree-renderer/blob/master/src/Renderer.py#L797

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:06 PM

#

Just json for now

#

Also, we need to make sure it is the same as live format

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 3:06 PM

#

there should be .png versions of those files on the CDN though, right?

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:06 PM

#

Oh I see you're using that hack hehe

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:06 PM

#

And probably host the images ourselves

#

@simple ravine if the server is up

lapis drift Aug 1, 2017, 3:07 PM

#

@obtuse citrus it's not a problem to create a json out of this

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 3:07 PM

#

right, but that would alleviate the issue of not being able to convert dds to png, as a batch process

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:07 PM

#

Beta doesn't have skill tree files hosted anywhere

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 3:07 PM

#

and beta closes in 3 days.

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:08 PM

#

Been 2 probably will be 3

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:08 PM

#

thezensei with what thefrz linked me I can handle the dds just fine in python

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 3:08 PM

#

👌

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:08 PM

#

also t here is imagemagick if you just want to convert

lapis drift Aug 1, 2017, 3:10 PM

#

I'd be glad to help with tearing up my lib into a set of useful fnctions

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:10 PM

#

@lapis drift Well my converter is mostly done besides the image conversion https://pastebin.com/Z9uGcwaH

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:11 PM

#

I am cool with keeping the format updated as well

lapis drift Aug 1, 2017, 3:12 PM

#

I see you want it to generate the JSON only

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:12 PM

#

yea

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 3:12 PM

#

u talking about the tree or uniques still?

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:13 PM

#

tree

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:13 PM

#

Tree

lapis drift Aug 1, 2017, 3:13 PM

#

I would like to have a set of universal functions that you can use for anything

#

it just feels like everyone reinvents the wheel for their own needs 😄

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:14 PM

#

Most just want updated json

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:14 PM

#

Well the foundation to make your own passive tree viewer is there already in PyPoE, the point is just to be able the generate the json as GGG delivers it

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:14 PM

#

We already have all the tools that need it

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:14 PM

#

because a lot of tools depend on it

#

yea

lapis drift Aug 1, 2017, 3:16 PM

#

sure but it's not useful for the wiki for example

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:16 PM

#

implementing a skill tree on the wiki is another story :x

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 3:16 PM

#

@lapis drift the problem with anything that's more than data is that everyone uses different languages so they can't all use the universal functions

lapis drift Aug 1, 2017, 3:16 PM

#

no, I mean for exporting the data

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:17 PM

#

Not sure what you mean thefrz

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:17 PM

#

Isn't that what pypoe does?

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:18 PM

#

@mortal bone only some of the wiki stuff, not all of it

lapis drift Aug 1, 2017, 3:19 PM

#

I'm just suggesting to move the parsing logic to shared/in pypoe

#

once you have the mechanism for that you can implemet other things on top on it

#

like JSON generating, wiki exporting and so on

waxen musk Aug 1, 2017, 3:20 PM

#

uniques required level is determined by its base/mods right?

#

i mean it doesnt have to be stored separately

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:21 PM

#

I see what you mean but the problem with that is (and why I haven't done much of this yet) is that people have very different needs when it comes to how they use the data

#

the GGG json implementation is pretty dumb is some ways for example

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:21 PM

#

Mhmm....

#

It has gotten better

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:22 PM

#

Same reason I deleted my SQL exporter then updating it recently. There are different SQL flavours where other approaches are optimal (different data types, storing stuff differently) and it's best to properly design your things around your needs

#

I could the same about RePoE, it's designed around a specific need

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 3:23 PM

#

@waxen musk it's max(base item level, 0.8 * highest mod level) like for rare items, yes

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:24 PM

#

Shouldn't we just create the standard?

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 3:24 PM

#

@obtuse citrus yeah, I mostly just did what I needed myself, but tried to keep it general enough for others to also use

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:24 PM

#

Why not just be the first general use data

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 3:25 PM

#

and since it's just data I guess anyone can use it somehow

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:25 PM

#

You don't have to worry about supporting all the formats

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 3:26 PM

#

I mean, it should be useable for most use cases. But I can't foresee what format would be best for others

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:26 PM

#

Exactly the problem I'm facing

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:27 PM

#

XML and json have good parsers in every language

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 3:27 PM

#

the SMW json format is a real pain tbh

#

with the printouts thing

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:28 PM

#

can't change that though :p

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 3:28 PM

#

a good reason to maintain a more sensible format, as I previously mentioned

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:28 PM

#

@mortal bone The problems starts here when you think about what to do with foreign keys/references

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:29 PM

#

Rip bot

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:29 PM

#

(omg automod removed my message ...)

#

if you resolve them all files get too big, if you don't you might as well use the barebores dat -> json export

lapis drift Aug 1, 2017, 3:30 PM

#

I don't get it why we just can't have a PyPoE module that parses all this tree-related files and returns an in-memory structure? Once you have it you can do anything you want with it

#

I am willing to help with it

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:31 PM

#

Then you are forced to use a 3rd party library that is pretty volatile

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 3:31 PM

#

is there a way to make it printout all the properties, or do I have to enumerate all the fields possible?

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 3:32 PM

#

And you are forced to use Python

lapis drift Aug 1, 2017, 3:32 PM

#

come on, we are already using it

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 3:32 PM

#

(or can write your own exporter on top of it)

#

Most actual applications don't

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:32 PM

#

PoESkillTree isn't, path of building isn't

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 3:33 PM

#

my stuff isn't / won't

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:33 PM

#

All the web apps and mobile apps aren't

lapis drift Aug 1, 2017, 3:33 PM

#

sorry you don't get what I'm trying to say, nevermind

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 3:33 PM

#

but for exporting data into a sensible format, which is then hosted on a git repo, the language isn't that important

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:34 PM

#

@obtuse citrus break them by category? You could get a lot of smaller files with a mega file telling you the structure of the little ones

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:34 PM

#

@simple ravine browsebysubject puts out all property on a page if you use print out you can pass it multiple properties

#

just separate multiple ones with a pipe ( | )

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 3:35 PM

#

I am just trying to create a query that will enumerate all uniques and all their properties

#

And according to the wiki, the askargs was recommended

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:35 PM

#

Updatedb in PoESkillTree has that

#

In C#

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:35 PM

#

yeah because you probably don't need all the properties on a page

#

a lot them are just for use on the wiki

#

@mortal bone I think keeping the foreign keys is the only sensible way to do it tbh. World areas for example have connections to the next area

#

and that area to the next...

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 3:37 PM

#

pretty frustrating thing, this SMW lol

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:37 PM

#

if you include the whole data I dont know how big you end up with, but something really huge

#

(it's why you use foreign keys anyway :P)

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:38 PM

#

Of course

velvet fog Aug 1, 2017, 3:38 PM

#

The full .dat to MySQL is about 27MB

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:38 PM

#

You can make the reference a file name though

#

That is pretty small

#

Something like reference_file reference_name would work

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:40 PM

#

Well my raw export does this already sort of it, it includes the specification header

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 3:40 PM

#

@simple ravine It has a sandbox if you haven't found that yet. https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Special:ApiSandbox#action=askargs&format=json&conditions=Has+rarity%3A%3AUnique&printouts=Has+name|Has+explicit+mod+ids&parameters=&formatversion=1 returns uniques with name and mod id

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:40 PM

#

Only thing I dont really have raw exports for are file formats other then .dat

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:41 PM

#

As long as it is documented the format doesn't matter too much

#

That is what versions are for

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:42 PM

#

http://omegak2.net/poe/PyPoE/CLI/dat.html#dat-json

#

😛

velvet fog Aug 1, 2017, 3:43 PM

#

make a git to store all json files?

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 3:43 PM

#

thanks, @woeful sphinx

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:43 PM

#

@velvet fog we are thinking of making a git with everything

#

Skill tree data, uniques, etc

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 3:44 PM

#

If it requires any funding of any sort, i'm happy to chip in, let me know

#

forgot if organizations are free or not

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 3:45 PM

#

organizations are free

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:45 PM

#

They are free

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 3:45 PM

#

private projects are thing that is not, i think

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:45 PM

#

Correct

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 3:45 PM

#

but that doesn't matter for us

#

If we want to use RePoE as basis for that, I don't mind moving that to an organization

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:47 PM

#

I should probably move PoESkillTree to one lol

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 3:48 PM

#

From what I've read GitHub does redirects from the old location and all that kind of stuff. So there isn't much of a downside 😛

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 3:49 PM

#

fyi, i'm working on a library for generic things, would be willing to move that into the organization as well

#

c#

#

it's a bit unfinished right now, but will be cleaned up soon

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:50 PM

#

@woeful sphinx we should move updatedb

#

It isn't a terrible base for this stuff

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 3:51 PM

#

Yeah, and the RePoE parsing in there could also be moved, it's probably similar to what @simple ravine did

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:51 PM

#

It probably makes most sense to have two repos

#

a) generation

#

b) only data

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:51 PM

#

Correct

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 3:52 PM

#

I'm actually re-using the data form your library, @woeful sphinx. The funcitonality I'm writing is logic revolving around the data provided by those files.

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:52 PM

#

Maybe one for images?

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 3:52 PM

#

@simple ravine are using the stuff in PoESkillTree?

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:52 PM

#

Not sure if everyone wants all the images

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 3:52 PM

#

no

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 3:52 PM

#

That's the stuff i meant 😄

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 3:53 PM

#

for images, Git hub has another offering for binary files

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:53 PM

#

Not sure if ggg is entirely happy with posting all the game images though

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 3:53 PM

#

which could serve perfectly for images and that type of assets

#

I guess they could let us know if they don't find it fun

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:54 PM

#

We can email Chris

velvet fog Aug 1, 2017, 3:54 PM

#

I had my own .ggpk, .dat, .psg, .dds, .smd parser, in PHP

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 3:55 PM

#

https://git-lfs.github.com/ was what I was thinking about, btw

#

I haven't used it personally yet, but I've got an employee that raved about it

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 3:56 PM

#

Thing is, I'd rather work on rewriting PoESkillTree's computation stuff atm. So not sure when I'd get to moving stuff around.

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 3:57 PM

#

with 3.0.0 near I'm busy with the wiki :p

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 3:57 PM

#

Let's revisit the idea in a few weeks?

velvet fog Aug 1, 2017, 3:57 PM

#

I'm almost ready for 3.0 :p

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 3:58 PM

#

Most importantly, what do we call the organization

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 3:59 PM

#

The two hardest things in programming: naming and cache invalidation xD

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 3:59 PM

#

I'll probably not be done by then, but if all I need to do is moving stuff around, I should find time for that

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 3:59 PM

#

"poe-tool-dev"

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 4:01 PM

#

I'd call it poe-data

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 4:01 PM

#

Are we limiting the organization to the stuff just revolving exporting and importing data?

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 4:01 PM

#

Nevermind

#

The organization poe-tool-dev yes I was thinking about the repo

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 4:02 PM

#

Ah

lapis drift Aug 1, 2017, 4:02 PM

#

it can be as simple as 'data'

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 4:03 PM

#

or that

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 4:11 PM

#

For items I see that there is an inventory icon in the wiki, however, there is no reference to the CDN url of the item art saved, or?

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 4:12 PM

#

no because it's stored on the wiki

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 4:12 PM

#

Assume I'd like to include the art in a software, it would perhaps we unwise to use the wiki as the image source...

#

Hence me asking

woeful sphinx Aug 1, 2017, 4:13 PM

#

you can derive the cdn url from the metadata id, I think. But I just downloaded the wiki images directly.

obtuse citrus Aug 1, 2017, 4:13 PM

#

unfortunatly not

#

it might work in some cases

#

(regarding the url from metadata)

simple ravine Aug 1, 2017, 4:15 PM

#

A humble suggestion for the data repository 😃

#

for regular items, you can derive the cdn url from the dat data, so that's no biggie

velvet fog Aug 1, 2017, 4:15 PM

#

@compact isle 'Choking Ash', Flavour.Code=UniqueJewel107 but ItemVisualIdentity.Code=UniqueJewel108, so strange, and same as 'Straight and True' with Flavour.Code=UniqueJewel108 but ItemVisualIdentity.Code=UniqueJewel109

pseudo ocean Aug 1, 2017, 9:01 PM

#

Who should I speak to if I'd want to invite my discord bot to this server?

mortal bone Aug 1, 2017, 9:10 PM

#

<@&174997701513969665> or <@&174997233853399041>

desert roost Aug 1, 2017, 9:10 PM

#

Already answered.

hexed wasp Aug 1, 2017, 9:10 PM

#

stahp

hazy fog Aug 1, 2017, 9:11 PM

#

D:

pseudo ocean Aug 1, 2017, 9:13 PM

#

qq

compact isle Aug 2, 2017, 1:35 AM

#

certainly odd @velvet fog I've passed that along

vapid crane Aug 2, 2017, 4:26 AM

#

may i bother a <@&174997233853399041> for a moment? because I saw you guys added a link to FilterBlade on the tool list! thank you for that first of all, but the link seems to be broken, there is a missing ":" between the "http" and "//www"

mortal bone Aug 2, 2017, 4:27 AM

#

Should be good now

vapid crane Aug 2, 2017, 4:28 AM

#

yup. thanks again, really appreciate it! <3

mortal bone Aug 2, 2017, 4:28 AM

#

Np

velvet fog Aug 2, 2017, 6:01 AM

#

hope .torrent for pre-download

wind garden Aug 2, 2017, 6:10 AM

#

will we get passive json tomorrow?

compact isle Aug 2, 2017, 6:21 AM

#

that's currently the plan, barring anything unforseen of course

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 12:38 PM

#

@woeful sphinx hey are you planning to update repoe to 3.0 or only after release?

woeful sphinx Aug 2, 2017, 12:40 PM

#

Gonna do that once the patch is out so I don't have to change the code to use the beta dat specification

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 12:41 PM

#

ah okay im trying to parse unique stats from pathofbuilding, guess ill just ignore the 3.0 ones for now

woeful sphinx Aug 2, 2017, 12:41 PM

#

If you do need the data now, you can try to change it to use the beta spec and run it yourself

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 12:42 PM

#

guess ill wait, i dont have a 3.0 game yet

#

dont think i have the game installed at all now actually

woeful sphinx Aug 2, 2017, 12:42 PM

#

Me neither, so that's another reason why I didn't update it yet 😃

#

But the PoB unique data doesn't seem to rely on any game data, or does it?

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 12:44 PM

#

i think its collected manually

#

its just that i cant parse it because mods.json doesnt have the new mods

woeful sphinx Aug 2, 2017, 12:45 PM

#

do you want to parse that back into mod ids?

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 12:45 PM

#

stat ids actually, so i can have all versions

woeful sphinx Aug 2, 2017, 12:45 PM

#

that won't work with variants, though

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 12:45 PM

#

does the wiki have 3.0 stuff?

woeful sphinx Aug 2, 2017, 12:45 PM

#

~~the old stats may not exist anymore~~

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 12:45 PM

#

i havent seen any 3.0 updated items on the wiki yet

#

im pretty sure the mods exist, but rolls might not be in correct ranges

#

otherwise the game wouldnt even be able to display the item

#

which is why i'm parsing them into raw stats

woeful sphinx Aug 2, 2017, 12:46 PM

#

not sure what they do with complete stat changes, but yeah, they'd have to exist to be translated

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 12:47 PM

#

complete stat changes have to apply retroactively i guess

#

like the chaos conversion added a 60% formatter to everything

woeful sphinx Aug 2, 2017, 12:47 PM

#

was thinking more on the lines of adding/removing entirely new mods

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 12:47 PM

#

i suppose they never actually go and patch all the existing items

#

can you think of an example where it would mess with existing items though?

woeful sphinx Aug 2, 2017, 12:48 PM

#

legacy items do still need to be translated in-game, so no

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 12:48 PM

#

translations might change, i.e. the ailment stuff etc

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 12:49 PM

#

yea thats why im having lots of trouble with POB data

#

because it has lots of old wordings

woeful sphinx Aug 2, 2017, 12:49 PM

#

yeah, you can't like get the old chaos conversion back

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 12:49 PM

#

and i have to manually fix it

#

and it randomly uses different unicode symbols for "-" >.>

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 12:49 PM

#

wonder how stash river will look like after 3.0 if u start from the beginning

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 12:50 PM

#

you mean the trade api?

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 12:50 PM

#

public stash api, yea

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 12:50 PM

#

idk i only used it once to grab a few pages of items

#

does it only give you the updates if you start from scratch? or will you actually pull all existing items

velvet fog Aug 2, 2017, 12:51 PM

#

waiting for final content.ggpk

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 12:51 PM

#

right, but lets assume they retroactively change the wordings of a stat

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 12:52 PM

#

id imagine you would only get the actual updates

#

like, the backend that looks for changes probably doesnt care about translations

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 12:52 PM

#

because if so, you'd have to keep two versions of the translations in memory, worst case

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 12:53 PM

#

ye i guess you will have to support old items for a while if you still have them stored

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 12:53 PM

#

nah if I fetch change-id 0 after the patch

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 12:53 PM

#

oh

#

i assume they will give you correct translations

#

depends on when they actually do the translations i guess

#

if they cache too much, then it can be bad

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 12:53 PM

#

exactly

#

@compact isle Do you have any insight how translations in the stash api will work? Will changes to translations be reflected, or do we have to take two versions of the stat translation into account?

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 1:03 PM

#

hmm do legacy mon'treguls still have increased zombie damage, or theyre all "more" now?

#

since the "increased" mod doesnt seem to exist anymore

obtuse citrus Aug 2, 2017, 1:06 PM

#

I'm pretty sure the stash api uses whatever translation the live version of the game uses

paper nymph Aug 2, 2017, 1:07 PM

#

it's "More" now

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 1:23 PM

#

okay so they do update old mods when this happens, good to know

compact isle Aug 2, 2017, 1:37 PM

#

yeah as Omega_K2 puts it, the stash API always serves live data

#

the items are deserialized from a binary format and stat descriptions etc are all generated during the API call

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 1:38 PM

#

Okay. Thanks for the confirmation. That calmed my nerves!

compact isle Aug 2, 2017, 1:38 PM

#

unfortunately for people who have old river data, there's no real easy way for them to update their existing items without restarting from the river 😦

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 1:39 PM

#

I will just re-iterate my sincere wish for machine-redable stats on the river feed. 😉

compact isle Aug 2, 2017, 1:40 PM

#

yep I understand the desire, it'd just be a very big step

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 1:40 PM

#

work wise, or?

compact isle Aug 2, 2017, 1:40 PM

#

work wise and otherwise, the website doesn't understand any of that data

#

essentially what you'd want would be the raw stats and their values

#

then to rebuild the "mods" and stat descriptions yourself

#

(on the third-party side)

#

that doesn't exactly seem clean either...

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 1:42 PM

#

I can see three different ways you could potentially solve that issue:
a) Create a separate endpoint that would include this instead of the human-readable version
b) Change the output based on a parameter (?id=x&version=y)
c) Append both of those properties, in an ahoc manner (with different property names) - this would be my least favorite, as it'd add strain to both your servers and the consumers.

#

That way, the choice is explicit.

#

no pun intended 😇

compact isle Aug 2, 2017, 1:43 PM

#

lel

#

doing it with raw values is also annoying since (as some of you have discovered) a lot of values have been retroactively fixed by applying some function rather than updating all existing items

velvet fog Aug 2, 2017, 1:45 PM

#

Content.ggpk or Passive Tree Json tomorrow?

compact isle Aug 2, 2017, 1:45 PM

#

skill tree data + item filter stuff should be tomorrow as far as I'm aware

#

I don't know if we're doing a torrent thing

obtuse citrus Aug 2, 2017, 1:45 PM

#

Well you apply the stuff from the stat descriptions anyway at the end of the day when messing with the raw values

compact isle Aug 2, 2017, 1:46 PM

#

yeah it's just that that then creates a dependency on you understanding the stat descriptions which is a whole different ballpark

#

it's like stats that lie

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 1:46 PM

#

Yes, I understand there are implicit consequences of adding those raw values. Such as, people will be starting to ask some question about "how do I figure out what these mod stats mean?" and you'll end up having ot provide a static data API for that as well... which of course I feel would be a good thing as well 😉

compact isle Aug 2, 2017, 1:47 PM

#

exactly

obtuse citrus Aug 2, 2017, 1:47 PM

#

The text can lie more though 😄

indigo shale Aug 2, 2017, 1:47 PM

#

has anyone successfully ran PoB on linux? I tried it through wine and PlayOnLinux and can't get it running...

compact isle Aug 2, 2017, 1:47 PM

#

hence the very big step I was talking about

#

indeed! That makes it even more confusing

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 1:47 PM

#

Currently, I am trying to create a parser that will decompose composite modifiers, which is a living hell, though.

compact isle Aug 2, 2017, 1:47 PM

#

yup yup

#

understandably so

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 1:51 PM

#

Are there any last-minute changes to the .dat files that would render our efforts of parsing the .dat files with the current beta files futile?

obtuse citrus Aug 2, 2017, 1:52 PM

#

yes :p

compact isle Aug 2, 2017, 1:52 PM

#

I don't really touch that kind of stuff, but I think you should be pretty safe

#

there might be some changes for Harbinger though

#

pertaining to the fancy item sharding stuff for example

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 1:53 PM

#

Will be interesting to see how people react to that mechanic, indeed

compact isle Aug 2, 2017, 1:53 PM

#

yeah I'm quite removed from the tech behind it so I wonder what kind of drop rates / requirements we'll see

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 1:53 PM

#

I especially feel good about the new currency shards and orbs. I think they're a good addition.

compact isle Aug 2, 2017, 1:54 PM

#

yeah exactly! I like the idea of higher currency tier shards

#

at most they'll take up one slot in your stash since reaching a full stack just makes them a normal orb

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 1:54 PM

#

Watch the guys in standard who sit on a bunch of Mirror become slightly nervous 😉

compact isle Aug 2, 2017, 1:55 PM

#

really like the annulment orb or whatever it is

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 1:55 PM

#

Right... I was wondering about the reason why the Currency tab wasn't re-vamped to add shard-specific slots like you can see for alchemy orbs and such, which hints that the currency additions might be a temporary visit?

compact isle Aug 2, 2017, 1:55 PM

#

always thought that should be in the game, plays perfectly to the idea of chance

obtuse citrus Aug 2, 2017, 1:56 PM

#

I made sense to not add those when Eternal Orbs still dropped

compact isle Aug 2, 2017, 1:56 PM

#

yeah not sure what's going on there myself, I've been swamped with other stuff

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 1:56 PM

#

Yes, completely agree. It does give some unknown consequences to the macro economics though, especially for permanent league, as it might become easier to craft certain items.

compact isle Aug 2, 2017, 1:56 PM

#

crafting being the daunting thing that it is, I'm not sure if that's necessarily a bad thing

#

/personally

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 1:57 PM

#

Agree. I tried to craft a new ring. Spend a googolplex alteration orbs

#

gave up

compact isle Aug 2, 2017, 1:57 PM

#

there's something so satisfying about having so many alteration orbs

#

and then at the end they're all gone

#

and your item is still some shitty blue

#

😦

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 1:58 PM

#

Well, i'm a degenerate gambling addict, so I can't stay away

compact isle Aug 2, 2017, 1:59 PM

#

with the orb of anullment at least now you can search for cheap items people are trading that can be "unbricked"

#

just like when master-crafting first came out

#

😄

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 1:59 PM

#

Yeah, watch Brood Twine get many siblings over the coming months 😃

#

Well, all the best of luck with the launch. Hope you'll have 1st world scaling issues

#

(that's a good thing)

compact isle Aug 2, 2017, 2:01 PM

#

yeah it's gonna get crazy

#

I don't want to jinx it by saying we seem ready

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 2:02 PM

#

@compact isle do you know the approximate percentage that uses Steam vs Standalone client?

compact isle Aug 2, 2017, 2:03 PM

#

we try to keep that kind of information private

#

player numbers being an important business asset or something

#

I'd ask Chris if you want a real answer

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 2:03 PM

#

completely understand

#

i was looking at the steam login charts and just got curious, but again - one of the most crucial KPIs for a f2p game (in combination with conversion rate, retention/churn etc)

#

I dont think Chris would tell anyone external 😃

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 2:48 PM

#

oh a new orb? any info on what its droprate is like?

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 2:49 PM

#

@waxen musk there's multple new currency items introduced in Harbinger

ornate gale Aug 2, 2017, 2:49 PM

#

we'll need more emotes btw.

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 2:50 PM

#

hmm what happens if you un-craft an essence item back to blue, it seems to be possible with anullment

#

i mean what would its prefixes/suffixes be named

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 2:51 PM

#

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1927546 <- @waxen musk

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 2:51 PM

#

since the mods seem to have dummy names

mortal bone Aug 2, 2017, 2:51 PM

#

You can't craft down to blue

#

The item stats yellow

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 2:52 PM

#

you can if it only has one prefix/suffix after scour

mortal bone Aug 2, 2017, 2:52 PM

#

You can have a 0 stat item

#

That is yellow

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 2:52 PM

#

you need to do multimod trick if you want it to stay yellow

#

because "remove master mods" does not change rarity

#

but scour does

mortal bone Aug 2, 2017, 2:52 PM

#

Scour goes to white

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 2:53 PM

#

i tested it specifically, let me find a video

mortal bone Aug 2, 2017, 2:53 PM

#

Even after the meta mod it stays yellow

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 2:53 PM

#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSSTRGvgnZQ

mortal bone Aug 2, 2017, 2:54 PM

#

:marauderthinking:

#

Rip my knowledge

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 2:54 PM

#

well i kept asking this in chat and kept getting different answers so i had to test >.>

#

ppl made vagan swortds with no other mods by using multimod+one other master prefix before scouring

#

thats why i wanted to see what happens if you make a blue with only the essence mod, but it doesnt seem to be possible currently since it will always have other prefixes/suffixes

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 2:57 PM

#

what happens if you protect the essence modifier, and append another essence to the item?

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 2:58 PM

#

afaik it ignores meta mods?

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 2:59 PM

#

oh

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 2:59 PM

#

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1713551

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 2:59 PM

#

how unfortunate, that wouldve been fun

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 2:59 PM

#

Our solution is that Essences will ignore master metamods when rolling an item.

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 3:05 PM

#

Makes sense now that I've read it for sure

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 3:10 PM

#

perfect agony is a new passive?

mortal bone Aug 2, 2017, 3:12 PM

#

Yes

#

Patch notes are your friend

waxen musk Aug 2, 2017, 3:15 PM

#

ye ill definitely read them when i actually get to playing

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 3:20 PM

#

tfw when u delete the wrong file from your source repository, and didn't commit the changes you made first 😦

mortal bone Aug 2, 2017, 3:21 PM

#

Recycle bin?

#

Oh, I see nvm

#

That sucks

#

A lot...

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 3:22 PM

#

it was just ~20 lines or so

#

but still

#

oh wait, you're actually right!

#

visual studio deletes to recycle bin

#

yay 😃

mortal bone Aug 2, 2017, 3:22 PM

#

Aye

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 3:23 PM

#

15+ years of visual studio, and i did not think of it

#

thanks for that

#

i'll remember that one for sure

mortal bone Aug 2, 2017, 3:24 PM

#

Np

#

I thought you may have been working in something else

#

In which case, that would suck

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 3:25 PM

#

yeah, i starte with undoing it from the local git repository

#

i'm doing some changes to this internal ad tech system we made, and writing javascript code 🤢 , and found that VS Code had better support for ES 6+ stuff, until just recently

elder hearth Aug 2, 2017, 3:30 PM

#

I really hope those new orbs works with master mods like "prefixes cannot be changed" and you can randomly remove a suffix

simple ravine Aug 2, 2017, 3:43 PM

#

+1 indeed. I think so though...

#

Anyone tried CosmosDB's new graph capabilities? (azure's rebranding of DocumentDB)

#

Or tried to put the stash tabs into a graph database of some sort? I'm thinking it could be pretty interesting

solemn crypt Aug 2, 2017, 4:30 PM

#

@indigo shale check this https://github.com/Openarl/PathOfBuilding/issues/28#issuecomment-319701486

tight tinsel Aug 2, 2017, 4:39 PM

#

<@&174997233853399041> hey Emmitt, any estimated time for the PoESkillTree update?

desert roost Aug 2, 2017, 4:40 PM

#

You can ping Emmitt directly btw instead of pinging all the sub mods

pseudo ocean Aug 2, 2017, 4:40 PM

#

shamenun.com

mortal bone Aug 2, 2017, 4:40 PM

#

When the data is released

tight tinsel Aug 2, 2017, 4:40 PM

#

sorry, i'm still learning how to use discord 😦

#

thanks Emmitt 😃

mortal bone Aug 2, 2017, 4:41 PM

#

Yep

indigo shale Aug 2, 2017, 5:26 PM

#

@solemn crypt thanks for the info

pseudo ocean Aug 2, 2017, 10:02 PM

#

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/6r7kqs/-/dl2xio1/?context=1

#

\o/

mortal bone Aug 2, 2017, 10:17 PM

#

Mhm

compact isle Aug 2, 2017, 11:07 PM

#

just gave Bex the 3.0.0 passive skill tree data so it'll hopefully be out soon!

pseudo ocean Aug 2, 2017, 11:36 PM

#

😮

#

let's give some hype!

mortal bone Aug 2, 2017, 11:46 PM

#

:p

wind garden Aug 3, 2017, 1:13 AM

#

then all we have to do is channel our energy to openarl!

rugged night Aug 3, 2017, 1:41 AM

#

Any chance of having linked items in chat go into the logfile too? ...instead of _

#

This would help, so that we could write a chat tool that allows clickable links, translation, better ignore list, etc

#

(also, showing other actions like when friends log in/out, etc)

simple ravine Aug 3, 2017, 10:06 AM

#

^- @compact isle , do you know anything at all about that?

obtuse citrus Aug 3, 2017, 10:22 AM

#

novynn is webdev and not working onthe client afaik

fickle zodiac Aug 3, 2017, 11:04 AM

#

Does anyone know if theres an angular module that converts an item object (as provided from api) to a pretty item?

#

or just css for items 😃

waxen musk Aug 3, 2017, 2:55 PM

#

anyone has a list of unique icons? im trying to grab them from trade API but that doesnt seem like the best idea since im stuck at about 2/3rds >.>

elder hearth Aug 3, 2017, 3:08 PM

#

I downloaded it parsing Metadata and converted to URL

#

@waxen musk my images are like AgateAmuletUnique.png

waxen musk Aug 3, 2017, 3:09 PM

#

huh theyre in metadata?

elder hearth Aug 3, 2017, 3:09 PM

#

Amulet7Unique.png (Eye of Chayula)

waxen musk Aug 3, 2017, 3:09 PM

#

i mean there are metadata files but they dont seem very helpful since i still need to know which ID is which unique

elder hearth Aug 3, 2017, 3:18 PM

#

@waxen musk do you use any of this files?
BaseItemTypes ("Id" field) to relate to:
ItemVisualIdentity ("Id" field or "DDSFile" to build your URL)

waxen musk Aug 3, 2017, 3:19 PM

#

i dont know how to parse these 😦

#

also my ggpk is way outdated so it wont be of much use anyway

elder hearth Aug 3, 2017, 3:21 PM

#

i think it is fine

#

@waxen musk how do you identify your Drillneck unique for example? what properties/id or something you have?

waxen musk Aug 3, 2017, 3:21 PM

#

just the name, actually

#

well i have the stats but thats not very helpful

elder hearth Aug 3, 2017, 3:22 PM

#

where did you get the name?

waxen musk Aug 3, 2017, 3:22 PM

#

do they have standard id's?

#

from POB >.>

#

i parsed all the stats so now i just need icons

simple ravine Aug 3, 2017, 3:23 PM

#

tomorrow, you'll find them on the CDN

waxen musk Aug 3, 2017, 3:23 PM

#

guess im not in a hurry anyway, i could just use blank icons for ones im missing

elder hearth Aug 3, 2017, 3:23 PM

#

@simple ravine will it be possible to relate them by pure name only?

simple ravine Aug 3, 2017, 3:24 PM

#

I doubt it

elder hearth Aug 3, 2017, 3:24 PM

#

Riv only got name

#

😐

#

@simple ravine do you use ItemVisualIdentity to relate your icons?

simple ravine Aug 3, 2017, 3:25 PM

#

I do, indeed

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I take the filename and path, and grab it from the cdn

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replace .dds to .png etc

elder hearth Aug 3, 2017, 3:25 PM

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me too

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the only "problem" i had was Flasks

simple ravine Aug 3, 2017, 3:27 PM

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yeah, they have the sprite

waxen musk Aug 3, 2017, 3:27 PM

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oh you mean just grabbing the images? but you can get them from ggpk so whats the point 😦

elder hearth Aug 3, 2017, 3:28 PM

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i did not test exporting from ggpk and converting .dds to png, downloading from web was way easier

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anyway you would need to know the ID

waxen musk Aug 3, 2017, 3:29 PM

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well yeah the name -> path, or id -> path is the part im missing

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since the id's don't come up anywhere else i might as well just work with names

velvet fog Aug 3, 2017, 3:30 PM

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are you using PyPoe ?

woeful sphinx Aug 3, 2017, 3:31 PM

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@waxen musk they are in https://github.com/EmmittJ/PoESkillTree/releases/download/2.7.2/PoESkillTree-TheFallofOriath-2.7.2.zip under Data/Equipment/Assets

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doesn't work perfectly when going just from names though (e.g. the two-stone rings)

velvet fog Aug 3, 2017, 3:33 PM

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check specification, there is a ItemVisualIdentityKey point to ItemVisualIdentity.dat

simple ravine Aug 3, 2017, 3:34 PM

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@velvet fog yeah, he's wantng the uniques

velvet fog Aug 3, 2017, 3:35 PM

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I had my own Uniques table with FlavourKey and ItemVisualIdentityKey, most of these two names are the same

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you can check the Flavour to get Id and reference to ItemVisualIdenty Id, will get almost 90% of the Icon files

simple ravine Aug 3, 2017, 3:39 PM

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risky 😃

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there's no strict 1:1 relationship between item and flavour, or?

elder hearth Aug 3, 2017, 3:39 PM

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["UniqueQuiver3", 37992, ""Why waste such a fine arrow on just one man?" \r\n- Kiravi, Vaal Archer"]

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for drillneck

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UniqueQuiver3

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at VisualIdentity:

                "Id": "UniqueQuiver3",
                "DDSFile": "Art/2DItems/Quivers/Drillneck.dds",```

velvet fog Aug 3, 2017, 3:41 PM

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but, they may use UniqueQuiver3_ or UniqueQuiver3__ or UniqueQuiver3a in these two Id

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A manual mapping is needed

elder hearth Aug 3, 2017, 3:42 PM

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"UnknownUniqueInt": 37992
matches "Unknown0" column in FlavourText

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anyway, I don't thing he got the FlavourText too

velvet fog Aug 3, 2017, 3:48 PM

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Maybe we could do this in wiki

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Wiki is already using Mods Id for uniques

elder hearth Aug 3, 2017, 3:53 PM

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i thought downloading list of uniques from wiki was the easiest (via API)
but i don't know how, never tried it

velvet fog Aug 3, 2017, 3:54 PM

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https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Special:ApiSandbox#action=askargs&format=json&conditions=Has+rarity%3A%3AUnique&printouts=Has+name|Has+explicit+mod+ids&parameters=&formatversion=1

elder hearth Aug 3, 2017, 4:05 PM

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@waxen musk if you really need the icons, i would download from wiki, it uses full Unique name + inventory_icon.png

like Drillneck_inventory_icon.png

but i don't know how to get the direct link

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@velvet fog do you know how to do it?

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https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/File:Drillneck_inventory_icon.png
to
https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/media/pathofexile.gamepedia.com/2/2e/Drillneck_inventory_icon.png

waxen musk Aug 3, 2017, 4:07 PM

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hmm why are there 3 images for each flask, whats the middle one for?

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well that would be the wiki link

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ill just do it later with pypoe or something

elder hearth Aug 3, 2017, 4:09 PM

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@waxen musk it is some sprites shenanigans, i don't know too much about it

solemn crypt Aug 3, 2017, 5:17 PM

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@elder hearth well, you can get full image info (including direct link) via wiki api
like this for example https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Special:ApiSandbox#action=query&format=json&prop=imageinfo&titles=File%3ADrillneck_inventory_icon.png&formatversion=1&iiprop=timestamp|user|url

elder hearth Aug 3, 2017, 5:29 PM

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looks like it would work for Riv

wind garden Aug 3, 2017, 7:54 PM

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@timid hemlock does the dps number for dark pact skeletons take into account the chaining?

elder hearth Aug 3, 2017, 8:05 PM

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also, is it possible to set the number of Wither Stacks while you have your Effective DPS selected?

solemn crypt Aug 3, 2017, 8:13 PM

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@elder hearth yep http://i.imgur.com/4qEVooV.png

elder hearth Aug 3, 2017, 8:16 PM

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@solemn crypt so i set wither (totem) on my main skill, and then go to calcs and select my real DPS skill?

solemn crypt Aug 3, 2017, 8:19 PM

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well, yeah.. if you want to see dps on calcs tab.
or you can select wither as main skill on the left bar, set max stacks, then switch main skill to desired one. it will also work.

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whichever you need 😃

placid ermine Aug 3, 2017, 11:23 PM

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Does PoB have any plans with EHP?

idle zephyr Aug 3, 2017, 11:31 PM

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I heard this is where cool Emmitt lives

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and pete

mortal bone Aug 4, 2017, 12:01 AM

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Hmm? @idle zephyr

placid ermine Aug 4, 2017, 12:08 AM

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Heyo!

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I haven't done tool dev in a longgggg time. 2 years since I did anything serious work on studying PoE mechanics. Just open this file today. :x
http://i.imgur.com/p4Zp0aH.png

velvet fog Aug 4, 2017, 6:46 AM

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https://www.pathofexile.com/public/PoE-3.0.0-preseed.torrent torrent file ready

timid hemlock Aug 4, 2017, 7:03 AM

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@wind garden nope

obtuse citrus Aug 4, 2017, 7:15 AM

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torrents are always so slow 😭

chrome topaz Aug 4, 2017, 7:15 AM

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@compact isle I think you forgot to create Harbinger - Shops forum section

compact isle Aug 4, 2017, 7:19 AM

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they look there to me

chrome topaz Aug 4, 2017, 7:21 AM

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oh huh it's here now

velvet fog Aug 4, 2017, 7:23 AM

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400KB/s torrent download speed marauderthinking

chrome topaz Aug 4, 2017, 7:24 AM

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is vaal summon skeletons also renamed to vaal summon skeleton?

timid hemlock Aug 4, 2017, 7:27 AM

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it didn't get renamed in beta

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It does still summon multiple skeletons, so the plural is still appropriate 😃

obtuse citrus Aug 4, 2017, 7:28 AM

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Does summon skeleton no longer summon 2 at a time?

timid hemlock Aug 4, 2017, 7:28 AM

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Correct

chrome topaz Aug 4, 2017, 7:29 AM

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that's what patch notes say

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Summon Skeletons has been renamed Summon Skeleton, and has been reworked. Many of the passives and items that interact with it have been rebalanced. Summon Skeleton now has a base cast time of 0.5 seconds, and the cost has been reduced by approximately 60% at all levels. It now summons a single skeleton per cast and has a base limit of 5 summoned skeletons.

obtuse citrus Aug 4, 2017, 7:29 AM

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Aye

ornate gale Aug 4, 2017, 7:31 AM

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you can still spell echo if you want the old double-razzle marauder

simple ravine Aug 4, 2017, 8:52 AM

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📎 unknown.png

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hype!

elder hearth Aug 4, 2017, 9:02 AM

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hype!²

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it just finished here, seeding for people now (got a 60mb upload)

simple ravine Aug 4, 2017, 9:02 AM

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yeah same, until we move next later this month

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then it's back to 60/6 or something like that

elder hearth Aug 4, 2017, 9:03 AM

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i know that feel

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😦

simple ravine Aug 4, 2017, 9:04 AM

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when we signed the contract, the landlord was like "yeah, we're looking into fiber. we're looking at different proposals"

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so probably 2019

elder hearth Aug 4, 2017, 9:04 AM

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😐

velvet fog Aug 4, 2017, 9:04 AM

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Volkuur's Guidance have 3 varients

elder hearth Aug 4, 2017, 9:04 AM

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what is it in first place?

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that shield?

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(unique)?

ornate gale Aug 4, 2017, 9:05 AM

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lets take a moment for our fellow americans stuck with Comcast and paying $200/mo for 20/2

velvet fog Aug 4, 2017, 9:06 AM

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poedb is 3.0 release now

elder hearth Aug 4, 2017, 9:06 AM

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witchlove

simple ravine Aug 4, 2017, 9:06 AM

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cb or www?

ornate gale Aug 4, 2017, 9:06 AM

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exaltsurprised

velvet fog Aug 4, 2017, 9:06 AM

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cb

simple ravine Aug 4, 2017, 9:07 AM

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such fast ❤

elder hearth Aug 4, 2017, 9:08 AM

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so Dark Pact is 0-95% now?

simple ravine Aug 4, 2017, 9:10 AM

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Soul Tether is for people who like to defy gravity?

elder hearth Aug 4, 2017, 9:13 AM

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marauderthinking

ornate gale Aug 4, 2017, 9:24 AM

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it's for thanatonauts

simple ravine Aug 4, 2017, 9:29 AM

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for what?

ornate gale Aug 4, 2017, 9:31 AM

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it's from a french SF book

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people manage to do near death experiences on purpose, and manage to 'fly' behind the curtain of death

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but to come back they have to link themselves using their souls in a chain

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thus the soul tether

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thanatos being death in greek (?) and -nauts something like explorer, death explorers are called thanatonauts

simple ravine Aug 4, 2017, 9:34 AM

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http://poedb.tw/us/unique.php?n=Soul_Tether

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I am trying to figure out what the mechanic ideas around this one is

ornate gale Aug 4, 2017, 9:38 AM

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hmm.. guess supply some 'thin' ES above a build with a shitload of HP ?

elder hearth Aug 4, 2017, 10:07 AM

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It is some extra EHP, i think it is good for hybrid builds

timid hemlock Aug 4, 2017, 10:41 AM

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Whelp, Charged Dash in the patch data is completely shagged

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Damage Effectiveness missing for most of the levels, and the damage multiplier looks wrong too

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There goes my hope of the patch data being final :/

simple ravine Aug 4, 2017, 10:43 AM

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is that the portion of GGG that doesn't really fancy datamine tools? chaosthinking

timid hemlock Aug 4, 2017, 10:44 AM

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😛

simple ravine Aug 4, 2017, 10:44 AM

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they should have done it with some class, and embed Rick Roll youtube video link

timid hemlock Aug 4, 2017, 10:44 AM

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Well, it won't show up correctly in-game like this

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Since the in-game tooltip relies on these values

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On the plus side they finally fixed the conversion stats on all the skills

simple ravine Aug 4, 2017, 10:50 AM

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How does the new Storm Burst skill look like.. good or meh?

dim elk Aug 4, 2017, 11:47 AM

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are the new currencies available in the beta? im updating my loot filter now, need some info on rarities and stuff

hazy fog Aug 4, 2017, 11:55 AM

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they're not

dim elk Aug 4, 2017, 11:56 AM

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i wonder if neversink got insider info. he probably did tbh

hazy fog Aug 4, 2017, 11:56 AM

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didn't they post them all in the item filter thread

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https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1930848

Path of Exile

Forum - Announcements - 3.0.0 Item Filter and Passive Tree Information - Path of Exile

Path of Exile is a free online-only action RPG under development by Grinding Gear Games in New Zealand.

dim elk Aug 4, 2017, 11:56 AM

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i see the names and classes of each new base item, i dont see the rarities though

hazy fog Aug 4, 2017, 11:56 AM

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they never tell us rarities

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this is why silver coins were loud as fuck the first time they were added despite being very common

dim elk Aug 4, 2017, 11:57 AM

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cadiro coin explosions too ;/

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i guess ill just give them all the same sound and size and adjust an hour later

hazy fog Aug 4, 2017, 11:58 AM

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make the ones you like loud make the ones you don't quiet

dim elk Aug 4, 2017, 11:58 AM

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o rly

hazy fog Aug 4, 2017, 11:59 AM

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it's not like exalted shard or annulment could possibly be cheap

dim elk Aug 4, 2017, 12:04 PM

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also they added 2 new classes but didnt say what items are under them ;x

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Pieces and Pantheon Souls?

solemn crypt Aug 4, 2017, 12:23 PM

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well, i'd guess pieces goes for new hargringer forgable uniques

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and pantheon souls are vessels filled with souls of map bosses (which are needed to upgrade pantheon powers) https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/The_Pantheon

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looks like pantheon sould already described on wiki https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Pantheon_Soul

velvet fog Aug 4, 2017, 12:52 PM

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@dim elk http://cb.poedb.tw/us/item.php?cn=PantheonSoul
http://cb.poedb.tw/us/item.php?cn=UniqueFragment

wind garden Aug 4, 2017, 3:44 PM

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@timid hemlock is there anything still left to be done for calculating DP totem dps?

timid hemlock Aug 4, 2017, 3:44 PM

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Nope, it should be working fully now

hazy fog Aug 4, 2017, 3:53 PM

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mr arl why doesn't stormburst allow an all projectiles option

jade kayak Aug 4, 2017, 4:31 PM

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where's the pob issues reporting?

simple ravine Aug 4, 2017, 4:31 PM

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https://github.com/Openarl/PathOfBuilding/issues

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I'm guessing.

jade kayak Aug 4, 2017, 4:32 PM

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time to add mirror arrow issues :^)

simple ravine Aug 4, 2017, 4:33 PM

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search to see if there are similar issues before adding new ones

jade kayak Aug 4, 2017, 4:33 PM

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nothing comes up for mirror

hot hamlet Aug 4, 2017, 4:54 PM

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Is neversink updated to 3.0?

dark heron Aug 4, 2017, 4:54 PM

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not yet

hot hamlet Aug 4, 2017, 4:55 PM

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looks like he's trying to finish it now.Default filter feels bad

wind garden Aug 4, 2017, 5:09 PM

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does PoB know how to calculate tornado shot dps?

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I'm guessing it's basically impossible to calculate

dark heron Aug 4, 2017, 5:15 PM

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sigh. im kinda upset that GGG returns the "down for maintenance" page when their API goes down. my code is going fucking nuts right now..

solemn crypt Aug 4, 2017, 5:35 PM

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well, Novynn mentioned around a month ago that they're working on reducing/removing web-downtime during game deploy