Community Species Suggestions

[steep tulip]

I think juxia and paraceratherium might have a size difference

[silver steeple]

Best comparison is probably Para v Juxia

[hollow flower]

Thats some mammal level fucked up teeth

[silver steeple]

So that's what I'll test

[silver steeple]

Oh lmfao

[steep tulip]

Technically it would be possible
Not sure to the extent of falconeri and antiquus tho

But as you said, they have different proportions anyway

[ancient ibex]

I mean, saltwater crocs and Cuban crocs have eggs of the same size AFAIR

Juxia and Paraceratherium have differently sized babies AFAIK

[silver steeple]

Yeah idk if dinos are good comparison

[hollow flower]

Very obscure and a bit underrated aquatic pick, Tokarahia

And quite small

[plush nacelle]

Tbh falconeri would have great skin potential with different fur lenght

[silver steeple]

They indeed are

Concrete square is 1m for reference

It is a pretty minimal difference considering the vast difference in adult size

[plush nacelle]

For whales cetotherium would be very good

Tiny baleen whale

[silver steeple]

Leaves me very curious if this would really be applicable to falconeri

Especially considering falconeri's proportional differences to basically all the other Palaeoloxodon species

[quick ore]

imagining a Juxia being the foster mother of a Paraceratherium calf and still treating it as her baby even when it grows into an adult

[silver steeple]

Lmao

That'd be cute

[ancient ibex]

NGL, going by how baby giraffes and rhinos go, I'd expect newborn Paraceratherium to be larger

[silver steeple]

Probably tbh

Baby giraffes are like 1/3rd as large as the parents

In terms of dimensions at least

A half ton baby would be wild lol

[amber field]

Isn't the baby from Indricotherium baby from walking with beasts weighed a quarter of a ton ? , don't know if that accurate

[silver steeple]

A quarter of a ton is 500lbs

Versus 1000 being a half ton

Not comparable at all lol

[amber field]

Yeah, that too much, lol . But that make me wonder , even baby elephants can only reach 136 kg at max

[silver steeple]

I could see palaeoloxodon or paraceratherium babies reaching close to a quarter ton

Modern elephant babies already reach over half that

[amber field]

Yeah, one of them will be rank 01 as the biggest terrestrial babies ever

Excluding whales because they were cheating with water. but Damn blue whale babies can reach 3t

[late swallow]

Depends on the ton

[shell sonnet]

Juxia

[silver steeple]

Its pretty obvious that I'm only referring to imperial tons

[steep tulip]

Dromeosaurus most likely hunted differently and used its wings differently to move around
Once hunting and other similar behaviours are implemented, it would need different animations from utah which weighted like half a ton

[late swallow]

True, short tons are the most commonly converted to pounds

[shell sonnet]

I don't think that matters given that younger utahs are going to be similar to older dromeosaurus

[steep tulip]

I mean doubt babies gonna hunt much, otherwise they would need to account for every baby in the game as well

[shell sonnet]

Adolescents though

[plush nacelle]

The only thing I see being problematic is lack of wing feathers in Utah concept and these are part of rig for animals with them

Would be weird for dromeo to not have them

[shell sonnet]

1. that's just for one skin
2. that can change over time
3. why does it matter if Dromeo has it or not

[plush nacelle]

Only second point is valid

[steep tulip]

Would that be adolescent?

[plush nacelle]

Unless there will be skin with different rig of course

Which is going to be interesting case

[coarse inlet]

They’re just not similar enough to be alts imo

[silver steeple]

Is there a particular reason that dromaeo and deinon can't be alts of each other

[coarse inlet]

Also not very similar afawk

[plush nacelle]

I mean, if devs really wanted they could make dromeo-looking growth stage for deinon and then use it as dromeo itself

[hollow flower]

Leedsichthys is a bit of a classic aquatic even though its not had much attention as of recent

[left spear]

That will probably change soon when PoT releases it

[coarse inlet]

Leedsichthys is good for sure

[left spear]

(If it ever does holy fuck alderon its been so long since we got an aquatic)

[hollow flower]

Oh true

I completely forgot its coming to that game

Its also in ark, albeit not tameable unfortunately

[hollow flower]

Looking at this reconstruction I do not like its big blue eyes

[coarse inlet]

Some smaller Ray finned fish would also be nice though, like Xiphactinus and Protosphyraena

[silver steeple]

For the best cause that thing is fugly

[hollow flower]

Really just reminds me of this

While I was looking through the artists depictions I found this monstrosity

Quite stunningly its a couple kilometres from my house

[coarse inlet]

Oh I forgot about Heterostius! I love that Half-Life-2-enemy-ass fish

[shell sonnet]

I've seen plenty of Phylogenetic trees including Cau's and Napoli's that place Dromeo and Utah as incredibly close together. More so than say Dromeo and Deinonychus.

[silver steeple]

Phylogenetic closeness does not guarantee close physical resemblance

[sharp dock]

cheese table fish

[late swallow]

What

[hollow flower]

The flat dunkle

[sharp dock]

so much space to put cheese on

[late swallow]

Binomen?

[neat iris]

Sea pancake

[coarse inlet]

Even if the phylogenetic position was even close to being stable (and eudromaeosaur taxonomy is very unstable) these are two animals separated by more than 50 million years and in very different niches so any perceived closeness would almost certainly be an artifact of the fossil record’s incompleteness

[autumn plover]

^

[ancient ibex]

Utahraptor's coding as a rule is based on the old material rather than on the Utahraptor project material, Cau himself is certain that its position will shift once the new material is described and thus can be coded

[median relic]

could dimorphodon and caelestiventus be alts of each other?

[ancient ibex]

I'm also skeptical of the AMNH matrix, mostly because Deinonychus and Balaur nested within the Mongolian velociraptorines doesn't really strike me as a reliable result

[ancient ibex]

Dromeosaurus is halfway in time between Utahraptor and the present day, pretty much

[tame thorn]

Barely any Triassic species. Would be nice to see a few more. Some ideas I could see fitting in pk

• silesaurus
• desmatosuchus
• hererrasaurus
• kannemeyeria
• erythrosuchus

I am partial to Joanna Kobierska's reconstruction of silesaurus

[median relic]

(afaik) dimorphodon was more coastal, and caelestiventus lived in a more arid desert area

so you could really have some fun

[coarse inlet]

Dimorphodon did live along the coast but it was very much a terrestrial animal w no capablity of living in marine environments

the one thing getting in the way of being alts is that they'd probably be vivarium species

which don't seem to have any alts

[median relic]

I kinda forgot about that yeah

[median relic]

but ehh idk about that

they're like just big enough to be large flyers I think, Cael is the largest triassic pterosaur

[coarse inlet]

Dimorphodon is adapted for saltatorial and scansorial locomotion, which is best for vivariums

[short rover]

Isnt it also like cat sized

Or am I undersizing it in my head

[coarse inlet]

yeah

[median relic]

ok nvm dimorph is smaller than I thought

yep

[coarse inlet]

Caelestiventus is small too

[median relic]

isnt cael a bit bigger though

[coarse inlet]

maybe a bit but it's around the same

[median relic]

yeah

[coarse inlet]

though the only specimen isnt fully grown

[calm sedge]

Any more of these dinos to add some more for that area.

[ancient ibex]

We aren't sure about what's up with Mononykus for the game; Therizinosaurus and Prenocephale were in the post-release ideas teaser, and I personally find Saurolophus and Tarchia neat potential additions

[vivid field]

i’m going to cry if we don’t get mononykus

[shell sonnet]

I'd probably press for Opisthocoelicaudia, if only because having a sauropod would further add to the fact that Nemegt is a rather strange formation, and that one is as far as I can tell the most complete, if missing some key elements.

[late swallow]

I think both Saurolophus species would be cool

[ancient ibex]

That is IMO a given

Hell, can even throw Prosaurolophus as an alt for a Dinosaur Park saurolophine as well

Bary will be peak as well

[reef relic]

Post-release ideas teaser? Huh?

[late swallow]

More smol guys

[hollow furnace]

This:

Which is outdated now, this is the up-to-date one:

[reef relic]

Is this an official list or just based on cut creatures?

[hollow furnace]

Official, but outdated

[reef relic]

Pretty cool

[ancient ibex]

And the new one is unreadable lol

[hollow furnace]

yep

[ancient ibex]

Some stuff may be the same, some stuff may have changed

[shell sonnet]

That's not true, I can read part of it

[late swallow]

But people have Tried to pepe Sylvia it

[hollow furnace]

Third times the charm for figuring out how much Mau needs to blur it

[reef relic]

Pffft

[steep tulip]

I think this one wasn't even blurred and just picked a smaller res lol

[ancient ibex]

The other August 2024 teaser was this, but some stuff got reshuffled, U16 was expanded, but plenty of things are already in now

[shell sonnet]

Note that Diictodon is incorrect

[desert flame]

The animals in Update 16 were changed, but I hope they stay the same for Updates Update 18 and 19.
Honestly, I'm looking forward to the addition of Deinosuchus, Ambulocetus, Doedicurus, and Kelenken.

[late swallow]

Damn, this is like 80% copium

[desert flame]

Small amphibians like Beelzebufo and Diplocaulus will probably appear in the Vivarium at an early stage after EA, but personally I would like to see larger amphibians like Prionosuchus added in the future.

[late swallow]

Like, how do you get Allosaurus from that

[late swallow]

I'm down.

[ancient ibex]

We knew it was coming and it fits the letter size

[fresh ember]

^Mau already confirmed Allosaurus was planned flat-out by the time that was released.

[late swallow]

Okay, with external info yeah

But just with that image

[fresh ember]

Same goes with Stegosaurus and Baryonyx.

You'd be surprised just how dedicated the community is when it comes to deciphering.

[late swallow]

I would not

[fresh ember]

Got damn-near everything nailed down within 2 days tops.

[late swallow]

I saw the tinfoil hat thread for the new one lol

[hollow furnace]

Skill issue

Genuinely most are pretty easy to see if you understand how to look at them

[ancient ibex]

And I believe that one was at lower res than the original my bad

[magic grotto]

That, along with Koolasuchus, Plagiosternum, and Mastodonsaurus ❤️

[hollow furnace]

here's the almost original

[late swallow]

Okay I see it now

[magic grotto]

I'd also love to see some more Early Cretaceous animals added in at some point, with some that come to mind being

• Bajadasaurus
• Amargasaurus
• Minmi
• Nigersaurus
• Concavenator
• Ichthyovenator
• Falcarius
• Hylaeosaurus
• Incisivosaurus
• Tenontosaurus
• Sarcosuchus
• Dalianraptor (Vivarium)
• Hyphalosaurus (Vivarium)
• Jeholornis (Vivarium)
• Sinosauropteryx (Vivarium)

[slim flare]

Amargasaurus numero uno sauropodo!!

[steep tulip]

Can hylaeosaurus realistically even work as an alt of something else

As in
Do we have enough material to not make it a copy of the animal it would be an alt of

[ancient ibex]

It was used to coin the name, but that's pretty much it

[steep tulip]

Not too sad about it
Probably the reason why it got overshadowed pretty quickly

[late swallow]

Falcarius, Conc, Nigersaurus, and Sarcosuchus. Someone get this user a beverage

[steep tulip]

Polacanthus isn't that great either material wise, but it basically became the british ankylosaur

I remember this depiction being used quite a lot

[late swallow]

I think he's cute

[slim flare]

Stegosaurus regrowing its plates

[ancient ibex]

Ah, the time Bakker fixated on nodosaurs being stegosaurs...

[slim flare]

Wasn’t that widely popular, no?

[ancient ibex]

Not in 1990 I believe

Earlier in the day, to a degree

Thyreophora was erected to hold ceratopsians, ankylosaurs and stegosaurs after all

And Protoceratops first understood as ancestral to ceratopsids and ankylosaurids

[slim flare]

Oh shit yeah no

Didn’t know anyone held on that long

[magic grotto]

If I were to add 5 more animals to this list, what would you guys want?

[silver steeple]

Well if you're gonna add Conc, ya gotta do pelecanimimus

[magic grotto]

Ooo that's a good one

[ancient ibex]

Euro Barremian, other than Iggy and Bary, benefits from Hypsi, Conca, Pelecani and Pola

Oh, and Istiodactylus!

Cookiecutter vulture is cool

Borderline Eotyrannus as well, but that's pretty much smaller Yuty at the end of the day

[coarse inlet]

Eotyrannus has a pretty different build and vibe to Yuty I’d say

[ancient ibex]

Folkes disagreed on that I believe

[median relic]

concavenator

has so much aura

gotta have it eventually

[coarse inlet]

I mean I’m gonna go with the monograph

[ancient ibex]

https://www.thecodontia.com/blog/reotyrannus-revisiting-the-father-of-all-tyrants-eotyrannus-lengi

[silver steeple]

Idk man these look fairly different to me

[late swallow]

One of them is fat

[ancient ibex]

That's how theropods grow tho

[median relic]

whoaa wth didn't realize eotyrannus was a goblin

[ancient ibex]

They don't go isometrically but keep getting fatter as they get larger

[silver steeple]

Tbf Folke's Eoty is a little different to most older depictions

[magic grotto]

Repenomamus could also work as an early cretaceous vivarium animal, too 😄

[median relic]

ehh tbh if we get other non tyrannosaurid tyrannosauroids besides yuty, I probably wouldn't want eo, but guanlong is such an aesthetically pleasing animal (also dryptosaurus, and some megaraptorans if you count them)

[coarse inlet]

Honestly R. giganteus could be a non vivarium species

[median relic]

some of the tuffest theropods

[coarse inlet]

Yeah Eotyrannus wouldn’t be my highest priority there

[silver steeple]

That Conc is rough

Yikes

[median relic]

... yeah I figured

it's hard to find a good recon quick

I like Josch's

[coarse inlet]

Lanzas was still finding his stride with that one

[median relic]

(still though what's that bad about Mario's conc?)

[silver steeple]

Anyway

[steep tulip]

I liked that conca with the brush fin

[silver steeple]

Guanlong and Yuty are both good picks, they're almost certainly making it in anyway since they were part of the original 50 critters planned for EA

[steep tulip]

I love this one also

[silver steeple]

Which we know are still planned to come at some point in the future

[median relic]

oh also concavenator coexisted with pelecanimimus which would be cool in its own right

basal ornithomimosaur with the most teeth of any theropod afaik

[late swallow]

Is that Pelicanimimus

Oh yeah didn't see the first message there

[ancient ibex]

And those animals seem to be common across Europe, with Las Hoyas having Wealden taxa, or ornithomimosaur material being known from the Wealden or Germany at that time

[late swallow]

The reason none of the others have teeth, he stole them all

[median relic]

tbh if it weren't for the nippers I could see them being free roaming species that just walk around the park

[median relic]

the dontoraptor...

[silver steeple]

Ok and

[late swallow]

Ever been bit by a goose?

[silver steeple]

Those are derived tyrannosaurids, what is your point

[median relic]

almost but I know it hurts lol

doesn't take a long look to see why

[late swallow]

Yeah not pleasant, and the largest ornithimimosaurs would probably feel like Cassowary/Emu/Ostrich nips

But on crack

Pls don't hurt me, Deinocheirus

[shell sonnet]

I'm sorry are you ignoring the fact that the bulkiness, the skull and the the like change with each stage; just like how a Yutyrannus could develop over time

[median relic]

oh I mean definitely not the larger ornithomimids

[silver steeple]

I'm not ignoring anything

[median relic]

that's like letting an ostrich just run around, dangerous

[silver steeple]

You're bringing up stuff for no reason

[late swallow]

Trust me I know

[feral cedar]

To be fair it’s possible that the drastic ontogeny is a derived tyrannosaurid trait

[median relic]

pelecanimimus is surprisingly small though

[late swallow]

I want to feed it

[median relic]

peafowl appear about that size but these guys have teeth and an extra set of claws

[median relic]

true

[steep tulip]

It's a plus imo

[median relic]

also probably a piscivore, or more carnivorous leaning omnivore, which is cool

[feral cedar]

Pelecanimimus would probably be cool to let free roam the same way modern waterfowl get to free roam

[coarse inlet]

The fact that Yutyrannus may have gone through a Eotyrannus like growth stage doesn’t really mean anything and idk why people are arguing about it

[late swallow]

Just don't put your hands or anything food-shaped near it

[steep tulip]

Its a great size and it feels the kind of animal that goes well with a lot of stuff

[coarse inlet]

Their teeth are too scary

[late swallow]

Geese

[median relic]

just put up a lot of warning signs

[coarse inlet]

So tightly packed they made a single slicing edge

[late swallow]

It's just a goose with more teeth

[median relic]

and yeah I'm pretty sure peafowl have a kill count but some are allowed to roam

[coarse inlet]

Geese don’t have teeth

[silver steeple]

They have psuedo teeth

[late swallow]

That's what they want you to think

[silver steeple]

Which look shockingly similar to Pelecanimimus teeth actually

[coarse inlet]

Those look scary but aren’t for actually cutting things

[silver steeple]

They are

For cutting grass

[late swallow]

That's AI

[median relic]

I think pelly's are more like really really sharp tongs, I don't think they have as many teeth in the back of the jaw

[silver steeple]

No?

That is not AI lmao

I've seen that exact image for over 10 years now

Long before gen AI

[late swallow]

Fucked Ps got it

Ain't no shot their tongues look like that

[median relic]

yes dude

[steep tulip]

Penguins also have something like that

[fresh ember]

Penguins are arguably worse. Their mouths make them look like hellspawn.

[median relic]

yeah no I have seen em in person, they didn't use them on me thankfully

[median relic]

when you don't have teeth you gotta get creative

[steep tulip]

I think it's similar to the stuff sea turtles have in their throat?

[silver steeple]

Not all geese have psuedo teeth ftr

[median relic]

that's more like camels I think

[silver steeple]

But several do

[steep tulip]

To mainly keep stuff in

[late swallow]

Hyper fucked

[silver steeple]

Its not just someone's shitty photoshop lol

[median relic]

btw this is a camel skull lol

"friend" in the back, cartoon monster in the front

[late swallow]

Tbf I'm familiar with Branta canadensis [Canada goose]

[silver steeple]

Pretty sure even they have it to a degree

[late swallow]

Yeah Camelids are FUCKED

[silver steeple]

Just much less so

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/cheeetah-scary-nature-cartoon-gif-9030490

[median relic]

gif so nice you send it twice

[late swallow]

Bruh mobile be doing that to me

[median relic]

I get it lol

[late swallow]

I'm respecting geese more now

[steep tulip]

Also the soft palate thing
They really ain't pretty with an open mouth

[late swallow]

Got bit by one when I was like 4

[magic grotto]

Koolasuchus would also make for a really good really crustaceous animal, too

[median relic]

and we're not even talking about pelagornithids
these are true blood takers

[steep tulip]

I think these guys look cool more than freaky

[silver steeple]

Seagulls already have a nasty bite

[feral cedar]

that’s not a tyrannosaur

[fresh ember]

Turu the Terrible would be proud.

[silver steeple]

Now imagine one the size of a powered glider

[shell sonnet]

So?

[silver steeple]

Don't mind pineapple he just likes to argue for no reason

[late swallow]

You both kinda do tbh

[silver steeple]

Anyway we've gone far off topic

[median relic]

nightmare creature
actually CRAZY that they were that big (this size is still correct for sandersi, right??)

[late swallow]

Let me review the trello rq

[late swallow]

What piscivore are we hoping for in u16?

[silver steeple]

Aren't all the u16 critters minis?

[late swallow]

Yes

But they're all denoted with diets

[silver steeple]

Mk

Ye

[fresh ember]

I'm gunning for Didelphodon.

[silver steeple]

Didelph would be neat

[late swallow]

2 carni 1 insect 1 herbi 1 pisc

[silver steeple]

We're still supposed to get a mammal mini right?

[shell sonnet]

Yes

Semi-aquatic

[late swallow]

Fuzzy Triassic critter

What was the riddle proper

[shell sonnet]

two funky dinos, one fuzzy Triassic critter, one semi-aquatic mammal, and one arboreal lizard

[silver steeple]

Then it wouldn't be a true mammal

[plush nacelle]

Mini mammal is also supposed to be really obscure

[shell sonnet]

whatever lizard means

[silver steeple]

Cause true mammals don't show up til the jurassic

[late swallow]

A platypus?

perry the platypus?

[plush nacelle]

Would be weird for Mau to tease it at least twice as something we are never going to guess, but ultimately be something rather popular like didelphodon

[shell sonnet]

I mean Castorocauda lutrasimilis is possible but personally, I'm hoping for Indohyus major

[fresh ember]

TBH, if the original prediction did turn out to be initially true, then an armadillo is just a strange choice no matter how you slice it.

[plush nacelle]

This animal was definitely not peltephilus

Blur was always strong for this one

I gues mini mammal is going to look like this

[silver steeple]

Lol

[coarse inlet]

Camels can bite you to death easily

[late swallow]

Just looked into Ornithorhynchidae, and none have even a simple shot

[silver steeple]

Obviously it's Obdurodon

[median relic]

https://tenor.com/view/humpday-wednesday-camel-gif-3566504

[coarse inlet]

I really hope it’s Didelphodon it’s just a really good animal

[shell sonnet]

I hope it's Indohyus; we don't have any cenozoic minis confirmed

[late swallow]

OH FUCK YEAH OPOSSUM

[median relic]

can the mammal mini be this

[plush nacelle]

This why mini mammal, lizard and one of the funky dinos are going to be from cenzoic, trust

[late swallow]

Is that an Echidna-Kiwi?

[shell sonnet]

Knuckles before the glow-up

[late swallow]

Fun off-topic fact: Echidna is a genus of eels

[plush nacelle]

This animal is pretty big

And is definitely not semi aquatic

[median relic]

wait did they say it was semi-aquatic

[median relic]

murrayglossus hacketti

[shell sonnet]

yes

[median relic]

ohh

anyone else feel like people are too conservative with the crest of dsungaripterus?

is dsungar were added (which I want it because durophagous pterosaur) it should have alts with different levels of crest filling

[steep carbon]

The terrarium lizard is clearly Obama

[late swallow]

Probably no second Scansoriopterygid

[steep tulip]

Without the crest dsungaripterus looks like a pug

[late swallow]

[Derogatory]

[late swallow]

If mammal is hard and fast, C. lutrasimilis is off the table

[shell sonnet]

Sure... but then again, we're also not sure that lizard means something from squamata

[coarse inlet]

the mammal is the aquatic ape that humans descended from /j

[silver steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/truth-nuke-truth-true-soyjak-wojak-gif-14828627546768133163

[oak charm]

When nobody was looking, Tyrannotitan chubentensis stole 40 cakes, that's as many as 4 tens, and that's horrible.

[steep tulip]

Zavacephale for pk

https://tenor.com/view/suit-african-american-gif-11936269274519423651

[late swallow]

Wasn't me this time lol

[shell sonnet]

But it's a fake

[late swallow]

10/10 Wikipedia page

[steep tulip]

This will be my nanuqsaurus

[steep tulip]

Paper released few hours ago

[late swallow]

Oh damn

[outer crater]

Nah keep prenocephalae

[late swallow]

That's a hell of a specimen

[shell sonnet]

To be serious for a moment,
it would end up being a mini most likely if it was considered

[steep tulip]

Kinda better since at least it might have a chance to be included lol

[shell sonnet]

I will be frank, I would be disappointed if this ended up as a mini, if only because I can think of so many better minis. Then again, PK doesn't do recent finds like Frontier does, so.

[steep tulip]

I think it's a cute mini
There's apparently also another one from germany that might be a pachy

[shell sonnet]

If it is, that would be a big deal

We haven't found any outside NA or Asia

[steep tulip]

Stenopelix
Tho it seems more likely its a ceratopsian

Its without skull either way lol

[shell sonnet]

Yeah the lack skull hurts here, but still we don't really find Marginocephalians outside of NA and Asia. The other remains such are non-diagnostic besides Ajkaceratops and well...

[mint creek]

the nanuqsaurus of marginocephalia

brings a tear to my eye

[ancient ibex]

Paper also reaches the conclussion of dome growth being completed before body growth, as, well, observed

"Prenocephale had to be born with a dome because we have a domed animal larger than the type skull" was a poor reasoning by Evans et al.

[feral cedar]

I can't wait for pachycephalosaurs in PK

The ontogeny system is going to make them very fun

[silver steeple]

I wonder what Zava's dome could possibly imply for later, more popular, pachycephalosaurs........

[shell sonnet]

What exactly does this imply about say H. calathocercos and P. prenes; I don't have time to read the paper.

[coarse inlet]

Wait is it grouping Yinlong outside of Ceratopsia?

[ancient ibex]

Yup; interesting (and with my limited knowledge at that part of the tree, makes more sense than psittacosaurs as earlier diverging ceratopsians), but not the focus of the study; more ceratopsians would likely change the result

Pachycephalosaurus nested within Sphaerotholus makes all the sense as well, those have species across 10 million years; usually Alaskacephale is closer tho

Alaskacephale closer to Preno, and a Homalo+Goyo clade closer to Pachy than Preno and Stego is interesting

[coarse inlet]

So if this tree holds up then S. buchholtzae might be Pachycephalosaurus?

[coarse inlet]

Yeah

[shell sonnet]

I mean Chaoyangsaurid are from the Jurassic, it would kind of make sense they would be out of ceratopsian

[coarse inlet]

Stegoceras outside of Pachycephalosauridae proper too

[ancient ibex]

It isn't

[coarse inlet]

Yes it is?

[ancient ibex]

Node based

[coarse inlet]

Oh

I see

Makes more sense

[ancient ibex]

Pachycephalosauridae tends to be Stego+Preno+Pachy anyway

[feral cedar]

where is spinifer

[shell sonnet]

Maybe not enough data

[ancient ibex]

Sole mention in the paper; inside wyomingensis most likely

[coarse inlet]

What

[shell sonnet]

It's a joke

[shell sonnet]

It's also on the first figure

[ancient ibex]

Oh derp

[shell sonnet]

I am reading this right; it seems like most of their phylogentic trees have Yin split from the Pachys after Taco

[ancient ibex]

Mmm, yeah, pachycephalosaurian Chaoyangsaurs in plenty, and not a single one of those follows the topology used in the paper with Yinlong technically not being a marginocephalian

Then again, outgroups

But chaoyangsaurs being close to the ancestral marginocephalian condition is something that wouldn't surprise me

[silver steeple]

I wouldn't take non-phylogeny based papers to heart too much

[ancient ibex]

As well

But this one IS working on the phylogeny

Not just descriptive, but going down with character scoring

Still, every paper nowadays is expected to come with a phylo tree

while big approaches to phylogenies, without describing material, tend to be more through

[shell sonnet]

n looks the like closest to the topology they ended up using

I guess you could make an argument that because Yin is more basal, it'd be closer to the Pachys than the more derived Taco, which would be split off first depending on what statistical learning they were using and data they used it on, even if it technically is less accurate with regards to phylogeny; maybe if I have time I can go through the data

[ancient ibex]

Long branch attraction and plesiomorphic characters

However, consensus on ceratopsian phylogeny has psittacosaurs as the earliest diverging ceratopsians

Which is odd

[coarse inlet]

I mean a lack of good basal pachycephalosaur material has probably influenced how basal marginocephalians are scored right?

[tidal flame]

I need me a supersaurus or diplodocus

[slim flare]

We all do

Anyone have a breakdown of the 1.0 species we know or think because of the previous roadmap, compared to the current Trello slots?

3 Carnivores
7 Herbivores
2 Insectivores

C1 - Carnotaurus
C2 - Utahraptor
C3 - Kelenken
H1 - Megatherium
H2 - Eremotherium?
H3 - Doedicurus
H4 - Edmontonia
H5 - Other Edmontonia?
H6 - Denversaurus?
H7 - Sauropod??
I1, I2 - idk

The carnivores seem firmly set

I would hope one insectivore is a non-vivarium Mononykus, as it seems to have been cut from the vivariums next update, but it has no real alt potential.

[plush nacelle]

AD many times said eremotherium is not viable

[slim flare]

I know

I guess Maiasaura needs a shout

[plush nacelle]

And wouldnt be surprised, if kelenken was one of the animals we got wrong

[slim flare]

Why?

Dacentrurus/Miragaia would be awesome

[coarse inlet]

What makes you say that

[slim flare]

Which part?

[coarse inlet]

That Mononykus was cut

[slim flare]

I don’t think it fits any category Mau teased

[coarse inlet]

It’s definitely a weird dinosaur

And there’s 2 of those

And there’s an insectivore in the vivarium update

[slim flare]

Mau also said Ceratopsians aren’t overdone anymore, so also possible for U19

[sinful coyote]

i would think the insectivore would be the arboreal lizard

[coarse inlet]

Honestly one insectivore might be Megatherium since that was how it was listed in the pre-EA days

[plush nacelle]

Would be weird

[slim flare]

There ain’t no way

[plush nacelle]

Since before there were 6 slots

And 3 herbis

[slim flare]

They’re fucking massive

[coarse inlet]

Fair

[slim flare]

I would accept fruitivore because ground sloth were certainly eating a lot of fruit

And we have evidence they at least occasionally scavenged carcasses, probably ate insects too

[coarse inlet]

Obviously one of the insectivores is Thylacosmilus

[plush nacelle]

I guess these are 2 alts for something

[slim flare]

Yeah

Maybe a Paleozoic mf?

[coarse inlet]

Troodontid?

[slim flare]

Oh God I hope not

[coarse inlet]

Por Que

[slim flare]

Only because I prefer for the name game to be finished

[coarse inlet]

Ah

Fair lol

[slim flare]

Once the Troodon petition is accepted or rejected, things will settle down a bit.

[coarse inlet]

It’s not but what if it’s Teraterpeton and something else

[slim flare]

Thescelosaurus…

[plush nacelle]

I believe this is something popular due to being launch species

[coarse inlet]

PLEASE

[slim flare]

Due to EA launch containing “clones,” I do kinda wonder if one is just like Maiasaura and another Pentaceratops or similar

[coarse inlet]

Watch it be 2 new terrarium species

[plush nacelle]

Like game future depends on U19 performance

It has to be something relevant

That people will see during trailer and will want to get PK

[slim flare]

Honestly we’re probably sleeping on Europasaurus for U19. It’s already mentioned in game, is basically a Brachiosaurus clone and relates to Mau’s “Crowny’s origin story”.

[slim flare]

Deinonychus…

[plush nacelle]

My standard bet is one of new U19 herbis being therizinosaurus

[coarse inlet]

Thatd rule

[plush nacelle]

With crack small species alt as insectivore

[coarse inlet]

Erlikosaurus for the Barlowe shout out

[slim flare]

Toxodon or Macrauchenia would be great

[coarse inlet]

True

[slim flare]

Edmontonia needs at least its second species

[coarse inlet]

Yeah

[slim flare]

Denversaurus would of course be cool but it’s purely formation fodder, like Alcovosaurus.

[coarse inlet]

Too much mixed exhibits potential there

[median relic]

oh fr

I thought the scavenging thing was discredited

[coarse inlet]

So did I

[plush nacelle]

Mylodon scavenged I think?

[median relic]

would be so funny if they actually did this

https://tenor.com/view/walking-with-beasts-sabre-tooth-megatherium-smacking-smilodon-populator-gif-15401490451522452781

"aaghh, Sid! Now we gotta find more food!!"

[slim flare]

We have direct evidence it occurred at least once

[steep tulip]

If we get another ceratopsian instead of another stego
I will be completely normal about it mhm

[plush nacelle]

True

[steep tulip]

My theory is that macrauchenia is one of the u19 herbivores with xenorinotherium as an alt
And both megatherium and doedicurus have none

And edmontonia has 2 alts

[coarse inlet]

I hope we get a megatherium alt

[plush nacelle]

Thyreophoran diversity being underappreciated, but more different frills is always fine 🥀

[shell sonnet]

So is Giraffititan

[coarse inlet]

There are so many species

[steep tulip]

Who else is there other than eremo

[shell sonnet]

For what exactly

[plush nacelle]

There are many megatherium (or pseudomegatherium) species

[slim flare]

For Megatherium? Like nothing

[plush nacelle]

Devs could probably include that andean megatherium species

Or something

[slim flare]

?

[steep tulip]

Damn how many subgenera does this guy have

[slim flare]

The main species is the only one worth anything imo

[slim flare]

2

[plush nacelle]

Megatherium altiplanicum wouldnt be that bad

Smaller and boreal tag

[slim flare]

I really rather not

Megatherium can use all the alts it can get

[steep tulip]

I think I'm missing something
Are they all like the same animals or just different megatherium species

[slim flare]

Two have to be longish and shortish fur, and then longish can get a different patterning.

?

[shell sonnet]

In what sense

[plush nacelle]

Different species

[shell sonnet]

there's more than one megatherium species

[slim flare]

But only one that matters

[shell sonnet]

Then there's the subgenus Pseudomegatherium

with like 5 species

[steep tulip]

Ohh I see what you meant now lol

Nvm

[shell sonnet]

In general, I'm pro-alt species, so I wouldn't mind if americanum wasn't the only one

[steep tulip]

Never really thought about other megatherium species
Ig it could be possible that megatherium is actually occupying 2 other slots

[slim flare]

Megatherium americanum is the only one anyone ever talks about because it’s the first named species, the biggest and the only one to survive into the Late Pleistocene - Holocene.

[steep tulip]

And doedicurus is like the only solo one

[slim flare]

Doedicurus is fine as-is

[steep tulip]

Not sure
Not as confident on my macrauchenia prediction now lol

[slim flare]

Not sure what?

[steep tulip]

Not sure if that's the route they will necessarily go with
I think if one of the species had enough differences with the main one, they would be inclined to add it

[slim flare]

I really hope not

[shell sonnet]

I suppose you could make an argument for something like Panochthus

[slim flare]

I also really hope not

[steep tulip]

There's one species that is closest to doedicurus
Imo panocthus doesn't work for multiple reasons

[slim flare]

It is shaped very distinctly

[steep tulip]

Eulerotherocercus is the one

Its like a smaller doedicurus

[shell sonnet]

I don't think we have much of that one

[slim flare]

Again, I don’t see a reason to force these glupshitto alts

[shell sonnet]

Though, you're right. We should get Panocthus instead of Doedicurus.

[steep tulip]

Yeah
Its also from the miocene so idk how much I trust all the recons that use doedi as a base

[plush nacelle]

I have feelings that edmontonia alts are least likely unless all species have identical osteoderm composition, which would be important due to babes using same models

[slim flare]

Idk the actual distinctions tbh

[steep tulip]

They probably will all have identical osteoderm composition
I don't think we have any differences on the osteoderms numbers

[slim flare]

Wait how will Stygimoloch and Pachycephalosaurus have distinct babies?

[shell sonnet]

"The type species, Edmontonia longiceps, is distinguished from E. rugosidens in lacking sideways projecting osteoderms behind the eye sockets; having tooth rows that are less divergent; possessing a more narrow palate; having a sacrum that is wider than long and more robust; and in having shorter spikes at the sides. Also, an ossified cheek plate, known from E. rugosidens specimens, has not been found with Edmontonia longiceps"

[plush nacelle]

They prolly wont? Idk

[slim flare]

Stygimoloch needs the Dracorex spiked bab

I mean Tarbosaurus and Tyrannosaurus afaik do have distinctly shaped chicks

[steep tulip]

Or general position
If they had differences I imagine we wouldn't be able to know without a really great specimen of all 3

[shell sonnet]

I personally think we'll only get E. rugosidens because that's the one pretty much every reconstruction is based on

Hmmm

[slim flare]

Idk close enough

[shell sonnet]

The left one is supposed to be Denversaurus

[steep tulip]

Idk, we have like a lot of herbivore slots and realistically all 3 aren't all that different from eachother so

[slim flare]

I do really wish we got Dimetrodon U19

[shell sonnet]

I want Dimetrodon, I also kind of don't want it if it's going to be the only Paelozoic habitat animal

[slim flare]

I guess Kelenken will have a similar effect, but a species that everyone likes and really breaks the mould would be great.

[steep tulip]

The fact we probably won't get any permians

In ea

Maybe thrinaxodon ig

If that's the triassic animal

[slim flare]

PK’s current non-avian dinosaur and mammal dichotomy is a little weird imo, especially considering the pre-EA concept art and lists which were far more diverse.

[shell sonnet]

Of course, reality gets in the way of dreams

[slim flare]

No vivariums don’t count

[steep tulip]

For dinosaurs I would say its more or less the same

[slim flare]

What if the U19 insectivore is Meganeura…

[steep tulip]

What else did they have

[steep tulip]

Would be joyful

Who's the other then

[slim flare]

And that scorpion

One herbivore is Arthropleura

[steep tulip]

Pulmonoscorpius?
Wouldn't it be a carnivore

[slim flare]

Idk

Do even the largest scorpions today eat vertebrates?

[shell sonnet]

They can

[plush nacelle]

Less edmontonia alts means more space for amargasaurus or macrauchenia

I am in

[slim flare]

Diplodocus…

[steep tulip]

Refusing to give edmontonia any alts but add other 2 new herbivores instead would be kinda insane

[slim flare]

I hope if they do do one Edmontonia, its the Dinosaur Park species

But I’d prefer both

Denversaurus is again meh. Would make Hell Creek super awesome and diverse tho

[shell sonnet]

That's rugosidens, which is the good one

[median relic]

funny that it held it in its hands

[slim flare]

Why?

Megatherium has trackways that show it could walk for extended periods bipedally

It was the largest biped by far since the K-Pg

[shell sonnet]

hopefully with two alts

[slim flare]

Diplodocus probably needs at least an alt, yeah. Give me one well-preserved and one massive.

[shell sonnet]

Add Barosaurus and you've got the 5th placer of Morrison

[steep tulip]

I mean, that's the main reason as to get denversaurus
Thyreophorans have very little rep and I don't see why we couldn't get all 3

[slim flare]

Meh

[plush nacelle]

Plantigrade animals are always funny with being able to walk bipedally

[slim flare]

Yet PK really hasn’t done that before

[steep tulip]

Allosaurus kinda

[plush nacelle]

Imagine amphicyon doing so

[steep tulip]

Without kinda

Allosaurus gonna have 4 different alts

[slim flare]

They didn’t go out of there way to do that

That’s just all 4 Allosaurus species

[shell sonnet]

I mean they didn't have

[median relic]

I kinda forgot about that
I mean I know they do have bipedal capabilities but I always assume walking quadrupedally was way easier for them

[slim flare]

But they didn’t go out of their way

[steep tulip]

Why is it different for edmontonia

I don't get it

[shell sonnet]

Allo is better known and probably less work

(I'm not saying I agree)

[slim flare]

Denversaurus is a distinct genus

[shell sonnet]

We've got quite a few alts under different genera

[slim flare]

But none are out of the way just to fill a digsite

[steep tulip]

Yeah
But the differences aren't really all that many
Different skull shape, maybe a different gait and smaller spikes

[plush nacelle]

Osteoderms being present on babies from the start would probably pose challange for doing anything alt related with thyreophorans

We will see

[slim flare]

Apparently Stegosaurus is getting one

But they’re kinda similar when closely related

[shell sonnet]

I mean, Ugrunaaluk

[slim flare]

Eh

[steep tulip]

They got out of their way to add sinotherium and juxia

And the 2 paraceratherium species

[median relic]

man I hope stego looks good

[slim flare]

They placed it as E. sp. when it made made

[median relic]

not that I doubt it will

[slim flare]

Not for their digsites though

[median relic]

but I'm just itching for a good stego recon

since so many want to just slap sophie's proportions on an adult and call it a day

[steep tulip]

Wym

Isn't denversaurus from hell creek

[plush nacelle]

Talking about alts is weird, because it is clear devs can add them randomly

[slim flare]

My point is, Denversaurus is an entire new genus to add for the sole reason of expanding Hell Creek. Otherwise, no one gives a shit about it.

I am not aware of any new genus alt added purely to fill out a digsite.

[shell sonnet]

That's nitpicky

[ancient ibex]

TTBT, it falling within Edmontonia (or rugosidens as its own genus closer to Denver than to longiceps) is not farfetched

[slim flare]

That’s… not a nitpick. It’s an observational statement.

[steep tulip]

I mean, it's not just a name placed there
As you said it goes well with the other hell creek species

[ancient ibex]

It is basically the same lineage across the Judithian -> Edmontonian -> Lancian faunal stages after all

[slim flare]

Like if I could press a button and get Denversaurus, I would, I want a nice diverse Hell Creek, but I don’t think its as likely as many think.

[ancient ibex]

We do have 3 camarasaurs and 3 psittacosaurs tho

[shell sonnet]

I fail why the devs not having done it in the past, indicates they won't do it in future

[ancient ibex]

3 pachyrhinosaurs

[shell sonnet]

It's a good way to add animals

[slim flare]

But they’re within a genus

Anything within a genus is fair game

Except Ursus apparently

[ancient ibex]

That's arbitrary

The inner workings are the same

[slim flare]

They have to voice a genus

[shell sonnet]

Extra line or two isn't going to matter

[silver steeple]

By that logic we shouldn't have Charonosaurus either

Yet we do

Alt genera get bespoke lines, but its usually only 2 instead of the normal 4

[slim flare]

Charonosaurus isn’t from a digsite that needs filling out

[silver steeple]

So what

If anything being on its own is kinda a negative

Cause its got no friends to get the digsite bonus with

[coarse inlet]

(and none really worth including from that formation either)

[slim flare]

I do wish we got the third Parasaurolophus species… para deserved 4 skins

[silver steeple]

Fair actually

[shell sonnet]

Would given them more reason to add stuff from Kirkland like Penta

[silver steeple]

Para is easily the most iconic hadrosaur tbh

[late swallow]

🤨

[idle hearth]

I think it will be these for U19: C1 - Carnotaurus
C2 - Utahraptor
C3 - Kelenken
H1 - Megatherium
H2 - Edmontonia
H3 - Doedicurus
H4 - Macrauchenia
H5 - Maiasaura or Corythosaurus
H6 - Denversaurus
H7 - Diplodocus
I1, I2 - Mononykus & Therizinosaurus

[shell sonnet]

Why is Lambe on there

We have it already

[late swallow]

maybe magnicristatus?

[shell sonnet]

Rather just get Cory at that point

[idle hearth]

Sorry my bad

[silver steeple]

Given we know that alts of animals already in aren't happening in EA that doesn't make much sense

[late swallow]

was giving an option as to why lambeosaurus was on the list

[abstract compass]

i dont think any dig sites need to be filled out?

[silver steeple]

I'm aware

[shell sonnet]

It affects challenges by giving more animals to get bonuses with and to be honest, I think a lot of the ecosystem people would like to have as many as possible for one site

[silver steeple]

HC and Morrison could use 2-3 more tbh

Just because both have lots of good choices

Especially smaller lads

[shell sonnet]

Morrison could use 4

[abstract compass]

thats fair. but i sort of expect there to be dig sites that wont have more than 1-2 animals just purely of what they offer not that i can recall directly what dig sites ingame atm that only has 1-2 animals.

[quick ore]

wait why

[slim flare]

Morrison requires
Ceratosaurus
Diplodocus
Camptosaurus
Ornitholestes

Hell Creek:
Thescelosaurus
Anzu
Pachycephalosaurus (technically not confirmed)
Leptoceratops

[shell sonnet]

That's fine, though I think the animal has to be exceptional to have a digsite all its own like Carno or Amarga

[quick ore]

what's so hard about including Eremotherium versus any other sloth?

[slim flare]

Ornithomimus and Torosaurus would be cool

[quick ore]

or Mutta

[slim flare]

Nanotyrannus when it’s confirmed distinct is honestly also a requirement. It has extremely good remains, is well known and probably taxonomically distinct.

[hollow furnace]

as a megatherium alt

[slim flare]

It has less fingers than Megatherium

[quick ore]

ah

[slim flare]

Sloths love to lose fingers

[quick ore]

well I still hope we at least get more than 1 giant ground sloth

[slim flare]

Real Duonychus situation

[silver steeple]

Ornitho and Struthio as alts.......

[late swallow]

Kayenta, Cloverly, Wapiti, Horseshoe Canyon, Chinle, Kaiparowitz, Lujan, La Brea, Huincul, Kem Kem, Elrhaz, Wessex, Lourinha, Charmouth Mudstone, Yamal, Kozhamzhar, Ilek, Vilyuy, Yuliangze, Yixian, Shara Murun, Hsanda Gol, Dushihin, Jiufotang, Altmuhltal, Chitarwata, Mackunda, Eumeralla, Lowenstein, Trossingen

all have 1 or 2 animals currently

[shell sonnet]

Yeah, though I think most Australia animals can get a pass

[slim flare]

Struthio is more a Galli thing, no?

[shell sonnet]

Nope

[silver steeple]

Yeah I was about to say

I don't really think so

[shell sonnet]

Heck both could be an alt to Galli

[silver steeple]

NA ornithomimids are a bit of a mess tho

[shell sonnet]

Still S. altus and O. edmontoicus are my go tos

[slim flare]

What formation would Struthiomimus go in?

[quick ore]

apparently there was a deinocheirid living in late cretaceous NA iirc

[silver steeple]

Eh

[shell sonnet]

Dinosaur Park

[late swallow]

Sites with more than two animals ingame:

Djadochta
Nemegt
Hell Creek
Dinosaur Park
Prince Creek
Morrison
Tokod```

[shell sonnet]

(Not counting S. sedens because it's a mess)

[slim flare]

*Oldman Formation

[toxic oriole]

OldMan formation?

[slim flare]

Yeah

[toxic oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-old-man-deltarune-chapter-4-gerson-old-man-gerson-gif-9899296470632859392

[slim flare]

I don’t see a point to Struthiomimus tbh

It’d probably be alone

[silver steeple]

Why edmontoicus over velox?

[shell sonnet]

More complete

[slim flare]

It has a better skeleton tbf

[silver steeple]

Meh

[slim flare]

But velox is Lancian so HC time

I would prefer both Ornithomimus tbh

[coarse inlet]

wait what if the vivarium mammal is Kayentatherium

"mammal" w/e

[toxic oriole]

moment

[slim flare]

The other Ornithomimus is from Horseshoe Canyon Formation

[toxic oriole]

Dinosaur Provincial Park

[magic grotto]

This vivarium system has me thinking that aquariums might be possible way down the line 👀

[shell sonnet]

there's a lot of overlap in species between the two even if we haven't found it in Dinosaur Park specifically

[silver steeple]

Are they even outwardly different?

[toxic oriole]

Small ones may be possible as a start

No idea on the big ones

[slim flare]

Who cares?

[quick ore]

was it semi aquatic?

[silver steeple]

Wiki says DPP anyway so

[coarse inlet]

yes that's why I'm suggesting it

[shell sonnet]

I don't think that's semi-aquatic

[magic grotto]

If anyone here has played Megaquarium, aquariums in PK could draw some inspiration from how the tanks from that game could function

[hollow furnace]

it's been proposed to be

[silver steeple]

No point in alt if there isn't a difference outwardly

[late swallow]

some researches have proposed such

[coarse inlet]

that was the wrong image wtf

[slim flare]

Tell that to Camarasaurus

[late swallow]

i am being very normal

[shell sonnet]

I just checked Paelodb and they list it in DPP, but who knows

[slim flare]

Like there is a size distinction at the very least, but I thought you defended adding digsite species?

[silver steeple]

Yeah the alts that have been in since before the alts were made drastically different

[slim flare]

Plateosaurus?

[coarse inlet]

the skins can differentiate them

it's fine

[shell sonnet]

You could say Pachyrhino

have decent differences beyound size

[slim flare]

He just said before the alt changed

Pachyrhinosaurus was at launch

[silver steeple]

Literally "the most 11th hour addition" according to Mau, I don't think that really counts

It wasn't planned til the last month or two prior to the update

[slim flare]

Is anything?

[autumn plover]

For U19 did we get a new roadmap? I thought there were only 6 species planned for update 19?

Most predictions being Carnotaurus, Utahraptor, Diplodocus, Megatherium, Doedicurus, and Kelenken

[hollow furnace]

yes, a while ago

update 17 did too

it's now 8 species

[autumn plover]

Oh I thought it was just U17 that got increased

[hollow furnace]

nope, both at the same time

[silver steeple]

I'm curious what ya'lls top 5 most wanted (not necessarily most likely) vivarium critters for each type is

So 15 total

[slim flare]

Type as in air, land and water?

[silver steeple]

Yes, Arboreal, Terrestrial, and Amphibious

[short rover]

Who the hell said diplodocus?

It’s on the post ea ideas list I never saw anyone gues it for U20

I always heard that list plus kelenken

Or wait edmontonia

[slim flare]

Does recently extinct count?

[silver steeple]

Sure why not

[slim flare]

Idk, I got this

Aerial/Arboreal:
Meganeura
Jeholornis
Anurognathus
Pterodactylus
Ichthyornis

Terrestrial:
Arthropleura
Pulmonoscorpius
Sinosauropteryx

Amphibious:
Didelphodon

I guess a Heterodontosaur would count

Amphibious is pretty niche for that size range

I guess that Yixian mammal could be the third terrestrial, or Leptictidium

[silver steeple]

Mine would probably be:

• Arboreal
  Suminia
  Darwinius
  Meganeura (assuming it goes here, dunno why it wouldn't?)
  Drepanosaurus
  Avisaurus

• Terrestrial
  Diictodon
  Skybalonyx
  Heterodontosaurus
  Arthropluera
  Ceratogaulus

• Amphibious
  Titanoboa
  Didelphodon
  Castorocauda
  Beelzebufo
  Diplocaulus

[slim flare]

I kinda want to wait on Drepanosaurus until it’s thing is figured out

[toxic oriole]

I don't really see why even the big snakes would be in the vivariums
Unless theres a limitation I am not aware of

[silver steeple]

There are like a ridiculous amount of options for any of these categories lol

[silver steeple]

Animations for snakes are like ridiculously hard

[slim flare]

Avisaurus smh

Top 5? Really?

[silver steeple]

I like him

[slim flare]

Bro is a metatarsal or similar

[silver steeple]

Funny hawk guy

I like how you take issue with that and not Skybalonyx

[toxic oriole]

Not really sure, but can you really say the same thing about eels?

[slim flare]

I don’t even recognise it tbh

[silver steeple]

Just amusing

[silver steeple]

What do eels have to do with anything?

[toxic oriole]

The animations n such

[silver steeple]

Digging adapted drepanosaur from Chinle

[silver steeple]

Ok but there aren't any eels in the game so what is the point in comparison here?

[toxic oriole]

Thats the thing

[silver steeple]

Plus eels don't have the same issues

Being free swimmers

[slim flare]

Skybalonyx is poor and I definitely disagree with it as a top 5, but at least it’s got a bit more going on

[toxic oriole]

I take it those water snakes would be a similar case to the usual snakes?

Or whatever they are called

[silver steeple]

I just like skybalonyx as an animal

Do I think its likely? No not really

[slim flare]

*claw and poop

[toxic oriole]

what

[silver steeple]

But if the world were my oyster

[toxic oriole]

Wait actually that raises a question when I mention Eels

Are there any prehistoric ones, or just eel-like fish or something?

[silver steeple]

Ngl I do remember Skybalonyx being more than just a claw

So you got me there

Still a fun concept that can be played with in a vivarium setting

[slim flare]

It’s a cool claw tho

I’ll give you that

But I definitely think we have a quadrillion better choices with less guess work first

[toxic oriole]

Alright theres A eel thats said to be an ancestor, or at least thats just how its named
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anguillavus

And then theres one from the Early Eocene
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolcyrus

Just two marine eels so far, huh?

The question is, which of those eels would have the highest chance of getting into the game as a vivarium animal or an aquarium critter?

[silver steeple]

Yeah fs

I'm simply a fan of Drepanosaurs and the more we can get with as much variation as possible the better I say

[coarse inlet]

Arboreal

• Dimorphodon macronyx
• Drepanosaurus unguicaudatus
• Suminia getmanovi
• Avisaurus darwini
• Diplobune minor
  Terrestrial
• Heterodontosaurus tucki
• Araripesuchus tsangatsangana
• Venetoraptor gassenae
• Ceratogaulus hatcheri
• Madtsoia madagascarensis
  Semiaquatic
• Didelphodon vorax
• Mesosaurus tenuidens
• Presbyornis pervetus
• Arthropleura sp.
• Pleurosaurus goldfussi

[coarse inlet]

animating those things is very hard and they're not gonna move around much anyway

[flint sable]

Arboreal

Anurognathus (or any anurognathid, really)
Passenger Pigeon
Meganeura
Any Enanthiornithe
Pterodactylus (or basically any small enough jurassic pterosaur that isnt an anurognathid (see above)

Terrestrial
Arthropleura
Lystrosaurus
Nurulagus
Mekosuchus
Repenomamus

Semiaquatic
Didelphodon
Diplocalus
Titanoboa
Hibberopterus
idk

I genuinely could not think of another semiaquatic

[silver steeple]

Yeah the amphibious ones are surprisingly hard to come up with?

[coarse inlet]

really?

[slim flare]

For RE, passenger pigeon, Carolina parakeet, ivory-billed woodpecker, that giant gecko, Mekosuchus

[silver steeple]

Diplobune is a very interesting pick

I like it

[coarse inlet]

it's SO WEIRD

I went w the smaller species but the big one is super cool too

[toxic oriole]

Would Beelzebufo be in the aquatic vivarium or terrestrial vivarium?

[coarse inlet]

I feel like either would be a reasonable interpretation of its ecology

[slim flare]

Uh, good question actually

[silver steeple]

Amphibious imo

[coarse inlet]

I'd say it also depends how much water is in the different vivariums

[silver steeple]

Even if it's not spending a ton of time in the water it still had to keep its skin somewhat moist like any modern frog/toad

[flint sable]

mhm

[coarse inlet]

if there's a small pond or dish in the terrestrial one it could be feasible for a more terrestrial frog

[flint sable]

I imagine that if kept in a zoo it would probably be kept similar to how they keep pacman frogs

which iirc is usually in an albeit moist environment, but it usually lacks like

a pool large enough to swim in

not sure though, dont quote me on that

I would personally go with terrestrial

especially if it has like a little tiny pond in it as said above

[coarse inlet]

I mean it was in a dry area so maybe it'd be more likely to live in ponds than on land

[toxic oriole]

So remind me again, vivariums arent gonna have that naturalistic option at all, are they?
I heard Mau say something about it or something related not being possible

[flint sable]

actually thats a really good point

[flint sable]

a null variant without the walls

[coarse inlet]

like most desert frogs live in mud or oases dont they

[coarse inlet]

it'll be possible but they arent designing around it

[flint sable]

but idk if they will come with the old presets that the mini aviaries had or an equivalent

[hollow furnace]

Could in theory be kept in either really

[coarse inlet]

yeah

[flint sable]

probably will just have to use modular stuff to decorate manually

[quick ore]

including or not including species that are almost guaranteed to show up?

[flint sable]

really hope they add equivalents to the birdhouses there used to be tho, those were fire

[magic grotto]

Here are some vivarium animals that come to my mind!

Arboreal

• Coelurosauravus
• Dalianraptor
• Mirasaura

Terrestrial

• Drepanosaurus

Amphibious

• Plagiosternum
• Uruyiella
• Hyphalosaurus

[flint sable]

drepanosaurus as a terrestrial is a new one

havent seen that before

[silver steeple]

Looks like all of Beelzebufo's potential modern relatives live in fairly wet environments so idk how much that helps

[flint sable]

wasnt it like solidly a climbavore?

wtf why did I just say climbavore

[coarse inlet]

Dalianraptor is dubious

lmao

[flint sable]

I mean aboreal

[silver steeple]

But it's definitely a not a toad so it would need to be more wet than toads

[coarse inlet]

probably a chimera

[hollow furnace]

it eats the metaphysical concept of climb

[silver steeple]

Mmm yummy climb

[hollow furnace]

Like chainsaw man

[silver steeple]

True!

Anyway yes Drepanosaurs were almost entirely arboreal

Except for Skybalonyx

[flint sable]

does its widdle stomach get filled up every time something near it climbs a wall

[silver steeple]

Who opted to become mole

[quick ore]

@silver steeple did u see my question?

[toxic oriole]

Would some of those Rhynchocephalia be interesting enough to add into the game?
Yeah I know theres only one member left, that being of the Tuatara, but why not some extinct Rhynchocephalians, those little reptiles that resemble lizards but arent lizards

[flint sable]

yeah theres actually quite a few I think could work

for a fairly basic one, Clevosaurus is essentially as generic as you can get

triassic-jurassic in age

[silver steeple]

Yeah anything not explicitly confirmed is free game

[quick ore]

what is for terrariums?

just to be aware of that first

[coarse inlet]

I included one, Pleurosaurus

[silver steeple]

Like what makes something a vivarium animal?

[quick ore]

no like which terrarium animals are confirmed to be coming that havent been properly announced yet

[flint sable]

all of them that are confirmed have been properly announced iirc

that being Compsognathus, Yi, Simosuchus, and Tiktaalik

[quick ore]

oh I assumed that like, blurry list included some

[flint sable]

the really old roadmap?

U16 was entirely revamped after that roadmap was made

[silver steeple]

Probably but that doesn't count

Cause those are soft confirmed at best

[coarse inlet]

Simosuchus
Compsognathus
Tiktaalik
Yi
A semiaquatic mammal
2 weird dinosaurs
an arboreal lizardy thing
fuzzy triassic critter

[quick ore]

wait do we think a terrarium would be able to include Arthropleura AND Meganeura or would they need to be separated

[hollow furnace]

Need to be seperate

[flint sable]

also important to add, iirc one of these have been seen by the patreon people already?

I forgor

[hollow furnace]

Terrariums can only have one kind of animal

[coarse inlet]

yes

I wont say what it is, but it's neat

[coarse inlet]

shame but makes sense

especially to allow for a wide variety of species

[toxic oriole]

While we're at it with Temnospondyl amphibians, why not the flat porcupine?
Yeah I did it again

[flint sable]

oh speaking of, they posted this picture on the patreon page, looking exciting!

I hope to one day get the patreon, but even these free blurry images get me excited

[coarse inlet]

yes he is good

[flint sable]

(yes, I am that much of a PK stan that I look at the blurred patreon images)

[coarse inlet]

the full image is even more exciting, it shows some really neat features

[toxic oriole]

Carboniferous critter but VERY VERY late carboniferous or something

[flint sable]

I believe it

[hollow furnace]

But not enough to pay for it shame

jk

[flint sable]

one day

mark my words

I shall join PK patreon

[tough marsh]

platy is permian

[flint sable]

I really wanted to buy crowny plushy too but they were already sold out by the time I was gonna preorder mine lmao

[toxic oriole]

Well they have a carboniferous record, even if its, from what I heard someone say, the LATEST Carboniferous

[flint sable]

im happy about that tho because selling out super quick is a good sign

[coarse inlet]

its both

[toxic oriole]

Essentially its a Lystrosaurus case, a generally permian animal but has a Triassic record

[tough marsh]

its from Culter i checked which is boundary yeah

[flint sable]

or an ammonite case with paleocene ammonites

[coarse inlet]

I forgot about that shit how tf did that happen

[hollow furnace]

Arboreal: Darwinius, Suminia, Confuciusornis, Drepanosaurus, Meganeura Terrestrial: Sinosauropteryx, Leptictidium, Arthropleura, Heterodontosaurus, Dimetrodon (natalis/teutonis) Amphibious: Diplocaulus, Beelzebufo, Titanoboa, Mesosaurus, Didelphodon

[hollow furnace]

reworking

[toxic oriole]

Y'know I do wonder which vivarium Platyhystrix would fit into

[tough marsh]

i would love D minimus as a exibit

[hollow furnace]

A tiny dimetrodon as a vivarium with big dimetrodon as a full exhibit is a hill I will die upon

would be so damn cool

[hollow furnace]

frog

[coarse inlet]

yeah especially since teutonis is an alpine species

[flint sable]

short awnser: extinction debt, also known as survival without recovery; possibly reworking (but theres fairly decent evidence it wasnt, seeing as these ammonites has been found in multiple places around the globe in danian deposits and studies have shown no evidence of reworking)

long awnser: basically sometimes ecosystems have a delayed collapse after mass extinction events, resulting in certain species persisiting beyond the initial extinction but then dying out a few hundred thousand years later (at least in the ammonite's case), but it also occurs in modern times, as an example, a butterfly species could be entirely dependent on a single species of plant, and the plant is removed from the area entirely, the butterfly population is essentially screwed

[flint sable]

as for the specie specifically that most likely persisted, they were Hoploscaphites, Scaphites, and Baculites, with Hoploscaphites having the most evidence of the three

either way, all three died out at the latest roughly 300,000 years after the KPG

[flint sable]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoploscaphites

[flint sable]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_debt

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleocene_ammonites

[toxic oriole]

Alright now I wanna know what other carboniferous non-arthropod critters were around on land

[hollow furnace]

not much

lizard like stuff

[tough marsh]

ophiacodon

[flint sable]

in the later carboniferous there was a lot more

[coarse inlet]

petrolacosaurus, hylonomus, Acleistorhinids

[flint sable]

edaphosaurus, sphenacodonts, the earliest true reptiles like Hylonomus

[toxic oriole]

... Wait what

You had me on Edaphosaurus

[flint sable]

Perderpes may have been the earliest tetrapod capable of actually somewhat ok land movement and it was carboniferous

[tough marsh]

yeah edapho

[flint sable]

early carboniferous at that

[flint sable]

yeah edapho is actually predominantly carboniferous iirc

a lot of the early permian creatures had already evolved in the carboniferous

[flint sable]

ok its not

but it still has a decent carboniferous record

[coarse inlet]

dimetro is surprising in that it doesnt have a Carboniferous record

but I think other sphenacodonts do

[tough marsh]

Arthopluera makes it to the permian

[toxic oriole]

And all the stuff found are just critters that sorta resemble Dimetrodon in a sense but are not the same

[flint sable]

they do

[coarse inlet]

though this was post-rainforest collapse

[flint sable]

last 10 million or so years of the carboniferous they were around

[tough marsh]

have I sent Spheacodont size chart yet?

[coarse inlet]

not that I've seen

[tough marsh]

still a wip

[toxic oriole]

Well there is Spheacodon itself
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphenacodon
I was looking up Spheacodont and it gave me this guy

Is this an ancestor or something else?

[coarse inlet]

Secodontosaurus is so weird

[tough marsh]

basal member

[shell sonnet]

looks good

[coarse inlet]

mabye, I know there's some debate over internal systematics wrt Secodontosaurus and Sphenacodon

[tough marsh]

ty current trying to figure out how Angelensis works

[toxic oriole]

Are there ANY Mesozoic Mammals that WOULDNT be in a Vivarium?

[coarse inlet]

Repenomamus giganteus could work outside of one IMO

[toxic oriole]

Theres also Juramaia to consider, even then no one talks about that one

[coarse inlet]

Patagomaia too if we knew what it was

[toxic oriole]

Whoops

[coarse inlet]

its tiny