Community Species Suggestions

[sharp dock]

how come I never heard of this game

[coarse inlet]

that's not been my experience with giraffes at all

[fresh ember]

There's something about having the undead and standard fantasy goblinoids in zoos that feels so wrong.

[coarse inlet]

yeah

[hard elbow]

Volunteered at a zoo helping to run a giraffe feeding experience (we had to keep track of how many guests came in so that we could balance how many individual leaves of lettuce each giraffe got)

[coarse inlet]

I have also worked at a zoo and done bts stuff with them and the keepers said they generally are very picky

[plush nacelle]

PK should introduce lettuce enrichment feeding item

[coarse inlet]

true

[plush nacelle]

Just one huge lettuce bowl

[shell sonnet]

Do I have to explain the joke?

[late swallow]

pelt the animals with heads of lettuce

[hard elbow]

It depends on personality tbh

[coarse inlet]

apparently because I do not understand

[hard elbow]

One of ours was such a freak he ate the hair off his brother and his dad's tails

[coarse inlet]

would it be realistic to want the game to eventually give animals personality quirks?

[hard elbow]

Oh yes absolutely. I dunno how far they could go but they could totally do something with that

[hollow furnace]

seems possible

[coarse inlet]

like "this individual will come to investigate keepers who enter the enclosure" or "this one will start fights more often"

[shell sonnet]

sigh the Ivory-billed woodpecker is almost certainly 100 % extinct but there's a long history or people claiming they've seen or heard the animal when it's probably just their senses showing them what they want to find. This is not much different than say Bigfoot, Mothman, or any number cryptids that people claim to have witnessed.

[plush nacelle]

Isnt something like this on backlog?

[late swallow]

think so

[coarse inlet]

yeah but people asking for it to be in the game are acknowledging it's extinct

[plush nacelle]

Genetic traits

One animal is more aggresive

[coarse inlet]

this would be less about genes and more about individual quirks

[plush nacelle]

One is shy

[shell sonnet]

I know but the woodpecker's crytpid like reputation probably has made it better known than it would be otherwise

[quick ore]

the Ivory Billed Woodpecker is in too much of a grey area, I have major doubts the devs would add it considering not even the IUCN lists it as extinct

[slow shoal]

its extinct

[shell sonnet]

Then I recommend the Dusky Seaside Sparrow, whose claim to fame is being the only animal to go extinct at Disneyworld

[quick ore]

what

[slow shoal]

like im sorry but someone would have def seen and captured a good photo of an ivory bill if it was still alive

iNaturalist would jump at the oppertunity

[late swallow]

Cryptozoology be wildin

[quick ore]

of all the recently extinct birds you want to add that one?

[hollow furnace]

I'd love if we could have "curious" and "shy" animals, where curious animals will follow keepers when they come into exhibits to refill feeders/clean dung etc. and check out guests and shy animals will avoid keepers and guests

[shell sonnet]

Why not, dying out at Disneyworld is unique

[quick ore]

barely

it isn't even relevant to the animal itself

[shell sonnet]

Show me one other fauna that did

[quick ore]

there are better options that are interesting in their own right

[late swallow]

and how is that not relevant?

[quick ore]

also I doubt the game would even be able to mention this fact

[slow shoal]

im ngl i dont think a normal looking songbird will make it in

[coarse inlet]

I think that recently extinct species that closely resemble modern ones aren't that interesting in the context of this game

[late swallow]

well, there goes Megaloceros

[quick ore]

aside from some exceptions I agree

[slow shoal]

the obvious choices for RE birds are Moas, Dodos, Passenger Pigeons, Carolina Parakeets, Ivory Billed Woodpeckers, and the Hawaiian O'o

[autumn plover]

And the mammoth and rhino

[quick ore]

for big names like Aurochs and Quagga it's fine but this songbird is a literal glupshitto

[autumn plover]

they're just the modern animals with hair

[shell sonnet]

Also Ursus, Panthera, and it means we can't get Varanus

[quick ore]

the mole ducks too

[autumn plover]

really 90% of the current Cenozoics should go

[quick ore]

or Xenicibis

[autumn plover]

bear and cats can go

Lets just keep the Paraceratherium and Smilodon

[coarse inlet]

don't be assholes

it's very clear what I'm referring to in this context

[autumn plover]

I mean it's an odd statement to make

[toxic oriole]

Not once have I ever heard someone call the Kauai O'o a glupshitto

[coarse inlet]

no it's not????

[late swallow]

We're just going off of your opinion

[coarse inlet]

seriously, stop being assholes about this, it's not funny and just makes you seem smug

[quick ore]

I didnt

I am saying

[coarse inlet]

you KNOW that's not what I'm talking about

[quick ore]

that songbird

[toxic oriole]

Ivy I don't get it

Why do you see the Kauai O'o as a glupshitto?

[quick ore]

what

[toxic oriole]

Whats so "basic" about it?

[quick ore]

I DONT

[toxic oriole]

oh

[quick ore]

I NEVER SAID THAT

[toxic oriole]

Which one were you speaking about then?

[quick ore]

i was talking about this thing

[toxic oriole]

I just got here, so I don't know whats up

[slow shoal]

guys i think yall need to calm down lmao

this isnt a super serious discussion

[late swallow]

so it's okay to be pedantic as fuck about something I say, but not for you, got it

[toxic oriole]

I've never heard of this before

This is new to me

[coarse inlet]

people just suddenly started talking really condescending because I said that I dont think we need a bunch of recently extinct stuff that's not very distinct

[slow shoal]

thats fair ig, tho i think its inevitable most of the picks will resemble modern animals, especially in the birds

[shell sonnet]

What exactly is distinct to be fair; the Passenger Pigeon is just a pigeon, the Carolina Parakeet is just a parrot, etc. Still think we should get them.

[coarse inlet]

we're working with 500 million years of stuff here I dont think a random passerine with no distinguishing traits is a great call

[quick ore]

that's my point exactly

[coarse inlet]

there are SO MANY weird extinct birds

[toxic oriole]

At one point in time, the Bald Eagle very well could've been wiped out, but it got saved
If it werent for that, we'd not be seeing the eagle again

[shell sonnet]

Yeah, the standards for Recently extinct are much lower than the rest

[slow shoal]

i mean yes but for recently extinct there is like the big 3 i feel pretty confident in

at least for vivariums

[coarse inlet]

Dodo, moa, elephant bird feel like the obvious ones

[slow shoal]

ye dodo and moa are ofc gonna be in

[toxic oriole]

Island Gigantism Pigeon
Naturally large flightless birds

[coarse inlet]

Passenger pigeon makes sense because of historical significance

I dont think we need any more tbh

[slow shoal]

but for smaller birds i think Passenger Pigeons, Carolina Parakeets, and maybe Ivory bills if we want another bird would round it out well

[shell sonnet]

I actually think either moa or aepyornis; though I support the Moa

[coarse inlet]

they're very different animals

[late swallow]

North or south island

[late swallow]

yes and also no

[toxic oriole]

Assuming the Ivory Bill Woodpecker had completely disappeared off the planet a while ago, yes

[quick ore]

tbh the elephant bird is likely to get in but depending on how many species can be included in the dlc I can imagine a scenario where it gets cut because of it being similar to moas

[shell sonnet]

They cover the same niche of large flightless island dwelling bird

[coarse inlet]

aside from being large herbivorous palaeognaths their general appearance is very different

[slow shoal]

if we get moas we likely will get multiple species

[quick ore]

the elephant bird will definitely get in unless the roster for the RE dlc is too small to include it

[shell sonnet]

North, I've wanted Dinornis novaezealandiae for years

[slow shoal]

ngl i feel the moa should def be a priority over the elephant bird

[quick ore]

agreed

[coarse inlet]

so me saying that we shouldn't get animals almost indistinguishable from modern animals got everyone mad but everyone is now saying that a 1 ton mostly blind behemoth of a bird is not distinct enough???

[quick ore]

no?

[shell sonnet]

It's just a matter of space

Let's imagine there's only ten slots for habitat RE

[coarse inlet]

ok, a moa species, elephant bird, aurochs, thylacine, horse, what else would there need to be?

[shell sonnet]

This is a pretty diverse list

Great Auk
Dodo
Thylacine
North Island giant moa
Aurrochs
Quagga
Larger Malagasy hippopotamus
Bluebuck
Chinese Gharial or Horned crocodile
Rodrigues giant tortoise

[late swallow]

Not at all. they are distinct animals, yes. but they also fall into the same interesting niche

[quick ore]

*Aurochs

[toxic oriole]

I need to know, is the Rodrigues Giant Tortoise the Pinta Island one?

[coarse inlet]

hippos are not more distinct that aepyornis

[toxic oriole]

Or am I thinking of a different giant tortoise?

[coarse inlet]

that's silly

[quick ore]

aint no way they would add the hippo as the rep for madagascar over the elephant bird OR a lemur

[late swallow]

tortoise could be any of the Mascarene tortoises imo

i couldn't pick a single sp. in my list last night

[quick ore]

pinta island tortoise isn't even truly extinct

[late swallow]

differnet tort

[coarse inlet]

also great auk is definitly a vivarium species

[slow shoal]

i should prolly make my own RE list eventually

[silver steeple]

Nah

[silver steeple]

You should

[quick ore]

if dodo can be an exhibit animal so can the auk

[late swallow]

Pinguinus is certainly Vivarium

[shell sonnet]

We actually have a stuffed specimen for Cylindraspis vosmaeri

[slow shoal]

also ngl i dont think Auks are getting in until aquatic things are added

[late swallow]

Dodo cannot

[silver steeple]

^

[coarse inlet]

https://www.dimensions.com/element/great-auk-pinguinus-impennis

[late swallow]

yes and i fucking hate it

[silver steeple]

God that's such a shit taxidermy lmfao

[coarse inlet]

they werent very big and would need specialized movement, they should be a vivarium species

otherwise they arent gonna get the kind of diving and other behavior that makes them work well

[shell sonnet]

In terms of the game, yes they are. After all we already have a long-necked, flightless, long-legged theropod in the game and the Moa would be the second one

[plush nacelle]

I mean, if from blurred roadmap that 4 letter dodo-looking name is indeed dodo and light colors represent vivariums....

[late swallow]

have yall seen how small a Raphus is

[toxic oriole]

This, right?

[late swallow]

they were like 75cm

[quick ore]

I feel like people take the precedents set by the vivarium and exhibit animals in the game rn too strictly. The majority of smaller exhibit animals we have seen have been non avian dinosaurs and they are built differently than flightless birds. Using them as a metric to gauge if flightless birds or smaller mammals can be exhibit animals feels like a mistake.

[coarse inlet]

it's not that the auk is just small, it's small AND specialized with how it moves

[toxic oriole]

Huh, so this was the Dodo's closest relative?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodrigues_solitaire

Or is this outdated?

[quick ore]

specialized how

[late swallow]

yes, and very cool

[quick ore]

because it dives?

[coarse inlet]

it's a diving bird

how is that not specialized

we don't even have jumping for habitat species rn

or any underwater movementy

[quick ore]

I don't think a diving animal is off the table, none of the species we have had so far have needed it as an option yet

[plush nacelle]

Auk is weird, because it is exactly as big as simosuchus

[shell sonnet]

Jumping is down the line for U18

[plush nacelle]

One is vertical and one horizontal

[quick ore]

that is far from the only difference between them though

[toxic oriole]

How do they even decide what to put in vivariums?

[coarse inlet]

I'm also basing this on similar animals in zoos and aquariums today

[coarse inlet]

size and need for specialized animations and locomotion

[late swallow]

There's also the consideration that we're getting a few sizes of vivaria - one's even got a square meterage of 96m²

[coarse inlet]

similar sized penguins are kept in enclosures resembling the large vivariums we know are coming

[toxic oriole]

Oculudentavis could be a potential vivarium species, though because of the varying bones of it that are different from one another...

Well

I have no idea how that would work

[coarse inlet]

absolutely not lmao

for like 3 different reasons

[toxic oriole]

Trapped in amber, at the least

[coarse inlet]

pretty sure there's one that's way bigger than that

[toxic oriole]

Or at least one fossil of it was

[coarse inlet]

the amber was acquired unethically, it's not even a dinosaur, it's it's WAY too small

[shell sonnet]

Makes you wonder if it wasn't added already, if Taco would be considered for the vivirarium

[quick ore]

this is the exact thing I am talking about

it isnt just how an animal may fit in regards to size and movement

it also has to do with its popularity

[coarse inlet]

what

[quick ore]

if a species is on the verge of being large enough to be an exhibit animal the devs will probably be more likely to make it one

[coarse inlet]

Compsognathus is one of the most popular dinosaurs and it's a vivarium species

[quick ore]

because making it a vivarium species would likely upset people

Compy was Small

[coarse inlet]

that's completely bonkers

[quick ore]

that is its whole thing

[coarse inlet]

they've never said ANYTHING like that

[quick ore]

and not only that its babies would be miniscule

I never said they did?

im speculating

[toxic oriole]

So what if both species of Oculudentavis are too small, there could be some of those TINY vivariums if they do decide to make tiny ones

[coarse inlet]

Oculudentavis is a problematic taxon in very many ways, no reason to include it

[slow shoal]

would mekosuchus be too old to be considered for recently extinct

[late swallow]

no

[shell sonnet]

did it die before 0 CE

[flint sable]

definitely recently extinct

[coarse inlet]

unclear

[coarse inlet]

but since the arboreal idea is disproven I dont think it's work including

[late swallow]

straight up says something
backpedals, says 'i'm speculating'

[plush nacelle]

Small dwarf croc still fun

[flint sable]

IMO its still a pretty great pick

australian cenozoic rep and crocodillian rep too

[shell sonnet]

Eh... I think I'd rather get Voay or Hanyusuchus for croc rep

[plush nacelle]

Would probably prefer mesozoic small croc like stangerochampsa

[coarse inlet]

yeah at the end of the day I think 10 recently extinct animals would already be a lot

[slow shoal]

ok but meko is also arboreal

[coarse inlet]

sadly that idea has been disproven

[toxic oriole]

I heard something about this Crocodilian that got wiped out during the uhhh... Last I checked, GOLD RUSH?

[slow shoal]

it doesnt really overlap with a lot of other croc picks

[toxic oriole]

I forgot which area it was at

[late swallow]

i could see more, if only considering more vivarium species

there's so many cool tiny fuckers

[toxic oriole]

Or was it the Bronze age?

I don't remember

Might've been in China for all I remember

[coarse inlet]

yeah but there's so many cool tiny ones in the prior 500 million years

[late swallow]

also true

[silver steeple]

Still really curious how these are even in the same genus ngl

[late swallow]

Juramaia when

[flint sable]

Hanyusuchus

[flint sable]

sometime during the 1600s iirc, was related to Gharials

[toxic oriole]

Could also be a good RE DLC pick

But uhhh

No idea if people are gonna be like: "ITS NOT UNIQUE!!!!"

[flint sable]

the last fully marine crocodile also died out in the holocene

Ikangogavialis

from Woodlark Island

[plush nacelle]

It is so obscure

Isnt it?

[flint sable]

very

[plush nacelle]

I tried once learn about it

[flint sable]

it also very likely doesnt belong to Ikangogavialis since its a late miocene south ameircan taxa

[plush nacelle]

But there is absolutely nothing

[late swallow]

hold on i gotta do the american thing

[flint sable]

its probably just indeterminate gavialid or whatever

[late swallow]

'anything but the metric system'

[shell sonnet]

I mean if there's just five RE habitat animals, than Dodo, Aurochs, Moa, Quagga and Mau's horse are probably going to be it

[flint sable]

either way, holocene marine gharial did exist

[shell sonnet]

Shit and thylacine

[flint sable]

aurochs instead of thylacine is wildin

I was gonna say lmao

[shell sonnet]

Strange though it might seem, Aurochs is probably the better known of the two

[late swallow]

This house is just north of 96m²

[for reference on the 8x12m vivarium]

[coarse inlet]

that isn't even the biggest vivarium size is it?

[hollow furnace]

largest we know of

[coarse inlet]

I thought there was a bigger one

[silver steeple]

Late but Quagga and Horse are the same "slot" for this, so you could easily tuck Thylacine in there

[steep tulip]

Having a RE dlc without thylacine is like having an hotdog without bun

[late swallow]

this is where i say i eat them cold from the package sometimes

[flint sable]

no

more like having hotdog without hotdog

wait no

having mustard and ketchup without the hotdog

I dont want to hear anyone say they chug ketchup or mustard from the bottle

[hollow furnace]

A RE DLC without thylacine is like a hotdog without the dog

[late swallow]

classic midwest struggle meal, Mustard Sandwich

[shell sonnet]

You don't need a bun to enjoy a hotdog

[silver steeple]

You don't

But it's not common

And it's not really as good in the opinion of most

[shell sonnet]

I mean to be frank (heh), I would put Thylacine after the Dodo, the Aurochs, and the Moa as must have recently extinct animals.

[flint sable]

ok thats kind of a hot take but not unreasonable

ive heard worse takes

me personally thylacine and horse are like my

top 2 picks for RE DLC

[silver steeple]

I'd personally put it above Aurochs

[flint sable]

and thylacine is in my top 5 for literally everything to be added to PK probably

[shell sonnet]

As the graph above shows, the Aurochs is probably better known globally (which is really my only reason for putting it second because I otherwise don't find it that interesting)

[flint sable]

what was that big spike in 2024?

[shell sonnet]

Hell if I know

[flint sable]

actually how do I compare google searches

[shell sonnet]

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2024-08-21 2025-08-21&q=%2Fm%2F07h0r,%2Fm%2F0gvrx,%2Fm%2F0zyr&hl=en-US

[flint sable]

k

also for me its showing uhhh

thylacine as higher (blue)

than aurochs (red)

[shell sonnet]

I changed somethings around

[flint sable]

this is worldwide over the past 5 years

[shell sonnet]

I added in Quagga and Moa for comparison

[late swallow]

show the search criteria

[tame thorn]

Thylacine had had a lot of popularity because of ark. So it's no surprise it gets more searches

[flint sable]

???

thylacine isnt even in Ark

thats Thylacoleo

[shell sonnet]

Ah.... you've selected them as search term not as a category

[tame thorn]

Of my bad

[late swallow]

Search Terms vs Animals

[tame thorn]

I misread

[late swallow]

idk, could be a more accurate representation

[tame thorn]

Morning brain... Thylacine recently had an anniversary and was very publicly advertised in Australia this year

[late swallow]

to be expected

[flint sable]

also true

thylacine has a very well remembered extinction date whereas aurochs does not

[tame thorn]

Yeah

[flint sable]

so thats an advantage

[late swallow]

small aside: most of the Anzu searches are not about the animal

[shell sonnet]

Search terms capture less than the topics do

[late swallow]

its about YTTD lol

[late swallow]

fuckin google man, fucked up

[tame thorn]

It's also a very significantly recognised human made extinction and used for environmental awareness

[flint sable]

also cool thing, this year they published an account of a still living person who remembered seeing the last thylacine when they were still a little girl

[shell sonnet]

it's why you can't type in T-Rex by itself because you capture both the animal and the band; you have to select a topic

[flint sable]

which I think is really neat

since pretty much that exact same discussion came up a long time ago in #science-chat about that same possibility occuring still

give it 2 decades however, and the thylacine will no longer be in living memory

[steep tulip]

A lot of people call it tasmanian tiger too

[flint sable]

true

[shell sonnet]

That's why the topic is better; you get both of those searches

[flint sable]

#science-chat message

discussion about that same thing

[late swallow]

insignificant in this case

[steep tulip]

I see

[late swallow]

Recommendations

[steep tulip]

Tho I feel like with auroch is kinda cheating

Cuz like wym by topic

[shell sonnet]

Another reason not to use the search term, it doesn't capture different spellings in other languages

[late swallow]

yeah let me switch to B. primigenius

[steep tulip]

Aurochs are inherently tied with domestic cows

If domestic cows are the topic aurochs can easily be mixed with them

[late swallow]

i get to pick search term or get switched over to Aurochs/Zebu/Cattle

im fairly certain when people search Bos primigenius, they mean B. p. primigenius

[shell sonnet]

I don't think that's 100% the case; Poland, Russia and Ukraine have more searches for the Auroch over the Dodo because they were the last places it lived in. I think being stuck in the Anglosphere can bias one's opinion.

[late swallow]

it sure fuck can

[flint sable]

makes sense

[steep tulip]

Ig true
Tho not exactly in the anglosphere, here aurochs have a weird name and thylacines are definitely more often brought up

[late swallow]

B. p. namadicus and B. p. mauritanicus may also be the subspecies referred to when people search Aurochs, but B. p. taurus is more likely to be searched under 'Cow' or 'Cattle' or even Bos taurus

[shell sonnet]

And that would be where?

[steep tulip]

Central europe more or less
Don't want to say exactly where

[late swallow]

Aurochsen > Aurochs as a plural

[coarse inlet]

Quite frankly I think pulling up google searches is pointless and petty

[neat iris]

It’s like any dinosaur game without T-Rex

[quick ore]

what

how

I can sorta get the Dodo and the Moa

but the Aurochs?

that's just an extinct cow

the Thylacine is so much more distinct than it

nothing like it remains today

[coarse inlet]

It’s pretty iconic but not as distinct or necessary as a thylacine for sure

[quick ore]

yeah

[toxic oriole]

Plus its had some revival attempts

[shell sonnet]

It's better known? Makes sense as a reason

[quick ore]

the Aurochs is Not better known

[coarse inlet]

Thylacine are pretty well known

[hollow furnace]

False, Aurochs is necessary as a source of baby cows I can use for live feeders

[shell sonnet]

(I do prefer Thylacine over Auroch)

[toxic oriole]

Aurochs has plenty of those recreations as actual animals

Well

[coarse inlet]

But going around in circles arguing about this for days is exhausting can we talk about something else

[toxic oriole]

Cows meant to resemble them

[hollow furnace]

no

[shell sonnet]

Do i need to point to Google trends?

[coarse inlet]

Please stop with the fucking google trends

Oh my god

[hollow furnace]

1 million more recently extinct debates

[toxic oriole]

For one, the Tauros Cattle, which is a mix of a few other Aurochs...

Wait actually

What would you even call the cattle?

[digital pendant]

i agree, yet its perpetuate it as well by the people who complain about it. Its just discussions for the sake of it when this is meant to be a mere suggestions post

[toxic oriole]

Alright theres the Heck Cattle, one of those cow species created via backbreeding

Meant to resemble Aurochs

[coarse inlet]

Here’s a suggestion:

[toxic oriole]

Yes

[hollow furnace]

Named by christian moms

[toxic oriole]

Hell Cattle?

.
COWS FROM HELL!?

[hollow furnace]

No, it's heck cattle

cows from heck

[coarse inlet]

Sivatherium, Daeodon, Synthetoceras, and other interesting artiodactyls

[digital pendant]

tbf heck cattle dont even ressemble aurochs that was a terrible attempt at bringing them back, their background as to who made them doest help tbh

[quick ore]

google trends aren't some be all end all for gauging popularity or how well known something is

[toxic oriole]

Though there are others, yes?

The uhhh

Tauros cattle or, Tauros programe

Isnt that one the best one so far?

[coarse inlet]

Yeah and it just feels smug and petty

[flint sable]

Tauros cattle look remarkabley like Aurochs in certain individuals

[digital pendant]

the tauros project hasnt reached its conclusion therefore is not worth mentioning it as a final result

[toxic oriole]

And yet

Even if its not finalized

You gotta admit that the results are promising

[flint sable]

except not quite as large, but even then, the resemblance is already remarkable

[coarse inlet]

American camels

[shell sonnet]

It's not, but it is better than just assuming something because it seems right.

[toxic oriole]

... ironically enough it'd actually fit Colossals description for de-extinction, the only one that'd fit sadly, but I aint gonna open up that bag of beans any further than this

So uhhh

[shell sonnet]

Any way I'm tired of talking about Auroch

[toxic oriole]

What other animal would you like to chat about?

[coarse inlet]

There’s so many cool giraffes

Or perissodactyls

[hollow furnace]

Auroch more like Borach

[coarse inlet]

Or weird shit that isn’t around anymore like oreodonts

Notoungulates

Litopterns

[hollow furnace]

Really hope we get some fun ungluate hoofstock

[coarse inlet]

Yeah

[hollow furnace]

Just 'basic' zoo animals

But extinct

[coarse inlet]

And weird stuff

[fresh ember]

Synthetoceras is an easy choice on that front.

[hollow furnace]

def

[coarse inlet]

There’s so many weird herbivorous mammals that would be great for that niche

[toxic oriole]

Hmmm...

[hollow furnace]

Wonder if you could do some other protoceratids as an alt

Like Syndyoceras or Kyptoceras

[coarse inlet]

That’d rule

[toxic oriole]

I'll say we could use some goats

[coarse inlet]

True

Myotragus would be a good terrarium species what other caprines are there

[toxic oriole]

I know peeps would like to mention Myotragus

Well theres this one
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrington's_mountain_goat

Harringtons Mountain Goat

[hollow furnace]

Pyrenean Ibex

[toxic oriole]

Co-existed with a Giant Ground Sloth or something at its time

And 24 others

Smaller than todays mountain goats

Would be nice for a goat feeding section, a local zoo has that

They have a goat section, and they let you feed or pet the goats

[coarse inlet]

Euceratherium is a cool caprine

[shell sonnet]

Do we have any skeletons any good skeletons of Prolibytherium. What I'm finding isn't that impressive

[silver steeple]

There's a braincase and atlas from the pakistan sp

But I can't find much more than that besides the stuff you sent

[coarse inlet]

which of the giant pigs would be better, Metridiochoerus (middle) or Notochoerus (right)?

[quick ore]

neither

[silver steeple]

Just from this alone I feel either is fine

[quick ore]

Celebochoerus 💯

[silver steeple]

Lmfao

[coarse inlet]

ooooo

yeah that rules

[quick ore]

frrrr

best true pig they could add

[silver steeple]

Woah that's pretty impressive actually

[quick ore]

ikr it's such an underrated species

and it represents a location that would otherwise likely go unused

[silver steeple]

Yeah not much else to use from the Philippines, though Indonesia has a couple things that might show up, idk about Sulawesi specifically tho

[coarse inlet]

found some great hoofstock. Climacoceras, could be a good two alt animal

Ampelomeryx ginsburgi
Triceromeryx conquensis

[left spear]

For that area the gold mine is probably Flores

[quick ore]

none are particularly likely to get added though besides the tortoise

but I still hope some are, especially the pig

[silver steeple]

Pretty much yeah

[coarse inlet]

Shansitherium is another cool giraffe relative with 3 good alts

Tetrameryx shuleri

[quick ore]

god I NEED a pronghorn in the game

such a cool group with an interesting history

[silver steeple]

I could see them doing S. luzonensis if they do Stegodon, but they're probably more likely to do floriensis as a dwarf alt if anything

[quick ore]

sorry im really tired and I read "more likely to do floriensis" as something completely different 😭

talking about wanting something from flores is a mine field for avoiding That species

[silver steeple]

I think its hilarious that most of the good hoofstock choices are antilocaprids and giraffoids

[silver steeple]

Lmfao

Human Kingdom time

[coarse inlet]

there's some others

[silver steeple]

There are a few

[coarse inlet]

but I was looking at those rn

camelids

[silver steeple]

But most of the ones people want are from those two groups

[left spear]

Tbf a Shire exhibit would be cool

[silver steeple]

Are camels normally regarded as hoofstock?

Idk I personally view them differently

Like rhinos

[quick ore]

what? 😭

[quick ore]

I mean they're domesticated so they are probably even easier to keep than other hoofstock even

[silver steeple]

Yeah I guess they are

[quick ore]

I once interned at a zoo and the camels were housed in a barn

[left spear]

Human kingdom is inevitable, do not resist

[silver steeple]

Technically any animal with hooves are hoofstock

[coarse inlet]

IDK but the vibe on Aepycamelus and Stenomylus works for the vibe of hoofstock

[quick ore]

Perissodactyls:

[silver steeple]

So hippos and rhinos would count as well

Feels weird to call them such

But they are

[coarse inlet]

also litopterns

[quick ore]

most chaotic animal to include under hoofstock would be proboscideans lol

[silver steeple]

I hate that that actually would apply to notoungulates

[silver steeple]

They don't have hooves tho

[coarse inlet]

I can do you one better

[silver steeple]

Nor are they related to ungulates

So by neither definition should they be hoofstock

[coarse inlet]

behold hoofstock

[quick ore]

that's what would make them chaotic

[silver steeple]

Lmao

[left spear]

Do hooved ancestors count?

[silver steeple]

They aren't chaotic, they just don't fit

[quick ore]

fair

[silver steeple]

Probably not?

I know where you're going with that question

[quick ore]

whales are Not hoofstock

[coarse inlet]

no Patrick, a blue whale is not hoofstock

[silver steeple]

Lmfao

[left spear]

Shame, can't shadowdrop Livy in a Hoofstock update 😔

[quick ore]

I think it's cool that ungulates will be represented by perissodactyls and non-ruminant artiodactyls moreso than ruminants

[silver steeple]

Some definitions of hoofstock also only apply to ruminants + horses

[quick ore]

the opposite of irl zoos

[plush nacelle]

There still will be more ruminants

[silver steeple]

That's probably only for farms though

[plush nacelle]

I think

[coarse inlet]

Xiphodon is another good weird ungulate with hoofstock vibes

[quick ore]

really?

I doubt we will end up with more ruminants

[plush nacelle]

Megaloceros is in

Bison, aurochs

People demand sivatherium, pronghorn

[quick ore]

ok but non ruminant ungulates have soooo many options

[left spear]

Wait would Daedon count as Hoofstock?

[quick ore]

and so many are going to be highly requested

[silver steeple]

Technically yeah

Not really what people think of tho

[quick ore]

-SANU's
-brontotheres
-chalicotheres
-oreodonts
-equids

[silver steeple]

I assume that's meant to be South American Notoungulates?

[slim flare]

Bison bison bison bison

[quick ore]

no

South American Native Ungulates

it is a real acronym

[silver steeple]

That's

Just describing Notoungulates

[quick ore]

no

[coarse inlet]

not it's not

[quick ore]

SANU's are polyphyletic

[coarse inlet]

there;s like 5 orders

[slim flare]

Huh

[quick ore]

is this not common knowledge

[coarse inlet]

Pyrotheres, Notoungulates, Astapotheres, Litopterns, and Xenungulates

[silver steeple]

I thought they all were in the same group tbh

[quick ore]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_American_native_ungulates

nope

[left spear]

Which one

[coarse inlet]

they've been grouped as Meridiungulates but I think that's polyphyletic

[silver steeple]

Well at least Notoungulates and Litopterns

I knew Astrapotheres were their own deal more or less

[slim flare]

Latifrons and priscus

[silver steeple]

Don't think I've ever heard of xenungulata tbh

[left spear]

Latinfrons as the main species i take

[silver steeple]

I knew of Pyrotheres in passing

[coarse inlet]

apparently a 2024 morphological study indicated monophyly for meridiungulates

[left spear]

Pyrotherium itself is cool

[toxic oriole]

Fire Beast?

I think you mean FIRE.

[slim flare]

Why?

[toxic oriole]

Not COOL.

FIRE.

[coarse inlet]

Seems like Litopterns and Notoungulates are in fact likely close relatives

[silver steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/captain-holt-brooklyn-nine-nine-brooklyn99-captain-raymond-holt-andre-braugher-gif-13945912

[slim flare]

“Morphological” 💩

[silver steeple]

Either way I was using the wrong term

So now I must commit seppuku

[coarse inlet]

Xenungulates are poorly known by science so it makes sense

[silver steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-im-done-time-to-go-gif-18465294

[quick ore]

here's an idea; top 10 most wanted SANU's in PK (can be either exhibit or terrarium species)

[silver steeple]

When ya ain't got dna there isn't much else to do

[coarse inlet]

that's the only way to do it for the other three orders besides litopterns and notoungulates (which are grouped together on molecular based studies too)

[slim flare]

Lito and Noto are the only ones that matter anyway

[coarse inlet]

Astrapotheres rule tho

[silver steeple]

Astrapotheres

[slim flare]

They’re like technically outside of odd-toed ungulates

[coarse inlet]

which?

[slim flare]

Both

[silver steeple]

Still wild to me that we have Antartic astrapotheres

[slim flare]

Although only in the kinda bs “if they were alive today they’d be odd-toed ungulates”

[silver steeple]

Until we did DNA studies sure

[coarse inlet]

maybe

[slim flare]

No?

[coarse inlet]

their placement has jumped around a lot

[silver steeple]

Yeah

They aren't closely related to perrissodactyls

[sharp dock]

you are aware that regular people dont call it thylacine right

[silver steeple]

Like they're outside of perissodactylomorpha

[sharp dock]

oh nvm it has been already pointed out

[silver steeple]

They're part of pan-perissodactyla sure

But that's not the same thing

[coarse inlet]

probably

[silver steeple]

I mean it can't be

Perissodactyla sits within it

[plush nacelle]

Question is hard

[silver steeple]

By definition they aren't the same thing

[coarse inlet]

no I mean they probably are pan-perissodactyls

there's apparently still arguments going on

[plush nacelle]

I guess toxodon and macrauchenia

• something from miocene, which lived alongside kelenken

[coarse inlet]

it'd be cool if Macrauchenia had different noses in different skins

like one that's saiga like and one that's moose like

[silver steeple]

I guess they could

I don't know if I would really vibe with that though

[plush nacelle]

For terrarium interatherium - herbivorous otter mimic and miocochilius - insectivore

[coarse inlet]

Astrapotherium magnus would be great

[silver steeple]

I could see them maybe give a different nose to Xenorhino if they did it as an alt

[coarse inlet]

why?

[plush nacelle]

Lets not forget nose structure would need to be animated so it is either this or that probably

[silver steeple]

Just personally would rather they pick one thing and stick to it with something like that

Elasmo horn is different cause its like old vs new interpretation

[slim flare]

Why?

[silver steeple]

Different environmental needs call for different things

[slim flare]

What different environment?

[silver steeple]

Xenorhino was basically tropical

Mac lived in the colder steppes to the south

[coarse inlet]

so a mooselike nose makes more sense for Xenorhino?

[slim flare]

?

They likely had a very similar oralnasal tissue

[silver steeple]

Probably

Could still make them different anyway

Not a ton of visual distinction between the two as is

[slim flare]

Make Xeno have more vibrant patterning and colours

[silver steeple]

On a 1 ton mammal?

[slim flare]

Yeah?

[silver steeple]

I mean I guess

[plush nacelle]

Give it rhino like skin 🗿

[outer moth]

At best I could see a Quagga/Thylacine esque stripes

[slim flare]

Giant eland moment

[outer moth]

Mammals aren't known for being vibrant

[plush nacelle]

Like that one freaky moropus art

[coarse inlet]

except this one

[outer moth]

The most vibrant there ever was
And he's still standing (yeah yeah yeah)

[coarse inlet]

hate it

[silver steeple]

Btw here's a range map of Xenorhinotherium (Yellow) and Macrauchenia (Red)

[slim flare]

This and the Glypto range maps are really weird

[outer moth]

Wait, did any of them make it to the US?

[slim flare]

Considering how disconnected they are

[quick ore]

1. Macrauchenia
2. Toxodon
3. Granastrapotherium
4. Xenorhinotherium
5. Homalodotherium
6. Thoatherium
7. Hegetotherium (Vivarium)
8. Pyrotherium
9. Protypotherium (Vivarium)
10. Carodnia

[silver steeple]

I would presume Xenorhino almost certainly covered the whole north half of SA but most of that isn't fossil bearing

[plush nacelle]

So basically arid environments

[coarse inlet]

I just remembered that a certain guy thinks chalicotheres are lemurs which makes this even funnier

[slim flare]

Wikipedia implies Xeno was more a browser than Macr as a grazer, but I’d need to read the literature.

[silver steeple]

I think that would make a lot of sense given the environments both are in

[quick ore]

side note I think Homalodotherium is underrated as an addition and I love that ungulates copied giant ground sloths twice

also Thoatherium feels like a great "filler" small ungulate to add to exhibits

[coarse inlet]

yeah that was on my list too

[silver steeple]

Anyway time to come up with a funny list for the 7th time this week

[slim flare]

Toxodon
Macrauchenia
???
Profit

[silver steeple]

1. Macrauchenia (Xenorhino alt)
2. Toxodon (Mixotodon alt)
3. Astrapotherium
4. Granstrapotherium
5. Pyrotherium
6. Trigonostylops
7. Cramauchenia
8. Tetramerorhinus
9. Mesotherium
10. Homalodotherium

Whoops sent too early

[sharp dock]

u forgot the mixotoxodon alt

[slim flare]

Where’s the Mixotoxodon alt

[sharp dock]

Mixotoxodon gang, assemble

we shall teach this kid a lesson 🗞️

[slim flare]

https://external-preview.redd.it/-FeWkSNPbriZXRqOEXI-f2Iow2VdyrOVgIWpQbx90OI.jpg?auto=webp&s=505486fe1404c8daf0c56accfd32dce8ce284c4a

[silver steeple]

Genuinely I was sitting there thinking "Wasn't there a good potential alt for Toxodon" and just couldn't remember the name for the life of me

[quick ore]

I'm shocked that you didn't include Homalodotherium

[silver steeple]

Any particular reason?

I don't know a whole ton about most SA ungulates

Oh weird

Chalicothere convergent lad

Lemme go update the list then lol

Also what the hell was in the water of the Santa Cruz formation

The amount of fauna from there is insane

[inner wedge]

it just came to my mind, but what if we get marine AND aerial animals in the same expansion?

[shell sonnet]

That's disappointing; it's such a strange animal (even amongst the Giraffoids) that it feels worth including but I find it harder to justify if there's not much material (having the cervical vertebrates and the femurs would be a big help)

[magic grotto]

Honestly, I'd love to see DLC packs themed around different paleontological research sites/fossil sites around the world, featuring animals and plants from those sites as well. One idea I've been brewing for a while is the one below:

The La Brea Animal Pack

• New Animals: Aenocyon dirus, Camelops hesternus, Capromeryx minor, Equus occidentalis, Mammuthus columbi, Miracinonyx trumani, Nothrotheriops shastensis, Platygonus compressus, and Teratornis merriami.
• New Foliage: Amaranth, Arroyo Willow, Clustered Tarweed, Coast Live Oak, Desert Globemallow, False Rosinweed, Hackberry, Knotweed, Nuttall's Scrub Oak, Sacaton Grass, Valley Oak, Water-crowfoot, Western Blue-eyed Grass, White Alder, and Winterfat.
• New Building Theme: Ice Age
• New Map: La Brea Tar Pits (United States)

[short rover]

We already have an ice age building theme tbh

[coarse inlet]

Stone Age but yeah

[magic grotto]

Yeah, I figured that an Ice Age theme could be possibly made but in a different style than the Stone Age theme 😅

[late swallow]

What would it be like

[short rover]

Yeah I don’t think a theme like that would differentiate itself enough

Maybe more stuff added to the Stone Age theme if anything

But I don’t really think the dlcs will be anything as specific as particular locations or sites

I’m guessing broad continent or period dlcs if anything

Or categories like “aquatics” or “Ariels”

[coarse inlet]

A Cleveland-Lloyd dlc in that vein would be great

• Diplocodus
• Camptosaurus
• Ceratosaurus
• Tanycolagreus
• Marshosaurus

[hollow flower]

Diplo and Cerato in dlc would be quite the choice

[toxic oriole]

Then again, either of those two could be base game in one of those Early Access Updates, though its speculative

[coarse inlet]

I mean if you want to sell DLC a big name or two helps

[shell sonnet]

Tanycolagreus over Ornitholestes is definitely a choice

Yeah, yeah location

[plush nacelle]

Diplodocus is definitely DLC material

[late swallow]

Free sales, just like Giga

[shell sonnet]

Dippy is up there with Giga and Therizino in one of the few big names we don't have have in the game

[late swallow]

Don't worry tho! You can have 6 other Morrison Sauropods!

[hollow flower]

I feel Diplo and Cera are fairly quintessential base game animals

[shell sonnet]

I think Cerato is unique and a must have but it also doesn't have Dippy's name power

[silver steeple]

I don't see why that couldn't be a thing

[late swallow]

I do think Cerato is unique enough as well, but we will have a fuckload of medium sized Theropods by end of EA

[silver steeple]

We only know of 1 planned DLC atm

That being RE

[short rover]

I didn’t say it couldn’t I just said I don’t think it’ll happen

I could be wrong

[silver steeple]

Which has been in at least some kind of planning since the Kickstarter

So idk if that means anything

I agree that I don't imagine it would be formation specific

But time and location constraints seem likely

[shell sonnet]

I feel like with exceptions like those without anything in them at the moment, location based DLC provides fewer opportunities than clade or time based. You can get fit more alts into a pack that way.

[magic grotto]

Hmm yeah

[silver steeple]

Depends how broad the location

I think if they wanna do alts regardless they'll just do it anyway tbh

Even if it "breaks the theme"

[shell sonnet]

We also don't know how big said will be packs ; 5 mains and 3 minis is vastly different from 10 mains and 5 minis

[silver steeple]

Yeah

For all we know its like 4 exhibits and 1 mini or smth

With alts not counting

Cause they take the place of skins

[plush nacelle]

Smaller DLC, but more often = formations

Bigger DLC, but once or twice per year = periods and locations

[coarse inlet]

Ornitholestes is not at Cleveland Lloyd

[shell sonnet]

I know

[magic grotto]

I really like this idea

[shell sonnet]

But at that point, it might as well be a full Morrison

[silver steeple]

^

[coarse inlet]

Fair enough I guess

But also Tanycolagreus is really cool regardless

[shell sonnet]

It's cool, just not as a big priority as say Ornitholestes

[coarse inlet]

I want both, they’re very different

And Coelurus

[quick ore]

So just wondering, do we think that Gigantoraptor is still too fragmentary to add?

[shell sonnet]

I think that one's a bit of a mess; granted, that's par for course of small Morrison theropods

[shell sonnet]

I don't think so

[silver steeple]

Nah

It's got plenty of material + star power

[quick ore]

what is its nearest relative?

[silver steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/shrek-shrek-meme-shrek-good-question-good-question-gif-7176451729184982026

[quick ore]

because whatever it is

will probably be what the skull will be based on

[shell sonnet]

You've gotten most of the limbs, the tail, most of the vertebrate, even if parts of them are missing. It's really only the lack of neck and an incomplete skull that gives me pause

[quick ore]

imagine if it either had a fuck you-long neck or a weirdly short one

[plush nacelle]

Assuming there are that many skulls found

[silver steeple]

This is what Wikipedia has

Dunno if there's been a more recent/better phylo study with it though

[quick ore]

what is its closest relative with skull material?

[plush nacelle]

Seems like only anzu has skull

[silver steeple]

It would be weird if the neck was noticeably shorter cause as it is, the neck is just long enough to reach the ground without bending over a whole lot

[plush nacelle]

So you just slap anzu skull on everything

[quick ore]

true

[shell sonnet]

Maybe it spreads its legs out like a giraffe/j

[quick ore]

wait I forget would it have been an herbivore? or more omnivorous

[silver steeple]

I mean is that possible yeah I guess, but I don't think that's especially likely

[shell sonnet]

Omni most likely

[quick ore]

oh dang

[silver steeple]

Every other part of the animal indicates that it's simply a scaled up form

[quick ore]

if it were an herbivore I would say it would be funny to cohab it with the smaller oviraptorosaurs

[silver steeple]

Bro just swallows an Ovi whole

[quick ore]

pelican type animal

[silver steeple]

Doesn't it do that to goats in JWE lmao

[quick ore]

oh idk

reminds me of how scary Oviraptor was in Dinosaur Planet lol

not many other docs have shown them as fearsome as that doc did

[toxic oriole]

No wonder why Oviraptor got that bad rep according to Nigel

[shell sonnet]

Honestly, it looks like you're best off just basing the skull on Anzu

[short rover]

No

[silver steeple]

Except the lower jaw is way thicker

[quick ore]

imagine if it sported a huuuuuge head crest

[silver steeple]

https://youtu.be/OFoW7FpB7PA?t=23

So it tried

But ultimately spits it back out when it realizes the goat is too big

[plush nacelle]

The fact it is so big, but still jumps like this

[short rover]

JWE oviraptor is unironically exact vibes id want for it in pk if it ever made it in

Evil

[silver steeple]

That's what I would expect tbh

[quick ore]

I feel like the colors could be better

[short rover]

I just mean the vibes

It lives in a desert right? Ideally the colors would be drabber in general

[quick ore]

maybe for the female

[silver steeple]

Yeah it lived in the desert

[quick ore]

the male could still have good reason to be flashy to prove its fitness

[silver steeple]

Probably not as wild as some depictions make it

But yeah

[quick ore]

mhm

[silver steeple]

I generally expect Giganto skins to be similar in vibe to Ovi's

Perhaps this thing's version of Beryl is replaced by an Anzu alt, make it blue for the memes

[short rover]

I’d prefer a colorful face on the male. Would be cool

[digital pendant]

apparently giganto lived in a floodplain area with surrounding semi dry

[short rover]

Face/crest

[digital pendant]

"The environments around this formation were highly humid, existing as a large braided river valley with floodplains. A semi-arid climate is also indicated by caliche-based sedimentation. The Iren Dabasu Formation had extensive vegetation and foliage, evidenced in the paleosol development, the numerous herbivorous dinosaurs remains that were found in both the river channel and the floodplain sediments. A rich diversity of charophytes and ostracods inhabited the floodplain systems."

[short rover]

Neat

[silver steeple]

Oh interesting

I'd always heard Iren Dabasu being pretty much a desert

[quick ore]

the JWE model looks like it had a missed opportunity to not make the beak and crest itself a flashy color

[silver steeple]

Good to know though

[toxic oriole]

What are the chances there was a Dinosaur out there, and we ended up finding the colors for it, and it just so happened to be similar to a Tiger's fur color pattern

[digital pendant]

a lot of cretaceous formations from that general area just give nile vibes

[quick ore]

I mean

[digital pendant]

floodplains near a large river and then all surrounded by desert

[quick ore]

dinosaurs had better color vision on the whole than mammals

[toxic oriole]

Ah

[silver steeple]

Yeah that's a good comparison actually

[toxic oriole]

So no tiger pattern

[plush nacelle]

Obviously plenty angiosperm pollen

[toxic oriole]

:(

[quick ore]

so what tigers do would probably work less well

[silver steeple]

Ik Nemegt gets compared to Okavango as well

[toxic oriole]

Guess they'd have to utilize the actual method of it

[digital pendant]

https://www.egiptoexclusivo.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/importancia-rio-nilo.jpg

[toxic oriole]

Green with the tiger stripes

... I think it'd be nice to see a dinosaur with specific modern animal patterns or something equal to it

[silver steeple]

Reptile patterning tends to be different to how mammal patterns work

[slim flare]

Equus occidentalis is dubious and has been for decades, I don’t know why people keep bringing it up.

[silver steeple]

Funny big horse

[slim flare]

Big?

[toxic oriole]

Would you say its a similar situation to Equus giganteus?

[digital pendant]

very much so

stripes are a very derived trait as well

[slim flare]

In what way? Both dubious tooth taxon?

[silver steeple]

Its generally depicted to be larger than ferus from what I've seen

[toxic oriole]

Both are horses

[slim flare]

giganteus is also not exactly stratified either

[coarse inlet]

Coelurus? It’s pretty good

[toxic oriole]

Both are kinda in a similar situation in the taxonomical record

[quick ore]

it's in the new la brea game

so

[plush nacelle]

Most people maybe dont know? Wiki still states this is separate species I think

[quick ore]

that's probably why

[coarse inlet]

Yeah it’s not easy to learn these things

[slim flare]

No? Not for a few years at least

[slim flare]

I already talked to a dev about that

[coarse inlet]

It’s not amazing but there’s a decent understanding of it’s general anatomy

[quick ore]

what did they say

[slim flare]

They didn’t know

[toxic oriole]

Lemme guess, the La Brea game is that one Roblox game or something?

[slim flare]

Yes

[quick ore]

so wait what species would it have been instead

just Equus ferus?

[slim flare]

Wild horse

Yea

Which they already based it on

[plush nacelle]

When I open western horse wiki page it is still described as Equus occidentalis and nomen dubium part possibility is simply one phrase in not so long description

[slim flare]

They considered it a subspecies

[toxic oriole]

So what they simply did was rename it to Equus ferus, I reckon

[plush nacelle]

You can always edit it and prevent more people from asking for it

[toxic oriole]

Someone might undo it though, unclear who would

[slim flare]

I have faith @digital pendant will steer them the right way

[silver steeple]

All that said

I do love the idea of DLCs giving us new plants/themes and even maps

I would adore seeing new maps with focuses on different flora for the biome

[shell sonnet]

It's not the lack of bones that's a problem, it's where it fits in Theropoda that is. End of the day, Ornitholetes and Tanycolagreus are just better choices.

Larger packs should include a new scenario

[short rover]

It’s actually quite good

[silver steeple]

That'd be fun

[toxic oriole]

Havent played it before

[silver steeple]

Gigantoraptor being a menace fits large birds today

So I'd love to see that represented

[shell sonnet]

Cassowary aren't quite as menacing as people say; the Emu outpaces it for one.

[silver steeple]

Regardless

Would be fun to see that kind of energy for giganto

[slim flare]

Yeah cassowary aren’t actually particularly dangerous

[coarse inlet]

Gigantoraptor probably mostly ate plants but I still wouldn’t want to be around it

[silver steeple]

Pretty much

[digital pendant]

The few instances of a cassowary being dangerous is because people were annoying them

So surprise surprise the animal you are bothering will attack you!

[silver steeple]

To some that is a surprise

[coarse inlet]

Yeah they’re dangerous in that if they’re mad they have the capacity to really hurt you

Not that they normally try

[silver steeple]

More people need experience with animals besides dogs and cats

[coarse inlet]

Ostriches kill WAY more people than cassowaries

[digital pendant]

And a dog will absolutely shit your day if you arent careful

[slim flare]

There’s only 1 recorded cassowary death so

[silver steeple]

People also come into contact with ostriches far more often

[shell sonnet]

I wonder how many of the ostrich kills come from ostrich farms

[coarse inlet]

Two

[coarse inlet]

Probably a lot

[silver steeple]

Good question actually

[quick ore]

owner

[coarse inlet]

Yeah that’s the second one

[shell sonnet]

I mean your house cat would probably do the same.

Same with pigs

[quick ore]

when people talk about how dangerous they are I feel like they mean as wild animals

not in captivity

[silver steeple]

Yup

[slim flare]

*2 deaths

[quick ore]

oh yeah medium to large sized dogs can very easily kill people if they wanted to

depending on the breed ofc

[slim flare]

Doesn’t really change much though

Cassowaries are pretty typical medium sized animals. They’re not extraordinarily aggressive or dangerous.

[silver steeple]

I mean I would say they're probably more potentially lethal than most animals their size

That giant claw has the potential to do some serious damage

[slim flare]

Most animals have the same capabilities

The first documented human death caused by a cassowary was on April 6, 1926. In Australia, 16-year-old Phillip McClean and his brother, age 13, came across a cassowary on their property and decided to try to kill it by striking it with clubs. The bird kicked the younger boy, who fell and ran away as his older brother struck the bird. The older McClean then tripped and fell to the ground. While he was on the ground, the cassowary kicked him in the neck, opening a 1.25-centimetre (0.49 in) wound that severed his jugular vein. The boy died of his injuries shortly thereafter.

Like this is a near freak accident

[short rover]

I didn’t realize how many people’s experiences with animals start and end with whatever’s available at pet smart until like a few years ago

[coarse inlet]

Yeah but they’re pretty shy and unaggressive

Most aggression is either self defense or dads protecting chicks

[slim flare]

In both fatalities to a cassowary the victim was on the ground

[coarse inlet]

But since they LOOK scarier than other large birds their danger gets exaggerated

[magic grotto]

What would be a better replacement for it? 😮

[slim flare]

Stilt-legged horse ig

[short rover]

That would be neat

Some sort of large horse would be cool

[magic grotto]

Ooo I see!

[short rover]

Large meaning not a mini exhibit horse btw

[outer moth]

I mean it was mentioned ingame via store

So it has the royalties

[slim flare]

“Their claw can disembowel you!”

[coarse inlet]

Gigantoraptor is pretty complete by caenagnathid standards

I mean theoretically I guess it’s possible but as far as we know it’s never happened

And seems unlikely given the way they tend to use it

The claw also looks more menacing that an ostrich’s hoof claws

[slim flare]

Afaik yeah, it’s never actually happened

Probably because it’s not really shaped that way to begin with

[silver steeple]

I'm sure people have gotten some nasty lacerations

But disembowlment does seem unlikely

Its a very straight claw

[coarse inlet]

I think they’ve done it to dogs

[slim flare]

Yet people used it to support Deinonychus disembowelment

[coarse inlet]

But that’s a very different situation

[silver steeple]

That I could see

[slim flare]

Afaik no

Cassowary strikes to the abdomen are among the rarest of all, but in one case in 1995, a dog was kicked in the belly. The blow left no puncture, but severe bruising occurred. The dog later died from an apparent intestinal rupture.

[short rover]

I could easily see this happening

At least to a person

[coarse inlet]

Ah that’s what it was

[slim flare]

Blame Gregory S. Paul

[short rover]

Not as like a hunting tactic towards prey or anything usual

[coarse inlet]

The claw would really not be doing its job then

It’s very specialized to pierce and hold

[short rover]

In a hypothetical situation where a deinon is kicking around and catches your stomach with its claw you’re getting disemboweled imo however I don’t think it was a common occurrence irl especially towards its preferred prey

[short rover]

Yes I know

[shell sonnet]

Bakker was big on this one, it might not be on Paul here

[slim flare]

The bottom of a Deinonychus claw isn’t sharp

[silver steeple]

No but neither are cat claws

Yet they rip through stuff with force

[outer moth]

Aren't those claws more for climbing/pinning prey down?

[shell sonnet]

I mean cats don't usually kill with slashes (except in Pokemon)

[coarse inlet]

The issue is also that Dromaeosaur claws were so long and thin idk how much slashing force they could withstand

[slim flare]

They scrape across the surface

[silver steeple]

Honestly idk of any animal where the bottom of the claw is sharp

[outer moth]

Clearly, you've never tried to bathe one

[steep tulip]

Rarely claws are used for pure slicing
Most of animals either use it to dig,climb or pin down preys

[silver steeple]

Neither did dromaeosaurs

[shell sonnet]

Never said they did

[steep tulip]

Tho doesn't mean they can't use them to do more stuff as well

[silver steeple]

Don't really get why it was brought up then

[short rover]

Fists aren’t meant for punching and so on

[slim flare]

How do you know?

[shell sonnet]

Just bringing up a fact

[silver steeple]

Ok

[coarse inlet]

Actually that makes me wonder if Deinonychus could punch

[outer moth]

Tentacles weren't meant for punching
Yet octopi still do it out of spite

[short rover]

Yes that’s literally my exact point

[coarse inlet]

Would they be able to keep this pose with the limb extended?

[silver steeple]

Animals don't often use a specialized part purely for that purpose

[outer moth]

Funny to know that they do, though

[shell sonnet]

Because you can break your knuckles by punching things like someone's face; they're not shock absorbent like with a ram's head

[outer moth]

https://tenor.com/view/octopus-punch-gif-27176113

[coarse inlet]

No one is saying that I’m saying that the shape of the claws makes it seem like they could break with that specific usage

[shell sonnet]

There's a reason we started using tools

[silver steeple]

I really really doubt it

Injure themselves sure

But not break bone

[slim flare]

Animals also break claws and teeth so

[short rover]

If you’re a predatory animal and your claw breaks from using it slightly wrong your ass is not surviving

[silver steeple]

^

[coarse inlet]

I’m talking about the keratin sheathe

[silver steeple]

I still really doubt that

[coarse inlet]

The sharp bit is very long and thin and slashing with it seems like a bad idea

[outer moth]

I like to think that most smaller Dromies could technically also semi-climb/cling to trees if need be

[short rover]

Something something cat keratin sheathes

[short rover]

I don’t see why not

[coarse inlet]

This is so extreme it’s hard to compare to cats

[coarse inlet]

That seems very likely even for Deinonychus sized ones

Dromaeosaurs are very catlike in a lot of ways

[coarse inlet]

Notice how much thicker the cat keratin is

[outer moth]

And it feels like Troods would be even more catlike than Dromies

[coarse inlet]

Nah

Troodontids were eating lots of plants and only hunting small animals

[shell sonnet]

What exactly is the whole argument here?

[coarse inlet]

That deinonychus probably wouldn’t disembowel you

[silver steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/khaby-lame-seriously-gif-27511887

[shell sonnet]

It seems to be that both Dromies and Felines would have used their claws for the same purposes, which is gripping onto things

[outer moth]

So foxlike

[shell sonnet]

I don't think anyone has seriously suggested that.

[coarse inlet]

What? The keratin sheath is like 3 x the width of the claws in the cat and very slim in the Dromaeosaur

[fresh ember]

Counterpoint; Humans have embarrassingly thin skin.

[late swallow]

Tru

[coarse inlet]

Yeah

[outer moth]

Smaller tyrannosaurs/abelisaurs would be more doglike then

[late swallow]

Ever accidentally cut yourself by running your nail against your skin wrong

[silver steeple]

We have a single (incomplete) claw outline from the sickle claw of a dromaeosaur to compare to, its hardly that cut and dry lmao

[late swallow]

That.. could also just be my hEDS

[short rover]

This was also kinda my thinking yeah

It doesn’t take much

[outer moth]

So disembowlment is rare, but likely

Like it's possible if you handle it wrong

[late swallow]

Anything is possible if you do it wrong enough

[short rover]

This is what I said to begin with

[coarse inlet]

I still think at the angle you would need for that it’s probably just gonna hook into the skin

[silver steeple]

Yeah and in trying to get out its gonna tear you to pieces lol

[short rover]

Hook something sharp into your stomach skin and rip it back with a fair bit of force and what do you think happens lol

[late swallow]

Oh, I know this one!

[silver steeple]

It'd be like a giant fishhook

Not pretty

[shell sonnet]

You get hungry from an empty stomach, duh

[silver steeple]

Lmao

[late swallow]

A handshake with Edward Scissorhands

[short rover]

True…

[outer moth]

And if you don't think dromaeosaurs can't deal much damage, try bathing a cat
And you'll see

[coarse inlet]

They’d do massive damage and I’m not saying otherwise

But fully disemboweling someone feels like a stretch

[short rover]

Ok

[outer moth]

Trust me
It ain't