The optimal path between nodes is NP Hard iirc
#tooldev-general
woeful sphinx
yep, and it gets magnitudes more difficult if you want to include attributes of nodes (not just pathing). but genetic algorithms, like @tribal cairn already implemented, work great on it.
tribal cairn
@wary quarry i'm using a genetic algorithm
no guarantees on the code, it is not yet even alpha 😃
i ended up using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisection_method to solve the fitness for "max physical damage that can kill you". that direct solution formula gets insane when you start considering mind over matter and other resists
wary quarry
😄
tribal cairn
bisection doesnt seem to affect performance too much
it solves for mind over matter with less than sufficient mana which is cool
jaunty briar
does anybody have a list of all possible modifiers?
obtuse citrus
pull them from Mods.dat
jaunty briar
ty
wind garden
man poe.trade takes ages to update
chrome topaz
it's backlogged again, not much I can do if I'm parsing items at 1500-2500 items/s and ggg's returning them at 500-1500 items/s
desert needle
their system is busy banning guilds atm.
chrome topaz
some reddit drama
wind garden
regarding the backlog, what I usually notice is that the websocket live update is up-to-date but the search results are much more delayed
i'm getting messages for items i sold 20-30min ago
wind garden
dude, i'm telling you
it's not GGG
i'm making a killing right now
maybe i'm wrong
either way though, i'm buying reliquary keys for 25c and immediately selling them for 40c
people just can't see the 25c keys for sale but i can
wind garden
odd, just messaged someone and got an autoreply saying, "Autoreply: Sorry, the item(s) you requested are currently either Sold Out or Not for Sale. (Ancient Reqliquary Key for 20 chaos)"
is that the trade script?
what creates that message?
it knew the price requested
dense thorn
mbe someone has a trade bot
chrome topaz
well it could be bad connectivity between me and ggg servers
wind garden
looks pretty close right now
maybe 30-60sec difference
what's huge though is the difference between your live searches and the normal search results
when i say huge i mean like 30min+
chrome topaz
hmm really? what server does it say at the bottom?
wind garden
search-5.poe.trade
both for live and non-live
k i just saw my item update
i'd say it's at about 5min delay right now
chrome topaz
it should be about 5 min delay between live and normal yes
normally much less (10-30s)
wind garden
was it really backlogged this afternoon really bad?
chrome topaz
uhh how many hours ago
wind garden
5
chrome topaz
anyway, the stash api's still backlogged
wind garden
i can see item updates from the stash api within 5-10 seconds
from when i put it in my stash and change zones and when it shows up on the river
i'm getting 1500 items/s from ggg
this afternoon i put a reliquary key up for sale and waited like 45min
chrome topaz
Pushed 48522106-51496852-48105180-55983207-52092619 : 2854 items; fetch took 2.75583791733 API rate 1035.6196865 items/s
Change id: 48522126-51496877-48105192-55983217-52092644
Pushed 48522126-51496877-48105192-55983217-52092644 : 4545 items; fetch took 6.72203111649 API rate 676.134924287 items/s
Change id: 48522147-51496904-48105208-55983239-52092667
Pushed 48522147-51496904-48105208-55983239-52092667 : 5504 items; fetch took 3.88217306137 API rate 1417.76265844 items/s
Change id: 48522178-51496942-48105249-55983272-52092691
Pushed 48522178-51496942-48105249-55983272-52092691 : 3402 items; fetch took 7.52609777451 API rate 452.027079893 items/s
Change id: 48522203-51496968-48105265-55983291-52092708
Pushed 48522203-51496968-48105265-55983291-52092708 : 5846 items; fetch took 21.2811717987 API rate 274.702918396 items/s
Change id: 48522250-51496990-48105290-55983332-52092745
Pushed 48522250-51496990-48105290-55983332-52092745 : 6269 items; fetch took 6.08370089531 API rate 1030.45828647 items/s
Change id: 48522278-51497033-48105331-55983375-52092792
Pushed 48522278-51497033-48105331-55983375-52092792 : 6263 items; fetch took 13.8179750443 API rate 453.250203445 items/s
Change id: 48522311-51497063-48105369-55983423-52092825
Pushed 48522311-51497063-48105369-55983423-52092825 : 5833 items; fetch took 4.59347295761 API rate 1269.84529001 items/s
Change id: 48522354-51497095-48105408-55983458-52092872
never saw it over live
chrome topaz
it's pretty bad
wind garden
lowest mine drops is like 900
i think GGG should just make the API private
and remove throttling
then we can do parallel
chrome topaz
i think it's just their hosting provider
chrome topaz
well or my hosting provider
chrome topaz
germany
wind garden
could explain the difference
chrome topaz
are you in the us as well?
wind garden
ya
52ms to pathofexile.com
looks like i made the front page of reddit lol
feather in my cap
chrome topaz
meh i don't like posts like these
you're just spreading FUD - because of intermittent issues like this people keep telling me that poe.trade is super slow and is 30mins late
then the issue gets fixed but peoples' minds don't
sure right now there's issue and I'll try to fix it or workaround, but the post says "you will never be first" which isn't true - when operating normally, the delay is really maybe 2-5 seconds from item appearing in the api to live search notifications
@wind garden ok i think it's caught up now so live searches should be "instant"
wind garden
thanks
ya I don't like the posts because it just leads to witchhunts and people crying for an AH
which is a dumb solution to a complex problem
in this particular instance, the delay made me a ton of currency
so i'm not complaining heh
chrome topaz
i want my cut
chrome topaz
it's not manipulation until i get paid
obtuse citrus
As if reddit cares 😄
chrome topaz
wow @obtuse citrus it's like you want all your items to miraculously disappear from index due to some unknown bug
obtuse citrus
😦
btw I think you should update the prefix/suffix things, + level of gems for the unset ring isn't handled yet
chrome topaz
is there a changelog?
obtuse citrus
there are some notes in the patch notes if that's what you mean
I believe the unset rings and the chaos mods are the only new ones that matter
the leaguestones technically have prefix/suffixes too but it doesn't really matter too much since you can't roll them and you can tell it from the name anyway
chrome topaz
okay, thanks
wind garden
The whole flaw in the reddit argument is the assumption that there's actually a problem. Underpriced items are always going to sell to somebody. So who cares who they sell to? That wouldn't change with an AH.
In fact, an AH would make it worse because it removes the option to choose not to sell an underpriced item.
obtuse citrus
not really because you can't put up items with the intention to NOT sell them anymore
you have to
but then again any market place usually needs some sort or regulations / restrictions to avoid being too abusable
dense thorn
the thing is you cannot enforce it.
Also I understand both sides. The whole point of being a merchant is buying at low and sellimg at high prices.
the problem is that there is no inflation in poe. That way prices can't continually rise.
wind garden
as it is now, if you put up an item for too low. You get spammed with a ton of messages and you have the option to say, "Gee, I should reprice this". If it were an AH, that item is just gone immediately, no takebacks.
hazy fog
and that's a good thing
chrome topaz
which part is a good thing
still cove
Hey @chrome topaz, did you chnage something on your backend side? I sometimes poll your live websocket API via a script but I'm currently getting zero count entries even though in browser it works fine
hazy fog
@chrome topaz no takebacks is a good thing. I'm all for a cutthroat market
wind garden
but that's the very thing people are complaining about. I think the reality is people don't actually know what they want. And they're too dumb to think beyond the buzword "Auction House"
chrome topaz
well reddit's not a single person, some people want it, some don't
crystal moon
I think the people who desire an auction house system the most are those that get aggravated by a bad trading experience. Whether that's from a dozen people being afk, scammers, price fixers, etc it doesn't really matter. An auction house wouldn't solve all those things, but generally speaking it would fix a lot. Don't get me wrong, I'm in favour of the way things are now, but there's definitely room for improvement. As for how to improve it, that's anyones guess.
timid fable
@chrome topaz mirrored items get quality added to them when "Normalize quality" is on. they should be treated like corrupted items
wind garden
@crystal moon there's more than one way to solve the problem. I try to distringuish between the people calling for an AH and people calling for in-game trade. I'd be must more in favor of a in-game shop based system where you can post items and people can buy them immediately but also have the ability to place offers on items and the seller can pick an offer they like and sell it at their leisure. Kinda like an AH with buyout but no time limit for when things sell and no cut taken for selling them.
and doing it that way GGG wouldn't have to stop providing the public API, poe.trade could still exist. It would just fix the issue of people trying to buy stuff from AFK people or price fixers
crystal moon
@wind garden Yeah, that's the feature most people want, that instant item delivery. They don't want to spam 20 people just to retrieve 1 orb, or 1 item. The problem however is that if GGG were to implement some kind of shop system, those people who afk right now would never add a buyout price. So they would always accept the highest offer all the time, making the buyout feature irrelevant.
wind garden
that's fine though, at least buyers could distinguish between the two
instead of just going down the row trying to buy until they find someone who's really wanting to sell
the best thing about how it is now is that it's open. anyone can write an indexer or develop a tool. The second they lock it down and bring it all in-game forces it underground. There will always be developers and programmers making tools. If it's not facilitated openly, it'll be done in more nefarious ways. That's exactly what happend in D3
crystal moon
Sadly, I think the in game shop is the only option that will work. It's the only way to enforce non-afk trading + instant item delivery. How it is now, you list your item in premium stash, then there should be some in game index displayed like a mtx tab, where you have the option to search/buy items. At that point when you click buy, it automatically retrieves the item from the sellers stash tab and dumps it in yours, like when you seal prophecies.
wind garden
i think it should be part of your hideout and you can section off that anyone can join, only having access to that area
they can go there and buy things while you're away or offline
but they have to go there
so it's more difficult for automation
i think there was a final fantasy game like that
crystal moon
Just make animate guardian into an npc, then make it so when you throw items at him he'll sell them for you lol
wind garden
lol
crystal moon
Regardless of what happens to trading, I think taking away the stash api would be a terrible decision. It does have a lot of uses outside of just trading.
wind garden
indeed
crystal moon
Another downfall of an item shop/auction house is that when you list an item, in most cases, it's gone. Which removes your ability to craft it, or improve it when you pickup currency.
However, they could implement a fee for unlisting an item. Which would deter price fixing.
IE: Unlisting an item before x duration would cost x currency/points.
Another benefit of a shop system would be GGG's ability to provide a reputation system. With the amount of statistics they track, all they would have to do is + reputation if item sold, or - reputation if a player has 1000 unsold items.
waxen ridge
minus-ing rep because shit doesn't sell is bad for capturing new players who genuinly might list items no one wants to buy
hell as an experienced player I still have shit no one buys
you'd need another mechanic
wind garden
it would need to be hidden to everyone but ggg, and would need to be resistant to manipulation
crystal moon
If your items don't sell, you're doing something wrong in my opinion. I have yet to find anything in Path of Exile that doesn't have some worth to some one. I'm sure something better could be devised though.
waxen ridge
Sure but giving it an offical negative rep is a sure fire way to put off newer players is what I'm saying.
crystal moon
Well as long as you couldn't achieve below 0 reputation it wouldn't be as detrimental.
waxen ridge
OK you're stuck on it lets move on.
crystal moon
I'm not stuck on it lol. I'm just willing to put in more consideration. Rather than dismissing something due to one pitfall.
waxen ridge
And I gave you consideration which you ignored lol.. .Moving on
crystal moon
wind garden
why not just a sale count?
that wouldn't be viewed as punishing if it were low, just shows they're new
which is understandable if you're a new player
kinda like your star rating on ebay
waxen ridge
but your star rating doesn't drop just because you didn't sell something does it
crystal moon
Yeah, essentially.
I just think there should be some kind of negative kickback if you list stuff that doesn't sell. Even if it did simply degrade your rating.
timid fable
gotta punish newbies, wraeclast harsh etc etc
crystal moon
Well I guess with instant buy power, it wouldn't be necessary.
The whole point was to help curb people from price fixing, but if they can't afk/ignore buyers, that solves the problem itself.
wind garden
you can't price fix if people can just buy the underpriced item
hazy fog
agreed
@chrome topaz I had an idea too. could you make something like /live/j5dfbjavfjagak+jasfkabsfbegkak+oghhklga so we could combine the results of multiple live searches into a single window?
still cove
Hey @chrome topaz , did you chnage something on your backend side? I sometimes poll your live websocket API via a script but I'm currently getting zero count entries even though it works in the browser
chrome topaz
yes i changed some stuff
still cove
Is it intended to cut off scripts polling from websocket?
I can understand if you did so - it'd be bad if bots could overload the system. With that said we are developing a tool that helps to make the use of your websokets in a more lightweight way - basically bypassing the browser, lot's of resources (e.g. images), subscribing to updates, etc. So in the end it will take a load off your API. After this week's drama the plan was to showcase it and make it available to the public but currently it's broken - I assume because of the recent changes. Could you give us some support regarding this issue? As I said I think it would be beneficial for you too as it'd ease the load on your site. I'm happy to explain more or give you access so you can verify that it's harmless.
pseudo ocean
Is the public stash api download speed limited?
chrome topaz
no it's not to specifically break scripts. i cannot provide support for them of course (and well i can't approve of them since poe.trade revenue comes from advertising and these scripts bypass ads while causing same level of load on the service)
still cove
I see, thanks for the answer. Do the ads change over tiem on the live page? I'm wondering if players idle'ing in live search windows bring you more revenue. If not then an official support for this kind of tool we're creating would not affect your revenue but lighten the load by 99% as far as generated content and traffic goes. But currently by support I only mean if you could give a hint about the current chnages. We'd be very glad to have a short chat about either topics if you're open to that.
torpid mesa
you would be better off just using ggg's api then
wind garden
@pseudo ocean yes, they're limited to 45 requests per minute
gilded herald
https://github.com/Exslims/MercuryTrade
Super happy they have opened thing up.
pulsar moat
Same. Most of the sketchiness cleared up now
desert roost
Oh right, I was supposed to look at the networking stuff
spice root
made an indexer that compare price with poe.ninja market value
i didnt like what the guy did with bash :p
pulsar moat
Yours is much more readable. I like it.
mortal bone
Personal indexers are not the way problems will be fixed.
This will just going to end up limiting resources for actual public indexers. GGG is just going to get pissed with so many people running these
chrome topaz
I wonder if you can get command injection with that bash indexer by abusing item note field
pulsar moat
ooh booy
velvet fog
GGG will sad at bandwidth and resource, GGG API download 5728.34 GB
chrome topaz
I think if everybody starts using it, they will just make this api private
wind garden
"When everybody's super....NOBODY'S super"
i'm not worried, because the people who know how to use the API already have. And everyone else doesn't know what to do with it. Even if they're given a working example
ebon oasis
i know how to use api and dont wanna dig through 5 TB of data
wind garden
right
i could post my code the reads the stash api. but you still have to do something with all that data
ebon oasis
exactly
i mentioned it here before, i wanted to make a page like poe.ninja(before it existed) cos i was missing that type of info, but i just don't have resources to handle it (not to mention some finer web making skills required)
acoustic sky
@chrome topaz hi, love your app, its like meeting a non famous movie star
wary quarry
yea ^^
ah @chrome topaz mind to share some numbers? how many visits/search are there? 😄 We need some Graphporn 😄
ripe cradle
is there away to get live a overview of a special char with level ?
ripe cradle
http://www.pathofexile.com/character-window/get-passive-skills?eqData=false&character=LostKey this give me false back
ripe cradle
mom i try it
dam but this not what i want i need somthing like http://api.pathofexile.com/ladders/Hardcore Legacy?offset=200&limit=1
and dont jump throw the ladder till i find the correct char i want
mortal bone
Lol
wind garden
looks like he's only sleeping sec
so probably gonna get throttled
also don't understand why he's using march 12 in the poe.ninja url
desert needle
Emmitt: This will just going to end up limiting resources for actual public indexers. GGG is just going to get pissed with so many people running these <-- I wonder how they would handle this, if it would encourage them to do something different or if they'd just say "nope sorry official indexers only"
I'm surprised no one has written simple browser based javascript to parse the stream, just go to a webpage and subscribe, bam. Next thing you know, hundreds of people on the stream heh.
During the original development of it I suggested at least having separate streams for different leagues at a minimum and filtering in some way should be allowed, the response was "we'll see" - now it just appears to be abandoned.
desert needle
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexiledev/comments/48tf4q/psa_make_sure_you_are_using_http_compression_with/ also, come on guys, I keep seeing these tools not using compression... get the word out, it's ridiculous to download gigs of text without compression
merry oracle
The lack of compression also makes me wonder just how much GGG pays for the bandwidth on the API
chrome topaz
you cannot write client side browser javascript because they don't allow cross domain requests
so you would have to proxy stuff through your server in which case well there's no benefit at all
also: if you are using compression make sure you use http and not https
wind garden
@desert needle i could just release the source for my app. Complete with easy to use GUI frontend, would probably shut the stash API down overnight though
desert needle
haha
wind garden
don't see how that would help though
it's not like GGG doesn't know there's a problem
desert needle
yeah, I mean, not to sound too bitter, but the lack of real support for that stuff is the reason I stopped trying to deal with it. I'm surprised they don't consider it a higher priority.
wind garden
ya
it looks like some people are already trying to force GGG's hand with tools like this
albeit badly
mortal bone
@chrome topaz you can get around cors pretty easily. You can just piggy back off the path of exile domain
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/989787/ < the MTX Finder does exactly that.
mortal bone
cors may still apply since the api is on a different host
chrome topaz
it's available on www as well
anyway basically you have users run js in context of pathofexile.com
chrome topaz
mortal bone
Whoops...
Cross-Origin Request Blocked: The Same Origin Policy disallows reading the remote resource at https://pathofexile.com/api/public-stash-tabs?id=0-0-0-0-0. (Reason: CORS header ‘Access-Control-Allow-Origin’ missing).
looks like it is blocked
jaunty briar
what are the options for 'league' property in 'items' object in the stash api besides standard and hardcore?
pseudo ocean
Legacy
Hardcore Legacy
SSF Legacy
SSF HC Legacy
jaunty briar
thank you
chrome topaz
isn't this exactly how I said? you have to specifically enable cors, and they don't want people to write client side clients to api so they don't
soon the api will explode and we will begin the randomly enforced ssf mode
timid fable
buy premium stash tab api access mtx for $9.99/mo
still cove
Hey guys, we just released this, let us know your thoughts
torpid mesa
XYZ will prob end up banning your tool. Access gggs API instead
mortal bone
@chrome topaz yep, but it is always good to double check these things.
still cove
@torpid mesa how do you imagine 'banning the tool' would go exactly? 😃
torpid mesa
Unless it perfectly matches a popular browser banning it is trivial
Idk if he bans client side tools but he has banned servers for polling before
still cove
@torpid mesa it's trivial to perfectly match browser behaviour
still cove
accessing the ggg api would only remove the most important part which is custom queries. that if we do not reinvent the weel and a create a new 100th indexer
torpid mesa
I'm not gunna have a huge argument about it but browsers send tooooons of data
Yeah it's not an easy changr
mortal bone
Either way it isn't ethical to use someone else's server power for your own gain
Nor should you produce a tool that does for the masses without asking first
still cove
@torpid mesa no need to get into a huge argument it's an http and websocket request nothing fancy about it
timid fable
he already asked and got a polite no
mortal bone
Ah, then there is a legal issue there
timid fable
being smug about it is not gonna help
timid fable
yeah, that was the polite part
still cove
that said as i made the point earlier it requires the same amount of interaction with the site therefore the ads
timid fable
you can choose to interpret it as you wish. just saying, don't be smug about how "trivial" it is to do something someone doesn't want you to do, on their property
still cove
no im just bothered by smart stuff like ' browsers send tooooons of data'
mortal bone
Why wouldn't you just add queries? You will likely need to anyway
It is pretty trivial
still cove
that won't happen overnight but yea it'd be better
torpid mesa
The point behind what I said was that if XYZ decides he doesn't like your tool you won't be able to just set the user agent to get away with it. You can do what ever you want but right now XYZ has its fate in his hands
coral halo
is XYZ a god?
mortal bone
Well, he is in this scenario
torpid mesa
When it comes to people sending http requests to his site, basically yes
timid fable
does God have the keys to your house, or do you?
mortal bone
He can literally shut down trade with a button
He likely won't since it is a cash cow
But the point still stands
still cove
@torpid mesa i dont want to insult you or anything but you don't seem to know too much about this issue
so just let me handle it if it comes to that 😃
torpid mesa
This is the smug we are talking about
still cove
ok, how do i say it better?
torpid mesa
Keep in mind the community might not support what ever you choose to do
mortal bone
@still cove you should look up a code of ethics. No reason to be an ass hat with someone else's server power
torpid mesa
And the best thing to say is nothing that implies you know more than someone when you disagree
Because disagreeing with someone doesn't mean you are correct
still cove
im not disagreeing actually
mortal bone
There are many laws you will be breaking by releasing this, and I hope he doesn't sue
still cove
im just pointing out that your 'trying to look smart' sentences are kind of meaningless
browsers send tooooons of data
yep
surely im a smug for knowing what im talking about
torpid mesa
If you think people giving you advice are just pretending to be smart you are going to have a hard time
mortal bone
You are distributing a tool that doesn't not have explicit permission to use the resources it is using.
still cove
so i guess everyone using live searc is disturbing the tool?
mortal bone
Huh?
still cove
and they need to ask for permission 1 by 1
timid fable
Ok, here's some advice. When someone tells you not to do something with their property, don't do it. If you do do it because you're clever, don't tell anyone about it, especially not publicly in the very place you were told not to do it. And if you do tell everyone about it, don't expect to be praised for being clever.
still cove
i know
mortal bone
GGG has given permission, for now, for people to use their service.
xyz has released a front end to his service
He has not given you permission to release another front end doing the same
torpid mesa
We are trying to be polite here. But clearly you have no clue what you are doing. You then are rude to people that are trying to help you. This prob wont matter in this case cause I doubt enough people will use the tool for XYZ to care but if you continue someone will shut down the work you do.
mortal bone
It is his service, and he can do as he wishes with it
To be blunt. I have no problem saying what you are doing is unethical.
This can cause problems in the future if you wish to be an actual developer for the community
still cove
well believe it or not this actually got released to help the community who seem to like it so far, i think this is better than keeping it a secret. if xyz says to me in person, hey delete this pls that would be different oc
im not so sure if he's really aginst this as you're saying but he's welcomed to say so
@torpid mesa please stop with the shutting down already 😄
mortal bone
xyz has stated that he cannot support this type of load on his servers
You should respect that
Maybe you missed that part in his message to you above
desert roost
I don't believe this discussion is going anywhere in particular since you seem pretty set to continue with development. As your program is both unethical and illegally hijacking someone else's resources, your thread on the reddit has been removed and any links to your tool will be removed on this Discord unless you change your position.
timid fable
I think calling it illegal is quite a stretch, fwiw.
I disagree with the asshole but it's not illegal.
mortal bone
using resources that you were explicitly told can't be supported is definitely in the illegal territory
still cove
i asked for support about some chnages he made and he said 'i cannot provide support for them'. i do interpret this differently.
as you the ad revenue i amde my point that this site requires as much use of poe.trade as if you were not using it
i think a healthy discussion could be made on this topic rather than this
throwing around illegal and thread bans
desert roost
This is not up for discussion, and this topic is now closed.
timid fable
Using resources that you are de facto allowed to use by public access to the site, with a different than intended tool, isn't illegal. What about using a command-line browser? A screen reader?
mortal bone
The problem is ads. You are bypassing ad revenue
timid fable
Don't mix up ethics and legality. or assholery
mortal bone
As a user this isn't a problem since we can filter that
Legally
A service which does the same thing is not
timid fable
A screen reader will not read ads either
still cove
and adblocket is also illegal
mortal bone
Users are allowed to filter content how they wish to filter it
The problems the tools that allow this
still cove
assholery. that's also nice. other than disagreeing with you and point out the simplicity of another fellow mod you're welcomed to tell me what did i do wrong
mortal bone
There's a large grey area here
timid fable
You already know my opinion from the start
still cove
so?
mortal bone
It may not be completely illegal, but if you get a lawyer here it definitely can be spun to be so
timid fable
And then you proved it by continuing to be a smug asshole, which is my right to think of you however I wish
A "read later" tool that strips images (including ads) and preserves only text. Is that illegal?
still cove
you do realize this is still about helping out the community
mortal bone
Anyway, I am done here. Have a good day guys
timid fable
I'm now defending your assholery as legal, btw.
timid fable
Some people are too quick to throw around "illegal"
still cove
so no it's not illegal afterall
anyway i can understand now when people are talking about powercreep mods
xyz isnt even here
timid fable
If he were here he could tell you not to be a dick too
timid fable
"hey bro don't do that" "ok i did that, i wonder if it's ok"
@desert roost if Together's tool is banned for being unethical for misusing resources, all the other new scripts, especially those that were released explicitly with the intention of causing high usage of the API and forcing GGG's reaction, should also be banned.
some of their authors have stated their intentions as such
torpid mesa
i only saw someone mention they want to flood the market with snipers
but i didnt read all of them
still cove
for the last fucking time you still visit the site the same way. if we could all warp our head around that let alone think about the usefullned of this tool maybe we could have a healthy discussion. i may eb stupid to hope that this is possible..
mortal bone
Alright, if you want to get technical you are breaking copyright laws
Your tool doesn't fall under fair use
still cove
serve me 😄
jokes aside
@chrome topaz my hearing is kind of bad lately, please tell me again if i should remove my tool from the public and i will do so
timid fable
@mortal bone I'm gonna need help understanding this too. Data (like a list of items with various attributes) can't be copyrighted; neither can a simple stream of said data be copyrighted; neither can the method to access said stream of data be copyrighted
The only thing passing through poe.trade that is definitely copyrighted is the artwork which belongs to GGG
still cove
correct me if im wrong but none of us is a lawyer and this is all just ramble
anyway i added this further disclaimer, hope that it satisfies some: "We've also talked with the dev of poe.trade about support for these kind of scripts. His understandable stance is that he will not support them as poe.trade revenue comes from ads on the site that we bypass while causing the same amount of load. We'd like to state that Poe::Sniper requires the same amount of interaction with poe.trade with the exception of idling on the live page. The load is also a lot less as we never query pictures and other resources, never subscribe to item updates, etc. With his support we would use less than 1% of current generated data and bandwidth."
i'd be really sad if the post would reamined banned based on random say-so
paging @desert roost or whoever i need to
desert roost
If xyz gives express permission, I don't see a problem with it. And while I laud your intent to make the trading field even, your methodology of using a service without consent from the creator is pretty undesirable. Work with other developers in the community and better the entire community, not just the users. Doing so will make for better tools in the future, hopefully.
still cove
i think it should be the other way around i.e. banning for explicit say so
desert roost
That's fine to think that and is well within your right, but again, seeing as you've already gotten a very quick response from community members and other developers noting that your tool is unethical, it's going to have to stay that way until xyz responds.
timid fable
would Emmitt like to retract his incorrect statements about copyright, fair use, and legality in general?
as mods you can disagree with things without using bullshit reasons to back up your opinion
desert roost
That should be more directed at me for stating that the program was illegal, and I concede that I may have jumped the gun a little early
timid fable
I provide more examples for @mortal bone. Printing. Many browsers provide print (to file or paper) without images (which may include ads) by default. Is the print service or physical printer an illegal tool for accessing websites?
still cove
unethical printing
timid fable
@woeful sphinx right, that doesn't make the tool illegal. our mod was quite technical about it: "Alright, if you want to get technical you are breaking copyright laws Your tool doesn't fall under fair use"
woeful sphinx
you want him to change his wording to "publishing your tool doesn't fall under fair use"? I don't think the exact wording is worth arguing over ...
timid fable
No, copyright has nothing to do with it. Data can't be copyrighted, access to a stream of data can't be copyrighted.
He's not providing original content but data
still cove
@desert roost 'better the entire community, not just the users' i don't see how something for the uers can be against the community. i'm sure xyz won't like the idea but it's not like it gets him out of business. if it does we could discuss whether it's good or bad for the community on the long term. for now this is good for the community and maybe a little bit bad for xyz's revenue. if you still decide to side with the latter i have a problem with that and i think the whole community should
woeful sphinx
@carbo I didn't see the tool, so I can't say anything about that
still cove
as for the api it is public and i dont see any problem with using it. who you side with in this case is another thing and it shows rather bias than an actual care for the community :/ if im not getting the whole picture then tell me but i dont like what i see right now
timid fable
@woeful sphinx My point is it's dangerous for a mod who doesn't understand (copyright) law to claim things are illegal and use that as a reason to shut things down
woeful sphinx
I don't think he was talking as a mod, just chiming in and providing arguments. but that's on him to answer, so I'll be out of here.
timid fable
His usage of "copyright" was as meaningful as disclaimers under YouTube videos that say "no copyright intended"
desert roost
I think it's somewhat safe to say that xyz's Live Search is created by him, yes?
And is his original work.
timid fable
The website design could be copyrighted. The presentation of data (if sufficiently creative/original) could be copyrighted. The method used to access/present data might fall under patent law.
still cove
@desert roost whatever you're getting at it's not your job to defend him or his work on some shady legal basis over the community who happened to like the tool as long as it was up
timid fable
In this case the presentation of data, returning a HTML list or JSON list or whatever it is. I doubt is sufficiently original
desert roost
carbo, are you a lawyer?
still cove
yep, he's mine tonight
timid fable
Definitely not, but I have an interest in copyright law as a (former) creative
desert roost
If so, then I'd actually like to learn a little more about IP and DMCA issues
Looking at the DMCA here, I see "Discoverable facts, like ideas, are not copyrightable. CDN Inc. v. Kapes, 197 F.3d 1256,
1259 (9th Cir. 1999). But compilations of facts are copyrightable even when the underlying
facts are not. Feist Publications, Inc. v. Rural Tel. Serv. Co., 499 U.S. 340, 344 (1991)."
timid fable
I'm also far removed from the US so 😃
desert roost
Also, "Subject matter created by and original to the author merits copyright protection. Items not
original to the author, i.e., not the product of his creativity, are facts and not copyrightable.”
CDN, 197 F.3d at 1259."
"The requirement of originality, a
prerequisite to any valid copyright, is “not particularly rigorous. Simply stated, original means
not copied, and exhibiting a minimal amount of creativity.” Key Publications, Inc. v.
Chinatown Today Publishing Enterprises, Inc., 945 F.2d 509, 512-13 (2d Cir. 1991) (citing 1
Melville B. Nimmer & David Nimmer, Nimmer on Copyright, § 2.01 (1991))."
timid fable
good info
xyz will have a hard time claiming copyright on a display of data that includes original artwork from GGG, used without an explicit license
desert roost
Possibly, unless GGG has given him that explicit license without our knowledge
torpid mesa
they may have released a license when they introduced the api
still cove
so then, is there an outcome where my post gets enabled w/o go-ahead from xyz and if not how do you justify that?
torpid mesa
i imagine it has a lot to do with not claiming youll subvert any technological means he uses to prevent you, not encouraging people to parse the output of services unless given permission and making an attempt to not interfere with any advertising or modification of content in general
timid fable
@still cove while I defend the legality of your tool. The subreddit is neither democratic nor guarantees your right to be heard. Ultimately they don't need a reason to do anything
torpid mesa
however i am not a subreddit moderator, so i am only speaking as a person
still cove
@timid fable yeah i get that. anyway, thanks for being objective about this even though you disagree with me. it saddens me how things go around here. best of luck with your dev stuff
ill take my assholeness to bed now. will check in here tomorrow if im not banned yet
wind garden
mortal bone
I would like to point out that I was not talking as a mod but as a developer. It is hard to distinguish that here. I had some other things that came up, and I had to leave. If it is necessary, we can take things to pm if something needs clarified, but I think a lot has been said and nothing has come of it.
wind garden
I think we all knew what you meant. Pretty sure Carbo was just trying to point out that it could be misunderstood, potentially.
mortal bone
Better to be clarify
timid fable
I thought I was pretty clear. I think you were flat out wrong in calling it illegal, and saying things like "There are many laws you will be breaking by releasing this, and I hope he doesn't sue" followed shortly by "It may not be completely illegal, but if you get a lawyer here it definitely can be spun to be so." and generally flipflopping from one potential issue to another to maintain that the tool was vaguely illegal for the sake of arguing against it.
Then you were "done here" and tapped out, but to save face now you "had to leave". It's okay though, he's banned from linking his tool here or on reddit which is the important thing right?
Anyway this isn't productive but better to clarify. I believe we're all done here 👍
mortal bone
Well, if you want to know I had dinner with the in-laws. We went to a nice little Mexican restaurant. I had a much better time with them then arguing with people over the internet
I also took no stance on his right to post his tool here.
Honest question, do you think we should be supporting unethical tools? Whether the tool is legal or not. As a developer, I can't stand to see people like this, so it may come out in my moderation (mind you, I have made no moderation actions in this situation).
timid fable
I'll answer that question when you admit it's not so clearly illegal based on your sue-happy, TV-based understanding of law
You can't address the main issue or admit you're wrong (or even acknowledge the possibility that you might not be right), you just have to change the subject constantly to appear to be ahead.
Of course I don't fucking think we should be supporting unethical tools. I spoke loudly against the tool in the first place.
mortal bone
I would say that I may have over stepped myself in the legality of the issue without proper research.
I would be willing to bet that there are cases similar to the arguments above, and I would need some time to look around and find them.
timid fable
Ok, that's as much as we'll get. Leave it. I just think you need to remember your orange name carries weight. Like you reserved judgement on the Mercury tools, which might very well have been malicious and extremely illegal, because in your words "I don't want to damn them without solid evidence"
You seem to have forgotten your own advice because this guy was disagreeable
timid fable
Unethical is not illegal
mortal bone
I would agree with that
We would both agree his tool is unethical? Or rather the mass production and the lack of care for someone else's property is unethical?
Excuse me, mass distribution of such a tool in place of mass production
timid fable
You already know my stance, obviously. You don't need me to say I agree with you again to have a happy ending.
mortal bone
No, but I want to conclude this
timid fable
It's concluded. You don't get a feel good ending where everyone nods in agreement and you can think to yourself "they agreed with me, I was right after all :)"
mortal bone
Taking legality out of the question, as we both have no basis for legal or not, we can say that this tool should not be promoted on reddit or discord?
We would both agree on that no matter legality?
I am not saying I was correct in saying it was illegal
timid fable
No, but you can't say you're incorrect. It's physically painful isn't it 😛
On reddit you can do whatever you want
mortal bone
I already said I didn't know whether I was right or wrong
timid fable
On here do you really think this channel in particular is promotional? Nobody reads this
gilded herald
what are you even talking about now.... You sound ridiculous. lol
Maybe move it to PM? Not exactly dev related anymore.
mortal bone
Carbo wants me to say I was wrong about the legality of an issue
timid fable
Please. You were wrong about saying it was illegal. You are now unclear on the legality; you were still wrong. I already said leave it, because you can't admit you were wrong and it's fine. Leave it.
mortal bone
I already said I was wrong in saying it was illegal.
gilded herald
im not sure legality matters 100%. xys's word is law on this. It's his service. You should get permission before making a new frontend for it. (If i am reading the prior log correctly). That is a statement i'm confident 99% of the other devs here would agree with.
mortal bone
I said I didn't have, and don't have, enough information to say whether it was legal or not
Twice now
timid fable
@gilded herald And I agree. In fact everyone who has spoken thus far except the tool's author agrees on that. Claiming it is illegal, "breaks many laws", without basis is different though
Well we're all very good at saying nothing with a lot of words. Let's leave it for the last time.
mortal bone
I am confused at what you want me to say here. I have already stated that I was wrong calling it illegal without full research into the issue
Is there a magic phrase you want me to say? Honestly, legality isn't really the issue I should have brought up. Ethics matters more here
timid fable
You're fine now. "I would say that I may have over stepped myself" was the most non-apologetic apology ever so I just wanted to hear you say "I was wrong" a few times.
mortal bone
Cool
wind garden
good grief, stop being so childish
timid fable
Sorry. I would say that I may have been childish.
jaunty briar
is there any decent way to get the latest next_change_id?
still cove
again, what we're doing is bypassing the infinite idle time on a live search page via a public api and nothing more. it is just as unetchical as pinning or bookmarking browser tabs. but everyone just keeps covering their eyes over this fact and yelling 'unethical' blindly. even if xyz says 'omg this qol feature will ruin poe.trade forever' the reasonable answer would be 'hey, did you actually look at what this tool does? maybe you're wrong, you should not dismiss it so quickly'. not to mention this sub should support what's good for the community and not what's good for 1 dev (and do the latter blindly w/o any consideration). but sadly this is within your rights but in that case do include 'xys's word is law' in the subreddit rules.
i can do tha same fucking thing with a browser extesion actually while the tabs are still open (and consuming the infintite amount of resources that they do). i assume that must be ok then? but there's practically no difference
void wolf
On here do you really think this channel in particular is promotional? Nobody reads this
idk but i read only announcements and tool-dev
sometimes it's kinda fun
mortal bone
@jaunty briar poe.ninja has their latest change id public
void wolf
like above
mortal bone
On the stats page I so believe.
jaunty briar
yeah I noticed that poe.ninja has the latest id but I would not like to rely on it
mortal bone
There isn't really anyway except to do it yourself then
The change id is unique to you
hollow oar
Hello everyone, I have a few questions about the poe api (api.pathofexile.com), is this the right chan to ask ? or should I ask the support directly ?
desert needle
never hurts to try in here, there's also /r/pathofexiledev which might have some relevant answers
hollow oar
first, since the resource is called "http://api.pathofexile.com/public-stash-tabs", why does it return some tabs that are not public ? what am i supposed to do with it ?
mortal bone
Iirc that means a public tab was marked private, and you should remove those items from your db
hollow oar
oh I see, so the request will actually return every tab that has been public at some point
seems reasonnable
What's the approximate size of every stash with every item ?
mortal bone
Depends on how you store them, but reading the river can be around 40+ gb a day in compressed text
I can't give you an answer as to the total size because I haven't pulled it all in
hollow oar
maybe i'll try, I have a 1Gb/s download throughput at home
the limiting factor will be the get requests 😮
jagged knot
is there a flameblast tool?
rustic epoch
which is the json key for the links of an item and how does it work?
wind garden
it's sockets i think
ya sockets
"sockets": [{
"group": 0,
"attr": "D"
}]
groups correspond to the link group
attr corresponds to color
D = dex, I = int, S = str
here's a 4socket/3link
"sockets": [{
"group": 0,
"attr": "I"
},
{
"group": 1,
"attr": "I"
},
{
"group": 1,
"attr": "S"
},
{
"group": 1,
"attr": "S"
}]
@rustic epoch
rustic epoch
nice! Thank you @wind garden
ebon oasis
that sounds, hm whats the right word
extremly hard to pull off ?
i'd be certainly curious to see it
mortal bone
It actually doesn't seem hard to pull off. The only problem is the actual price. With a game, you have a pretty solid metric: winning. Here you could train based on selling, but you don't know whether something sold or was just taken out of the stash
torpid mesa
you also dont know that it was sold for a good price
mortal bone
True
leaden pasture
you can know this by correctly indexing new stashes and correlating user id / missing items in stash
you'll have a good idea of the price it has been sold for... then, you extract the properties of the item that has been sold, group them together and tag it with a price... you feed that model overtime with new sold items
then you'll have avg price for properties. ez. ❤ big data
leaden pasture
could we assume an item is sold faster than it's removed ?
if yes, poisson distribution.
mortal bone
I'm not sure you could. You could just assume everything is sold, and you can hop big data will sort it self out
torpid mesa
you also are teaching it with random users. they are not exactly the best at pricing items
better off training it only on the top accounts in the league
leaden pasture
I agree..
mortal bone
Trade macro
Perfectly legal
@torpid mesa that is a solid idea. Top 1k accounts in every league
Easy info to get
hollow oar
hey @desert needle, i'm trying to get the exiletool_price_macro to work, but in the .ahk file, the league name section seems outdated. Is the tool abandonned ?
hollow oar
thank you !
vast haven
No worries
wind garden
ya exiletools shut down a while ago because pete couldn't maintain it anymore
wind garden
Novynn why don't you show on the user list?
compact isle
because I'm on invisible mode on Discord
otherwise I get messages from General Discussion about unique balance
:/
desert roost
Sneaky hobbitses
desert roost
If it gets unbearable, we can still disable people from pinging you if you'd like.
vast haven
I expect that it's often unbearable.
wind garden
what about people pinging you about trade changes?
compact isle
surprisingly no one has pinged me about that 😄
vast haven
Well, I have the answer to that and nothing you can say will make me less angry or ever think that anyone else could have an idea or that you guys are working tirelessly on making the game better.
That's my constructive criticism for the day, going to get out of tool-dev now unless someone has questions on tool dev stuff
brisk flax
So 'm starting to mess with the API, and if I understand what Novynn told me, each stash is the state of a stash at the time the API call is made, and I want to make sure I understand that completely
so here's my imaginary situation: there are 3 players, each with a single stash. At the time I make my very first API call, I get 1:[a,b,c], 2:[m], 3:[x]. I continue making API calls relatively frequently, close enough that I know in real time when 1 updates to 1:[a,b] and 2 updates to 2:[m,n]
But if I stop making calls for 24 hours, and in the meantime 3 adds x, then adds z 8 hours after that, when I resume making calls I'll get just a single stash for 3, right? And it will be 3:[x,y,z]?
If I wanted to know that 3 went from 3:[x] to 3:[x,y] to 3:[x,y,z] I'd need to have been making calls consistently enough to have detected those changes?
(not that I have a need for that, necessarily, I just want to check before I get cracking on my little project)
compact isle
yes that's correct @brisk flax
brisk flax
Okay, thanks! I had a little digital ocean droplet up for a bit this afternoon pulling stashes down, and it hit 2.2 gigs just storing the raw json in a few minutes, so I'm thinking about how I want to do this. Cutting down to just Legacy softcore (and obviously not recording private or empty stashes) will cut down on it a lot, but I want to look at how items were priced historically which I think means staying hooked up to the firehose and using item IDs rather than stash IDs as the primary key for whatever table I put together
(I'm also still amazed that I can pull down that much data from a public API, and assume this means New Zealand has secretly discovered cold fusion and just uses it for servers)
compact isle
well you're pulling from servers in the US 😄
item ids is smart, but you'll have to make sure to also store the stash ids for where they came from to track when they disappear
but you sound like you've got the idea of it
brisk flax
well, the root idea is to be able to produce a set of items with a target value of "cost in chaos orbs" and whatever features I can engineer to predict that value, so it's less about worrying when they disappear than just making sure that for each item, I know whatever I could know about it the last time it was seen
which is why I'm concerned about catching someone's shav's that gets put up at 1pm and is sold at 1:15pm
the actual tricky part, I think, is going to be handling items that are sold, then relisted by someone else - my first inclination is to treat them as separate items since I want to know what things are listed at. but that's further down the line anyway
compact isle
well if they get listed by someone else they'll have a different public id
so as far as you'll know they'll be a separate items
brisk flax
oh, that's interesting. another question since I'm on the topic - if I put up a rare ring, then take it out and reroll it with a chaos, does it have a different id when I put it back up? if I add a crafted mod, does it have a different id then?
compact isle
no it will have the same one
the public ID you guys get is a hash of the private item id, the private account id, and a salt
brisk flax
okay, so the public id is just an obfuscation of the private id? I can understand why you might not want to make it possible to determine who's flipping items at a profit
compact isle
so the only thing that changes a private item id is currency stacking (since one is destroyed) and unstacking (a new one is created)
yeah, that's the intention
to disallow tracking between players
brisk flax
and to hide the fact that each tabula rasa has, on average, 27.3 owners per league
compact isle
lol 😄
brisk flax
... so if I'm reading your words above correctly, item id doesn't change when it moves from a stash on character 1, account A to character 2, account A?
oh, because the stash is shared
what we get on the API is the last character logged into at the time the call was made
compact isle
as long as the item stays on an account, it will have the same ID. The only exception is a stackable item
brisk flax
sorry for all the dumb questions, I promise I'll try to make a useful tool out of it all
right, because my stack of 7 orbs and my stack of 3 orbs are different items
compact isle
haha nah it's fine, it is really confusing
yes, and when you put them together you get a stack of 10 orbs with the same ID as one of the ones you combined
brisk flax
and they're not, i hope to god, each arrays of orb IDs
compact isle
lol nope, it compacts them into a single item
brisk flax
right
compact isle
it logs the compactions though, so we can still track duping
brisk flax
imagine the possibilities though! if the stack id were a hash of the sorted component IDs! you'd only slow everyone's client to a crawl for a marginal gain in information!
compact isle
oh jeez 😄
it wouldn't surprise me to be honest, Jonathans #1 thing to improve from D2 is how easy it was to dupe
brisk flax
I like that that driving motivation is apparent in both the back end and the existence of mirror and eternals
it's just a nice design touch - "we get why people dupe, here's a way to do it that's made deliberately difficult"
while the easy way is made as close to impossible as can be
compact isle
it's a very cool design 😄
brisk flax
okay, gonna switch to my linux boot and figure out whether my droplet can handle even the raw json of all legacy stash updates
thanks so much for the answers, it's really appreciated
if you guys ever run into ecommerce fraud problems, lmk
(i am an actual ecom fraud manager with gaming experience, and happy to talk chargebacks, fraud prevention systems, etc)
compact isle
hah that's cool! Best of luck with your project
brisk flax
Okay, another question as I dig through the data: I'm using a random call from earlier today, but out of the however many items in however many public Legacy stashes, there are 292 quest items, which seems like a lot for people to have in their public stashes
EDIT: NEVER MIND I AM DUMB I'm thinking quest items are non-tradeable things like Book of Regret, Halitosis Glyph (i know it's not halitosis), etc. Am I missing something?
I could have answered my own question so easily: it's prophecies
oh, hm, and divination cards and leaguestones. boy, this must have been fun to implement
tulip gale
😄
frigid badge
any tips on keeping up with the head of the stash API river? i can catch up to the end pretty quick by trashing everything after the first 64 bytes of a request (just to get the next_change_id) but once i switch to full stash fetches it starts to drift quickly as full requests take 3000ms~. running the 64 byte fetch in parallel throwing the full request fetches onto threads works but really quickly hits the throttling limit
although just typing that question has given me an idea..
am i right in thinking the throttling is based on the beginning of your request, so starting a HTTP GET, and starting another 1000ms later while the first is still completing wouldn't hit throttling?
vast haven
I'd expect that it's per ip of the request or something? -- Guess I'm wrong, Emmitt has spoken
mortal bone
It should be based on the start of the request, but if the river is slow it doesn't really matter how fast you are getting change ids. You will still be behind
hollow oar
if i understand correctly, poe.trade has somewhere on a server a list of all items in all public stash tabs, and is constantly updating this list by reading the river ?
so, if i make the ultimate item searching tool (which would have to have some killer feature to get people to use it instead of poe.trade) and that people actually use my tool instead of poe.trade
i would basically control the information everyone has access to ?
vast haven
Yeah, essentially
hollow oar
ok. On a completely unrelated note, what would be a killer feature that poe.trade doesn't have ?
hollow oar
you mean being able to buy map in packs of some sort ?
lapis drift
a smart search by mods
hollow oar
the seller would need to dedicate a full stash tabs to this sell though
vast haven
I mean like, I'm selling 1400 shaped mesas right now and everyone asks how many I have
It'd be nice if they could see that I'm selling 1400
hollow oar
how does the currency searcher do to know that the seller has xxx chaos orb available then ?
vast haven
Public tab and they stack
This guy probably doesn't know what he's talking about though vv inbound knawleg
chrome topaz
well i'm not trying to trash talk anybody, but first he says "i would basically control the information everyone has access to ?" and then "get people to use it instead of poe.trade [...] On a completely unrelated note, what would be a killer feature that poe.trade doesn't have" SUSPICIOUS
hollow oar
^^ xyz you're the owner/maker of poe.trade ?
wind garden
Yes
hollow oar
what's the approximative size of the stash/item db ?
wind garden
Can someone tell me the enumerated definition for frame type?
Relic is type 9, what's type 8?
Nevermind
Found it on the wiki
mortal bone
TBH it will be hard to get anyone to use anything other than poe.trade
it has been ingrained in the community for years
and it works
hollow oar
don't worry, i just have to DDoS poe.trade precisely when i launch my tool
chrome topaz
screencapped and reported to the cops
torpid mesa
so do we think an auto hot key script that does a different thing each time you press it be legal? what if it had some timers that PREVENT it being pressed but still dont automate a button press out side of the one it sends [sometimes] when you press the key
vast haven
Ie 1111 = 1 2 3 4?
vast haven
I think I have an email saying that's not ok
torpid mesa
oic
mortal bone
Pretty sure that is considered automation
vast haven
Thanks for contacting us about this. Unfortunately this isn't something we allow, and can result in your account being banned. We do not allow any macro that performs more than one action, and this is considered as more than one action.
I hope this helps to clarify things, and if you have any further questions, feel free to let us know! Thank you for checking with us first.
I think it was a generic paste
But that's the response I got on a similar question
torpid mesa
hmmm
mortal bone
Yeah, I am pretty sure it is just classified under automation since you are making 1 key press cycle through 5
torpid mesa
might be yea
the qol it offers though would be sooo nice haha
i didnt want to share one though that could get people in trouble
mortal bone
Yeah, I have asked about some of that
vast haven
Mhmm, this was for 3 pushes doing - inventory open, mouse move to portal scroll (x,y), right click, close inventory
torpid mesa
hm
mortal bone
inventory isn't server side
vast haven
I tend to agree
vast haven
That's why I think it was just a generic copy/answer
Could just be that portal scroll click is considered more than one action, idk.
mortal bone
can't seem to find the email.
torpid mesa
also pushing 5 buttons in sequence seems a bit different than pushing a button that moves the mouse then clicks
but not nec different enough
to be allowed
mortal bone
Interacting with items is a server action
vast haven
I'm just writing wondering about a macro I had an idea for that might be two serverside actions so I wanted to be sure that it's allowed before I make it.
It would press I (open inventory) then right click in the location that I normally have my portal scrolls (using the portal), then on a second push close the inventory.
I'm wondering if this kind of macro would be allowed. It will not go through the portal or anything, just open it.
Thank you for your time,
That's the original email
vast haven
Right, it's tangential
It could be a similar issue because of the 2 actions on 1 button with 2 pushes
or it could have been a portal opening specific thing
It was also in 2015
torpid mesa
it might be your wording too
vast haven
Yeah
torpid mesa
i would assume from your email you push one button and it opens the inventory then moves the mouse then lcicks
with only one press total
mortal bone
It looks like opening a portal from inventory is considered too many actions
vast haven
Right - but if opening the inventory isn't a serverside..
mortal bone
Well, it is open, move, click, close. I think they would classify it as automation
vast haven
Actually if inventory interaction (open/close) isn't considered serverside then you could do all 3 in one serverside action
torpid mesa
this says no
torpid mesa
to my thing at least
vast haven
I mean, I'm fine with it and I just know where my portals are - so it's not a game-breaker to me and I don't feel the need to use that (nor did I bother writing it) script
but it seems incongruous
The distinction may just be that they view the open move click from the logout to be congruous to alt-f4
which would be fine too
mortal bone
I have found your reddit response to someone with the same question lol
vast haven
I do what I can
mortal bone
Yeah, I am not sure the difference between the two commands
torpid mesa
thanks guyz
mortal bone
sure
vast haven
It's something I'm curious about now but not over the threshold on
mortal bone
Yeah, it isn't something that matters too much. It also seems like their response to your question was almost 2 years ago now
vast haven
Mhmm, just about
wind garden
lol just encountered a legit bot
instantly puts 10 stacks of currency items in trade window
leavues group and says ty at the exact same time
velvet fog
Crystal Ore Map tags: cave, indoors_area, map, area_with_water
wind garden
@chrome topaz poe.trade has a huge delay on items getting listed in regular search again
chrome topaz
is it poe trade specific bug?
so you mean live search is okay? what's the delay, what search-X server?
wind garden
just checked my logs
looks like it's API lagging
can't keep up
it's gong as fast as it can and can only get every 2.5sec
i'm getting PMs for items i sold hours ago
chrome topaz
yes it's usually the api
brisk flax
this is a dumb question and I feel like the solution is within my grasp and I'm just not getting it, but some mods include apostrophes and it's messing up my storage of mods to table (via a python script and mysql insert)
because typically the script is correctly enclosing the entire json object in double-quotes, i.e. "['Adds 24 to some stat', 'Increases some other stat by 10%']"
but when there's an apostophe in the text within the brackets, per standards, the single quotes get turned into double quotes, like so: "["10% reduced Mana Cost of Skills if you've been Hit Recently"]"
the workaround I've landed on after puzzling this out is to take each set of mods and use regex to find any double-quote groups within the text, replace them with single-quote blocks (and eliminate the single-quotes within the captured group), but it feels hacky as hell
compact isle
why not use prepared statements to escape the text for you?
brisk flax
because i'm dumb and was being lazy about the inserts because the process was i/o limited, but that works
compact isle
hah 😄
brisk flax
I should be parameterizing them anyway in case GGG decides they want to delete my tool via sql injection with a new ring with the implicit mod 'Increases strength by 4"]; drop table items;'
pulsar moat
I wonder if any of the little api parser tools out there are vulnerable to that. Name your stash tabs with drop/delete statements, see how it goes?
brisk flax
I saw the same thing
wind garden
Same
compact isle
mysterious
wind garden
@compact isle do you know what's up with the stash api?
Hasn't been keeping up
It's better now but was real bad this afternoon
Was wondering if new players are overloading it
compact isle
there are quite a lot of people hitting it now
does this afternoon mean like 3 hours ago or something?
we had quite a bit of website load earlier today, that probably didn't help
pulsar moat
What order of magnitude is "quite a lot of people"?
compact isle
not too many, but more than we have normally
wind garden
poe.trade was like 2 hours behind
at one point
well, i was getting PMs for items i sold 2 hours earlier
but it was delayed by a solid 30min at least
i checked my logs and i was getting 4-5k items per pull and the fastest it could go was 2.5 seconds each get
so it wasn't even able to hit the throttle limit
chrome topaz
hah, I remember when I put an emoji into item note and this broke api for everybody
brisk flax
@chrome topaz i just spent like an hour forcing a mysql table to accept unicode against its wishes, so I believe this wholeheartedly
strong portal
it's atrocious really
brisk flax
is there a field in properties for an item that reflects its type and/or slot?
velvet fog
inventoryId for slot
lapis ermine
Yeah, but why not tho.
brisk flax
I honestly got frustrated trying to set postgres up in the first place
lapis ermine
Where did you run into issues? When I set it up for myself the first time it was pretty easy.
brisk flax
@lapis ermine I had a hard time getting the server to listen to external IPs - I'm going to give it another crack tonight because I'm not sure I can live without CTEs, but after hours of troubleshooting I gave up, installed mysql, and had it running in like five minutes
hollow oar
same as @lapis ermine, when i put up postgres for my JIRA database (o/), i was afraid it was gonna be hard because i kept reading how complicated things were, 10 minutes later it was all good and running
brisk flax
yeah, I'm chalking it up to just not being familiar with how it handles TCP/IP, but I'm going to puzzle it out
compact isle
hmm, just a heads up that we're having some known website issues at the moment
top men are investigating
vast haven
Am not..
velvet fog
Minion spreadsheet for 3.0.0 Incoming next week (twitter.com)
desert roost
Summoners, rejoice
velvet fog
they should post it every league
crystal hamlet
a few months ago i said i'd be doing a little loot filter preprocessor to write more compact filters, something like what SCSS does for CSS
i'm finally finishing the tool 😛
had to put the project on ice for a while because of irl things
i'll be done in a week or so with the initial version
^ initial features, might be adding more advanced stuff after that but that's the core of it
limpid helm
@crystal hamlet nice!
crystal hamlet
mixins and variables already work, arithmetics can currently only add stuff together, just need to fill it out for the other operations. then i need to flesh out the CLI options and that stuff
pulsar moat
I remember when you posted about this a few months ago. Nice work!
crystal hamlet
next on the roadmap are then importing additional files so you can split a filter up, and making the tool generate nice output with comments and all if desired
limpid helm
Is the only way to pull character info ( name, level, xp. etc) at the present time by hitting the ladder api? then parsing it for the json for char name "****"
mortal bone
I'm glad you stuck with the filter stuff :)
mortal bone
@limpid helm you can get a list of characters through the private api
limpid helm
I think I'm looking atthe wrong api
mortal bone
Need to be logged in
limpid helm
which one is that?
limpid helm
cool thank you 😃
mortal bone
Yep!
sly oracle
HURRAY SUMMONERS
velvet fog
List of Grandmaster http://poedb.tw/us/mon.php?c=Grandmaster
wind garden
lol this guy messaged me 3 times to buy an item. the first time he said "oops i don't have enough currency", then the 2nd time was "mistake" but by the third time I knew something was up
i told him, "dude you need to fix your bot..."
he's all, "hmm ya, the clipboard keeps screwing up"
compact isle
so how mad would people be at me if I changed attr=>'S' in the item json to color=>'R'
velvet fog
include forum and stash?
velvet fog
but the historical data need some time to migrate
depend on how they store the data
{
"D":2,
"I":1,
"allSockets":"IDD",
"socketCount":3,
"sortedLinkGroup":[
"ID",
"D"
],
"largestLinkGroup":2
}
ah, so people were using attributes
hmm, I might wait until we do bigger changes to the model then
velvet fog
Im using attributes on my indexer
S=>R, D=>G, I=>B, G=>W...you can't leave both with 'G'
compact isle
yeah I was going to change the key as well to "color" rather than leave it as "attr"
velvet fog
I will covert all color back to attr till next big changes
$sockets = ['R'=>'S', 'G'=>'D', 'B'=>'I', 'W'=>'G'];
$socket['attr'] = $sockets[$socket['color']];
yeah that would work. I haven't made the change yet I was just reminded of it today
velvet fog
more sniper program https://github.com/Tonexus/poe-scambot
brisk flax
(also if I'm just missing something super basic like my count distinct is malformed, lol)
... i think it's that last one, i'm dumb
brisk flax
so I fixed my query, and now running it there are 694,687 unique items by concatenating properties, name, ilvl, affixes, and 699,981 uniques item IDs, so a grand total of about 5,000 potential flips, which seems much more likely
stiff gulch
@velvet fog thanks for that parser link 😃
i was about to ask i there was something like that around and it being python is perfect:)
any idea how cpu hungry that thing is ?
i.e. are we talking - runs fine on atom or requires a 4ghz quadcore
pseudo ocean
imo, in theory it should run fine on a atom 2-3 core with 60-80% cpu usage
as long as the flash drive / ssd is good enough
since it needs to parse data
pseudo ocean
🤔
narrow verge
Hi, guys. Is there any way to get FULL trading statistics? Like an average price for item SINCE LEAGUE START or amount of trades for specific item?
Or, at least a way to monitor such things in real-time or smth. To gather it by myself, for, let's say, a week.
fickle yew
You can only see items listed, not whether or not something was traded. You can keep track of items and see when they disappear. But you don't know if they were just unlisted or actually sold.
pseudo ocean
closest would be poe.ninja
narrow verge
TY... That won't actually help much in my case, I thinl. I was thinking of estimating relative droprates between non-vendor-trash items. Like how much shavronnes are farmed per week on average, comparing to vinktars. Well. that won't any close to real droprates, still.
*that won't be
fickle yew
I do store the data for all the price tracking I'm doing on poe.ninja. But it's not exposed anywhere.
narrow verge
@fickle yew I'm afraid this data can't be used in my case. The goal is to estimate droprates. Taking in account only actual trades will already affect the result (not everything droppped is traded). Trying to calculate this, based solely on appearance/disappearance of the item in the list will distort the result even more, since, as you said, we can't know if they were just unlisted or actually sold (or even sniped for lower price and straight away listed again for bigger price).
Well, that's above the fact, that I'm already not taking in account the fact, that there are location-specific drops.
fickle yew
Right. As far as I understand, if an item changes player and is listed again, it gets a new id. So you can't even track a single item. A flip would give 2 item ids.
brisk flax
I'm running a script that predicts what part of the note is supposed to be the currency, and then attempts to map that part to a currency (because people use exa, exalted, exalt, and exalts all to mean exalted orb)
and it's a pita, but at least I'll be done with it. just making me appreciate the work @chrome topaz must have done at some point making it so searches could be ordered by value
desert needle
fyi xyz makes the basics for those available
also if it helps, this is out of date but at the time I wrote it included almost every user spelled variation I'd seen: https://github.com/trackpete/exiletools-indexer/blob/master/bin/subs/sub.currencyNames.pl
http://poe.trade/html/tags.html from xyz
qwerty - there's no way to effectively predict/monitor drop rate. The closest you can get is quantity listed for trade, as you indicated, and that is not at all reflective of drop rate. A few years ago I did some analysis and stuff like extremely popular but relatively rare uniques appeared in trade at similar rates to unpopular but common uniques, etc.
You just see stuff like 80% turnover on the popular uniques vs <40% on the unpopular ones, where the latter might even just be people pulling them out to vendor them.
brisk flax
@desert needle hahaha oh man. okay next time I consider writing a script to scrape data from hundreds of thousands of items, I'm going to ask the channel if anybody's written it down already
desert needle
there's some other stuff in that indexer that might give you some ideas too, if you can read through the perl. Tips on parsing some of the item data that is super confusing (like the # of the elemental damage type that renders the color which indicates which type of element it is, etc.)
or search the closed issues, I tried to document it pretty well, the vast majority of it is still applicable
another random one that gets some of us americans is other countries often use commas instead of decimals, so you might have to parse 1,5 ex
brisk flax
ohhh, yeah, I didn't even think of that
the one thing I've been trying to figure out how I'll tackle is item slot - I can use properties and a short list of typeLine mappings to differentiate jewels from maps from accessories (rings/amulets/belts) from weapons from armour
but the best I can tell for telling what weapons are 1H axes, 2H swords, etc is just mapping every single typeLine to a metatype, and same thing for boots vs body armour vs helm
desert needle
yep, I had to do that as well
you have to do it by the name too, which is extra annoying, i.e. https://github.com/trackpete/exiletools-indexer/blob/master/bin/subs/sub.itemBaseTypes.pl
though at least with weapons there is a property that also gives you some information
frigid badge
@desert needle @brisk flax parsing the Icon URL property actually lets you identify most types, and the rest can be done by frametype or parsing typeline - http://pastebin.com/8NmQcc6s
pretty silly that a URL is the best source of that information but it works
brisk flax
@frigid badge well, that works at least! thanks!
desert needle
ah, back in the day there were a LOT of items with f'd up icon url's
they must've gone through and cleaned those up
frigid badge
yeah i get 0 unknown item categories using that method so it definitely works these days 😃
chrome topaz
flasks are pretty bad
the URL format is fucked up. and there's different URLs for items posted on forums and via api
brisk flax
lucky for me i'm only messing with rare items for now, so i don't have to worry about it until 3.0 patch notes included "fixed bug where flasks could not roll certain rarities"
brisk flax
the average rare vaal regalia (excluding listings > 1000 chaos in value) is 73 chaos
(that is, the average among ones that are listed in public stashes with a price in the note. I need to go back and incorporate all the items that are priced by stash)
brisk flax
I probably put the line too low, but it was a first guess at "this will exclude mostly patently incorrect prices" - for example, the single highest-value rare item in the index was a simple robe, priced at ~8 billion chaos
brisk flax
yeah, my worry is that if I put the line, say, an order of magnitude higher, I'm going to be getting the handful of genuinely valuable +% ES +flat ES +100% rarity +a pony items and a lot of people just typing a big number and polluting the data
I'll play with it and review the results to see if it's mostly right prices
oh come on, mysql doesn't have the inherent ability to calculate medians/percentiles. whoever criticized me for settling for mysql when i had trouble getting postgres to accept remote queries: YOU WERE RIGHT
brisk flax
Grats on causing a crisis, xyz
velvet fog
xyz is official trade improvements
chrome topaz
what now?
mortal bone
The public api was mentioned as some what of a crisis situation in the last dev q and a
I think people relate you with changes to the trade system
chrome topaz
cool, they should give me some exclusive mtx or something
pulsar moat
cadiro full character MTX?
chrome topaz
big fat arrow which points to my char and says this guy has RUINED the game
mortal bone
If only you could implement some kind of auction house system
Then you would have another big ass arrow pointed at you
desert needle
it should flicker between an arrow that says "savior of the game" and "ruined the game" randomly depending on who sees it.
some sort of internal salt level tracker
The existing community tools (combined with our public stash tab API) already put us pretty far down this spectrum, compared to the old days of trade chat. We already view this as a crisis. That is why we are hesitant to add more convenience features. wow.
guess that explains why they don't update/improve the API though, maybe it being glitchy and slow is a "feature" to combat this
vast haven
Tedious by design - we mean to lose the api once in a while to increase the difficulty in gearing for endgame
I fully support a cloud, maybe arctic armour effect for xyz to have with 'game-killer' above him btw
chrome topaz
a toxic cloud
vast haven
mtx name: poe.xyz
98/100 times you try to equip it, it sends you an autoreply, afk message, or dnd message
brisk flax
Maybe a unique that vendors for 1ex, except then Greust says "sry, just trying to get the price up"
hybrid stirrup
Poe.ninja works on iPhones... can confirm
fickle yew
Okay. So guessing it's only Safari maybe? I don't know what's not working
Looks like there's plenty of Safari users tho.
2500 unique users the last 30 days
crystal moon
@fickle yew this is using a browser which utilizes Webkit to render pages. Obviously there could be issues on the browser side, I know it uses an older webkkit library which would explain any problems with html5 compatability. But this just looks like some table/div organization rendering problems.
fickle yew
Is it on Windows?
crystal moon
Yeah
The only sites I've seen so far that render incorrectly is poe.ninja and a slight rendering issue on facebook regarding the built-in search bar. Not to say that it's only your site, just that I haven't sampled many sites.
fickle yew
Which browser is it?
WebKit on Windows is ancient.. :-)
Didn't they stop releasing Safari on Windows in 2012?
crystal moon
Possibly, but it's included in this private project as an embedded browser.
fickle yew
I had to convert some automated ui tests at work to Chrome because PhantomJS was using WebKit and it was hopeless on Windows. ..
crystal moon
Hm, if I could narrow down the problem that could be useful, but the browser integrates with Wolfram Alpha so it's nbd.
desert needle
can you guys see the #ggg-tracker channel now?
vast haven
Yessir
desert needle
oh, cool, wasn't sure if the perms were right
vast haven
Yeah it's working, thought about answering there but figured I should leave it for the bot
desert needle
in theory anytime gggtracker.com notices a new ggg post, my bot will then post a snippet to that channel
super simple program, I tried writing it in node at first but kept running into problems with discord modules, so I threw it up in perl since I can do that in my sleep: https://github.com/trackpete/gggtracker-to-discord
crystal moon
That's pretty nifty :)
On a side note could you guys run this browser test and post your results? https://web.basemark.com/
It nearly caused Firefox to freeze my entire system.
vast haven
I feel like with that intro I don't want to try it
mortal bone
@crystal moon worked fine on firefox for me: https://web.basemark.com/result/?4EODt8Pb
mortal bone
oh god my browser is shit
open moat
stats actually look similar. maybe the webgl stuffs brought the points down a ton?
mortal bone
Ah, looks like it yeah
open moat
thats multithreaded (e10s) FF, not sure if the release version is there yet
crystal moon
@mortal bone funny, I have FF 52.0.1 on Win7 and I scored a 58% 😂
I only found out my score after I pressed ctrl+alt+f4, opened task manager, closed firefox, then re-opened it.
mortal bone
I'm not sure why it crashes your browser
crystal moon
It exceeds the 32bit memory allocation. I have 16gbs of ram, but I run firefox 32bit.
crystal moon
Lol, I run a 64 bit OS, if anything 32bit requires more than 4gbs it can see it's way off of my system.
paper heath
hey how does poe.trade pick up people selling currency with the api?
my currency tab is public but it shows no api for me
crystal moon
poe.trade generally takes a minute or two to display your tab.
If it's been a while and still no results, chances are the api is backlogged.
vast haven
I don't think you're using api right either
You're not really getting your point/question across
wind garden
@crystal moon it's not a webkit problem, it's ReactJS
you may need to add a plugin to support ReactJS, i had the same problem earlier in development of my app
crystal moon
Eh, If I have to implement an additional library for Javascript to function properly on a website that's a deal breaker for me. I simply don't support websites that make heavy use of javascript. #BoycottJS
/edit - If Facebook works minus a small rendering bug regarding its search bar, the Webkit JavaScriptCore will work for me.
/edit 2 - Honestly, if I did choose a library, it would be Rhino.
brisk flax
how does poe.trade decide the price on an item when the item note and stash name disagree (e.g., item note is "~b/o 1 chaos" and stash is named "~price 2 chaos")
crystal moon
I can't speak about how poe.trade manages that problem @brisk flax , but I imagine it would use the item note.
Tab names are more of a set and forget type of thing.
chrome topaz
item note takes priority
brisk flax
Thanks
sly oracle
@chrome topaz hey man. Thanks for your hard work with poe.trade. I don't think ppl give you enough credit.
crystal moon
tfw a java browser runs with 1/3 of the memory consuption of firefox, and like 1/5 the memory of chrome.
crystal moon
Anyone familiar with LoboEvolution?
chrome topaz
thanks
mortal bone
@chrome topaz have you thought of adding an option to only return listings by a unique seller?
Say I have 5 items and you have 2, with this option the results would show that we just have 1
vapid flame
@chrome topaz hey, how hard would it be to make it so we can register accounts on your site (doesn't have to be associated with our path accounts necessarily) and then be able to set a blacklist + other site settings (always have "online only" and "buyout only" on when i open the page)
hollow oar
and then we can upvote or downvote users, if they're afk or something
and then we get eBay, but for PoE
crystal moon
Bad enough poe.trade has like 5tb of data, what's the worse could happen by adding 5000 unique user profiles to the database + db calls. tbh seems like something someone else should implement, rather than overloading the front end.
brisk flax
the data I'm getting on items just seems absurd and I'm not sure if that's because the data is faulty or I'm unrealistic about prices - rare jewels have a median price of 5c, a mean price of 12.5, and a standard deviation of 30.3
those values all seem really high to me for "rare jewel worth selling"
hollow oar
@brisk flax that's because they are a lot of crap at 1alch, and a lot of increadibly high price jewels
brisk flax
every time i start thinking about potential improvements to poe.trade i just think "there should be an auction house with puts and calls"
I started to think about how to deal with items that are properly sold in multiples (blessing of the goddess, for example), and then about an interface for buying multiple items and calculating average purchase price
and then... auction house
crystal moon
Only way to improve trade without auction house is to expose more api for community developers like xyz, or developers automate clients to provide an end to end trade process lol.
brisk flax
@hollow oar for jewels there are 5,000 <= .5 chaos (so all the alch jewels), then between there and 1c there are 37k, between there and 2 there are 29k, between 2 and 4 40k, between 4 and 8 54k
crystal moon
I almost went as far as hooking into soundcard apis so that I could determine what items were dropping according to my item filter.. Would be cool if there was a file that the client logged what items dropped, what items transferred inventories, etc. An then a public api for that stuff, because why not, community developers could then identify botters and report them 😄
brisk flax
so it seems like the bulk really does rest around 5c, but yeah the mean is up there because the falloff is slow
hollow oar
interesting data !
community identified boters
that would be so cool
like bitcoin farming, but to serve the community
crystal moon
microtransaction point farming :3