Community Species Suggestions

[buoyant zenith]

Would you guys want sea snakes?

[shell sonnet]

Those are mini animals at best

[left spear]

Nuh uh

[shell sonnet]

I don't think there are any notable ones

[left spear]

Palaeophis and pterosphenus

[left spear]

Bruh

[buoyant zenith]

I would love a Burgess shale mini exhibit.

Like a tide pool type of thing.

[left spear]

Bro said the giant sea snake isn't notable

[slim flare]

One species of Palaeophis was at least 8 m long

[frosty heron]

maybe paleophis, its cool, but practicality may be an issue? free moving snakes are Not Fun™️ to animate afaik

[shell sonnet]

The first one is based on a single vertebrate and the other isn't much better

[left spear]

We have more complete species

[shell sonnet]

Yeah, that are much smaller

[plush nacelle]

This snake was different

[left spear]

Use the medium sized one (which can still be a regular aquatic) and give It the Big alt

[plush nacelle]

Moving unlike any other snake

[buoyant zenith]

This artist is one of my faves.

[slim flare]

He is fun

[polar tinsel]

Snakes not necessarily, but wouldn't mind something like Tanystropheus to fill that serpentine aquatic niche

[slim flare]

No it’s based on multiple vertebrae

[plush nacelle]

I recall it moving in same fashion as mosasaurs do

[left spear]

Doesn't really fill it

[shell sonnet]

All isolated

[fresh ember]

Pardon my nonsense, but weren't you already scolded once for policing species suggestions?

[slim flare]

Yes

[polar tinsel]

If you squint real hard tho

[buoyant zenith]

Y'all, please be civil.

[left spear]

I mean ig but at that point so do plesiosaurs

[buoyant zenith]

We all want different species, it's ok to want one and not the other.

[buoyant zenith]

I need plesios with my whole chest.

[left spear]

It's kidna like saying Utahraptor fills Kelenken's niche

[left spear]

Don't we all

[buoyant zenith]

And you bet your ass I am naming one Nessie.

[polar tinsel]

Hmm, maybe not due to popularity of both, but lowkey...

[frosty heron]

this piece being posted made me think of his praepusa art so what do we think of prehistoric pinnipedimorphs

[fresh ember]

Probably goes without saying, but I wouldn't mind snakes in any capacity, it's just a matter of how they'd be animated.

[late swallow]

This is civil

[fresh ember]

Though I wonder how sea snakes would be animated to begin with.

[polar tinsel]

I remember modders in ZT2 pulling of pretty convincing snake animations, I wouldn't mind something in that lane

[buoyant zenith]

I mean, if there are regular snakes like Titanoboa animated to go swimming, maybe they can tweak a rig from there?

[frosty heron]

the discussion for land snakes leans vivariums as far as I've seen

[late swallow]

Snakes are hard as hell to deal with

[shell sonnet]

That depends on a lot of things; the current semi aquatics aren't deep enough

[left spear]

I mean unless you want the devs to spend 10 months on snakes alone they have to be vivs

Save marines ones

[late swallow]

I won't lose sleep if we don't get dnakes

[left spear]

Eh i mean

[late swallow]

Cool as fuck if we do, but no skin off my back if we dont

[left spear]

Would be weird if we didn't get a single viv snake

[buoyant zenith]

Yeah. That's why I was just asking if there are any species people are interested in.

[late swallow]

It wouldnt

[hollow flower]

A marine snake is alot easier to make than a land one I imagine

[plush nacelle]

Even in viv it would take 10 months of time to animate it moving

[left spear]

Not necesarely

They can be quite stationary

[buoyant zenith]

What is the main concern in the rig then?

[late swallow]

Snakes and glass lizards have such bizarre locomotive needs

[buoyant zenith]

Is it due to curvature?

[frosty heron]

Id be fine with a viv snake that just sits in water 99% of the time

thats basically what anacondas do in zoos

[left spear]

In Titanoboas case It would be easier to make since It would be swimmimg 95% of the time

[fresh ember]

Snakes are generally a pain in the ass to animate for games, period.

[polar tinsel]

Are our largest vivariums big enough for titanoboas?

[buoyant zenith]

Could you not take the tail rigs from the dinos and extend from there?

[shell sonnet]

Yes

[left spear]

Honestly if we get freshwater aquatics separate from marines ones i wouldn't mind aquatic titanoboa

[late swallow]

It's that other amount of time that you need to worry about

We're not getting Titaniboa as a viv

Orum Diem

[frosty heron]

~~just make titanoboa a statue ~~

[slim flare]

What does that mean?

[hollow flower]

Im staying on the titanoboa cope

[shell sonnet]

There's taking into account all the extra details such as the props being added that the would need to been taken into account

[frosty heron]

ight i gtg and sleep chat, enjoy the snake chat

[left spear]

We get one of those every 2 weeks i doubt you'll miss anything important

[fresh ember]

Typically, you have two options; First is a standard slithering animation like you would see in say, ARK, but that becomes a problem because of varying terrain which makes it look ridiculous. Second is a form of movement via a system called splines, which can be seen in Residen Evil's Yawn boss, IIRC. Spines are actually used ingame for fence and path placement, but I imagine it'd be more work when applying it for animation.

A basic rundown, but hopefully that helps clear things up.

[slim flare]

Gears of War serapede

[buoyant zenith]

Anyways, thanks for the discussion guys.

[hollow flower]

Does this go into the spline category?

[fresh ember]

Seems like it, at first glance.

[hollow flower]

The head of it is the only physical part of it, the rest goes all over the place

Usually its not odd due to it being in the sea normally but Ive put it in a sea world exhibit

[steep carbon]

What does bob do? With its paleopis?

[hollow flower]

This is very interesting in terms of video game tech

[buoyant zenith]

Well, if the devs are up to the task, then great. If not, still support them on that.

[hollow flower]

Fair enough

[fresh ember]

Keep in mind, it's been a long while since I've read up on this system and am currently refreshing my memory on the subject a bit, myself.

I found a tutorial that'll explain it better than I can, but basically, it involves having the bones in a rig following a path via a sort of physics-based system:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aXjzxI6kXY

[buoyant zenith]

Can I just say: I also have entire wish list of extinct horses and camels.

[fresh ember]

Eohippus is at they very top of mine.

[buoyant zenith]

I already have a whole idea for that little guy.

Petting zoo exhibit.

[fast shoal]

Purusaurus is at the top for me

Or any other large crocodilian or crocodilian relative

[fresh ember]

I mean in the context of horses and camels.

[fast shoal]

Purus my favorite tho

[fresh ember]

Still high up in general, though. Don't get me wrong.

[late swallow]

Purussaurus is a good croc pick

Personally I'm gunning for S. impetator

[buoyant zenith]

Need Paracamelus, Aepycamelus, Megatylopus, Camelops, Megacamelus, all the big ones.

[polar tinsel]

Eohippus as mentioned already. Hippidion and/or Hagerman Horse for the more developed horses. Titanylops and/or Paracamelus for the camels and I'm set 👌

[toxic oriole]

Camelops might appear in a La Brea DLC, probably

[fast shoal]

Deino would also be cool

[toxic oriole]

I mean it does seem likely for that

Assuming they do a La Brea DLC

[buoyant zenith]

Goated list.

[toxic oriole]

Since as far as I remember, there are Camelops bones that have been found in La Brea

[late swallow]

Oh absolutely all of the giant crocs are cool

[buoyant zenith]

Speaking of goats… I need to find more genuses of extinct ones.

[toxic oriole]

Even the ones under Crocodylus, the ones that went extinct?

[late swallow]

I said they're cool

Not that they're all great additions

[toxic oriole]

Well yeah, do you find those extinct Crocodylus members to be cool too?

[late swallow]

The 3 distinct genera mentioned are the most likely foe the gsme

[buoyant zenith]

Recently watched a video that talked about more horned crocs, so cool.

[late swallow]

Giant ✅
Croc ✅
Cool ✅

[polar tinsel]

There's those weird cold blooded ones from western Mediterranean. Also Ethiopian Takin maybe?

[late swallow]

Goats aren't real

[toxic oriole]

Talking these guys

[buoyant zenith]

I only really know Myotragus.

[toxic oriole]

Or a specific few

[late swallow]

Read my previous comment

[buoyant zenith]

Mammal pigeons?

There is something uncanny about those eyes…

[late swallow]

Ruiners of island ecosystems

[toxic oriole]

Why's Myotragus even called the Cave Goat as well?
Look up Cave Goat and you get Myotragus

[late swallow]

Literally the reason the Malagasy tortoises and the Galapagos subspecies went extinct

[toxic oriole]

Of these few, which one would be more likely to get in, if at all?

... 6 of them really

Eh, some TRUE Crocodile representation could be in favor, if Crocodylomorphs and Pseudosuchians are getting in

[late swallow]

Lived in cave

Or rather, found in Pleistocene cave deposits

[buoyant zenith]

Just found out about Harrington’s mountain goat.

[late swallow]

It is spelled out pretty clearly if you read the article

[fresh ember]

Looping back to this for a brief moment, but I worded this so, so wrong.

[buoyant zenith]

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-guy-relaxing-popcorm-popcorn-gif-26404903

[buoyant zenith]

All good. We all do it at times.

[fresh ember]

On the topic of vivarium species, I wonder if Hesperornis would be a better fit in that category rather than a normal habitat.

[buoyant zenith]

Why not? Def would make a cool one. Especially if you can put in sand and whatnot.

[late swallow]

I don't feel any of them would be terribly likely, but of any of them, I'd see anthropophagus

[late swallow]

Semi-aquatic, 1.5-2m, Cretaceous Cormorant? Sign me the fuck up

[fast shoal]

Hell yeah the animal

[buoyant zenith]

You think Pelagornis could also be considered for vivarium/aviary setting?

[fast shoal]

I could see Hesperornis being free roam considering it’s size

[late swallow]

No

[late swallow]

Don't use prehistoric-wildlifr

[fast shoal]

Mb

[fresh ember]

I was more thinking about how it moved before learning otherwise.

Didn't realize new studies suggested it probably was capable of walking.

[late swallow]

Pelagornis is the big boi

[fast shoal]

Are the devs fully planning on flying animals?

I forgot

[fresh ember]

It's something they wanna tackle.

[fast shoal]

Alr

[late swallow]

They'd love to post ea

[fresh ember]

Depends on a number of factors at the end of the day.

[late swallow]

Andean Condor and Wandering albatross, btw

[fast shoal]

Hopefully its possible for the flyers to free roam

[late swallow]

3d movement is hard

[fast shoal]

If the devs ever get to a point where they can add them

[fast shoal]

Yeah my hopes arent that high for JWE style movement

But if they can do it

PK might be the best park builder ever

[buoyant zenith]

Why did I read tickle? 😭

[fast shoal]

Because like imagine a pk style hatz flying throughout an ecosystem or smnth

Actual cinema

[toxic oriole]

Aside from insects, there were no flying animals in the Permian I guess?

[fast shoal]

No vertebrates could fly

[buoyant zenith]

Who knows? The fossil record is incomplete and hides many mysteries.

[fresh ember]

There were reptiles that could glide, such as Coelurosauravus, but not true flight, as far as we could tell.

[fast shoal]

Its cool to think abt

[toxic oriole]

Gliding in general is just a first step I reckon

[late swallow]

Falling in style

[toxic oriole]

Then when the Mesozoic came along, thats when flying animals started to take off

... Literally.

[late swallow]

Genuinely one of the first steps to flight

[toxic oriole]

Would like to see Eudimorphodon at some point

Yeah I know it aint related to Dimorphodon or something

Just a name choice, is all

[buoyant zenith]

Also so excited for those Triassic wonders.

[late swallow]

Funky little guy

[late swallow]

More Chinle rep would be appreciated

[buoyant zenith]

Chinle?

Is it a formation?

[fresh ember]

Yeah, it's home to Coelophysis.

[late swallow]

Chinle FM. SW United States, PEFO

Rich with paleobiota

[buoyant zenith]

Drepanosaurs, phytosaurs, rynchosaurs, ahhhh!!!

[toxic oriole]

The guy from Italy

[late swallow]

And petrified wood

[toxic oriole]

Eudimorphodon really needs more love tbf

Infact...

Plenty of them need more love, but uhhh

Yeah I don't even know

[buoyant zenith]

At the end of the day, many of our rare beloveds won’t get a chance to be part of the game but we can always settle for mods and making theoretical exhibits for them.

I love Rhamphorhynchus.

[wary nacelle]

Rhamphorhynchus for semi-aquatic terrariums 2025

[buoyant zenith]

Great idea.

I think maybe doing a mix of gliding and flying animals in an aviary would be cool. Just personally I would try combining those that lived in the same time period and area if possible.

[slow shoal]

small pterosaurs could def hypothetically work for arboreal vivariums

[buoyant zenith]

Def gonna have to reference some papers to find out what could work for such a thing.🤩

Honestly, with more species in all cases of additions, I would love to create mixed exhibits.

[late swallow]

Yeah, however it won't be a thing for vivaria

[buoyant zenith]

That’s fine, if removal of the cages is still possible in later stages, I will remove them and just keep that under an aviary dome and have people just walk through based on the design.

[late swallow]

Sucks, but such is the way

[buoyant zenith]

Illusions are still possible.

[late swallow]

Can get rid of walls and ceiling

In sept diary

[buoyant zenith]

There. Enough for me.

At least there is still a type of work around.

Part of me is surprised they didn’t include Beelzebufo for the vivs.

Hmm, still can come later.

[buoyant zenith]

Watched some stuff on Alamosaurus, honestly, if they ever are interested in making more titanosaurs, this one devs.

[late swallow]

Alamo is cool

[short rover]

Alamo is a cool animal but tbh I think it’s a lackluster roster pick

Mainly because it wouldn’t add much diversity to the roster that argentinosaurus doesn’t already do super well as the beeg osteoderm titanosaur

[late swallow]

We could defo do for more titanosaurs

[buoyant zenith]

It would make Hell Creek basically complete.

[short rover]

Would prefer saltasaurus or magyrasaurus

[short rover]

?

There were no sauropods in hell creek

[buoyant zenith]

It was the last sauropod species know in North America after the sauropod hiatus. Dang it, I thought it was around that area since I kept hearing what species it lived with.

[buoyant zenith]

Honestly, thinking about it now, could Puertasaurus not be an alt species for Argentino?

[late swallow]

Nope, Rex's southern range (Tyrannosaurus "mccraensis")

[buoyant zenith]

Don’t know how I didn’t have that cleared up.

Hmm, maybe occasional stragglers.

[shell sonnet]

I'm going to blunt be on Alamo; it's a nice animal but 90% of the desire for it is because it (might have) lived with Rex

[buoyant zenith]

That’s all fine and dandy. On my part, it comes 100% from the fact I am a sauropod nerd (I apologize tho for that blunder about Hell Creek).

[shell sonnet]

You have a fake theropod as your profile pic, so I don't believe you

[buoyant zenith]

That’s cool. You don’t have to.

[late swallow]

He's joking

[buoyant zenith]

I know. I assumed.

[shell sonnet]

It could but it's an awful choice

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/crazy-eyes-steve-buscemi-big-eyes-gif-11491116276663604660

[buoyant zenith]

Why do none of these huge sauropod species have more complete fossils??? 😭😭😭😭

[late swallow]

Taphonomy

[late swallow]

Dread is what you want to look at

[buoyant zenith]

Just get me a Time Machine at this point.

[shell sonnet]

Because fossilization is hard for one bone and they're huge

[buoyant zenith]

Maybe if I fall out of the sky, I might land on one.

[late swallow]

Dread was (is?) The most complete sauropod over 40t

[buoyant zenith]

I know. I am just complaining.

[shell sonnet]

Dread, Patagotitian, Futalognkosaurus

[buoyant zenith]

Thank you for reminding me about that last one.

[shell sonnet]

those are relatively complete for large titanosaurs

[late swallow]

I hate how Lognkosauria is spelled

[late swallow]

Ask droid to show you sometime

[late swallow]

OH its an indigenous word

And still pronounced long

Threw me the fuck off

[silver steeple]

Doesn't make it not look kinda goofy in english lol

[late swallow]

At least now it makes sense

[buoyant zenith]

We could make do also with some Asian titanos.

[late swallow]

And Mamenchisaurid

[buoyant zenith]

Yes, those are among my loves!

[late swallow]

I was introduced by jwe2

[shell sonnet]

If only the main one wasn't a mess

[late swallow]

Also would love niger

[shell sonnet]

Opisthocoelicaudia with Nemgeto's skull would work best

[late swallow]

Would also offer an analog for Alamo

[buoyant zenith]

I just found out that the earliest titano found is called Ninjatitan. 😆

Maybe we need that guy too.

I would totally name one Ninja. Another, Peeping Tom. 🤣🤣🤣

[shell sonnet]

I'll be honest, I've run out of space for the Sauropodmorpha wishlist and if we need another titanosaur, then I'm going to throw my support at Salta

[buoyant zenith]

Bring all the salt names.

[late swallow]

Totally fair

Saltasaurus is famed for a reason

[buoyant zenith]

Thanks for this round of sauropod bingo!

Definitely still feel spoiled by the current species we have. 🥰🥰

[late swallow]

We have like one I like

[buoyant zenith]

And which is that?

[late swallow]

Argent

[buoyant zenith]

Argent is like my top two of the ones we have.

I’d say Brachio is first for me.

[short rover]

Top ones I want ingame rn are amarga, mamench, and diplodocus

Niger and magyra are up there too

[late swallow]

All good picks

Magy's a bit spotty imo but otherwise I'm with you

[short rover]

Amarga is my number one atm, it’s such a cool size niche and looks so cool

[late swallow]

It really is

[short rover]

Could be Europa as well, as long as we get one dwarf sauropod

[late swallow]

Would love a spine and a sail variant

[late swallow]

Yeah some sort of dwarf rep

[short rover]

Maybe one spiny skin and two sailed skins as a compromise since the sail seems more likely

[late swallow]

I've warmed up to the idea

[short rover]

Also because I think the sail provides more opportunity for amazing patterns

[late swallow]

Defo

Knowing these devs?

They'll go nuts with patterns

The patterning in the artbook

[buoyant zenith]

Anyone read about Amphicoelias and that whole wreck of a story about the bone gone missing?

[ancient ibex]

Maraapunisaurus has been a thing for 7 years already tho

[coarse inlet]

I am still super skeptical about Maraapunisaurus

[toxic oriole]

Reminds me of Bruhathkayosaurus

Then again, somewhat similar circumstances

Ones fossil turned to nothing, another missing

Both are probably the largest land animals EVER

Both are sauropods

Both are... questionable.

[coarse inlet]

At least Bruhathkayosaurus has photos

[buoyant zenith]

It’s up to the people to go hunting again.

But, at least makes for an interesting story in the saga of palaeontological discoveries.

[buoyant zenith]

Bro’s a bruh moment.

[coarse inlet]

I'm mainly talking about the identification as a valid rebbachisaurid genus, not even the size

[buoyant zenith]

Honestly, that’s got to be one of the most frustrating things as a palaeontologist.

[coarse inlet]

like frankly I find a diplodocid of the size originally proposed MORE believable than a member of a family otherwise not seen on that continent, like 5x the size of the largest known member of that family, from much earlier than any other member of that family, even if it's at a more precidented size for sauropods in general

[buoyant zenith]

I think they were trying for spontaneity by the way you just explained that. They love a little bit of notoriety from time to time.

But I agree, sounds very sketchy.

[ancient ibex]

Rebbachisaurids had to be a thing if Diplodocids and Dicraeosaurids were already around tho

[late swallow]

that's not the problem

behold! AMNH 5777, or, rather, the sketch that is literally all we have. and all we have had since 1897 at the latest

there's almost no way for us to place it, and it being an egregiously large rebbachisaurid is much less likely

[slim flare]

Actually that’s Maraapunisaurus now

We still have the Amphicoelias holotype afaik

[late swallow]

this is the A. fragillimus holotype

[slim flare]

Yes and it’s in a new genus

It hasn’t been in Amphicoelias since 2018

[late swallow]

which means its the ssame holotype

[slim flare]

Uh, no

[late swallow]

uh, yes

[slim flare]

Behold Amphicoelias altus holotype AMNH 5764

[late swallow]

that's altus

not fragillimus

[slim flare]

Yes and the type species of Amphicoelias is altus

So fragillimus is Maraapunisaurus and should be referred to as such. Afaik they aren’t thought to be closely related even.

[late swallow]

by one guy so far, and i dont see how there's enough material to even make a taxonomic opinion on

[flint sable]

Amphicoelias is that one species of sauropod that could have been extremely extremely massive if part of one clade but relatively average if part of another clade

I forgot what sauropods they were specifically

but thats what it is, right?

[buoyant zenith]

I hope we miraculously find better bones in the future and somehow more complete.

[late swallow]

unfortunately, AMNH 5777's location is eroded to hell and there's almost no chance of us finding any more in the area

[buoyant zenith]

Maybe another spot then. I am an eternal optimist. 😭

[slim flare]

Some day

And twice as big

[late swallow]

why are you such an obnoxious pedant man

[slim flare]

What?

Do you even know what I said?

I said some day we’re going to find more remains of fragillimus and they’re this time they’re going to be twice as big.

[late swallow]

you know damn well that's not what i was referring to

[slim flare]

Then why say it so long after?

I guess I hallucinated you actually calling it Amphicoelias

[coarse inlet]

What are you talking about

[proper raven]

also looking back, maraapuni's side profile for its vert does resemble rebbachisaurids

its why they revised its taxonomic rank to be a rebbachisaurid instead of a diplodocid in the 1st place

but it wouldnt look too different from diplodocines/apatosaurines since itd be a basal rebbachisaur

[slim flare]

Maraapunisaurus is A. fragillimus

[proper raven]

if i had a nickel everytime a giant sauropod specimen which no longer exists is attributed to an existing valid taxon

[slim flare]

Idk, how many nickels?

[fast shoal]

Alamo is lwk my goat

definitely apart of my personal top 7 dinosaurs

[frosty heron]

Real

alamosaurus mentioned so yall are getting words

I like it because its in an incredibly unique spot time-wise, being a crowning titan after the big hiatus is so cool

also, osteoderms (probably)

lot of room for visual design, with a bit more of an exaggerated/speculative aesthetic, more extensive bone armor on alamo is a personal favorite

its so cool

[fast shoal]

It’d be cool if we got more speculative variants for future animals

Like idk a carno with bull like horns

[frosty heron]

We already have a more stylized critter in iggy and unlike speculation in feathered pachy, I think a few more could be good as long as they're well done

A carno skin w/ exaggerated horns would be epic

[ancient dagger]

Alright, here's my third species suggestion list as these provide a lot of discussion. This time: exhibit-sized synapsids. You know the drill, but this time there are currently no exhibit-sized synapsids coming to EA that I know of, so nothing will be underlined or crossed out. Given most of the synapsids I can think of are small enough to be vivarium size, a smaller roster of 12 was settled on:

Anteosaurus
Cotylorhynchus
Dimetrodon
Edaphosaurus
Estemmenosuchus
Inostrancevia
Jonkeria
Lisowicia
Moschops
Moschorhinus
Placerias
Titanophoneus

[slim flare]

Is Alamosaurus morphologically unique compared to Argentinasaurus?

[frosty heron]

Unsure. adolescent argent is probably a decent substitute but as mentioned part of wanting it is seeing what PK team could do with the desig

[slim flare]

Because it is from a cool time and place

But afaik the animal itself is just a generic titanosaur

[coarse inlet]

they're all generic titanosaurs until we have enough pieces lol

[buoyant zenith]

Bro was the last sauropod in North America. Put some respect on that name. Generic who???? Last of a line more like.

[coarse inlet]

he's clearly talking about appearance

[buoyant zenith]

I know.

I’m just having fun.

[coarse inlet]

but the thing is that while we have a decent idea of what A Titanosaur looks like

we have next to no idea about what most specific species of Titanosaur look like

[buoyant zenith]

I hope we one day get wowed by a titanosaur mummy.

[frosty heron]

This is true

[frosty heron]

and then a century later get to learn about it with a proper description😭feel like that would be a nightmare to exacavate/examine no

[buoyant zenith]

I would hope there’s some sort of machines by then that could help.

[frosty heron]

perhaps

maybe in-site examination would be better? just leave it there with protections and on site-buildings?

[buoyant zenith]

I try to believe in humanity’s abilities.

[frosty heron]

smaller chunks of sauropods already need heavy machinery afaik

[buoyant zenith]

Yes, dig around it. You might as well make it like one of those excavation museum exhibits.

[frosty heron]

mm

[buoyant zenith]

You’d want it as intact as possible. And with our scanning tech? I bet they could do it pretty well to get good info.

[tame thorn]

If we get diamantinasaurus for Australia I will be happy.

[coarse inlet]

I mean

they do not make CT scanners that big

like they cant even give elephants CT scans last I checked

[tame thorn]

not full body, but part body they can

[buoyant zenith]

They could maybe reconfigure with a drone?

[coarse inlet]

point is you are not gonna get a titanosaur scanned

[buoyant zenith]

You find a way to do it. We’re smart. We can find new ways to do such a thing if the day ever comes.

[tame thorn]

not a complete one no, you would have to scan each bone individually, but even then some parts won't fit like the pelvic girdle

[coarse inlet]

it's not the tech itself that's the issue

CT scanners arent made for paleo they're made for medicine, paleontologists can sometimes borrow them if lucky

paleo has nowhere NEAR the funding needed to make a dedicated CT scanner let alone the biggest one ever made

[buoyant zenith]

I think it would make more sense that for field expeditions that new tech is developed into drones for that sort of thing.

[coarse inlet]

once again really overestimating the budget

[buoyant zenith]

Maybe with time that could happen. We know how long it takes to make leaps and bounds.

[tame thorn]

one thing to remember too, which I remember listening to two paleontologists talking at an svp, the bones can contain random minerals which either make it not possible to ct scan, or hinders any ct scanning on it as it is unreadable., They are scanning rock, not bone, so the composition is not a simple scan and find everything out

[buoyant zenith]

Overestimating or not, we’re talking possibility. And maybe necessity will somehow make that possibility swing in their favor.

[proper raven]

if a drone can lift 11+ tonnes of solid rock ill be happy ngl

[buoyant zenith]

Yeah, definitely not what I meant. My idea is that the drone would be able to scan the fossil through layers (kinda like a sonogram and in other ways) that it completely gets a full image of it in that way. Different compositions based on what they want to study and so on.

But yeah, if a drone lifted that mass, phew indeed.

[ancient ibex]

Amphicoelias is a nondescript apatosaur, because the type is altus, which is a completely different thing from fragillimus

[ancient ibex]

Morrison stuff tends to have pyrite I believe, and I don't think that's something you want to have near powerful magnets

[late swallow]

They tried radar but the bones were just the same mudstone as the surrounding matrix

[ancient ibex]

Smh Jurassic Park getting hopes up lol

Fossil bone is chemically the same as the surrounding matrix, thus properties related to composition rather than structure are invisible that way

[amber field]

but JP was focusing more on extract DNA from mosquito

[polar tinsel]

Pleistocene Podium: Homotherium

PK has already given us four fantastic felines from pleistocene, so would one more be excessive? I don't think so.

Homotherium stands out in more ways than one. To start off, this beast had extensive range. It lived on five continents, which makes it amazing pick to mix and match with many other animals when creating location-based zoo sections. Not to mention how well it would enrich already well established roster of Eurasian steppe in the game.

Next, it's unique anatomy makes it easily distinguishable amongst other prehistoric felines, be it short stocky body, tall legs made for running, elongated horse like neck or short scimitar canines pouched in fluffy beard.

Recently we've had scientific breakthrough when we discovered frozen Homotherium cub in Siberian permafrost. As first sabre-tooth cat found in this condition, we finally got glimpses in how one of these animals could look.

Between brown bearded variant from pic below, like latest reconstructions and something more speculative with different coat patterns and "unsheathed" fangs, I think PK art team could have field day with designing variants for Homotherium.

That would be it for this one. Until tomorrow 👋

Art by Hodari Nundu.

It was suggested to me to migrate my daily pleistocene suggestions to this thread, so that's what's gonna happen

[tough marsh]

Just one note Keratocephalus has issues same for Doliosauriscus

Otherwise good picks

[left spear]

If only all suggestions were this well argued

[shell sonnet]

Scutosaurus isn't a synapsid (it's a good pick still) and Doliosauriscus is a junior synonym of Titanophoneus (still a great pick especially as an alt of Anteosaurus)

[ancient dagger]

My bad lmao I just automatically put Scutosaurus alongside Inostrancevia in my mind

[ancient dagger]

I know Dolio is a junior synonym. What’s Kerato’s issue?

[tough marsh]

Kerato has the same issue

[ancient dagger]

Gotcha

[tough marsh]

Also no Biarmosuchians?

[ancient dagger]

My knowledge of therapsids is still comparatively sparse so that's the first time I heard of that one

A lot of those could make for good vivarium species

[late swallow]

Tbf most peoples knowledge thereof is rather sparse

[late swallow]

Achelousaurus is cool

One of the few late 20th century named ceratopsids, and a weird transitional state towards Pachyrhinosaurus

Definitely not an EA species

[shell sonnet]

We do have good remains of the smaller ones. Opisthocoelicaudia is most of the skeleton without the skull and neck. Salta is pretty good as well. Neuquensaurus and Qunkasaura are decent enough as well.

[shell sonnet]

Someone's been playing Parkasaurus

[late swallow]

Yes

Genuinely

Saw the acid trip that is that things roster

But read a bit more about Achelou and got an interesting thing going on

[late swallow]

It's a fun little builder that helped me with burnout

[coarse inlet]

Yeah I was referring to the ones that don’t have good remains

[late swallow]

Mornin phorc

[shell sonnet]

Really the biggest issuse is the lack of skulls: Negmeto, Tapuia, and sort of Quaesito are the only ones we have off the top of my head

Oh and Rapetosaurus

[hollow furnace]

Arguably the most interesting part about it in particular is already on Argentinosaurus as a speculative choice (osteoderms)

If we had to get another giant titanosaur I’d honestly rather getting a smooth one rather than another osteodermed one

[buoyant zenith]

I really do think it’s a cool choice tho. Personal opinion.

[shell sonnet]

So we get Futalognkosaurus on the grounds that it shares a digsite with both Megaraptor and Austroraptor alt Unenlagia comahuensis

[late swallow]

Sold

[buoyant zenith]

Have you guys heard of the newly described Utetitan? Apparently they derived it from previously speculated Alamosaurus fossils.

[hollow furnace]

Yes

[late swallow]

I haven't but that's because I'm not a turbo nerd

[shell sonnet]

It's got Paul's name attached to it...

[late swallow]

Also droid kinda works in the field iirc

[hollow furnace]

I do not

[buoyant zenith]

Neither am I to the extent you might think but just randomly found out about it on a dino Reddit thread.

[late swallow]

I don't use reddit

[late swallow]

That man can't decide if he's a splitter or a lumper

[hollow furnace]

Alamosaurus is almost certainly overlumped, but also a bit of a dick move to name a new taxa on your own without even looking at the fossils first hand

[buoyant zenith]

Ok? I wasn’t saying against anyone who isn’t.

[hollow furnace]

Kinda a bit scoopy

[late swallow]

I'm just explaining why I likely hadn't been exposed to it

[shell sonnet]

He's been both, Giraffititan was his idea

[late swallow]

Paul what the fuck is that specific name

[buoyant zenith]

Neither do I. This was the first time that happened to me. Usually I found out about other through particular searches or watching vids from paleo YouTubers.

[shell sonnet]

For once, he didn't offer a measurement

[late swallow]

C'est la vie

[buoyant zenith]

I feel like that’s an example of people coming to a point where they think they recognize something off the bat from working with it so long that it comes off as not investigating further. But then also, it’s like some people are lumpers and others new species every time type thing.

[late swallow]

Paul is just ancient and huffing copium

[buoyant zenith]

Very true. I will let you know if I ever somehow stumble into the dark web and find something new.

[late swallow]

He ruined two very cool ass species names

If another Tyrannosaurus species becomes valid

[shell sonnet]

In any case (just because this is the suggestions thread and not the science chat), Utetitan is not a good choice for the game given how messy the whole thing is.

[buoyant zenith]

Oh I just mentioned it because I found out about it randomly and we were talking so much about Alamo. Definitely not suggesting it. There are so many better well known ones that deserve the spotlight.

[buoyant zenith]

I know we have a lot of rhinos in game surprisingly (they feel like the ceratopsian situation in the mammals since there are so many species to choose from) but I really like the idea of getting Stephanorhinus species.

Specifically Merck's, Narrow-nosed, and etruscus.

Although, we could get some love for Miocene rhinos since those are one a plenty.

[lean hound]

Please god no

no more rhinos

at least until we get more cenozoics

half of the current ceno roster are rhinos/rhino relatives

[buoyant zenith]

Yeah, I definitely would ask for something like that later down the line, I just am putting this out there. I wonder who is the rhino fan on the devs team.

[buoyant zenith]

Personally I thought they might go crazier for elephant relatives.

Honestly my wish list there is pretty long: Deinotherium (bozasi, indicum, giganteum), Mastodon (americanum, pacificum, matthewi), Prodeinotherium (bavaricum, hobleyi, sinense), Mammoth (columbi, exilis, trogontherii/subplanifrons), Cuvieronius+Notiomastodon (last S.American gomphotheres so I think they can be grouped together with one as the alt species), Stegodon, Zygolophodon, Gomphotherium, Phiomia, Moeritherium, Paleoloxodon.

[quick ore]

the only other rhino I think would be cool to add would be something Hyrachyus as a nice filler small herbivore and a companion for Pezosiren

[silver steeple]

Some little rhino like Menoceras or something would be fun

Would fit right alongside something like Moropus (my top 2nd pick for a chalicothere)

[quick ore]

ye

is Anisodon #1?

[silver steeple]

Chalico proper

[quick ore]

ah

[silver steeple]

Idc for Anisodon tbh

And they'd almost certainly go for Chalico regardless, just like they have for Ovi and Brachi

[quick ore]

mhm

[buoyant zenith]

Ugh, there are so many cool chalicotheres that I would go feral for since there are so many genera.

[quick ore]

I also think Ancylotherium or Tylocephalonyx would be cool

[silver steeple]

Funny animal

Would be neat to see some of the short snouted pleistocene ones

Like Hesperotherium

Silly animal

Love this art of one hanging out with a baby bear

[late swallow]

Read as Chalico pepper

[silver steeple]

Its a little weird how much art puts it in a snowy environment tho

It lived alongside Gigantopithecus lol

[buoyant zenith]

That's fricking awesome.

That would be a sick enclosure.

[polar tinsel]

Hesperotherium my goat, I plan to make dedicated post for daily plesitocene recc for him. We could get some other Chaclichoteres as alt variants along the way

[buoyant zenith]

If we get a species, you better name one Chili.

[polar tinsel]

Ancylotheroum or Moropus to cover more continents for example

[silver steeple]

Given the short snout of Hespero, alts of earlier genera probably aren't really possible

Especially of schizotheriines

Which would require a different animation set, due to how they walk

[polar tinsel]

Makes sense

[buoyant zenith]

I think we should totally have a few different species that dedicate to each part of the family tho. They are kinda underrated in the Cenozoic roster imo.

[polar tinsel]

Well wouldn't mind few different chalichotheres then, but if I had to pick one, Hesperotherium would have to be the one

[digital pendant]

i think that was people misinterpreting the formation fauna assemblages and mixing them when they shouldnt have

[silver steeple]

So what would have lived with it then? I remember one of the 2 pleistocene chalicotheres probably have lived alongside the hyrax Postschizotherium

[digital pendant]

stegodon, early tigers, big tapir, etc

[polar tinsel]

Were tigers not fully developed by the pleistocene?

[silver steeple]

It looks like Nestoritherium had a massive range

Wonder if the same was true of Hesperotherium

[silver steeple]

Legit from northern china down to Indonesia

[buoyant zenith]

It feels funny that we never actually seem to be invested about Cenozoic jungle ecosystems, or at least, I feel like I rarely hear much about them.

[silver steeple]

Iirc Panthera tigris as we know it only shows up like Mid-Pleistocene, as the last chalicotheres die out with Hesperotherium

[digital pendant]

there are a lot of them tbf

most of south american formations throughout the cenozoic are jungles

[buoyant zenith]

True.

[buoyant zenith]

Maybe I mean the Asian side of things more. Definitely know a bit more about S. American ones.

[polar tinsel]

There you go, didn't know that

[digital pendant]

there are a bit on the asian ones

[buoyant zenith]

Any you suggest for me to research?

[digital pendant]

sundaland and south china are pretty well studied pleistocene wise

same with india

[silver steeple]

SEA has some decent fossil remains

Especially in Sundaland ye

[buoyant zenith]

I think I did watch a thing on Sundaland recently...

[digital pendant]

P. bugtiense which is in the game comes from a tropical formation with decent fauna remains

https://x.com/JoschuaKnuppe/status/1878531118053372332/photo/1
https://x.com/JoschuaKnuppe/status/1878531114676994168/photo/1

Joschua Knüppe (@JoschuaKnuppe)

The formation actually features the holotype species of Paraceratherium, which is among the smallest species :P Considering the heavily forested environment this might be a forest elephant situation (?)

X · Jan 12, 2025, 7:54 PM

Joschua Knüppe (@JoschuaKnuppe)

There we go, the first formation piece of the year 2025. The upper Bugti member of the Chitarwata formation has a lot of megafauna (and not much else), but it contains one of the few instances where Paraceratherium and proboscideans overlapped.
#paleostream

X · Jan 12, 2025, 7:54 PM

[late swallow]

It's also the type!

[buoyant zenith]

Ugh, you know what else we could talk about? Creodonts.

Is there any popular ones y'all think could make it into a future roster?

[late swallow]

Ferae is full of cool shit

[silver steeple]

I didn't realize we had elephantoids from the area by that time, neat

[buoyant zenith]

If it's a younger species of Para, this might be by the transition period when elephants start making their mark and slowly these rhinos lose their habitat.

[silver steeple]

Manis palaeojavanica my beloved......

[late swallow]

Oh that's a big boi

[silver steeple]

Yeah nearly boar sized Pangolin is nuts lol

[shell sonnet]

This is true but they did also choose Carchar and Lambe over Giga and Cory (and Torvo over Megalo)

[silver steeple]

Both of those are just as popular as the other tbh

Up until the last couple of years for giga

[late swallow]

Lambeosaurus is pretty popular

[shell sonnet]

I can promoise you Cory and Giga are more popular

[silver steeple]

Ok

[late swallow]

Don't care

[shell sonnet]

Fuck, Cory was the Lambeosaur for decades

[silver steeple]

Neither of them are comparable in the slightest to Anisodon lmao

[glass snow]

I knew there was a giant extinct pangolin but I didn’t know it was that big.

[silver steeple]

Nor are they comparable to the situation with Ovi or Brachi

[late swallow]

Nor do I think it even matters

Devs will add what devs will add

[glass snow]

The devs know what they want to add

[late swallow]

This is just a yelling room

[shell sonnet]

They choose the better known and popular one in two cases and the lesser known one in three others

[silver steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-gif-7918001283757103648

[shell sonnet]

I don't see how they're uncomparable

[late swallow]

None of it matters

[shell sonnet]

Sure, but that doesn't mean they couldn't chose Anisodon

[plush nacelle]

Anisodon can easily have pleistocene alts

[silver steeple]

Could they? Sure why not

But they really don't tend to chose no-names as the core animal

As an alt, yeah that's not uncommon

Chalico has both name power and in-built alt potential

[buoyant zenith]

Ok, aside from arguing that which time periods would you want to work with more in terms of chalicotheres if a mixed habitat became an option based on other species in game that come?

[plush nacelle]

Anisodon with sansan fauna and pleistocene hesperotherium alt with gigantopithecus

[shell sonnet]

Deinotherium, Amphicyon, Platybelodon,Homotherium, Hemicyon,Kubanochoerus, Sivatherium, Synotheracas, Amebelodon
I need go through the land mammal ages more thoroughly though

[plush nacelle]

Could also see borissiakia for proper chalicothere that could lived alongside paraceratherium

[buoyant zenith]

I would want those two powerhourses together.

[shell sonnet]

I forget Hyainailouros as well

And Megistotherium

[buoyant zenith]

You got me high on those hyaenodons. Can't wait to have a few of those in game.

[shell sonnet]

As for minis, Lagomeryx and Deinogalerix

[shell sonnet]

Is there anything from the Messel pit besides Gastornis, Boverisuchus and maybe Hyrachyus that isn't a mini that's worth adding?

[quick ore]

Propaleotherium

would be great for cohabbing with Gastornis

[shell sonnet]

I think that one's too small; it's smaller than V-raptor.

[buoyant zenith]

Aren’t there early horses in that ecosystem?

[shell sonnet]

Also this is why you don't trust Google AI

[quick ore]

so? Velociraptor is a dinosaur with a long body and tail

any mammal, especially an ungulate, is going to be smaller than it

if around the same size

because their bauplans are ao different

[plush nacelle]

It is bigger

[shell sonnet]

I'm not measuring length but weight

[plush nacelle]

Small is now eurohippus

That 60cm shoulder tall is something between 20kg and 80

[quick ore]

Propaleotherium as a vivarium animal would be ridiculous

[shell sonnet]

Wiki says 10 kg

[plush nacelle]

Small one

[quick ore]

imagine putting a pudu in an indoor exhibit

[buoyant zenith]

You could have it in one of those walkway displays.

Where guests walk through.

[plush nacelle]

Bigger species is according to many sources as big as german shepherd - 60 cm tall, while smaller is about fox sized - 30 cm tall

[shell sonnet]

We do have mouse deer inside viviarium like exhibits and they're the same size

[quick ore]

I feel like people are being too strict about exhibit species requirements when the animals we have currently to base those off of rn don't follow the bauplans of groups like smaller mammals and birds

[buoyant zenith]

Honestly, that could literally depend on the zoo and what they were recommended based on where the zoo is located.

Let’s leave it at that.

[quick ore]

yeah

[plush nacelle]

Lets not pretend, if there was pudu in PK it wouldn't be vivarium

[quick ore]

yeah there is certainly an argument to be made for vibes based judgements for this kind of stuff

[buoyant zenith]

Like, I think at least these modern examples aren’t bad based on the fact they have similar habitats, right?

All I think that’s maybe so different is the heat based on the Eocene climate.

[plush nacelle]

This why with extinct animals you can always look for bigger alternative to meet exhibit criteria

Doesnt always makes sense, but there always is other possibility

[buoyant zenith]

They’re spoiled rotten in this game anyways. 😅

[plush nacelle]

Shit would be peak

[buoyant zenith]

Stop, that looks so cute.

[shell sonnet]

Yes Gastornis and Hyrachyus would be nice

[buoyant zenith]

You know, random stuff but I really think the smaller mammals would make great life size plushies.

[plush nacelle]

Small horse looking critters, whatever

Just bring one

[late swallow]

They look like fat lil tapirs

[shell sonnet]

They're Rhinocerotoid

[buoyant zenith]

CUTE fat lil tapirs.

[amber field]

I think Boverisuchus would preyed on them

[buoyant zenith]

Leave my lil fat tapirs alone. 😭😭😭

[late swallow]

I think some Miocene tapirs could be cool

[buoyant zenith]

Anyone have any mustelids or pinnipeds on their wish list?

[late swallow]

Not personally

I don't have many mammals

[sinful coyote]

in theory i would love one of either of those but the fact that i can't think of any extinct ones off the top of my head besides the sea mink is probably a bad sign

[shell sonnet]

Some of the larger Mustelids

Ekorus and Eomellivora are related to honey badgers, and Megalicits is part of a subgroup with no living relatives

I think Ekorus is the only one with a good fossil remains

[buoyant zenith]

Um, may I ask what’s going on with your avatar? Like, do you have an alter ego that comes on at night or something?

[late swallow]

Dissociative Identity Disorder

[buoyant zenith]

So you programmed your discord account to somehow do that?

[toxic oriole]

What

Can you even do something like that on Discord?

[buoyant zenith]

Idk, that’s why I am asking since I see the switch from Artemis to Jaiden then back.

[toxic oriole]

Seems like she's doing it manually

Have to admit, takes alot of patience to do that every few days or so

Changing nickname and PFP

[buoyant zenith]

Yup.

[toxic oriole]

Takes alot of patience to do something like that

Impressive

[late swallow]

Manual

Easier on desktop

With the 6 previous avatars thing, but I have a folder for all of us on phone

Anyway that's not relevant to this channel, strike me up in offtopic sometime

[buoyant zenith]

Yeah, was just curious how come you’re switching, thought it was just a thing based on servers.

[toxic oriole]

Pteranodon and Geosternbergia for PK when flying animals get added!!!

[buoyant zenith]

Anyways, if we get a whole aquatics roster, is anyone planning to do Hell’s aquarium?

[buoyant zenith]

Nyctosaurus too!

[late swallow]

Pteranodon and Pteranodon

[flint sable]

true

[toxic oriole]

Genius alt material anyways

[flint sable]

different species tho, good alt choice

[toxic oriole]

Pterodactylus antiquus for vivariums, Eudimorphodon for some triassic pterosaur representation (also vivarium), and uhhhhh..........

[buoyant zenith]

Dsungaripterus?

I am a sucker for the pterosaurs with cool head ornaments.

[shell sonnet]

Pteranodon longiceps/sternbergi
Tropeognathus mesembrinus
Tupandactylus imperator/navigans
Teratornis merriami or Argentavis magnificens
Thalassodromeus sethi
Quetzalcoatlus northropi/lawsoni/Hatzegopteryx thambema
Dsungaripterus weii
Pterodaustro guinazui
Rhamphorhynchus muensteri
Pelagornis sandersi/miocaenus/chilensis/mauretanicus

Mini
Dimorphodon macronyx
Ichthyornis dispar
Kuehneosuchus latissimus
Jeholopterus ninchengensis
Pterorhynchus wellnhoferi or Pterodactylus antiquus

[late swallow]

not picking Quetz's closest relative?

[buoyant vault]

i was about to suggest teratornis and then i

saw it there

[hollow furnace]

Hateg is like. The one azhdarchid I don’t think could work as a Quetz alt

Sure we don’t have a lot but the tiny scraps we do have are enough to know it was built pretty different

[late swallow]

i just want both Quetzalcoatlins

[hollow furnace]

Same

[late swallow]

Thanatosdrakon is just a sick name

[shell sonnet]

If we get another another azhdarchid, it's going to be Hateg for the location. Otherwise, I think the two Quetza species are fine.

[shell sonnet]

Do you have a paper for this, because the only thing I can find that seems off is the skull's width

[ancient ibex]

Neck vertebrae

[coarse inlet]

I dislike it

Thanatodrakon would be fine

but that S completely ruins it

[coarse inlet]

neck is probably significantly shorter

[ancient ibex]

Thanatos is the deity, Thanato isn't

[shell sonnet]

Yeah, it's a greek myth

[coarse inlet]

Thanatos just means "death"

[hollow furnace]

Skull width for the holotype, neck vertebrae for the referred material

[late swallow]

Thanatos is literally the god of death

[coarse inlet]

all words that use it as a prefix ditch the S

Thanatology, Thanatophobia, etc

[shell sonnet]

And is also the name of the personfication of death, just like Hypnos and sleep

[coarse inlet]

I am aware

but it conjugates differently from most names

[late swallow]

should it be Charonsaurus then

[coarse inlet]

I mean yeah but it's fine, it sounds better with the O

[ancient ibex]

Anyway, stuff from the SVP author listing points towards weird stuff going on with azdharchid evo

[coarse inlet]

but Thanatosdrakon is a chore to say

[coarse inlet]

not shocked at all

[late swallow]

skill issue ig

[ancient ibex]

English pronounciations botching up grecolatin roots is very common anyway

[coarse inlet]

regardless it messes up the flow of the word

[toxic oriole]

No one told me the god of death had a pet dragon

[ancient ibex]

Anyway, once again bringing up neat euceratopsians (with Lepto doing alt duty)

[toxic oriole]

Is that pentaceratops or a different chasmosaurine?

[ancient ibex]

Penta

[toxic oriole]

Would be nice to have Pentaceratops and Torosaurus I guess
Then again, too late for some stuff

And not just those guys

Sinoceratops... A few others like Diabloceratops, Lokiceratops, Zuniceratops I guess, maybe even...

Yeah I am out of ideas

[ancient ibex]

[late swallow]

penta's cool

[toxic oriole]

I know I know, theres already enough ceratopsians in the game anyways (Pachyrhinosaurus, Nasutoceratops, Styracosaurus, Protoceratops, Psitaccosaurus (Correct me if I'm wrong) and Triceratops)

[late swallow]

Einio and Anchelous are ones i'd like to see way down the line

[wild relic]

Psittacosaurus

[wild relic]

I love Eini

[late swallow]

but you are correct that it's a ceratopsian

[toxic oriole]

Basal one, right?

[wild relic]

Yep

[late swallow]

very

[toxic oriole]

Chasmosaurus, Zuniceratops...
Small ceratopsians, ones that arent basal like Psittacosaurus

[late swallow]

analogous to Scelidosaurus with Thyreophora, in a way

[late swallow]

Proto is right there

[toxic oriole]

Basal theropod when???????

[late swallow]

i'm craving herrera

[flint sable]

coelophysis

[toxic oriole]

Yeah I am aware of Protoceratops, though uhhh

Why not some more small fries

[buoyant zenith]

Literally was about to say when I saw your comment.

[toxic oriole]

Yes, I intentionally said small fries

[flint sable]

erm akshully.... its a..... non theropod..... non sauropodomorph..... saurischia......

🤓

[late swallow]

run a phylo on it, it'll move

[ancient ibex]

As of late more and more theropod veering it seems tho

[toxic oriole]

Y'know what, why not include some of the funky ceratopsians before including the usual "ones that resemble other ceratopsians but are very different in their own right" guys

[wild relic]

For me I'd like to see Pentaceratops, Kosmoceratops, Leptoceratops, Koreaceratops, Micropachycephalosaurus, Centrosaurus, Diabloceratops and Albertaceratops

[toxic oriole]

I want Torosaurus, but at the same time I don't want to leave out other ceratopsians

[late swallow]

i'm really only interested in Diablo, Einio, Achelou, and um, sure, toro i guess. Arrhino could be neat

[wild relic]

We definitely need more chasmosaurines

[toxic oriole]

Could also go for Zuniceratops, the small guy
And even Chasmosaurus itself

[buoyant zenith]

I know we have quite a few Triassic small ones, but I wouldn't mind Nyasasaurus to be added.

[toxic oriole]

Speaking of that guy, whats up with em?
Said to have been the first dinosaur to evolve or something, or at least probably the first or ONE of them.

[buoyant zenith]

So many ceratops. 🤩

[toxic oriole]

Ceratopseratops

[buoyant zenith]

Yes.

[late swallow]

do we tho

[buoyant zenith]

In a world of no chasmosaurines, I say gimme them all. I am greedy.

[ancient ibex]

Honestly, I gotta disagree on adding more triceratopsins or pachyrhinosaurins as we are, but to each their own

(potentially cool via alt system tho)

[buoyant zenith]

I'm really thankful we get to work with the different species of a genus and the fact we get those alternates.

I don't know why but that's such a cool aspect to me.

[ancient ibex]

Echo fighter energy

And yep, Udano does cover a neat niche in size and appearance

[late swallow]

it sure does

[buoyant zenith]

That mouth looks so uncanny.

[ancient ibex]

NGL, ceratopsians in general have scary mouths

Jurassic Park really toned it down for trike

[buoyant zenith]

https://tenor.com/view/shrug-gif-342047954663834333

Don't stick your hand in there and nothing happens.😅

For something like a mosa or whale exhibit, would you make a stadium type viewing area?

[slim flare]

Or aquarium

[proper raven]

Triceratops being one of the largest ceratopsians but is an early starter googoogahgah animal in JWE moment

[quick ore]

nah

that feels too Seaworld coded

[proper raven]

3-5 stadiums

depending on whale size too ig

ngl Mosasaurs would prolly be more complicated or not depending if you want a nice exhibit, since theyd probably try to kill each other if they dont got enough room

while whales depending on how the devs theoretically make a genus social or not could be interesting

[buoyant zenith]

I bet the function for that might be at most 1-3. Unless we wanna go into those complicated matters of migrations where they meet up in nurseries or feeding but ugh, nah.

[proper raven]

[buoyant zenith]

Sounds like Hell's aquarium for whichever species then, separate or not.

[proper raven]

the smaller toothed whales i can see doing fine

its just yknow

livyatan+ which would maybe be a hassle

and im using the 10-12m livyatan estimate

[buoyant zenith]

Unless mom and calf.

I realistically think that if somehow a zoo existed that somehow was able to make that happen, I could see like a mom and baby enclosure with the bull next door.

I'd love to make a Tethys sea enclosure.

[proper raven]

ngl sperm whales now that you think about it do resemble abit of an elephantlike sociality

small pod of aunts/mom

bulls do their own thing and ocassionally come by to mate or chill with the pod

[buoyant zenith]

Basilosaurus would also be fun. Just can’t have Dorudon with them.

[toxic oriole]

Basilosaurus was originally gonna be renamed to Zeuglodon or something since the whale thing came out

But its too late because Basilosaurus was published first as the name, so Zeuglodon is a synonym

[buoyant zenith]

Yeah, heard about the alternate name.

[proper raven]

basilosaurus is the better name anyways

King Lizard

meanwhile Zeuglodon being "whale-like yoke teeth"

also basilo is a good pick if you want alt species

[buoyant zenith]

Don’t remind me. Mastodon already is questionable enough.

Nipple tooth. What do you mean there’s a tooth shaped like a nipple????

[hollow furnace]

Imagine a nipple, but hard and enamelled

[late swallow]

Imagine a place noted in scientific literature as Cope's Nipple

[buoyant zenith]

If we ever get Arsinoitherium, totally making the mangrove habitat from the Sea Monsters trilogy featuring Nigel Marvin.

Side note, that docu series is on YouTube.

[buoyant zenith]

Speaking of that series, I would add to my wanted aquatics Cymbospondylus and Odobenocetops.

[toxic oriole]

Whales, right?

At least

Oh wait, Dolphins or something

Toothed whales

[buoyant zenith]

One's an ichthyosaur, the other is a whale.

By Macrophyseter - Own work, CC BY 4.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=152006903

[buoyant zenith]

I hope Australian megafauna will be given some love. So many nice choices there.

[toxic oriole]

Not entirely sure if Thylacine even counts as Megafauna
Eh, its about the size of some dogs so it most likely isnt

Then again, that guys coming to the game in the future anyways (DLC)

[buoyant zenith]

To be fair, I feel like it could be counted.

Existed 4 million years in the way we came to know it.

[toxic oriole]

I mean, at the time it was still alive, you COULD I guess?
Largest carnivorous marsupial at that point before it went extinct

🤷‍♀️

Confusing stuff really

[buoyant zenith]

You know what, maybe some of those trapdoor spiders could be vivarium species!

Heartattack for the keepers but hey, keep your distance and you should be fine. Mostly.

[toxic oriole]

I've suggested certain spiders before, and I think others have done the same thing\

Most people say that "Spiders are too small for vivariums."

And that "Not even the larger ones could make it in."

Yet scorpions seem more likely in that case since they get larger than all spiders

Even sea scorpions for that matter, though I've got a feeling some of those guys may be freeroam aquatic animals when they do add aquatics and such

[buoyant zenith]

I would want to dedicate more space to a bigger spider if it grew more than 30 cms and such.

[toxic oriole]

Too bad Megarachne is a Sea Scorpion as opposed to a spider

Cause from what I can see, there are no super gigantic true spiders in the fossil record

Only big one of today would be the Goliath Birdeater

[buoyant zenith]

Maybe they didn't fossilize well.🥲

[toxic oriole]

Given how not everything fossilizes, that could be likely

[buoyant zenith]

Yo, we could have bats!

[toxic oriole]

That one vampire bat seems likely

The big one

And tbf, some zoo's have bat enclosures anyway

Plus bats in general

[buoyant zenith]

Yeah, def depends on the species and whether it can handle the weather.

[toxic oriole]

Though the question remains for Desmodus draculae...

[buoyant zenith]

Maybe ancient lemurs and primates.

[toxic oriole]

While Desmodus draculae is extinct, its modern counterpart is still alive (Desmodus rotundus)

So you could get a good idea on how one bat would be able to tolerate conditions

And they are vampire bats anyways

[buoyant zenith]

Love that it rhymes.

[toxic oriole]

So yeah, the Giant Vampire Bat does seem likely, and I think it might be the only extinct vampire bat worth anyones time or something?
Hell if I know about how people prefer animals like bats or anything related

... And because of how draculae would be, it could definitely have a perfect food supply in the wild with these animals ingame, because holy shit all that blood and that'd just spawn MORE bats

[buoyant zenith]

I think they're another underappreciated topic of interest.

[toxic oriole]

A strong food supply

[buoyant zenith]

Wonder if the dinos would stand a little more chance.

[toxic oriole]

Sauropods are large enough to sustain a bunch of bats from what I can see

Vampire bats at least

And a hypothetical shows that the bats would be THRIVING if they were around Sauropods and other larger animals

Well, not entirely hypothetical, if you account for Desmodus rotundus

No idea about any NON-Vampire bats

Though some do exist

One in particular is three times the size of a certain bat, or something

[buoyant zenith]

The poor keepers have to walk in with mesh armour from the medieval ages.

And holy water.

[toxic oriole]

Ah this is the one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulcanops

Burrowing Bat or something

Cant find anything on the fossil of it

Desmodus draculae though, because its a vampire bat related to d. rotundus...
Reconstructing it wouldn't be too difficult

Same genus, different species

Probably some differences

[median relic]

this looks like a monster hunter weapon

[buoyant zenith]

https://tenor.com/view/brad-pitt-troy-achilles-take-it-its-yours-gif-8286866

Also, love goofy looking creatures. Like, just has a tooth that's long on one side and can stab you in the stomach if you're not careful.

[buoyant zenith]

You know, I would also just garner in an aquarium setting, we should totally have filler species like
fossil species of fish and other smaller aquatics alongside the hard hitters.

Obviously it depends on the time period and which country but, yeah.

[plain knoll]

that would be cool

[polar tinsel]

Pleistocene Podium: Cave Hyena

Apex predator of Eurasian steppe to break apart the felid domination in mammalian food chain of PK.

Cave Hyenas were top dogs of their ecosystem, so when we talk about pleistocene it would be a crime to miss out on animal of that significance.

It would offer great diversity of choices along with Cave Bear and Cave Lion, with which it already fits neatly given the Cave name.

Between modern day Spotted Hyenas and plethora of speculative paleoart we could see a whole range of coat variations to liven up the predominantly "brown" roster of Ice Age Europe.

Echoing hyena laughter would be fantastic immerisve tool and mood setter for our icy parks.

(Scientific inaccuracies removed from the post)

That would be it for this one. Until tomorrow 👋

Art by Agustin Diaz.

Previous podium: #1360542295228944414 message

[left spear]

This one is quite controversial around here

Personally i don't mind It i think it's a pretty fair take

Tho if i had to get a hyena i'd go with dino

[polar tinsel]

Oh really, why are they controversial?

[kind oriole]

because they're a subspecies of an extant species. People feel it's a wasted slot if you can have Dinocrocuta and simply replace C.c.spelaea with their neoteny

[plush nacelle]

Mid argument about crocuta being living genera

IMO the best hyena addition

[hollow flower]

Id rather have Dinocrocuta

[plush nacelle]

Just great animal all around, very good fossil record, we understand it a lot, can have nice alt with completely different biome preference, would complete cave trio and be relatively small sized mammal this game is lacking

Something like wild horse. Not something really unique compared to other prehistoric equids, but ultimately versitale and good addition

[polar tinsel]

Ah I see, well I don't personally mind it being subspecies, but I understand why other people do. Dinocrocuta would be great addition on it's own, it just wouldn't work for me, as it's not a pleistocene species

[plush nacelle]

People are now leaning towards cave hyena being separate species

[polar tinsel]

Well, makes little difference to me, but if Cave Bear made it by being seperate species, then I'm all for it

[buoyant zenith]

I didn’t even know it was considered a subspecies. Confused since I thought it had a situation going on like the lions.

But my take? Would love cave hyenas and the Arctic hyenas.

[left spear]

It's even worse since people beg for quagga

Which isn't even a subspecies just a population

So yeah it's pretty dumb

[polar tinsel]

To me, taxonomy isn't as big factor in game with prehistoric animals, as it is in say PZ. Taxonomy of prehistoric animals seems to be less stable, and species change, appear and dissappear seemingly "over night."

I do have my own issues with inclusion of Quagga and say Bluebeuck in this game, from zoo building perspective

I haven't been to many zoos, and I haven't made many zoos with standalone African ungulate habitat. It's either always mixed habitats, or single habitats, but in large sections next to other African ungulate habitats.

So for me to make good use of either Quagga or Bluebuck, I would also need a dozen of other antelopes, gazelles and whatnot extinct and extant, and I don't think that's happening

[shell sonnet]

They can have each other

[ancient dagger]

List #4: Exhibit-sized birds. You know the drill. Crossed out for ones already in-game, underlined for those confirmed/strong evidence of coming into EA, the rest are suggestions. Smaller birds will be included in a comprehensive vivarium list. I settled on 18 as a fair roster size.

Aepyornis
Argentavis
Brontornis
Dodo
Dromornis
Garganornis
Gastornis
Genyornis
Giant Moa
Great Auk
Haast's Eagle
Hesperornis
Kelenken
Kumimanu
Inkayacu
Leptoptilos
Pelagornis
Phorusracos

[buoyant zenith]

I feel that makes more sense.

Anyone have any giant lemurs on their mind for the game? I feel like I could dedicate an entire zoo section to that.

[polar tinsel]

I have both Archaeoindris (Gorilla lemur) and Paleopropithecus (Sloth lemur) on my wishlist

Now I don't know how well they can implement climbing and arboreal lifestyle in the game, so the latter might be out of the question

But Archaeoindris would be such a cool addition, it could be completely terrestrial in game, and still be done justice

[plush nacelle]

It was actually more like orangutan

[buoyant zenith]

Giant Aye-Aye, Pachylemur, Megaladapis, etc.

I could basically put one of each major group. I love how basically the common terms for them are just basically slapping another animal name in front of lemur to describe the type they are. 😆

[plush nacelle]

Archaeoindris would look really clunky on land

[buoyant zenith]

Still amazed orangutans are arboreal. Even though I have seen them in real life.

Anyways, if we got several species, I would love making the mishmash of habitats on Madagascar and with the other hard hitters from the island that became extinct.

[polar tinsel]

I don't know that much about them, was going of off paleorat that usually depicts them on ground. But if that wouldn't fit them, it would be better then to wait for proper climbing update, than to force them in game by any means.

I was thinking something like this would be really cool to see in game and to have in your park

But I guess those depictions are outdated

[proper raven]

species and genus level are very subjective in prehistory, most of the time depending on the researchers.

subspecies is only used in the modern context to distinguish genetically distinct populations of a species, and mostly for conservation agendas

and only reason subspecies applies to Pleistocene animals is because they died recently enough to have a decent genetic analyses

you can't use subspecies on anything beyond Pleistocene since there isn't enough genetic material nor population sampling to deem what is and isn't part of a population, and using morphology only goes so far but its your only choice.

studying extinct animals is also an issue bc it takes time to gather new data, and with some clades being so poorly sampled yea it makes sense why the taxonomy is shaky

but within the context for nonavian dinosaur workers, they prefer to use monotypic genera so that they can futureproof a consistent monophyly within a clade and to make it easier to know which specimen goes to which label

i think in PZ adding subspecies is fine since we know how they look and if some are more unique in appearances and behavior, then yea

idm PK making the quagga a thing bc again its identity is coined to being a famous extinct modern population

[flint sable]

also somewhat important for genetic research too iirc, first extinct subspecies to have its DNA sequenced

[median relic]

https://tenor.com/view/mhw-gif-10904642811316432477

me getting my hands on an odobenocetops skull

[lean hound]

Isn't maip south american?

[inner wedge]

holy shit you're right

brb gotta edit

fixed

enjoy your meiolania

[toxic oriole]

If I remember correctly, Quagga + Wild Horse are planned

And I say + Wild Horse, going off of an extinct Wild Horse species

Not sure which one, but one of thems gonna be the alt for Quagga, or maybe its the other way around

Whatever the case, horses.

[ancient dagger]

I’m hoping for one of the ice age horses

[late swallow]

killer missing animal in Tri/SA

otherwise dope choices

[toxic oriole]

Uhhhh

[inner wedge]

what can i say there are too many to choose from

[toxic oriole]

Wait, is Madagascar part of africa? I don't even know for sure

Or is it just close?

[inner wedge]

i tried to stay within 8 exhibits and 4/5 minis per dlc

[ancient dagger]

So you say minor DLC. You planning on a list for major DLC?

[inner wedge]

i already did em

[ancient dagger]

Ah, I did not see it

[inner wedge]

cutting shringasaurus hurted

[toxic oriole]

Theres plenty of open spaces, thats something I can see

... Okay hold on about Austroraptor

I gotta check something real quick

Its from Argentina

Austroraptor is from South America

I know, right? Quite confusing

And Minmi is a victim of the Giraffatitan paradox

[inner wedge]

i cant believe it i got it wrong again

i hate dinosaurs

[proper raven]

who even would zygomaturus be an alt for?

[sinful coyote]

austro comes from Australis with meaning "southern"

[toxic oriole]

Basically a more similar looking animal and something more complete than the former in the fossil record is used to reconstruct the former animal in question, Brachiosaurus and Giraffatitan are the most prominent examples of this paradox

I want to find a way to make it a term

Like, an official term recognised in Science stuff, but uhhh

Someone might've already gotten to it first

Now that doesnt mean Minmi should be removed from your list

[proper raven]

thats just basic phylogenetic bracketing

[toxic oriole]

Well the way I was handling it was with popular animals, pop culture and such I guess

[proper raven]

and tbf Girafatitan is thought to be a Brachiosaurus species initially anyways

[modern totem]

Australia Pack not having Dromornis is criminal

[late swallow]

Diamantina is in there, its all good

[proper raven]

if you want the prominent meme example, Troodon

[toxic oriole]

still though, Giraffatitan feels like a missed opportunity for alt potential

Yet who knows, maybe it might show up someday

hopefully

... Same case with Torosaurus tbf, though I can wait as long as I have to

If it doesnt, well... Eh

Theres plenty of other fish in the sea

[proper raven]

[toxic oriole]

No biggie

[inner wedge]

giraffatitan would easily be among the free dinos imo

[proper raven]

id think that its in the weird spectrum of too similar to brachio and not too ""unique"" enough to warrant an alt

[toxic oriole]

Morphologically I could see Giraffatitan being different than Brachiosaurus ingame, though someone should make a skin concept for that

[inner wedge]

99% animals that are very similiar to each other that haven't been added yet will be among those

[proper raven]

since the main thing lies in the posture

[toxic oriole]

Yeah I'm aware of the morphological differences between Giraffatitan and Brachiosaurus anyways

[inner wedge]

trust me there have been way worse crimes in the making of this chart

||like not knowing maip was south american||

[toxic oriole]

Could see Mapusaurus in a South America pack too ngl

Only for the reason being it co-existed with Argentinosaurus

And... Wait actually is there anything else unique about Mapusaurus?

[inner wedge]

no

[toxic oriole]

And uhhh... Well Mapu does seem to be a common example for the theory that Carcharodontosaurs were pack hunters or engaged in mob behavior to take down targets

Even going as far as to hunt Argentinosaurus or something

[tough marsh]

Btw do we have a template for this

[toxic oriole]

You could ask fred for it

[hollow flower]

The only way id see mapu getting in is as an alt for Giga

[inner wedge]

i craft them with my bare hands

[tough marsh]

Neat

[toxic oriole]

Dreadnoughtus is the most complete titanosaur, and from what I guess its used often for reconstructing the larger titanosaurs I guess?
Even then, people want it anyways

Like me

I don't see why some people wouldn't want Dread in anyways

[tough marsh]

Malawisaurus would be pretty Unique for a titanosaur

[inner wedge]

he's lame and ugly and called my favourite dinosaur overrated

[toxic oriole]

Could always take Magyarosaurus for some small sauropod representation (Dwarf Titanosaur)

Infact, small sauropods need some love too!

[tough marsh]

I prefer Malowi for small sauropods

[toxic oriole]

Never knew about that one, so its new to me

Oh its another one from Africa huh?

Sweet

[tough marsh]

Yeah

It’s around Europasaurus size

[toxic oriole]

I'll take Aegyptosaurus too just for the sake of popular african genera

Then again, Aegyptosaurus' fossil got destroyed just like Spino and Carch's holotype

Sad it had to happen though

[inner wedge]

shout out to venetoraptor and hupehsuchus, i'm sorry for leaving you out of my aquatic wishlist

[toxic oriole]

it shouldnt have happened, but nothing lasts forever

[shell sonnet]

I got some suggestions for some of these, if you're interested

[inner wedge]

like making two triassic dlc's

[toxic oriole]

Hey fred, ya mind passing over the empty chart?
I'd like to add other stuff

(Template)

[shell sonnet]

Yeah, you don't have Herreasaurus or Eoraptor for one, or anything from their location

[inner wedge]

it's an empty 10x10 square chart just take it and edit with whatever

[inner wedge]

those would come with the free updates