Community Species Suggestions

[toxic oriole]

I thought it was Juramaia, but I got mixed up with the large one

Wow, talk about that

I mistook Patagomaia for Juramaia

Anyways, the Patagonian monther in question:

[quick ore]

important question as I am making my list; is Koolasuchus too big?

could it even be an exhibit animal?

I feel like the answer is that it isn't too big and that it couldn't be an exhibit animal due to it not being an amniote

[toxic oriole]

I dunno really
This size chart is from 2023, and who knows if this holds up today

[coarse inlet]

Koolasuchus could be an exhibit animal for sure

[quick ore]

Juramaia985

[coarse inlet]

as I said we have no clue what it is

aside from "big mammal"

[toxic oriole]

Well there is a Jurassic Spider, so uhhh

[coarse inlet]

IF the Gurlin Tsav skull had a name it'd be a cool terrarium critter. Possible cretaceous sparassodont

[toxic oriole]

Could always get this guy

[coarse inlet]

that seems

impossible to see in game

I'd say anything smaller than an adult human hand feels implausible

[hollow furnace]

nah I love adding animals smaller than the in-game resolution

[slim flare]

"its there guys, trust"

[toxic oriole]

THE AVERAGE FLY CAME FROM THE MIDDLE TRIASSIC!?

[hollow furnace]

John Hammond's flea circus DLC

[toxic oriole]

WHAT!? EVEN WASPS, BEES, ANTS AND SAWFLIES CAME FROM THE TRIASSIC!?

[slim flare]

No they burst out of the asteroid

Before that the Earth was pure

[coarse inlet]

hymenoptera did but not every modern hymenopteran burst forth fully formed in the Anisian

sawflies are known from the Triassic

the clade of wasps, bees, and ants are Jurassic in origin, but they only became social in the Cretaceous

[quick ore]

You're misunderstanding what those charts mean

[coarse inlet]

and ants only became super common post K/Pg

[quick ore]

this just means that their group split off from their closest relatives at that time

the basal hymenopteran of the triassic would only remotely resemble the species found today; especially since flowers hadn't evolved yet

[coarse inlet]

termites are only known for sure in the Cretaceous but there's a lot of reasons to believe they were around in the JUrassic

or even earlier if some people are right

[flint sable]

kinda like permian ichthyosaurs

which probably existed

but we cant know for certain

till we find fossils anyway

or if we do

[coarse inlet]

yeah, but we dont have specialist ichthyosaur eating permian animals

[hollow furnace]

how do we know icthyosaurs didn't just emerge out of the siberian traps fully formed?

[flint sable]

ok yeah nevermind

this is the prevailing theory

[coarse inlet]

honestly I think they were formed from the mass death and suffering

[flint sable]

ignore my previous blunder

[coarse inlet]

hence why they are such cursed creatures

every hand bone represents an animal that died in agony in the great dying

[shell sonnet]

because we know they were the creation of an aesthetically-minded giant squid

[toxic oriole]

And I just noticed theres alot of Mesozoic ants

[hollow furnace]

there are lots of ants period so makes sense

[quick ore]

Unordered Vivarium Wishlist:

Terrestrial
• Deinogalerix
• Arthropleura
• Pterodactylus
• Diictodon
• Hyperodapedon

Semi-Aquatic
• Didelphodon
• Vancleavea
• Diplocaulus
• Hibbertopterus
• Koolasuchus

Arboreal
• Microleo
• Sharovipteryx
• Coelurosauravus
• any Drepanosaur
• Plesiadapis

[hollow furnace]

Interesting choice to put pterodactylus as terrestrial vs semi-aquatic

[toxic oriole]

Yeah Pterodactylus deserves to be ingame anyways

First pterosaur to have been discovered and described in general, needs more love

[quick ore]

but it wasn't semi aquatic?

unless I am unaware of something

[coarse inlet]

most stuff recently I've seen finds it as a terrestrial animal

[flint sable]

it lived in a semiaquatic environment tho no?

or did it live inland

[quick ore]

it was feeding near the water but that doesnt make it semi aquatic, that's like calling a sandpiper semiaquatic

[coarse inlet]

I mean dimorphodon is found in marine sediments and it would have been able to make it 20 feet over the water lmao

[hollow furnace]

Oh damn Pterodactylus was a generalist, I thought we had evidence suggesting it was piscivorous

my life has been a lie

[flint sable]

or a seagull really

[coarse inlet]

recent paper suggests they were blown by wind

[flint sable]

oh ok

yeah in that case probably arboreal

[coarse inlet]

Ramphorhynchus seems like the main pterosaur that was actually hanging out regularly in the lagoons

and others were blown from trees by hurricanes, hence the bias towards smaller/younger individuals

[quick ore]

*Rhamphorhynchus

[coarse inlet]

FUCK

[waxen grail]

Why does it feel like most Pterosaurs are assumed to be piscivorous?

[quick ore]

huh?

[coarse inlet]

THERE ARE SO MANY SILENT HS IN ONE WORD WHY

[quick ore]

why arboreal?

[waxen grail]

Yes

[quick ore]

pretty sure it was just terrestrial

[flint sable]

perching spots in trees

[coarse inlet]

most are found in aquatic sediments

[coarse inlet]

also see this

[flint sable]

terrestrial would probably just be ground and no perching spot

[silver steeple]

Well not just that

[coarse inlet]

yeah but it biases us towards piscivorous species being preserved

[silver steeple]

In a lot of the ones that have teeth, the teeth are conical

[coarse inlet]

there's a 100% chance we only know a tiny part of pterosaur diversity, because they're so hard to preserve

[quick ore]

I feel like given that most of the time it would have either been flying or on the ground it is safe to call Pterodactylus a terrestrial flier

like, turkeys aren't arboreal

[coarse inlet]

true but when we're discussing the terrariums it's more about what paths and animations are available

[waxen grail]

I keep forgetting that turkeys can fly

[coarse inlet]

Microraptor probably wasnt super arboreal

[flint sable]

wild turkeys do sit in trees more than you would think, but generally speaking yeah

[coarse inlet]

but it makes sense to be in an arboreal terrarium

[flint sable]

this is whats really important yeah

[quick ore]

for Pterodactylus I think its animations would be foraging for food on the ground and flying around the vivarium, maybe with a large perch that one would occasionally fly up to

[flint sable]

ye

and for that I think that uhhh

arboreal makes the most sense

since I kinda doubt terrestrial would really have a spot to perch

[coarse inlet]

given that recent paper indicates that at least some were in trees a good part of the time I think maybe a bit more than that

[quick ore]

ah ok

sorry

is my list any good besides that?

[coarse inlet]

yeah

Deinogalerix is a great pick

[slim flare]

When we talk about vivariums and people are just making up genera on the spot

[coarse inlet]

I will say I dont think there's any reason for Vancleavea to be a vivarium species

[coarse inlet]

what?

[quick ore]

why?

it's incredibly well preserved

and a unique triassic species

[coarse inlet]

it's not small or in need of specialized movement, it could easily be a full species

[quick ore]

um

[slim flare]

Just a joke about all these glupshitto taxon I’ve never heard of.

[quick ore]

it is very much small what

[coarse inlet]

skill issue

[slim flare]

Yes!

[coarse inlet]

the really good specimen is but

[slim flare]

Oh yeah that thing

[coarse inlet]

they got real big

[slim flare]

How much is actually known of the giant one?

[quick ore]

are we sure the giant one isn't just a different, related species?

[hollow furnace]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/344702744_NEW_SPECIMENS_OF_THE_ARCHOSAURIFORM_VANCLEAVEA_CAMPI_FROM_THE_UPPER_TRIASSIC_RHAETIAN_REDONDA_FORMATION_OF_EASTERN_NEW_MEXICO_INDICATES_VANCLEAVEA_CAMPI_WAS_AN_APEX_PREDATOR

[silver steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/pretty-sure-mark-grayson-maybe-yes-invincible-gif-20907699

[silver steeple]

Vanc is a funny beast

[quick ore]

dang

I guess rip then

[coarse inlet]

no, but that's true of Vancleavea in general, it's still debated if it's one taxon or many, but might as well treat it as such for game purposes

[quick ore]

ok

[coarse inlet]

but to be clear I ADORE Vancleavea and desperately want it in the game

[late swallow]

plush animal

[coarse inlet]

plush made of chainmail

look at this shit, that's just overkill

even its tail fin is made of armor

[late swallow]

i just want a 6ft plush

why is his face black

[slim flare]

I mean crocodilians do that

[late swallow]

thats not a fin

[slim flare]

I mean… is it not?

[late swallow]

no

[coarse inlet]

the main propulsive surface is formed by the caudal vertebrae and muscles, unlike in Vancleavea

[slim flare]

I mean, sure, but either way the fin is being armoured, no?

[silver steeple]

Gotta be tough when you live in the same environment as giant phytosaurs and rauisuchids

[shell sonnet]

Arboreal
Kuehneosuchus latissimus
Jeholopterus ninchengensis
Longisquama insignis
Notharctus tenebrosus
Saniwa ensidens
Terrarium
Ceratogaulus hatcheri
Lystrosaurus murrayi
Heterodontosaurus tucki
Deinogalerix koenigswaldi
Arthropleura armata (though I've read there's good evidence for a semi-aquatic lifestyle)
Semi-Aquarium
Diplocaulus magnicornis
Indohyus major
Castorocauda lutrasimilis
Ichthyornis dispar
Liaoningosaurus paradoxus
If this include full-aquatics then Tullimonstrum gregarium, Gebrayelichthys uyenoi, and Henodus chelyops

[silver steeple]

Interesting to see a handful of taxa show up in almost every list and also there be so much variety lol

[slim flare]

Arthropleura semiaquatic??

[silver steeple]

Its an idea that's been tossed around

[coarse inlet]

yeah I grouped it with semiaquatic in my list

[vivid field]

what happened to my beloved nanuqsaurus??

[toxic oriole]

Forgotten by the thread

[vivid field]

I haven’t and will never forget,

NANUQSAURUS FOREVER

[coarse inlet]

kid named piece of a maxilla

[slim flare]

In a formation with two cryptids

[quick ore]

What Dinopithecus glazers would have to defend their view of it being a badass killer baboon if they couldn't use edgy paleoart:

[coarse inlet]

it's a big baboon that's scary enough

regular baboons are scary

[quick ore]

yeah but that's it, it's just a big baboon

not even particularly carnivorous or anything

[coarse inlet]

so?

it's a big baboon

that's fucked up

[slim flare]

Dinopithecus and Gigantopithecus are the only two monkeys PK has any chance of having

[quick ore]

as exhibit animals maybe

[slim flare]

I wish we had more remains of either tbh

[quick ore]

I think it should just be Gigantopithecus imo, let Hadropithecus or Archaeolemur be your baboon stand-ins

[slow shoal]

why have a stand in when we can have an actual baboon

archaeolemur is basically just a big regular lemur

archaeoindris is the only lemur with a legitimate chance imo

[quick ore]

what

no it wasnt

[slow shoal]

also baboons are just cooler than lemurs sorry

werewolf lookin dudes

[quick ore]

it belongs to an entirely extinct family and it and Hadropithecus are the most terrestrial strepsirrhines (not just lemurs) to have ever evolved to our knowledge

[slow shoal]

like ik archaeolemur is monkey convergent but the layman wont be able to tell in life

or in game for that matter

[quick ore]

you could use this same argument to try to exclude Thylacines and instead add an extinct species of Jackal or something

a big baboon is just a big baboon

[slow shoal]

thats a terrible argument lmao thylacines are iconic

[quick ore]

not saying they aren't

I'm saying "why add this animal convergent with some other animal when you can just add the animal that it is convergent with" is a dumb argument

[slow shoal]

i just think there are much better primate picks than just lemurs, especially if we can get an actual monkey

which deinopithecus is one of the few that fits the mold of not needing arboreal anything

[quick ore]

lemurs are literally the primate picks for this game

like

[slow shoal]

why

i dont think we need like a bunch, personally if we even just get gigantopith id be satisfied

[quick ore]

Gigantopithecus and to a much lesset extent Dinopithecus are the only real options for exhibit monkeys

[slow shoal]

for minis ig darwinius would be cool

[quick ore]

because they are actually unlike anything alive today and interesting in their own right?

[slow shoal]

you could say that about many smaller extinct primates that fit vivariums

[quick ore]

they represent a now lost diversity of not just lemurs but in primates as a whole

but we aren't talking about vivariums

[slow shoal]

for arboreal stuff thats really all that can work

and ik archaeolemur was more terrestrial but personally i dont see the hype in it as an inclusion

if you want a terrestrial lemur, archaeoindris is the pick imo

[quick ore]

it wasn't that terrestrial though

it was just the largest

[reef relic]

GIVE ME EINIOSAURUS MAU, AND MY SOUL IS YOURS

Also what are we discussing U19 for? Did something change?

[left spear]

In theory it's still an art and final touches update

[coarse inlet]

roadmap added more species at some point

[plush nacelle]

Archaeoindris would look clunky on land

Like its big, but known remains still indicate similar thing to palaeopropithecus

[quick ore]

yeah pretty sure Archaeoindris had like

an orangutan thing going

just a really big arboreal primate that could go on the ground but was more at home in the trees

[plush nacelle]

Wish there was arboreal locomotion like in PZ, but I understand there isnt

[silver steeple]

I think its likely that we'll get enrichment items for it down the line

We are still due to get "toy" enrichment down the line

[hard elbow]

Hadropithecus and Archaeolemur look nothing like baboons and you know this

[plush nacelle]

Something similar to Eucalyptus Feeder in PZ would be nice

[hard elbow]

They have convergences with the broader family of monkeys baboons are in, yeah, but they don't fill the niche of "big baboon"

Especially because they're small enough they'd probably be minis honestly

[hard elbow]

God I hope so

Even if it doesn't provide half the actual climbing extent some of these animals would do in the wild, it'd be nice to have at least a bit of it

[quick ore]

I never said so

[hard elbow]

And yeah this is true but it'd be like saying adding the Mammoth is a waste because there's proboscideans way more unlike either surviving species. People want stuff like platybelodon, but nobody in their right mind is saying that platybelodon should have been added instead of mammoths

[hard elbow]

Well how are they supposed to be baboon stand ins then

[quick ore]

they are terrestrially specialized primates and are literally likened to baboons in how they would have moved when they were alive. They didn't particularly look like baboons but they are, at least imo, more interesting inclusions than Dinopithecus would be

[silver steeple]

Ok but like Daspletosaurus and T.rex moved the same way, so therefore we don't need T.rex if we have Daspleto

[hard elbow]

"how they would have moved" doesn't really scratch the itch for baboon tbh. Similar methods of terrestrial locomotion but I don't think baboons are interesting purely for how they walk

And I mean like

Why do we have to pretend like they need to be mutually exclusive

That's dumb

[quick ore]

im not saying that

[hard elbow]

Like with the Mammoth point- why not have both mammoth and platybelodon

[quick ore]

I'm just being realistic

I doubt we will get All of these potential primates

[silver steeple]

Realistically a taxon with more star power is gonna win

[slow shoal]

i just think big baboon is objectively cooler tbh. Plus we have like no other true monkeys that fit the mold of what could work

[hard elbow]

You keep saying you think adding dinopithecus would be a waste and they should add half a dozen random tiny lemurs instead

[silver steeple]

Which in this case is Dinopithecus lol

[quick ore]

no I haven't??? I have literally only mentioned 3 lemurs, and 2 of them would be alts of each other

my thinking is that as far as exhibit primates should go, Gigantopithecus is a necessary addition and after it comes the potential subfossil lemurs that can be added and Dinopithecus

[slow shoal]

i also think dinopith has a unique role as like, one of the very few mainland africa cenozoic picks that are popular enough

[silver steeple]

Agreed

[hard elbow]

right, that's it, several subfossil lemurs before dinopithecus at all

[quick ore]

also none of the animals I suggested are tiny

[slow shoal]

deinotherium, sivatherium, and platybeledon also come to mind but they also arent exclusive to africa

[hard elbow]

And also like complaining about dinopithecus' remains being fragmentary is silly when gigantopithecus is like, this

[sharp dock]

thats not giganto

[quick ore]

-Arsinoitherium
-Megistotherium
-Moeritherium
and many more

[sharp dock]

also where EZ

[quick ore]

I wasnt even complaining about it being fragmentary

also like

[plush nacelle]

Prehistoric Planet: Ice Age might change popularity a little depending on what will be featured from Africa I think

[hard elbow]

As is complaining that dinopithecus is only considered cool because of "edgy paleoart" or whatever when like 2/3rds of gigantopithecus paleoart is "omg bigfoot in real"

[sharp dock]

havent seen his daily we need posts in a while 🙁

[silver steeple]

I think they meant like late cenozoic

[slow shoal]

if we had full exhibit arboreal stuff id genuienly make the case for sivapithecus but sadly it wont happen

[quick ore]

we all know that Gigantopithecus is fragmentary, but it being the largest primate ever supercedes that and it had a close relative to go off of

[frosty heron]

Didnt EZ crashout and leave or am I misremembering

[sharp dock]

wut, when

[silver steeple]

Oh do I get to drop the Ternary Graph again?

[junior furnace]

Big baboon cool af

[slow shoal]

if dinopith gets in can we at least agree there should be a Ronpasta easteregg

[sharp dock]

Ronpasta

[quick ore]

a what

[sharp dock]

you mean that one about joschuas monkey cruise piece?

[slow shoal]

yeah

[sharp dock]

lol classic

[silver steeple]

Nigel mentions seeing art of dinopithecus interacting with ancient humans

[quick ore]

in what?

[sharp dock]

dinopithecus mentioned in PK????

[silver steeple]

As in that would be the reference

I figured that was obvious in the context

[hard elbow]

That would be fucking hilarious

[sharp dock]

what about Nigel just straight out narrates the whole copypasta

that would be funny

[silver steeple]

If someone could pay him to do that it would be so funny

[slow shoal]

copypasta btw

[quick ore]

listen ok, Dinopithecus wouldn't necessarily be a bad choice, but I would hate to see it get in instead of a subfossil lemur

[silver steeple]

Imo the only one that really has a good chance over Dino is Archeoindris

[quick ore]

regretfully I agree

but I do hope that others can get added too

honestly it feels the most likely for them to just add Gigantopithecus and Archeoindris, since that would get both sides of the primate family tree

[slow shoal]

i do think its quite likely we could get a vivarium primate eventually

[quick ore]

I agree

[hard elbow]

Read in Nigel voice:
"I'm still thinking about an art piece I saw recently that reconstructed Dinopithecus interacting with ancient humans, with brilliant symbolism reflecting the differences between two ancient primates and our own evolutionary history. It makes one wonder how similar interactions between dinopithecus and modern humans-our guests- might be."

attempt at a realistic reference

[slow shoal]

tho there is so many its hard to even narrow down

[quick ore]

but this convo is just about exhibit species

[silver steeple]

I'd be surprised if we didn't at least get Darwinius

Its like one of the only ancient primates that people actually know

Thank you WWB

[quick ore]

why WWB

Darwinius wasn't in there

[hard elbow]

Still a major branch that would kinda go unrepresented this way

[plush nacelle]

WWB monke was godinotia

[silver steeple]

Huh ig not

[quick ore]

which major branch

[plush nacelle]

Series is older than darwinius discovery

[silver steeple]

Wikipedia has Apidium

[quick ore]

that's episode 2

Godinotia was in episode 1

[plush nacelle]

Apidium is the one from africa

[slow shoal]

erm, true monkeys

[silver steeple]

I don't remember there being a monkey in episode one?

[quick ore]

the distinction between apes and monkeys is silly

[slow shoal]

i think briefly when there is the whole deadly gas scene

[silver steeple]

Regardless its apparently not called that anymore

[quick ore]

they had sex

[silver steeple]

Its now Pronycticebus

[plush nacelle]

It was monkeying around in background

[quick ore]

fun fact there was sex in every WWB episode

[silver steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/family-guy-peter-griffin-not-ringing-any-bells-doesnt-ring-a-bell-not-familiar-gif-12206657332701177791

[slow shoal]

this is like saying the distinction between tyrannosauroids and tyrannosaurids is silly

[silver steeple]

Been a long time since I've seen WWB tho

[slow shoal]

there is a distinction even if one is within the other

[plush nacelle]

To be fair godinotia didnt play major role in first episode

[quick ore]

neither is as big a distinction as there is between Strepsirrhines and Haplorhines

[hard elbow]

exactly

[plush nacelle]

It was there to show primate origin

[hard elbow]

Like technically yeah but everyone and their mother knows that there's differences between apes and non ape monkeys

[silver steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-surprised-weird-gif-1236860216851176318

[hard elbow]

"ah yes apes are monkeys thus they represent the sum total of haplorhine diversity"

Like bro this is starting to come off like a fucking "I arbitrarily hate dinopithecus specifically" gag

[plush nacelle]

Now with pretty good damn primate fossil from Messel they would use darwinius instead

[quick ore]

did you seriously just call me bro

[silver steeple]

Darwinius is still the only one that most people are able to name by memory alone

[slow shoal]

idk there is a big gap

[silver steeple]

And its great material so

[plush nacelle]

Ya, but again WWB is older than darwinius

[hard elbow]

Oh sorry I use the term gender neutrally by habit. Did not mean anything by it

[plush nacelle]

So they did use something else

[silver steeple]

Ok we've moved past that

[plush nacelle]

Darwinius good monke. I initially though its going to be the mammal for vivarium

[hard elbow]

I want at least one vivarium monkey

We need some arboreal stuff that's not birds

[silver steeple]

Same

[hard elbow]

Not that I don't want a million birds

[plush nacelle]

Because there is dev Ida and Darwinius fossils is named Ida

[silver steeple]

Well there's options for that

Drepanosaurs for one

[plush nacelle]

And she likes mammals

[hard elbow]

Drepanosaurs my beloved

[slow shoal]

we are getting an arboreal lizard

[hard elbow]

Suminia as well

[slow shoal]

im still convinced its something totally unexpected

[silver steeple]

Suminia is so cool

[quick ore]

this kind of falls a part when you remember that how we use "monkey" when excluding apes is paraphyletic

[silver steeple]

There is still a distinction

Regardless of phylogeny

[plush nacelle]

The fact lizard is prolly not insectivorous is still insane to me

[slow shoal]

but im stumped as to exactly what, barbaturex is what im guessing but im far from convinced lol

[quick ore]

it only exists in some languages

[silver steeple]

So what

Apes are a taxonomic group within monkeys as a whole

[quick ore]

yeah

[silver steeple]

There's no ape that's closer to other monkeys than it is to another ape

Therefore, a real grouping

[slow shoal]

also are we just gonna ignore that Platyrrhines and Cercopithecoids are their own groups

and are what people usually mean by monkey

[quick ore]

THATS

THATS WHAT I MEAN

[silver steeple]

Then why bring up paraphyly?

[quick ore]

apes are just part of Catarrhini

[slow shoal]

no?

they are Catarrhines

[silver steeple]

Yeah no

[slow shoal]

which includes Cercopithecoidea and apes

[quick ore]

sorry you

[silver steeple]

Cercopithecoidea is specifically the sister group to apes (hominoidea)

[quick ore]

you used groups from different classifications

so i got confused

you grouped a parvorder with a family and I assumed both were the families

[slow shoal]

either way those two groups are some of the largest and most widespread of all primates, so it feels odd to just skip over them imo

[hard elbow]

^

[silver steeple]

^

[quick ore]

ok well there isn't a good Platyrrhine option afaik

outside of terrariums

[hard elbow]

It's an insanely large and diverse group and to say it's completely acceptable and in fact preferable for it to be boiled down to one single member while it would be tragic if there weren't multiple lemuroids feels a little silly

[hard elbow]

Yeah I can't think of any but I'm not as knowledgeable on them (and also idk if the fossil record for them is all that good anyway?)

[hard elbow]

That said though I don't think vivariums should be excluded from the discussion

Especially with primates

[silver steeple]

Was looking around for the hell of it to see if there was maybe anything at all

And came across this fella who gave me a laugh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homunculus_(genus)

[quick ore]

lol

[hard elbow]

Because I can think of like, very few primates that are actually suitable to be full exhibit animals- p much archaeoindris, gigantopithecus, and dinopithecus

But there's TONS of vivarium potential species

[hard elbow]

Holy shit I love him

[quick ore]

there's nothing wrong with the monkey lemurs as exhibit animals, they aren't even too small

[slow shoal]

im gonna actually be shocked if i somehow correctly guess the arboreal lizard is this guy

[silver steeple]

Can you imagine Nigel having to say fuckin Homunculus lmfao

[slow shoal]

iirc the art is slightly oversized

barbaturex is the biggest iguanid iirc?

[quick ore]

if I had to choose an actual lizard as a terrarium species I would go with the giant shingleback skink

[hard elbow]

I think they're kinda borderline though aren't they

[sharp dock]

I would go with heccinlizardodon

very intrestong spices

[plush nacelle]

There is few like late pleistocene caipora, which is big enough to be exhibit species. It is just neither largest primate to ever exist or super ,,dangerous,, so few people talk about it

[sharp dock]

or that one bigass gecko

arcanum was it?

[slow shoal]

tbf we are also getting quite large vivariums so who knows

[sharp dock]

somethingarcanum

[quick ore]

maybe but they are about as large as any typical zoo monkey

[hard elbow]

Like they're small enough that they'd be pushing it for regular exhibits, which is why I'd go to vivariums so you can better represent the arboreal behaviors

[quick ore]

and their babies wouldn't be exceptionally tiny

[hard elbow]

Yeah and that's tiiiiny by PK standards lol

[silver steeple]

Tbf a lot of things are lol

We're dealing with some of the largest animals on land

[hard elbow]

I think the only animals that weigh less than the archaeolemuris estimate I'm looking at are leaellyn and velo

[slow shoal]

honestly

[hard elbow]

Right, but I mean even discounting the big stuff they'd be among the absolute smallest terrestrial animals in the game

[slow shoal]

larger arboreal primates could work with vivariums

not like, huge ones tho

[silver steeple]

As would Dinopithecus tbh

[quick ore]

Archaeolemur weighed 40-58lbs

[plush nacelle]

Check caipora and protopithecus

Would fit alongside other late pleistocene megafauna from SA

[quick ore]

Hadropithecus weighed 60-77lbs

[plush nacelle]

And are surprisingly big enough

Like baboons, but from SA

[sharp dock]

Hadropithecus is decently sized

[silver steeple]

Male Dinopith get to like 100lbs on average

[hard elbow]

Oviraptor weighed like 73-88, psittaco mongoliensis was like 44 lbs, proto was like 137 lbs minimum

[silver steeple]

But it seems like the largest ones could get up to 170?

[sharp dock]

I do believe the smallest feasible habitat animal would be something like a dodo

tbh

[silver steeple]

Yeah probably

[quick ore]

so then Archaeo/Hadro are just large enough

[sharp dock]

dodo as a mini exhibit would be really sad

[hard elbow]

And yeah I think dinopith is about as small as you can get before it starts to feel Really Tiny because primates don't have the advantage of tails to make them look bigger that dinosaurs do

[silver steeple]

Would feel weird to have dodo in a terrarium

[quick ore]

the tails also add a lot to the weight of dinosaurs

[silver steeple]

Not in the same way at least yeah

[hard elbow]

Imo if they can do it with compy I wouldn't object with dodo

[quick ore]

yeah no dodo can NOT be a terrarium animal

I would hate that

[hard elbow]

But anyway for a primate that's on the borderline I feel like I'd rather get them as vivarium animals even if they technically weigh enough

[silver steeple]

Compy is different tbh

[hard elbow]

Because you can handle their behaviors a little better that way

Actually climbing and such

(and then just limit them to the larger vivariums)

[slow shoal]

pretty sure dodos got to about as tall as psittaco

[silver steeple]

Yeah

[hard elbow]

It's the chicks I'd worry about with dodo personally but if they could pull it off I could see it

[proper raven]

dodo chicks can be velo chick sized

[quick ore]

I think we are being a bit mislead about minimum dimensions for exhibit animals when our smallest exhibit animals have up to this point all been dinosaurs whose dimensions can't be plotted the same way as mammals

[silver steeple]

Ok I have found the definitive best dodo size comparison

Wow that image quality is dogwater

[proper raven]

https://tenor.com/view/no-pixels-cant-see-ben-chang-community-ken-jeong-gif-17361588

[slow shoal]

im honestly really excited about vivariums, the new patreon post shows a lot more flexibility than seen before which is hype

[quick ore]

like it would feel wrong for so many mammals to get relegated to vivariums for no reason when they could function just as well in exhibits

[hard elbow]

Welp that's it this is our new standard

[proper raven]

am i gonna fork out 10$ to read the new patreon posts?

[hard elbow]

The Dyson has to be the bare minimum exhibit animal size

[hard elbow]

See, I don't really see it that way tbh

As in animals get "relegated" to vivariums

[quick ore]

people would absolutely say that with the Dodo

[hard elbow]

I think that no matter how limited they are, the option to have an animal is better than not getting it

[silver steeple]

Whoops no more taco, velo, or proto

[hard elbow]

And that's a nice bit of diversity for the game

[hard elbow]

delete them. Vacuum them up

It's the same as stuff like tiktaalik

I'd rather it be in a vivarium than not get it at all

[quick ore]

also hey! guess what animal weighed only 22-62lbs on average?

https://tenor.com/view/thylacine-tasmanian-tiger-tasmanian-tiger-color-gif-24516611

[slow shoal]

like unironically stuff as big as titanoboa possibly working now, tho its kinda pushing it

[quick ore]

the thylacine would absolutely be "relegated" to a vivarium species if made into one

[hard elbow]

Which iirc was something posited a good ways back- things like amphibians being vivarium only because their ontogeny makes them unreasonably difficult to pull off

[hard elbow]

Relegated how though

Like if that were the only option

[quick ore]

it would be a disservice

[hard elbow]

I'm not saying it IS the only option but if it came down to that

[slow shoal]

thylacines are taller than psittacosaurus

[silver steeple]

Titanoboa is basically a perfect for the largest vivarium going by AZA standards on snake enclosures

[slow shoal]

vivarium picks arent about weight but size and difficulty with offspring / locomotion

[hard elbow]

"this is the best way we can implement this animal to do it justice/have it function properly"

[quick ore]

the thing with Titanoboa is that it could only work in a terrarium

Titanoboa as an exhibit animal would not only be a nightmare for the devs

it would also be unrealistic

[silver steeple]

Size being dimenstion in this case

[quick ore]

since when have you seen a snake in an open air exhibit?

[slow shoal]

arthropluera could 100% work inside one of these too with plenty of space

[silver steeple]

So idk why weight was brought up ngl

[hard elbow]

Yeah weight was a bad comparison on my part tbh

[quick ore]

weight was brought up because Tropicola said that the monkey lemurs were too small

[silver steeple]

I know that

I'm saying that arguing over weight alone makes very little sense

Cause that's not how vivarium size is determined

[slow shoal]

also i dont think this is supposed to be super secret info or anything, just cant share pics, but the biggest vivarium atm is 16m long

[silver steeple]

They got sized up?

[slow shoal]

theres multiple

[silver steeple]

I thought it was 12m

Ik that

[hard elbow]

Not necessarily too small (though def pushing it) but borderline too small, at which point my thinking is "vivariums would probably be a better way to implement an arboreal primate" since you can do a lot more climbing behaviors that way

[silver steeple]

There was a big and a small

[slow shoal]

there is a new biggest and smallest option

[hard elbow]

Versus currently, where there's zero climbing options at all

[silver steeple]

Big was 12m, small was 8

[slow shoal]

theres 4 options atm

[silver steeple]

So it got sized up

Oh neat

[quick ore]

they were terrestrial

[silver steeple]

Did they do the 4x4?

[slow shoal]

ye

thats the smallest

[silver steeple]

Hell yeah

[hard elbow]

Like purely terrestrial or just more terrestrial than other lemurs

[slow shoal]

also mentions potential minimum size requirement which i shouldnt be reading into but gives me hope for the big stuff like arthropluera

[hard elbow]

everything I've read says they'd still climb, they just spent a bit more time on the ground

But idk

Ultimately very silly debate

[silver steeple]

Well I'm sure minimum size is just "this animal will not fit in something too small"

[slow shoal]

ye

[silver steeple]

Cause even holotype sized Tiktaalik are like 2m?

Which putting that in a 4x4m box would be sad lol

[hard elbow]

If we're going to daydream about adding animals beyond all reason and evidence for them why arbitrarily limit oneself. "They can only add 2 primates and 1 has to be a lemur" is silly methinks

[quick ore]

you can say this for, quite literally, every primate ever

the monkey/baboon lemurs are the most terrestrially adapted strepsirrhines ever

[slow shoal]

vivarium spec is gonna be so fun for the future cause unironically they could so easily turn these into aquariums

[silver steeple]

Yeah it certainly seems that way

I wonder if they'll do null options on a true aquarium version

[quick ore]

im not being arbitrary here this is about being realistic you can't expect primates to get a ton of slots

[slow shoal]

behold the magical block of floating water housing several trilobites

[silver steeple]

Lmfao

[hard elbow]

Yeah this is why I don't consider animals ending up in vivariums as "relegating"

[silver steeple]

Depends on the animal imo

[quick ore]

dodos or thylacines would absolutely be relegated

[hard elbow]

I'm one of the freaks who thinks they should make full size flyers+aquatics an enlarged version of the vivarium system if they have to

[silver steeple]

Well sure

But hopefully it would be better than that

[slow shoal]

also while stuff is still "looped" it looks like its gonna be a lot more seamless and technical

[hard elbow]

Put the quetz on a track I don't give a fuck, if it means I get quetz where I otherwise wouldn't I'm game

[slow shoal]

def not free roam or anything but they prolly will go more in depth in it in a dev log

[quick ore]

https://tenor.com/view/prehistoric-planet-freshwater-quetzalcoatlus-azhdarchid-pterosaur-gif-10118890224267487766

[silver steeple]

In an ideal world aquatics and aerials get as much full movement as possible

[quick ore]

the Quetz loop

[silver steeple]

Lmao

[hard elbow]

I mean sure yeah but if you actually want to play it realistic we should ban all speculation until we have the performance numbers for the released game

[quick ore]

that isnt playing realistically that's being negative

that's assuming the game will fail entirely to get enough for more than the RE dlc

[hard elbow]

The point of this thread is for suggestions/talking about animals that would be cool, and I deliberately don't participate here much (because I like to temper my expectations) but I think it's silly to arbitrarily restrict oneself (and others) in a discussion about "animals that would be cool"

[slow shoal]

also i can say rn these vivariums are better than PZs

[silver steeple]

Not a high bar

[slow shoal]

like they aint complete but all the stuff going into them is cool

wont feel like lifeless boxes

[hard elbow]

I mean I'm kinda basing that assumption on stuff the devs have said before. They don't know what the release performance will end up being like and they can't exactly start developing DLC until they do know. For all we know they could end up with enough success to add 10+ primates, or it could be a minor success, but not enough to get primates at all

My point is there's no way to predict how many animals we'll get post release and what the "budget" for various animal groups is

So why focus too much on that when you could instead discuss the individual merits of a species

ESPECIALLY because there will ALWAYS be more cool species than can ever get into PK

[slow shoal]

real question is would arthropleura be a terrestrial vivarium or amphibious

[silver steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/shrek-shrek-meme-shrek-good-question-good-question-gif-7176451729184982026

[hard elbow]

And that's not being pessimistic that's just "there's hundreds of animals they could add, with all the money in the world they'd have to stop eventually"

So like. Talk about what would make an animal cool for PK and let the devs worry about the development budget, how many animals they're able to add, etc

[quick ore]

ok, fair

i must sleep now tho

[hard elbow]

Also fair

[hard elbow]

Arboreal, just to fuck with people

[silver steeple]

Lmfao

I could genuinely see either depending on the interpretation they decide on

[quick ore]

Arthropleura would be terrestrial so that the most goated amphibious carboniferous arthropod can have a more distinct terrarium from it (Hibbertopterus)

[hard elbow]

they should add megarachne but as the outdated giant spider version

but then give it sea scorpion behavior

[quick ore]

it's so funny how that episode even made people think that any giant spiders were around back then

big spiders are a surprisingly recent invention

you don't really see any beyond the late Cenozoic afaik

[silver steeple]

Yeah pretty sure that's the case

[quick ore]

one of the many animals that you don't expect to be as recent as they are

another good example; echidnas

[silver steeple]

Its funny to me that Platypus are like at least late cretaceous in origin by contrast

[quick ore]

yeah lol

but to be fair echidnas evolved from platypodes

[hard elbow]

Proof we live in the worst period in history

[sharp dock]

me want big bug

[quick ore]

no

[sharp dock]

big bug, good

[quick ore]

I like tarantula

[sharp dock]

fok trantola

trantola bad

[silver steeple]

The oldest known echidnas are only pliocene wth

[quick ore]

tarantula so cutes

[silver steeple]

I figured they'd have been at least miocene

[sharp dock]

well lack of fossil evidence doesnt mean they aint older

[silver steeple]

Sure

[sharp dock]

perhaps we suddenly find a late cretaceous echidna fossil and we go like waaaaaaat

🗿

[silver steeple]

And given how derived the pliocene echidna seems to be I expect they are much older

[hard elbow]

In all seriousness I do like tarantulas in spite of a general irrational aversion to Big Bugs

[silver steeple]

But we have a pretty ok miocene record in Aus so I would have expected to find them there too

[sharp dock]

PK should add one of those gajillion giant kangaroos

[quick ore]

yeah current theory is that echidnas evolved from platypodes that lived in seclusion on islands and then they swam back to the mainland

[hard elbow]

I fucking hate being a biology student who loves shit like atlas moths but I start involuntarily recoiling if they get too close to me

[sharp dock]

not to offend but that sounds stupid as fuck

[silver steeple]

What the fuck

[quick ore]

other animals around there evolved on islands and then populated mainland environments

like megapodes

[sharp dock]

legit sounds like early victorian era biology

[silver steeple]

Macropus sp. .....

[sharp dock]

actually I think that one has finally got a species name

the bigass one

[silver steeple]

Oh did it?

I hadn't heard about that if so

Oh is it Macropus titan?

[sharp dock]

not sure

[quick ore]

https://australian.museum/blog/amri-news/creatures-great-and-small-origins-of-monotremes-revealed/

[silver steeple]

Aha it is Macropus titan

Dunno how I never learned its name

[quick ore]

``Millions of years ago existed proto-New Guinea, a series of continental fragments, before it developed into a single giant island (the Bird’s Head’s Islands are the best documented). During this period, this area had extremely shallow seas and it seems feasible that a land mass was joined to Australia. About 50 million years ago, these land masses separated, and a sub sample of Australian fauna became isolated on an island in what would become New Guinea – imagine a platypus-type creature on a tropical island without many rivers but ever-wet forest. This creature may leave the river systems and forage on the land, which is what the echidna did.

We know from echidna embryonic development that the echidna evolved from an animal that had a bill like a platypus, and we think they evolved on that island. We have evidence form around two million years ago that there was a big faunal interchange between that island in proto-New Guinea and Australia – so at that time, we think that Australian species went to that island and the echidna came back into Australia.``

[silver steeple]

This fuckin thing

God having both of these would be so cool ngl

[hard elbow]

This and procopto together just because of how weirdly different they are

It's easy to forget how much of a fucking freak procopto is

[quick ore]

``“It was Kris [Professor Kristofer Helgen] who came up with the idea that the echidnas came from New Guinea and that came out of several meetings we had discussing all the possibilities and all of the options,” Flannery says. “And we finally just said it has to be New Guinea.

“So, our best guess is that they evolved on an island that eventually formed part of New Guinea,” Flannery says. Although there’s just one species of echidna spread right across Australia, New Guinea has several living species.

“And some time, maybe around 50 million years ago, one group of platypus-like ancestors gets isolated on this island off New Guinea and they are more terrestrial and these became the echidnas.

“The ancestors of the echidnas must have got separated on that island and being on a tropical island, a small island, there wasn’t a lot of river habitat for a platypus but there was lots of forever-wet forest and so they developed a more terrestrial way of living.”``

[quick ore]

this makes me feel sad that we only have one extant browsing macropod

at least we have the one though

[sharp dock]

oh that's actually pretty interesting

I legit thought you meant that echidnas evolved in some small island and went swimming to australia to populate it 😭

[quick ore]

I mean

they already do a lot of swimming so

not that unlikely

[sharp dock]

let me disagree

[quick ore]

https://tenor.com/view/echidna-beach-cute-animals-gif-13290983

[hard elbow]

Perhaps the sea urchins are a transitional form of echidna

[sharp dock]

wow echidna in a beach, such amazing proof that it is able to cross hundreds of miles of ocean

yeah that sounds more likely

finally some BELIEVABLE hypothesis

[hard elbow]

A temporary metamorphosis they undergo to cross the oceans and some remained permanently as urchins instead because they decided that there were kelp forests that needed decimation

[quick ore]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-31/echidna-found-swimming-in-pumicestone-passage/9821212

[sharp dock]

echidna go to sea -> turn into urchin -> cross sea -> reevolve into echidna once reaching land

[quick ore]

they swim

a lot

[sharp dock]

again

[quick ore]

sea urchins are sea hedgehogs

hence the name

duh

[sharp dock]

"swimming a lot" doesn't mean jackshit when it comes to crossing oceans

specially for such a small creature

[quick ore]

the waters aren't that crazy between new guinea and australia

they literally connect to the land sooner than tasmania does to the mainland

[silver steeple]

Speaking of Aus

[sharp dock]

idk why youd go such lengths when we already know new guinea and australia connect by land, which is a way more plausible scenario

[silver steeple]

Obdurodon would be such a cool mini

[sharp dock]

instead of "they swim a lot so they must have crossed" lol

even better

[quick ore]

have you not considered that they could have crossed via water when the land was closer

[sharp dock]

steropodon

[quick ore]

instead of waiting until it was truly connected

[sharp dock]

I don't see how that matters when it ended up connecting anyway

[quick ore]

it matters a lot

means they get there sooner

[silver steeple]

Oops all jaw

[sharp dock]

right, the mass sea echidna migration

[sharp dock]

don't care, funny

[quick ore]

did yall miss what i meant by the hedgehog thing

"sea urchin" literally means "sea hedgehog"

"urchin" is just an old word for hedgehog

[silver steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/platypus-gif-884970442119072595

This but 1m long

[sharp dock]

IDIOT FALL

the trip of SHAME

[quick ore]

what about 1mi long

[sharp dock]

what about that one uhhhhhhhhhhh

that aquatic thing that is a synapsid

or therapsid idk

[quick ore]

oh I know!

platypus

[silver steeple]

Its so funny that you say that actually

"The name given to O. tharalkooschild was first discussed in a 1990 paper by Mike Archer, an Australian mammalogist, detailing a creation story with an Ugly Duckling motif in the context of palaeontology.[15][4] A philosophical examination of historical sciences such as palaeontology, published in 2018, uses the tooth of this platypus as an example of the results obtainable by multiple methods of research into traces of evidence; the author refers to the species by the vernacular "platyzilla".[16]"

[silver steeple]

Tharalkooschild is the largest Obdurodon sp for reference

[silver steeple]

Castorocauda?

[sharp dock]

no wait I meant procynosuchus

funky

[silver steeple]

Huh

Interesting

Never heard of this fella

[quick ore]

Secodontosaurus exhibit animal

[silver steeple]

Anything to get more piscivores at this point

[amber field]

But it's not a true mammal ? , it's a cynodonts

[sharp dock]

And?

[outer moth]

Wait that's a real critter?

Not spec evo or anything?

[sharp dock]

The webbed feet are kinda speculative ig but yes it is a real animal

[amber field]

and not every Cynodont is a true mammal

[sharp dock]

And?

[shell sonnet]

We don't know whether or not the hint indicates it's a crown-mammal though I suspect it is, certainly more so than arboreal lizard is an actual squamata

[amber field]

And what ...

[amber field]

Didn't they say mammal explicitly ? , but I hope this true . I want to see Jurassic semi aquatic mammal

[sharp dock]

like I don't understand the comment, so what that it is not a true mammal?

"I'd like to see this animal"
"but it's not a true mammal"
okay? and?

iz cool critter i think

[shell sonnet]

Yes, but again, people were also thinking that lizard meant things like Longisquama or Coelurosauravus (mostly because the best known extinct lizards are aquatic)

[sharp dock]

huh what are you talking about now

[shell sonnet]

What's confusing? That when people were looking for arboreal "lizards" they were looking at things that were lizardlike but not a true lizards because people couldn't think of any famous true extinct lizards with arboreal lifestyle? That it's possible semi-aquatic mammal could possibly be say a Mammaliaforme but not part of Mammialia. Or that the most famous extinct lizards (the mosasaurs) are aquatic?

[sharp dock]

I mean maybe read the convo and you'll see that you are replying to things from a completely unrelated topic

[shell sonnet]

I'm replying to a comment that asked me a question? I fail to see the problem.

[sharp dock]

read further up lol

[amber field]

I think all these are meant to confuse us lol

[shell sonnet]

Of course they are, they're not suppose to be obvious, but keep us guessing to stay engaged

that's basic marketing

[amber field]

I mean there true mammals and there are mammals like animals, perhaps they're talking about one of this two . I agree , even there big Cynodonts the size of black bears ,https://youtu.be/xwdT_LpuvUo

Some of them can fit as normal animals in the game

[ancient ibex]

Cynognathus my beloved

[shell sonnet]

Be great for a Mesozoic pack focused on non-dinos

[amber field]

ohh, that's a big boy

[shell sonnet]

Oh, Kannemeyeria was a contemporary. Bonus

[ancient ibex]

Literally gotta talk about it and Lystrosaurus when teaching high school biogeo anyway

[amber field]

Perhaps after aquatic and aerial animals

[ancient ibex]

Every single textbook comes with a version of this

[flint sable]

ture...

ignoring the fact thats not a very good map of southern pangea

it gets the point across tho

[ancient ibex]

Yeah, the Gondwana mockup is more focused on the distribution of the modern continents than on paleogeography, which is not the point of the lesson

[flint sable]

ye

that also explains why they are more or less the same shapes as the modern continents too with small canals inbetween, whereas irl they would have been connected entirely

definitely works to get the point across though as said above

totally not me nitpicking high school material

[ancient ibex]

I mean, the details of paleogeography are not in the curriculum, but continental drift since the Triassic is; gotta start small and build up from there, education in any topic starts small and then you build up on that, polishing unprecise stuff used first to get an important point across

[shell sonnet]

Also the fact that Cynogathus has been found in Antarctica

They don't want the lines to overalp

[ancient ibex]

That image is also quite old

[shell sonnet]

So you've got things in the wrong location as well; Cynogathus is further south in Africa

[ancient ibex]

It varies depending on the textbook, I've seen stuff from romerograms being passed as phylo trees, to whales being outright stated to be hoofed mammals while explaining evolution

[ancient ibex]

Again

[shell sonnet]

Sure, but accepting that what you learned in high school is simplified to the point of being wrong in some cases is a hard thing for a lot of people.

[ancient ibex]

It is literally how everything is learned and not just in high school tho

Parallels and simplifications until there is a good grasp

[left spear]

Last year when that map came Up on my geology lesson half of the class was falling asleep

Which for the record were 6 people including me

No need to overcomplicate info for people they don't care about It on a basic course

Keep the detailed map for Uni

[ancient ibex]

I basically blew the minds out of my first students when, after the usual giraffe example to contrast Lamarckist and Darwinian models, I introduced them to okapies and sivatheres, and that was spring 2016

[tough marsh]

and Erythrosuchus

[shell sonnet]

Another good one

[tough marsh]

if i may

the fauna with procynosuchus is fairly intresting

[desert flame]

Small mammals to have in your vivarium: The Mesozoic flying squirrel would be fascinating.

[wild relic]

Leptictidium anyone?

[ancient ibex]

Leptictidium and Gigantoraptor feel likely to me ngl, by virtue of already being mascots of the in-game shop and the like

[desert flame]

I honestly thought it was an Oviraptor.
but,I agree that we want a Leptictidium.

[late swallow]

OH

that's what Tiny's is?

[ancient ibex]

Wasn't it "Giganto shops" or something like that?

Yeah Tiny is a Leptic I believe

[late swallow]

Giganto Gifts

[desert flame]

I thought the letters were taken from Giganotosaurus.
I was mistaken.

[reef relic]

A little late to this, but that threw me. I didn't realize Thylacines could get that large.

[ancient ibex]

They were more like coyote than wolf sized after all

To be precise, dingo sized is apt I believe

[amber field]

wait was that Leptictidium ?

[hollow furnace]

Tinys

the fast food module

[steep tulip]

Devs add placodus

Even if it wasn't semi aquatic we forcing it onto land

[late swallow]

weird lookin man

love it

[shell sonnet]

It's a good animal... competing with dozens of other good animals if large aquatics are coming

[sinful coyote]

i'm on the placodus train. perfectly sized and unique looking animal. you could easily make something akin to a sea lion enclosure and it'd fit right into most zoos without being hard to spot or cramped.

[median relic]

when swimming would this thing have undulated left and right or up and down?

[silver steeple]

Side to side

At least according to Wikipedia

More specifically, a whole body movement

Like say an eel or snake

[median relic]

should we get "unenlagiids" before the phylo debate is settled

[hollow furnace]

Sure

Doesn’t really matter that much for the game

[toxic oriole]

Only one so far is probably Austroraptor, yeah?

[silver steeple]

Unless you have to heavily bracket a creature's appearance, changing it's phylogenetic placement rarely has major effects on outward appearance

[ancient ibex]

Unenlagia itself may work as an alt

[toxic oriole]

And I say probably, since who knows if the study ends up becoming fact

that austroraptor was an unenlagiid or however the hell its pronounced or if i am thinking of something else

[steep tulip]

There are others that are part of the group, austroraptor is only the more famous one

[silver steeple]

It's a pretty sizeable group

[toxic oriole]

Who knows if that'll end up becoming reality

Only time will tell with Austroraptor

[shell sonnet]

Buitreraptor could work as a mini

Not sure if anything but that, Austro and Unenlagaia make much sense for additions to the game

[silver steeple]

There seems to be about 6 definitive Unenlagiines, and like 10+ more potential members

[shell sonnet]

Unenlagaia also has two species

[tidal flame]

Would love to see Zavacephale as a terrarium creature or a mini.

[median relic]

I feel like it could in this case though right

idk what really distinguishes a paravian as avialan

from what unenlagiids do we have sickle claws?

because the avialan recons of austroraptor I've seen do not include them

[steep tulip]

Pretty sure we have sickle claws from smaller relatives

Idk why austroraptor wouldn't have it

Not to mention sickle claws appeared a lot of time in the lineage (birds and closely related groups)

[ancient ibex]

That's due to people overblowing what "falls within Dromaeosauridae" and "falls within Avialae" implies for relatively well understood animals

[ancient ibex]

No

[ancient ibex]

The Deinonychosaur/Avialan split is one that gets troublesome because the early members are all quite samey in terms of bird characters; by pygostylians the bird line is apparent, but otherwise they are all raptor-like things

That boils down to one thing

Jeholornis being a great addition lol

[silver steeple]

Not really

[feral cedar]

These people are going to lose it when they see the toe claws of Ornitholestes and troodontids

[flint sable]

part of the reason why I draw the line of "bird" at pygostylia

everything after that is very clearly birdlike in nature

everything before its

messier

[ancient ibex]

S'all gradual, and everything in Pennaraptora would already feel like a bird, and everything in maniraptoriformes would be bird coded (and that'd be even more noticeable if moas and elephant birds were still around)

[slow shoal]

vivarium wishlist thingy

[hollow furnace]

nice list

[median relic]

forgot tianyulong is so scruffy lol

[slim flare]

Good list

[hollow furnace]

I'm not really partial to any particular heterodontosaur over another (though I'd be fine with Tianyulong) and tbh I don't care about Zambalambadingdong but otherwise I'd love to get all of those someday

[quick ore]

ain't Halszkaraptor still like
controversial?

[slow shoal]

the more related species we find the more it seems it does indeed have some semiaquatic adaptations

[quick ore]

also Eohippus/Propaleotherium shouldn't be a terrarium animal

[slow shoal]

tho its diet now seems to be moreso on the insectivore side

[hollow furnace]

yeah but who cares

[slow shoal]

eohippus is small enough

[quick ore]

I wanna see them roam around a little fenced in forest with Gastornic as cohabs

I feel like mammalian hoofstock would be weird to see in terrariums

[slow shoal]

well eohippus is weird

[quick ore]

like imagine an indoor gazelle exhibit

[slow shoal]

also ive seen mouse deer in aviary vivariums

[hollow furnace]

we keep eohippus-like animals in the equivalent to vivariums in real life

[quick ore]

mouse deer are mouse deer

[hollow furnace]

👆

[slow shoal]

eohippus is around mouse deer size

[quick ore]

wait it was smaller than Propaleotherium right

like Propaleo is large enough to be in exhibits right?

[shell sonnet]

I will say that Eohippus doesn't have a fossorial lifestyle and while not everything in the terrarium has to be one, most of what we've seen at least suggests they could live in burrows

[quick ore]

I don't think fossoriality is a prerequisite at all

like I think that's just a coincidence

[feral cedar]

one of those is not like the others

[hollow furnace]

A lot of those are not like the others lol

[slow shoal]

would be a very silly limiter

[hollow furnace]

Compsognathus

[slow shoal]

also yeah

[shell sonnet]

I can still imagine Compy sleeping in the terrarium burrows

[quick ore]

doesn't mean it made them

[feral cedar]

Titanoboa is way bigger than all the others

[hollow furnace]

Arthropleura is also much larger than all the others aside from Titanoboa

[slow shoal]

still fits in the new vivariums

[hollow furnace]

Part of the point of the vivariums to to be able to have animals with too complex locomotion/other biology that couldn't be represented in regular exhibits

[slow shoal]

in fact iirc someone said if you scale AZA snake vivarium reccomendations the PK vivariums fit for titanoboa

[hollow furnace]

Not just small animals

[hollow furnace]

yep

[feral cedar]

Huh

[hollow furnace]

Specifically the 12x8 vivarium

[feral cedar]

I guess that’s why they renamed them from mini-exhibits to vivariums

[quick ore]

also Titanoboa would be like, nearly impossible to make into a good looking exhibit animal

[slow shoal]

also titanoboa 90% of the time is gonna be submerged and still

[hollow furnace]

The 4x8 vivarium would be rather cruel lol

[quick ore]

I think the devs should avoid that headache

[feral cedar]

ngl though why is compy a vivarium animal

[quick ore]

small

[hollow furnace]

Because it is too small

[tawdry marlin]

90% of snakes barely moves in modern day zoos and as pets too lmao

[quick ore]

if it were an exhibit animal its hatchlings would be miniscule

[slow shoal]

if titanoboa gets in i hope they make him wrinkly like its closest relative (iirc its this)

elephant trunk snake

[feral cedar]

I heard somewhere that Titanoboa couldn’t exit the water

too heavy

[slow shoal]

its possible

large snakes like anacondas barely stray away from water as is

[feral cedar]

I mean it’s definitely too small if an adult is smaller than a BABY RAPTOR

[tawdry marlin]

me going to the zoo and just sees a Retic in the pool for about 10 minutes

[feral cedar]

But that’s something the devs are unnecessarily doing to themselves

[hollow furnace]

10 minutes? Lucky

[feral cedar]

a hypothetical “adult” compy is within the size ballpark of a small adult velo

[slim flare]

https://preview.redd.it/vagueposting-v0-d72z92wt28lb1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=a196be884191896aa408f6f2b9f44ed8449114ae

[hollow furnace]

I feel like you could come back 10 days later and that retiq would be in the same spot

[tawdry marlin]

Real

[slow shoal]

he is thriving and moisturized

[tawdry marlin]

Every so often i go to a zoo the snakes are just in the same spot everytime

[quick ore]

to be fair, the snakes aren't usually given much to do either

I feel like enrichment for reptiles is pretty underutilized

[tawdry marlin]

It depends on species too like King Cobras are active while some snakes just hide and be done with it

[hollow furnace]

good, if we give them too much intellectual stimulus the snakes will develop calculus and that'll be goodbye us

[silver steeple]

What enrichment would you even give a snake

Legit question

[slow shoal]

ig waterfall

[quick ore]

food puzzles can be used

[hollow furnace]

minecraft

[silver steeple]

Lmfao

[quick ore]

I have seen pythons use those

[sinful coyote]

i second minecraft

[silver steeple]

Interesting

Is there anything non-food related tho?

[hollow furnace]

legitimate question, how much enrichment does a food puzzle really provide to an animal that only eats like every two weeks

[quick ore]

I follow this tumblr user who owns some hognoses and they even know how to ask her to pet them

[tawdry marlin]

This is legit btw, i watched one of those behind the scenes zoo shows and the Taronga zoo is Aus uses this for some of their snakes

[silver steeple]

Also that

[quick ore]

based

[quick ore]

I mean this was a very small snake and it was tiny bits of food

[hollow furnace]

ok that's fair

[slow shoal]

ig for some digging snakes there are sand pits

[tawdry marlin]

https://youtu.be/UroBQsFecSQ

[quick ore]

yeah snakes are smarter than people give them credit for

this video blew my mind when I first saw it
https://www.tumblr.com/scoriarose/786796085653979136/scoria-sweetly-asking-to-be-pet-she-does-this-all?source=share

Scoria Rose

Scoria sweetly asking to be pet. She does this all the time to ask for affection. She originally learned this by watching and mimicking. Many snakes enjoy being pet, they just don't often know how how to tell their humans as the way they express love and affection naturally is different than us.

Snakes naturally show love and affection to each other (especially babies with their mothers) by slithering all over her, giving affection through touch. Many people do not recognize this affection as it isn't as easy to see as a human petting, or an animal licking- most only see an animal trying to get from one place to another. They don't realize an expression of affection is being made- but if you watch for intent you can sometimes tell they are trying to be affectionate not just go somewhere.

Scoria learning by watching and mimicking helps show affection in a way more easy for humans to understand and relate to. Many times she'll express this further by petting ME after she's been given all t...

▶ Play video

Tumblr · Jun 19, 2025, 3:33 PM

never thought I would ever see a snake asking to be pet

[coarse inlet]

except we've only found them in deserts

[slow shoal]

said desert also has frog and crocodile fossils

[coarse inlet]

but yeah NO WAY we'd ever get a non-vivarium snake

[coarse inlet]

terrestrial crocs but yeah the frog is interesting

[slow shoal]

iirc there were prolly some smaller river systems running through the desert

[coarse inlet]

there's a reason why no zoo sim ever to my knowledge has tried to do a free-moving snake, especially not a realistic one. Their movement is extremely complex and terrain-dependent

[slow shoal]

ye, thankfully the vivariums are large enough for titanoboa

[coarse inlet]

yep

the biggest size could easily house one

[quick ore]

yeah, like it wasn't a zoo sim but hearing about the nightmare that was coding Palaeophis as a playable for BOB made me realize just how unlikely it would be for us to ever get a free roaming snake in a zoo game

[hollow furnace]

Or not if Ningyuansaurus ends up being one

[median relic]

palaeophis

[toxic oriole]

Ah, right

That Sea Snake

[coarse inlet]

that's got most of the same issues

[plush nacelle]

Ya. This comparison is weird. Most other tiny ungulates are kept in outdoor exhibits and thats just because they throw them - duikers, muntjacs, klipspringer - alongside bigger species

Same for mouse deer, but it usually land together with tropical house fauna

Because it is convinient for zoo to exhibit them with birds

[silver steeple]

Not quite

Most issues for snakes are because they locomote over the ground

[plush nacelle]

Still would rather see Propalaeotherium, because it is big enough

[silver steeple]

Which would be minimized, or if they gave live birth, completely neutralized

[slow shoal]

the comparsion was because they are overlapping in size

also like

its really not that weird

[neat iris]

And the smallest vivarium is perfect for tetrapodophis (that tiny snake with even tinier legs)

[slow shoal]

also eohippus just has the most name recognition out of the tiny proto horses

[neat iris]

Either that one or eohippus is fine with me

Also, the biggest vivarium might be enough for Arthropleura

[slow shoal]

it def will

[silver steeple]

Not even the biggest tbh

Arthro is only like 2m long

[cosmic cosmos]

titanoboa is a boa, file snakes are not close to them at all. Opposite sides of the snake family tree

[slow shoal]

heard somethin about elephant trunk snakes and titanoboa before, maybe it was about aquatic habits instead of relation

[silver steeple]

They're thought to have similar ecologies yeah

[cosmic cosmos]

its probably that both are fully aquatic fish eaters

[silver steeple]

Except much larger obv lol

[silver steeple]

The 4x8 size is probably more than enough

[neat iris]

Beelzebufo could fit in all of them, except maybe the smallest(?)

[silver steeple]

Beelze is not that big lol

He'd be just fine in the 4x4

There are modern frogs larger than beelzebufo

[sharp dock]

the devil toad.... (read in Attenborough voice)

[plush nacelle]

Propalaeotherium + Gastornis mixed exhibit sounds so good

[silver steeple]

Something something Birds eating fruit horses

[median relic]

this is a world...
where birds

GREET 🤝

🐴 horses

[quick ore]

Honestly I wonder if irl Gastornis would be a poor candidate to cohab with Propaleotherium, not because it would attack the adults but imagine if it was on some Pelican shit and would try to swallow the babies whole

[silver steeple]

Given they're probably exclusively herbivores I doubt it

[sharp dock]

gastornis? not on my watch

go go diatryma

[silver steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/both-agree-yes-good-gif-4591420

[coarse inlet]

it'd be a massive waste not to make them alts if the separation holds up

[outer moth]

Surprised lepticidum isn’t here

[shell sonnet]

There's a lot of great options for terrariums out there and if you have to limit yourself to five per type, something good will be left inevitably.

[outer moth]

I just know Vivariums will eventually get a ton of animals as time goes on

I just hope they end up being more useful than PZ’s mini animals

[coarse inlet]

they 100% will

just the basic stuff we already know is SO much more advanced

[plush nacelle]

Is it more advanced than bats tho?

[coarse inlet]

IDK much about how the bats work, I didnt want to pay for that DLC

[shell sonnet]

I want them to be more modifiable; like for the arboreal let me chose what types of tree populate it so it can fit the time period or let me change the terrarium to grassland or desert or forest.

[coarse inlet]

but I'd assume so based on patreon info

[plush nacelle]

They are porlly very similar

Unless patreon revealed something crazy regarding animal loops

I dont think it is necessarily fair to compare stationary animals like burrowing cockroach to what simosuchus would need

PK is very unlikely to ever add such animals

So PZ system is still good for them. Main complain was always regarding 4x4 size since very few people would actually bother doing something with poison frog. I heard some people out there suggesting same system for cambrian fauna or tiny lizards, which is fair

It could even work for beelzebufo

[hollow furnace]

PZ bats had set loops, right?

[reef relic]

Yup

[plush nacelle]

In theory sloth is the most advanced, because it can chose loop

Not like it matters, because it is obviously sloth and doesnt do much

[reef relic]

I'd be pretty happy with any kind of loop animations, as long as they aren't static like the lizards & insects are in PZ.

[plush nacelle]

So hard to notice

I think even with inevitable rework in PZ2 these are going to stay static for obvious reason

[silver steeple]

I am curious as to just how small we can reasonably go

[plush nacelle]

Devs mentioned they would do 4x4 for smaller stuff

[silver steeple]

I can't imagine anything smaller than like the dung beetle we have rn

[shell sonnet]

How big is the dung beetle?

[plush nacelle]

So probably still something noticable

[silver steeple]

Yes but 16m^2 is fucking large lol

[shell sonnet]

It looks like only a few cm

[silver steeple]

If we assume they're based on the largest dung beetles rn, should be like 6-7cm

[desert flame]

Eohippus is a desirable vivarium mammal. A prehistoric ancestor of the horse would be perfect for PK.

[shell sonnet]

The golden toad would be a bit smaller than that

[silver steeple]

And they aren't amazing looking but I think that's for optimization over anything else

[shell sonnet]

And a lot of people say that's too small

[late swallow]

Is t Longisquama like 5cm long

[late swallow]

Bung Deetle

[silver steeple]

15-20

It's small but not that small lol

[plush nacelle]

Golden toad would need 1x1

There is good Prague exhibit with 4x4 dimension

Showing how small frogs would be in it

[shell sonnet]

Length or height because wiki is saying 5 cm

[silver steeple]

I'd love to see a 1x1 or 2x2 for really small stuff but idk if it would really make sense to get something that small

[silver steeple]

Are you looking at total or body length?

[late swallow]

Body

[silver steeple]

I'm talking total

Cause that's how PK stuff is measured

[shell sonnet]

Yeah, wiki says body

[plush nacelle]

It is 3x3 instead

[shell sonnet]

Have we actually found a tail

[plush nacelle]

Still big big

[late swallow]

Don't think so

[silver steeple]

I thought our Longisquama remains are like the whole body

[late swallow]

Front half

[shell sonnet]

Pose is outdated